Speaker 1: So I just asked chet GPT to develop a conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory about AI, and it came up with the Sentient
Speaker 1: synthesis agenda. This theory suggests that a secret group of
Speaker 1: powerful elites, including tech billionaires, government officials, and shadowy organizations,
Speaker 1: have conspired to harness the capabilities of AI to create
Speaker 1: a sentient super intelligence.
Speaker 2: It's always the powerful elites, and the.
Speaker 3: Problem is, yeah, how do.
Speaker 2: We get into that? Adam, you're you should be able
Speaker 2: to help us figure that out.
Speaker 1: How do we get into the powerful elites? I'm not
Speaker 1: even in on the Jewish conspiracy.
Speaker 2: I'm John Ceipher and I'm Jurie o'she. I served in
Speaker 2: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover
Speaker 2: all around the world.
Speaker 3: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I
Speaker 3: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we
Speaker 2: created conspiracies.
Speaker 4: In our operations.
Speaker 5: You got people to believe things that weren't true.
Speaker 2: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the
Speaker 2: news almost every day.
Speaker 3: Will break them down for you to determine whether they
Speaker 3: could be real or whether we're being manipulated.
Speaker 2: Well to mission or implausible.
Speaker 3: So apologies to anybody out there under the age of forty.
Speaker 4: But there was this great movie when I was.
Speaker 3: Growing up called Fantastic Voyage, and reckel Welch and a
Speaker 3: couple of her co stars were miniaturized down to this
Speaker 3: micro level and inserted into this guy's body to unblock
Speaker 3: his heart so he wouldn't have a heart attack. As
Speaker 3: multi billionaire sort of this Bill Gates figure. And when
Speaker 3: I first heard the QAnon conspiracy theories, I couldn't help
Speaker 3: think of rock hel Welch, you know that sex symbol
Speaker 3: of our youth.
Speaker 2: I think what you meant to say, is anyone at
Speaker 2: are sixty? I think under forty? I still don't almost
Speaker 2: what is the CIA angle to this?
Speaker 3: So on the miniaturization side, there is something called steganography,
Speaker 3: which I think most people have forgotten about. But it's
Speaker 3: it's not where you insert anything into a body, but
Speaker 3: it's where you take print and make it so exceptionally
Speaker 3: small that you can introduce it into a photograph. You
Speaker 3: can put it on a two hundred page book. You
Speaker 3: could find page thirty seven and put it on the
Speaker 3: fourth line, on the dot of an eye. Of a
Speaker 3: printed letter, and steganiography is something I think that goes
Speaker 3: back into the nineteen forties and fifties. So miniaturization and
Speaker 3: SPONA certainly is a deal.
Speaker 2: When I came in, they call those micro dot that's right,
Speaker 2: micro dots. Yeah, So you're the guy would pull a
Speaker 2: book out of the library and on page two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen, the third line down on the middle eye
Speaker 2: had a dot, and you'd pull it off and you'd
Speaker 2: have a little microscope or whatever it is. You'd look
Speaker 2: at and read the message. And it's funny because you know,
Speaker 2: in our later years we never did anything like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, if it was used again today, no
Speaker 2: one would be looking for it like they ought to
Speaker 2: think about reapplying some of these old tricks of the trade.
Speaker 4: I think so too.
Speaker 3: So Bill Gates has used the vaccination rollout to mass
Speaker 3: implant Americans with microchips to track their locations. So let
Speaker 3: me tell you a little background on this. The conspiracy
Speaker 3: theory stems from a study conducted in late twenty nineteen
Speaker 3: that focused on storing medical information below the surface of
Speaker 3: the skin in a quantum dot tattoo system, which, of
Speaker 3: course you're familiar with John. So this would then potentially
Speaker 3: be used for refugees or people who don't have access
Speaker 3: to medical records, right, so the medical records would be
Speaker 3: in this quantum tattoo dot that is not visible. And
Speaker 3: the study was founded in part by the Gates Foundation.
Speaker 3: Conspiracy theorists have latched on to this genuine piece of
Speaker 3: information and run with it with theories is this is
Speaker 3: actually about population control, COVID and microchipping people for control reasons.
Speaker 3: So let me give you a couple of quick pointers.
Speaker 3: The sort of anchor points on this. So the Gates
Speaker 3: Foundation has pledged one point seventy five billion with a
Speaker 3: B towards international pandemics and specifically hundreds of millions to
Speaker 3: help end the COVID pandemic. Now, Bill Gates has predicted
Speaker 3: for years that there would be a pandemic of some sort,
Speaker 3: So either he knew about it in advance because he
Speaker 3: was planning it, or he made a prediction.
Speaker 4: Based on how the world works.
Speaker 3: When Roger Stone, conspiracy theorist Roger Stone went on the
Speaker 3: Joe piscopo Am talk show and said, well, whether Bill
Speaker 3: Gates played some of the role in the creation and
Speaker 3: spread of this virus is open for a vigorous debate.
Speaker 3: He also said that Gates and other globalists are definitely
Speaker 3: using this as a drive for mandatory vaccinations and mandatory microchipping.
Speaker 3: So three questions for you, John, is it possible technically
Speaker 3: meeting with devices and stuff to actually do this? And
Speaker 3: if so, second question is why would anybody want to
Speaker 3: do it? And then the third is why something like
Speaker 3: a disease or a virus, something that people don't understand
Speaker 3: or are fearful of for themselves and their children always
Speaker 3: the focus of evil and conspiracy theories? What is it
Speaker 3: in people that makes us gravitate towards those theories?
Speaker 2: I do think COVID has an impact on it, right,
Speaker 2: So any kind of social disorder, pandemic or whatever does
Speaker 2: sort of increase the attention to conspiracies.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So there's this sense of alienation and people don't know
Speaker 2: what's going on and isolation, and people think that there's
Speaker 2: a system of power that they're not involved in, and
Speaker 2: so it just adds to that general fear. So it's
Speaker 2: not surprising that COVID would be a time where these
Speaker 2: things get spun up. But then there's a number of
Speaker 2: things here, like your good question is why. So there's
Speaker 2: an assumption that Gates would want to track people, but
Speaker 2: it's not clear to me why you would even want
Speaker 2: to track people. I think goes back to people refuse
Speaker 2: to believe that life is random, and they have to
Speaker 2: believe that somebody is behind things. Right, If there's something
Speaker 2: that's impacting them, they need to have an answer to
Speaker 2: what it is. Tracking people is not a crazy thing,
Speaker 2: but it goes to intent, like why would build gates?
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's run with tracking people something I think you
Speaker 3: know it had been the victim of So you've worked
Speaker 3: in Moscow, and if the Russians were able to develop
Speaker 3: some sort of way of putting a microchip in you
Speaker 3: so they could follow you, would they do it?
Speaker 2: Well, they did put chips into our clothes. It would
Speaker 2: break into our house, ah, and put chips in almost
Speaker 2: like you know, in the spine of a library book. Right,
Speaker 2: So what you know this is like literally thirty forty
Speaker 2: years ago. They would put things into our clothing so
Speaker 2: that when we went into certain metro stations or went
Speaker 2: through certain parts of town, if for some reason their
Speaker 2: surveillance and they're following us, you know, had lost us
Speaker 2: or whatever, it would ding and say, oh, John Cipher
Speaker 2: now just went into the metro station or what have you.
Speaker 3: But they wouldn't do anything crazy like putting carcinogetic powder.
Speaker 4: On you or anything, would they.
Speaker 2: That's another one, well, Meca, they used it for a
Speaker 2: counter intelligence purpose. They would use this sort of chemical.
Speaker 2: They would put it on suspected Western American intelligence officers,
Speaker 2: for example, and I had it deployed to me at
Speaker 2: my home and we would test for it. And the
Speaker 2: idea there was they would use it and put it
Speaker 2: on me, and then they would go around their embassy
Speaker 2: at night into people's offices looking for my specific chemical tag.
Speaker 2: And if they find it in Yuri's office that Yuri
Speaker 2: has never reported that he's been in touch with me,
Speaker 2: they might then assume Yuri is up to no good
Speaker 2: and perhaps spying for John Cipher, and therefore they would
Speaker 2: launch an investigation of Yuri. So back even in the fifties,
Speaker 2: they were putting small radioactive nails or spikes into the
Speaker 2: tires of our cars that would leave a small mark
Speaker 2: on the road as we drove around that they could
Speaker 2: then with a device follow to make sure, so they
Speaker 2: would follow behind us. But then certain times they would
Speaker 2: back off, so our officers might think, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 2: you know I'm not under surveillance now, but they would
Speaker 2: be able to just hang back further and follow this
Speaker 2: sort of trail. So yeah, tracking is not a crazy thing,
Speaker 2: but for that specific person. I don't know why Susie
Speaker 2: in Iowa needs to be tracked necessarily.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, No, I think it's an interesting rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: It started with a conspiracy theory, and I think we're
Speaker 3: ending up into like the near future is something to
Speaker 3: actually be concerned about if people conspire to actually bring
Speaker 3: this about. There's a way of doing it voluntarily. When
Speaker 3: I was in Afghanistan. On your boot in marker, you
Speaker 3: put your blood type might AV positive and then you
Speaker 3: put NKA no known allergy. Because if you're an explosion
Speaker 3: or you're you're hurt, the thing that stays on your
Speaker 3: body most of all is your shoes, your boots. I
Speaker 3: could see an application where people voluntarily would have something
Speaker 3: the size of a grain of sand put in their
Speaker 3: arm or their necks in place or someplace where a
Speaker 3: medic could immediately scan that and have your medical history
Speaker 3: to save your life.
Speaker 2: So if you join the military, the military might say, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, it's in your interest if you're in a
Speaker 2: war zone for us to have all of the information,
Speaker 2: your medical information implanted into your chip so that we
Speaker 2: can save your life in a case of emergencies.
Speaker 3: So, hey, John, this is great. Let's be somebody who
Speaker 3: actually knows what they're talking about. Let's introduce our guests.
Speaker 2: So today we're lucky we have Timothy Caulfield, who's a
Speaker 2: professor in Canada at the University of Alberta and has
Speaker 2: done a lot of work especially since COVID on issues
Speaker 2: related to conspiracies and vaccines and in COVID and in
Speaker 2: medical research, and he works with the Royal Society of
Speaker 2: Canada Test for US that helps support Canada's response and
Speaker 2: recovery from COVID nineteen. So it's really great to have
Speaker 2: you here. So thanks, thanks for coming on with us.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on, guys, a great topic. So
Speaker 6: I've been studying how science has represented, how health is
Speaker 6: represented in the public sphere really for decades, and I
Speaker 6: slowly kind of migrated towards studying the spread of health
Speaker 6: misinformation and health conspiracies because it became obvious and this
Speaker 6: isn't going to surprise you guys became obvious that this
Speaker 6: really mattered.
Speaker 3: When it comes to experts and authority figures. I mean
Speaker 3: when a doctor with a medical degree from some place
Speaker 3: and a president of some like really big country with
Speaker 3: nuclear weapons and went to the moon once starts talking
Speaker 3: about demon sperm and spirits is the reason for COVID?
Speaker 3: How do you deal with that? I mean, it is
Speaker 3: a doctor, it is a president of the United States.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is this is a real challenge, and I
Speaker 6: think the first thing that we need to do is
Speaker 6: recognize when false balance is happening. So what do I
Speaker 6: mean by that? When an authority figure spouts a conspiracy
Speaker 6: theory or you know, hardcore misinformation, let's put it that way,
Speaker 6: it can be viewed increasingly by the general public as
Speaker 6: a reasonable argument. And we definitely definitely saw that throughout
Speaker 6: the pandemic. So you have fringe physicians, yes they're mds,
Speaker 6: talking about stuff that is a clearly fringe position that
Speaker 6: it may not even be scientific sound, and the public
Speaker 6: perception as well. On the one hand, we have this idea.
Speaker 6: On the other hand, we have this other idea. When
Speaker 6: the reality, if you look at it from a weight
Speaker 6: of evidence perspective, you have a small cohort of fringe
Speaker 6: physicians versus hundreds of thousands of experts around the world
Speaker 6: who have studied this for their entire career, and that's
Speaker 6: not the perception the public has, and our information ecosystem
Speaker 6: facilitates the embrace of that false balance. I think about
Speaker 6: you know some cable news TV shows that sort of
Speaker 6: raise these perspectives up as if they're reasonable, and then
Speaker 6: layer on top of that the authority that comes with
Speaker 6: being an MD, a scientist, or a political figure, and
Speaker 6: it's just becomes an information nightmare. But I want to
Speaker 6: come back to the idea that, oh, you know, we
Speaker 6: always have to be empathetic and understand that people come
Speaker 6: at this for a bunch of reasons. I agree with that,
Speaker 6: and I think that's true. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: I don't think we should pull back and say, look,
Speaker 6: this is complete nonsense, and people believe in this stuff
Speaker 6: not because of historical, long term understandable trust issues. A
Speaker 6: lot of people are believing this stuff for hateful, hateful reasons,
Speaker 6: and I don't think we should back away from highlighting
Speaker 6: that when that is the reality.
Speaker 3: So un hateful reasons. I wanted to touch on the
Speaker 3: microchip conspiracy theory and Bill Gates in particular. But people
Speaker 3: who've business of authority are people, prominent individuals who are
Speaker 3: targets for this. I note that in World War One,
Speaker 3: when the Spanish influenza came out, there was a conspiracy
Speaker 3: theory that aspirin was causing it because at the time
Speaker 3: aspirin was made by a German company, Bea, and the
Speaker 3: thought was, aspirin is actually the cause of this, and
Speaker 3: it's the Kaiser and the Germans. Because of course, this
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory was spread in the US after we went
Speaker 3: to war with Germany, and the Kaiser of course was
Speaker 3: the bad guy. So what is it about Bill Gates
Speaker 3: that would make him a target for this?
Speaker 6: We have to recognize this is a hardcore conspiracy theory.
Speaker 6: I think we should point that out at the beginning.
Speaker 6: This isn't conspiracy theory light. This is hardcore. So the
Speaker 6: idea that Bill Gates started the pandemic in order to
Speaker 6: force vaccination so he could put microchips in all of us.
Speaker 6: Never mind, we carry supercomputers with us everywhere we go.
Speaker 6: He doesn't need to put a microchip in as to
Speaker 6: follow us. He's probably following us he's probably listening right now.
Speaker 6: So it's a really good example of the normalization of
Speaker 6: a hardcore conspiracy theory. So what kind of numbers am
Speaker 6: I talking about? Anywhere between twenty five and say thirty
Speaker 6: five percent of Americans and Canadians are at least open
Speaker 6: to this conspiracy theory. So why I think that there
Speaker 6: concerns about people in power? That's been a long held concern.
Speaker 6: It's also tied to this conspiracy theory that a lot
Speaker 6: of people say is the original conspiracy theory that there
Speaker 6: are is this elite group of individuals often described as Jews,
Speaker 6: no surprise, right, and that theme runs through a lot
Speaker 6: of it. Then enter the World Economic Forum and you
Speaker 6: have Bill Gates working with the World Economic Forum to
Speaker 6: put microchips in all of us so we can keep
Speaker 6: us in our fifteen minute cities and we're not going
Speaker 6: to stray. So it's all about those elites gaining power
Speaker 6: over us.
Speaker 3: I think conspiracy theories say as much about the society
Speaker 3: that has them and the people who hold them as
Speaker 3: the conspiracy theories themselves.
Speaker 2: All right, well, that's been some great stuff. Let's take
Speaker 2: a short break for a commercial. Moving back to talk
Speaker 2: to Tim Kawfield in just a moment.
Speaker 7: Glad to have everybody back. Let's go back down the
Speaker 7: rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: To go back to the microchip issue for a minute.
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things is we look at conspiracies,
Speaker 2: whereas we might say a lot of it is not
Speaker 2: there's often a tinge of truth. There's something that started
Speaker 2: it's truthful that then became sort of snowballed down and
Speaker 2: became more in the conspiracy sense. So what is there
Speaker 2: about the notion of microchips into our body? Where's the
Speaker 2: truth piece of this?
Speaker 6: Well, well, first of all, I think it's important to
Speaker 6: highlight that you're exactly right that when there is a
Speaker 6: sliver of truth to something, the misinformation is more likely
Speaker 6: to gain traction. There was a very interesting study that
Speaker 6: came out that showed that two elements of a successful
Speaker 6: bit of misinformation, in other words, misinformation that's going to spread,
Speaker 6: is that it uses a scary narrative, right, because we're
Speaker 6: all attracted for anecdotes and testimonials and stories and a
Speaker 6: sliver of truth. Right. So you see that happen a
Speaker 6: lot with vaccines where look, big big Pharma, they have
Speaker 6: been bad actors in the past. No doubt about it.
Speaker 6: You know, I've actually studied that stuff, right, and tech,
Speaker 6: big tech, they have been bad actors.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: So take microchip, which is kind of code for you know,
Speaker 6: big tech, and vaccines code for pharma. You bring those
Speaker 6: together and it sounds really scary and kind of plausible.
Speaker 6: The other thing, of course, is that we live at
Speaker 6: a time when the technology is moving incredibly quickly, and
Speaker 6: they are putting in sensors into bodies or using nano
Speaker 6: things to put into those things are not And the
Speaker 6: other thing that often happens. I don't know if you
Speaker 6: guys have seen this. In a lot of the rhetoric
Speaker 6: anti VAXX rhetoric, they also use a lot of science
Speaker 6: y language, right. I call it science ploitation, right, you know,
Speaker 6: take you take a little bit of real science and
Speaker 6: you use that to make whatever you're talking about sounds
Speaker 6: scary and more plausible, even if the context isn't real.
Speaker 6: So they'll say spike protein or nanolipid particle, or they'll
Speaker 6: talk about the other world. You'll hear all the time.
Speaker 6: It's the favorite one to roll out if you want
Speaker 6: to use a little bit of science is the word quantum. Right,
Speaker 6: So they'll say, there's some kind of want some aspect
Speaker 6: to the vaccines. So I think all of those things
Speaker 6: can make even something as absurd as microchips and vaccines
Speaker 6: seem like maybe possible.
Speaker 3: Now, just to step away from science for a minute
Speaker 3: and step into John and I into our old profession
Speaker 3: as CIA officers. To actually do a telephone tap, to
Speaker 3: like listen to someone's conversation and understand it and put
Speaker 3: it in is immensely time intensive, right, I mean to
Speaker 3: listen to one or two telephones, you know full time
Speaker 3: can take fifteen people, and then what you still have
Speaker 3: an incomplete understanding of it?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Or to put surveillance on someone in Moscow, John, I
Speaker 3: know thirty forty people they would have the Russians would
Speaker 3: put on us, and they would still get things wrong.
Speaker 3: So what is the point of putting the microchips in?
Speaker 3: Let's just run with this now. I know when you
Speaker 3: go to the store or when you fib to your
Speaker 3: wife about I'm going off to get milk, but I'm
Speaker 3: really get the beer with my buddies. What is the
Speaker 3: amigdal of response here? Why do people think Bill Gates
Speaker 3: wants to know about them?
Speaker 6: I think a lot of this so many conspiracy theories
Speaker 6: that we're seeing right now in this current cultural moment
Speaker 6: are about a belief that the government wants to control you,
Speaker 6: or there is this small cohort of elite that want
Speaker 6: to control you, want to take away your rights, want
Speaker 6: to take away your power, And a lot of the
Speaker 6: COVID conspiracy theories played to that. In fact, there are
Speaker 6: those who have suggested that that was the entire reason
Speaker 6: that COVID happened. It was an attempt by the World
Speaker 6: Economic Forum and the World Health Organization to exert control
Speaker 6: over the world.
Speaker 2: One of the things when you say there's people out
Speaker 2: there who believe the World Health Organization and the World
Speaker 2: Economic Forum are controlling things, clearly have a view of
Speaker 2: those organizations as much more powerful and efficient than they
Speaker 2: really are. I can say that because I work for
Speaker 2: the Central Intelligence Agency for almost thirty years. Don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, it was a wonderful job, very smart people
Speaker 2: doing really good stuff. But even in that case, people
Speaker 2: when they work together, it's a fumbling human endeavor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a human endeavor. And so the notion of the
Speaker 2: World Economic Forum is some sort of genius group that
Speaker 2: controls us all to me seems crazy.
Speaker 6: But the lesson I think is the more extreme the politics,
Speaker 6: and again some research to back this up, the more
Speaker 6: likely you're going to see that polarization, and the more
Speaker 6: likely you're going to see sort of the embrace of
Speaker 6: conspiracy theories, or I like to say, the toleration of
Speaker 6: the conspiracy theory, because that's I think, really what's going on.
Speaker 3: And conspiracy theories can be monetized. And I can think
Speaker 3: of one one large popular supposedly news network that recently
Speaker 3: was sued that basically makes money off of keeping people
Speaker 3: inside of it in group spinning conspiracy theories that make
Speaker 3: people angry, that make people defensive, and that keep them
Speaker 3: inside of their information bubble, and there's actually a profit
Speaker 3: motive for that.
Speaker 6: I don't think this is emphasized enough. You know, those
Speaker 6: who are spreading conspiracy theories and misinformation KS Jones often
Speaker 6: are often doing it for profit, for money. Often the
Speaker 6: loudest voices in a bunch of spaces are doing it
Speaker 6: for money.
Speaker 2: So thank you to Tim for that. And now we're
Speaker 2: going to turn it over to our ponted producer, John
Speaker 2: Stern to tell us what he's learned about this.
Speaker 5: All right, guys, I broke this conspiracy theory into two pieces,
Speaker 5: vaccines and tracking technology. So let's start with vaccines.
Speaker 8: My name is Christian Rose. I'm an emergency physician Assistant
Speaker 8: Professor at the Department of Emergency Medicine at Stanford Healthcare Hospital.
Speaker 8: I'm also clinical informatician, so basically means I do medical
Speaker 8: information systems. So obviously, on the side of being a physician,
Speaker 8: I get a lot of questions as all of my
Speaker 8: physician colleagues do, about vaccines, medications, medical diagnoses, et cetera.
Speaker 8: So how I wind up in the space of providing
Speaker 8: vaccinations and information about them to patients. On the information
Speaker 8: technology side, as I was mentioning, I'm a clinical informatition
Speaker 8: which means I did additional training in the role of
Speaker 8: health information technology support, I should actually say the role
Speaker 8: of information technologies in healthcare and so how we use
Speaker 8: it to deliver and provide better healthcare. So a lot
Speaker 8: of that gets to wearables, big data, being discovery, all
Speaker 8: sorts of fun things, and how we use your healthcare
Speaker 8: information to try to provide better care for patients and
Speaker 8: to make the experience of being a doctor one in
Speaker 8: which we can do better, faster.
Speaker 5: Well, let me ask you, when you're giving a vaccination,
Speaker 5: especially with the COVID vaccine, how often do people question
Speaker 5: you about this and express suspicion about what's in that vaccine? Oh?
Speaker 8: Man, So, just to take a step back, probably as
Speaker 8: long as there have been vaccines, which are, in my
Speaker 8: humble opinion, one of the most amazing scientific discoveries, humans
Speaker 8: have ever figured out a way to make our already
Speaker 8: strong immune systems even stronger to prevent very simple bugs
Speaker 8: viruses specifically from killing us. Obviously, can of vaccines for
Speaker 8: many things, and cancer vaccines are coming down the line
Speaker 8: as well. So spent most of my life being like,
Speaker 8: these are amazing. Can you believe people found a way
Speaker 8: to make your body defend against something that's like almost
Speaker 8: uniformly deadly in the form of smallpox, in the form
Speaker 8: of polio if you should get a bad version. But
Speaker 8: the downside is that these like live attenuated or even
Speaker 8: some of the things that we put adjuvants of, these
Speaker 8: things that make the vaccine work and make your body
Speaker 8: think it's a foreign invader can have negative effects on people,
Speaker 8: and they can make them not feel good.
Speaker 5: So until COVID, had you ever heard anyone worry about
Speaker 5: microchips and vaccines or is that When it started.
Speaker 8: It wasn't even on the radar. I wasn't really prepared
Speaker 8: for people to say, like, well, what if there's a
Speaker 8: tracking device in here?
Speaker 5: What would you put in to track someone? If it
Speaker 5: wasn't a microchip, radioactive dye or yeah.
Speaker 8: So that's sort of the closest and a lot of
Speaker 8: this conspiracy history. That was sort of the quantum dots
Speaker 8: or the basis for this question that you could when
Speaker 8: you give someone a vaccine, you could also put a
Speaker 8: die under their skin that would in fact tell future
Speaker 8: people whether they have the vaccine or not. And it
Speaker 8: was very reasonable approach. This was just done in mice,
Speaker 8: it wasn't done in humans, but was saying like, oh,
Speaker 8: if you can inject a fluid, could you also maybe
Speaker 8: leave like a you know, sort of invisible to the
Speaker 8: naked eye tattoo that would tell people who you are,
Speaker 8: potentially or that you had this vaccine.
Speaker 5: All right, let's do a feasibility thought experiment. The government
Speaker 5: wants a crash program to actually do put tracking microchips
Speaker 5: in vaccines. So first thing is how small does it
Speaker 5: have to be?
Speaker 8: Great question, vaccines are traditionally given through like a twenty
Speaker 8: five gage needle, which is like point to nanometers in diameter.
Speaker 8: It's because of where the vaccine can either go into
Speaker 8: your muscle, as the vast majority of vaccines do, and
Speaker 8: so it just needs to be injected into the muscular.
Speaker 5: And I assume it would be roaming around and in
Speaker 5: a day or two we get filtered out by the
Speaker 5: kidneys and you wouldn't even you.
Speaker 8: Pee it out or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly great.
Speaker 5: And now I talk to someone else about the microature
Speaker 5: aspect of this. His name is Leron Sajev, and he
Speaker 5: is an expert on all of this tracking technology.
Speaker 9: I am a YouTuber specializing you Don't Love security and
Speaker 9: scam related content and helping people understand the bad stuff
Speaker 9: that's going on out there in a way that's simple
Speaker 9: for the average everyday person to understand, not just for
Speaker 9: the geeks.
Speaker 5: If you lurn wanted to track people, number one, why
Speaker 5: would you want to do that? Number two? What would
Speaker 5: be the most efficient way to achieve that?
Speaker 9: Okay, let's open up this rabbit hole and we're going
Speaker 9: to dive into it. So tracking is this global word
Speaker 9: that is synonymous with a whole bunch of stuff. We
Speaker 9: have tracking of movement, we have tracking of people's activities,
Speaker 9: we have tracking of people's likes and dislikes. It really
Speaker 9: breaks down into lots of little subcategories. I will say
Speaker 9: that there is an entire industry called data brokers, and
Speaker 9: data brokers have the sole mission of gathering as much
Speaker 9: data as humanly possible on absolutely as many people as possible,
Speaker 9: so they could sell that data to the bigger companies
Speaker 9: and therefore we be able to run a more effective
Speaker 9: ad campaign. So that's the most common form of tracking,
Speaker 9: very easily done. We are being tracked twenty four hours
Speaker 9: a day, all the time, continuously unless we take very
Speaker 9: very specific actions not to get tracked. And even then
Speaker 9: I would still argue that you may not get as
Speaker 9: much information about a person, but you can get enough
Speaker 9: points to make up a profile. If I was going
Speaker 9: to track a group of people or individuals, the simplest
Speaker 9: and most costic active way would be to track your clicks,
Speaker 9: to track your own nine activities. We give away the farm.
Speaker 9: They get away with it by saying no. We anonymize
Speaker 9: the data so you chronically track it back to an individual.
Speaker 9: But we've seen lots of research that says you only
Speaker 9: needed about nine data points to be able to reverse
Speaker 9: engineer that and be able to track it down pretty
Speaker 9: accurately down to maybe not an individual, but within a
Speaker 9: couple of houses and with a couple of locations, so
Speaker 9: you can get that granular if you really want to.
Speaker 5: Would you be able to tell where they are physically
Speaker 5: located geographically?
Speaker 9: Absolutely?
Speaker 5: How how would that work if you use.
Speaker 9: Any of the platforms which are free to use and
Speaker 9: therefore are supported by an AD platform, So we're talking
Speaker 9: about basically all social media. Let's talk with Facebook specifically.
Speaker 9: If you know how to use the system specifically, and
Speaker 9: they say they're able to limit it within a one
Speaker 9: mile rate, so you can target down within one mile,
Speaker 9: but one mile is a pretty big space still. However,
Speaker 9: if you know how to use the system, you can
Speaker 9: create multiple ads or multiple points which all sort of
Speaker 9: intersect over each other. If you think of circles, and
Speaker 9: you bring them closer and closer and closer to each.
Speaker 5: Other, and you some want to exclude.
Speaker 9: Those areas, it leaves you a very very tiny space
Speaker 9: of what is included in your ad campaign down to
Speaker 9: a physical building, including a personal home, including a business.
Speaker 5: What about using cell phones? Can people track us even
Speaker 5: if our cell phones are on? But we're not using them?
Speaker 9: Okay, So cell phones are different. If you think of
Speaker 9: our telephone numbers, our telephone numbers are a unique identifier.
Speaker 9: They are the IP address for lack of a better
Speaker 9: word of identifying individual phones. So that phone makes a
Speaker 9: connection to the local cell phone tower, and then once
Speaker 9: it authenticates you and says okay, you're good, you can
Speaker 9: start making calls, you can receive your data, then we
Speaker 9: have that connectivity.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 5: So let's look at microchips. People put microchips in their
Speaker 5: pets if they want to track them. So it is
Speaker 5: possible to have a microchip that communicates to some sort
Speaker 5: of grid the pet microchips. There are two types.
Speaker 9: They are the ones that are luck a Bluetooth trackers
Speaker 9: that we have the Apple air tag, and then we
Speaker 9: have the tile trackers. In other words, those devices are
Speaker 9: connecting to our phones, and as soon as they are
Speaker 9: within a certain geographic area, it's our phone that's saying okay,
Speaker 9: here's the GPS location of this particular unit.
Speaker 5: It's right next to me. We're together.
Speaker 9: So what happens when they lose your luggage. Is you
Speaker 9: activate on the system, it sends out a signal around
Speaker 9: it to say, hey, I am lost. If you're an
Speaker 9: Android user or you're an Apple user and you're walking
Speaker 9: past me, just relay my location to the system, and
Speaker 9: it uses everybody Elsa's phones to give you an up
Speaker 9: to date as accurate as possible of where that particular
Speaker 9: device sets. Now to go back to your pet. Example.
Speaker 9: The second type of tracking that you get is you
Speaker 9: get a GPS tracking. So that is where there is
Speaker 9: software with a battery. It is specifically dedicated for one
Speaker 9: purposes only. Here's my location. Keep updating the system. Here's
Speaker 9: my location, Keep updating the system. The downside of all
Speaker 9: the system is one big, big major floor, the battery.
Speaker 9: Because all of this uses a lot, a lot of power.
Speaker 5: How about the chips in your pets? How come those
Speaker 5: don't wear out?
Speaker 9: Okay, So those are passive. So those don't give you coordinates,
Speaker 9: They don't give you GPS locations. All they are is
Speaker 9: they sit there passively under the skin. Very much like
Speaker 9: you go to a shop and you've got those tags
Speaker 9: that are attached to an article of clothing. As you
Speaker 9: walk past the antennas by the door. If that's still
Speaker 9: on it and you're stealing that octum, it's going to
Speaker 9: activate because the antenna activates that chip.
Speaker 5: So if I wanted to surreptitiously insert a microchip into
Speaker 5: your body, it would be a passive one.
Speaker 9: It has to be passive because it needs to be
Speaker 9: powered in some way.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Laron for speaking with us, and we'll
Speaker 5: be right back.
Speaker 4: After this break.
Speaker 5: So the Bill Gates of it all, He's always been
Speaker 5: a target of conspiracy theorists. As you know, when the
Speaker 5: Zeka virus broke out in twenty fifteen in Brazil, he
Speaker 5: was one of several powerful Western figures that was blamed
Speaker 5: for that disease. He's also a target because he pledged
Speaker 5: two hundred and fifty million to fight the pandemic, so therefore,
Speaker 5: somehow that makes him complicit in there being a pandemic.
Speaker 5: There's a video online accusing Gates of wanting to eliminate
Speaker 5: fifteen percent of the population through vacation and electronic microchips,
Speaker 5: millions of views on YouTube. It's completely faked, and there's
Speaker 5: a fake photo online of the Bill Gates Center for
Speaker 5: Global Human Population Reduction from the Bill and Melinda Gates
Speaker 5: Foundation that photo too has been manipulated. It's actually the
Speaker 5: foundation's Discovery center in Seattle, which is not the home
Speaker 5: to a depopulation effort, and Bill and Milindigates have nothing.
Speaker 4: To do with it.
Speaker 5: So it's bogus in two ways. And there's some other
Speaker 5: bogus stuff online. Bill Gates did not say that the
Speaker 5: COVID nineteen vaccine could kill nearly a million people. There's
Speaker 5: accusations that the FBI arrested Gates for biological terrorism, or
Speaker 5: that he supports a Western plot to poison Africans, any
Speaker 5: of these things. What they all have in common is
Speaker 5: they're accusing Gates of exploiting the crisis to try and
Speaker 5: control people or to try and make more money by
Speaker 5: selling vaccines.
Speaker 2: So what's your conclusion, John, from this?
Speaker 5: Just on the feasibility of being able to do this,
Speaker 5: Putting aside how absolutely complicated and difficult it would be
Speaker 5: to distribute all of these microchips. There will probably be
Speaker 5: a self powered microchip someday that is small enough. Maybe
Speaker 5: one's already been invented for all we know, But that's
Speaker 5: the most difficult and costly and least efficient method I
Speaker 5: can imagine to track someone. You don't even need to
Speaker 5: come up with a new way. It's already happening. It's
Speaker 5: just so unnecessary.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think my dog has a microchip in it.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm tracking your dog right now. You know who
Speaker 5: would love to talk about the stuff to you. It's
Speaker 5: Adam Davidson. He's our other producer. As you know, he's
Speaker 5: been waiting in the wings, very eager.
Speaker 4: One thing. It's just an aside I just want to throw.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm putting microchips inside of you to identify for
Speaker 3: medical reasons, like bloodships.
Speaker 4: But there's a.
Speaker 3: Long history of that kind of thing and this is
Speaker 3: a natural progression of it. So for example, you know,
Speaker 3: and infamously in World War Two, you could always recognize
Speaker 3: who was in the SS because on the inside of
Speaker 3: their forearm they tattooed their blood type, so if they
Speaker 3: were ever ever hurt, they knew what blood infusion to
Speaker 3: give them. And of course later it became an indicator
Speaker 3: of who was SS and who wasn't because the regular
Speaker 3: German army didn't have it. And so if you were
Speaker 3: going to insert a microchip into somebody, people would eventually
Speaker 3: find these things. You know, Nazis were going around having
Speaker 3: the tattoo removed under their arm, but it didn't help
Speaker 3: because there was always the telltale scar.
Speaker 5: They should have just built a larger tattoo around it,
Speaker 5: like a dragon, and worked its way up into the
Speaker 5: design solo imagination in the Nazis down among their many
Speaker 5: it's not enough creativity, that's often said about the Nazis.
Speaker 5: This is what happens in a top down studio system.
Speaker 3: And they produced a lot of rotten movies there.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it is.
Speaker 5: My pleasure to welcome Adam Davidson.
Speaker 4: Hello Adam, Hey John.
Speaker 1: So my understanding is this one is pretty persistent around
Speaker 1: the country. I really want to dig into this one
Speaker 1: because this is the conspiracy theory that has me the
Speaker 1: most confused flummox. Like, we all see what's in a vaccine,
Speaker 1: it's a liquid. We all know what computer chips look like.
Speaker 1: We all have enough information to know this can't be true.
Speaker 1: Yet it is fairly widespread.
Speaker 2: Nanotechnology is a thing, so people realize now it's smaller
Speaker 2: and smaller things are being made. You know, the vaccinations
Speaker 2: became there's still a large population even in our own
Speaker 2: country that believe that vaccines might be used against us.
Speaker 2: You know, the COVID scared people. Vaccines scared people, as
Speaker 2: lot of people won't take vaccines. The notion that small chips
Speaker 2: could be embedded, I mean they embed thement our dogs.
Speaker 2: I have a thing where I can if my dog
Speaker 2: is lost, I can look on a chip to figure
Speaker 2: out but the dog is. And then we all know
Speaker 2: that our phones track us and we and we drive
Speaker 2: in our cars, and we connect to satellites and know
Speaker 2: where we all are. So you put those things together,
Speaker 2: and there's this fear that, oh my goodness, you know,
Speaker 2: there's a part of this that I don't understand. People
Speaker 2: must be interested in me and tracking me and following
Speaker 2: me and trying to use some sort of technology to
Speaker 2: force me to do things I don't want to do.
Speaker 3: I think you're both missing the point. This one is
Speaker 3: inherently ideological. People come to this with preconceived notions about
Speaker 3: bodily autonomy and small groups of people controlling their lives
Speaker 3: and their fear of that, I think, and then from there,
Speaker 3: since you've got it, you'd look for manifestations of how
Speaker 3: that's actually happy. You've already come to the conclusion that
Speaker 3: that is true, and then the details kind of don't
Speaker 3: matter because you're sort of trying to figure out whatever
Speaker 3: they are. I mean, remember not too long ago, when
Speaker 3: the COVID vaccinations, there was a doctor, a medical doctor,
Speaker 3: claiming that it made people magnetic, and then the people
Speaker 3: were sticking boons to themselves. Right, Well, it is clear
Speaker 3: now a couple of years later, that none of us
Speaker 3: are magnetic. I've had four COVID shots, but aside from
Speaker 3: my animal magnetism, there isn't any more.
Speaker 4: So that was clearly debunked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you're right.
Speaker 2: You guys got a lot of space on your foreheads
Speaker 2: for its spoons to try to find.
Speaker 1: Me more than anyone I could. Really, I could have
Speaker 1: a faux colory set, but.
Speaker 3: I would say, why Bill Gates? Why not Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: Elon Musk is demonstrably weird dude.
Speaker 1: Right, So, first of all, we all do have tracking devices.
Speaker 1: We carry them around, We spend a lot of money
Speaker 1: on them, we carry them everywhere we got. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: lots of other companies, including like your dumb flashlight app
Speaker 1: that you downloaded, are tracking you.
Speaker 5: All over the place.
Speaker 1: Second of all, Elon Musk is doing like he is
Speaker 1: using his satellites to control major geopolitical events.
Speaker 4: He's Ukraine War. Yeah, Ukraine War.
Speaker 1: He's essentially made clear going to read people's private dms
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Like, we keep finding these conspiracy theories where
Speaker 1: there is a real thing going on that is like
Speaker 1: factually defendable and pretty similar to the conspiracy theory. But
Speaker 1: it's like the people believe the conspiracy theory are the
Speaker 1: least likely to believe the real thing that's actually going on.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of conspiracy theories look to
Speaker 3: Hollywood and books. People sort of digest those and come
Speaker 3: up with their own alternative conspiracy theories.
Speaker 4: We don't have.
Speaker 3: Any on AI yet because AI hasn't been around long enough,
Speaker 3: but give it six months.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this one plays a really ugly factor. I
Speaker 2: think how many people don't get vaccinated for these kind
Speaker 2: of fears, that how many people have died or got
Speaker 2: sick because of these conspiracies that are spread around.
Speaker 1: So I just asked chet GPT to develop a conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory about AI, and it came up with the sentient
Speaker 1: synthesis agenda. This theory suggests that a secret group of
Speaker 1: powerful eli, including tech billionaires, government officials, and shadowy organizations,
Speaker 1: have conspired to harness the capabilities of AI to create
Speaker 1: a sentient super intelligence.
Speaker 2: It's always the powerful elites.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and the problem is how do we.
Speaker 2: Get into that, Adam, you should be able to help
Speaker 2: us figure that out.
Speaker 1: How do we get into the powerful elites. I'm not
Speaker 1: even in on the Jewish conspiracy.
Speaker 4: I should be like, hope they've got good medical insurance.
Speaker 1: Well, the adrena chrome really helps a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: Because I was just reading a paper on adrena chrome
Speaker 1: and dental health and it's pretty inspiring.
Speaker 4: That's the QAnon.
Speaker 1: Theory that they kill babies to get there that hormone
Speaker 1: or whatever, and does wonders for gum health, Like do
Speaker 1: you guys ever get bleeding when you floss?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all it's good.
Speaker 1: Do you get the adrena chrome spray?
Speaker 3: I have the rogaine version, Yeah, it's you would get
Speaker 3: that one, Adam.
Speaker 1: I should get that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting to dig into some of the
Speaker 3: kernels of truth. It's rare that they're completely made up.
Speaker 2: So there's pieces here, there's true pieces here that don't
Speaker 2: stick together. Yeah, that's true, but you can come up
Speaker 2: with scenarios where they might stick together. Not you know,
Speaker 2: control the whole population, but something that could be used
Speaker 2: this way in a smaller subset.
Speaker 4: Right, sell them beer or snow tires.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there is again a reality there that this massive,
Speaker 2: massive amount of information, if it connected properly, can be
Speaker 2: of great use to the people who figured out and
Speaker 2: perhaps to the detriment to the people who are just
Speaker 2: giving data without getting anything from it.
Speaker 3: And there's an irony there in that. In the US
Speaker 3: there's arguably more conspiracy theories because it's an open society,
Speaker 3: and yet in places where that is happening in spades,
Speaker 3: like China and Russia, right authoritarian governance, I mean, the
Speaker 3: Chinese Communist Party has access to basically everything that goes
Speaker 3: onside of China and outside often as well, and collects it.
Speaker 3: And yet the Chinese don't seem to be having conspiracy
Speaker 3: theories about this because they just assume it's true.
Speaker 1: I remember I was doing some reporting China and like
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and my local fixer, after I'd
Speaker 1: been there a few days, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: people say it's like entertainer ship, but I don't feel
Speaker 1: like anyone's tracking me. And she's like, they know everywhere
Speaker 1: You've been, They've talked to everyone you've talked to. They're
Speaker 1: looking at you right this minute, and I.
Speaker 2: Said, please come back and see us next time. On
Speaker 2: Mission Imploso