1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. Can we figured we'd start off today 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: talking about our favorite electricity monsters. Robert, what's your favorite 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: electricity monster? Oh? You know, my, my, my, just gut 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: instinct answers to go with Blanca from Street Fighter. You know, 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: he's the green skinned and I was, I was. I 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: looked into this a little bit. I was never sure 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: why he had green skin. Apparently some alleged backstory involving 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: chlorophyll um, but I don't know. It ends up with 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: he's like a beast creature, a beast man with green 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: skin and like bright orange hair, wearing board shorts, wearing 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: board shorts and just kind of doing this this, this 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: kind of hulking, uh pose bent over, and then he 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: can produce electricity. Basically has the powers since he's kind 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: of been kind of a you know, a mildum of 18 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: various Amazonian things. He has the powers of an electric eagle, 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: and so he can shock his opponents that way. That's 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: a good one. Uh. There there are a few really 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: good electricity movies. By really good, I mean really bad 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: from the nineteen eighties and nineties. Did you ever see 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: the Pulse? I don't think I ever did. I think 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: there was another horror movie called Pulse, which was about 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: something else. So this one was about. Uh, it's like 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: some family living in a house and like a regular 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: suburban neighborhood in California in the nineteen eighties, and an 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: evil burst of electricity goes throughout goes out through the mains. Uh. 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember if there's like an evil storm or 30 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: like an alien arrives or something. But for some reason, 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: there's this pulse of of killer electricity and it goes 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: into their house and it turns all the appliances against them, 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: so the TV starts trying to kill him and everything, 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: a real maximum over drive scenario. But it's like it's 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: sold as like the the malevolence is delivered to actually 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: through the electrical wires the wrong voltage or something. Yeah, 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: I guess. So, yeah, I was thinking about this, like, 38 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: what are some other examples of electric creatures or humanoids? 39 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: And I mean, obviously I thought of of of electric 40 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: Christopher Lambert from from Mortal Kombat another fighting game. Yeah, 41 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: but but so many, so often is the case you 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: see individuals with some sort of pyrotechnic mobility, you know. 43 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: Like one of a film that we've talked about before 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: has been the Toby Hooper film, in which Brad Dorriff 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: played a like a pyromaniac who could catch things on 46 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: fire with his brain. He's got like like pyro kinesis, 47 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: but he doesn't want it. He's not like a you know, 48 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: a villain out there like Piro and the X Men, 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: just throwing fireballs wherever he wants. It's more like every 50 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: he's kind of like the Hulk. He's like fire Hulk. 51 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: Every time he gets upset, he starts catching things on fire. 52 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: But he also like burns the heck out of himself too, 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: which wasn't a nice twist. And of course Brad Dorriff 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: is wonderful and in that film there are at least 55 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: portions of it where he's it's it's a rare film 56 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: or Brad Dorriff is the lead and he's sort of 57 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: playing a regular human in some of the scenes. So 58 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see. But but so often is the 59 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: case you see fire based powers in these characters and 60 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: creatures as opposed to electric based powers. And it's kind 61 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: of weird when you think about it, because, as we'll 62 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: discussing this episode, electricity is more tied in with biology 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: than fire. And even from the human perspective perspective, you 64 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: know who among us has not harnessed the power of 65 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: electricity by by walking across a carpeted floor in the 66 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: wintertime and then shocking somebody with a touch. You do 67 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: that on purpose? I have in the past done it 68 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: on purpose. Yes, yeah, but it's pretty not announce of 69 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: guilt on your face. Well, one of one of the 70 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: things I do like to do when it gets cold, 71 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: when the conditions are just right, have my son go 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: down a curly slide, build up static electricity and then 73 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: give me a high. I've on the way down, and 74 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: at times it has been stiff enough to like leave 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: a numbness in my hands, like when you feel it 76 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: in your wrist kind of in the bone. That's creepy, 77 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: real shocking power. I don't know if there's ever been 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: like an actually really scary electricity monster movie. The other 79 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: main one I was thinking of is one of my 80 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: favorite cheesy mid mid career West Craven movies, which is shocker. 81 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: I think that's from nineteen or so, and it's got 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: Mitch Poleggi or Poleggi, the guy who plays Skinner on 83 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: the X Files. Uh, he plays the villain. He's like 84 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: a serial killer who does some like evil black magic 85 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: ritual to turn himself into electricity after he gets killed 86 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: in the electric chair. That's right. I remember saying I 87 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: never saw it, but I remember seeing the boxes for it, 88 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: and he's in an electric chair on the You should 89 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: see it sometime. It's a laugh riot and he's Oh, 90 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: he's just like acting, I mean, beat galaxies beyond normal 91 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: levels of acting is uh. Would you say it's an 92 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: electric performance? I would say he is a live wire. 93 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, So I think you're right about the idea 94 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: that maybe electric monsters should be more biologically intuitive than 95 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: pyrokinetic or fire throwing monsters or even fire breathing dragons, 96 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: because you know, it shouldn't come as any surprise that 97 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: the use of electricity by living organisms predates the technological 98 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: uses predates you know, Tesla and medicine or even Franklin 99 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: and Galvani and all that, Like all kinds of animals 100 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: use electricity in various ways. Now they're the really noticeable 101 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: charismatic uses of electricity, like how sharks and rays have 102 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: electro sensory organs known as the ampullae of Lorenzini, which 103 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: they used to sense very faint electric currents transmitted through 104 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: water by potential prey animals. And then you've got the 105 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: electrogenic organisms that like generally aquatic organisms that emit strong 106 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: electric currents, maybe too stun prey or two deploys a 107 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: defensive weapon. And these would include things like electric fish, 108 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: electric catfish, and raise. Yeah. Yeah, the electric eel is 109 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: certainly the electric animal par excellence. Uh, though it's always 110 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: worth reminding everyone, and it's not really an eel. It 111 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: has more it's more related to a catfish. Oh, I 112 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: don't think I knew that. Well, I didn't know they 113 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: were electric catfish, but I didn't know the eel was one, right, Yeah, 114 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean you look at it, if you you know, 115 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: fortunate enough to see one in a tank somewhere or 116 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: in the wild, Uh, you know you're gonna notice that 117 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't really look like an eel. It's uh, it's 118 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: it's it's a very curious looking creature. Have you ever 119 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: seen a de fleshed eel skull. Oh, I don't know 120 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: that I have it is one of them. Is usually 121 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: don't leave them on when I go sushi. You should. 122 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: You should look up an eel skull. Sometimes it might 123 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: be different for different species, but at least some eel 124 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: skulls are like the most metal thing in nature. It's amazing. 125 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: But anyway, we today we wanted to to think about 126 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: electric organisms. But instead of focusing on these larger organisms 127 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: that use electricity, may be in a sensory capacity or 128 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: as a weapon of some sort, we wanted to go 129 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: down to zoom in with the microscope and to take 130 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: a look at the world of micro organisms that deal 131 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: in the currency of the Holy fire, the amber, the electricity. 132 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to start by saying by giving 133 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: a shout out that I got the idea to do 134 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: this episode after I read a really interesting article a 135 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago in the New York Times by 136 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: previous Stuff to blow your mind. Guest Carl Zimmer, Oh, yes, yeah, 137 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: that was a tremendous episode. It was great to chatting 138 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: with him. I'd love to have him back on the show. 139 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes we should see about that if we get him 140 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: back on the show, then he becomes a friend of 141 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: the show. That's the way it works two appearances. Two 142 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: appearances make you a friend of the show, so just 143 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: one is previous guest. I almost said friend of the show, 144 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: but I didn't want to presume. I think those are 145 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: the rules. Yes, uh so, of course electricity. You know, 146 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: it's generally thought of as the flow of electrons. You 147 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: might have other ways of defining it. You could maybe 148 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: define it other ways in terms of electrical potential, like 149 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: a positive or negative charge. But generally you've got current. 150 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: If you've got electrons flowing that, you think of that 151 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: as some form of electricity. And there are ways in 152 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: which the metabolism of our bodies could be considered electric. 153 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: For example, what is actually happening when we breathe. I 154 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: don't know if I've ever thought of it quite this 155 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: way before, but I was reading an article in New 156 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: Scientists from July which quotes the U c l A 157 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: microbiologists Kenneth Nielsen in characterizing the most basic biochemistry of 158 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: life as a flow of electrons. So basically, think about 159 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: it like this. You eat carbon based compounds, you take 160 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: in that chemical energy, and that's gonna be molecules like sugars, 161 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: and these molecules, these carbon based compounds like sugars, have 162 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: excess electrons, and then cells in the body break down 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: those compounds and they pass on the extra electrons through 164 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: a series of chemical reactions that power the body, and 165 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: part by making a dinascene triphosphate or a t P, 166 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: which is the chemical energy transport molecule that that captures 167 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: the energy obtained through the breakdown of food and then 168 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: uses it to power things that happen inside ourselves. I've 169 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: I've sometimes seen a TP characterized as an energy storage molecule, 170 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: but that's not quite right. That would be more like 171 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: fats or sugars or something. A TP is like it's 172 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: like a car for energy, you know, it carries it 173 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: from one place to another in the cell. And apparently 174 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: the flow of electrons is an indispensable part of making 175 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: that a TP that powers our cells. But eventually the 176 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: extra electrons, since they're flowing, they've got to go somewhere 177 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: at the end of this chain of chemical reactions. You 178 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: can't just keep building up extra electrons in the body 179 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: until you become a humanliding jar or you become the 180 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: guy from Shocker, and you just electrocute people by touching them. 181 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: So you have to pass on the electrons onto a 182 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: molecule that will accept them. And in our case, that 183 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: molecule is oxygen. You breathe in the oxygen, and that 184 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: oxygen we breathe in goes around to the body, to 185 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: the cells, and it accepts those extra electrons that are 186 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the waste product of our metabolism. Uh, and it bonds 187 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: with carbon molecules and then you breathe out this waste 188 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: product as CEO two. And to quote from this researcher 189 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: Kenneth Nielsen, as as quoted in in New Scientists, that's 190 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: the way we make all our energy, and it's the 191 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: same for every organism on this planet. Electrons must flow 192 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: in order for energy to be gained. This is why 193 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: when someone suffocates another person, they're dead within minutes. You 194 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: have stopped the supply of oxygen, so the electrons can 195 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: no longer flow. So choking somebody is kind of like 196 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: it's like putting a resistor in the electric circuit. That's interesting. 197 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean this is all getting down to the fact 198 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: that we're all essentially bioelectric organisms. Yeah, that's exactly right, 199 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: and it's not just us like this is basically the 200 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: rule for all kinds of life forms, from humans to 201 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: coconut crabs to lots of single celled organisms. Pretty much 202 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: every organism needs to create an electron flow by taking 203 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: in food with that excess electrons and then running that 204 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: through a series of chemical reactions to extract usable energy 205 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: for cells, and then dumping those electrons out into some 206 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: kind of electron accepting waste bucket like oxygen molecules. And 207 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: this is even true for bacteria, where for many species 208 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: oxygen must be present as this terminal receptor for the 209 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: electrons at the end of the metabolic line. But there 210 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: are some prokaryotic organisms, single celled organisms that can't or 211 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: don't use oxygen, and these are known as anaerobic bacteria, 212 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: and they live in places where oxygen doesn't reach or 213 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: where oxygen is very limited. And the examples of this 214 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: might be places like deep in the sediment along a river, 215 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: or buried in a sea bed, or even ever a 216 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: deep underground in oil wells. I mean, try to imagine 217 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: that that far underground, that like life is thriving in 218 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: some way. We've also talked about them thriving in some 219 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: human created sewer environments. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, all all 220 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: these environments, especially these environments that are cut off from 221 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: the surface by by mud or sediment or even by 222 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: vast expanses of dead rock. So if the electrons have 223 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: to flow for life to go on, how do these 224 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: anaerobic bacteria survive without oxygen molecules to accept the excess 225 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: electrons at the end of the metabolism and basically to 226 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: breathe out. How you know, where do the electrons go 227 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: when they're done with them? So here's where we get 228 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: to a bacterial discovery story. So in the mid nineteen eighties, 229 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: I think around nineteen seven, the American microbiologist Derek Lovely 230 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: was out pulling up samples of sediment from the Potomac River. 231 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: And one of these samples from the Potomac River, it 232 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: was around Washington, d C contained one of these weird 233 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: single celled organisms. It was a bacterium called geo bacter 234 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: Metalla reducens. And like other bacteria, this bacterium would be 235 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: again the electron flow of its metabolism by consuming organic 236 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: compounds that have excess electrons, for example, ethanol, which is alcohol. 237 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: So there's some ethanol in its environment, it can eat that, 238 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: but it would end its metabolism by passing the excess 239 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: electrons off into iron oxides, which are rust. So this 240 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: is a life form that can survive by eating grain 241 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: alcohol and breathing out rusty iron. Yeah. I've read and 242 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: lovely um some some of his papers that when they're 243 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: working within the lab they essentially just feeded vinegar. Yeah, 244 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: that's that's all it requires. Wow. So if you have 245 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: to breathe out into rusty iron, would you rather survive 246 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: by eating only grain alcohol or by eating only vinegar? Um? 247 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: I feel like vinegar from for me, vinegar would probably 248 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: be healthier for you. For me, that's my personal choice. 249 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: But I am I'm not a microbe. So just as 250 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: an interesting side note, in this process, the bacteria Karl 251 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: Zimmern the Sinness article. The bacteria help transform the regular 252 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: old iron oxides, the rust particles in their environment into 253 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: the naturally fair magnetic mineral known as magnetite. So that's like, 254 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: you know, the strong natural magnetic rock you might find 255 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: in sediments around the world, and these bacteria helped produce 256 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: that magnetite by by by pushing off these electrons into it, 257 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: which sort of magnetizes it. Now we've been speaking kind 258 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: of metaphorically by calling this bacterial process breathing, because it's 259 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: not breathing in the exact same way we do. Like, 260 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: the bacteria don't have respiratory systems with lungs and alveola 261 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and all that. We breathe by sucking in oxygen and 262 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: then transporting it around our bodies to the cells where 263 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: it needs to go, and then breathing out the molecular 264 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: waste products of our metabolism through the same gas exchange 265 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: system in the lungs. But the bacteria don't have lungs, 266 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: They don't suck rust particles into the body to allow 267 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: the electrons to attach to them. Uh, and so what's 268 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: going on there? Like according to Carl Zimmer's article, it 269 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: took Lovely and his colleague Dr. John Stoltz in their 270 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: labs years to figure out how this respiration process was 271 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: taking place. And what they discovered was that instead of 272 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: like sucking in the rust particles and breathing them out, 273 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: Geobacter exhaled by putting out electric wires. Yeah, this is amazing. 274 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: And of course, when we're saying wires we're talking about 275 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: micro filaments. Yeah, but they do, in a way function 276 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: like electric wires. I mean, they're they're conductive. They are long, 277 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: filamentous kind of conductive material that is there to transmit 278 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: a flow of electrons between potentials. So you've got to 279 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: build up of electrons as a waste product in the bacterium, 280 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: and then you've got a lower potential thing out there 281 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: that can accept them, like maybe a deposit of iron oxide, 282 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: and you pump the electrons out through this wire to 283 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: the iron oxide outside the cell. Yeah, and we're these 284 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: things are tiny too. We're talking about like three nanometers 285 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: in diameter. Yeah, extremely too. Though they can get pretty long. Yeah, 286 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: we can get pretty long in some cases. And then 287 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: we'll get into other species later. But there are species 288 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: with with with larger filaments. Yeah. Uh So, when you're 289 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: a geobacter and you since the presence of iron oxide 290 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: and your surroundings, basically what it seems like you do 291 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: is you sprout out these microscopic little filaments, each one 292 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: known as a pealis plural peely and bacterial peely are 293 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: fascinating in other respects too, because, for one thing, they 294 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: play a role in the bacterial process known as horizontal 295 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: gene transfer, and we've done a podcast on this before. 296 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: This is a really interesting phenomenon. Basically, bacteria, they don't 297 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: have sex in the way that like sexually reproducing eukaryotic 298 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: animals do. Write they reproduce a sexually, meaning they make 299 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: act copies of themselves in a process called binary fission. 300 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: They split off and create two daughter cells, not by 301 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: mating with other individuals and combining their DNA to create 302 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: an ad mixed offspring. But despite this, despite them not 303 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: having sexual reproduction, bacteria do engage in something kind of 304 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: like sex, and this is this process of horizontal gene 305 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: transfer where bacteria can meet up and share genetic material 306 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: between one another. And this doesn't always work out great 307 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: for us, because, for example, it is one of the 308 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: main methods by which bacteria acquire d NA for antibiotic resistance. 309 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: We just did an episode of our other podcast, Invention, 310 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: about the invention of antibiotics, and antibiotics are a you know, 311 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: a miraculous invention of the twentieth century, but one of 312 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 1: the big problems with them is that over time, the 313 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: diseases that we're fighting get better at overcoming these medicines. Yeah, 314 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: I think. I think the way we put it in 315 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: that episode is with with penicilla and and other antibiotics, 316 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: we're stealing a weapon from the you know, the eons 317 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: old war between a fungi and bacterium and uh, and 318 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: when we've stole the weapon, but the but the war 319 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: continues on and the the the the evolution of their 320 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: warfare continues, and in the way we use the fungal 321 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: weapon sort of accelerates the arms race, like provoked. It's 322 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: in a Cold war style, like provokes the other side 323 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: to uh make go with a with a build up, 324 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, an arms build up, when that seems to 325 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: be what's happening on the bacterial side. Now we stole 326 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: like a fungal catapult. But now we're quickly advancing into 327 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: the age of where a fungal tribute SHA would be 328 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: a more appropriate that's right. We have to find those 329 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: those fungal tributes or develop them ourselves. I hope we do. 330 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: But for the but for the bacteria to share their 331 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: own tribute shape plans. What one of the things they 332 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: do is this horizontal transfer process. Specifically this process known 333 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: as conjugation, where to bacteria meet up and they're like, 334 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: let's hook up, and they extend a peliss between the 335 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: donor bacterium and the recipient bacterium, and this little hair 336 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: like filament hooks them together so they can share. Plasmids, 337 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: which are little segments of DNA, and peely also enhance 338 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: the virulence of bacteria by helping them bind two cells 339 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: in the host body. And this is the case in 340 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: disease causing strains of bacteria like Streptococcus or an e. Coli. 341 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: The plist can kind of hook them onto the cells 342 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: lining your the inside of your throat or in your gut, 343 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: or wherever it is they're trying to infect. But in 344 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: the case of Geobacter, the researchers who worked with Geobacter 345 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: originally concluded that the peely we're being used for another 346 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: purpose entirely, and that purpose was the off routing of 347 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: electricity into electro receptive molecules in the environment. So to 348 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: picture this as a again this is going to be 349 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: a very crude metaphor, but imagine if you were to 350 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: breathe instead of by sucking oxygen into your lungs and 351 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: exhaling CEO two, by shooting electric wires out of your 352 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: mouths into the environment, which would then attach to the 353 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: toaster and the TV and pour waste electricity out of 354 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: your lungs into those appliances. Oh that's pretty good. That 355 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: sounds like a good electric alien creature for a future 356 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: film or a past film. I mean done. Yeah, I 357 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: mean I can imagine Dan Ackroyd playing a character that 358 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: does this. Uh, you know, back in the nineties or so. Oh, 359 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: you know they're one of those nineties like a kind 360 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: of grimy computer monster movies. What was that one that 361 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: Jamie Lee Curtis was in about like a killer computer 362 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: virus that like just puts gross wires everywhere. Oh yeah, 363 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: this was I think Donald Sutherland was in it. Yeah, 364 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: it's not a ship or something. It was really bad. 365 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: It was like a sort of it was kind of 366 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: a take on the thing, but with this this cybernetic 367 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: blend of like wires and flesh. Uh. Yeah, it's like 368 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: a computer virus that decides that Earth is that the 369 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: humans are a pathogen and the virus, I think pathogeny. 370 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: It's called virus. Yeah. And I should note as a 371 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: as a follow up to what I was just saying 372 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: about the bacterial peely, it's not fully settled whether the 373 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: geobacter actually use peely as their electric wires, or whether 374 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: they use peely exclusively. Karl Zimmer's article notes that the 375 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: Yale physicist and Nikkil S. Malvankar and colleagues believe that 376 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: instead the bacteria use dedicated wires made out of organic 377 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: compounds called cytochromes. But the fact that Geobacter does pump 378 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: electrons out through biological wires of some sort doesn't seem 379 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: to be in dispute. It's just there are different ideas 380 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: about to what extent they're using different structures as the wires. 381 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: All right, on that note, we're going to take a 382 00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll be right back. All right, we're back. 383 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: So we've been talking about the idea of electroactive bacteria, 384 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: bacteria that in some metaphorical since, breathe by releasing excess 385 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: electrons that are the the end product of their metabolism 386 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: into things in their environment, like little deposits of iron oxide. 387 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: And they do this by sticking these wires out of 388 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: their cells that connect to things, and they can pump 389 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: the electricity out through those wires. But it doesn't stop there, 390 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: because researchers have also discovered that in some cases, the 391 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: electric wires put out by metal reducing bacteria like Geobacter 392 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: would not just go out into iron oxide in the 393 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: environment or into other metals in the environment, but sometimes 394 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: these wires would go out and connect to other species 395 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: of electroactive bacteria. And so the same way that Geobacter 396 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: metaphorically breathes by putting out electron low, some species of 397 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: bacteria can metaphorically eat by taking in electron flow, and 398 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: this energy intake allows the bacteria to convert carbon dioxide 399 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: into methane, kind of like how plants use direct energy 400 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: from the sunlight to power the chemical reaction that turns 401 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide from the air into the sugars and the 402 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: carbon compounds that make up the bodies of plants. When 403 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure I've said in a million times on the show, 404 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: but one of my favorite crazy facts about plants is 405 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: they make their bodies from the air. They don't make 406 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: their bodies from you know, the dirt or something, and 407 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: that it's it's the carbon from the carbon dioxide in 408 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: the atmosphere that becomes the wood beings of air and 409 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: sun basically totally well and to be fair and like 410 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: water from the ground and other minerals and stuff, but 411 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: primarily yes, primarily of air and sun. So yeah, so 412 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: if these bacterial species that that do this, if they 413 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: pair up, they can form these like cross networks of 414 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: underground bacterial wires where one species feeds another with its 415 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: waist electricity. So I was reading a BBC article on 416 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: electroactive bacteria by an author named Jasmine Fox Skelly, and 417 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: this article mentioned that it was not long after loveliest 418 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: discovery of the electrical properties of geobacter that the u 419 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: C l A microbiologist Kenneth Nielsen, who was quoted in 420 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: that article earlier describing all of you know, the respiration 421 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: of life is the flow of electrons before Nielsen found 422 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: another electronic screening bacterium, this one in the Oneida Lake 423 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: of New York State and published his findings in the 424 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: journal Science. And this was a very similar story, except 425 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: the bacterium here was not geobacter. It was shoe and 426 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Ella on identis uh and and much the same way 427 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: that the geobacter metaphorically breathes iron oxide, this bacterium breathe 428 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: this oxygen when it's available, but when it's not, it 429 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: breathes manganese oxide, pumping electrons out into the external deposits 430 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: of the compound, though it can also pump electrons out 431 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: into other metals like iron but um. Unlike Geobacter, which 432 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: uses some form of wire to conduct electricity, quote, she 433 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: and Ella appears to shuttle electrons out of their cells 434 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: using transport molecules called flavians and stepping stone proteins embedded 435 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: in the outer membrane called cytochromes. So there we've got 436 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: this cytochromes being involved again. So we're starting to build 437 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: up a picture that there are many different ways for 438 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: bacteria to kind of breathe electrically or be electro active 439 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: in one way or another. And these tend to be 440 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: bacteria that that don't have access to air, or don't 441 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: or only do this win they don't have access to air, 442 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: and so so Carl Zimmer's article also discusses the work 443 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: of Danish microbiologist Lars Peter Nielsen, And this is different 444 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: spelling of Nils, different Nielsen. This is a two Nielsen night. 445 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: But it's once an in e A L and one's 446 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: an in I E L. Personally, no offense to the 447 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: other guy, but I'm more of an inn I E 448 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: L kind of guy. Yeah, it stands out a little 449 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: bit more so. This guy, Lars Peter Nielsen, discovered an 450 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: electrical bacterial ecosystem within the mud from the Bay of 451 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: our Hoots. I hope I'm saying that right. It's a 452 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: coastal area on the western side of the main peninsula 453 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: of denmarks are roos A A R H U s. 454 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: So basically within a core of mud sample here, you'd 455 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: have bacteria lower down down in the mud with anaerobic metabolism. Again, 456 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: that means oxygen free. They don't need oxygen to live, 457 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: and they would produce hydrogen sulfide. Is a waste product 458 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: of their way of life. And hydrogen sulfide we've talked about, 459 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure plenty of times on the show before. It's 460 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: a it's a poisonous gas that smells like rotten eggs. 461 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: It's just like it's bad stuff. It smells like death. 462 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: You'd commonly find it in places where biological material is 463 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: being decomposed in the absence of oxygen, so again anaerobic decomposition. 464 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: Like you will smell this stuff wafting up out of 465 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: swamps and out of sewers and stuff like that. It 466 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: was one of the bye products that people had to 467 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: protect their faces from when they went down to fight 468 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: the soap dragon. Yeah. The fact, I don't know why 469 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: I said protect their faces. I mean like wear gas masks, right, 470 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: I don't mean like it's going to hurt their faces 471 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: out at them and try to attach. It's like the 472 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: face hugger. Uh no, no, like it's like you don't 473 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: want to breathe it um now. Of course, in order 474 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: for you to smell hydrogen sulfide, in order to smell 475 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: this nasty bacterial byproduct in a mar sura sewer, the 476 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: gas has to bubble up to the surface and waft 477 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: out right. But Nielsen noticed that it wasn't doing that 478 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: in this mud. Something was consuming this poisonous waste product 479 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: before it buoyed up to the surface of the mud 480 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: and escaped. But as Carl Zimmer writes in this article, 481 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: if other bacteria below we're breaking down this hydrogen sulfide 482 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: without oxygen to aid in the metabolic process, again, you 483 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: would have an unacceptable build up of electrons, and so 484 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: this excess electricity would have to go somewhere. And what 485 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: they found is exactly what you might guess. The bacteria 486 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: were extending biological electric wires built out of thousands of 487 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: cells surrounded by a conductive protein sheath. Uh kind of 488 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: like the you know, the sheath you might see on 489 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: a copper wire to protect it, except it's the other 490 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: way around. In this case. The sheath is what's conducting 491 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: the electricity. So it's kind of like if you had 492 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: like plastic surrounded by copper, I guess, which would be 493 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: a bad design for a wire, but it works in 494 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: this case. And these wires are known as cable bacteria. 495 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: The cable bacteria allow the waste electricity to flow out 496 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: to the surface, and once the electrons reach the surface, 497 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: there you've got surface bacteria which have access to oxygen, 498 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: unlike the bacteria below because they're on the surface of course. 499 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: So these bacteria use the electricity to cause a chemical 500 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: reaction between oxygen and hydrogen, the waste product of which 501 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: is water. And to quote from Karl's article quote and 502 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: cable bacteria grow to astonishing densities. One square inch of 503 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: sediment may contain as much as eight miles of cables. 504 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: Dr Nilsen eventually learned to spot cable bacteria with the 505 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: naked eye. Their wires look like spider silk reflecting the sun. Beautiful, 506 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: and you can look at pictures of this. Actually, I agree, 507 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: they do look kind of like spider silk. They're kind of, uh, 508 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: these glistening, almost invisible filaments that can kind of catch 509 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: the light in certain ways. Very beautiful. But one cool 510 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: thing that I guess we have to consider is they're 511 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: discovering that these electroactive bacteria are found all over the place. 512 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: They're abundant in ecosystems throughout the world. And given how 513 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: abundant these electroactive bacteria are, it's not inconceivable that they 514 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: play a major role in regulating various forms of geochemistry, 515 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: like maybe regulating what kinds of minerals you would find 516 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: in the top soil producing magnetite, maybe regulating the chemistry 517 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: of the atmosphere, or regulating the chemistry of the oceans. Right, So, 518 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: I mean other they come here is that this is 519 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: not just some rare, obscure thing that you encountering only 520 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: like you know, some sort of bizarre extreme environment. But 521 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: they're they're they're found all over and could have a 522 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: very important role. Now, primarily the examples we've been looking 523 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: at so far have been bacteria that sort of pump 524 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: out electricity in order to metaphorically breathe. You know, the 525 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: electricity is this waste product, so the extra electrons have 526 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: to be disposed of and to something that will accept them. 527 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: But we already mentioned that it does go both ways. 528 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: Like also mentioned in h Fox Skellies article for the 529 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: BBC is the idea that um that scientists have been 530 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: finding more bacteria that simply are able to consume pure electricity, 531 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: that consume electrons when they need to, And she gives 532 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: the example of a University of Cincinnati microbiologists named Innett 533 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: Row who's found several bacterial species that live on the 534 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: ocean floor and apparently they can live off of pure 535 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: electrical current if they need to. It's not that they 536 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: naturally make make their lives this way, but it seems 537 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: like this is something that they are able to to 538 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: sustain themselves without dying for a period of time. So 539 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: if I understand correctly, this is different than an organism 540 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: that just like thrives on pure electricity with no food. 541 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: But there there is even evidence of like you know, 542 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: we were talking earlier about these relationships between electroactive organisms 543 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: and one bacterium having electric city is a waste product 544 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: and then routing it to a bacterium that will accept 545 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: it as a as an incoming energy product. And there's 546 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: even evidence of like cross species or cross organism type 547 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: electrical grids spanning different kingdoms of life, and this example 548 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: being the electrical cooperation between bacteria and archaea in deep 549 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: ocean floor habitats that are rich with methane uh to 550 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: to quote from Fox Skellies article, the archaea feed on 551 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: electrons from methane, oxidizing the gas to generate carbonate. They 552 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: then pass the electrons onto their partner bacteria along the 553 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: nano wires, which act like power cables. Finally, the bacteria 554 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: deposit the electrons onto sulfate, producing energy that the cell 555 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: can use in the process. And so we don't know 556 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: how far back these types of relationships go, but it's 557 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: easy to imagine these these types of cooperation evolving billions 558 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: of years ago, especially before Earth's atmosphere underwent the gray 559 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: poisoning when all the oxygen showed up. All right, we're 560 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break. When we come back. We're 561 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: going to get to an area that a lot of 562 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: you are probably thinking about like, you know, if we 563 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: have we're talking about the organisms that they utilize electricity, 564 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: they're producing these these nano filaments. Uh, then there's got 565 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: to be a way that we could harness that power 566 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: ourselves put them to work. Yeah, that's exactly what we're 567 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: going to discuss when we come back. Thank alright, we're back. 568 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: So if you're listening to this this podcast via some 569 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: sort of an electronic device, I mean, we electronics are 570 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: are kind of our thing right as a species, and 571 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: so it stands to reason that as we discover these 572 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: these these bacteria that are they're using electricity, that are 573 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: that are creating these little filaments that we eat envisioned 574 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: ways to again harness their power. I don't know about you. 575 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: I listen to my podcast by plugging directly into bacterial 576 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: ats like I've got a I've got a big stroma 577 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: light in my house, and I just jack in, Well, 578 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: that's not that's not as as as crazy distant from 579 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: the reality. The possible realities we're going to discuss is 580 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: one might think it's it's a little crazy, but but yeah, 581 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: when you when you think about these actual electroactive bacteria 582 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: that there do seem to be some potentials just one example, Like, 583 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: there are all kinds of ideas where people have talked 584 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: about using electroactive bacteria as as a potential electrical sources. 585 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: But one of the many ideas I came across was 586 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: to use the electrical potential of geobacter for small scale 587 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: energy purposes in Peru. So I was reading a few 588 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: articles from about how researchers at the University of Engineering 589 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: and Technology in Peru were pioneering a method to draw 590 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: usable electricity directly from the soil, specifically using the outflow 591 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: of electrons from the respiration of geobacters. Now this is 592 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: meaningful in in the context of what they were doing 593 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: in Peru, because some villages and dwellings in the Peruvian 594 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: rainforest don't have connections to the electrical grid mini don't 595 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: at the time they were doing this project. The project 596 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: leaders claimed that it was like fort of villages in 597 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: the rainforest did not have connections, and those that do 598 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: have connections are at risk to lose power entirely when 599 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: lines are knocked out by floods, as happened in March. 600 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: And so this means of course, after it gets dark, 601 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: people can't read, kids can't study for school unless they 602 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: use like kerosene lamps, which are apparently unhealthy and are 603 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: hard on the eyes. I can imagine that. So this method, 604 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: developed by ut Ec in partnership with a company called 605 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: FCB Mayo, works to charge batteries and power LED lamps 606 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: with a special bioelectric box. And the box has a 607 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: plant on top with roots planted in the soil, and 608 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: then electrodes plunged into this grid of little so oil 609 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: buckets that are full of geobactors, and the metabolic interaction 610 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: between the plant and the geobactors generates excess electric charge 611 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: in the soil, and that electric charge gets routed up 612 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: through the electrodes that are planted in the soil, whisks 613 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: those free electrons away to charge a battery, which in 614 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: turn powers the LED lamp. Now we're not sure how 615 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: scalable this individual technology is, but it shows the general 616 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: principle that you can draw small, at least small amounts 617 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: of power or electricity directly from electric bacteria and the 618 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: soil when other power sources are not readily available. And 619 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: this seems possibly like an interesting alternative to say, you know, 620 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: those small scale solar panels that you see being used 621 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: to power individual devices or lights, you know, things like 622 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: that like various garden gnomes and whatnot that light up 623 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: or their garden gnomes they get power. Yeah, I think so. 624 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: You see, this is like the main place I feel 625 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: like one tends to see this sort of technology, like 626 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: little little lights that go in your yard that have 627 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: little solar panel on them, you know. Uh. But um oh, 628 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: I guess I've just never seen one mounted in a gnome, 629 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: but I see it now. It can have red light 630 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: up eyes. Yeah. I mean I assume there's a no 631 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: there has someone has had to have created one. Wanted 632 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: to know. But you know, it's one thing to to 633 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: to power an LED lamp. But I think this does, 634 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, drive home that even if you're only talking 635 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: about producing such small amounts of electricity to power you know, 636 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, very low energy lighting effects, that still can 637 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: make a huge difference in the right circumstances. Yeah, it can. 638 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: And you can imagine using elements of this bacterial electro 639 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: biology in concert with other technologies, uh, to build up 640 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: more capabilities. Like in his Times article, Carl Zimmer mentions 641 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 1: that a Cornell University researcher named Buzz Barstow and colleagues 642 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out if bacteria could be of 643 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: use when paired with solar panels, so not in place 644 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: of them, but working in concert with them, and the 645 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: idea is that the solar panels would convert the sunlight 646 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: into electric current, which would then be routed into bacterial 647 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: wires down down to these colonies of bacterium called shoe 648 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: and Ella. That's the one I mentioned earlier that was 649 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: discovered in Lake Oneida, shoe and Ella, and that could 650 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: use the energy from the electrons to metabolize organic compounds 651 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: and turn it into fuel. Yeah, this would really be 652 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: key for for carbon fixation. So so the studying question 653 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: here is two thousand nineteen study title Electrical Energy Storage 654 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: with Engineered Biological Systems published in the Journal of Biological Engineering, 655 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: and we're essentially talking It kind of comes back to 656 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: the Virus movie we're talking about because we're essentially talking 657 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: about a cybernetic energy storage system a synthesis of biological 658 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: and non biological electrochemical engineering. The authors point out that 659 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: non biological methods for using electricity for carbon fixation they 660 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: started to match and even exceed the capability of microbes 661 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: but that biological methods are better at pumping out the 662 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: complex sort of complex molecules that are ultimately necessary for 663 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: biofuels and polymers. So it's it's kind of a way 664 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: to improve you know, the photosynthesis in this situation, Like 665 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: you think of it as like photosynthesis plus or photosynthesis 666 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: two point oh. Nice. So it's like making an artificial tree, 667 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: except it's a solar panel and a bunch of bacteria. Yeah. 668 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: Well yeah, it's like it's it's part bacteria, part solar 669 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: system technology and uh and and the results, yeah, can 670 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: could could help with carbon fixation. Yeah. Another thing Carl 671 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: mentions is that the electrical bacterial filaments could be used 672 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: as some form of sensors, like a little little tiny 673 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: electro sensitive or conductive wires can be useful to you know, 674 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: essentially for signaling purposes. And he gives the example of, uh, 675 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, being attached to some kind of wearable technology 676 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: that would touch the skin, and these little bacterial nano 677 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: wires could detect chemical changes in the properties of our 678 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: sweat and that might be biologically useful information that can 679 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: be transmitted to a device that might tell you, I 680 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: don't know what you know there's something wrong with your sweat, dude, 681 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: you need to Yeah. Yeah, just basically this gets into 682 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: the whole area of like, to whatever extent we can 683 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: develop dependable like real time biomonitoring medical medical monitoring technology 684 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: like this kind of a you know, a huge positive 685 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: impact on human health. But yeah, so Carl Carl mentioned 686 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: specifically the work of Derek Lovely again. Uh So he 687 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, again the guy who discovered geobacter and uh 688 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: and has since expanded in into discovering several other microbe species, 689 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: just as other researchers have also discovered other microbe species 690 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: that have these same capabilities. And he's pointed out that 691 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: while geobacters filaments are super thin, like three nanometers in diameter, 692 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: some are more really some of the more really recently 693 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: discovered bacteria have fatter filaments and uh and this is 694 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: especially useful for us if we're looking to manipulate them. 695 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: If you want to manipulate them into some sort of 696 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: an electronic device, like an nano wire sensors that we're 697 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: talking about, it pays to have something a little on 698 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: a you know, a slightly larger scale so that we 699 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: can we can actually work with it. Lovely and Uh 700 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: and his co authors. They also point out that protein 701 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: nano wire like this would have a number of advantage 702 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: over silicon nano wires. So if we're talking about the biocompatibility, 703 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: the state of the stability, the potential for modification into 704 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: various biomolecules and quote chemicals of medical or environmental interest, 705 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: and plus the sustainable method of producing these nano wires 706 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: will make it easier to build the sort of devices 707 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: we're trying to make and hoping to make in the future. 708 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: He points out that we've been making the thimble sized 709 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: amounts of the sort of you know, wire materials that 710 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: we need for for the future we're trying to build. 711 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: But what we need we need buckets of them. We 712 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: need buckets of these nano wires. And this is a 713 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: possible means by which we can grow buckets of nano wires. Oh, 714 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: it almost sounds like the early penicilla problem, you know, 715 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: with the Oxford researchers in the lab and they were 716 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: working with Alexander Fleming strain of penicillin. We talked about 717 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: this in a recent episode of Invention. Uh. You know, 718 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 1: they could they could create this penicillin from the Penicillium fungus, 719 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: the mold, but they couldn't make enough of it that 720 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: it would be useful. Like the first time they tried 721 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: to treat somebody with it who had a deadly infection. 722 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: The guy was successfully treated for a few days, but 723 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,439 Speaker 1: the guy with the infection eventually died because they ran 724 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: out of penicillin. They just couldn't make enough of it. 725 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: And they later uh, it only broke through his medicine 726 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: because they discovered a more productive strain that could make 727 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: more of the stuff. Yeah, And I want to come 728 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: back to the the the the the sustainability aspect of 729 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: this too. The idea here being that if you know, 730 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: you could have these these devices and when they're done, 731 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: you're not just like it's not going into a dump, 732 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: it's not potentially being you know, part of some sort 733 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: of toxic waste. It is just you know, biodegrading into 734 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: the environment. Oh yeah, I mean electronic waste is actually 735 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: a big deal. Like we you know, we we don't 736 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: see a lot of it. But what happens to all 737 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: these electronic components when we're done with them and the 738 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: thing breaks and you just throw it away. Possibility to 739 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: be able to grow these things. I mean obviously that's 740 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: that that would have tremendous advantage. Yeah, absolutely, and and 741 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: that they'd be biodegradable just you know, some other bacterium 742 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: just eats them up when you're done. But another thing 743 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: that I've read about these electroactive bacteria is that some 744 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: of them are extremely good candidates for the bioremediation of waste, 745 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: including toxic and radioactive waste, where they can take something like, 746 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, a type of radioactive waste, say, like you know, 747 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: a type of uranium, and they can, through their their 748 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: metabolic process, reduce that uranium to say, a less soluble form, 749 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: So they're not going to completely destroy it, but they 750 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 1: might change it into a form that makes it less 751 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: damaging to the environment. And the same could be true 752 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: for other forms of pollution. Another another thing I've seen 753 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: it referenced as the the idea of using bacteria like 754 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: this to clean up oil spills. You know that you 755 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: can like eat eat hydrocarbons that are in places they 756 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: shouldn't be, right, Plastic waste being another another big one. Yeah, 757 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: So it's interesting We've been championing fung gui on the 758 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: show for a little bit here and now it's it's 759 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: bacteria's time to shine. We're back in the land of Jubilex. Yeah, 760 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,280 Speaker 1: jubile X being the d n d H demon lord 761 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 1: of slimes and oozes, which in bast episode we kind 762 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: of associated loosely with bacteria, and it is the arch 763 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,760 Speaker 1: enemy of Zogdomoi, the demon lord of funga. I raised 764 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: the flag of Jubilex for today. Yes, that's my side, 765 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: all right. So there we have it. Um, there's you 766 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: know they're there are various areas here where we could 767 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: branch off, so you know, if you're interested in hearing 768 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: more episodes about about bacteria or about various means of 769 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: dealing with radioactive waste, but we would love to hear 770 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: from you. In the meantime, check out stuff to All 771 00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: your mind dot com. That's where you find all the episodes. 772 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: And if you want to support the show, you need 773 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: to tell some friends about it, tell family members about it, 774 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: tell household pets about our show, and then make sure 775 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,760 Speaker 1: you rate and review us wherever you have the power 776 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: to do so. Huge thanks as always to our excellent 777 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: audio producer, Maya Cole. If you'd like to get in 778 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback, on this episode or any other. 779 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: To suggest a topic for the future, or just to 780 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff 781 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your 782 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 1: Mind is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff Works. 783 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio is at the 784 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 785 00:45:42,760 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. One