Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back everybody. We are here for another
Speaker 2: episode of Comeback Stories. So by acknowledging and honoring the
Speaker 2: month of October as mental health awareness Month, we are
Speaker 2: going to dive deep today on this topic with our guests,
Speaker 2: former Major leaguer turned mental health advocate Drew Robinson. So
Speaker 2: I first learned about Drew from the ESPN documentary Alive,
Speaker 2: The Drew Robinson Story, and since then our relationship has
Speaker 2: been coach client and I just consider him one of
Speaker 2: my close friends. He's been on our podcast before, but
Speaker 2: his story and what he's doing today in the world
Speaker 2: is absolutely worthy of a round two. So welcome back
Speaker 2: to the show, Drew Robinson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate it, man, I'm looking forward to it. I
Speaker 3: was pumped when he reached out. Always good catching up
Speaker 3: with you guys talking shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. There's a few guests that I think,
Speaker 2: you know, are worthy of every season coming on and
Speaker 2: just as your story obviously, but you're one of our
Speaker 2: friends and you're just a huge inspiration to vote thereon
Speaker 2: and I I mean my personal opinion, I don't know
Speaker 2: of a better comeback story on this planet than the
Speaker 2: one that you have, and that will we'll hear some
Speaker 2: and maybe we won't tell the whole story, so they
Speaker 2: can go back and listen to your initial episode. But
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean just the comeback in itself,
Speaker 2: and I'll let you get into that a little bit.
Speaker 2: But most importantly, like what you're doing it, what you're
Speaker 2: doing with it now and how many lives you're impacting
Speaker 2: and saving is just it. It's amazing, man. I'm so
Speaker 2: proud of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I appreciate it. It's always nice to get those
Speaker 3: words of encouragement and reminders. I feel like I have
Speaker 3: a good fuel source of my own. But it's always
Speaker 3: nice hearing those things again. It only adds to the
Speaker 3: fire of trying to use it for good and learn
Speaker 3: one of the hardest lessons and teach or just kind
Speaker 3: of share some of the lessons learned from it. So
Speaker 3: it's always nice to be reiterated.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm going to go right into coaching
Speaker 2: mode with you and ask you how did it? What
Speaker 2: came up for you as you were getting acknowledge there,
Speaker 2: Like how did that feel? If you're being honest?
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I just think whether we like to admit
Speaker 3: it or not, no matter where we're at in our journey,
Speaker 3: we all like words of affirmation. We all like external validation.
Speaker 3: So I've experienced searching for that. To an extreme word,
Speaker 3: it actually becomes detrimental, but just kind of feeling like
Speaker 3: that that validation just kind of like I said that,
Speaker 3: those feel goods, feeling proud of myself seeing whatever work
Speaker 3: I'm doing reaching some people, which is really what I'm
Speaker 3: doing for So it just kind of feeds the ego
Speaker 3: a little bit, but not too much to where it's
Speaker 3: running my life. So it just kind of feels good
Speaker 3: to hear from others, especially if someone I respect so much.
Speaker 2: So, how are you doing, Like, how's your comeback going?
Speaker 2: What have you been up to since since last time
Speaker 2: we talked on the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going well, It's been a lot, but like
Speaker 3: I said, my life has definitely changed and changed for
Speaker 3: the better.
Speaker 4: But I'm good.
Speaker 3: I think it's been fun to take time to reflect,
Speaker 3: take time to talk about it openly like this, because
Speaker 3: it really just kind of enforces reinforces all the lessons
Speaker 3: I'm trying to learn and trying to seek more clearly
Speaker 3: for myself.
Speaker 4: So I'm doing well. There's times where I get to
Speaker 4: have to learn or have to relearn the same lessons.
Speaker 3: But I think overall, I'm enjoying the fruits of my
Speaker 3: mental health labor or fruits of my work by putting
Speaker 3: in the healing work, and I'm being able to find
Speaker 3: a little bit more clarity, a little bit more stability,
Speaker 3: a little bit more perspective each day.
Speaker 2: When you talk about lessons that might be being repeated,
Speaker 2: like what's could you give me an example or an
Speaker 2: instance of like a lesson that maybe you're not learning
Speaker 2: that keeps repeating itself, that keeps showing up in life
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we're going to start with that one,
Speaker 3: But no, I think I think the most common one
Speaker 3: that comes in big and small waves is just the
Speaker 3: idea of control. I'm constantly having to be reminding myself
Speaker 3: or reframing the idea of like letting go at times
Speaker 3: and not having to control or obsessively control every little
Speaker 3: niok and cranny in my life, every circumstance, every scenario,
Speaker 3: everything I'm doing and try to make it exactly how
Speaker 3: I want.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many times I journal or
Speaker 3: tell people or think to myself. The quote that you
Speaker 3: and I work on so much is which is detached
Speaker 3: from any expect outcome. So I think the lesson of
Speaker 3: just like letting go and not need always to be
Speaker 3: in control and trusting God, trusting the universe, trusting myself
Speaker 3: that things will just kind of work out, and creating
Speaker 3: a little bit more of that space for peace in
Speaker 3: my mind. For those I don't know, those tedious everyday
Speaker 3: occurrences that I sometimes trip up, tripover.
Speaker 2: So for the audience that maybe has not heard your story,
Speaker 2: how do we condense this? So I definitely recommend anybody
Speaker 2: that's listening, because you're not going to get the full story.
Speaker 2: You're gonna want to listen to it on the first
Speaker 2: episode we had with Drew, and then you can also
Speaker 2: check out his ESPN documentary Alive. I would listen to
Speaker 2: it on our podcast first and then watch the show.
Speaker 2: I think it'll be a good I think we dove
Speaker 2: pretty deep, and I love the emotion that was that
Speaker 2: came along for that first episode that we did together.
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe you can just give us I don't know,
Speaker 2: is there a cliff Notes version of your story?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good idea of listening to something
Speaker 3: before him, because my articulation and my understanding has gotten
Speaker 3: so much deeper than when I did that initial filming.
Speaker 3: So having some more context going into it, with the
Speaker 3: visuals and more of the professional setup, I think does help.
Speaker 3: I know it's helped me when I rewatched at times.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess the condensed version. I I'm from
Speaker 3: Las Vegas. I grew up playing sports my whole life,
Speaker 3: and I was always undersized and had an older brother
Speaker 3: that was the exact opposite, who was like the prodigy
Speaker 3: of his age group his whole life, and kind of
Speaker 3: growing up in his shadow. Growing up trying to keep
Speaker 3: up with him and just trying to prove myself just
Speaker 3: kind of set me up for not feeling like good
Speaker 3: enough at times. And when I did eventually hit my
Speaker 3: growth spurt, which was pretty late, I and You got
Speaker 3: lucky enough to become be drafted by the Texas Rangers
Speaker 3: out of high school, that like, still not good enough,
Speaker 3: still kind of in the shadow of somebody or something.
Speaker 3: The comparison, the insecurities, the people pleasing. All these things
Speaker 3: that I kind of naturally learned throughout my childhood followed
Speaker 3: me into my adulthood, and I was lucky enough to
Speaker 3: play parts of twelve professional seasons, with parts of three
Speaker 3: of them at the major league level and achieved my
Speaker 3: childhood dream. But my career and really my life path
Speaker 3: turned into another example of helpings didn't always go as planned,
Speaker 3: and I've learned now that that's not always such a
Speaker 3: bad thing, but in the moment, that wasn't necessarily case.
Speaker 3: And a couple current events that I called the three
Speaker 3: Ingredients for rest of a disaster that happened leading up
Speaker 3: to the quarantine in twenty twenty got me to really
Speaker 3: dark place mentally and emotionally, and I was able to
Speaker 3: convince myself my life wasn't worth living anymore, and unfortunately
Speaker 3: attempted suicide in April of twenty twenty and fortunately survived,
Speaker 3: had an awakening, committed my life and myself to finding
Speaker 3: the healing, finding the support, and asking for help for
Speaker 3: real for once, maybe a comeback to baseball afterwards, And
Speaker 3: since then, I've just been doing anything I can to
Speaker 3: try to help people learn from my mistake or my
Speaker 3: lesson learned, whatever way they want to look at it.
Speaker 3: I just my goal is to just try to help
Speaker 3: anyone not feel the way I felt or experience things
Speaker 3: I experienced internally beforehand, and let them know that I
Speaker 3: could have been I could be doing this, I could
Speaker 3: have found this healing, this journey without the attempt to
Speaker 3: attach my name. So I'm really just trying to heal
Speaker 3: out loud to prevent others from dying silently.
Speaker 5: Man Drew, I appreciate you as always just being the
Speaker 5: man that you are in a time that we get
Speaker 5: to talk or spend Man, and I hope people can
Speaker 5: see from this episode and you coming back to the
Speaker 5: show that you have an amazing comeback and an amazing story,
Speaker 5: but it doesn't just end right there that you're still
Speaker 5: continuing to learn. You're still continuing to live. And just
Speaker 5: like with Donnie and I with the show, we feel
Speaker 5: like with comeback stories, like the meaning of this show
Speaker 5: is evolving some like not only is it the comeback
Speaker 5: story bouncing back from your adversity, but the idea of
Speaker 5: like keep coming back, like no matter what it is
Speaker 5: that's in your life that you're going up against, like
Speaker 5: keep coming back to your practices, keep coming back to
Speaker 5: your center. You know what I'm saying. And I look
Speaker 5: at the shirt that you're wearing right now, it says KFG.
Speaker 5: If you want to elaborate on on what that means,
Speaker 5: and also, you know, how does that apply to your
Speaker 5: life today? What are you still trying to to keep
Speaker 5: going through?
Speaker 4: Yeah? KFG.
Speaker 3: Just it's acronym for keep having going, Yeah, yeah, keep
Speaker 3: sucking going. It's just a blunt reminder, a little aggressive reminders,
Speaker 3: keep going, whether I'm feeling some type of way of
Speaker 3: that day or not. Just another one of my pieces
Speaker 3: of apparel that has little reminders on it. But I
Speaker 3: love that that statement I questioned because that's probably the
Speaker 3: other main lesson that I am reminded of often is.
Speaker 4: That it is a continuous process.
Speaker 3: It's not a the switch that goes off that one
Speaker 3: day I wake up healed, or I find a new
Speaker 3: connection or new meaning to something or learning lesson and
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden I have it. It's like
Speaker 3: not a tool that I just kind of obtained. It's
Speaker 3: a continuous thing. And I just like to always think
Speaker 3: about the concept of like, it's not healed or fixed
Speaker 3: like the ed to any word. It's the ig part
Speaker 3: of healing, fixing and learning, growing all these things, because
Speaker 3: at one point in my journey after my attempt, when
Speaker 3: I had a very controlled environment. There wasn't much on
Speaker 3: my plate because I was just physically healing at that
Speaker 3: time and people were taking care of me physically and emotionally.
Speaker 3: There was a time where I was naively believing that
Speaker 3: I was never going to have a bad day again.
Speaker 3: How could I if I ever started feel something, I
Speaker 3: just look back to my my near death experience in
Speaker 3: survival experience, and whatever I'm going through can't be that bad,
Speaker 3: so I never have a bad day again. But these
Speaker 3: last two and a half years, I've learned that that's
Speaker 3: not the case, and I've try to teach myself, learn myself,
Speaker 3: and try to help others learn that once you commit
Speaker 3: this could commit yourself to these things, it really is
Speaker 3: a never ending journey, and it becomes an empowering journey
Speaker 3: instead of a daunting journey. And it's something that I
Speaker 3: find a lot of joy and for filming in, although
Speaker 3: at times it does get incredibly overwhelming and stressful, but
Speaker 3: that's also all part of it as well.
Speaker 2: What are some of your tools I know you have.
Speaker 2: I know you're armed, and you've been doing a ton
Speaker 2: of work to sharpen these tools and have them readily
Speaker 2: available in your toolbox. But you know, dere Darren and
Speaker 2: I and Drew and I, we talk a lot about
Speaker 2: pattern interrupts and how everything is really our where our
Speaker 2: tension goes, where our tension goes, energy flows, and so
Speaker 2: what works for you, like what has been working for
Speaker 2: you as far as those little tools where you can
Speaker 2: redirect your focus and look at your t shirt or
Speaker 2: some of the deeper, more extensive or intensive work that
Speaker 2: you've done around healing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the deeper one that I'm incredibly proud
Speaker 3: of is just dedicating or committing to therapy work. I
Speaker 3: find a lot of pride and joy fulfillment, passion and
Speaker 3: committing to that. These last three and a half years,
Speaker 3: I maybe have gone one time where I've gone longer
Speaker 3: than a week in between sessions, and I just make
Speaker 3: it a non negotiable that I'm going to go to
Speaker 3: therapy and talk about it openly and brag about it
Speaker 3: and continue to learn from it and explore it in
Speaker 3: those sessions. And then I think the other two that
Speaker 3: I would consider a part of my trifecta for my
Speaker 3: own self care is exercise and journaling. So combination of therapy,
Speaker 3: regular exercise and journaling are like my three active go tos,
Speaker 3: and then the in the moment smaller things. Definitely our
Speaker 3: pattern interrupts, like you said, and really just like as
Speaker 3: if I'm talking to myself as a different person conversation
Speaker 3: with myself, So that internal voice talking to myself, thinking
Speaker 3: to myself, or catch trying to catch myself thinking to
Speaker 3: myself as if I'm someone that I love or something
Speaker 3: that I care about, because fortunately for me, a lot
Speaker 3: of my troubles is because I get so hard on
Speaker 3: myself and I just say like unfathomable things to myself
Speaker 3: over minor inconveniences, and I just belittle myself and I
Speaker 3: would never ever talk that way to anyone else that
Speaker 3: I care about. So trying to catch myself and talk
Speaker 3: to myself or think to myself the same way that
Speaker 3: I would to a friend who's going through something or
Speaker 3: someone I care about who made a little mistake and
Speaker 3: really helps me get back to the big picture of perspective,
Speaker 3: because a lot of times it starts with just asking
Speaker 3: a question like is this gonna disrupt your piece in
Speaker 3: five minutes or is this gonna affect things a week
Speaker 3: from now? And a lot of times the question the
Speaker 3: answer is no and allows me to kind of like
Speaker 3: relax in that moment. So pattern interrupts self talk habits
Speaker 3: and like reframing practices that just kind of take my
Speaker 3: attension off of that initial trigger are the smaller in
Speaker 3: the moment practices I like to do, and I think
Speaker 3: the combinations thats like somatic stuff. So like whenever I'm
Speaker 3: biling stress and I catch myself in those moments, usually
Speaker 3: a very innate subconscious thing that follows is a really
Speaker 3: deep breath that I'm not trying to do, but that
Speaker 3: like bigger breath and kind of reset the nervous system
Speaker 3: allows me to kind of like calm down a little
Speaker 3: bit a little bit. But at the same time, the
Speaker 3: continuous process is that I'm not great at it, but
Speaker 3: it's definitely getting better than it was three and a
Speaker 3: half years ago.
Speaker 2: When I hear about your trifecta moving, writing, talking, and
Speaker 2: it sounds like freedom, Like that's that's freedom. Right to
Speaker 2: move your body is to move stuck energy. When you're
Speaker 2: moving and breathing with purpose, your your energy can't be destroyed,
Speaker 2: but it can be shifted, right, it can be moved,
Speaker 2: And I think that's the importance of movement. I mean
Speaker 2: every morning, it's like very clear why I move my body.
Speaker 2: It's all for my mind. It's so that I can
Speaker 2: be free from myself, ultimately just getting out of my
Speaker 2: own way. But moving writing. We've talked a lot about
Speaker 2: on our show about journaling, how the process of it's
Speaker 2: getting out what's inside of you, because if you don't
Speaker 2: get it out, it's going to turn on you and
Speaker 2: eat you up from the inside out. So there's the
Speaker 2: writing component and then there's the talking component of it.
Speaker 2: So I think it's cool that I'm just weaving in this.
Speaker 2: I heard the word freedom as you talked about those
Speaker 2: three and I think also the quote of to be
Speaker 2: free is to free others. And I look at Darren
Speaker 2: and I look at you, Drew, and it's like, this
Speaker 2: is what you guys are doing in your life, through
Speaker 2: the mess and through the pain. So I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if I even have a question in there, but I
Speaker 2: just I really want to well first acknowledge the both
Speaker 2: of you, but I think like this is really what
Speaker 2: sets us free. Would you guys agree?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the word release came to mind when
Speaker 3: you're talking about freedom. Those acts that I do or
Speaker 3: those acts that I do are really just a space
Speaker 3: to allow me to release a lot of those things
Speaker 3: or be more free because one quote that one of
Speaker 3: our team psychologists always says that the body always keeps score.
Speaker 3: So if you're not getting it out, if you're not
Speaker 3: purging it, all the ugliness, all the unorganizedness, your body's
Speaker 3: going to remember it so that next minor inconvenience you
Speaker 3: might react disproportionately to the inconvenience because your body is
Speaker 3: storing all those things from the past, and you might
Speaker 3: just have a blow up over something so small, which
Speaker 3: I say you or other people might, when really it's like,
Speaker 3: that's what happens with me. So if I'm not releasing
Speaker 3: those things in my journal in therapy, no matter how
Speaker 3: irrational or dramatic I feel it might be, when I
Speaker 3: release it in those safe spaces, it allows me to
Speaker 3: have a little bit more free up space to react
Speaker 3: or respond in a way that I'm more okay with
Speaker 3: or not as triggered with. And I really think the
Speaker 3: intention of past it too is so important. Like the
Speaker 3: exercise part, Like the intention that I have with my
Speaker 3: exercise has completely shifted from when I was eighteen just
Speaker 3: trying to look good without a shirt like I do it,
Speaker 3: like you said, for my mental health, for my stability
Speaker 3: and my emotional stamina. So trying to create some adversity,
Speaker 3: intentional adversity, to try to be present. If I'm not present,
Speaker 3: I might get hurt if I'm not paying attention, having
Speaker 3: to turn off the noise of putting my phone down,
Speaker 3: all those things, All the intention that I put into
Speaker 3: my or what I think I'm doing it for, is
Speaker 3: way different than it was ten years ago, Drew.
Speaker 5: I I think of you. I think of you pretty
Speaker 5: often when I think of myself, and I want to
Speaker 5: know how you feel about this, Like me being somebody
Speaker 5: who's like on the front lines for recovery, us and
Speaker 5: mice on the front lines for mental health. You know,
Speaker 5: people are looking to us for inspiration. We've had, you know,
Speaker 5: great feats in you know, mental strength, mental toughness. Do you.
Speaker 5: I sometimes can feel like whenever there's like a slip
Speaker 5: in my routines or any time whereas like mentally I
Speaker 5: don't really feel that strong. I kind of feel all
Speaker 5: over the place. I kind of feel like a fraud
Speaker 5: because I'm kind of like the guy that's out front.
Speaker 5: You know, leading the charge like do you do you
Speaker 5: feel that way? Like how do you if you do,
Speaker 5: how do you keep yourself from dwelling in that space
Speaker 5: for so long? I'm asking for me because sometimes I
Speaker 5: find myself caught in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's something that's obviously it's a new like
Speaker 3: ripple to the concept. That's something I've been doing my
Speaker 3: whole life is guilt trip myself for all kinds of things.
Speaker 3: But this, this new part of my identity that is
Speaker 3: attached to me definitely has allowed or created a new
Speaker 3: level of or new concept of guilt tripping myself into
Speaker 3: how dare you feel down? Or how dare you feel stressed?
Speaker 3: Or how dare you feel ungrateful? Or whatever the negative
Speaker 3: thought is when you survive what you survive, or you.
Speaker 4: Have what you have, or you're.
Speaker 3: Living a life that you're living, and that like internal
Speaker 3: monster just beats me down. It makes me feel so
Speaker 3: I don't know, regretful or guilty for feeling down ever.
Speaker 3: But that's where the work comes in, the fruits of
Speaker 3: my labor comes in of understanding that the acceptance part
Speaker 3: or just like anything, all the concept I'm learning is
Speaker 3: adding up to the idea of knowing that I can't
Speaker 3: expect myself to be at my one hundred percent best
Speaker 3: every second of every day, and that's okay, Like this
Speaker 3: is just a temporary feeling. Having that understanding has allowed
Speaker 3: me to get through so many times of uncertainty or
Speaker 3: just internal struggle or extreme internal struggle because it's so
Speaker 3: applicable to a lot of scenarios. So just kind of
Speaker 3: understanding that it's temporary. But like you said, I say
Speaker 3: these things as if I'm not struggling with them at times,
Speaker 3: But there is that little voice in the back of
Speaker 3: my head that is trying to tell me the things
Speaker 3: that I've learned, or try to help me reinforce the
Speaker 3: things that I've learned to help them not feel as
Speaker 3: severe in those moments.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's something I definitely still struggle with.
Speaker 3: I I talk a lot about how for twenty seven
Speaker 3: years I became a vet at pessimism and ugliness and
Speaker 3: being mean to myself. So I really am still just
Speaker 3: a three year rookie, yet becoming a little bit more
Speaker 3: loving and caring and accepting of myself and allowing some
Speaker 3: of this the stuff to shine through. But it doesn't
Speaker 3: always happen as efficiently as I would like. But it's
Speaker 3: all part of it, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, man, that's a good way to pick
Speaker 5: to paint the picture. It's like I mean, at least
Speaker 5: in my sobriety slash spiritual slash mental health journey, I'm
Speaker 5: six years old, so that makes me like a first grader,
Speaker 5: and I'm first graders are just kind of still scattered
Speaker 5: all over the place sometimes, so exactly, I love that picture.
Speaker 2: I think that I really forget it.
Speaker 4: It's like another language.
Speaker 3: It's like when I'm if I were to try to
Speaker 3: learn a full different langth which like however long it
Speaker 3: takes to learn the first like chunk of it, I
Speaker 3: don't think I would find myself like judging myself for
Speaker 3: not knowing right away. So it's all about the learning processes,
Speaker 3: like thinking that in terms of time. It's like like
Speaker 3: you said, at some point I would if I try
Speaker 3: to learn French, at some point I would be speaking
Speaker 3: on the same level as a four year old. But
Speaker 3: in that moment, I probably are that example, I probably
Speaker 3: want to judge myself or guilt trip myself for not
Speaker 3: being great at it right away. But I do that
Speaker 3: when I'm having an off day with the best of them,
Speaker 3: to be honest facts.
Speaker 2: I think first graders can bring a level of curiosity
Speaker 2: and a willingness to want to learn at the same time.
Speaker 2: And I mean clearly you guys have both done that
Speaker 2: and are constantly looking at ways that you can learn
Speaker 2: and grow and level up your life, both on the field,
Speaker 2: on the stage off the field. But Drew, I wanted
Speaker 2: to go back because I talk about this so Darren
Speaker 2: and I talk about this so often on the PODCAS
Speaker 2: cast about comeback stories and the stories that we tell ourselves,
Speaker 2: and before I met you, I would give this extreme
Speaker 2: example of like the only thing that matters is the
Speaker 2: story that we tell ourselves. And so you know when
Speaker 2: you came into my life and I hold, I heard
Speaker 2: your story, maybe you can walk us through this part
Speaker 2: of your decision to attempt was like what when did
Speaker 2: this story start? Like do you remember one time saying
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to live or I want
Speaker 2: to kill myself? And then like can you just walk
Speaker 2: us through like how normal that day was because this
Speaker 2: is just what you said you were going to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I I can pinpoint on a pinpoint,
Speaker 3: but I can just think back to really early days
Speaker 3: of childhood of just reacting same way, similar way as
Speaker 3: to how I reacted react to things as a grown
Speaker 3: adult now. So I think it's always kind of been
Speaker 3: an under lying pattern that's been there. I think one
Speaker 3: of my biggest things was just my insecurity with myself
Speaker 3: of just comparison. Started with comparing baseball player to baseball
Speaker 3: player and being trying to be a better baseball player.
Speaker 3: But the more the deeper I die, the more I
Speaker 3: realize I'm doing that in every other area of my
Speaker 3: life too, So I think that was a huge contributor
Speaker 3: which led to insecurity of self esteem and just overall confidence.
Speaker 3: And to make up for that, I would try to
Speaker 3: put on a front of what I thought confidence was
Speaker 3: when anyone was looking, so then I would have to
Speaker 3: deal with the consequences of that of not being my
Speaker 3: authentic self. So when the when I stepped out of
Speaker 3: the spotlight or stuff got home, then I would just
Speaker 3: feel unauthentic and just like not proud of myself. So
Speaker 3: then I would have to deal with that that down
Speaker 3: feeling of guilt and just being a fraud or imposter
Speaker 3: or whatever. But yeah, I think all those things led
Speaker 3: to a lot of people pleasing as well to try
Speaker 3: to make sure that Poli liked to me because I
Speaker 3: was insecure with all those things, and that just created
Speaker 3: this big compilation of just unhealthy attachments to every life
Speaker 3: experience that I was going through, and yeah, for me,
Speaker 3: it eventually just got to a point where I was
Speaker 3: I had I had thought at different times in my life.
Speaker 3: I remember a time, probably like around twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: there was a time where I was like, actually, I
Speaker 3: realized I was thinking about suicide.
Speaker 4: Not in as active as a way as.
Speaker 3: I was in twenty twenty, but there was definitely a
Speaker 3: couple moments throughout my life where I did have a pretty.
Speaker 4: Blunt question like what's the fing point here?
Speaker 3: But it wasn't until February of twenty twenty after that
Speaker 3: second ingredient, like I mentioned earlier, of at that time,
Speaker 3: I called off an engagement to someone who cared about
Speaker 3: me and I cared about her, and I felt like
Speaker 3: I had ruined someone else's life and ruined someone else's peace,
Speaker 3: not just myself. So I saw the consequences of my
Speaker 3: internal world a role in someone else's and that really
Speaker 3: just created the ball to be rolling down that moment
Speaker 3: that hill towards the end, and basically like February third,
Speaker 3: the day after I called the engagement, I.
Speaker 4: Had the first thought like what am I? Like?
Speaker 3: It would be so much easier if I just didn't
Speaker 3: have to deal with this, and the only way that
Speaker 3: I can think of is taking my life. And from
Speaker 3: that moment on until April of twenty twenty April sixteenth,
Speaker 3: it was basically on my mind ninety nine percent of time,
Speaker 3: and like you said, because there was something I decided
Speaker 3: to do at some point the day of it really
Speaker 3: did it. Really was the most casual way that someone
Speaker 3: can probably picture such a severe thing to do it
Speaker 3: to be happening. So I wasn't planning on doing it
Speaker 3: the night before. I just kind of woke up and
Speaker 3: did it the same or I was going throughout the
Speaker 3: day like it normally was at that point before, just
Speaker 3: having combative thoughts, wondering how I could do it, if
Speaker 3: I should do it, why I should do it, and
Speaker 3: then just some point in the afternoon I was like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm doing it, and then it was no
Speaker 3: emotional build up. It was really more like a relief,
Speaker 3: like I'm finally going to be out of my pain
Speaker 3: and there was no like, oh my gosh, it's happening,
Speaker 3: or an emotional cinematic build up. It was just a
Speaker 3: very casual thing, just like I did anything else in
Speaker 3: my life, which is really one of the more comfortable
Speaker 3: parts of my story when I think about it. But
Speaker 3: that's just kind of the reality of it. And it
Speaker 3: was because I was just so exhausted at that point
Speaker 3: from my racing thoughts.
Speaker 2: So what happens after you pull the trigger?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: I mean, that is the most confusing thing ever. But
Speaker 3: that's where that let go concept, like I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: comes into play in the most extreme, very way, or
Speaker 3: the heaviest level possible. Is not having to know why
Speaker 3: other than just trusting in God, trusting the universe that
Speaker 3: I don't know why. But I was looking at something,
Speaker 3: I pulled the trigger, and then I was still looking
Speaker 3: at it afterwards, thinking I missed, thinking it was a
Speaker 3: blank round, just thinking maybe it takes longer than what
Speaker 3: I've seen in the movies, and just being completely confused
Speaker 3: and not knowing what's going on. So just sitting there
Speaker 3: for the next twenty hours waiting for the end to happen,
Speaker 3: and when it eventually didn't finally had that big picture
Speaker 3: moment of like maybe I'm supposed to survive this, or
Speaker 3: maybe not even supposed to at that point is more
Speaker 3: like maybe I want to survive this, so let me
Speaker 3: call for help.
Speaker 4: And yeah.
Speaker 3: It was the most confusing twenty hours, the most painful
Speaker 3: twenty or twenty hours, but the moment after my first
Speaker 3: surgery where I was stable, it was the most incredible
Speaker 3: couple hours because I finally had the most extreme version
Speaker 3: of let go ever and finally was like bloodgates open
Speaker 3: and tell people I love them, to tell people who
Speaker 3: I really am and how deeply I think about things,
Speaker 3: how deeply I care about things, and not being ashamed
Speaker 3: of it for the first time. It was a very
Speaker 3: freeing feeling. But important thing with that story is or
Speaker 3: just that that part of the story is I don't
Speaker 3: like to portray it as it needed to take that
Speaker 3: It's something that I could have been doing all along,
Speaker 3: and I could have had those exact same experiences without
Speaker 3: the attempt attached to my name. And that's why I
Speaker 3: talk about this is because I could have learned these
Speaker 3: same lessons without that. So I don't want someone to
Speaker 3: have to go through that to thinking that it's going
Speaker 3: to give them the same experience that I've had, because
Speaker 3: the reality is it's probably not going to happen like
Speaker 3: the way it did for me, because on paper, I
Speaker 3: shouldn't have survivor has arrived.
Speaker 2: So the story you had been telling yourself on the
Speaker 2: first attempt, I want to die, and you make that
Speaker 2: attempt and you don't die, and then you have an opportunity, right,
Speaker 2: gun in one hand, a phone in the other hand,
Speaker 2: sitting on the couch, the same place you attempted the
Speaker 2: first time, and then you choose, you choose to ask
Speaker 2: for help, right And then I'm sure it's like I
Speaker 2: know a lot of it's probably uh, you don't remember
Speaker 2: a lot after that, but remember waking up in the
Speaker 2: hospital and wanting to live. So then you start telling yourself,
Speaker 2: I want to live. So I guess I just want
Speaker 2: to highlight like the power of our thoughts and the
Speaker 2: stories that we tell ourselves, and like you're the way
Speaker 2: you walk us through that. Again. It's just it's so
Speaker 2: riveting and I'm so glad you're here, and I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that you've you've turned the pain into like purpose
Speaker 2: and are helping so many people listening to you on
Speaker 2: the podcast with uh Ryan on the Pivot, I'm like,
Speaker 2: who is this dude? Just like the way that you
Speaker 2: are to articulate things, right, But I think it's beautiful
Speaker 2: because for all three of us, you know, we get
Speaker 2: to kind of teach this stuff back. And they say
Speaker 2: the quickest way to learn something is to teach it back.
Speaker 2: So we're talking about this stuff all day long, every day.
Speaker 2: But to hear you and to hear like just the
Speaker 2: way you are we're articulating things, and how great of
Speaker 2: a speaker you've become. Like yeah, you're you're, you're, you're
Speaker 2: set up for life because of your your failed attempts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think it's because of the work after
Speaker 3: the failed attempt. Like I said, I don't like to
Speaker 3: give credit to the actual attempt, but yeah, I think
Speaker 3: it's it's just another reminder, another example, like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: of how things don't always have to go as planned,
Speaker 3: because I mean four years ago, if I had an interview,
Speaker 3: I was always the backup or not a pretty non
Speaker 3: factor in any big league game. But there was media everywhere,
Speaker 3: So there was times where I was being interviewed after
Speaker 3: the game with one little like phone camera or like
Speaker 3: a makeshift microphone, or like being asked to go talk
Speaker 3: to the youth baseball team before the game, and like
Speaker 3: I couldn't speak. I was so insecure that I had
Speaker 3: a stutter in those times. I didn't have a stutter in.
Speaker 4: Regular life, but like a regular day to day life.
Speaker 3: But like as soon as the camera got on me,
Speaker 3: as soon as I got in front of a group
Speaker 3: and talk how to talk to anybody other than like
Speaker 3: my close friends or teammates or baseball personnel, I would
Speaker 3: start stuttering because I was so afraid of saying the
Speaker 3: wrong thing or messing up. And not to brag, but
Speaker 3: like now I'm speaking as a public speaker at times,
Speaker 3: and it's like just another sign of how like you
Speaker 3: can improve in things, you can release things to get better,
Speaker 3: to learn. It's just one of those another one of
Speaker 3: those reminders that like never saying every kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And if someone would have told me four years ago
Speaker 3: that would be doing anything close to what I've been
Speaker 3: up to the last three years, I would have honestly
Speaker 3: laughed at them. But yeah, I think it's just something
Speaker 3: that's I don't know, something I just like, like I
Speaker 3: said earlier, trying to heal it loud, diferent others from
Speaker 3: dying silently. And really, what I'm doing is just like
Speaker 3: you said, just teaching what I'm or preaching what I've
Speaker 3: been taught from people like you and Darren and my
Speaker 3: psychiatrist and anyone else who's willing to kind of get
Speaker 3: deep with me, and just trying to share that with
Speaker 3: anyone else who's willing to listen.
Speaker 5: Due, I want to know what what what has it
Speaker 5: been like? I know you had a relationship with and
Speaker 5: working for the giants and being alongside their journey. What
Speaker 5: was it like for you to be in that mental
Speaker 5: health role and have a relationship ship with guys on
Speaker 5: the team? Cause I know, like, if I'm putting myself
Speaker 5: in your shoes, my mind's going to be like okay,
Speaker 5: Like I want to build connection with these guys, But
Speaker 5: how do I like not overdo it. How do I
Speaker 5: not like overstep and like barge into their space, but
Speaker 5: at the same time like be there for them, be
Speaker 5: a resource for them? Like how did you grow to
Speaker 5: find comfortability in that role?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I'm still learning how to do that, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I think the first year I really found myself where
Speaker 3: I look back and see that I was really holding
Speaker 3: back because of that concept, like I don't want to
Speaker 3: just coming hot as a mental health guy and just
Speaker 3: talking nonsense and making it look like I'm just doing
Speaker 3: my job and trying and check a box, even though
Speaker 3: I genuinely cared about trying to help. I didn't want
Speaker 3: to just be a one trick pony. So I try
Speaker 3: to keep it casual. I try not to be the
Speaker 3: inconvenience that I was making up in my head. But
Speaker 3: I think I really just find a blend of just
Speaker 3: being one of the guys, just being another baseball mind,
Speaker 3: but blending some of those those questions or those talks
Speaker 3: in those everyday conversation, because I think that's the most
Speaker 3: important part when it comes to months of health workers.
Speaker 3: Like for me, one of my biggest missions is just
Speaker 3: making it a casual thing where it's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: asking about how your night was last night we're at
Speaker 3: the field, or asking about your nice pair of shoes,
Speaker 3: and then just letting you know really quickly and like
Speaker 3: the most casual way, like, man, those are nice shoes
Speaker 3: and blah blah, but hey, also like just a reminder,
Speaker 3: like if you ever need anything, I'm here, and then
Speaker 3: that let's go take around balls like just a quick
Speaker 3: little seed planting and just try to blend it in
Speaker 3: there and not come in so so hot as like
Speaker 3: a fake professional or someone who's got all the answers,
Speaker 3: Just like I'm in the trenches with you and I'm
Speaker 3: willing to kind of talk it through or listen or
Speaker 3: analyze or whatever you might need. But I'm not gonna,
Speaker 3: you know, force it on you. But I am going
Speaker 3: to mix in reminders here and there because it's important
Speaker 3: and for me, I there was times where I was
Speaker 3: feeling a certain way but showing that I was totally fine.
Speaker 3: So someone who might not be showing symptoms could be
Speaker 3: going through the thick.
Speaker 4: Of their depression or anxiety or whatever it might be
Speaker 4: that time.
Speaker 3: So quick little reminders, quick little seed planting that I'm
Speaker 3: ready now, or I'm ready a month from now, a
Speaker 3: year from now, just whatever you need. I care about you,
Speaker 3: and then can also talk chopped about literally anything else.
Speaker 2: There's a line in your suicide letter that I know
Speaker 2: you wrote that you say, I hope you guys realize
Speaker 2: you couldn't have seen this coming to prevent it because
Speaker 2: of how hard I was trying to hide it, and
Speaker 2: I want you to touch on that. I think that's powerful.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're talking to everybody or your family there,
Speaker 2: but just the quiet crisis that happens, and the importance
Speaker 2: of people like yourself speaking out on mental health and
Speaker 2: in a sense kind of normalizing it and breaking the stigma.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's really like I was trying to
Speaker 3: hide it, and also just how ashamed I was to
Speaker 3: be feeling that way or thinking that way.
Speaker 4: I again, on.
Speaker 3: Paper, I analytically, my analytical brain was not allowing me
Speaker 3: to feel the way I was feeling because of the
Speaker 3: circumstances I live and I had.
Speaker 4: Even though I.
Speaker 3: Wasn't exactly where I wanted to be in my career,
Speaker 3: I was pretty close. I had a supportive family even
Speaker 3: though they were separated. Like on paper, I had something.
Speaker 3: I had a life that a lot of people would
Speaker 3: die for. So how dare I feel the way I
Speaker 3: was feeling? So it wasn't It was a blend of
Speaker 3: me trying to hide that feeling but also just being
Speaker 3: too ashamed to share it because I was afraid of
Speaker 3: being misunderstood or judged for feeling that way while living
Speaker 3: that life. But yeah, it's something that, like I said,
Speaker 3: creates that obstacle that I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: feel at times. And the message is just like not
Speaker 3: being as a shamed because at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: something I've learned so often these last three years after
Speaker 3: speaking out about this stuff is it doesn't matter the age,
Speaker 3: or the group or the some one I'm talking to,
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter who they are, where they're from, age, sex, whatever.
Speaker 3: We're all so much more like than we realized. So
Speaker 3: it's like, if someone's really going to be honest with
Speaker 3: you and non judgementsil they.
Speaker 4: Will be able to tell you that they have felt.
Speaker 3: A similar way, just on a different level, from a
Speaker 3: completely different external circumstance. So not being ashamed to share
Speaker 3: things that are weighing you down, because again, at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, we've all experienced stress, We've all
Speaker 3: experienced overwhelmed in some form of anxiety or worry or fear,
Speaker 3: just on completely different levels. So talking about it before
Speaker 3: again it builds up and becomes that weight or becomes
Speaker 3: something that our body is just constantly defending ourselves from
Speaker 3: is so important. So I was just too ashamed to
Speaker 3: share it because I was so terrified of being misunderstood
Speaker 3: and judged. And I knew that I had a very
Speaker 3: good group of people around me. And that's why even
Speaker 3: though and in that moment of writing that note, I
Speaker 3: still I knew it was going to be traumatizing. I
Speaker 3: knew it was going to be heartbreaking for the people
Speaker 3: that cared about me, But I was trying to do
Speaker 3: everything I could to just make it a little bit
Speaker 3: less hard in letting them know that there's no one
Speaker 3: missed anything, like no one caused this is no one else,
Speaker 3: Like this is me and my decision because of my
Speaker 3: mindset that's created this pessimistic monster, and it's not because
Speaker 3: of anybody else. So please don't feel guilty on top
Speaker 3: of any kind of grief that you're going to be feeling.
Speaker 2: It's powerful.
Speaker 6: I think there's another another quote from you that I've heard,
Speaker 6: when you're talking about vulnerability, saying like, as someone who
Speaker 6: was trying to show fake confidence your whole life.
Speaker 2: Just letting go and being vulnerable, you ended up finding
Speaker 2: the confidence you had been always dying for. And when
Speaker 2: I heard you say that, I'm like, yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: happened with me, Like, Yeah, that's what happened with Darren.
Speaker 2: I mean on a human level, people could just look
Speaker 2: at Darren as just an athlete, and you know, maybe
Speaker 2: some people do, but there's there's so much more. And
Speaker 2: it was in him share in his story, and it
Speaker 2: was in you sharing your story and yours. Dude, you
Speaker 2: were like a year like post off after your incident,
Speaker 2: right that you did that documentary and the way that
Speaker 2: you told your story, you know, a year out from that,
Speaker 2: I was like, this guy is going to like help a.
Speaker 4: Lot of people. Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I mean we did the filming like like five months afterwards.
Speaker 3: It was pretty pretty fast, pretty immediate. And that's why again,
Speaker 3: like I said, the articulation and like my own understanding
Speaker 3: of the reasonings weren't as as deep or as clear then,
Speaker 3: But that's the whole point of like continue to talk
Speaker 3: about it, because I just keep on finding deeper connections, anchors, clarity,
Speaker 3: all these things that free up understanding for my reality
Speaker 3: in any given moment. So yeah, like I said, I
Speaker 3: never would have thought, but it's something that I'm continuously
Speaker 3: trying to to to learn and help others with.
Speaker 5: I mean, as we're in a mental health awareness month,
Speaker 5: I'm somebody that you know is aware that people have
Speaker 5: their own unique battles and things they go through on
Speaker 5: a day to day basis, but as a collective whole,
Speaker 5: and how everything that is behind mental health and what
Speaker 5: all that is. What do you think is like, is
Speaker 5: there something that you can pinpoint it is something that needs
Speaker 5: to be taken to another level or something that is
Speaker 5: missing for people as they're trying to begin their mental
Speaker 5: health journey or sustain their mental health journey, is or
Speaker 5: something that sticks out to you that could use some
Speaker 5: change or could use some maintenance, some upkeep.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Again, I really think the casualness of it is so important.
Speaker 3: I think the misconception well two things, the casual like
Speaker 3: the misconception of how casual it can be, and the
Speaker 3: expectation part of it. So I think just from my
Speaker 3: own personal experience and from conversation I've had with people,
Speaker 3: is that when someone finally admits they need help or
Speaker 3: starting their own process with it, I think there is
Speaker 3: a level of expectation that they're going to be fixed
Speaker 3: or healed by just showing up or just admitting not
Speaker 3: realizing that it again is a continuous, never ending journey
Speaker 3: and at the very beginning of it that is incredibly daunting.
Speaker 3: I know at times, in the thick of one of
Speaker 3: my ways of downness, I do have a very daunting
Speaker 3: feeling attached to the work that I'm getting ready to
Speaker 3: show up to with my therapy work or a coaching
Speaker 3: call or just a conversation or a social setting. But
Speaker 3: the expectation that it's going to help me right then,
Speaker 3: I don't think necessarily serves me or serves anyone else
Speaker 3: that has that expectation, because it's unfair, it's not realistic,
Speaker 3: so it just kind of sets us up for failure.
Speaker 3: But then again the casual so that where it's like
Speaker 3: it doesn't need to be this complete lifestyle makeover overnight.
Speaker 3: You don't need to quit every bad habit, you don't
Speaker 3: need to do everything. It's like, take a small step
Speaker 3: first and create momentum to then be able to take
Speaker 3: on some of the bigger things and the bigger obstacles
Speaker 3: and the deeper healing and starting small and again implementing
Speaker 3: it in.
Speaker 4: A casual way.
Speaker 3: Like I said, it's such an easy thing to just
Speaker 3: ask how someone's doing. We do it in almost every conversation,
Speaker 3: but like actually being like no, like really like what's
Speaker 3: the last week been like for you? Or like what's
Speaker 3: been the hardest thing this last week or what's been
Speaker 3: the most fulfilling. Just create an open minded or explorate
Speaker 3: exploration kind of dialogue and if they're not ready, then
Speaker 3: that's fine too. Also detachment expectation as a support and
Speaker 3: making it more casual. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 3: gonna eat my unhealthy treats that I love to do
Speaker 3: every day. I'm gonna watch shows or watch TV. I'm
Speaker 3: not the biggest person with that, but like whatever they
Speaker 3: do that they feel like is a minor thing, but
Speaker 3: it's a consistent thing. Being able to do those things.
Speaker 3: Also being able to be that same person in whatever
Speaker 3: your social setting is, but then being able to like
Speaker 3: mix in a couple different acts and creating that momentum
Speaker 3: to make it a more casual thing, like yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: going to go to dinner night, but I got to
Speaker 3: be home soon, I got to be home early because
Speaker 3: I have a therapy session tomorrow. And then not being
Speaker 3: ashamed about it, just being like, yeah, that's the reality,
Speaker 3: no shame my game kind of thing and making it
Speaker 3: more casual instead of like I need to be Buddha
Speaker 3: tomorrow and I need to be Gandhi lie by by
Speaker 3: the end of the afternoon or otherwise it's a failure.
Speaker 3: So I think the expectation and and like making it
Speaker 3: more casual, I think is will do more work of
Speaker 3: any distigma moving the needle than like any big collective
Speaker 3: like event or thing like that.
Speaker 4: So that's where my thoughts took me with that one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's plenty of the therapy sessions. I've sat down on
Speaker 5: the couch outter and just been like like even heavier
Speaker 5: than when I went in.
Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely, Like I said, thing is like again,
Speaker 3: we all have all been there, whether it's in therapy
Speaker 3: or not, Like how many times have you come home
Speaker 3: after a stressful day or like, oh my gosh, let
Speaker 3: me just go to sleep, like everyone and anyone that
Speaker 3: says no is a liar.
Speaker 4: Like there's only two kinds of people that's like that
Speaker 4: and liars.
Speaker 3: So we're we're all experiencing a lot more things similarly
Speaker 3: than we might realize.
Speaker 2: What are you What are you hearing out there? When
Speaker 2: you go and speak and maybe you do a Q
Speaker 2: and A or people stop you afterwards, Like what's the
Speaker 2: common struggle? What are you hearing the most of from
Speaker 2: teenagers adults?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the theme I don't know about specific things,
Speaker 3: but I think the theme is just again expectations and comparisons,
Speaker 3: which maybe that sticks out to me because everyone is
Speaker 3: usually a mirror, like I don't know, I know, you
Speaker 3: guys know the concept of like everything that we're experiencing
Speaker 3: is really just the mirror of our own internal world.
Speaker 3: So maybe that's why it sticks out to me because
Speaker 3: I still struggle with those things. But expecting things to
Speaker 3: go a certain way, expect them to go your way,
Speaker 3: go perfectly, or just comparing things, and again I think
Speaker 3: that kind of just correlates with the expectation, like comparing
Speaker 3: something and expecting you to be better than that thing
Speaker 3: or be able to do something similar to that good
Speaker 3: thing or whatever, or I'm doing that worse than that thing.
Speaker 3: So I just think the theme is usually comparisons and expectations,
Speaker 3: which again two specific of expectations than anything is really
Speaker 3: just either limiting or set.
Speaker 4: You up for failure. So like, if you get what
Speaker 4: you're expecting in a way that could be limiting.
Speaker 3: There might be something better available if you weren't expecting
Speaker 3: it to go that way, So like not having such
Speaker 3: specific expectations in comparison, and it's obvious, right, like the
Speaker 3: world of social media and media in general, expecting things
Speaker 3: to be a certain way because you've seen it happen
Speaker 3: before is fair. And then comparisons to other people's lives
Speaker 3: and set ups and things like that, it's obvious, but
Speaker 3: it always seems to be an undertone of expectation or
Speaker 3: comparison to any kind of question I get when it
Speaker 3: comes to what the struggles are?
Speaker 2: What do you say to somebody where the burden of
Speaker 2: their life has gotten so heavy to where they're they're
Speaker 2: the the thoughts are starting, like what do you say
Speaker 2: to somebody? Like where do you go? What's what's what's
Speaker 2: your common response?
Speaker 3: My common My first response is just a reminder or
Speaker 3: a lesson, like if it's the first time they're hearing it,
Speaker 3: that everything is temporary. It doesn't matter how severe it feels,
Speaker 3: how heavy it feels, how drastic it is. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think that people who have like unfathomable things happen
Speaker 3: to them that are they have no control over. It's
Speaker 3: hard for me to say that to somebody because I
Speaker 3: haven't experienced that. It's all been like internal like it's
Speaker 3: been put on by myself, so it's easy for me
Speaker 3: to have that choice. But again, at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, feelings are temporary, experiences are temporary. We don't
Speaker 3: obtain success, we don't get to obtain or like memories
Speaker 3: or experiences like we don't have those things at our
Speaker 3: grasp at any time. So knowing that it's temporary, no
Speaker 3: matter how consistent it's felt, you can probably go back
Speaker 3: to ten years before that where it wasn't that exact way.
Speaker 3: So it is temporary, which I feel like kind of
Speaker 3: creates that seed or plant the seed for like some
Speaker 3: faith or that little voice in the back of my mind.
Speaker 3: I know that quote helps me is like this is temporary,
Speaker 3: like even though it might not feel very real in
Speaker 3: the moment or in the thick of like some negative thinking,
Speaker 3: but it is happening where it's like creating a little
Speaker 3: bit of like a glimmer of hope of like, okay,
Speaker 3: one always be this way, maybe tomorrow or maybe next
Speaker 3: week or maybe next next month, but it is going
Speaker 3: to end and it's worth pushing through or like the
Speaker 3: shirt says, keep going because it is temporary. So but
Speaker 3: it does take action to do that. But I think
Speaker 3: the other likeskng creet things is just that the habits
Speaker 3: that we've been talking about, whether it's finding some kind
Speaker 3: of hobby that allows a different kind of outlet, or
Speaker 3: committing to therapy, or committing to social connections and like
Speaker 3: doing some new things, or creating neuroplasticity, geather your comfort zone,
Speaker 3: whatever it may be. I think it's always just important
Speaker 3: to try new things and to have the understanding that
Speaker 3: it's temporary and like, no matter how dramatic it may feel,
Speaker 3: anyone that cares about you, or anyone that's been around
Speaker 3: you would rather hear about your the heaviness of whatever
Speaker 3: feels irrational than attend your funerals. So people would always
Speaker 3: just rally hear from you instead of about you. So
Speaker 3: temporariness hear from you instead of about you, and some
Speaker 3: kind of actionable thing that gets you out of your
Speaker 3: comfort zone to kind of switch things up.
Speaker 4: A little bit.
Speaker 5: That's a bar. That's a bar right there.
Speaker 4: That's what I end all. If anyone's listening that might
Speaker 4: be going to one of my talks.
Speaker 3: You don't need to come anymore, because that's how I
Speaker 3: that's how I drop the Mic usually is I'd rather
Speaker 3: hear from you instead about you.
Speaker 5: Man, Well, I just want to say thank you again.
Speaker 5: Like every time we get to have a conversation or
Speaker 5: or face to face man like, it's always left feeling
Speaker 5: seen and understood in a way, even if the conversation
Speaker 5: isn't super heavy or super deep, like I just that
Speaker 5: energy is there, man, and I appreciate that about you
Speaker 5: and just a real life example of continuing to write
Speaker 5: your comeback story looks like it's great sometimes, sometimes it sucks.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'm afraid. Sometimes I'm strong and courageous. So it's
Speaker 5: just like that overall picture and making it real and authentic. Man,
Speaker 5: I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I love that. I love that so much.
Speaker 4: I agree with all of it.
Speaker 3: So I honestly appreciate you guys having me. I again
Speaker 3: love talking shop with you guys and getting deep and
Speaker 3: learning new things every time we talk.
Speaker 4: So I appreciate you guys as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I sit back and just listen to Darren
Speaker 2: give you Drew some flowers, it's just cool to sit back.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I were to paint a picture of
Speaker 2: the model coaching client, I think, well, you two would
Speaker 2: be like exactly it, and and there's a reason, like
Speaker 2: I believe that the world is changed by your example,
Speaker 2: not your opinion. And you guys, you guys live this
Speaker 2: like you're living recovery, you're living mental health. You guys
Speaker 2: are out there like but most importantly, you're you're doing
Speaker 2: the work, like the dedication to your journaling practice. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Drew. Drew might have you a little bit,
Speaker 2: Darren with with with his journaling. He takes it to
Speaker 2: the next level. But then again, you got all the
Speaker 2: songwriting tied into so I'm sure you guys can tell you.
Speaker 3: But I only get to share that. I only share
Speaker 3: the ones that come out nicely. I'm not sharing the
Speaker 3: ones they are super messy and not grammatically correct. So yeah,
Speaker 3: of course I'm only going to share the ones like
Speaker 3: nicely gets to get to. He's able to do it
Speaker 3: in a three minute, quick, concise way, which is even
Speaker 3: more impressive because really, what.
Speaker 4: I just do is blobber on for pages and pages.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but regardless, I think again, it's just cool
Speaker 2: to be on here with you two. Who when I
Speaker 2: when I think about the ideal, and you know, I
Speaker 2: have this thing where many of my coaching clients turn
Speaker 2: into my closest friends. And I don't know if there's
Speaker 2: a line that's crossed there, but I don't really give
Speaker 2: a shit because I would take you guys as friends
Speaker 2: over like anything else, for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, I mean, I mean, you guys live it.
Speaker 2: And even though I might be your coach at times,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, guys are teaching me more than you'll
Speaker 2: ever know.
Speaker 4: Love it all mirror man.
Speaker 7: All meres just just trying to share the love, just
Speaker 7: trying to set some people, trying to set some people
Speaker 7: free so we can be free, right, all right, everybody, Drew.
Speaker 2: Tell us, tell everybody what I know. You're involved with
Speaker 2: some other things, passion projects like where can be find you?
Speaker 2: Where can they support you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean really just social media right now, I
Speaker 3: have we're kind of pivoting a little bit with with
Speaker 3: my own foundation to a more like peer support kind
Speaker 3: of platform. So just my social media will be releasing
Speaker 3: those things, but we want to grow it to a
Speaker 3: big audience at some point. But we're going to be
Speaker 3: holding intimate peer support groups, which you've done already. So
Speaker 3: Better Universe Foundation is what it's going to be title
Speaker 3: under and that's what we've been trying to get launch
Speaker 3: for the last couple of years, just hasn't been going
Speaker 3: as well. But social media, better universe giants, any mental
Speaker 3: health world I'm trying to be a part of. So
Speaker 3: find me, Connect, me down to connect.
Speaker 2: Start by going and listen this to episode one with
Speaker 2: Drew in season one and then yeah, then go do
Speaker 2: your research and support them. And yeah, Drew Man, thank
Speaker 2: you for coming on. We will do this again, no doubt,
Speaker 2: keep your comeback going. I'm so proud of you as
Speaker 2: you know, just as a friend to watch you step up.
Speaker 2: But we know like the work doesn't stop.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I appreciate it so much. Love you guys and
Speaker 3: looking forward to stay connected and watching this podcast myself.
Speaker 2: All right, Love you both.
Speaker 4: Peace.
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