Speaker 1: The season with Peter Schreger as a production of the
Speaker 1: NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. What's Up, everybody, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the week ten episode of the season with Peter Schreger.
Speaker 1: I am Peter Schreger, the host of Good Morning Football
Speaker 1: on the NFL Network, and I am joined by my
Speaker 1: star producer Brooklyn extraordinaire, mister Aaron Wong Kaufman. Aaron, what's
Speaker 1: good on this beautiful Tuesday morning in New York City? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: it's it is beautiful out. We had like a hot
Speaker 1: weekend and now it's this morning. It was like in
Speaker 1: the forties, it was beautiful out and football weather. Dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're getting into it. I think the listeners who
Speaker 1: are fulling, like, all right, what do you mean You're
Speaker 1: in New York. You said you were gonna be in Munich.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in Munich. I'm going to Munich. Slight,
Speaker 1: hold up with me getting to Munich. I will be
Speaker 1: in Munich. That is the expectation. If I'm not in
Speaker 1: Munich and I'm missing Wednesday mornings Good Morning Football Show,
Speaker 1: there's a story to be told. But as of right now,
Speaker 1: I'll be in Munich. And I will be getting there
Speaker 1: still before the Buccaneers and the Seahawks. And I could
Speaker 1: tell you talking to all my colleagues from the show
Speaker 1: who are there right now, Munich is loving the NFL
Speaker 1: and the atmosphere is incredible, and you know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk a bit about these games, the game that they're getting.
Speaker 1: But who would have thought that Seahawks Buccaneers would be
Speaker 1: like the game of the week going in to week ten.
Speaker 1: But that's where we are, and the Buccaneers seem like
Speaker 1: they're on their bounce back, the Seahawks seem to be
Speaker 1: legit and Aaron, I feel like that's the game of
Speaker 1: the weekend. And I'm pretty honored to be going to
Speaker 1: Munich to set the stage and pretty fired up that
Speaker 1: the NFL network is going to be airing it. But
Speaker 1: that wasn't the biggest story for me this week. Should
Speaker 1: we get to the four downs? Yeah, let's go all right,
Speaker 1: what's the first down? First down? So yesterday like football,
Speaker 1: huge but also the kind of the bigger story of
Speaker 1: the day. Frank Wright loses his job as the coach
Speaker 1: of the Colts, and Ersay comes out and names Jeff
Speaker 1: Saturday the head coach. Of the Colts, the interim head coach.
Speaker 1: Can you give me any insight on Saturday on this
Speaker 1: decision on the firing, Like what's happening here. Let's first
Speaker 1: get to some Jim ursay sound and I'll respond off
Speaker 1: of that, Aaron, why don't you que it up here?
Speaker 1: We go. I'm glad he doesn't have any NFL experience.
Speaker 1: I'm glad he hasn't learned the fear that's in this league.
Speaker 1: That's because it's tough for a our coaches. They're afraid,
Speaker 1: they go to analytics and it gets difficult. I mean,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have all that, he doesn't have that fear,
Speaker 1: and there was no other candidate. We were fortunate that
Speaker 1: he was available. We've tried to hire Jeff a couple
Speaker 1: of times. We tried to hire him in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: is the offensive line coach, and we tried to hire
Speaker 1: him again. You know, this year just didn't work out.
Speaker 1: You know, the timing didn't work out. So and I've
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with Jeff over like where
Speaker 1: I have a few of the X players here, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't take long to figure out that he's got
Speaker 1: real leadership in him, you know, real special in that regard,
Speaker 1: and you know, for this aime game stretch and where
Speaker 1: we're at, we thought it was going to be a
Speaker 1: really good fit force, all right. So that was Jim Ursay,
Speaker 1: the owner of the Indianapolis Colts, and that's Chris Ballard.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of dynamics here, and for the listeners,
Speaker 1: let's get right into it. So Ballard is beloved by
Speaker 1: the media, the national media, and I think there's a
Speaker 1: an assumption that Chris Ballard has given this green light
Speaker 1: in this past by everyone in the Athletic did a
Speaker 1: big pole before the season started this season and it
Speaker 1: was like with all the different writers at the Athletic
Speaker 1: and it was why don't we rank the general managers?
Speaker 1: And now I don't work for the Athletic, I couldn't
Speaker 1: tell you who ran the poll whatever, but the results
Speaker 1: came out. And if you don't think general managers around
Speaker 1: the league were taken aback when Chris Ballard, who doesn't
Speaker 1: have a ton of success in Indianapolis in January, doesn't
Speaker 1: have any Super Bowl rings, was voted as the number
Speaker 1: one general manager, I think you'd be kidding yourself. The
Speaker 1: general managers, they attention to this stuff so like when
Speaker 1: Ballard's won and I was going through the list last night,
Speaker 1: I think Howie Rossman, who's won a Super Bowl, was
Speaker 1: like fourteen, and you know other guys who have a
Speaker 1: John Schneider was a little bit lower down. He's won
Speaker 1: Super Bowl with the Seahawks, has rebuilt that team twice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people start talring. It's like, okay, well, what are the council,
Speaker 1: what are they really all about? Well, they gave twenty
Speaker 1: million dollars this offseason to an offensive lineman who's not
Speaker 1: a left tackle, that's Nelson, and their offensive line is
Speaker 1: one of the worst offensive lines in the league right now.
Speaker 1: So he starts scratching your head and you say, okay, well,
Speaker 1: then is it the general manager. Well, okay, let's say
Speaker 1: it's not the general manager. Let's just give him a pass.
Speaker 1: That he's drafted some good players and that you know,
Speaker 1: five quarterbacks in five years, all this stuff. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: the head coach. Well, first they fired Marcus Brady, who
Speaker 1: wasn't calling the plays and was the offensive coordinator. They
Speaker 1: fired him a week ago, and it was like, why
Speaker 1: is he the escapegoat? And then they fired Frank Reich yesterday, who,
Speaker 1: like I said has been given five quarterbacks of five
Speaker 1: years and is a beloved NFL head coach, and they
Speaker 1: go on the ire Jeff Saturday. There have been a
Speaker 1: lot of takes already and Twitter last night was a
Speaker 1: free for all. And you know, also the timing, like
Speaker 1: there's somebody a night football game on. Do you really
Speaker 1: need to do the press conference during Monday night football?
Speaker 1: This is just classic, like Indianapolis Colts, We're gonna do
Speaker 1: what we do or say. He's gonna talk and we're
Speaker 1: all just gonna have to figure out what he's interpreted.
Speaker 1: We're trying to interpret what he's trying to say. I
Speaker 1: find it insulting to all the different coaches in that
Speaker 1: Indianapolis locker room. I find it insulting to all the
Speaker 1: coaches who have, you know, uprooted their lives for twenty years,
Speaker 1: going spot to spot the spot to get that opportunity
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, it was like,
Speaker 1: here's a guy who used to play for the team,
Speaker 1: the fans like him and know him, and I can
Speaker 1: plug him in and I know what I'm getting and
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna, you know, have any issues. It doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like it's the best thing for the Indianapolis coach
Speaker 1: to win the final eight games. It certainly doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like he's got the best resume. You look atin that
Speaker 1: own building there. Gus Bradley has been an NFL head coach,
Speaker 1: John Fox has been an NFL head coach. Bubba and
Speaker 1: Trone is considered one of the best special teams coaches
Speaker 1: in the league, and an up and coming guy who's
Speaker 1: about forty years old and played in the NFL. All
Speaker 1: those guys would have been worthy candidates to just at
Speaker 1: least hold the fort down and been the interim. They
Speaker 1: go with Jeff Saturday and like this note that, like,
Speaker 1: well we tried to hire him as our offensive line
Speaker 1: coach in twenty nineteen. All right, well he said no
Speaker 1: to me. A lot of patting on the back of
Speaker 1: how good this franchise has been. And not only is
Speaker 1: it the ballard getting number one GM and an athletic
Speaker 1: poll that probably one percent of the listeners have heard,
Speaker 1: but like you know that banner that always gets crushed
Speaker 1: online for the Coals that it says they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it was af AFC finalists at twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: They have a banner yesterday or says in the press conference,
Speaker 1: and he's like, since two thousand, we're in the upper
Speaker 1: quartile of the league and wins the upper quartile, like
Speaker 1: the top you know, top four and win since two
Speaker 1: thousand and then he's talking about, yeah, look, Frank Wright
Speaker 1: got fired. It's hard to win. Frank's a great coach,
Speaker 1: he's a winner, and it's hard to win. And Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan missed a lot of shots, Like it was really
Speaker 1: hard to follow all this, And I would just say this,
Speaker 1: you hire Jeff Saturday, and I don't know, maybe Jeff
Speaker 1: gets a couple of wins and he fires the guys up,
Speaker 1: and then you could start a new and maybe have
Speaker 1: a higher draft pick. And everyone says it's fine. And
Speaker 1: I guess the fans are gonna give him a pass
Speaker 1: because Jeff Saturday's a beloved cult Fine. I'm talking about
Speaker 1: the greater profession as a whole, though, Like if you
Speaker 1: can't look to John Fox and Gus Bradley and Bubba Ventron,
Speaker 1: or if you can't look to I would say Chuck
Speaker 1: Pogano was living in town, Chuck Regonno lives Indianapolis, does
Speaker 1: McAfee show every week, Like Chuck was a beloved coach
Speaker 1: there and knows how to be a a head coach. Hire
Speaker 1: Chuck Pogano for the final eight weeks to go and
Speaker 1: hire the guy off the ESPN set. It seems like
Speaker 1: that's a very comfortable thing for the owner to do.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it's the best for the franchise
Speaker 1: to win games, and it's certainly doesn't rally the other
Speaker 1: coaches in that building. Who, yeah, you know some of them,
Speaker 1: maybe Reggie Wayne knows Jeff Saturday, but like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm like what they were recording this on a Tuesday morning.
Speaker 1: They still haven't announced who's calling any of the offensive
Speaker 1: plays Sunday when they play the Raiders. I didn't love
Speaker 1: the decision, and I'm the first guy to say think
Speaker 1: outside the box. If you want to hire a Numbers
Speaker 1: wonk as your GM, great. If you want to hire
Speaker 1: John Lynch former player to broadcaster at your GM great.
Speaker 1: If you want to hire a Harvard guy who you
Speaker 1: know went to Morgan Stanley and did the you know,
Speaker 1: our credit suite and be the Vikings GM great. This
Speaker 1: one is like backwards, like I'm just gonna hire an
Speaker 1: ex player who I know, who I trust and who
Speaker 1: I'm you know, comfortable with and that's gonna be the thing.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even get into the whole Rooney rule
Speaker 1: aspect of it, and he kind of dismissed it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not sure all the rules on interim stuff. But like,
Speaker 1: I don't know Jeff Day center for the team. I
Speaker 1: start wondering, did they did they ask Peyton Manning first
Speaker 1: and a bit that serious, like Sean Payton asked that
Speaker 1: in the Manning cast and they was met with a laugh.
Speaker 1: But like, I'm sure they ran it by Peyton Manning.
Speaker 1: And then did they ask Andrew Luck to coach the team?
Speaker 1: These are not me being goofy and jokeye Aaron, I'd
Speaker 1: be surprised if the Colts suddenly are this, you know,
Speaker 1: cohesive unit and have a chance to it. I didn't
Speaker 1: love the hire. I think or Say is a really
Speaker 1: philanthropic guy. I think his daughters are doing an incredible
Speaker 1: job in the mental health space. None of that matters
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about the actual hiring of a head coach.
Speaker 1: This one I thought was unfair to several people in
Speaker 1: the building. I think it's unfair to the players, and
Speaker 1: I also think it's unfair to several candidates who might
Speaker 1: be more worthy from the outside. So did I love it? No?
Speaker 1: I did not. All Right, second down rumors about Odell's
Speaker 1: return are heating up. The latest team to be to
Speaker 1: have buzz around a partnership with O'Dell is Parker Shallice Cowboys.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I think there's a
Speaker 1: law the juice to it. And when my colleagues Mike
Speaker 1: Garafolo and Tom Pella Sero say it's not just throwing
Speaker 1: something at the wall, I think he's they're saying it
Speaker 1: because they've got some insight. Look, here's what I heard
Speaker 1: after the trade deadline. And you know, half the things
Speaker 1: I say on Good Morning Football are what I know.
Speaker 1: The other half I keep in my back pocket because
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be reported. And one of them
Speaker 1: was that the Cowboys were very aggressive on the Brandon
Speaker 1: Cook's front right before the deadline. I don't know if
Speaker 1: gallops knee is what it should be. I don't know
Speaker 1: if gallops all the way back. And I think if
Speaker 1: they're looking to make a run, they knew that they
Speaker 1: needed either a deep threat or another threat. I think
Speaker 1: O'Dell and the Cowboys makes perfect sense. They're right in
Speaker 1: the thick of it. He doesn't want to go to
Speaker 1: a loser. He wants to go to a winner. And
Speaker 1: I think to go to America's team Odell Beckham and
Speaker 1: Jerry Jones. That's like a perfect symmetry. I will say this, though,
Speaker 1: it took him a while last year when he came
Speaker 1: back from the knee before he got going really till
Speaker 1: the Ravens game, which was kind of the end of December,
Speaker 1: maybe week sixteen, weeks seventeen, and then he was great
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. He helped them in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: and then of course tears his knee up after having
Speaker 1: one of the best first quarters you'll ever in a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, and he was on his way to being
Speaker 1: Super Bowl MVP. I'm watching right now Chris Godwin being
Speaker 1: covered by linebackers on the outside and struggling to get open.
Speaker 1: I'm watching the aforementioned Michael Gallup struggling to get back
Speaker 1: like this thought that hey and ACLS and ACL and
Speaker 1: we're good to go, and these guys are gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: I don't know if O'Dell is gonna come right on
Speaker 1: the field no matter where he plays for, it's gonna
Speaker 1: make an immediate impact. So this to me, whatever team
Speaker 1: is hiring Odell or signing O'Dell hiring like he's interviewing
Speaker 1: for jobs. But whether it be Buffalo, whether it be Dallas,
Speaker 1: whether it be the Packers throwing some hail Mary and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: come with us and save our season. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be Odell the one that you expect him
Speaker 1: to be till at least December. And I know he's
Speaker 1: training right now, but I don't see this being hey,
Speaker 1: hey signed him in November and then he just jumps
Speaker 1: in right away. I think last year it took him
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks to get going. And I look
Speaker 1: at the guys right now who are coming off major
Speaker 1: injuries that everyone is expected to be back to themselves.
Speaker 1: Godwin's not himself, Gallops not himself. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Odell is going to be himself. So Cowboys makes a
Speaker 1: ton of sense. I'd love to see it. I think
Speaker 1: it would be cool to see Odell and the and
Speaker 1: the star in his sulmet and give the Eagles a
Speaker 1: real run for it. But I would be cautious on
Speaker 1: expecting Odell to be an instant action right out of
Speaker 1: the gates. Yeah, all right, third down. We talked about
Speaker 1: it earlier. Munich game Bucks, Seahawks, Can you give me
Speaker 1: a little preview? What are we checking from this? I mean,
Speaker 1: this has got juiced right now. This is a game
Speaker 1: that has juice and the Seahawks team I love, like
Speaker 1: I'm falling in love with the Seahawks team. We've done.
Speaker 1: Gino Smith on the show last week, I said he
Speaker 1: should be in the MVP conversation. What do they do?
Speaker 1: They he throws a pick six last week against Arizona,
Speaker 1: You're like, all right, here's where the other shoe's gonna drop.
Speaker 1: There on the road. They're gonna lose. And then Gino
Speaker 1: finds a way to just get it going, hitting his guys,
Speaker 1: you know, Metcalflockett, and then of course, you know Kenneth
Speaker 1: Walker does the rest. But I've said it, this might
Speaker 1: be the single greatest rookie class that this league has
Speaker 1: ever seen. I'm not being crazy here, and I know
Speaker 1: there's been rookie classes that include I think Derek Brooks
Speaker 1: and weren't Sapper in the same rookie class. I think
Speaker 1: Jonathan Ogden within the same rookie class as Ray Lewis.
Speaker 1: Those are first round picks. I'm talking depth. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about contributors. Historically, the O five Saints is very often
Speaker 1: looked at as that with like Marcus Colston and Reggie
Speaker 1: Bush and Zach Strieff, and they had a few other
Speaker 1: guys in that class that has looked at as one
Speaker 1: of the best rookie classes. And I think the seventy
Speaker 1: something Steelers had multiple Hall of Famers, whether it be
Speaker 1: Ham or Lambert or some combination of that. With lynd Swan.
Speaker 1: That's offline. I'm talking about eight starters guys at play.
Speaker 1: I mean, you look at this thing, it's two starting
Speaker 1: offensive tackles. The stat that was given on Fox was
Speaker 1: that I think it's the first time in the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl era that you've had two rookie offensive tackles start
Speaker 1: the first eight games of the season. That's Abe Lucas
Speaker 1: third round pick, and that's Charles Cross, a first round pick.
Speaker 1: And that's in an era where they say, you know,
Speaker 1: left tackles are impossible to find in the draft, right
Speaker 1: tackles are impossible. Fine, you got to move them from
Speaker 1: the inside to the outside. It's very rare you get
Speaker 1: a rookie starter at either position, then got him Kenneth
Speaker 1: Walkers on his way to the offensive rookie the year.
Speaker 1: It's either him or Damian Pierce, and I don't think
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be Damian Pierce in the nksy place
Speaker 1: for the Houston Texans and the Seattle Seahawks are having
Speaker 1: this season. You've got the two defensive backs and Woolen
Speaker 1: and Kobe Bryant who we Brian had another pick, guys awesome.
Speaker 1: And then they've got this boy a Mafe who's the
Speaker 1: pass rusher and he's tremendous. Right there, You've got six
Speaker 1: starters out of a draft class that, all honesty, they
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to be great. This was a team that
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't you draft a quarterback with the
Speaker 1: ninth overall pick, Why did you take a quarterback in
Speaker 1: the second round, the third round? All this stuff. No,
Speaker 1: they just got guys. They got players. And what I
Speaker 1: love about it, and I mentioned it earlier, we're talking
Speaker 1: about Chris Baller, John Schneider and Pete Carroll. This is
Speaker 1: the second time they're doing this. So ten years ago
Speaker 1: in one draft class, they got Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner,
Speaker 1: Bruce Ervan, Robert Turbin, and they like helped rebuild on
Speaker 1: the fly by just having great draft picks that they
Speaker 1: didn't have to pay a ton of money. That's them
Speaker 1: right now. I guess what, they have two first round
Speaker 1: picks next year. They have two. They have the Broncos
Speaker 1: first round pick next year, and they have two second
Speaker 1: round picks next year. So I'm excited to see this
Speaker 1: team in Munich and I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: buzz around them. And then Tampa, they saved their season
Speaker 1: there in first place, right like they saved their season
Speaker 1: last week with the win. And Brady did the video
Speaker 1: this morning where he's you know, he's got he's got
Speaker 1: the swagger back and the whole thing and that big
Speaker 1: Embracey have with Byron left which that was important to me.
Speaker 1: I thought Byron left Which is gonna get fired last
Speaker 1: week because of how bad it was against the Ravens,
Speaker 1: and you know, three and a half quarters into Sunday's game,
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no way they bring back Leftwich for
Speaker 1: another week. There's just no way. There's no way this
Speaker 1: offense is acceptable. And then Brady saves their ass, brings
Speaker 1: him all the way down field, he's hugging left wish
Speaker 1: and he's like, we did this, we did this. I
Speaker 1: think it's two really fun stories right now. Brady back
Speaker 1: against the wolf in the hundred of time in his career,
Speaker 1: and then this upstart Seahawks team that known had any
Speaker 1: expectations for, who were in first place at the playoffs
Speaker 1: for today, like they'd be a two or three seed
Speaker 1: and hosting a playoff game. So Aaron, I can't wait
Speaker 1: to be there. I can't wait to set the stage
Speaker 1: for it. And I think the Seahawks get there Wednesday
Speaker 1: night and the Buccaneers get their Thursday, and I'm hoping
Speaker 1: I can link up with a couple of the coaches
Speaker 1: and a couple of the general managers. Maybe see Jason
Speaker 1: light and John Schneider. But maybe I'll have a little
Speaker 1: rendezvous in Munich with Tom Brady. It's not the biggest city.
Speaker 1: Nice all right, Fourth down? Who do you want to
Speaker 1: give your shout out to you this week? I want
Speaker 1: to give my shout out to Josh Allen, who was
Speaker 1: a losing quarterback and had suffered an injury that we're
Speaker 1: monitoring day to day. But I want to give a
Speaker 1: shout out to Josh Allen because of the sound bite
Speaker 1: that he had afterwards that says so much about Josh
Speaker 1: Allen is what I wanted my quarterback. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's tough to win in this league. Um, you're playing
Speaker 1: a good team in your quarterback. Please, like, we made
Speaker 1: some bad decisions tonight really cost our team. UM a
Speaker 1: lot to learn from, a lot to grow from. But
Speaker 1: that's not that's not the standard we hold ourselves too,
Speaker 1: that's not the ball that we play. UM, so a
Speaker 1: lot to look at, lots to learn from. Now. Look,
Speaker 1: I know my home's had a better week. I know too,
Speaker 1: I had a better week. I know cousins had a
Speaker 1: better week. I know justin Fields had better stats, all
Speaker 1: the stuff. Josh Allen though, to take the loss despite
Speaker 1: throwing all those past attempts and doing everything he did,
Speaker 1: and to get injured that you see Ellen jur at
Speaker 1: a at an I wasn't aware of. A UCL afterwards
Speaker 1: says it's hard to win games in this league when
Speaker 1: your quarterback plays like bleep Josh Allen. You don't have
Speaker 1: to apologize to anybody, You don't have to ever put
Speaker 1: any game on you. You don't have to do anything
Speaker 1: as far as blame goes, you are the man. And
Speaker 1: the fact that he does and he wears it. I
Speaker 1: love that, like it takes the load off everybody else
Speaker 1: and put a spotlight on him because we know that
Speaker 1: he's not the problem. Dion Dawkins, I believe yesterday came
Speaker 1: out and was like, I would give my left I
Speaker 1: would give I would give a finger for Josh Allen.
Speaker 1: He shouldn't have to say that stuff, and that's the
Speaker 1: way they love him. Josh Allen not having to take
Speaker 1: the blame, taking the blame. That's leadership and that's only
Speaker 1: going to serve the Bills as the season goes on.
Speaker 1: I hope he's healthy. I think he'll be okay. I'm
Speaker 1: praying that we get to see him this week against
Speaker 1: Minnesota because that's a good showdown. But gosh, if I'm
Speaker 1: starting a team right now, it's hard for me to
Speaker 1: say anybody other than Mahomes or Allan and Allen every
Speaker 1: single week wins me over more and more. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: as a Bills fan. I love that you saw the
Speaker 1: positives even in the loss. I mean, obviously we see
Speaker 1: a little bit of me see Josh again. That was
Speaker 1: a little scary. The last few years. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a tough, tough loss. But I want to
Speaker 1: give a shout out just to the AFC Wildcard race
Speaker 1: in general. What do you got? I love that it's
Speaker 1: become so complicated, because you know, we have the Bills
Speaker 1: at six and two, the Jets at six and three,
Speaker 1: and the Dolphins at six and three, and the Pats
Speaker 1: are five and four, like you could have any one
Speaker 1: of those teams could make it. Well, let's go through
Speaker 1: the plaffs, okay, So the clinching teams right now, who
Speaker 1: do we got? Give me the ranks Bills in the
Speaker 1: AFC East at six and two, Titans AFC South at
Speaker 1: five and three, Kansas City for the AFC West at
Speaker 1: six and two, and the Ravens for AFC North at
Speaker 1: six and three. Then we've got the Jets. You have
Speaker 1: three spots, okay, So let's let's hear the next teams. Next.
Speaker 1: We have the Jets six and three, the Dolphins six
Speaker 1: and three, and the Chargers five and three right now,
Speaker 1: right now, and then who's below them? Indosa line, who's out?
Speaker 1: My order might be a little off. Pat's five and four,
Speaker 1: Bengals five and four, like any of those teams could
Speaker 1: make it. I feel like, yam, the Dolphins still have
Speaker 1: not lost a game that two US starts, Like, even
Speaker 1: though they're six and three, they they're somehow more optimistic
Speaker 1: than than you would think given the fact that they're
Speaker 1: third in the division. But yeah, yeah, Patriots, I worry
Speaker 1: about Mac Jones hasn't played well. Do you feel like
Speaker 1: the Patriots have a real chance? I don't know, they
Speaker 1: win this game, and it's like their defense and their
Speaker 1: running game is good, but gosh, Mac Mac has stunk
Speaker 1: it up the last few weeks. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know between the Jets and the Pats, both of them. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, we saw Fields have this resurgence the past
Speaker 1: five weeks and are not even resurgence because he's never
Speaker 1: really break through. So if Fields can break out and
Speaker 1: that defense can do things, could the Jets have this
Speaker 1: kind of push with you know, Canzach Wilson. Oh so
Speaker 1: you're looking at Fields and you're saying, okay, so out
Speaker 1: of nowhere overnight. Yeah, I don't like za Zach Wilson.
Speaker 1: That ain't I mean Garrett Wilson. I mean Garrett Wilson,
Speaker 1: incredible game. He's gonna Yeah, and the deep. We have
Speaker 1: talked about how great that defense is. Um, how about
Speaker 1: our guys, Sala, I mean, yeah, that is a I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone took them be in Buffalo, especially
Speaker 1: after the New England thing. But the New England thing
Speaker 1: is real. They've lost thirteen straight games to the Patriots.
Speaker 1: They played them again. I don't know. The team that's
Speaker 1: sneaky to me is the Bengals because just when you
Speaker 1: want to write them off and Jamar Chase is injured
Speaker 1: and show whose is injured, Joe Mixon goes and has
Speaker 1: five rushing five touchdowns, four rushing touchdowns and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh wait, they might be able to run the ball maybe,
Speaker 1: and then they can and I'm not counting out Borrow.
Speaker 1: You know, like it's a great, great conference. We knew
Speaker 1: this going in, right, didn't we know this going in?
Speaker 1: That this conference was gonna be wide open and that
Speaker 1: there's gonna be you know, eight teams competing for seven spots.
Speaker 1: In this case, it sounds like there's eleven. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 1: NFC is awful. Yeah yeah, I mean like there's some
Speaker 1: great teams that we love talking about in the NFC,
Speaker 1: but also Vials, Vikings, I mean, how Cowboys. I don't
Speaker 1: know how excited we are with the Vikings. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not like taking my shirt off on
Speaker 1: the plane Kirk Cousins level for them yet, but um yeah,
Speaker 1: you know they are still winning. Hawkinson looked great for
Speaker 1: them this week. That was really fun. That's a that's
Speaker 1: a great win. That's a resilient win. They're down, they
Speaker 1: come all the way back. But like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: to me, I look at those, you know, teams that
Speaker 1: we thought were going to be good, the Bucks, the Rams,
Speaker 1: the Packers, and it's like, are we too late in
Speaker 1: the season for them to get going? Packers, I feel
Speaker 1: like that Goose is cooked. Rams, that Goose is cooked.
Speaker 1: Buccaneers maybe have a glimmer of hope. And then there's
Speaker 1: you know, the Giants just sitting there winning games coming
Speaker 1: off there by and the forty nine ers with McCaffrey.
Speaker 1: We're basically naming thirty two teams and just talking about football.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think. That's what I think, and
Speaker 1: I think I mentioned the Seahawks. That's what the league.
Speaker 1: So the league wants, dude, they want us thinking that
Speaker 1: every team could win. And guess what a year after
Speaker 1: the Bengals went to the Super Bowl. Anything's possible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, we're ready for our guests. Yeah, let's get too.
Speaker 1: Can I give a little preview on our guest before
Speaker 1: we get to him. I love reading. I try to
Speaker 1: read a book a week, maybe a book every two weeks.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I do audio books, and I do everything from
Speaker 1: World War two history to giant long oral histories on
Speaker 1: you know, Hollywood. But anytime a Jeff Perlman book shows
Speaker 1: up in my mail and I'm lucky enough for him
Speaker 1: to send me the galleys, usually it's a sports book
Speaker 1: that you know you're getting one of the best writers
Speaker 1: in the business doing a deep dive on the individual
Speaker 1: that he's focused on. In the past, I have absolutely
Speaker 1: cherished some of Jeff's books, including Showtime, which is the
Speaker 1: impetus for the show winning Time. But I've read that
Speaker 1: on a vacation on the beach. My wife I was
Speaker 1: with her family and we were dating at the time,
Speaker 1: and they were like, this guy's a little weird. All
Speaker 1: he's doing is reading a book about the eighties Lakers,
Speaker 1: and he's not really paying attention to us. But it's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite sports books. Of all Time Sweetness,
Speaker 1: A very controversial but awesome book on Walter Payton, but
Speaker 1: it shows Walter Payton works in all, not just the
Speaker 1: Walter Payton that has been portrayed over the last several years,
Speaker 1: but a really, really, i'd say, journalistic and daring look
Speaker 1: at Walter Payton's legacy. Boys Will Be Boys, a book
Speaker 1: on the nineties cowboys that again, how that hasn't been
Speaker 1: made into a movie or a doc yet? I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. The Bad Guys one,
Speaker 1: which was on the nineteen eighty six Mets and might
Speaker 1: have been my favorite sports book of all time and
Speaker 1: really helps you encourage me to go for it and
Speaker 1: chase my dreams as a sports writer. I read that
Speaker 1: at a very important time, right out of college, where
Speaker 1: I was debiding what I wanted to do. And his
Speaker 1: newest one is called The Last Folk Hero, and it's
Speaker 1: a absolute romp. It's a three hundred page book on
Speaker 1: Bo Jackson, a wonderful athlete who has a almost mythical
Speaker 1: feel around him, and for the younger generation who might
Speaker 1: not know much about Bo Jackson, gives you everything you
Speaker 1: could ever want. For the older generation that might have
Speaker 1: forgotten Bo Jackson. It's almost like a Paul Bunyan tale.
Speaker 1: We're gonna bring Jeff in. He's really really talented, and
Speaker 1: he's also really really curious about so many different things,
Speaker 1: not only in sports but outside of sports. I think
Speaker 1: he's going to be a great guest. Jeff Brewman r
Speaker 1: after this with no further ado. My guy. Jeff Burlman
Speaker 1: on the season with Peter Schrager. Jeff, what's up in
Speaker 1: I'm in a car. You looked at me dubiously when
Speaker 1: I told you I was in a car. But I'm
Speaker 1: in a car for a good reason. Okay, do you
Speaker 1: want to explain what the good reason is? Because I'll
Speaker 1: tell you. When you book a guest on a show,
Speaker 1: you'd like to think they're not going to be sitting
Speaker 1: in an automobile fighting traffic. I'm not happy about this,
Speaker 1: but it's pouring pouring rain in southern California. What's never happened? Okay,
Speaker 1: my wife needs to go to the airport and there's
Speaker 1: a You could not get an uber this morning at all?
Speaker 1: All right, zero? Acceptable? You're so Hollywood now. I think
Speaker 1: of you as this East Coast University of Delaware, New
Speaker 1: York city guy, and now you're Southern California, Hollywood. Before
Speaker 1: we get to the book you wrote, Showtime, which I
Speaker 1: said in the intro is one of my favorite sports
Speaker 1: books of all time. I was on a vacation with
Speaker 1: my wife and her family, and I was just sitting
Speaker 1: on the beach and I ripped through that book in
Speaker 1: about three days. And I think they thought there was
Speaker 1: something off with me, because they're like, he doesn't take
Speaker 1: his head out of a book. I'm like, I love
Speaker 1: this thing. And then sure enough, fast forward ten years
Speaker 1: and HBO's Winning Time is obviously the adaptation of your book.
Speaker 1: What was it like seeing one of your sports tombs,
Speaker 1: like these amazing books that you've actually turned into a
Speaker 1: successful Hollywood show. I would say dream come true, but
Speaker 1: I never had any notions of that happening. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean the highlight for me, the moment of moment.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I mean the card of my wife
Speaker 1: and she wasn't here for it is they had a
Speaker 1: premiere party and I got to take my kids. She
Speaker 1: was out of town, and I'm at this place and
Speaker 1: you know it's in Hollywood, and they do a shot
Speaker 1: no more to where are you at here. I don't
Speaker 1: remember where I've seen, but it was it was. It
Speaker 1: was this cool old theater and I was with my
Speaker 1: daughter who was eighteen at the time, and my son
Speaker 1: who was fifteen, and they had this cigar rolling station
Speaker 1: and my daughter's like, should we um, we should have
Speaker 1: a cigar? And I was like, yeah, we should have
Speaker 1: a cigar with me, my daughter, my son, and Michael Chikliss,
Speaker 1: who plays Rent hour Back Smoky. It was awesome. It
Speaker 1: was did you have any did you have any saying
Speaker 1: like the casting or anything like I always think about,
Speaker 1: you know, you write this book and then they say, okay,
Speaker 1: we're turning it into a show, and then is it
Speaker 1: just hey that that bird is now out of the
Speaker 1: cage and I just kind of give up and I'm
Speaker 1: happy to be a part of it. Or are you
Speaker 1: sitting there in the casting and being like, you know what,
Speaker 1: John c Riley, he really is good for for the
Speaker 1: Jerry Bus roll, like, do you have any saying any
Speaker 1: of that stuff? It was all me. Everything on that
Speaker 1: show was you know, I will say, not like the casting.
Speaker 1: They were really really good about asking me a lot
Speaker 1: about authenticy authentist. Excuse me about does this work, Does
Speaker 1: that work? Did this happen that way? Did that happen
Speaker 1: that way? Season two, I'm actually listed as a producer,
Speaker 1: which is funny, too cool. We don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: But I am a chef, so that's pretty good. And uh,
Speaker 1: but they you know, we got to be in the
Speaker 1: in the pilot episode and I'm actually in two days.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm appearing as a reporter in one of the episodes.
Speaker 1: It's great, It's killer, it's great. Um, I look at
Speaker 1: that book and it was great. But then like, to me,
Speaker 1: the bad guys won, you know, with the eighty six
Speaker 1: minutes boys will be boys with the nineties cowboys like
Speaker 1: have you don't have to tell me yes or no.
Speaker 1: But like, as imagine, your head starts swirling about all
Speaker 1: the different great books you've forre in and like if
Speaker 1: this could work for that story. Is there a future
Speaker 1: where we're doing a letting distra you know, adapt data,
Speaker 1: you know, with how it with Wally Backman and whatnot,
Speaker 1: that'd be great. I mean, I do it is funny
Speaker 1: what happens when something like this happens. And obviously you
Speaker 1: become a little hotter property as far as you're stuff.
Speaker 1: So since Anytime was made, I've written ten books, and
Speaker 1: I'd say seven of them have been options. Now really, yeah,
Speaker 1: as you know, that doesn't mean as much as as
Speaker 1: you think, Like I mean, someone gives you a little money,
Speaker 1: which is great. For the odds of it ever becoming
Speaker 1: a many time or long, there's just so many verbals
Speaker 1: and barriers. But it's been great. It's been great. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: your latest book. I know you've been doing the media
Speaker 1: rounds a little bit, um, but I had to have
Speaker 1: you on our podcast and on this show we've had
Speaker 1: we do NFL Coaches, we do NFL gms. We uh
Speaker 1: we try to, you know, really tell the story of
Speaker 1: this season. But I thought week ten was perfect. Like
Speaker 1: everyone should read this book. It's called The Last Folk Hero.
Speaker 1: It's on Bo Jackson. I think what's interesting about it
Speaker 1: is you interviewed over seven hundred people and everyone's got
Speaker 1: their own Bo Jackson tall tale, almost like it's Paul
Speaker 1: Bunyan or it's like a fable of some sort, or
Speaker 1: like you interact with Bo Jackson. Here's it And there
Speaker 1: is no YouTube necessarily, and there is no Snapchat or
Speaker 1: Instagram to capture it. But like everybody who's who's who's
Speaker 1: crossed his path, whether it beat Tom Flores timing him
Speaker 1: on grass doing a forty and he runs a four
Speaker 1: one seven, or it's a guy who sees him, you know,
Speaker 1: hit a hit a baseball that that bursts the lights
Speaker 1: at the University of Georgia during their first night game.
Speaker 1: Like there's these crazy tall tales. What was your favorite
Speaker 1: bow anecdote that you're like, that has to be in
Speaker 1: the book. He was in a high school, a mcindury High.
Speaker 1: They're playing Fairfield High. He hit a ball. Everyone told
Speaker 1: me this. He hit a ball so high that by
Speaker 1: the time it came down in left field, he was
Speaker 1: rounding third piece. And I thought, there's no way that's true.
Speaker 1: There's no way that's true. And I started everyone people
Speaker 1: who are at the game, and they'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's true. No, I'm telling you. And
Speaker 1: someone said, you need to talk to Eddie Scott. But
Speaker 1: who's Eddie Scott. Eddie was playing left field back game.
Speaker 1: You need to talk to Eddie. So I tracked down
Speaker 1: Eddie Scott and he's like, I am telling you it's true.
Speaker 1: I was playing left field. He went out to play
Speaker 1: in college that he did, and he's like, it's the
Speaker 1: highest Bob I've ever seen. I the ball, it finally
Speaker 1: comes down, I pick it up, I look up bows,
Speaker 1: rounding third and heading for home. And the cool aftermath
Speaker 1: of this story is um Last week I was in Alabama,
Speaker 1: in Homeward, Alabama during a signing and there was at
Speaker 1: a place where everyone had to wear a mask because
Speaker 1: one of the people who worked there was a compromise
Speaker 1: and this guy walks up. He's like Jeff, and I
Speaker 1: go yeah. He pulls down his mask and he goes,
Speaker 1: I'm Eddie Scott and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: the star of my book. And he said he saw
Speaker 1: me on the Today Show talking about him and his
Speaker 1: family was so thrilled, and so yeah, I love that
Speaker 1: story real quickly, tell the I mean the high school
Speaker 1: career of Bo Jackson, all the sports. I think you
Speaker 1: know you did the synopsis of all the track in
Speaker 1: the football, but like, just give us the like, just
Speaker 1: for the listener at home. What was Bo Jackson in
Speaker 1: high school? It's my favorite thing ever. Okay, he wanted
Speaker 1: his senior as a junior and senior who went back
Speaker 1: to back state decathlon championships without having to run the
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred the final race, because he didn't want to.
Speaker 1: He his senior year, he didn't take off his sweats
Speaker 1: for the decathlon, so he did all the events in
Speaker 1: his sweats. I don't think it was to intimidate people
Speaker 1: are wet. He wins the decaf on his senior after
Speaker 1: spraining an ankle midway through the next day, starts for
Speaker 1: the mcindoy baseball team. The only pitching appearance of the
Speaker 1: year for bow Jackson strikes out thirteen in a playoff win.
Speaker 1: He stole nine bases. I talked to the catcher Sam Doss,
Speaker 1: who told me after throwing him out, Bo's next up
Speaker 1: at he homered and winked at him. He said, five
Speaker 1: individual state track and field records. He was drafted by
Speaker 1: the Yankees in the second round of his senior year,
Speaker 1: and the Yankees kept trying to find him because they
Speaker 1: wanted to negotiate with him, and his mom was so
Speaker 1: dead set on him going to college, and also Auburn's
Speaker 1: sort of recruiters put a wall around him. The Yankees
Speaker 1: literally could not get in touch with him. They had
Speaker 1: a scout knock on his door, would not answer the door.
Speaker 1: They called his high school baseball coach Terry Brazil, and said,
Speaker 1: we want to sign fly you and Bow to Yankee
Speaker 1: Stadium for Yankees Red Sox and the coaches like that
Speaker 1: sounds great, those like, yeah, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't care, I'm going over, Like he just he
Speaker 1: was unbelievable and unmoved and couldn't have named one player
Speaker 1: on the Yankees or the Red Sox, and certainly didn't
Speaker 1: know they were rivals. Like he was dis predicted. You
Speaker 1: tell that, You say that story. Then there was his
Speaker 1: first career hit is off a Hall of Fame, You'll
Speaker 1: tell the story. But like Bow wasn't like a sports savant,
Speaker 1: but and I don't say that, like not question it's intellectual,
Speaker 1: so like did not follow these sports, just was an
Speaker 1: absolute freak and played them. Yeah, didn't didn't care, didn't know,
Speaker 1: didn't watch um. First major League got bat September two,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. He's caught up from Memphis. He's very
Speaker 1: raw on the mount. Steve Carton at the time three
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty one game winner, obviously a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: It's this beautiful seven pitch at bat. It's like a
Speaker 1: rock Opera and bow. I mean, he looks like every
Speaker 1: muscle was popping out of that uniform. The uniform is
Speaker 1: so tight. He was so built. And on the seventh
Speaker 1: pitch of the at bat, after almost hitting a home run,
Speaker 1: he grounds out to second. All right, it's a ground
Speaker 1: or second. He hits atimulate ul it fields a bob
Speaker 1: and runs a He runs a three six down the line.
Speaker 1: It's the second fastest recorded time and major League history
Speaker 1: by right, Mickey manno is the only faster. And there's
Speaker 1: I'm just saying. The stop watches were Mickey Manto played
Speaker 1: or click click click click click, and the botas were
Speaker 1: like and the scout behind home played Art Steward from
Speaker 1: the Royals. He looks at his stop watch and he
Speaker 1: turned to the other guys, and someone's like, what did
Speaker 1: you get? And he's like, it's not even worth it.
Speaker 1: It's wrong. Someone else is like, well, what do you get?
Speaker 1: What you get it's wrong? Well, I got a three six.
Speaker 1: He's like, I got it three six, Holy crap, I
Speaker 1: got it three six. Like they didn't believe it. After
Speaker 1: the game, Bo Jackson has asked what it meant to
Speaker 1: him getting his first hit off Steve Carlton, he knows
Speaker 1: who he was. Yeah, no idea and that's I mean,
Speaker 1: I love that. And then he gets drafted by the Buccaneers,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't go what's the reasoning behind that? And
Speaker 1: then the mythology after that. So he's drafted. He's um.
Speaker 1: Before the draft, the Buccaneers fly him to Tampa for
Speaker 1: a physical. And this is during Auburn's baseball season. And
Speaker 1: how bad does the Auburn baseball coach and bow is
Speaker 1: late for a g against you Alabama Birmingham and someone's
Speaker 1: like how it is like to a player, where's boat?
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, um, he flew to Tampa. He flew
Speaker 1: to Tampa. Yeah, the Buccaneers flew in from physical. He
Speaker 1: what he's that violated SEC rules almost ever around the country.
Speaker 1: You could play amateur, one sport, pro another not in
Speaker 1: the SEC, which you and I both know. It's absolutely
Speaker 1: saved because he was getting paid. It's a joke. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So he bo blames the Buccaneers. He says this is
Speaker 1: behind them, and they they end up drafting him number one.
Speaker 1: The head coach was Lemon Bennett, and he said to you,
Speaker 1: Culver House, do not draft him if he's not going
Speaker 1: to play here, and Calbveruse is like, nah, he'll play,
Speaker 1: He'll play. They draft number one voter doesn't want to
Speaker 1: play there, but his aids and shown him to fly
Speaker 1: to Tampa and me with the team. He flies. Steve
Speaker 1: Young maybe my favorite interview of all the time for
Speaker 1: multiple Bucks because he is the best um. He was
Speaker 1: the Bucks quarterback at the time, and U culver House,
Speaker 1: the owner, says, why don't you come come with me?
Speaker 1: And voted dinner, we can wine and dine. Boat When
Speaker 1: they go to dinner and culver House does one of
Speaker 1: these like Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you guys
Speaker 1: for a minute just to talk, and he gets up.
Speaker 1: Bo Jackson says to Steve Young, just so you know,
Speaker 1: there's no evan way I ever signed with this team.
Speaker 1: And the next day Scott Brantley and a bunch of
Speaker 1: teammates to both Fishing Buccaneers players and Brantley said to
Speaker 1: bout listen man, we would love to have you, but
Speaker 1: you don't want to play here. You don't want to
Speaker 1: play here, and the Royals draft him in the fourth round.
Speaker 1: The line from Art Stewart, the scouting director, was our
Speaker 1: franchise won't fold if bo Jackson doesn't sign here. He
Speaker 1: hated the Buccaneers so much the Royals agreed to signed
Speaker 1: to a million dollars. It was very important to Boat.
Speaker 1: The original offer was like nine point eighty thousand. You
Speaker 1: want a million, They said, we'll make you a millionaire,
Speaker 1: and they signed bo Jackson. In his contract he would
Speaker 1: be called up by the end of nine eighty six,
Speaker 1: which he was m Then the Raiders come calling. It's
Speaker 1: after or during the NFL lockout, or the players have
Speaker 1: a stoppage, and that same season eighty seven he ends
Speaker 1: up there. But what I find interesting they already had
Speaker 1: Marcus Allen, who was one of the great Super Bowl heroes.
Speaker 1: But like you talk about it in this book, it's
Speaker 1: very odd. They were like as good as Marcus Allen was,
Speaker 1: as charitable as he was, as glowing a personality as
Speaker 1: he was for the LA Raiders, al Davis didn't like him.
Speaker 1: We'll go and then bo Jackson comes along, and we've
Speaker 1: got two of the best running backs in one backfield. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's super weird. Al Davis has a lot of sort
Speaker 1: of like he was very impulsive and very in a
Speaker 1: way hard to read and somebody's very easy to read.
Speaker 1: And there was all this there was all this discussion
Speaker 1: always why did Bo Why did all Davis hate Marks
Speaker 1: Allen so much? And the best reason I got, I
Speaker 1: swear was after they won that supermow and eighty three
Speaker 1: eighty three right or eighty four they beat the Redskins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Marcus Allen appeared on the cover of a book about
Speaker 1: that season and Al Davis flipped and I really hated
Speaker 1: the idea of someone being the face of the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Besides Al Davis, I hated it. So he brings in
Speaker 1: Bo Jackson. He kind of used Bo Jackson in a
Speaker 1: way as a Marcus Allen anecdote, like I'll show you
Speaker 1: and we get about Bo Jackson. It's funny during his
Speaker 1: first practice with the Raiders, or one of his first
Speaker 1: practice is first practice, Um, it's it's eighty seven. You
Speaker 1: have a lot of the replacement players are stowing camp
Speaker 1: because they're helping get the older readers back in the shape.
Speaker 1: And Matt Millan and Rod Markin are playing linebackers in
Speaker 1: these drills and they're just beating up on the scabs
Speaker 1: like we're just gonna kill the scabs. And this guy
Speaker 1: takes a handoff and he runs around and Matt Millan
Speaker 1: he Matt Millen is like, whoa who was that guy?
Speaker 1: All right, miss is tackle. I'm gonna get back the
Speaker 1: same playing. He apologizes, right, he apologizes to the other guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's wrong with me. And he misses again,
Speaker 1: and he's like, geez, what the hell? Who's the scab?
Speaker 1: And Rod Martin is cracking up. He's like, you dumbass,
Speaker 1: that's that's Bow Jackson and Matt Millan's like huh. And
Speaker 1: on the sideline, Marks Allen is watching this drill with
Speaker 1: James Lofton, and Lofton says from him, well, there goes
Speaker 1: your job. It's did and Bow is that good? And
Speaker 1: obviously the Bodsworth game and the second Bosworth game because
Speaker 1: people don't realize and I didn't know this. I'm reading
Speaker 1: your book. Like the first game he ever played in
Speaker 1: was against Seattle. He didn't get the dress. And Bosworth
Speaker 1: has this like incredible game, and then of course he
Speaker 1: does what he does the Kingdome on Monday Night football.
Speaker 1: But I got a fast forward to eighty nine. I'm
Speaker 1: a seven year old kid in New Jersey and I
Speaker 1: know exactly where I was watching the MLB All Star
Speaker 1: Game and if you can't, I hate just teeing you
Speaker 1: up with stories, but this is what you do best.
Speaker 1: Like can just take us to Mickey Mantles in New
Speaker 1: York City, the whole situation and where we're at eighty
Speaker 1: nine and they'll be All Star Game. Bo Jackson starting
Speaker 1: in center field, so it's his only All Star Game appearance.
Speaker 1: And the day before the game, Tony LaRussa, who was
Speaker 1: a manager of the Al pulls Wade Bogs and boer Side.
Speaker 1: It says, you know, wait, I'm gonna have Bow lead off,
Speaker 1: just kind of for the moment, the bigness of the moment.
Speaker 1: Jackson's way boxes Cord. They practice a handshake actually to
Speaker 1: do after someone homers. So Bo Jackson leads off. Rick
Speaker 1: Rush was on the mound in the booth, Vince Scully
Speaker 1: and Ronald Reagan. It's a beautiful Southern California day ante stadium.
Speaker 1: Second pitch from Russell Bow takes a slider. It just
Speaker 1: nails a dead center into the batter's eye over air teams.
Speaker 1: Nike decided the Austar game was when they were going
Speaker 1: to debut the Bow. You don't know Deadly at which
Speaker 1: was their enormous ad by It was really the launch
Speaker 1: of Bow Knows. And that's the add with Jim Everett
Speaker 1: and Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky and Gibson Well, all
Speaker 1: the Nike executives are watching the game of Mickey Mantle's
Speaker 1: restaurant in New York City and which, by the way,
Speaker 1: it was a really good restaurant to great Burger. It
Speaker 1: was good. Yeah, yeah, it was really cool. It was
Speaker 1: right south the south the park and bo Jackson hits
Speaker 1: his homer and the ad is going to run at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the fourth inning and they just go crazy.
Speaker 1: They are jumping up and down, screaming, shouting, celebrating because
Speaker 1: the timing of this, the serendipity of we're doing this
Speaker 1: launch on the day that Bow Jackson, in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways announces himself as a national, national two sport phenomena.
Speaker 1: And you know obviously that that goes on to be
Speaker 1: one of the great sports marketing campaigns and one of
Speaker 1: the things. But I always say, O Jackson says almost
Speaker 1: nothing in those ads, like that's kind of amazing about it.
Speaker 1: Jordan talks in most of his ads p Jackson. He says.
Speaker 1: In one of the ads, he says, so when's that
Speaker 1: toward de France thing anyway? And I think he says
Speaker 1: in another one, so when's that Boston Marathon? That's it.
Speaker 1: He was a guy with a stutter. He was shy,
Speaker 1: he was soft spoken, he was guarded, and they built
Speaker 1: the perfect ad campaign based on his talents. He took
Speaker 1: a little a little easter egg on Gretzky and the
Speaker 1: the ice skating. Oh it's so funny. So everyone in
Speaker 1: that ad is supposed to say bonus, bonus, hockey, bonus
Speaker 1: based on his His line was bonus hockey. But he
Speaker 1: was terrible and actually he just put I mean one line,
Speaker 1: but he portraed it over and over again. Did so
Speaker 1: he just he goes up and he just says no.
Speaker 1: And they showed it didn't actually work perfectly. And there's
Speaker 1: a scene of bow skating and he's in a king's uniform,
Speaker 1: but it actually took place on a high school gym
Speaker 1: gym floor in Kansas, and he was wearing socks, no skates.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. And then he runs
Speaker 1: up the wall in Baltimore Memorial Stadium. I think you
Speaker 1: make a good point in the book, like people ask
Speaker 1: who's the best athlete of all time, and you can
Speaker 1: get Jim Thorpe, and you can get Dion Sanders, and
Speaker 1: you could talk. You're saying, Bowl, there's never been another
Speaker 1: human being who's run up a wall before? Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that not the statement that Bow? Just if you
Speaker 1: want to see what Bow Jackson was as an athlete,
Speaker 1: watch him cash his fly ball as he runs up
Speaker 1: an actual outfield wall. Because you can always say, you
Speaker 1: know whoa that throw by whoever was amazing, or that
Speaker 1: run by so and so it was amazing. Of course
Speaker 1: a John Ross or someone ran in at the same time. Combine,
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. No one's ever run up
Speaker 1: the wall. And I interviewed a lot of it. So further,
Speaker 1: it was a flimsy wall. It was in Baltimore's old
Speaker 1: Memorial State. It was flimsy, and he ran up the
Speaker 1: wall and he was so high up the wall. I
Speaker 1: talked to guys with the Orioles. The guys in the
Speaker 1: bullpen pulled back because they thought Bow was coming over
Speaker 1: the wall, and yeah, no one's ever done it. Other
Speaker 1: things I taught to a guy named Chad Allen and
Speaker 1: played with Boone and the memph with the Memphis Chicks.
Speaker 1: He said there was a game against Charlotte in the
Speaker 1: minor leagues and bo also ran up a wall, but
Speaker 1: they were like forty guys there at the game. So
Speaker 1: when he saw it, he was like, oh, there you go.
Speaker 1: The next day, the finding is the next day across
Speaker 1: the major leagues during BP, guys are shagging balls and
Speaker 1: guys are trying to run up the raw the wall,
Speaker 1: so all across the majors and no one could do it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: no one's done a sense, it's incredible the four, one,
Speaker 1: seven forty ungrassed the running up the wall. And yet
Speaker 1: you make a good point throughout the book that you
Speaker 1: know Bow's legacy and why he's a folk hero, and
Speaker 1: maybe why it adds to the mystiqua Bow is that
Speaker 1: it all ends so quickly, and he's not necessarily Michael
Speaker 1: Strahan or Charles Barkley or painting and Eli Manning. You
Speaker 1: don't see Bow Jackson. He's still alive, he's still around,
Speaker 1: and yet very short NFL career, very short baseball career
Speaker 1: came over the hip surgery. Obviously had his moment with
Speaker 1: the White soft but that wasn't along. Do you think
Speaker 1: that adds to me? That's the mystique that like what
Speaker 1: could have been is almost more fascinating than like, all right,
Speaker 1: he had a nice tenure career and was a really
Speaker 1: good athlete at the peak of it times a million.
Speaker 1: I don't want to write the m Smith biography. Well,
Speaker 1: and with all due respect Emi Smith, I don't want
Speaker 1: to write that book. I don't want to write the
Speaker 1: Gary Sheffield biography. With all due respect to Gary Sheffield.
Speaker 1: The whole thing about bow Jackson is all right. First
Speaker 1: of all, there are enough. There are those five or
Speaker 1: six highlights on YouTube just to me, not just great runs,
Speaker 1: but running up a wall, throwing out Howard Reynolds at home,
Speaker 1: running over the bars, the ninety one yard run, running
Speaker 1: over my carden. Enough of those where you say, holy crap.
Speaker 1: But there aren't enough where we have two hundred, you know,
Speaker 1: like there's enough where you believe the mythology, where you
Speaker 1: believe that actually is possible that he hit them all
Speaker 1: so high, that he rounded the third, that he did
Speaker 1: run in four one, three forty, And if we saw
Speaker 1: it all, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting. So Emma
Speaker 1: Smith was amazing. But we saw it all. Gary Sheffield, amazing,
Speaker 1: we saw it all. I love the question mark over
Speaker 1: about it's a whole thing. It is the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I'll end it with this. I love this book so much. Right,
Speaker 1: and like then they're doing the media and both comes
Speaker 1: out and he's like, I didn't take part in this book.
Speaker 1: You didn't interview Bo. Did you try to get Bow
Speaker 1: for this book? And what has been the response since?
Speaker 1: And have you heard from Bow directly, because honestly, Jeff,
Speaker 1: I've read some of your books. They're not always glowing
Speaker 1: about the subject. The far book is very fair. The
Speaker 1: Walter Payton book of course, had its you know, reaction
Speaker 1: by many in the Chicago media. This book, Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: some stuff early on in Bo's childhood where you're like,
Speaker 1: he was a bit of a bully and he had
Speaker 1: this hey or whatever. But that's like this was a
Speaker 1: love letter to Bo Jackson's athletic ability and what he
Speaker 1: meant to the culture at the time. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: thank you. I early on I sent Bo a copy
Speaker 1: of my other books and a letter and he called me,
Speaker 1: I was in my backyard twenty twenty hard of the
Speaker 1: pandemic and he was super nice, like super nice. He
Speaker 1: was like, hey, Jeff is bo Jackson. And we talked
Speaker 1: for a long time. He was getting his wife a
Speaker 1: chop salad. He was driving to get our chop salad
Speaker 1: and what he's doing in his life, and he was cool,
Speaker 1: and he's like, look, I am, I don't care that
Speaker 1: you're I don't mind that you're doing this book. I
Speaker 1: remember probably are doing it. I just I get to
Speaker 1: ask about this stuff all the time. I'm just not
Speaker 1: really interested. I said, that's fine. But I got really
Speaker 1: lucky because he had an autobiography, which I bet you
Speaker 1: read because we're similar, you know. Ninety yeah, And before
Speaker 1: Dick shap passed away, he donated um all the audio files,
Speaker 1: all the transcripts, notes, et cetera from that Boone Knows
Speaker 1: boat experience to the Auburn University Library, which I did
Speaker 1: not know. And I spent about two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: bucks and I had it all copied and sent to me.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone had looked at it since Bono's
Speaker 1: Boat came out literally five hundred six hundred. I don't
Speaker 1: know pages of the transcripts of everything A gift. Oh man,
Speaker 1: it never made the book. There was also the audios
Speaker 1: I find things Jeremy Shop transcribe most but he was all,
Speaker 1: so thank you Jeremy Shop. Um. And then since the
Speaker 1: book has come out, bow, do you reach out a
Speaker 1: note thank you, a dismissal of the book anything, he U.
Speaker 1: He tweeted something about if you're going it might be
Speaker 1: his pintweet a West for a while. If you're gun
Speaker 1: to read anything about me, don't read a quote unauthorized
Speaker 1: biography way to hear it from me, which suggests maybe
Speaker 1: he's gonna write an autobiography, which to me totally coolte
Speaker 1: and totally fine. But I just want to say, like
Speaker 1: I really need this, Like you're a writer, I'm a writer.
Speaker 1: Bo Jackson's autobiography, just as an example, which I really love,
Speaker 1: he talks about going over twenty one for twenty one
Speaker 1: strikeouts in his first twenty one college baseball facts and
Speaker 1: I thought that was really interesting. In fact, I called
Speaker 1: different aubortunity. It's asked about it. They were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he really struggled. Oh it was rough. Well, I start
Speaker 1: digging through the old baseball box scores and he went
Speaker 1: two for five against Southern Illinois his first college game
Speaker 1: and then he won one for nineteen and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying he was lying at all. His memory is tricky,
Speaker 1: and the reason you write biographies is because you give
Speaker 1: a different perspective. It's a historic book. He's a historic figure,
Speaker 1: and you want to sort of you want to look
Speaker 1: into someone beyond just what he has to say. There's
Speaker 1: more to a story, into a history than just one
Speaker 1: person's perspective. It's a great take. Thank you for coming
Speaker 1: on the podcast, but also thank you for writing this book.
Speaker 1: It is if you're a fan of just sports and
Speaker 1: nineties nostalgia and eighties nostalgia, you gotta pick it up
Speaker 1: real quick. The person that's reached out to you since
Speaker 1: that has made you smile the most, because I think
Speaker 1: anyone who loves either sport just loved I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a story about him going fishing with Rick Dempsey. There's
Speaker 1: hell McCray ripping up glossy photos of him, like every name,
Speaker 1: George Brett, Marcus Allen, Matt Mill and how we long
Speaker 1: all the names that you remember from that era. Who's
Speaker 1: reached out to you since the book has come out
Speaker 1: that it's made you smile and say, yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: If that person read it. Oh yeah, the best was
Speaker 1: the guy who threw Bo Jackson out, the only guy
Speaker 1: who threw Bo Jackson out in high school. Sam DAWs,
Speaker 1: his daughter emailed me the other day and said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, my dad is thrilled. This is amazing. So
Speaker 1: bringing people to light from past life really warms my heart.
Speaker 1: That's so good, guys, you gotta get the book. It's
Speaker 1: the last folk hero. It's Perman and Jeff, you're a
Speaker 1: good husband and you're a menshould partick and your wife
Speaker 1: to the airport and we appreciate you coming on the podcast.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much. You're the man, dude. See,
Speaker 1: I enjoy doing that. Jeff Berman is a good writer.
Speaker 1: And if we're gonna have Robert Sala and Joe Shane
Speaker 1: and Paul Rudd on like, this is another lane we
Speaker 1: can do. Perlman spent years working on that Bow Jackson book,
Speaker 1: interviewed seven hundred people and then puts out a book
Speaker 1: into the earth, and you're like, you just hope people respond. Now, Aaron,
Speaker 1: as I'm doing the interview and I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven the NFL players strike, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: my other window on the zoom and I'm looking at you,
Speaker 1: who is of a different generation. You're younger than me, Like,
Speaker 1: does Bo Jackson mean anything to your generations? Bo Jackson
Speaker 1: as a sports and amnating to you. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know a ton of the history behind him, but
Speaker 1: I loved hearing about it, and like I now just
Speaker 1: have to go on YouTube and look up these like
Speaker 1: the clip of him running up a wall like this
Speaker 1: sounds incredible, and so just to find some like new
Speaker 1: figures of really important sports history is a great thing.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So in ninety one, he's in the playoff
Speaker 1: game against the Bengals and he hurts his hip. He
Speaker 1: never plays football again, and like everyone says that, like
Speaker 1: if it had happened in two thousand and one or
Speaker 1: two and twenty one, that's a simple surgery and you know,
Speaker 1: give him eight to ten months, he'll be back. But
Speaker 1: they didn't have the science back then. They'd have the
Speaker 1: medicine back then to fix that. He did come back
Speaker 1: to baseball, and I think in his first step bat
Speaker 1: hits a home run for the White Sox, which is
Speaker 1: like just the perfect like sports lure and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And then for Jeff like, what do you heard what
Speaker 1: he said? Ten books, seven of them have now been
Speaker 1: optioned and Winning Times? Did you watch Winning Time? And
Speaker 1: HBO loved it? Right, So he's the original writer of
Speaker 1: all that. And then he tells the story about his
Speaker 1: daughter being able to smoke a cigar with him, and
Speaker 1: you're like, that's pretty cool. That's a cool moment for
Speaker 1: like a sports writer, a guy who's been writing books
Speaker 1: and just churning out these books and they're all bestsellers
Speaker 1: and he lives a very good life, I'm sure, but
Speaker 1: like to have this second chapter where now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden he's like this Hollywood guy, that's pretty cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I have not had a cigar with my dad,
Speaker 1: but I have had a cigar with Michael Chicklist, So
Speaker 1: you know, similar, similar thing. You've had a cigar with
Speaker 1: the commission You've had a cigar with Michael Chicklist. What
Speaker 1: does that thing? Yeah? More, Also, tequila to his daughter
Speaker 1: makes an incredible tequila. Actually that there's a lot of
Speaker 1: that story. I'm sure. Do we want to share that
Speaker 1: story or just leave it at let's let well, well
Speaker 1: we'll get well, yeah, we'll get to it. And the listeners, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: we'll leave that as a little teaser. I'm headed to
Speaker 1: Munich in a few hours. Any tips for this trip,
Speaker 1: oh from me Man, I haven't been to Germany in
Speaker 1: many years. Um, but uh, get something good to read.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you got plenty of books, probably already for
Speaker 1: the flight. And uh yeah, I'm excited to hear. How
Speaker 1: you uh what do you guys do there? This might
Speaker 1: this might upset some people. Um if the German cultures
Speaker 1: might have set some people who are with the NFL.
Speaker 1: But I told a guy at my kids school that
Speaker 1: I was going to Germany and he goes, Berlin, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Cologne, No, No, I go, I'm going to Munich.
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh okay, and I go, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty excited and I can't wait. I mean, is it
Speaker 1: And he looks at me and he goes, yeah, Munich
Speaker 1: like the hoboken of Germany. Like huh. Alright. So I'm
Speaker 1: headed there. On that note, I will have updates. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we'll talk all about it. I'm sure i'll get
Speaker 1: into some high jinks and if I have a beer
Speaker 1: with Brady, don't be shocked. I usually find my way
Speaker 1: into these kind of situations. Guys, thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: the podcast. Aaron, You're the man. The music is our guy,
Speaker 1: Jack Rudd and of course Jason English, iHeart and all
Speaker 1: the NFL folks. Thank you for this opportunity. We love
Speaker 1: doing it a little different podcasts this week. Jeff Brohman
Speaker 1: our guest, but let's keep it rocking. You mean, Aaron,
Speaker 1: Jeff Saturday. Let's Go the Season with Peter Schrager is
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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.