1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Look y'all, I know 2 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: I talked about my childhood periodically on Body Bags, and 3 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: everybody has good and bad in their life. Everybody doesn't 4 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: matter who you are, nobody's immune to it. But in 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: my childhood, the good times stand out to me more 6 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: so than the bad. And I could complain about the 7 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: bad if I wanted to, but at this point in 8 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: my life, I like to think about the good. And 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: one of the really cool things about my childhood is 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: that I spent a lot of time with my paternal grandparents, 11 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: and my grandfather, who I call Papau Morgan. I love 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: that man. He's a big man, real big men. He 13 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: still raised mules, if you can imagine that for people 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: that would There were actually a group of guys that 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: would buy mules from him that wanted them to pull wagons. 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: And there was actually one old man that still preferred 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: a mule drawn plow over a tractor. But when I 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: had free time with my pipe all morning, one of 19 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: the things that he would take me to do too, 20 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: actually was to fish for bluegill that's brim with cane pole. 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: And number two was to go hunting. Now, think about 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: this is that in my family, everything my family did 23 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: was for subsistence. They had a huge garden, and it's 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: not like it was a hobby. They had to have 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: a garden and it was massive, and they worked in 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: it all the time. When they went hunting, it wasn't 27 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: like it was a pleasure trip. My grandfather would probably 28 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: look back and laugh at these guys pay thousands and 29 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars to go out and hunt from a helicopter. 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: He did it so that he could put food on 31 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: the table. Now one of his primary things that he 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: would hunt for. And I know many of you guys 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: will recoil over this, will squirrel. My grandmother could take 34 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: a squirrel and she would make squirrel and rice and 35 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: it was one of the best tasting things in the world. Now, 36 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, squirrel is not necessarily in my 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: repertoire anymore as it were. But I remember going out 38 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: in those piny woods in North Louisiana with my papa 39 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: walking along five six seven years old, and no, he 40 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: didn't give me a gun. I just walked along with him, 41 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: and his eyes were always toward the sky, looking at 42 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: the tops of those trees and he'd buy a squirrel 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: every single time, and that was pure joy to me, 44 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: just being with him, learning from him, covering my ears 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: from sound of that twelve gage shot gun. 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: Of going on. 47 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: But today we're going to talk about a case that 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: involves two deaths. One you're very familiar with, Crystal Rogers, 49 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: and the other maybe not so much, but just as 50 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: important in this case is Crystal rogers daddy, who went 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: by the name Tommy Tommy Ballard. He was actually shot 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: and killed while walking through the woods with his twelve 53 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: year old grandson. And it's for that reason I really 54 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this case today. I'm Joseph Scott 55 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Body Bags. The older I get, Dave, 56 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: the more I would desire to have a time machine. 57 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: I wish I could go back in time and see 58 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: my Papa, my granny again. I wish I could to 59 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: sit at my granny's kitchen table. And they have a 60 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: very very tiny house. Their kitchen table was their dining 61 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: room as well. We would have Christmas meals and Thanksgiving 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: meals in the same room where they were being prepared, 63 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: you know. But it was a it was a joyful scene. 64 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: It was always warm and everybody's sit around the table 65 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: and we talked about things. I remember sitting next to 66 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: my granddaddy and he would actually the way he would complain. 67 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: He would complain about coffee because he liked it strong. 68 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 1: My granny's name was Pearl. He'd be sitting there and 69 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: I think she did this on purpose. He's a big man. 70 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: She'd make him drink out of these little, tiny, tiny 71 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: coffee cups with a saucer, and if if the coffee 72 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: wasn't strong enough, he'd say, Earl, you run out of coffee, 73 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And so you know, that was that 74 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: was kind of his way. And it had to have 75 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: chickry in it by you know, in Louisiana. Chickry is 76 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: a thing that developed back in you know, I think 77 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: probably pre Civil War. But they would, you know, Southerners 78 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: shall make coffee out of anything, and it had that. 79 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: It's horrible taste to me. I don't like it. I 80 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: know some of you guys will take a fist of 81 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: that too, probably, but I just don't like chick or coffee. 82 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: Whenever I hear the name Pearl used as a Southern 83 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: woman's name, the Beverly Hillbillies and Lester Flatt and Earl Scrugs. 84 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: You know, Earl Pearl. Don't give your love to Earl. 85 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: I just remember that. But Bartstown, Kentucky, if you look 86 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 2: it up, you're gonna find out there is a number 87 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: of stories I bought. Bardstown, beautiful town in Kentucky. The 88 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: sad part is the most of the stories that you 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: read are going to be of unsolved murders. Oh, not 90 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: unsolved deaths. We're talking unsolved murders in this case where 91 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: right off the top mentioning Crystal Rogers and her father, 92 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: Tommy Ballard. Now, Crystal Rogers body has never been found. 93 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: Tommy Ballard died sixteen months after Crystal went missing, and 94 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: the only thing we know for sure is that he 95 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 2: didn't kill himself because his gun had not been fired. 96 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: That was something that was bandied about at first. Yeah, 97 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: in the cases we're talking about today, the FBI had 98 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: to be called in. And oftentimes that is the case 99 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: when you might have a conflict internally, the FBI has 100 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: to be invited in. They don't just come in and 101 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: take over, right, And we had in Bardstown, Kentucky. You 102 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: have Bartstown Police Department, and you have the Sheriff's Department. 103 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: In this case, Crystal Rogers and Brooks Houck had a 104 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: two and a half year old toddler that they biologically 105 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: were the parents, and Crystal Rogers had four other children 106 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: and they were living together under the same roof as 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: husband and wife Brooks Howe and Crystal Rogers. Now Crystal 108 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: Rogers went missing. Her car was found on the side 109 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 2: of the road two days after she was reported missing. 110 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: And we're talking about in twenty fifteen, around the fourth 111 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: of July holiday twenty fifteen, when Crystal Rogers went missing, 112 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 2: it wasn't Brooks how that reported his partner, live in partner, 113 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: they cohabitated. That's what boggles my mind. He had a 114 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: report her missing, Joe. She was reported missing by her mother. 115 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: Because when Brooks house is in Bardstown and he sees 116 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers mother and she said, hey, Brooks, I hadn't 117 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: talked to I hadn't talked to Crystal. Where is she? 118 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: He's I don't know, I hadn't seen her. What don't 119 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: y'all live together? What do you mean you haven't seen her? 120 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: And Brooks just goes on about as mary Way like 121 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: nothing's up. Crystal Rogers mother goes, well, I'm reporting her missing, 122 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 2: and she goes right to the police station. Right then, 123 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: she knows something is up because this is not how 124 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: she has a relationship with her daughter. They talk every day, 125 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: they see each other all the time. I mean this 126 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: was a very small town. They knew one another, okay 127 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: in terms of friends and family, and not seeing somebody, 128 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: not talking to somebody is an unusual occurrence, and saying 129 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: I don't know is not a good answer. 130 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're right. And it's that familial circle you 131 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: know that you and I talk about so often, Dave. 132 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: If there's anything that disrupts that, and a lot of 133 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: it depends upon the other people within that circle and 134 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: how acutely aware they are of the situation that's going 135 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: on with you know, the dynamics of a couple and 136 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Is there anything that that kind 137 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: of stinks? You know, that just doesn't line up? And look, man, 138 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: when when you begin to think about how first off, 139 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: she had not had contact with her mother, right, and 140 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: you've got the person in her life that okay, let's 141 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: face it is the most intimate relationship that you. 142 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: Probably have a year old child together. 143 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Oh boy. Yeah, And they're domicile together. Yeah, you know, 144 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: to top things off, you you had mentioned something and 145 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: this roadway is going to come up a couple of times. 146 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: And remind me, Dave, I'm ever heading up to Kentucky, which, 147 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: by the way, I love that state is one of 148 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: the most beautiful places. The farms and oh my gosh, 149 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: it's it's striking when you're up there. But if I'm 150 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: going up there, remind me to stay off the Bluegrass Parkway. 151 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: No, especially around Bardstown. Get off a walk, get a mutle, 152 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: do not drive on that highway. 153 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: I know it's like you know, that keeps coming up. 154 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: And you know, when you have a person that is 155 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: missing and you have their vehicle found along the roadway. 156 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: First off, when you walk up to the vehicle, police 157 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: officers going to check and see, well, check one box, 158 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: is anybody in it? And if it's absent any sign 159 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: of life or maybe somebody that's sleeping or maybe something 160 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: really bad. You're thinking maybe they're deceased and they're laying 161 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: inside the visible space, which, by the way, is a 162 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: principle within law when if a police officer can walk 163 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: up and actually evidence something inside of a vehicle, that's 164 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: immediately cause for them to want to explore further. And 165 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: sometimes if somebody's in danger, they don't necessarily have to 166 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: have a warrant at that moment time because it's the 167 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: idea that it's an emergent situation. I actually worked a 168 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: case and you might find this interesting of a fellow 169 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: that was we found dead on the highway, dumped in 170 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: the middle of I two eighty five in Atlanta on 171 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: a ramp, and this guy had been brutalized. He was 172 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: shot multiple times, including in the head. It turns out 173 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: that this fellow was at the Final Four in Atlanta. 174 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: He had tickets to the ball games games. He got 175 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: robbed by two guys. They took his car and they 176 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: were later caught in Ohio for speeding or breaking center line. 177 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: And guess what the cop wound up seeing when he 178 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: walked up to the car and pulled him over. It's 179 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: like that scene from pulp fiction where Marvin gets shot 180 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: in the head and they said, man, what do you shoot? 181 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: Why do you shoot? Marvin? And the whole back of 182 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: the interior that car is an Ohio State trooper. I'll 183 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: never forget. This was just blasted with blood deposition. 184 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: Oh he been killed in the car. 185 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: In Atlanta, and they had driven his car to Ohio. Man, 186 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: so you know when you when you're taking care of 187 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: that man, the wolf's on it. Huh. So when you 188 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: you get up, you know, a police officer walks up 189 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: to a vehicle. Now, obviously that's a that's a stop 190 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: when you find a car abandoned on the side of 191 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: the road. And how many times do you ride down 192 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: the road, Dave and you might see a car sitting 193 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: on side of the road and it's been there for 194 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: a while, and you're thinking, has anybody ever stopped to 195 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: take a look at that car? What's going on with that? 196 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: And why is it still here? Why have the authority 197 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: has not had it removed because it's obviously a hazard. 198 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: It's dangerous, you know, to have these things on the 199 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: shoulder of the road. But they're going to check inside 200 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: of it and they're going to look for any evidence. Now, 201 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: what stood out to you relative to when they they 202 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: got to her car and and they began to inspect it. 203 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: The fact that it was found after she's reported missing. Okay, 204 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: Bluegrass Parkway is a busy thoroughfare. It would have been noticed. 205 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 2: I would have thought before this okay if it had 206 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: been there, So that's number one. Number two, the car 207 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: is found with a flat tire by Maril Mark or 208 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: fourteen on the Bluegrass Parkway. The keys are still in 209 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: the ignition, and her purse and cell phone are inside. 210 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: If the keys are in the ignition, her purse and 211 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 2: cell phone are inside the car, and there's a flat tire. 212 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 2: If you assume that she had a flat tire and 213 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: pulled over and then had to leave to go get help, 214 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 2: she would have left with her keys, her purse, her 215 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: cell phone, just normal stuff that we would grab to leave. 216 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: So immediately, you know, it appears to me to be 217 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: a staged scene because of the stuff that's left behind. 218 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: Because all you're left with is she had a flat 219 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: tire and somebody came along and kidnapped her, grabbed her 220 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: and threw her in their car and took off. 221 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: What lady is going to leave behind her possessions, particularly 222 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: things like a phone that can keep you safe. At 223 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: least you have the ability at your fingertips to dial 224 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: nine one one or hit speed dial and hit somebody 225 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: that is you know, that can take care of you. 226 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: You're just going to wander off on this roadway, which 227 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: kind of painting the picture here. This for those of 228 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: you that might not be familiar when you see the 229 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: blue Grass Parkway, it's you know, it varies in lane 230 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: size periodically, but for the most part, it is a 231 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: state road that has four lanes. You know, you got 232 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: two on one side going going one direction, you got 233 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: two on the other side. It's going to have a median, 234 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, and it's going to have shoulders on the 235 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: side of the road, and every now and then you'll 236 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: come across. It's not like necessarily being on an inner 237 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: state per se, but it's a well traveled area. You're 238 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: going to catch the attention. You know, when you think 239 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: about kidnapping, you think about somebody going off the road. 240 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: You remember, recently we've covered this horrible case out out 241 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: of Oklahoma where these women were taken down and that's 242 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: a that's kind of a that's an out of the 243 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: way location, right, We're not talking about that with the 244 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: Blue Bluegrass Parkway. We're talking about you know, this thing's 245 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: got traffic on it. I mean, there are a movie 246 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: back and forth. I think it runs kind of from 247 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: the south west up to the northeast, and so it's 248 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: a way to get from point to point that you 249 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: would see semi trailers on. I mean, you'd see campers 250 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: on every day traffic on. It's not like a. 251 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: Farm road like in Oklahoma, right, And that's why I'm saying, 252 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: if her car was found two days after she's reported missing, 253 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 2: there should have been based on the traffic and based 254 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: on who's driving along the Bluegrass Parkway on a regular basis, 255 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: somebody would have seen the car. They would have reported it. Hey, 256 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: I just saw a Crystal's car. It's not like they 257 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: don't know one another, so there's a lot here to 258 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: be concerned with. But based on her car is found 259 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: with a flat tire and all of her personal belongings 260 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: inside two days after she's reported missing, and by the way, 261 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: she's still missing. She went missing in twenty fifteen. They 262 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: have not found Crystal Rogers. 263 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: Joe, I know. And that's a huge chilling piece to 264 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: this day, is that after all of the she's nowhere 265 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: to be found. And I got to ask a question, 266 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: do women like Crystal Rogers just merely vanish, vaporize, disappear 267 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: into thin air. I think not. In forensic science, we 268 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: do what we do in order to identify collect and 269 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: analyze evidence. We generate reports, and we present it to 270 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: those interested parties to do with as they wish. When 271 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about a car like this that's found along 272 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: a roadway, I'm gonna want to know if the owner 273 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: of the primary operator is absent from that vehicle, what 274 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: what wound up bringing this vehicle to a halt in 275 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: this particular location. Is there damage to the vehicle? I 276 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: think that you had mentioned, Dave, that there was a 277 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: flat tire. Forensically, I don't want to know about the 278 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: origin of that flat tire because you know, you can 279 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: catch a nail, and the Lord knows, I've caught things 280 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: off of roadways, angle iron, all kinds of stuff that 281 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: have you know, split very expensive tires from me created 282 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,119 Speaker 1: or has a tire been punctured like on the sidewall 283 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: by something that I don't know, ice picked knife, was 284 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: it slashed? You know, we've heard stories of people going 285 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: through apartment parking lots, you know, where they'll take a 286 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: knife in a razor slash people's tires, and so there's 287 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: a lot to be gleaned. But if you've got people 288 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: that are living together, if you're looking for a suspect, 289 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: there is like DNA evidence that's within the cabin of 290 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: vehicle that you would expect to find within that vehicle. 291 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that those people might not be associated with 292 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: with their missing, but you would want to find something 293 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: that is going to be an outlier, maybe perhaps somebody 294 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: that's unexpected unidentified DNA or blood evidence that's contained within here. 295 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: And I just don't know to this point that they've 296 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: really ever opened up about that day. 297 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: There are a lot of issues surrounding the disappearance of 298 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers and the murder of Tommy Ballads, her father, 299 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: sixteen months later that have to do with a cross 300 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 2: section of police, Sheriff's Department, the Kentucky State Police, and 301 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: the FBI. And I don't throw that out there in 302 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: a minimalistic way because first things first, Brooks hout He 303 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: is the significant other of Crystal Rogers when she goes missing. 304 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: They're living together, they have a two and a half 305 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: year old toddler, and they have Crystal Rogers for their children. 306 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: The Brooks house is the male parent of the household, 307 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: and when she goes missing, he doesn't report her missing. 308 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: Her mother has to report her missing. Now, Brooks, how 309 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 2: would be the first person you would want to talk to. Hey, man, 310 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: tell us what happened? Yep, his brother, Brooks Howe has 311 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: an older brother named Nick how. Nick how works as 312 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: a police at the time as a police officer for 313 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: the Bardstown Police Department. So keep these separate. The Bardstown 314 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: Police Department and the Sheriff's Apartment are two separate entities. 315 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: They don't always work together. Sheriff's Department serves an entire 316 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: county Bardstown Police Bardstown City. The Sheriff's Department is in 317 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: charge of this case due to where everything was found, 318 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 2: and so Brooks how is brought in for an interview. 319 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: What happened? Brooks tell us about you know, when did 320 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 2: you last see Crystal Rogers because he is the last 321 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: person to see her. He is having a conversation with 322 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: Sheriff's department investigator and during the interview, brooks how receives 323 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: a phone call from his brother, Nick, the police officer 324 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 2: with Bardstown Police Department. Now, Joe and we actually have 325 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: the interview. You and I have both watched the interview 326 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: with Brooks Hawck and the Sheriff's Department where he lays 327 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: out his story which we're going to share with you. 328 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: But during the interview, Nick how calls brooks Hawk, and 329 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: brooks Howk asks, hey, you mind if I take this, 330 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: it's I need to take it, and so he answers 331 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: the phone. We only hear brooks Howke's sided the conversation. Yep, 332 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 2: but I'm going to tell you to me. It sounded scripted, 333 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 2: it sounded planned out. It sounded like brooks Hawk was 334 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: trying to get his version of events on the record 335 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: without ever being challenged. He knows everything's being recorded, and 336 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 2: so there was one thing that he says on this 337 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: phone call with his brother Nick. He says, Nick, I 338 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: don't think she ran off with another man, and you're 339 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: not going to convince me of it. They're not going 340 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: to convince me of it, you know. And I'm like, 341 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: so he's laying the guilty party always lays out another 342 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 2: option for where the person is, and so is that 343 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: out there? But then he says, well, Nick, I'm just 344 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: here to help. I just they need my help. I 345 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: just want to help them find her. And if you 346 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: say I need to leave because they're gonna jam me up, 347 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 2: I'll leave. If you're telling me to leave, I'll leave. 348 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: And so he has the excuse, Hey, my brother. The 349 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: police officer just told me to end this because you 350 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: guys are going to try to frame me. And he leaves, 351 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: not before the police tell him, well, you're the main suspect. 352 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 2: You got holes in your story, man Nick out By 353 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: the way, the older brother lost his job by doing that. Yeah, 354 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 2: I call. 355 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems staged to me, at least it reminded 356 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: me back when Satday Night Live was something that I 357 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: watched during the days of John Lovetz. He did an 358 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: over the top presentation of being an actor and he 359 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: would do his hand up in the air and say 360 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: I am an actor, you know, like that and that 361 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of smacked of that. Oh yeah, 362 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: and listen, let me let me kind of interject this 363 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: into the conversation. 364 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to go with Morgan fairchadpe. 365 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: No, No, not that one. No, going to do that one. 366 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: But the idea that he's he's bold enough to have 367 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: this conversation. And some people I've heard, actual people that 368 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: have criticized the police officer for allowing him to take 369 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: that phone call. Let me tell you something. Police are 370 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: about harvesting data information and anything that you say, anything 371 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: that you say. Anything that you say or do where 372 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: it's being taped or recorded, it has potential utility for 373 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: their case. So the fact that he allowed him to 374 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: have this conversation. If he had said, no, put it away. 375 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: We're talking right now, we want to continue this conversation, 376 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have even though it's a one sided conversation 377 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: that he was having on the phone, we wouldn't have that. 378 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be documented. And I think for investigators, and 379 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: certainly now in the wake of you know, Loath these 380 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: many years later, we have the FBI that's involved in 381 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: the case. You think those guys have looked and looked 382 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: at that video and listened to it. 383 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: That video was four days after after her disappearance. By 384 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: the way, it was not even a week. It was 385 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: four days. Okay, they've got Brooks in there, four days 386 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: after she goes missing, and they're getting him his story. 387 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: This is the first thing police have to do. You're 388 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 2: a suspect because you're in the relationship with her, but 389 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: you got your last person that saw her, you know, 390 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: and we need to know where you were, what you 391 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: two were doing, and they're gonna get that story. And 392 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: this is the story you're held. That's why attorneys say 393 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: do not talk to police ever, because whatever you say 394 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: is now your story. That's my story, and I'm sticking 395 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: to it. Okay, you're Anything you change from here on 396 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: out proves you're a liar, right so. 397 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: And that's the way, that's the way it would roll 398 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: roll on. But you know, looking at this on the 399 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: flip side as well, you know we talked about the intimacy, 400 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: level of intimacy with this relationship. Let me tell you something, 401 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: if this was my precious wife, i'd, you know, first off, 402 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: they'd have to keep me chained to the chair because 403 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to be out beating the bushes looking. I'm 404 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: going to be up and down, up and down that 405 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: parkway out there, the Bluegrass Parkway, which you and I 406 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: have both now sworn off of. I'm going to be 407 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: beating the bushes out there, and I'm gonna be looking. 408 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to assemble friends. I'm going to do everything 409 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: that I can and look. Let the hide come with 410 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: the hairs, they say. I'm going to be going through 411 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: this area as rigorously as I possibly can to try 412 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: to track down this person that I've got a child with, 413 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: that I've shared a life with. But the problem is, Dave, 414 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: is that we don't see this coming through. We don't 415 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: see that kind of evangelical zeal here. And for an 416 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: investigator that's digging into this, and when you've got somebody 417 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: that I'm sure they picked up on pretty quickly, it 418 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: seems to be kind of play acting, if you will. 419 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: There are a lot more unanswered questions to come. In Alabama. 420 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: We're known here and to maybe a lesser degree, Alabama 421 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: has quite the reputation though for severe weather. It's a 422 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: part and parcels living here, and you know, we deal 423 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: with tornadoes and all those sorts of things. But the 424 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: old adage that comes to mind for me when you 425 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: talk about storms. I know it's a metaphor for life, 426 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: but the idea of lightning never striking twice in the 427 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: same location, there is some truth to that, I think 428 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: both as a metaphor and there are people out there 429 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: that have been struck by light in multiple times, but 430 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: for the most part, to have two critical events happen 431 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: in such close proximity. And I'm talking about Crystal Rogers 432 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: and I'm talking about her daddy, Tommy. Dave, what what 433 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: are the odds that this that this could actually occur. 434 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: And here's that. Here's our favorite roadway again. I've got 435 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: to see it again, the Parkway, the Bluegrass Parkway. You know, 436 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: these these two events happen in proximity to this roadway. 437 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: That's that's why it seems cursed to me almost it is. 438 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 2: And to get to Tommy Ballard, Crystal Rogers father, sixteen 439 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: months after she's missing, now I want to go back 440 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: very quickly. Brooks How in a relationship with Crystal Rogers. 441 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 2: They have a two and a half year old toddler. Now, 442 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: as part of his story for what he was doing 443 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: when they last saw each other, brooks How told police 444 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: that he actually he and Crystal Rogers were at his 445 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 2: mom's farm. Okay, at brooks House's mom and at midnight, 446 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: we're talking in the middle of the night, that's what 447 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 2: he told. They were just out walking around. Now the 448 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: officer is at the toddler's two and a half years old. 449 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: Who goes out to a farm in the middle of 450 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: the night with a two and a half year old 451 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 2: nobody because they can't walk really without you know, you 452 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: can't see there's just a lot wrong with his story. 453 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: But you have to look at his story and figure 454 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: out what's he trying to spend. Is he trying to 455 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: set himself up as being at the farm property in 456 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 2: the middle of the night in case somebody saw, because 457 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: that's what it sounds like now. Early on, they brought 458 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: out tracker dogs to these different sites that Brooks Houck 459 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: has mentioned, including the farm, because they wanted to track 460 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers. You know, did they pick Crystal up out 461 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: at the farm? Well? They did. These dogs tracked Crystal 462 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: Rogers out at brooks House's mom's farm without any trouble 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: at all. But you know what they didn't do. The 464 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: dogs went were the same dogs that tracked Crystal Rogers' 465 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 2: body out at the farm. They were also brought to 466 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: her car on Bluegrass Parkway to see did she get 467 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: out of that car and walk? Those same dogs malfunctioned 468 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 2: and couldn't pick up a scent. So they can pick 469 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 2: her scent up at the farm, but they can't pick 470 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: her scent up at her car on the Bluegrass Parkway. 471 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 2: What does that tell you? Okay, so here we go. 472 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: We know she was at the park because we know 473 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: that's what they were told. We also know that Nick 474 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 2: how tells his brother Brooks, get out of there, don't 475 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 2: talk to the Sheriff's department. So now Nick, how wait, 476 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: why are you telling your brother to not do this? 477 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: This is an unwritten rule. You don't do this, man. 478 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: So now Nick Hawk is in trouble with his boss. 479 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 2: He's also now a suspect because why is he doing 480 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: this with his brother? So here we go. They can't 481 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: find Crystal Rogers anywhere. They've got signs they keep putting up, 482 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: and you know what, somebody goes around town and takes 483 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 2: these signs down. Joe, Crystal Rodgers is missing. They have 484 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 2: this huge bourbon festival. Bartstown is like the Bourbon capital 485 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: of the world, right Bartstown, Kentucky for crying out loud, 486 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: and they have thousands of people that come into Bartstown 487 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 2: and the people they were really trying to find Crystal Rogers. 488 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 2: Help us find she's missing. This mother of five, thirty 489 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 2: five years old is missing. Police help, and they're putting 490 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: signs everywhere so that everybody, the thousands of people that 491 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 2: come to the festival will be able to help us 492 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: find Crystal. But you know what, somebody, somebody is taking 493 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: the flyers down, taking the signs down. Right before all 494 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: these thousands of people to get to they're taking them down. 495 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: Who would do that? What kind of monster takes those down? 496 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: Who could be that bold? Or who could be who 497 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: could be that emboldened in order to do this? And 498 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, she seems literally to vanish 499 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: into thin air m hm. I think relative to the car, 500 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: did the dogs actually, as you had said, function out 501 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: there had to have or or or was the car 502 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: driven out there without her presence? And they've worked before? 503 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: So what has happened in between those times where they 504 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: don't you know, they don't get a hit that they're 505 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: and it's not like you're talking about a single animal, 506 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: and so what are what are yeah? What are the odds? 507 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: Now when you begin to think about this, because. 508 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: She'd be tied and she was there, you would expect 509 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: that she would have gotten out of the car to 510 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: at least look, hey, what's going on? You know, and 511 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: so you would have that they didn't pick up anything, Joe, nothing, 512 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: the same dogs picked up at the house. 513 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating when you think about that relative to 514 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: what's and she's not unfamiliar with this area, right, Okay, 515 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: this is Kith and Kent. You know she's grown up here, 516 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: She's got people here. You know that she's going to 517 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: know where to go or you know, know how to 518 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: get access to She has a phone. 519 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: Her cell phone is found in the car for crying 520 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 2: out loud. You mentioned it earlier. She could have called 521 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: nine to one one if anything, you know. But I 522 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: want to get to something very quickly because Nick How 523 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 2: brooks Howk's older brother, he's a police officer, Bardstown Police. 524 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: He tells his brother to leave that don't talk to 525 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 2: the cop anymore. So after that, his boss brings him in. 526 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: They read in the riot egg. By the way, Nick 527 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: How gets fired three or four months later. We can't 528 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: tolerate this because they set him up for a polygraph. 529 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 2: They bring in brooks How. Nick How. We're gonna get 530 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: you guys on a polygraph. You're telling the truth, Okay, 531 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: no worries. So Nick How comes in and he fails 532 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: miserably on this polygraph test and they basically call him out. 533 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: You know, we know you know more than what you're 534 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: telling us, And he has told nick How is told 535 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 2: we use luminol on the trunk of your squad car 536 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: and it lit up like chernobyl. That's the phrase they 537 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: used it lit up like Chernobyl. So I don't know 538 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 2: if they were saying that and true or if they 539 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: were saying it to trip him up. I don't know, 540 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: but we do know this. Crystal Rogers still hasn't been 541 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: found in sixteen months after she goes missing. Her dad. 542 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: Tommy Ballard, he's with his It's early in the morning. 543 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: He's with his twelve year old son, grandson rather, and 544 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: they're gonna go hunting. A pretty common occurrence for those 545 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: who like the outdoors that live around Bartstown, Kentucky. So 546 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 2: Tommy Ballard has his hunting rifle and his twelve year 547 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: old grandson and they're on their own property, right. Yeah, 548 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: And somehow, in the early morning hours, if I'm not mistaken, 549 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: it was around six am. Yes, and somehow, someway, Tommy 550 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 2: Ballard is shot in the chest from a rifle that 551 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: can't be seen from anywhere. 552 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: Yep. Let me hang on, let me ask you something 553 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: real quick. First, blush, here, what does that tell you 554 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: about the individual that fired this weapon? And yeah, and 555 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: and it also goes to familiarity. Oh buddy, yeah, you 556 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: know so that you have to know points of access. 557 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: Here's here's another bit here. That's kind of it is 558 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: it truly is. And you have to understand the utility 559 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: of those of those perspectives. When we're working a shooting 560 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: scene from a reconstruction standpoint, we consider if say you've 561 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: got uh, Tommy who has been shot, you're going to 562 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: pull You're going to pull these kind of lines of 563 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: sight that like a wagon wheel, the spokes of a 564 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: wagon wheel kind of radiate out from his body. Okay, 565 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: but you have to consider, and this is something that 566 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: we assess at autopsy, kind of the ankle from which 567 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: this round struck him. That's where the grandson's testimony, our statement. 568 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: Let's put it to you that way, to you know, 569 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: put it out there that way. What position were you 570 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: and grandad in when you were walking and he fell, 571 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: Because you might actually depend upon the distance. He may 572 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: have seen him fall first before he heard the report 573 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: of the weapon, or he may have heard the report 574 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: of the weapon. He's going to turn his head and 575 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: then witness his grandpa maybe gasp, grasp his chest or 576 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: just fall over graveyard dead right there on the spot. 577 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: So it you know, one of the things that you 578 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: try to assess it a scene, and once you can 579 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: establish that point of the directionality of the bullet. That's 580 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that we always try to do. 581 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: You know, you hear about our assessments at autopsy where 582 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: we talk about we'll say, well, it's from front to rear, 583 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: around travels from front to rear, it goes from high 584 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: to low, which means maybe you're in a position of 585 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: dominance and firing down on a target, or from below 586 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: to above. Maybe it lists from right to left of 587 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: the decedent. It originated to his right side, and we 588 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: can actually look at these injuries and give you an idea. 589 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: But here's the problem with this particular injury that this 590 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: man has sustained, Dave, is that the range is indeterminate 591 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: because it's not like somebody walked up to him and 592 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: fired this round into his chest where we're going to 593 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: have soot deposition and all of those things that we'd 594 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: look for relative to close close gunfire. This is fired 595 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: at a distance, So the only thing that you're really 596 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: going to have is this kind of a braided area 597 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: around the round, and it you know where this originates from, 598 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: you'll see it. It's kind of red irritated, a little 599 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: area that's around the actual injury itself, and it's because 600 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: a bullet is spinning through the air and it literally 601 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: twists the skin like that. That's all you see on 602 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: these indeterminate. 603 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: Actually see that in the skin. 604 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can. And microscopically you can pick up 605 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: on you take Yeah, you can pick up and take 606 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: sections of it. And it's demonstrated pretty well. But you 607 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: can see it with I'll tell you you can see 608 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: it with a hand len it's a magnifying glass. You 609 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: can actually take it and see it like that once 610 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: the wound is cleaned of blood and that sort of thing. 611 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: But the only thing that it really tells you is 612 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: that it's from an indeterminate distance once you get away, 613 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, beyond Some people have a variety of different 614 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: parameters they put on it. You think about thirty six inches, 615 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: it's generally about the maximum distance. So anything within thirty 616 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: six inches you might have shot at getting soot depositions. 617 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: So out beyond about thirty six inches, brother, you can't 618 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: get nothing. And so it's not going to tell you 619 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: how the range of fire. But we know that no 620 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: one was approximating him with this weapon, like some mystery 621 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: person appeared in the woods as they're walking down this 622 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: path and fired them round. Here's another thing too, that's 623 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: interesting about this is that Dave, you know we were 624 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: talking about we're talking about the roosters are just wake up? 625 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: All right? 626 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: This is early early in the day. How is a 627 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: killer going to know about the timetable involved when you 628 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: exit out of your home with your grandson. You talk 629 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: about a total disregard. This might this ranks right up 630 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: there with one of the more callous things that we've covered, 631 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: because you're literally murdering this gentleman in front of his 632 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: twelve year old grandson, just sinking. Let that sink in 633 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: for a second. Is this is this something that's going 634 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: to leave his mind? You remember how I was talking 635 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: about early on, I was talking about memories that I 636 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: had walking through the woods of my papa. I still 637 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: remember it to this day. My grandfather was not murdered. 638 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: You know this, This is a time that is marked 639 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: in this child's mind forever and ever. Amen, you know, 640 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: moving forward, and so, who's familiar enough with the schedule 641 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: that Tommy would have had, And going back to Crystal, 642 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: who's familiar enough with her schedule to get her off 643 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: the road, if you will? And out of the regular 644 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: rhythm rhythm. You're talking about a lady that has children, 645 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: five kids. Yeah, she has a very regimented world. This 646 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: idea that are parents, grandparents, You've got brothers and sisters. 647 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: You know that if you're the person in charge, baby, 648 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: you got to keep a time tight timetable. And the 649 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: more elements children that you have in the picture, the 650 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: tighter your time is. You don't have time for foolishness. 651 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: So you have to be able to understand who in 652 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: her world, who in Tommy's world would have had enough 653 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: of an awareness of what their daily routine was. And 654 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: back to Tommy, I know I'm kind of running back 655 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: over the same pass here, but there's so much to 656 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: unpacked with this case. When you think about time alone, 657 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: who in the world would have known that on that 658 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: particular day, at that particular time, he would have exited 659 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: from his house with his grandson and begin to trek 660 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: off into the woods to. 661 00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: Hunt from that location. 662 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: By the way, from that specific location, who would have 663 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: known it? 664 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: And by the way that specific location but right up 665 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: against the Bluegrass. 666 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: Parkway access an opportunity and showing up with the tools, 667 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: showing up with the tools to do the job being 668 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: familiar with the terrain. Is there a place you could 669 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: go and hide? Well, yeah, I mean, oh you look, 670 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,439 Speaker 1: do me a favor. Don't believe what I'm saying. Next 671 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: time you're riding down the road and you're on a 672 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: four lane highway a state highway, look on either side. 673 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: Look at the brush line that's there. You can't see 674 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: what's on the other side. Now, you might come across 675 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: a field every now and then where it's cleared out, 676 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,240 Speaker 1: but for the most part you're going to see pine trees. 677 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: You might see an occasual oak tree, but you're going 678 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: to see low level brush, which if you wanted to 679 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: create a hide, you know, if you put it in 680 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: the terms of and let's just face it, this is 681 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: an assassination. I think where that's planned, you have an 682 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: opportunity to do it. This isn't like some random round now, 683 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: is it Dave that just traveled out of nowhere and 684 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: happen to strike this man in the chest. 685 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 2: And it happened on November nineteenth, So we're talking about 686 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 2: the early morning hours of a cold November morning in Kentucky. 687 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is right right at the time of year, 688 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: at least down here in south where most deer season, 689 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: white tail season kicks off. You know, so you're in 690 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: that area. Well, he's going out. I guess he's going 691 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: to try to bag a deer with his grandson. That's 692 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: probably what they're going to try to do. And they're 693 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: out there, they're in motion. This is property that he knows. 694 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe he's got salt blocks out on 695 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: his property. Maybe he has a specific area where, you know, 696 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: deer going to walk into his field of view and 697 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: he'll be able to take a deer and his grandson 698 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: will be able to witness it. I don't know. 699 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 2: When you look at this, it says Ballard was preparing 700 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 2: for a hunting trip with his twelve year old grandson 701 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 2: on family property next to the Bluegrass Parkway in Bardstown, Kentucky. 702 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 2: An unknown subject fired one shot and hit Ballard in 703 00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 2: the chest and instantly killed him. Yeah, the gun that 704 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 2: the rifle they believe that was used and the murder 705 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 2: of Tommy Ballard was once owned by Nick Howck holy Smokes, 706 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 2: the older brother of Brooks how This story continues. These 707 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 2: are Brooks Howk has been arrested and charged in the 708 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 2: murder of Crystal Rogers even though they haven't found her body. Now, Joe, 709 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 2: I have a question, how do you do that? What 710 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,439 Speaker 2: do they do with you? Do you come into play 711 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 2: where the police sit down and say, okay, Professor Morgan, 712 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 2: we haven't found the body, but here's what we do have. 713 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: Can you is there any way you believe this person 714 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 2: might still be alive? What do we do here? And 715 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 2: we have the body of Tommy Ballard, we do not 716 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 2: have the body of Crystal Rodgers. 717 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and unfortunately, well, I'll say unfortunately this is from 718 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: a practicality standpoint, there's nothing really that the medical examiner 719 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: can do in that circumstance if you don't have like 720 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: we play into our world, plays into a missing individual 721 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: where they are declared dead. If say, and here's the 722 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: term that people people get frustrated with it sometimes. But 723 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: when you have a copious amount of blood at a scene, 724 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: one of the things that we'll ask the medical examiner 725 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: is this much blood that we're seeing at the scene, 726 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: is this compatible with life? And you might look at 727 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: it and there's really if you have a big blood stain, 728 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: there's no way to actually calculate the volume. Okay, on 729 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: carpet and anywhere else we can speak to that and say, yeah, this, 730 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: this volume of blood might not be compatible with life today. 731 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: With Crystal, We're not talking about a volume of blood. 732 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about a woman that has just vanished. And 733 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: how do people vanish? I think one of the most 734 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: interesting things about about Crystal's disappearance and continuing absence. You 735 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: know she has Yeah, as you'd mentioned rightly, that she's 736 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: been declared dead at this point in time. This is 737 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: a homicide. It's been he's been charged with home side 738 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: and you do not you do not charge with somebody 739 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: with homicide if you do not believe that subject to 740 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,760 Speaker 1: in fact be debt. So one of the interesting elements 741 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: is how do you make a body disappear? Do you 742 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: have access to heavy equipment? Do you have access to, say, 743 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: for instance, I don't know tools to create cement with. 744 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 1: Do you have access to the ability to render down 745 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: a body? And when I say that, I'm talking about dismemberment, 746 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking about fire. Do you have the willpower and 747 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: the tools and the ability to do that? And still, 748 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: since we're talking twenty fifteen, Dave, as of this recording 749 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 1: right now, it's twenty twenty four, A lot of water's 750 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: passing inder the bridge. There's been a lot of people 751 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: looking for There are rewards out there, their rewards for 752 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: both Tommy and for Crystal. And to this point, we 753 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: don't know really any more than we have when she 754 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: went missing. But I'll tell you this, the police are 755 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: still investigating and hopefully at some point in time we're 756 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: going to see more evidence come to light. We'll be 757 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: keeping an eye on this case moving forward. I can 758 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: guarantee you that because this is one of the biggest 759 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: mysteries that I have covered some time, and we're going 760 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: to travel down the Bluegrass Parkway one more time. I'm 761 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags