WEBVTT - Trust Needs Proof: Who Really Controls Your AI? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.000 Hey everyone, it's os Today. We're bringing you a new 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:07.160 episode of Smart Talks with IBM. This season, Malcolm Gladwell 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.680 talks to leaders using AI and emerging technology to change 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:11.320 the game. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:11.959 In their industries. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:14.960 From Heinech and using AI to become the world's best 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.680 connected brewer, to UFC using data to turn chaos into 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.120 clarity for fans and commentators, to Cleveland Clinic using AI 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:28.240 and quantum computing to accelerate discovery in biomedical research. Smart 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.880 Talks with IBM explores how organizations are applying technology in 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:37.080 unexpected and transformative ways. New episodes drop every month wherever 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.560 you get your podcasts. Learn more at IBM dot com 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:45.040 slash smart Talks. This is a paid advertisement from IBM. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.919 Hi Malcolm Glawell, and you're listening to Smart Talks with IBM. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.200 Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build 0:00:54.320 --> 0:01:00.480 and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, afordable, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.560 so over time more and more of your operations rely 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.600 on it. Then one day the terms change. What once 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.959 felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.000 provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.800 could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:26.360 the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.400 rely on all sorts of third party systems, cloud platforms, 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:36.040 data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.600 operate quietly in the background, but when something changes, like 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.680 costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.840 confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. This 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.240 is why digital sovereignty has shifted from policy concept to 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.880 board level priority. So to understand the challenge up close, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.200 I traveled to Paris to Vivtech, Europe's largest technology conference, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.920 to speak with two people who think about these. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.400 Questions every day on a Paula a. 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:13.280 Cis, IBM's senior vice president and chair for IBM EMEA 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:22.320 and APAC, and Giovanni Daniello, group chief Information Officer at AKSA. Hello, everyone, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:28.440 welcome to a live taping of the podcast Smart Talks 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.200 with IBM. I was downstairs in the IBM booths chatting 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.320 with the people who were doing the data Sovereignty presentation, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.360 and they were discussing the and I said, oh, it 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:43.240 sounds like you're solving a headache. And the guy I 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.360 was trying to said, that's all we do at IBM. 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.640 We solve headaches and cure headaches, and I want I 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:49.920 want to start out with the two of you. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.240 What is the headache in this instance? 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.200 So the topic of sovereignty gained a lot of traction 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.119 over the past few years, in even though I would 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.239 say it really became a buzzword this year. I think 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.480 that this actually started during COVID, when all the supply 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:15.880 chains became extremely stressed and companies and governments started to 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.560 understand that there were a lot of choke points in 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.520 the world, right, so how can I do more ear 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.359 shore in how can I guarantee that I have autonomy 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.960 of key elements of my supply chain? I think was 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.280 really the wake up call. And then we entered in 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:35.000 a period of unfortunately many wars happening constraining for example, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:36.240 energy security. 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:37.920 So all these. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.800 Disruptions in the world led companies and governments to think, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.200 what is really that I need to consider as critical 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.840 for me, and how do I have better control of 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:52.160 those capabilities? And now technology being at the core of 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.400 the operations, I think that actually increased the need. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.000 For companies to focus on sovereignty. 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.560 So that is the headache given that there are so 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.000 many dependencies, given that we're living in a world that 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:07.120 is so interconnected, how do you get autonomy, how do 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.840 you get back control making sure that you continue to 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.320 operate in a collaborative ecosystem. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.440 It's a difficulty equilibrium in reality, because we have to 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.520 take all those dimensions into consideration making sure that at 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.680 the same time we can continue to access innovation. And 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.719 that's where the paradigm is is really very, very complicated 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.719 to solve. So the headache we have in AXA and 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.839 then probably many large organizations in the in the world 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.360 is exactly the topic in Europe at least it's it's 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.760 about sovereignty exactly in the terms you are talking about, 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.240 and that's becoming a topic that is very there is 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.880 a there's a lot of visibility very in the agenda 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.960 at very top executive level since probably it started with Coviy, 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:57.680 I agree. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.000 But the last two years there's been an acceleration clearly. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.760 Yeah, and I really have a few data points. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:08.479 Today we announced a study through our IBM Institute of 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:14.120 Business Value where basically we as companies around the world, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.680 So do you have visibility of your dependencies? 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:17.960 Right? 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.679 Do you know exactly where are your exposures? And only 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.520 nine percent of the companies said that they have that 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:30.520 level of visibility, and seventy one percent of the company 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.560 said that if they needed to switch a provider today, 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:35.000 it would be very. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.279 Difficult to do so. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.680 So I think the headache this is actually shows in 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:41.560 numbers the size of the headache. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:48.680 Yeah, you're in the insurance business. Speak to the specifics 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.640 of your own business. Why would this be an issue that? 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.880 Am I right in thinking that this is an issue 0:05:54.880 --> 0:06:00.479 that is a specific and special concern to an insurance. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:01.680 No, I don't think so. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.880 No, No, I don't think so, because in reality, it's 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:10.240 an issue for organizations using technology data in AI as 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.960 an important driver within the activities they manage. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:14.800 Insurance. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.880 Of course, insurance is about data, it's about people, it's 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.560 about technology, of course, so it's very very central. 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.520 But it's absolutely not limited to insurance. 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.080 Because at the end, if we want to talk a 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.920 little bit more into details, what is sovereignty Because everybody 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.159 talks about sovereignty, but what is it about? And very 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.880 often people believe that once you know where your data 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.680 are located and if you are your open company, if 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.720 you have the certainty that data are located in Europe. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.640 Many people believe I'm safe, I'm sobeer incompatible. Well it's 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.559 absolutely not enough. So there are models that not only 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.560 we are using an accept that are also very very 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.839 public on the market. Very often will refer to four dimensions. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.320 Of course, allocation is number one. If you don't know 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.560 where your data are, I mean, you don't know anything. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.320 But it's not only that, I mean how do you operate? 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.160 Who is operating the system, who is patching, who is 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.280 creating new versions of whatever the feature that becomes available. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:22.600 That's the second one. The third one is contracts, legal terms. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:28.240 Who is in charge legally speaking of the activities we 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.280 talk about, and and and the last one is the 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:37.280 technicality itself. Who is really mastering the technical details the 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:42.120 underlying stack. Is it something that is European, US, China? 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.440 You know? And I mean it's it's it's known by everybody. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:51.080 Most of the large European companies and US companies are 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.880 using US technologies. So the difficulty in soeranties to scan 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.720 on a permanent basis the four dimensions. Making sure that it, 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.920 as we're saying, anow that you know exactly what is 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.120 exactly the situation on your business on those four dimensions. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.240 Give me an example of how a specific example of 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.440 what difference it would make where your data was being held. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.640 In other words, in what sense our regulatory requirements for example, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.120 different from one country to another, or from the EU 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.320 to North America Or is there a practical way to 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.600 kind of express those differences. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:28.520 Yeah, there are. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:33.440 Very clear regulations in many of the countries regarding what 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.360 type of data needs to reside inside the country, right, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:44.880 so particularly financial data, health data, those are really really 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.760 controlled and they have to follow those regulatory requirements. So 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.760 the way that we approach that in our architecture in 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:58.679 our platform is to enforce those regulator regulatory requirements within 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.720 the platform so that this is not just relied from 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.480 a contract toal standpoint, but that you ensure with governance 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.360 tools and with capabilities that the platform is securing that 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:15.200 data in compliance with those regulatory aspects. And when you 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.360 think about sovereignty, it has to go beyond just the 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:23.880 regulatory and compliance requirements. It's really understanding your business requirements. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:24.760 What are the. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.520 Applications that are truly mission critical and that you need 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.240 to ensure that have that level of control because also 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:37.040 controlling everything is not necessarily viable, not from a technical 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.199 standpoint and not from a business case standpoint, right, So 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.480 that is the I think that is the challenge that 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.160 many companies are going right now, is to have the 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.559 visibility of their application mistake, how that matches the business strategy, 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.640 and then making the decisions on what is the level 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.559 of sovereignty that I need to apply. 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.679 Let's say I'm a naive company, I don't pay any 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.960 attention to this, I have operations in any different countries. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.560 What's the worst case scenario, what's the down What's what 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.400 happens if you don't act kind of prudently around data sovereignty. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.160 So I think the first aspect is if something happens 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.160 to your infrastructure that is sitting somewhere that you don't 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:26.800 have visibility, goes out for some reason, a war and 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:32.719 energy blackout, any other cyber attack in your environment, if 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.040 you don't have a fallback plan, if you don't have 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.680 a way to move that application to operate from another 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.960 place that has the backups the real time data that 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:43.320 you are accessing to your. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.280 Pretty much go out of out of operations, right. So 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:46.719 it's a. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.560 That's a very important question because I think it brings 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.240 the sovereignty aspect to what I believe is the strategic 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.120 role that it plays. It's about resiliency, it's not about 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:04.040 necessarily just meeting regulatory requirements, and I think you need 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.760 to do that from a risk management standpoint, and I 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.280 think an insurance company is the best position to do that. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.840 But it's not just regulations, it's really making sure that 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.679 you have continuous operation twenty four by seven, which is 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:23.400 pretty much what businesses need to achieve. 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:29.440 Currrectly in some countries for insurance, for example, but not 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:34.360 only for insurance. In some countries there are obligations locally, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.600 for example, to store data in the country. So back 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.840 to your question, there's a limit to how naive you 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.520 can be if you want to develop a business, because 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.760 that's at the heart of getting the authorization to operate 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.360 and to run your business in the countries where you 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.760 would like to. But then once you are over this 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.800 kind of MVP of requirements that are mandatory for you 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.439 to open and operate, then of course, I mean that's 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.600 a good thing that an What you said is completely 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:04.840 completely relevant. 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:11.800 How does how does one anticipate these issues changing over time? 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.280 In other words, you said that people are going to 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.000 wake up to the importance of data sovereignty during COVID. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.640 I'm just curious if we fast forward five years, do 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.440 we imagine that the kind of landscape in which companies 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.360 like you as you and are operating is going to 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.040 get more complex or less complex? What's the what's the 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:31.000 movement in this? 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.480 I think it's going to become more complex because AI 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.199 is really accelerating all the trends. 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.839 Why I want you to can you expect I want 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.160 you to kind of do a little deep dive on AY, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.800 what specifically is it about AI that's complicating this? 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:49.920 That's a very good question. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.600 AI now moves from you know, actions just being taken 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.000 from you know, somebody operating a system to the technology 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.880 actually making decisions. Right, So you have to have a 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:09.240 much better visibility of what systems AI is touching, what 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.439 data it is accessing, and where, right. So you have 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.040 to have that mapping much more clear because the stakes 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.439 are higher now on how technology is actually operating your business. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:22.000 Right. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.800 So I do think that there is an acceleration because 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.520 of that. The second element, AI is going to increase 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.920 the amount of vulnerabilities that are going to be either 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.720 identified or created. So you have to have an ability 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:42.240 to continuously monitor and scan what is happening in the 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.400 cybersecurity landscape so that you can prevent and react in 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.640 a much faster way. So there are more elements of 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.320 disruption that are coming up as a result of the 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:54.800 acceleration of technology. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:01.640 I can give you a concrete example. The way applications 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:06.600 work today is pretty much deterministic. You have rules, you 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.680 have data, you have processes. Very often embed it into 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.760 the the code, into the business logic. So these are 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.520 executed and very often if you have the same input, 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.800 you have the same output. And so you have I 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.880 mean application with modules, you have APIs, you have data, 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.720 you have you know beautiful. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:26.240 Mobile first front ends. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.080 You know all these fancy things that we that we 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.160 run on the cloud or on premium whatever. So let's 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.320 project yourself into a couple of years from now where 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.000 the architecture is going to be agentic native. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.400 With concepts such as head less applications. 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:46.240 So you will interact with kind of prompt interface and 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.200 you will start asking as a customer or as an 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.360 employee or as a partner, you will ask interacting and 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.640 asking a certain number of problems to be solved, and 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.400 this is going to be given through tokens and all 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.960 these all these technologies into an ecosystem of digital agents 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.960 orchestrated and orchestrating activities looking at what is in the 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.800 in the rug in terms of what is the process 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:13.960 telling me about how do I have to manage that? 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.680 What kind of data do I have in my repository? 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.160 And you enter into something which is going to become 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.840 much more probabilistic, and you have llms there in the 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:28.200 meantime in the middle trying to get answers smart answers 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.160 to queries that will come from. 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:31.800 Specialized digital agents. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:37.600 So there's nothing to do with the way applications run today. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.240 And if you look at the flow of data today 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.560 that we know, we know where the data located. That 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.760 was saying you know a lot of things we know 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.280 and how the data is going to flow in all 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.320 the directions in this Argentic native architecture. You understand that, 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.800 as you said, this is going to accelerate significantly and 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.480 the need to understand the underlying stack and architecture in 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:08.080 the sovereign the ecosystem is going to be crucial. You know, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.040 data can suddenly become public public in the way they 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.960 can be used to train models and a little bit 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:16.840 of your IP step by stead of going to go 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.000 into those those models if they learn if you are 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.400 not careful, that's what it's going to happen. Of course, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.040 there are ways to prevent that, but if you're not careful, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.600 you can suddenly see the world around you becoming more 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.400 intelligent than you on your own business. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.800 It seems like there's a this is a very crude 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.640 way of putting it, but there's a race going on 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.320 with the technology on running one race and then the 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.120 other race. Is our ability to kind of make sense 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.520 of it, have visibility and it integrate the technology into 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:47.960 the way we. 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.480 Do our who's winning that race right now? Is it? 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.280 Is it hard to keep up with the technology. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.880 That's why I think you need the technology to govern 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.640 the technology right and and and to me, that is 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:04.080 what our proposition with this platform that we launched a 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.880 few weeks ago called Sovereign Core, is to provide that 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.920 those that tool in and those capabilities to help organizations 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.880 create those capabilities. Because what we learned already is that 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.680 as your Money explained very well, the technology is going 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:26.040 to accelerate exponentially. How do you map that with that 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:30.200 same level of speed only another technology that is going 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.440 to you know, operate at the same level of acceleration. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:35.680 And that is. 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.040 Exactly the proposition that we have in supporting our clients. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.440 So that's the headache that you're trying to solve. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.600 Givani, do you I'm assuming you've been in this field 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:46.960 of technology. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.679 For how many years or thirty years? 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.400 Is there any I'm curious to compare the moment we're 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.760 into any previous moments. So you've now lived through several 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.640 technological uphea How does this one compare to the ones 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:03.560 earlier in your career? 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.399 For me, this one is very clearly the one that 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:14.560 has the highest potential and in terms of speed, there's 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.920 no precedent everything we've done in the past where we've been. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.560 Trying to modernize. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.639 Let's take a complete, complete exam modernizing business applications. We 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.879 had this discussion a couple of months ago. So like 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.959 all the companies in the world, we have legacy applications. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.760 All the companies have legacy applications that have been written 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.879 I don't know, thirty fifty years ago, and the journey 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.600 to modernize those applications has been the last let's say, 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.600 the last fifteen years, something like very often a five 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.159 years ticket. Every time you wanted to work to modernize something, 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.760 including migration and decommissioning. And every time we even a 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.280 year ago, every time we were thinking about how there's 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.119 technology out there we can go much, much, much faster, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.120 we've always been blocked, and then we always came back 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:11.080 to that unit of performance of the five years. And 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:17.080 since this year, things are become potentially feasible, because that's 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.199 the Augentic revolution, because then you can specialize agents like 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.280 people in a team, to split the process into subtasks, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.040 and everybody is going to be very smart and intelligent 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:29.520 in solving a part of the problem. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:31.440 And then if you are good enough to. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:37.200 Orchestrate that towards an outcome, which could be an application, modernization, ABC, whatsoever. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.359 Potentially I'm saying potentially, but this is now technologically we 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.080 see that it can work. You can do that, not 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:45.679 any more than five years, but maybe I don't know, 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.840 a year and a half, two years, maybe a little 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.760 bit less. Why not, I don't know, but you see, 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.679 the difference is simply huge. I've never seen that before. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:55.960 Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.680 I think the compression that you're seeing in project delivery, 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:04.760 new products that we are releasing, updating versions of products, 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.960 it's something that is absolutely unprecedented. So the base of 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.000 innovation is happening very fast. And if we think that 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:17.360 AI has already created a tremendous impact, let's wait for quantum, right, 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.280 which is going to even take this to another level. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.280 And the mixed the combination, the prombination of both. 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.120 Yes, it's a very. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.679 Interesting contradiction at the core of all this, which is 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:36.199 that intuitively, we know that innovation thrives on openness into connectedness, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.159 you know, no border or whatever. But so datus already 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:45.760 makes us think very specifically and often, I would imagine, 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.280 painfully about the reality of orders. 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.720 How do you manage that contradiction? 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.600 I think that is really the challenge that we are 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.239 all facing right now, right I don't think we have 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:02.960 one hundred percent clear answer yet. There are certain elements 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:08.680 of this tack that clearly, I mean, trying to reinvent 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.480 is actually going to be a reinvention of the wheel, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.960 Like I mean, I'm not going to develop chips from 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.639 the scratch from scratch, for example, infrastructure from scratch, but 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.760 there are other elements of the stack that I can 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.040 get much better control. 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:23.560 Right. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.680 So for example, to the point that you'vanni made before, where. 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.800 My data is sitting, what is the orchestration layer that 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.040 I can implement so that I can bring the right 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.719 player at the right time. So look at the stack 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.280 of technology that you are implementing and see what are 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.560 the elements where number one, it's feasible to achieve control 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.960 and number two, I know that it's something that I 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:52.199 actually have to do to make my business resilient. And 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.960 focus on those, right, because if you try to address 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.119 the entire stack, or if you try to create a 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:03.840 model that basic build a fortress, that's not going to. 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.679 Be even feasible for you to achieve. 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.879 Right, And normally say that sovereignty is not about building walls, 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.359 it's about building bridges, right, It's how you really created 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:14.520 those connections. 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.520 I like, I like the way you phrase it. 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.720 That's exactly that, because at the end, if you put 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:29.439 sovereignty as an architecture requirement when you do design, I 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.800 don't say it's the it's it's it's the key to 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.439 this very difficult you know, parading, but at least. 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:37.840 It's making choices easier. 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:44.120 So, for example, if you if you don't put sovereignty 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.800 as a business requirement, and you want to develop your 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.080 business in the cloud, what you are going to. 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.919 Do is probably look at the available features that ive 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.120 features from the cloud provider. You're going to use those 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:57.480 features full speed to go. 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.000 As fast as possible, as efficient as possible, and get 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.080 access to all the stack innovation and everything else. And 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.239 the day you have a problem, you cannot switch, or 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:10.040 it will take you five years and five hundred million 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:10.560 to switch. 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:12.639 If you take the. 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:19.439 Sovereignty as a requirement by design, when you want to 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.840 start the configuration of your stack, you ask yourself, what 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.280 do I have to concretely put here as a configuration item? 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.399 If I want to be, for example, multi cloud compatible 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.680 or multi cloud and on prem compatible, what kind of 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.159 additional technologies maybe I have to use in order to 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.720 be able to I mean, do some portability of some 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:46.720 workload from one platform to another. Not because I want 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:48.480 to do that every day, because it makes no sense. 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.159 But if tomorrow I have a problem, I want to 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.919 be sure that by design I can I know what 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:55.760 the process I'm going to use. What's the process is 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:58.080