Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene. Along
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Brownwitz Jay Leye. We bring
Speaker 1: you insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and
Speaker 1: international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance, an Apple podcast, Suncloud, Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot Com and of course on the Bloomberg Terminal. Tony
Speaker 1: presents you joining us now markets stryingagist and portfolio manager
Speaker 1: at Pimco. Tony, this cyclist moving so quickly, that's the story,
Speaker 1: the epicenter of your round. Look with you in the
Speaker 1: team right now, can you just walk us through how
Speaker 1: you thinking about the world around us at the moment? Well,
Speaker 1: we we When we talk like to talk about the
Speaker 1: Yiel curve and Yel curve movement speaks this idea of
Speaker 1: a fast moving cycle. Does seem like the economic cycle
Speaker 1: is moving at warp speed. Think about it. We're probably
Speaker 1: at mid cycle, meaning look at the unemployment rate. Fo
Speaker 1: what is a late cycle condition. Of course, a nonemployer
Speaker 1: rate that's lower, and that lower rate could be achieved
Speaker 1: the full employment next year. So that's a fast moving cycle.
Speaker 1: In fact, the Federal Reserve is projecting that the unemployment
Speaker 1: rate will be in the mid threes by the end
Speaker 1: of next year. So for investors, it's important to be
Speaker 1: on your toes. It's the simple way you're saying. It's
Speaker 1: important to be active with the portfolio management, to be
Speaker 1: thinking more about security selection a region, regional selections, etcetera, uh, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But then it is a fast mood recycle. One final
Speaker 1: note that the gield curve again, it's it has flattened recently,
Speaker 1: and that's something that happens later in the cycle because
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve is raising the short term rate, which
Speaker 1: pushes up it yield relative to the long term rate flattening.
Speaker 1: That's where I want to go to Ston spread this morning.
Speaker 1: Eighteen basis points, Tony. Where it is a two year
Speaker 1: yield that matters to you? Were at zero point four
Speaker 1: four percent? Just you're just in your mind, Tony. Where's
Speaker 1: the two year yield a tip point or a critical point?
Speaker 1: For Chris Enzi, Well, the two year relative to other
Speaker 1: yields matters a lot, and it's just that the two
Speaker 1: year will tell us about the two year window. And
Speaker 1: we know that the markets looking at shorter term interest
Speaker 1: rates and forward interest rates like Euro dollar futures is
Speaker 1: projecting at the Federal Serve will increase its policy rates
Speaker 1: sometime next year, perhaps as early as June. The markets
Speaker 1: penning in several interest rate types. But the other these
Speaker 1: two extraordinary things about the two year to ten years spread.
Speaker 1: One is the fact that the spread started to flatten
Speaker 1: earlier in the cycle than we have seen since the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. And then in the last three cycles, the
Speaker 1: last three recessions, the spread between the two and the
Speaker 1: tenure no was is why these three basis points. In
Speaker 1: other words, the markets were patient about the idea of
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve interest rate hikes. It thought that industrate highs
Speaker 1: were somewhere on the distant horizon, and so long term
Speaker 1: yields had stayed high. Um But now so this this
Speaker 1: is the peak. This time was one fifty, so it's
Speaker 1: half the level of the previous cycles. Was to cut
Speaker 1: to the chase. The second part of the extraordinary part
Speaker 1: of about the yield curve two cents spread is that
Speaker 1: the tenure yield it's projected to be low, and on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg of function through new Bloomberg uses f w c
Speaker 1: M it shows forward interest rates and you see the
Speaker 1: market is saying that there's a benign story to evolved
Speaker 1: unfold over time, that interest rates probably won't get up
Speaker 1: two and a half presented as far out in these forewers,
Speaker 1: as I look at the table calling it ten years
Speaker 1: plus well but tony just to sort of tie this
Speaker 1: all together, then what is the message from the yield curve?
Speaker 1: Is it that the market that the economy can't necessarily
Speaker 1: handle too much tightening from central banks? Or is it
Speaker 1: just that the margin is going to naturally be narrower
Speaker 1: because of this ceiling on longer term yields? He said,
Speaker 1: those are probably the conclusions that most would draw from
Speaker 1: it now. But perhaps forward interest rates are wrong. Perhaps
Speaker 1: the market, the consensus and that's uh embedded in these
Speaker 1: forward rates is wrong and thinking that the twenty tens
Speaker 1: uh it will be uh repeated in the twenties. But
Speaker 1: the twenty tents is probably the wrong analog for the twenties.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on in pimco's secular outlook. We
Speaker 1: talk about speak to transformations, for example, becoming more digital,
Speaker 1: more inclusive, more green. Those are the three major transformations
Speaker 1: we see. All those things could We're not saying they
Speaker 1: will result in faster growth, and simply doing the math,
Speaker 1: if if economic growth is four percent, as the FED
Speaker 1: projects next year and PIMCO projects as well, then looking
Speaker 1: at the next five years, even if growth is two
Speaker 1: percent of subsequent four we'll still have a rate that's
Speaker 1: about two and a half. So that would be a
Speaker 1: lot better than the twenty tens, simply just by that math.
Speaker 1: And so it's possible the growth is faster and these
Speaker 1: these forwards are wrong, and therefore race will go high.
Speaker 1: We're not suggesting that race will go materially higher. In fact,
Speaker 1: we would say we may turn to certain old normal conditions,
Speaker 1: but with new neutral characteristics, which is to say that, yes, Lisa,
Speaker 1: that the battles are can't raise its interest rate too
Speaker 1: much because of deadloads and certain other factors. Tony, we're
Speaker 1: out of time. Haven't even got the time to plug
Speaker 1: your book. Gotta let you go, Tony CRISCENTI, thank you.
Speaker 1: Gonna catch up as a white right now. This is
Speaker 1: an incredibly important interview for two thousand twenty two, and
Speaker 1: indeed two thousand us on fired again. The bears have
Speaker 1: been vanquished here, no question about that. But a recurring
Speaker 1: theme that we have on surveillance is look to Asia
Speaker 1: and look to the true growth there. Gabriela Santos with
Speaker 1: JP Morgan joins us their global market strategist. Gabriel, I
Speaker 1: love how your essay dovetails into what I'm seeing in
Speaker 1: the new Foreign Affairs magazine, which is China. And you
Speaker 1: define a new China. What is the new China? That's right, Tom,
Speaker 1: And in a lot of our conversations with investors, China
Speaker 1: keeps coming up time and time and again as really
Speaker 1: an area of growth in portfolios, and I think it's
Speaker 1: much more about a conversation about Chinese markets more so
Speaker 1: than than China's a comedy going forward. I see the
Speaker 1: new China really being about one that stresses the quality
Speaker 1: over the quantity of growth um that also prioritizes other
Speaker 1: objectives in addition to growth alone, such as reducing an
Speaker 1: equality and energy transition, a development of capital markets, and
Speaker 1: also in China that has new areas of emphasis. So
Speaker 1: this year has been all about the areas of pressure
Speaker 1: in the new China, but there are also areas of
Speaker 1: emphasis like domestic consumption, technological infrastructure, and the energy transition.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting our investors still believe China's investible are
Speaker 1: looking at this point in time as an opportunity to
Speaker 1: yield that allocation to China over time. Is there somewhat
Speaker 1: capitalism or at least their experiment. Is it endogenous more
Speaker 1: so to China, or does it readound out across the
Speaker 1: Pacific Rim and all of Asia. I think we do
Speaker 1: have to remember China has a very particular political and
Speaker 1: economic system, and we see that at play this year.
Speaker 1: When China does decide to pivot and to do reforms
Speaker 1: and regulations, it does so extremely quickly, and that is
Speaker 1: a feature of China. It does lead to these moments
Speaker 1: of volatility. We see these thirty plus percentage corrections every
Speaker 1: three years or so in China. It's a feature of
Speaker 1: investing there. It does come with higher volatility, about double
Speaker 1: the volatility for Chinese equities versus the S and P five,
Speaker 1: But you do get other benefits. You get the potential
Speaker 1: for higher revenue growth and these new sectors of emphasis,
Speaker 1: and you get extremely good diversification benefits. It's working against
Speaker 1: you this year, China's down eleven percent while E m
Speaker 1: X China is up ten percent, but it can also
Speaker 1: work in your favor, like it did last year. So
Speaker 1: net net, we still find it helps to boost risk
Speaker 1: adjusted returns and that's very unique to the China onshore market.
Speaker 1: Real are you concerned it all about the political ramifications
Speaker 1: in the United States toward investing in China. The idea
Speaker 1: here that there is a changed relationship between the two
Speaker 1: nations and that if companies or even investors move into China,
Speaker 1: they could be susceptible to risk at home in terms
Speaker 1: of regulation. So we we do see in surveys in
Speaker 1: the US as well as actually in a lot of
Speaker 1: countries around the world that's increased in unfavorable opinions towards China.
Speaker 1: Um and I think that's honestly a feature of the
Speaker 1: next century, this competition between China and the rest of
Speaker 1: the world. Well, we talk to our investors about is
Speaker 1: that whatever you may think or or not about China
Speaker 1: and it's political system, you can't ignore it. Uh. You
Speaker 1: can't ignore it in terms of the size of its economy,
Speaker 1: the size of its markets, with the second largest equity
Speaker 1: and bond markets, um and you also can't ignore it
Speaker 1: in terms of the risk adjusted benefits it can provide portfolio.
Speaker 1: So maybe an investor decides that investing in China is
Speaker 1: not for them, But I think as a fiduciary, investors
Speaker 1: need to prove that they thought out the benefits that
Speaker 1: they're leaving on the table, and that they've well documented
Speaker 1: the reasons why. Meanwhile, graby Ella, the question of what
Speaker 1: happens in China directly bleeds into the supply chain disruptions
Speaker 1: that we continue to see. How are you sort of
Speaker 1: engaging the activity level there with when we'll start to
Speaker 1: see some of the inflationary pressures from supply chain disruptions
Speaker 1: perhaps start to abate a little bit more So, we've
Speaker 1: clearly seen a deceleration in China in the third quarter
Speaker 1: four point four point nine percent GDP down from seven
Speaker 1: point nine. That deceleration can continue a bit longer in
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter. Part of it is re lated to
Speaker 1: the pandemic. China is the only country that continues with
Speaker 1: this zero tolerance approach to COVID, so localized restrictions are
Speaker 1: still going on in China, and that can affect up
Speaker 1: some production and some consumption of services. But more than that,
Speaker 1: I think we're learning that this deceleration in China is
Speaker 1: a feature, not a bug, of the new China. It
Speaker 1: is about lower quantity growth much more about quality. So structurally,
Speaker 1: we'll continue to see a decline in things like property, infrastructure,
Speaker 1: low end manufacturing, energy intensive industry. The floor on Chinese
Speaker 1: growth is much much lower, and I think that's something
Speaker 1: that investors need to internalize and adjust lower their expectations
Speaker 1: and then we can move on and focus on the opportunities.
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Santos, thank you so much. With JP Morgan this morning,
Speaker 1: let's go down and look at TS vodka. We can
Speaker 1: do that in Texas. We do that with Regina Mayor
Speaker 1: joining us right now, boy out of Energy at KPMG
Speaker 1: in a true force at Rice University in the Baker Center.
Speaker 1: What are you open question? I rarely do this, Regina,
Speaker 1: but you're so good, I'm going to ask it. What
Speaker 1: is your single point of study on a hydrocarbonage in America?
Speaker 1: What's the mystery for you into two thousand twenty two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let me try to boil it down, because I
Speaker 1: think what we're suffering from is a systematic and prolonged
Speaker 1: under investment in these long cycle projects. That is what
Speaker 1: it takes to bring well and gas to the market.
Speaker 1: We see demand continuing to grow the I e. A
Speaker 1: said it will be sion barrels per day uh and
Speaker 1: and others are saying it will be pre pandemic levels.
Speaker 1: We have tightening supply because countries are starting to worry
Speaker 1: about energy security, and countries you can are buying cargoes
Speaker 1: almost at any cost. So that's driving up all of
Speaker 1: that against the backdrop of a expectation of a cold
Speaker 1: winner hotter summers. So we have a crude oil up
Speaker 1: six over the last six months, natural gas over a
Speaker 1: lot six months, and I think it gets worse before
Speaker 1: it gets better. That's what I'm thinking about. Well said.
Speaker 1: The reality here is for the last twenty years on
Speaker 1: a hydrocarbons technology has saved us. Do you and the
Speaker 1: engineers at RICE and KPMG, do you assume there is
Speaker 1: new and improving technology or is this as good as
Speaker 1: it gets as we produce oil. I think technology will
Speaker 1: always continue to surprise us, and I never doubt the
Speaker 1: ingenuity of the industry and in particular the shale players.
Speaker 1: But what we've had is investors driving different kinds of behavior,
Speaker 1: and so your public shale players are sticking to the
Speaker 1: narrative of we're gonna delever the balance sheet. We're gonna
Speaker 1: return strong dividends to our investor base. An OPEC plus,
Speaker 1: which can release more supply, is enjoying this eight plus
Speaker 1: dollar rally to rebuild their government coffers because they've been
Speaker 1: suffering for budget deficits over the last eighteen months during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. So yes, technology can definitely play a role,
Speaker 1: but not in the short squeeze where we're in today, Regina.
Speaker 1: This is definitely a global story, but it's also a
Speaker 1: very US story, in particular Cushing, Oklahoma. I was taking
Speaker 1: a look at a bunch of the stories about how
Speaker 1: much of a supply shortage there is there, how much
Speaker 1: the inventories have gotten depleted, and how that is distorting
Speaker 1: markets dramatically. How much is that driving a lot of
Speaker 1: the rally that we're seeing frankly globally, but driven from
Speaker 1: the w t I crewed. I think w c I
Speaker 1: definitely is playing a key role because everyone's watching what
Speaker 1: the shield players are doing. But I think there's a
Speaker 1: Cushing story in all the global markets. You know, we
Speaker 1: saw in the gas prices spike ten times ten x
Speaker 1: in the UK not not too long ago. There's again
Speaker 1: an energy security story. There were of natural gas supplies
Speaker 1: into the European continent come from Russia. So when we
Speaker 1: look at tight supply choke points like Cushing, like some
Speaker 1: of the systems in the North Sea, even what open
Speaker 1: plus is going to do, those little bubbles create the
Speaker 1: overall geopolitical story and drive a global commodity price that's
Speaker 1: really extraordinarily healthy right now. One is hundred dollar barrel
Speaker 1: of oil. Do say at the end of this year
Speaker 1: early next year, as many people are predicting, I think
Speaker 1: that's where we start to see probably pretty significant demand
Speaker 1: destruction and probably where we start to see more increases
Speaker 1: in US activity, which can be a swing producer and
Speaker 1: we can return to being a swing producer. Aretist seeing
Speaker 1: rip counts that are up almost uh double from a
Speaker 1: year ago. And while the public shail players are sticking
Speaker 1: to the investor narrative, the signs seeing a lot more
Speaker 1: private shail activity uh and and more oil and gas
Speaker 1: development and production coming in the Permian and elsewhere in
Speaker 1: the US. How do you respond to market strategists, to
Speaker 1: Wall Street types with a vector to ninety dollars or
Speaker 1: even a hundred dollars of barrel? How do you respond
Speaker 1: to that? As an academic. Well, I think, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a it's a real economic challenge, right, I mean
Speaker 1: that's what the underlying value of the of the commodity
Speaker 1: is today. And I think that's where we have to
Speaker 1: look at what's going to happen in Glasgow and cop
Speaker 1: How do we accelerate the energy transition, how do we
Speaker 1: address energy security and how do we ensure that the
Speaker 1: market forces keep energy affordable and reliable and a planet
Speaker 1: that's consuming more and more, you know every day as
Speaker 1: we continue to grow with within the oil here, the
Speaker 1: overlay has already been gas. I remember the the the
Speaker 1: Exxon transaction. Everybody had to get into some form of
Speaker 1: net gas and the rest of it as well, after
Speaker 1: an a dark after accidental petroleum. What's going to be
Speaker 1: the synergy that we're gonna see in American oil? What's
Speaker 1: the next combination that just has to be done? Well,
Speaker 1: I think you've seen those combinations already, tom So. I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of consolidation around shale assets in
Speaker 1: the u US, which will help because scale, as they say,
Speaker 1: shale means scale and that will help from a cost perspective.
Speaker 1: So even if oil ultimately comes back down to below forty,
Speaker 1: we can still be profitable with those larger players. And
Speaker 1: you see the international wild companies pivoting more to have
Speaker 1: a more diversified portfolio in the energy transition. Some are
Speaker 1: betting more on carbon capture and storage, others are betting
Speaker 1: more on hydrogen batteries, others are betting more on renewables.
Speaker 1: So I think you'll start to see a bifurcation of
Speaker 1: the traditional energy company strategy with sort of the new
Speaker 1: energy company strategy, and that will help balance the power
Speaker 1: needs that the planet has today. You know, as we
Speaker 1: pivot into the energy transition, Regina and Top twenty six
Speaker 1: will be very interesting to see. Regina. Before we let
Speaker 1: you go, there's been a dilemma for a lot of
Speaker 1: investors that want to move towards more E s G
Speaker 1: type strategies, that want to seem like the good guys
Speaker 1: investing in greener energy, and they have missed out on
Speaker 1: a rally that's been dramatic, And a lot of analysts
Speaker 1: have come on this show and said, you invest in
Speaker 1: oil companies, you'll do great. How do you sort of
Speaker 1: see that developing in terms of investors both getting the
Speaker 1: returns but also being able to sleep at night with
Speaker 1: how they're putting their money to work. Sector took a
Speaker 1: beating last year that I didn't think was necessarily warranted.
Speaker 1: So I think there's definite upside. And for those of
Speaker 1: us that stayed in our only guests uh come out
Speaker 1: of equities were doing really well in our portfolios. But
Speaker 1: I think what I would say is investors need to
Speaker 1: have a balance and don't count out the energy industry.
Speaker 1: We have to be a key part of driving into
Speaker 1: a lower carbon climate. If we're not at the forefront
Speaker 1: of driving that, then I don't think that we are
Speaker 1: able to achieve a two degree C at one point
Speaker 1: five degree C scenario. So I encourage investors to look
Speaker 1: at the bigger picture, don't demonize one side versus the other,
Speaker 1: because we need an all of the above strategy to
Speaker 1: get to the climate goal objectives that we have together.
Speaker 1: So don't just look for what sounds green in the
Speaker 1: short term. Look at a balanced portfolio because fossil fuels
Speaker 1: and hydrocarbons have to be a core part of the
Speaker 1: underlying part of the portfolio for for a substantial period
Speaker 1: of time, and we will reduce the carbon footprint of
Speaker 1: those hydrocarbons. The industry is committed to that. Regina, I've
Speaker 1: a really enjoyed listening to you. Thanks for being with this.
Speaker 1: Regina Matther of KPMG Tony presents you joining us now
Speaker 1: markets trying togist and portfolio manager at Pimco Tony. This
Speaker 1: cyclist moving so quickly, that's the story, the epicenter of
Speaker 1: your round. Look with you in the team right now,
Speaker 1: can you just walk us through how you thinking about
Speaker 1: the world around us at the moment? Well, we we
Speaker 1: when we talk like to talk about the Yiel curve
Speaker 1: and Yelk curve movement speaks this idea of a fast
Speaker 1: moving cycle. Does seem like the economic cycle is moving
Speaker 1: at warp speed. Think about it. We're probably at mid cycle,
Speaker 1: meaning look at the unemployment rate four what is a
Speaker 1: late cycle condition. Of course nonemployment rate that's lower, and
Speaker 1: that lower rate could be achieved the full employment next year.
Speaker 1: So that's a fast moving cycle. In fact, the Federal
Speaker 1: Reserve is projecting that the unemployant rate will be in
Speaker 1: the mid threes by the end of next year. So
Speaker 1: for investors, it's important to be on your toes. It's
Speaker 1: the simple way you're saying, it's important to be active
Speaker 1: with the portfolio management to be thinking more about security
Speaker 1: selection a region, regional selections, etcetera, uh, etcetera. But then
Speaker 1: it is a fast mood cycle. One final note that
Speaker 1: the gield curve again, it's it has flattened recently, and
Speaker 1: that's something that happens later in the cycle because the
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve is raising the short term rate, which pushes
Speaker 1: up if yield relative to the long term rate flattening.
Speaker 1: That's where I want to go to Ston spread this morning.
Speaker 1: Eighteen basis points, Tony. Where it is a two year
Speaker 1: yield that matters to you? Were at zero point four
Speaker 1: four percent? Just you're using your mind, Tony. Where's the
Speaker 1: two year yield a tip point or a critical point?
Speaker 1: For Chris Nzi, Well, the two year relative to other
Speaker 1: yields matters a lot, and it's just that the two
Speaker 1: years will tell us about the two year window. And
Speaker 1: we know that the markets looking at shorter term interest
Speaker 1: rates and forward interest rates like Euro dollar futures is
Speaker 1: projecting at the Federal Serve will increase its policy rates
Speaker 1: sometime next year, perhaps as early as June. The markets
Speaker 1: penning in several interest rate types. But the other these
Speaker 1: two extraordinary things about the two year to ten years spread.
Speaker 1: One is the fact that the spread started to flatten
Speaker 1: earlier in the cycle than we have seen since the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. And then in the last three cycles, the
Speaker 1: last three recessions, the spread between the two and the
Speaker 1: tenure no was is why these three basis points. In
Speaker 1: other words, the markets were patient about the idea of
Speaker 1: federal reserved interest rate hikes. It thought that industrate highs
Speaker 1: were somewhere on the distant horizon, and so long term
Speaker 1: wields had stayed high. Um but now so this this
Speaker 1: is the peak this time was one fifty, so it's
Speaker 1: half the level of the previous cycles. Was to cut
Speaker 1: to the a chase. The second part of the extraordinary
Speaker 1: part of about the yield curve two cent spread is
Speaker 1: that the tenure yield it's projected to be low and
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg of function through new Bloomberg uses f w
Speaker 1: c M it shows forward interest rates, and you see
Speaker 1: the market is saying that there's a benign story to
Speaker 1: evolved unfold over time, that interest rates probably won't get
Speaker 1: up two and a half presented as far out in
Speaker 1: these forewas as I look at the table calling it
Speaker 1: ten years plus well, but tony just to sort of
Speaker 1: tie this all together, then what is the message from
Speaker 1: the yield curve? Is it that the market that the
Speaker 1: economy can't necessarily handle too much tightening from central banks,
Speaker 1: or is it just that the margin is going to
Speaker 1: naturally be narrower because of this ceiling on longer term yields?
Speaker 1: He said, those are probably the conclusions that most would
Speaker 1: draw from it now. But perhaps forward interest rates are wrong.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the market, the consensus and that's embedded in these
Speaker 1: forward rates, is wrong in thinking that the twenty tens
Speaker 1: uh it will be uh repeated in the twenties. But
Speaker 1: the twenty tents is probably the wrong analog for the twenties.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on in pimco's secular outlook. We
Speaker 1: talk about speak to transformations, for example, becoming more digital,
Speaker 1: more inclusive, more green. Those are the three major transformations
Speaker 1: we see. All those things could We're not saying they
Speaker 1: will result in faster growth, and simply doing the math.
Speaker 1: If if economic growth is four percent, as the FED
Speaker 1: projects next year and PIMCO projects as well, then looking
Speaker 1: at the next five years, even if growth is two
Speaker 1: percent of subsequent four we'll still have a rate that's
Speaker 1: about two and a half. So that would be a
Speaker 1: lot better than the twenty tens simply just by that math.
Speaker 1: And so it's possible the growth is faster and these
Speaker 1: these forwards are wrong, and therefore race will go high.
Speaker 1: We're not suggesting that race will go materially higher. In fact,
Speaker 1: we would say we may return to certain old normal conditions,
Speaker 1: but with new neutral characteristics, which is to say that, yes, Lisa,
Speaker 1: that the battles are can't raise its interest rate too
Speaker 1: much because of debt loads and certain other factors. Tony,
Speaker 1: we're out of time. Haven't even got the time to
Speaker 1: plug your book. Gotta let you go, Tony Criscenti, Thanks,
Speaker 1: thank You's gonna catch up as Elwise. This is the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join us live weekdays
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Speaker 1: Tom Keene and this is Bloomberg,