WEBVTT - Andrew Loog Oldham 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.119 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.119 guest today is literally the legendary. They say legendary about 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.760 a lot of people, but this guy is legendary. Andrew 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.320 Luke Oldham. I remember getting email the first time about 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.920 the turn of the century, said Andrew Luke Oldham. Saw 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.080 him on the back of all those Stones album covers. 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.759 It's like, great to have you here, you a thank you, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.320 good to be with you again a second round. Right, Well, 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.520 as I say, I went to bo Guitar in September 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.720 of thirteen and I knew that Andrew was there and 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.520 we connected. That was the best place certainly I've been 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.720 to this century, maybe ever in that you really feel 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.120 vibrantly alive in Bogata. Tell the audience how you ended 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.519 up in bo Gutar. I went in at the end 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.280 of nineteen seventy four in London to Saister that was 0:00:55.320 --> 0:01:00.800 showing a musical comedy called John Paul, George Ringo and 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.880 Bert written by a guy called William Willie Russell. I 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.119 had no idea what it was about. One probably because 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.199 the condition I arrived in at the theater, and too 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.199 that the condition was accelerated by they're being this lady 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.440 in front of me in the theater who had now 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.480 been married to forty one years. But I was just 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.240 all I can tell you about that show was her 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:29.080 neck and we spent time together. I was living in 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.080 New York at the time, and she came to visit 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:33.920 me in New York. She went back to Columbia and 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.679 I followed her. Okay, and since we're on Columbia, what 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.160 is the situation with the fark. Supposedly peace was made 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.640 in Colombia? Is it really peace? But those don't know. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:48.520 There's been decades of a revolutionary army terrorizing, closing her 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.240 unrest in Colombia, but supposedly piece has been made. I 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.720 wouldn't call them revolutionary. They're basically businessmen and fatigues because 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.120 their main business over the last thirty years was drugs. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.440 They took over the drug business once Escobar really was 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:05.080 killed and the other towns couldn't stand up to the 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.520 pressure of the FARC and the e l N, the 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:13.640 other ones who they've still no peace with, and kidnapping 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.000 and drug expectation was their main business for the last 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.399 thirty years. The president that we that we have Santos 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.040 once he got his Nobel Prize. Man, you know he's 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.000 just left Columbia. He will just leave Columbia to sort 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:31.840 it out. So you've got um anywhere from twelve to 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:37.720 twenty thousand men or kids. I would think the kids 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.640 are more the danger because if you've just been raised 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.359 that you don't know much more about life than to 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.120 rape and pillage. What are you going to be an 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.160 uber driver? So they've got that that's going to take 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.200 and the amount of money that has been put aside 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.200 in a country that is just it's the fifth world now, Bob, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.440 It's as simple as that. It's not the third world anymore. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.480 So it's gotten worse where the rest of us have 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:07.760 pulled ahead. You think you've pulled ahead, Well, this is 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.520 another conversation. I'd be glad to have another podcast what's 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.160 going on in our country. But my point is for 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.120 those most people have not been to Columbia, never might 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.840 have been to South America. You know, we're Americans. We're 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.120 gonna have passports. So the question would become is now, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.640 in the last twenty years and now with peace with 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.200 the FARC, generally speaking, is the economy better or worse? 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.600 I think that's the one thing that's common with the 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.320 rest of the world is the the middle classes being 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.520 suppressed out of any remaining pesto or dollar they've got, 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.680 which is going on everywhere. So it's got better for 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.840 those who had it better anyway. So it's literally just 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.240 like the rest of the world exactly. I mean, we 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.920 looked better because you know, we we were for a 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:55.880 while until your recent change, Donny, Donny, um it, we 0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:01.280 were the only friend that North America had with I mean, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.560 we were the only everything else was, you know. I mean, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.800 but Better's waiter at one time changed his clock half 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.240 an hour, so it wasn't But they're all we we 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.920 were the one that America was going to because you 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.760 can all spend so much money and give us so 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:20.160 much money for supposed to be eradicating drugs. I've never voted, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.920 so I'm pretty cynical about the whole system. Well, then 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.920 I have to ask this, as they said, we're talking 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.359 all these political things, but what is your view of 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.919 Brexit in the European Union. Um again, you've got David 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.400 Cameron behaved exactly the way that our president. Okay, I've 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.720 done it, I got my Nobel Prize. I'm off he 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.120 did the Brexit thing. He left and isn't that to 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:49.000 two years ago at least? Um, it's uh, it's a 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.080 trrendous mess. I think it would be better if they 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.480 didn't do it. And I think that could that could happen. 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.520 It would be interesting. I was actually heying with Billy Bragg, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.400 who's very political. He thought, might I want to read 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:03.320 his book? Full book? Yeah exactly, he sent it to me. Um, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.000 But before our audience, I don't want to know who 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.880 you are, okay, okay, your most legendary for the Rolling 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.600 Stones immediate records, and it goes on for Tony Calder recently. 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.320 Yes he did. He was your partner in the media, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.960 Yes he was. Okay, But as I say, you are 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:29.200 born in what yearto so through the fifties whereas music 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.600 your focus or did you? Were you an opportunist? How 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.279 did you end up getting into the music scene in 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.920 the early sixties through fashion? Because I mean, I mean 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:42.279 I left school to sixteen. The first job was at sixteen. Um, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.760 and I wish Sony more kids could leave school to sixteen. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.400 You know, education as a crime. But we won't go there. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.320 Oh I would like to go there. I think you know, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.240 education is basically to keep people in line as opposed 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.240 to be creative exactly exactly, you know, to go it's 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.520 not going to work at six is criminal. But then 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.400 not all as blessed as we who were kicked out 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.000 and had to get on with right. But when I 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.640 did that in the first place, I wanted to work 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.480 where the carpets were thick and the teacups were thin. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.719 And I landed up with a lady called Mary Quant, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:19.760 legendary fashion designer who had a sort of karmas such 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.760 or redbird records of fashion that worked in that her 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.320 husband was the hustler. She cut and did the clothes, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.960 the husband hustled and sold. And they also had an 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:33.880 old school friend who made surely utpaid old school interesting euphemism. Anyway, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.000 it worked, and I had a great education. The pop 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.480 that the fashion business was the book what was your 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.920 gig with? And you just showed up and say I'll 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.960 do anything that you hired you. I mean, I just 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.240 that's the place. I don't want to knock on one door. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.680 I don't like this committee business even now. I think 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.920 you've got to pick where you want to go and 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.200 go there. Okay, Well, what was your spiel. That's such 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.520 that she hired you. You know, I can never remember 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.880 the actual moments of because I'm so fucking nervous going 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.880 in like that. I know it works, but I can't. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.280 Somebody else in the room would have to tell you 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.440 what my picture. Okay, you go into a zone when 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.360 the whole situations. In any event, she does hire, she 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.880 hires me. I last there for eight or nine months 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.880 because uh, and we're in what year? This is sixty one? 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.000 And I then start taking a job in the nights 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.920 working at the original Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club, and my 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.520 job there was hanged. Was that another thing where you 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.920 said I have to work at Ronnie Scott's. Oh, yes, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.200 because I've been given a great education of music when 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.760 I was about eleven by a guy next door. During 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.040 the years where you could sit for a guy next 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:49.160 door and not get molested. Is that because the it 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.800 is because they didn't molest you, or the cops weren't there. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.200 You didn't have the we're all stars, even though we're 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.640 a star molester or we'll start you know, the rights 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:58.560 of entitlement, where you think you've got the right to 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.560 intrude on somebody else. There was less of that. Although 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.360 the other thing, of course is I mean, we know 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.280 that's against the law, but being gay was against the 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.520 law anyway, right, but you can't even touch another kid 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.120 if you put it, you know, it's it's amazing world 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.720 we live in, but any even you're with your next 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.880 door neighbor. And I and so when I was eleven, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:18.080 he ran me through everything from U uh a'ma jamal 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.320 to Bob Crosby and the you know, the Brother of 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.679 Being Crossed, the Bobcats, the the Red Novo Um. The 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:27.720 one thing that really made a dent on my mind 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.720 and on Lou Adler because he used it as the 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:35.079 prototype for Carol King was George Sharing with Peggy Lee 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.440 live in Chicago. It's really I mean, I don't know 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.800 that record. I certainly know those people, beauty and the beat. Okay. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.800 If I tracked that record down, I'm gonna hear Tapestry. Okay, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.480 sound it's there, Okay, it's there. Um great, especially with 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.480 the instrumental Sat and Sat and Doll on it, which 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.360 I think it's George Sharing, Quintant and Peggy. Um. So 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.600 I went to work for Ronnie Scott's on the Coats, 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.120 I got the Pakistani food from over the road as 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.760 they didn't have a food license. Uh. Then I kind 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.679 of got greedy and I went to work the midnight 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:15.040 to five am shift at the Flamingo Club, which was 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.240 owned by a guy called Jeff Krueger who had Amberg records, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.480 but he rented the place out that night to the 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.760 Gunnell brothers, who might have heard of from Chris Farlows 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.880 money and all those kind of pis And I served 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.520 the whiskey and the coat bottles because if the cops 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.160 came in and he looked innocent and looked like he 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.080 wouldn't be serving scotch um, And so I did that. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:42.320 Then basically I had my first nervous breakdown. Um, the 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.920 others don't count. The first one is the most important. Okay, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.080 So your how old when you have your first nervous breakdown? 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.040 Sixty one? I'm seventeen. And how do you know you're 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.320 having a nervous break Were you've taken on too much? 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.960 Too much? Three jobs in a week is And do 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.080 you feel building you're building up to it or you 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.800 just freak out it point building up? Then I wouldn't 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.200 call it freak out. Then you decide travel will be 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.160 the cure. So I went to the south of France 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.199 and it's interesting, kind of like the Rod Stewart's song, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.640 you know, every picture tells the story. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.400 and I kind of I ended up there, and it's 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.439 interesting being back in this location because in a restaurant 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.839 up there this past spring, I was able to say 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.880 hello for the first time to Johnny Halldy really before 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.040 he passed. Yes, because when I was seventeen it was 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.760 a very good year and I worked in Jouan Lapin 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:43.160 at an English tea room, serving tea of course um 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.680 and at the end of the block he was already 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.800 in a white tux playing the casino and he was 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.960 only nine months or eight eight months older than me, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.760 and I went, wow, ye first you go you don't 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.720 go something's wrong, but you go, well, there's hope man, 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.360 you know. I mean, the other rockers like Eddie Mitchell 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.280 and Dick Rivers were playing cafes and I was attracted 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.280 to all. As bad as French rock is, I was 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.760 attracted to it because it wasn't as personally bad as 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.560 English rock was at the time. Cliff Cliff, Richard, Billy 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.200 Fury right, you know, they were only they only had 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:22.280 an American accent when they sung um, and so I 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.040 preferred the French New Wave in the movies, I preferred 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.760 their new rook you know, and all that with Johnny Hallity, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:31.680 and I'd seen him a couple of times in the 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.720 two thousand's in Marseille, which was a town that when 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.040 I was seventeen I couldn't go to. It was too rough. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.160 Then well, in my job, I didn't have a job, 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.480 I was begging off English tourists literally begging, oh yeah, 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.160 begging in that the pitch went into okay. Mainly the 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.080 ones who ended up in those areas and south of 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.760 France were the Jewish world to do out of London, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.960 who knew how to get money out for the holiday 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.800 because you're only allowed to take fifty pounds away. And 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.800 so you remember when News to pay As or magazine 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.040 used to arrive rolled up. Of course, well the money 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.080 would go in there and it would actually turn up 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.640 at your hotel. Wow, okay, and I would put on 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.400 an accent that appealed to them, which I'm moving into now. 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.760 And I would excuse me, but my allowance hasn't arrived 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.000 from my mother. And I wonder if you could lend 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.400 me if I could borrow ten or twenty francs, and 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.320 if you tell me which hotel you're in, And I did, 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.080 depended on whether I thought they were worth paying back, 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.760 but the rest of it went to my water skiing lessons. Okay, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.600 so you're in the south of France and you meet 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.120 Johnny Holiday. No, I don't meet him. I saw him 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.200 from Afar and you got inspired. And then how long 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.400 are you in France before you return to the island 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.760 until the season runs up? And I'm now I got 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.560 involved in a slight Mickey Mouse type of kidnapping there 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.400 where I ran into a photographer who recently passed a 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.040 great guy called Philip Town's End, and he said, look ah, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.400 if you will keep this heiress locked up, she's still around. 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.400 I can't remember his lady something right. We can sell 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.959 the stories to the stringers of the newspapers like the 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.480 Daily Mail stringer and the Express stringer and things like that. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.439 And the girl was willing, so it wasn't really It's 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.920 all scared, of course, but unfortunately her father had the 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.760 powers to install a scheduled d notice on the newspapers, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.240 which was is the English way of of Uh, a 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:41.000 newspaper can't print something it's against the public interest. At 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:42.680 that time it was used for government thing, but he 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.080 used it so we couldn't say let the girl go 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.679 or she We said it's over. And by November with 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.800 the season, I'm going around knocking on the doors of 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.960 the stringers who didn't buy the stories, getting cash from them, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.160 and then from an English vicar, I let the English 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.880 take my passport away pay for me to go back home, 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.800 and I started again. Mary quant said I can't give 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.640 you your job back and drew, but I'll tell you 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.160 where you can get a job. And she sent me 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.040 to a guy called Peter Hope Lumley, whose mother had 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.439 been a lady in waiting for the queen, and he 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.920 represented doing pr all of the guy who made the 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.640 shoes for the Queen, Edward Rain, Norman Hartnell, who made 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.600 the dresses, Hardy Amy's who made prince and stuff. So 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.880 I had a very good education there and then fell 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.360 into pr It was not something you said, um well, 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:38.080 the sweet smell of success helped me right, and then 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.560 pop was I got my first I was I got 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.920 to how to get a job to please my mother. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.640 That was real pr as opposed to the pansy royal 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:54.000 type of stuff that very I mean, that was her opinion. 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.720 So I took a job at a regular place to 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.360 please my mother, who did things like the British as were. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:05.480 Guild hated it, and I started taking pop clients on 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.800 the first were like Mark Winter who covered the venus 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.680 and blue jeans and go with a little girl, Kenny 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.480 Lynch who covered up on the roof. Um. And then 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.000 in the way, how did you get connected with them? 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:24.360 You just knock on the door man, you know, I mean, um, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.960 and yeah, I mean it's time. It was a simpler time. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.640 You find out that Bob Dylan is staying in the 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:39.600 Cumberland Hotel in January, either December of sixty January brought 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.760 to England and the freakish or circumstances the television director 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.400 nobody really knew who he was. Then goes on holiday 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.320 to New York, sees him in the village is doing 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.880 a Jack London play for for the BBC. The BBC 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.440 and says, look, there's this folks singer I saw. I'd 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.960 like him to be doing the Mad House of Carroll 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.720 Street or something like that. Um and says, I think 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.120 he would be good in the background, um singing in 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.520 the background. The tapes are wiped. They don't exist anymore. Wow, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.200 I don't even know this story, okay. And so he 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:16.880 turns up in England with Albert Grossman, and that's the 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.600 manager for the listeners, for the listeners who were not 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.840 steeped in sixties history. Okay, Well he's the manager, right, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.560 And well, I mean, you know the genius of it, 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:34.640 the that without Peter, I mean Peter, Paul and Mary. Well, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.520 let's go back to the thing without Albert Grossman. Does 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.600 Bob Dylan make it? No? Right? Of course, not, no, no. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.200 And I threw a guy at the Melody Maker, which 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.880 was one of our four musical papers which came out 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.640 every week. Yes it did, but it was the most 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:56.120 jazz and folk of the elders were basically pop, right, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.160 And I went knocked on the door and I got 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.640 the gig. I got the gig for ten the ten 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.440 days they were there, probably I got You were the 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.159 pr guy for Bob Dylan? Now was he? So he 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.040 was in that musical? Well, it's a television play. And 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.080 and while the plays it's a Jack London thing. And 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.199 while the play is going on at certain parts during it, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.680 he's playing the guitar in the background, so the actors 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.440 got you know, where you and I are talking, he's 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.280 at the corner playing the time. But he's not doing 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.320 any independent gigs or is he? No, not took him 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.680 around London. He got to places like the jazz stores, 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.359 the record stores, Dobell's Jazz and things like that. But 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.640 the only gig was the television show. And you one 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.840 has to ask was he is enigmatic or was he 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.000 you know, wet behind the years at that point they 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.920 never are man Otherwise he wouldn't have been with Albert Gross, right, 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.680 I mean the the I spent twenty minutes with him 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.639 in the hotel um and that Bob Dylan is the 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.600 Bob Dylan you got now fully formed, fully formed. Okay, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.879 so you do the gig with Dylan and yeah, But 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.120 the point is that when I'm in the room with 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:10.280 them and I'm watching this celestial marriage between the two 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.640 of them, you know, you've you know, when you've been there, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:19.840 when it's worked, and I'm going for whatever this is, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.719 I want it, okay, because there's no don't don't come 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.320 out and go. I've got to find an act that 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.560 never came into it. I just carried on what I 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.760 was doing, and in that beginning of sixty three, so 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.520 I had Bob Dylan for ten days. Then through one 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.440 of my more pop clients, I was in a television 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.399 show with Mark Winter and he was promoting Go with 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.080 a Little Girl, his second single, the Steve Lawrence Thing 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:49.200 here and the Beatles were doing their second record Please 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:54.520 Please Me, and so um I walked up to John 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.040 Lennam and said who handles you? And he said, oh, 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.679 the guy at the Paisley Scarf and the corn and 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.120 I went over and got the gig to do their 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:11.280 pr in London because the Beatles or Brian Epstein's operation 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.399 was still based in Liverpool, and in the beginning of 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.280 ninety three you didn't make long distance phone calls selling 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.800 a crew. I still remember that when you used to 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.520 pay by the minute, right, so you might over a funeral, 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.840 a birth would be a letter. And I got the gig. 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.679 Somebody else had a guy called Tony Barrow. Have you 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.800 heard of him. Yeah, he had a very oppressive version 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.119 of the gig because he worked at Decca, which is 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.040 you know that, not the Beatles record company. And when 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.840 Decca closed at five o'clock. He would use the printers, 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.639 the stamps and the envelopes to mail out Beatles stuff 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.199 to people. He never got on the blower, never got 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.760 on the phone. I did all of that. And in fact, 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.080 when Paul McCartney was in Guitar about four years ago, 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.600 and I was in the room with him, and he 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.560 introduced me to his wife as this is Andrew, our 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.639 first press agent. And I thought it might be a 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.320 trick British question, and I said, well, what about Tony Barry? 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.359 He said, well, that's another story, and that I was 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.800 the first one who was able to go on the 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.960 street for them. I would have them during the four 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.359 months I was with them. I would have them like 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.720 for a day every ten days. And because of the 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.200 roller decks of fashion that I had walked away with 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.800 from Mary Quant and Peter Hope Lumley, I could get 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:38.400 them in a wider range of places than exactly. So 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.760 one has to ask is you know, of course, because 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.719 it was literally an invasion in America. When you're working 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.159 with the Beatles, do you sense that this is a 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.560 turning point for them and it's going to be a 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.919 revolution or it's just another popular there's a night in 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.080 the in those days the same way as you had 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.240 the Dick Clark, and that what we had was different promoters, 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.399 including the Fire the Rosharon Osborne and other people like 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:07.520 Garth House and Tito Burns put on um shows that 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.000 were touring England. The cinemas would close for the night 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.560 and you as they were all old theaters who have 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.439 been considered have been converted to cinemas. They do two 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.000 shows a night. And the Beatles started out on a 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:26.120 bill in February of nine six, three of which top 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.159 of the bill was Chris Montez, Tommy Row and a 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.920 British singer of the straight version of Amy Winehouse Helen Shapiro. 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.040 Same thing comes, same town of town, mustache, you know, 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.040 nice Jewish girl from North London but without the smack right, 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:45.040 and had hits like six huge top ten records walking 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.479 back to Happiness in the sixty two that were huge, 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.399 and the beginning of the tour, the Beatles were bottom 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.359 of the bill and by the time and it moved 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.680 north to the tour, and by the time he got 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.560 north over the top of the bill that with because 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.240 of the span and the effect of please please Me 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.480 and in answer to your question. There was one night 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:13.040 in the Granada, Bedford where the fans were starting to 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.200 break the windows from the outside. And that didn't even 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.359 really go on for even Johnny Ray, who was a 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.720 huge influence. I mean he was before Elvis for all 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:27.560 of us. But that night I stood at the back 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.959 of the theater with Brian Epstein and Okay, there may 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.399 have been kids or eight hundred whatever it was, but 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:40.840 we both heard the whole world. You knew that was 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.919 the moment. Yeah, okay, so you work with them for 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.200 a number of months until the Rolling Stones. Okay, so 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.560 very slowly. How do you end up connecting with the 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:55.359 Rolling Stars? Very slowly? Um? I used to go and 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.560 to hustle journalists at the Record Mirror at a pub 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.280 called d MS Offshore Spree Avenue. That was a great guy, 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:07.280 and he recently passed called Peter Jones, and he said 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:09.160 to me, when I'm trying to house Slim and christ 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.480 I did. I was doing Chris Montez as well, American 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.400 who came through Sam Cooke, Little Richard all this right, Um, 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.679 I just didn't want a regular job. You wanted to 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:26.880 continue My mother was wrong, right, and I, um, uh, listen, 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:32.080 he says. Andrew said, you know our musical papers called 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.600 Record Mirror, which means we only write about people who 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.760 have records. But there's this young R and B fan 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.920 writer who works for us called Norman Joplin, and he's 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.920 so enthusiastic about this band in Richmond that we're actually 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.359 going to publish a piece in a couple of weeks, 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.120 a small piece, but nonetheless a piece or a group 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:59.560 that doesn't have a record, called the Rolling Stones. He said, 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:03.000 I think should go and see him. And I thought, 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.160 is he trying to get rid of me? Or does 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.600 he have my best interest? And even though I'd been 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.560 in the room with Dylan and Grossman, I didn't actually 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:20.439 want to be a manager. I was fine. And I 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.480 then thought, and then on Sunday nights we would have 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.119 our equivalent of the At Sullivan show, the Sunday night 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:29.120 of the London Palladium. And Sunday was stay at home. 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.000 You know my mother on my shirts better than I did. 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:35.800 And so you paid lip service while that process, and 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.159 the trousers and your Chelsea boots got polished, and you 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:46.000 eet and then you watched the Yeah right, And that 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:51.600 was Sunday right, And I was. I thought, well, if 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:53.760 I don't go, how can I turn up the next 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:57.919 Tuesday and hustle him? Right? So manners it was that 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:01.160 had me and I found out I could. I didn't 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:02.880 have to step all the way into town. I could 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:08.320 go out on the override trains to Richmond and I 0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:12.280 got to Richmond station. It was Georgia Gamelski who promoted 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:14.960 these gigs, also died just a couple of years ago, 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:22.000 and he thought he managed them. Um. But then in 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:26.400 the world where you know, there are no accidents, um, 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:29.439 his father died in Switzerland, and so he nobody was 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:31.960 mining the shot at the store. These gigs he put 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.919 on in the back of the station hotel. So I 0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:41.639 went in and I kind of, um fell in love. Um. 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:45.800 One of the great ah parts of it was that 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:49.439 I really had no real affinity for your actual rhythm 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:54.479 and blues. I mean, libra and stella was my you know, 0:25:54.960 --> 0:26:00.600 the drifters was my. UM. So I didn't walk in 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:03.640 there as others might have and go, oh god, they 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:05.760 don't do that Willie Dixson thing. Very well, it was 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:09.400 all fucking magic to you know. This wave came over 0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:15.840 me and I knew that that's why coming up with 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.080 an expression they are a way of life was It 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:22.320 was easy because they had already been saturated with it, 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:28.760 um and you know they were sitting down really performing. Yeah, 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.800 they were all but because it gave you if you've 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:32.360 got the sweater with the holes in it and you're 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:36.040 that left wing that you're left slightly socialist for you're 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:39.040 lining yourselves up with sharecroppers, which I've always found a 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:41.840 little difficult for white middle class boys going to art 0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:45.679 school or university. Um. But nonetheless, so to make it 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.719 look more authentic, didn't have enough movements to to go 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:52.639 through an actual show standing up as yet, but there 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:56.000 was on stools like rhythm and blues people and and 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.760 or jazz's or whatever, and so you had that which 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:04.760 people forget as the revisionism changes or time changes everything. 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:08.200 You had a front line of Brian, Mick and Keith 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:14.760 and it was just so visually, which was always top 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:17.399 of my list anyway, because coming out of fashion, and 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.840 I mean when we started this conversation, he said, clothes 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:25.480 went with the music. What's the point of listening to 0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:30.760 the music if, um, somebody doesn't know what you like? 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:34.760 I mean, you must have had your own equivalent of that. 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.200 What you liked and how you look, told everybody who 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:40.320 you were, of course, I mean in the early sixties 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:42.840 it was Ganondeine and the Beach Boys, no matter where 0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:44.879 you lived. I mean, you have the striped shirts and 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.080 the blue sneakers, and before these English bands hit the 0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:51.639 shores and then we all grew are here. Happened in 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:55.399 Europe too, I mean they were like every country except 0:27:55.440 --> 0:28:00.600 France had its own version of the South America too, 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.280 his own version of the Stones and the Beatles. It 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:07.480 became It's finished in sixty when nobody had rolls royces 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:10.280 or six months in every road to make a record. 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:14.040 But while they were like banging out studio records, in fact, 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.520 the people who were the local, to say, the Swedish 0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:21.480 Stones would be on the shows with us. Would they 0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:25.880 be basically imitating your material? Yes, that's very strange. Let's 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:27.640 go back to his club. So you're in the club, 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:29.119 you go to see him the first time, you have 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.679 the epiphany the first time, Yes, and you go and 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:33.399 talk to the bank. Yes, I do, And what do 0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:36.720 you say, um again, I don't remember. Well, did you 0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:38.800 pitch him as a pr person? And I pitched him 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.480 as a manager. I know I pitched them without stating 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:43.800 what I was pitching them about. They say, I want 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:48.080 to work with you. And were they receptive? Why do 0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:50.720 you think they were receptive because of you or because 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.360 no one had approached him or Gomeshi was all of 0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:58.479 those reasons. And I'm good at you know, I mean 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:04.000 I was younger than them somewhat. Um uh, you know 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.040 did they think at the time this was it? Was 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.880 this a lark? Was this a lifetime employment? Nothing was 0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:12.520 a lifetime then, man, Nothing was a lifetime Until February 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:14.440 the eighth, or whatever the day is, the Beatles appeared 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.640 on it sell of them. So now you're also talking 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:21.400 about to the era certainly pre internet, but also pre calling. 0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:24.800 So they're not playing again to the following Sunday night, right, No, 0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:28.400 they would play in on Wednesday nights and another at 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:32.400 a different place. Um. I didn't see them again though, 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.440 till the next Sunday. And at that stage I had 0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:37.840 a huge dilemma. I mean, a week was a wonderful 0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.880 amount of time. You know. Then right now he's just 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:44.080 waiting for somebody to call you back, right. Um. In 0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:49.000 that manners decreed that I would offer them to Brian 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:51.080 Epstein because I was still working for him, and I 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:53.160 was not only the Beatles, I was doing the beginning 0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.520 of Billy J. Kramer still a blank was going to 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:57.840 be in a month I've done. I had been up 0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:03.240 to um another Paul and met his next find who 0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:05.800 he has short told me, and this was true, they 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:08.960 would have a number one record during the Placemakers. And 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.760 I looked at these scruffs man, you know, like the 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:15.719 coats looked like they were made out of lino um. 0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:18.560 And he was right because of the song that the 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:20.800 song that the Beatles had to central, We're not doing 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:24.840 it right, the Mitch Murray song how do You? So 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.080 I went, you know, I knew it wouldn't work with 0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:30.200 Brian Epstein because he was already getting a bit right 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:40.200 um obsessed. So I probably went like, well, Brian not 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:45.560 like Mick doing much and he passed and a guy 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:47.520 who Ago. But you actually got to the point where 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.760 you said, I have this if you're interested, can we 0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.520 share it? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah, you do wonder sold 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:55.280 it so much you said I'm not interested. I don't 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:58.000 know if he was listening, but I still did what 0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:00.480 I would go about yourself. You said, I gave was shot. 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:06.880 I wouldn't use those words. I did the right thing, right, okay, um. 0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:11.840 And though that then the editor of the Melody Maker, 0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:14.160 guy called Jack Hutton, said, had already said to me 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:17.440 about a month afloat when you need an office. Andrew, 0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:21.120 I know this, uh failed organist didn't say that. If 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:24.720 a guy used to be play organ and the Blackpool 0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:26.560 Tower and then you know it changed his name to 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:31.160 Eric Easton. He was another actually another Epstein east one 0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:34.120 of those the names. Because you're now dealing with the 0:31:34.160 --> 0:31:37.200 wonderful as with my mother's boy with the last generation 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:40.959 of Jews in England who manicured up and became British, 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:43.960 you know, so they didn't there, you know, you wanted 0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:48.040 to belong. So he was now Eric Easton. He was 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:51.920 an agent and he managed a guitarist called Bert Weeden, 0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:55.000 a disc jockey. It was very level c but I 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.560 got an office from him for four pounds a week 0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:01.680 and all no Andrew the long distance ohn calls. All 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:04.120 of the country was all about the long distance phone calls. 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.320 And because he was an agent and I just did 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:11.720 mouth um. I actually probably would not have got the 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:14.960 rolling stones if I hadn't made him. The first partner 0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:18.480 I had in it before the Towers of Babel in America, 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:23.240 and he was became their agent. He became the co 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:25.800 manager with me and the Age Soult when they were playing. 0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:29.760 The club didn't have an agent, Okay, somebody was. You've 0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:32.880 got those two structures of England trad jazz is poor 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:36.760 relative skiffle. I mean, you know from the Billy Brag book, 0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:39.400 the history of how the Lonnie Donegan records came out 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:45.000 of all of that stuff, and how the people who 0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:48.360 controlled the club circuits. I mean, either the promoters like 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.520 Harold Pendleton Georgia with his sort of left wing oasis 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:56.400 that he would run um frowned on rhythm and blues. 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:01.360 It was a poor relative. It did seem to be 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:05.400 attracting younger people than the traditional jazz bands like Humphrey 0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:09.640 Littleton and Chris barber Head. So it's a week later 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:11.800 and you show up with at the gig and you 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:14.760 tell the Stones what I now, show up with Eric Houston, 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.800 and then we signed them and because of mine, and 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.200 when you sign them you literally have a piece of paper. No, 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:23.840 they came in the office. Brian was the leader and 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:28.480 so Brian would come in for the negotiations, and Charlie 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:34.680 and Bill had jobs. Um McKeith didn't good and they 0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:36.720 would sit at Lyon's corner house on the corner of 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:39.719 a couple of black teas and wait for what Brian 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:43.360 had determined with Eric and me. And and because of 0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:47.480 my knowledge of America through mainly Jim Lee who had 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:51.200 Chris Montez, but then Bob Crew and my knowledge of 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.480 Phil Specter, we signed them for the management and the records. 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.440 Okay for those people who don't know, And this is 0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.640 becomes very important, especially in the history of the Role Stones. 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.200 It was licensed to the label, you owned the records. 0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:08.719 Anybody else in the UK have that deal at that time? 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:12.719 They did so it was not incredibly uncommon. No, but 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:16.840 because it was incredibly uncommon, but because I was younger 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:19.319 than all the rest, it would get noticed. All the rest. 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:22.160 You had a pecking order of Joe Meek, who did 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:28.440 tellstar Um who you could call, and he cut acts 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.799 for Robert Stigwood like John Layton and things like that. 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.319 They did it, but they had actually learned it from 0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:37.319 a guy called Dennis Preston who had He'll be in 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:41.400 that book Landsdown Studios, who did Chris Barbera, therefore Lonnie Donegan. 0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:46.040 They were all independent records. So once again you became 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:48.040 a student of the business. How did you know this 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:51.239 When I would be doing pr for anybody from like 0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:57.800 Johnny Tillottson or Brian Highland or Ah Sam Cook and 0:34:57.840 --> 0:35:02.160 little Richard. I wanted him the managers man, because they 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:06.000 would travel with the acts and you just you know, 0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:10.320 I mean America was it for me? From soul Bass 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.000 the posters for those awful out of Parmager films. The 0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:15.239 posters were better than the films. And you know, I 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:20.239 mean anything ammunition and the knowledge that comes in or 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:23.799 the instinct that gets developed by studying these things. You 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:26.359 don't don't actually have to look at a book and 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:29.080 read it and get what's in the book. You just 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:32.799 have to hold it and well, this is very well articulated. 0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:35.240 This is what people don't understand. They go to music schools, 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:37.120 they think they can learn it. It's more about your 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:41.520 sensibility matched with a passion and eyes wide open you 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:44.520 can feel something. Especially all the greats in the music 0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:47.800 business are not educated people. There are people who operate 0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:50.799 on field. So in any event, you make a deal 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.640 with the Stones, Yes, and how long is that deal 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:57.200 is supposed to run? Oh? Three or five years? Three? 0:35:57.360 --> 0:35:59.200 Two three or thing? You have a lawyer who are 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:01.560 or murky? Didn't It just takes out the usual piece 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:03.440 of take out a piece of paper, man, and they 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.839 say they're in okay, and you say you're gonna make them, 0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:08.839 and what is the next step. The next step is 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.279 that the pub called the weather be Arms. They used 0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:15.600 to rehearse and I just said to me, listen, pick 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:18.719 out the five things that you think are the most commercial. 0:36:20.120 --> 0:36:22.880 Play them to me, and then we'll pick three and 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:26.399 we'll go and record them. And so there was Come On, 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:28.839 which was a Chuck Berry b side Willie Dixon thing 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:30.239 I want to be Loved And I can't remember the 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:33.799 third thing. And so we went to Olympic Studios, which 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:36.360 at that time was near Marble Arch and it was 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:43.120 a four track studio with whose money? Eric's yeah, okay, 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:45.600 you don't have any money. I don't have any money, 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:47.400 dare And if I did it, I'd be wearing it. 0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.759 But but let's be clear. You were the producer, for 0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:55.120 want of a better word, Okay, Well, what would you 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.799 consider your role to be at those No, I do 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:01.479 concern I am the only one if they had gone 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.920 through the system. Where As you know from the pictures 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.880 you've seen from Abbey Row, you everybody gets what they deserved. 0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:10.319 The Beatles got what they should have. In other words, 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:12.440 they've got a very competent George Martin who had a 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:16.239 musical experience as well. The engineer Norman Smith knew about 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:19.080 another kind of music, so all those elements could come 0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:21.560 into the Beatles when they needed it. What we had 0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:24.600 to get away from was the fact that acts before us, 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.319 the English Rockers and things like that, you'd have a 0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:30.520 three hour session. They wouldn't even let them listen back 0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:33.600 to what they've done. You know. It was just run 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:39.320 like a shop steward, like a union thing um. And 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.480 the engineer was a guy called Roger's Avage. They give 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:46.080 me the kid an olympic um. We had the forty 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:50.520 quid three hours five three hours, were up at five 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:55.000 to six and got no more money. Right. Recordings weren't 0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:58.080 that good? Right? I mean, but they weren't. They were 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:00.680 less terrified with me than they would have been with 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:03.480 a guy who might have been seven years older, who 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:06.040 would have felt like fifty years old. Did you give 0:38:06.080 --> 0:38:11.160 them any direction? No? Interestingly, when I eventually listened to 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:16.520 the Chuck Berry record, the vocals a spot on. I 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:20.160 mean you know, I mean they you think almost think 0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:22.120 that Mick was on the Chuck Berry record sing in 0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:26.520 the backup right five six. I went, all right, that's it. 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:31.040 Engineers says, well, we got to mix it, and I said, 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:35.640 what's that? And he explained to me about the four 0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:38.000 channels or the four tracks it was on. And my 0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.200 attitude was if I'm not here, I don't have to 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:42.719 pay for it. So I said, you do it. I'll 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:47.000 come back in the morning. Um the and that was 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:50.000 the first single. Then then Decker tried to put me okay, well, well, 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:52.239 well a little bit slower. So you cut these three 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:56.560 tracks and then how does it become a single? What's 0:38:56.600 --> 0:39:01.920 the deal? Okay? We had gone to Decca because they 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.360 turned down the Beatles. An actual fact, one of the 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:07.640 A and R men, as you know, picked Brian Paul 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:12.160 and the Trammelers because it was nearer. It was Daggingham, 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:15.560 it was it was nearer than the Beatles being in Liverpool. 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:19.480 But anyway, Dick Roe was a very bright man. Then R. Man. 0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:23.080 There was no no, He just said, yeah, I'll take 0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:26.640 it right on the least deal. But they tried, as 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:28.800 you know what I mean, for the sake of your viewers. 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:31.919 The least deal is, you know, you've got to get 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:34.480 ten points or eight points to play with us, opposed 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:37.600 to three or four or two or three. And but 0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:41.040 he wanted to try and get them signed as a 0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:43.560 direct act, so he said, yeah, yeah, but the recording 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.319 is not that good. We want to let one of 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:50.640 our producers have a crank at it. And they picked 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:54.000 a guy who they were giving the gold Watch two 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:56.359 because he delivered a couple of pop things to them 0:39:56.400 --> 0:40:01.080 from sixty two. Guy called Michael Barker, you've done Eden Cane, 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:04.640 and oh god, I was I'm going, I mean you. 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.480 I couldn't turn around to the stones and say play badly. 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:14.879 But my version was marginally better enough that they then 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:17.480 accepted the least deal and we were off to the races. 0:40:17.760 --> 0:40:20.640 In the first track, does how well in the marketplace, 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:22.880 it would have only gone to thirty eight, But I 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:26.440 bought it from thirty eight to eighteen because you had 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:28.680 forty five shops. It wasn't as company, it wasn't a 0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.439 simple and complicated as American Paola, you had forty five 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:36.200 You don't you weren't greasing DJs. You had forty five 0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:39.960 shops that reported to the four musical newspapers, and all 0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:43.960 you had to do was go in and buy three 0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:47.799 to five singles at five shillings and sevenpence each um 0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:52.520 in those shops on a Friday or Saturday. You know, 0:40:52.560 --> 0:40:54.960 it's basically the trick is making the record company fall 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:56.879 in love with you once when you signed with them, 0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:00.080 and twice when they shipped the record, and so the 0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:03.160 factories would go wow. We sold three records in Wellingborough, 0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:07.880 we sold three records in nor Willing Garden City and 0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:13.359 the Rolling the Rolling Stones fans, the small volume that 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:16.360 they were at the time, was still so devoted that 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:18.480 they knew we didn't have the money anyway to beat. 0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.120 Don't worry about and we'll send you a postluder. No, 0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:24.200 don't worry about it. We'll buy the records. And so 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:27.359 a record it going to got to eighteen for one week. 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:29.280 But that was the first dent. That was the beginning, 0:41:29.560 --> 0:41:32.400 and DECA was happy, yeah, and so then what what 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:38.160 happens after that? Then we have to find a follow up, 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:43.600 and the R and B basket of potential songs is 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:47.520 getting smaller as people like the Searchers are doing Sweets 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.719 for My Sweet or the B side of the Orance thing, 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:53.560 which was amazing, you know, I mean in where you're 0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:57.840 finding your songs, Don't throw your Love Away. It was 0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:01.800 a B side by the Orans, and we had nothing 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.960 to record, and one song that I suggested to them, 0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:08.239 which they never got to actually working on, was the 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:10.200 James Ray thing if you've got to make a fool 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:13.480 of somebody, but somebody said no. Andrew Freddie and the 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:16.880 Dreamers did that last week, right, So that was gone 0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:19.680 and it was getting and we were at a rehearsal 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:25.000 studio in Great Newport Street off Leicester Square, and I 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:28.520 just kind of think, if you're not contributing to the 0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:31.320 energy of the room, leave and go to the bathroom 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.319 and you're gonna cup of tea do something like that. 0:42:35.680 --> 0:42:39.400 So I leave, I turn right as opposed to the left, 0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:45.520 and I end up outside Leicester Square tube station and 0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:48.919 getting out of a cab is John and Paul John 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:53.520 Lennon and Paul McCartney, and as they knew me slightly 0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:56.319 from the months that we've been together. It was like, 0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:59.960 what's wrong, Andy? And I said, I'm gonna fucking side 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:06.040 to record with the Rolling Stones. Oh, no problem. They 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:09.399 were great hustlers. And in those early, very early days, 0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:11.640 let's go backstop for a second with the Beatles have 0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:15.359 made it without Brian Epstein. Okay, I mean look at 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:19.360 the pattern? What will They were backing Johnny Gentle for 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:22.000 the guy called Larry Pans who was the gay Colonel 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:24.600 Tom Parker, with Billy Fury, Marty Wild, Joe Brown and 0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:28.040 all these acts. How would they've made it? If if 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:31.840 I mean what would if Ed Sullivan hadn't been on 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:36.040 holiday in Europe? Would he have known what anybody was 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.000 talking about when he was offered the Beatles for the 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:41.920 Ed Sullivan Show. But he had experienced it because on 0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:45.120 a holiday with his wife, they'd stopped in an airport 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:47.279 and what is this pandemonium? Oh it's a group called 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.120 the Beatles who are playing there. So these things are 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.759 all destiny, right, So in any event you're seeing they're 0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:57.680 great hustlers. Yeah, but hustlers for what it's like. As 0:43:57.719 --> 0:43:59.839 we were still getting out of the trap that had 0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:02.759 set for us by losing or winning World War two, 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:05.520 the future if you're not if you weren't part of 0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:11.960 the elite anyway, right, um, you're any day you stay 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.960 you know, oh this is still working, and it was right. 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.720 You know, America changed it. But to see then because 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:20.560 of our we all idolized America. And you know, I 0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.920 could sit and look at a forty five record and 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:27.800 the credits or the nat hntoff notes for Dylan or whatever, 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:30.640 and just this could this would just go on forever. 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:34.200 You know, it would just inspire you. So they hustled 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.000 to see their names on records as writers that of 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:40.879 records that wouldn't They weren't necessarily going to pay the rent. 0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:43.719 That was not the point. I mean, as you know 0:44:43.960 --> 0:44:46.600 and have said often, if you come in into this 0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:51.719 for the money, right, that's not quite enough. If you 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:54.319 turn out to be good at money, God bless you, right. 0:44:54.960 --> 0:45:00.520 And so they come down I the moment I Brian 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:05.279 Jones play the bottleneck on this. I want to be 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.759 a man. I just fucking died when we got to 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.359 hit right, Okay, a little bit slour. You run into 0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:14.280 them at the Lusts. So they're getting out of a cab. 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:16.960 They have just won their first songwriting on it. So 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:21.480 they're clairvoyant, lely tipsy, okay, and they literally come straight 0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:23.560 to the straight to the studio, not oh, I'll be 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:26.440 there and tomorrow. No, no, then and then they got 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.680 an Iva Novello Award, which is yours. They demonstrate the 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:36.719 song and they pretend that, ah, they're finishing it in 0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:43.280 front of us. Ringo had recorded it ten days before, right, um, 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:47.640 and I, oh, lordy, you know, I mean it was 0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:50.480 the next apparition after having heard them for the first time. 0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:53.080 So I didn't even bother to produce the record. I 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:55.920 led Eric. I went to Paris. This is my second 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:59.280 nervous breakdown because I wanted a pair of forty pound 0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:05.920 utter leather boots from Pierre Cardin. That would solve my problem. 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:07.799 I had had. You see, when I worked from Mary 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:11.040 quant I had had a photographer who was about fifteen 0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:14.080 years older than me. When I was seventeen at Mary 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.560 quants say you know, Andrew, you're an alcoholic, right, And 0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:20.480 I said, Terry, I don't even don't know them. The photographer, 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:23.160 I said, I don't even drink. He said no, but 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:29.200 you've got the isms, okay, um, and forty five pound 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:32.440 boots are part of the isms. Okay, but you disappear 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:37.439 just when the record is being made. Yeah, there's gonna 0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:40.160 be no problem, man, you know, I mean Eric could 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.600 hear the Feliciano could have done it. Oh, he could 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.279 have done He could have done Feliciano could have done 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:47.279 the video. It was that much of a breeze. I 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:51.160 mean I heard it in the rehearsal room, um, and 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:53.960 it was just magic. And how long did you go 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:56.920 to France for four days? Okay? So you come back 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:01.440 ready to work, ready to work, and Decca, here's the tracks. 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:05.080 Excited they put it out and what Decca. The same 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.359 way as when they tried to shaft me out of 0:47:08.400 --> 0:47:11.960 the licensing deal, they would have meetings at ten thirty 0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:15.520 every Tuesday morning where they would decide what they were taking, 0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:18.400 what they were putting out. So even it's still, you 0:47:18.400 --> 0:47:21.319 couldn't call something I got a hit. No, you would 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.800 submit it and it would go into the Tuesday morning 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.399 A and R meeting and then they would call you back. 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:31.160 It was all very corporate. I didn't see Recau still, 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.399 I saw the boot of Sonny Bono's car, or Red 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.440 or Buddha. Those people not put are the ones with Conversutra, 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:42.640 but and then they would say we're releasing it on November. 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.360 It was all very but just because this is interesting, 0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:51.320 how long afterwards cut did it come out? See cut 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:58.520 in August? Six weeks? So it comes out? You buy 0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:01.080 a hit or is it an immediate hit? Um? We 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:05.120 buy it. He goes to douneb the ten. You're on 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:08.960 the way from eighteen to ten. Let's right, Yes, indeed, 0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:15.320 Hi everyone, this is Bob left Sets. If you stumbled 0:48:15.400 --> 0:48:18.160 upon this podcast on iTunes or tune in, you may 0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:21.440 be wondering who is this guy. Well, my story of 0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:23.360 the story of my blog, The Left Sets Letter was 0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:26.400 told in episode one. Please check it out. If you 0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:29.480 like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast today and 0:48:29.480 --> 0:48:33.400 you'll hear my interviews with songwriters, performers, music industry and 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:37.400 tech executives. First, also, I'm a what a feedback? What 0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:39.400 do you like? What do you hate? Email me at 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.759 Bob and left sets dot com and now more with 0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:50.359 Andrew lou Goldham. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left 0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:54.200 Sets Podcast. My guest today is literally the legendary. They 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:56.160 say legendary about a lot of people, but this guy 0:48:56.280 --> 0:49:00.560 is legendary Andrew Luke Oldham. I remember getting email the 0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:02.960 first time about the turn of the century, said Andrew 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:05.440 Luke Goldham, saw him on the back of all those 0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:09.239 Stones album covers. It's like great to have you here here, 0:49:09.440 --> 0:49:11.759 Thank you, Bob. Good to be with you again our 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:15.520 second round. Right. Well, as I say, I went to 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:19.760 bow Guitar in September often and I knew that Andrew 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:22.280 was there and we connected. That was the best place, 0:49:22.600 --> 0:49:25.799 certainly I've been to this century, maybe ever, in that 0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:30.080 you really feel vibrantly alive in bo guitar. Tell the 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:33.320 audience how you ended up in bow guitar. I went 0:49:33.520 --> 0:49:38.160 in at the end of nineteen four in London to 0:49:38.280 --> 0:49:43.960 a theater that was showing a musical comedy called John Paul, George, 0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:48.520 Ringo and Bert, written by a guy called William Willie Russell. 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:52.800 I had no idea what it was about. One probably 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:54.840 because the condition I arrived in at the theater, and 0:49:54.880 --> 0:49:58.640 two that the condition was accelerated by there being this 0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:03.040 lady m in front of me in the theater who 0:50:03.120 --> 0:50:06.000 had now been married to forty one years. But I 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:07.799 was just all I can tell you about that show 0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:12.640 was her neck and we spent time together. I was 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:15.600 living in New York at the time, and she came 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:17.239 to visit me in New York. She went back to 0:50:17.280 --> 0:50:21.200 Columbia and I followed her. Okay, and since we're on Columbia, 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:24.799 what is the situation with the fark. Supposedly peace was 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.600 made in Colombia. Is it really peace? For those don't know, 0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:32.440 there's been decades of a revolutionary army terrorizing clausing her 0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:35.200 unrest in Columbia, but supposedly piece has been made. I 0:50:35.200 --> 0:50:38.640 wouldn't call them revolutionary. They're basically businessmen and fatigues because 0:50:38.680 --> 0:50:41.040 their main business over the last thirty years was drugs. 0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:44.720 They took over the drug business once Escobar was killed 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:49.440 and the other towns couldn't stand up to the pressure 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.640 of the FARC and the e l N, the other 0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:57.560 ones who they've still no peace with. UM and kidnapping 0:50:57.600 --> 0:51:00.919 and drug expectation was their main business for the last 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:04.319 thirty years. The president that we that we have Santos 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:08.000 once he got his Nobel prize. Man, you know he's 0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:10.959 just left Columbia. He will just leave Columbia to sort 0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:15.759 it out. So you've got UM anywhere from twelve to 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:21.680 twenty thousand men or kids. I would think the kids 0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:24.560 are more the danger because if you've just been raised 0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:28.320 that you don't know much more about life than to 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:31.080 rape and pillage. What are you going to be an 0:51:31.160 --> 0:51:35.080 uber driver? So they've got that that's going to take 0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:38.680 the amount of money that has been put aside in 0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:41.160 a country that is just it's the fifth world now, Bob, 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:43.400 It's as simple as that. It's not the third world anymore. 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:46.440 So it's gotten worse where the rest of us have 0:51:46.520 --> 0:51:51.600 pulled ahead. You think you've pulled ahead. Oh well, this 0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:54.000 is another conversation. I'd be glad to have another podcast, 0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:56.640 but what's going on in our country? But my point 0:51:56.800 --> 0:51:58.720 is for those most people have not been to Columbia, 0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.040 never might have been to South America. We're Americans, have passports. 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.760 So the question would become is now, in the last 0:52:05.800 --> 0:52:09.200 twenty years and now with peace with the farc generally speaking, 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:12.480 is the economy better or worse? I think that's the 0:52:12.600 --> 0:52:14.080 one thing that's common with the rest of the world 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:17.080 is the the middle class is being suppressed out of 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:20.160 any remaining pesto or dollar they've got, which is going 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:23.200 on everywhere. So it's got better for those who had 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:26.239 it better anyway. So it's literally just like the rest 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:29.240 of the world exactly. I mean, we looked better because 0:52:29.280 --> 0:52:32.640 you know, we we were for a while until your 0:52:33.920 --> 0:52:40.800 recent change, Donny, Donny it we were the only friend 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:45.759 that North America had with I mean, we were the 0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:48.200 only everything else was, you know. I mean, but Venezuela 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:50.719 at one time changed his clock half an hour, so 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:54.680 it wasn't. But they're all we we were the one 0:52:54.960 --> 0:52:57.560 that America was going to because you can all spend 0:52:57.600 --> 0:52:59.360 so much money and give us so much money for 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:05.200 supposedly eradicating drugs. I've never voted, so I'm pretty cynical 0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:08.400 about the whole um system. Well, then I have to 0:53:08.440 --> 0:53:10.880 ask his as they said, we're talking all these political things, 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:17.000 but what is your view of Brexit in the European Union. Um, again, 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:21.120 you've got David Cameron behaved exactly the way that our president. Okay, 0:53:21.160 --> 0:53:24.360 I've done it, I got my Nobel Prize. I'm off 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:27.920 he did the Brexit thing. He left and isn't that 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:32.600 too to two years ago at least? Um, it's uh, 0:53:32.640 --> 0:53:34.680 it's a horrendous mess. I think it would be better 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:36.680 if they didn't do it. And I think that could 0:53:36.719 --> 0:53:39.600 that could happen. It'd be interesting. I was actually was 0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:41.640 hanging with Billy Bragg, who's very political. He thought it 0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:44.439 might I want to read his book, right, skiffle book? 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:48.120 Yeah exactly, he sent it to me. Um, but before 0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:52.840 our audience, I don't want to know who you are, okay, okay, 0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:56.239 your most legendary for the Rolling Stones Immediate records. And 0:53:56.280 --> 0:53:59.200 it goes on for Tony Calder recently, Yes he did, 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:02.640 he was a partner in the media, and yes he was. Okay, 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:07.399 but as I say, you are born in what year? 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:15.080 So through the fifties, whereas music your focus or did you? 0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:17.400 Were you an opportunist? How did you end up getting 0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:20.360 into the music scene in the early sixties through fashion? 0:54:20.840 --> 0:54:23.080 Because I mean, I mean I left school at sixteen. 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:26.640 The first job was at sixteen. Um, and I wish 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:28.920 so many more kids could leave school of sixteen. You know, 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:31.960 education as a crime, but we won't go there. I 0:54:32.000 --> 0:54:34.120 would like to go there. I think. You know, education 0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:37.319 is basically to keep people in line as supposed to 0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:40.520 be creative exactly exactly. You know, to it's not going 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:44.520 to work at six is criminal? But um, then on 0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:46.480 all was blessed as we who were kicked out and 0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:48.920 had to get on with it right. But when I 0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:51.560 did that in the first place, I wanted to work 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.399 where the carpets were thick and the teacups were thin. 0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:59.120 I landed up with a lady called Mary Kwant, legendary 0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:03.920 fashion design who had a sort of karma such or 0:55:04.040 --> 0:55:07.160 redbird records of fashion that worked in that her husband 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:09.560 was the hustler. She cut and did the clothes, the 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:13.120 husband hustled and sold. And they also had an old 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:17.800 school friend who made sure they got paid school interesting euphemism. Anyway, 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:20.959 it worked and I had a great education. The pop 0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:23.759 that the fashion business was THEO what was your gig with? 0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:27.240 And you just showed up and say I'll do anything 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:30.760 that you hired you? I mean, I just that's the place. 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:32.919 I don't want to knock on one door. I don't 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:36.960 like this committee business even now. I think you've got 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:39.880 to pick where you want to go and go there. Okay, well, 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:42.160 what was your spiel? There's such that she hired you. 0:55:42.160 --> 0:55:46.319 You know, I can never remember the actual moments of 0:55:47.080 --> 0:55:50.920 because I'm so fucking nervous going in like that. I 0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:54.320 know it works, but I can't somebody else in the 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:56.359 room would have to tell you what my picture. Okay, 0:55:56.360 --> 0:55:58.840 you go into a zone when the whole situation exactly 0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:01.600 In any event, she does hire, she has me. I 0:56:01.760 --> 0:56:05.920 last there for eight or nine months because uh, and 0:56:05.960 --> 0:56:11.040 we're in what year? This is sixty one, And I 0:56:11.200 --> 0:56:13.319 then start taking a job in the nights working at 0:56:13.320 --> 0:56:16.399 the original Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club, and my job there 0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.880 was hanged. Was that another thing where you said I 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:22.160 have to work at Ronnie Scott's. Oh, yes, because I've 0:56:22.200 --> 0:56:24.279 been given a great education of music when I was 0:56:24.280 --> 0:56:27.239 about eleven by a guy next door. During the years 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:29.239 where you could sit for a guy next door and 0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:33.560 not get molested. Is that because the it's because they 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:36.239 didn't molest you, or the cops weren't there. You didn't 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:38.479 have the we're all stars even though we're a star 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:41.280 molester or were start you know, the rights of entitlement 0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:43.040 where you think you've got the right to intrude on 0:56:43.080 --> 0:56:45.920 somebody else. There was less of that. Although the other thing, 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:48.160 of course is I mean, we know that's against the law, 0:56:48.239 --> 0:56:50.239 but being gay was against the law anyway, right, But 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:51.920 you can't even touch another kid if you put it. 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:54.680 You know, it's it's amazing world we live in, but 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.960 any even you're with your next door neighbor. And so 0:56:57.000 --> 0:57:00.680 when I was eleven, he ran me through everything from 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:04.359 uh Anna Jamal to Bob Crosby and the you know, 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:07.479 the Brother of Being Crossed, the Bobcats, the the Red 0:57:07.560 --> 0:57:10.960 Novo Um. The one thing that really made a dent 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:13.239 on my mind and on Lou Adler because he used 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:18.280 it as the prototype for Carol King was George Sharing 0:57:18.280 --> 0:57:23.000 with Peggy Lee live in Chicago. It's really I mean, 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:24.680 I don't know that record. I certainly know those people, 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:26.880 beauty and the beat. Okay, if I track that record down, 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:32.800 I'm gonna hear Tapestry. Okay, sound it's there. It's there. 0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:37.120 Um great, especially with the instrumental Sat and Sat and 0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:40.000 Doll on it, which I think it's George Sharing Quintint 0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:43.800 and Peggy. Um. So I went to work for Ronnie Scott's. 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:46.200 I hung the coats, I got the Pakistani food from 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:49.920 over the road as they didn't have a food license. Uh. 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:53.760 Then I kind of got greedy and I went to 0:57:53.800 --> 0:57:58.240 work the midnight to five am shift at the Flamingo Club, 0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:01.200 which was owned by a guy called Jeff Krueger who 0:58:01.240 --> 0:58:04.000 had Amberg records, but he rented the place out that 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:06.160 night to the Gunnell brothers, who might have heard of 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:09.840 from Chris Farlows money and all this kind of And 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:13.040 I served the whiskey and the coat bottles because if 0:58:13.040 --> 0:58:16.640 the cops came in and he looked innocent and looked 0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:20.600 like he wouldn't be serving scotch um. And so I 0:58:20.640 --> 0:58:26.080 did that. Then basically I had my first nervous breakdown. Um, 0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:28.840 the others don't count. The first one is the most important. Okay, 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:30.560 So your how old when you have your first nervous 0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:34.680 break sixty one? I'm seventeen. And how do you know 0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:37.240 you're having a nervous break Were you've taken on too much? 0:58:37.600 --> 0:58:40.920 Too much? Three jobs in a week is And do 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:43.000 you feel building you're building up to it or you 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:46.360 just freak out at one point building up? Then I 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:49.040 wouldn't call it freak out. Then you decide travel will 0:58:49.080 --> 0:58:52.040 be the cure. So I went to the south of France. 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:55.120 And it's interesting, kind of like the Rod Stewart's song. 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:57.600 You know, every picture tells the story, Oh yeah, yeah, 0:58:57.680 --> 0:59:00.600 and I kind of, Um, I ended up there and 0:59:00.760 --> 0:59:05.760 It's interesting being back in this location because in a 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:09.560 restaurant up there this past spring, I was able to 0:59:09.600 --> 0:59:12.320 say hello for the first time to Johnny Hallity really 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:16.800 before he passed. Yes, Because when I was seventeen, it 0:59:16.920 --> 0:59:20.360 was a very good year and I worked in Joan 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:27.120 Lapin at an English tea room, serving tea of course um. 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:29.600 And at the end of the block he was already 0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:31.760 in a white tux playing the casino and he was 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:33.920 only nine months or eight eight months older than me, 0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:37.520 and I went, wow, yeah, first of you go, you 0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:40.640 don't go something's wrong, but you go, well, there's hope, man, 0:59:41.000 --> 0:59:43.320 you know. I mean the other rockers like Eddie Mitchell 0:59:43.360 --> 0:59:47.240 and Dick Rivers were playing cafes, and I was attracted 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.240 to all. As bad as French rock is, I was 0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:54.720 attracted to it because it wasn't as personally bad as 0:59:54.720 --> 0:59:57.479 English rock was at the time. Cliff Cliff, Richard, Billy 0:59:57.520 --> 1:00:01.160 Fury right, you know, they were only they only had 1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:06.160 an American accent when they sung um. And so I 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:09.000 preferred the French New Wave in the movies. I preferred 1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:13.720 their rook you know, and all that. With Johnny Hallity, 1:00:13.880 --> 1:00:15.640 and I'd seen him a couple of times in the 1:00:15.640 --> 1:00:19.640 two thousands in Marseilles, which was a town that when 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:22.000 I was seventeen I couldn't go to it was too rough. 1:00:22.080 --> 1:00:25.080 Then well, in my job, I didn't have a job, 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:28.400 I was begging off English tourists literally begging, oh yeah, 1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:32.120 begging in that the pitch went into Okay. Mainly the 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:34.040 ones who ended up in those areas of south of 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.680 France were the Jewish world to do out of London, 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:39.920 who knew how to get money out for the holiday 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:42.760 because you're only allowed to take fifty pounds away. And 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:45.280 so you remember when newspapers or magazine used to arrive 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:47.640 rolled up, of course the money would go in there 1:00:47.720 --> 1:00:51.800 and it would actually turn up at your hotel. Wow, okay, 1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:55.000 and I would put on an accent that appealed to them, 1:00:55.160 --> 1:00:58.840 which I'm moving into now, and I would excuse me, 1:00:58.880 --> 1:01:02.920 but my allowance hasn't arrived from my mother, and I 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:05.960 wonder if you could lend me, if I could borrow 1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:08.200 ten or twenty francs, and if you tell me which 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:13.600 hotel you're in, And I did, depended on whether I 1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:16.680 thought they were worth paying back. But the rest of 1:01:16.720 --> 1:01:19.920 it went to my water skiing lessons. Okay, so you're 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:23.440 in the south of France and you meet Johnny Holliday. 1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:26.480 No I don't meet him. I saw him from Afar 1:01:26.560 --> 1:01:29.320 and you got inspired. And then how long are you 1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:31.760 in France before you return to the island until the 1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:35.160 season runs up? And I'm now I got involved in 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:39.560 slight Mickey mouse type of kidnapping there where I ran 1:01:39.600 --> 1:01:41.960 into a photographer who recently passed, a great guy called 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:46.800 Philip Town's End and he said, look, if you will 1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:51.720 keep this heiress locked up, she's still around. I can't 1:01:51.720 --> 1:01:56.120 remember his lady something right. We can sell the stories 1:01:56.200 --> 1:01:59.800 to the stringers of the newspapers like the Daily Mail stringer, 1:01:59.880 --> 1:02:04.400 the Express string and things like that. And the girl 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:08.360 was willing, so it wasn't really it's alway scared, of course, 1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:13.760 but unfortunately her father had the powers to install a 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:16.480 scheduled de notice on the newspapers, which was is the 1:02:16.480 --> 1:02:21.880 English way of of a newspaper, can't print something it's 1:02:21.920 --> 1:02:25.800 against the public interest. At that time it was used 1:02:25.840 --> 1:02:28.160 for government thing, but he used it so we couldn't 1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:30.400 say let the girl go or she We said it's over. 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:34.200 And by November, with the season, I'm going around knocking 1:02:34.200 --> 1:02:36.760 on the doors of the stringers who didn't buy the stories, 1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:39.240 getting cash from them, and then from an English vicar. 1:02:39.320 --> 1:02:41.880 I let the English take my passport away pay for 1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:44.840 me to go home. When I started again, Mary quant 1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:48.080 said I can't give you your job back and drew, 1:02:48.880 --> 1:02:50.920 but I'll tell you where you can get a job. 1:02:51.440 --> 1:02:54.000 And she sent me to a guy called Peter Hope Lumley, 1:02:54.160 --> 1:02:56.960 whose mother had been a lady in waiting for the Queen, 1:02:57.080 --> 1:03:01.640 and he represented doing pr all of the guy who 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:04.240 made the shoes for the Queen, Edward Rain Norman Hartnell, 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:07.960 who made the dresses, hardy amies who made prince and stuff. 1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:11.000 So I had a very good education there and then 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:16.280 fell into pr It was not something you said, um well, 1:03:16.400 --> 1:03:19.560 the sweet smell of success helped me, you know, right, 1:03:20.240 --> 1:03:26.840 And then pop was I got my first I was 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:29.440 I gotta. I had to get a job to please 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:32.720 my mother that was real pr as opposed to the 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:37.080 pansy royal type of stuff that very I mean, that 1:03:37.200 --> 1:03:40.480 was her opinion. So I took a job at a 1:03:40.520 --> 1:03:43.360 regular place to please my mother, who did things like 1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:47.120 the British Men's Work Guild hated it, and I started 1:03:48.200 --> 1:03:51.000 taking pop. Clients on the first were like Mark Wynter 1:03:51.080 --> 1:03:54.720 who covered the venus and blue jeans and go with 1:03:54.760 --> 1:04:00.000 a little girl, Kenny Lynch who covered up on the roof. Um. 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:02.280 And then in the way, how did you get connected 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:05.480 with them? You just knock on the door man, you know, 1:04:05.600 --> 1:04:12.120 I mean, um, and yeah, I mean it's it was 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.080 a simpler time. You find out that Bob Dylan is 1:04:15.120 --> 1:04:20.160 staying in the Cumberland hotel in January, either December of 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:25.640 sixty January brought to England and the freakish or circumstances. 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:28.680 The television director nobody really knew who he was. Then 1:04:30.520 --> 1:04:32.960 goes on holiday to New York, sees him in the 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:36.240 village is doing a Jack London play for for the BBC. 1:04:36.440 --> 1:04:38.919 The BBC and says, look, there's this folks singer I saw. 1:04:40.120 --> 1:04:42.600 I'd like him to be doing the Mad House of 1:04:42.600 --> 1:04:45.640 Carroll Street or something like that, right, Um, and says 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:49.000 I think he would be good in the background, singing 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:52.439 in the background. The tapes are wiped, they don't exist anymore. Wow, 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:55.120 I don't even know this story, okay. And so he 1:04:55.160 --> 1:05:00.840 turns up in England with Albert Grossman and that's the 1:05:00.880 --> 1:05:04.600 manager for the listeners, for the listeners who were not 1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:07.800 steeped in sixties history. Okay, well he's the manager, right, 1:05:08.560 --> 1:05:12.480 and well, I mean, you know the genius of it, 1:05:13.040 --> 1:05:18.600 the that without Peter, I mean Peter Paul and Mary. Well, 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:21.440 let's go back to the thing without Albert Grossman. Does 1:05:21.480 --> 1:05:25.520 Bob Dylan make it? No? Right? Of course? Not, no, no. 1:05:26.120 --> 1:05:29.120 And I threw a guy at the Melody Maker, which 1:05:29.160 --> 1:05:31.840 was one of our four musical papers which came out 1:05:31.840 --> 1:05:34.560 every week. Yes it did, but it was the most 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:40.080 jazz and folk of the elders were basically pop, right, 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:42.920 And I went and knocked on the door, and I 1:05:42.960 --> 1:05:45.400 got the gig. I got the gig for ten the 1:05:45.400 --> 1:05:47.240 ten days they were there, probably I got You were 1:05:47.280 --> 1:05:49.880 the pr guy for Bob Don't now? Was he? So 1:05:50.000 --> 1:05:53.680 he was in that musical? Well, it's a television play, 1:05:53.760 --> 1:05:56.280 and and while the plays it's a Jack London thing. 1:05:56.960 --> 1:05:59.440 And while the play is going on at certain parts 1:05:59.640 --> 1:06:03.040 during yet he's playing the guitar in the background. So 1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:05.120 the actors got you know, where you and I are talking, 1:06:05.200 --> 1:06:07.480 he's at the corner playing. But he's not doing any 1:06:07.520 --> 1:06:11.000 independent gigs or is He took him around London. He 1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:15.000 got to places like the jazz stores, the record stores, 1:06:15.080 --> 1:06:18.200 Dobell's Jazz and things like that. But the only gig 1:06:18.520 --> 1:06:21.440 was the television show. And one has to ask was 1:06:21.480 --> 1:06:24.760 he is enigmatic or was he you know, wet behind 1:06:24.760 --> 1:06:28.040 the years at that point they never are man Otherwise 1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:31.360 he wouldn't have been with Albert Gross, right, I mean 1:06:31.400 --> 1:06:35.760 the the I spent twenty minutes with him in the hotel. Um, 1:06:36.800 --> 1:06:39.480 and that Bob Dylan is the Bob Dylan you've got 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:44.040 now fully formed, fully formed, Okay, so you do the 1:06:44.080 --> 1:06:46.760 gig with Dylan and yeah. But the point is that 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:50.720 when I'm in the room with them and I'm watching 1:06:50.800 --> 1:06:55.240 this celestial marriage between the two of them, you know, 1:06:55.360 --> 1:06:59.680 you've you know, when you've been there, when it's worked. Um, 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:06.000 and I'm going for whatever this is, I want it, okay, 1:07:06.280 --> 1:07:08.240 because there's no don't don't come out and go. I've 1:07:08.240 --> 1:07:10.560 got to find an act that never came into it. 1:07:11.440 --> 1:07:13.120 I just carried on what I was doing and at 1:07:13.120 --> 1:07:15.520 that beginning of sixty three, so I had Bob Dylan 1:07:15.560 --> 1:07:19.320 for ten days. Then through one of my more pop clients, 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:24.120 I was in a television show with Mark Winter and 1:07:24.320 --> 1:07:27.000 he was promoting go Away a Little Girl, his second single, 1:07:27.080 --> 1:07:30.760 the Steve Lawrence Thing here and the Beatles were doing 1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:37.400 their second record Please Please Me, and so um I 1:07:37.480 --> 1:07:40.360 walked up to John Lennam and said who handles you? 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:43.480 And he said, oh, the guy at the Paisley Scarf 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:47.960 in the corner. And I went over and got the 1:07:48.000 --> 1:07:53.320 gig to do their pr in London because the Beatles 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:58.360 or Brian Epstein's operation was still based in Liverpool and 1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:01.960 in the beginning of three you didn't make long distance 1:08:02.000 --> 1:08:05.440 phone calls selling a crew. I still remember that when 1:08:05.440 --> 1:08:07.680 you used to pay by the minute, right, so you 1:08:07.760 --> 1:08:11.120 might over a funeral. A bus would be a letter, 1:08:13.160 --> 1:08:17.280 you know. And I got the gig. Somebody else had 1:08:17.320 --> 1:08:19.759 a guy called Tony Barrow. Have you heard of him. Yeah. 1:08:19.920 --> 1:08:23.599 He had a very oppressive version of the gig because 1:08:23.600 --> 1:08:25.760 he worked at Decca, which is you know, was that 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:30.680 not the Beatles record prompody? And when Decca closed at 1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:33.640 five o'clock he would use the printers, the stamps and 1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:37.680 the envelopes to mail out Beatles stuff to people. He 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:39.639 never got on the blower, never got on the phone. 1:08:40.120 --> 1:08:43.080 I did all of that, and in fact, when Paul 1:08:43.120 --> 1:08:45.280 McCartney was in Boguitar about four years ago and I 1:08:45.320 --> 1:08:47.160 was in the room with him and he introduced me 1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:50.839 to his wife as this is Andrew, our first press agent. 1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:53.879 And I thought it might be a trick British question, 1:08:54.560 --> 1:08:56.760 and I said, well, what about Tony Barry? He said, well, 1:08:56.760 --> 1:09:01.000 that's another story, and that I was the first one 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:03.479 who was able to go on the street for them. 1:09:03.520 --> 1:09:05.519 I would have them during the four months I was 1:09:05.600 --> 1:09:08.280 with them. I would have them like for a day 1:09:08.280 --> 1:09:11.439 every ten days. And because of the roller decks of 1:09:11.520 --> 1:09:14.519 fashion that I had walked away with from Mary Quant 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:17.160 and Peter Hope Lumley, I could get them in a 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:23.360 wider range of places than exactly. So one has to 1:09:23.400 --> 1:09:25.240 ask is you know, of course, because it was literally 1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:28.360 an invasion in America, when you're working with the Beatles, 1:09:28.880 --> 1:09:31.080 do you sense that this is a turning point for 1:09:31.160 --> 1:09:33.360 them and it's going to be a revolution or it's 1:09:33.360 --> 1:09:37.960 just another popular there's a night in the in those days, 1:09:38.240 --> 1:09:40.560 the same way as you had the Dick Clark and 1:09:41.000 --> 1:09:44.000 that what we had was different promoters, including the father 1:09:44.040 --> 1:09:47.160 of Sharon Osborne and other people like other House and 1:09:47.160 --> 1:09:52.439 Tito Burns, put On um shows that were touring England, 1:09:52.439 --> 1:09:55.599 the cinemas would close for the night and you as 1:09:55.640 --> 1:09:58.120 they were all old theaters who have been considered to 1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:02.040 being converted to cinemas. Ah, they do two shows a night. 1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:07.520 And the Beatles started out on a bill in February 1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:10.680 of nine, three of which top of the bill was 1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:14.559 Chris Montez, Tommy Row and a British singer the straight 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:18.400 version of Amy Winehouse Helen Shapiro, Same thing comes, same 1:10:18.439 --> 1:10:21.519 town of town, mustache, you know, nice Jewish girl from 1:10:21.560 --> 1:10:25.480 North London but without the smack right, and had hits 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:29.839 like six huge top ten records walking back to Happiness 1:10:30.320 --> 1:10:34.160 in the sixty that were huge, and the beginning of 1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:36.000 the tour, the Beatles were bottom of the bill and 1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:38.120 by the time and it moved north to the tour, 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:41.240 and by the time he got north, they the top 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:44.880 of the bill that with because of the span and 1:10:44.920 --> 1:10:49.479 the effect of please please me. And in answer to 1:10:49.760 --> 1:10:53.840 your question, there was one night in the Granada, Bedford 1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:59.479 where the fans were starting to break the windows from 1:10:59.680 --> 1:11:01.960 the outside and that didn't even really go on. For 1:11:02.000 --> 1:11:04.400 even Johnny Ray, who was a huge influence, I mean 1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:08.920 he was before Elvis for all of us. But that 1:11:09.080 --> 1:11:12.280 night I stood at the back of the theater with 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:17.840 Brian Epstein and Okay, there may have been hundred kids 1:11:17.920 --> 1:11:20.559 or eight hundred, whatever it was, but we both heard 1:11:21.200 --> 1:11:26.839 the whole world. You knew that was the moment. Okay. 1:11:26.840 --> 1:11:28.879 So you work with them for a number of months 1:11:29.120 --> 1:11:32.519 until the Rolling Stones. Okay, so very slowly. How do 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:38.120 you end up connecting with the Rolling Stones? Very slowly? Um? 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:41.280 I used to go to hustle journalists at the Record 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:44.639 Mirror at a pub called d MS off Shaftesbury Avenue. 1:11:45.439 --> 1:11:47.439 That was a great guy, and he recently passed, called 1:11:47.439 --> 1:11:52.679 Peter Jones, and he said to me, when I'm joying hustling, 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:54.599 and christ I did was doing Chris Montez as well. 1:11:55.000 --> 1:11:59.320 Americans came through, Sam Cooke, little Richard, all this right, Um, 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:03.120 I just didn't want a regular job. He wanted to continue. 1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:10.800 My mother was wrong, you know, right? And I um, uh, listen, 1:12:10.880 --> 1:12:16.000 he says. Andrew said, you know our musical papers called 1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:19.559 Record Mirror, which means we only write about people who 1:12:19.600 --> 1:12:23.679 have records. But there's this young R and B fan 1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:26.880 writer who works for us called Norman Jopling, and he's 1:12:26.920 --> 1:12:30.879 so enthusiastic about this band in Richmond, that we're actually 1:12:30.880 --> 1:12:34.320 going to publish a piece in a couple of weeks, 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:38.080 a small piece, but nonetheless a piece or a group 1:12:38.120 --> 1:12:43.479 that doesn't have a record, called the Rolling Stones. He said, 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:46.960 I think you should go and see him, And I thought, 1:12:48.520 --> 1:12:52.120 is he trying to get rid of me? Or does 1:12:52.200 --> 1:12:55.400 he have my best interests? And I, even though I'd 1:12:55.400 --> 1:12:58.120 been in the room with Dylan and Grossman, I didn't 1:12:58.120 --> 1:13:04.000 actually want to be a manager. I was fine. And 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:07.320 I then thought, and then on Sunday nights we would 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:09.880 have our equivalent of the At Sullivan Show, the Sunday 1:13:09.960 --> 1:13:13.040 night of the London Palladium. And Sunday was staying at home. 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.920 You know, my mother on my shirts better than I did, 1:13:17.320 --> 1:13:19.760 and so you paid lip service while that process of 1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:23.120 the trousers and your Chelsea boots got polished, and you 1:13:23.400 --> 1:13:29.960 at and then you watched the Yeah right, And that 1:13:30.040 --> 1:13:35.559 was Sunday right, and I was I thought, well, if 1:13:35.560 --> 1:13:37.680 I don't go, how can I turn up the next 1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:42.360 Tuesday and hustling? Right? So manners it was that had 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:45.200 me and I found out I could. I didn't have 1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:47.439 to step all the way into town. I could go 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:52.719 out on the override trains to Richmond, and I got 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:56.839 to Richmond station. It was Georgia Gamelski who promoted these gigs, 1:13:57.240 --> 1:13:59.360 who also died just a couple of years ago, that's right, 1:14:00.439 --> 1:14:05.920 and he thought he managed them. Um. But then in 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:10.320 the world where you know, there are no accidents. Um, 1:14:10.520 --> 1:14:13.360 his father died in Switzerland and so he nobody was 1:14:13.400 --> 1:14:15.920 minding the short at the store. These gigs he put 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:19.840 on in the back of the station hotel. So I 1:14:19.920 --> 1:14:25.560 went in and I kind of um fell in love. Um. 1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:29.720 One of the great ah parts of it was that 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.400 I really had no real affinity for your actual rhythm 1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:38.400 and blues. I mean, Libra and Stollar was my you know, 1:14:38.880 --> 1:14:43.719 the drifters was my you know. Um. So I didn't 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:47.400 walk in there as others might have and go, oh god, 1:14:47.439 --> 1:14:49.519 they don't do that Willie Dixson thing. Very well, it 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:53.040 was all fucking magic to you know. This wave came 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:59.680 over me and I knew that. That's why coming up 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:01.800 with an ext pressure there a way of life was 1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:07.920 it was easy because they had already been saturated with it. Um, 1:15:08.000 --> 1:15:12.639 and you know they were sitting down really performing. Yeah, 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:14.720 they were, but welcome because it gave you if you've 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:16.280 got the sweater with the holes in it and you're 1:15:16.360 --> 1:15:20.000 that left wing that you're left slightly socialist for you're 1:15:20.479 --> 1:15:22.960 lining yourselves up with sharecroppers, which I've always found a 1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:25.800 little difficult for white middle class boys going to art 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:29.599 school or university. Um. But nonetheless, so to make it 1:15:29.760 --> 1:15:33.479 look more authentic, didn't have enough movements to lot to 1:15:33.560 --> 1:15:36.439 go through that Actu's show standing up as yet, but 1:15:36.479 --> 1:15:39.720 there was on stools like rhythm and blues people and 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:42.760 and or jazzes or whatever, and so you had that 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:48.719 which people forget as the revisionism changes or time changes everything. 1:15:48.720 --> 1:15:52.160 You had a front line of Brian, Mick and Keith 1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:58.680 and it was just so visually, which was always top 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:01.360 of my list anyway, because coming out of fashion, and 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:06.759 I mean when we started this conversation, he said, clothes 1:16:06.840 --> 1:16:09.439 went with the music. What's the point of listening to 1:16:09.479 --> 1:16:14.680 the music if, um, somebody doesn't know what you like? 1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:18.720 I mean, you must have had your own equivalent of that. 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:22.120 What you liked and how you looked told everybody who 1:16:22.160 --> 1:16:24.240 you were, of course. I mean in the early sixties 1:16:24.360 --> 1:16:26.760 was gen indeed, and the Beach Boys, no matter where 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:28.800 you lived. I mean you have the striped shirts and 1:16:28.840 --> 1:16:32.000 the blue sneakers, and before these English bands hit the 1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.559 shores and then we all grew are here. Happened in 1:16:35.560 --> 1:16:39.400 Europe too, I mean there were like every country except 1:16:39.400 --> 1:16:44.400 France had its own version of the South America to 1:16:44.560 --> 1:16:47.240 his own version of the Stones and the Beatles. It 1:16:47.320 --> 1:16:51.439 became It's finished in sixty when nobody had rolls Royces 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:54.200 or six months in Ebbey Road to make a record. 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:58.040 But while they were like banging out studio records, in fact, 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:00.960 the people who were the locals, say the Wehedish Stones 1:17:01.040 --> 1:17:05.519 would be on the shows with us, would they be 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:09.880 basically imitating your material? Yes, that's very strange. Let's go 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:11.680 back to his club. So you're in the club, you 1:17:11.720 --> 1:17:13.160 go to see him the first time, you have the 1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:15.920 epiphany the first time. Yes, and you go and talk 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:18.000 to the band. Yes, I do, And what do you say? 1:17:18.320 --> 1:17:21.080 Um again? I don't remember. Well, did you pitch him 1:17:21.080 --> 1:17:23.320 as a pr person and I pitched him as a manager. 1:17:23.760 --> 1:17:26.040 I know I pitched them without stating what I was 1:17:26.080 --> 1:17:28.280 pitching them about, to say I want to work with you. 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:32.720 And were they receptive? Why do you think they were 1:17:32.760 --> 1:17:35.640 receptive because of you, or because no one had approached him, 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:40.400 or Gomeshi was right all of those reasons. And I'm 1:17:40.439 --> 1:17:43.959 gonna you know, I mean I was younger than them somewhat. 1:17:44.600 --> 1:17:49.759 Um uh. You know, did they think at the time 1:17:50.200 --> 1:17:51.960 this was it? Was this a lark? Or was this 1:17:52.040 --> 1:17:55.240 a lifetime employment? Nothing was a lifetime? Then, nothing was 1:17:55.280 --> 1:17:57.600 a lifetime until February the eighth or whatever the day is. 1:17:57.640 --> 1:17:59.519 The beat was a beard on that sell of them. Right. 1:17:59.640 --> 1:18:03.080 So now you're also talking about to the era certainly 1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:06.320 pre internet but also pre calling. So they're not playing 1:18:06.360 --> 1:18:09.280 again to the following Sunday night, right, No, they would 1:18:09.360 --> 1:18:15.160 play in on Wednesday nights and another at a different place. Um. 1:18:15.240 --> 1:18:18.280 I didn't see them again though, until the next Sunday. 1:18:18.360 --> 1:18:20.599 And at that stage I had a huge dilemma. I mean, 1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:22.960 a week was a wonderful amount of time. You know. 1:18:23.080 --> 1:18:25.840 Then right now, he's just waiting for somebody to call 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:31.640 you back, right. Um. In that manners decreed that I 1:18:31.680 --> 1:18:34.120 would offer them to Brian Epstein because I was still 1:18:34.160 --> 1:18:36.080 working for him, and I was not only the Beatles. 1:18:36.080 --> 1:18:38.840 I was doing the beginning of Billy J. Kramer Stilla 1:18:38.880 --> 1:18:40.639 Black was going to be in a month I've done. 1:18:41.040 --> 1:18:45.400 I had been up to um Liverpool and met his 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:49.160 next find who he is sure told me, and this 1:18:49.320 --> 1:18:51.280 was true, They're gonna have a number one record during 1:18:51.280 --> 1:18:54.960 the placemakers And I looked at these scrafts, man, you know, 1:18:55.880 --> 1:18:59.640 the coats looked like they were made out of liner um. 1:19:00.479 --> 1:19:02.519 And he was right because of the song that the 1:19:02.560 --> 1:19:04.720 song that the Beatles had to central We're not doing 1:19:04.760 --> 1:19:07.160 it right, the Mitch Murray's song how do you? How 1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:10.120 do you do it? So I went, you know, I 1:19:10.200 --> 1:19:12.519 knew it wouldn't work with Ryan Empstein because he was 1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:20.719 already getting a bit right um obsessed. So I probably 1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:27.200 went like, well, Bron not like Mick doing much and 1:19:27.840 --> 1:19:30.719 he passed and a guy who Ago. But you actually 1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:32.559 got to the point where you said, I have this, 1:19:32.600 --> 1:19:35.519 if you're interested, can we share it? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah, 1:19:35.640 --> 1:19:37.320 you do. Wonder sold it so much you said I'm 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:41.160 not interested. I don't know if he was listening, but 1:19:41.240 --> 1:19:43.679 I still did what I wouldn't about yourself, he said, 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:46.599 I gave him a shot. I wouldn't use those words. 1:19:47.320 --> 1:19:53.040 I did the right thing, right, okay? Um? And that 1:19:53.520 --> 1:19:56.400 then the editor of the melody maker. Guy called Jack 1:19:56.439 --> 1:20:00.200 Hutton said, had already said to me about am before 1:20:00.240 --> 1:20:02.599 when you need an office, Andrew, I know this, uh 1:20:03.400 --> 1:20:05.840 failed organist didn't say that. The guy used to be 1:20:06.200 --> 1:20:09.599 play organ and the Blackpool tre and then you know 1:20:09.680 --> 1:20:11.759 it changed his name to Eric Easton. He was another 1:20:11.920 --> 1:20:16.880 actually another Epstein Eastman, one of those the names. Because 1:20:16.920 --> 1:20:20.080 you're now dealing with the wonderful as with my mother's 1:20:19.760 --> 1:20:22.599 boy with the last generation of Jews in England who 1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:26.679 manicured up and became British, you know, so they didn't 1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:29.920 there were you know, you wanted to belong. So he 1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:32.800 was now Eric Easton. He was an agent and he 1:20:33.240 --> 1:20:36.720 managed a guitarist called Bert Weeden, a disc jockey. It 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:39.760 was very level c but I got an office from 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:43.120 him for four pounds a week and all no Andrew 1:20:43.120 --> 1:20:46.360 the long distance phone calls. All of the country was 1:20:46.400 --> 1:20:49.320 all about the long distance phone calls. And because he 1:20:49.400 --> 1:20:53.200 was an agent and I just did mouth um, I 1:20:53.280 --> 1:20:56.519 actually probably would not have got the Rolling Stones if 1:20:56.520 --> 1:21:00.400 I hadn't made him the first partner I had in 1:21:00.439 --> 1:21:04.240 it before the Towers of Babel in America. Um, and 1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:07.639 he was became their agent. He became the co manager 1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:09.719 with me and the age. So when they were playing 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:12.920 the club, they didn't have an agent. Okay, somebody was. 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:16.519 You've got those two structures of England trad jazz is 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:20.080 poor relative skiffle. I mean, you know from the Billy 1:21:20.120 --> 1:21:22.920 Brag book, the history of how the Lonnie Donegan records 1:21:22.960 --> 1:21:28.400 came out of all of that stuff, and how the 1:21:28.479 --> 1:21:31.600 people who controlled the club circuits. I mean either the 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.719 promoters like Harold Pendleton Georgia with his sort of left 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:39.840 wing oasis that he would run um frowned on rhythm 1:21:39.920 --> 1:21:44.720 and blues. It was a poor relative, but it did 1:21:44.760 --> 1:21:48.519 seem to be attracting younger people than the traditional jazz 1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:52.840 bands like Humphrey Littleton and Chris barber Head. So it's 1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:55.160 a week later and you show up with at the 1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:57.880 gig and you tell the Stones what I now, show 1:21:57.920 --> 1:22:01.880 up with Eric Houston, and then we signed them and 1:22:01.960 --> 1:22:03.880 because of mine, and when you signed them, you literally 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:06.000 have a piece of paper. No, they came in the office. 1:22:06.000 --> 1:22:08.760 Brian was the leader, and so Brian would come in 1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:15.240 for the negotiations and Charlie and Bill had jobs. Um 1:22:15.400 --> 1:22:19.720 Mcinkeith didn't good and they would sit at Lion's Corner 1:22:19.760 --> 1:22:22.160 house on the corner of a couple of black teas, 1:22:22.200 --> 1:22:26.280 and wait for what Brian had determined with Eric and me, 1:22:26.439 --> 1:22:30.200 and and because of my knowledge of America through mainly 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:33.360 Jim Lee who had Chris Montez, but then Bob Crew 1:22:34.000 --> 1:22:37.000 and my knowledge of Phil Specter, we signed them for 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:40.559 the management and the records. Okay for those people who 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:43.080 don't know, And this is becomes very important, especially in 1:22:43.120 --> 1:22:46.600 the history of the Rolling Stones. It was licensed to 1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:50.920 the label. You owned the records. Anybody else in the 1:22:51.000 --> 1:22:54.200 UK have that deal at that time they did, so 1:22:54.320 --> 1:22:57.960 it was not incredibly uncommon. No, but because it was 1:22:58.000 --> 1:23:01.519 incredibly uncommon, but because I was younger than all the rest, 1:23:01.720 --> 1:23:04.400 it would get noticed. All the rest. You had a 1:23:04.439 --> 1:23:09.360 pecking order of Joe Meek, who did tell star Um 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:12.920 who you could call, and he cut acts for Robert 1:23:12.920 --> 1:23:16.320 Stigwood like John Layton and things like that. They did it, 1:23:16.640 --> 1:23:18.760 but they had actually learned it from a guy called 1:23:18.760 --> 1:23:22.759 Dennis Preston who had He'll be in that book Landsdown Studios, 1:23:22.880 --> 1:23:26.479 who did Chris Barber. Therefore Lonnie Donegan. They were all 1:23:26.520 --> 1:23:30.559 independent records. So once again you became a student of 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:33.000 the business. How did you know this? When I would 1:23:33.080 --> 1:23:37.080 be doing pr for anybody from like Johnny Tillottson or 1:23:37.160 --> 1:23:43.400 Brian Highland or ah Sam Cook and little Richard. I 1:23:43.439 --> 1:23:46.679 wanted to meet the managers man because they would travel 1:23:46.840 --> 1:23:50.280 with the acts and you just you know, I mean 1:23:51.120 --> 1:23:55.080 America was it for me from Saul Bass? The posters 1:23:55.080 --> 1:23:57.519 for those awful out of Parmeger films. The posters were 1:23:57.520 --> 1:23:59.839 better than the films. And you know, I mean anything 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:04.759 ammunition and the knowledge that comes in all the instinct 1:24:04.880 --> 1:24:08.280 that gets developed by studying these things. You don't don't 1:24:08.280 --> 1:24:10.760 actually have to look at a book and read it 1:24:11.479 --> 1:24:13.400 and get what's in the book. You just have to 1:24:13.479 --> 1:24:16.840 hold it and well, this is very well articulated. This 1:24:16.880 --> 1:24:19.200 is what people don't understand. They go to music schools, 1:24:19.200 --> 1:24:21.880 they think they can learn it. It's more about your sensibility. 1:24:22.400 --> 1:24:25.680 Match with a passion and eyes wide open, you can 1:24:25.800 --> 1:24:29.120 feel something. Especially all the greats in the music business 1:24:29.160 --> 1:24:32.280 are not educated people. There are people who operate on field. 1:24:33.040 --> 1:24:35.960 So in any event, you make a deal with the stones, 1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:39.720 and how long is that deal is supposed to run? Oh, 1:24:40.000 --> 1:24:42.360 three or five years? Three to three? You have a 1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:45.280 lawyer who are or Easton just takes out the usual 1:24:45.320 --> 1:24:49.280 piece of and they say they're in okay, and you 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:51.800 say you're gonna make them and what is the next step. 1:24:51.960 --> 1:24:54.839 The next step is the pub called the weather be Arms. 1:24:54.880 --> 1:24:58.719 They used to rehearse. And I just said to me, listen, 1:24:59.320 --> 1:25:02.680 pick out five things that you think of the most commercial. 1:25:04.040 --> 1:25:06.880 Plays them to me, and then we'll pick three and 1:25:06.880 --> 1:25:10.360 we'll go and record them. And so there was Come On, 1:25:10.400 --> 1:25:12.760 which was a Chuck Berry b side Willie Dixon thing 1:25:12.800 --> 1:25:14.639 I want to be Loved. I can't remember the third thing. 1:25:15.360 --> 1:25:18.080 And so we went to Olympic Studios, which at that 1:25:18.120 --> 1:25:21.639 time was near Marble Arch and it was a four 1:25:21.720 --> 1:25:28.439 track studio with whose money? Eric's, yeah, you don't have 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:30.120 any I don't have any money, Dar, And if I 1:25:30.120 --> 1:25:32.320 did it, I'd be wearing it. But let's be clear. 1:25:32.600 --> 1:25:38.280 You were the producer, for want of a better word, Okay, Well, 1:25:38.520 --> 1:25:41.160 what would you consider your role to be at those No, 1:25:41.240 --> 1:25:44.960 I do concern I am the only one if they 1:25:45.000 --> 1:25:48.360 had gone through the system. Where As you know from 1:25:48.400 --> 1:25:51.160 the pictures you've seen from Abbey Row, you everybody gets 1:25:51.200 --> 1:25:53.400 what they deserved. The Beatles got what they should have 1:25:53.760 --> 1:25:55.960 In other words, they've got a very competent George Martin, 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:59.080 who had a musical experience as well. The engineer, Norman 1:25:59.120 --> 1:26:02.280 Smith knew about another kind of music, so all those 1:26:02.280 --> 1:26:04.519 elements could come into the Beatles when they needed it. 1:26:04.960 --> 1:26:07.280 What we had to get away from was the fact 1:26:07.320 --> 1:26:10.559 that acts before us, the English rockers and things like that, 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:13.600 you'd have a three hour session. They wouldn't even let 1:26:13.640 --> 1:26:16.760 him listen back to what they've done. You know. It 1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:20.799 was just run like a shop steward, like a union 1:26:20.880 --> 1:26:27.120 thing um. And the engineer was a guy called Roger Savage. 1:26:27.160 --> 1:26:29.640 They give me the kid an olympic um. We had 1:26:29.680 --> 1:26:34.200 the forty quid three hours, three hours are up at 1:26:34.240 --> 1:26:37.480 five to six, and I got no more money. Right? 1:26:38.160 --> 1:26:41.679 Recordings weren't that good? Right? I mean, but they weren't. 1:26:41.720 --> 1:26:44.160 They were less terrified with me than they would have 1:26:44.200 --> 1:26:47.240 been with a guy who might have been seven years older, 1:26:47.280 --> 1:26:49.800 who would have felt like fifty years old. Did you 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:55.080 give them any direction? No? Interestingly, when I eventually listened 1:26:55.080 --> 1:27:00.679 to the chuck Berry record, the vocals a spot, I mean, 1:27:00.840 --> 1:27:04.240 you know, I mean they you think, almost think that 1:27:04.320 --> 1:27:06.160 Mick was on the chuck Berry record sing in the 1:27:06.160 --> 1:27:10.439 backup right five six. I went, all right, that's it. 1:27:11.840 --> 1:27:14.960 Engineers says, well, we got to mix it, and I said, 1:27:15.000 --> 1:27:19.599 what's that And he explained to me about the four 1:27:19.680 --> 1:27:21.920 channels or the four tracks it was on. And my 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:24.120 attitude was if I'm not here, I don't have to 1:27:24.160 --> 1:27:26.639 pay for it. So I said, you do it. I'll 1:27:26.680 --> 1:27:30.920 come back in the morning. Um the and that was 1:27:30.960 --> 1:27:33.960 the first single. Then then Decker tried to fund me. Okay, well, well, 1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:36.200 well a little bit slower. So you cut these three 1:27:36.200 --> 1:27:40.519 tracks and then how does it become a single? What's 1:27:40.560 --> 1:27:45.840 the deal? Okay, we had gone to Decca because they 1:27:45.880 --> 1:27:49.320 turned down the Beatles and actually fact one of the 1:27:49.360 --> 1:27:51.559 A and R men, as you know, picked brian Pool 1:27:52.600 --> 1:27:55.880 and the Trammelas because it was nearer. It was Daggingham, 1:27:56.240 --> 1:28:00.240 it was it was nearer than the Beatles being in Liverpool. 1:28:00.680 --> 1:28:02.760 But anyway, Dick Roe was a very bright man, the 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:06.639 R man. There was no no He just said, yeah, 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:10.320 I'll take it right on the least deal. But they tried, 1:28:10.400 --> 1:28:12.120 as you know what I mean, for the sake of 1:28:12.160 --> 1:28:15.519 your viewers. The least deal is you know, you're got 1:28:15.520 --> 1:28:17.800 to get ten points or eight points to play with 1:28:17.920 --> 1:28:20.160 us opposed to three or four or two or three, 1:28:21.200 --> 1:28:24.200 and but he wanted to try and get them signed 1:28:24.400 --> 1:28:27.000 as a direct act, so he said, yeah, yeah, but 1:28:27.000 --> 1:28:29.920 the recording is not that good. We want to let 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:33.760 one of our producers have a crank at it. And 1:28:34.120 --> 1:28:37.479 they picked a guy who they were giving the gold 1:28:37.479 --> 1:28:39.840 Watch two because he delivered a couple of pop things 1:28:39.880 --> 1:28:44.120 to them from sixty two. Guy called Michael Barkley, who 1:28:44.160 --> 1:28:47.880 done Eden Kane, and oh god, I was at I'm going, 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:50.360 I mean you. I couldn't turn around to the Stones 1:28:50.400 --> 1:28:57.320 and say play badly. But my version was marginally better 1:28:57.439 --> 1:29:00.519 enough that they then accepted the least deal and we 1:29:00.520 --> 1:29:03.400 were off to the races. In the first track, does 1:29:03.400 --> 1:29:06.040 how well? In the marketplace, it would have only gone 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:07.840 to thirty eight, But I bought it from thirty eight 1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:11.760 to eighteen because you had forty five shops. It wasn't 1:29:11.760 --> 1:29:14.919 as company. It wasn't a simple and complicated as American Paola. 1:29:15.439 --> 1:29:18.160 You had forty five. You didn't you weren't greasing DJs. 1:29:19.240 --> 1:29:21.760 You had forty five shops that reported to the four 1:29:21.880 --> 1:29:25.280 musical newspapers, and all you had to do was go 1:29:25.520 --> 1:29:29.719 in and buy three to five singles at five shillings 1:29:29.720 --> 1:29:34.639 and sevenpence each um in those shops on a Friday 1:29:34.760 --> 1:29:37.840 or Saturday. You know, it's basically the trick is making 1:29:37.920 --> 1:29:40.040 the record company fall in love with you once when 1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:42.280 you signed with them, and twice when they shipped the record, 1:29:43.000 --> 1:29:46.120 and so the factories would go wow. We sold three 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:48.759 records in Wellingborough, we sold three records in nor Willing 1:29:48.760 --> 1:29:56.280 Garden City and the Rolling the Rolling Stones fans, the 1:29:56.320 --> 1:29:58.599 small volume that they were at the time, were still 1:29:58.680 --> 1:30:01.639 so devoted that they knew we didn't have the money 1:30:01.680 --> 1:30:04.200 anyway to beat. They don't worry about and we'll send 1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:06.080 you a postluder, No, don't worry about it. We'll buy 1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:10.080 the records and so um a record. It goingly got 1:30:10.080 --> 1:30:12.280 to eighteen for one week. But that was the first dent. 1:30:12.479 --> 1:30:15.479 That was the beginning and DECA was happy, yeah, and 1:30:15.560 --> 1:30:19.599 so then what what happens after that? Then we have 1:30:19.760 --> 1:30:24.000 to find a follow up, And the R and B 1:30:25.439 --> 1:30:29.840 basket of potential songs is getting smaller as people like 1:30:30.200 --> 1:30:33.280 the Searchers are doing sweets for My Sweet or the 1:30:33.320 --> 1:30:35.800 B side of the or once thing, which was amazing, 1:30:36.080 --> 1:30:38.519 you know, I mean in where you're finding your songs, 1:30:39.439 --> 1:30:42.519 Don't throw your Love Away. It was a b side 1:30:42.560 --> 1:30:46.320 by the or once and we had nothing to record, 1:30:46.520 --> 1:30:50.280 and one song that I suggested to them, which they 1:30:50.320 --> 1:30:52.840 never got to actually working on, was the James Ray 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:55.280 thing if you've got to make a fool of somebody, 1:30:55.479 --> 1:30:58.000 but somebody said no. Andrew Freddie and the Dreamers did 1:30:58.040 --> 1:31:01.560 that last week, so that was gone and it was 1:31:01.600 --> 1:31:05.160 getting and we were at a rehearsal studio in Great 1:31:05.160 --> 1:31:10.040 Newport Street off Leicester Square, and I just kind of think, 1:31:10.360 --> 1:31:13.360 if you're not contributing to the energy of the room, 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:15.920 leave and go to the bathroom and you're gonna cup 1:31:15.920 --> 1:31:20.519 of tea, do something like that. So I leave, I 1:31:20.640 --> 1:31:25.000 turn right as opposed to left, and I end up 1:31:25.200 --> 1:31:30.600 outside Leicester Square Tube station and getting out of a 1:31:30.720 --> 1:31:34.639 cab is John and Paul, John Lennon and Paul McCartney, 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:38.840 and as they knew me slightly from the months that 1:31:38.880 --> 1:31:42.880 we've been together, it was what's wrong, Andy, And I said, 1:31:42.880 --> 1:31:46.439 I haven't got a fucking song too record. With the 1:31:46.520 --> 1:31:51.360 Rolling Stones, Oh no problem. They were great hustlers and 1:31:51.360 --> 1:31:54.240 in those early, very early days, let's go backstop for 1:31:54.320 --> 1:31:57.360 a second. With the Beatles, have made it without Brian Epstein. No, 1:31:58.640 --> 1:32:00.640 I mean, look at the pattern. What will they be? 1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:04.559 They were backing Johnny Gentle for the guy called Larry 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:07.280 Pans who was the gay Colonel Tom Parker, with Billy Fury, 1:32:07.360 --> 1:32:10.200 Marty Wild, Joe Brown and all these acts. How would 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:14.840 they've made it? If? I mean, what would if Ed 1:32:14.880 --> 1:32:17.040 Sullivan hadn't been on holiday in Europe? Would he have 1:32:17.200 --> 1:32:22.280 known what anybody was talking about when he was offered 1:32:22.280 --> 1:32:24.439 the Beatles for the Ed Sullivan Show. But he had 1:32:24.479 --> 1:32:28.040 experienced it because on a holiday with his wife, they'd 1:32:28.040 --> 1:32:30.439 stopped in an airport and what is this pandemonium? Oh 1:32:30.520 --> 1:32:32.400 it's a group called the Beatles who are playing there. 1:32:32.439 --> 1:32:36.200 So these things are all destiny, right, So in anything 1:32:36.200 --> 1:32:39.800 you're saying they're greed hustlers, Yeah, but hustlers for what 1:32:40.160 --> 1:32:42.840 it's like as we were still getting out of the 1:32:42.960 --> 1:32:45.559 trap that had been set for us by losing or 1:32:45.600 --> 1:32:48.519 winning World War two. The future if you're not if 1:32:48.520 --> 1:32:53.840 you weren't part of the elite anyway, right, um, you're 1:32:55.000 --> 1:32:57.160 any day you stay you know, Oh this is still 1:32:57.200 --> 1:33:00.280 working and it was right in America changed it. But 1:33:00.400 --> 1:33:03.880 to see then, because of our we all idolized America. 1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:05.360 And you know, I could sit and look at a 1:33:05.400 --> 1:33:10.160 forty five record and the credits or the nat ntoff 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:13.320 notes for Dylan or whatever, and just this could this 1:33:13.360 --> 1:33:15.720 would just go on forever. You know, it would just 1:33:15.800 --> 1:33:19.720 inspire you. So they hustled to see their names on 1:33:19.840 --> 1:33:24.040 records as writers of records. That wouldn't They weren't necessarily 1:33:24.080 --> 1:33:25.960 going to pay the rent. That was not the point. 1:33:26.920 --> 1:33:29.720 I mean, as you know and have said often, if 1:33:29.720 --> 1:33:33.719 you come in into this for the money, right, that's 1:33:33.760 --> 1:33:36.479 not quite enough. If you turn out to be good 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:41.000 at money, God bless you, right. And so they come down. 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:47.240 I the moment I heard Brian Jones play the Bottleneck 1:33:48.160 --> 1:33:50.240 on this, I want to be a man. I just 1:33:50.320 --> 1:33:53.760 fucking died when we got to hit right, Okay, A 1:33:53.760 --> 1:33:56.280 little bit slo You run into them at the Lusts. 1:33:57.080 --> 1:33:59.000 So they're getting out of a cab. They have just 1:33:59.080 --> 1:34:03.760 won their first song writing so they're clairvoyantly tipsy, okay, 1:34:03.840 --> 1:34:06.599 and they literally come straight to the straight to the studio, 1:34:06.800 --> 1:34:08.960 not oh I'll be there and tomorrow, No, no, then, 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:12.600 and then they got a Nivea Novello Award, which is yours. 1:34:12.720 --> 1:34:19.960 They demonstrate the song and they pretend that, ah, they're 1:34:19.960 --> 1:34:23.080 finishing it in front of us. Ringo had recorded it 1:34:23.120 --> 1:34:30.840 ten days before, right, um, and I, oh, lordy, you know, 1:34:30.960 --> 1:34:33.479 I mean it was the next apparition after having heard 1:34:33.520 --> 1:34:35.679 them for the first time. So I didn't even bother 1:34:35.720 --> 1:34:38.879 to produce the record. I led Eric, I went to Paris. 1:34:39.200 --> 1:34:41.720 This is my second nervous breakdown because I wanted a 1:34:41.720 --> 1:34:46.160 pair of forty five pound butter leather boots from Pierre Cardin. 1:34:47.479 --> 1:34:50.920 That would solve my problem. I had had. You see, 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:53.400 when I worked from Mary quant I had had a 1:34:53.520 --> 1:34:56.639 photographer who was about fifteen years older than me. When 1:34:56.640 --> 1:34:59.599 I was seventeen at Mary quants say you know, Andrew, 1:34:59.640 --> 1:35:03.200 you're an acoholic, right, And I said, Terry, I don't 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:05.280 even don't know them. The photographer, I said, I don't 1:35:05.280 --> 1:35:10.960 even drink. He said no, but you've got the isms. Okay, um, 1:35:11.280 --> 1:35:15.320 and forty five pound boots are part of the isms. Okay, 1:35:15.320 --> 1:35:20.120 but you disappear just when the record is being made. Yeah, 1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:23.080 there's gonna be no problem, man, you know, I mean, 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:26.320 Eric could heard Feliciano could have done it. Oh, he 1:35:26.320 --> 1:35:28.080 could have done he could have done Feliciano could have 1:35:28.080 --> 1:35:31.160 done the video. It was that much of a breeze. 1:35:31.160 --> 1:35:34.760 I mean I heard it in the rehearsal room, um, 1:35:34.880 --> 1:35:37.800 and it was just magic. And how long did you 1:35:37.840 --> 1:35:40.559 go to France for four days? Okay, so you come 1:35:40.600 --> 1:35:44.960 back ready to work, ready to work, and Decca, here's 1:35:44.960 --> 1:35:48.040 the tracks. Excited they put it out and what Decca. 1:35:48.720 --> 1:35:51.519 The same way as when they tried to shaft me 1:35:51.960 --> 1:35:55.240 out of the licensing deal, they would have meetings at 1:35:55.280 --> 1:35:58.720 ten thirty every Tuesday morning where they would decide what 1:35:58.760 --> 1:36:01.320 they were taking, what they were putting out. So even 1:36:01.520 --> 1:36:04.600 it's still you couldn't call something I got a hit. No, 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:06.800 you would submit it and it would go into the 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:10.720 Tuesday morning A and R meeting and then they would 1:36:10.760 --> 1:36:14.360 call you back. It was all very corporate. I didn't 1:36:14.360 --> 1:36:16.559 see record untill I saw the boot of Sonny Bono's 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:21.280 car or Red or Buddha. Those people not put it 1:36:21.360 --> 1:36:24.840 the ones with Comma Sutra. But and then they would 1:36:24.840 --> 1:36:29.360 say we're releasing it on November. It was all very 1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:32.519 but just because this is interesting, how long afterwards cut 1:36:32.800 --> 1:36:39.719 did it come out? See cut in um August six 1:36:39.760 --> 1:36:42.920 weeks so it comes out you buy a hit? Or 1:36:42.960 --> 1:36:46.439 is it an immediate hit. Um, we buy it. It 1:36:46.520 --> 1:36:49.920 goes to number ten. You're on the way from eighteen 1:36:49.920 --> 1:36:57.200 to ten. That's right, Yes, indeed, Hi everyone, this is 1:36:57.240 --> 1:37:01.040 Bob Lefts. If you stumbled upon this podcast on iTunes 1:37:01.120 --> 1:37:04.760 or tune in, you may be wondering who is this guy. Well, 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:06.639 my story of the story of my blog, The left 1:37:06.640 --> 1:37:09.840 Sets Letter, was told in episode one. Please check it out. 1:37:10.120 --> 1:37:12.920 If you like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast 1:37:12.960 --> 1:37:16.639 today and you'll hear my interviews with songwriters, performers, music 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:21.240 industry and tech executives. First, also, I'm over the feedback. 1:37:21.240 --> 1:37:23.200 What do you like? What do you het? Email me 1:37:23.240 --> 1:37:26.519 at Bob at left sets dot com. And now more 1:37:26.600 --> 1:37:30.960 with Andrew lou Goldham. Now, in today's business, it's all 1:37:30.960 --> 1:37:33.759 about the live business. So as a result of selling 1:37:33.800 --> 1:37:37.719 those records, does that increase the gigs? Does that change nothing? 1:37:37.760 --> 1:37:40.000 It's all about the record back then, it's all about 1:37:40.040 --> 1:37:43.759 Remember we have only ten twelve years out of where 1:37:44.600 --> 1:37:51.360 the big sales thing of them is still sheet music. Wow, yeah, 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:54.080 I got you right. I mean, you know we're only 1:37:54.160 --> 1:37:58.280 fifteen years from the Moses with a piano on the back. 1:37:59.640 --> 1:38:02.719 Not I was raised, but where some of our other friends, 1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:05.840 whether Who the Who and people like that, where the 1:38:05.880 --> 1:38:08.200 guys would go down the street with an upright piano 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:10.719 on the back of the truck and be selling sheet 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:15.360 music because the family entertainment we hadn't reached the time. 1:38:16.360 --> 1:38:19.520 What we were reaching the time of the home entertainment 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:23.439 with the record player with that dropped the records and 1:38:23.680 --> 1:38:27.160 was like a piece of furniture exactly living room of consol. 1:38:27.439 --> 1:38:31.000 But that was only middle class people who could afford those. Um. 1:38:31.120 --> 1:38:34.880 Poor people were still the pubs, the pianos and let's 1:38:34.920 --> 1:38:41.360 get drunk singing this. So but in answer to the 1:38:41.360 --> 1:38:45.040 sheet music was the one way to increase your gig 1:38:45.080 --> 1:38:48.040 money in that as as you know in England, there 1:38:48.080 --> 1:38:50.320 was an American hit like Unchained Melody, there would be 1:38:50.360 --> 1:38:53.240 the American L. L. Hibbler version, then there will be 1:38:53.320 --> 1:38:56.559 probably two English cover versions. And it's the one who 1:38:56.600 --> 1:38:58.760 got on the sheet music who could probably get five 1:38:58.760 --> 1:39:04.400 pounds more for a gig. Okay, okay, So I want 1:39:04.400 --> 1:39:06.360 to be your man is out It has a level 1:39:06.360 --> 1:39:09.040 of success. Yes, do you know where you're going from there? 1:39:09.120 --> 1:39:11.720 No idea? So what do you end up doing? I 1:39:11.920 --> 1:39:17.439 by then, by that time um sharing rooms with the 1:39:18.080 --> 1:39:24.920 Mecan Keith and living with them, and um he Keith 1:39:25.040 --> 1:39:28.360 one day, Oh, now I know we need songs, right, 1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:34.040 so you know you have to write. And my attitude was, well, 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:36.840 if Mick Jagger can write postcards to his girlfriend and 1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:39.000 his mother when they're doing the book because they burned 1:39:39.000 --> 1:39:41.200 out to playing ballrooms as opposed to just R and 1:39:41.240 --> 1:39:45.240 B clubs and ballrooms are on your way to being 1:39:45.360 --> 1:39:48.200 booked on a cinema tour. And the first cinema tour 1:39:48.600 --> 1:39:52.280 that they actually did was in October November as I 1:39:52.320 --> 1:39:54.080 want to be a man went up the charts for 1:39:54.280 --> 1:39:58.040 Don Arden, for Sharon's father, with the Evely Brothers, Bo 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:01.320 Diddley and bottom of a Bill with the Rolling Sterns, 1:40:01.360 --> 1:40:07.000 Mackey Most And how was reception on that tour? It was, 1:40:07.200 --> 1:40:11.600 Keith says it was university. I didn't. I didn't. I 1:40:11.640 --> 1:40:13.879 didn't go to the places where I knew they wouldn't 1:40:14.080 --> 1:40:19.599 do well. Yeah, um, you don't need to see that, Okay, 1:40:19.840 --> 1:40:22.960 they can learn their jobs exactly. And you know you're 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:25.120 on the road with Boa Didley, with the Jerome and 1:40:25.160 --> 1:40:27.840 the Duchess, the Evely brothers who have basically got the 1:40:27.960 --> 1:40:30.679 semblance of the crickets back in them. And that's almost 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:33.360 the first time we've ever heard somebody about to duplicate 1:40:33.400 --> 1:40:37.639 the records on stage. So it's it is university and 1:40:38.479 --> 1:40:42.880 it um in in the place that we were living 1:40:42.920 --> 1:40:47.800 in Wilston Um. I would tell them I've got to 1:40:47.840 --> 1:40:50.040 write a song. And now, of course the constitute of 1:40:50.120 --> 1:40:52.880 time goes. I locked him up. I didn't lock him up. 1:40:53.000 --> 1:40:57.840 I just would take gather my laundry and go. I 1:40:57.840 --> 1:40:59.360 was going to walk back to my mother's house. Was 1:40:59.400 --> 1:41:03.600 still doing my elning right, you know, And then I 1:41:03.600 --> 1:41:07.439 would slam the front door and pretend I've left, and 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:10.120 I would creep back up the stairs at thirty three 1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:13.240 makes free road to see if they were actually writing. 1:41:14.280 --> 1:41:16.960 Oh yeah, and they were all it was awful, you know, 1:41:17.000 --> 1:41:21.000 because the first stuff you write is suppy. It's always awful. 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:24.360 And so what is the first thing they write that 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:28.120 you decide is worthy of recording, Well, it's something they 1:41:28.160 --> 1:41:31.920 didn't write. I'm such a believer that when I heard 1:41:32.000 --> 1:41:34.240 Keith just with the acoustic doing what was the B 1:41:34.400 --> 1:41:39.679 side again? Not fade away to me? Written it? Okay, 1:41:39.680 --> 1:41:42.400 then how does it tell me? Come about around the 1:41:42.400 --> 1:41:45.479 same time, and you've got this wonderful process of where 1:41:45.840 --> 1:41:50.200 as they start to write, it's also got to pass 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:52.800 muster with the rest of the band, even when we'd 1:41:52.800 --> 1:41:55.519 already got to hear to l a like with some 1:41:55.600 --> 1:41:57.600 of the songs like I'm Free or the singer not 1:41:57.720 --> 1:42:01.040 the song when they run it down in front of 1:42:01.080 --> 1:42:03.519 the other three stones, you don't know what I'm just 1:42:03.520 --> 1:42:06.120 gonna say. Oh fuck, you know you don't think we're 1:42:06.120 --> 1:42:09.559 gonna play that piece of ship, do you? But you know? 1:42:09.680 --> 1:42:11.680 But staying with tell me for a second, that was 1:42:11.760 --> 1:42:15.080 the song that closed me, not fatal great, right? I 1:42:15.160 --> 1:42:19.240 remember them being on some New York TV show. Yes, 1:42:19.320 --> 1:42:23.320 that's exactly before uh with Bill Wyman. You know with 1:42:23.400 --> 1:42:27.320 the guitar they based almost vertical, etcetera. So you know 1:42:27.360 --> 1:42:30.960 why he did that. So he could stand on stage 1:42:31.640 --> 1:42:34.519 as he wasn't moving, call out his room numbers, mouths 1:42:34.640 --> 1:42:38.720 his room number. I'm just done for those people don't know. 1:42:39.360 --> 1:42:43.960 He has almost a photographic memory and supposedly has had it, 1:42:44.040 --> 1:42:46.240 slept with more women than Mick and Keith could even dream. 1:42:47.439 --> 1:42:53.559 And what do you think his magic was? You know, 1:42:53.600 --> 1:42:57.519 it didn't affect me, So the other thing we would 1:42:57.520 --> 1:43:00.760 we were miss assistance. That's why question. You know, there's 1:43:00.760 --> 1:43:03.080 certain people you ask enough times, you know the door opens. 1:43:03.439 --> 1:43:08.320 You did take Ian Stewart, Austine, can you walk us 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:14.120 through what your flaw process was there? That? How do 1:43:14.200 --> 1:43:18.720 you know any of the Hurricanes apart from Johnny? Okay? 1:43:19.479 --> 1:43:23.559 Um four with the Beatles and the Shadows, because then 1:43:24.200 --> 1:43:26.760 the prototype of all this is the cliff Ridges back 1:43:26.800 --> 1:43:30.280 in group in terms of electric bass, in terms of 1:43:30.320 --> 1:43:36.040 the lead guitar, Hank B. Marvin, that's the benchmark cliff 1:43:36.080 --> 1:43:39.280 Ridge and the Shadows, the Shadows. Okay, therefore why were 1:43:39.320 --> 1:43:44.320 the Beatles in suits? Because the Shadows were the example. 1:43:44.560 --> 1:43:47.800 I didn't believe the public could count to five, but 1:43:47.840 --> 1:43:53.639 you already had five. Six thinks that thank you correcting me? Yes, 1:43:53.720 --> 1:43:58.280 six was now putting you in Johnny in the Hurricanes territory. 1:43:58.560 --> 1:44:02.320 And apart from that, he looked like William Bendicks or 1:44:02.400 --> 1:44:06.599 Neville Brand, which was not acceptable. Ironically, you know, twenty 1:44:06.680 --> 1:44:08.680 years later if you put a picture of ste and 1:44:08.720 --> 1:44:13.439 Morrissey up, it's the same thing. But when you tell 1:44:13.479 --> 1:44:16.760 the band this, what do they say, Well, you've got 1:44:16.800 --> 1:44:20.800 this wonderful thing with time that I can now say. 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:22.840 I mean, for example, when I want to be your 1:44:22.840 --> 1:44:25.400 Man came out, there was no oh, this group was 1:44:25.439 --> 1:44:27.400 against the beat or so you know, I think there 1:44:27.439 --> 1:44:30.360 was none of that. That's part of Keith's rotation of 1:44:30.600 --> 1:44:33.600 Andrew knew that you know, we were going to be 1:44:33.680 --> 1:44:35.679 the opposite of the beat. Was no, I didn't look 1:44:35.720 --> 1:44:38.400 at this way. Can you imagine if I was having 1:44:38.439 --> 1:44:41.960 to talk to the Rolling Stones and I said, your 1:44:41.960 --> 1:44:45.360 greatest ability is that you unlike another group? I mean, 1:44:45.360 --> 1:44:50.719 what is that saying? That's a negative? Exactly? And within Stewart, 1:44:52.200 --> 1:44:54.240 all I can say is the Stones didn't stop me 1:44:56.240 --> 1:44:59.679 because they were that hungry for success. That's their identity. 1:45:00.720 --> 1:45:05.080 Um I think the real hunger came after America, but 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:09.320 probably as a result of Alan Klein. But we can 1:45:09.360 --> 1:45:13.479 get to that. Um it. I don't know, you know, 1:45:13.640 --> 1:45:17.160 it's like, remember, kids are cruel. It's Lord of the flies, 1:45:19.600 --> 1:45:22.120 and so I don't even think you're gonna apply Were 1:45:22.160 --> 1:45:26.040 they that ambitious or were they you know that It's 1:45:26.160 --> 1:45:29.240 just you don't think when you're that age that I 1:45:29.240 --> 1:45:33.559 could be like, you know, destroying somebody that you weren't. 1:45:33.760 --> 1:45:37.559 Because they needed the van which he drove, which he drove, 1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:40.720 and Brian was the only one who's the idiot of 1:45:40.760 --> 1:45:42.960 the day when he's you know, don't worry, Stu will 1:45:43.000 --> 1:45:44.679 take care of you for the rest of your life. 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:49.840 You'll be an equal partner with us, was he No, 1:45:50.080 --> 1:45:52.799 of course no, of course not. But but he lasted 1:45:52.800 --> 1:45:54.960 longer than me. I mean I did have a moment 1:45:55.040 --> 1:45:57.800 in the eighties because his wife used to work for me, 1:45:58.520 --> 1:46:00.400 and I was staying at their house and I'm in 1:46:00.400 --> 1:46:03.920 the house by myself and he comes in after having 1:46:03.920 --> 1:46:09.240 played golf with Glynn Jones, and I thought, well, if 1:46:09.280 --> 1:46:11.120 there's ever going to be a moment, this is it. 1:46:11.320 --> 1:46:16.519 But he knew how it had worked. He played piano 1:46:16.600 --> 1:46:18.360 on the you know it was he played all the 1:46:18.360 --> 1:46:21.080 blues pianos. He had the van that he had a 1:46:21.120 --> 1:46:23.000 wonderful run in the eighties tour when it was him 1:46:23.040 --> 1:46:25.599 and he and McLagan as the things. And he also 1:46:25.720 --> 1:46:29.040 was one of the few people who picked satisfaction. Okay, 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:31.920 let's not jump too far ahead, so not fate away 1:46:32.000 --> 1:46:34.040 comes out? How far does that go on the chart? 1:46:34.160 --> 1:46:38.040 Number four? Number four? And then okay, now we're over, 1:46:38.120 --> 1:46:40.320 now we're over buying. We don't have to buy it 1:46:40.360 --> 1:46:42.680 up the charts anymore. We also in the interim and 1:46:42.720 --> 1:46:46.240 had an EP, which is do you want to explain 1:46:46.240 --> 1:46:48.640 to them? Shall I think today they know what an 1:46:48.640 --> 1:46:52.240 EP is because EPs are down coming. Then an EP. 1:46:52.400 --> 1:46:54.360 There's only two acts in the world that had five 1:46:54.400 --> 1:46:56.640 songs instead of four on an EP, and it's US 1:46:56.680 --> 1:47:04.519 and Elvis Um Jail House Rock was and we um 1:47:04.680 --> 1:47:06.960 d P. We did a version of you Better Move 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:11.160 On the Arthur Alexander thing and that went between um, 1:47:11.680 --> 1:47:16.679 in between yeah, or we'll tell me's on the album, 1:47:17.600 --> 1:47:21.080 right um. So it's either after Not Fade Away or 1:47:21.120 --> 1:47:23.400 before Not Fade Away, probably after I think it's like 1:47:23.439 --> 1:47:26.280 April six that went to number eleven and the sixth 1:47:26.360 --> 1:47:28.599 in the singles charts, so they're paying a level double 1:47:28.640 --> 1:47:31.439 the price and it still goes to number eleven. And 1:47:31.479 --> 1:47:33.640 you better move on with Killer I mean him on 1:47:33.680 --> 1:47:36.760 a TV show with the French sweater and that to 1:47:36.840 --> 1:47:42.599 die for, right um. And next I'm in a panic. 1:47:43.520 --> 1:47:47.440 I don't know what to do except I decide maybe 1:47:48.320 --> 1:47:51.120 I can hold it back. That's while I've got to 1:47:51.240 --> 1:47:55.080 give yourself thinking time. So I decided to release Little 1:47:55.080 --> 1:47:57.840 Red Rooster I figured that will hold it, you know, 1:47:57.880 --> 1:48:00.559 I mean after you know what what we doing next, 1:48:01.040 --> 1:48:04.639 slow it down, have a difficult record. It was too late. 1:48:04.680 --> 1:48:06.559 There were a hundred orders of a hundred eighty thousand, 1:48:06.640 --> 1:48:08.280 and it went straight to number one the first week. 1:48:08.920 --> 1:48:12.040 Little Red Rooster flies right up the charts, contrary to 1:48:12.040 --> 1:48:18.400 your expectation, and you're panicking again. No, got used to it. Okay, 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:22.280 exposure therapy. So what was the move after a Little 1:48:22.320 --> 1:48:34.719 Red Rooster? Uh? Where? Now starting to deal with America? Now? 1:48:34.800 --> 1:48:36.800 Are you pushing to get in the door. Are they 1:48:36.920 --> 1:48:40.360 clamoring to have you come? No, nobody's clamoring at all. 1:48:40.479 --> 1:48:43.680 I mean we were worse than the sex pistols, you know. 1:48:43.720 --> 1:48:46.559 I mean you had a core following, most of whom 1:48:46.640 --> 1:48:52.479 are following you because nobody else is well articulated. And 1:48:53.000 --> 1:48:58.360 in some instances the promoters didn't show. I mean, we're 1:48:58.400 --> 1:49:01.000 playing in Sacramento. The prom that doesn't show. I don't 1:49:01.040 --> 1:49:03.920 know whether they went off with the money. We played 1:49:03.920 --> 1:49:07.080 about ten dates in Texas. We're playing with Bobby V 1:49:07.240 --> 1:49:11.360 and Diane Renee and some performing seals at a state fair. 1:49:12.320 --> 1:49:14.160 When you see that the promoter doesn't sure, I mean 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:16.280 you get to the gig and there's nobody there, well 1:49:16.360 --> 1:49:20.240 that the actual promoter, your local Bill Graham has decided 1:49:20.400 --> 1:49:22.680 it's not to turn up. So we left in the 1:49:22.720 --> 1:49:25.679 hands of assistance or what a lot of the gigs 1:49:26.560 --> 1:49:30.160 I mean we did okay in say Chicago, or okay 1:49:30.200 --> 1:49:34.040 with said Bernstein in New York. But once you got 1:49:34.080 --> 1:49:38.320 to the b places, nobody knew, nobody cared, nobody showed up, 1:49:38.360 --> 1:49:43.760 including the promoter. So there was no infrastructure today. And 1:49:43.840 --> 1:49:46.720 how do you get the television gigs through? We were 1:49:46.760 --> 1:49:50.439 with g c M. That's an agency's an agency and 1:49:50.520 --> 1:49:53.559 they so we would do Clay Cole. I'd rather done 1:49:53.640 --> 1:49:57.840 Joe Pine. You know, I don't think what's my audiences, 1:49:57.960 --> 1:50:03.880 Joel Pie? But keep going well okay? Um? And because 1:50:03.920 --> 1:50:06.920 of I had done PR, made a point of doing 1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:11.040 PR for Phil Specter in around the time of Not 1:50:11.080 --> 1:50:13.320 Fade Away. So that's like he came to England like 1:50:13.439 --> 1:50:17.280 February of sixty four, right and went back on the 1:50:17.280 --> 1:50:22.040 plane with the Beatles. He arrived on the plane with 1:50:22.120 --> 1:50:25.200 them in jfk or than Kennedy idle world what it 1:50:25.320 --> 1:50:28.800 was right right? And um he was at the Not 1:50:28.840 --> 1:50:33.559 Fade Away session he was your note, did he weigh in? 1:50:34.000 --> 1:50:36.920 He played the miracles? And did he tell you how 1:50:36.960 --> 1:50:41.800 to record it? No? I mean it's a mono. Studios 1:50:42.840 --> 1:50:45.640 have to ask interacting with Phil at that time it 1:50:45.720 --> 1:50:48.479 was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Is this This 1:50:48.560 --> 1:50:52.760 is the defining time for Phil Specter's life? Is the 1:50:52.840 --> 1:50:56.040 article that Tom Wolfe wrote about And he then decided 1:50:56.120 --> 1:50:58.920 that's who he was, and that was the beginning of 1:50:59.600 --> 1:51:02.680 everything else. I don't really think River Deep, Mountain High 1:51:02.800 --> 1:51:04.840 not going to you know, he's he was already nuts, 1:51:05.360 --> 1:51:07.679 you know. I mean it went to number one in England. 1:51:07.680 --> 1:51:09.200 You grab what you can so and he went to 1:51:09.280 --> 1:51:13.240 number ninety in America. Fuck it, Um, he was just 1:51:13.560 --> 1:51:19.000 a pleasure. He had a gleam in his eye that 1:51:19.200 --> 1:51:23.519 I didn't see again until the last prison picture in 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:26.960 that whatever the medication he's on now it's working. And 1:51:27.360 --> 1:51:30.280 there was a picture out of him. Remember we weren't there, 1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:35.040 you mean, in his so called castle. We weren't there 1:51:35.120 --> 1:51:40.040 when it happened. And you're saying, you're implying what I'm 1:51:40.080 --> 1:51:43.760 implying that the same as armad Urgin. As a certain age, 1:51:43.760 --> 1:51:48.679 you stopped going out and you can all right, Well, 1:51:48.800 --> 1:51:51.439 when you go out at that age, what you're going 1:51:51.520 --> 1:51:56.240 to end up with is troubled to start with. Well 1:51:56.320 --> 1:51:58.680 armed still went out to a good degree. Okay, yes, 1:51:58.720 --> 1:52:01.320 he certainly did went and he shouldn't have gone down 1:52:01.320 --> 1:52:04.160 those final steps at the Beacon and into a room 1:52:04.200 --> 1:52:09.080 with Keith. Well, okay, we can rewrite history. I mean, 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:10.840 we could try to change history, but let's go on. 1:52:12.120 --> 1:52:14.519 That's what I meant. I'm trying to say myself. No, no, 1:52:14.640 --> 1:52:16.920 that that's not that I misspoke. What I mean is, 1:52:17.360 --> 1:52:18.600 you know, it would be great if he didn't go 1:52:18.640 --> 1:52:21.320 down those stairs, but he did. He did. Is my point, 1:52:21.640 --> 1:52:23.960 Not that I'm saying that the facts are not correct. 1:52:24.280 --> 1:52:32.120 What I'm saying though, Okay, Okay, he was giving um 1:52:32.280 --> 1:52:36.280 he hadn't closed up. Now, when the stones are on 1:52:36.320 --> 1:52:38.360 tour in America, is that also when they go into 1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:43.280 chess studios? James was not fight away too? Really, yeah, 1:52:43.560 --> 1:52:46.519 I called James j Pittney was in Paris. We had 1:52:46.600 --> 1:52:50.200 done we making Keith wrote the follow up to twenty 1:52:50.200 --> 1:52:52.599 four US to tell Usa, which was only really a hit, 1:52:52.720 --> 1:52:55.080 only went to fifty six here in England. It went 1:52:55.160 --> 1:52:57.519 just went top ten. So that was their first top 1:52:57.520 --> 1:53:01.320 ten song as writers. Then came Mary and Faithful and 1:53:01.560 --> 1:53:05.040 Pittney was in Paris and the Not Fadeaway session was 1:53:05.080 --> 1:53:09.200 going very, very badly. Because when you've heard something in 1:53:09.240 --> 1:53:12.360 a room, like in the room that I lived with Keith, 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:17.160 when you've heard a song someone play your room, play 1:53:17.200 --> 1:53:18.720 play to you in a room and you hear the 1:53:18.760 --> 1:53:24.679 whole thing. Now you've got to go and get it right, um. 1:53:24.760 --> 1:53:30.920 And it was not going well. And in this time, 1:53:31.040 --> 1:53:33.760 this time, for once, an audience helped get it to 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:36.120 the point. Normally, an audience in the studio fucking kills 1:53:36.160 --> 1:53:39.640 it right. So you got Pittney come in with Brandy 1:53:40.040 --> 1:53:42.920 Prospect to come in in a red corduroy coat and 1:53:43.680 --> 1:53:47.080 he played the maracas. Two of the Hollies were there, 1:53:48.840 --> 1:53:51.360 and Peter Meaden, who, as you know for five minutes, 1:53:51.600 --> 1:53:53.760 was the first manager of the Who before Cat Lamber 1:53:53.800 --> 1:53:56.960 and Christa. So there was a cheerleading section in this 1:53:57.080 --> 1:54:02.040 little room that's about the size. So it's room sound 1:54:02.120 --> 1:54:04.519 that makes the record. How long did it like? Tell 1:54:04.560 --> 1:54:07.120 Me Free you Love tell Me? The reason the guitar 1:54:07.240 --> 1:54:10.800 sounds so great is because he's leaking into Charlie's bass. Drum. 1:54:10.960 --> 1:54:12.280 How long did it take you to get in our 1:54:12.320 --> 1:54:17.840 feet away? Two else? Which is a long time? Right, 1:54:17.880 --> 1:54:23.000 And there was so relieved that making seriously, Mick and 1:54:23.120 --> 1:54:28.040 Specter go outside and sit on the staircase and they 1:54:28.080 --> 1:54:34.280 come up with a little by little. So you tour America, 1:54:34.440 --> 1:54:37.800 you mentioned satisfaction. How do satisfaction come to be? He 1:54:37.800 --> 1:54:42.400 wrote it? Actually, Keith wrote it in the Scientology building 1:54:42.400 --> 1:54:46.280 in clear Water. Now the rumor is that he woke 1:54:46.360 --> 1:54:47.680 up in the middle of the night and sung it 1:54:47.720 --> 1:54:49.960 into his tape recorders. He did, that is true. Yeah, 1:54:50.320 --> 1:54:53.080 And the scientologists supposedly had the room, the whole floor 1:54:53.120 --> 1:54:57.280 exercised too, to get rid of that whatever, so that 1:54:57.640 --> 1:55:01.680 we never had another satisfaction. So but the one amazing 1:55:01.720 --> 1:55:05.400 thing about Satisfaction is brilliant as that record is with 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:09.600 the iconic sound. He cannot play it live. And I 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:14.880 will tell you why. Okay, to start with, we'd attempted. Okay, 1:55:14.960 --> 1:55:16.920 at the end of the first tour. The first tour 1:55:17.000 --> 1:55:20.440 was basically so fucking disastrous, right because we'd ended up 1:55:20.440 --> 1:55:22.280 in Texas. You know you don't we're ending on a 1:55:22.320 --> 1:55:27.080 bummer with bby V and the Seals, right, um, and 1:55:27.720 --> 1:55:32.760 I called Phil and I mean, I don't know why 1:55:32.800 --> 1:55:34.760 I didn't do it myself, but I asked him to 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:39.240 do it. Get us into Chess studios because I need 1:55:39.280 --> 1:55:42.000 them going back to England with a smile on their faces. 1:55:42.480 --> 1:55:47.040 Can't have this. It was all your idea. And we 1:55:47.160 --> 1:55:50.160 go into Chess and they do thirteen things in two days, 1:55:50.200 --> 1:55:53.440 including it's all over now. Because Murray the k had 1:55:53.480 --> 1:55:56.880 at a party of Bob Cruz had put the Valentino's 1:55:56.920 --> 1:55:59.840 record in my hand and said, Andy, if you cut 1:56:00.160 --> 1:56:02.720 with the boys, because he was the sixth Stone as 1:56:02.720 --> 1:56:05.360 well as the fifth beatle Um, you'll have a hit. 1:56:05.640 --> 1:56:08.640 And he was right right, and thirteen other things in 1:56:08.680 --> 1:56:10.800 case of the Highway, all those kind of things. And 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:15.120 we did try satisfaction. Oh really, yeah, don't ask me 1:56:15.160 --> 1:56:17.360 where the tapes are. Abco don't have them, The Stones 1:56:17.400 --> 1:56:24.200 don't have them. They're gone, right um. And it sounds 1:56:24.280 --> 1:56:28.560 like to me it sounded like the rooftop Singers, which 1:56:28.600 --> 1:56:32.680 of course is not satisfaction. But it's got that thing. 1:56:34.080 --> 1:56:36.160 So we get to l a but and very this 1:56:36.240 --> 1:56:38.960 is the only time that in my history, in my 1:56:39.080 --> 1:56:43.240 time with them, that we tried to cut something again. 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:47.480 There was no nothing else. Everything else was done, done, 1:56:47.520 --> 1:56:50.920 no more, you know, no returning to anything. And Jack 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:55.760 Nisim whom we knew through Sonny Bernard, how did you 1:56:55.760 --> 1:57:01.040 know Sonny Berna through Phil Specter and Aspector sent Sonny 1:57:01.120 --> 1:57:05.160 Bono to meet us at the airport. Okay, it's wonderful 1:57:05.280 --> 1:57:07.720 the car the first time we saw records, the Caesar 1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:11.000 and clear records in the trunk. You didn't see records 1:57:11.000 --> 1:57:15.440 in England, right, What do you mean you didn't see records. Well, 1:57:15.600 --> 1:57:17.400 you know they could have been a Decca if you 1:57:17.440 --> 1:57:20.720 went had to go to Decca. You never saw the factory. 1:57:20.760 --> 1:57:25.000 You know, they could have been doing baked beans, right, Um, 1:57:25.160 --> 1:57:30.960 and uh, we're in the middle. You know, most songs 1:57:31.040 --> 1:57:34.120 got twenty minutes, forty minutes to take the shape they 1:57:34.160 --> 1:57:38.120 were going to take. And Jack Nichi, well I communicated 1:57:38.160 --> 1:57:42.800 with you about this. Um took Keith down on one 1:57:42.840 --> 1:57:45.200 of the shops on sunset because we're recording it on 1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:49.680 sunset neither and he comes back to the first box 1:57:51.200 --> 1:57:56.120 just in time. Serendipitous. Yeah, and as you as you know, 1:57:57.240 --> 1:58:01.040 this was not New sixty two sixty three Hodges and 1:58:01.080 --> 1:58:04.760 Frankie Lane with Jack when jack NISI mean doing arrangements 1:58:04.760 --> 1:58:06.760 and either they couldn't afford the horn section or whatever. 1:58:06.800 --> 1:58:10.520 He comes to fuss right, sounding more like muted trumbones 1:58:10.520 --> 1:58:15.480 and things, and Keate, of course, since then has gone own. Man. 1:58:15.600 --> 1:58:18.240 You know, like the record wasn't finished. I was going 1:58:18.280 --> 1:58:21.840 to do horns with what Keith. We weren't even meant 1:58:21.840 --> 1:58:24.960 to be recording in America, let alone bringing union horn 1:58:25.040 --> 1:58:28.280 sections in. Okay, So he comes back with the fuzz 1:58:28.360 --> 1:58:30.960 box and plugging, and the record just comes together that 1:58:31.080 --> 1:58:34.200 it gets made. Okay, But to your point of why 1:58:34.280 --> 1:58:38.800 it's not good live, it's a difficult song to sing. 1:58:39.200 --> 1:58:42.960 And so what I did was with Brian and Keith 1:58:43.240 --> 1:58:48.120 put in a huge bed of acoustics that gave the 1:58:48.320 --> 1:58:52.480 voice somewhere to land that once it had landed, I 1:58:52.600 --> 1:58:57.200 then took them down from ten volume down to three. Wow. 1:58:59.400 --> 1:59:00.880 I mean so he in other words, is you know 1:59:01.000 --> 1:59:04.600 he's singing the verses like a ballad. I can't do 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:09.000 that on stage because there's no there's no acoustic guitars 1:59:09.160 --> 1:59:13.320 underlining it. Okay, you cut satisfaction, do you immediately know 1:59:13.400 --> 1:59:16.160 you have a worldwide yes? And how long until it 1:59:16.200 --> 1:59:19.720 comes out? It comes out in America first, which was 1:59:19.760 --> 1:59:27.280 slightly offensive at the time to England, but it did. Um, 1:59:27.400 --> 1:59:29.920 you just knew. I mean, it's like, but that's what 1:59:30.000 --> 1:59:32.000 I tell people. People say, you know that when you 1:59:32.160 --> 1:59:35.080 achieve excellence, you know there's a smile on your face. 1:59:35.520 --> 1:59:39.000 That's it. Well, because it's actually having the appeal to 1:59:39.040 --> 1:59:40.880 you that a record you've loved that you've had nothing 1:59:40.880 --> 1:59:43.560 to do with, you know what I mean, it's it's 1:59:43.600 --> 1:59:46.920 on that level pretty previously records, whether it's Cathy's Clown 1:59:47.000 --> 1:59:49.200 or whatever it is, or it's records that have changed 1:59:49.240 --> 1:59:51.400 your life, and then suddenly you're in the studio and 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.960 part of whatever has made it. That's it. So the 1:59:55.040 --> 1:59:57.520 record comes out, does it totally change the landscape of 1:59:57.560 --> 2:00:00.880 the band in the business? Yeah? Goes by then we're 2:00:00.920 --> 2:00:05.040 already seven or eight five no winners September August, September, 2:00:05.160 --> 2:00:08.240 already four or five months in with Alan Klein. So 2:00:08.520 --> 2:00:11.720 tell us how you hook up with a um. Alan 2:00:11.760 --> 2:00:16.000 Klein represented Mickey Most in England and you've got Mickey 2:00:16.000 --> 2:00:21.720 Most with uh, he's a millionaire, okay, sir? Right for 2:00:21.760 --> 2:00:27.400 a week at least, and I want I don't want 2:00:27.400 --> 2:00:29.440 to talk to Alan about the Stones. I want to 2:00:29.440 --> 2:00:33.360 talk to about I want about the media. I need 2:00:33.360 --> 2:00:36.880 money for it. Okay, just for those don't know. So 2:00:37.000 --> 2:00:39.360 the Stones are going and you decide to start Immediate 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:43.440 how Immediate Records? Because I was fed up dealing with 2:00:43.480 --> 2:00:45.920 the record companies. I was probably smoking too much. I 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:48.360 rather wanted to control my aunt destiny without having to 2:00:48.440 --> 2:00:50.360 leave the office. I didn't want to have to keep 2:00:50.400 --> 2:00:52.960 going and I was basically keep pitching. So you go 2:00:53.040 --> 2:00:56.160 to Alan looking for money, No, I go ask wanting 2:00:56.240 --> 2:01:00.280 to get distribution. That should I start the record company? Obviously, 2:01:00.320 --> 2:01:01.840 in the back of my mind, I had what else 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:03.240 can we do? But I'm not going to walk in 2:01:03.280 --> 2:01:06.760 and say I need help. But he smelled it. Um. 2:01:06.800 --> 2:01:10.520 He actually thought Eric Easton controlled everything, um because he'd 2:01:10.560 --> 2:01:12.840 done his homework, had been doing his homework already. I 2:01:12.920 --> 2:01:16.080 was saying I need um the same way as he 2:01:16.240 --> 2:01:19.880 placed Mickey Most so well, and they were well, you know, 2:01:19.960 --> 2:01:22.280 he didn't just do a deal for Mickey Most. They 2:01:22.320 --> 2:01:26.880 were placed hermis hermes was on MGM the Animals. He 2:01:27.040 --> 2:01:29.040 was stuck on that one because that had to end 2:01:29.120 --> 2:01:31.880 up on wherever it was originally, and then the other 2:01:31.960 --> 2:01:38.040 one he had three hits at once national teams. Yeah, okay, um, 2:01:38.080 --> 2:01:41.720 and I just wanted help that way. Eventually he started 2:01:41.720 --> 2:01:45.720 pitching me. I said, you better pitch making keys. If 2:01:45.760 --> 2:01:51.080 they say yes, we'll get into bed. And what was 2:01:51.160 --> 2:01:57.520 the goal of getting to bed? What was his sales pitch? Um, 2:01:57.600 --> 2:01:59.400 I don't remember what his sales pitch was. I know 2:01:59.480 --> 2:02:01.680 what I want it and what I wanted is I 2:02:01.720 --> 2:02:04.960 was already in trouble with Eric Euston. The two or 2:02:05.000 --> 2:02:09.160 three years was nearly up with Decca. Eric Easton wanted out. 2:02:09.600 --> 2:02:11.520 He wanted to do a deal where they were going 2:02:11.560 --> 2:02:14.160 to get six hundred thousand dollars of their own money 2:02:14.240 --> 2:02:17.080 and the money that was going to come because as 2:02:17.120 --> 2:02:19.720 you know, we sold records in England by now, in 2:02:19.760 --> 2:02:22.200 a very short period of time, we built up a 2:02:22.200 --> 2:02:26.520 lot of royalties abroad, not America, but in Europe that 2:02:26.640 --> 2:02:29.320 don't have to be paid for another twelve months. So 2:02:29.480 --> 2:02:35.360 we're very famous. But no petrol, right, And um, I 2:02:35.480 --> 2:02:38.360 kind of knew by instinct. I mean, obviously I'm articulating 2:02:38.360 --> 2:02:42.080 it better today, but the street instinct told me if 2:02:42.080 --> 2:02:44.360 I don't get Eric Easton handled, I could be in 2:02:44.400 --> 2:02:48.240 trouble because he had the same way as Allan once 2:02:48.240 --> 2:02:49.920 said to me, you know how I managed to take 2:02:49.960 --> 2:02:53.480 advantage of you, which years later was an incredible sentence 2:02:53.560 --> 2:02:56.600 to say to say, of course, And the real thing 2:02:56.720 --> 2:02:59.760 was that because he was thirteen years older than me. 2:03:00.120 --> 2:03:03.640 Now is that all there is? You know? No, right? 2:03:04.160 --> 2:03:09.040 But and we were And so you've got this wonderful 2:03:09.680 --> 2:03:15.560 destiny of time where we've met Alan. Then we cut satisfaction. 2:03:16.080 --> 2:03:19.600 Then he's got that to run with in terms of 2:03:19.640 --> 2:03:23.600 the advantage factor of him of things that had nothing 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:25.440 to do with the money that there was nothing to 2:03:25.440 --> 2:03:31.680 do with. Is that London Records was really epistle. It 2:03:31.880 --> 2:03:35.480 was run by an old war buddy of Sir Robert Lewis. 2:03:36.120 --> 2:03:39.720 He was down on st and tenth and they had 2:03:39.760 --> 2:03:44.760 Willie Mitchell. But so what and how do we get 2:03:45.440 --> 2:03:51.000 rise above? When the Beatles wrong? Capital a man for 2:03:51.200 --> 2:03:53.880 man or whatever, you know, they're on a division of 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:56.800 that or Ascot whatever the label was. And so and 2:03:56.920 --> 2:04:01.560 we're not even down in the boondocks. But it's so 2:04:01.840 --> 2:04:04.800 the energy of Alan and Alan repeating the same tricks 2:04:04.800 --> 2:04:06.720 that we didn't know he'd done with Sam Cook, by 2:04:06.760 --> 2:04:10.400 taking billboards in Times Square and things like that, add 2:04:11.320 --> 2:04:16.520 um erasmutas and flashed to it that we couldn't I 2:04:16.560 --> 2:04:21.280 mean I as you know the first album. One of 2:04:21.320 --> 2:04:23.200 the selling points of the first album was that it 2:04:23.240 --> 2:04:27.000 had no title on it in England because of communication 2:04:27.040 --> 2:04:29.920 and they fucked me. They put England's Newest Hit Makers 2:04:30.000 --> 2:04:36.200 of course, right, so you know um and that. But 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:39.200 of course the key then was now we need to 2:04:39.240 --> 2:04:44.480 follow up. Okay. So Alan's goal was to get enough 2:04:44.640 --> 2:04:47.880 cash and a better deal so you could squeeze. I 2:04:47.880 --> 2:04:50.080 don't know what his goal was, Okay. He wanted what 2:04:50.120 --> 2:04:52.800 he wanted. I wanted what I wanted. Eric Easton was 2:04:52.840 --> 2:04:57.600 settled five years later. You know, Um, he wanted the stunts. 2:04:58.120 --> 2:05:00.080 You had any idea you were getting in bed of 2:05:00.080 --> 2:05:08.840 the devil. No, you can remember we're only, um, twenty 2:05:08.920 --> 2:05:13.680 years after the war. Americans are still terrific, okay, So 2:05:13.880 --> 2:05:15.880 you get in bed with that. He was American because 2:05:16.160 --> 2:05:18.160 one of the one of the right. The point is, 2:05:18.320 --> 2:05:21.480 Bob that when we got to America and sixty four, 2:05:21.920 --> 2:05:24.040 suddenly we're in a country where we're not in a 2:05:24.080 --> 2:05:31.280 dirty business. I have to digest that. Well, Um, all 2:05:31.360 --> 2:05:34.240 of them included Dick Rowe, who was good because he's 2:05:34.280 --> 2:05:35.840 not the man who turned down the Beatles. To me, 2:05:35.880 --> 2:05:39.000 he's the man who signed the Rolling Stones. But they 2:05:39.000 --> 2:05:42.640 were all hoping we'd go away like that, would go 2:05:42.680 --> 2:05:46.520 back to Manta Varney and Davy Crockett hats and knacking cold, 2:05:47.720 --> 2:05:49.800 just like people robbing to get back to rock from 2:05:49.880 --> 2:05:54.920 hip hop. They were, so let's breathe heavily. Well, did 2:05:55.000 --> 2:05:58.040 it go well with Alan for a while? Okay? And 2:05:58.080 --> 2:06:03.440 then when do you start to realize there out for you? Oh? No, 2:06:04.040 --> 2:06:07.040 it where to start with? There is a point of 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:12.080 realization where we haven't got what Alan promised, but we 2:06:12.160 --> 2:06:16.520 haven't got the time to do anything about it because well, um, 2:06:17.440 --> 2:06:25.560 we supposedly we're going to continue to own our own records. Um. 2:06:25.600 --> 2:06:30.120 It's the greatest three card Monty trick of all time. 2:06:30.600 --> 2:06:36.160 If you say to somebody that, um, yeah, you're gonna 2:06:36.160 --> 2:06:38.880 own your own masters. It's going into this company and 2:06:38.920 --> 2:06:42.760 it's the same name as your British publishing company. If 2:06:42.800 --> 2:06:47.120 it's got limited stuck on the end of it, you say, 2:06:47.160 --> 2:06:50.760 oh limited, you know that's English. Like we we had 2:06:50.760 --> 2:06:54.360 everything we wanted for three days, and what happened after 2:06:54.360 --> 2:06:57.680 those three days? The Stones were advised by Alan that 2:06:58.240 --> 2:07:01.800 they couldn't own it or even the money without horrendous 2:07:01.880 --> 2:07:05.480 tax consequences, so he would and he'd pay them out 2:07:05.520 --> 2:07:08.720 over the next twenty years. They and you did not understand, 2:07:08.920 --> 2:07:11.800 of course not. This is where do you know how 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:16.040 I managed to take advantage of you comes in? Although 2:07:16.040 --> 2:07:19.520 I heard from his nephew that you had positive words 2:07:19.520 --> 2:07:21.800 to say about Alan at his funeral. Always, man, if 2:07:21.800 --> 2:07:25.640 you're stuck with somebody for fifty years and responsible for 2:07:25.680 --> 2:07:28.240 them putting the food on your table, he'll kill you 2:07:28.280 --> 2:07:32.920 if you hate them. He was always a very attractive person. 2:07:33.840 --> 2:07:36.840 How does the sun set on your relationship with the Stones? Um? 2:07:37.400 --> 2:07:42.120 Me taking too much drugs? Me? As Keith put in 2:07:42.280 --> 2:07:46.080 his book, while we and Andrew liked the same music 2:07:47.680 --> 2:07:50.120 what and wanted the same goals in other words, singles 2:07:50.600 --> 2:07:54.800 I'm still not into money wars. I'd rather watch Lionel Richie. 2:07:55.520 --> 2:07:58.240 I mean, I want hits. So when it came to 2:07:58.280 --> 2:08:01.200 that stage where suddenly the public taking drugs, which was 2:08:02.040 --> 2:08:05.200 here you've got the underbelly of Vietnam in England, we 2:08:05.240 --> 2:08:07.280 had the unrest that was coming up in Europe. Whether 2:08:07.360 --> 2:08:11.600 suddenly the equivalent on FM market and suddenly you can 2:08:11.680 --> 2:08:15.640 make albums I was making up. I mean one of 2:08:15.680 --> 2:08:18.440 the great things through Between the Buttons Aftermath, and that 2:08:18.520 --> 2:08:20.840 is the Stones are completely seamless. One of the things 2:08:20.840 --> 2:08:24.200 that places them above forget the Beatles, they're in the 2:08:24.240 --> 2:08:26.840 league of their own right, but all the other stuff 2:08:26.840 --> 2:08:31.400 where that's the animals Man from Man is the other 2:08:31.440 --> 2:08:34.840 bands were daiging to be commercial for one cut like 2:08:34.880 --> 2:08:37.120 for Your Love by the others, they were not seamless 2:08:37.120 --> 2:08:40.280 in that we all our stuff EPs or LPs was 2:08:40.320 --> 2:08:43.560 all as good as the singles. So the last album 2:08:43.600 --> 2:08:46.760 you were involved with word Between the Buttons. Many people 2:08:46.760 --> 2:08:48.880 consider that to be the best Stones record. That isn't 2:08:48.920 --> 2:08:51.160 necessarily my opinion, but people people see that as a 2:08:51.160 --> 2:08:54.120 great record in an era that was sixty six right, 2:08:54.160 --> 2:08:57.240 thank Ray Davis for it. Think well, it's it's gotta 2:08:57.400 --> 2:09:00.200 it's it's a strange thing where mcinkeith are right thing 2:09:00.240 --> 2:09:03.280 about England when they're not in England, and it has 2:09:03.400 --> 2:09:07.680 some of that flippancy. Flowers was the last one I 2:09:07.720 --> 2:09:11.320 put together. Um I left in the middle of Satanic 2:09:11.360 --> 2:09:14.760 match just um. Basically I mean the same way as 2:09:14.800 --> 2:09:17.680 I got to the Stones say forty eight hours ahead 2:09:17.720 --> 2:09:19.720 of the rest of the world. I left before I 2:09:19.760 --> 2:09:22.800 was asked to, and I thought, you realize this was 2:09:22.840 --> 2:09:24.880 self indulgent. You thought it was going off the deep end, 2:09:24.920 --> 2:09:28.000 and you said, I'm done. I couldn't. This was the 2:09:28.040 --> 2:09:31.200 first time that we were recording back in England apart 2:09:31.200 --> 2:09:34.839 from overdubs, and that they were arriving in the studio 2:09:34.840 --> 2:09:37.440 and cutting the tracks and then writing the songs on 2:09:37.480 --> 2:09:41.840 top of the tracks. And I couldn't get behind that. 2:09:42.280 --> 2:09:45.560 I wasn't. I do dreams, not money. I didn't sit 2:09:45.600 --> 2:09:47.760 there and think, oh, I better negotiate my way out 2:09:47.800 --> 2:09:52.520 of this. I just was. It was three weeks of hell. 2:09:52.520 --> 2:09:57.400 If you can't contribute, if you want to be a vegetable, okay, 2:09:57.480 --> 2:09:59.880 or you're gonna sit there. So there was no cart 2:10:00.000 --> 2:10:01.840 just this of I want to stay in this but 2:10:01.920 --> 2:10:04.800 from base for my bank account. No. But what was 2:10:04.840 --> 2:10:07.160 the status of immediate at that point was small faces 2:10:07.200 --> 2:10:10.440 were just coming together. That we had one hit with 2:10:10.480 --> 2:10:14.280 hang On Sloopy that we got from Burt Burns. Um. 2:10:14.320 --> 2:10:17.320 We had a very expensive number one that they could 2:10:17.320 --> 2:10:20.400 produce with Chris Farlow about of time. Um. It was 2:10:20.480 --> 2:10:23.200 draining blood, but and so it was getting to the 2:10:23.320 --> 2:10:27.360 end because I couldn't keep financing it with my Stones money, 2:10:27.400 --> 2:10:30.800 because that was coming to an end, or sort of 2:10:30.800 --> 2:10:33.240 coming to an end, you know. I mean We're still here, 2:10:34.360 --> 2:10:38.760 but it and we hadn't got the Small Faces. That 2:10:38.800 --> 2:10:41.320 was very expensive too, because that kind of involved twenty 2:10:41.320 --> 2:10:43.440 five grand of a paper bag for Don Arden to 2:10:43.600 --> 2:10:45.480 find a way out of breaking the deal they had 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:51.240 with Decca and and the Small Face as well. You know, Um, 2:10:53.480 --> 2:10:56.320 they were great in the studio, but they were not 2:10:56.400 --> 2:10:59.160 a band. They were a group you could never there 2:10:59.240 --> 2:11:01.720 was no reliableity with them on stage. They were children 2:11:04.480 --> 2:11:07.360 always Keith like when he said about Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy's great, 2:11:07.400 --> 2:11:10.360 but the kids he plays with, right? And did you 2:11:10.360 --> 2:11:13.520 put Humble Pie together? Yes? Well, no, I had a choice. 2:11:13.720 --> 2:11:17.360 Steve Mary was had had enough of Ronnie Lane and 2:11:17.440 --> 2:11:22.600 the Small Faces and the other three. Um, he wanted 2:11:22.600 --> 2:11:25.720 Peter Frampton, so he knew Frampton and Frampton as a 2:11:25.720 --> 2:11:30.920 hot guitar, and so we couldn't have gone with whatever 2:11:30.960 --> 2:11:33.640 the Faces were going to become. And humble Pie. Humble 2:11:33.680 --> 2:11:36.080 Pie was definitely an adventure man, you know what I mean? 2:11:36.440 --> 2:11:40.520 You okay, they it became realized after media went down 2:11:40.560 --> 2:11:43.680 with the Anthony and A and M. But I thought, 2:11:44.120 --> 2:11:46.720 here's another great shot. You can't get in the way 2:11:46.720 --> 2:11:49.000 of these people, except when Steve Mary got in the 2:11:49.000 --> 2:11:54.320 way of himself. So what year do you basically close 2:11:54.440 --> 2:11:58.440 up shop op and immediate okay? And then you're thinking, 2:11:58.440 --> 2:12:00.480 what are you so high on drug? Because you don't 2:12:00.560 --> 2:12:02.800 even know what you're thinking. Oh, I know what I'm thinking. 2:12:03.160 --> 2:12:05.800 I have the same now economic problems as the Rolling 2:12:05.800 --> 2:12:10.600 Stones do. And we've all got to leave England and 2:12:10.680 --> 2:12:14.160 they go to France and I go to Connecticut Wilson 2:12:15.760 --> 2:12:17.680 of course, very close to where I grew up, six 2:12:17.760 --> 2:12:23.960 or five Ridge Raild Road. And you continue to produce 2:12:24.040 --> 2:12:28.800 records and make deals, and you do that for about 2:12:28.800 --> 2:12:32.920 another ten years um on that more than I do. 2:12:33.080 --> 2:12:37.160 Had this interesting segue with Rare Earth Records, right produced 2:12:37.200 --> 2:12:39.480 stuff with them because well after they had get ready, 2:12:39.720 --> 2:12:42.840 they thought they're gonna have a white label, and so 2:12:43.080 --> 2:12:46.360 all the old white people who had had the like 2:12:46.440 --> 2:12:49.160 Bob Crew and it was there. I was there, Bobby 2:12:49.240 --> 2:12:53.840 Darren was there all producing stuff for Rare Earth. So 2:12:54.000 --> 2:12:58.280 now fifty years later, with this perspective, what do we 2:12:58.360 --> 2:13:03.480 learn have fun getting it done. I had fun getting done. 2:13:03.520 --> 2:13:05.440 If you you know this is a cliche question, I'll 2:13:05.440 --> 2:13:07.960 ask it anyway, if you had to do it over again, 2:13:08.000 --> 2:13:11.160 would you do anything differently? Absolutely nothing. I mean to me, 2:13:11.920 --> 2:13:15.760 the life is simply that comes out of Uterus and location. 2:13:16.760 --> 2:13:21.000 Where you know who drops you and where they dropped you, right, 2:13:21.520 --> 2:13:24.240 I mean, it's simple. You can't you you're the worst 2:13:24.240 --> 2:13:26.920 thing you can do is think you were responsible and 2:13:26.960 --> 2:13:30.720 in the time you have left. What anything you want 2:13:30.720 --> 2:13:33.920 to say any autumn, Bob, it's an I'm not saying 2:13:33.960 --> 2:13:38.760 it's over, okay, but any goals, any achievements, any dreams 2:13:38.840 --> 2:13:43.640 yet unfulfilled. I'm very lucky that, with all due respect 2:13:43.680 --> 2:13:48.120 to the Stones, once I got over the drug and 2:13:48.720 --> 2:13:55.200 alcoholism thing, every day is just as exciting as any 2:13:55.280 --> 2:14:00.160 day was with them, because life brings you that if 2:14:00.200 --> 2:14:05.480 you fucking embrace it and kiss it. I mean, Pulaski 2:14:05.800 --> 2:14:09.160 could have been the most depressing, depressed guy who I 2:14:09.200 --> 2:14:15.400 mean what he went through, But the thing I learned 2:14:15.400 --> 2:14:18.840 from him was my guard he went through. I mean, 2:14:18.880 --> 2:14:22.040 you know, Narny dead at eleven Poland and as you 2:14:22.080 --> 2:14:24.800 couldn't meet a more positive fucker in your life, and 2:14:24.880 --> 2:14:29.120 it's your choice. And so you wake up every day 2:14:29.120 --> 2:14:32.080 and you say, let's see what the world brings me. No, 2:14:32.360 --> 2:14:35.920 let's see what I can take from the world for me. 2:14:36.440 --> 2:14:38.840 If I don't take care of myself, there's absolutely no 2:14:38.880 --> 2:14:41.280 way I can take care of anybody else. And so 2:14:41.480 --> 2:14:45.600 a little bit more concretely, what might you take for yourself? 2:14:47.280 --> 2:14:55.000 I'd be grateful, Um, I would pace myself. I would 2:14:55.000 --> 2:14:59.720 make sure I got enough sleep, and I wouldn't kill 2:14:59.840 --> 2:15:02.200 mysel I'll trying to get anything done because it's going 2:15:02.240 --> 2:15:03.960 to get done, or it's not going to get done. 2:15:04.240 --> 2:15:09.400 You're just watching yourself do it. Do you think that 2:15:09.920 --> 2:15:15.320 the landscape of both culture and politics always maintains the same, 2:15:15.680 --> 2:15:18.320 or are we in a worse position better position? You've 2:15:18.360 --> 2:15:21.080 got the brainwashing of technology that if you actually are 2:15:21.200 --> 2:15:24.480 one of the unemployed or the underemployed or self employed, 2:15:24.480 --> 2:15:26.640 and you got time to watch this crap on television, 2:15:26.880 --> 2:15:29.600 you will notice, like vance packet and the hidden persuade us, 2:15:29.640 --> 2:15:33.000 that you're getting the same loop of information every thirty seconds, 2:15:33.000 --> 2:15:37.960 and you're being brainwashed. It's suppressed into absolutely nothing. For 2:15:38.000 --> 2:15:41.560 those who care to remember, the year we came to America, 2:15:41.680 --> 2:15:44.880 you had Lyndon Johnson, you know, I mean, come on, 2:15:45.080 --> 2:15:47.760 you just haven't got the barrage of it going out. 2:15:47.880 --> 2:15:51.240 But he did his press conference from the bathroom when 2:15:51.240 --> 2:15:56.400 we arrived in America. Uh. One of the many possibilities 2:15:56.480 --> 2:15:59.080 was that he could have killed Kennedy. Yes, I mean 2:15:59.080 --> 2:16:01.320 it was a different arab because we didn't know that much. 2:16:01.600 --> 2:16:03.640 I mean, now we know where everybody is and everybody's 2:16:03.640 --> 2:16:06.720 reachable seven. You know, we didn't know that f DR 2:16:06.920 --> 2:16:12.040 basically could walk. And you know, it's a very interesting time. 2:16:12.120 --> 2:16:14.400 Of course, you know, you live through We've We've lived 2:16:14.400 --> 2:16:17.600 long enough to see a couple of revolutions where music 2:16:17.680 --> 2:16:21.960 drove the culture, then technology drove the culture. And it's 2:16:22.040 --> 2:16:25.800 interesting is these changes occur that people believe that things 2:16:25.800 --> 2:16:29.000 don't change. Music will always survive. It's important. But just 2:16:29.080 --> 2:16:31.880 like you talk about Mary Kwan and Carnabie Street and 2:16:31.880 --> 2:16:34.840 all that other stuff, they have these peaks and then 2:16:34.920 --> 2:16:37.920 the peak becomes something else. It I agree with you, 2:16:37.959 --> 2:16:40.040 but it also has something to do with your age 2:16:40.040 --> 2:16:41.920 and where you're coming from. I made a point in 2:16:42.040 --> 2:16:44.840 April this year last year to go and see Justin 2:16:44.879 --> 2:16:49.400 Bieber in Bogata. I knew he would be great. You cannot. 2:16:49.680 --> 2:16:51.640 I hate to say this because it's gonna come out 2:16:51.640 --> 2:16:54.920 of the time by but Justin Bieber is great. Thank you. 2:16:55.160 --> 2:16:57.160 I mean, II the way I do this and the 2:16:57.160 --> 2:16:59.760 way I uh, you know the recent tracks which you 2:16:59.760 --> 2:17:02.560 are now two years old. I was listening on Spotify. 2:17:02.600 --> 2:17:04.600 I'm hiking in the mountains and I'm just clicking through 2:17:04.600 --> 2:17:06.720 the tracks. I have a little click around my Santahiser 2:17:06.800 --> 2:17:10.039 headphones and also like I go, what is this? And 2:17:10.080 --> 2:17:12.800 I gotta pull out my phone. You know, those happen 2:17:12.840 --> 2:17:15.120 to be great tracks. I mean, it's Justin Bieber. What 2:17:15.160 --> 2:17:18.080 can you say so great? It's like a great movie. Well, 2:17:18.120 --> 2:17:20.480 you see when he was in Colombia, that's where he 2:17:20.520 --> 2:17:23.760 picked up this next record, this panamz that he just 2:17:23.840 --> 2:17:25.840 picked it up. I know the people he went into 2:17:25.840 --> 2:17:28.920 the studio in Colombia. He did it in twenty four hours, 2:17:29.200 --> 2:17:31.080 he got so he did it when he was there 2:17:31.080 --> 2:17:34.240 on tour. Yeah, okay, so this is someone in a 2:17:34.560 --> 2:17:36.720 And also the other gift, which I didn't allow for 2:17:37.000 --> 2:17:40.520 because I had not seen him live, is when he 2:17:40.760 --> 2:17:43.600 and you can't rehearse this. I mean, you're born, You're 2:17:43.640 --> 2:17:46.040 born with this and it goes with the rest and everything. 2:17:46.360 --> 2:17:50.279 When he spoke to that audience, it was like Doobe 2:17:50.280 --> 2:17:55.120 Gillis meets Elvis. Okay, it was magic. It had as 2:17:55.280 --> 2:17:57.640 much volume and intensity as all the records of the 2:17:57.680 --> 2:18:00.680 songs and what he was doing on stage. So if 2:18:00.720 --> 2:18:03.560 you have a few we have four hours now, would 2:18:03.560 --> 2:18:05.520 you read a book, would you go for a walk, 2:18:05.560 --> 2:18:08.200 would you watch a movie? Would you watch television show? 2:18:08.600 --> 2:18:11.320 Would you listen to you know, listen to music? What? What? What? 2:18:12.360 --> 2:18:14.320 You don't listen to what? I go to see it 2:18:15.240 --> 2:18:18.360 and you don't listen because I will listen if I'm 2:18:18.360 --> 2:18:22.800 not choosing because you think music is best performed live, 2:18:22.920 --> 2:18:26.120 or you get an um. Uh. You know, look when 2:18:26.160 --> 2:18:28.720 I got here two days ago, we're in Los Angeles. Okay, 2:18:29.000 --> 2:18:35.720 it's weird. Uh in that my place, you know, I 2:18:35.760 --> 2:18:38.879 mean coming here six four and it's our c A 2:18:39.320 --> 2:18:43.360 and it's Liberty Records, and it's sunset, it's this um 2:18:44.200 --> 2:18:47.680 And now all that used to be inside a building. 2:18:47.720 --> 2:18:49.920 You were creating music, you were making it, you were 2:18:49.959 --> 2:18:54.879 still outsiders. Now it's wall to wool, restaurants, everything, and 2:18:55.080 --> 2:18:58.200 invariably in some music that I've made, or music that 2:18:58.240 --> 2:19:01.480 I'm familiar with that was made at the time. If 2:19:01.520 --> 2:19:03.120 I can hear in a supermarket, I'm gonna play it 2:19:03.120 --> 2:19:04.880 at home. I'm gonna be at Rock Hudson showing his 2:19:05.000 --> 2:19:08.240 old movies. What I come across, I will let in. 2:19:08.400 --> 2:19:12.080 But the reward is seeing stuff live. And that's a 2:19:12.160 --> 2:19:14.880 gentleman who lived through it and is still alive. Andrew, 2:19:14.959 --> 2:19:17.199 so great to have you. We could go out for hours. 2:19:17.440 --> 2:19:19.080 I mean, we'll have to do it the next time 2:19:19.080 --> 2:19:21.240 you're in Los Angeles because we have so much more 2:19:21.280 --> 2:19:23.520 to talk about a little deeper into those Stones albums 2:19:23.800 --> 2:19:27.680 and immediate and your era in Connecticut. Never mind, we 2:19:27.720 --> 2:19:31.680 didn't even get into the scientology thing, which but thanks 2:19:31.720 --> 2:19:33.920 so much for being Thank you for being so well. 2:19:34.000 --> 2:19:36.240 Until next time, It's Bob left Sex with Andrew lou 2:19:36.320 --> 2:19:44.120 Goldham on the Bob Left Sets Podcast. That wraps up 2:19:44.120 --> 2:19:47.039 another episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. I know 2:19:47.120 --> 2:19:49.520 there are a lot of podcasts out there. Hell, you 2:19:49.520 --> 2:19:51.480 can do so many other things with your time, so 2:19:51.520 --> 2:19:54.160 I really appreciate you joining me. Be sure to check 2:19:54.160 --> 2:19:56.760 out previous episodes if you missed them, and don't forget 2:19:56.800 --> 2:20:00.200 to subscribe on tune in, Apple podcast, or where where 2:20:00.200 --> 2:20:01.240 you get your podcast