WEBVTT - Part One: The Black Bloc: It’s a Tactic, Not an Organization 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.280 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:06.680 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.360 a weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening, there's 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:11.680 people who try well, actually, you have a lot of 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:13.960 reminders of this right now, but there's people who try 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:15.960 to do good things in response to bad things, or 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.840 even sometimes not in response to bad things, just anyway, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.800 they just try and do good things. And I think 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.360 we should remember that. We should also remember that I'm 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.600 your host, murder Kiljoy. You actually can forget that, though, 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.040 you don't need to remember that. But what you do 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.600 need to remember is that we have a guest this week, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.360 and you need to know that our guest is named 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:34.640 Molly Conger. Hi. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.080 Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.080 Yeah, so I've never heard of you before. Do you 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.440 Do Anything? Molly is the host of one of my 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.360 favorite podcasts called Weird Little Guys that honestly, if you're 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.800 listening to the show, you've probably heard. But if you haven't, 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.120 you don't have to pause this and go listen. But 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:53.960 after this is done, you should go listen. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.400 It's sort of the opposite of this show, like tonally, 0:00:57.480 --> 0:00:59.440 it's about bad people who did bad stuff. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.920 Yeah, and I like that. It's like not at the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.360 like the Hitler scale, it's at the like I don't 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.679 think you've covered anyone I've heard of, and I have 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.800 spent a lot of time doing anti fascist work. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.760 No, just like weird little freaks trying to be like 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:14.559 Junior Hitler. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:20.080 Yeah, but no, I have no good transition for that. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.720 But we have a producer whose name is Sophie Hi Sophie, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.680 that's me Hi, And we have an audio engineer named 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.319 Eva hi Eva hi Eva, Hello Eva. And our theme 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.800 musical is written forced by unwoman. And Molly has no 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:34.240 idea what we're going to talk about today. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.759 It's always so nerve wrecking, like what if it's something 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.440 I can't be funny about. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.000 What if it's something you hate? I have no idea. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.400 Well, I actually have some news through even when you're 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:48.080 trying not to be funny, you're still funny. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:50.920 So I've been doing this series that people might have 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.240 or might not been listening to of the previous episodes, 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.880 where I've been covering neoliberalism and the people fighting against neoliberalism. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.720 And I just finished a four parter kind of about 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.200 this app Batistas and an intention to move into the 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.320 alter globalization movement. But I thought, let's talk about another 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:12.080 player in the alter globalization protests today, Mollie, we're going 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.799 to talk about the boogeyman of militant street protests. We're 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.720 going to talk about a polarizing tactic that is regularly 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.200 mistaken for a group or an ideology. It's a tactic 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480 that has escaped containment to get used by terrible people 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.120 as well, though usually not under the same name. I 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:32.519 don't know whether you can guess yet or not, or 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:33.120 I'll just tell you. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:34.120 Is it the black block? 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.799 It is, we're talking about the black block. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.560 When you were talking about fighting globalism, I was worried 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.040 you were to talk about Alex Jones, But then I. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.840 Remember globalization, very big difference. Okay, sorry, let's actually get 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:47.160 that out of the way real quick. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.680 I just got over I just got over COVID. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:51.880 Oh yeah, your brain's not back yet. 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.919 So there's this terribly named movement from the late nineties 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.920 early oughts. I'm not on script right now. I'm just 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.040 telling you all things. It was often at the time 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.639 called the anti globalization movement, but that was a name 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.040 given to it by the media, and some people within 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.360 the movement would call themselves anti globalization activists, but very 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.240 quickly people were like, no, that's actually not the thing 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.360 at all. We are a global movement that is about 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.240 tearing down borders. We are just against the neoliberalism that 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.720 is only tearing down economic borders of ways to extract 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.680 money from developing nations to give to rich people. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.079 So they're anti globe emoji, guys. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.680 I don't know whether globe emoji is. So the problem 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.560 is is that anytime someone says globalism, they're actually just 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:31.960 doing an anti Semitic dog whistle. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.880 That's why I was confused. Yeah, I'm on track now. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.320 Yeah, No, it's so hard to talk about alter globalization 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.960 movements like when right now the problem is fascism and tariffs. Right. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.600 But okay, so we're back to black Block. I'm with it. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.080 You ever heard of the black block? You clearly have 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.280 you guessed what we were talking about. 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:49.640 I've seen them around. 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.920 Yeah, all right, coming into this, what's your conception of 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:53.520 the black block? 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.400 Well, one time I was getting beaten over the head 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.880 with a bicycle by a Boston police officer and someone 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.440 from the block who I will never know, whose face 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.120 I never saw, pulled me out of there. And helped 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.840 me wash the pepper spray out of my eyes. So 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.840 in my heart all they are heroes. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.080 Fuck yeah, I feel like there's the heroic mode of 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.080 black block, and that's that's what it does, is it 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:16.000 helps the people around. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.840 I just kind of like wander around process zones like oblivious, 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.240 just like I don't know, like Mannic Pixie dream girl 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.120 at the protest, like nothing back could happened to me 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.159 because I'm just a little girl, Like I'm so fucking dumb. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.039 So I had my ass like yanked back out of 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.159 the line of fire by a stranger in a mask 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:37.600 several times. Cool, So thank you strangers. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.240 The shortest possible version that I could come up with 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.599 of the black block is that it is a street 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.159 protest tactic developed by the anti authoritarian left in which 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.800 everyone wears all black and masks and gathers together in 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.720 a group, a block, as it were. And if you're 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.440 listening to this in audio format and didn't look at 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.680 the title, there's no K in block. This is more 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.720 like block like the Soviet block. That's the only other 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:01.320 block I know of. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:06.000 A clocks, voting blocks, vote voting blocks, just what they see, Yeah, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.280 people doing stuff together. 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.360 It's not a word we use very often, but by 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.640 everyone doing that, not voting together, but by wearing masks 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.480 and the it creates anonymity which allows individuals to do 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.640 things that they might not want to be known for doing, 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.880 like breaking laws. Most famously, the black block is known 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.799 for smashing corporate property with hammers and bricks, spray painting 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.039 graffiti onto walls, things like that. It is also known, 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.240 i think, more by participants for things like what you're describing, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.599 of keeping people safe from police violence. When everyone does this, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.120 when everyone dresses all in black, or rather when a 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.640 significant portion of people do this, it makes it hard 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.040 to single people out for arrest, and it makes it 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.800 hard for individuals who are arrested to be convicted because, 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:56.080 as the cliche goes, no face, no case, which is 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:57.239 not legal advice. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.800 But you know what, it's a none of the sh 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.160 interpreted as advice or encouragement. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.520 Yeah, there's a lot of me trying to explain that 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.200 this is not encouragement. Despite if you stick around a 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.440 part too, I'll tell you how to do historical reenactments 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.240 of black blocks and how you can make it make 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:12.080 your loss choices. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:13.480 But this is not incitement. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.599 Right, black blocks allow for people who might otherwise be 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.880 more targeted for arrest for skin color reasons, gender presentation reasons, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:27.000 or some other reason to participate in rowdy actions with 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.280 a comparable level of safety. Black blocks also regularly de 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.160 arrest people. They defend peaceful protesters from police violence, and 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.960 they can distract police away from more vulnerable targets. It 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.960 is a contentious tactic, largely because it is usually accompanied 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.479 by property destruction, which is itself a contentious tactic at protests. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.800 You can't look at a burning waimow and tell me 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.040 you don't think that's sexy. Those people are liars. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.680 Oh yeah, no, I know that's okay. This is one 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:56.920 of the things that would come up all the time, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.440 right is people would always be like, oh, this alienates people, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.680 and I'm like, think so man, A lot of people 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.560 are like that's pretty cool, Like I hate the cop 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.920 car and now the cop car's on fire. This seems nice, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.080 but you know, teach their own. Okay, wait with the 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.640 burning weymo. Are either of you all got Speedy Black 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:21.560 Emperor fans, the band from the late nineties early odds. Okay, well, 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.000 this is important to approximately neither of you and some 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.840 small portion of our audience. There is a song called 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:29.560 the Dead Flag Blues and it starts with this long 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.200 poem that's very like apocalyptic anarchy stuff. Right. This is 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.320 a big band at the time, I swear, and the 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.680 first line is the car is on fire and there's 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:40.880 no driver at the wheel. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:42.800 Oh my god. They predicted it. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:43.880 They predicted it. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.560 They predicted the burning weymo. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.120 I know, which means the flags are all dead at 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.720 the top of their polls, and it means the skyline 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.800 was beautiful on fire, all twisted metal stretching upwards, everything 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.560 washed in the thin orange haze, the prophecy, and we're 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.360 going to open up our wallets and be full of blood. 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.080 So just to give everyone a heads up about what's going. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.320 To happen, I mean, parts of revelation are coming true. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.600 So it only makes sense that there would be modern 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:07.240 day prophecy. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.520 Yeah, exactly, a bunch of post rock people from Canada. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.600 So black block isn't always an appropriate tactic, but it's 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.800 a sexy one, and sometimes people make use of it 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.760 in moments when it might not be the best tool 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.520 available in the toolbox, Partly because when people are drawn 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.200 to it. They're drawn to it, you know, but it's 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.440 an important tool that's available for people want to participate 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.320 in militant street demonstrations. And I swear I actually did 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.160 plan this as my topic before the actions of the 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.520 last week two weeks ago for you all listening Synchronicity Baby, 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.560 and this week we're going to talk about the history 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.120 of the Black Bloc from its roots in West Germany 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.680 before it's spread across the world. And we're talking about 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.880 the Black Bloc today in the context of talking about 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.560 the ultra globalization movement, where it was a fairly major 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.720 social force. And I have a few different anecdotes I'm 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.600 going to use to start this story. This is gonna 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.679 be one of those episodes where Margaret is vaguely like, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.440 I've heard of this allegedly from a long time ago. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.000 I don't know Statue's limitations are, but it's at least. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.120 That I mean, as long as it's more than five 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.679 years ago, you're probably good in most states federally for sure, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.000 unless it was terrorism. 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.520 And also, like, genuinely it would be stolen valor for 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.960 me to claim that I am much of a frontlines 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.439 activist these days, but I mus start with some anecdotes. 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.640 One the video I saw this weekend from ongoing anti 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.559 ice demonstrations where people seemingly from all walks of life 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.120 are putting their safety and liberty online to materially stop 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:41.200 the functioning of the state and its deportations. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.720 Kidnapping people from their home. Yeah, business is the street. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:49.600 Children, Yeah, parents, It's a nightmare and it's bad, and 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.880 it's good that people are trying to store neighbors. Yeah. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:53.680 Fuck ice. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.559 Fuck Ice. Demonstrations that are happening, at least right now 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.520 as we record. I don't know, you know, you all 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.280 in the future, we'll have a different sense of what's happening. 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.000 It's probably worse by the time they hear this, Yeah. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.240 Or continuingly exciting. 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.280 I mean, I hope better. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.600 Yeah. Demonstrations seem to be aware of the weight of history, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.200 of the fact that if we don't stop authoritarianism, there's 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:20.280 actually no limit to how bad things might get. Right. Yeah, 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.440 And there's a video, and I honestly don't know what 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.200 from what city. I'm literally just guessing Seattle of some 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.720 riot cops trying to grab someone who's wearing all black 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.000 and arrest this person. There are maybe eight cops. In 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.640 this video, the person being grabbed, a couple of their 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.560 friends come forward, take a hold of their friend, and 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.400 under a hail of less lethal munitions escape with their 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.480 friend pull their friend of freedom. All three of them 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.480 were dressed more or less identically, and they disappeared into 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.160 a crowd that presumably you can't talk as of the 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.840 angle of the shot, but presumably there's a crowd with 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.800 many more people dressed identically to them. So it seems 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.040 quite unlikely that the police would be able to single 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.800 out the same person or the rescue ever again. And 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.920 I don't know that there's a single action I can 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.679 point to that communicates the idea of solidarity and shared 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:12.440 risk more than de arresting people. Two people went at 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.720 it against eight cops and got away and rescued their friend. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.400 It always looks like a miracle. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.920 I know, you look at it and you're like, but 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.640 there's this kind of thing sometimes we just want it 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:26.600 more than them. 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.360 Because they're just at work. I mean, some of them 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.840 have this like horniness for blood, and they really just 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:32.400 like they love hurting you. A lot of them like 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.800 to be honest, but like they're just at work, and 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.000 like if it becomes too hard. Sometimes they will just 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:37.679 give up. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.600 Yeah, and they're like, well, we can just go beat 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.920 another person soon, or like like literally in this case, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.320 they just like fall back and start shooting people with stuff. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.680 I'll just go beat somebody that doesn't fight back. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.440 Totally well, And that actually even gets to what's so 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:53.600 useful about these demonstrations is that they're like, oh, people 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.480 fight back when we do this. That's hard. We don't 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.640 like when things are hard, you know. And to me, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.080 this is the kind of heroism that fantasy books are 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.000 built on. I feel non hyperbolic when I say this. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.600 And what allowed them to do this in this particular 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.880 context of this particular video was black block attire. Sometimes 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.400 the black block is not perfect, or it might not 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.000 be the right move on any given day. Not everyone 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.880 who does any given tactic is a good person even 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.560 or a sint or a hero, but it is a 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.360 powerful tool and is one of many tools available to 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.200 people when downtrodden people are fighting against the people doing 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.120 the trotting. And I like this way of phrasing it 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.560 because I'm currently obsessed with words that are derived from 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:41.280 other words that are no longer used. Trotting. No one trods, 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.240 but down trodden. We know what that means. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.160 Oh, there's a word for that, for those like when 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.920 like every form of the word doesn't survive. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:49.199 Oh. 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:50.760 I was just reading about that the other day. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.240 My favorite is overwhelmed. Do you know what whelmed means? No, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:56.680 it means overwhelmed. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.000 Fuck, it's like flammable and inflammable. 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:05.120 I know, I know. Anyway, language nerds trying to talk 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.720 about history. Okay, another anecdote. I'll give you some anecdotes. 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.600 I I'll tell you the history. When I was a 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.199 baby author, I put out a book about anarchist fiction, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.520 and for it I interviewed my hero Bursula Lquin and 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.320 we did a talk together. But this is literally just 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:21.800 like I can shoehorn in that I once got to 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:23.880 do a talk with Liquin. That's not actually the purpose 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.040 of this, but I know right exactly, and it's all 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.120 been downhill from then. But doing a talk together was like, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:32.760 honestly one of the highlights of my life. We talked 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.679 about the role of anarchism in fiction for an hour 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.079 or so and then took questions. And this was interesting, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.280 right because people came out who wouldn't have just come 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.600 out to see Margaret talk about anarchism and fiction, right, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.080 And one man in the audience he raised his hand 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.680 and he said, and I'm paraphrasing from memory here, why 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.880 do you anarchists show up at anti war protests and 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.520 ruin them? And this is a question I had heard 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.760 a lot before, because I lived in Portland for a while. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.760 I cut my teeth there as a protester during anti 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.880 war protests of like two thousand and two and three. 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.400 And I thought about the man's question for a second, 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.080 and I told him, what you don't realize is that 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.800 when you have these big anti war protests are honestly 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.320 protests about almost anything. The ones that you think that 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.640 anarchists have ruined were often organized by anarchists in the 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:29.480 first place, and maybe not solely anarchists, and not necessarily 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.840 by people who are then in the black block, right, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:40.120 But people who believe in direct action are everywhere and 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.400 do an awful lot of the behind the scenes work, 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.479 way more behind the scenes work than on the groundwork, 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.320 just because literally in already to get anything done, you 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.920 have to do more behind the scenes work, which is 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.280 why we thank Sophie approximately once a week. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.200 Thank soph You're welcome. 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.120 I actually literally, that's what we were talking about before 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.360 we got on this, talking about like, we are so 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.480 grateful that all we have to do is spend hours 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.520 and hours and hours researching things we don't have to 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.400 then also do administrative back end work because we have 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.840 producers and editors and amazing teams. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:11.160 I can't send an email. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.080 Imagine sending an email. No, I also don't. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.520 Like sending an email, but I do it. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.200 Because you're so brave and strong. Yeah. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.920 Total, every time I do it, I'm like, oh, you 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:24.680 can do it. If you do that, you can pet 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.880 a dog. You can pet a dog. Oh it works. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.120 That makes sense. And so when I answered to this 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:32.800 man that there's all this behind the scenes work, I 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.840 don't think it helped him, but it was the best 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.480 I could do in terms of an answer. I think 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.320 he kind of came at that. You probably guessed by 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:39.600 the way I read that question. 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.040 I don't think that was a good faith question. 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.040 I'm not convinced it was. But the thing is is 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.080 that black Block was for years and I don't know 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.280 if this is still the case or not. I don't know, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.240 but it was the most visible component of the anarchist movement. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.120 It had black bloc, often have people with black flags, 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.720 and you know it could be easily recognized. But this 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.760 is only the tip of the iceberg, and not just 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:07.160 of anarchism, but of militant street demonstrations and things. And 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.360 if you thought regular protesters have a lot of thoughts, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.760 pro and con about the black Block, wait till you 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.040 hear anarchists discuss it. 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:21.080 Because nobody has more opinions about the tactics of anarchists 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:22.200 than anarchists. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.640 I know, I know, I read so much discourse so 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.720 that you all don't have to. So many scenes were 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.400 written in two thousand and two about. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.360 This, But like, I'm so tired thinking about how much 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:34.600 you had to create. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.080 I can't go back in time and get in that 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.880 man's face and interrogate this bad faith question that he asked. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.200 But my feeling is is a lot of people who think, like, oh, 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.960 like the block ruined this protest, Like what what do 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.760 you mean by that? Because to my mind, a lot 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.320 of people who feel that way they saw that, like 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.240 the black Block was involved in what the newspaper would 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.360 call a clash with the police. It's like, well, who 0:16:58.360 --> 0:16:58.960 started it? 0:16:59.000 --> 0:16:59.480 Did that happen? 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.840 Because the block was there or was it going to 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.400 happen regardless, and the person who took that baton hit 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:05.640 was wearing a mask and. 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.280 Not you Yeah. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.400 Right, Like we had, you know, rounds of this discourse 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.240 here in Charlottesville where I live. About eight years ago, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.400 there was a lot of talk about the block right, 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.280 and people who had never had this experience before were 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.120 radicalized by it. In favor of the block, in favor 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.320 you know. I think a lot of people are used, 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.639 like you know, Antifa and the block interchangeably, because those 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.920 are the people who are visibly anti fascist, visibly anarchists, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.560 visibly experienced protesters, and you have like middle aged soccer 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.840 moms getting up at city council and say, don't you 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.680 dare speak ill of those people. They saved my life. Yeah, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.520 like that protest was going to get ruined either way. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.240 The block didn't ruin it. They saved people's lives. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.480 I think that that's actually one of the most important 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.400 things that comes up, is that discourse about it that's 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.120 had by people who aren't present. Looks really really different. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.720 When I was young, I was wearing all black at 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.600 a demonstration and had a group of older women come 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.159 up and be like, we love you all. We have 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.879 developed a system to help hide you from police if 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.400 you need sweeties. And like they were like all had 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.720 costumes with like wings so that they could hold them 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.439 open and stuff, you know. And it's like, yeah, like 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.479 because actual solidarity is built in the streets together, you know, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.960 and being brave together. And I'm going to tell one 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.640 more anecdote about the block, and this one I think 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.440 you'll have more information about than me, so that's why 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:37.119 I put it in. On January twentieth, twenty seventeen, Trump 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.800 had his first inauguration and there was a man named 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.080 Richard Spencer. You ever heard of Richard Spencer? 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.080 Molly Oh, Richard the name I haven't heard in a 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:46.680 long time. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.480 And the reason we haven't heard his name in a 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.320 long time for anyone who doesn't know, there's this prominent 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.639 at the time right wing influencers, one of the more 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.680 important parts of the alt right. And he was giving 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.760 a speech to some media on the street when someone 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.320 in all black and a mask punched him in the 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:09.879