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Speaker 1: It's a mental strategy where you act as if you

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Speaker 1: are the thing you're trying to become. So for me

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Speaker 1: that was I am a Boston champion and every day

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Speaker 1: for three months, you know, I went out and practiced

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Speaker 1: like a champion. I ate like a champion, I slept

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Speaker 1: like a champion, like whatever it was, it was like,

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Speaker 1: is this is this what a Boston Marathon champion would do?

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hurdlers, Emily a body here with episode one oh

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Speaker 2: four of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I sit

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Speaker 2: down with inspiring individuals to talk about everything from their

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Speaker 2: big wins to how they've gotten through some of life's

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Speaker 2: toughest moments. On the show, you can expect vulnerability, motivation,

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Speaker 2: and candid discussions with everyone from top athletes to aspiring

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurs on what it really takes to follow you your passions.

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Speaker 2: My mission is simple to inspire you to be your

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Speaker 2: best self, move with intention, and have some fun along

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Speaker 2: the way. Today I am bringing you a conversation that

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Speaker 2: could not be better timed as today was the original

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty run date for the Boston Marathon. If I

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Speaker 2: could hear you on the other end of this thing,

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Speaker 2: I know you are excited, because I am excited to

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Speaker 2: Today I am chatting with the ever lovely Dez Lindon,

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Speaker 2: pro runner, twenty eighteen Boston Marathon champ, and total rock

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Speaker 2: star upfront. I am just going to tell you right

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Speaker 2: off the bat. When I edit the show, I earmark

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Speaker 2: all of the different moments that I could see being

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Speaker 2: pull quotes, you know, the gems of wisdom from guests

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Speaker 2: that make me go yes out loud. I marked way

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Speaker 2: too many to count in this episode. I've known Dez

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Speaker 2: for a few years now, and this opportunity us sitting

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Speaker 2: down one on one has been something that I have

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Speaker 2: looked forward to for quite some time. I want to

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Speaker 2: get into all of this goodness as soon as possible,

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Speaker 2: so I'll just give you a quick overview here on Dez. Today,

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Speaker 2: she is without a doubt, leading the charge in American

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Speaker 2: woman's distance running, and in this week's episode, we talk

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Speaker 2: about how she got there growing up in San Diego

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Speaker 2: running in college at Arizona State, she knew from a

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Speaker 2: young age that this sport was her sport. Today, she

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Speaker 2: talks me through so many of her career milestones, the good,

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Speaker 2: including that famous Boston win on the worst weather day

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Speaker 2: ever and the bad the London Olympics, and an entire

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Speaker 2: month in twenty seventeen when she went without lacing up

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Speaker 2: even once. Like I said, the takeaways in this one

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Speaker 2: are endless, and we also talk about what's next for her,

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Speaker 2: which might just require this lady to pick up the

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Speaker 2: pace before we get into it. Taking just a few

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Speaker 2: minutes to call out my sponsors and then bringing you

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Speaker 2: today's episode uninterrupted. Now, des and I touch on the

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Speaker 2: importance of adequately fueling your body as one piece of

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Speaker 2: the puzzle to optimal performance. Now, I myself am always

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Speaker 2: looking for something that can give me a natural edge,

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Speaker 2: No code necessary. As usual, hit me up on social

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Speaker 2: media if you like what you're listening to. I am

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Speaker 2: at Emily a Body and of course at Hurdle Podcast.

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Speaker 2: If you have a hurdle moment of your own to share,

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Speaker 2: or you just want to say hi, maybe send a

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Speaker 2: love letter. I'm all ears over email as well. It's

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Speaker 2: Emily at hurdle dot us. With that, let's get to

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Speaker 2: hurdling today. I'm sitting down with Dez Lindon. She is

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Speaker 2: a two time Olympian, the twenty eighteen Boston Marathon champion,

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Speaker 2: a household name when it comes to running. How are

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Speaker 2: you doing there?

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Speaker 1: Does I'm doing all right? Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to this for a while. That

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Speaker 2: feels like a total, total understatement. My first question for

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Speaker 2: you today is what does showing up look like? Right now?

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Speaker 1: Staying home is showing up, which is okay. I think

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Speaker 1: it is an always changing, evolving thing and it's what

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Speaker 1: we need to do at the moment. So showing up

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Speaker 1: is using this time wisely and figuring out how to

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Speaker 1: make the best of it for you. For me, that's

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Speaker 1: just doing some base mileage, going out, enjoying fresh air,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll switch gears soon and maybe just find

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Speaker 1: a way to be productive and get a little bit

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Speaker 1: better during this time. And I think that might be

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Speaker 1: a speed segment.

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Speaker 2: So when you say a speed segment for you, what

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Speaker 2: does something like that look.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, back in the day that was like a three

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Speaker 1: k or a five k. Now it'll be a ten k.

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Speaker 1: So I haven't been on the track in a really

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Speaker 1: long time and just turning the legs over really quickly.

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Speaker 1: The Olympic Trials is kind of looming out there, and

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Speaker 1: I was just curious if I could even you know,

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Speaker 1: get the standard and be in that race. And so

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Speaker 1: we'll have a chance to find out and I might

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Speaker 1: start realize that's a horrible idea and I hate it.

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Speaker 1: So we'll find out some stuff right now.

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Speaker 2: We'll find out some stuff right now. Okay, So I

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Speaker 2: would love to kick us off today by actually dialing

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Speaker 2: it back back and talking about the humble beginnings of DEAs.

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Speaker 2: So let's bring it back.

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Speaker 1: I was a soccer player as a young kid, through

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Speaker 1: and through. I started when I was about five and

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Speaker 1: loved it. But I'm still small to this day, so

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Speaker 1: I haven't done all the growing up, and I was

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Speaker 1: a pretty small kid when I started, so it was

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Speaker 1: kind of survival. In order to survive soccer and be

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Speaker 1: decent at it, I had to be first to the

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Speaker 1: ball and quick is to get off my foot. So

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Speaker 1: it was really being faster and running the entire game

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Speaker 1: and having quick feet.

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Speaker 2: When it wasn't soccer season, what other things were you doing?

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Speaker 2: Were you playing other sports? Were you running a little

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Speaker 2: bit or none of that?

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Speaker 1: Just none of it just yet. My parents were pretty

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Speaker 1: strict about having to do some type of activity, whether

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Speaker 1: it was sports or something else. I just really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: soccer and sports in general. So it was for me

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Speaker 1: soccer two seasons, and then softball was the off season,

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Speaker 1: and I hated it. It was so slow. It was just

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Speaker 1: bad at it. It was too small and the game

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Speaker 1: was too slow. So the rule was you could never

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Speaker 1: quit in a season, but after you could decide to

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Speaker 1: do something else. So after a couple of years of

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Speaker 1: struggling at softball, I just started decided to start staying

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Speaker 1: shape for soccer and got into cross country and track.

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Speaker 2: When you first started out in cross country and track,

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Speaker 2: were you one of the key players right from the

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Speaker 2: get go or was that something that you had to

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Speaker 2: build up some fitness.

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Speaker 1: I mean I had a lot in the bank just

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Speaker 1: because I did so much running around the field. But

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Speaker 1: I joined a team called the MLK Blasters, and it

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Speaker 1: was a total sprint team one hundred two hundred four

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Speaker 1: hundred meters specialty, and I was the only distance runner,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't really have anyone to like measure myself

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Speaker 1: up against. The coach just kind of like, we'll figure

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Speaker 1: it out and slowly built a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: distance program with me and a few other athletes coming

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Speaker 1: in shortly after. But yeah, I was pretty decent in

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Speaker 1: the races I would do. But even on that team,

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Speaker 1: one of my teammates was Money Kenderson, who. If you're

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Speaker 1: from San Diego, you recognize the name. If you're a

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Speaker 1: fan of track and field, you probably would remember it.

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Speaker 1: But she made an Olympic team as a high school

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Speaker 1: or set the high school four hundred meter record I

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Speaker 1: think several times during her four years in high school.

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Speaker 1: She was just a phenomenal athlete. So she was the

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Speaker 1: person kind of setting the bar and she was going

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Speaker 1: to be an Olympia and you knew as a junior

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Speaker 1: athlete she was going to be really good. So it

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Speaker 1: was like, even if you were having success, you measured

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Speaker 1: it up to her and you're like, well, I got

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Speaker 1: a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a problem that a lot of

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Speaker 2: us kind of dabble in time and time. Again, it's

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Speaker 2: like that comparison trap, right, So even from a young age,

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Speaker 2: it's like you're just getting into running and you see

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Speaker 2: this person totally excelling, and do you have the moments

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Speaker 2: then of I need to be better or at that

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Speaker 2: point is it still just fun and games.

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Speaker 1: It was fun and games, and it was also incredibly

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Speaker 1: inspiring because we knew how good Moonique was, but it

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Speaker 1: was okay to dream like, well maybe I could make

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Speaker 1: it to the Olympics one day, or maybe I could

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Speaker 1: be that good. It was just you know, something real

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Speaker 1: and right next to you where you're like, oh, practice

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Speaker 1: with her every day, why wouldn't I progress to that level?

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Speaker 1: So for me, maybe I was just kind of naive

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Speaker 1: and silly about it, but it was always pretty fun

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Speaker 1: to be around.

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Speaker 2: Did you have an affinity when you were doing all

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Speaker 2: different types of distances for either the quick stuff or

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Speaker 2: the long stuff.

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Speaker 1: I loved the fifteen hundred meters, and even as a

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Speaker 1: youth runner like the three K I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of long. I don't really want to do

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Speaker 1: that in eight hundred meters. Fifteen hundred meters that was

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Speaker 1: my sweet spot.

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Speaker 2: The sweet spot after high school. You're gearing up to

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Speaker 2: go to college and you go to Arizona State and

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Speaker 2: what's running like for you there?

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Speaker 1: It was super fun. I mean, it was just a

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Speaker 1: great program. I visited a lot of different schools and

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Speaker 1: a lot of really great education based universities, and my

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Speaker 1: parents were like, you're going to get to Arizona State?

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? But I loved the team and

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Speaker 1: they had really come out of no where and taking

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Speaker 1: you know, local kids who weren't world beaters and made

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Speaker 1: them a lot better. And so when I met Walt Drint,

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Speaker 1: the coach there, I was like, this guy seems like

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Speaker 1: a guy who can get people to the next level.

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Speaker 1: And that's just what the culture and the experience was.

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Speaker 1: The whole time I was there. It was you know,

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Speaker 1: people just having breakthroughs and improving and really getting the

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Speaker 1: best out of themselves. So it was fun to be

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Speaker 1: a part of. In the you know, general mood was

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Speaker 1: that we're going to be great, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: be competing for national championships and you know, top level spots.

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Speaker 1: So it was fun to be a part of.

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Speaker 2: Did you know while you were in college and pursuing

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Speaker 2: life as a college athlete that you wanted to take

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Speaker 2: that to the next level when you were done there.

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Speaker 1: I always enjoyed it and I could compete with, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, train with some really great runners like Amy

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Speaker 1: Hastings at the time, Victoria Jackson. We had you know,

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Speaker 1: multiple packed ten champions at the time, and I could

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Speaker 1: do all the work with them. So it didn't seem

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Speaker 1: far fetch that I could keep going after college and

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Speaker 1: sort of see how far I could go. But I

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Speaker 1: had never had the performance where I knocked it out

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Speaker 1: of the park. That gave me a ton of opportunities

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Speaker 1: to take that next step, just like catching the eye

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Speaker 1: of an agent, earth sponsor, so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: So I always felt it was there. I just hadn't

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Speaker 1: done it quite yet, which made it harder to, you know,

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Speaker 1: take those next few steps.

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Speaker 2: So one of the biggest first steps you have after

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Speaker 2: college is the two thousand and seven Boston Marathon, your

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Speaker 2: first big marathon. Do you remember much about that race?

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Speaker 1: I do. It was the nor'easter, so it was like

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Speaker 1: the rainy cold, you know. Buzz around the hotel was

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Speaker 1: that they might cancel it because it's so bad out,

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Speaker 1: and I was really, it's pretty full circle. But I

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Speaker 1: was like this, I've worked so hard for that, and

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Speaker 1: I really, you know, enjoyed the training getting ready for it.

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Speaker 1: And actually I was with Hanson's Brooks then, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of pushed back and forth on how

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Speaker 1: fast I should be running this race. I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to go faster and better than you're giving

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Speaker 1: me credit for. And they were kind of like, let's

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Speaker 1: just tick the box and get you one under your

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Speaker 1: belt and moving forward. And so the weather kind of

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Speaker 1: squashed all the arguments and it was like, let's just

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Speaker 1: be conservative. But on race day, it was it was

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Speaker 1: so much fun. I just I was probably one of

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Speaker 1: the only people who was like, these crowds are amazing,

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Speaker 1: this race is amazing, Like I love this experience, and

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Speaker 1: everyone else is like this.

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Speaker 2: Is obviously as we kind of equipped about definitely foreshadowing

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Speaker 2: Boston twenty eighteen, but we're not there. Just yeah, So

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Speaker 2: you run this first marathon and from the moment that

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Speaker 2: you cross that finish line, are you hooked? One?

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Speaker 1: I had so much fun. I was like, I love

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Speaker 1: this this events for me, not just twenty six point two,

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Speaker 1: but being in Boston, Like, I just the whole experience

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Speaker 1: was so fun and memorable.

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Speaker 2: And then I mean you lead into two thousand and

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Speaker 2: eight when you are headed to your first US Olympic Trials,

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Speaker 2: I mean, is that surreal in itself as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I think getting that done that qualifier

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Speaker 1: in Boston was like, Okay, I can stick with the

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Speaker 1: sport a little bit longer. And then I just really

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Speaker 1: absorbed that training so well and like the consistency of

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Speaker 1: that marathon grind. So when I went to get ready

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Speaker 1: for that Olympic trials. It was just all really flowing

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Speaker 1: together and I was like, I can make this team,

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Speaker 1: Like I actually really think I can make this team,

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Speaker 1: and so one to even be there was a huge

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Speaker 1: moment that I never really expected because the track was

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Speaker 1: so hard to get a spot on the starting lines

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Speaker 1: to hit those times just seemed way out of my reach.

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Speaker 1: But the marathon was a little more open, and then

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Speaker 1: when I got into the event, it was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually good at this and maybe I can make

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Speaker 1: an Olympic teams. So it was the first time I

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Speaker 1: really started believing that that was a possibility for me.

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Speaker 2: And at this time, give me a snapshot of what

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Speaker 2: your life looks like. Where are you living outside of running?

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Speaker 2: What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was with Hanson's Brooks then, and so with

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Speaker 1: a teamhouse in it was like five or six women training,

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Speaker 1: meeting every morning and training together. And some of my

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Speaker 1: really good friends even to this day were on the

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Speaker 1: team then. So it was great to have people to

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Speaker 1: train with and have similar goals, and honestly, I think

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Speaker 1: we just really raised the bar for each other for

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Speaker 1: so many years. But it kind of started there because

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Speaker 1: we were all believing that it could be us, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we just really pushed each other hard every

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Speaker 1: workout and got ourselves really ready for that. So it

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Speaker 1: was really centered around running. And the only working I

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Speaker 1: was doing was for a small well not small anymore,

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Speaker 1: but an outdoor retailer called bush Jah Mountaineering that's got

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Speaker 1: started in East Lansing, I believe, and they had a

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Speaker 1: few shops in the Michigan area. So I was working

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Speaker 1: at an internet call center doing customer service.

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Speaker 2: Emails, other odd jobs you had growing up that you

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Speaker 2: reflect on now and laugh about a little bit.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That was the strangest thing.

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Speaker 2: I could lead you in into what might be the

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Speaker 2: perceived next big step for you. But I'm curious if

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Speaker 2: I ask you about your running journey after those Olympic Trials,

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Speaker 2: what do you think about as like the next pivotal

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Speaker 2: moment for you?

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Speaker 1: That's a good one. I guess the Chicago Marathon that fall.

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Speaker 1: You know, I took a huge chunk of time off

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Speaker 1: of obviously my debut to my second marathon with the

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Speaker 1: Olympic Trials. It was like ten minute pr or something

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Speaker 1: like that. But it still wasn't even in the ballpark

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Speaker 1: of like you have a future in this. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you can do this for a few more years as

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Speaker 1: a fun you know, find out how good I can be,

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Speaker 1: and then you need to enter the workforce and then

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Speaker 1: you know it. Just it made me really want to

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Speaker 1: figure out the event because the last couple of miles

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Speaker 1: went so poorly and I realized if I could put

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Speaker 1: that together, I could actually be really great at this.

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Speaker 1: And so heading into the Chicago Marathon that fall, I

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Speaker 1: was just more driven and motivated than ever to kind

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Speaker 1: of put everything together on the day. And it was

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Speaker 1: my second world major marathon, but the first time anyone

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Speaker 1: really expected me to do anything. And I finished top

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Speaker 1: five that day and actually got the time that really

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Speaker 1: matched with where my training had been for the trials,

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Speaker 1: and it was a time that would have lended me

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Speaker 1: on the team, you know, and put me in that

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Speaker 1: ballparker that conversation for any of the teams in the past.

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Speaker 1: And so that was like, Okay, this is the right

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Speaker 1: path you're going down, and you can do this and

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Speaker 1: have a profession here.

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Speaker 2: Which prompts to follow up questions the first when you

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Speaker 2: say things fell apart a little bit toward the end.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean for you?

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Speaker 1: Especially in that two thousand and eight eight Olympic Trials,

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Speaker 1: it was really like experiencing the bonk of the marathon.

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Speaker 1: And that was my second marathon at the time, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, twenty six I thought I

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Speaker 1: had it all figured out. I'm like, I'm making an

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Speaker 1: Olympic team. I got this and just struggled with like

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Speaker 1: the fueling part of the race and hit the wall

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Speaker 1: and you can lose you know, thirty forty seconds a mile,

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Speaker 1: and the last four miles feels like the first twenty

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Speaker 1: two or whatever it may be. And so that was

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Speaker 1: a struggle fest all the way, and I just knew

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Speaker 1: I had to figure out the pacing of it and

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Speaker 1: get that dialed in a little bit more, but also

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Speaker 1: the nutrition aspect of it. So there was things to

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Speaker 1: work on when I finished.

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Speaker 2: Before I go into my second follow up question, I

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Speaker 2: feel like, now this begs the inquiry what there's so

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Speaker 2: much I want to know? DOZ talk to me about

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Speaker 2: like a typical fueling strategy for you? What are you

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Speaker 2: leaning into? What are you reaching for?

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Speaker 1: All that? Goodness? Yeah, I use bar product, which I've

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Speaker 1: been with them for quite a few years now, and

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Speaker 1: their electrolyte drink has been really good for me, and

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Speaker 1: so I'll do that for We get the personal bottles

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Speaker 1: on the course, so every five k you can have

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Speaker 1: your own mixture out there. And so I'll do the

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Speaker 1: electrolyte fluid for probably the first twenty five k, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll do caffeinated from twenty five k thirty K

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Speaker 1: and then I go back to the electrolyte mix. But

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Speaker 1: the caffeine's good. That's such an important part of the

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Speaker 1: race where you want to make sure you're alert in

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Speaker 1: your body and your mind are on the same page

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Speaker 1: about how much fuel your muscle has, so muscles have

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Speaker 1: so adding that in has been good. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: train our bodies, we train our minds, and we have

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Speaker 1: to train our gut as well. So it's practicing getting

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Speaker 1: those fluids in while you're running, and also while you're

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Speaker 1: running at marathon pace, so you can feel the sensation

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Speaker 1: of it slashing in your gut when it goes wrong

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Speaker 1: and adapt to it or you know, you train your

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Speaker 1: stomach to be able to handle that. So it's all

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Speaker 1: a lot of practice.

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Speaker 2: I love what you said about I finally was in

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Speaker 2: a place where like people would expect things of me,

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Speaker 2: which can be really exciting and kind of surreal, especially

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Speaker 2: as a young athlete, but then also super overwhelming. So

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Speaker 2: talk to me a little bit about this idea of

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Speaker 2: managing other people's expectations and how you kind of coped

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Speaker 2: with that from early on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the expectations that were outside were me

404
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Speaker 1: and my coaches and my teammates maybe, and then everything

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Speaker 1: beyond that was kind of just noise. Like I didn't

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Speaker 1: really dial into any of it or let it kind

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Speaker 1: of get in my head at all. But the expectations

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Speaker 1: I had for myself and that my coaches had for

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Speaker 1: me were really high enough, and so that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where I just focused. And they were there because I

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Speaker 1: was proving that they should be there, and so if

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Speaker 1: they were high, it was a good thing.

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Speaker 2: It is a good thing. And now like we're we're

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Speaker 2: getting up there. There's basically what happens here is there

415
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Speaker 2: are a slew of marathons, some more Chicago, some USA Championships,

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Speaker 2: the Boston Marathon in twenty eleven, which was big for

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Speaker 2: you coming in second. What does that feel like at

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Speaker 2: that time?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a race where I was probably the

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Speaker 1: only one who was disappointed in the end. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a mental strategy where you act as

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Speaker 1: if you are the thing you're trying to become. So

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Speaker 1: for me that was I am a Boston champion, and

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Speaker 1: every day for three months, you know, I went out

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Speaker 1: and practiced like a champion. I ate like a champion,

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Speaker 1: I slept like a champion. Like whatever it was, it

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Speaker 1: was like, is this is this what a Boston Marathon

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Speaker 1: champion would do, you know, And that's what all my

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Speaker 1: daily activities are driven towards. And so it all played

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Speaker 1: out really how I I expected it to, except for

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Speaker 1: like the last fifty meters, and so for you know,

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Speaker 1: three months and two hours and twenty two minutes was

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Speaker 1: all to plan, and I was a Boston Marathon champion

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Speaker 1: and I made all those decisions to put myself there,

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Speaker 1: and then it just fell short right at the end,

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Speaker 1: and so I walked away pretty disappointed because in my

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Speaker 1: mind it was picturing that for so long and then

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Speaker 1: it was kind of not taken away, but that moment

439
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: changed where it's like, Okay, now you have to cope

440
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: with the fact that you're not the champion, which seems

441
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 1: bizarre from the outside. But to have those types of

442
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: races and performances, you just have to commit to it

443
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: and believe it every single day, because no one fakes

444
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: their way to that. So I was kind of on

445
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: the disappointed side with all of it.

446
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: You talked a lot about those three months and the

447
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 2: preparation and in turn the opportunity cost, which I think

448
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: is something that a lot of runners own and accept

449
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: when they have these big, lofty talk to me about

450
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: why running and it might be different now than it

451
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: was back then, but why at this point was this

452
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: sport just so worthy of these sacrifices and that great

453
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: opportunity cost for you?

454
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I love it. It's just to me,

455
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: it's so much fun. And I see all these moments

456
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: as opportunities. And some people look at pressure or big

457
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: races and these kind of situations as stressful, and I

458
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: just see them as really fun opportunities where you can

459
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: go and do something you've never done before, and if

460
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: you put in the work and you have the right goals,

461
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. But I don't know,

462
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: I've always enjoyed that, and I think that the love

463
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: of the sport just kind of makes it all worth it.

464
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any kind of drawback for me.

465
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: I've also felt like I was for a long time,

466
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: I was really underrated. Like even when I say the

467
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: expectations of outsiders, they were always pretty low. It was

468
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: our internal expectations that were high because we knew it

469
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: was possible. So I never really had too much pressure

470
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: on the goals I was putting out there, like people

471
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: were just like, Oh, that's cute, she thinks she's going

472
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: to win the Boston Marathon. But actually these three people

473
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: are contenders. And so I was always surprising people for

474
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: a long time.

475
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: Anyhow, how powerful is that though?

476
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: It's it's definitely an easier way to do it if

477
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: you're under the radar and you can go and surprise people.

478
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: It's it's a fun spot to be in.

479
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: So how do you then turn around this disappointment from

480
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: Boston and kind of use that fuel for your training

481
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: going forward?

482
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Think you look at you know, all of those

483
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: disappointments as opportunities to learn and get better. And so

484
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: for me it was obviously it was good and bad.

485
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: It was like I was disappointed because I really thought

486
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: I was going to be able to win, but it

487
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: was a moment that just by the believing it was like, Okay,

488
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: you're not insane to believe that you could do this.

489
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: You can compete with the best in the world. You're capable,

490
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: and you belong in these races. And so that mentality

491
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: I just used moving forward. And obviously I was twenty eleven,

492
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: so twenty twelve games were coming up. I had not

493
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: been an Olympian before, and so that was certainly driving me.

494
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: And you know, I wanted to get myself on a

495
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: team and be able to compete for the USA.

496
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: I want to compare to feelings then, the feeling that

497
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: you have when you make the Olympic team in twenty

498
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: twelve versus the feeling that you have when you know

499
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 2: that you can't finish the Olympic race in London.

500
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the highest of highs butted up against

501
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: the lowest of lows. It was a super hard year.

502
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: It was very tough to manage. Even when it goes

503
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: really well, like this is a new experience. You get

504
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: to call yourself an Olympian and there's you know a

505
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: little more opportunity on the other side with media and

506
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: sponsors and so on and so forth, and you should

507
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: be excited about it and caught up in it a

508
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: little bit, but also you still have to train and

509
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: do all that stuff. So it was just a lot

510
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: of managing things that I had never really done before.

511
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: And then you know, with getting on that team, I

512
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: think our teams are so good that the expectation or

513
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, my personal goalieve in was to go and

514
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: try to meddle in London, and again that was the

515
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: bar I had set for myself. So it was really

516
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 1: trying to take on that training and push myself to

517
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: a new level and all really great things, but there's

518
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: again there's a big risk on the other side. That's

519
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: a fine line between having a breakthrough and breaking down,

520
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: and I found myself on the wrong side of it.

521
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: So that feeling and going into that race, which is

522
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: essentially the whole world's eyes are on it and it's

523
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: the biggest moment in my sporting career at that time,

524
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: so that was really hard to stomach. Think what made

525
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: it even worse was not having like a correct diagnosis.

526
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: It was like, this is tendonitis, and like I could

527
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: run through tendonitis, I can do hard things, I can

528
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: manage discomfort, and then you know, coming back a couple

529
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: of weeks after the games, getting another look and being like, actually,

530
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: this is something you shouldn't have been running on at all.

531
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: So it was tough to feel like I was being

532
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: a baby about something, but also in the back of

533
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: my mind going I think that this is the wrong diagnosis.

534
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: So it was really good to get on the other

535
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: side and have like a proper diagnosis and be like, Okay,

536
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: this is a reasonable decision you made to drop out.

537
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: I feel that's like when you get out of a

538
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: relationship and sometimes you almost wish as if someone did

539
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: something really bad so you could just hate them for sure.

540
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: Right, You're like this, there's got to be a reason,

541
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: like what was wrong.

542
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: You had in this time period of your life. Also

543
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: met Ryan, who would become your husband. How was integrating

544
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: like any so a personal life while you're also training

545
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: like bonkers?

546
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: He was just a huge help. I mean, he's such

547
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: a runner too, and so he's super supportive of it already,

548
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: but also he could match up with what I was

549
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: doing running wise and just chip in on workouts, and

550
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: so it was actually really fun to have him there,

551
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: someone to do all this work with.

552
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: And at this time, what does like the climate of

553
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: your training look like, are you still training with the

554
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: Hansons or are you doing more stuff on your own

555
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: or what's that? What's happening there?

556
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, then I was still very much with the

557
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: Hansons and we had a great group still, So it

558
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: was I mean, we always had a great group. It

559
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: was Dot McMahon and Melissa White were you know, some

560
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: of the people that ran with me at that two

561
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: thousand and eight trials and felt we all had a

562
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: legit shot and same thing in twenty twelve, so I

563
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: think it was a nice boost for all of us.

564
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: That's you know, we got someone on the team and

565
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: it felt like a really collective effort. And you know,

566
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: again I had really great training partners to help me

567
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: get ready for the games that year.

568
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting because now, I mean, as we

569
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: get closer and closer to the present, a lot of

570
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: these household names that we're still seeing you run with

571
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: today when it comes to competing and racing with them,

572
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: you're starting to be out there with these ladies and

573
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: you're all kind of coming up together. I feel like

574
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: there must be and I mean so many people talked

575
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: about your relationship with Shelene and waiting for her in

576
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: Boston that year. But it's like there must be some

577
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: sort of a sisterhood that's starting to form with you

578
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: and all of these other ladies that are out there

579
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: pushing themselves just like you are.

580
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a ton of respect. The event is incredibly hard,

581
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: and we know that those three months leading into it

582
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: are grueling and difficult. And if you can get yourself

583
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: to a start line, you've already done quite a bit.

584
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: And think everyone respects people who just go out and

585
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: put that type of work in for a really long time.

586
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: And obviously you want it to be your day, but

587
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: if someone else that you know is doing it in

588
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: the correct way has that breakthrough, then hats off to them.

589
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a win for all of us.

590
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: All right, So I'm going to fast forward just a

591
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: little bit and bring us to the next Olympics, a

592
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: much different play out for you.

593
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quite fun.

594
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: It was quite fun.

595
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I enjoyed that one significantly more, and it was

596
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: I think the biggest challenge with that was, you know,

597
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: you can't make that same mistake twice, Like you can't

598
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: get injured for this, You can't have to drop out

599
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: or have to like not start, and so managing that

600
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: but also really swinging for the fences and wanting to

601
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: earn that metal still and be in your best shape

602
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: and ready to run. It was a really tricky balance,

603
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: and I was pleased that I thought I did a

604
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: good job with managing it.

605
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: All about the stress fracture for a moment, How did

606
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: you remedy that? Was it a lot of rest?

607
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, a good amount of time off and it was

608
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: a pretty big fracture, is my understanding, So it was

609
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: like more time off than I expected. And then actually

610
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: at that time, I started going down to Phoenix to

611
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: get work done by the chiropractor John Ball, who is

612
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: pretty popular in the distance running endurance sport world, and

613
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: so that was really beneficial because I still go down

614
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: there now and get treatment quite a bit. But he

615
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: was actually an ASU grad and ran i think on

616
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: the one year on the team while I was there.

617
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: But it's kind of we have a lot of mutual

618
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: friends and stuff, so it's always good to see him.

619
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: And so something that I've read about but I don't

620
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: feel as though you talk about it a lot, is

621
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: what was going on really throughout twenty seventeen for you,

622
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: I would love to bring up the Gold Coast to

623
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: have marathon because in my eyes, that was probably a

624
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: really big hurdle moment for you as you decided what

625
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: to do maybe with the rest of your running career.

626
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the Olympics has it's one of

627
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: the big highs, and then afterwards, no matter how it goes,

628
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: there's just like this void where you're like four years

629
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: before I can get to do something quote unquote meaningful again.

630
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: And I just tried to not acknowledge it, and I

631
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm gonna do Boston. That's super meaningful.

632
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: Ran fine. There I was fourth, I think, which is fine,

633
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: and then it was like, okay, well now I just

634
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: need to shove something else in place because I don't

635
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: want to think about where this is going long term

636
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: or what really is driving me. Still. It was kind

637
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: of like putting the band aid on the head wound,

638
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: like let's just not think about this. And I think

639
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: Gold Coast was where it kind of like get ahead,

640
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: and it was like you got to pause. You need

641
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: to rest and really recover and regroup and get a plan,

642
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: like have a bigger plan here.

643
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: What happened there.

644
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: I was just really flat, Like I think in training

645
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: you can get fit, but you can't force it in

646
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: by not taking the proper breaks and just keep throwing

647
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: new things on the calendar. I just was overtrained and

648
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: kind of in the well, and obviously it showed in performance.

649
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: So when you showed up there, it just didn't feel

650
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: like you had it in the tank.

651
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just felt I mean, there's a huge travel

652
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: component to going over there and trying to race well,

653
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: but conditions were ideal. It was really a great day

654
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: to run fast. I think if people need a fast

655
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: July marathon or half marathon, that's the place to go.

656
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: Like it, it's really tough to be but yeah, I

657
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: just felt so flat from the start, Like I would

658
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: try to go with the leaders and I was like,

659
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: I have nothing in my legs. I'm just out of gas.

660
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: So we take a little break after the Gold Coast

661
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: and then we kick things into high gear because well

662
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: it's the beginning of twenty eighteen, and don't you know

663
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: if something big is coming.

664
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I took a hard break and didn't run until

665
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: I felt like I wanted to, And then when I

666
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: was achieved for workouts. I started doing workouts and I

667
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: just let things come to me instead of forcing it,

668
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: And that just kind of changed, you know, how I

669
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: went into these training segments and workouts and the whole thing,

670
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: like it got me excited to run again, Like I

671
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: would look forward to racing the New York City Half

672
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: and getting in the next workout. So it was a

673
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: shift from the year before.

674
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: For sure, Is it true you didn't run all of

675
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 2: August twenty seventeen.

676
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: Probably I took a good hunk of time off. I

677
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: think I referred to my training log as Swiss cheese,

678
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: where it's just like big gaping holes everywhere.

679
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: A lot of people struggle, not just with handling injury,

680
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 2: but then also with the idea of taking time off.

681
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: Just tod I a girlfriend of mine who's had to

682
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: take some time off because of a nasty hamstring situation.

683
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 2: She said in her quest to sub four, she was like,

684
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: I was so close. This is the year I was

685
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 2: going to SUB four, and now I'm sitting here just waiting,

686
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: And I said, you can't decide right now what's going

687
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: to happen five six months from now. All you can

688
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: do is the best you can with this situation as

689
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: it is, and you started to gear up again talk

690
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: to me about where your head was at.

691
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: It was a good reminder that again, you can't force

692
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: things you have to. My college coach would always say

693
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: relax and let the run come out of you, you know,

694
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: and that was when we're trying to run fast. It's like,

695
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: you're not going to force really great performances. And so

696
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: if the body says back off, back off, and I

697
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: think it takes a lot of confidence to do that

698
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: as well, to realize that you're not going to lose

699
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: everything you've built over all the years just because you

700
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: took a little bit of a break. And I think

701
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: both Slaine and I had our big breakthroughs off of

702
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: these breaks. You know, it was that little bit of

703
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: time off that kind of allowed us to regroup and

704
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: freshen up and then go and attack. And so there's

705
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: a lot of value in those breaks too. And I

706
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 1: think that's a hard thing for people to grasp because

707
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: we do like the keep showing up, you know, like

708
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: that mantra is great because he gets us out the door.

709
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: But sometimes showing up is allowing yourself to rest and

710
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: recover and regroup, and so you have to figure out

711
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: what it means and take confidence in the years and

712
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: years of work you've done before. Just because you can't

713
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: go out and hammer right now doesn't mean that all

714
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: goes away.

715
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: And I think that's pretty relevant to you know what

716
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 2: a lot of us are experiencing right now in this

717
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 2: patch of uncertainty and a shift in the quote unquote normal.

718
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: It's just this is things are different now, and how

719
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: can you be during this time? What can you do

720
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: during this time? I mean, right now, I'm sure that

721
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: showing up so to speak, as we started this conversation

722
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: talking about it looks a whole lot different than showing

723
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: up looked like for you back in January of this

724
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: year leading into Atlanta.

725
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And it's always changing and figuring out, you know,

726
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: what can you do with the situation to make the

727
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: most of it. And the people who are going to

728
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: adapt and use this time wisely are the people that

729
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: going to come out the other side and have success.

730
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: The people who are stressed out in antsy because they

731
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: can't do it exactly the way they had pictured, I

732
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: think they'll struggle and so we just have to be flexible.

733
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: So it's a rainy day in two thousand and eighteen,

734
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: and the winds are gusting up to thirty five miles

735
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: an hour, the high is around thirty eight degrees, and

736
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: you think to yourself, we're gonna have a nice little

737
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 2: run today.

738
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: Nobody thought that that's a myth. Everyone was like, this

739
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: is going to be torture. Why did I sign up

740
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: for this?

741
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: I wish I were in bed, myself included. I was

742
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: out there that day and it was god awful.

743
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: Man.

744
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: All Right, you get out there, you feel as though

745
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: going into this race, which I think is important to

746
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: just reiterate, after having like that rough rocky patch and

747
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: taking some time off, are you back in a place

748
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: where you really love running again, aside from you know

749
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: the conditions you're about to face.

750
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was having fun with it, and I think

751
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: I looked at this race as like stepping stone, Like, Okay,

752
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: I think I'm in pretty solid shape. I didn't get

753
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: better from last year, Like, I don't think this is

754
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: going to be a lights out good day for me.

755
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: But I think about where I was in twenty seventeen

756
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: and I finished fourth, So who knows? Like, keep an open.

757
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: Mind, right, So you show up to the starting line

758
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: with an open mind. I know you guys had a

759
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: little bit more of an official start than the rest

760
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: of us. I think like at one point they just

761
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: said just go whenever you're running. It was crazy back there,

762
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: but for you, you guys get going and in the first

763
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 2: few miles of that race, like where is your head at?

764
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 2: What actually keeps you going?

765
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny to look back at it, because I

766
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: felt horrible the first few miles, which to be expected.

767
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: It was really bad conditions and you're just like, this

768
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: is a really long way to go. And I thought

769
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: the pace was surprisingly decent for what we were heading into,

770
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of running left. Why are we

771
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: racing so hard right now? But also in hindsight, like

772
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: I didn't even bother to warm up because I was like,

773
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: there's no we're not going to go fast. It's going

774
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: to be like a slow jug for twenty four miles.

775
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: And so it all felt really uncomfortable quite early on.

776
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: And it was even you know, in that first six

777
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: miles where I tap Shalin and I was like, there's

778
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: a really good chance I'm dropping out today. I don't

779
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: feel like I have it, So let me know if

780
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: you need anything.

781
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: I think it's really awesome that even on the days

782
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: that don't feel stellar, you're still out there and you're

783
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 2: showing up and you're like reiterating that because that's probably

784
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you as well. Like a question that

785
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: I get asked so often is how do you stick

786
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: with it when it just feels awful?

787
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: I think it's can turn so quickly, and it's when

788
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: you're in a race, especially and you've trained for months

789
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: and just because the weather doesn't look how you expected,

790
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: you got to give yourself a shot and everyone's suffering.

791
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: So it took me a while to realize that it was,

792
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, pretty far into the race, around seventeen miles,

793
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, everyone's hurting today. This isn't going well

794
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: for anyone. So maybe I'm hurting less than that.

795
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: Maybe just maybe So you guys are out there, you said,

796
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: you're about like six or so miles into the race

797
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 2: and you're not feeling super optimistic. When do the tables

798
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: turn for you?

799
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: So around thirteen Shelene takes me up on the offer

800
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: and says she just kind of, you know, nudges means

801
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: like I need to go to the bathroom, Like do

802
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: you think that I should go. There's like porta potties

803
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: right there, and I'm like, yeah, that's like it's slow enough,

804
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: you can catch back up, or I'll go the front

805
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: and slow it down. Whatever. So she darts off and

806
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: does the quickest bathroom stuff I've ever seen. But in

807
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: the meantime, it's like the East Africans on the front

808
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: are like, oh, this main competitor has just gone off

809
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: the course, like let's make a break, Let's try and

810
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: drop her, and so you know, I kind of stayed

811
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: back and waited for her, and we worked together to

812
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: re gain contact to the pack, and I think like

813
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: that was a kind of pivotal moment mentally where it's like, Okay,

814
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good moving at a little bit quicker pace.

815
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: And maybe it was actually just warming up the legs

816
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: and the core temperature by going quicker, but that was

817
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: like the first spark of like, Okay, well this isn't great,

818
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: but we're going to get back in and maybe I

819
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: can help someone else out along the way.

820
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: And so you're back in.

821
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I yo yoed off the back for a bit,

822
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: but I just felt like there was so much it

823
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: was too much racing for where we were, and it

824
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: was all predicated on Shelaine having to go to the bathroom,

825
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: and none of it made sense because it was still like,

826
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, thirteen miles of head wind to run into,

827
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: so it just it wasn't none of it was logical.

828
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 1: And even then it was like I kind of fell

829
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: off and then I regained contact, and then I Mamyito Daska,

830
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: the East African had gone off the front and put

831
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: like thirty seconds on the pack and Molly Huddle was

832
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: sort of leading that chase group into the wind. It's

833
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: just like that's the worst spot to be and so

834
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm still like maybe I'll drop out,

835
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: but let me do this thing for Molly where I

836
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: go to the front and help them, you know, close

837
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: this thirty second gap. And it's such a funny thing

838
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: when you're having the worst days if you give yourself

839
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: a big task. I think my old coach the Hanson's

840
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: had a story about, you know, a person getting wanting

841
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: to drop out of a ten k and then their

842
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: coach said, hey, you can drop out, you just need

843
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: to catch the leader first. Like okay, it's like three

844
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: hundred meters in front of me. I'm just going to

845
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: put my foot to the floor, catch the leader, and

846
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: then I can drop out of the race. And all

847
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: of a sudden you get there and you're like, oh,

848
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: I feel amazing, And usually those people end up having

849
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: amazing races. And this is really pretty similar to what

850
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: happened here, is that I'm going to go to the

851
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: front and help Molly close this gap and get out

852
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: to the front start doing the work. Look back and

853
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: I've dropped like pretty much everyone, and that's you know,

854
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: that real moment where it's like, oh, yeah, everyone really

855
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: is hurting. This isn't easy for anybody, and actually I

856
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: might be this longest of this group.

857
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: In that moment, do you realize what's possible for you?

858
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: I think it was surprising. I was not expecting to

859
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: turn back and see the whole group splintered because I

860
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: didn't feel like I did anything spectacular. So it was

861
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: definitely like, Okay, the conditions are really breaking this thing apart,

862
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to have to do anything special

863
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: because the conditions are going to do it for me

864
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: and maybe I can get top three.

865
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: Maybe perhaps. But then you're making your way toward boils

866
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: to the street and things are looking pretty Okay.

867
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was surprising, and I think I just have

868
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: so much experience on that course in racing, in championship

869
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: style races that you know, I knew where to push

870
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: and when I could really take off towards home and

871
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: where to test people, and so I had a lot

872
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: of that in twenty eleven, just kind of playing in

873
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: my mind and not making the same mistakes that I

874
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: did then. It was kind of of interesting to have

875
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: that day in those conditions put in my mind, I'm

876
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: kind of visualizing twenty eleven, perfect weather and tailwind, and

877
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: that's that was kind of what was driving me.

878
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 2: Did you have, as you were like making that final turn,

879
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: kind of the PTSD of twenty eleven kicking into you

880
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: real hard, or did you have a pretty firm grasp

881
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: of the reality of what was happening right then and there.

882
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: No, I was very much in twenty eleven, and I

883
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: had no idea what the gap was behind me. But

884
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: when you go under the underpass, it's like maybe a

885
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: thousand meters to go, and I had the jacket on,

886
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I can't finish this race of the

887
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: jacket on, Like what if they dque me? Because like

888
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: my numbers, my bib's not showing or something, and like

889
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: I was gonna try to take it off into the

890
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: underpass when no one really saw, and my hands were

891
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: so cold, like I was fumbling with the zipper. I

892
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: couldn't get it. And I'm like, if I get passed

893
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: by somebody because I'm trying to take a jacket off

894
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: for a finishing photo, the biggest ding dong ever, like

895
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: you're an Indy ding So I stopped doing that, and

896
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: then even when I turned onto Boyleston, It's like, Okay,

897
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: I feel like I have enough in my legs that

898
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: if someone comes up on me, I can sprint and

899
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: I know when to sprint, you know, just based on

900
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: that twenty eleven experience. So I was playing that all

901
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: out in my mind until like, probably I don't know,

902
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: twenty meters from the finish.

903
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: Talk to me about what that feels like.

904
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: It is pretty incredible. I haven't won a lot of

905
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: races in my career, and so having that moment of

906
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 1: breaking the tape was was pretty incredible, and particularly coming

907
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: off of twenty sixteen in twenty seventeen, where it's like

908
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: at my very best, I'm like sixth at the Olympics,

909
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: or maybe I have seventh, you know, and I don't

910
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: think I can get any better from that, so maybe

911
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: this is just as good as I'm gonna be. I'm

912
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: probably never gonna have that moment. And then, you know,

913
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: being really frustrated in seventeen, like what's the goal here?

914
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,479
Speaker 1: If I'm never going to win anything or p are again,

915
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: like what am I trying to accomplish? So coming on

916
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: the tails of that was pretty special. And obviously having

917
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: Ryan there, who's done so much and dealt with so

918
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: much along the way, it was really cool.

919
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,959
Speaker 2: When you are facing these tough moments in the run

920
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 2: and you are pushing forward, and even in the exciting moments,

921
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 2: do you have some sort of mantra or something that

922
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: you keep going back to to push you forward.

923
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: I think it's always changing, And obviously the twenty eighteen

924
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: keep showing up was super important, you know, was just

925
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 1: go day by day, mile by mile, minute by minute,

926
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: or whatever you need to break it down to to

927
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: make sure you're having little successes. So that one has

928
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: really kind of stuck with me, and I think that's

929
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 1: always been the attitude. It was just finally putting those

930
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: simple words to it. And then you know, I think,

931
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: don't force things. You know, it's kind of the relax

932
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: and let the run come out of you has always

933
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: been important too. It's like when things get difficult, you

934
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: can't just bang your head against the wall. You have

935
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: to relax, be logical, and then just work your way

936
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: through it, not try to just run through the wall.

937
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: You've had a long time to develop this level of

938
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: mental grit. What do you tell someone that feels like

939
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,479
Speaker 2: they just don't have it in them?

940
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: I think it's a learned thing, just like everything else.

941
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: You have to practice, like we have. We talk about

942
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: training our gut and people go, well, that's super weird, Like, well,

943
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: you can train your mind too, and the more test

944
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: yourself and develop tools and read up on it, and

945
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: there's a whole sports psychology to science behind it and

946
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: it's real. Try to figure out how you can use

947
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: those tools and practice practice with it, because it's a

948
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: one percent you know. I think you get to a

949
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: certain level and everyone's really talented and really good, and

950
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: what's the thing that's going to set you apart? And

951
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: a lot of times it's from the neck up? Do you?

952
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: And I don't want to put you too much on

953
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: the spot, But have any top reads that kind of

954
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: were really pivotal or something that was really memorable for you.

955
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, from a sports psychology perspective, thinking, Body, Dancing Mind

956
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: is just fantastic. And I go back to that all

957
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: the time and take tips and tricks and reminders and

958
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: a coach with Jared Ward on indur or Strong, and

959
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm always bringing that book up for our athletes. I'm like, Okay,

960
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,959
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about, you know, whatever mental tool

961
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: it is for the day. So there's so much to

962
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: learn in there.

963
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: On an everyday basis. Are you a mindfulness person, Are

964
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: you a journaling person? Either of that? Either of those things?

965
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: No?

966
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: No, I'm a get outside and run person, right all right,

967
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 2: So I'm going to fast forward us to the now.

968
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 2: Then when you break the tape in Boston, do you

969
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: think at that point and believe and knowing your gut,

970
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: that there's still more for you to do?

971
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: No. It was super surprising, and it was still like

972
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: in that kind of time frame where I was like, Okay,

973
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: this is a stepping stone, maybe I can get better

974
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: from here. We'll just see. So it was kind of

975
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 1: finding out and you know, even after that it was like, Okay,

976
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 1: finally got the big reward for all the hard work,

977
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: like the big one, But what else is going to

978
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: motivate me? And what else is out there that I

979
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: want to do? So it's still kind of up in

980
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: the air. I just happened to have the big moment

981
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: in case I wanted to walk away from it all.

982
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: I've got to ask, I mean, a lot of training

983
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 2: goes into these races. How do you walk the fine

984
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 2: line between training to that perfect physical peak and overtraining

985
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: as you you know, dabbled in with the stress fracture

986
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: and the Olympics and then you know, saw success with

987
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 2: when it came to Boston.

988
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 1: That's like really the challenge of the marathons, like finding

989
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: the fine line of the breakthrough and the breakdown and

990
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: being on the right side of it. I'm still trying

991
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: to figure that out, and I think I've been very

992
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: lucky to be on the right side most of the time.

993
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: So it's really listening to your body and adjusting the

994
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: training as you need to and so on and so forth.

995
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: But it's I don't think I've really figured it all out,

996
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: and sometimes I wonder if maybe I've left some really

997
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: great marathons out there because I wasn't really willing to

998
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: risk in training as much as I should be. You know,

999
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: I'm super consistent, but maybe there was that outlier out

1000
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: there that I just couldn't get to because I wasn't

1001
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: willing to give up the consistency. And so it's crazy balance,

1002
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: and you know, it was partially why I ended up

1003
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: going back to my coach, wallet Drenk, my college coach,

1004
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: just to try something new, to see if there was

1005
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: something that I was missing in training.

1006
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 2: So I'm going to bring us close to the now

1007
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: and talk us through the marathon trials in Atlanta as

1008
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: we know, that day was. It was a beautiful day.

1009
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: I was down there for that too, watching you, and

1010
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: we got to talk a few days leading into that.

1011
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: It would be the biggest understatement in the world to

1012
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 2: say every single person was cheering for you.

1013
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: It was insane.

1014
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:11,720
Speaker 2: How does that feel?

1015
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: It was insane?

1016
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 2: How does that feel?

1017
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? It was really cool. I mean, I think everybody

1018
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: else in the race probably hated me. They're like, why

1019
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: are you the only one getting cheers? But yeah, it

1020
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: was pretty pretty neat, and honestly, I think it's just

1021
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: I've been around for a really long time. I was

1022
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: also like, I'm really.

1023
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 2: Old going into that day. Where was your head at.

1024
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: It's a weird race for me. And you know, honestly,

1025
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I did not look four years ahead

1026
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: and go, Okay, I'm really gearing up to make this

1027
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty teen, this is the next thing I want

1028
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: to do. It was like, I'll probably be retired before then.

1029
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: So I never pictured myself really running this trials. But

1030
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, once I committed to it, it was

1031
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: all in and I felt like I had a great

1032
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: shot to make the team. The segment was tough the

1033
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: last few weeks. I just had some hiccups. And so

1034
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: it was the first time in probably eight maybe I

1035
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 1: guess sick twelve years that I took the time to

1036
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 1: picture what it would look like if I didn't make

1037
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: the team. Like I felt like I needed to mentally

1038
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: prepare myself for that because it was something I hadn't

1039
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: visualized in you know, at least eight years, and so

1040
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: I feel like when it got hard out there, that

1041
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: was like kind of weighing on my mind, like Okay,

1042
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: well I'm prepared for what it's going to be like

1043
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: if I don't make the team. And then, in hindsight,

1044
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: I should have never let that get in my head

1045
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: because I was, you know, a threat, and maybe it

1046
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: makes you take your foot off the gas for half mile,

1047
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: but when you miss a team by eleven seconds, maybe

1048
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: that's it.

1049
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you have this realization now, especially after

1050
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 2: you shared the story of waking up for three months

1051
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 2: and training like a Boston champion. Yeah, not to say

1052
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 2: that it's stellar to think about a Plan B being

1053
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: not making the Olympic team, but don't you think maybe

1054
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of responsibility and ownership about at

1055
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 2: least thinking of that every once in a while.

1056
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings on that. I think given the

1057
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: training segment, absolutely you know it made sense. But again

1058
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, plan B is like a

1059
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: proper one in that one of like, okay, plan is

1060
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: like I'm every day I'm picturing and winning the trials.

1061
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: If I can't win the trial, it's like, what does

1062
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: it look like to make the team? If you know,

1063
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: I think you can go backwards from that, But for me,

1064
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: it was like make the team. You know, I went

1065
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: through those phases where visualizing winning and making the team

1066
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: and then you know, it just had the hiccup and

1067
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, I need to prepare for worst

1068
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: case scenario. And I don't know if that's fourth or

1069
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, fifty seventh or what else it's going to be.

1070
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,439
Speaker 1: But it was just a little bit of a cop out,

1071
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: I think for me.

1072
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 2: Talk to me about a high from that day and

1073
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: a low from that day, and the low is not

1074
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: coming in for.

1075
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, everything about it was pretty amazing. Just

1076
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: that pack of people for so long into that race,

1077
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, just speaks to the depth in women's distance

1078
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: running with men's too. The men's side was pretty incredible.

1079
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: The course. How many people are out there cheering, just

1080
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: going nuts over you know, American distance running. That's that

1081
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 1: was really neat. Watching Molly's sidle debut, just how she did,

1082
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, she's what twenty four. I think that's just

1083
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: so incredible. For the future, I think she's just going

1084
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: to get so much better. That was really cool. Obviously,

1085
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: Alphine and Sally just really kind to people. Just the

1086
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 1: team that we're gonna send is just really great people,

1087
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: which was really neat. Not that there's bad people generally,

1088
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: but I like them a lot. Anyhow, and then even

1089
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: that being in that chase pack with it was me

1090
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 1: and Kellen and Laura Sweet and just being like, you guys,

1091
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: we got to work together. Let's close this gap, like

1092
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: we can't give up. We have to chase down Sally.

1093
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: We can do this, and kind of getting people to

1094
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 1: rally together late in the race when it's really hard

1095
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: to try and grab that spot. And so there's just

1096
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a fun day all around.

1097
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: And I mean the down from that day probably below

1098
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: would be that night trying to get into a bar

1099
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: and having to wait in a line. I was like,

1100
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: this is it. This is what a fourth placed person

1101
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: has to do. Now wait in line? Oh my god,

1102
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: that's it. It was like this speakeasy. So you had

1103
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: to like call I'm like, I'm not waiting five minutes.

1104
00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: I can't do that.

1105
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 2: Let me into the bar. Don't you know who?

1106
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: I how the mighty have fallen?

1107
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: It goes without arguing right now that you and Selaine

1108
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: are leading, what I would say is a boom of

1109
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 2: American woman's marathoning. Is that kind of crazy to hear

1110
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: me say?

1111
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: It's no, It's really incredible. I think we're a few

1112
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: of many and again it makes me feel kind of old,

1113
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: Like I just feel like it's a thing where I've

1114
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: just done this for so long. But I've said that

1115
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: about Dina while she was still competing, and it's kind

1116
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: of I should apologize now, like I didn't mean to

1117
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: say that you were old. It's just really what you

1118
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: did was so impressive and you're just guiding in the

1119
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: next generation. And obviously Amy Hastings and Caria Goucher certainly

1120
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: in that conversation, and so I think we've all had

1121
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: our moments where you know, we've done something pretty special

1122
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: and it's really nice to be a part of it.

1123
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: I'm crowdsourcing a few questions as we wind down the

1124
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 2: podcast right now, and one of the ones that kind

1125
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: of came in over and over for you is what

1126
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: would be your top two tips for newbie distance runners

1127
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: now that you're quite the better in yourself.

1128
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, first is running is hard. I think we

1129
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit at the podcast before

1130
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: the race, like it's really tough and getting in shape

1131
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: is hard, but being in shape is awesome. So give

1132
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: yourself time to get in shape. Don't get frustrated or

1133
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: impatient early because it's hard expect that, but you know,

1134
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: stick with it. So that would be the first one.

1135
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: I'll go in a totally different direction and say, get

1136
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: good equipment so that you give yourself a chance to

1137
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: keep showing up. And that's a good run specialty store

1138
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: if you can and get the right footwear and give

1139
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: yourself a chance to stay healthy and have the right

1140
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: support underneath you and feel good when you're running, and

1141
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: that'll make a big difference. I know right now we

1142
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: can't get into run specialty And actually Brooks Running has

1143
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: this amazing shoefinder on there that will kind of guide

1144
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: you through all the things that they might do at

1145
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: a run specialty shop and get you in the right

1146
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: fit shoe. So if that's the best resource right now,

1147
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: I totally recommend that for sure.

1148
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 2: When it comes to the off season, which many of

1149
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 2: us find ourselves in right now, what are your suggestions

1150
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 2: on either maintaining fitness, not losing fitness or are you

1151
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: just a whiskey coffee and a no running kind of gal.

1152
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if it's a planned to break, you know,

1153
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: I put the running shoes somewhere where I don't even

1154
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: see them, and whiskey coffee, no running kind of gal.

1155
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: But you know, I'll go for a walk, I'll play

1156
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: with my dogs. I pull out the bike that I

1157
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: don't use that often, so you can still be active.

1158
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: But it really just depends what you feel like you need.

1159
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: You know, if you're a person who doesn't want to

1160
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: get out of that rhythm, just keep it light and short,

1161
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: and when you're ready to get back into it, you can,

1162
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, turn it right back on. I think again,

1163
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: it goes back to having the confidence to take the break.

1164
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: I think I've been at this for a really long

1165
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: time now, like the longevity of my career personally, I

1166
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: believe it's from having the confidence to take those breaks.

1167
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, going okay, you know what, like I

1168
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: need to hit pause for a long time. I know

1169
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: how to get in shape. That's tough, but it's doable.

1170
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: But I can't, you know, force this if I'm not

1171
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: having any fun doing it. So, you know, enjoy your

1172
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: break and feel it out. See what you need.

1173
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: What are you leaning into right now to kind of

1174
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 2: just handle this state of ambient anxiety other than running.

1175
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: It's super strange because it's not that different from my

1176
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: typical day which is pretty sad. Like I'm like, I

1177
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't really know that anything different's going on, but I'm

1178
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: definitely kind of catching up on stuff that I hadn't,

1179
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, spent time on in the past. And it's

1180
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: reading the really big books because I know I can

1181
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: hunker down, putting time and energy into our coffee company

1182
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: that Ryan usually does everything for him, like helping out

1183
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more there. So it's just staying busy

1184
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: with stuff that's enjoyable.

1185
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 2: What goals are on your radar right now? I mean,

1186
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 2: I know that a lot of people have their own

1187
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: opinions about the Olympics being pushed back. Where are you focused?

1188
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Just trying to have some fun with this. I mean,

1189
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: obviously it's like not fun at all, but we can

1190
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: still enjoy running. And for me, it's working on things

1191
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: that in the past, like I just can't fit into

1192
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: the schedule. Like I would love to do a ten

1193
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: k on the track, but if you do a spring marathon,

1194
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: then you have to regroup and then do a fall marathon.

1195
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, it's tight to fit that in

1196
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: and you know you run the risk of injury doing

1197
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: that high intensity stuff. I just feel like right now,

1198
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, who cares, Like, let's just try and see

1199
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: what happens in worst case scenario if I get an

1200
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: injury or STI don't know races until the fall, so

1201
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: we'll regroup and it'll be okay. I mean, obviously I'm

1202
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: not trying to go that route, but that's like worst

1203
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: case scenario. So I'm going to do a ten k

1204
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: time trial is the plan right now, and just touch

1205
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: on stuff that I haven't done in a really long

1206
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: time and have some fun with it because I think

1207
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: it's something I've gotten away from, but it's a new

1208
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: way to test myself.

1209
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 2: A lot of people either go to your Instagram page

1210
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 2: or your Twitter profile and they see a woman who

1211
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: loves running and likes to have a good time. When

1212
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: you look in the mirror, what is it that you see?

1213
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, just like a big goofball. I think

1214
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: like the social media stuff is like pretty authentic, and

1215
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: it's usually something I'm just like randomly thinking in my

1216
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: head and I'll just I don't have a filter, so

1217
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 1: I'll put this on Twitter and like I'm just laughing

1218
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: at myself. So I don't know, whatever you see there's

1219
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: probably pretty accurate. I don't think take too much too serious.

1220
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 2: Best piece of advice that you say that you've been

1221
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: offered in your career.

1222
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: It's cliche, but enjoy the process. You know. It's not

1223
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: always about the results or the pr or something that

1224
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: we can measure. It's just about going out and having fun.

1225
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: Like I think my high school coach, you know, when

1226
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: I first started, it was like, if you're not having

1227
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: fun anymore, just stop. You don't have to do this.

1228
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: As soon as it's not enjoyable, you can stop. And

1229
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: I've always kept that in the back of my mind

1230
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: as far as it goes as being a profession. It's like,

1231
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: if this is just work and I don't enjoy it,

1232
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: there are many other things I can go do. So

1233
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: enjoy going out and running and investing time in yourself

1234
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: and putting one foot in front of the other.

1235
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: What do you think life looks like for you after running?

1236
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I don't know. I try not to visualize

1237
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: that just because I don't want to plan b It's

1238
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: I think it's one of those again. It's like kind

1239
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: of a cop out where like if I have too

1240
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: good of an exit strategy, like okay, no, I'm going

1241
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: to work here and this is what I'm like going

1242
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: to be building, or this is the next project. When

1243
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: you're at mile twenty four and your legs are cramping up,

1244
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: it's like, why am I doing this? I have that

1245
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: other thing all lined up and all it's beautiful. So

1246
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: I haven't really spent too much time looking at that,

1247
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: but I've put things in position to have like potential opportunities,

1248
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: so I don't think I'll be scrambling for too long, hopefully.

1249
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: I meant to ask you before when you mentioned that

1250
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: you were living every single day like a Boston Marathon champion.

1251
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 2: What was changing from the normal every day in terms

1252
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 2: of you said you were sleeping and eating like a

1253
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 2: Boston Marathon champion. I just love a little insight into that.

1254
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's just like analyzing decisions you make,

1255
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: like is it going out, you know, till eleven and

1256
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: having beers with your buddies or going home and getting

1257
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: the extra hours of sleep or whatever it is. It's

1258
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 1: making the tough decisions in workouts, like oh man, I

1259
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: should I pull the plug on this because it's getting hard?

1260
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: Or is it put leaning into the pain and pushing

1261
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: the last rep because that's what a champion would do.

1262
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: And it's all those little things and they all add

1263
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: up to make a huge difference. And I kind of

1264
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: joke about it. You know, what do all these things

1265
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: look like? And honestly, you just end up with a

1266
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: picture of MEB, So just go act like MEB every.

1267
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: Day, every single day.

1268
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: All right?

1269
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 2: The final question, You have an opportunity right now to

1270
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: offer the des who God maybe makes the call that

1271
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: she needs to drop out of her first Olympics, or

1272
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 2: is dealing with coming in second at the Boston Marathon.

1273
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: She's dealing with all these experiences that she's worked so

1274
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 2: hard for. You have an opportunity to offer her one

1275
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: of advice during that hurdle moment. What do you tell her?

1276
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: I would remind her that it's just running or putting

1277
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other and going forward,

1278
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: and it's great and when it goes really well, it's fantastic.

1279
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: But if it goes poorly, it's just running. And there's

1280
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: great relationships around you and people who really care about

1281
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: you whether you succeed or you fail, and those are

1282
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: the things that are important.

1283
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: What a great way to leave us off. Thanks so much,

1284
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: DOZ for your time.

1285
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got it.

1286
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: Please take a moment and leave a quick review by

1287
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: clicking the link with the description to the episode. We

1288
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 2: all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear

1289
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 2: about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle

1290
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 2: dot us, connect with the podcast on Instagram and Twitter

1291
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 2: at Hurdle podcast does. Where can they find you? How

1292
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: can they keep up with you? If they can try?

1293
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter and Instagram at Dez Underscore Linden

1294
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: and I do have a website, does Linden dot com.

1295
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 2: I've got to ask you really quick, guilty pleasure that

1296
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 2: you're going to the kitchen for during this time or

1297
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 2: we're staying inside.

1298
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Speaker 1: Probably beer's been a lot of extra beer. No. I

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Speaker 1: actually drafted a tweet today and it was like, it's

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Speaker 1: not that I dislike cooking. I just really am okay

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Speaker 1: with eating ingredients. So whatever kingredients.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Does I am at Emily a body

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Speaker 2: at Hurdle Podcast. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.