1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A two year old little 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: girl dead shot in her own home, apparently by a 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: self inflicted gun wound. We'll see about that. I'm Nancy Grace. 4 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 5 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and series X one eleven. What 6 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: happened to two year old? Jewels? Take a listen to 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: our friends at k E N S five. We begin 8 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: with breaking news A two year old girl shot in 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: the head in East San Antonio about ten minutes ago. 10 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: We got new information from police. I witness news reporter 11 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: Matt Houston is there on the scene. This is on Dublin, 12 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: not far from Rogers Middle School. Matt, what do we know? Sharon? 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: First responders took that child to a local hospital soon 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: after the shooting in critical condition. That tells us that 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: the child is alive, but in very with very serious injuries, 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: perhaps even life threatening. Police are still trying to figure 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: out what happened. Here behind me, you can see some 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: of their cars, though no flashing lights. We know that 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: the mother called nine one one sometime after the shooting. 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Police do not yet know if the child shot herself 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: or if someone shot her. Are no suspects right now. 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: In fact, it's too early to know if anyone did 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: anything wrong, but obviously another tragedy in a string of 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: violent crimes involving children here in San Antonio in just 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: the last six weeks. Again the child at last report 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: in critical condition in the hospital after a gunshot wound 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: to the head. A two year old girl. A two 28 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: year old little girl raced to the hospital with a 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: critical wound. With me an all star panel to make 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. David Lombardo, Founder 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: Principal Safer US, a consulting group. You can find him 32 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: at gun Testimony. John Dial, high profile lawyer, joining us 33 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: out of Winter Park, Florida. Author of the method Proven 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: Techniques for Winning jury trials. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, 35 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: MD dot com. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant, Newhaven p D. 37 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie joining us former forensic pathologists, medical examiner, 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: detective and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But first 39 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: to special guests. Amanda Henderson Assignment General Assignment reporter News 40 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: for San Antonio and Fox San Antonio. Amanda, thank you 41 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: for being with us. Explained to me about the area 42 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: for two year old Jewels was shot inside our own home. Yes, 43 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: who Again, we were one of the first crews who 44 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: was on the scene that night in the southeast side 45 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: of San Antonio. This is a very large city, so 46 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of diversity in certain areas and 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: the side is no exception to that. So once we 48 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,839 Speaker 1: got there, you know, there were several houses, neighbors were 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: standing outside trying to figure out exactly what was going on. 50 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: And so again it was at nighttime or there's a 51 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: lot of houses there and a lot of people were 52 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: trying to figure out, you know, what had happened at 53 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: that point. Tell me about the neighborhood. So this was 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: a free standing home, not an apartment. From what we 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: could see it appeared to be. There were home fare 56 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: also duplexes there, but not an apartment complex. Christ So 57 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: you get there late at night. What time it was 58 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: somewhere between nine thirty to ten pm when we got 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: on scene, because I do remember we went live for 60 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: our ten o'clock show. Interesting, so it's nine thirty to 61 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night. This was during the school year. 62 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: Now I know that Jeels was just two years old 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: and wouldn't be in school but on a school night 64 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: or weren't not. I don't know why a two year 65 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: old little girl would be up and about instead of 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: in her own crib or bed. So you get there 67 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: and what if anything, did you learn about the wound 68 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: to two year old little deals? So at the very beginning, 69 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: there was not a lot of information. As with every 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: case there, especially when there's a child who thought, there's 71 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot of investigation to figure out all of the 72 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: facts and all of the details. But what we were 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: told that knife with that jewels at the time, I 74 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: need to cover it. We did not know her name, 75 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: but we were told that just a two year old 76 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: little girl had a gunshot mound to the head, and 77 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: at that point she was in critical condition. Guys, take 78 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: a listen to Henry ramus Ka n S five. Half 79 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: of her brain is not working right now. I don't 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: think it's reparable. The family wants someone held accountable. This 81 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: is a baby that's fighting for their life, you know, 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: and you're worried about your freedom, but about this baby. 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: Herrand Also speaking to parents who have weapons inside the home, 84 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: make sure it's not loaded. You know, make sure you 85 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: haven't put up lucked, you know, because in a split second, 86 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: everything can change. Tonight, I'm still waiting on a response 87 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: with an update in this case though, something to note. 88 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: The night of the shooting, officers say that they found 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: a weapon outside the home, and the family tells me 90 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: tonight that Jule's older sister, four years old, saw what happened. 91 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: She's traumatized. They're going to get her help. The family 92 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: just continues to ask for prayers tonight. Is it's not 93 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: known when the little girl will get out of the hospital, 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: not know when she will get out of the hospital. 95 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: At that time, they were holding out hope that she 96 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: would live. To doctor Michel du Pre, former medical examiner 97 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: joining us, Dupre, thank you for being with us. I 98 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: heard at the very beginning that Henry Ramo stated that 99 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: half of her brain, this two year old, beautiful little girl, 100 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: half of her brain was quote not working right now. 101 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: What does that mean? And think that means that basically 102 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: there's brain death. A bullet when it hits the brain, 103 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it's not just the bullet that causes the damage. It's 104 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: something we call a temporary cavity. And what that means 105 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: is it's like a pebble going into a lake. It's 106 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: the pebble that causes damage, but it's also those ripples, 107 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: and those ripples affect the neurons. So if half of 108 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: her brain quote isn't working, and we also hear Remos 109 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: state that I don't think it's reparable. Is it ever reparable? 110 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: Most likely not know. A significant injury to the brain 111 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: like that, it damages and destroys those neurons and they 112 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: will not be reconnected. I know that this little girl 113 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: had a docson named role and love to play with Roly, 114 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: love to play in the backyard. They had a slide 115 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: in the backyard, just two years old. At the time 116 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: of her death, we are talking about jewels, baby jewels 117 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: shot in the head. Now, I know, doctor Dupree, that 118 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: you're saying she was brain dead, and I guess that 119 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: that is vernacular, a street term. I'm sure you have 120 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: a different term for it. But does that necessarily mean 121 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: that she has to die from the injury? Is there 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: a way to keep her alive and hope that she 123 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: can get well? Not really means he wants it's we 124 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: can keep the heart alive, but we really cannot keep 125 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the brain alive. And the heart typically stays alive a 126 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: little bit longer because it has the ability to beat 127 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: on its own. But once the brain becomes dead, that 128 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: person is actually officially dead. So even though the heart 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: still beating, if the brain is dead, the person is 130 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: considered dead and it's a matter of taking them off 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: the life support. Yes, that's correct. I want to speak 132 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: to David Lombardo, founder Principle Safe for USA consulting group, 133 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: and you can find him at gun Testimony dot com 134 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: and on Target Radio AM five sixty. David, thank you 135 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: for being with us. Can you give me the stats 136 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: about children's deaths in homes where there is a gun. 137 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: There's four hundred million guns in the United States, and 138 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: while we do know that there are children who have 139 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: been hurt with us, there's a majority of people appropriately 140 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: store firearms and they keep them away from children. Obviously, 141 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: this is a high poolfile piece where they did not happen. 142 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: Straight out to Lisa Daddy, I former police lieutenant and 143 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: now professor at University New Haven and Forensics Science and 144 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: Criminal Investigations. Lisa, thank you for being with us. From 145 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: what I can tell based on the most recent data, 146 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: children and teams three one hundred and fifty people killed 147 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: a year. That's, according to the CDC, more than cancer. 148 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: That's a lot. That is a lot of child deaths 149 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: from guns. Help me out. It is a lot of it, 150 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: as we know, comes back to unsafe storage, gun owners 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: not properly storing their firearms and just leaving them or 152 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: children knowing where they are. Don't think that if you 153 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: have your gun stored in a safe that your child 154 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: does not know the code or the key to get 155 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: into it. We've seen that happen in the past, and 156 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: you know a lot of it falls back on whomever's 157 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: in the home not properly storing those firearms. Now, we 158 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: also know that part of that awful is going to 159 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: come from being over someone's home and having that happen. 160 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: Unfortunately being outside and they're being a drive by shooting 161 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: or being a victim of gun violence in some other 162 00:09:45,720 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: way other than improper storage of a firearm. Time stories 163 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What happened to this little girl? You know, 164 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm very curious to John Dial, personal injury lawyer, high 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Winter Park. I'm just thinking back 166 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: on my twins at age two, they had really just 167 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: started walking and scooting around. They were very premature, so 168 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: they were slow in their physical development. They had just 169 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: started scooting around and walking at eighteen months, and there's 170 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: no way they could have picked up a gun and 171 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: pointed it and shot themselves in the head at that age. 172 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I know children developed differently, but there's no 173 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: way the twins could have done that at age two. Yeah, 174 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: it's one of the questions. Even if the idea that 175 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: they're picking up at a gun, I'm not sure if 176 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: they could point a turn around or depending on the 177 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: trigger even I'm a pressure to pull the dragger voluntarily. 178 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: So that's that in and of itself, because of the 179 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: age is very suspicious. Well apparently in our cut too, 180 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: you will hear that Henry rainbows at Kan's five Agrees 181 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: listen surrounding a family who is torn and in need 182 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: of support. They're praying for two year old Jules Gonzalez 183 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: and her loved ones, her father Julia. She's showing me 184 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 1: she's strong and fighting, so we're gonna keep fighting for her. 185 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: Last Friday, when officers arrived here on Dublin Street, they 186 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: came across the two year old with a gunshot wound. 187 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: The police preliminary report says the girl reportedly shot herself, 188 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: and investigators say she was there with her mother and 189 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: her mom's boyfriend at the home. Jules father and Anne 190 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: don't believe the little girl could have done it. No, 191 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: there's no way. The doctors is stuff like that. They said, 192 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: we think cases a lot of times, but your daughter 193 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: was too young. She's not strong enough to do that. 194 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: There's no age. Jules is in the ICU and has 195 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: a long road to recovery. To doctor Angela Arnold or now, 196 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: it's like which is joining me out of Atlanta, Doctor Angie. 197 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: That feeling, I will never forget it, the feeling when 198 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: you're at the hospital and you're hoping and you're praying 199 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: for a recovery and then it doesn't happen. Those hours 200 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: are like pure hell. It's like a limbo. It doesn't 201 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: seem like it's day or night outside. It just goes 202 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: on and on and on. And that's what you're hearing 203 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: the father going through at the hospital, well and certainly Nancy. 204 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: During that time, everyone involved is in a state of shock, 205 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: and everyone is also still maintaining hope because no one goes. 206 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: No one in any of these situations goes in expecting 207 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: that the person is going to die. There is always 208 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: hope until the very last minute. Just as you are 209 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: asking doctor Depre what kind of what kind of injury 210 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: occurs to the brain when these kinds of things happen, 211 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, Typically, you know, the regular public doesn't 212 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: understand that because most people haven't worked in an emergency room, 213 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: and they don't see the kind of damage that was 214 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: done to this little girl or anyone after being shot 215 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: in the head. It's it's massive damage that happens. So 216 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: of course the family is out in the waiting room, 217 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: hoping beyond all hope that the doctors can do something 218 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: to save her little life, but they're in shot. Also. Now, 219 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: I know that you're a psychiatrist, but you have to 220 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: be a medical doctor and then specialize in psychiatry. Did 221 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: you ever have to do tour at an emergency room? Oh? Sure, 222 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: I've worked in the emergency room an awful lot. I 223 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: did internal medicine before before I did psychiatry, and so 224 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: I worked in the emergency room. I moonlighted in the 225 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: emergency room, oh my goodness, and trauma emergency rooms, Nancy. So, 226 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: doctor Angie, when they're saying that half of her brain 227 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: was not working. What does that actually, I mean, what's 228 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: her what's her face blown off? As to your old 229 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: little girl, Probably the half of her brain wasn't there. 230 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: And I've seen I've seen that in the trauma rooms 231 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: where I've done. It's horrific, Nancy, It's absolutely horrific. And 232 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: so they said, I'm sure they said that the family 233 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: half of her brain isn't working, because you're not going 234 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: to go out in the waiting room and tell the family, oh, 235 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: my god, half of her brain is blown off. I mean, Nancy, 236 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: I've been in the emergency room where there were a 237 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: lot of farming accidents where I worked, and someone had 238 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: their head mash and some sort of farming tool, okay, 239 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: and the family still thought that man was going to live. 240 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: But we were watching his brain ooze out of the 241 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: back of his head. They thought he was going to live. 242 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: So you can't. Yeah, you have to when you're in 243 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: the emergency room, Nancy. You have to save people from 244 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: from the reality of what's really going on in there 245 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: with their loved one one who's been injured so horribly. 246 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: And to you, Doctor Michelle Dupree, a former pathologists medical 247 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: examiner and detective doctor Dupree. It's kind of like the 248 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: family suspends their disbelief, like when you go into a movie, 249 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: you get totally sucked in. You're not looking at what's 250 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: happening around you, and everything is believable and possible. The 251 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: family goes the emergency room and they really believe that 252 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: this child can be saved. They're out there hoping, they're praying. 253 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: They think the baby can be saved, but she's been 254 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: shot in the head. Exactly, Nancy. I mean, you don't 255 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: want to believe it, and they're in shocky what you 256 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: say to them, they're not even going to remember or 257 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: understand at that point in time. And it's important for 258 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: us to recognize some folks are in shock like that 259 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: because they don't remember and they don't want to believe it, 260 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: and you have to find a gentle way to help 261 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: them come to that realization. And you know Lisa Daddy, 262 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: a former police lieutenant Haven and now professor Lisa. Another 263 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: thing that as to that adds to the pain. I 264 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: remember when I learned my fiance was had been killed, 265 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: and I thought it must have been in a car crash. 266 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: But then you have a whole other layer when I 267 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: found out he was murdered. In this case, it's horrible 268 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: enough for a two year old little girl to die, 269 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: and then you've got the whole another layer that she 270 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: was shot in the head with a gun and in 271 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: her own home. You just can't fathom that. Right, It 272 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: comes back to who would ever hurt a child? And 273 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: unfortunately we know the answer to that, and more times 274 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: than not, it just, you know, everybody in the community 275 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: in the state was hoping that it was a true accident, 276 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: but then it's like, well, how is it an accident 277 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: with a two year old? You know, how does that happen? Guys, 278 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Sarah for Ganey at 279 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: Kids five. The toddler is shot in the head earlier 280 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: this month has died. Two year old Jules Gonzalez was 281 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: rushed to the hospital on February eighteenth after being shot 282 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: in the head, and according to police at the time, 283 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: the implication was that she pulled the trigger after finding 284 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: a gun in her home. Police are investigating the case 285 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: and so far nor arrests now. The family did start 286 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: a go fund Me page for her funeral expenses, saying 287 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: she gained her angel wings on Saturday, she was able 288 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: to become an organ donor. Little Jules was one month 289 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: away from turning three to David Lombardo, founder and principals 290 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: Safe for USA consulting group, anchor of the National Shooting 291 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: Sports Foundation Shot Show, David, again, thank you for being 292 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: with us. What can you tell me about trigger pull? 293 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: On again? Like this? Sure? The firing that was in 294 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: users at Block thirty five is say forty caliber, and 295 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: Block is somewhat unique in the trigger pull. It's without 296 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: getting two technical it's a single action, two stage trigger. 297 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: You're talking about, how difficult would it Peter pull? The 298 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: gun itself fully loaded, which one would presumer probably was, 299 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: is about little over two pounds and the trigger pull 300 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: itself is on the glock about five and a half pounds, 301 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: which is not really a lot. David Lombardo, When you 302 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: say five and a half pounds pull, did you explain 303 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: to our non gun aficionados what you mean by that. 304 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: I have compared it to a jury with juries like 305 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: m I pick up a small can of Jiff peanut butter. 306 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: I think jar versus the biggest one. Obviously one's heavier 307 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: than the other. How do you use that imagery? To 308 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: explain pull on a gun, Well, I think you sort 309 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: of hit the nail on the head. A jar of 310 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: peanut butter is probably a few pounds anyway. So there's 311 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: a lot of things that are in that sort of 312 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: weight category, and that would be one of them. It's 313 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: literally when we say trigger pools five and a half pounds, 314 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: it's the same thing as if you were lifting a 315 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: five and a half pound weight with your finger. That 316 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: is literally what it would be like. And that's not 317 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: a lot. But when you're talking about a two year 318 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: old who may only weigh twenty five pounds or thirty pounds, 319 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: five and a half pounds may be substantially more difficult 320 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: for her to pull. It's not like an adult pulling it. 321 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: My daughter is fourteen and I still have to open 322 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: bottle of water for her sometimes. Well you ask, I 323 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: think you'll find that five and a half pound trigger pool. 324 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: We train kids in the youth camp and obviously they're 325 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: older than that, but it's not really a problem to 326 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: pull that trigger. Five and a half pounds is not 327 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: that much if you're holding the gun. Okay, I trust you. 328 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: I believe you. Guys. Hikos into our cut five Lee 329 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: Waldminnik Sat Julio Gonzalez saw his two year old daughter, 330 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: Jules Gonzalez, for the last time at the hospital last night, 331 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: and Julio tells me he wants answers about how his 332 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: daughter was shot. According to San Antonio police, the gun 333 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: shot was self inflicted, but Julio doesn't know how she 334 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: would have gotten a gun has happened at a duplex 335 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: on Dublin Avenue near Pickwell Drive on the city's southeast 336 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: side on February eighteenth, just before eight pm that night. 337 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: Police say Jules's mom and mom's boyfriend were home at 338 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: the time of the shooting. The mom was fully cooperating, 339 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: but the boyfriend left the home before the police got there. 340 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: Jules was taken by EMS to University Hospital in critical condition. 341 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: Julio tells me doctors did everything they could to save 342 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: her over this past week. Now tonight, we know this 343 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: investigation is still ongoing by police. No arrests have been 344 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: made in connection with this shooting. But of course Amanda 345 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: Henderson joining me so guests from News Forcing Antonio and 346 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: Foxing Antonio. Amanda, I wouldn't be surprised if charges were 347 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: not leveled against the mom or the boyfriend for having 348 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: a gun in the home where the child could get 349 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: to it. Do we know if the gun was stored 350 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: anywhere or where the gun was typically kept? Do know 351 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: based on a new evidence that have come to light 352 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: that are eventually the mother who ended up buying the gun? 353 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: You know, obviously there'd have been a lot of developments 354 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: since to your old little tools first shop and tragically 355 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 1: passed away. But right now we don't know if it 356 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: was stored somewhere or if it was just not in 357 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: the open. I want to circle back to where the 358 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: gun should have been, John Deal, what do we know? 359 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: Where should the gun have been? Well, the gun should 360 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: have been obviously out of where the childhood reach it, 361 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: should be unloaded, should be an safe or something else. 362 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: Sounds like none of those sick place. So it's it's 363 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 1: absolutely reckless. I'm the part of you know, the parents 364 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: or whoever is in the room there with for this 365 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: even to be accessible to the child. So when you 366 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: should when he should have been planning play school or 367 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: a play date, or taking the child to a swimming 368 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: pool or a playground, they are now stuck planning a funeral. 369 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: Take a list of our cut six our friends Sarah 370 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: Duran kids are gathering. No father wants to host for 371 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: their child, but for Julio Gonzales to the very best, 372 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: it's the only way he can help bury his two 373 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: year old daughter, Jewels, specifically going to her headstone, her 374 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: funeral expenses a plate sale to pay for his daughter's 375 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: burial services, creation of an organization, and her memory and 376 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: counseling for his other daughter, Julia. He says the four 377 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: year old saw what happened to her younger sister last month. 378 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: On February eighteen, Jewels was found by San Antonio police 379 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: with a and shot wound to the head. The preliminary 380 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: report states the girl reportedly shot herself. She ended up 381 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: dying more than a week after the incident. I just 382 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: gotta stay strong and this is hard man. After the shooting, 383 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: her father had a hard time believing Jules did it. 384 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: His belief hasn't changed. My daughter didn't shoot herself. Investigators 385 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: say her mother and the mom's boyfriend were home at 386 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,239 Speaker 1: the time. We followed up with police today and they 387 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: said the investigation is ongoing. The medical examiner also told 388 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: us the toddler's cause of death this pending. You know, 389 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: I find that very interesting, you know. To you, Doctor 390 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: Michelle Duprie, could you explain what is a trajectory path 391 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: of a bullet? Yes, Nancy, that's basically the line of 392 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: the line that the bullet follows as it hits the target. 393 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: And we can tell so much by that. One of 394 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: the things that we look at, one of the most 395 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: important things we look at is that trajectory, and that 396 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: helps us establish whether what we're hearing, who shot, or 397 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: where they were standing, or that kind of thing. It 398 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: helps us tell it that's true or not it. For instance, 399 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm a good way to show this to a jury 400 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: is to get styrofoam, a styrofoam ball and then enter 401 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: anything like an arrow, a piece of plastic, a drinking 402 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: straw where the bullet goes in, and have it come 403 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: out where the bullet would come out of the head 404 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: or the body exactly. Trajectory path is the path a 405 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: bullet or a weapon takes, typically bullet as it passes 406 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: through the human body. For instance, if it was the 407 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: head we're talking about, you could say the trajectory path 408 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: was right to left, up to down, just above the 409 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: right ear coming out of the lower jaw. This would 410 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: suggest the gun was above the eye going down, which 411 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: typically would not be a suicide. It's hard to get 412 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: a damn word trajectory on a suicide. It's very significant 413 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: what the trajectory path shows. Then there is a sudden 414 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: twist in the case. Take a listen to our cut nine, 415 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: our friends and needs for tonight, all eyes are on 416 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: the death of a San Antonio toddler. A new twist 417 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: shows two year old Jules Gonzales did not shoot herself 418 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: as we were initially told. On Friday, her mother, thirty 419 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: five year old Jessica Kndu, was arrested and charged with 420 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: endangering a child in connection with Jules's death. In Condu's affidavit, 421 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: it says the toddler's autopsy revealed she could not have 422 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: shown herself due to the gunshot being from a distance 423 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: and not close proximity. Even though this was determined one 424 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: day after Jules's death, we just learned of this new information, 425 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: so we went right to SAPD to find out why 426 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: they tell us quote. Initially, it was reported to police 427 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: that the child shot herself. Through the course of the investigation, 428 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: investigators gathered additional evidence, including the medical examiner's report, not 429 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: determined the child had not shot herself with enough probable cause, 430 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: they were able to issue a warrant for child endangerment. 431 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: Child endangerment. So if the child didn't shoot herself and 432 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: the only people in the home are the mother and 433 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: the boyfriend, who I might remind everyone picked up and 434 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: left before EMPs can even get there to get jewels, 435 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: then it had to be one of those two. And 436 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: that's all shown from the trajectory path alone. That's like 437 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: someone shooting themselves in the back and someone being shot 438 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: in the back and then claiming it was suicide. Impossible, 439 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: can't happen. And here this trajectory path shows Amanda Henderson 440 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: joining us from news for and Fox San Antonio that 441 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: this little girl did not shoot herself. What can you 442 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: tell me about the findings of the autopsy, Amanda Henderson. So, 443 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: when we actually got to the Medical Examiner's office last 444 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: week when all this all came out, they said the 445 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: chase is still open. We actually found out about the 446 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: autopsy through the assid David, through Camp Choose out of David. 447 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: She was arrested previous Friday, but not the one that 448 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: just passed, but the one prior to that. But choose charger. 449 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: As you just heard with child Dangervid and her boyfriend 450 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: a couple months prior had been arrested on criminal charges 451 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: related to allegations that a gund that was used to 452 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: kill the little girls. But that is the extense of 453 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: the charges right now. Okay, hold on, what did you 454 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: say the boyfriend? What was the boyfriend's charge? Yes, so 455 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Joshua Ramirez, he was charged with criminal charges 456 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: related to allegations that a gun he possessed was used 457 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: to kill the little girl. So I'm gathering Amanda Henderson 458 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: is the boyfriend's gun, but the boyfriend is not charged 459 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: with sheeting the little girl right as of now, that's correct. 460 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: So let me understand this John Deal, high profile lawyer 461 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: joining me out of winter Park. John Deal, You've got 462 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: two adults in the home, one being the mother, the 463 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: person you expect to protect you the most, now charged 464 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: in the shooting depth of her child. Now I'm hearing 465 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: an endangerment charge, but we know the child didn't shoot herself. 466 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: Deal the endangerment charge obviously, just the gun even going off, 467 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: which it clearly did and being in the house would 468 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: would be enough for child endangerment. The issue becomes if 469 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: it's a homicide, it goes back to the trajectory issue 470 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: that you were talking about. If it's from further away 471 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: on a straighter path, that would indicate that if it's 472 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: from down to up, then they could argue, I was 473 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: she accidentally dropped it potentially, But I would I would 474 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: think the actual trajectory and the actual distance away is 475 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: what the police if to continue to look at, because 476 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: I believe this isn't the extend the charges on this 477 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: one man, I hope not. Guys speaking of the distance, 478 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut eight our friens at 479 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: Kin's five new details. Tonight, a San Antonio woman arrested 480 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: after her two year old daughter died from a gun shot. 481 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: Jessica Guntu is charged with endangering a child. Police say 482 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: Gantu reported that her child, Jules Gonzalez, shot herself in February. 483 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: The two year old died at the hospital days later, 484 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: but now the medical examiner says the child could not 485 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: have shot herself. The gun was shot from a distance 486 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: and not close proximity, according to police wreckers. Kantu says 487 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: the gun belonged to her boyfriend, Joshua Ramidez. Police say 488 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: he fled the scene before officers arrived. Prime Stories with 489 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Okay, explain to me, Lisa, Daddy, O, how 490 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: we know this little girl was not shot at close range? Oh, 491 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna look at the evidence, Nancy. You're gonna look 492 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: at the autopsy, the injuries, possibly the clothing of the 493 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: child's that she was wearing, the betting her hands, and 494 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: you're looking for things such as gunshot residue. You're looking 495 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: whether or not there's what we call blowback. If there's 496 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: a close contact wound, parts of tissue, bone, blood is 497 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: going to blow back onto the hand that was used. 498 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: It's going to blow back onto an into the firearm, 499 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: the barrel of the firearm. And you're gonna be looking 500 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: at all that type of evidence to determine whether or 501 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: not this was actually a suicide, an accidental shooting, or 502 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: a homicide. To David Lombardo joining me from say for 503 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: USA Consulting Group, David, it's my understanding to determine if 504 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound a GSW is close range, first you 505 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: would look for stippling on the skin. In other words, 506 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: was it a contact wound? If the gun is touching 507 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: the skin, there will be a burning effect around this 508 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: on the skin around the barrel, from the heat the 509 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: shot and from the gun. You would look for gunshot 510 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: residue on the victim's hand. Gunshot residue typically does not 511 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: extend past thirty six inches. So if there is not 512 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: gunshot residue on the victim's hand, you would assume and 513 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: blowback the way Lisa Daddy had just explained, you would 514 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: assume that the victim did not accidentally or intentionally shoot themselves. Now, 515 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: what else should we look for to David Lombardo, Well, 516 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: as your gunshot residue can be as far as five feet. 517 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: But you're right, the temperature of a shot averages in 518 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: the thousands of degrees, So you're going to look, they'll 519 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: be burning. If the closer it is, the more it 520 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: would deform the skin from the burn. The residue itself 521 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: is made up of copper and brass and nickel, all 522 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: these medals that vaporize when you fire the gun, and 523 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 1: so they literally get sprayed. The further away the muzzle 524 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: of the gun, the wire, the diameter that you would 525 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: see on the face. So what we can tell is this, 526 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: we can't say for sure if the child or someone 527 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: committed suicide by holding a gun up to themselves, because 528 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: anyone could hold it up close. But we can say 529 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: that they couldn't have done it if you don't have residue, 530 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: because if you have residue, it could be as far 531 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: as five feet away. That means nobody could reach that far. Yeah. 532 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut seven, our friend Henry 533 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: Ramos kids five. This Affidavid right here reveals when the 534 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: suspects showed up here and agree to talk to police, 535 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: though we've learned tonight and investigators say that he lied 536 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: to them. We're talking about Christopher Joshua Ramidez. Investigators say 537 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: that it was his gun that killed Juels, and during 538 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: the investigation, police say that the little girl shot herself. 539 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: According to the Affidavid, officers found a duffel back with 540 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: a gun inside, and Jule's mother says her boyfriend had 541 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: packed it at their home. How does the weapon end 542 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: up in a duffel bag because we remember a MTS 543 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: and cops kid, they're almost immediately and the gun's already 544 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: in a duffel bag. I mean that tells me a lot, 545 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: John deal if it's an accidental shooting, Why would you 546 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: put the gun in a duffel bag before cops could 547 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: even get there. Exactly the consciousness of guilt type of thing. Right, 548 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: if it's an accidental shooting, that's not how loving people react. 549 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: Let's put the gun in him bag. And you know 550 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: what that reminds me of. It reminds me of taught 551 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: mom Casey Anthony and one of her many stories about 552 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: what happened to Kelly, two year old Kelly. There were 553 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: a lot of different stories, like the fake babysitter took her, 554 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: she was at the beach, yeah, Ny, the nanny was 555 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: my client. Oh yeah, that's yeah, yeah, How could I 556 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: forget that? And then there was the my father, George 557 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: Anthony fished her out of the swimming pool where she 558 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: accidentally drowned, and then he put her in a trash 559 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: bag and threw her body in the woods. No, George 560 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: Anthony would never have fished this baby out of the pool, 561 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 1: this baby he loved more than anything in the world, 562 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: put her in a trash bag and throw her in 563 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: the woods. No more than it's an accidental shooting, nothing 564 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: nefarious has taken place. And you think to hide the 565 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: gun and a duffle bag before cops can get there. Now, 566 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut ten Amanda Henderson's four 567 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: there's arrest. Alfa David also says she and her four 568 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: year old daughter were in another room when she heard 569 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: a loud pump. Child abuse prevention advocate Carrie will Coxon 570 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: says the adults there that night both gone through and 571 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: her boyfriend Joshua Ramirez, had a responsibility to protect jewels. 572 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: A caregiver has a responsibility, whether you're committing the actual 573 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: act or you're aware of what's happening, you have a 574 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: duty to protect. You have a duty to act. This 575 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: was preventable. That's a part of this that is so tragic. 576 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: And with me special guests Amanda Henderson from News for 577 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: sant Antonio and Fox sant Antonio. Amanda, let me understand. 578 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: So the trajectory path on the gun shot on this 579 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: little girl makes it clear that this was not a suicide, 580 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: an axidental shooting where the little girl shot herself. He 581 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: got a five and a half pull trigger pool on 582 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: the gun, and before the costs can get there, somebody 583 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: hides the boyfriend's gun, the weapon and a duffel bag. 584 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: Is that right? That's definitely what we just heard. Again, 585 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: we don't know anything before that situation, if the gun 586 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: had been properly stored or if it was just out 587 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: in the open. But again, the night that we were there, 588 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: there were so few details that were coming out. All 589 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: we knew at the time was that the little girl 590 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: had a gunshot wound. And then you know about about 591 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: a week later or so when you know she tragically 592 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: passed from that gunshot wound. And then just this past 593 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: week is when we learned that, in fact, the Medical 594 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: Examiner's office concluded one day after her dusk that she 595 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: could not have shot herself. The trajectory past shows that 596 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: she couldn't have shot herself, and the gunshot was from 597 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: a distance, which means this little girl's arm is what 598 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: three f two feet long. There's no way that she 599 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: could have shot herself and into m a distance unless 600 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,439 Speaker 1: she jerry rigged it with a rope and pulled the rope. 601 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, that's total bs. Somebody in at home 602 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: shot this little girl. Amanda Henderson, the boyfriend, what is 603 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: he charged with? So about a month or so after 604 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: the original shooting took place, however, the gunshot came out. 605 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: He was actually picked up on criminal charges that were 606 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: related to allegation that a gun he invested with you 607 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: to kill Jewels. So that's his current charge is that 608 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: the gun used to kill two year old Jewels was 609 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: possessed by him. Correct. The mother is currently charged, Jessica 610 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: Knto with what she is charged with a child endangerment 611 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: or to be formal in endangering a child in the 612 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: dust of Jewels. Okay, this is very probative to me. 613 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: The mother, John Deal, the mother is the one charged 614 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: with endangerment, ending and death of a child, not the 615 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: boyfriend that left the saying the mother the mother, and 616 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: from that I am deducing the mother shot her own 617 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: two year old child at a distance. I think it 618 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: would tend to show that. I mean, it's if it's 619 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: one of the two of them, if it's somebody pulled 620 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: the actual trigger, it's one of the two of them. 621 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: The charges against her endangerment causing the death, and it 622 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: seems like him possession of a firearm, probably by a 623 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: convicted salent possibly, But the question is going to be 624 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: now between the two of them, which version of events 625 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: comes out in the criminal plasa to doctor Angela Arnold 626 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta. Number one. We now 627 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: understand the four year old sister, the four year old 628 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: sister witnessed the death of her two year old little 629 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: sister number one, and we also are learning that Jules 630 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: was autistic and had not learned to talk yet. How 631 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: do you factor that into this scenario, doctor, Well, first 632 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: of all, the child that witnessed us. First of all, 633 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: it appears to me that she could be a witness, 634 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: couldn't she couldn't she tell people who shot the kid? Yes? 635 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: But second of all, the trauma that that little girl 636 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: has gone through, because I imagine if her sister is autistic, 637 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: which is which is what has come out of this, 638 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: and she was nonverbal at this time, her little four 639 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: year old sister was probably very protective of her and 640 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 1: probably spoke for her often, okay, and she and they 641 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: probably had a little language between them that they used. 642 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: But the trauma that the four year old is going 643 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: to have to bear and live with in her four 644 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: year old mind, there are things that are going to 645 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: stop in her development because of what she had seen 646 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: in this Well I know this somebody is lying because 647 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: now we're learning the four year old saw the shooting 648 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: of her two year old sister, and the mother says 649 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: that she and the four year old were in another 650 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: room when they both heard a quote loud pop and 651 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not the four year old lying. 652 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story Sunning Off, 653 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,