1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: It's it's it's it could happen here the podcast. The 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: thing that's happening here is that once again, like a 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: bunch of random American politicians are going in Taiwan, and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: this time they didn't announced they were going, apparently because 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: announcing they were going last time went great. So yeah, 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: this is this is, this is what we're talking about today, 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: and with with me is James. Hello James, how how 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: you doing? All right? I'm wonderful and I'm splendid. Oh okay, 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: so we have to talk about Taiwan. And I think 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: like people who have listened to me on this show 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: for a while know that, like so like, okay, a 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: lot of my family is some Taiwan. I don't like 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: talking about Taiwan very much. Um I I think I've 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: talked about Taiwan the politics and detail exactly once on 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: this show when I was forced to for Iguana wood shooting, 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: and like I would really prefer not to like not 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: something I particularly enjoy talking about, which is you know, 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: a big part about what we haven't But unfortunately I 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: can't continue not to talk about it because the American 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: left and and this is true of not just the 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: American Institute the British Lift. This is true of the 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: left kind of writ large is being systematically lied to 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: about Taiwan by a group of incredibly malicious nationalists who 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: are attempting to rally support for their like incredibly violent 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: and bizarre imperial delusions, and unfortunately it's working. So I'm 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: and instead of that, I'm going to give what I'm 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: gonna call Taiwan one oh one, and I'm calling it 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: tai Wan one on one, even though this is going 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: to be like an hour long, because this is as 30 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: far as I could cut this whole thing down, Like 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: Taiwanese politics is genuinely complicated, as part of the reason 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: I like talking about it, and at people who are 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: giving you simple answers to what's happening in Taiwan are 34 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: lying to you. This is the best I can do, 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: and it this is this is like the length of 36 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: a Bachelor's episode. So nice, I'm excited. Yeah, So well, 37 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: welcome with ti Want one on one. Um. The beginning 38 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: of Tie one one on one is that Taiwan is 39 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: a series of islands off the coast of China. And yes, 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: there are a bunch of islands. Nobody talks about this 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: like because again, people who talk about Taiwan like couldn't 42 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: find their own ass on a map. So you know, 43 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: there there, there, there's a bunch of islands. There's one 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: big one that there's several like a lot of smaller ones. Um. Now, 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: one of the sort of fundamental principles of not just 46 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: being on the left, but like being a decent person 47 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: is self determination. And you know, self determination on on 48 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: a very basic level is that people have the right 49 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: to choose how they want to live, and in a 50 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: more immediate political context, they have the right to choose 51 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: how they want to organize their governments and who they 52 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: do and don't want to be ruled by. So okay, well, 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: what are the actual numbers in Taiwan? Say, well, okay, 54 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: we we we have recent pulling from the National Chung 55 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: Chi University's elect Election Studies Center, which says that a 56 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: grand total of six point six percent of Taiwan's population 57 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: wants unification with China. The overwhelming majority of people in 58 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Taiwan eight want to just maintain the status quo, which yeah, 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: I guess I said. So the status quo right now 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: is that like China claims that it is the sole 61 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: legitimate Government of Taiwan. UM. Taiwan like technically legally claims 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: that they are the sole legitimate government China. Nobody actually 63 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: believes that anymore. Like if if you scoured the entirety 64 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: of Taiwan, you might find six dudes in a bunker 65 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: who still believe that, like they're the real government of Tchina. Like, 66 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: but the actual status quo is that Taiwan is basically 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: de fact is like this, Taiwan is de factoway self 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: governing polity that has elections and stuff, and yeah, everyone 69 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: gets incredibly mad about this. Most people want to preserve 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: the status quo. Um inside of the people who want 71 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: to maintain the status quo, you have, you know, it's 72 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: like like basically for for three different options basically, so 73 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: there's very similar numbers of people who either want to 74 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: like decide the formal status of Taiwan, like is an 75 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: independent country as a part of China that if you 76 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: want to kick it down the road. Some of them 77 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: want to keep the status quo indefinitely, and some of 78 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: them want to move towards full independence like later on. 79 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: But overwhelmingly what people want in Taiwan is for nothing 80 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: to happen now if this were a saying in rational world, 81 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: that would be the end of the episode. Right, Taiwan 82 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: doesn't want to be ruled by China, Like okay, well 83 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: that's okay, that's the right, they have the right self determination. 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: That's it. Case closed and a story. It literally doesn't 85 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: matter what the Chinese government thinks about whether it should 86 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: control Taiwan, because again, Taiwan doesn't want to be ruled 87 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: by China. And because a British person, I maybe I 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: maybe you ought to like not contribute further to that discussion. Yeah, 89 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and I mean, you know, there's 90 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: there's there's this whole thing that exists right where when 91 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: when you when you force your role on another population, 92 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: it is called imperialism considered to be bad and anyway 93 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: and everything is it's still bad even if everyone inside 94 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: the imperial power thinks that it's good. Like if every 95 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: person in the US suddenly decided tomorrow but they wanted 96 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: to invade Cuba, like, it wouldn't make it morally right 97 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: because people in Cuba don't want to people in the US, 98 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: which we've done before. But it's true. Yeah, this is 99 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: partially why I picked Cuba as example, because we really 100 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: we did this. We we really did like kill an 101 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: enormous number of people trying did Yeah, based on bullshit 102 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: that people made up and portrayed his news. There was 103 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: the best speculation. Yeah. But you know, as we can 104 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: tell by the fact that the U. S Has invaded Cuba, 105 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: we do not live in a saying irrational world. We 106 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: live in hell. And this means that I have a 107 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: talk about a bunch of which is absolutely bullshit, arguments 108 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: that a bunch of nationalist dip ships made up justify imperialism. 109 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: So all right, this is where we start going into 110 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: townan these history. Um So, the starting point of any 111 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: actual history of Taiwan that's worth a single ship is 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: Taiwan's indigenous population. And it is incredibly important to understand 113 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: from the outset. The indigenous population of Taiwan is not Chinese. 114 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: They are not ethnically Chinese, they are not linguistically Chinese, 115 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: they are not culturally Chinese, they are not any of 116 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: these things. By literally any definition of the word Chinese, 117 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: you can imagine they are not Chinese. Um this, this population, 118 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: this indigenous population is Austronnesian. It's it's an Austronesian people 119 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: are population stretches basically from like it's it's an enormous 120 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: screw of people across specific stretches from like Madagascar all 121 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: the way to like Hawaii, and that that that those 122 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: are the people who who who who live on Taiwan 123 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: and have lived on Taiwan for six thousand years. And 124 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, if if you read like CCP accounts of 125 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: Taiwanese history, right, you'll see them they they won't talk 126 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: about the fact that there again there's been an indigenous 127 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: population that has lived in Taiwan for six thousand years. Um, 128 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: what you'll see references to you are like in like 129 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: the Suiti and like Sung dynasties, people like sent troops 130 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: to Taiwan and the season people will be like, oh yeah, no, 131 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: they they they they they governed Taiwan and they ruled it. 132 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: It was a part of China, and like ancient times, 133 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: like this is all bullshit. Like basically what would happen 134 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: is periodically, every like a few hundred years, some Chinese 135 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: leader would be like we should send some people to 136 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: that island and they went there and we're like this sucks, 137 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: and they all left. But you know, yeah, and and 138 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: and and you know, like okay, so like these guys, 139 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: they're like, okay, this think this thing sucks. They leave, 140 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: and the indigenous population continues going like you know, goes 141 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: back to dude, like their normal thing, right, Like this 142 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: is the the the actual history of who has controlled 143 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: Taiwan for almost this entire history is that it was 144 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: controlled by the stigenous population. But in four colonial powers 145 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: start getting more involved and the Dutch sees control of Taiwan. Well, okay, 146 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: so the Dutch taking most of Taiwan. There's a part 147 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: of Taiwan in the north that's ruled by the Spanish, 148 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: and they do like bunch of just like horrible, like 149 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: unspeakable crimes to the indigenous population before they ran out 150 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: by like basically like a fragment of the dying like 151 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: Chinese Ming dynasty. And so yeah, six two this guy 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: whose name okay, so she has like a name that 153 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: he's known by in the West that I genuinely have 154 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: no idea how to pronounce, because this the name that 155 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: he's known by in the West, I think is a 156 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: Dutch translation of his title and not like his name 157 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: his baffling I okay, Like I think the Mandarin version 158 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: of his title is something like Cushing. Uh. The Dutch 159 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: somehow turned that into what I'm going to interpret as 160 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: coaching GA. Like it's baffling, It doesn't make any sense. 161 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Their transliteration is is nonsense. But yeah, so there's this guy. 162 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: You'll you'll see you'll see his name written as like 163 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: coaching um, and he's described alternately as sort of like 164 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: you know. You'll see some inscriptions of him which will 165 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: be like he is a all your list ming general um, 166 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: and that's kind of true, like sort of. You will 167 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: also see descriptions of him that call him a pirate warlord, 168 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: which is like also true. And you will also see nationalists, 169 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: like Chinese nationalists celebrate him as like an anti colonial 170 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: hero and call him like running out the Dutchess like 171 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: the liberation of Taiwan and like that's not true, like 172 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: which this is not true, Like I've I've seen people 173 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: like from Taiwan like could do stuff with the indigenous population, 174 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: like I've I've seen them call I've seen them call 175 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: him by Taiwan's Christopher Columbus. So this is how this 176 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: is going. Um. Wait, so we're saying that changing from 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: one colonial power to another, it is not liberation, no, 178 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: it turns out and fascinating. Yeah, you can tell it's 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: not that not liberation because you know, like a lot 180 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: of people like actually like you know, do believe that, like, hey, 181 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: it's gonna be less bad for us under this guy 182 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: than it is going to be on for the Dutch. 183 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: It is kind of less bad. Like there are a 184 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: bunch of redigenous people who go who fight with show 185 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: coaching gun like you know, and he he helps they 186 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: helped him defeat the Dutch. But what what he does 187 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: instead of like you know, freeing the people there is 188 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: he maintains the Dutch colonial system while basically just seizing 189 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: Taiwan to run his court from. And you know, like 190 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: Dutch colonial rule. Okay, so like Dutch colonial rule is over, 191 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: but what if we're placed by is the rule of 192 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: an independent pirate warlord state. It sounds fun, I mean, 193 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: it kind of is, like I mean, there's this whole 194 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: so okay, So the kind of background of this is that, 195 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: like the US, the Ming dynasty is falling apart. The 196 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: Mean dynasty had ruled China since they ever threw the 197 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: Mongols basically, and but like they're they're imploding. There's a 198 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: bunch of revolutions going on there. They are in the 199 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: process of getting eventually getting knocked off by um the 200 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: Qing dynasty, who a group of people from Manchuria who 201 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: we will be getting to in a second. Yeah, this 202 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: guy's like technically in mean general, but he's sort of 203 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: not and he's he's doing this sort of pilot warlord stuff. 204 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: But then he like he sets up like his own 205 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: dynasty like very short lived see there. And this is 206 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: the first time that there's been like actual political control 207 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: of Taiwan by any kind of Chinese entity, right like 208 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: the like the weird dipshit armies that like China was 209 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: sending in like the Song dynasty, Like they don't they 210 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: don't actually like set up a government, right, Like they're 211 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: just kind of there forbidden they leave. This is the 212 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: first time like they actually conquered the island and rule 213 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: it as like a political enter. And even then it's 214 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: kind of a half as conquest, like there's a lot 215 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: of places they kind of just like they're just like, yeah, okay, 216 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: we're just not gonna bother with this. But yeah, and 217 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, again, like this is the first time this 218 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: has happened, and it's not like the Chinese state, right, 219 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: it's a pirate war Mark and his descendants get like 220 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: knocked off by the Chain dynasty in sixteen eighty three, 221 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: and this is the first time like a real Chinese 222 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: government has controlled Taiwan um because bye bye bye bye bye. 223 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: Six eighty three, the Chanine dynasty has finished taking overall 224 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: of China or all all of what used to be 225 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: like the main dynasty in China. And this is the 226 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: period that these nationals a point to and say like no, no, no, 227 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: really really hold on, hold on. Taiwan actually is part 228 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: of China because we conquered it in like six eighty three, 229 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: which you know, okay, yeah, yeah, this is this is 230 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: a part of Taiwan's China's ancient times. Yeah that this 231 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: place we conquered in sixteen eight three, which ignores also 232 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: again the previous five thousand, four hundred years where Taiwan 233 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: was rule by its indigenous people. It's it's baffling nationalists, 234 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: brame words stuff yep. That has worked historically for other countries, 235 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: notably this one and the one I'm from. But make 236 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: it right, yeah, well, and then you'll you'll get people 237 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: arguing this is like well, how like like how how 238 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: is this different from the U s. It's like, well, 239 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I am a leftist, and I am 240 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: capable of understanding that multiple things can be bad at 241 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: the same time, especially when they're bad in the same way. Like, wow, hey, 242 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: maybe these are all settler qualities. We should destroy them, Okay, 243 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: But we should actually talk about the Chin dynasty a bit, 244 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: because a lot of what Chinese nationalism draws from is 245 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: the sort of imperial expansion of the Chan chyneste. Even 246 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 1: though the Ching are the Ching are not like a 247 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: Han Chinese dynasty. Um, they're like ethnically they're from a 248 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: different ethnic group. But yeah, I mean it's said, it's 249 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: it's the like the the Ching dynasty is a Manchion 250 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: dynasty ruled by the people like the Manchies out of Mancharia. 251 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: But I I think like insofar as people think about 252 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: the Chin Dynasty, they tend to think about like the 253 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: Late Chain dynasty Like this is like, you know, like 254 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: the eight hundred Chang dynasty is a disaster, right, Like 255 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: they lose the Opium Wars, they can beat by Japan. 256 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: This is the whole sort of century humiliation thing has 257 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: a lot to do with like Ching imperial decline. But 258 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: you know that that's like the eighteen hundreds change, the 259 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds change, especially in the sixty seventeen hundreds change. 260 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: Is it incredibly dynamic and you know, incredibly militant and 261 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: expansionist empire. Um here, here's I'm gonna I'm gonna read 262 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: a passage from the book Taiwan's Imagine Geographies. Having annexed 263 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: taime On in sixteen eighty four, the Ching turned its 264 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: attention to Central Asia, pacifying quote quote unquote pacifying the Mongols, 265 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: and bringing eastern Turkistan and lass of the capital of 266 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: Tibet under Ching rule. The Ching further expanded its control 267 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: in south and southwest China, subjugating various non Chinese peoples. 268 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: Of this reason to Ching domination at its height in 269 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, Ching influences set it into Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Burman, Nepal, 270 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: all of which came under the suicerenity of the Empire. 271 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: By eighteen sixty, the Ching had achieved the incredible feat 272 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: of doubling the size of the empire's territory, bringing various 273 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: non Chinese frontier people under its rule. The impact of 274 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: changing expansionism was thus was thus tremendous, as the chain 275 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: not only redefined the territorial boundaries of China, but also 276 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: re fashioned China as a multi ethnic realm, as a 277 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: multi ethnic realm, shifting the traditional border between Chinese Hua 278 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: and Barbarian Ye. In doing so, the Ching created an 279 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: image of China that has vastly from that of the Ming. 280 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: And I think I think it's really important to understand 281 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: what kinds of empire this is, which is to say 282 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: that the Change dynasty is an incredibly brutal colonial power 283 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: even like by the standards of like that's like, you know, okay, 284 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: like all of all, like the all the the okay, 285 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: Chinese dynastic history is not pretty right, Like this is 286 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's an empire, right, it's an empire. It's 287 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: ruled by an emperor. It kind of sucks, like it's 288 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: not it's not good per se. But like, even by 289 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: the standards of like China, the Qing are incredibly militants, 290 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: an incredibly expansionist um. For example, like shing Chong, which 291 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: which is a province that the Ching conquered, so it 292 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: used to be inhabited by a Mongol speaking people until 293 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: the Ching just exterminated them all and settled the entire 294 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: land with with Han and weaker like a thin groups. 295 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: And you know, this history points to something that's important 296 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: to understand when we talk about China Taiwan in the 297 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: U S. Which is that what we're talking about is 298 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: three settler qualities. And I think people, you know, might 299 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: be like, wait, what do you mean China's settler colony? 300 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna read this passage from the book, uh, 301 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: Sovereignty Frontiers The Possibility, which is by Julia Evans, Anna Genevis, 302 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Alexander Riley, and Patrick Wolf. And and yes, that is 303 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: that Patrick Wolf, who was like was basically the godfather 304 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: of settler colonial studies and one of the most important 305 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: like academics a turn of like in terms of like 306 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: advancity annalysis of setterer colonialism, like the Palestinian conflict. But 307 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: here's here, here, here's what he has to say about China. 308 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: And this is kind of a long passage, but like, 309 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: I want to include an explanation of what settler colonialism 310 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: is because I've kind of just been tossing it around analytically. 311 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: The case of Palestine reveals that the relationship between the 312 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: external and internal dimensions of sovereignty is not a priori 313 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: but contingent. Settler colonization converts external into internal, rendering indigenous 314 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: sovereignties either non existent or domesticated. Annexation does the same thing, 315 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: only is illegal. The difference again is sovereignty to annex 316 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: is to practice settler colonialism in sovereign territory. Thus, the 317 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: frontier is aligned in time as well as in space. Spatially, 318 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: the frontier to limits unconquered native territory. Temporally, it marks 319 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: the conversion of outside into inside. It renders externality a 320 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: thing of the past in the global conquest of settler colonialism. Therefore, 321 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: the internal and external dimensions represent the state of play, 322 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: quote unquote. The ultimate prize is state formation with internationally 323 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: recognized territorial sovereignty. Once the settler takeover as complete, the 324 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: native realm becomes a thing of the past, superseded and detoxified, 325 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: reduced to persisting in the settler's terms. Since in the 326 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: case of Palestine, this process remains incomplete, the situation can 327 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: still go either or potentially any way. At the international level, 328 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: this uncertainty is reflected in the ambivalent status of Palestinian sovereignty, 329 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: which remains simultaneously both acknowledged and questioned locally, The stags 330 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: involved in the resolution of such international uncertainties could not 331 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: be higher. Tibet represents a case in point. Despite significant 332 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: informal deference to Tibet's national separateness, It's incorporation into the 333 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: People's Republic of China is not seriously questioned. At the 334 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: diplomatic level, Tibetan representation at the United Nations remains unimaginable. 335 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: Yet even Tibetans might count their blessings when they compare 336 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: their situation to that of Weakers, who, like them, are 337 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: being officially colonized by Hans settlers in the so called 338 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: autonomous region called shing Jong, a Chinese appellation that could 339 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: have been scripted in sixteenth century Europe. It means new land, 340 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: being so much more firmly domesticated within the Chinese state. However, 341 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: weaker sovereignty remains from vote from global concern now. Now obviously, okay, 342 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: this is written before like shing Jong became like a 343 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: global news story. And also I I I question wolves 344 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: translation of the word a little bit, like I think, 345 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: I think new Frontier is probably a slightly better translation, 346 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, like you can see what's it are here, right, 347 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: Like wolves argument is that like yeah, like like China 348 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: is running to settler qualities, like the internal status of 349 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: which is like even more internationally fucked than like most 350 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: other settler colonies, which is incredibly grim. Like yeah, I 351 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: think we don't. I don't know why we were so 352 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: we've been so slow to see selling colonialism and these 353 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: contiguous empires like here. Yeah, I mean I think part 354 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: of what's happening here, like you know, okay, Like I 355 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: think there's sort of a different dynamic with looking at 356 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: this with Russia, but I think with China it's like 357 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: people are just like it's really really hard to get 358 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: people to understand that colonialism and imperialism are things that 359 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: like not that like non white people can do, yes, 360 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: and especially especially like this, you know. And I think 361 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: this goes back to the sort of like Chan dynasy discussion, right, 362 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: which is that like, yeah, you know, the like the 363 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: way that people on the left understand the Ching dynasty 364 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: is through the sort of nationalist lens looking at like 365 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: the AG hundreds, and so they missed the whole part 366 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: where they're doing all the settler colony stuff. But like 367 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: what happens to them basically is that like you know, 368 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: it's like they're there. It's kind of like the Ottomans, right, 369 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: We're like their empire suddenly runs into like newer, better, 370 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: more violence and more efficient empires. But like it doesn't 371 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: mean that like they worked also empires. Like it's yeah, 372 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and then when people do work that out sometimes, like 373 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: people and when we talk about like settler clonism in 374 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: the US, sometimes like when folks have forced to retreat 375 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: from the first position and that like that the US 376 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: is not a settler quality, they'll then fall back on, well, 377 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: they're indigenous empires beforehand, as if that somehow justifies Yeah, 378 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: it's like it does not right, and like you know, 379 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: like and I think it's the thing that tobet to 380 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, the pre existing Tibetan government was 381 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: not good, like defends like that government. It sucks. I 382 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: would also point out that the whole we're going to 383 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: stop the slave trade thing is one of the things 384 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: explicitly in in the in the Tree that was side 385 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: of the Conference of Berlin. That was the thing that 386 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: they claimed that that like that that was the thing 387 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: that the European powers claimed they were doing when they 388 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: invaded Africa, so like when they split Africa, but between 389 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: the Clune of Powers, so like you know, okay, I 390 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: mean also it's you know this this is getting slightly 391 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: off topic, but it's also worth noting that like there 392 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: wasn't there was actually a communist movement like in Tibet 393 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: that wasn't the CCP, and the CCP killed them all. 394 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: So that's great and fun. That's never happened before with 395 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: titanitarian communist pass Yeah, it's it's going to happen again. 396 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: The sort of I think the stakes of what's happening here, 397 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: I think become more clear when you understand that, like 398 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: you like the US and trying to to like two 399 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: different extents, right, like I don't know, like China has 400 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: parts there, like there are parts of China where it's 401 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: like very hard, like it's not a settler state. It's 402 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: just like their states, but there are part of definitely 403 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: are a settlers date. And there's the U S which 404 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: is like entirely a settler state. And then Taiwan is 405 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: also to a settler state, although it's like post independence 406 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: Taiwan is at least violence of them, which is like 407 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: not like a, I don't know, you're not winning much 408 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: of a price by being less violent than China in 409 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: the US, but like true god between those two yeah, 410 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: but you know, but but but I think that this 411 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: brings us back to like the Chin the Ching coccupation 412 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: of Taiwan, which is that the Ching occupation of Taiwan 413 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: is China's first like first new settler colony. The Ching 414 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: administrators they divide indigenous population into quote cooked and raw savages. 415 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: Um that those are their words. That literally that's what 416 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: they call them. Like it is why because they're really racist, 417 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: Like I mean this, this is like this, this is 418 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: like a very old thing and sort of like sort 419 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: of Chinese imperial course, right, It's like you have the 420 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: difference between like barbarians and like Chinese people and like 421 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: savages and non savages like this this is like this 422 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: is how these people think, right, and it's not good. 423 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Like I don' don't know like how many more ways 424 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: I can like try to explain to people who are 425 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: like who have been like like people have been like 426 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: telling them Chinese nationalists stuff for so long that it's 427 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: like this this also was not good, Like guys and 428 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: again it's something the US has done the UK. There's 429 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: classic imperialism, right. We took absolute tribes in the US, 430 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: the racist in the British Empire. Yeah, I'm going to 431 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: read a passage from Taiwan's imagine geography. Indeed, as ching 432 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: writers began to construct the Taiwan indigenous as two distinct groups. 433 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: Negative traits that have been formally associated with quote the 434 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: Taiwan savages as a whole began to be mapped on 435 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: the wild or raw savages. We're Earlier text claimed, for example, 436 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: that the savages quote by nature like to kill or 437 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: quote we're were quote stubborn and stupid. Now writers attributed 438 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: these characteristics to the raw savages alone. Head Hunting, a 439 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: notorious practice that the earlier the earliest sources had associated 440 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: with the natives of Taiwan and other Pacific islands, also 441 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: became also came to be seen as a raw savage practice. 442 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: By the early eighteenth century travel writing, travel writers increasingly 443 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: emphasized the violent and murderous behavior of the raw savages. 444 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: The expansion of the Han Chinese population at this time 445 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: caused an exhalation of conflict between Chinese settlers and the 446 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: indigenous over land and other resources. Hostile indigitees were thus 447 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: becoming a real threat to the safety of Han Chinese settlers. 448 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: Although some writers blamed inter ethnic conflict on troublemaking Han 449 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: Chinese settlers, many Ching literati attributed the belligerents of the 450 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: raw savages to the inherent bloodthirsty nature. So, yeah, it's 451 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: it's real. It's real. It's real, classic empire ship like 452 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: text bookshit. Yeah, and you know, and you can see 453 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: that there's this whole nationalist myth that like you'll read 454 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: if you read modern people like talking about this, or 455 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: they'll be like, oh, the indigenous population of Chinese government 456 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: got along so great. It is completely bullshit. This is 457 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: an incredibly racist settler state, and it stays an incredibly 458 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: racist setaler state when when the Japanese take over Taiwan 459 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: and the Japanese occupation is even worse than the Chin 460 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: occupation of indigenous people in a lot of ways to 461 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: real ship show there's a huge massacre that they do 462 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: in the thirties. Um, yeah, and and okay, we just 463 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: also mentioned at this point, so I've been focusing a 464 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: lot on the the indigenous population because almost everyone who 465 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: tells the story from all sides, doesn't talk about them ever, 466 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: because it's it's incredibly inconvenient to like everyone's narrative that 467 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: there were people here for literally six thousand years, um. 468 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: But you know, whow Basically since the Dutch showed up 469 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: in the in the mid sixteen hundreds, UM, there have 470 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: been like increasing numbers of Chinese settlers, and as as 471 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: the Chin occupation sort of wears on, the number Chinese 472 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: settlers increases and increases increases, and it gets to the 473 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: point where, you know, kind of close to like what 474 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: we have today, where like the the indigenous population of 475 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: Taiwan is like two percent of the population, and it's 476 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: which is which is pretty close to what the indigenous 477 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: population presenting the population of the US is for example. Yeah, 478 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: and sorry, I'm not going to it's okay, Yeah, I'm 479 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: going to talk about Elizabeth Warren. But god, god, you know, 480 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: actually fucking I will talk about Elizabeth Warren in the 481 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: middle of this, because yeah, because her her whole thing 482 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: of like like pretending to be indigenous was also fun 483 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: because like she has a cookbook, and the cookbook yeah, yeah, 484 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: that claims both her and her husband or indigenous and 485 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: then in that he's like maybe the most incomprehensible lee 486 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: awful like example of Chinese cooking every scene in my life, 487 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: which apparently stole from like another cookbook. Really like just 488 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: cascading levels of racism all the way down. It's God, 489 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: it's fine, it's all fine. All the settler colonies are bad. 490 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: Their politics are all also always bad because again, like 491 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: being a settler colony inherently makes your politics awful because yeah, 492 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: and representing yourself an indigenous person to gain personal advantage 493 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: in a settler colony when you are not one is 494 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: ongoing active colonialism. Yeah, genuinely terrific stuff Like, yeah, I 495 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: don't do it. So having said that, so okay, we 496 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: have to talk about the Han population. There's like different 497 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: like subgroups of the Han population who are have different ethnicities, 498 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: to speak different rates, like speak different languages because Han 499 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: is like a very large sort of category, and like 500 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: inside of Han Chinese there's like people who are Hawka. 501 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: There's there's a whole bunch of different groups. Um, And 502 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: I guess the one thing that's worth mentioning is that 503 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the like you'll hear people talk about 504 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: Taiwanese as like its own language, and like that's like 505 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: there there are a bunch of people who were on 506 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: but who don't speak Mandarin, and so like a lot 507 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: of people in Taiwan speak Taiwanese, which is sort of 508 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: like Hakka h ish leg. Well, okay, what's what what's 509 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: what's the most technically accurate with Vegas. It is a 510 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: language that has developed on Taiwan, like in Taiwan by 511 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: people who speak Kaka, and it's basically pretty close to that. Yeah, um, 512 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: And we're not gonna get into super gradular detail about 513 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: these ways of immigration, um, but basically, like one of 514 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: the things that happens is that among these sort of 515 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: hansellos there becomes this sort of like Taiwanese identity of 516 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: like them being Taiwanese, like specifically as a thing. And 517 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: when when the Japanese lose World War Two, the Nationalist 518 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: Party or the CAMT just like occupies Taiwan. But this 519 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: is a real problem because again, most of the people 520 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: don't want to be ruled by the CAMT because the 521 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: CAMT like absolutely suck. Um. If you want me to 522 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: hear me, like go deeper into them, go listen to 523 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: My Bastard's episode the World Anti Communist League. Uh. The 524 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: short version is that the KMT is a genocidal like 525 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: anti communists squad party run by an organized crime outfit 526 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: that's led by Shankai Check and you know like they 527 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: suck like really like absolutely horrible people. Um. And as 528 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: the camp starts to lose, a civil word of maw 529 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: like born more CAMT supporters not some people just like 530 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: running from the war start fleeing in Taiwan, and this 531 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: develops a mass like you get these massive tension between 532 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: the people who had already been there and the KMT 533 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: and they're sort of new supporters and that their new 534 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: sort of like settler immigrant population, and this boils over 535 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: into what's called the February incident or the two eight incident. Um. 536 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: Basically what happens so a CAMT cop like attacks a 537 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: woman who was like selling cigarettes on the street illegally 538 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: because the KMT, like I really also kept like they're 539 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: so unbelievably corrupt and so like that they have all 540 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: these like monopolies where it's like okay, like that there's 541 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: a guy who has like the opium monopoly or like 542 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: a guy who has like the cigarette monopoly, and unless 543 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: you're running through that monopoly you can't sell like cigarettes. Yeah, 544 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: and so in something that I think will be familiar 545 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: to people who like like have followed the number of 546 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: people in the US who have been killed for uh. Yeah, 547 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: so the cops start like beating this woman over the 548 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: head with it with his pistol, and everyone around them 549 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,239 Speaker 1: gets incredibly piste off. And there's these giant protests, um, 550 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: and the camp to your response to the protests by 551 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: shooting into the crowd. And yeah, I mean, so there's 552 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: another side of this I should mention like briefly, which 553 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: is that, like part of what's happening here is like 554 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: there's a there's a kind of ugly like basically race 555 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: riot that starts happening at the beginning of this where 556 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: like people like the sort of like Contowonese population like 557 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: starts just like attacking like any random like any random 558 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: people from like the campt generation, just like they found 559 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: on the street, that start attacking and killing and like 560 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: that sucks. Um. It is also unbelievably less violent than 561 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: what happens next, which is at the KMT Like, well, okay, 562 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: so so there there there's sort of this race right thing, 563 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: and then there's there's like there's a full scale revolution 564 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: and the Taiwanese population like seizes control of base of 565 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: like almost the entire island, like the entirety of the 566 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: main island, and they start demanding like democratic rights and 567 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: stuff like you know, a free press and free assembly 568 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: and the protection of the digitus population. Although I should 569 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: also mention that like like nobody really inti one like 570 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: treating digits population. Well, like it was bad enough, Like 571 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: my seven year old mom was like, oh my god, 572 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: why is everyone treating these people so badly? Like it's 573 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: but you know, okay, So they do this thing, they 574 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: have this revolution and then the KMT like just sends 575 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: the army to the island and they kill something like 576 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: twenty people in a week. Um like they are like 577 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: they're they're cutting people's face like later, like cutting parts 578 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: of people's faces off with like knives, Like it is 579 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: unbelievably brutal. And this begins thirty eight years of martial law. Um. 580 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: The subsequent CAMPTI police state tortures like tens of thousands 581 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: of people in rules Taiwan with like an with an 582 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: iron fist until like the late eighties, and this is 583 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: where things get really messy, right because up until nineteen two, 584 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: like nobody in China like and and and this included 585 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: both the KMT and the CCP until actually forty two, 586 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: neither of them actually claimed that Taiwan was part of China. 587 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: But then in nWo both of them start claiming that 588 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: that one is part of China. Yeah, and so when 589 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: when when the KMT flees to Taiwan, both the CCP 590 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: and the CAMT both claimed to be a legitimate government 591 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: of China and be to be the legitimate government of Taiwan. 592 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: And it's a disaster, Like the cam T is nuts, 593 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: Like my they again, like they made my like seven 594 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: year old moms sing songs about how they they were 595 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: one day they were going to reclaim them other land. 596 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: Like these people suck some of them still in myanma 597 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 1: or maybe perhaps not now, but like I've heard from 598 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: them from friends who are older who were there, that 599 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: there are a bunch of CAMT like living in parts 600 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: of me and Mari and tourists would go pay to 601 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: visit them. Yeah, like that's it's the thing. Like yeah, 602 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: they're like they most of the people flee that flee 603 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: to Taiwan. But like they break in a number of 604 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: different directions, and there's like a bunch of weird rump 605 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: states they set up, they get knocked off. Eventually, it's 606 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: a it's a whole mess. But in Taiwan, like they 607 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: have this problem, which is that, like, okay, so there's 608 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: like water in between China and Taiwan, and if you 609 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: want to get troops over it, you have to have 610 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: those troops across the water. And this is a real 611 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: problem for like an invasion. So what ends up happening 612 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: is a series so like okay, so you have the 613 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: cam T in the CCP like staring each other down 614 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: across these islands, and the product of this is what's 615 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: called the Three Taiwan Straits crises. So basically in the 616 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: CCP starts sell shelling, Taiwan starts shelling like time one, 617 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: and then they do it again at fifty eight in 618 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: like the CAMT shelves them back, and you know, and 619 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: there's a couple of points where it looks like they're 620 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: going to invade, but then the US like move supplies 621 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: to the KMT to like keep the CCP from invading, 622 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: and you know the result of this is just like 623 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: I think incredibly psychologically revealing move after the crisis, which 624 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: crisis ends with the KMT and the CCP agreeing to 625 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: shell each other on opposite days because and I cannot 626 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: emphasize this enough, this entire conflict is profoundly bullshit and 627 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: was foisted upon Taiwan by a bunch of pedley, squabbling 628 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: Chinese nationalists. How big is that distance we're talking about, 629 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: Like they're sending shells over there in the fifties, so 630 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: it's probably not vast. Well, part of what's happening is 631 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: so it's it's a hundred miles, hundred ten miles, but 632 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: what's happening here is like there there they basically like 633 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: have set up on outposts in different islands in between, 634 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: like the Big Island and uh the shore, so that 635 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: they they're like they're on these islands shelling each other, 636 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: like they drafted my grandpa and sent him to one 637 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: of these places and that's and then he came back 638 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: and was like, funk this, we're out, and so like 639 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: that that's where my family is in the US because 640 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: he was like, We're not doing this ship again. This sucks. Yeah, 641 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: It's like I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be 642 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: cannon fodder for these like weird nationalists psychos. So okay, 643 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: so what the sort of result of this, though, is 644 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: that the KMT gets the backing of the US, and 645 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: the KMT becomes in Taiwan is the like the legitimately 646 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: internationally recognized government, um, like of all of China from 647 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War until like the seventies. 648 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, how's the u n ceat I 649 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: actually we get We'll get into that and you know what, 650 00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: we we do it here. So one of the things 651 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: happens here is that okay, so, like the US really 652 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: really does not want the CCP to have the u 653 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: n C. And one of the things they try to 654 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,959 Speaker 1: do is that they offer neighbors India like the seat 655 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: on like what's it called, am I blanking on the 656 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: name of the thing? National security? Yeah? Yeah, you Security Council. 657 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: They offer India Sea the Security Council, and neighbor is like, no, 658 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take this. I'm not gonna take this. 659 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: This this is China seat on the Council, Like, I'm 660 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: not gonna take this. And then Mao repays him by 661 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: invading India three in ways. Um, this is not in 662 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: my script, I am I am off Yeah, I am 663 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: off script? Oh not two? Sorry yeah yeah, So like 664 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: this a this, this goes great for neighbor mao, just 665 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,720 Speaker 1: like invades and the Indians lose the war very badly. 666 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: Don't understand why eventually China gets recognized. You have to 667 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: talk about it about like what was going on inside 668 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: of the PRC, inside of the people is probably in China. 669 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: So the CCP fights a war with the Soviets in 670 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, which in this war gets called the 671 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: Sino Soviet Border Conflicts. But like this is like pretty 672 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: much a real war, Like there are like Chinese and 673 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: Soviet division shelling each other, like a lot of people die. 674 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: Um like I I don't know if I've told the 675 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: story on this podcast before. My my, my favorite part 676 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: of this whole thing is that the Soviets start like wargaming, 677 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: can can they defeat China and nuclear war? And they 678 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: figure out that they can't because the Chinese population is 679 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: so just is so dispersed that even even if they 680 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: knew all of China, they can't kill everyone. They'll and 681 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: they'll lose the war in human wave attacks. So the 682 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: Soviets started developing developing the strategy of like having like 683 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: a line of nuclear land mines across the Soviet Chinese 684 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: borders so that the human wave attacks can't get through, 685 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: because they like this is this called the is nuts, 686 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: Like both China and the USS are are trying to 687 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: get the US to ally with him to like do 688 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: do do a preemptive nuclear strike on on the other side, 689 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: Like it's crazy and and this like completes the Sino 690 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: Soviet split, and the US like really really wants to 691 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: make sure that the Sino Soviets but sticks, and so 692 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: the US starts negotiating with China basically to bring China 693 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: to the well, Okay, there's two ways of looking at it. 694 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: One is that they just want to separate, like, you know, 695 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: the Chinese from the Soviets. The other way of looking 696 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: at it is that they want to like bring China 697 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: fully over to the American side of the Cold War. 698 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: And I think the latter approach actually works, right um 699 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: so uh. In nine, the US recognizes the CCP as 700 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: the legitimate government of China. Uh. Several months later, China 701 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: invades Vietnam in defense of the Khmer Rouge, which the 702 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: US was also backing. So yeah, and and this is 703 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: where we get into some more diplomatic bullshit. Uh okay. 704 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: So China maintain something called the one China a principle. 705 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 1: The one China principle holds that the CCP is the 706 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: only government of China and then it rules Taiwan. The 707 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: US has something called the One China Policy, and the 708 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: One China Policy is it does not take a stance 709 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: either way on who the government of Taiwan is. What 710 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: it does is it acknowledges that China claims that it 711 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: rules Taiwan. And you will see nationalists lie about this constantly. 712 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: They will say things like the US recognizes Taiwan as 713 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: part of China under the One Child Policy. Uh blah 714 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: blah blah. Action is a violation of the One China Policy. 715 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: And that's not true, right. What actually happened is the US, 716 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: the US technical term for this is called strategic ambiguity. 717 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 1: And you know, so they have this thing like, they 718 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: don't they don't formally recognize either side as legitimate government 719 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: of Taiwan. They recognize that this is what China says 720 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: about Taiwan. They don't actually recognize, but they have no 721 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: formal position on whether this is the actually rules Taiwan. 722 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: What they have is a recognition that that China leaves this. 723 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: And again this is all diplomatic bullshit. It's partial. Why 724 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: I hate like talking about this because like, again the 725 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: lives of literally tens of billions of people are being 726 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: governed by like diplomats saying doing like that kind of 727 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,879 Speaker 1: ship because it's sucks. Yeah. So that's that's that's that's 728 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: the one Child policy thing, which is not Jesus the 729 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 1: one China policy, which is not the same thing as 730 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: the One China principle. Um. Yeah, and and so like 731 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: all the while while this is going on, the CCP 732 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: and the KMT yere in this massive racisty you can 733 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: kill the most communists like that. The CCP kills about 734 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: a million commination the Cultural Revolution and then invades Vietnam 735 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: to kill even more communists. Uh. The KMT like not 736 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: not to be outdone by by by by by their 737 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: former comrades across the border. The KMT is training desk 738 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: squalls in Honduras and like helping the Guatemalan government do 739 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: the Guatemalan genocide. It's it's really grim stuff. And you 740 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: know the product of this idea Loge. The product of 741 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: this whole thing is the audio complete audiological collapse of 742 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party as like a party that does communism, 743 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: and then the political military collapse with the KMT so 744 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: the but by I mean it's kind of it sort 745 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: of has already stopped at the eighties, but by the 746 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: nineties nineties, the CCP substantively has stopped being a communist 747 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: party by the sense of the word, like they're just capitalists, 748 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: and they're not they're you know, they're out there making money. 749 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: And by by by the late two thousands, even like 750 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, there had been a faction of what's culture 751 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: of the Chinese New Left, but had thought that like 752 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: they could you know, they could, they could you know, 753 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: this is still a communist party and we can still 754 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: change China from the inside. And those guys are like 755 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: liquidated completely, like they're just gone, um and you know, 756 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: and so, but you know, by by like now right, 757 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: like it's just it's just it's just capitalists. And meanwhile 758 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: in Taiwan in the eighties and nineties, there's there's increasing 759 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: resistance the camts like one party like dest squad, like 760 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: one party state, and their whole dest squad like reclaimed 761 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: them motherland politics. Everyone like starts to hate them. And 762 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: this is where things get really weird because on the 763 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: one hand, the camp T is incredibly anti communist, but 764 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: on the other hands, uh, they're the political faction that 765 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: wants the tie type want to China, and this means 766 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: that like, you know, as they're sort of like ruthlessly 767 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: suppressing communists and leftists, they're also like vehemently independence and 768 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: so like they kill a bunch of anti independence organizers, um, 769 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: which is like not not not not how anyone like 770 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: talks about this conflict because it's too weird. So there's 771 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: all the sort of weird political things going on in 772 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: n The KMT ends the martial law that they had 773 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: been in force since the February incidents, and the KMT 774 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: like disarms, right, they disarm. They're not as in like, Okay, 775 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: the KMT used to be a party that would like 776 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: assassinate people for writing an author right, like assassinate Americans 777 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: on American solo for writing on authorized biography biographies of 778 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: like Schenkai check. And they kind of stopped being that, 779 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: Like they disarm. They're not really in the drug trade anymore. Caveats. 780 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: Don't quote me on that, but like there they're not 781 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: the party they were in the eighties, right, That's that's 782 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: what the important thing, like that they lose to one 783 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: party dictatorship, and you get the sort of transition to 784 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: democracy that ends in the first free presidential elections in 785 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: Taiwani's history. In and this, like the right right before this, 786 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: you get the third Taiwan Straits Crisis, where the President 787 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: of Taiwan like goes to the US and China react 788 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: to this by having an enormous temper tantrum and like 789 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: starts doing military exercises, like they start like simulating an 790 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: invasion of Taipe one. They start like shooting rockets like 791 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: at the coast, like jet the the leve these rockets 792 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,919 Speaker 1: on the land like just off the coast, and it's edgy. Yeah. 793 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: And event this ends when the US moves like two 794 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: carrier groups into into the Pacific and the crisis ends. 795 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: But like, okay, there's a feelings I would say here. 796 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: One is that like, okay, so on the one hand, 797 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: this is the CCP having a temper tensium, right on 798 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: the other hand, like it really and this is the 799 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: thing that I think most Americans have never experienced, right, 800 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: because the US is not a country that like gets attacked, right, 801 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: having another country firing missiles at you fucking sucks psychologically, 802 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 1: it is awful. Like we saw how insane the U 803 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: S went, like the like the first time it had 804 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: actually been attacked since like World War Two, when at 805 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: eleven happened, Like you know, you saw just absolutely batshitt 806 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: the u S goes, right, Like, Okay, if you are 807 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: a person in Taiwan, right, which like a lot of 808 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: my family is, and you are constantly having another country 809 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: shooting rockets at you, like, it sucks like and and 810 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: I want people to like like sort of like think 811 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: about that for a second, because like I think a 812 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: lot of what how, how this crisis and how this 813 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: whole thing has talked about on the left is as 814 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: a sort of like abstract thing that's like you know, 815 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it's instead of ab principles, right, and not 816 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: stuff that's happening to real people who are like watching 817 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: missiles fucking fall into the ocean and you know, like 818 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: and what we're watching another country like preparing to kill 819 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: them and this sucks. Um. One of the other things 820 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: that were not noting here is that like, part of 821 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: what's going on in terms of the hardening of China 822 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: Taiwan relations is gentlemen square happened, um. And the reason 823 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,879 Speaker 1: that this matters is that so one of the things 824 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: that like stabilizes I guess relations between Taiwan and China 825 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 1: in part is the fact that they're both incredibly economic 826 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: closely economically connected to the US UM. And this is 827 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: because all of the all China, Taiwan and UH and 828 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: China are all capitalist countries and so they're ruling classes 829 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,400 Speaker 1: are all completely independence like people. People talk a lot 830 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: about Pelosi like investing in a bunch of like chip 831 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: manufacturing companies in Taiwan, and that's true, but she also 832 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: has a bunch of investments in China, because again, capitalists, 833 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: single ruling class, they all they're they all all of 834 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: your logistics lines run through each other. Blah blah blah 835 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 1: blah blah. I will insert and note here that is 836 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,919 Speaker 1: not in the script that anytime you someone talk about 837 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: like the U s decoupling with their economy from China, 838 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: they're they're full of ship. Do not like everything they're saying. 839 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: Everything they're about to say is a lie, it does 840 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: not happen. It has not happened, it will not happen, 841 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: like they're lying. Um yeah, this is important. Um even 842 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: the height of Trump's bullshit. Yeah yeah, Like like there 843 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: was kind of an attempt when it didn't work because 844 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: like you know, you can, okay, like there there are 845 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: some things you can offer to Mexico, right, but like 846 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: most like China, China has a unique combination of a 847 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 1: like a really good energy grid for the most part 848 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: of those I mean, okay, there have been times where 849 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: has gotten over tax but Liken compared to most other 850 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: development countries that has a really good energy grid. It 851 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: has a population in which actually doing union organizing is illegal, 852 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 1: and it has a population that you know, like gets 853 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: forced to work incredibly long hours, right, And the combination 854 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,800 Speaker 1: of those three things makes it makes it, you know, 855 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: a place where if you're an American capitalist, if you're 856 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: a Taiwanese capitalist. And that's actually part of this too, 857 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: is that like part part of the reason there's so 858 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: much like hatred for Taiwan instid of Tchina among people 859 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 1: who you wouldn't expect it to be is that, like 860 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of people in China whose 861 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: only experience of Taiwan is working for like fucking Fox 862 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: Cohn and like working just in hell conditions for a 863 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: like for a Taiwanese capitalist, and you know, and that 864 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: that's very easy to transformant a national sentiment and it sucks. 865 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, but you know, like okay, so 866 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: like there're the U s has an incentive just to 867 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: stabilize US Chinese relations in part because it's economically like 868 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: tied to both of these countries. But when something goes 869 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: really wrong in US China relations, like for example, after 870 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: Tianna Man where you know, and I think it's also 871 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: worth noting like from from the period like basically from 872 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,320 Speaker 1: when China invades Vietnam and even before that from but 873 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,320 Speaker 1: from when China invades Vietnam in up until Tienamen, the 874 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: US China relations are really good. Like the the US 875 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: the scene as like an ally against the evil at 876 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: Soviet evil Empire like all this, and you know, but 877 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: gentlemen makes things go really badly because like the the 878 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: only thing in American ally can possibly do that will 879 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: sour the American press on them is to shoot a 880 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: bunch of students in front of the American press corps 881 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: like that. That's literally the only thing you could possibly do, 882 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 1: Like you can, you can do actual genocides and the 883 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: US press corps won't care. But if you shoot a 884 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: bunch of students right in front of you, they will 885 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: get very mad. And you know, okay, times we've we've 886 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: avoided doing that in minima. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, 887 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,879 Speaker 1: it's it's it's grim, lots lots of lots of yeah. 888 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: But you know the consequence of this is like, yeah, 889 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: when something goes really wrong in US trying to relations 890 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,360 Speaker 1: you get China starts doing sabler rattling at Taiwan, and 891 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 1: the effects of this on Taiwan ease politics and also 892 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: just sort of what's been happening inside of Taiwan is 893 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: really weird. So the CAMT, who have been again like 894 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: the militantly anti comunist party for half essentially for half 895 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,879 Speaker 1: a century, are suddenly the fashion that once closer ties 896 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: the CCP. And the product of this is that the 897 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: KMT and the smaller like hardcore pro Utification Party has 898 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: become known as the Pan Blues. And the Pan Blues 899 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 1: are the people who like want closer relationship with China 900 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: and don't want closer relations with like the West. It's 901 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: like the U S et, etcetera. UM. And their opposition 902 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 1: group is this reposition progressive opposition groups, which are just 903 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: composed of the groups that opposed the Camptis military dictatorship. 904 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 1: And these groups form well, okay, they form a couple 905 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: of parties. The big party the first party they form, 906 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,320 Speaker 1: which is the biggest one by far, is called the 907 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 1: Democratic Progressive Party or the d p P, and the 908 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: dppnis allies which include some leftist parties I think, like 909 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,799 Speaker 1: the green parties in this coalition. Uh, there's also these 910 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: like smaller like radical pro independence parties. UM. They become 911 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 1: known as the Pan Greens. And this is like to 912 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: this day, this is like the main dividing line in 913 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: Taiwanese politics. You have the conservative Pan Blues you favor 914 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: closer relations with China, and the Pan Green progressives you 915 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: favor like closer relations with democracies. And also I think importantly, 916 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: the the Pan Greens had this kind of like are 917 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: the people who are in favor of like there being 918 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: a distinct Taiwanese national identity, and the Pan Blues are 919 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 1: kind of more suspect of that because again like you know, 920 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 1: their basis the KMT right, they want closer ties with China, 921 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 1: and closer ties with China means not having like a 922 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: distinct Twani's identity that's separate from China. And Okay, I'm 923 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,840 Speaker 1: enormously oversimplifying this, and people who are experts in this 924 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 1: will like this part of it will be like it's 925 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: more complicated in that, and it is this is this 926 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,839 Speaker 1: is the simplest explanation I could give you that people 927 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: will understand. Like I was, like, I was debating whether 928 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: I even wanted to talk about like the pan blue 929 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:44,200 Speaker 1: like closer ties with China versus paying green like closer 930 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: ties of the West thing at all, because it's confusing 931 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: and people probably won't remember it. But yeah, I mean, 932 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, if you want to understand Tiwani politics at all, 933 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,360 Speaker 1: like this is the line you have to take. No, 934 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: I think it's important to at least throw out the 935 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: people are gonna hear if they're going to engage in 936 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: any discussion beyond like what has his tweeting And I'm 937 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna also like I'm gonna like lay my 938 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,320 Speaker 1: cards on the table so people don't understand my political 939 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: position on this um, and my political position is one 940 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,319 Speaker 1: that pisces off literally everyone, which is that like, I'm 941 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: not like a DPP supporter, Like I'm not one of 942 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 1: the sort of like progressive like groups. I'm not in 943 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: this sort of like I'm not really kind of like 944 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: in this sort of like I wanted dependance camp. I'm 945 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: not really like a DVP person. I don't know, like, 946 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,680 Speaker 1: but I'm also not a KMT person, like because the 947 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 1: KMT are capitalist reactionaries. Um, but I also like, okay, 948 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: like I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna do my critique of 949 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: the DPP and then I'm gonna sort of walk it 950 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 1: back a little bit. I think that Taiwanese progressives in 951 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: general are waged you close to the American security state 952 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: for me to want anything to do with them. And 953 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,759 Speaker 1: the ones who aren't, like, okay, the Taiwanese left, like 954 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, get your ship together. Taiwan's most famous anarchist 955 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 1: is literally a government minister. Like this, This is how 956 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: funned the Taiwan's left is, like, uh, like like like 957 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: these people, God, I'm enormously frustrated by like people couldn't 958 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 1: develop like a left. The puple couldn't develop a natural 959 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: class analysis. You beat them over the head with a 960 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 1: copy of capital Um. And okay, like I think, like 961 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 1: Taiwanese progressives will point out, and I think this is fair. 962 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: That is very easy to criticize, like allying with the 963 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,240 Speaker 1: U S when it's not your ass in the firing 964 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 1: line of Chinese rockets, which is true. It is much 965 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: easier to criticize the US when the when the rifles 966 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,359 Speaker 1: being pointed in your face are American rifles, then when 967 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,360 Speaker 1: it's you know, Chinese soldiers pointing Chinese rifles. And this 968 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,320 Speaker 1: is a big part of what Chiwanese politics are so 969 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,400 Speaker 1: fucked um. Things get reduced at this sort of like 970 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 1: democracy versus authoritarian US versus China, like Taiwanese identity versus 971 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,960 Speaker 1: Chinese identity to less extent like binary. But it's like, okay, 972 00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,879 Speaker 1: like my family is Taiwanese. But like I was born here, 973 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: I grew up here, and you know, I know, I 974 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,840 Speaker 1: know what American democracy looks like. It's the army hiring 975 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 1: Eric Prince to slaughter rocket civilians and bagdad. And you know, 976 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,040 Speaker 1: I also know what you know. I have a bunch 977 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,560 Speaker 1: of family in China too. I know what Chinese authoritarianism 978 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,360 Speaker 1: looks like. It's the CCP hiring Eric princibility trading basis 979 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,000 Speaker 1: for mass and tournament camp guards John like you know, okay, 980 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,839 Speaker 1: And the only actual like political solution that will ever 981 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,680 Speaker 1: get anywhere is to fight both of them, a position 982 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: that is extremely unpopular literally everywhere. And like, you know, 983 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: I I think they're like the progressives have a good 984 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: argument that that you know, this isn't this isn't a line. 985 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: They have the luxury of taking right because they they 986 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,120 Speaker 1: they have they have an immediate enemy, and they're going 987 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,320 Speaker 1: to do whatever they have to not get invaded. And 988 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 1: that means allying with people who like I want to 989 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,880 Speaker 1: overthrow and see liquidated as a class. And like I 990 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,239 Speaker 1: I understand why they think that I also am not them. 991 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: So yeah, this is this is this is me laying 992 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: my cards on the table. And I think also like 993 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,760 Speaker 1: this goes back to the whole sort of like settler 994 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,120 Speaker 1: state question, right, which is the sort of unresolved political 995 00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,960 Speaker 1: question in the U s, Taiwan and China, Like no 996 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: actual major political force has like committed itself to destroying 997 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: the settler state and returning indigenous sovereignty. Uh like two 998 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 1: indigenous people and you can't have like any kind of 999 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: liberatory politics in a settler state without that. But on 1000 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,320 Speaker 1: the other hands, like okay, the actual politics of Taimani's 1001 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 1: digenous people is really complicated, like it it doesn't work 1002 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,120 Speaker 1: in the same way that like indigenous politics in the 1003 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: US does for example, like different true, I mean, and 1004 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:28,959 Speaker 1: this is also true in the US, like different tribes 1005 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: and different relations to sort of indigenous nationalism. Like and 1006 00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: another thing that that's true about um, the that that 1007 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: that that that's true about Timany's dedigenous people is that 1008 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: a lot of them vote for the KMT. And they 1009 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,200 Speaker 1: do this for a couple of reasons, one of which 1010 00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,720 Speaker 1: is because the KMT has this like really really powerful 1011 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: and eccentric patronage network that they've been running for literally 1012 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,400 Speaker 1: like basically since they got into the island. They've been 1013 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,160 Speaker 1: running this patriots network and this allowed them to do 1014 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,360 Speaker 1: like real incredibly intense and powerful based building in indigenous communities. 1015 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 1: Right Like they're like the d DP are the people 1016 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: who like distribute, Like okay, they have like a center 1017 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:03,920 Speaker 1: and right and you go there and they get they 1018 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,680 Speaker 1: give you like food, right like they this this this 1019 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: is the place where you get your like sesame oil. Right. 1020 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,800 Speaker 1: And then also there's the that's the second layer of 1021 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,239 Speaker 1: the picture network, right, is like if you want to 1022 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 1: get a job, you join the KMT, And so they 1023 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: have these they have these really deep sort of political 1024 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,760 Speaker 1: roots in that sense. And then also, um, the CAMT 1025 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,640 Speaker 1: does this thing where they're like, hey, look the DPP 1026 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,359 Speaker 1: is doing settler nationalism, like hey, these are the people 1027 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,919 Speaker 1: who colonized you, like fuck them, like you should alley 1028 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,360 Speaker 1: with us instead, which is true, Like like it it 1029 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,600 Speaker 1: is true, and like I think, I don't know, like 1030 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: Taiwanese progressives kind of like tap dance around this, but 1031 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:41,759 Speaker 1: like yeah, like it is true that the sort of 1032 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: like Han Taiwanese identity is a sort of settler nationalism. 1033 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,279 Speaker 1: But like also this is true with the KMT as well, 1034 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: Like the CAMT are also was settler nationalism, like you know, 1035 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:55,640 Speaker 1: like they conquered the island and ruled as you know, okay, 1036 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,160 Speaker 1: And and you'll you'll you'll try you'll also see people 1037 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: who will take this argument and try to argue that 1038 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,040 Speaker 1: indigenous people voting for the KMTE means that indigenous people 1039 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,799 Speaker 1: support China invading Taiwan. And this is just comically wrong, 1040 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,160 Speaker 1: like they're just they are lying to you. Indigenous people 1041 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 1: in Taiwan, like literally everyone else in Taiwan do not 1042 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 1: support being ruled by China, and the argument that a 1043 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: Chinese occupation of Taiwan is somehow less of a settler 1044 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: state than the current system is just like comically propaganda bullshit. 1045 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:26,839 Speaker 1: And yeah, China, Yeah that's not being kind. Yeah, I'm 1046 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 1: gonna get into like this a little bit too, right, 1047 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: which is okay, So, like I've been trying to be 1048 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,399 Speaker 1: fair and balanced here, right, like I have been giving 1049 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: you my critique of Taiwe's Chinanese progressivism. This is gonna 1050 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,160 Speaker 1: piss off a lot of people. But like, having said 1051 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,880 Speaker 1: all of this, China invading Taiwan would be really really 1052 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 1: really bad, Like I cannot emphasize enough how bad this 1053 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 1: would be. Like, okay, so Taiwan is like a regular 1054 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: regular settler bugwad democracy with like all of the sort 1055 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,960 Speaker 1: of good and bad things about Bushwa democracies which we're 1056 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,480 Speaker 1: all familiar with, right, Like we understand what is that 1057 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,960 Speaker 1: lared democracy is um to be fair, the modern taime. 1058 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: His government is like infinitely less violent than the modern 1059 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: American government, like like the I I looked at, like 1060 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,840 Speaker 1: the prison population in like relative population in Taiwan is 1061 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,960 Speaker 1: like I think it's like an eighth of the of 1062 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,760 Speaker 1: what the American prison population is, right, Like, it's it's 1063 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,640 Speaker 1: not like, you know, okay, it's it's like Taiwan is 1064 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,320 Speaker 1: not like a sort of like it's like Taiwan is 1065 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,040 Speaker 1: not a socialist state, right, but it's also like, you know, 1066 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: better in the U s which is an incredibly low 1067 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,840 Speaker 1: bar that like you could trip and fall over it, 1068 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,360 Speaker 1: but like, you know, okay, it's it's better in the 1069 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 1: US UM. Yeah, you know, it's closer to like Sweden 1070 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:35,960 Speaker 1: or something in terms of violence. But I think is 1071 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,560 Speaker 1: also a good comparison because Sweden also has an indigenous 1072 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,480 Speaker 1: population called the Sami, and I all Swedish leftists will 1073 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,760 Speaker 1: studiously never admit that they exist or talk about them 1074 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,720 Speaker 1: at all. So okay, again, this is not a stateless 1075 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: class society. But it's also like like sence sence, since 1076 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,720 Speaker 1: the CAMPT has been disarmed, like this is not one 1077 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,040 Speaker 1: of the world's great purveyors of violence, right, Like it's 1078 00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,080 Speaker 1: not the us UM. China, on the other hand, is 1079 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,880 Speaker 1: a ferociously reactionary, capitalist, settler dictatorship. And this is something 1080 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,280 Speaker 1: that Americans have very little experience with. Um for a 1081 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,400 Speaker 1: long time, people argue that, okay, like if if if China, 1082 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: like if Taiwan became a part of China, Taiwan would 1083 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 1: get some kind of relationship similar to what Hong Kong has. 1084 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 1: Were like they were free elections and union organizing and 1085 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,040 Speaker 1: free speech is legal. But you know, twenty nightteen happens. 1086 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah right, you know, I mean even in Taiwan, like 1087 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,000 Speaker 1: the I'm sorry, not even even even in Hong Kong, right, 1088 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,800 Speaker 1: the extent to which like you know, like union organizing 1089 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,720 Speaker 1: and free association and free press existed. We're like and 1090 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,640 Speaker 1: again like Hong Kong also, and I want to point 1091 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 1: this out, like the CCP has been strengthening this the 1092 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: entire time they were there. Hong Kong is the only 1093 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,160 Speaker 1: place on earth wor corporations have the right to vote 1094 00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,520 Speaker 1: and they vote for the c C peach Like it's 1095 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: so okay, this is this is great, but you know 1096 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,160 Speaker 1: twenty Nen happens, right, And guess what now, Hong Kong 1097 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 1: has National Security Law, which allows the government to rescue 1098 00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,040 Speaker 1: literally for posting on Twitter that you don't think that 1099 00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 1: China should control Hong Kong. UM Secretary Secretary Way for 1100 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,160 Speaker 1: Security in Hong Kong, Chris Tang said earlier this week 1101 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,720 Speaker 1: that criticizing the government with the intention to provoke quote 1102 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,160 Speaker 1: potention to provoke hatred quote between the classes was a 1103 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:16,400 Speaker 1: violation of the National Security Law. A position that if 1104 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,640 Speaker 1: actually like that, that, if actually like like this, if 1105 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: you take this position, this would outlaw in its entirety 1106 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,480 Speaker 1: all socialist organizing in Hong Kong. Because again, anything that 1107 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: attempts to provoke hatred between the classes ISAs illegal. Yeah, 1108 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:40,000 Speaker 1: and yes, some of era of liberal Democrats existence within Yeah, 1109 00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,280 Speaker 1: and this is this is the moneth and like you know, 1110 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean again like people people talk about this lot, 1111 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,480 Speaker 1: like Hong Kong is one of the world's most neo 1112 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,160 Speaker 1: liberal cities and this ISP has taken it over. And oh, hey, 1113 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: guess what they're They're they're living out the neoliberal dream 1114 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,320 Speaker 1: of making it illegal to try to do any like 1115 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: trying to do like class war stuff. Um. One of 1116 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 1: the things that happens immediately after National Security laws that 1117 00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,480 Speaker 1: it's used to destroy China's China's Independent Trade Unions Federation, 1118 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 1: and this brings us to like the sort of class 1119 01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 1: perspective on this. Um independent union organizing and China is illegal. 1120 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,680 Speaker 1: And when I say it's illegal, I don't mean illegal 1121 01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,480 Speaker 1: in the sense of like jaywalking. We're like, okay, if 1122 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,640 Speaker 1: someone if if like a cops sees you jaywalking, they 1123 01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: might arrest you. Like if you try to do independent 1124 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,560 Speaker 1: union organizing in China, men will show up to your 1125 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,280 Speaker 1: house in the middle of the night and you will 1126 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,280 Speaker 1: disappear for three months until a video of you with 1127 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 1: two very large men standing just out of camera range 1128 01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,160 Speaker 1: appears in which you recan't you're organizing and apologize for 1129 01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,680 Speaker 1: your crimes, like to to to get a sense of 1130 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,160 Speaker 1: the level of oppression we're dealing with here to Chinese 1131 01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:40,320 Speaker 1: leftists named Louis You You and Leading You recorded and 1132 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 1: published a series of protests like they basically they had 1133 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,520 Speaker 1: they on the Chinese social media, like they posted this 1134 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,640 Speaker 1: like record basically of strikes and protests that were happening 1135 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 1: in the country every day. So like literally all they're 1136 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: doing is they are documenting the strikes and protests that 1137 01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,640 Speaker 1: are happening and collecting data about them and posting it. 1138 01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Um In the police showed up to lose house, put 1139 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,520 Speaker 1: a bag over his head and dragged him away to 1140 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: a dragging away to a jail cell. Uh Lou spent 1141 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,240 Speaker 1: four years in prison. Lee got two years, and the 1142 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 1: two of them never saw each other again. So again, 1143 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,680 Speaker 1: this this is what happens if you literally just report 1144 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: on the wildcat strikes that are happening, someone will put 1145 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,520 Speaker 1: a bag over your head and you will go to 1146 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:27,200 Speaker 1: prison for four years. Like it is. It is like 1147 01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,440 Speaker 1: the situation for organized labor of any kind of anyone 1148 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:35,680 Speaker 1: trying to do union organizing in China is unbelievably dire. Um. Now, China, 1149 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,120 Speaker 1: and this is when I'm talking about, here's the independent 1150 01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: union organizing. China has an official trade union federation, um, 1151 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,440 Speaker 1: the Trading Unifederation China has such a fucking joke that 1152 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: is literally a matter of academic debates, Like there are 1153 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,360 Speaker 1: academic papers arguing about whether or not it even actually 1154 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: counts as a union. And this has been true since 1155 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,240 Speaker 1: the late neteen fifties when the CCP decided that, oh hey, 1156 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: this trade union is there to represent the party and 1157 01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,280 Speaker 1: not workers, and its roles to mediate between the you know, 1158 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,160 Speaker 1: to mediate between the party and workers, not actually to 1159 01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, like represent them when they like when they 1160 01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 1: had a dispute with their bosses. So yeah, like they 1161 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,760 Speaker 1: don't like they they don't. They don't go on strike 1162 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,800 Speaker 1: like ever like they they they they they They exist 1163 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,120 Speaker 1: as like another part of the party state, the goal 1164 01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 1: of which is to make sure that bosses keep making money. 1165 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: If you try to work outside, if it, they will 1166 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: arrest you. Now, Taiwan is not like a shining workers paradise, 1167 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 1: right that the sort of vaunted semiconductor industry that everyone 1168 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:29,480 Speaker 1: talks about is run by a bunch of workers getting 1169 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,200 Speaker 1: the ship burned out of them by vats of acid. 1170 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,920 Speaker 1: But conditions for the Chinese working class are even worse. 1171 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,760 Speaker 1: Counties wages are highered. Taiwana is better workplace protections. Again, 1172 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,480 Speaker 1: you can legally organize unions. Uh. Meanwhile, in China there 1173 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,040 Speaker 1: are famously suicide nets around Chinese factories because working for 1174 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,280 Speaker 1: these places is so fucking awful that people would literally 1175 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 1: rather kill themselves and live in it. And you know, 1176 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,880 Speaker 1: you can ask why is this happening, And the reason 1177 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:52,200 Speaker 1: it's happening is that a lot of the stuff that 1178 01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,680 Speaker 1: is literally the worst fucking nightmare of the American left 1179 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: things like your boss owning your apartment is just standard 1180 01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,200 Speaker 1: practice in China. This is this is just this is 1181 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: just what it's like to be a worker in China. 1182 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,840 Speaker 1: Your boss owner apartments. You have literally hundreds of millions 1183 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,160 Speaker 1: of people who live in these tiny like they're called 1184 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,880 Speaker 1: workers dormitories, which again often literally owned by like the 1185 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,600 Speaker 1: owner of the factory they're in. You get like when 1186 01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,760 Speaker 1: when I say like the workers dormitories, right, it's not 1187 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: even like it's not even like an American dorm building 1188 01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,600 Speaker 1: right where like you you know, you have like your 1189 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,520 Speaker 1: own room. It's like it is yeah, like it's it's 1190 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of people sleeping in cots, like like sleeping 1191 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,800 Speaker 1: in bunk beds with like a fucking bucket next to 1192 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,880 Speaker 1: them to go to the bathroom. Like it is. It 1193 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:36,960 Speaker 1: is horrible. Um, you have like like the the I 1194 01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,200 Speaker 1: talked about this lot in this show. But again like 1195 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,800 Speaker 1: literally there are paid a loans integrated into delivery apps 1196 01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:45,840 Speaker 1: like this. This is the level of capitalism that that 1197 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,240 Speaker 1: China is. And like I'm not gonna like, I'm not 1198 01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 1: going to argue that it's worse than the US. I 1199 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,680 Speaker 1: think they're bad in different ways, like they're there, there 1200 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,160 Speaker 1: are there are there, like the the U s IS 1201 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,640 Speaker 1: incarceration system is like you know, like one of the 1202 01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,760 Speaker 1: great human evils the entirety of human history right there. 1203 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 1: There are things that like the US is worse at 1204 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,960 Speaker 1: like the Chinese police are a lot less likely just 1205 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:09,400 Speaker 1: fucking murder you like you know, but like yes, but 1206 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: like China, it sucks to be a worker in China, 1207 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,360 Speaker 1: Like it really sucks. And I can't emphasize this enough 1208 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,560 Speaker 1: because I don't because people don't really understand this, like 1209 01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,200 Speaker 1: they they like people do not understand that. Again, like 1210 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,080 Speaker 1: the normal Chinese schedule is called you work nine am 1211 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,240 Speaker 1: to nine pm, six days a week. This is the 1212 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,280 Speaker 1: normal schedule. Mostly a lot of workers like that. That 1213 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: that again that that that's like an average schedule. Most 1214 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:37,040 Speaker 1: people work more than this seventy hours a week, right 1215 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,280 Speaker 1: like it is it is it is a ship show. 1216 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,560 Speaker 1: And yeah, if if Taiwan, if China invades Taiwan, that 1217 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,400 Speaker 1: you conditions to the Taiwanese working class are going to 1218 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,720 Speaker 1: get worse. That is just a fact. Try like imposing 1219 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,240 Speaker 1: Chinese law on Taiwan, which strengthened the power of the 1220 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,960 Speaker 1: capitalist class. A week in the proletariat um from from 1221 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,040 Speaker 1: an indigenous perspective, which we We've talked about this at 1222 01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,680 Speaker 1: length about you know, we talked about at length how 1223 01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,360 Speaker 1: the Taiwan system is not that good. But you know, 1224 01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: it's not like it's a settler colony. There's some representation, 1225 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,880 Speaker 1: but you know, it's not great. It is much better 1226 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: than the CCP system. The CCPs line on ethnic minorities 1227 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,080 Speaker 1: is that if you're an ethnic minority in China, you're 1228 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 1: going to work in a han factory. You're going to 1229 01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,200 Speaker 1: pick crops from han owed fields. You're going to dance 1230 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,040 Speaker 1: and smile for hon tourists. If you step out of line, 1231 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:17,040 Speaker 1: you will be dragged out of your bed in the 1232 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:18,600 Speaker 1: middle of the night and sent to a fucking camp 1233 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:20,840 Speaker 1: there are you know, like this is the thing that 1234 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 1: Americans sort of have similar experiences with. It's like, you know, 1235 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:27,880 Speaker 1: you have immigration raids, you have raids on homeless encampments, 1236 01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,160 Speaker 1: but it's not that's and that that's like, you know 1237 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,880 Speaker 1: that that's a kind of experience that is somewhat similar 1238 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:35,480 Speaker 1: to what it's like to live in change on but 1239 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,040 Speaker 1: like it's not exactly the same. Like, I I know 1240 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,800 Speaker 1: people whose families are just fucking gone, Like the police 1241 01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,200 Speaker 1: showed up in the middle of the night, and their 1242 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,640 Speaker 1: families just gone. They've never seen them again, Like they're 1243 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,160 Speaker 1: they're just gone. No no one knows where they are, 1244 01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,520 Speaker 1: no one knows who's even alife. They're just finished. And 1245 01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,200 Speaker 1: if and if you think that this isn't going to 1246 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,040 Speaker 1: happen to Taiwan's indigenous population, the moment they start talking 1247 01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:00,520 Speaker 1: about self determination, you are incredibly bafflingly hopelessly naive. And 1248 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, like like that, there there's a lot of 1249 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 1: other ship that you can point to, right like for example, 1250 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,240 Speaker 1: Taiwan has game marriage and China dozen't like the degree 1251 01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,880 Speaker 1: of press censorship just like social media censorship in China 1252 01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't need some Taiwan is like absolutely absurd, Like 1253 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, I I think like most like some people 1254 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,200 Speaker 1: talking about press censorship in the US are like almost 1255 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,080 Speaker 1: always right wing ship heads who were complaining about like 1256 01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,360 Speaker 1: they yelled a bunch of slurs. Like in China, a 1257 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,680 Speaker 1: very common thing that happens, Like someone will be posting 1258 01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,720 Speaker 1: about a corrupt local official and then every single post 1259 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: about it will get to lead. And if you try 1260 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,720 Speaker 1: to post the guy's name of your post won't go up, 1261 01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,440 Speaker 1: and then any emoji that people were using in association 1262 01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: with the corrupt local official like get blocked and you 1263 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,720 Speaker 1: can't use the emotis anymore, and like you know and 1264 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,560 Speaker 1: like and I it's it's almost like the level of 1265 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,080 Speaker 1: censorship is almost comical to the extent where like people 1266 01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:51,120 Speaker 1: don't believe like in the US, like don't like you 1267 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,600 Speaker 1: know when people talk about like like oh, the the 1268 01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,320 Speaker 1: Chinese government isn't really banning get guys who look too 1269 01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,240 Speaker 1: feminine and gay guys from appearing in medias, Like no, 1270 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,920 Speaker 1: they are like they're there there there. I think I 1271 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: think it was a Beyonce concert. There there there there 1272 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:06,960 Speaker 1: was a very famous, like very funny thing that happens 1273 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,880 Speaker 1: like a few months ago where there was this concert. 1274 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:11,880 Speaker 1: I think it was a Beyonce concert. It must be. 1275 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,960 Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was, but like so there 1276 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,600 Speaker 1: was a stream of it in China, and there was 1277 01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,840 Speaker 1: a guy there was a censor who was like putting 1278 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,400 Speaker 1: like one of those gray out censored bars like over 1279 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,880 Speaker 1: over the singers closed because they were they were considered 1280 01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,720 Speaker 1: too explicit, and she's just like moving this like dot 1281 01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,040 Speaker 1: of like censorship thing across the stage trying to fall, 1282 01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,520 Speaker 1: Like this is the level of bullshit that happens here, 1283 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,479 Speaker 1: Like it's it's not a thing that like the US 1284 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,840 Speaker 1: really has much reference for because like we don't experience 1285 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,040 Speaker 1: like this is not a thing that you don't experience 1286 01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:43,000 Speaker 1: you experience in the US. Like, yeah, sometimes I like 1287 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,680 Speaker 1: to think about these things in terms of like like 1288 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,160 Speaker 1: like all people talk about a Well and Huxley as 1289 01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: these dystopian novels, right and imparts. People don't read those novels, 1290 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,000 Speaker 1: but they love to quote them. And like in all else, 1291 01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,400 Speaker 1: we have like a system which like keep you quiet 1292 01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,640 Speaker 1: by pushing you down right, and in Huxi's we have 1293 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,560 Speaker 1: a system which keeps you quiet by keeping you happy 1294 01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,320 Speaker 1: with with drugs and such, and like it. Then it's 1295 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,640 Speaker 1: important to recognize it, like it both things can be bad, 1296 01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,919 Speaker 1: but the material conditions in the day to the life 1297 01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,600 Speaker 1: of people, especially marginalized people in one society, can be 1298 01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,840 Speaker 1: markedly better. Yeah, well, and I think also like yeah, 1299 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,240 Speaker 1: like I think it's as we're not like the ways 1300 01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,679 Speaker 1: in which the American like there there are similarities, but like, yeah, 1301 01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:30,240 Speaker 1: like there are lots of ways in which the sort 1302 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,000 Speaker 1: of Chinese system and the American system are differently bad, 1303 01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,000 Speaker 1: and that breaks people's brains because you get a lot 1304 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,759 Speaker 1: of like you get you get a lot of Americans 1305 01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:40,640 Speaker 1: who were convinced to become convinced that like China as 1306 01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,920 Speaker 1: a socialist paradise. There's a Chinese version of this, where 1307 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:44,439 Speaker 1: like you get international students who come to the US 1308 01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:45,800 Speaker 1: for the first time and see an election, and they 1309 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,400 Speaker 1: like lose their minds and are like absolutely convinced that 1310 01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,920 Speaker 1: like American democracy is like the only thabo political system 1311 01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,840 Speaker 1: and they read Hyak and they like lose They just 1312 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,760 Speaker 1: like they become the Chinese version of tank You's, which 1313 01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,439 Speaker 1: are like weird near liberal people, and it's like no, 1314 01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,720 Speaker 1: like I no, actually, in fact, none of these things 1315 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,240 Speaker 1: are good. Both of these societies are just like not 1316 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,479 Speaker 1: good to live in any way. And like you know, 1317 01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:08,960 Speaker 1: and I think that there's no other thing I should 1318 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,640 Speaker 1: mention here, like why all of this sort of like 1319 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,400 Speaker 1: bullshit posturing is happening between the US and China right now, 1320 01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,040 Speaker 1: Which is that like on on the American side, like 1321 01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:21,720 Speaker 1: Biden is trying to distract from the fact that the 1322 01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,559 Speaker 1: country is falling apart, and there's a bunch of fascists 1323 01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:28,160 Speaker 1: trying to take over and like, you know, like all 1324 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,920 Speaker 1: of this bullshit is happening. China is trying to distract 1325 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,400 Speaker 1: from the fact that they have nineteen percent youth unemployment 1326 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:38,880 Speaker 1: right now and that like there are there are like 1327 01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:43,200 Speaker 1: cops dispersing people doing runs on banks because the it 1328 01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,360 Speaker 1: finally looks like the Chinese housing bubbles about to crack, 1329 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:50,560 Speaker 1: Like it's you know, this sort of nationalist stuff is 1330 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,680 Speaker 1: like for for for China in the US, it is 1331 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,240 Speaker 1: this sort of game that they play that has a 1332 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,800 Speaker 1: lot to do basically with pacifying their own internal populations. 1333 01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,560 Speaker 1: But you know, for everyone in Taiwan, like it's not 1334 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,840 Speaker 1: a game. And that's that's the thing I think I 1335 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,599 Speaker 1: want to close on, which is like the single most 1336 01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,320 Speaker 1: important thing here, is that there is no way for 1337 01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,680 Speaker 1: China to take control of Taiwan except by warcent of 1338 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,439 Speaker 1: the population does not want to be ruled by China. 1339 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,160 Speaker 1: Of the population of Taiwan wants the status quo. If 1340 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:22,559 Speaker 1: you try to force Chinese rule of Taiwan, the only 1341 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,240 Speaker 1: way to do it is by war and seasoning and 1342 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,559 Speaker 1: controlling season control of and occupying a place with twenty 1343 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 1: three and a half million people is going to be 1344 01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,000 Speaker 1: a blood bath. There's no other way to do it, 1345 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,880 Speaker 1: even if you are. I does want to leave this 1346 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,080 Speaker 1: as sort of a message to people who like who 1347 01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,680 Speaker 1: don't agree with me on this, which is that if 1348 01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:43,840 Speaker 1: you've gotten to the end of this and you genuinely 1349 01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,599 Speaker 1: believe that Taiwan is part of China, are you willing 1350 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,839 Speaker 1: to watch your family get bird alife for that principle? 1351 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,920 Speaker 1: Because that that that is what you are asking us 1352 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,759 Speaker 1: to do. You are asking us to watch our families 1353 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,720 Speaker 1: die for your belief about lines in a map. And 1354 01:10:57,880 --> 01:10:59,960 Speaker 1: if if you are not willing to accept the concert 1355 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,160 Speaker 1: pquences of your belief personally, if you are not willing 1356 01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,599 Speaker 1: to see your family get obliterated by a fucking rocket, 1357 01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,960 Speaker 1: then don't push for it to happen to us. And yeah, 1358 01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,679 Speaker 1: that is that. That is type one one on one. Um, Please, 1359 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,160 Speaker 1: for the love of God, stop doing this bullshit. I 1360 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:20,280 Speaker 1: don't want my family to fuck die. I yeah, yeah, 1361 01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,160 Speaker 1: I think that's very well said, mate. I think a 1362 01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,280 Speaker 1: lot of people are so detached from the underground consequences 1363 01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:31,200 Speaker 1: so they're like theoretical on Twitter dot compositions that it 1364 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,679 Speaker 1: can be very easy to be incredibly callous to people 1365 01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,760 Speaker 1: who have loved one skin in the game. Yeah, and 1366 01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,680 Speaker 1: I think I think this is the part of it. Like, no, 1367 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,560 Speaker 1: like people on Twitter posting about this, there have no 1368 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,479 Speaker 1: stake in this whatsoever. It doesn't matter for them. If 1369 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,439 Speaker 1: everyone on top, if everyone who lives and I one 1370 01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,280 Speaker 1: died tomorrow, it would have no material effect in them whatsoever. Right, 1371 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,519 Speaker 1: Like the worst thing that would maybe happen to them, 1372 01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:52,760 Speaker 1: it was it would be harder for them to get 1373 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:58,800 Speaker 1: graphics cards. Yeah, you entire family, like this is this 1374 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,559 Speaker 1: is this is twenty three million people, an enormous number 1375 01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:03,479 Speaker 1: of whom are going to die if this thing happens. 1376 01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:10,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, like like, unless you are committed enough to 1377 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,040 Speaker 1: this to kill your own family, then fucking stop posting 1378 01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:19,640 Speaker 1: about it because that that that like, if if you 1379 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,840 Speaker 1: were not willing to materially accept the consequences of your 1380 01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: own position on yourself, then you shouldn't have it. Yeah, 1381 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:31,400 Speaker 1: especially when you're pretending to be left is. Yeah, yeah, 1382 01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,599 Speaker 1: that's this is this is gonna make it happen Here's Yeah, 1383 01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 1: don't don't have a Chinese invasion of Taiwan happened here. Yeah, 1384 01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,960 Speaker 1: overthrow your local settler quality. Yeah, settle like learnings is bad. 1385 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:50,920 Speaker 1: That's the official stunt of Yeah. Actually I don't. I'm 1386 01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,439 Speaker 1: not sure if we can legally. I think I think 1387 01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:54,280 Speaker 1: we can deal say this the official stance of cools 1388 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,559 Speaker 1: of cool side Media. I'm pretty sure we can't legally 1389 01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,880 Speaker 1: say it's the official stance. Yeah. If you cut that down, 1390 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:04,200 Speaker 1: I need Yeah, let's say, yeah, here are cool Zone Media. 1391 01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:09,000 Speaker 1: We don't endorse set like colonialism. Yeah, don't do it. 1392 01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:17,800 Speaker 1: War is bad, don't rocket cities. It could happen here 1393 01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,479 Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 1394 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,080 Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media 1395 01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:24,960 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart 1396 01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1397 01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:30,719 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 1398 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,240 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 1399 01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:34,799 Speaker 1: for listening.