Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Evening listeners, Welcome to Midnight Chats. It's Thursday night, it's late.
Speaker 2: It's officially the most depressing week of the year, officially
Speaker 2: for me, anyway. The clocks have just gone back, gets
Speaker 2: darker earlier in the evenings. It's cold, it's miserable. The
Speaker 2: Great British Bake Off has just finished and winter hasn't
Speaker 2: even really begun yet. But hey, we try not to
Speaker 2: wallow on Midnight Chats. And I'm actually looking on the
Speaker 2: positive side because tonight's episode of the podcast, I think
Speaker 2: is a real warmer, a real cracker. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to get give you the full history of my guest
Speaker 2: because you know Primal Scream and you know Bobby Gillespie,
Speaker 2: and there's no way we were going to comprehensively cover
Speaker 2: the story of his thirty years in music in a
Speaker 2: shortish podcast. So it's fortunate that the album Primal Scream
Speaker 2: released a couple of weeks ago, zones in on a
Speaker 2: very specific period for the band. It's called give Out,
Speaker 2: but don't give up the original Memphis recordings, and I
Speaker 2: won't go into too much detail because Bobby sets the
Speaker 2: scene pretty nicely in the conversation you're about to hear,
Speaker 2: but in a nutshell. Back in nineteen ninety three, Primal
Speaker 2: Scream just won the Mercury Prize for Scream of Delica.
Speaker 2: They were suddenly a very big deal. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of heat, a lot of attension, a lot of
Speaker 2: pressure on them, and they headed to the legendary Ardent
Speaker 2: Studios in Memphis to record the follow up with producer
Speaker 2: Tom Dowd. Now, he was known for his work with
Speaker 2: Ray Charles Otis, reading Aretha Franklin Legends of Soul music,
Speaker 2: but he wasn't necessarily associated with rock bands like Primal Screen.
Speaker 2: And after a while the band realized it wasn't turning
Speaker 2: out maybe the way they wanted, and when they got back,
Speaker 2: they reworked and re recorded the album with a new producer,
Speaker 2: the album You'll know as Give Out but Don't Give Up,
Speaker 2: which has tracks like Rocks and free on Them. Now
Speaker 2: fast forward almost twenty five years, and Andrew Innis from
Speaker 2: the band found those original tapes from those Memphis sessions
Speaker 2: in his basement and they decided to share them with
Speaker 2: the world. Now they haven't just put the music they
Speaker 2: rediscovered out but also made a documentary about this time.
Speaker 2: It's broadcast on BBC four on the City sixteenth of November,
Speaker 2: and it's a really moving, funny and passionate portrait, not
Speaker 2: just of the Primal Scream story, particularly those early years
Speaker 2: back in Glasgow, but specifically the time they spent in
Speaker 2: the Deep South around the making of this album and
Speaker 2: Bobby and Andrew travel back to Memphis. In the film,
Speaker 2: You've got some big personalities who were close to it
Speaker 2: who helped tell the story, so Noel Gallagher, Alan McGhee,
Speaker 2: they're entertaining in it with their punchlines, but beyond that,
Speaker 2: I found it quite a moving watch really, particularly the
Speaker 2: contributions from ex Primal Scream singer Denise Johnson and Bobby's
Speaker 2: emotional memories of guitarist Robert Young, who played on this
Speaker 2: album but passed away a few years ago. And you
Speaker 2: maybe think of Bobby as a lot of swagger, bravado,
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit formidable. That's there, But above all,
Speaker 2: it's a very tender, vulnerable film and brilliantly done. So yeah,
Speaker 2: check that out. Hopefully it'll be on BBC iPlayer afterwards
Speaker 2: as well. Before we get into that conversation, if you're
Speaker 2: listening to this podcast for the first time, the second time,
Speaker 2: or maybe you've been with us for a little while.
Speaker 2: Please do subscribe to Midnight Chats. Wherever you're listening to
Speaker 2: this you're getting alert a reminder every time we put
Speaker 2: out a new episode each week on a Thursday at midnight,
Speaker 2: and please do comment and rate and share all that
Speaker 2: stuff that helps spread the word. I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 2: last week's episode. By the way Stuart's speaking to cat Power,
Speaker 2: I thought that one was particularly good, so do check
Speaker 2: that out if you haven't already. We also have a
Speaker 2: new issue of the magazine we make Loud and Quiet
Speaker 2: out this weekend. Tons in there. Jimithy Lacoste is on
Speaker 2: the cover and interviews with the likes of the Beastie
Speaker 2: Boys and gets loads and loads of great new music.
Speaker 2: Loud and Quiet dot com to get hold of that.
Speaker 2: But back to tonight's guest Bobby Gillespie. I'd only met
Speaker 2: Bobby once before, about two years ago. Now, we went
Speaker 2: record shopping for a video series we make at Loud
Speaker 2: and Quiet called Bands by Records. It's on YouTube if
Speaker 2: you want to check that out. Not long after that,
Speaker 2: Bobby had a really serious accident where he fell off
Speaker 2: stage at a festival in Switzerland and broke his back
Speaker 2: in four places. He had to travel by air ambulance
Speaker 2: back to the UK for treatment. So that's why I
Speaker 2: started by asking him about that in case you're wondering,
Speaker 2: and the rest I won't spoil. So here we go,
Speaker 2: Episode fifty nine of Midnight Chats with Bobby Gillespie. Last
Speaker 2: time I saw you was about two years ago and
Speaker 2: we went to a great little record store in Camden
Speaker 2: Town in North London. A couple of weeks after that,
Speaker 2: I read that you'd had your your accident on stage
Speaker 2: and with primal scream in Switzerland at the festival, and
Speaker 2: I was just wondering how you are because I haven't
Speaker 2: seen you since then, and that sounded pretty serious.
Speaker 3: It was a serious accident. I broke my back in
Speaker 3: four places and I was for a couple of months,
Speaker 3: and you know, I was. It was serious. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm lucky that I can walk and but I'm fine now,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm I'm good. Everything's back to normal, and
Speaker 3: it was, it was. It was an interesting experience.
Speaker 2: Was in one of those moments where you thought you
Speaker 2: did you know immediately you've done something very very serious. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Immediately I heard the ground and you it was bad.
Speaker 3: I knew it was bad.
Speaker 2: Are you still living with like the effects of like
Speaker 2: do you have to go through physio and all that
Speaker 2: kind of thing after that?
Speaker 3: Yes, I had to do fazzio. I had to do
Speaker 3: all sorts of exercises. Yeah, and I wasn't like heavier
Speaker 3: drugs as well as a traumadol like stuff, a trauma door.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Towards the you know, when the you have to start
Speaker 3: stepping the tramadol dan and.
Speaker 2: I think it.
Speaker 3: It's six weeks and then I started to see a
Speaker 3: fezzio guy and he gave me some exercises and that
Speaker 3: was good.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean you mentioned that you're concerned about,
Speaker 2: you know, the basics of being able to walk again,
Speaker 2: but we're also thinking, like, how is this going to
Speaker 2: affect my performance at the stage.
Speaker 3: No, because the I was taken to hospital directly after
Speaker 3: the fall and they shot me up with morphine. At
Speaker 3: this point, no one knew what the extent of the
Speaker 3: damage was. I was lying on a slab, you know,
Speaker 3: the kind of a stretcher type thing for a couple
Speaker 3: of hours, and then the X rayed me, and I
Speaker 3: couldn't stand up to be x rayed, so they had
Speaker 3: to do it the term I don't know what it's
Speaker 3: lying down. I don't know how they did it, but
Speaker 3: they did it, and and they gave me more morphine.
Speaker 3: And then I kind of fell asleep that night and
Speaker 3: I woke up the next morning and you know, like
Speaker 3: really shot philomorphine and I started to come back to
Speaker 3: consciousness and you know, I'm in a hospital in his
Speaker 3: tiny room. What's wrong? You know, when I wonder what
Speaker 3: I've done, I wonder what the damages. Will I be
Speaker 3: able to walk again? I didn't know. So the doctors
Speaker 3: came in after my breakfast. Doctors came in and they said,
Speaker 3: we'll get some good news and some bad news. And said,
Speaker 3: the bad news is you're broke in your back in
Speaker 3: four places. The good news is the good breaks.
Speaker 2: And did you make a joke, say I have had
Speaker 2: a few good breaks in my career.
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, And he said, because you
Speaker 3: know they will hear when you know you'll be able
Speaker 3: to walk, and you know a couple of months you'll
Speaker 3: be okay, but you're going to be out for a
Speaker 3: couple of months. You you can't do any physico activity
Speaker 3: and said, so, you know, I had the breaks were
Speaker 3: in bones at the front of my vertebrae, had spur
Speaker 3: bits between the vertebrae, and I had to been on
Speaker 3: the back where all the nerves are. I think they've
Speaker 3: been met. I've had to operate and that could have
Speaker 3: been tricky, and but as it happens, they were just
Speaker 3: there was four fractures and I just had to wear
Speaker 3: chest brace for a couple of months. And I was
Speaker 3: at home. You know, I spent a lot of time
Speaker 3: in bed, and I was very tired. I was ex
Speaker 3: dosted because the bodies, the body uses all the energy
Speaker 3: from you know, food and stuff and sleep to repair itself,
Speaker 3: and so I slept a lot. The body demanded that sleep,
Speaker 3: and I did you know, I just watched a lot
Speaker 3: of films. Even that I couldn't sit in the living
Speaker 3: room and watch a film. I couldn't sit. You have
Speaker 3: to be flashypan normal. Yeah, because I had a chest
Speaker 3: brace on. It was metal chest prace. So I did
Speaker 3: just line my back and I had this, you know,
Speaker 3: got stand to put an iPad on. And I just
Speaker 3: watched a film half a film and it just doze off.
Speaker 3: I never listened to music either the whole time. I
Speaker 3: think it's very strange. I know it's you know, normally
Speaker 3: I listened to music all the time. Well, maybe I
Speaker 3: was in heavy drugs and I think maybe I don't know,
Speaker 3: I was thinking a lot. You know, I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear music. The only music I really listened to
Speaker 3: was at night in my bed and I'd get headphones
Speaker 3: on when the lakes went and I would listen to
Speaker 3: some tracks by George Harris and All Things Must Pass,
Speaker 3: Beware of Darkness, and the other one that was Isn't
Speaker 3: It a Pity? Real real healing music, And yeah, I
Speaker 3: listened to them every night. You know. I think there's
Speaker 3: a lot of loving those records and then those songs
Speaker 3: and yeah, very spiritual and yeah that that that was
Speaker 3: a bit. And then when I was sort of getting
Speaker 3: a bit better and I could walk a bit better
Speaker 3: and stuff, I listened a lot to Tom Paige's Greatest.
Speaker 2: Has It's just motivational music.
Speaker 3: Then, yeah, listen to Tom and you know, i'd play
Speaker 3: it loud to the speakers and yeah, and then maybe
Speaker 3: I want to I want to be in a band again.
Speaker 2: You know, it's great there to hear that that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff can play a role in part of the
Speaker 2: recuperation from something like that. I mean, sure there's the paintings,
Speaker 2: but then there's also just the other stuff that goes
Speaker 2: with it. To pain colors, I had to.
Speaker 3: I was on them for like four or five weeks,
Speaker 3: six weeks, and I came off. And I think it's
Speaker 3: when I came off that started listening to like faster
Speaker 3: stuff like tom Pey, you know, more high energy.
Speaker 2: Finally worked your way back up to like the cramps
Speaker 2: and stage, and then I.
Speaker 3: Was like, right, I go to get back on stage
Speaker 3: with the bands.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, what was that first show back, like
Speaker 2: after you injured yourself? Because we're a bit catious. So
Speaker 2: the first show.
Speaker 3: Back it was in Glasgow weeks I think after the
Speaker 3: break after the fall, and I had I was sang
Speaker 3: a lot of sitting in a chair and a high chair,
Speaker 3: and then for a couple of numbers I stood up
Speaker 3: and just hung on the mic. Then you know, I
Speaker 3: couldn't downce, you know, I was. So we did a
Speaker 3: did a couple of shows like that, and then I
Speaker 3: went and holed you to America and I was getting
Speaker 3: bettered by that point. End of August, the injury, the fall,
Speaker 3: what happened I think on the second of June, and
Speaker 3: then maybe midway through September, we did a gig with
Speaker 3: Massive Attack at the Downs and Bristol in front of
Speaker 3: thirty thousand people, and I started moving again. You know,
Speaker 3: I had to make and I was running to the
Speaker 3: edge of the stage, and you know, I'd been doing
Speaker 3: a lot of fezzio and swimming and stuff and a
Speaker 3: bit of running, and I was ready to rock.
Speaker 2: I'm all right, good. Let's start with talking about the
Speaker 2: Primal Scream record is about to come out. It's actually
Speaker 2: coming out this week. But there's also by the time
Speaker 2: that people hear this podcast, there will also be an
Speaker 2: accompanying documentary that goes with it that kind of adds
Speaker 2: some more context to it. But give out, but never
Speaker 2: give up the Memphis sessions, the recordings. For people that
Speaker 2: aren't entirely familiar with the context and the time what
Speaker 2: was going on, just start by telling us a little
Speaker 2: bit of the story. It's nineteen ninety three, Screaming delic
Speaker 2: has been out, you're following that up with a new record.
Speaker 2: You decide to head to Memphis to try some different
Speaker 2: as promised have done consistently throughout your career, But what
Speaker 2: was going through yourself in the band's minds when you're thinking, right,
Speaker 2: we're going to head to the Deep South and make
Speaker 2: a new record.
Speaker 3: The songs that we wrote after touring Schemi Delica quite extensively,
Speaker 3: we're rock songs, you know, rock country, so ballad mostly country,
Speaker 3: so ballads kind of dark damaged country, so ballads, and
Speaker 3: you know, with guitar riffs, and there was a step
Speaker 3: away from skimmy delicate and working with samplers and drum
Speaker 3: loops and you know Andrew Weather Alex parts and you
Speaker 3: know Weather by nineteen ninety two ninety three had he
Speaker 3: was getting. He was sort of getting a harder, more
Speaker 3: extreme techno, you know, very unemotional, but Andy would say
Speaker 3: it's emotional that you know, I found it unemotional. But
Speaker 3: we didn't think that it could work with, you know,
Speaker 3: the direction of songs that we were writing. So we
Speaker 3: tried to do some recording at the end of ninety
Speaker 3: two at the Rent Studio in London with Jimmy Miller
Speaker 3: who had produced The Stones and Traffic and Spencer Davis
Speaker 3: Group and Johnny Thunders and Motorhead, and we then ever
Speaker 3: worked out because Jimmy wasn't the best of shape and
Speaker 3: we weren't in the best of shape, and also we
Speaker 3: only had two songs, not enough to make an album.
Speaker 3: So those sessions folded after a while, you know, and
Speaker 3: then we reconvened. I think in the spring of nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety three. We'd had the idea to work with ask
Speaker 3: Tom Dowd to produce, and we'd loved his work with
Speaker 3: Retha Franko, you know, you know, he rod Sture and
Speaker 3: he'd worked with Eric Clapton. We didn't know that at
Speaker 3: that point, but you know, he'd record he'd produced Leila,
Speaker 3: and he'd also produced The Cream and engineered the Cream.
Speaker 3: He We didn't know that because we went into that music,
Speaker 3: but we knew the soul stuff that he'd worked on.
Speaker 3: We knew he'd worked with John Coltrane and my favorite Things,
Speaker 3: and he'd worked with Theretha and we were listening to
Speaker 3: a lot of Aretha and we needed a rhythm section,
Speaker 3: so we asked Roger Hawkins and David did from the
Speaker 3: Muscle Show rhythm rhythm section because we love their work,
Speaker 3: you know, with the staple Singers with Wilson Pickett, with
Speaker 3: Bos Skaggs, with Willie Nelson, Donni Fritz, lither Ingram. You know,
Speaker 3: they're playing a lot of our favorite records. So they
Speaker 3: all Tom and the Muscle shows guys came over to
Speaker 3: London and they rehearsed with us for two weeks and
Speaker 3: so we worked up versions, early versions of the songs,
Speaker 3: and then we headed down to Ardent Studios in Memphis,
Speaker 3: Tennessee to make the record.
Speaker 2: And Memphis, for you, was that a bit like stepping
Speaker 2: into a musical holy ground because so much of the
Speaker 2: music that you've been influenced by and loved kind of
Speaker 2: came from that area, that region, that part of America.
Speaker 2: So to actually, you know, land in Memphis and be
Speaker 2: like we're going to make a new record was that
Speaker 2: a special thing. It was very special.
Speaker 3: We had been to Memphis, I think November nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: one and we went with Andrew Weatheroor and we recorded
Speaker 3: some songs that became the dex and Arca EP, which
Speaker 3: was a top ten and here in the UK the
Speaker 3: lead track was moving on up. So we had already
Speaker 3: made a rock and roll pilgrimage to Memphis, and you know,
Speaker 3: went to Grace Lams and Sun Studios and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Was the first impressions of all that those because the
Speaker 2: iconic landmarks all around Memphis, I mean Graceland, like you mentioned,
Speaker 2: Sun Studio, kind of unassuming places, but such history in them.
Speaker 3: I never went to Sun Studios. Actually we drove past
Speaker 3: it every day, but I never went. I was to
Speaker 3: this thing when I was younger that if I went
Speaker 3: in and I would spoil the romance. I was wrong,
Speaker 3: you know. I went January this year. I finally got there.
Speaker 3: But I went to Gracelands in ninety one and then
Speaker 3: that was special. All of us went. And also the
Speaker 3: studio that we were recording an Orderance studio. One of
Speaker 3: their favorite old time albums have been recorded A Sister
Speaker 3: Lovers by Big Star, and that's why we went to
Speaker 3: that studio. It was an adventure, you know, so but
Speaker 3: really we were mostly in the studio working. You know,
Speaker 3: we don't have a lot of time get but I
Speaker 3: think you know that there was the scene of Memphis had.
Speaker 3: It was a lot different from the fifties, sixties, and
Speaker 3: even the seventies. By the time we got there in
Speaker 3: the late nineties, it was it seemed.
Speaker 2: Very quiet, you know, So those sessions in Memphis, being
Speaker 2: in that room in addent studios, What are your key
Speaker 2: memories from that that time in ninety.
Speaker 3: Memory, because it's a lot, such a long time ago,
Speaker 3: and we've I've made we made so many records and
Speaker 3: toured and written so many songs since. I've seen some
Speaker 3: film that was shot and that that was, that was
Speaker 3: that was nice to see. And I've I've seen a
Speaker 3: couple of photos. It's not that much. We never documented
Speaker 3: ourselves in those days. I think I was superstitious that
Speaker 3: if you had a photographer in the studio, he would
Speaker 3: spoil the magic, you know, so which I think again
Speaker 3: was wrong. But back then and even still today, you know,
Speaker 3: making a record was a very it was like a
Speaker 3: battle between good and evil. You know. It was like
Speaker 3: a real knife edge stuff. So the less people and
Speaker 3: the way, the better, you know. So it's a shame
Speaker 3: because we don't have documentation, but or we don't have
Speaker 3: much documentation. But I just remember working very hard. You know.
Speaker 3: The band shared an apartment, six rooms of rooms, and
Speaker 3: we every day, you know, we get up and breakfast,
Speaker 3: play table tennis, and then we go to the studio.
Speaker 3: And at twelve, I think midday and start working with Roger,
Speaker 3: David and Tom and work until whenever Tom decided we
Speaker 3: should finish, maybe have a couple of drinks after it,
Speaker 3: then go back back home. What's your bet? Italian? And
Speaker 3: Tom Dowold demanded quiet, you know, he demanded respect because
Speaker 3: of his He was a good you know, he's obviously
Speaker 3: he had a great track record of music, and he
Speaker 3: was a real gentleman and a really intelligent man and
Speaker 3: a very courteous He was a gentleman, and you know,
Speaker 3: you wanted to do your best, not just for yourself
Speaker 3: and your band, but for Tom, you know, for even
Speaker 3: you know, we were flower that he would want to
Speaker 3: work with us, you know. So, I mean he was
Speaker 3: at sixty seven years of age at that point, and
Speaker 3: he did a long and illustrious career. As they say,
Speaker 3: you know, it's very successful. So I was still writing
Speaker 3: a lot of the lyrics for the songs. I'd have
Speaker 3: like maybe a couple, you know, a few songs, I
Speaker 3: would have all the verses and choruses, and for some
Speaker 3: others I would just maybe have like a first verse
Speaker 3: and a chorus, and I didn't have a seting verse
Speaker 3: you know, or a middle ay or a coder, you know,
Speaker 3: or there's chunks of lyrics missing, and but you know,
Speaker 3: I had the idea of what the song should be about,
Speaker 3: and so I felt that pressure when I was going
Speaker 3: to in a Memphis. I felt, oh my god, I
Speaker 3: don't want to hold this recording, but I've got to deliver,
Speaker 3: you know. And also we had the pressure of following
Speaker 3: up Screaming Delica. And then of course and Alan McGee
Speaker 3: had sold his label Creation to Sony for a lot
Speaker 3: of money, so they wanted they wanted some payback as well.
Speaker 2: I think, so these original Memphis recordings that people are
Speaker 2: going to get to, Hey, now, how did the conversations
Speaker 2: go when you came back from Memphis. You've got this
Speaker 2: collections of songs. Did you as a band feel that
Speaker 2: they went't right? Was that? Did that come out of
Speaker 2: the process of speaking to people like Ana McGee? Like?
Speaker 2: How did it all happen?
Speaker 3: It happened immediately in Memphis when Tom played as these mixes,
Speaker 3: we three of us, Andrew myself and Robert Young just
Speaker 3: we went in a room side rim spoke for about
Speaker 3: twenty minutes, and we came out of the room and
Speaker 3: we said to Tom, we want to start remixing some
Speaker 3: of the songs. So I think we began with Joebird.
Speaker 3: We took the horns off because we felt the horns
Speaker 3: were covering up the guitar, Robert Young's incredible filthy guitar raf.
Speaker 3: We started from there and then we started, you know,
Speaker 3: it was things were turned the guitars up, turn of
Speaker 3: drums down, turned the vocal down, you know, turn the
Speaker 3: back of vocals down, and take the horns off. And
Speaker 3: then we began doing things like we re recorded the
Speaker 3: song Big Jet Plane in Memphis with Tom producing. You know,
Speaker 3: I mean, the version on this album that had just
Speaker 3: been released is so beautiful. Why we wanted to record that,
Speaker 3: I don't know, because that song and that version of
Speaker 3: that song with that arrangement is the exact reason why
Speaker 3: we went to Memphis and work with Roger, David and Tom.
Speaker 3: In the first place, we must have been insane, maybe
Speaker 3: we don't know why. It might have been an immaturity
Speaker 3: and insecurity in our party.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know why.
Speaker 3: So then we went back to England and Alan McGee
Speaker 3: wasn't enthusiastic, and he was normally very enthusiastic about Primo
Speaker 3: scream stuff like that. When he heard her and the
Speaker 3: son for the first time, he called me up and said,
Speaker 3: we're gonna have to release this as a single. It's
Speaker 3: not going to be a hat but it doesn't matter
Speaker 3: because it's a statement. You've made the best record of
Speaker 3: the year, you know, and you know, our the best
Speaker 3: record of the best single of the nineties, you know.
Speaker 3: Always quite hyperbolic, and so I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: released as a single, you know, will proudly do that.
Speaker 3: But this time he was a and also actually made
Speaker 3: a trip to Memphis during the recording, and he does well,
Speaker 3: he doesn't remember being there. He said he was stuck
Speaker 3: to a wall for three days.
Speaker 2: He was like fro.
Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness, frozen, frozen and cocaine. And I don't
Speaker 3: really remember him being there. Vaguely. Apparently Jeff barrettur publicist,
Speaker 3: was there, and I don't remember him being there either,
Speaker 3: Jeff who.
Speaker 2: Runs there, no memory of Jeff being there. So it was.
Speaker 3: And that's not just you know, we were sober, and
Speaker 3: most of the time in the studio, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: a couple of lines, you know, to do some vocals
Speaker 3: or something, but we were mostly you know, we're really together,
Speaker 3: so it's just such a long time ago. And but yeah,
Speaker 3: when we came back, there was no real enthusiasm for
Speaker 3: the recordings, and well, I think we were all unsure,
Speaker 3: you know, Alan always wanted I think also as well,
Speaker 3: what we brought back were the remixes that we've done, right,
Speaker 3: which aren't as good as the Tom David ones. You know,
Speaker 3: Rowing Number one. Never let the band there, especially the
Speaker 3: guitar players, guitars Louder and Alan from day one and
Speaker 3: one of George Daculis to produce, because George was a
Speaker 3: friend of Alan's and he was a young guy. He
Speaker 3: was the same as us. He loved exactly the same
Speaker 3: music as us, but he was he had a lot
Speaker 3: of success with the Black Crows, who were getting like
Speaker 3: selling a lot of albums. So Alan felt this would
Speaker 3: be good for us. But we were coming from a
Speaker 3: different place from the Black you know, from the Black Crows,
Speaker 3: and we were looking for something else. You know. There
Speaker 3: was this suggestion from Alan, why don't we a George
Speaker 3: to remix the tracks, and George said, well, you know,
Speaker 3: I think he spoke to Andrew and us and he said, look,
Speaker 3: if I if I just if I re record the band,
Speaker 3: it will sound pretty much like what you've done with Tom.
Speaker 3: But why don't I just try to do some remix,
Speaker 3: you know, and I just try something slightly different, you know,
Speaker 3: and make it more stupid, you know. He goes, I
Speaker 3: can't make it any better, but I can make it
Speaker 3: more stupid. And those were his immortal words. When they
Speaker 3: replayed the bass, the Andrew and Has replayed the guitar,
Speaker 3: they whacked huge drum beat under Rocks and under Jailbird,
Speaker 3: and I guess made it more contemporary, more nineties. And
Speaker 3: you know, al McGee felt that the Dowd mixes weren't
Speaker 3: edgy enough and they weren't contemporary enough because it was
Speaker 3: at the time of grunge, Nirvan and Pearl Jam, and
Speaker 3: it was at the very beginning of Brick Pope and stuff.
Speaker 3: So when we heard the George mixes of Jailbird, Rocks
Speaker 3: and Crimes are blind Out, you know, they were they
Speaker 3: sounded like hits, you know. And then we started re
Speaker 3: recording the rest of the album, calling me I think
Speaker 3: everybody needs Somebody as a demo on the original ninety
Speaker 3: four album, and all this stuff was lost until Andre
Speaker 3: and us found the tape and has has ex Sailor
Speaker 3: two years ago?
Speaker 2: Is it as I try to imagine? Yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: he was rooting around for there's a dusty old box
Speaker 2: somewhere that he uncovered and found this stuff again literally
Speaker 2: in his basement.
Speaker 3: It was a box fiell of tapes and dark tapes,
Speaker 3: cassette tapes and dark tapes.
Speaker 2: And he did he get Did he call you up
Speaker 2: and say, hey, I found something you might want to
Speaker 2: listen to you here? How did it happen?
Speaker 3: Well, he sent off for a cassette recorder because he
Speaker 3: didn't have one anymore special. Yeah, but he sent off
Speaker 3: for one that could a plug that went from a
Speaker 3: cassette and at the computer because he felt maybe he
Speaker 3: would only ever have one chance of playing us the
Speaker 3: tape would.
Speaker 2: Break because it could have been thus forever. Then it's
Speaker 2: a smart guy.
Speaker 3: And he taped and then he sent an mp th
Speaker 3: to me and the headline for the head and for
Speaker 3: the email was like what I've just I was like
Speaker 3: and I lessened to it.
Speaker 2: I was like, WHOA.
Speaker 3: When I heard everybody needs somebody free calling me, I
Speaker 3: was like, my god, this is incredible, you know we've
Speaker 3: got to release us.
Speaker 2: And how do you look back on the whole experience then, because,
Speaker 2: like you say, you made some decisions whilst you're out
Speaker 2: in Memphis, you came back you kind of almost to
Speaker 2: an extent, rebuilt built the record and presented it in
Speaker 2: a different light. So is it nice now to be
Speaker 2: able to to share what is the kind of the nucleus,
Speaker 2: the original stuff there.
Speaker 3: It's a real pleasure to release this album and let
Speaker 3: people hear what we what we did down there. For
Speaker 3: many years, I felt kind of creative wind that we'd
Speaker 3: gone to Memphis and worked with Tom and the Muscle
Speaker 3: shows guys, and we're taking a bunch of really create songs,
Speaker 3: and that we we'd messed up, that we had field
Speaker 3: And I honestly didn't know about this tape because you know,
Speaker 3: we toured Give Out and then we went straight in
Speaker 3: a vanishing point in nineteen ninety five. I think I
Speaker 3: took it. We Are, took a year of ninety six,
Speaker 3: wrote record a vanishing point, and then we just from
Speaker 3: then on, we just kept making albums in tour. So
Speaker 3: this was just forgotten about it, because you know, we
Speaker 3: we it was a very brave thing. I think to
Speaker 3: go to Memphis to work with these guys who no
Speaker 3: one knew about anymore. They were all guys and we
Speaker 3: were like a very hit band. We were young. We'd
Speaker 3: made Skim of Delica. We everybody loved Scheming Delica, and
Speaker 3: they wanted Scheme of de like a part two, and we.
Speaker 2: Made way totally different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then we never released it. But you know,
Speaker 3: so you can now hear the intention and the truth
Speaker 3: and that I think there's a lot. It's quite a
Speaker 3: sad record, and I think it's a very raw, emotional,
Speaker 3: open record, And maybe that was part of the reason
Speaker 3: why we never released it like this. Maybe we were
Speaker 3: a bit embarrassed about it. Maybe I don't know, do
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, because that I might be
Speaker 3: wrong there. Because the albums that came after the Vanishing Point,
Speaker 3: the Shutters went up emotionally, the lyrics were less, they
Speaker 3: were more guarded and more hiding behind imagery. They were
Speaker 3: less direct, and then on the album after that, Exterminator,
Speaker 3: it was just real anger and you know behind you know,
Speaker 3: like an unfit them in her cocaine wall of rage,
Speaker 3: and you know, we were kind of like it was
Speaker 3: everything was it was outward anger to cover up the
Speaker 3: rage inside. You know. It was really there wasn't hardly
Speaker 3: any fragility or tenderness on that record, you know, so
Speaker 3: it's kind of like hiding, you know, you were kind
Speaker 3: of hiding behind rage, you know. And also the lyrics
Speaker 3: became more fractured, but they became more fractured because my
Speaker 3: mind was becoming more fractured and my life was becoming
Speaker 3: more fractured. So there's you know, it is reflected in
Speaker 3: your art. But I think with this album, the give Up,
Speaker 3: they'll give up original Memphis sessions. There's a real it's
Speaker 3: kind of love Lauren and you know, and it's like,
Speaker 3: I guess the narrator and the songs is a creating
Speaker 3: some kind of connection.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: When the time you get Vanishing Point Exterminy, it's like
Speaker 3: fuck connection, you know, it's like fuck the world, fuck everybody.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's like a cold rage and
Speaker 3: a complete disconnection. And I guess drugs compounded and helped
Speaker 3: that disconnection, you know, or that sense of isolation. So
Speaker 3: I think, you know, this is you know, some people
Speaker 3: think that Vanishing Point was to come down for Schema delicate.
Speaker 3: This is you know this is Scimi Delicate was the
Speaker 3: transcending acid House, high energy, you know, kind of rave
Speaker 3: rock and roll record, and you know it was at
Speaker 3: a time of possibilities. Acid House was a time of
Speaker 3: This record's a bit darker, I think, and a bit
Speaker 3: more yeah, more raw and more open. And I think
Speaker 3: it's interesting to hear that I really love this record,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean even like in the records a
Speaker 3: song called Free and you know, I never sang it,
Speaker 3: and we asked Denise Johnson to sing it and she
Speaker 3: sings it really beautifully. And I still don't know why
Speaker 3: I never sang it. I think I lost confidence, you
Speaker 3: know something. And but it's I wrote the lyrics, I
Speaker 3: wrote the melody. I was like, you know it was
Speaker 3: it's a very open, emotional, truthful song, and yeah, I
Speaker 3: never sang it. So yeah, that was a strange.
Speaker 2: That was strange when you think of like the Primo
Speaker 2: screen discography, then do you think there is an arc
Speaker 2: to you being You talked there about the rawness of
Speaker 2: You've always loved like kind of raw, confessional, very honest lyrics,
Speaker 2: and that's typified by a lot of the music that
Speaker 2: comes from the deep stuff. And so music and then
Speaker 2: you said, I kind of shut down for a while,
Speaker 2: and I put, you know, the guard went up. These days,
Speaker 2: it feels like to me that the guards very much
Speaker 2: back down again. So is that how you feel about things? Like,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe the that time spent kind of being
Speaker 2: on a lot of you know, chemically influenced things meant
Speaker 2: that you were you felt a lot more guarded. And
Speaker 2: then with not being then there's like a rawness that
Speaker 2: comes to the fore.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, part of you know, there's
Speaker 3: you know, there's many reasons why one would take drugs
Speaker 3: or alcohol, you know, and be addicted. But you know,
Speaker 3: I know that I certainly know that it's two numb
Speaker 3: feelings of shame or humiliation or you know, lack of
Speaker 3: self confidence and you know, lovelessness, you know. And I
Speaker 3: guess drugs they make you feel, you know, certain drugs
Speaker 3: or alcohol. You know, it can make you feel powerful
Speaker 3: for a while. When you're numb, you don't feel, And
Speaker 3: I guess that's part of the reason you're taking the
Speaker 3: drugs in lease the tires and yourself. You know, you're
Speaker 3: trying not to feel so that you can stay alive.
Speaker 3: And I guess function in some way. And a part
Speaker 3: of the problem with that is that it definitely makes you, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it shuts you off from your feelings and your emotions,
Speaker 3: and you're and you're you're kind of hiding, you know,
Speaker 3: you're hiding and playing sights. So maybe some of the
Speaker 3: lyrical work and the sound of the records shows that,
Speaker 3: you know, because as I said, lyrics became more fractured
Speaker 3: more you know, yeah, just a bit more symbolism, more fractured,
Speaker 3: a bit more still trying to express stuff, but in
Speaker 3: a way that was hidden, and maybe only I could
Speaker 3: understand what it was, you know, and and maybe it
Speaker 3: was a fear of revealing myself. But I think that
Speaker 3: it's kind of like you're going deep inside your how
Speaker 3: you know, you've got a strong interior life, and you
Speaker 3: you just don't you don't want to come out, and
Speaker 3: it's really depression. I think, you know, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: that's it's like it's a reaction to depression. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, you you go really inward and you but
Speaker 3: at the same time, because you're an artist, you've got
Speaker 3: creative words and you want to express yourself, but you've
Speaker 3: got to find a different way of expressing yourself and
Speaker 3: maybe in this album, the lyrics were either very influenced
Speaker 3: by country music and soul music and blues music, which
Speaker 3: is very honest, direct, raw and open and tells it
Speaker 3: like it is. And to me, that's my favorite type
Speaker 3: of songwriting and lyric, you know, lyric writing. And I
Speaker 3: really was I wanted to become you know, simply sophisticated
Speaker 3: or sophisticatedly simple, you know, like Hank Williams, and that
Speaker 3: was that's my aim. And then you know, I started
Speaker 3: hiding behind imagery and as I say, you know, fractured,
Speaker 3: cut up kind of stuff like a influenced by William
Speaker 3: Burrows and you know, that kind of but that was
Speaker 3: good as well, because it's you know, I love words
Speaker 3: and I love playing with words, and I love getting
Speaker 3: different meanings that you know, you know, like you know,
Speaker 3: even when they use these political terms like collateral damage,
Speaker 3: you know when they give you know, like they take
Speaker 3: a phrase and give it a different meaning, well, like
Speaker 3: to take that phase and give it another.
Speaker 2: Different meaning, you know, you know, you know.
Speaker 3: Also the sound became harder with Primal Scream, you know,
Speaker 3: this was also this record. The reason it's different is
Speaker 3: because it's bluesy, and it's bluesy because of Robert Young's
Speaker 3: blues guitar playing. And Robert after this album sort of
Speaker 3: had a lot of problems, you know, and he began
Speaker 3: contributing less to the band, and so his guitar playing
Speaker 3: was I used to lead the songs. These lead He
Speaker 3: would write these incredible riffs. I would, you know, I'd
Speaker 3: write words and melodies that would they would. It was sympathetic,
Speaker 3: you know, to the sound and the emotion that he
Speaker 3: was playing. So whether it was you know, something raw
Speaker 3: and dirty like jail about the Rocks, or you know,
Speaker 3: or something gentle like crime myself, blind or everybody somebody,
Speaker 3: I would. But I had the same feelings and emotions
Speaker 3: as he had. You know, we we were somewhere in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways. But but when Robert wasn't around,
Speaker 3: you know, creatively, the band, the sound of the band
Speaker 3: completely changed. You know. That's why Vanishing Point and Exterminators
Speaker 3: sound completely different because and then this is a blues record.
Speaker 3: That's why I love it as well. And it's a
Speaker 3: blues record because of Robert Young.
Speaker 2: The documentary then that goes along with the release of this,
Speaker 2: these Memphis sessions, it's going to be broadcast on the BBC.
Speaker 2: But tell me a little bit about how that's come together.
Speaker 2: You got to go back to Memphis for it. That's
Speaker 2: that Foremo's part of it. How do you find Memphis
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: When we went to Memphis in the nineties, we were
Speaker 3: there was a lot of pressure on us to you know,
Speaker 3: because we had to make a great record, and we'd
Speaker 3: put this pressure on ourselves because we just wanted to
Speaker 3: make a classic album and you know, and follow up
Speaker 3: scheme of Day, like we just we had this chance.
Speaker 3: We've been waiting for years to try and you know,
Speaker 3: be this great band, and we finally felt we were
Speaker 3: a great band and we had it in us to
Speaker 3: make a great record. And so there was a big
Speaker 3: pressure which we put on ourselves. You know, I'll mcgaine
Speaker 3: ever put that on us or Sony. We it was
Speaker 3: something that we put in ourselves. We're very hard on ourselves.
Speaker 3: So this time we went as Andrew and myself, we
Speaker 3: just it was a bit more pleasurable because there was
Speaker 3: no there was no pressure. We just had to go
Speaker 3: and you know, be interviewed and ardent studios and be filmed.
Speaker 3: You know, some Phillips Recording Services and me Jerry Phillips
Speaker 3: with some Philips has some really amazing stuff. And we
Speaker 3: met William Magleston, who was the photographers whose photograph was
Speaker 3: on the original give Up, We Don't give Up cover
Speaker 3: We won't meet William and that was lovely, So we
Speaker 3: had a lovely time.
Speaker 2: Throughout your career, Primal Screen have been characterized by always
Speaker 2: kind of moving forward, you know, always the progression of
Speaker 2: sound each time you've made a record, the look and
Speaker 2: feel of things. So this is the odd moment in
Speaker 2: Primal Screen's career where you do a little bit of
Speaker 2: looking back. I'm not saying this is like a wholesale
Speaker 2: kind of nostalgic thing, but you haven't done a lot
Speaker 2: of that over the career. So was it nice to
Speaker 2: do just a little bit of reminiscing, Well, it was,
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 3: It's been incredible because everybody that hears us our album
Speaker 3: seems to love it and we'll get really getting really
Speaker 3: great reactions for it. And did the BBC thought the
Speaker 3: story was and interesting enough to you know, to commission
Speaker 3: you know, a documentary, So that was that was great
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm glad it's about this album, you know,
Speaker 3: because I think it's a really beautiful album and it's
Speaker 3: very heartfelt, and it really shows Robert to be a
Speaker 3: fantastic musician and he very so soulful guy, you know,
Speaker 3: and an incredible musician, and he's a great guy. And
Speaker 3: he's dead man, you know, it's but he's I know
Speaker 3: it sounds a bit nostalgic or whatever, but he's not dead.
Speaker 3: Because as long as you can hear this record, you
Speaker 3: can feel the soul of Robert Young, whether as I say,
Speaker 3: it's a dirty, filthy runch of jailbird or the you know,
Speaker 3: the very pray epic guitar player, or the you know,
Speaker 3: the broken heart and blues of Everybody needs Somebody this
Speaker 3: you can hear the man and his and his music.
Speaker 2: After this tripped him Emphis, what kind of conversations did
Speaker 2: you have with Andrew? Did it? It didn't make you think, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe primost Game could get act to Memphis one day
Speaker 2: and make a record. Well, funnily enough, we met David
Speaker 2: Hood on this trip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we met David Hood. He came up to me
Speaker 3: is some muscle shows and he told us that there
Speaker 3: was a film a bit of famous studios and Rick
Speaker 3: hole a couple of years back, and which tells the
Speaker 3: story of muscle shows sound. You know, muscle shows music.
Speaker 3: Dr Dre had seen and he loved us so much
Speaker 3: that Dr Dre and Jimmy Ivy and came in with
Speaker 3: some money and said the why don't you build rebuild
Speaker 3: the original studio you know three six one for Jackson
Speaker 3: Highvey I think it is. And so they've rebuilt the
Speaker 3: studio and you know sit similar mixing desks in the
Speaker 3: sixties seventies, and apparently it looks exactly like it was
Speaker 3: back then. So he's invited us to go and make
Speaker 3: a record. So at some point it would be great
Speaker 3: to go to muscle shows and play with the guys again.
Speaker 3: I don't know if David, sorry, I don't know if
Speaker 3: Roger's still playing the drummers Roger Hawkins, but I think
Speaker 3: David still playing.
Speaker 2: You know some of that Beats headphones money is going
Speaker 2: back into it the back end. You have music productivity.
Speaker 3: It's so it's so amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, away from the Memphis recordings that people are going
Speaker 2: to get to hear, now, how are things with primal
Speaker 2: scream At the moment, You've played a smattering of gigs
Speaker 2: this year. But if you've been back with Andrew kind
Speaker 2: of working hard as you normally do when you're away
Speaker 2: from touring.
Speaker 3: We recorded an album this summer, but we it's hard
Speaker 3: to explain what it is. Is something different, and we're
Speaker 3: still working on it. Indeed, we were working on it
Speaker 3: yesterday and we're still mixing and but it's a very
Speaker 3: interesting project and it's different and it doesn't sound like
Speaker 3: anything we've done before. And but we don't know if
Speaker 3: it's going to be prim or scream.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll find out in due course.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I know, it's it's hard. I
Speaker 3: wish I could tell you, but it's still.
Speaker 2: It's it's still in the it's in the working program.
Speaker 3: It's case it's and it's going to be a beautiful album,
Speaker 3: you know. But it's it's emotional. It's gone back to emotion,
Speaker 3: you know, and which is what I want to That's
Speaker 3: all I want to do is make emotional, heart feel
Speaker 3: music that makes people feel, you know. That's it.
Speaker 1: M Midnight Chat is a loud and quiet podcast music
Speaker 1: courtesy of gold Panda. Search Midnight Chats on iTunes for
Speaker 1: more episodes and to subscribe for more information visit loud
Speaker 1: and quiet dot com.