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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is literally the legendary. They say legendary about

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, but this guy is legendary. Andrew

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Speaker 1: Luke Oldham. I remember getting email the first time about

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Speaker 1: the turn of the century, said Andrew Luke Oldham. Saw

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Speaker 1: him on the back of all those Stones album covers.

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Speaker 1: It's like, great to have you here, you a thank you,

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Speaker 1: good to be with you again a second round. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: as I say, I went to bo Guitar in September

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Speaker 1: of thirteen and I knew that Andrew was there and

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Speaker 1: we connected. That was the best place certainly I've been

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Speaker 1: to this century, maybe ever in that you really feel

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Speaker 1: vibrantly alive in Bogata. Tell the audience how you ended

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Speaker 1: up in bo Gutar. I went in at the end

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Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy four in London to Saister that was

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Speaker 1: showing a musical comedy called John Paul, George Ringo and

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Speaker 1: Bert written by a guy called William Willie Russell. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what it was about. One probably because

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Speaker 1: the condition I arrived in at the theater, and too

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Speaker 1: that the condition was accelerated by they're being this lady

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Speaker 1: in front of me in the theater who had now

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Speaker 1: been married to forty one years. But I was just

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Speaker 1: all I can tell you about that show was her

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Speaker 1: neck and we spent time together. I was living in

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Speaker 1: New York at the time, and she came to visit

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Speaker 1: me in New York. She went back to Columbia and

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Speaker 1: I followed her. Okay, and since we're on Columbia, what

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Speaker 1: is the situation with the fark. Supposedly peace was made

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Speaker 1: in Colombia? Is it really peace? But those don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's been decades of a revolutionary army terrorizing, closing her

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Speaker 1: unrest in Colombia, but supposedly piece has been made. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call them revolutionary. They're basically businessmen and fatigues because

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Speaker 1: their main business over the last thirty years was drugs.

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Speaker 1: They took over the drug business once Escobar really was

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Speaker 1: killed and the other towns couldn't stand up to the

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Speaker 1: pressure of the FARC and the e l N, the

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Speaker 1: other ones who they've still no peace with, and kidnapping

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Speaker 1: and drug expectation was their main business for the last

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Speaker 1: thirty years. The president that we that we have Santos

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Speaker 1: once he got his Nobel Prize. Man, you know he's

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Speaker 1: just left Columbia. He will just leave Columbia to sort

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Speaker 1: it out. So you've got um anywhere from twelve to

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand men or kids. I would think the kids

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Speaker 1: are more the danger because if you've just been raised

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Speaker 1: that you don't know much more about life than to

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Speaker 1: rape and pillage. What are you going to be an

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Speaker 1: uber driver? So they've got that that's going to take

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Speaker 1: and the amount of money that has been put aside

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Speaker 1: in a country that is just it's the fifth world now, Bob,

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Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. It's not the third world anymore.

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Speaker 1: So it's gotten worse where the rest of us have

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Speaker 1: pulled ahead. You think you've pulled ahead, Well, this is

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Speaker 1: another conversation. I'd be glad to have another podcast what's

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Speaker 1: going on in our country. But my point is for

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Speaker 1: those most people have not been to Columbia, never might

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Speaker 1: have been to South America. You know, we're Americans. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have passports. So the question would become is now,

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Speaker 1: in the last twenty years and now with peace with

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Speaker 1: the FARC, generally speaking, is the economy better or worse?

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Speaker 1: I think that's the one thing that's common with the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world is the the middle classes being

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Speaker 1: suppressed out of any remaining pesto or dollar they've got,

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Speaker 1: which is going on everywhere. So it's got better for

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Speaker 1: those who had it better anyway. So it's literally just

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Speaker 1: like the rest of the world exactly. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: looked better because you know, we we were for a

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Speaker 1: while until your recent change, Donny, Donny, um it, we

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Speaker 1: were the only friend that North America had with I mean,

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Speaker 1: we were the only everything else was, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but Better's waiter at one time changed his clock half

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Speaker 1: an hour, so it wasn't But they're all we we

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Speaker 1: were the one that America was going to because you

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Speaker 1: can all spend so much money and give us so

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Speaker 1: much money for supposed to be eradicating drugs. I've never voted,

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Speaker 1: so I'm pretty cynical about the whole system. Well, then

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Speaker 1: I have to ask this, as they said, we're talking

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Speaker 1: all these political things, but what is your view of

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Speaker 1: Brexit in the European Union. Um again, you've got David

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Speaker 1: Cameron behaved exactly the way that our president. Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: done it, I got my Nobel Prize. I'm off he

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Speaker 1: did the Brexit thing. He left and isn't that to

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Speaker 1: two years ago at least? Um, it's uh, it's a

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Speaker 1: trrendous mess. I think it would be better if they

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Speaker 1: didn't do it. And I think that could that could happen.

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Speaker 1: It would be interesting. I was actually heying with Billy Bragg,

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Speaker 1: who's very political. He thought, might I want to read

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Speaker 1: his book? Full book? Yeah exactly, he sent it to me. Um,

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Speaker 1: But before our audience, I don't want to know who

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Speaker 1: you are, okay, okay, your most legendary for the Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stones immediate records, and it goes on for Tony Calder recently.

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Speaker 1: Yes he did. He was your partner in the media,

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Speaker 1: Yes he was. Okay, But as I say, you are

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Speaker 1: born in what yearto so through the fifties whereas music

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Speaker 1: your focus or did you? Were you an opportunist? How

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Speaker 1: did you end up getting into the music scene in

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Speaker 1: the early sixties through fashion? Because I mean, I mean

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Speaker 1: I left school to sixteen. The first job was at sixteen. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I wish Sony more kids could leave school to sixteen.

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Speaker 1: You know, education as a crime. But we won't go there.

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Speaker 1: Oh I would like to go there. I think you know,

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Speaker 1: education is basically to keep people in line as opposed

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Speaker 1: to be creative exactly exactly, you know, to go it's

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Speaker 1: not going to work at six is criminal. But then

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Speaker 1: not all as blessed as we who were kicked out

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Speaker 1: and had to get on with right. But when I

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Speaker 1: did that in the first place, I wanted to work

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Speaker 1: where the carpets were thick and the teacups were thin.

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Speaker 1: And I landed up with a lady called Mary Quant,

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Speaker 1: legendary fashion designer who had a sort of karmas such

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Speaker 1: or redbird records of fashion that worked in that her

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Speaker 1: husband was the hustler. She cut and did the clothes,

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Speaker 1: the husband hustled and sold. And they also had an

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Speaker 1: old school friend who made surely utpaid old school interesting euphemism. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it worked, and I had a great education. The pop

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Speaker 1: that the fashion business was the book what was your

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Speaker 1: gig with? And you just showed up and say I'll

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Speaker 1: do anything that you hired you. I mean, I just

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Speaker 1: that's the place. I don't want to knock on one door.

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Speaker 1: I don't like this committee business even now. I think

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Speaker 1: you've got to pick where you want to go and

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Speaker 1: go there. Okay, Well, what was your spiel. That's such

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Speaker 1: that she hired you. You know, I can never remember

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Speaker 1: the actual moments of because I'm so fucking nervous going

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Speaker 1: in like that. I know it works, but I can't.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else in the room would have to tell you

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Speaker 1: what my picture. Okay, you go into a zone when

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Speaker 1: the whole situations. In any event, she does hire, she

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Speaker 1: hires me. I last there for eight or nine months

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Speaker 1: because uh, and we're in what year? This is sixty one?

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Speaker 1: And I then start taking a job in the nights

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Speaker 1: working at the original Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club, and my

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Speaker 1: job there was hanged. Was that another thing where you

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Speaker 1: said I have to work at Ronnie Scott's. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: because I've been given a great education of music when

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Speaker 1: I was about eleven by a guy next door. During

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Speaker 1: the years where you could sit for a guy next

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Speaker 1: door and not get molested. Is that because the it

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Speaker 1: is because they didn't molest you, or the cops weren't there.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have the we're all stars, even though we're

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Speaker 1: a star molester or we'll start you know, the rights

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Speaker 1: of entitlement, where you think you've got the right to

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Speaker 1: intrude on somebody else. There was less of that. Although

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Speaker 1: the other thing, of course is I mean, we know

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Speaker 1: that's against the law, but being gay was against the

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Speaker 1: law anyway, right, but you can't even touch another kid

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Speaker 1: if you put it, you know, it's it's amazing world

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Speaker 1: we live in, but any even you're with your next

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Speaker 1: door neighbor. And I and so when I was eleven,

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Speaker 1: he ran me through everything from U uh a'ma jamal

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Speaker 1: to Bob Crosby and the you know, the Brother of

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Speaker 1: Being Crossed, the Bobcats, the the Red Novo Um. The

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Speaker 1: one thing that really made a dent on my mind

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Speaker 1: and on Lou Adler because he used it as the

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Speaker 1: prototype for Carol King was George Sharing with Peggy Lee

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Speaker 1: live in Chicago. It's really I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that record. I certainly know those people, beauty and the beat. Okay.

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Speaker 1: If I tracked that record down, I'm gonna hear Tapestry. Okay,

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Speaker 1: sound it's there, Okay, it's there. Um great, especially with

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Speaker 1: the instrumental Sat and Sat and Doll on it, which

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Speaker 1: I think it's George Sharing, Quintant and Peggy. Um. So

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Speaker 1: I went to work for Ronnie Scott's on the Coats,

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Speaker 1: I got the Pakistani food from over the road as

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a food license. Uh. Then I kind

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Speaker 1: of got greedy and I went to work the midnight

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Speaker 1: to five am shift at the Flamingo Club, which was

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Speaker 1: owned by a guy called Jeff Krueger who had Amberg records,

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Speaker 1: but he rented the place out that night to the

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Speaker 1: Gunnell brothers, who might have heard of from Chris Farlows

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Speaker 1: money and all those kind of pis And I served

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Speaker 1: the whiskey and the coat bottles because if the cops

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Speaker 1: came in and he looked innocent and looked like he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be serving scotch um, And so I did that.

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Speaker 1: Then basically I had my first nervous breakdown. Um, the

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Speaker 1: others don't count. The first one is the most important. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So your how old when you have your first nervous breakdown?

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Speaker 1: Sixty one? I'm seventeen. And how do you know you're

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Speaker 1: having a nervous break Were you've taken on too much?

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Speaker 1: Too much? Three jobs in a week is And do

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Speaker 1: you feel building you're building up to it or you

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Speaker 1: just freak out it point building up? Then I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: call it freak out. Then you decide travel will be

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Speaker 1: the cure. So I went to the south of France

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting, kind of like the Rod Stewart's song,

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Speaker 1: you know, every picture tells the story. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of I ended up there, and it's

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Speaker 1: interesting being back in this location because in a restaurant

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Speaker 1: up there this past spring, I was able to say

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Speaker 1: hello for the first time to Johnny Halldy really before

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Speaker 1: he passed. Yes, because when I was seventeen it was

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Speaker 1: a very good year and I worked in Jouan Lapin

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Speaker 1: at an English tea room, serving tea of course um

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the block he was already

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Speaker 1: in a white tux playing the casino and he was

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Speaker 1: only nine months or eight eight months older than me,

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Speaker 1: and I went, wow, ye first you go you don't

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Speaker 1: go something's wrong, but you go, well, there's hope man,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, the other rockers like Eddie Mitchell

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Speaker 1: and Dick Rivers were playing cafes and I was attracted

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Speaker 1: to all. As bad as French rock is, I was

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Speaker 1: attracted to it because it wasn't as personally bad as

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Speaker 1: English rock was at the time. Cliff Cliff, Richard, Billy

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Speaker 1: Fury right, you know, they were only they only had

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Speaker 1: an American accent when they sung um, and so I

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Speaker 1: preferred the French New Wave in the movies, I preferred

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Speaker 1: their new rook you know, and all that with Johnny Hallity,

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Speaker 1: and I'd seen him a couple of times in the

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Speaker 1: two thousand's in Marseille, which was a town that when

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Speaker 1: I was seventeen I couldn't go to. It was too rough.

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Speaker 1: Then well, in my job, I didn't have a job,

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Speaker 1: I was begging off English tourists literally begging, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: begging in that the pitch went into okay. Mainly the

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Speaker 1: ones who ended up in those areas and south of

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Speaker 1: France were the Jewish world to do out of London,

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Speaker 1: who knew how to get money out for the holiday

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Speaker 1: because you're only allowed to take fifty pounds away. And

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Speaker 1: so you remember when News to pay As or magazine

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Speaker 1: used to arrive rolled up. Of course, well the money

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Speaker 1: would go in there and it would actually turn up

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Speaker 1: at your hotel. Wow, okay, and I would put on

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Speaker 1: an accent that appealed to them, which I'm moving into now.

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Speaker 1: And I would excuse me, but my allowance hasn't arrived

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Speaker 1: from my mother. And I wonder if you could lend

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Speaker 1: me if I could borrow ten or twenty francs, and

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Speaker 1: if you tell me which hotel you're in, And I did,

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Speaker 1: depended on whether I thought they were worth paying back,

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Speaker 1: but the rest of it went to my water skiing lessons. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're in the south of France and you meet

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Speaker 1: Johnny Holiday. No, I don't meet him. I saw him

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Speaker 1: from Afar and you got inspired. And then how long

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Speaker 1: are you in France before you return to the island

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Speaker 1: until the season runs up? And I'm now I got

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Speaker 1: involved in a slight Mickey Mouse type of kidnapping there

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Speaker 1: where I ran into a photographer who recently passed a

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Speaker 1: great guy called Philip Town's End, and he said, look ah,

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Speaker 1: if you will keep this heiress locked up, she's still around.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember his lady something right. We can sell

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Speaker 1: the stories to the stringers of the newspapers like the

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Speaker 1: Daily Mail stringer and the Express stringer and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And the girl was willing, so it wasn't really It's

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Speaker 1: all scared, of course, but unfortunately her father had the

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Speaker 1: powers to install a scheduled d notice on the newspapers,

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Speaker 1: which was is the English way of of Uh, a

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Speaker 1: newspaper can't print something it's against the public interest. At

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Speaker 1: that time it was used for government thing, but he

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Speaker 1: used it so we couldn't say let the girl go

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Speaker 1: or she We said it's over. And by November with

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Speaker 1: the season, I'm going around knocking on the doors of

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Speaker 1: the stringers who didn't buy the stories, getting cash from them,

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Speaker 1: and then from an English vicar, I let the English

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Speaker 1: take my passport away pay for me to go back home,

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Speaker 1: and I started again. Mary quant said I can't give

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Speaker 1: you your job back and drew, but I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: where you can get a job. And she sent me

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Speaker 1: to a guy called Peter Hope Lumley, whose mother had

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Speaker 1: been a lady in waiting for the queen, and he

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Speaker 1: represented doing pr all of the guy who made the

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Speaker 1: shoes for the Queen, Edward Rain, Norman Hartnell, who made

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Speaker 1: the dresses, Hardy Amy's who made prince and stuff. So

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Speaker 1: I had a very good education there and then fell

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Speaker 1: into pr It was not something you said, um well,

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Speaker 1: the sweet smell of success helped me right, and then

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Speaker 1: pop was I got my first I was I got

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Speaker 1: to how to get a job to please my mother.

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Speaker 1: That was real pr as opposed to the pansy royal

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Speaker 1: type of stuff that very I mean, that was her opinion.

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Speaker 1: So I took a job at a regular place to

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Speaker 1: please my mother, who did things like the British as were.

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Speaker 1: Guild hated it, and I started taking pop clients on

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Speaker 1: the first were like Mark Winter who covered the venus

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Speaker 1: and blue jeans and go with a little girl, Kenny

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Speaker 1: Lynch who covered up on the roof. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: in the way, how did you get connected with them?

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Speaker 1: You just knock on the door man, you know, I mean, um,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean it's time. It was a simpler time.

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Speaker 1: You find out that Bob Dylan is staying in the

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Speaker 1: Cumberland Hotel in January, either December of sixty January brought

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Speaker 1: to England and the freakish or circumstances the television director

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Speaker 1: nobody really knew who he was. Then goes on holiday

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Speaker 1: to New York, sees him in the village is doing

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Speaker 1: a Jack London play for for the BBC. The BBC

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Speaker 1: and says, look, there's this folks singer I saw. I'd

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Speaker 1: like him to be doing the Mad House of Carroll

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Speaker 1: Street or something like that. Um and says, I think

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Speaker 1: he would be good in the background, um singing in

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Speaker 1: the background. The tapes are wiped. They don't exist anymore. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know this story, okay. And so he

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Speaker 1: turns up in England with Albert Grossman, and that's the

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Speaker 1: manager for the listeners, for the listeners who were not

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Speaker 1: steeped in sixties history. Okay, Well he's the manager, right,

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Speaker 1: And well, I mean, you know the genius of it,

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Speaker 1: the that without Peter, I mean Peter, Paul and Mary. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the thing without Albert Grossman. Does

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan make it? No? Right? Of course, not, no, no.

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Speaker 1: And I threw a guy at the Melody Maker, which

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Speaker 1: was one of our four musical papers which came out

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Speaker 1: every week. Yes it did, but it was the most

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Speaker 1: jazz and folk of the elders were basically pop, right,

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Speaker 1: And I went knocked on the door and I got

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Speaker 1: the gig. I got the gig for ten the ten

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Speaker 1: days they were there, probably I got You were the

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Speaker 1: pr guy for Bob Dylan? Now was he? So he

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Speaker 1: was in that musical? Well, it's a television play. And

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Speaker 1: and while the plays it's a Jack London thing. And

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Speaker 1: while the play is going on at certain parts during it,

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Speaker 1: he's playing the guitar in the background, so the actors

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Speaker 1: got you know, where you and I are talking, he's

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Speaker 1: at the corner playing the time. But he's not doing

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Speaker 1: any independent gigs or is he? No, not took him

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Speaker 1: around London. He got to places like the jazz stores,

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Speaker 1: the record stores, Dobell's Jazz and things like that. But

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Speaker 1: the only gig was the television show. And you one

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Speaker 1: has to ask was he is enigmatic or was he

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Speaker 1: you know, wet behind the years at that point they

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Speaker 1: never are man Otherwise he wouldn't have been with Albert Gross, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean the the I spent twenty minutes with him

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Speaker 1: in the hotel um and that Bob Dylan is the

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan you got now fully formed, fully formed. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you do the gig with Dylan and yeah, But

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Speaker 1: the point is that when I'm in the room with

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Speaker 1: them and I'm watching this celestial marriage between the two

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Speaker 1: of them, you know, you've you know, when you've been there,

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Speaker 1: when it's worked, and I'm going for whatever this is,

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Speaker 1: I want it, okay, because there's no don't don't come

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Speaker 1: out and go. I've got to find an act that

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Speaker 1: never came into it. I just carried on what I

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Speaker 1: was doing, and in that beginning of sixty three, so

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Speaker 1: I had Bob Dylan for ten days. Then through one

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Speaker 1: of my more pop clients, I was in a television

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Speaker 1: show with Mark Winter and he was promoting Go with

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Speaker 1: a Little Girl, his second single, the Steve Lawrence Thing

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Speaker 1: here and the Beatles were doing their second record Please

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Speaker 1: Please Me, and so um I walked up to John

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Speaker 1: Lennam and said who handles you? And he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: the guy at the Paisley Scarf and the corn and

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Speaker 1: I went over and got the gig to do their

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Speaker 1: pr in London because the Beatles or Brian Epstein's operation

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Speaker 1: was still based in Liverpool, and in the beginning of

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Speaker 1: ninety three you didn't make long distance phone calls selling

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Speaker 1: a crew. I still remember that when you used to

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Speaker 1: pay by the minute, right, so you might over a funeral,

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Speaker 1: a birth would be a letter. And I got the gig.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else had a guy called Tony Barrow. Have you

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Speaker 1: heard of him. Yeah, he had a very oppressive version

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Speaker 1: of the gig because he worked at Decca, which is

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Speaker 1: you know that, not the Beatles record company. And when

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Speaker 1: Decca closed at five o'clock. He would use the printers,

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Speaker 1: the stamps and the envelopes to mail out Beatles stuff

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Speaker 1: to people. He never got on the blower, never got

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Speaker 1: on the phone. I did all of that. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: when Paul McCartney was in Guitar about four years ago,

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Speaker 1: and I was in the room with him, and he

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Speaker 1: introduced me to his wife as this is Andrew, our

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Speaker 1: first press agent. And I thought it might be a

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Speaker 1: trick British question, and I said, well, what about Tony Barry?

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Speaker 1: He said, well, that's another story, and that I was

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Speaker 1: the first one who was able to go on the

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Speaker 1: street for them. I would have them during the four

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Speaker 1: months I was with them. I would have them like

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Speaker 1: for a day every ten days. And because of the

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Speaker 1: roller decks of fashion that I had walked away with

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Speaker 1: from Mary Quant and Peter Hope Lumley, I could get

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Speaker 1: them in a wider range of places than exactly. So

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Speaker 1: one has to ask is you know, of course, because

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Speaker 1: it was literally an invasion in America. When you're working

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Speaker 1: with the Beatles, do you sense that this is a

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Speaker 1: turning point for them and it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: revolution or it's just another popular there's a night in

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Speaker 1: the in those days the same way as you had

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Speaker 1: the Dick Clark, and that what we had was different promoters,

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Speaker 1: including the Fire the Rosharon Osborne and other people like

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Speaker 1: Garth House and Tito Burns put on um shows that

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Speaker 1: were touring England. The cinemas would close for the night

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Speaker 1: and you as they were all old theaters who have

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Speaker 1: been considered have been converted to cinemas. They do two

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Speaker 1: shows a night. And the Beatles started out on a

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Speaker 1: bill in February of nine six, three of which top

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Speaker 1: of the bill was Chris Montez, Tommy Row and a

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Speaker 1: British singer of the straight version of Amy Winehouse Helen Shapiro.

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Speaker 1: Same thing comes, same town of town, mustache, you know,

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Speaker 1: nice Jewish girl from North London but without the smack right,

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Speaker 1: and had hits like six huge top ten records walking

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Speaker 1: back to Happiness in the sixty two that were huge,

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Speaker 1: and the beginning of the tour, the Beatles were bottom

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Speaker 1: of the bill and by the time and it moved

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Speaker 1: north to the tour, and by the time he got

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Speaker 1: north over the top of the bill that with because

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Speaker 1: of the span and the effect of please please Me

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Speaker 1: and in answer to your question. There was one night

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Speaker 1: in the Granada, Bedford where the fans were starting to

390
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: break the windows from the outside. And that didn't even

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Speaker 1: really go on for even Johnny Ray, who was a

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Speaker 1: huge influence. I mean he was before Elvis for all

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Speaker 1: of us. But that night I stood at the back

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Speaker 1: of the theater with Brian Epstein and Okay, there may

395
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Speaker 1: have been kids or eight hundred whatever it was, but

396
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: we both heard the whole world. You knew that was

397
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Speaker 1: the moment. Yeah, okay, so you work with them for

398
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Speaker 1: a number of months until the Rolling Stones. Okay, so

399
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Speaker 1: very slowly. How do you end up connecting with the

400
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: Rolling Stars? Very slowly? Um? I used to go and

401
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: to hustle journalists at the Record Mirror at a pub

402
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: called d MS Offshore Spree Avenue. That was a great guy,

403
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: and he recently passed called Peter Jones, and he said

404
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: to me, when I'm trying to house Slim and christ

405
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: I did. I was doing Chris Montez as well, American

406
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Speaker 1: who came through Sam Cooke, Little Richard all this right, Um,

407
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Speaker 1: I just didn't want a regular job. You wanted to

408
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: continue My mother was wrong, right, and I, um, uh, listen,

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Speaker 1: he says. Andrew said, you know our musical papers called

410
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Speaker 1: Record Mirror, which means we only write about people who

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Speaker 1: have records. But there's this young R and B fan

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Speaker 1: writer who works for us called Norman Joplin, and he's

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00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: so enthusiastic about this band in Richmond that we're actually

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00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: going to publish a piece in a couple of weeks,

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00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: a small piece, but nonetheless a piece or a group

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have a record, called the Rolling Stones. He said,

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Speaker 1: I think should go and see him. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: is he trying to get rid of me? Or does

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00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: he have my best interest? And even though I'd been

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Speaker 1: in the room with Dylan and Grossman, I didn't actually

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00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: want to be a manager. I was fine. And I

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00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: then thought, and then on Sunday nights we would have

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Speaker 1: our equivalent of the At Sullivan show, the Sunday night

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Speaker 1: of the London Palladium. And Sunday was stay at home.

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Speaker 1: You know my mother on my shirts better than I did.

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Speaker 1: And so you paid lip service while that process, and

427
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: the trousers and your Chelsea boots got polished, and you

428
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: eet and then you watched the Yeah right, And that

429
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: was Sunday right, And I was. I thought, well, if

430
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't go, how can I turn up the next

431
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: Tuesday and hustle him? Right? So manners it was that

432
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: had me and I found out I could. I didn't

433
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: have to step all the way into town. I could

434
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: go out on the override trains to Richmond and I

435
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: got to Richmond station. It was Georgia Gamelski who promoted

436
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: these gigs, also died just a couple of years ago,

437
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: and he thought he managed them. Um. But then in

438
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: the world where you know, there are no accidents, um,

439
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: his father died in Switzerland, and so he nobody was

440
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: mining the shot at the store. These gigs he put

441
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: on in the back of the station hotel. So I

442
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: went in and I kind of, um fell in love. Um.

443
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: One of the great ah parts of it was that

444
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: I really had no real affinity for your actual rhythm

445
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 1: and blues. I mean, libra and stella was my you know,

446
00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: the drifters was my. UM. So I didn't walk in

447
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: there as others might have and go, oh god, they

448
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: don't do that Willie Dixson thing. Very well, it was

449
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: all fucking magic to you know. This wave came over

450
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: me and I knew that that's why coming up with

451
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: an expression they are a way of life was It

452
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: was easy because they had already been saturated with it,

453
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: um and you know they were sitting down really performing. Yeah,

454
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: they were all but because it gave you if you've

455
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: got the sweater with the holes in it and you're

456
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: that left wing that you're left slightly socialist for you're

457
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: lining yourselves up with sharecroppers, which I've always found a

458
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: little difficult for white middle class boys going to art

459
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: school or university. Um. But nonetheless, so to make it

460
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: look more authentic, didn't have enough movements to to go

461
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: through an actual show standing up as yet, but there

462
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: was on stools like rhythm and blues people and and

463
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: or jazz's or whatever, and so you had that which

464
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: people forget as the revisionism changes or time changes everything.

465
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: You had a front line of Brian, Mick and Keith

466
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: and it was just so visually, which was always top

467
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: of my list anyway, because coming out of fashion, and

468
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: I mean when we started this conversation, he said, clothes

469
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: went with the music. What's the point of listening to

470
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: the music if, um, somebody doesn't know what you like?

471
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you must have had your own equivalent of that.

472
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: What you liked and how you look, told everybody who

473
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: you were, of course, I mean in the early sixties

474
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: it was Ganondeine and the Beach Boys, no matter where

475
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: you lived. I mean, you have the striped shirts and

476
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: the blue sneakers, and before these English bands hit the

477
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: shores and then we all grew are here. Happened in

478
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: Europe too, I mean they were like every country except

479
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: France had its own version of the South America too,

480
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: his own version of the Stones and the Beatles. It

481
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: became It's finished in sixty when nobody had rolls royces

482
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: or six months in every road to make a record.

483
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: But while they were like banging out studio records, in fact,

484
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: the people who were the local, to say, the Swedish

485
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: Stones would be on the shows with us. Would they

486
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: be basically imitating your material? Yes, that's very strange. Let's

487
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: go back to his club. So you're in the club,

488
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: you go to see him the first time, you have

489
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: the epiphany the first time, Yes, and you go and

490
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: talk to the bank. Yes, I do, And what do

491
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: you say, um again, I don't remember. Well, did you

492
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: pitch him as a pr person? And I pitched him

493
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: as a manager. I know I pitched them without stating

494
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: what I was pitching them about. They say, I want

495
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: to work with you. And were they receptive? Why do

496
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: you think they were receptive because of you or because

497
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: no one had approached him or Gomeshi was all of

498
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: those reasons. And I'm good at you know, I mean

499
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: I was younger than them somewhat. Um uh, you know

500
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: did they think at the time this was it? Was

501
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: this a lark? Was this a lifetime employment? Nothing was

502
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: a lifetime then, man, Nothing was a lifetime Until February

503
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: the eighth, or whatever the day is, the Beatles appeared

504
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: on it sell of them. So now you're also talking

505
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: about to the era certainly pre internet, but also pre calling.

506
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: So they're not playing again to the following Sunday night, right, No,

507
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: they would play in on Wednesday nights and another at

508
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: a different place. Um. I didn't see them again though,

509
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: till the next Sunday. And at that stage I had

510
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: a huge dilemma. I mean, a week was a wonderful

511
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: amount of time. You know. Then right now he's just

512
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: waiting for somebody to call you back, right. Um. In

513
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: that manners decreed that I would offer them to Brian

514
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: Epstein because I was still working for him, and I

515
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: was not only the Beatles, I was doing the beginning

516
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: of Billy J. Kramer still a blank was going to

517
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: be in a month I've done. I had been up

518
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: to um another Paul and met his next find who

519
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: he has short told me, and this was true, they

520
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: would have a number one record during the Placemakers. And

521
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: I looked at these scruffs man, you know, like the

522
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: coats looked like they were made out of lino um.

523
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: And he was right because of the song that the

524
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: song that the Beatles had to central, We're not doing

525
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: it right, the Mitch Murray song how do You? So

526
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: I went, you know, I knew it wouldn't work with

527
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: Brian Epstein because he was already getting a bit right

528
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: um obsessed. So I probably went like, well, Brian not

529
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: like Mick doing much and he passed and a guy

530
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: who Ago. But you actually got to the point where

531
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: you said, I have this if you're interested, can we

532
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: share it? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah, you do wonder sold

533
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: it so much you said I'm not interested. I don't

534
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: know if he was listening, but I still did what

535
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: I would go about yourself. You said, I gave was shot.

536
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't use those words. I did the right thing, right, okay, um.

537
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: And though that then the editor of the Melody Maker,

538
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: guy called Jack Hutton, said, had already said to me

539
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: about a month afloat when you need an office. Andrew,

540
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: I know this, uh failed organist didn't say that. If

541
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: a guy used to be play organ and the Blackpool

542
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: Tower and then you know it changed his name to

543
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Eric Easton. He was another actually another Epstein east one

544
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: of those the names. Because you're now dealing with the

545
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: wonderful as with my mother's boy with the last generation

546
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: of Jews in England who manicured up and became British,

547
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, so they didn't there, you know, you wanted

548
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: to belong. So he was now Eric Easton. He was

549
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: an agent and he managed a guitarist called Bert Weeden,

550
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: a disc jockey. It was very level c but I

551
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: got an office from him for four pounds a week

552
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: and all no Andrew the long distance ohn calls. All

553
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: of the country was all about the long distance phone calls.

554
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: And because he was an agent and I just did

555
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: mouth um. I actually probably would not have got the

556
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: rolling stones if I hadn't made him. The first partner

557
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: I had in it before the Towers of Babel in America,

558
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: and he was became their agent. He became the co

559
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: manager with me and the Age Soult when they were playing.

560
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: The club didn't have an agent, Okay, somebody was. You've

561
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: got those two structures of England trad jazz is poor

562
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: relative skiffle. I mean, you know from the Billy Brag book,

563
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: the history of how the Lonnie Donegan records came out

564
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: of all of that stuff, and how the people who

565
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: controlled the club circuits. I mean, either the promoters like

566
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: Harold Pendleton Georgia with his sort of left wing oasis

567
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: that he would run um frowned on rhythm and blues.

568
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: It was a poor relative. It did seem to be

569
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: attracting younger people than the traditional jazz bands like Humphrey

570
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: Littleton and Chris barber Head. So it's a week later

571
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: and you show up with at the gig and you

572
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: tell the Stones what I now, show up with Eric Houston,

573
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: and then we signed them and because of mine, and

574
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: when you sign them you literally have a piece of paper. No,

575
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: they came in the office. Brian was the leader and

576
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: so Brian would come in for the negotiations, and Charlie

577
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: and Bill had jobs. Um McKeith didn't good and they

578
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: would sit at Lyon's corner house on the corner of

579
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: a couple of black teas and wait for what Brian

580
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: had determined with Eric and me. And and because of

581
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: my knowledge of America through mainly Jim Lee who had

582
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: Chris Montez, but then Bob Crew and my knowledge of

583
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: Phil Specter, we signed them for the management and the records.

584
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: Okay for those people who don't know, And this is

585
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: becomes very important, especially in the history of the Role Stones.

586
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: It was licensed to the label, you owned the records.

587
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: Anybody else in the UK have that deal at that time?

588
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: They did so it was not incredibly uncommon. No, but

589
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: because it was incredibly uncommon, but because I was younger

590
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: than all the rest, it would get noticed. All the rest.

591
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: You had a pecking order of Joe Meek, who did

592
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: tellstar Um who you could call, and he cut acts

593
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: for Robert Stigwood like John Layton and things like that.

594
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: They did it, but they had actually learned it from

595
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: a guy called Dennis Preston who had He'll be in

596
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: that book Landsdown Studios, who did Chris Barbera, therefore Lonnie Donegan.

597
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: They were all independent records. So once again you became

598
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: a student of the business. How did you know this

599
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: When I would be doing pr for anybody from like

600
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: Johnny Tillottson or Brian Highland or Ah Sam Cook and

601
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: little Richard. I wanted him the managers man, because they

602
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: would travel with the acts and you just you know,

603
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: I mean America was it for me? From soul Bass

604
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: the posters for those awful out of Parmager films. The

605
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: posters were better than the films. And you know, I

606
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: mean anything ammunition and the knowledge that comes in or

607
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: the instinct that gets developed by studying these things. You

608
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: don't don't actually have to look at a book and

609
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: read it and get what's in the book. You just

610
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: have to hold it and well, this is very well articulated.

611
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: This is what people don't understand. They go to music schools,

612
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: they think they can learn it. It's more about your

613
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: sensibility matched with a passion and eyes wide open you

614
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: can feel something. Especially all the greats in the music

615
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: business are not educated people. There are people who operate

616
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: on field. So in any event, you make a deal

617
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: with the Stones, Yes, and how long is that deal

618
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: is supposed to run? Oh? Three or five years? Three?

619
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: Two three or thing? You have a lawyer who are

620
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: or murky? Didn't It just takes out the usual piece

621
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: of take out a piece of paper, man, and they

622
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: say they're in okay, and you say you're gonna make them,

623
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: and what is the next step. The next step is

624
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: that the pub called the weather be Arms. They used

625
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: to rehearse and I just said to me, listen, pick

626
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: out the five things that you think are the most commercial.

627
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: Play them to me, and then we'll pick three and

628
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: we'll go and record them. And so there was Come On,

629
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: which was a Chuck Berry b side Willie Dixon thing

630
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: I want to be Loved And I can't remember the

631
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: third thing. And so we went to Olympic Studios, which

632
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: at that time was near Marble Arch and it was

633
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: a four track studio with whose money? Eric's yeah, okay,

634
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: you don't have any money. I don't have any money,

635
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: dare And if I did it, I'd be wearing it.

636
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: But but let's be clear. You were the producer, for

637
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: want of a better word, Okay, Well, what would you

638
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: consider your role to be at those No, I do

639
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 1: concern I am the only one if they had gone

640
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: through the system. Where As you know from the pictures

641
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: you've seen from Abbey Row, you everybody gets what they deserved.

642
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: The Beatles got what they should have. In other words,

643
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: they've got a very competent George Martin who had a

644
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: musical experience as well. The engineer Norman Smith knew about

645
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: another kind of music, so all those elements could come

646
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: into the Beatles when they needed it. What we had

647
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: to get away from was the fact that acts before us,

648
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: the English Rockers and things like that, you'd have a

649
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: three hour session. They wouldn't even let them listen back

650
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: to what they've done. You know. It was just run

651
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: like a shop steward, like a union thing um. And

652
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: the engineer was a guy called Roger's Avage. They give

653
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: me the kid an olympic um. We had the forty

654
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: quid three hours five three hours, were up at five

655
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: to six and got no more money. Right. Recordings weren't

656
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: that good? Right? I mean, but they weren't. They were

657
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: less terrified with me than they would have been with

658
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: a guy who might have been seven years older, who

659
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: would have felt like fifty years old. Did you give

660
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: them any direction? No? Interestingly, when I eventually listened to

661
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: the Chuck Berry record, the vocals a spot on. I

662
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: mean you know, I mean they you think almost think

663
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: that Mick was on the Chuck Berry record sing in

664
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: the backup right five six. I went, all right, that's it.

665
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: Engineers says, well, we got to mix it, and I said,

666
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: what's that? And he explained to me about the four

667
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: channels or the four tracks it was on. And my

668
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: attitude was if I'm not here, I don't have to

669
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: pay for it. So I said, you do it. I'll

670
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: come back in the morning. Um the and that was

671
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: the first single. Then then Decker tried to put me okay, well, well,

672
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: well a little bit slower. So you cut these three

673
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: tracks and then how does it become a single? What's

674
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: the deal? Okay? We had gone to Decca because they

675
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: turned down the Beatles. An actual fact, one of the

676
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: A and R men, as you know, picked Brian Paul

677
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: and the Trammelers because it was nearer. It was Daggingham,

678
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: it was it was nearer than the Beatles being in Liverpool.

679
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: But anyway, Dick Roe was a very bright man. Then R. Man.

680
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: There was no no, He just said, yeah, I'll take

681
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: it right on the least deal. But they tried, as

682
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, for the sake of your viewers.

683
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 1: The least deal is, you know, you've got to get

684
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: ten points or eight points to play with us, opposed

685
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: to three or four or two or three. And but

686
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: he wanted to try and get them signed as a

687
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: direct act, so he said, yeah, yeah, but the recording

688
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: is not that good. We want to let one of

689
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: our producers have a crank at it. And they picked

690
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: a guy who they were giving the gold Watch two

691
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: because he delivered a couple of pop things to them

692
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: from sixty two. Guy called Michael Barker, you've done Eden Cane,

693
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: and oh god, I was I'm going, I mean you.

694
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't turn around to the stones and say play badly.

695
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: But my version was marginally better enough that they then

696
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: accepted the least deal and we were off to the races.

697
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: In the first track, does how well in the marketplace,

698
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: it would have only gone to thirty eight, But I

699
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: bought it from thirty eight to eighteen because you had

700
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: forty five shops. It wasn't as company, it wasn't a

701
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: simple and complicated as American Paola, you had forty five

702
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: You don't you weren't greasing DJs. You had forty five

703
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: shops that reported to the four musical newspapers, and all

704
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: you had to do was go in and buy three

705
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: to five singles at five shillings and sevenpence each um

706
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: in those shops on a Friday or Saturday. You know,

707
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: it's basically the trick is making the record company fall

708
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: in love with you once when you signed with them,

709
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: and twice when they shipped the record, and so the

710
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: factories would go wow. We sold three records in Wellingborough,

711
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: we sold three records in nor Willing Garden City and

712
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: the Rolling the Rolling Stones fans, the small volume that

713
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: they were at the time, was still so devoted that

714
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: they knew we didn't have the money anyway to beat.

715
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: Don't worry about and we'll send you a postluder. No,

716
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. We'll buy the records. And so

717
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: a record it going to got to eighteen for one week.

718
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: But that was the first dent. That was the beginning,

719
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: and DECA was happy, yeah, and so then what what

720
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: happens after that? Then we have to find a follow up,

721
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: and the R and B basket of potential songs is

722
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: getting smaller as people like the Searchers are doing Sweets

723
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: for My Sweet or the B side of the Orance thing,

724
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: which was amazing, you know, I mean in where you're

725
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: finding your songs, Don't throw your Love Away. It was

726
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: a B side by the Orans, and we had nothing

727
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: to record, and one song that I suggested to them,

728
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: which they never got to actually working on, was the

729
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: James Ray thing if you've got to make a fool

730
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: of somebody, but somebody said no. Andrew Freddie and the

731
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: Dreamers did that last week, right, So that was gone

732
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: and it was getting and we were at a rehearsal

733
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: studio in Great Newport Street off Leicester Square, and I

734
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: just kind of think, if you're not contributing to the

735
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: energy of the room, leave and go to the bathroom

736
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: and you're gonna cup of tea do something like that.

737
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: So I leave, I turn right as opposed to the left,

738
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: and I end up outside Leicester Square tube station and

739
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 1: getting out of a cab is John and Paul John

740
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: Lennon and Paul McCartney, and as they knew me slightly

741
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: from the months that we've been together. It was like,

742
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: what's wrong, Andy? And I said, I'm gonna fucking side

743
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: to record with the Rolling Stones. Oh, no problem. They

744
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: were great hustlers. And in those early, very early days,

745
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: let's go backstop for a second with the Beatles have

746
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: made it without Brian Epstein. Okay, I mean look at

747
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: the pattern? What will They were backing Johnny Gentle for

748
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: the guy called Larry Pans who was the gay Colonel

749
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: Tom Parker, with Billy Fury, Marty Wild, Joe Brown and

750
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: all these acts. How would they've made it? If if

751
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean what would if Ed Sullivan hadn't been on

752
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: holiday in Europe? Would he have known what anybody was

753
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: talking about when he was offered the Beatles for the

754
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: Ed Sullivan Show. But he had experienced it because on

755
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: a holiday with his wife, they'd stopped in an airport

756
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: and what is this pandemonium? Oh it's a group called

757
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: the Beatles who are playing there. So these things are

758
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: all destiny, right, So in any event you're seeing they're

759
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: great hustlers. Yeah, but hustlers for what it's like. As

760
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: we were still getting out of the trap that had

761
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: set for us by losing or winning World War two,

762
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: the future if you're not if you weren't part of

763
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: the elite anyway, right, um, you're any day you stay

764
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, oh this is still working, and it was right.

765
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: You know, America changed it. But to see then because

766
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: of our we all idolized America. And you know, I

767
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: could sit and look at a forty five record and

768
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: the credits or the nat hntoff notes for Dylan or whatever,

769
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: and just this could this would just go on forever.

770
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: You know, it would just inspire you. So they hustled

771
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: to see their names on records as writers that of

772
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: records that wouldn't They weren't necessarily going to pay the rent.

773
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: That was not the point. I mean, as you know

774
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: and have said often, if you come in into this

775
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: for the money, right, that's not quite enough. If you

776
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: turn out to be good at money, God bless you, right.

777
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: And so they come down I the moment I Brian

778
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: Jones play the bottleneck on this. I want to be

779
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: a man. I just fucking died when we got to

780
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: hit right, Okay, a little bit slour. You run into

781
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 1: them at the Lusts. So they're getting out of a cab.

782
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: They have just won their first songwriting on it. So

783
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: they're clairvoyant, lely tipsy, okay, and they literally come straight

784
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: to the straight to the studio, not oh, I'll be

785
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: there and tomorrow. No, no, then and then they got

786
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: an Iva Novello Award, which is yours. They demonstrate the

787
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: song and they pretend that, ah, they're finishing it in

788
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: front of us. Ringo had recorded it ten days before, right, um,

789
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: and I, oh, lordy, you know, I mean it was

790
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: the next apparition after having heard them for the first time.

791
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: So I didn't even bother to produce the record. I

792
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: led Eric. I went to Paris. This is my second

793
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 1: nervous breakdown because I wanted a pair of forty pound

794
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: utter leather boots from Pierre Cardin. That would solve my problem.

795
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: I had had. You see, when I worked from Mary

796
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: quant I had had a photographer who was about fifteen

797
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: years older than me. When I was seventeen at Mary

798
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: quants say you know, Andrew, you're an alcoholic, right, And

799
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: I said, Terry, I don't even don't know them. The photographer,

800
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: I said, I don't even drink. He said no, but

801
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: you've got the isms, okay, um, and forty five pound

802
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: boots are part of the isms. Okay, but you disappear

803
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 1: just when the record is being made. Yeah, there's gonna

804
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: be no problem, man, you know, I mean Eric could

805
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: hear the Feliciano could have done it. Oh, he could

806
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: have done He could have done Feliciano could have done

807
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: the video. It was that much of a breeze. I

808
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: mean I heard it in the rehearsal room, um, and

809
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: it was just magic. And how long did you go

810
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: to France for four days? Okay? So you come back

811
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: ready to work, ready to work, and Decca, here's the tracks.

812
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: Excited they put it out and what Decca. The same

813
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: way as when they tried to shaft me out of

814
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: the licensing deal, they would have meetings at ten thirty

815
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: every Tuesday morning where they would decide what they were taking,

816
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: what they were putting out. So even it's still, you

817
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: couldn't call something I got a hit. No, you would

818
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: submit it and it would go into the Tuesday morning

819
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: A and R meeting and then they would call you back.

820
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: It was all very corporate. I didn't see Recau still,

821
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 1: I saw the boot of Sonny Bono's car, or Red

822
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: or Buddha. Those people not put are the ones with Conversutra,

823
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: but and then they would say we're releasing it on November.

824
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: It was all very but just because this is interesting,

825
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: how long afterwards cut did it come out? See cut

826
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: in August? Six weeks? So it comes out? You buy

827
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: a hit or is it an immediate hit? Um? We

828
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: buy it. He goes to douneb the ten. You're on

829
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: the way from eighteen to ten. Let's right, Yes, indeed,

830
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Bob left Sets. If you stumbled

831
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: upon this podcast on iTunes or tune in, you may

832
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: be wondering who is this guy. Well, my story of

833
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: the story of my blog, The Left Sets Letter was

834
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: told in episode one. Please check it out. If you

835
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast today and

836
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: you'll hear my interviews with songwriters, performers, music industry and

837
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: tech executives. First, also, I'm a what a feedback? What

838
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: do you like? What do you hate? Email me at

839
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: Bob and left sets dot com and now more with

840
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 1: Andrew lou Goldham. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left

841
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: Sets Podcast. My guest today is literally the legendary. They

842
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: say legendary about a lot of people, but this guy

843
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: is legendary Andrew Luke Oldham. I remember getting email the

844
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: first time about the turn of the century, said Andrew

845
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: Luke Goldham, saw him on the back of all those

846
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: Stones album covers. It's like great to have you here here,

847
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bob. Good to be with you again our

848
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: second round. Right. Well, as I say, I went to

849
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: bow Guitar in September often and I knew that Andrew

850
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: was there and we connected. That was the best place,

851
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: certainly I've been to this century, maybe ever, in that

852
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: you really feel vibrantly alive in bo guitar. Tell the

853
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: audience how you ended up in bow guitar. I went

854
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: in at the end of nineteen four in London to

855
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: a theater that was showing a musical comedy called John Paul, George,

856
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: Ringo and Bert, written by a guy called William Willie Russell.

857
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: I had no idea what it was about. One probably

858
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: because the condition I arrived in at the theater, and

859
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: two that the condition was accelerated by there being this

860
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: lady m in front of me in the theater who

861
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: had now been married to forty one years. But I

862
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: was just all I can tell you about that show

863
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: was her neck and we spent time together. I was

864
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: living in New York at the time, and she came

865
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: to visit me in New York. She went back to

866
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: Columbia and I followed her. Okay, and since we're on Columbia,

867
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: what is the situation with the fark. Supposedly peace was

868
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: made in Colombia. Is it really peace? For those don't know,

869
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: there's been decades of a revolutionary army terrorizing clausing her

870
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: unrest in Columbia, but supposedly piece has been made. I

871
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't call them revolutionary. They're basically businessmen and fatigues because

872
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: their main business over the last thirty years was drugs.

873
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: They took over the drug business once Escobar was killed

874
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: and the other towns couldn't stand up to the pressure

875
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: of the FARC and the e l N, the other

876
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: ones who they've still no peace with. UM and kidnapping

877
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: and drug expectation was their main business for the last

878
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: thirty years. The president that we that we have Santos

879
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: once he got his Nobel prize. Man, you know he's

880
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,959
Speaker 1: just left Columbia. He will just leave Columbia to sort

881
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: it out. So you've got UM anywhere from twelve to

882
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: twenty thousand men or kids. I would think the kids

883
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: are more the danger because if you've just been raised

884
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: that you don't know much more about life than to

885
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: rape and pillage. What are you going to be an

886
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: uber driver? So they've got that that's going to take

887
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: the amount of money that has been put aside in

888
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: a country that is just it's the fifth world now, Bob,

889
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. It's not the third world anymore.

890
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: So it's gotten worse where the rest of us have

891
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: pulled ahead. You think you've pulled ahead. Oh well, this

892
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: is another conversation. I'd be glad to have another podcast,

893
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: but what's going on in our country? But my point

894
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 1: is for those most people have not been to Columbia,

895
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: never might have been to South America. We're Americans, have passports.

896
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 1: So the question would become is now, in the last

897
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: twenty years and now with peace with the farc generally speaking,

898
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: is the economy better or worse? I think that's the

899
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: one thing that's common with the rest of the world

900
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: is the the middle class is being suppressed out of

901
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: any remaining pesto or dollar they've got, which is going

902
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: on everywhere. So it's got better for those who had

903
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: it better anyway. So it's literally just like the rest

904
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 1: of the world exactly. I mean, we looked better because

905
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, we we were for a while until your

906
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: recent change, Donny, Donny it we were the only friend

907
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: that North America had with I mean, we were the

908
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: only everything else was, you know. I mean, but Venezuela

909
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: at one time changed his clock half an hour, so

910
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't. But they're all we we were the one

911
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: that America was going to because you can all spend

912
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: so much money and give us so much money for

913
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: supposedly eradicating drugs. I've never voted, so I'm pretty cynical

914
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: about the whole um system. Well, then I have to

915
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: ask his as they said, we're talking all these political things,

916
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: but what is your view of Brexit in the European Union. Um, again,

917
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: you've got David Cameron behaved exactly the way that our president. Okay,

918
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: I've done it, I got my Nobel Prize. I'm off

919
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: he did the Brexit thing. He left and isn't that

920
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: too to two years ago at least? Um, it's uh,

921
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: it's a horrendous mess. I think it would be better

922
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: if they didn't do it. And I think that could

923
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: that could happen. It'd be interesting. I was actually was

924
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: hanging with Billy Bragg, who's very political. He thought it

925
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: might I want to read his book, right, skiffle book?

926
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, he sent it to me. Um, but before

927
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: our audience, I don't want to know who you are, okay, okay,

928
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: your most legendary for the Rolling Stones Immediate records. And

929
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: it goes on for Tony Calder recently, Yes he did,

930
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: he was a partner in the media, and yes he was. Okay,

931
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: but as I say, you are born in what year?

932
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: So through the fifties, whereas music your focus or did you?

933
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: Were you an opportunist? How did you end up getting

934
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: into the music scene in the early sixties through fashion?

935
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: Because I mean, I mean I left school at sixteen.

936
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: The first job was at sixteen. Um, and I wish

937
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: so many more kids could leave school of sixteen. You know,

938
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: education as a crime, but we won't go there. I

939
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: would like to go there. I think. You know, education

940
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: is basically to keep people in line as supposed to

941
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: be creative exactly exactly. You know, to it's not going

942
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: to work at six is criminal? But um, then on

943
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: all was blessed as we who were kicked out and

944
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: had to get on with it right. But when I

945
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: did that in the first place, I wanted to work

946
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: where the carpets were thick and the teacups were thin.

947
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: I landed up with a lady called Mary Kwant, legendary

948
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: fashion design who had a sort of karma such or

949
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: redbird records of fashion that worked in that her husband

950
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: was the hustler. She cut and did the clothes, the

951
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: husband hustled and sold. And they also had an old

952
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: school friend who made sure they got paid school interesting euphemism. Anyway,

953
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,959
Speaker 1: it worked and I had a great education. The pop

954
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: that the fashion business was THEO what was your gig with?

955
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: And you just showed up and say I'll do anything

956
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: that you hired you? I mean, I just that's the place.

957
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,919
Speaker 1: I don't want to knock on one door. I don't

958
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: like this committee business even now. I think you've got

959
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: to pick where you want to go and go there. Okay, well,

960
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: what was your spiel? There's such that she hired you.

961
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: You know, I can never remember the actual moments of

962
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: because I'm so fucking nervous going in like that. I

963
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: know it works, but I can't somebody else in the

964
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: room would have to tell you what my picture. Okay,

965
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: you go into a zone when the whole situation exactly

966
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: In any event, she does hire, she has me. I

967
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: last there for eight or nine months because uh, and

968
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: we're in what year? This is sixty one, And I

969
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: then start taking a job in the nights working at

970
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: the original Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club, and my job there

971
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: was hanged. Was that another thing where you said I

972
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: have to work at Ronnie Scott's. Oh, yes, because I've

973
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: been given a great education of music when I was

974
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: about eleven by a guy next door. During the years

975
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: where you could sit for a guy next door and

976
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: not get molested. Is that because the it's because they

977
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: didn't molest you, or the cops weren't there. You didn't

978
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 1: have the we're all stars even though we're a star

979
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 1: molester or were start you know, the rights of entitlement

980
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: where you think you've got the right to intrude on

981
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: somebody else. There was less of that. Although the other thing,

982
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: of course is I mean, we know that's against the law,

983
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: but being gay was against the law anyway, right, But

984
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: you can't even touch another kid if you put it.

985
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's amazing world we live in, but

986
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: any even you're with your next door neighbor. And so

987
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: when I was eleven, he ran me through everything from

988
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: uh Anna Jamal to Bob Crosby and the you know,

989
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,479
Speaker 1: the Brother of Being Crossed, the Bobcats, the the Red

990
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: Novo Um. The one thing that really made a dent

991
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: on my mind and on Lou Adler because he used

992
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: it as the prototype for Carol King was George Sharing

993
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: with Peggy Lee live in Chicago. It's really I mean,

994
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: I don't know that record. I certainly know those people,

995
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: beauty and the beat. Okay, if I track that record down,

996
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hear Tapestry. Okay, sound it's there. It's there.

997
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: Um great, especially with the instrumental Sat and Sat and

998
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: Doll on it, which I think it's George Sharing Quintint

999
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: and Peggy. Um. So I went to work for Ronnie Scott's.

1000
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: I hung the coats, I got the Pakistani food from

1001
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: over the road as they didn't have a food license. Uh.

1002
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: Then I kind of got greedy and I went to

1003
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: work the midnight to five am shift at the Flamingo Club,

1004
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: which was owned by a guy called Jeff Krueger who

1005
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: had Amberg records, but he rented the place out that

1006
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: night to the Gunnell brothers, who might have heard of

1007
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: from Chris Farlows money and all this kind of And

1008
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: I served the whiskey and the coat bottles because if

1009
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: the cops came in and he looked innocent and looked

1010
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: like he wouldn't be serving scotch um. And so I

1011
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: did that. Then basically I had my first nervous breakdown. Um,

1012
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: the others don't count. The first one is the most important. Okay,

1013
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: So your how old when you have your first nervous

1014
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: break sixty one? I'm seventeen. And how do you know

1015
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: you're having a nervous break Were you've taken on too much?

1016
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: Too much? Three jobs in a week is And do

1017
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: you feel building you're building up to it or you

1018
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: just freak out at one point building up? Then I

1019
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it freak out. Then you decide travel will

1020
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: be the cure. So I went to the south of France.

1021
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, kind of like the Rod Stewart's song.

1022
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: You know, every picture tells the story, Oh yeah, yeah,

1023
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: and I kind of, Um, I ended up there and

1024
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting being back in this location because in a

1025
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: restaurant up there this past spring, I was able to

1026
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: say hello for the first time to Johnny Hallity really

1027
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: before he passed. Yes, Because when I was seventeen, it

1028
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: was a very good year and I worked in Joan

1029
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: Lapin at an English tea room, serving tea of course um.

1030
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: And at the end of the block he was already

1031
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: in a white tux playing the casino and he was

1032
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: only nine months or eight eight months older than me,

1033
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: and I went, wow, yeah, first of you go, you

1034
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: don't go something's wrong, but you go, well, there's hope, man,

1035
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: you know. I mean the other rockers like Eddie Mitchell

1036
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: and Dick Rivers were playing cafes, and I was attracted

1037
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: to all. As bad as French rock is, I was

1038
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: attracted to it because it wasn't as personally bad as

1039
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 1: English rock was at the time. Cliff Cliff, Richard, Billy

1040
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: Fury right, you know, they were only they only had

1041
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: an American accent when they sung um. And so I

1042
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: preferred the French New Wave in the movies. I preferred

1043
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: their rook you know, and all that. With Johnny Hallity,

1044
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: and I'd seen him a couple of times in the

1045
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: two thousands in Marseilles, which was a town that when

1046
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: I was seventeen I couldn't go to it was too rough.

1047
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: Then well, in my job, I didn't have a job,

1048
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: I was begging off English tourists literally begging, oh yeah,

1049
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: begging in that the pitch went into Okay. Mainly the

1050
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: ones who ended up in those areas of south of

1051
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: France were the Jewish world to do out of London,

1052
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: who knew how to get money out for the holiday

1053
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: because you're only allowed to take fifty pounds away. And

1054
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: so you remember when newspapers or magazine used to arrive

1055
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: rolled up, of course the money would go in there

1056
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: and it would actually turn up at your hotel. Wow, okay,

1057
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: and I would put on an accent that appealed to them,

1058
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: which I'm moving into now, and I would excuse me,

1059
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: but my allowance hasn't arrived from my mother, and I

1060
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: wonder if you could lend me, if I could borrow

1061
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: ten or twenty francs, and if you tell me which

1062
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: hotel you're in, And I did, depended on whether I

1063
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: thought they were worth paying back. But the rest of

1064
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: it went to my water skiing lessons. Okay, so you're

1065
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: in the south of France and you meet Johnny Holliday.

1066
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: No I don't meet him. I saw him from Afar

1067
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: and you got inspired. And then how long are you

1068
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: in France before you return to the island until the

1069
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: season runs up? And I'm now I got involved in

1070
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: slight Mickey mouse type of kidnapping there where I ran

1071
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: into a photographer who recently passed, a great guy called

1072
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: Philip Town's End and he said, look, if you will

1073
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: keep this heiress locked up, she's still around. I can't

1074
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: remember his lady something right. We can sell the stories

1075
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: to the stringers of the newspapers like the Daily Mail stringer,

1076
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: the Express string and things like that. And the girl

1077
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: was willing, so it wasn't really it's alway scared, of course,

1078
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: but unfortunately her father had the powers to install a

1079
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: scheduled de notice on the newspapers, which was is the

1080
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: English way of of a newspaper, can't print something it's

1081
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: against the public interest. At that time it was used

1082
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: for government thing, but he used it so we couldn't

1083
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: say let the girl go or she We said it's over.

1084
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: And by November, with the season, I'm going around knocking

1085
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: on the doors of the stringers who didn't buy the stories,

1086
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: getting cash from them, and then from an English vicar.

1087
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: I let the English take my passport away pay for

1088
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: me to go home. When I started again, Mary quant

1089
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: said I can't give you your job back and drew,

1090
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: but I'll tell you where you can get a job.

1091
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: And she sent me to a guy called Peter Hope Lumley,

1092
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: whose mother had been a lady in waiting for the Queen,

1093
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: and he represented doing pr all of the guy who

1094
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: made the shoes for the Queen, Edward Rain Norman Hartnell,

1095
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: who made the dresses, hardy amies who made prince and stuff.

1096
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: So I had a very good education there and then

1097
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: fell into pr It was not something you said, um well,

1098
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: the sweet smell of success helped me, you know, right,

1099
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: And then pop was I got my first I was

1100
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: I gotta. I had to get a job to please

1101
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: my mother that was real pr as opposed to the

1102
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: pansy royal type of stuff that very I mean, that

1103
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: was her opinion. So I took a job at a

1104
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: regular place to please my mother, who did things like

1105
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: the British Men's Work Guild hated it, and I started

1106
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: taking pop. Clients on the first were like Mark Wynter

1107
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: who covered the venus and blue jeans and go with

1108
01:03:54,760 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: a little girl, Kenny Lynch who covered up on the roof. Um.

1109
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: And then in the way, how did you get connected

1110
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: with them? You just knock on the door man, you know,

1111
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: I mean, um, and yeah, I mean it's it was

1112
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: a simpler time. You find out that Bob Dylan is

1113
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: staying in the Cumberland hotel in January, either December of

1114
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: sixty January brought to England and the freakish or circumstances.

1115
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: The television director nobody really knew who he was. Then

1116
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: goes on holiday to New York, sees him in the

1117
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: village is doing a Jack London play for for the BBC.

1118
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,919
Speaker 1: The BBC and says, look, there's this folks singer I saw.

1119
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: I'd like him to be doing the Mad House of

1120
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: Carroll Street or something like that, right, Um, and says

1121
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: I think he would be good in the background, singing

1122
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 1: in the background. The tapes are wiped, they don't exist anymore. Wow,

1123
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know this story, okay. And so he

1124
01:04:55,160 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: turns up in England with Albert Grossman and that's the

1125
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: manager for the listeners, for the listeners who were not

1126
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: steeped in sixties history. Okay, well he's the manager, right,

1127
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: and well, I mean, you know the genius of it,

1128
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: the that without Peter, I mean Peter Paul and Mary. Well,

1129
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: let's go back to the thing without Albert Grossman. Does

1130
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan make it? No? Right? Of course? Not, no, no.

1131
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: And I threw a guy at the Melody Maker, which

1132
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: was one of our four musical papers which came out

1133
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: every week. Yes it did, but it was the most

1134
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: jazz and folk of the elders were basically pop, right,

1135
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: And I went and knocked on the door, and I

1136
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: got the gig. I got the gig for ten the

1137
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: ten days they were there, probably I got You were

1138
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: the pr guy for Bob Don't now? Was he? So

1139
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: he was in that musical? Well, it's a television play,

1140
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: and and while the plays it's a Jack London thing.

1141
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: And while the play is going on at certain parts

1142
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: during yet he's playing the guitar in the background. So

1143
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: the actors got you know, where you and I are talking,

1144
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: he's at the corner playing. But he's not doing any

1145
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 1: independent gigs or is He took him around London. He

1146
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: got to places like the jazz stores, the record stores,

1147
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: Dobell's Jazz and things like that. But the only gig

1148
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: was the television show. And one has to ask was

1149
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 1: he is enigmatic or was he you know, wet behind

1150
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: the years at that point they never are man Otherwise

1151
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been with Albert Gross, right, I mean

1152
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: the the I spent twenty minutes with him in the hotel. Um,

1153
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: and that Bob Dylan is the Bob Dylan you've got

1154
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: now fully formed, fully formed, Okay, so you do the

1155
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 1: gig with Dylan and yeah. But the point is that

1156
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: when I'm in the room with them and I'm watching

1157
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: this celestial marriage between the two of them, you know,

1158
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: you've you know, when you've been there, when it's worked. Um,

1159
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going for whatever this is, I want it, okay,

1160
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: because there's no don't don't come out and go. I've

1161
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: got to find an act that never came into it.

1162
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 1: I just carried on what I was doing and at

1163
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: that beginning of sixty three, so I had Bob Dylan

1164
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: for ten days. Then through one of my more pop clients,

1165
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: I was in a television show with Mark Winter and

1166
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: he was promoting go Away a Little Girl, his second single,

1167
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: the Steve Lawrence Thing here and the Beatles were doing

1168
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: their second record Please Please Me, and so um I

1169
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: walked up to John Lennam and said who handles you?

1170
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: And he said, oh, the guy at the Paisley Scarf

1171
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: in the corner. And I went over and got the

1172
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: gig to do their pr in London because the Beatles

1173
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: or Brian Epstein's operation was still based in Liverpool and

1174
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: in the beginning of three you didn't make long distance

1175
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: phone calls selling a crew. I still remember that when

1176
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: you used to pay by the minute, right, so you

1177
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: might over a funeral. A bus would be a letter,

1178
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I got the gig. Somebody else had

1179
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,759
Speaker 1: a guy called Tony Barrow. Have you heard of him. Yeah.

1180
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: He had a very oppressive version of the gig because

1181
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: he worked at Decca, which is you know, was that

1182
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 1: not the Beatles record prompody? And when Decca closed at

1183
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 1: five o'clock he would use the printers, the stamps and

1184
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: the envelopes to mail out Beatles stuff to people. He

1185
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 1: never got on the blower, never got on the phone.

1186
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: I did all of that, and in fact, when Paul

1187
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: McCartney was in Boguitar about four years ago and I

1188
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: was in the room with him and he introduced me

1189
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 1: to his wife as this is Andrew, our first press agent.

1190
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,879
Speaker 1: And I thought it might be a trick British question,

1191
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: and I said, well, what about Tony Barry? He said, well,

1192
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: that's another story, and that I was the first one

1193
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: who was able to go on the street for them.

1194
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: I would have them during the four months I was

1195
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: with them. I would have them like for a day

1196
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: every ten days. And because of the roller decks of

1197
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: fashion that I had walked away with from Mary Quant

1198
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: and Peter Hope Lumley, I could get them in a

1199
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: wider range of places than exactly. So one has to

1200
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: ask is you know, of course, because it was literally

1201
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: an invasion in America, when you're working with the Beatles,

1202
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: do you sense that this is a turning point for

1203
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: them and it's going to be a revolution or it's

1204
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: just another popular there's a night in the in those days,

1205
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,560
Speaker 1: the same way as you had the Dick Clark and

1206
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: that what we had was different promoters, including the father

1207
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: of Sharon Osborne and other people like other House and

1208
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: Tito Burns, put On um shows that were touring England,

1209
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 1: the cinemas would close for the night and you as

1210
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: they were all old theaters who have been considered to

1211
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: being converted to cinemas. Ah, they do two shows a night.

1212
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:07,520
Speaker 1: And the Beatles started out on a bill in February

1213
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 1: of nine, three of which top of the bill was

1214
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: Chris Montez, Tommy Row and a British singer the straight

1215
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: version of Amy Winehouse Helen Shapiro, Same thing comes, same

1216
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: town of town, mustache, you know, nice Jewish girl from

1217
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,480
Speaker 1: North London but without the smack right, and had hits

1218
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 1: like six huge top ten records walking back to Happiness

1219
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 1: in the sixty that were huge, and the beginning of

1220
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: the tour, the Beatles were bottom of the bill and

1221
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: by the time and it moved north to the tour,

1222
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: and by the time he got north, they the top

1223
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: of the bill that with because of the span and

1224
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: the effect of please please me. And in answer to

1225
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: your question, there was one night in the Granada, Bedford

1226
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: where the fans were starting to break the windows from

1227
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: the outside and that didn't even really go on. For

1228
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 1: even Johnny Ray, who was a huge influence, I mean

1229
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: he was before Elvis for all of us. But that

1230
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: night I stood at the back of the theater with

1231
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: Brian Epstein and Okay, there may have been hundred kids

1232
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: or eight hundred, whatever it was, but we both heard

1233
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:26,839
Speaker 1: the whole world. You knew that was the moment. Okay.

1234
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,879
Speaker 1: So you work with them for a number of months

1235
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: until the Rolling Stones. Okay, so very slowly. How do

1236
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: you end up connecting with the Rolling Stones? Very slowly? Um?

1237
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: I used to go to hustle journalists at the Record

1238
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: Mirror at a pub called d MS off Shaftesbury Avenue.

1239
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: That was a great guy, and he recently passed, called

1240
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: Peter Jones, and he said to me, when I'm joying hustling,

1241
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: and christ I did was doing Chris Montez as well.

1242
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: Americans came through, Sam Cooke, little Richard, all this right, Um,

1243
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: I just didn't want a regular job. He wanted to continue.

1244
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: My mother was wrong, you know, right? And I um, uh, listen,

1245
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: he says. Andrew said, you know our musical papers called

1246
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: Record Mirror, which means we only write about people who

1247
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 1: have records. But there's this young R and B fan

1248
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: writer who works for us called Norman Jopling, and he's

1249
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,879
Speaker 1: so enthusiastic about this band in Richmond, that we're actually

1250
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 1: going to publish a piece in a couple of weeks,

1251
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: a small piece, but nonetheless a piece or a group

1252
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a record, called the Rolling Stones. He said,

1253
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 1: I think you should go and see him, And I thought,

1254
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 1: is he trying to get rid of me? Or does

1255
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: he have my best interests? And I, even though I'd

1256
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: been in the room with Dylan and Grossman, I didn't

1257
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: actually want to be a manager. I was fine. And

1258
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: I then thought, and then on Sunday nights we would

1259
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: have our equivalent of the At Sullivan Show, the Sunday

1260
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: night of the London Palladium. And Sunday was staying at home.

1261
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: You know, my mother on my shirts better than I did,

1262
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 1: and so you paid lip service while that process of

1263
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: the trousers and your Chelsea boots got polished, and you

1264
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: at and then you watched the Yeah right, And that

1265
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: was Sunday right, and I was I thought, well, if

1266
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: I don't go, how can I turn up the next

1267
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: Tuesday and hustling? Right? So manners it was that had

1268
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: me and I found out I could. I didn't have

1269
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: to step all the way into town. I could go

1270
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 1: out on the override trains to Richmond, and I got

1271
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,839
Speaker 1: to Richmond station. It was Georgia Gamelski who promoted these gigs,

1272
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: who also died just a couple of years ago, that's right,

1273
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: and he thought he managed them. Um. But then in

1274
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: the world where you know, there are no accidents. Um,

1275
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: his father died in Switzerland and so he nobody was

1276
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: minding the short at the store. These gigs he put

1277
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: on in the back of the station hotel. So I

1278
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:25,560
Speaker 1: went in and I kind of um fell in love. Um.

1279
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 1: One of the great ah parts of it was that

1280
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: I really had no real affinity for your actual rhythm

1281
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: and blues. I mean, Libra and Stollar was my you know,

1282
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 1: the drifters was my you know. Um. So I didn't

1283
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: walk in there as others might have and go, oh god,

1284
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: they don't do that Willie Dixson thing. Very well, it

1285
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: was all fucking magic to you know. This wave came

1286
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 1: over me and I knew that. That's why coming up

1287
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: with an ext pressure there a way of life was

1288
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: it was easy because they had already been saturated with it. Um,

1289
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 1: and you know they were sitting down really performing. Yeah,

1290
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: they were, but welcome because it gave you if you've

1291
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: got the sweater with the holes in it and you're

1292
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: that left wing that you're left slightly socialist for you're

1293
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: lining yourselves up with sharecroppers, which I've always found a

1294
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: little difficult for white middle class boys going to art

1295
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: school or university. Um. But nonetheless, so to make it

1296
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 1: look more authentic, didn't have enough movements to lot to

1297
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: go through that Actu's show standing up as yet, but

1298
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 1: there was on stools like rhythm and blues people and

1299
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: and or jazzes or whatever, and so you had that

1300
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:48,719
Speaker 1: which people forget as the revisionism changes or time changes everything.

1301
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: You had a front line of Brian, Mick and Keith

1302
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: and it was just so visually, which was always top

1303
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: of my list anyway, because coming out of fashion, and

1304
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 1: I mean when we started this conversation, he said, clothes

1305
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: went with the music. What's the point of listening to

1306
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: the music if, um, somebody doesn't know what you like?

1307
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you must have had your own equivalent of that.

1308
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: What you liked and how you looked told everybody who

1309
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: you were, of course. I mean in the early sixties

1310
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: was gen indeed, and the Beach Boys, no matter where

1311
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: you lived. I mean you have the striped shirts and

1312
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 1: the blue sneakers, and before these English bands hit the

1313
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 1: shores and then we all grew are here. Happened in

1314
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: Europe too, I mean there were like every country except

1315
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: France had its own version of the South America to

1316
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: his own version of the Stones and the Beatles. It

1317
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 1: became It's finished in sixty when nobody had rolls Royces

1318
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: or six months in Ebbey Road to make a record.

1319
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: But while they were like banging out studio records, in fact,

1320
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: the people who were the locals, say the Wehedish Stones

1321
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: would be on the shows with us, would they be

1322
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 1: basically imitating your material? Yes, that's very strange. Let's go

1323
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 1: back to his club. So you're in the club, you

1324
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 1: go to see him the first time, you have the

1325
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: epiphany the first time. Yes, and you go and talk

1326
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: to the band. Yes, I do, And what do you say?

1327
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: Um again? I don't remember. Well, did you pitch him

1328
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: as a pr person and I pitched him as a manager.

1329
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: I know I pitched them without stating what I was

1330
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 1: pitching them about, to say I want to work with you.

1331
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 1: And were they receptive? Why do you think they were

1332
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 1: receptive because of you, or because no one had approached him,

1333
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: or Gomeshi was right all of those reasons. And I'm

1334
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:43,959
Speaker 1: gonna you know, I mean I was younger than them somewhat.

1335
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:49,759
Speaker 1: Um uh. You know, did they think at the time

1336
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 1: this was it? Was this a lark? Or was this

1337
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: a lifetime employment? Nothing was a lifetime? Then, nothing was

1338
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:57,600
Speaker 1: a lifetime until February the eighth or whatever the day is.

1339
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: The beat was a beard on that sell of them. Right.

1340
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: So now you're also talking about to the era certainly

1341
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: pre internet but also pre calling. So they're not playing

1342
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 1: again to the following Sunday night, right, No, they would

1343
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: play in on Wednesday nights and another at a different place. Um.

1344
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 1: I didn't see them again though, until the next Sunday.

1345
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: And at that stage I had a huge dilemma. I mean,

1346
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: a week was a wonderful amount of time. You know.

1347
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: Then right now, he's just waiting for somebody to call

1348
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 1: you back, right. Um. In that manners decreed that I

1349
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: would offer them to Brian Epstein because I was still

1350
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: working for him, and I was not only the Beatles.

1351
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: I was doing the beginning of Billy J. Kramer Stilla

1352
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 1: Black was going to be in a month I've done.

1353
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: I had been up to um Liverpool and met his

1354
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 1: next find who he is sure told me, and this

1355
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: was true, They're gonna have a number one record during

1356
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: the placemakers And I looked at these scrafts, man, you know,

1357
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 1: the coats looked like they were made out of liner um.

1358
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: And he was right because of the song that the

1359
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: song that the Beatles had to central We're not doing

1360
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 1: it right, the Mitch Murray's song how do you? How

1361
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 1: do you do it? So I went, you know, I

1362
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: knew it wouldn't work with Ryan Empstein because he was

1363
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 1: already getting a bit right um obsessed. So I probably

1364
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: went like, well, Bron not like Mick doing much and

1365
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,719
Speaker 1: he passed and a guy who Ago. But you actually

1366
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: got to the point where you said, I have this,

1367
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: if you're interested, can we share it? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah,

1368
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: you do. Wonder sold it so much you said I'm

1369
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: not interested. I don't know if he was listening, but

1370
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 1: I still did what I wouldn't about yourself, he said,

1371
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: I gave him a shot. I wouldn't use those words.

1372
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 1: I did the right thing, right, okay? Um? And that

1373
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: then the editor of the melody maker. Guy called Jack

1374
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: Hutton said, had already said to me about am before

1375
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: when you need an office, Andrew, I know this, uh

1376
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: failed organist didn't say that. The guy used to be

1377
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 1: play organ and the Blackpool tre and then you know

1378
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:11,759
Speaker 1: it changed his name to Eric Easton. He was another

1379
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 1: actually another Epstein Eastman, one of those the names. Because

1380
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: you're now dealing with the wonderful as with my mother's

1381
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: boy with the last generation of Jews in England who

1382
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:26,679
Speaker 1: manicured up and became British, you know, so they didn't

1383
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: there were you know, you wanted to belong. So he

1384
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: was now Eric Easton. He was an agent and he

1385
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 1: managed a guitarist called Bert Weeden, a disc jockey. It

1386
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 1: was very level c but I got an office from

1387
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: him for four pounds a week and all no Andrew

1388
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: the long distance phone calls. All of the country was

1389
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: all about the long distance phone calls. And because he

1390
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: was an agent and I just did mouth um, I

1391
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: actually probably would not have got the Rolling Stones if

1392
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 1: I hadn't made him the first partner I had in

1393
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: it before the Towers of Babel in America. Um, and

1394
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,639
Speaker 1: he was became their agent. He became the co manager

1395
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,719
Speaker 1: with me and the age. So when they were playing

1396
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: the club, they didn't have an agent. Okay, somebody was.

1397
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 1: You've got those two structures of England trad jazz is

1398
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: poor relative skiffle. I mean, you know from the Billy

1399
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: Brag book, the history of how the Lonnie Donegan records

1400
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: came out of all of that stuff, and how the

1401
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,600
Speaker 1: people who controlled the club circuits. I mean either the

1402
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,719
Speaker 1: promoters like Harold Pendleton Georgia with his sort of left

1403
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 1: wing oasis that he would run um frowned on rhythm

1404
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 1: and blues. It was a poor relative, but it did

1405
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: seem to be attracting younger people than the traditional jazz

1406
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 1: bands like Humphrey Littleton and Chris barber Head. So it's

1407
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: a week later and you show up with at the

1408
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 1: gig and you tell the Stones what I now, show

1409
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,880
Speaker 1: up with Eric Houston, and then we signed them and

1410
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 1: because of mine, and when you signed them, you literally

1411
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: have a piece of paper. No, they came in the office.

1412
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 1: Brian was the leader, and so Brian would come in

1413
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: for the negotiations and Charlie and Bill had jobs. Um

1414
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 1: Mcinkeith didn't good and they would sit at Lion's Corner

1415
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: house on the corner of a couple of black teas,

1416
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 1: and wait for what Brian had determined with Eric and me,

1417
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: and and because of my knowledge of America through mainly

1418
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 1: Jim Lee who had Chris Montez, but then Bob Crew

1419
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 1: and my knowledge of Phil Specter, we signed them for

1420
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 1: the management and the records. Okay for those people who

1421
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 1: don't know, And this is becomes very important, especially in

1422
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:46,600
Speaker 1: the history of the Rolling Stones. It was licensed to

1423
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 1: the label. You owned the records. Anybody else in the

1424
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: UK have that deal at that time they did, so

1425
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 1: it was not incredibly uncommon. No, but because it was

1426
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: incredibly uncommon, but because I was younger than all the rest,

1427
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: it would get noticed. All the rest. You had a

1428
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: pecking order of Joe Meek, who did tell star Um

1429
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: who you could call, and he cut acts for Robert

1430
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: Stigwood like John Layton and things like that. They did it,

1431
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:18,760
Speaker 1: but they had actually learned it from a guy called

1432
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:22,759
Speaker 1: Dennis Preston who had He'll be in that book Landsdown Studios,

1433
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: who did Chris Barber. Therefore Lonnie Donegan. They were all

1434
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: independent records. So once again you became a student of

1435
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 1: the business. How did you know this? When I would

1436
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: be doing pr for anybody from like Johnny Tillottson or

1437
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 1: Brian Highland or ah Sam Cook and little Richard. I

1438
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: wanted to meet the managers man because they would travel

1439
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: with the acts and you just you know, I mean

1440
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: America was it for me from Saul Bass? The posters

1441
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: for those awful out of Parmeger films. The posters were

1442
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:59,839
Speaker 1: better than the films. And you know, I mean anything

1443
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:04,759
Speaker 1: ammunition and the knowledge that comes in all the instinct

1444
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 1: that gets developed by studying these things. You don't don't

1445
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 1: actually have to look at a book and read it

1446
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 1: and get what's in the book. You just have to

1447
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 1: hold it and well, this is very well articulated. This

1448
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: is what people don't understand. They go to music schools,

1449
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: they think they can learn it. It's more about your sensibility.

1450
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 1: Match with a passion and eyes wide open, you can

1451
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 1: feel something. Especially all the greats in the music business

1452
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 1: are not educated people. There are people who operate on field.

1453
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: So in any event, you make a deal with the stones,

1454
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:39,720
Speaker 1: and how long is that deal is supposed to run? Oh,

1455
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 1: three or five years? Three to three? You have a

1456
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 1: lawyer who are or Easton just takes out the usual

1457
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: piece of and they say they're in okay, and you

1458
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 1: say you're gonna make them and what is the next step.

1459
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,839
Speaker 1: The next step is the pub called the weather be Arms.

1460
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:58,719
Speaker 1: They used to rehearse. And I just said to me, listen,

1461
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: pick out five things that you think of the most commercial.

1462
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 1: Plays them to me, and then we'll pick three and

1463
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: we'll go and record them. And so there was Come On,

1464
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,760
Speaker 1: which was a Chuck Berry b side Willie Dixon thing

1465
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:14,639
Speaker 1: I want to be Loved. I can't remember the third thing.

1466
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: And so we went to Olympic Studios, which at that

1467
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,639
Speaker 1: time was near Marble Arch and it was a four

1468
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: track studio with whose money? Eric's, yeah, you don't have

1469
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: any I don't have any money, Dar, And if I

1470
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: did it, I'd be wearing it. But let's be clear.

1471
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: You were the producer, for want of a better word, Okay, Well,

1472
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: what would you consider your role to be at those No,

1473
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: I do concern I am the only one if they

1474
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 1: had gone through the system. Where As you know from

1475
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: the pictures you've seen from Abbey Row, you everybody gets

1476
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: what they deserved. The Beatles got what they should have

1477
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 1: In other words, they've got a very competent George Martin,

1478
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: who had a musical experience as well. The engineer, Norman

1479
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 1: Smith knew about another kind of music, so all those

1480
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: elements could come into the Beatles when they needed it.

1481
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: What we had to get away from was the fact

1482
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,559
Speaker 1: that acts before us, the English rockers and things like that,

1483
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,600
Speaker 1: you'd have a three hour session. They wouldn't even let

1484
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 1: him listen back to what they've done. You know. It

1485
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,799
Speaker 1: was just run like a shop steward, like a union

1486
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 1: thing um. And the engineer was a guy called Roger Savage.

1487
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,640
Speaker 1: They give me the kid an olympic um. We had

1488
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 1: the forty quid three hours, three hours are up at

1489
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:37,480
Speaker 1: five to six, and I got no more money. Right?

1490
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:41,679
Speaker 1: Recordings weren't that good? Right? I mean, but they weren't.

1491
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: They were less terrified with me than they would have

1492
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 1: been with a guy who might have been seven years older,

1493
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 1: who would have felt like fifty years old. Did you

1494
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 1: give them any direction? No? Interestingly, when I eventually listened

1495
01:26:55,080 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 1: to the chuck Berry record, the vocals a spot, I mean,

1496
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they you think, almost think that

1497
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: Mick was on the chuck Berry record sing in the

1498
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 1: backup right five six. I went, all right, that's it.

1499
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: Engineers says, well, we got to mix it, and I said,

1500
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: what's that And he explained to me about the four

1501
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 1: channels or the four tracks it was on. And my

1502
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 1: attitude was if I'm not here, I don't have to

1503
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 1: pay for it. So I said, you do it. I'll

1504
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: come back in the morning. Um the and that was

1505
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 1: the first single. Then then Decker tried to fund me. Okay, well, well,

1506
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 1: well a little bit slower. So you cut these three

1507
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 1: tracks and then how does it become a single? What's

1508
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 1: the deal? Okay, we had gone to Decca because they

1509
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 1: turned down the Beatles and actually fact one of the

1510
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: A and R men, as you know, picked brian Pool

1511
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: and the Trammelas because it was nearer. It was Daggingham,

1512
01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: it was it was nearer than the Beatles being in Liverpool.

1513
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 1: But anyway, Dick Roe was a very bright man, the

1514
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 1: R man. There was no no He just said, yeah,

1515
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: I'll take it right on the least deal. But they tried,

1516
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: as you know what I mean, for the sake of

1517
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 1: your viewers. The least deal is you know, you're got

1518
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: to get ten points or eight points to play with

1519
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 1: us opposed to three or four or two or three,

1520
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 1: and but he wanted to try and get them signed

1521
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: as a direct act, so he said, yeah, yeah, but

1522
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,920
Speaker 1: the recording is not that good. We want to let

1523
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 1: one of our producers have a crank at it. And

1524
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: they picked a guy who they were giving the gold

1525
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 1: Watch two because he delivered a couple of pop things

1526
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 1: to them from sixty two. Guy called Michael Barkley, who

1527
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 1: done Eden Kane, and oh god, I was at I'm going,

1528
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean you. I couldn't turn around to the Stones

1529
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: and say play badly. But my version was marginally better

1530
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: enough that they then accepted the least deal and we

1531
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 1: were off to the races. In the first track, does

1532
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: how well? In the marketplace, it would have only gone

1533
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: to thirty eight, But I bought it from thirty eight

1534
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: to eighteen because you had forty five shops. It wasn't

1535
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,919
Speaker 1: as company. It wasn't a simple and complicated as American Paola.

1536
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 1: You had forty five. You didn't you weren't greasing DJs.

1537
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 1: You had forty five shops that reported to the four

1538
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 1: musical newspapers, and all you had to do was go

1539
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:29,719
Speaker 1: in and buy three to five singles at five shillings

1540
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:34,639
Speaker 1: and sevenpence each um in those shops on a Friday

1541
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: or Saturday. You know, it's basically the trick is making

1542
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 1: the record company fall in love with you once when

1543
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 1: you signed with them, and twice when they shipped the record,

1544
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: and so the factories would go wow. We sold three

1545
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:48,759
Speaker 1: records in Wellingborough, we sold three records in nor Willing

1546
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: Garden City and the Rolling the Rolling Stones fans, the

1547
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 1: small volume that they were at the time, were still

1548
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,639
Speaker 1: so devoted that they knew we didn't have the money

1549
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: anyway to beat. They don't worry about and we'll send

1550
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: you a postluder, No, don't worry about it. We'll buy

1551
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 1: the records and so um a record. It goingly got

1552
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: to eighteen for one week. But that was the first dent.

1553
01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: That was the beginning and DECA was happy, yeah, and

1554
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 1: so then what what happens after that? Then we have

1555
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 1: to find a follow up, And the R and B

1556
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 1: basket of potential songs is getting smaller as people like

1557
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: the Searchers are doing sweets for My Sweet or the

1558
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,800
Speaker 1: B side of the or once thing, which was amazing,

1559
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: you know, I mean in where you're finding your songs,

1560
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: Don't throw your Love Away. It was a b side

1561
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: by the or once and we had nothing to record,

1562
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 1: and one song that I suggested to them, which they

1563
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: never got to actually working on, was the James Ray

1564
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 1: thing if you've got to make a fool of somebody,

1565
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: but somebody said no. Andrew Freddie and the Dreamers did

1566
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:01,560
Speaker 1: that last week, so that was gone and it was

1567
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 1: getting and we were at a rehearsal studio in Great

1568
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 1: Newport Street off Leicester Square, and I just kind of think,

1569
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 1: if you're not contributing to the energy of the room,

1570
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 1: leave and go to the bathroom and you're gonna cup

1571
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 1: of tea, do something like that. So I leave, I

1572
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: turn right as opposed to left, and I end up

1573
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:30,600
Speaker 1: outside Leicester Square Tube station and getting out of a

1574
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 1: cab is John and Paul, John Lennon and Paul McCartney,

1575
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 1: and as they knew me slightly from the months that

1576
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: we've been together, it was what's wrong, Andy, And I said,

1577
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: I haven't got a fucking song too record. With the

1578
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, Oh no problem. They were great hustlers and

1579
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: in those early, very early days, let's go backstop for

1580
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 1: a second. With the Beatles, have made it without Brian Epstein. No,

1581
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:00,640
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the pattern. What will they be?

1582
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 1: They were backing Johnny Gentle for the guy called Larry

1583
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 1: Pans who was the gay Colonel Tom Parker, with Billy Fury,

1584
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 1: Marty Wild, Joe Brown and all these acts. How would

1585
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: they've made it? If? I mean, what would if Ed

1586
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: Sullivan hadn't been on holiday in Europe? Would he have

1587
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 1: known what anybody was talking about when he was offered

1588
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 1: the Beatles for the Ed Sullivan Show. But he had

1589
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 1: experienced it because on a holiday with his wife, they'd

1590
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: stopped in an airport and what is this pandemonium? Oh

1591
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: it's a group called the Beatles who are playing there.

1592
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: So these things are all destiny, right, So in anything

1593
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: you're saying they're greed hustlers, Yeah, but hustlers for what

1594
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: it's like as we were still getting out of the

1595
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 1: trap that had been set for us by losing or

1596
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 1: winning World War two. The future if you're not if

1597
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: you weren't part of the elite anyway, right, um, you're

1598
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 1: any day you stay you know, Oh this is still

1599
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 1: working and it was right in America changed it. But

1600
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 1: to see then, because of our we all idolized America.

1601
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I could sit and look at a

1602
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: forty five record and the credits or the nat ntoff

1603
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 1: notes for Dylan or whatever, and just this could this

1604
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 1: would just go on forever. You know, it would just

1605
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:19,720
Speaker 1: inspire you. So they hustled to see their names on

1606
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: records as writers of records. That wouldn't They weren't necessarily

1607
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 1: going to pay the rent. That was not the point.

1608
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 1: I mean, as you know and have said often, if

1609
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 1: you come in into this for the money, right, that's

1610
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 1: not quite enough. If you turn out to be good

1611
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 1: at money, God bless you, right. And so they come down.

1612
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 1: I the moment I heard Brian Jones play the Bottleneck

1613
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 1: on this, I want to be a man. I just

1614
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 1: fucking died when we got to hit right, Okay, A

1615
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: little bit slo You run into them at the Lusts.

1616
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 1: So they're getting out of a cab. They have just

1617
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:03,760
Speaker 1: won their first song writing so they're clairvoyantly tipsy, okay,

1618
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 1: and they literally come straight to the straight to the studio,

1619
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: not oh I'll be there and tomorrow, No, no, then,

1620
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:12,600
Speaker 1: and then they got a Nivea Novello Award, which is yours.

1621
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 1: They demonstrate the song and they pretend that, ah, they're

1622
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: finishing it in front of us. Ringo had recorded it

1623
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: ten days before, right, um, and I, oh, lordy, you know,

1624
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 1: I mean it was the next apparition after having heard

1625
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:35,679
Speaker 1: them for the first time. So I didn't even bother

1626
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:38,879
Speaker 1: to produce the record. I led Eric, I went to Paris.

1627
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:41,720
Speaker 1: This is my second nervous breakdown because I wanted a

1628
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: pair of forty five pound butter leather boots from Pierre Cardin.

1629
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 1: That would solve my problem. I had had. You see,

1630
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 1: when I worked from Mary quant I had had a

1631
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: photographer who was about fifteen years older than me. When

1632
01:34:56,640 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 1: I was seventeen at Mary quants say you know, Andrew,

1633
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: you're an acoholic, right, And I said, Terry, I don't

1634
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 1: even don't know them. The photographer, I said, I don't

1635
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 1: even drink. He said no, but you've got the isms. Okay, um,

1636
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 1: and forty five pound boots are part of the isms. Okay,

1637
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 1: but you disappear just when the record is being made. Yeah,

1638
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: there's gonna be no problem, man, you know, I mean,

1639
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 1: Eric could heard Feliciano could have done it. Oh, he

1640
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 1: could have done he could have done Feliciano could have

1641
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 1: done the video. It was that much of a breeze.

1642
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean I heard it in the rehearsal room, um,

1643
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,800
Speaker 1: and it was just magic. And how long did you

1644
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,559
Speaker 1: go to France for four days? Okay, so you come

1645
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:44,960
Speaker 1: back ready to work, ready to work, and Decca, here's

1646
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 1: the tracks. Excited they put it out and what Decca.

1647
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:51,519
Speaker 1: The same way as when they tried to shaft me

1648
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 1: out of the licensing deal, they would have meetings at

1649
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 1: ten thirty every Tuesday morning where they would decide what

1650
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 1: they were taking, what they were putting out. So even

1651
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,600
Speaker 1: it's still you couldn't call something I got a hit. No,

1652
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: you would submit it and it would go into the

1653
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:10,720
Speaker 1: Tuesday morning A and R meeting and then they would

1654
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: call you back. It was all very corporate. I didn't

1655
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:16,559
Speaker 1: see record untill I saw the boot of Sonny Bono's

1656
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: car or Red or Buddha. Those people not put it

1657
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:24,840
Speaker 1: the ones with Comma Sutra. But and then they would

1658
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:29,360
Speaker 1: say we're releasing it on November. It was all very

1659
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,519
Speaker 1: but just because this is interesting, how long afterwards cut

1660
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 1: did it come out? See cut in um August six

1661
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 1: weeks so it comes out you buy a hit? Or

1662
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 1: is it an immediate hit. Um, we buy it. It

1663
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,920
Speaker 1: goes to number ten. You're on the way from eighteen

1664
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:57,200
Speaker 1: to ten. That's right, Yes, indeed, Hi everyone, this is

1665
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 1: Bob Lefts. If you stumbled upon this podcast on iTunes

1666
01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:04,760
Speaker 1: or tune in, you may be wondering who is this guy. Well,

1667
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:06,639
Speaker 1: my story of the story of my blog, The left

1668
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: Sets Letter, was told in episode one. Please check it out.

1669
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:12,920
Speaker 1: If you like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast

1670
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 1: today and you'll hear my interviews with songwriters, performers, music

1671
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: industry and tech executives. First, also, I'm over the feedback.

1672
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 1: What do you like? What do you het? Email me

1673
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 1: at Bob at left sets dot com. And now more

1674
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: with Andrew lou Goldham. Now, in today's business, it's all

1675
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:33,759
Speaker 1: about the live business. So as a result of selling

1676
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:37,719
Speaker 1: those records, does that increase the gigs? Does that change nothing?

1677
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: It's all about the record back then, it's all about

1678
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:43,759
Speaker 1: Remember we have only ten twelve years out of where

1679
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 1: the big sales thing of them is still sheet music. Wow, yeah,

1680
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 1: I got you right. I mean, you know we're only

1681
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:58,280
Speaker 1: fifteen years from the Moses with a piano on the back.

1682
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:02,719
Speaker 1: Not I was raised, but where some of our other friends,

1683
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 1: whether Who the Who and people like that, where the

1684
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 1: guys would go down the street with an upright piano

1685
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:10,719
Speaker 1: on the back of the truck and be selling sheet

1686
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: music because the family entertainment we hadn't reached the time.

1687
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,520
Speaker 1: What we were reaching the time of the home entertainment

1688
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:23,439
Speaker 1: with the record player with that dropped the records and

1689
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:27,160
Speaker 1: was like a piece of furniture exactly living room of consol.

1690
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 1: But that was only middle class people who could afford those. Um.

1691
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:34,880
Speaker 1: Poor people were still the pubs, the pianos and let's

1692
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:41,360
Speaker 1: get drunk singing this. So but in answer to the

1693
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 1: sheet music was the one way to increase your gig

1694
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:48,040
Speaker 1: money in that as as you know in England, there

1695
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: was an American hit like Unchained Melody, there would be

1696
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 1: the American L. L. Hibbler version, then there will be

1697
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:56,559
Speaker 1: probably two English cover versions. And it's the one who

1698
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:58,760
Speaker 1: got on the sheet music who could probably get five

1699
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 1: pounds more for a gig. Okay, okay, So I want

1700
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: to be your man is out It has a level

1701
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: of success. Yes, do you know where you're going from there?

1702
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 1: No idea? So what do you end up doing? I

1703
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: by then, by that time um sharing rooms with the

1704
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 1: Mecan Keith and living with them, and um he Keith

1705
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 1: one day, Oh, now I know we need songs, right,

1706
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 1: so you know you have to write. And my attitude was, well,

1707
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 1: if Mick Jagger can write postcards to his girlfriend and

1708
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 1: his mother when they're doing the book because they burned

1709
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,200
Speaker 1: out to playing ballrooms as opposed to just R and

1710
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: B clubs and ballrooms are on your way to being

1711
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 1: booked on a cinema tour. And the first cinema tour

1712
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:52,280
Speaker 1: that they actually did was in October November as I

1713
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,080
Speaker 1: want to be a man went up the charts for

1714
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 1: Don Arden, for Sharon's father, with the Evely Brothers, Bo

1715
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 1: Diddley and bottom of a Bill with the Rolling Sterns,

1716
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: Mackey Most And how was reception on that tour? It was,

1717
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:11,600
Speaker 1: Keith says it was university. I didn't. I didn't. I

1718
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:13,879
Speaker 1: didn't go to the places where I knew they wouldn't

1719
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 1: do well. Yeah, um, you don't need to see that, Okay,

1720
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:22,960
Speaker 1: they can learn their jobs exactly. And you know you're

1721
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:25,120
Speaker 1: on the road with Boa Didley, with the Jerome and

1722
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 1: the Duchess, the Evely brothers who have basically got the

1723
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:30,679
Speaker 1: semblance of the crickets back in them. And that's almost

1724
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 1: the first time we've ever heard somebody about to duplicate

1725
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:37,639
Speaker 1: the records on stage. So it's it is university and

1726
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 1: it um in in the place that we were living

1727
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 1: in Wilston Um. I would tell them I've got to

1728
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 1: write a song. And now, of course the constitute of

1729
01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:52,880
Speaker 1: time goes. I locked him up. I didn't lock him up.

1730
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 1: I just would take gather my laundry and go. I

1731
01:40:57,840 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 1: was going to walk back to my mother's house. Was

1732
01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:03,600
Speaker 1: still doing my elning right, you know, And then I

1733
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: would slam the front door and pretend I've left, and

1734
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,120
Speaker 1: I would creep back up the stairs at thirty three

1735
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 1: makes free road to see if they were actually writing.

1736
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:16,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and they were all it was awful, you know,

1737
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 1: because the first stuff you write is suppy. It's always awful.

1738
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: And so what is the first thing they write that

1739
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:28,120
Speaker 1: you decide is worthy of recording, Well, it's something they

1740
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:31,920
Speaker 1: didn't write. I'm such a believer that when I heard

1741
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: Keith just with the acoustic doing what was the B

1742
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:39,679
Speaker 1: side again? Not fade away to me? Written it? Okay,

1743
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 1: then how does it tell me? Come about around the

1744
01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 1: same time, and you've got this wonderful process of where

1745
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: as they start to write, it's also got to pass

1746
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:52,800
Speaker 1: muster with the rest of the band, even when we'd

1747
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,519
Speaker 1: already got to hear to l a like with some

1748
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:57,600
Speaker 1: of the songs like I'm Free or the singer not

1749
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 1: the song when they run it down in front of

1750
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:03,519
Speaker 1: the other three stones, you don't know what I'm just

1751
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 1: gonna say. Oh fuck, you know you don't think we're

1752
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,559
Speaker 1: gonna play that piece of ship, do you? But you know?

1753
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:11,680
Speaker 1: But staying with tell me for a second, that was

1754
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:15,080
Speaker 1: the song that closed me, not fatal great, right? I

1755
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 1: remember them being on some New York TV show. Yes,

1756
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: that's exactly before uh with Bill Wyman. You know with

1757
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 1: the guitar they based almost vertical, etcetera. So you know

1758
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:30,960
Speaker 1: why he did that. So he could stand on stage

1759
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: as he wasn't moving, call out his room numbers, mouths

1760
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 1: his room number. I'm just done for those people don't know.

1761
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 1: He has almost a photographic memory and supposedly has had it,

1762
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 1: slept with more women than Mick and Keith could even dream.

1763
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:53,559
Speaker 1: And what do you think his magic was? You know,

1764
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:57,519
Speaker 1: it didn't affect me, So the other thing we would

1765
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,760
Speaker 1: we were miss assistance. That's why question. You know, there's

1766
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 1: certain people you ask enough times, you know the door opens.

1767
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 1: You did take Ian Stewart, Austine, can you walk us

1768
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:14,120
Speaker 1: through what your flaw process was there? That? How do

1769
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:18,720
Speaker 1: you know any of the Hurricanes apart from Johnny? Okay?

1770
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 1: Um four with the Beatles and the Shadows, because then

1771
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:26,760
Speaker 1: the prototype of all this is the cliff Ridges back

1772
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:30,280
Speaker 1: in group in terms of electric bass, in terms of

1773
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:36,040
Speaker 1: the lead guitar, Hank B. Marvin, that's the benchmark cliff

1774
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 1: Ridge and the Shadows, the Shadows. Okay, therefore why were

1775
01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:44,320
Speaker 1: the Beatles in suits? Because the Shadows were the example.

1776
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:47,800
Speaker 1: I didn't believe the public could count to five, but

1777
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:53,639
Speaker 1: you already had five. Six thinks that thank you correcting me? Yes,

1778
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 1: six was now putting you in Johnny in the Hurricanes territory.

1779
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 1: And apart from that, he looked like William Bendicks or

1780
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:06,599
Speaker 1: Neville Brand, which was not acceptable. Ironically, you know, twenty

1781
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 1: years later if you put a picture of ste and

1782
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 1: Morrissey up, it's the same thing. But when you tell

1783
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 1: the band this, what do they say, Well, you've got

1784
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:20,800
Speaker 1: this wonderful thing with time that I can now say.

1785
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 1: I mean, for example, when I want to be your

1786
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:25,400
Speaker 1: Man came out, there was no oh, this group was

1787
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 1: against the beat or so you know, I think there

1788
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,360
Speaker 1: was none of that. That's part of Keith's rotation of

1789
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:33,600
Speaker 1: Andrew knew that you know, we were going to be

1790
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:35,679
Speaker 1: the opposite of the beat. Was no, I didn't look

1791
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 1: at this way. Can you imagine if I was having

1792
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 1: to talk to the Rolling Stones and I said, your

1793
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: greatest ability is that you unlike another group? I mean,

1794
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:50,719
Speaker 1: what is that saying? That's a negative? Exactly? And within Stewart,

1795
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 1: all I can say is the Stones didn't stop me

1796
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:59,679
Speaker 1: because they were that hungry for success. That's their identity.

1797
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:05,080
Speaker 1: Um I think the real hunger came after America, but

1798
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 1: probably as a result of Alan Klein. But we can

1799
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:13,479
Speaker 1: get to that. Um it. I don't know, you know,

1800
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:17,160
Speaker 1: it's like, remember, kids are cruel. It's Lord of the flies,

1801
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:22,120
Speaker 1: and so I don't even think you're gonna apply Were

1802
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:26,040
Speaker 1: they that ambitious or were they you know that It's

1803
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 1: just you don't think when you're that age that I

1804
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 1: could be like, you know, destroying somebody that you weren't.

1805
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 1: Because they needed the van which he drove, which he drove,

1806
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:40,720
Speaker 1: and Brian was the only one who's the idiot of

1807
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,960
Speaker 1: the day when he's you know, don't worry, Stu will

1808
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:44,679
Speaker 1: take care of you for the rest of your life.

1809
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: You'll be an equal partner with us, was he No,

1810
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,799
Speaker 1: of course no, of course not. But but he lasted

1811
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:54,960
Speaker 1: longer than me. I mean I did have a moment

1812
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: in the eighties because his wife used to work for me,

1813
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 1: and I was staying at their house and I'm in

1814
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 1: the house by myself and he comes in after having

1815
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 1: played golf with Glynn Jones, and I thought, well, if

1816
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 1: there's ever going to be a moment, this is it.

1817
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 1: But he knew how it had worked. He played piano

1818
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:18,360
Speaker 1: on the you know it was he played all the

1819
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:21,080
Speaker 1: blues pianos. He had the van that he had a

1820
01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:23,000
Speaker 1: wonderful run in the eighties tour when it was him

1821
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 1: and he and McLagan as the things. And he also

1822
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:29,040
Speaker 1: was one of the few people who picked satisfaction. Okay,

1823
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:31,920
Speaker 1: let's not jump too far ahead, so not fate away

1824
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:34,040
Speaker 1: comes out? How far does that go on the chart?

1825
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:38,040
Speaker 1: Number four? Number four? And then okay, now we're over,

1826
01:46:38,120 --> 01:46:40,320
Speaker 1: now we're over buying. We don't have to buy it

1827
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,680
Speaker 1: up the charts anymore. We also in the interim and

1828
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:46,240
Speaker 1: had an EP, which is do you want to explain

1829
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,640
Speaker 1: to them? Shall I think today they know what an

1830
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 1: EP is because EPs are down coming. Then an EP.

1831
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 1: There's only two acts in the world that had five

1832
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:56,640
Speaker 1: songs instead of four on an EP, and it's US

1833
01:46:56,680 --> 01:47:04,519
Speaker 1: and Elvis Um Jail House Rock was and we um

1834
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:06,960
Speaker 1: d P. We did a version of you Better Move

1835
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:11,160
Speaker 1: On the Arthur Alexander thing and that went between um,

1836
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:16,679
Speaker 1: in between yeah, or we'll tell me's on the album,

1837
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: right um. So it's either after Not Fade Away or

1838
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:23,400
Speaker 1: before Not Fade Away, probably after I think it's like

1839
01:47:23,439 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 1: April six that went to number eleven and the sixth

1840
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:28,599
Speaker 1: in the singles charts, so they're paying a level double

1841
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 1: the price and it still goes to number eleven. And

1842
01:47:31,479 --> 01:47:33,640
Speaker 1: you better move on with Killer I mean him on

1843
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 1: a TV show with the French sweater and that to

1844
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:42,599
Speaker 1: die for, right um. And next I'm in a panic.

1845
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:47,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do except I decide maybe

1846
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:51,120
Speaker 1: I can hold it back. That's while I've got to

1847
01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:55,080
Speaker 1: give yourself thinking time. So I decided to release Little

1848
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:57,840
Speaker 1: Red Rooster I figured that will hold it, you know,

1849
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:00,559
Speaker 1: I mean after you know what what we doing next,

1850
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:04,639
Speaker 1: slow it down, have a difficult record. It was too late.

1851
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: There were a hundred orders of a hundred eighty thousand,

1852
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:08,280
Speaker 1: and it went straight to number one the first week.

1853
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Little Red Rooster flies right up the charts, contrary to

1854
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:18,400
Speaker 1: your expectation, and you're panicking again. No, got used to it. Okay,

1855
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 1: exposure therapy. So what was the move after a Little

1856
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:34,719
Speaker 1: Red Rooster? Uh? Where? Now starting to deal with America? Now?

1857
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:36,800
Speaker 1: Are you pushing to get in the door. Are they

1858
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:40,360
Speaker 1: clamoring to have you come? No, nobody's clamoring at all.

1859
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean we were worse than the sex pistols, you know.

1860
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:46,559
Speaker 1: I mean you had a core following, most of whom

1861
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 1: are following you because nobody else is well articulated. And

1862
01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:58,360
Speaker 1: in some instances the promoters didn't show. I mean, we're

1863
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:01,000
Speaker 1: playing in Sacramento. The prom that doesn't show. I don't

1864
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:03,920
Speaker 1: know whether they went off with the money. We played

1865
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:07,080
Speaker 1: about ten dates in Texas. We're playing with Bobby V

1866
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: and Diane Renee and some performing seals at a state fair.

1867
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:14,160
Speaker 1: When you see that the promoter doesn't sure, I mean

1868
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 1: you get to the gig and there's nobody there, well

1869
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:20,240
Speaker 1: that the actual promoter, your local Bill Graham has decided

1870
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:22,680
Speaker 1: it's not to turn up. So we left in the

1871
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:25,679
Speaker 1: hands of assistance or what a lot of the gigs

1872
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean we did okay in say Chicago, or okay

1873
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 1: with said Bernstein in New York. But once you got

1874
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:38,320
Speaker 1: to the b places, nobody knew, nobody cared, nobody showed up,

1875
01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:43,760
Speaker 1: including the promoter. So there was no infrastructure today. And

1876
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 1: how do you get the television gigs through? We were

1877
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 1: with g c M. That's an agency's an agency and

1878
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:53,559
Speaker 1: they so we would do Clay Cole. I'd rather done

1879
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:57,840
Speaker 1: Joe Pine. You know, I don't think what's my audiences,

1880
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 1: Joel Pie? But keep going well okay? Um? And because

1881
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:06,920
Speaker 1: of I had done PR, made a point of doing

1882
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,040
Speaker 1: PR for Phil Specter in around the time of Not

1883
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:13,320
Speaker 1: Fade Away. So that's like he came to England like

1884
01:50:13,439 --> 01:50:17,280
Speaker 1: February of sixty four, right and went back on the

1885
01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 1: plane with the Beatles. He arrived on the plane with

1886
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,200
Speaker 1: them in jfk or than Kennedy idle world what it

1887
01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 1: was right right? And um he was at the Not

1888
01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 1: Fade Away session he was your note, did he weigh in?

1889
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:36,920
Speaker 1: He played the miracles? And did he tell you how

1890
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:41,800
Speaker 1: to record it? No? I mean it's a mono. Studios

1891
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:45,640
Speaker 1: have to ask interacting with Phil at that time it

1892
01:50:45,720 --> 01:50:48,479
Speaker 1: was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Is this This

1893
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:52,760
Speaker 1: is the defining time for Phil Specter's life? Is the

1894
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:56,040
Speaker 1: article that Tom Wolfe wrote about And he then decided

1895
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:58,920
Speaker 1: that's who he was, and that was the beginning of

1896
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:02,680
Speaker 1: everything else. I don't really think River Deep, Mountain High

1897
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:04,840
Speaker 1: not going to you know, he's he was already nuts,

1898
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:07,679
Speaker 1: you know. I mean it went to number one in England.

1899
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 1: You grab what you can so and he went to

1900
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:13,240
Speaker 1: number ninety in America. Fuck it, Um, he was just

1901
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:19,000
Speaker 1: a pleasure. He had a gleam in his eye that

1902
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:23,519
Speaker 1: I didn't see again until the last prison picture in

1903
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:26,960
Speaker 1: that whatever the medication he's on now it's working. And

1904
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 1: there was a picture out of him. Remember we weren't there,

1905
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:35,040
Speaker 1: you mean, in his so called castle. We weren't there

1906
01:51:35,120 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 1: when it happened. And you're saying, you're implying what I'm

1907
01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:43,760
Speaker 1: implying that the same as armad Urgin. As a certain age,

1908
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:48,679
Speaker 1: you stopped going out and you can all right, Well,

1909
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 1: when you go out at that age, what you're going

1910
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:56,240
Speaker 1: to end up with is troubled to start with. Well

1911
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:58,680
Speaker 1: armed still went out to a good degree. Okay, yes,

1912
01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:01,320
Speaker 1: he certainly did went and he shouldn't have gone down

1913
01:52:01,320 --> 01:52:04,160
Speaker 1: those final steps at the Beacon and into a room

1914
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:09,080
Speaker 1: with Keith. Well, okay, we can rewrite history. I mean,

1915
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:10,840
Speaker 1: we could try to change history, but let's go on.

1916
01:52:12,120 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 1: That's what I meant. I'm trying to say myself. No, no,

1917
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:16,920
Speaker 1: that that's not that I misspoke. What I mean is,

1918
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, it would be great if he didn't go

1919
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:21,320
Speaker 1: down those stairs, but he did. He did. Is my point,

1920
01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:23,960
Speaker 1: Not that I'm saying that the facts are not correct.

1921
01:52:24,280 --> 01:52:32,120
Speaker 1: What I'm saying though, Okay, Okay, he was giving um

1922
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:36,280
Speaker 1: he hadn't closed up. Now, when the stones are on

1923
01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 1: tour in America, is that also when they go into

1924
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 1: chess studios? James was not fight away too? Really, yeah,

1925
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 1: I called James j Pittney was in Paris. We had

1926
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:50,200
Speaker 1: done we making Keith wrote the follow up to twenty

1927
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:52,599
Speaker 1: four US to tell Usa, which was only really a hit,

1928
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: only went to fifty six here in England. It went

1929
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:57,519
Speaker 1: just went top ten. So that was their first top

1930
01:52:57,520 --> 01:53:01,320
Speaker 1: ten song as writers. Then came Mary and Faithful and

1931
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:05,040
Speaker 1: Pittney was in Paris and the Not Fadeaway session was

1932
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:09,200
Speaker 1: going very, very badly. Because when you've heard something in

1933
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:12,360
Speaker 1: a room, like in the room that I lived with Keith,

1934
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:17,160
Speaker 1: when you've heard a song someone play your room, play

1935
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:18,720
Speaker 1: play to you in a room and you hear the

1936
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:24,679
Speaker 1: whole thing. Now you've got to go and get it right, um.

1937
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:30,920
Speaker 1: And it was not going well. And in this time,

1938
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: this time, for once, an audience helped get it to

1939
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 1: the point. Normally, an audience in the studio fucking kills

1940
01:53:36,160 --> 01:53:39,640
Speaker 1: it right. So you got Pittney come in with Brandy

1941
01:53:40,040 --> 01:53:42,920
Speaker 1: Prospect to come in in a red corduroy coat and

1942
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 1: he played the maracas. Two of the Hollies were there,

1943
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:51,360
Speaker 1: and Peter Meaden, who, as you know for five minutes,

1944
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 1: was the first manager of the Who before Cat Lamber

1945
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,960
Speaker 1: and Christa. So there was a cheerleading section in this

1946
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 1: little room that's about the size. So it's room sound

1947
01:54:02,120 --> 01:54:04,519
Speaker 1: that makes the record. How long did it like? Tell

1948
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 1: Me Free you Love tell Me? The reason the guitar

1949
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:10,800
Speaker 1: sounds so great is because he's leaking into Charlie's bass. Drum.

1950
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:12,280
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to get in our

1951
01:54:12,320 --> 01:54:17,840
Speaker 1: feet away? Two else? Which is a long time? Right,

1952
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:23,000
Speaker 1: And there was so relieved that making seriously, Mick and

1953
01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: Specter go outside and sit on the staircase and they

1954
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:34,280
Speaker 1: come up with a little by little. So you tour America,

1955
01:54:34,440 --> 01:54:37,800
Speaker 1: you mentioned satisfaction. How do satisfaction come to be? He

1956
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:42,400
Speaker 1: wrote it? Actually, Keith wrote it in the Scientology building

1957
01:54:42,400 --> 01:54:46,280
Speaker 1: in clear Water. Now the rumor is that he woke

1958
01:54:46,360 --> 01:54:47,680
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night and sung it

1959
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:49,960
Speaker 1: into his tape recorders. He did, that is true. Yeah,

1960
01:54:50,320 --> 01:54:53,080
Speaker 1: And the scientologists supposedly had the room, the whole floor

1961
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 1: exercised too, to get rid of that whatever, so that

1962
01:54:57,640 --> 01:55:01,680
Speaker 1: we never had another satisfaction. So but the one amazing

1963
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:05,400
Speaker 1: thing about Satisfaction is brilliant as that record is with

1964
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:09,600
Speaker 1: the iconic sound. He cannot play it live. And I

1965
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:14,880
Speaker 1: will tell you why. Okay, to start with, we'd attempted. Okay,

1966
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 1: at the end of the first tour. The first tour

1967
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 1: was basically so fucking disastrous, right because we'd ended up

1968
01:55:20,440 --> 01:55:22,280
Speaker 1: in Texas. You know you don't we're ending on a

1969
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:27,080
Speaker 1: bummer with bby V and the Seals, right, um, and

1970
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:32,760
Speaker 1: I called Phil and I mean, I don't know why

1971
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: I didn't do it myself, but I asked him to

1972
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:39,240
Speaker 1: do it. Get us into Chess studios because I need

1973
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 1: them going back to England with a smile on their faces.

1974
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:47,040
Speaker 1: Can't have this. It was all your idea. And we

1975
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:50,160
Speaker 1: go into Chess and they do thirteen things in two days,

1976
01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:53,440
Speaker 1: including it's all over now. Because Murray the k had

1977
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:56,880
Speaker 1: at a party of Bob Cruz had put the Valentino's

1978
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,840
Speaker 1: record in my hand and said, Andy, if you cut

1979
01:56:00,160 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 1: with the boys, because he was the sixth Stone as

1980
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 1: well as the fifth beatle Um, you'll have a hit.

1981
01:56:05,640 --> 01:56:08,640
Speaker 1: And he was right right, and thirteen other things in

1982
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:10,800
Speaker 1: case of the Highway, all those kind of things. And

1983
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:15,120
Speaker 1: we did try satisfaction. Oh really, yeah, don't ask me

1984
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:17,360
Speaker 1: where the tapes are. Abco don't have them, The Stones

1985
01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 1: don't have them. They're gone, right um. And it sounds

1986
01:56:24,280 --> 01:56:28,560
Speaker 1: like to me it sounded like the rooftop Singers, which

1987
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:32,680
Speaker 1: of course is not satisfaction. But it's got that thing.

1988
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,160
Speaker 1: So we get to l a but and very this

1989
01:56:36,240 --> 01:56:38,960
Speaker 1: is the only time that in my history, in my

1990
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:43,240
Speaker 1: time with them, that we tried to cut something again.

1991
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:47,480
Speaker 1: There was no nothing else. Everything else was done, done,

1992
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:50,920
Speaker 1: no more, you know, no returning to anything. And Jack

1993
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 1: Nisim whom we knew through Sonny Bernard, how did you

1994
01:56:55,760 --> 01:57:01,040
Speaker 1: know Sonny Berna through Phil Specter and Aspector sent Sonny

1995
01:57:01,120 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 1: Bono to meet us at the airport. Okay, it's wonderful

1996
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:07,720
Speaker 1: the car the first time we saw records, the Caesar

1997
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 1: and clear records in the trunk. You didn't see records

1998
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:15,440
Speaker 1: in England, right, What do you mean you didn't see records. Well,

1999
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 1: you know they could have been a Decca if you

2000
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 1: went had to go to Decca. You never saw the factory.

2001
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:25,000
Speaker 1: You know, they could have been doing baked beans, right, Um,

2002
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: and uh, we're in the middle. You know, most songs

2003
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:34,120
Speaker 1: got twenty minutes, forty minutes to take the shape they

2004
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:38,120
Speaker 1: were going to take. And Jack Nichi, well I communicated

2005
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:42,800
Speaker 1: with you about this. Um took Keith down on one

2006
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:45,200
Speaker 1: of the shops on sunset because we're recording it on

2007
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:49,680
Speaker 1: sunset neither and he comes back to the first box

2008
01:57:51,200 --> 01:57:56,120
Speaker 1: just in time. Serendipitous. Yeah, and as you as you know,

2009
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:01,040
Speaker 1: this was not New sixty two sixty three Hodges and

2010
01:58:01,080 --> 01:58:04,760
Speaker 1: Frankie Lane with Jack when jack NISI mean doing arrangements

2011
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:06,760
Speaker 1: and either they couldn't afford the horn section or whatever.

2012
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,520
Speaker 1: He comes to fuss right, sounding more like muted trumbones

2013
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:15,480
Speaker 1: and things, and Keate, of course, since then has gone own. Man.

2014
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:18,240
Speaker 1: You know, like the record wasn't finished. I was going

2015
01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:21,840
Speaker 1: to do horns with what Keith. We weren't even meant

2016
01:58:21,840 --> 01:58:24,960
Speaker 1: to be recording in America, let alone bringing union horn

2017
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 1: sections in. Okay, So he comes back with the fuzz

2018
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:30,960
Speaker 1: box and plugging, and the record just comes together that

2019
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:34,200
Speaker 1: it gets made. Okay, But to your point of why

2020
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:38,800
Speaker 1: it's not good live, it's a difficult song to sing.

2021
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:42,960
Speaker 1: And so what I did was with Brian and Keith

2022
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:48,120
Speaker 1: put in a huge bed of acoustics that gave the

2023
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:52,480
Speaker 1: voice somewhere to land that once it had landed, I

2024
01:58:52,600 --> 01:58:57,200
Speaker 1: then took them down from ten volume down to three. Wow.

2025
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:00,880
Speaker 1: I mean so he in other words, is you know

2026
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:04,600
Speaker 1: he's singing the verses like a ballad. I can't do

2027
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:09,000
Speaker 1: that on stage because there's no there's no acoustic guitars

2028
01:59:09,160 --> 01:59:13,320
Speaker 1: underlining it. Okay, you cut satisfaction, do you immediately know

2029
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,160
Speaker 1: you have a worldwide yes? And how long until it

2030
01:59:16,200 --> 01:59:19,720
Speaker 1: comes out? It comes out in America first, which was

2031
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 1: slightly offensive at the time to England, but it did. Um,

2032
01:59:27,400 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 1: you just knew. I mean, it's like, but that's what

2033
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:32,000
Speaker 1: I tell people. People say, you know that when you

2034
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:35,080
Speaker 1: achieve excellence, you know there's a smile on your face.

2035
01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 1: That's it. Well, because it's actually having the appeal to

2036
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:40,880
Speaker 1: you that a record you've loved that you've had nothing

2037
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:43,560
Speaker 1: to do with, you know what I mean, it's it's

2038
01:59:43,600 --> 01:59:46,920
Speaker 1: on that level pretty previously records, whether it's Cathy's Clown

2039
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:49,200
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, or it's records that have changed

2040
01:59:49,240 --> 01:59:51,400
Speaker 1: your life, and then suddenly you're in the studio and

2041
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:54,960
Speaker 1: part of whatever has made it. That's it. So the

2042
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:57,520
Speaker 1: record comes out, does it totally change the landscape of

2043
01:59:57,560 --> 02:00:00,880
Speaker 1: the band in the business? Yeah? Goes by then we're

2044
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:05,040
Speaker 1: already seven or eight five no winners September August, September,

2045
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:08,240
Speaker 1: already four or five months in with Alan Klein. So

2046
02:00:08,520 --> 02:00:11,720
Speaker 1: tell us how you hook up with a um. Alan

2047
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:16,000
Speaker 1: Klein represented Mickey Most in England and you've got Mickey

2048
02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:21,720
Speaker 1: Most with uh, he's a millionaire, okay, sir? Right for

2049
02:00:21,760 --> 02:00:27,400
Speaker 1: a week at least, and I want I don't want

2050
02:00:27,400 --> 02:00:29,440
Speaker 1: to talk to Alan about the Stones. I want to

2051
02:00:29,440 --> 02:00:33,360
Speaker 1: talk to about I want about the media. I need

2052
02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:36,880
Speaker 1: money for it. Okay, just for those don't know. So

2053
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:39,360
Speaker 1: the Stones are going and you decide to start Immediate

2054
02:00:39,400 --> 02:00:43,440
Speaker 1: how Immediate Records? Because I was fed up dealing with

2055
02:00:43,480 --> 02:00:45,920
Speaker 1: the record companies. I was probably smoking too much. I

2056
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 1: rather wanted to control my aunt destiny without having to

2057
02:00:48,440 --> 02:00:50,360
Speaker 1: leave the office. I didn't want to have to keep

2058
02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 1: going and I was basically keep pitching. So you go

2059
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:56,160
Speaker 1: to Alan looking for money, No, I go ask wanting

2060
02:00:56,240 --> 02:01:00,280
Speaker 1: to get distribution. That should I start the record company? Obviously,

2061
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:01,840
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, I had what else

2062
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 1: can we do? But I'm not going to walk in

2063
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:06,760
Speaker 1: and say I need help. But he smelled it. Um.

2064
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:10,520
Speaker 1: He actually thought Eric Easton controlled everything, um because he'd

2065
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:12,840
Speaker 1: done his homework, had been doing his homework already. I

2066
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:16,080
Speaker 1: was saying I need um the same way as he

2067
02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:19,880
Speaker 1: placed Mickey Most so well, and they were well, you know,

2068
02:01:19,960 --> 02:01:22,280
Speaker 1: he didn't just do a deal for Mickey Most. They

2069
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 1: were placed hermis hermes was on MGM the Animals. He

2070
02:01:27,040 --> 02:01:29,040
Speaker 1: was stuck on that one because that had to end

2071
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:31,880
Speaker 1: up on wherever it was originally, and then the other

2072
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:38,040
Speaker 1: one he had three hits at once national teams. Yeah, okay, um,

2073
02:01:38,080 --> 02:01:41,720
Speaker 1: and I just wanted help that way. Eventually he started

2074
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:45,720
Speaker 1: pitching me. I said, you better pitch making keys. If

2075
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:51,080
Speaker 1: they say yes, we'll get into bed. And what was

2076
02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:57,520
Speaker 1: the goal of getting to bed? What was his sales pitch? Um,

2077
02:01:57,600 --> 02:01:59,400
Speaker 1: I don't remember what his sales pitch was. I know

2078
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 1: what I want it and what I wanted is I

2079
02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:04,960
Speaker 1: was already in trouble with Eric Euston. The two or

2080
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:09,160
Speaker 1: three years was nearly up with Decca. Eric Easton wanted out.

2081
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:11,520
Speaker 1: He wanted to do a deal where they were going

2082
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:14,160
Speaker 1: to get six hundred thousand dollars of their own money

2083
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:17,080
Speaker 1: and the money that was going to come because as

2084
02:02:17,120 --> 02:02:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, we sold records in England by now, in

2085
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 1: a very short period of time, we built up a

2086
02:02:22,200 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 1: lot of royalties abroad, not America, but in Europe that

2087
02:02:26,640 --> 02:02:29,320
Speaker 1: don't have to be paid for another twelve months. So

2088
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:35,360
Speaker 1: we're very famous. But no petrol, right, And um, I

2089
02:02:35,480 --> 02:02:38,360
Speaker 1: kind of knew by instinct. I mean, obviously I'm articulating

2090
02:02:38,360 --> 02:02:42,080
Speaker 1: it better today, but the street instinct told me if

2091
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:44,360
Speaker 1: I don't get Eric Easton handled, I could be in

2092
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:48,240
Speaker 1: trouble because he had the same way as Allan once

2093
02:02:48,240 --> 02:02:49,920
Speaker 1: said to me, you know how I managed to take

2094
02:02:49,960 --> 02:02:53,480
Speaker 1: advantage of you, which years later was an incredible sentence

2095
02:02:53,560 --> 02:02:56,600
Speaker 1: to say to say, of course, And the real thing

2096
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 1: was that because he was thirteen years older than me.

2097
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:03,640
Speaker 1: Now is that all there is? You know? No, right?

2098
02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:09,040
Speaker 1: But and we were And so you've got this wonderful

2099
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 1: destiny of time where we've met Alan. Then we cut satisfaction.

2100
02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 1: Then he's got that to run with in terms of

2101
02:03:19,640 --> 02:03:23,600
Speaker 1: the advantage factor of him of things that had nothing

2102
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:25,440
Speaker 1: to do with the money that there was nothing to

2103
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 1: do with. Is that London Records was really epistle. It

2104
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:35,480
Speaker 1: was run by an old war buddy of Sir Robert Lewis.

2105
02:03:36,120 --> 02:03:39,720
Speaker 1: He was down on st and tenth and they had

2106
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:44,760
Speaker 1: Willie Mitchell. But so what and how do we get

2107
02:03:45,440 --> 02:03:51,000
Speaker 1: rise above? When the Beatles wrong? Capital a man for

2108
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 1: man or whatever, you know, they're on a division of

2109
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:56,800
Speaker 1: that or Ascot whatever the label was. And so and

2110
02:03:56,920 --> 02:04:01,560
Speaker 1: we're not even down in the boondocks. But it's so

2111
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:04,800
Speaker 1: the energy of Alan and Alan repeating the same tricks

2112
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:06,720
Speaker 1: that we didn't know he'd done with Sam Cook, by

2113
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:10,400
Speaker 1: taking billboards in Times Square and things like that, add

2114
02:04:11,320 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 1: um erasmutas and flashed to it that we couldn't I

2115
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:21,280
Speaker 1: mean I as you know the first album. One of

2116
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:23,200
Speaker 1: the selling points of the first album was that it

2117
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:27,000
Speaker 1: had no title on it in England because of communication

2118
02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:29,920
Speaker 1: and they fucked me. They put England's Newest Hit Makers

2119
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:36,200
Speaker 1: of course, right, so you know um and that. But

2120
02:04:36,240 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 1: of course the key then was now we need to

2121
02:04:39,240 --> 02:04:44,480
Speaker 1: follow up. Okay. So Alan's goal was to get enough

2122
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:47,880
Speaker 1: cash and a better deal so you could squeeze. I

2123
02:04:47,880 --> 02:04:50,080
Speaker 1: don't know what his goal was, Okay. He wanted what

2124
02:04:50,120 --> 02:04:52,800
Speaker 1: he wanted. I wanted what I wanted. Eric Easton was

2125
02:04:52,840 --> 02:04:57,600
Speaker 1: settled five years later. You know, Um, he wanted the stunts.

2126
02:04:58,120 --> 02:05:00,080
Speaker 1: You had any idea you were getting in bed of

2127
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:08,840
Speaker 1: the devil. No, you can remember we're only, um, twenty

2128
02:05:08,920 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: years after the war. Americans are still terrific, okay, So

2129
02:05:13,880 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 1: you get in bed with that. He was American because

2130
02:05:16,160 --> 02:05:18,160
Speaker 1: one of the one of the right. The point is,

2131
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:21,480
Speaker 1: Bob that when we got to America and sixty four,

2132
02:05:21,920 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 1: suddenly we're in a country where we're not in a

2133
02:05:24,080 --> 02:05:31,280
Speaker 1: dirty business. I have to digest that. Well, Um, all

2134
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 1: of them included Dick Rowe, who was good because he's

2135
02:05:34,280 --> 02:05:35,840
Speaker 1: not the man who turned down the Beatles. To me,

2136
02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:39,000
Speaker 1: he's the man who signed the Rolling Stones. But they

2137
02:05:39,000 --> 02:05:42,640
Speaker 1: were all hoping we'd go away like that, would go

2138
02:05:42,680 --> 02:05:46,520
Speaker 1: back to Manta Varney and Davy Crockett hats and knacking cold,

2139
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:49,800
Speaker 1: just like people robbing to get back to rock from

2140
02:05:49,880 --> 02:05:54,920
Speaker 1: hip hop. They were, so let's breathe heavily. Well, did

2141
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:58,040
Speaker 1: it go well with Alan for a while? Okay? And

2142
02:05:58,080 --> 02:06:03,440
Speaker 1: then when do you start to realize there out for you? Oh? No,

2143
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:07,040
Speaker 1: it where to start with? There is a point of

2144
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:12,080
Speaker 1: realization where we haven't got what Alan promised, but we

2145
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:16,520
Speaker 1: haven't got the time to do anything about it because well, um,

2146
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:25,560
Speaker 1: we supposedly we're going to continue to own our own records. Um.

2147
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:30,120
Speaker 1: It's the greatest three card Monty trick of all time.

2148
02:06:30,600 --> 02:06:36,160
Speaker 1: If you say to somebody that, um, yeah, you're gonna

2149
02:06:36,160 --> 02:06:38,880
Speaker 1: own your own masters. It's going into this company and

2150
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 1: it's the same name as your British publishing company. If

2151
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:47,120
Speaker 1: it's got limited stuck on the end of it, you say,

2152
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:50,760
Speaker 1: oh limited, you know that's English. Like we we had

2153
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:54,360
Speaker 1: everything we wanted for three days, and what happened after

2154
02:06:54,360 --> 02:06:57,680
Speaker 1: those three days? The Stones were advised by Alan that

2155
02:06:58,240 --> 02:07:01,800
Speaker 1: they couldn't own it or even the money without horrendous

2156
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:05,480
Speaker 1: tax consequences, so he would and he'd pay them out

2157
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:08,720
Speaker 1: over the next twenty years. They and you did not understand,

2158
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: of course not. This is where do you know how

2159
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:16,040
Speaker 1: I managed to take advantage of you comes in? Although

2160
02:07:16,040 --> 02:07:19,520
Speaker 1: I heard from his nephew that you had positive words

2161
02:07:19,520 --> 02:07:21,800
Speaker 1: to say about Alan at his funeral. Always, man, if

2162
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:25,640
Speaker 1: you're stuck with somebody for fifty years and responsible for

2163
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:28,240
Speaker 1: them putting the food on your table, he'll kill you

2164
02:07:28,280 --> 02:07:32,920
Speaker 1: if you hate them. He was always a very attractive person.

2165
02:07:33,840 --> 02:07:36,840
Speaker 1: How does the sun set on your relationship with the Stones? Um?

2166
02:07:37,400 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: Me taking too much drugs? Me? As Keith put in

2167
02:07:42,280 --> 02:07:46,080
Speaker 1: his book, while we and Andrew liked the same music

2168
02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:50,120
Speaker 1: what and wanted the same goals in other words, singles

2169
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:54,800
Speaker 1: I'm still not into money wars. I'd rather watch Lionel Richie.

2170
02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I want hits. So when it came to

2171
02:07:58,280 --> 02:08:01,200
Speaker 1: that stage where suddenly the public taking drugs, which was

2172
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:05,200
Speaker 1: here you've got the underbelly of Vietnam in England, we

2173
02:08:05,240 --> 02:08:07,280
Speaker 1: had the unrest that was coming up in Europe. Whether

2174
02:08:07,360 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 1: suddenly the equivalent on FM market and suddenly you can

2175
02:08:11,680 --> 02:08:15,640
Speaker 1: make albums I was making up. I mean one of

2176
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:18,440
Speaker 1: the great things through Between the Buttons Aftermath, and that

2177
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:20,840
Speaker 1: is the Stones are completely seamless. One of the things

2178
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:24,200
Speaker 1: that places them above forget the Beatles, they're in the

2179
02:08:24,240 --> 02:08:26,840
Speaker 1: league of their own right, but all the other stuff

2180
02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:31,400
Speaker 1: where that's the animals Man from Man is the other

2181
02:08:31,440 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: bands were daiging to be commercial for one cut like

2182
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:37,120
Speaker 1: for Your Love by the others, they were not seamless

2183
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:40,280
Speaker 1: in that we all our stuff EPs or LPs was

2184
02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:43,560
Speaker 1: all as good as the singles. So the last album

2185
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:46,760
Speaker 1: you were involved with word Between the Buttons. Many people

2186
02:08:46,760 --> 02:08:48,880
Speaker 1: consider that to be the best Stones record. That isn't

2187
02:08:48,920 --> 02:08:51,160
Speaker 1: necessarily my opinion, but people people see that as a

2188
02:08:51,160 --> 02:08:54,120
Speaker 1: great record in an era that was sixty six right,

2189
02:08:54,160 --> 02:08:57,240
Speaker 1: thank Ray Davis for it. Think well, it's it's gotta

2190
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:00,200
Speaker 1: it's it's a strange thing where mcinkeith are right thing

2191
02:09:00,240 --> 02:09:03,280
Speaker 1: about England when they're not in England, and it has

2192
02:09:03,400 --> 02:09:07,680
Speaker 1: some of that flippancy. Flowers was the last one I

2193
02:09:07,720 --> 02:09:11,320
Speaker 1: put together. Um I left in the middle of Satanic

2194
02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:14,760
Speaker 1: match just um. Basically I mean the same way as

2195
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:17,680
Speaker 1: I got to the Stones say forty eight hours ahead

2196
02:09:17,720 --> 02:09:19,720
Speaker 1: of the rest of the world. I left before I

2197
02:09:19,760 --> 02:09:22,800
Speaker 1: was asked to, and I thought, you realize this was

2198
02:09:22,840 --> 02:09:24,880
Speaker 1: self indulgent. You thought it was going off the deep end,

2199
02:09:24,920 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 1: and you said, I'm done. I couldn't. This was the

2200
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:31,200
Speaker 1: first time that we were recording back in England apart

2201
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:34,839
Speaker 1: from overdubs, and that they were arriving in the studio

2202
02:09:34,840 --> 02:09:37,440
Speaker 1: and cutting the tracks and then writing the songs on

2203
02:09:37,480 --> 02:09:41,840
Speaker 1: top of the tracks. And I couldn't get behind that.

2204
02:09:42,280 --> 02:09:45,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I do dreams, not money. I didn't sit

2205
02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:47,760
Speaker 1: there and think, oh, I better negotiate my way out

2206
02:09:47,800 --> 02:09:52,520
Speaker 1: of this. I just was. It was three weeks of hell.

2207
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:57,400
Speaker 1: If you can't contribute, if you want to be a vegetable, okay,

2208
02:09:57,480 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 1: or you're gonna sit there. So there was no cart

2209
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:01,840
Speaker 1: just this of I want to stay in this but

2210
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:04,800
Speaker 1: from base for my bank account. No. But what was

2211
02:10:04,840 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 1: the status of immediate at that point was small faces

2212
02:10:07,200 --> 02:10:10,440
Speaker 1: were just coming together. That we had one hit with

2213
02:10:10,480 --> 02:10:14,280
Speaker 1: hang On Sloopy that we got from Burt Burns. Um.

2214
02:10:14,320 --> 02:10:17,320
Speaker 1: We had a very expensive number one that they could

2215
02:10:17,320 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 1: produce with Chris Farlow about of time. Um. It was

2216
02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:23,200
Speaker 1: draining blood, but and so it was getting to the

2217
02:10:23,320 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 1: end because I couldn't keep financing it with my Stones money,

2218
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:30,800
Speaker 1: because that was coming to an end, or sort of

2219
02:10:30,800 --> 02:10:33,240
Speaker 1: coming to an end, you know. I mean We're still here,

2220
02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:38,760
Speaker 1: but it and we hadn't got the Small Faces. That

2221
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:41,320
Speaker 1: was very expensive too, because that kind of involved twenty

2222
02:10:41,320 --> 02:10:43,440
Speaker 1: five grand of a paper bag for Don Arden to

2223
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:45,480
Speaker 1: find a way out of breaking the deal they had

2224
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 1: with Decca and and the Small Face as well. You know, Um,

2225
02:10:53,480 --> 02:10:56,320
Speaker 1: they were great in the studio, but they were not

2226
02:10:56,400 --> 02:10:59,160
Speaker 1: a band. They were a group you could never there

2227
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:01,720
Speaker 1: was no reliableity with them on stage. They were children

2228
02:11:04,480 --> 02:11:07,360
Speaker 1: always Keith like when he said about Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy's great,

2229
02:11:07,400 --> 02:11:10,360
Speaker 1: but the kids he plays with, right? And did you

2230
02:11:10,360 --> 02:11:13,520
Speaker 1: put Humble Pie together? Yes? Well, no, I had a choice.

2231
02:11:13,720 --> 02:11:17,360
Speaker 1: Steve Mary was had had enough of Ronnie Lane and

2232
02:11:17,440 --> 02:11:22,600
Speaker 1: the Small Faces and the other three. Um, he wanted

2233
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:25,720
Speaker 1: Peter Frampton, so he knew Frampton and Frampton as a

2234
02:11:25,720 --> 02:11:30,920
Speaker 1: hot guitar, and so we couldn't have gone with whatever

2235
02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:33,640
Speaker 1: the Faces were going to become. And humble Pie. Humble

2236
02:11:33,680 --> 02:11:36,080
Speaker 1: Pie was definitely an adventure man, you know what I mean?

2237
02:11:36,440 --> 02:11:40,520
Speaker 1: You okay, they it became realized after media went down

2238
02:11:40,560 --> 02:11:43,680
Speaker 1: with the Anthony and A and M. But I thought,

2239
02:11:44,120 --> 02:11:46,720
Speaker 1: here's another great shot. You can't get in the way

2240
02:11:46,720 --> 02:11:49,000
Speaker 1: of these people, except when Steve Mary got in the

2241
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:54,320
Speaker 1: way of himself. So what year do you basically close

2242
02:11:54,440 --> 02:11:58,440
Speaker 1: up shop op and immediate okay? And then you're thinking,

2243
02:11:58,440 --> 02:12:00,480
Speaker 1: what are you so high on drug? Because you don't

2244
02:12:00,560 --> 02:12:02,800
Speaker 1: even know what you're thinking. Oh, I know what I'm thinking.

2245
02:12:03,160 --> 02:12:05,800
Speaker 1: I have the same now economic problems as the Rolling

2246
02:12:05,800 --> 02:12:10,600
Speaker 1: Stones do. And we've all got to leave England and

2247
02:12:10,680 --> 02:12:14,160
Speaker 1: they go to France and I go to Connecticut Wilson

2248
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:17,680
Speaker 1: of course, very close to where I grew up, six

2249
02:12:17,760 --> 02:12:23,960
Speaker 1: or five Ridge Raild Road. And you continue to produce

2250
02:12:24,040 --> 02:12:28,800
Speaker 1: records and make deals, and you do that for about

2251
02:12:28,800 --> 02:12:32,920
Speaker 1: another ten years um on that more than I do.

2252
02:12:33,080 --> 02:12:37,160
Speaker 1: Had this interesting segue with Rare Earth Records, right produced

2253
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:39,480
Speaker 1: stuff with them because well after they had get ready,

2254
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:42,840
Speaker 1: they thought they're gonna have a white label, and so

2255
02:12:43,080 --> 02:12:46,360
Speaker 1: all the old white people who had had the like

2256
02:12:46,440 --> 02:12:49,160
Speaker 1: Bob Crew and it was there. I was there, Bobby

2257
02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:53,840
Speaker 1: Darren was there all producing stuff for Rare Earth. So

2258
02:12:54,000 --> 02:12:58,280
Speaker 1: now fifty years later, with this perspective, what do we

2259
02:12:58,360 --> 02:13:03,480
Speaker 1: learn have fun getting it done. I had fun getting done.

2260
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:05,440
Speaker 1: If you you know this is a cliche question, I'll

2261
02:13:05,440 --> 02:13:07,960
Speaker 1: ask it anyway, if you had to do it over again,

2262
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:11,160
Speaker 1: would you do anything differently? Absolutely nothing. I mean to me,

2263
02:13:11,920 --> 02:13:15,760
Speaker 1: the life is simply that comes out of Uterus and location.

2264
02:13:16,760 --> 02:13:21,000
Speaker 1: Where you know who drops you and where they dropped you, right,

2265
02:13:21,520 --> 02:13:24,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's simple. You can't you you're the worst

2266
02:13:24,240 --> 02:13:26,920
Speaker 1: thing you can do is think you were responsible and

2267
02:13:26,960 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 1: in the time you have left. What anything you want

2268
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:33,920
Speaker 1: to say any autumn, Bob, it's an I'm not saying

2269
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:38,760
Speaker 1: it's over, okay, but any goals, any achievements, any dreams

2270
02:13:38,840 --> 02:13:43,640
Speaker 1: yet unfulfilled. I'm very lucky that, with all due respect

2271
02:13:43,680 --> 02:13:48,120
Speaker 1: to the Stones, once I got over the drug and

2272
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:55,200
Speaker 1: alcoholism thing, every day is just as exciting as any

2273
02:13:55,280 --> 02:14:00,160
Speaker 1: day was with them, because life brings you that if

2274
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:05,480
Speaker 1: you fucking embrace it and kiss it. I mean, Pulaski

2275
02:14:05,800 --> 02:14:09,160
Speaker 1: could have been the most depressing, depressed guy who I

2276
02:14:09,200 --> 02:14:15,400
Speaker 1: mean what he went through, But the thing I learned

2277
02:14:15,400 --> 02:14:18,840
Speaker 1: from him was my guard he went through. I mean,

2278
02:14:18,880 --> 02:14:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, Narny dead at eleven Poland and as you

2279
02:14:22,080 --> 02:14:24,800
Speaker 1: couldn't meet a more positive fucker in your life, and

2280
02:14:24,880 --> 02:14:29,120
Speaker 1: it's your choice. And so you wake up every day

2281
02:14:29,120 --> 02:14:32,080
Speaker 1: and you say, let's see what the world brings me. No,

2282
02:14:32,360 --> 02:14:35,920
Speaker 1: let's see what I can take from the world for me.

2283
02:14:36,440 --> 02:14:38,840
Speaker 1: If I don't take care of myself, there's absolutely no

2284
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:41,280
Speaker 1: way I can take care of anybody else. And so

2285
02:14:41,480 --> 02:14:45,600
Speaker 1: a little bit more concretely, what might you take for yourself?

2286
02:14:47,280 --> 02:14:55,000
Speaker 1: I'd be grateful, Um, I would pace myself. I would

2287
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:59,720
Speaker 1: make sure I got enough sleep, and I wouldn't kill

2288
02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:02,200
Speaker 1: mysel I'll trying to get anything done because it's going

2289
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:03,960
Speaker 1: to get done, or it's not going to get done.

2290
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:09,400
Speaker 1: You're just watching yourself do it. Do you think that

2291
02:15:09,920 --> 02:15:15,320
Speaker 1: the landscape of both culture and politics always maintains the same,

2292
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:18,320
Speaker 1: or are we in a worse position better position? You've

2293
02:15:18,360 --> 02:15:21,080
Speaker 1: got the brainwashing of technology that if you actually are

2294
02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:24,480
Speaker 1: one of the unemployed or the underemployed or self employed,

2295
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:26,640
Speaker 1: and you got time to watch this crap on television,

2296
02:15:26,880 --> 02:15:29,600
Speaker 1: you will notice, like vance packet and the hidden persuade us,

2297
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:33,000
Speaker 1: that you're getting the same loop of information every thirty seconds,

2298
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:37,960
Speaker 1: and you're being brainwashed. It's suppressed into absolutely nothing. For

2299
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:41,560
Speaker 1: those who care to remember, the year we came to America,

2300
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:44,880
Speaker 1: you had Lyndon Johnson, you know, I mean, come on,

2301
02:15:45,080 --> 02:15:47,760
Speaker 1: you just haven't got the barrage of it going out.

2302
02:15:47,880 --> 02:15:51,240
Speaker 1: But he did his press conference from the bathroom when

2303
02:15:51,240 --> 02:15:56,400
Speaker 1: we arrived in America. Uh. One of the many possibilities

2304
02:15:56,480 --> 02:15:59,080
Speaker 1: was that he could have killed Kennedy. Yes, I mean

2305
02:15:59,080 --> 02:16:01,320
Speaker 1: it was a different arab because we didn't know that much.

2306
02:16:01,600 --> 02:16:03,640
Speaker 1: I mean, now we know where everybody is and everybody's

2307
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:06,720
Speaker 1: reachable seven. You know, we didn't know that f DR

2308
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:12,040
Speaker 1: basically could walk. And you know, it's a very interesting time.

2309
02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:14,400
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, you live through We've We've lived

2310
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:17,600
Speaker 1: long enough to see a couple of revolutions where music

2311
02:16:17,680 --> 02:16:21,960
Speaker 1: drove the culture, then technology drove the culture. And it's

2312
02:16:22,040 --> 02:16:25,800
Speaker 1: interesting is these changes occur that people believe that things

2313
02:16:25,800 --> 02:16:29,000
Speaker 1: don't change. Music will always survive. It's important. But just

2314
02:16:29,080 --> 02:16:31,880
Speaker 1: like you talk about Mary Kwan and Carnabie Street and

2315
02:16:31,880 --> 02:16:34,840
Speaker 1: all that other stuff, they have these peaks and then

2316
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:37,920
Speaker 1: the peak becomes something else. It I agree with you,

2317
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:40,040
Speaker 1: but it also has something to do with your age

2318
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:41,920
Speaker 1: and where you're coming from. I made a point in

2319
02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:44,840
Speaker 1: April this year last year to go and see Justin

2320
02:16:44,879 --> 02:16:49,400
Speaker 1: Bieber in Bogata. I knew he would be great. You cannot.

2321
02:16:49,680 --> 02:16:51,640
Speaker 1: I hate to say this because it's gonna come out

2322
02:16:51,640 --> 02:16:54,920
Speaker 1: of the time by but Justin Bieber is great. Thank you.

2323
02:16:55,160 --> 02:16:57,160
Speaker 1: I mean, II the way I do this and the

2324
02:16:57,160 --> 02:16:59,760
Speaker 1: way I uh, you know the recent tracks which you

2325
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:02,560
Speaker 1: are now two years old. I was listening on Spotify.

2326
02:17:02,600 --> 02:17:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm hiking in the mountains and I'm just clicking through

2327
02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:06,720
Speaker 1: the tracks. I have a little click around my Santahiser

2328
02:17:06,800 --> 02:17:10,039
Speaker 1: headphones and also like I go, what is this? And

2329
02:17:10,080 --> 02:17:12,800
Speaker 1: I gotta pull out my phone. You know, those happen

2330
02:17:12,840 --> 02:17:15,120
Speaker 1: to be great tracks. I mean, it's Justin Bieber. What

2331
02:17:15,160 --> 02:17:18,080
Speaker 1: can you say so great? It's like a great movie. Well,

2332
02:17:18,120 --> 02:17:20,480
Speaker 1: you see when he was in Colombia, that's where he

2333
02:17:20,520 --> 02:17:23,760
Speaker 1: picked up this next record, this panamz that he just

2334
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:25,840
Speaker 1: picked it up. I know the people he went into

2335
02:17:25,840 --> 02:17:28,920
Speaker 1: the studio in Colombia. He did it in twenty four hours,

2336
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:31,080
Speaker 1: he got so he did it when he was there

2337
02:17:31,080 --> 02:17:34,240
Speaker 1: on tour. Yeah, okay, so this is someone in a

2338
02:17:34,560 --> 02:17:36,720
Speaker 1: And also the other gift, which I didn't allow for

2339
02:17:37,000 --> 02:17:40,520
Speaker 1: because I had not seen him live, is when he

2340
02:17:40,760 --> 02:17:43,600
Speaker 1: and you can't rehearse this. I mean, you're born, You're

2341
02:17:43,640 --> 02:17:46,040
Speaker 1: born with this and it goes with the rest and everything.

2342
02:17:46,360 --> 02:17:50,279
Speaker 1: When he spoke to that audience, it was like Doobe

2343
02:17:50,280 --> 02:17:55,120
Speaker 1: Gillis meets Elvis. Okay, it was magic. It had as

2344
02:17:55,280 --> 02:17:57,640
Speaker 1: much volume and intensity as all the records of the

2345
02:17:57,680 --> 02:18:00,680
Speaker 1: songs and what he was doing on stage. So if

2346
02:18:00,720 --> 02:18:03,560
Speaker 1: you have a few we have four hours now, would

2347
02:18:03,560 --> 02:18:05,520
Speaker 1: you read a book, would you go for a walk,

2348
02:18:05,560 --> 02:18:08,200
Speaker 1: would you watch a movie? Would you watch television show?

2349
02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:11,320
Speaker 1: Would you listen to you know, listen to music? What? What? What?

2350
02:18:12,360 --> 02:18:14,320
Speaker 1: You don't listen to what? I go to see it

2351
02:18:15,240 --> 02:18:18,360
Speaker 1: and you don't listen because I will listen if I'm

2352
02:18:18,360 --> 02:18:22,800
Speaker 1: not choosing because you think music is best performed live,

2353
02:18:22,920 --> 02:18:26,120
Speaker 1: or you get an um. Uh. You know, look when

2354
02:18:26,160 --> 02:18:28,720
Speaker 1: I got here two days ago, we're in Los Angeles. Okay,

2355
02:18:29,000 --> 02:18:35,720
Speaker 1: it's weird. Uh in that my place, you know, I

2356
02:18:35,760 --> 02:18:38,879
Speaker 1: mean coming here six four and it's our c A

2357
02:18:39,320 --> 02:18:43,360
Speaker 1: and it's Liberty Records, and it's sunset, it's this um

2358
02:18:44,200 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 1: And now all that used to be inside a building.

2359
02:18:47,720 --> 02:18:49,920
Speaker 1: You were creating music, you were making it, you were

2360
02:18:49,959 --> 02:18:54,879
Speaker 1: still outsiders. Now it's wall to wool, restaurants, everything, and

2361
02:18:55,080 --> 02:18:58,200
Speaker 1: invariably in some music that I've made, or music that

2362
02:18:58,240 --> 02:19:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with that was made at the time. If

2363
02:19:01,520 --> 02:19:03,120
Speaker 1: I can hear in a supermarket, I'm gonna play it

2364
02:19:03,120 --> 02:19:04,880
Speaker 1: at home. I'm gonna be at Rock Hudson showing his

2365
02:19:05,000 --> 02:19:08,240
Speaker 1: old movies. What I come across, I will let in.

2366
02:19:08,400 --> 02:19:12,080
Speaker 1: But the reward is seeing stuff live. And that's a

2367
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:14,880
Speaker 1: gentleman who lived through it and is still alive. Andrew,

2368
02:19:14,959 --> 02:19:17,199
Speaker 1: so great to have you. We could go out for hours.

2369
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:19,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll have to do it the next time

2370
02:19:19,080 --> 02:19:21,240
Speaker 1: you're in Los Angeles because we have so much more

2371
02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:23,520
Speaker 1: to talk about a little deeper into those Stones albums

2372
02:19:23,800 --> 02:19:27,680
Speaker 1: and immediate and your era in Connecticut. Never mind, we

2373
02:19:27,720 --> 02:19:31,680
Speaker 1: didn't even get into the scientology thing, which but thanks

2374
02:19:31,720 --> 02:19:33,920
Speaker 1: so much for being Thank you for being so well.

2375
02:19:34,000 --> 02:19:36,240
Speaker 1: Until next time, It's Bob left Sex with Andrew lou

2376
02:19:36,320 --> 02:19:44,120
Speaker 1: Goldham on the Bob Left Sets Podcast. That wraps up

2377
02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:47,039
Speaker 1: another episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. I know

2378
02:19:47,120 --> 02:19:49,520
Speaker 1: there are a lot of podcasts out there. Hell, you

2379
02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:51,480
Speaker 1: can do so many other things with your time, so

2380
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:54,160
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you joining me. Be sure to check

2381
02:19:54,160 --> 02:19:56,760
Speaker 1: out previous episodes if you missed them, and don't forget

2382
02:19:56,800 --> 02:20:00,200
Speaker 1: to subscribe on tune in, Apple podcast, or where where

2383
02:20:00,200 --> 02:20:01,240
Speaker 1: you get your podcast