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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today. We are going

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Speaker 1: to cover a hard topic. And I say it's a

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Speaker 1: hard topic because I'm coming from the political world, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's something that became political that should not

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Speaker 1: have become political. And I say that because after my race,

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Speaker 1: I read a lot about the world of transgenderism and

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Speaker 1: kids transitioning and then kids detransitioning, and I thought, hmm,

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Speaker 1: are we doing a disservice to kids? Kids? Kids? I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're children who are going through this by having a

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Speaker 1: political discussion. And I kind of feel a couple different

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Speaker 1: ways about this. I feel like it's not a discussion

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Speaker 1: that should be in politics. But on the flip side,

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Speaker 1: I think it ended up there because there was a

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Speaker 1: loss of trust in the medical community that we thought

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Speaker 1: would always protect. Was there to do no harm. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're purposely doing harm, but it seems

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Speaker 1: as though there have been decisions made to push some

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Speaker 1: kids in an area of irreversible effects that maybe were

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Speaker 1: not best for them. This is, to me, was all

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Speaker 1: stuff that I'm hearing, though it's all stuff that I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing from the outside. And so I found Tamara Pittski

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Speaker 1: and she I reread her story and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I need someone who fully wants to care for people,

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Speaker 1: has no political affiliation, but has been through this and

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Speaker 1: seeing both sides to help explain this. So she graciously

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Speaker 1: agreed to join us today to talk about this. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: First, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely So you are out in Washington State and I

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Speaker 1: was reading through your story and I just found it

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Speaker 1: so fascinating because I was a psych major in college,

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Speaker 1: and I think that you talked about like you had

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Speaker 1: gone through losing your mom when at a young age

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Speaker 1: and losing your mom, you felt like, I can help

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Speaker 1: other people. And I think a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: you go into a field like that, I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of times people who have had something childhood cancer

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Speaker 1: become doctors. So when you've gone through a trauma, you

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Speaker 1: want to help other people. So I knew when I

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Speaker 1: read that that you were coming at this from like

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Speaker 1: a genuine place. And then you talk about your practice.

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Speaker 1: When did you start to see things where you said,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is getting dangerous or we're choosing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: Sure, So the gender firming care, the training, the mandated

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Speaker 2: training took place in September, and we hadn't really had

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Speaker 2: any trainings that were mandated until then, Like the trainings

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Speaker 2: that were happening periodically weren't mandated, but that one was.

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Speaker 2: And so I felt like, u oh, this doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: like this seems concerning to me. So I started doing

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Speaker 2: a lot of research. Was the it was Labor Day weekend.

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Speaker 2: I just like spent the whole weekend after I put

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Speaker 2: the kids to bed just researching what is gender for

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Speaker 2: me care? What are the pros, what are the cons?

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Speaker 2: I realized I had to dig pretty deep because like

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Speaker 2: when I would google what are the dangers of gender

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Speaker 2: firming care, the result would be things like how to

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Speaker 2: support your LGBTQ friend. Like I was like, Okay, well

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Speaker 2: now I'm realizing that I'm going to have to look

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Speaker 2: a little bit deeper because Google's not going to give

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Speaker 2: me a direct answer here. And it just broke my

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Speaker 2: heart to realize that, like, there are so many reasons

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Speaker 2: to put a pause on this, and instead, my employer,

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Speaker 2: Multi Care, was mandated that mandating that all of its

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Speaker 2: clinicians go to this training, and so, yeah, I went

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Speaker 2: to the training. I asked some questions. They were incredibly

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Speaker 2: hostile towards me, said I was doing damage to people. Basically,

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Speaker 2: I asked, like, if countries in Europe are pulling back,

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Speaker 2: if they're pressing pause on this and reevaluating things, why

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Speaker 2: are we not just like running full steam ahead, but

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Speaker 2: saying that like if we don't, if you don't do this,

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Speaker 2: you lose. You can't work for us anymore. Like this

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Speaker 2: is best practice. There's evidence to the contrary, and they're

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Speaker 2: just ignoring it, you know. And so I asked these

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Speaker 2: questions and the chat box just blew up, saying like

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Speaker 2: you are part of the problem. You need to check

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Speaker 2: your biases. So that's kind of where it all began.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's funny you mentioned this are the

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Speaker 1: European model, because I think that as a candidate running

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Speaker 1: and we're in the midst of this where we start

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Speaker 1: to see all of these kids and it's like a

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Speaker 1: real uptick suddenly of young girls who are deciding that

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Speaker 1: they want to transition. And at the same time, when

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Speaker 1: I was running, we started to see the British model

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Speaker 1: changing and they're like, you know what, we're going to

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Speaker 1: step back a few paces. Maybe we don't want to

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Speaker 1: do surgery. I'm kids right away, maybe we don't want

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Speaker 1: to go this far, and we start talking about this,

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Speaker 1: and it was I think, kind of like a secret

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Speaker 1: where people were like, look, I agree with you, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's political, don't really want to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: don't fear it in my family. But you never know

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Speaker 1: what your kids are watching. But families, I think, at

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Speaker 1: the same time are shamed. I mean, we've seen some

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Speaker 1: of these chat groups where parents are shamed because they

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Speaker 1: feel like they're losing their kid, but at the same

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Speaker 1: time they're being told this is the only answer. And

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Speaker 1: that was a story that I read a few I

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Speaker 1: would say, like six months ago of a mom who

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Speaker 1: was like, I had to say goodbye to my daughter

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Speaker 1: and accept that I was going to have a son,

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Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how those feelings work inside

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Speaker 1: of me. And no matter who I spoke to, they

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Speaker 1: were like, no, you have to accept this and be

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Speaker 1: encouraging of this. So I think that that's something that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't really think about, is how

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Speaker 1: it affects the outside family. I mean, we're focused on

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Speaker 1: the kid, but it's the whole family that goes through this.

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Speaker 1: And it's a weird thing when you suddenly see the

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Speaker 1: medical community saying you have to, you have to, you

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Speaker 1: have to. You had three patients that kind of put

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Speaker 1: you you you went through this with them, and you said,

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Speaker 1: something feels off. Can you explain that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I mean Multi Care actually sent me a

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Speaker 2: season desist about that. I'm not supposed to go into details.

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Speaker 1: About Okay, well you don't have to do that, but you.

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Speaker 2: Can read about it in the article. So I'll just say,

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Speaker 2: go to the Free Press article and you can read

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Speaker 2: all about that. Basically. In short, I had these.

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Speaker 1: I mean think just what you just said is like shocking.

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Speaker 1: You are not allowed to talk about your own experiences

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Speaker 1: that you felt were leading you to say, this may

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Speaker 1: be harmful to kids. And I think that that's something

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Speaker 1: we we sort of kind of expect from doctors is

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Speaker 1: to go, okay, I'm questioning some of this science, because

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Speaker 1: science is about questioning and ask something new comes out,

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Speaker 1: you question it, but you're not allowed to question it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I interrupted, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, you're fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I remember sitting my boss down after I found

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Speaker 2: out that one of my clients was going to be

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Speaker 2: taken away from me, like risk management decided that I

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Speaker 2: couldn't have them anymore because I was asking questions. They

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Speaker 2: had an extense of trauma history, and there's so many

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Speaker 2: other factors at play, And I remember sitting her down

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Speaker 2: and I was like, does this feel okay to you?

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Speaker 2: Like we can't ask questions without losing our clients. Like

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Speaker 2: parents are bringing us their kids thinking that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be able to help them, and we're not doing

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Speaker 2: anything but just like rubber stamping whatever the kid says

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Speaker 2: and saying, yeah, absolutely, this thing that you're experiencing as

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Speaker 2: a thirteen year old, probably you know exactly who you

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Speaker 2: are and who was at thirteen, knew who we were.

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Speaker 2: Like it's just breaks my heart, you know. And I

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Speaker 2: remember talking a little bit with my friend. I was like,

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Speaker 2: my daughter woke up with a cough one day and

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Speaker 2: I was like, if I took her to the doctor

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Speaker 2: right now, and the doctor was like, you should probably

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Speaker 2: get her on like a lung transplant list, I'd be like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, Like if you don't do that, you're

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Speaker 2: going to kill her. I'd be like, Okay, absolutely, I

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Speaker 2: have to do that. Then you know, i' probaly would

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Speaker 2: get a second opinion. But that's what we're doing to

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Speaker 2: these children, like if you don't affirm your child, then

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Speaker 2: you're going to kill them, like they will commit suicide,

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Speaker 2: they'll whatever, or you're going to lose them in some

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Speaker 2: other way. Like that is as a parent so terrifying

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Speaker 2: to hear, and that's what we're doing, rather than being like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, yeah, absolutely, let's walk this process out

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Speaker 2: with them, let's let them get a little bit older.

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Speaker 2: But there's so many other factors at play, especially the

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Speaker 2: social piece.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there was a huge uptick during twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Kids were on their phones a lot and they were like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe I am this thing that I'm seeing now, you know.

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Speaker 1: Because you're trying to figure out who you are at

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Speaker 1: that age, I mean gladly the nature of hormones going

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Speaker 1: through your body and you you are literally changing, so

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Speaker 1: you don't feel comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And oftentimes I feel like there's a autism diagnosis,

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Speaker 2: and so then I feel like that needs attention too,

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Speaker 2: because often children with autism don't feel like they fit

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Speaker 2: in anywhere, and so maybe they'll think, oh, the answer

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Speaker 2: here is in my gender. Like I don't I'm not

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Speaker 2: actually this gender, you know, I just feel like, there's

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Speaker 2: so many other things that we should be exploring and

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Speaker 2: working through these these young people, and they were just yes,

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Speaker 2: way by whatever they say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've never really historically questioned the medical community. And

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Speaker 1: I think that I tell this story. I experienced this

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Speaker 1: when I had cancer, because I went to my local

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Speaker 1: hospital and they were like, this is the treatment, this

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Speaker 1: is what you have to do, and inside of me

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Speaker 1: something went, I don't know if that's the only treatment.

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Speaker 1: It was a treatment, there's no question that was a treatment,

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Speaker 1: but was that the treatment that I was going to

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Speaker 1: say was best for me? And so I think that

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Speaker 1: that's something we're not used to as a society. We're

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Speaker 1: inherently trusting of our medical community, believing that the person

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Speaker 1: that right there in town is going to tell us

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Speaker 1: the best thing, and it's okay to push and say, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to see something else. But I think that

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Speaker 1: with this particular issue, people have felt like, if you're pushing,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do conversion therapy and convert the person

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Speaker 1: back to being the gender that they were born as.

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Speaker 1: But it it's weird because the science would show that

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Speaker 1: eight out of ten kids that have gender dys For you,

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Speaker 1: when they're young, will grow out of it. So why

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Speaker 1: can't you have that conversation? I guess that's where we're

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Speaker 1: all going.

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Speaker 2: Why. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it

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Speaker 2: at all. It doesn't make any sense to me. I

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Speaker 2: also feel like, as far as the medical community, how

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Speaker 2: are you supposed to have any faith in a system

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Speaker 2: where you know, like, if practitioners question authorities and say

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Speaker 2: like like the higher ups and say, hey, is this

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Speaker 2: really the best thing, They'll be silenced. Like, how are

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Speaker 2: you supposed to have faith in a medical community where

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Speaker 2: the people who are providing the direct care if they

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Speaker 2: err a concern might just be silenced and not able

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Speaker 2: to actually explore that.

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Speaker 1: Further, right, Because that is what happened to you and

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Speaker 1: that we really haven't gotten into. So you talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the cease and desist, but this was

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Speaker 1: because when you pushed back, they were they pretty much

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Speaker 1: just said, see ya, you're no longer here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I started to ask questions and send

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Speaker 2: emails and just like thought out things about like sock

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Speaker 2: and you know, just the things that I was reading,

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Speaker 2: like there can be other factors at play that could

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Speaker 2: impact a child's gender identity, you know, and when I

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Speaker 2: would ask these questions, I would be met with just

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Speaker 2: like this response that no, there's no, there's no other

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Speaker 2: factors at play. If the child is saying that they

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Speaker 2: are not the gender that they were assigned at birth,

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Speaker 2: then they're not and you have to just take them

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Speaker 2: at you know, take them at their word with that.

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Speaker 2: And so when I got asked to write a letter

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Speaker 2: for a thirteen year old to start tyestosterone, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I absolutely can't do that, like there's so much else

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Speaker 2: going on here. And so I asked the person who

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Speaker 2: did the training again and my boss, and they reported

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Speaker 2: me to risk management. And when I met with risk management,

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Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, finally she'll go through the chart. We'll

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Speaker 2: realize like, oh yeah, there are some other things here

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Speaker 2: that really just need some you know, therapeutic attention rather

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Speaker 2: than just fast tracking them to the gender clinic. And

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Speaker 2: instead they decided that I was the risk not not

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Speaker 2: starting the kid on testosterone, and so they took the

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Speaker 2: client from me.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. You and I have kind of

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Speaker 1: had a similar experience when it comes to trying to

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Speaker 1: figure this out because it's a genuine I mean, I

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Speaker 1: do believe that there are people with gender dysphoria. I

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I studied this in college and back

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago or twenty five years ago when I

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Speaker 1: was in college, this is this was in the DSM.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were studying that there was gender dysphoria.

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Speaker 1: We know that it exists, but it is not this common.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's when some of us started to go,

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Speaker 1: WHOA wait a minute, how did it happen that all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden There are so many people that feel

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Speaker 1: that they were born in the wrong body, and generally

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Speaker 1: it was once the person became an adult, they would say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've always kind of felt this way, but really, parents

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Speaker 1: weren't taking children of age two and saying, oh, my

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Speaker 1: kid is obviously in the wrong body. So I think

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Speaker 1: that we both started to dig into what is really

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Speaker 1: going on. And as you dig into it, the stories

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Speaker 1: are heartbreaking of these kids who had their genitals removed,

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Speaker 1: their breasts removed, and especially I think that as I

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Speaker 1: think it kind of was something that was near and

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Speaker 1: dear to my heart as someone who's gone through a

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Speaker 1: double missctomy as a cancer patient knows what it's like

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Speaker 1: to you know, that's no longer your body, right, But

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Speaker 1: I had to because mine were killing me. They were

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Speaker 1: told theirs were killing them, but it wasn't true. And

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Speaker 1: so these women, who oftentimes did go through some sort

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Speaker 1: of abuse or have some other like you talked about

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Speaker 1: autism or a feeling of disconnection, were convinced, sometimes at fifteen,

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Speaker 1: sometimes at seventeen, to have their breasts removed. And then

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Speaker 1: it seems like there's usually like a five to seven

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Speaker 1: year period for those who weren't actually meant to transition,

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Speaker 1: to go, wow, this was wrong, but they've had these

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Speaker 1: life changing effects.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I hear that story to. You know

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Speaker 2: those stories too. And I think I could not live

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Speaker 2: with myself if I signed my name to a document

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Speaker 2: where five, ten, fifteen years from now, the person is

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Speaker 2: in that place where they're like, I can't believe that.

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Speaker 2: Like my therapist just smiled and nodded and agreed with

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Speaker 2: what I was saying at thirteen, and now I don't

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Speaker 2: have my breasts anymore, you know, like, how can I

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Speaker 2: live with myself? Well?

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Speaker 1: And I love the fact that you I think it

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Speaker 1: was interesting that you were like, oh, well, now that

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Speaker 1: this is being reported, they'll dig into her files. And

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Speaker 1: they didn't. And the reason I find that fascinating is

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Speaker 1: because that's what all of these d transitioners said. Why

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Speaker 1: didn't people ask me more? Why didn't they dig deeper?

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Speaker 1: Why didn't they find out what was really at the

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Speaker 1: root of me feeling like I wasn't myself.

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Speaker 2: Because we're not allowed to, which is baffling to me. Like,

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Speaker 2: so as soon as somebody comes in and says that

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Speaker 2: they have gender distressed, we have to just throw out

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Speaker 2: all our clinical training. We can't do our jobs anymore,

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Speaker 2: or else it's considered conversion thing therapy or something like

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Speaker 2: trans transphobia or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know, But doesn't it go against everything that you

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Speaker 1: have been trained in. I mean, you're supposed to dig deep.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I worked at I worked at our

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Speaker 1: clinic at the University Kentucky, and if you were a

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Speaker 1: student there, you could work in the clinic and read

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Speaker 1: through the files as long as they weren't someone connected

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Speaker 1: to the university or student, and you could read so

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Speaker 1: deeply into how these people had talked through their trauma

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Speaker 1: in their life, and how they had worked through and

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Speaker 1: how the therapist worked through this with them such a

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Speaker 1: desperate need, and here you are, this person who is

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Speaker 1: so genuine in what you do, and you were taken

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Speaker 1: out and then you ended up going someplace out and

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Speaker 1: they saw the article and then you lost that job.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been They didn't say that was why. They

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Speaker 2: just said, I don't think you're the right fit for

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Speaker 2: this position. And so then I was, you know, single

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Speaker 2: mom of three with no income. You just it's been

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Speaker 2: so hard and I still have no regrets because I

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Speaker 2: feel like somebody has to advocate for these children. Somebody

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Speaker 2: has to have a voice and say like, no, this

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Speaker 2: isn't okay. We need to like reevaluate things.

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Speaker 1: So how do what do you see as the next steps?

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Speaker 1: Because I was reading about what some of these kids

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Speaker 1: were saying and honestly made me feel incredibly guilty that

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Speaker 1: I've spoken on this topic as a political person, because

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Speaker 1: they were overwhelmingly like, now that I've come out and

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Speaker 1: I've said that this wasn't me, people call me this

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Speaker 1: like right wing crazy person and they're saying I'm political

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Speaker 1: and my body is not a political issue, and I'm

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Speaker 1: my gosh, we've heard that in so many cases where

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Speaker 1: people come out and jump on something politically, but these

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Speaker 1: kids really need an advocate. And how do we how

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Speaker 1: do we say, gosh, look at Great Britain, look at

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Speaker 1: it's like the Netherlands and all these countries that are saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: this was wrong. Talk a little bit about that, because

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Speaker 1: they have changed what they're doing. Correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have. I don't know a lot of the

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Speaker 2: details of it, because i'm you know, I just I

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Speaker 2: just know that they have done the best like long

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Speaker 2: term studies, and that they have decided that, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we need to stop this. We can't. There's no there's

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Speaker 2: no way right now to know which of the children

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Speaker 2: that are presenting with gender distress are going to grow

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Speaker 2: up to be adults who are like, yeah, no, I

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Speaker 2: still experience this. So if we can't determine that right now,

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Speaker 2: which of the you said eight out of ten, you know,

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Speaker 2: will sort of outgrow it or end up being gay

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Speaker 2: or something down the road. Right, But like we can't

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Speaker 2: figure out what who the twenty percent are, then we

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Speaker 2: need to not do anything. These are children, you know,

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Speaker 2: we can't just like make these decisions based on what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, you know, without any sort of like ability

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Speaker 2: to really evaluate.

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Speaker 1: That isn't that kind of what therapy was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be though, was to talk through get through every every

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Speaker 1: week and go through the challenges of what life is

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Speaker 1: and try to do that and change mindset and the

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Speaker 1: way you interpret things, in the way you think about things,

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Speaker 1: rather than trying to medicate it away or cut it away.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying change mindset from the standpoint of hey,

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Speaker 1: this is not who you are. I mean, change your

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Speaker 1: outlook on things, like try to see things in a

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Speaker 1: positive way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is. Yeah, And you know, I'm not an

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Speaker 2: expert on this topic. I'm just a therapist and I'm

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Speaker 2: just a mom. And I hope that like people can

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Speaker 2: feel free to speak out even if they don't have

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Speaker 2: like years of experience being an activist in this area.

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Speaker 2: You know, like if something feels wrong, like have a

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Speaker 2: voice about it. You know, it's just so important. And

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Speaker 2: I think that that's what it's going to take for

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Speaker 2: things to change, is people saying no, I'm gonna you know,

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Speaker 2: not let you intimidate me out of saying that I

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Speaker 2: have concerns about this. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately people transitioners

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Speaker 2: down the road to too and I hate that it

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Speaker 2: would have to come to that, that people were going

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Speaker 2: to keep hurting children. But I think that's kind of

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Speaker 2: what it's going to end up taking because no one

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Speaker 2: seems to be really listening all that much.

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Speaker 1: That's actually an interesting point because we've had this discussion

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Speaker 1: multiple times about other issues where people have sued, whether

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Speaker 1: it comes to something happening in school or social media

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is, that is a situation where it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, money talks. When people feel it financially,

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Speaker 1: then they start to change, and maybe that's these hospital

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Speaker 1: systems or a bigger you know, a AAAP or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. Because I think when we saw the American

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Speaker 1: Academy of Pediatrics come out and be like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you have to do this, people start to go, what

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Speaker 1: this We've inherently always trusted you. This is the agency

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Speaker 1: that takes care of our children. And then you're saying this,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, we're seeing these stories of

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Speaker 1: kids who have had their penis cut off and then

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Speaker 1: they can never have a normal they can never urinate

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Speaker 1: normally again, or they leak or there's and I know

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Speaker 1: this is very very graphic, but I think that when

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Speaker 1: I think about this when I think about mutilating a

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Speaker 1: child like this, and there is no way that you

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Speaker 1: can fully understand what that means at that age. And

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Speaker 1: I think, honestly, even going through a double miasectomy myself

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Speaker 1: and knowing I had to go through it and going

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Speaker 1: through all of the details of it, until you've lived it,

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Speaker 1: you do not know what that is to have part

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Speaker 1: of your body cut off. And this is so much

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Speaker 1: more extreme to think about what they're doing to children's genitals,

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Speaker 1: and you see these scars on the legs and then

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Speaker 1: new body parts built, and then generally these people go,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen. And I

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Speaker 1: think the most criminal part about this, and I've talked

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Speaker 1: about this on the podcast before and again it is graphic,

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Speaker 1: but I think a big part of our life as

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Speaker 1: human beings on this earth and when we're here is

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Speaker 1: intimate relationships and finding someone that you can love and

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Speaker 1: fully live life with or have those experiences with, and

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Speaker 1: that is something that is robbed from these children, whether

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Speaker 1: it is these puberty blockers that cause them to never

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Speaker 1: grow sexually and they can never have an intimate relationship,

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Speaker 1: or it is having your body parts cut off and

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Speaker 1: you never feel down there again. And that's that seems

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Speaker 1: to be consistently I hear from d transitioners. We weren't told,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's something you've been concerned about, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So when I was reading through the different gender

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Speaker 2: clinic notes, there's like a form where they just kind

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Speaker 2: of like fill in things for the kid, you know,

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Speaker 2: And I'm not convinced that kids are really Like I

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Speaker 2: had one client who their initial apployment the gender clinic

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Speaker 2: was given the okay to start testosterone. And this is

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Speaker 2: a client who in their therapy sessions with me wasn't

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Speaker 2: really very verbal. So I found it kind of shocking

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Speaker 2: that they would be willing to are be able to

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Speaker 2: to verbalize things the way that the note said that

434
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 2: they were. And so yeah, and I know that there

435
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 2: was a spot in the note where it said like

436
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: if your therapist isn't affirming, then that can cause you know, harm,

437
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: and so you should find one who is affirming, which

438
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: basically means one who'll write this letter for you. But yeah,

439
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: I don't think that they are beings. This information is

440
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 2: being really spelled out, and how how could it be

441
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: if after the initial appointment they're given the okay to

442
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: start testosterone or you know, some other sort of procedure.

443
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

444
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We need to be clear about

445
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 1: one thing because the political world getting involved in this,

446
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: from my perspective, was generally genuinely as a mother who

447
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: looks at this and goes, gosh, how can you permanently

448
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: damage a kid like this? We've got to put this off,

449
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: We've got to wait, We've got to talk through this

450
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: and wait. And I think most parents in the political

451
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: world went what are we how could we possibly do this?

452
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: But it became demonized talking about it because if you

453
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: didn't accept it, you were transphobic, and it was that

454
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: you were not attacking the medical community or the surgery,

455
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: was that you were attacking the child instead of protecting

456
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: the child, which I think most people who are like,

457
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Their goal was always to

458
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: protect the child. They were created into this monster who

459
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: wanted to attack the kids. And then you had all

460
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: these activists come out and yell about it. I don't

461
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: deny that there is an LGB kick community out there.

462
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: I don't deny that there are people who feel like

463
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: they are they are in the wrong body, and that

464
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: there are successful transitions in the world, and that happens

465
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: to adults. In fact, one of the people that I

466
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: read about had a transition between at about fifteen years old,

467
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: de transitioned at thirty and is now a person who

468
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: is out there saying no transition should happen before twenty five.

469
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: And I agree, I think we've all learned it. That's

470
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: when the the frontal lobe is fully formed, when you

471
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: can actually understand consequence. Why would we allow children to

472
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: have surgery before they can understand the consequence. I know

473
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: that you are an advocate to that community and you

474
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: and you want to take care of them. So you

475
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: created a nonprofit called the LGBT Courage Coalition. Tell us

476
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: a little bit about that.

477
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't create it. I think Jamie Reid was

478
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: behind that. But they are supporting people who are coming

479
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: out to have a voice in this area and just saying, like,

480
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: you know, if if you end up speaking out against

481
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: your employer, your employer, or you know, saying like I

482
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: have concerns about this, and your family turns on you,

483
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: your employer fires you, like, we will catch you, like

484
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: we will help you we will support you. We will

485
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: make like they set up a give send to go

486
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 2: for me, so that I'm not just like not able

487
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: to provide for my family like they just I think

488
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: it's just important for people who are who have these

489
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 2: concerns to know that there is an organization out there

490
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: who will help you, like, will help you get through

491
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: whatever ends up happening. When you decide to say to

492
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: speak out and say I have concerns.

493
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's key because I think there if

494
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: what I've read is true, there are multiple people in

495
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: the medical and therapeutic community who are saying behind the scenes,

496
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: this is messed up. We can no longer do this,

497
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: but they can't speak out. And I mean, I think

498
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: that this is very similar to when we went through

499
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: some of these pharmaceuticals that were coming out and people

500
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: are like, I don't want to say that. I don't

501
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: think it's right because I don't want to screw up

502
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: grant funding and things like that. There's just a community

503
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: that is hard to speak out against. When you're doing researcher,

504
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: you're trying new things. So I think that's important if

505
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: you are out there and you've seen something that you

506
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: say this is wrong, and you genuinely know what's wrong.

507
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: This is an organization that can help you if you

508
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: do speak out and you do get fired. It's the

509
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: LGBT Courage Coalition. So check that out. I think it's

510
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: so important. You know, what do you I want to

511
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: ask before I let you go? What do you think

512
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: the future is? Is there something that we can do?

513
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: Is there a role where maybe a political advocate comes

514
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: together with a medical advocate and can do something to say,

515
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: let's take a look at protecting kids' emotions out of it,

516
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: transphobia out of it? What does it take? What is

517
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: the reality? What are other countries doing? Do you see

518
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: a world where that could come together?

519
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: I have to believe that there is one, And I

520
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: know that there's a lot of people who are fighting

521
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: this fight who are not going to give up until

522
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: that happens. So I'm very encouraged to know that there's

523
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: people who who care about our young people and this

524
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: is not a transphobic or political issue for them either,

525
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: Like we just want to make sure that we're not

526
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: harming children. So that's my I believe that that that

527
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: kind of that can happen. I just think it's going

528
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: to be a slow process.

529
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: Do you see an opportunity for you to go back

530
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: into therapy?

531
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm working on opening a private practice. So that's

532
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: another way I can, you know, help these families is

533
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: just by providing a place where we do therapy and

534
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: not just you know, fast track them to medicalization.

535
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: This has become kind of a national story because it

536
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: was in the New York Times, you were in the

537
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: Free Press. A lot of people have heard this. Have

538
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: other D transitioners reached out to you at all and said, hey.

539
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 2: Thanks, you know, I've gotten anyone who's reached out to

540
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: me fortunately has been very like encouraging and like, yeah,

541
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 2: a lot of times they do have an experience with it,

542
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: whether it's themselves or it's a parent who's like, my

543
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: child went through this, and now, you know, I'm so

544
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: grateful for this that they ended up figuring out who

545
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: they were before they ended up having surgery or whatever else.

546
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, a lot of people have reached out

547
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: and just been like, thank you for having a voice.

548
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 2: This is so important and I'm grateful. I'm so grateful

549
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: that like I've been given a platform to have a

550
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: voice and just say something is not right here with

551
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: this with the medical community, and you really need to

552
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 2: vet your therapist that you're sending your children too, because

553
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: they might be operating under a rule from their employers

554
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: saying that if they don't, you know, do gender firming care,

555
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: then they're not going to be employed there anymore.

556
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: I think there's always a line that we're trying to

557
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: figure out. What is the line between where government starts

558
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: and private citizens, you know, government ends and private citizens begin,

559
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: and at what time do we want government to step in?

560
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: And I think that there have been people politically who

561
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: have come out and said I'm running and this is

562
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: an issue for me, and I'm going to take care

563
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: of it. And that's when people feel like, oh, wait

564
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: a minute, this person is getting too far into my

565
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: private life. But I do think there's a place where

566
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: elected officials can advocate for folks like you, for detransitioners,

567
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: and go to the medical community and say, hey, can

568
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: we look at this, Can we just reasonably as scientists

569
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: look at this, and can you come back to us

570
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: and tell and explain to us why other countries are

571
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: doing it differently, why you think that the United States

572
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: needs to do it this way. I think that's a

573
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: hard place for us to get to because there's been

574
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: so much trauma about around this. But I would really

575
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: love to see some of our elected officials partner with

576
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: someone like you and be able to say, hey, can

577
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: we have some hearings on this? Can we have some

578
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: discussions on this that our reality where we actually go

579
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: through the true numbers of kids who have to have

580
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: something done and kids who should wait. I honestly, I

581
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: believe that everybody should wait and not have any permanent

582
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: interventions until they've gone through that you know, twenty five

583
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: year old point of fully developed and understanding what's happening.

584
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: But I do think that there's a path for people

585
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: to join together and protect kids.

586
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I know the Courage Coalition sent out letters

587
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: to my local politicians to just let them know, you know,

588
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: this is what's happening at Multi Care, and as far

589
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: as I know, no one responded. So it would be

590
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: so great if people could be like, you know, yeah,

591
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: let's look into this and not see it as like

592
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: a left or right wing issue, just to look into

593
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: it and make sure that the kids in our community

594
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: are being taken care of.

595
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's definitely interesting, and i'd sometime I'd

596
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: like to talk to you about that more, because maybe

597
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: that's the right route. Maybe we take it out of

598
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: the political world and it goes into the medical world

599
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: and those people chat. But Tamara Pitsky, thank you for

600
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: your bravery and thank you for talking about this today.

601
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

602
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on the

603
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to

604
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: Tutor dixonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, or

605
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

606
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts and join us next time on

607
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day.