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Speaker 1: or at Pushkin dot Fm. Yes, it is daunting, and
Speaker 1: I think it should be. If you're not daunted, you
Speaker 1: know something is very wrong with you and you're probably
Speaker 1: not right for this job. That's Sherylyn Eiffel. I'm the
Speaker 1: President and Director Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund
Speaker 1: until midnight tonight. Then I will be stepping down. I
Speaker 1: caught up with Eiffel on the last day of her
Speaker 1: nearly decade long tenure leading the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
Speaker 1: The LDF has handled many of the biggest civil rights
Speaker 1: cases in the country, such as Brown versus the Board
Speaker 1: of Education. We also were the lawyers who represented Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King in Birmingham, and we represented the Selma Marchers,
Speaker 1: and we represented the Freedom Writers, and you know, we
Speaker 1: represented Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Improvement Association, and we
Speaker 1: represented Muhammad Ali and getting his boxing license back. So
Speaker 1: you know, all the things you think of the lawyers
Speaker 1: by and large were LDF. When if All started out
Speaker 1: at LDF, she was daunted by the work ahead of her.
Speaker 1: I joined LDF at nineteen eighty eight, and you must remember, Anita,
Speaker 1: that I was a young lawyer at LDF. So when
Speaker 1: you start in that position, you are gazing up at
Speaker 1: the founders and the leaders of the organization with all
Speaker 1: in reverence. And I've never lost that. Leading today's American
Speaker 1: civil rights movement is a massive job. Eiffel personally reviews
Speaker 1: every brief that has filed to the federal and Supreme courts.
Speaker 1: She also writes her own op eds and manages everything
Speaker 1: from fundraising to operations, and like each of Eiffel's predecessors,
Speaker 1: she has left her mark. I felt very strongly that
Speaker 1: in order to be relevant in civil rights work, you
Speaker 1: can't just do your cases, you know, your litigation. You
Speaker 1: have to be able to respond to what is moving
Speaker 1: people's heart and soul in the moment. One of Eiffel's
Speaker 1: legacies at the Legal Defense Fund is her creation of
Speaker 1: a rapid response team. Through it, she has helped shape
Speaker 1: the larger narrative about race in this country. And I
Speaker 1: have been quite determined to do that I'm Anita Hill.
Speaker 1: This is Getting Even, my podcast about equality and what
Speaker 1: it takes to get there. On Getting Even, I speak
Speaker 1: with people who are improving our imperfect world, people who
Speaker 1: took risks and broke the rules. In this episode, CHERYLN.
Speaker 1: Eifel reflects on her work at the NAACP Legal Defense
Speaker 1: Fund and how it fits into our world today. What
Speaker 1: are some of the cases and the initiatives that are
Speaker 1: at the front of your mind on your last day
Speaker 1: and with LDF, Well, I think this so called anti
Speaker 1: critical race theory movement, which is really an anti truth movement.
Speaker 1: This whole effort to memory hold the truth about the
Speaker 1: history of racism, to remove this from our educational system,
Speaker 1: to try and change our perception of history, to try
Speaker 1: to bury history, is something that we could not have
Speaker 1: anticipated three years ago, five years ago. But here it is,
Speaker 1: and it's real and it's dangerous. We're already in a
Speaker 1: number of states participating with local grassroots groups testifying ourselves
Speaker 1: in opposition to some of these bills. There will be
Speaker 1: litigation in some of these places. LDF has worked forever
Speaker 1: on issues of police violence against on armed African Americans,
Speaker 1: and obviously voting rights are key, But you know, LDF
Speaker 1: has a whole docket of cases around natural hair discrimination,
Speaker 1: which people that somehow can't believe, but it's true. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of our hair discrimination cases, for example, really
Speaker 1: began with young people and litigating those cases of young
Speaker 1: people who were suspended or who were told they couldn't
Speaker 1: walk in graduation because they had lots. You know, we
Speaker 1: released a report written by one of our terrific young
Speaker 1: attorneys a few years ago that just focused on the
Speaker 1: way in which discipline is meted out to black girls
Speaker 1: in public schools in Baltimore City, and it was very
Speaker 1: important to us to explore this issue of how black
Speaker 1: girls bodies are used to suggest that they violate dress codes,
Speaker 1: the way in which black girls are kind of not
Speaker 1: allowed to be girls, the way in which the license
Speaker 1: that's taken to search black girls again is a denial
Speaker 1: of their dignity and their privacy, the presumptions that are
Speaker 1: made about black girls and their sophistication. A lot of
Speaker 1: our approach to our work is getting in there and
Speaker 1: understanding the way in which certain kinds of infractions particularly
Speaker 1: are experienced. Is just really important to put together a
Speaker 1: more complex picture of what the denial of civil rights
Speaker 1: looks like for different members of our community. That's really
Speaker 1: exciting work that I think maybe people don't necessarily even
Speaker 1: know is going on. I agree, you're doing so much.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can't know every thing. You know, it's so true.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're familiar with the Los Angeles bus system,
Speaker 1: that was an LDF case that we sue to make
Speaker 1: sure that the bus routes in Los Angeles would reach
Speaker 1: black and brown communities in the city. And so I'm
Speaker 1: sure people get on the buses every day and they
Speaker 1: don't think, oh, this is the result of a civil
Speaker 1: rights suit by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. But it
Speaker 1: is the work that we've done in the employment discrimination area.
Speaker 1: You know. I talk about a case we won in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one called Phillips versus Martin Marietta, an LDF
Speaker 1: case brought on behalf of a white woman who was
Speaker 1: challenging the rule at Martin Marietta that they did not
Speaker 1: hire women who had preschool aged children. That was just
Speaker 1: the rule of the firm, you know. LDF we argued
Speaker 1: that case in the Supreme Court in one So you know,
Speaker 1: I say all the time to women in corporate America.
Speaker 1: You know, if you've got your job and you have
Speaker 1: young children, that was LDF. You have us to think, right, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: There was no blueprint fifty years ago, certainly not when
Speaker 1: d was established. I think civil rights work today is
Speaker 1: very different in terms of the amount of partners that
Speaker 1: you have that are collaborating with you. All of the
Speaker 1: civil rights community can't be represented in one organization, that's right.
Speaker 1: Tell me about your collaboration if you will, with the
Speaker 1: Leadership Conference of Civil Rights. Oh yeah, it's an ecosystem
Speaker 1: that has to be strong, and the Leadership Conference is
Speaker 1: essential to the ecosystem because it brings us all together
Speaker 1: and it's really important. I say this all the time.
Speaker 1: LDF is largely a litigating organization and a policy organization,
Speaker 1: but we also have organizers on our staff. But you know,
Speaker 1: we're not a membership organization. You know, people need people
Speaker 1: to turn out at a march. That's going to be
Speaker 1: the National Action networker people who have members or affiliates.
Speaker 1: That's not us. But every part of the ecosystem has
Speaker 1: a role to play. One of the things we were
Speaker 1: so clear about when Trump was elected, we actually had
Speaker 1: meetings about it was that we were all going to
Speaker 1: stand shoulder to shoulder because we genuinely believed. I think
Speaker 1: maybe we underestimated the brutality of Trump's tactics, but we
Speaker 1: believe that we're going to try to drive wedges between
Speaker 1: the black and Latino community around issues like immigration or
Speaker 1: the black and LGBTQ community. And so one of the
Speaker 1: things we were very explicitly clear about was that there
Speaker 1: would be no daylight between us on any of the
Speaker 1: issues that we worked on, and that proved to be
Speaker 1: an incredible strength, and we all understood we had to
Speaker 1: show up for one another quickly. When Tree of Life happened,
Speaker 1: as soon as I heard it, my text went out
Speaker 1: to Jonathan Greenblat the relationship between John Yang and I,
Speaker 1: the head of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, and our very
Speaker 1: explicit modeling of ally ship between the black and Asian
Speaker 1: American community over the last year and a half as
Speaker 1: hate crimes have risen exponentially against the Asian American community.
Speaker 1: All of that is intentional because we understand that our
Speaker 1: work and our survival is dependent on our to stand
Speaker 1: strong and to stand shoulder to shoulder in the work.
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned a number of women who are
Speaker 1: now heading these organizations, which historically wasn't the case. Do
Speaker 1: you think that that sort of intersectional influence that is
Speaker 1: coming in with the diverse leadership will change the work
Speaker 1: of LDF in the future or will inform the work
Speaker 1: of LDF in the future. You know, I think every
Speaker 1: Director Council brings their secret sauce to the table, whatever
Speaker 1: that might be, that is very much a product of
Speaker 1: their experience, and I borrowed from every Director council. Nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight, I was hired by Julius Chambers, one of
Speaker 1: the most extraordinary, consequential and courageous civil rights lawyers as
Speaker 1: country has ever known, and who most people don't know.
Speaker 1: He litigated the Swan versus Mechleberg case, Landmark school disegregation
Speaker 1: case in one eighteen month period. He had his car,
Speaker 1: his office, and his house fire, and Julius always just
Speaker 1: kept it moving. Elaine Jones really built our profile in
Speaker 1: DC right and on Capitol Hill. My communication efforts and
Speaker 1: understanding the importance of being a voice and a face
Speaker 1: in shaping the narrative was very much taken from Thirgood.
Speaker 1: He had a way about him that made people want
Speaker 1: to listen to him that was accessible. They could understand
Speaker 1: the average person could understand what he was talking about
Speaker 1: when he was talking about the cases that he was litigating.
Speaker 1: That was important to me to be able to convey that.
Speaker 1: Jack Greenberg was incredibly entrepreneurial and expanded the organization in
Speaker 1: all kinds of ways. He would say, let's file five
Speaker 1: hundred cases that would challenge, you know, discrimination in various
Speaker 1: textile plants across the South. I mean, he was just
Speaker 1: extremely entrepreneurial and moved LDF in a lot of different
Speaker 1: directions that still exist today. So everybody has their secret
Speaker 1: sauce they bring to the table. I came to this
Speaker 1: space from spending many years having left New York and
Speaker 1: moving to Baltimore and having a real strong sense of
Speaker 1: what I thought was important about the experience of black
Speaker 1: people in what I kind of call second tier cities,
Speaker 1: you know, not New York or San Francisco or Chicago,
Speaker 1: but Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit. I got really interested in that,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the work on our docket reflects that.
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in rapid response, and so I
Speaker 1: built a rapid response capacity in the organization because I
Speaker 1: felt very strongly that in order to be relevant in
Speaker 1: civil rights work, you know, you can't just do your cases,
Speaker 1: you know, your litigation, you have to be able to
Speaker 1: respond to what is moving people's heart and soul in
Speaker 1: the moment. If Mike Brown is lying on that street
Speaker 1: as he was that Saturday, when I saw on Twitter
Speaker 1: this kind of growing concern about this young man who
Speaker 1: had been shot by an officer and that his body
Speaker 1: was still in the street, I started tracking that and
Speaker 1: by Sunday night I had assembled my team on the
Speaker 1: phone to say, something's happening, you know, and we need
Speaker 1: to understand what it is. And the first thing we
Speaker 1: did was send one of our organizers down because we
Speaker 1: understood this wasn't a matter of litigation per se. There
Speaker 1: was something else that was happening around this issue of
Speaker 1: police violence. So that very much comes out of my
Speaker 1: own experience and thinking about how to approach these issues
Speaker 1: and how the community expects people who hold themselves in
Speaker 1: the position of being civil rights leaders to be responsive
Speaker 1: to the things that they care about. After the break,
Speaker 1: Eiffel and I talk about what lies ahead, where progress
Speaker 1: stalls and where we can place our hope. You're listening
Speaker 1: to getting even I'm Anita Hill. I'm speaking with Sherylyn Eiffel,
Speaker 1: President and Director Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
Speaker 1: Eifel and I spoke on her last day on the job.
Speaker 1: We look toward the future civil rights and what type
Speaker 1: of leadership we need. I want to talk about leadership
Speaker 1: in Washington, DC and it specifically. I want to start
Speaker 1: with the courts. We now have a nominee, Judge Jackson
Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court. Tell me how you think that
Speaker 1: will play out in the next few weeks. Well, I
Speaker 1: think she'll be confirmed. I don't have any doubt about that.
Speaker 1: But I do think that there will be some bad
Speaker 1: behavior by members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who the person is. Cason point is Katangi
Speaker 1: Brown Jackson, who by all measures has a very moderate record.
Speaker 1: This is not a civil rights lawyer, as a moderate record,
Speaker 1: has more judicial experience heading into the Supreme Court than
Speaker 1: Chief Justice Roberts did heading into the Supreme Court. And
Speaker 1: yet you know already you heard Senator Lindsay Graham saying
Speaker 1: her nomination is part of a leftist agenda, you know,
Speaker 1: so you know that it's going to there's going to
Speaker 1: be some bad behavior. It won't change the outcome. But
Speaker 1: I don't take it lightly because people have to want
Speaker 1: to serve, and it's not pleasant for people to go
Speaker 1: through that kind of gauntlet to serve. And it's a
Speaker 1: way of showing a certain license that they believe they
Speaker 1: have and that they believe they should take, particularly with
Speaker 1: women of color. And my own belief is that that
Speaker 1: trickles down into the workplace of the average woman, that
Speaker 1: people watch that and think they can call any woman
Speaker 1: in a professional setting out of her name, or call
Speaker 1: them an Affirmative action nominee, or deem them unqualified by
Speaker 1: virtue of their race, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: So so I think it's harmful and toxic and dangerous,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, I think we will see some of that.
Speaker 1: Can she make a difference on this chord? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think to the average person, first of all, the
Speaker 1: trust in the Supreme Court has declined over the years,
Speaker 1: and now I think it's about forty percent favorability rating
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court itself. You know, we've got a
Speaker 1: majority of the justices squarely conservative. And how are we
Speaker 1: to see the potential for her terms on the Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: every justice can make a difference that they choose to
Speaker 1: do so. So, first of all, it's a choice. You
Speaker 1: have to decide that you want to make a difference,
Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right. I can do math as well
Speaker 1: as the next guy. It is a six three court
Speaker 1: at this point. And so the idea is that the
Speaker 1: Conservatives have a strong majority of a stronghold, and they
Speaker 1: have shown themselves, particularly over the last year or so,
Speaker 1: to be quite willing to flex their muscles and to
Speaker 1: be even reckless in my view, with the flexing of
Speaker 1: those muscles. But it can change if you think about justice.
Speaker 1: So to Mayor, and particularly over the last two years,
Speaker 1: the kinds of dissents that she's been writing, and as
Speaker 1: I said in a recent op ed that I wrote
Speaker 1: in the New York Times, they sting. You can tell
Speaker 1: that they sting, and they are meant to sting because
Speaker 1: you can't make it easy for them to dismantle the
Speaker 1: infrastructure of civil rights. You can't make it easy for them.
Speaker 1: And then the second piece that she's doing is that
Speaker 1: she's talking to the public. She's showing us that what
Speaker 1: we think is happening is in fact happening. You know,
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. And one of the things that I
Speaker 1: know for sure and now is that the public is
Speaker 1: listening to what is happening on the Supreme Court in
Speaker 1: a different way than they have been in past. Yes,
Speaker 1: they are paying attention. I think that they will see
Speaker 1: that the effort that the conservatives are taking is really
Speaker 1: systematic and it is increasingly emboldened to actually rewrite the law.
Speaker 1: At the same time claim that they're not an activist chord.
Speaker 1: And so I do believe that these this sense will
Speaker 1: be powerful. Yes, And they're not going to be just
Speaker 1: speaking to each other now that they're going to be
Speaker 1: talking to the public, to the other courts and to
Speaker 1: the legislative bodies. And so these are really important times
Speaker 1: for us to think about what is in fact the
Speaker 1: judicial imagination that we had for equalities. There was I
Speaker 1: think a roar of approval when at some point, you know,
Speaker 1: Justice Sotomayoran in one case cited Tanahasi Coats and you'd
Speaker 1: be like, who you cite? Who you suggest is worth
Speaker 1: listening to? Right, It's a kind of scholarship that the
Speaker 1: Court should engage. There are all kinds of ways as
Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice that you can be influential if
Speaker 1: you choose to do so. So it is in the
Speaker 1: hands of Judge Jackson to decide how she will be
Speaker 1: on the court. She will have an opportunity. Of course,
Speaker 1: she's going to do what most of us would do,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, which is make friends and alliances where she can.
Speaker 1: That's an important part of the job. I have no
Speaker 1: doubt she will do that, and then I suspect she'll
Speaker 1: be quite scared full at it. But there are all
Speaker 1: kinds of ways to be influential, and I think that
Speaker 1: giving her a little bit of time, she will find
Speaker 1: her way. Do you think it's helpful that she's a
Speaker 1: former public defender? Absolutely? I mean I have railed for
Speaker 1: some time against what I believe has been the capture
Speaker 1: of the federal courts in general and the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: more specifically by prosecutors. That was the pathway to becoming
Speaker 1: a federal judge, and increasingly the pathway to serving on
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court as well. People had worked in the
Speaker 1: Justice Department, They've been US attorneys and so forth, and
Speaker 1: I think it shows in the jurisprudence that comes from
Speaker 1: the federal courts that the mindset is more prosecutor oriented.
Speaker 1: And it's fascinating because most of the things that we
Speaker 1: take pride in when we go to conferences in other
Speaker 1: countries about our legal system, our constitutional system, our criminal
Speaker 1: justice system, are all the things that are really on
Speaker 1: the defense side. We're proud of in until proven guilty
Speaker 1: and Miranda warnings and yeah, and due process and the
Speaker 1: ability to confront your accuser and the right to remain
Speaker 1: silent and for that not to be incriminating. And just
Speaker 1: think about all of the things that we talk about
Speaker 1: as making a criminal legal system sound in a democracy,
Speaker 1: and they're not about how many people we put away
Speaker 1: in for how many years and how many people we
Speaker 1: have on death row. Those are not the things that
Speaker 1: American lawyers brag about around the world, right, So it's
Speaker 1: fascinating that the role of public defenders and criminal defense
Speaker 1: attorneys in general, along with civil rights lawyers who are
Speaker 1: doing some of the noblest work in this profession, has
Speaker 1: largely been downgraded among the qualifications for those who serve
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court and on the federal courts in general.
Speaker 1: And I think we've been really pushing to reverse that,
Speaker 1: and I credit President Biden with having done an exemplary
Speaker 1: job of beginning to turn that around in his federal
Speaker 1: nominations as well as with the domination of Judge Jackson.
Speaker 1: You had mentioned Mike Brown in the response of LDF
Speaker 1: to the situation involving his death. We have just come
Speaker 1: off a couple of years of the pandemic where we
Speaker 1: have focused on inequities. We have a Black Lives Matter movement,
Speaker 1: and the movement has gotten a lot of traction lately,
Speaker 1: and the public seems to be paying attention to these issues. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: it does not seem that leadership in Washington has really
Speaker 1: taken up the mantle and moved to do more policy
Speaker 1: work to support these ideas and these early cries for justice.
Speaker 1: How can we make the connection, How can these movements
Speaker 1: become the influencers of policy in this country. Well, I
Speaker 1: think we have a political problem. We have a broken
Speaker 1: political system that has to be overhauled in a variety
Speaker 1: of ways. I don't put that at the feet of
Speaker 1: the civil rights community, because I think one of the
Speaker 1: things that's been revealed by the Trump presidency and the
Speaker 1: excesses of his presidency and of Congress during those years,
Speaker 1: are the ways in which the system has to be fixed.
Speaker 1: I think the conversation we've had for the last year
Speaker 1: about the filibuster rule is enormously important. That we have
Speaker 1: a right to weigh in on procedures and practices that
Speaker 1: are archaic that stand in the way of moving our
Speaker 1: democracy forward, and that has to be addressed. So we
Speaker 1: have a problem. We have a problem in which some
Speaker 1: of the rules need to be changed, but we also
Speaker 1: have a problem in which political leaders are valuing power
Speaker 1: over democracy, and that is the beginning authoritarianism, and it's very,
Speaker 1: very serious. People want to stay in their jobs. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you think about jerrymandering, another thing that is anti
Speaker 1: democratic at the levels that we're seeing it, and yet
Speaker 1: people are willing to do it so that their party
Speaker 1: can stay in power forever. I mean, this is every
Speaker 1: child knows that sometimes I go first and sometimes you
Speaker 1: go first. When we play a game, right, it's your
Speaker 1: turn and then it's my turn. We're now facing a
Speaker 1: moment where even that seminal lesson that every child knows
Speaker 1: has been lost. This is part of why Trump can't
Speaker 1: say he lost the election, because it's never anybody else's turn.
Speaker 1: It's only his turn. And that's what's happening to our politics.
Speaker 1: And I keep saying that the movements really have done
Speaker 1: their job. Yes, the movements have done their job. Oh listen,
Speaker 1: let me let me say this. Let me just get
Speaker 1: this out. We did the dog on saying okay, we
Speaker 1: did it. The work that we've done, the movements, the
Speaker 1: ordinary people who have been fighting, the millions of people
Speaker 1: who came out in fifty States after seeing the video
Speaker 1: of George Floyd being killed in the middle of a
Speaker 1: global pandemic, fifty states largest civil rights marches we have
Speaker 1: ever seen in this country and around the world in solidarity.
Speaker 1: The people have been on point, and the civil rights
Speaker 1: ecosystem has been on point. The politics is broken and
Speaker 1: is working counter to what the people are showing us
Speaker 1: they want. And it is also true that there are
Speaker 1: people who are opposed to us. They've been coming out
Speaker 1: there at the school board meetings, right There's fewer in number,
Speaker 1: but they are willing to be cruel, rude, brutal, sometimes violent.
Speaker 1: And you saw what happened on January sixth, just a
Speaker 1: few thousand people, but look at what they did, and
Speaker 1: we look at what they were prepared to do. And
Speaker 1: we're also in this situation right now where we have
Speaker 1: a Supreme Court that, as we already discussed, is emboldened
Speaker 1: and kind of reckless in this moment. So we're up
Speaker 1: against is pretty strong. But we have to stand strong
Speaker 1: and stay focused and powerful, keep our eyes on the prize,
Speaker 1: which we always do. What's next for you? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: going to take a minute, catch my breath. I'm going
Speaker 1: to write this book that I think is important. I
Speaker 1: think that's also part of civil rights work is some
Speaker 1: of us taking a minute to put the pieces together
Speaker 1: and talk about where we are and how we get
Speaker 1: where we want to go. And then I'll be thinking
Speaker 1: about the next way that I am supposed to contribute
Speaker 1: to this work. This is my life's work. But I'm
Speaker 1: mostly I'm unashamed to say I'm proud, proud of what
Speaker 1: I've been able to accomplish. Well, I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: seeing what you do and thank you for all that
Speaker 1: you've already done. I appreciate it. Thank you, and neither
Speaker 1: thank you for all you've done. Ivol has identified a
Speaker 1: wide range of inequities and the small and big actions
Speaker 1: needed to dismand told them like ifol I look at
Speaker 1: what lies ahead with clear eyes, sustainable progress is not easy.
Speaker 1: So how do we move forward. I'm struck by Eiffel's
Speaker 1: emphasis on the interconnectedness of civil rights issues and the
Speaker 1: need for civil rights leaders to speak with one voice.
Speaker 1: This is a path we need to follow. On the
Speaker 1: next episode, I'm speaking with a comedian and filmmaker w
Speaker 1: Canal Bell about his new documentary series We Need to
Speaker 1: Talk About Cosby. Bill Cosby is the trojan horse for
Speaker 1: having the bigger conversation about rape culture in America. And
Speaker 1: it's not a conversation that lots of people want to have.
Speaker 1: More people say no than yes. But the people showed
Speaker 1: up really shut up, including many of the survivors. And
Speaker 1: look for a special episode in time for the Oscars.
Speaker 1: I'll be talking with the President of the Academy of
Speaker 1: Motion Pictures, Don Hudson about the academy recent changes in
Speaker 1: the aftermath of Oscar So White. Getting Even is a
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries and is written and hosted by
Speaker 1: me Anita Hill. It is produced by Mola Board and
Speaker 1: Brittany Brown. Our editor is Sarah Kramer, our engineer is
Speaker 1: Amanda kay Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. Luis
Speaker 1: Gara composed original music for the show. Our Executive producers
Speaker 1: are Mia Lobel and Lee tal malad Our. Director of
Speaker 1: Development is Justine Lane. At Pushkin thanks to Heather Fane,
Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, John Schnarz, and Jacob Weisberg.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Anita Hill and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Anita Hill. You can find Pushkin on
Speaker 1: all social platforms at pushkin Pods, and you can sign
Speaker 1: up for our newsletter at pushkin dot Fm. If you
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