Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube, Kayleie.
Speaker 2: Senators are going to be in the position to start
Speaker 2: voting on confirmations up or down on a large team
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump has assembled. It will not include Matt Gates.
Speaker 2: It will include Pambondi.
Speaker 3: That's right, someone else who's from Florida. She of course
Speaker 3: did a few rounds as the attorney general of that state.
Speaker 3: And our next guest is someone who actually knows her
Speaker 3: pretty well, and that is the Palm Beach County State
Speaker 3: Attorney Dave Arenberg, who's here with us on Bloomberg TV
Speaker 3: and Radio. Welcome back to Balance of Power. Dave would
Speaker 3: love just your hot take on this pick, which might
Speaker 3: i add, was made very quickly after Matt Gates announced
Speaker 3: he was withdrawing his consideration. We're talking less than twelve
Speaker 3: hours here.
Speaker 4: He likes us Floridians and Pam Bondi. Yeah, clearly, Haley
Speaker 4: and Joe good to be with you.
Speaker 5: Pam Bondi is a loyalist, someone that he doesn't have
Speaker 5: to worry about going off the reservation. But at the
Speaker 5: same time, she's on team normal. She's no Matt Gates.
Speaker 5: She's not ultra Maga. She's not going to engage in
Speaker 5: crazy conspiracy theories. She's not gonna walk Tony Fauci out
Speaker 5: of his house in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs.
Speaker 4: But she will be loyal to Donald Trump. I know
Speaker 4: Pam well. She does believe in the rule of law.
Speaker 4: She treats her people well.
Speaker 5: There will not be mass resignations in the Department of Justice.
Speaker 5: She will get confirmed through the US Senate. She is
Speaker 5: liked by people on both sides of the isle who
Speaker 5: know her, and I think it was actually a smart
Speaker 5: pick by Donald Trump, especially because in the wake of
Speaker 5: the Matt Gates disaster, he didn't waste any time and
Speaker 5: finding someone who will do his agenda by going after
Speaker 5: undocumented migrants, femal at the border, and other things. She'll
Speaker 5: do some controversial things, she'll do some popular things, but
Speaker 5: at least she's just not going to weaponize the DOJ
Speaker 5: to Trump up for lack of a better word, false
Speaker 5: cases bake cases to try to go after Trump's enemies.
Speaker 2: Interesting when you consider the idea of loyalty in some
Speaker 2: of these picks, and I wonder your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: Bondi declined to take legal action against Trump University, even
Speaker 2: after receiving nearly two dozen complaints in her office. In
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. She also joined the team defending Donald Trump
Speaker 2: during his first impeachment. How will that inform the way
Speaker 2: she takes directives from the president elect?
Speaker 4: She is loyal to Donald Trump. He wouldn't have appointed her otherwise.
Speaker 5: But it's not the first time we've seen a loyalist
Speaker 5: as attorney General. Bill Barr was supposed to be a
Speaker 5: loyal than he was for the most of his term.
Speaker 5: JFK had his own brother as attorney general, so it's
Speaker 5: not that unusual. And as for the twenty five thousand
Speaker 5: dollars contribution that Trump made to Pambonni's campaign, remember there's
Speaker 5: a natural tension when you have to run for office
Speaker 5: as a state attorney general. You have to go to
Speaker 5: your supports and ask for money. She did that to
Speaker 5: Donald Trump. He wrote the check and signed it days before.
Speaker 5: There was an article that came out about the investigation
Speaker 5: into Trump University in New York. So there is no
Speaker 5: evidence that there was a quid pro quote because the
Speaker 5: check was written and signed before the article came out,
Speaker 5: which is what informed Pambonni and her team that there
Speaker 5: was this investigation going on. Plus, when you mentioned a
Speaker 5: couple dozen complaints, yes, but those complaints don't go to
Speaker 5: her office. They go to the Department of Agriculture and
Speaker 5: Consumer Services. And although twenty four complaints is not insignificant
Speaker 5: in a huge state like Florida, it's not going to
Speaker 5: rise to a level of the Attorney General's office taking
Speaker 5: action until there's more or until they're notified about it
Speaker 5: in a different way. And one more thing on that
Speaker 5: her office turned over at the time eight thousand pages
Speaker 5: of documents to show that there was no communication between
Speaker 5: her office and Donald Trump about Trump University. So yes,
Speaker 5: I admit the timing doesn't look good, but as far
Speaker 5: as evidence of quid pro quo and bribery, there is none.
Speaker 3: Well, so as we consider here the role that the
Speaker 3: Attorney General has leading the Department of Justice overall, there's
Speaker 3: also the consideration of what falls underneath that very large
Speaker 3: umbrella Dave, like, for example, the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Speaker 3: And I wonder what this pick, if anything, suggests to
Speaker 3: you about the way in which we may see those
Speaker 3: other choices shaped by the President elect.
Speaker 4: It depends who he's able to pick.
Speaker 5: Now, the fact that he's going to terminate Chris Ray
Speaker 5: as troubling because you're supposed to get a ten year term,
Speaker 5: you're supposed to be insulated from politics. But then to
Speaker 5: try to remove him in favor of Cash Betel, that's ultramaga,
Speaker 5: that's taking loyalists a step further. That's a Matt gats
Speaker 5: type pick. If he picks Mike Rogers from Michigan, that's
Speaker 5: a little more like Team Normal. So it depends who
Speaker 5: he picks, in addition to the fact that he'll be
Speaker 5: doing something he's not supposed to do and getting rid
Speaker 5: of of Chris Ray. So we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 5: But I do see Pambondi as a bit of a
Speaker 5: guardrail because as someone who knows her and has worked
Speaker 5: with her, she does believe in the rule of law,
Speaker 5: and I think that whatever she does, she'll tether it
Speaker 5: to the rule of law. She doesn't want to lose
Speaker 5: her bar license or getting incarcerated like Mike Knifong, the
Speaker 5: prosecutor the Duke Lacross case who went rogue. She knows better.
Speaker 5: She's been a twenty year prosecutor. She was an eight
Speaker 5: year attorney general. So although she will support the Trump agenda,
Speaker 5: she's not gonna do something that she believes is illegal.
Speaker 2: For him suggesting that she would stand up to Donald
Speaker 2: Trump if necessary. If that's the case, the far cry
Speaker 2: from Matt Gates. So net here, Pam BONDI will not
Speaker 2: break the Department of Justice, is your message today, Dave Erenberg.
Speaker 5: Yes, she's a loyalist, and she is at the same
Speaker 5: time someone who's a career prosecutor, who's got experience, who's qualified,
Speaker 5: and who believes in the rule of law. She is
Speaker 5: not going to take this job to burn the place down.
Speaker 5: Matt Gates promised to burn the place down. That's a
Speaker 5: big difference. And for my fellow Democrats who are saying, well,
Speaker 5: there should be a better choice, Sallyates ain't walking through
Speaker 5: that door. Eric Holder is not going to be appointed
Speaker 5: by Donald Trump. So if you're talking about the kind
Speaker 5: of candidate who Donald Trump will nominate for Attorney general,
Speaker 5: it won't get better than Pam BONDI.
Speaker 3: Dave, just quickly before we let you go. We have
Speaker 3: about a minute left here. We also learned today that
Speaker 3: the judge in Donald Trump's New York hush money case,
Speaker 3: in which he was convicted on thirty four fellow accounts
Speaker 3: one Mrshawn, has agreed to postpone his sentencing that was
Speaker 3: supposed to happen next week indefinitely. I wonder if you
Speaker 3: think that is a the right move and if b
Speaker 3: that means he's never actually going to get sentenced in
Speaker 3: this case.
Speaker 4: No, I was to be expected, Kayleie.
Speaker 5: I would have been surprised he's sentenced them just weeks
Speaker 5: before he entered the White House. I mean, judge Mrschawan
Speaker 5: doesn't want to look like he's weaponizing his position. And
Speaker 5: also he knows that Trump is going to appeal anyways
Speaker 5: and that will stay his sentence. So why sentence from
Speaker 5: now when there's going to be many months of appeals
Speaker 5: as he goes all the way up to the Supreme
Speaker 5: Court claiming he had immunity And the court should never
Speaker 5: have admitted the evidence of a couple of his aids
Speaker 5: Mallard western Hot and Hope Hicks into evidence, So the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court is going to deal with that. So I
Speaker 5: think you and I and Joe should check back in
Speaker 5: January of twenty twenty nine, when we can see the
Speaker 5: sentencing hearing. By then, of course, we could be living
Speaker 5: on Mars by then, we don't know, or you know, Kaylee,
Speaker 5: you'll be owning Bloomberg TV by then. We don't know,
Speaker 5: but that will happen one day.
Speaker 2: Is that in the cards you're buying Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's not get me in trouble with management here.
Speaker 2: Listen. This is important because it's coming from the center
Speaker 2: of the political universe, which is Palm Beach. Dave Herenberg,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us, a Palm
Speaker 2: Beach County state attorney, a friend of Pam Bondi. By
Speaker 2: the way, while we're talking transitioning, Kaylee, we've got another report.
Speaker 2: This is not officially from the Trump camp, but a
Speaker 2: new name for ag secretary.
Speaker 3: That's right, Kelly Leffler, the former senator who of course
Speaker 3: lost after she was named to fill that seat. She
Speaker 3: lost the actual seat in Georgia in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: but she is expected to be named the Secretary of
Speaker 3: Agriculture We'll still waiting for treasury though.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens
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Speaker 2: Survived another week, and we still don't know who the
Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary is going to be. I know that's your
Speaker 2: first question every day when we come to air, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna find out. Remembering it was the week after
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving in the first Trump administration when the economic team
Speaker 2: was assembled. As Charlie Pellett mentioned, we're talking about now
Speaker 2: the Trump Treasury two step. We'll explain that little bit
Speaker 2: later when we spend some time with Nathan Dean. He's
Speaker 2: looking at all of the picks here, by the way
Speaker 2: that we have heard, and I realize we still have
Speaker 2: some blanks to fill in and what they're going to
Speaker 2: mean for policy moving forward in the new administration in
Speaker 2: the new Congress. How about this for a headline for you.
Speaker 2: The most important event of the day so far in
Speaker 2: Washington the US Capitol, Christmas Tree rolled up on the
Speaker 2: flatbed on the west front of the US Capitol. Yes,
Speaker 2: it is the season.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: Imagine a world with all the business we talk about here,
Speaker 2: the madness on Capitol Hill. Imagine a world in which
Speaker 2: you could become senator for a day or a couple
Speaker 2: of months and have the experience representing the state that
Speaker 2: you grew up in. That has been the experience for
Speaker 2: George Helmy, the newest Senator in Washington, who's already packing
Speaker 2: his bags as a caretaker. This is the man nominated
Speaker 2: by the Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy, to replace
Speaker 2: Senator Bob Menendez and fill the seat, holding it for
Speaker 2: Andy Kim when he comes in here after votes are certified.
Speaker 2: And it's a real pleasure to spend some time today
Speaker 2: with George Helmy, Senator. Welcome to Bloomberg. It's great to
Speaker 2: have you. Did you ever think in the years you
Speaker 2: were working for Frank Lautenberg or Corey Booker that you
Speaker 2: would ever become a US Senator?
Speaker 7: Joel, thank you so much for having me. It's great
Speaker 7: to be on with you. No, absolutely not. I'm a
Speaker 7: public policy person first and foremost. I've always enjoyed being
Speaker 7: the the guy behind the principle, and I've always enjoyed
Speaker 7: sort of being at the table but behind the scenes
Speaker 7: and not being the candidate. But this has been an
Speaker 7: incredible experience, and frankly, as you point, it's been the
Speaker 7: continuance of a third tour of duty in the United
Speaker 7: States Senate in a different role and obviously continuing my
Speaker 7: public service following my time as the longest serving chief
Speaker 7: of staff in the state of New Jersey's history.
Speaker 2: Well, that's pretty cool. And by the way, I do
Speaker 2: want our listeners and viewers to know that we're going
Speaker 2: to be having a conversation this same hour. We're bookending
Speaker 2: the hour with New Jersey Senator your former boss, Phil
Speaker 2: Murphy is going to be in the second half of
Speaker 2: the hour in a special conversation. So let's talk about
Speaker 2: your experience for a moment. And I am curious, by
Speaker 2: the way, about your tenure because I understand that there
Speaker 2: is a special arrangement here. You're going to hold the
Speaker 2: seat until, as I mentioned, votes are certified in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: That would mean Andy Kim is actually going to be
Speaker 2: part of this session. Is that the plan?
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, first let me say you you can never
Speaker 7: get enough New Jersey, especially with all the great things
Speaker 7: that are especially an innovation sector. So you've got a
Speaker 7: great Friday show planned here. But yes, Andy and I
Speaker 7: go way back. We've known each other for over a decade.
Speaker 7: I will be in the seat about three months and
Speaker 7: I'm looking forward to him getting in. We had a
Speaker 7: great conversation last Friday about the things that I've carried
Speaker 7: coming out of the state and now working in the Senate,
Speaker 7: and I do hope to hand over the reins shortly.
Speaker 7: So you know, New Jersey, the way the seniority works
Speaker 7: in the Senate will stand to gain from Andy having
Speaker 7: a few weeks ahead of the incoming freshman.
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. Give him a little bit of a
Speaker 2: head start. Does he get a bigger office, I don't know.
Speaker 2: You can let me know if that happens, because I
Speaker 2: know that your tenure has been brief, Senator, but you've
Speaker 2: actually sunk your teeth into some pretty important issues, and
Speaker 2: one of them is youth mental health awareness. You've come
Speaker 2: together with Katie Britt, which our audience should also know.
Speaker 2: You've reached across the aisle to work with a Republican
Speaker 2: from Alabama here on the floor of the Senate is
Speaker 2: this the defining issue for your brief term.
Speaker 7: I've been really lucky, Joe to get on all of
Speaker 7: the committees that Center Menendez was on, which include, frankly,
Speaker 7: three of the most important committees in the United States
Speaker 7: Senate Banking, Finance, and Senate for Foreign Relations. But knowing
Speaker 7: that I was here for a short time, as you mentioned,
Speaker 7: I wanted to find an issue that I felt, as
Speaker 7: a father and as a public policy person needed more
Speaker 7: attention and that there was already bipartisan support. Knowing that
Speaker 7: things in the Senate, frankly, the things in Congress take
Speaker 7: a long time to get done, what could I use
Speaker 7: this opportunity the relationships I already had as you mentioned
Speaker 7: Katie Britt just like me, a former staffer turned senator.
Speaker 7: Obviously she was elected to.
Speaker 2: A full term.
Speaker 7: Where was there already momentum that I could use my
Speaker 7: time there to go talk to folks on both sides
Speaker 7: of the island the Senate, and I've been really engaging
Speaker 7: members on the House to say, hey, this is a
Speaker 7: national issue. We know the data coming out of the
Speaker 7: twenty tens about self harm young girls whom making suicide
Speaker 7: plans exasperated. In my opinion, by the effects of the pandemic.
Speaker 7: You know, what can we do to better protect our
Speaker 7: children on the front end, knowing what the inputs are
Speaker 7: to some of the issues we're facing, but also help
Speaker 7: create more access when we do have our young people
Speaker 7: in moments of crisis. And thankfully we've been very successful
Speaker 7: in advancing the issue at a great colloque on the
Speaker 7: floor attended by many of our Republican and Democratic senators
Speaker 7: the other day, and we just introduced new legislation and
Speaker 7: I'm hopeful. Look, I'm a public policy person, as I
Speaker 7: said a few times, Joe, I'm okay with none of
Speaker 7: this carrying my name when it gets done. But I
Speaker 7: really feel confident that sometime, whether it be next month
Speaker 7: or next year, we're going to see progress on these
Speaker 7: on this really important issue.
Speaker 2: Well, I salute you for your approach here. One of
Speaker 2: your ideas is the Pride in Mental Health Act that
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about, Senator would award grants
Speaker 2: to assess and improve mental health and substance use outcomes
Speaker 2: of LGBTQ plus youth.
Speaker 7: How do you.
Speaker 2: Rationalize this idea when next door in the House of Representatives,
Speaker 2: there's now a resolution that's been brought forth by the
Speaker 2: Speaker of the House to block the first transgender House
Speaker 2: member from using certain bathrooms. How do we have both
Speaker 2: at once?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, to me, they're really sort of disconnected, Joe.
Speaker 7: I really with all the issues that Americans are facing,
Speaker 7: you know, just using my own experience in public policy
Speaker 7: in the state of New Jersey, higher education costs are
Speaker 7: going up, you know, we're still dealing with the inflationary
Speaker 7: challenges that came out of COVID as you know, Joe,
Speaker 7: I've been so focused on the humanitarian ills and crises
Speaker 7: in the world, where maybe the nine million in South
Speaker 7: Sudan that need daily humanitarian aid, the issues in Gaza,
Speaker 7: the issues in Ukraine, but really the issues that working
Speaker 7: families are facing. It's frankly surprising that the Republican leadership
Speaker 7: in the House spends so much time talking about bathrooms.
Speaker 7: On the other hand, we know the mental health issues
Speaker 7: and the vulnerability that are LGBTQA youth already face. We
Speaker 7: have in New Jersey incredible nonprofit organizations that help those
Speaker 7: help those young people in moments of crisis so that
Speaker 7: they don't commit acts of self harm and don't take
Speaker 7: their own lives and to provide federal grants to better
Speaker 7: support them. I think is really important, and as you know,
Speaker 7: a number of my bills also speak to the much
Speaker 7: broader issue, whether it be transparency in those who are
Speaker 7: going after our youth and providing grants for other opportunities
Speaker 7: for pure support, which is very important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that. I just wonder what a headline
Speaker 2: like that means for mental health for young trans people.
Speaker 2: I have to ask you about salt if I'm talking
Speaker 2: to the senator from New Jersey here. This is something
Speaker 2: that comes up every day on Bloomberg. There's an effort
Speaker 2: now endorsed by Donald Trump himself to kind of undo
Speaker 2: what was done in the twenty seventeen tax cuts. Raise
Speaker 2: the cap. You're more specific. You want to exchange the
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars deduction for a one hundred thousand dollars deduction.
Speaker 2: How's that going over?
Speaker 7: I think there's actually a great reception to it. I'm
Speaker 7: really happy that the president who installed the cap the
Speaker 7: twenty seventeen bill is now for lifting the cap. That's
Speaker 7: a that's welcome news. I've had two hearings in the
Speaker 7: Banking Committee and the subcommittee that has jurisdiction over the
Speaker 7: tax policy. Just one the other day in which I
Speaker 7: elevated this again to the chairwoman and the Republican members,
Speaker 7: talking about the investments that New Jersey makes with its
Speaker 7: property taxes for the best public schools, for open spaces,
Speaker 7: and why I put a cap on it is, Look,
Speaker 7: you know, I come out of the business world, Joe,
Speaker 7: which I think is important for your audience to know.
Speaker 7: And these tax deductions do have a cost associated with them,
Speaker 7: and I think you you know, those make those who
Speaker 7: have significantly higher above one hundred thousand dollars in property taxes,
Speaker 7: you know, can afford to pay a little bit more,
Speaker 7: while the majority of the middle class we'll be able
Speaker 7: to deduct a significant portion of their of the texts.
Speaker 2: Well, Senator, I'm glad we had a chance to spend
Speaker 2: some time together. George heelll me the Democrat from New Jersey,
Speaker 2: the pride of Jersey City, getting our New Jersey or
Speaker 2: bust hour off and running with style. Senator, thank you.
Speaker 2: You'll have to let me know if it's safe to
Speaker 2: go back to Morton's one of these days here in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. We'll have a lot more coming up. Nathan
Speaker 2: Dean is next here. I'm Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apocarplay and then
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew. It's good to see you. You made
Speaker 2: it to Friday, the weekend before Thanksgiving. Maybe you have
Speaker 2: a long one. I hope for your sake that you do.
Speaker 2: It's awfully quiet around here in Washington as lawmakers head
Speaker 2: home for the holiday and we wait for the big transition,
Speaker 2: which we're of course talking about all day long around here.
Speaker 2: Let me just answer the question that you have in mind.
Speaker 2: We don't have a Treasury secretary pick, but we do
Speaker 2: have a new concept. Let's work with what we have. Right,
Speaker 2: We're gonna go to war with the army we have
Speaker 2: seems to be the idea at mar Alago, but we
Speaker 2: might need everybody for this. It's the Treasury two step
Speaker 2: President elect floating this idea of Kevin Warsh as Treasury Secretary,
Speaker 2: with the understanding he would be later nominated to run
Speaker 2: the FED. When Jay Powell's term as chair ends Scott
Speaker 2: Bessett meantime, keep him in the House, the White House,
Speaker 2: he runs the National Economic Council, he becomes Treasury Secretary,
Speaker 2: when Worsh becomes FED chair Nathan Dean, how did I do?
Speaker 4: I think you did great?
Speaker 2: Is that what that's really the plan here?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 9: I think that it's a plan to make sense from
Speaker 9: President Trump's perspective, because you know President Trump said prior
Speaker 9: that you you know he's floated this idea of firing
Speaker 9: or demoting drome Pole at the FED. We don't think
Speaker 9: that's gonna happen. Better makes better sense just to let
Speaker 9: Paul serve out the rest of his term. But they've
Speaker 9: also floated this idea of a shadow banking FED chairman.
Speaker 9: And if Kevin Worsh is now Treasury Secretary with the idea,
Speaker 9: than in a year it's gonna be the FED chairman.
Speaker 9: Wall Street is going to be looking at the Department
Speaker 9: of Treasury over on over next to the White House.
Speaker 9: They're not gonna be looking down constitution having at the FED.
Speaker 9: So it makes sense because with Kevin Worsh, you get
Speaker 9: somebody that wall Street I think can work with wall
Speaker 9: Street respects and then they move to the Fed and
Speaker 9: then you get Scott Bessett at any Sea chair to
Speaker 9: move up against somebody that Wall Street can work work with.
Speaker 9: So I think this plan, if it were to go
Speaker 9: into fruition, certainly would pass the Senate. I think Wall
Speaker 9: Street would be pretty happy with it. I think a
Speaker 9: couple of folks on the populous side of the Republican
Speaker 9: Party may not be so happy with it. But I
Speaker 9: would also just remember Treasury doesn't play the same amount
Speaker 9: of role that it plays in terms of tariffs like
Speaker 9: Commerce does, which is why Howard lutnake A. Commerce is
Speaker 9: much more important to President Trump's initial of implementing those tariffs.
Speaker 2: So you put yourself down at mar A Lago. You
Speaker 2: know the President elect was interviewing all three. It was
Speaker 2: right Rowan worsh Besson. This week he's sitting down with besstt.
Speaker 2: It was his idea to have this shadow FED chair, right,
Speaker 2: So you know, mister president, they starts spitballing on this.
Speaker 2: I said, well, how about you, maybe we could do that,
Speaker 2: make the Treasury Secretary be the shadow. You just hang
Speaker 2: out with me in the White House till he's done.
Speaker 2: We'll pull the trigger on this whole thing. Did they
Speaker 2: work it out together on the patio.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, obviously I wish I
Speaker 9: was on that patio because of the weather.
Speaker 2: It's knowing here, but.
Speaker 9: Be just just to listen about how they're gaming this out.
Speaker 9: But what I will say is that President Trump wants speed.
Speaker 9: The reason why he wants these picks done and he
Speaker 9: wants to move them quickly is because every single moment
Speaker 9: that the Senate is focused on nominations, you're not focused
Speaker 9: on tax reform. And if Speaker Johnson kicks the funding
Speaker 9: fight from December into March again, it's going to junk
Speaker 9: up a lot of President Trump's first hundred days on
Speaker 9: Capitol Hill. So if they can get this plan to work,
Speaker 9: and if they can get enough for republic and Senators
Speaker 9: go with it. I presume that they can, then you
Speaker 9: score your idea of moving quickly, getting a shadow fed share,
Speaker 9: and also making Wall Streets fairly comfortable with where you're
Speaker 9: going on two of the biggest picks from the economic perspective.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Secretary Lutnik, assuming he's confirmed, becomes the tariffs. Are
Speaker 2: they put USTR under commerce that's the tariff House. That's
Speaker 2: how that works. Treasury gets cover because Lutnik is doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 9: So this is where the soap opera version of the
Speaker 9: Trump administration begins, because on one hand, you're going to
Speaker 9: have President Trump pushing tariffs. Tariffs are very popular with
Speaker 9: the President. This is something that he's campaigned on and
Speaker 9: most likely something that we're going to see in the
Speaker 9: first half of next year. But Wall Street, on the
Speaker 9: other hand, may not like tariffs so much. If companies
Speaker 9: like home Depot or a Nike or Adidas have to
Speaker 9: start buying a lot more expensive products from outside of
Speaker 9: the United States, Wall Street's not going to like that.
Speaker 9: So you're going to have the Treasury Secretary at one
Speaker 9: point saying, look, these stocks may be going into the
Speaker 9: red because if your tire of policy. But on the
Speaker 9: other hand, you're going to have Commerce saying, well, this
Speaker 9: is what we were elected to do. I don't envy
Speaker 9: them and how they're going to have to have this
Speaker 9: decision and how they're going to have to fight this out.
Speaker 9: But ultimately it's going to be President Trump's decision to
Speaker 9: be either direct Commerce to move forward with these tariffs
Speaker 9: are not We will always tell our clients though Just
Speaker 9: remember tariffs, for the most part, come from the power
Speaker 9: of the presidency, which means that you're going to see
Speaker 9: a lot of headline miss to begin, but then as
Speaker 9: the process plays out, there could be exemptions, there could
Speaker 9: be lobbying, there could be reciprocal tariff threats from China,
Speaker 9: for example. So presidents never back themselves into political back
Speaker 9: corners with tariffs. It's a long, drawing out process as
Speaker 9: opposed to a magic wan that happens on DA fascinating.
Speaker 2: Your eyebrows must have raised when you heard this idea
Speaker 2: of a crypto tzar floated. We've got no details still,
Speaker 2: at least that I've heard on what this is, what
Speaker 2: the title really would be, what agency this person would
Speaker 2: floating around the White House somehow? Do you know anything
Speaker 2: about her? Who that would be?
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 9: So, but what we tell folks with when it comes
Speaker 9: to czars is that they have fancy titles, but a
Speaker 9: lot of times they don't have huge implementation avenues. Because remember,
Speaker 9: in the crypto space, it's going to be the SEC
Speaker 9: chair and the CFTC chair that will be implementing regulations.
Speaker 9: It'll be Congress on the other hand, So think of
Speaker 9: czars in this case, the cryptos are. Think of them
Speaker 9: as cheerleaders. They're going around, they're telling folks, yes, we
Speaker 9: are working on this. We're going to work with the
Speaker 9: SEC to make the market. It's to make the market happy. So,
Speaker 9: but czars are most the most difficult positions from Washington
Speaker 9: because they can't have the power to actually implement things.
Speaker 9: They need to rely on others.
Speaker 2: Well, meanwhile, Gary Gensler is packing up the office right now.
Speaker 2: There's a short list of about one hundred people to
Speaker 2: replace them. How's this going to work?
Speaker 9: Yeah, so you know, I think the SEC chair is
Speaker 9: a second tier priority for Mario Lago. The reason being
Speaker 9: is there's about eighteen names I counted, which means fifteen
Speaker 9: of them are probably self promoting.
Speaker 2: They're eighteen counted, eighteen names.
Speaker 9: But for the SEC chair, what we're looking at is
Speaker 9: are you going to get a crypto pick or a
Speaker 9: Wall Street pick? The crypto pick, there's a lot of
Speaker 9: money that's gone in the President Trump's campaign to ensure
Speaker 9: that crypto is a top issue, but it's not the
Speaker 9: top issue for the SEC. Are you going to get
Speaker 9: a Wall Street pick? Think of somebody that comes from
Speaker 9: the Paul Atkins Commissioner Paul Atkins or even who came
Speaker 9: from the cloth of the J.
Speaker 2: Clayton, you know, the former SCC chair.
Speaker 9: Now Trump's picked the lead DSD and why you know
Speaker 9: that is a Q Capital formation pick. They'll be close
Speaker 9: to Wall Street. I think what will happen over the
Speaker 9: SEC is they'll hit pause. They'll wait till about April
Speaker 9: or May. It's second tier pick. You'll have a two two.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I think what they're going to do is they're going
Speaker 9: to focus on other things. You'll have Commissioner Waio or
Speaker 9: Commissioner Purse, the Republican commissioners, one of them will step
Speaker 9: up the acting chair. They'll lay it on an agenda.
Speaker 9: But I don't think you're going to see this really
Speaker 9: fast deregulatory effort over at the SEU.
Speaker 2: Crypto loves this, right, I mean, we're looking at one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars here. The difference since the election has
Speaker 2: been wild and the money made. I know you're not
Speaker 2: a technical analyst here, but those who do cover the
Speaker 2: space think there's a new floor, that this idea of
Speaker 2: a national reserve has completely changed the dynamic for bitcoin
Speaker 2: at least do you see it that way?
Speaker 9: So sort of. So right now, the United States is
Speaker 9: sitting on around two hundred and eight thousand bitcoins, so
Speaker 9: you know, that's a lot of that's a lot of
Speaker 9: cash right now. And so you know, Senator Lemus has
Speaker 9: proposed this bill that the United States should build a
Speaker 9: strategic reserve of about five percent of the world's bitcoins
Speaker 9: so the United States can own it. So we are
Speaker 9: I own two hundred and eight thousand, so that could
Speaker 9: be packaged together put into what they call quote unquote
Speaker 9: a reserve. The problem, however, is to get additionally, is
Speaker 9: you're going to need appropriations from Congress to essentially direct
Speaker 9: moneys to purchase bitcoin, and or the executive branch is
Speaker 9: going to have to figure out how to finagle appropriations
Speaker 9: for other things to be used to purchase for bitcoin.
Speaker 9: It's going to get messy. And so that's why I
Speaker 9: think this bill is the most likely scenario, certainly something
Speaker 9: that we'll be talking about next year. I don't want
Speaker 9: to say it's going to have decent chances of passage immediately,
Speaker 9: but what I would always say to the bitcoin crowd is, yes,
Speaker 9: you're getting good sentiment right now because you have a
Speaker 9: president who is going to be very much pro crypto,
Speaker 9: but the logistics and the specifics of what cryptocurrency regulation
Speaker 9: looks like will more likely turning coinbase into something like
Speaker 9: CME Group or the Continental Exchange, very similar to what
Speaker 9: we see in the derivatives world today, which not the
Speaker 9: wild wild West.
Speaker 2: Fascinating, always fascinating to spend time with Nathan Dean at
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence. You're just back from a tour of European
Speaker 2: capitals because clients want to know what in the world
Speaker 2: is going on post election. The great part about Nathan
Speaker 2: Dean is he's about to go on another tour of
Speaker 2: European capitals after Thanksgiving. What was the most common question,
Speaker 2: most common worry that you encountered.
Speaker 9: So obviously the European tariffs, and our view on that
Speaker 9: is that it will eventually come, but you know, I
Speaker 9: think China's iis priority. But then we got a lot
Speaker 9: of questions about the Inflation Reduction Act because there's a
Speaker 9: lot of European capacs coming into the United States on
Speaker 9: these ideas that solar incentives are going to stick around.
Speaker 9: So our thought on the IRA is that even though
Speaker 9: you'll hear whispers of it being thrown into the tax
Speaker 9: reform debate. The IRA, for the most part, we think
Speaker 9: is cemented. It's four hundred thirty three billion dollars. That's
Speaker 9: cheap when you have to figure out how to pay
Speaker 9: for four to four and aftullion of tax extensions. Certain
Speaker 9: aspects of it can be cut, but ultimately there's a
Speaker 9: lot of European money going in from the industrial base
Speaker 9: into southern Trump states like you know, Alabama, Louisiana and Texas.
Speaker 9: That's building solar farms and solar plants, and local politicians
Speaker 9: do not want to see those seven hundred jobs disappear
Speaker 9: because of something that the.
Speaker 2: Solar stocks have fallen off a cliff since the election. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it could be an opportunity.
Speaker 9: He could be an opportunity.
Speaker 2: Great to see you, happy Thanksgiving, Thanks for always being great.
Speaker 2: That's Nathan Dean, of course, you know that with his
Speaker 2: patented fleece vest.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken
Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then
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Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 3: Here in Washington, we've been looking for some answers in
Speaker 3: the last twenty four hours after the news that Matt
Speaker 3: Gates was taking himself out of contention for Attorney General.
Speaker 3: We know that Donald Trump has now nominated the former
Speaker 3: Florida Attorney General, Pam Bondi to replace him, at least
Speaker 3: as nominee. But we had another question, Joe, which was,
Speaker 3: what does Matt Gayz's political future then look like? Will
Speaker 3: he try to take a seat in the one hundred
Speaker 3: and nineteenth Congress. And according to an interview he did
Speaker 3: with Charlie Cook or Kirk Rather, the answer to that
Speaker 3: question is no, he's not planning on returning to the House.
Speaker 3: So we've got one question answered, but we still have
Speaker 3: a lot more we're looking for answers we do.
Speaker 2: We still don't have a Treasury secretary pick. We're told
Speaker 2: that could be any time or after Thanksgiving. And then
Speaker 2: there's this idea. As we drill down into this idea,
Speaker 2: keep me honest here, the Treasury two step we'll call it.
Speaker 2: You put Kevin warsh In as Treasury Secretary. You keep
Speaker 2: him there until he becomes fed chair in j Powell's
Speaker 2: term ends. All the while Scott Bessent is in the
Speaker 2: White House chairing the National Economic Council, and he becomes
Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary when Warsh goes to the Fed. Did I
Speaker 2: do it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what the Wall Street Journal has reported.
Speaker 2: That's exactly the report today that has tongues wagging in Washington.
Speaker 2: And we wanted to talk to Laura Davison about this
Speaker 2: Bluebird Politics editor. Are we just keeping ourselves busy waiting
Speaker 2: for a name to drop here? Or is this a
Speaker 2: real concept at mar A Laco.
Speaker 10: This is an idea that's being considered when they're looking
Speaker 10: at the Treasury role, they're looking at the broader suite
Speaker 10: of economic jobs, and they're trying to get a team
Speaker 10: that's cohesive. You know, we saw in some cases that
Speaker 10: you know, people didn't want to work for Howard Lutnick,
Speaker 10: for example, So people said, no, I won't take the
Speaker 10: NEC job, you know, if he's going to be Treasury secretary.
Speaker 10: So there's a lot of jockey and not just like
Speaker 10: I want this certain title, but also who are going
Speaker 10: to be the people around me in that specific role.
Speaker 4: So that's a lot of what's happening here.
Speaker 10: But Also, Trump is not satisfied with the choices he has.
Speaker 10: You there's no one perfect candidate, and that's why we're
Speaker 10: seeing this drag on and we could potentially see new
Speaker 10: names or even surprise names crop up into the mix here.
Speaker 3: I think it's fascinating that it's taken this long to
Speaker 3: figure out Treasury, and it could take much longer. Still,
Speaker 3: we don't know timeline here. Whereas Matt Gates drops out
Speaker 3: and less than twelve hours later, he already has a
Speaker 3: new name on the list for AG ready to go.
Speaker 3: So clearly there were ideas in place here, backup plans,
Speaker 3: as there was perhaps writing on the wall for Matt Gates.
Speaker 3: But does that not mean there's not backup plans to
Speaker 3: the backup plans if he doesn't like the Treasury options
Speaker 3: that have been presented to him thus far.
Speaker 10: We're on the backup plans right now.
Speaker 4: So Mark Rowan and Kevin Warshaw.
Speaker 10: Okay, so these are not in the initial dis sessions
Speaker 10: brought them down there this week, But those interviews were
Speaker 10: days ago. There's still meetings happening, They're still trying to
Speaker 10: figure everything out, and there's just you know, you basically
Speaker 10: have an internal conflict here if Trump wants someone who
Speaker 10: is a Wall Street person who has the pedigreeing experience
Speaker 10: but also is maga and those things are oftentimes at odds.
Speaker 2: Pete Haig Seth making the rounds yesterday in the Senate,
Speaker 2: he did have an answer to the charges that had
Speaker 2: been levied against him. A police report came out detailing
Speaker 2: this sexual assault case that he paid money to Settle
Speaker 2: who says that they decided not to file charges. And
Speaker 2: that's the end of the story, is it.
Speaker 10: We'll find out. Two months is a really long time.
Speaker 10: There could be a drip drip drip of ault allegations
Speaker 10: that continue to come out here. You know, Trump is
Speaker 10: basically daring the Republican senator, saying, look, defy me. But
Speaker 10: you know, there's we saw that Republicans, you know, in
Speaker 10: the Senate are not afraid. They said no to Matt
Speaker 10: Gates and they could say no to someone else. So
Speaker 10: this is really going to be sort of the key
Speaker 10: one to watch here. You know, it looks like some
Speaker 10: of the others, perhaps Tulsa Gabbard, RFK Junior, may get by.
Speaker 10: They're a little bit more qualified from a at least
Speaker 10: that's what Republican Senators are saying, you know, if you
Speaker 10: look at the resumes, a lot of people they don't
Speaker 10: necessarily have the experience that one would traditionally have. But
Speaker 10: I think there's a widespread recognition among Republicans in the
Speaker 10: Congress that they can't, you know, say no to three
Speaker 10: or four or five of these picks. So is the
Speaker 10: prevailing thinking here that John Thune essentially used his one
Speaker 10: free pass to tank a nominee even though he didn't
Speaker 10: really Matt Gates had to take himself out, or that
Speaker 10: there still could be a free pass yet to go
Speaker 10: for one of these other controversial nominees. This is really
Speaker 10: what remains to be seen here, And I think what
Speaker 10: the what the specific circumstances and facts on the ground
Speaker 10: and alligations are. You know, everything that was swirling around
Speaker 10: mad Gates was really bad. And you know there was
Speaker 10: also this you know, House Ethics Committee report that contained
Speaker 10: more and clearly Gates did not want to have that
Speaker 10: out there. So this is they think that the facts
Speaker 10: and circumstances may matter here. If there are more details
Speaker 10: or things that come out that are they're problematic, Thune
Speaker 10: may have more leverage, but you know the fact that
Speaker 10: he was willing, and he just got the job, you know,
Speaker 10: not just a couple of days ago. This week was
Speaker 10: already willing to say no. Indicates that this might be
Speaker 10: emblematic of his leadership style.
Speaker 2: Laura Davison, thank you so much, Bloomberg Politics editor. On
Speaker 2: this Friday, just imagine what the weekend could bring.
Speaker 3: I hope she does not want to imagine that.
Speaker 4: I think has been great with us.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. Nothing will happen until Monday. You heard
Speaker 2: it here first. Headlines have been flying though. This has
Speaker 2: been quite a time for our politics team. We spent
Speaker 2: some time just yesterday talking with Mikey Cheryl, a congressoman
Speaker 2: from New Jersey Democrats is running for governor. Her ideas
Speaker 2: on this heg seth Matter, as a veteran of the.
Speaker 3: Navy, a former female Navy helicopter pilot, told us.
Speaker 6: This, look, if you sort of attacked women's service in
Speaker 6: the way he has, that would be really concerning to
Speaker 6: any commanding officer in the fleet.
Speaker 4: Right now.
Speaker 6: We have built so much and it has continued to
Speaker 6: make us a strong, resilient force. And I would hate
Speaker 6: to see a Secretary of Defense that had as his
Speaker 6: agenda and goal tearing that apart, Let's.
Speaker 2: Turn down to our signature political panel. Rick Davis and
Speaker 2: Jeanie Shanzo are back with us. Rick, of course, Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Politics contributor and partner at Stone Court Capital, Bloomberg Politics
Speaker 2: contributor and political science professor at Iona University. What's your
Speaker 2: thought on this today, Genie, now that we've had a
Speaker 2: little bit of time for this to settle, Pete Hegseth
Speaker 2: making the rounds in the Senate with this scandal hanging
Speaker 2: over his head and an idea that we should bar
Speaker 2: women from combat roles like the one that Mikey Cheryl had.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, there's been time now that we've had
Speaker 8: several people go back and read. You know, Pete Hegseth
Speaker 8: is the author of four books that have been best sellers,
Speaker 8: and he has said a lot, a lot that's controversial
Speaker 8: in those books. People have been reading through those and
Speaker 8: you know, with two months to go, potentially before he
Speaker 8: gets to a hearing, if it gets that far, how
Speaker 8: much more can come out and be chewed over? You know,
Speaker 8: I think your conversation with mikey Yl Cheryl is absolutely
Speaker 8: on point. You know, he is going to have to
Speaker 8: defend these views or he's going to have to pivot,
Speaker 8: and he's going to do it in front of senators,
Speaker 8: including vets, including female senators who are vets, who have
Speaker 8: given their lives for the military. So he's going to
Speaker 8: have a lot of explaining to do. And that doesn't
Speaker 8: even start to get to the police report that is
Speaker 8: pretty damning as well.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Rick would love for you to weigh in here,
Speaker 3: because if we look back at history and the things
Speaker 3: that have taken down candidates for foreign nominations like this
Speaker 3: in the past, perhaps you could see a number of
Speaker 3: things that would have previously been found to be disqualifying,
Speaker 3: whether it was these character questions or just a question
Speaker 3: of experience, not to diminish his service. He of course
Speaker 3: has served in the National Garden, He's done tours of duty,
Speaker 3: and yet he hasn't actually been a leader in the
Speaker 3: way we typically see of Defense Department nominees. And we're
Speaker 3: talking about the United States military here, the greatest fighting
Speaker 3: force in the world.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that most of the time when I've
Speaker 11: seen cabinet sub cabinet members who required Senate confirmation, investadors
Speaker 11: wind up not getting through a confirmation, it's mostly personal issues.
Speaker 11: It's not paying taxes, having a nanny that is undocumented
Speaker 11: and not paying taxes, you know, personal issues related to
Speaker 11: the law. It's very rarely lack of experience in plethora
Speaker 11: of cabinet members who've served well, who you know, were
Speaker 11: sort of thrust into leadership roles and did fine. And
Speaker 11: I would say, you know, there's a very simple answer
Speaker 11: to this heg Seth question about women in the military
Speaker 11: is that's not the policy he's going to make. The
Speaker 11: White House is going to make that policy. And when
Speaker 11: you look at all the work that's been done around
Speaker 11: this transition, whether it's you know, AFPI, you know a
Speaker 11: thing tank that's been writing on this twenty twenty five,
Speaker 11: none of them have been recommending taking women out of
Speaker 11: combat roles. And so I'd be high I'd be very
Speaker 11: surprised if the White House, you know, is going to
Speaker 11: adopt a Heggseth view, or if Hegseth's going to adopt
Speaker 11: the White House view, which is his job. So look,
Speaker 11: there are a lot of controversial people in this cabinet.
Speaker 11: Tulsi Gabbert's comments about Syria and Iran and Russia much
Speaker 11: more sort of inflammatory than that. And you know, RFK Junior.
Speaker 2: Let's not even go there.
Speaker 11: We'd have one hundred days of talking about every controversy
Speaker 11: over mark he's had in the healthcare field that will
Speaker 11: now relate to his tenure as head of HHF. So
Speaker 11: there's plenty to chew on here, but I doubt if
Speaker 11: any of it's going to rise to the level of disqualification.
Speaker 2: How about Pam Bondi Genie. This is the name, of course,
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump announced shortly after Matt Gates withdrew for
Speaker 2: Attorney general, first female Attorney general in Florida elected in
Speaker 2: twenty ten, tried unsuccessfully to overturn the Affordable Care Act,
Speaker 2: declined to take legal action against Trump University, and served
Speaker 2: on the team defending Donald Trump in his first impeachment.
Speaker 2: If Matt Gates was the man to break or shake
Speaker 2: up the DOJ, what will she mean for the agency?
Speaker 8: You know, she has a much stronger record obviously eight
Speaker 8: years to your point, as an ag of one of
Speaker 8: the largest states in the country, she's been a prosecutor
Speaker 8: for men years. But as it pertains to America first,
Speaker 8: she very much seems to, at least as far as
Speaker 8: we know, agree with Matt Gates. So there will be
Speaker 8: plenty of questions for her, but of course she doesn't
Speaker 8: come with all the baggage. You didn't mention, Joe that
Speaker 8: people are starting to call her legally Blondie, which maybe
Speaker 8: the moniker that sticks with her. But I think she
Speaker 8: is probably unless something comes out that we don't know
Speaker 8: about yet, going to sail through this confirmation process and
Speaker 8: she is going to be able to work to do
Speaker 8: the bidding of Donald Trump in the way that Matt
Speaker 8: Gates had talked about. But without all that baggage, it's
Speaker 8: not going to impede her confirmation process as far as
Speaker 8: we can tell.
Speaker 3: Did it have to be another person from Florida? Ricky
Speaker 3: replaced Florida with Florida after you've already pulled from Florida before.
Speaker 3: What's all this about.
Speaker 11: It's going to be awful tough to get a reservation
Speaker 11: in a Palm Beach restaurant by the time this group
Speaker 11: uses first brick.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 11: No, Look, I mean I think she's the maybe sixth
Speaker 11: resident of Florida to be appointed to the cabinet or
Speaker 11: a sub cabinet level and a former employee of Brian Ballard,
Speaker 11: who I think you know, premier lobbyist in Florida, Susie
Speaker 11: Wiles partner, and it looks like he's going to have
Speaker 11: quite a franchise in Washington, d C. Over the course
Speaker 11: of the next four years. So yeah, it's definitely a
Speaker 11: Florida centric administration. And better make your Christmas plans early
Speaker 11: if you plan to get a hotel room down in
Speaker 11: Palm Beach.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we started calling Florida like southern Florida Wall Street South.
Speaker 3: It's going to be Pennsylvania Avenue.
Speaker 2: South also, that's right, the Breakers.
Speaker 3: Or maybe the White House is Florida North in I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with that. We need some palm trees in
Speaker 2: our life. It's getting chillier in here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was snowing in Washington earlier today. I don't
Speaker 3: know if Rick Davis and Genie Schanzy who got to
Speaker 3: experience it, but we're glad as always to experience another
Speaker 3: conversation with our signature political panel.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
Speaker 2: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,
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Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern
Speaker 2: at bloomberg dot com,