Speaker 1: Up next on this edition of this League Uncut, Chris
Speaker 1: Haynes and me Mark Stein, we will provide you an
Speaker 1: in depth look ahead at the NBA's inaugural in season tournament.
Speaker 1: Will weave in some transactional news out of Philadelphia in
Speaker 1: the midst of some ranting from yours truly, and we'll
Speaker 1: go just as deep on the All Star Game, which
Speaker 1: this season in Indianapolis will revert to an East versus
Speaker 1: West format, no more player draft, and we'll look at
Speaker 1: what's ahead for the future of the NBA All Star
Speaker 1: Game and the next possible format change. All that to
Speaker 1: come here on this League uncut.
Speaker 2: Welcome to this league uncut.
Speaker 1: Rule of twenty four hour NBA News. This you, Chris Hans.
Speaker 2: It's time, work's time, it's some time.
Speaker 1: This league is underway, in fire. This should be a
Speaker 1: good one. Let's do it. Welcome in everyone to another
Speaker 1: edition of this League uncut. Mark Stein here with Chris
Speaker 1: Haynes of Turner Sports, the same Chris Haynes, who can
Speaker 1: hardly contain his excitement because the in season tournament. We
Speaker 1: are recording this on a Thursday night. Of course, TNT
Speaker 1: games they're on Tuesday nights during the early part of
Speaker 1: the season, so TNT Thursdays don't start until after the
Speaker 1: calendar flips and don't have to go head to head
Speaker 1: with the NFL. So Chris Haynes safely operating from Sacramento
Speaker 1: as we speak, and he half of this podcast very
Speaker 1: intrigued and excited by the n season Tournament. The crotchety
Speaker 1: old man not so much say that. I'm I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm intrigued to see how it is received,
Speaker 1: because that's really the mystery. How will fans react to
Speaker 1: this thing. You know, we've seen all week long. You know,
Speaker 1: they've unveiled the new courts that teams are gonna use
Speaker 1: and the special jerseys that teams are gonna use. And
Speaker 1: of course, cynical people like myself would say the reason
Speaker 1: they have to introduce all these different things is because
Speaker 1: the actual games themselves are very much not different, which
Speaker 1: a in season cup stickler like myself cannot overlook. But
Speaker 1: and I'm just really, I'm really just giving Chris a
Speaker 1: hard time. But he said on a recent podcast that
Speaker 1: this was something he was looking forward to, So I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna let him forget it now and keep keep
Speaker 1: giving him a hard time, Chris Haynes.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, start, I'm looking forward to it just to
Speaker 2: see how is going to be received. That's it, that's it.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to expect. Yes, you talk about
Speaker 2: the changing of the jerseys, new jerseys, new floor designs
Speaker 2: on the court, that's all good. But is the play
Speaker 2: going to is the play going uh? Is the play
Speaker 2: going to display desperation? Because ultimately that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 2: You're looking for that n CUAA tournament feel. You're looking
Speaker 2: for that, that's the kind of atmosphere that you want,
Speaker 2: you know, for those do you know do you know
Speaker 2: the rules? Not the rules, but do you know the
Speaker 2: breakdown of this? Do you want to explain that? Stile
Speaker 2: the breakdown of this play?
Speaker 3: In turn?
Speaker 1: Excuse me later today, later today. I also have a
Speaker 1: TV essay coming out, so I have been studying it
Speaker 1: intently because I've got a TV say looking at it.
Speaker 1: I knew we were going to get into it on
Speaker 1: this pod. I know we're going to get into it
Speaker 1: as well on the radio show that I do Saturdays
Speaker 1: in Dallas. Because you know, the big national televised game
Speaker 1: late Friday night, Mavericks at Nuggets, that is the N
Speaker 1: season tournament debut for both teams, Luca versus Jokic. So
Speaker 1: you know, that is the you know, the big first
Speaker 1: or one of the first two marquee games from an
Speaker 1: ESPN perspective. But here's the thing and the reason that
Speaker 1: I've been such a naysayer about it, and I can
Speaker 1: criticize myself too. I'm even a snob about it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a huge soccer fan, so I've been going.
Speaker 1: I've had the great privilege of going to Cup games
Speaker 1: in England for almost thirty years, so I'm really familiar
Speaker 1: with what this is supposed to look like. And my
Speaker 1: biggest quarrel with it is you can do the fanciest
Speaker 1: court designs you want, you can come up with the
Speaker 1: sweetest new uniforms you want, but this thing isn't a
Speaker 1: tournament until the quarter finals at best, and for my money,
Speaker 1: it's not really a tournament until the Semis, when two
Speaker 1: teams go to Vegas. If my math is correct, it
Speaker 1: takes sixty seven games to stage this in season tournament.
Speaker 1: Sixty of them are gonna be group stage games that
Speaker 1: are basically regular season games that are counted twice. The
Speaker 1: games that are played on this Friday night and basically
Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Friday through November, four games each for
Speaker 1: all thirty teams. They're regular season games that they're counting twice,
Speaker 1: and the four quarter final games same thing, will be
Speaker 1: regular season games counted twice. It's really only going to
Speaker 1: be those last three games in Vegas when teams go
Speaker 1: to the desert for the Semis and Finals. That's going
Speaker 1: to have a tournament feel, and it's really just that extra.
Speaker 1: The final is the eighty third game for the two
Speaker 1: teams that reach the final. I do think when we
Speaker 1: get to that portion, when we get to sending four
Speaker 1: teams to Vegas to contest the Semis and the Finals,
Speaker 1: at that point there will be a novelty factor and
Speaker 1: it will be a tournament feel. But you again, I
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just being mister negative here and you know,
Speaker 1: old man yelling at clouds and get off my lawn.
Speaker 1: But you know, the NBA came out with this hype
Speaker 1: film this week, the Heist, and it's it's very well done.
Speaker 1: It's a play on the Whole Ocean's eleven franchise. And
Speaker 1: you know, Michael imperiole e outstanding actor who does the narration,
Speaker 1: and you know it's got the version we've seen. I
Speaker 1: think it comes in installment, so I think there's more
Speaker 1: versions to come. But you know A d is in it,
Speaker 1: and Draymond Green is in it and a few other stars,
Speaker 1: so you know they've got Kawhi's in it. I think.
Speaker 1: So they got some high wattage players to participate. But
Speaker 1: very early on, I want you to take a listen
Speaker 1: here to the first four sentences of this short film.
Speaker 3: I got something something that's never been done before. All
Speaker 3: thirty teams, single elimination one NBA Cup, all leading right here,
Speaker 3: the most unpredictable city in the world.
Speaker 1: The movie talks about something that's never been done, a
Speaker 1: tournament for all thirty teams. But it says single elimination tournament.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. If it was a single elimination tournament,
Speaker 1: I think people would be hyped. But it is not
Speaker 1: a single elimination tournament. It is not. It does not
Speaker 1: until the quarterfinals. When we get to the final eight,
Speaker 1: it becomes single elimination. But it isn't single elimination for
Speaker 1: sixty of the sixty seven games that comprise the NBA tournament.
Speaker 1: For the whole month of November. It's going to be
Speaker 1: regular season games that count twice, four for each team,
Speaker 1: two at home, two away, and the results of all
Speaker 1: those will give us six group winners and then two
Speaker 1: wild cards, and that's how we're gonna get down to
Speaker 1: a quarterfinals. And like I said, that is as a
Speaker 1: as a champion of cup competitions, as someone who loves
Speaker 1: cup competitions, and like I said, I've been going to
Speaker 1: them myself for almost thirty years. There's just there are
Speaker 1: very few soccer elements to the NBA's version of an
Speaker 1: nd season tournament. And that is my quarrel. And look,
Speaker 1: hopefully everybody's gonna come back and say that I was
Speaker 1: just overly negative naysayer, old man didn't want to give
Speaker 1: this thing a chance, and it was great. And if
Speaker 1: that's the way it is and people end up loving it,
Speaker 1: I'll be the first to say I'm glad I was wrong,
Speaker 1: because it would be great if this thing became something new,
Speaker 1: a new tradition that livened up the regular season. Because
Speaker 1: all of this is designed to try to make the
Speaker 1: regular season more interesting. That is what the end NBA
Speaker 1: is constantly working on. That's what the player participation policy
Speaker 1: is about. And that's what this is about. You know what,
Speaker 1: mister Haynes, it's your you really should I've rambled on
Speaker 1: long enough here. You please react to my old man
Speaker 1: rantings because you are not a Soccer Cup snob like
Speaker 1: I am. So just all you've heard, you've heard you.
Speaker 1: I think you've got the gist of my various complaints,
Speaker 1: and like, give me your perspective now after hearing me
Speaker 1: run through all that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean you have some valid you made
Speaker 2: some valid points, you know, particularly about particularly about wanting
Speaker 2: to get the NBA season a little bit more interesting
Speaker 2: throughout the course of season. That's definitely been a complaint
Speaker 2: by fans is that, you know, the saying is the
Speaker 2: NBA doesn't get serious until after the All Star break
Speaker 2: and so and then also when you're talking and with
Speaker 2: talking about league partners, you're talking about TV partners here
Speaker 2: where where guys are sitting and they're resting, you know,
Speaker 2: T N T and ESPN uh. You know, they've always
Speaker 2: had a problem with that, you know, and then fans
Speaker 2: have complained even more so this is something that not
Speaker 2: only can get the interests of the fans or get
Speaker 2: the you know, get fans intrigued, but also with your
Speaker 2: TV partners, you can tell them, hey, we have some
Speaker 2: important games that we now can associate with the regular
Speaker 2: season that will hopefully help with ratings and revenue and
Speaker 2: things of that nature. Then you add in the player
Speaker 2: the new player available availability protocol in there. You know,
Speaker 2: this is all you know, All this, one way or
Speaker 2: another is geared towards incentivizing the existing TV part and
Speaker 2: the new partners where that's going to be a stream
Speaker 2: a streaming company coming on board the next TV rights deal.
Speaker 2: So again, I don't always like some of the ideas
Speaker 2: the NBA throws at at the league. The All Star game.
Speaker 2: I didn't like the mixing up the different players off
Speaker 2: of East and West because then it was never East
Speaker 2: and West anymore. And then the you know, so going
Speaker 2: putting the All Star back in this traditional format. I
Speaker 2: love it. But what I was going to say is
Speaker 2: that I kind of like that they at least try
Speaker 2: new things, and then they're not afraid to go back
Speaker 2: to the way it was. You know, we tried it
Speaker 2: for three or four years, didn't work, Let's go back.
Speaker 2: That's fine. I think they I think they had to
Speaker 2: try something for the regular season. I think everybody was
Speaker 2: kind of fed up with the way it was.
Speaker 1: And see, I think you you raise a great point there,
Speaker 1: because you know, for years there were you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't even whispers. We would hear suggestions from Adam Silver
Speaker 1: that hey, maybe we're going to call this thing the
Speaker 1: Stern Cup. There is still nothing at this point that
Speaker 1: is named after David Stern, who not only was Adam
Speaker 1: Silver's mentor, but is widely recognized as the greatest commissioner
Speaker 1: this league has ever had. Whether you're a fan or
Speaker 1: not a fan of David Stern, and certainly David Stern
Speaker 1: had his detractors, but when you look at the overall resume,
Speaker 1: you know he is regarded not just for the NBA,
Speaker 1: I think he is regarded as the signature commissioner of
Speaker 1: major league team sports in North America. He certainly had
Speaker 1: the longest reign thirty years. And there's you know, the
Speaker 1: NBA has There's been all kinds of trophies named and
Speaker 1: renamed for greats in this league, and there's still nothing
Speaker 1: that bears the name of David J. Stern, the commissioner
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty four through twenty fourteen. But so that
Speaker 1: this is called the This is all it is. It
Speaker 1: is only called the n Season Tournament. That is the
Speaker 1: official name of the event, and the teams are playing
Speaker 1: for the NBA Cup. That's all it's called. Now. My
Speaker 1: take is the reason that is you can't name this
Speaker 1: thing the Stern Cup in the event that it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: and that and that in two years, three years, five years,
Speaker 1: one year, whatever it is, they have to scrap it.
Speaker 1: And I agree with your other point here. It doesn't
Speaker 1: do any harm to try this. I can list all
Speaker 1: the things about it that I personally question and find
Speaker 1: very unsoccer like, but there's no harm in trying this.
Speaker 1: Maybe this clicks, I know one league source told me
Speaker 1: during the summer. You know, you can never be sure
Speaker 1: what resonates with younger fans. Maybe they're gonna love it.
Speaker 1: And if and if people love it, I'll be the
Speaker 1: first one to put my hand up and say I'm
Speaker 1: glad I was wrong. And it's you know, it's here,
Speaker 1: and none of the complaints I'm voicing are gonna land.
Speaker 1: And the league office is new, they've heard my take
Speaker 1: on this for months and they're well aware of my
Speaker 1: stance on the whole thing, and the messaging I always
Speaker 1: get back is you're too impatient. You got to give
Speaker 1: the NBA a chance to see if it can make
Speaker 1: this thing work. And Adam Silver publicly always says traditions
Speaker 1: are not built overnight, and that's fine, and so give
Speaker 1: it a whirl, give it a try. There's no harm.
Speaker 1: And look, I understand why the NBA did it this way. Basically,
Speaker 1: my complaint is, this is not a tournament. It's not
Speaker 1: a separate tournament from the NBA schedule, and that's what
Speaker 1: I wanted. I wanted a separate tournament. And the league
Speaker 1: is saying, with all the problems we have with our
Speaker 1: schedule now playing eighty two games and players not playing
Speaker 1: eighty two games anymore, and with the league feeling it
Speaker 1: needed to institute a player participate a patient policy to
Speaker 1: try to get more players and more stars to play
Speaker 1: more often, they didn't want to create a separate tournament
Speaker 1: for a secondary trophy that teams and fans might not
Speaker 1: consider important. Because the fear then is, if this is
Speaker 1: completely separate from the NBA standings, would the LA Clippers
Speaker 1: be playing Kawhi Leonard and Paul George all out to
Speaker 1: win a separate secondary championship and potentially risking their availability
Speaker 1: for the Larry O'Brien Trophy. No, they wouldn't, and to
Speaker 1: be honest, that is something that happens in England as well,
Speaker 1: with both the FA Cup and the League Cup. The
Speaker 1: best teams in England don't always play their best guys
Speaker 1: in those competitions because they're focused more on winning the
Speaker 1: league championship and the Champions League. So that was a
Speaker 1: valid concern. That's why the NBA didn't do this. The
Speaker 1: NBA said, we're going to make these regular season games
Speaker 1: that count twice to make sure that teams take it seriously,
Speaker 1: because if you don't take it seriously, you end up
Speaker 1: hurting your playoff chances. But I guess all of this
Speaker 1: ranting is meant to say, I think for this thing
Speaker 1: to succeed ultimately, it's going to have to overtime work
Speaker 1: in some of the elements that we see in soccer competitions,
Speaker 1: in in season tournaments abroad. Because we just saw it
Speaker 1: this week in Germany and England. In the German Pocal
Speaker 1: the German Cup, Sarbruken from the third Division upset Mighty
Speaker 1: Bayern Munich and that is Soccer's version of the fifteen
Speaker 1: seed that knocks off the number two seed in the
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament. And that's what this thing doesn't have. In
Speaker 1: the League Cup in England, they are moving now to
Speaker 1: the quarterfinals Arsenal and both teams from Manchester are out.
Speaker 1: They those three huge teams have already been knocked out
Speaker 1: and Chelsea and Newcastle play in the next round, so
Speaker 1: one of them won't even advance to the semifinals. And
Speaker 1: there's still a team in the English League Cup, port
Speaker 1: Vale from the third division, And so that's really where
Speaker 1: you get the romance and the intrigue. And in this version,
Speaker 1: the NBA's version, it's the same thirty teams we already
Speaker 1: see in the standings. It's East and West separated until
Speaker 1: the championship game, just like we see in the NBA finals.
Speaker 1: So there are no new teams participating, no one else come.
Speaker 1: It's the same thirty teams we always see. I just
Speaker 1: think down the road for real success in this thing,
Speaker 1: to really generate interest, there's going to have to be
Speaker 1: other teams, whether that's you know, is it. Do two
Speaker 1: Euro League teams somehow get thrown in the mix? Do
Speaker 1: teams from elsewhere. Come in. Do you have a G
Speaker 1: League all starts team that gets to participate? You need
Speaker 1: some other teams just to give we need something different.
Speaker 1: And then another idea would be, if you really want
Speaker 1: to make this thing a tournament, take all thirty teams,
Speaker 1: time out. Chris Haynes is tweeting during our podcast, unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm really in a rant. I'm getting all
Speaker 1: wild up. I'm toggling between. I'm toggling between. I'm toggling
Speaker 1: between soccer and the NBA and what the NBA needs
Speaker 1: to do to make its n season tournament better and
Speaker 1: what happens and what happens while we're taping. Chris Haynes
Speaker 1: has the temerity to tweet be our sources cold. While
Speaker 1: Danny Green was disappointed by how the final days of
Speaker 1: his tenure in Philadelphia unfolded, there remains an affinity between
Speaker 1: the three time NBA champion and the seventy six ers organization.
Speaker 1: Neither side has ruled out a return should a roster
Speaker 1: spot become available. You so happy, you loved you loved
Speaker 1: breaking my flow there with that news.
Speaker 2: Hey, I was looking at you. I was gonna see
Speaker 2: let me see if Stott is gonna break. Let me
Speaker 2: see if he just knowing you, you can't focus, You
Speaker 2: couldn't just finish your rant. You had to stop mid sentence.
Speaker 2: Don't let this stop.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So so I'm you've heard me, now go on.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how long we've been going,
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, whatever it is? So am I am? I?
Speaker 2: Just?
Speaker 1: Am I wrong? Am I? Am I being too like?
Speaker 1: I don't think I am like We I want this
Speaker 1: thing to be good.
Speaker 2: I would love but Stein. What you have to remember
Speaker 2: is Stein. Also, the NBA can still tweak it after
Speaker 2: that's this.
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. But here here was the point
Speaker 1: I was getting at before your before your Danny Green news.
Speaker 1: If we want to make this thing more of a tournament,
Speaker 1: and it's only gonna be the thirty NBA teams we
Speaker 1: already see, then why don't we just carve two weeks
Speaker 1: out of the season and take everybody to Vegas and
Speaker 1: play a thirty team, single elimination tournament in Vegas. So
Speaker 1: it's part of the schedule, but it can be done
Speaker 1: in two weeks so it doesn't drag out over six weeks.
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you why that's not gonna happen. Cause
Speaker 1: the teams that make a lot of money with their
Speaker 1: home dates, your Warriors, your Lakers, the teams that really
Speaker 1: make big bank on a home game, they're not giving
Speaker 1: up multiple home dates to go play a tournament in Vegas.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that version's gonna happen either. Teams
Speaker 1: will fight that, and so that's what I'm saying. Somehow, someway,
Speaker 1: this is year one. Try it any way you want it.
Speaker 1: Let's see how it goes. Let's see if court surfaces
Speaker 1: and New Jersey's really hook fans. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you know, maybe I'm not
Speaker 1: the demographic that they're targeting. Maybe these floor designs are
Speaker 1: just gonna wow people and mesmerize them.
Speaker 2: But that it's not. It's not a maybe you're not
Speaker 2: the demographic. You are not the demographic.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you then, have you how many games
Speaker 1: have you watched in your life because the floor was
Speaker 1: so cool?
Speaker 2: No, it's not my it's not I don't think it's
Speaker 2: my demographic either. It's not out of one of us.
Speaker 1: For the twenty year old twenty one year olds.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's for the teenagers, you know, to
Speaker 2: the twenty year olds, you know, who are fascinated by
Speaker 2: just different colors. Like with me, Stein like, I'm a
Speaker 2: stickler for tradition. I'm like all these before you had
Speaker 2: two different jerseys you at home, and you had a
Speaker 2: way maybe here and there there was alternative, maybe there's
Speaker 2: a third jersey. You know, growing up in the nineties, alternative.
Speaker 2: Now it's like how many jerseys teams have. It's like, damn,
Speaker 2: they got six, about six of them. So like, I
Speaker 2: feel you in that regard, But you know, these kids,
Speaker 2: you got to think about the shoes, and I know
Speaker 2: we're going off a little bit. Think about shoestn remember
Speaker 2: when players had their own signature shoes. Those signature shoes
Speaker 2: were the same colors as their uniforms. Think of the
Speaker 2: Penny Hardaways back in the day, the Jason kids, Michael
Speaker 2: Jordan's red and black, red, black and white. Those are
Speaker 2: pretty much his colors. Now with color ways, they would
Speaker 2: you know, there's all these different colors and players, the
Speaker 2: prop the NBA players, they wear shoe colors that are
Speaker 2: mismatched from their uniforms from their jerseys. So it's just
Speaker 2: a different era that we're in. And it's not my
Speaker 2: demographic their targeting. It's the demographic that's coming up, the
Speaker 2: demographic that consume NBA content and other content in different ways.
Speaker 2: You know, I still I watched most NBA games on
Speaker 2: my phone, but I still feel much more comfortable watching
Speaker 2: it on TV. I think that's probably the opposite for
Speaker 2: the younger generation. So you know, hey, it's worth a try.
Speaker 2: I think you have to try.
Speaker 1: I'm about fifteen years older than you, but if that
Speaker 1: means your mindset is closer to mine than the kids
Speaker 1: of today, I'm worried for you.
Speaker 2: I'm an old soul Stein. I'm an old So.
Speaker 1: You talk about shoes are religion, and shoes always have
Speaker 1: been religion, Like I mean, I just had such a
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've talked about this about ten times.
Speaker 1: I had such a good time recently interviewing George Gervin,
Speaker 1: like he has a new book out with our friend
Speaker 1: Scoop Jackson, and I just I mean, I could have
Speaker 1: talked to George Gervin for two hours. And I remember
Speaker 1: the last time I went to the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: going through the exhibit Hall, and they got it. They've
Speaker 1: got a pair of nineteen seventy seven Nike high top blazer.
Speaker 2: That's cold.
Speaker 1: I mean they like, I wanted to crack the glass
Speaker 1: and take those shoes. Liked.
Speaker 2: H It's it's just different, stun. It's a different time man,
Speaker 2: different time man, and it's you know usually you know, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm not complaining because again that they're trying to reach
Speaker 2: an audience that's not us, and so for that, I
Speaker 2: will have to say, let's give it some time. Let's
Speaker 2: give it a few years. Remember, they'll continue to tweak it,
Speaker 2: you know, from year to year before finally saying, hey,
Speaker 2: this is something we're doing permanent, or hey we're going
Speaker 2: to scratch it like they did the All Star for Matt.
Speaker 2: So I have to PLoud them for trying, because you
Speaker 2: they did have to do something to make the regular
Speaker 2: season much more compelling, especially the early part of the
Speaker 2: regular season.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, Like I said, I want I want
Speaker 1: your perspective.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want this to just be Mark Stein's traditionalist
Speaker 1: rantings because he's so set and stuff and doesn't like
Speaker 1: change and wants everything to be like it was in
Speaker 1: the eighties. But I do you know, we'll see, We'll
Speaker 1: see how it evolves over time. I do think one
Speaker 1: way or the other somehow, it's got to become more
Speaker 1: like a tournament for people to get excited about an
Speaker 1: nd season tournament. When Michael Imperioli is doing the video
Speaker 1: and saying, you know, thirty teams, single elimination, this has
Speaker 1: never been done before. Yeah, if it was thirty teams
Speaker 1: in single elimination, that would get I think that would
Speaker 1: get much more attention because the NBA definitely does not
Speaker 1: have that. I'm so glad though, you brought up the
Speaker 1: All Star Game, because we didn't talk about that in
Speaker 1: our last pod. When the week started, I had a
Speaker 1: piece about that. Okay, back to an East versus West
Speaker 1: format in Indianapolis in February. The target score in the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter is gone, The player draft is gone. And
Speaker 1: I think players really, they really didn't enjoy the draft
Speaker 1: as much as we wanted it. On the outside, I
Speaker 1: told everybody, I told Stein from the moment.
Speaker 2: They introduced that format, introduced the player draft, ninety percent
Speaker 2: of America was on board, ninety percent of media was
Speaker 2: on board. I was one of the long people was
Speaker 2: saying I don't think this is a good idea. I
Speaker 2: said it, and this is back when I because it
Speaker 2: started when I was at ESPN. I said it when
Speaker 2: I was at ESPN, when I was on Sports Center,
Speaker 2: when I was on the other show, NBA show back
Speaker 2: in the day. And this is why, this is why
Speaker 2: I said it, Stein, I said, these are all All Stars,
Speaker 2: all twenty four players that are selected, they're All Stars.
Speaker 2: But with this draft, now you're putting them in tiers.
Speaker 2: They already know there are tiers to it, but now
Speaker 2: you're publicly put them in tears where you know, there's Lebron,
Speaker 2: there's Gianni's but now it's like nobody wants to be
Speaker 2: picked last. Nobody wants to be picked second to last.
Speaker 2: These are players with egos, So it goes from being
Speaker 2: you're being happy that you're one of twenty four that
Speaker 2: you're All Star to now having to stress about like
Speaker 2: where I'm going to get picked at I saw it
Speaker 2: from day one. It was not It was not a
Speaker 2: comfortable situation for the guys, for the All Stars who
Speaker 2: are probably the on the you know, the bottom portion
Speaker 2: of the All Star tality. Lebron doesn't have to worry
Speaker 2: about that. Giannis doesn't have to worry about that, you know,
Speaker 2: Steph doesn't have to worry about that. You know, it's
Speaker 2: the it's the French players who probably don't make it
Speaker 2: every single year. And I just knew. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 2: it's good for fans because they want to see it.
Speaker 2: You want to see what the players expression from being
Speaker 2: picked last and all that. But I just I just
Speaker 2: knew it was not going to be a good idea.
Speaker 2: I was against it from day one.
Speaker 1: Well you have been proven right, And I was definitely
Speaker 1: on the other side saying, you know, a player draft
Speaker 1: is going to be awesome, It's going to be so
Speaker 1: great to see these guys. Let's let's please do it
Speaker 1: playground style with reversible jerseys. But it was clear last
Speaker 1: I mean last year's All Star draft in Salt Lake
Speaker 1: City is going to go down as a very newsy
Speaker 1: and memorable one because a Jannis with his first pick
Speaker 1: selected Damian Lillard, and in retrospect, that became a hint
Speaker 1: that we all kind of missed at the time of
Speaker 1: just how much, you know, how fond Jannis was of
Speaker 1: Dame and it has now led to them being real
Speaker 1: life full time twenty four to seven three sixty five teammates,
Speaker 1: and so that was a very handy hint that didn't
Speaker 1: get it was not described that way when it happened
Speaker 1: at the time. And then at the end of the
Speaker 1: player draft, we saw a chagrin Nikola Jokicic clearly feeling
Speaker 1: that discomfort that you just described, assigning himself to Lebron
Speaker 1: James's team before Lebron could even make the last pick
Speaker 1: and sticking Lowry market In with dreaded last pick in
Speaker 1: the draft status because Jokic didn't like it. And the
Speaker 1: man then went out and led his team in Denver
Speaker 1: to a championship and showed how laughable it is that
Speaker 1: he lasted that long in that player draft. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that that really will that will be remembered
Speaker 1: as the illustration of just how uncomfortable it actually was
Speaker 1: for the players involved.
Speaker 2: But why O by listen to me? Listen? First of all,
Speaker 2: it was nobody. Nobody listened to me Stein. I was
Speaker 2: saying it from day one, and largely I was saying
Speaker 2: it because that's what I thought. Anyways, Because remember, guys
Speaker 2: don't participate in the dunk contest because of social media today,
Speaker 2: because of the criticism. They would take the FLAC, they
Speaker 2: would take the means that would come about, you know,
Speaker 2: if they were to lose, if they're missing all these dunks.
Speaker 2: Social media has just created this. It's created this worrisome,
Speaker 2: toxic feeling, you know, amongst not not just professional players,
Speaker 2: people in general, you know, And that's something that wasn't
Speaker 2: around back in age and ninety. So if people are
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with social media, handling social media and what comes
Speaker 2: with that, come on now being picked last, Like that's
Speaker 2: just I just saw that. And then secondly, Stein, I
Speaker 2: talked to players. They didn't like it. And I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about Lebron's and stuff I'm talking about I'm talking
Speaker 2: about your players fifteen to thirty ranking. They didn't like it,
Speaker 2: you know. So I seen this coming. I didn't know
Speaker 2: that I thought the league was going to reverse its
Speaker 2: decision this soon, but I just seen it coming. And
Speaker 2: one more things starin about the All Star Hopefully people
Speaker 2: will listen to me because I was saying it from
Speaker 2: day one. Listen hear me out about this starn. This
Speaker 2: goes back to something I told Damian Lillard and CJ
Speaker 2: McCollum back when I was covering the Portland Troublizz back
Speaker 2: in my beat days. Hear me out, Stein, tell me
Speaker 2: if I'm being an old man, tell me if this
Speaker 2: is dumb or not.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not a bad influence on you.
Speaker 2: I and see, I'm kind of I'm going to kind
Speaker 2: of contradict myself because I like the East West format.
Speaker 2: But check this out. I was of the I was
Speaker 2: a proponent of let's just pick the top twenty four.
Speaker 2: The reason I say that because Stein, Dame and CJ.
Speaker 2: CJ hasn't made an All Star game at all. You
Speaker 2: could make the case that if CJ McCollum was in
Speaker 2: the East his whole career, he might have had a
Speaker 2: couple of All Star appearances, right, and Dame he believed
Speaker 2: he's an eight time All Star. He would definitely be
Speaker 2: ten time All Star if he was in the East
Speaker 2: his whole career. East just wasn't that strong in the
Speaker 2: Guard the guard area for most of their career. Because Stein,
Speaker 2: at the end end of their career, take somebody like
Speaker 2: who would you say, Let me give you an example,
Speaker 2: Kimba Walker. Compare Kimba Walker to CJ McCollum, Who would
Speaker 2: you say has had the better career.
Speaker 1: I see the point you're making here. Should Kimba Walker
Speaker 1: have four career All Star appearances and CJ. McCollum have none?
Speaker 1: Is that fair?
Speaker 2: That exactly, That's that's the question I'm raising that. But
Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, style hall of
Speaker 2: Fame not to say that these are Hall of Fame players,
Speaker 2: but when you're looking for looking at Hall of Fame credentials,
Speaker 2: what is going to take People are gonna look even
Speaker 2: if it's not Hall of Fame credentials. You could just
Speaker 2: spout out, hey, I was a four time, five time
Speaker 2: All Star.
Speaker 1: Look, all Star snubs have always happened and will always happen.
Speaker 1: I mean another I mean, if we're gonna go down
Speaker 1: this road, this is a thirty team league now, I mean,
Speaker 1: shouldn't all star teams be expanded in a thirty teen league?
Speaker 1: You know, a twelve twelve man All Star roster that
Speaker 1: worked fine in the eighties when I was a kid
Speaker 1: and it was a twenty three team league. But you've
Speaker 1: added seven teams and the all Star rosters have gotten
Speaker 1: no larger. So I mean that that argument has been
Speaker 1: made now for a while that should it be expanded
Speaker 1: to fifteen. But would that be fit? You know, I
Speaker 1: remember in the eighties. You know that the seventies is
Speaker 1: when I fell in love with the NBA. But the
Speaker 1: eighties is what I mean. I was in high school
Speaker 1: and it was just the league was erupting with you know,
Speaker 1: Magic and Larry and then the arrival of Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: But I remember two of my favorite players, and then
Speaker 1: two guys I ended up covering pretty closely and share
Speaker 1: the same last name, Derek Harper and Ron Harper. Zero
Speaker 1: All Star appearances between them. That's happened because competition for
Speaker 1: All Star spots is so tough.
Speaker 2: Snubs old, but it happened because the All Star competition
Speaker 2: is tough, or because of the conference they were in
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean in those days they were you know,
Speaker 1: Ron Harper was was all East in those in the eighties,
Speaker 1: and Derek Harper was in the West. So I mean,
Speaker 1: it really wasn't it. It really wasn't a conference thing.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just the point when there's only twelve
Speaker 1: spots a year, there are always gonna be at least
Speaker 1: two or three deserving guys who get left off, and
Speaker 1: it's very unfortunate. Okay, that's very unfortunate.
Speaker 2: But that's fine, that's fine. Stop But okay, say you
Speaker 2: add three right, Still there's still going to be a
Speaker 2: scenario where a player in another conference who is not
Speaker 2: the calibery player of somebody else, they're going to get in.
Speaker 1: They can they can expand they can expand the rosters
Speaker 1: to fifteen in the East and fifteen in the West.
Speaker 1: And we're still going to be screaming about who is
Speaker 1: number thirty one and thirty two. It's just and that's
Speaker 1: the way it is.
Speaker 2: Well why don't we, well, why don't we just pick
Speaker 2: the top twenty four regardless of idle comf.
Speaker 1: Because even if even if we do that, we're still
Speaker 1: gonna have snubs. We're still gonna be screaming about who
Speaker 1: is twenty fifth, twenty sixth, twenty seventh, and twenty eighth.
Speaker 2: So you don't think, you don't think CJ. McCollum zero
Speaker 2: All Star appearances. I'm just using them as example because
Speaker 2: that's what I was talking about with them back in
Speaker 2: my Portland days. It matters, It matters, like it matters
Speaker 2: on your resume. Even if you're not Hall of Fame,
Speaker 2: it matters on your resume. That you're a fourth. Nobody's
Speaker 2: gonna look at Stein when their career is done. Nobody's
Speaker 2: gonna say, oh, he's a four time All Star in
Speaker 2: the East. They're gonna say in the East when it
Speaker 2: was a weaker tier compared to the West, nobody's gonna
Speaker 2: say that. Nobody's gonna give context. It's just this person
Speaker 2: your time.
Speaker 1: On two or three or ten guys who got snubbed.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that.
Speaker 2: I just think it's more fair that that way, if
Speaker 2: you pick the top twenty four regardless of conference.
Speaker 1: Well, the reason I even wanted to bring this up once,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so glad you're the one who kind
Speaker 1: of brought All Star the All Star Game into the discussion,
Speaker 1: and you reminded me that because I wrote about this Monday,
Speaker 1: and this has been such a crazy week in the
Speaker 1: NBA that Monday feels like two three weeks ago now
Speaker 1: because so much has happened with the Harden trade. But look, yes,
Speaker 1: they're going back to East West for this season, but
Speaker 1: it's becoming increasingly clear that we are very likely in
Speaker 1: the near future, and you know, put near in air quotes.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how long but USA versus the
Speaker 1: rest of the world, that is a format that is
Speaker 1: going to get a tryout too, And I think this
Speaker 1: might surprise you. And you know, I think people who've
Speaker 1: read me for a long time know that. You know,
Speaker 1: international basketball is what started my career as an NBA writer.
Speaker 1: The first NBA story I ever did was a summer
Speaker 1: league story about the Lakers drafting Vlade divots. The so,
Speaker 1: you know, covering international players coming to the NBA has
Speaker 1: always been one of my favorite aspects of this job.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna surprise people here. I would I
Speaker 1: would argue against it. Even though the NBA and now
Speaker 1: opening Night rosters there were one hundred and twenty five
Speaker 1: international players, a record most in league history, but that's
Speaker 1: still only ten percent. If you're gonna give twelve All
Speaker 1: Star spots to one hundred and twenty five players and
Speaker 1: then the other three hundred plus players have to fight
Speaker 1: over twelve roster spots, it's just not fair. So even
Speaker 1: though yes, the international team continue, the theoretical international All
Speaker 1: Star team gets stronger and stronger and stronger every year,
Speaker 1: and we probably could come up with a list of
Speaker 1: twelve very good international players who would be All Star worthy,
Speaker 1: but that's not fair either, Like you can't if there's
Speaker 1: only one hundred and twenty five players from abroad and
Speaker 1: three hundred plus American born players, it just wouldn't be
Speaker 1: equitable to split up the All Star spots that way either.
Speaker 1: So I but again, I do think we are gonna
Speaker 1: see that format tried here in the in the near future.
Speaker 1: I had a chat recently with Mark Tatum, the NBA's
Speaker 1: deputy commissioner, and his quote was very very possible. So
Speaker 1: that's not an ultimate promise that it's happening, but it's
Speaker 1: a pretty strong indication that down the road, at some point,
Speaker 1: and maybe not too far down the road, the league's
Speaker 1: gonna try USA versus the rest of the world. And
Speaker 1: I think some people will love it because obviously, look,
Speaker 1: we haven't had an American born MVP since James Harden
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. Jokic, Jannis, and Bede have won the
Speaker 1: last five MVPs, Luca hasn't even won one yet, Shay
Speaker 1: Gil just Alexander. I mean, these are like all the
Speaker 1: MVP favorites are international players, but there's a difference between
Speaker 1: four or five international players dominating MVP voting and twelve
Speaker 1: international players getting an All Star spot. So I wonder
Speaker 1: what the uproar is going to be like when that happens.
Speaker 2: I've never thought about that. I don't know. I might.
Speaker 2: I might be in favor of that stun definitely for
Speaker 2: the trial period. Yeah, I might be definitely for a
Speaker 2: trial period. And that is a game that I would
Speaker 2: think everybody would get up.
Speaker 1: For, no question.
Speaker 4: That's Look, what if we're talking watchability, Yeah, if we're
Speaker 4: talking watchability and interest and an All Star game, that
Speaker 4: would get people fired up, no question. That would be
Speaker 4: incredible to see a team of American stars against the
Speaker 4: twelve best international stars, no question.
Speaker 2: That's the That's like the second coming of the Olympics.
Speaker 1: Right, what do you say again, what do you say
Speaker 1: to you know, what do you say to the CJ
Speaker 1: McCollums if CJ McCollum can't make an All Star team
Speaker 1: as it is, you know, when there's only twelve spots
Speaker 1: for Americans. Now, now you have to say, I mean,
Speaker 1: the math is the math fair here?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I don't. I don't think there's a right,
Speaker 2: right or wrong answer. I was throwing out a suggestion
Speaker 2: years ago, and but I'm listen, I'm happy that East
Speaker 2: and West is back, because it just didn't make sense
Speaker 2: that you pulled twelve from the East and twelve from
Speaker 2: the West and then you mix them all up and
Speaker 2: let players pick, and it was it really wasn't East
Speaker 2: or West, you know. So I was like, That's why
Speaker 2: I came to that conclusion. I was like, if they're
Speaker 2: just mixing up the players anyway, let's just pick the
Speaker 2: top twenty four regardless of conference. That way, the proper players,
Speaker 2: well well well more so, the proper players will be
Speaker 2: selected for the game.
Speaker 1: Will you be an Indie? Are you going?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll be there. I'll be there. That will be
Speaker 2: the last cold We went through what we what do
Speaker 2: we do? We went to what were were first cold cities?
Speaker 2: Chicago first? Or were we at a cold city before that?
Speaker 1: Caago was twenty twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: There was Cleveland.
Speaker 1: He wasn't Atlanta in the COVID year was COVID? That
Speaker 1: was twenty one the COVID The season after COVID when
Speaker 1: arenas had to be empty. I think that was Atlanta
Speaker 1: in twenty one, mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: I then Cleveland was after Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Cleveland twenty two and Salt no, Salt Lake. Yeah, salt
Speaker 1: Lake was twenty three, so Cleveland was twenty two.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So this is the last cold city before
Speaker 2: my area, the Bay area. So yes, I'll be there.
Speaker 2: I made it this far. I went to all.
Speaker 1: Those cold love Indianapolis. I haven't been there in ages.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to go there now to indian One
Speaker 2: thing about Indiana, people might not be you know, they
Speaker 2: might not be excited to go. But Indiana they know
Speaker 2: how to host big events. That's one thing about them.
Speaker 2: They know how to hold big events. So I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to seeing how they do.
Speaker 1: I am excited to go. It's been way too long
Speaker 1: since I made a visit to Saint Elmos. Please tell
Speaker 1: me you've had the fame shrimp cocktail at Saint Elmos.
Speaker 2: Never heard of it. I don't eat shrimp either, so yeah,
Speaker 2: not more Forte.
Speaker 1: That's like NBA. That is NBA religion right there, having
Speaker 1: a shrimp cocktail with incredibly spicy cocktail sauce.
Speaker 2: I'll have a sprite cocktail. How about that, Stan? You
Speaker 2: know what you said that that's NBA religion. What about
Speaker 2: this podcast religion? This league uncut whoever tweeted at us
Speaker 2: and was talking about my fire alarm going off. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna tell you right now, you did not hear one
Speaker 2: fire alarm going off on this episode this podcast. I
Speaker 2: made sure it was taking care of.
Speaker 1: It was good. That was actually fantastic that one of
Speaker 1: our loyal listeners said, hold on, I'm looking up exactly
Speaker 1: what he said, Carlos Scarcia on Twitter. Such a devoted
Speaker 1: listener to This League Uncut that Carlos tweeted, quote, the
Speaker 1: sound of the NBA truly being back is the beep
Speaker 1: going off on Chris Haynes smoke detector during the podcast.
Speaker 1: Truer word about this League uncut have never been spoken.
Speaker 1: But you fixed it. You got the ladder out and
Speaker 1: you fixed it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I just went upstairs.
Speaker 1: So so if you were downstairs, it would still be
Speaker 1: going off. Yes, Oh my goodness, so when we were
Speaker 1: So when we record our next pod, you're gonna go
Speaker 1: downstairs and we might hear it together.
Speaker 2: On what type of mood I'd be, But honestly, it
Speaker 2: depends on who's in the house.
Speaker 1: Well this, I mean, look this podcast. I had to
Speaker 1: do so much ranting and naysaying about the nd season tournament,
Speaker 1: and then you got us going on the All Star
Speaker 1: Game that we're gonna leave it there for now and
Speaker 1: there there are. We're gonna be back again together soon.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're gonna record something on Sunday night or
Speaker 1: Monday night at the latest. But we've gone We did
Speaker 1: too much ranting in this episode and we haven't left
Speaker 1: enough time because we need time. We need time. We've
Speaker 1: got to talk about the Milwaukee Bucks who got routed
Speaker 1: in Toronto. As we're recording this thing. I see Phoenix
Speaker 1: is making a fourth quarter run. So the Spurs were
Speaker 1: a big in Phoenix going for a sweep, but you
Speaker 1: know that game hangs in the balance. Who knows, maybe
Speaker 1: Phoenix comes back and wins it. They've cut a twenty
Speaker 1: point deficit in half. Miami could have easily started oh
Speaker 1: and five if they didn't squeeze out an opening night
Speaker 1: win over Detroit. The Heat have been a mess. The
Speaker 1: Memphis Grizzlies are a mess oh and five with no
Speaker 1: John Morant and having lost Steven Adams and Brandon Clark
Speaker 1: still rehabbing from an achilles injury. So there are several
Speaker 1: high profile teams that haven't started well. Then. Entering Friday's play,
Speaker 1: we had just two unbeatens left, both Boston and Dallas
Speaker 1: at four and oh, so we are going to get
Speaker 1: into all of that as well as set up James
Speaker 1: Harden's debut, which is expected Monday, his Clippers debut which
Speaker 1: is expected Monday. So we will get back to all
Speaker 1: those team specific issues on the hardwood. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: into all that next time. But we did so much
Speaker 1: ranting here that we we consumed more. We consumed more
Speaker 1: airspace than we expected.
Speaker 2: That's what old people do, they rent.
Speaker 1: So I found out tonight that you. I found out
Speaker 1: tonight that there's two old men on this show. It's
Speaker 1: not just me that you can that you consider yourself
Speaker 1: old now until I start asking you about your game
Speaker 1: and how you know, you know, can you still dunk?
Speaker 1: And you're getting getting enough shots up?
Speaker 2: And yeah?
Speaker 1: Then suddenly how many games a week you playing? These days?
Speaker 1: Now that the season is starting? Can you can you
Speaker 1: even play?
Speaker 2: I play about five five days a week. Really, yeah,
Speaker 2: I have a league. So the only day I don't
Speaker 2: play is on a Friday. Because I have a league.
Speaker 2: I have league game on Saturday and Sunday, So Friday
Speaker 2: is for rest rest of my body.
Speaker 1: And when you travel, they just they just deal with it.
Speaker 2: Travel, No, I just I don't. Yeah, well I try.
Speaker 2: Usually I'm not going on the weekends. It's only during
Speaker 2: the week for TNT, so I make all my league
Speaker 2: games on the weekend. But uh yeah, when I'm on
Speaker 2: the road, obviously I can't play play my pickup that
Speaker 2: I like to play. But yeah, I'm in Cuche.
Speaker 1: Somehow, We're gonna have to get some footage and do
Speaker 1: some analysis on this pod. Put your game under the microscope.
Speaker 1: Put Chris Haynes twenty twenty three under the microscope.
Speaker 2: I don't run from the spotlight. You let me know.
Speaker 1: I know you don't. You want it, You want to
Speaker 1: do a whole pod on it.
Speaker 5: All right, everybody that is gonna do it before we
Speaker 5: before we go deep in the weeds here on Chris Haynes'
Speaker 5: stat line in the Sacramento Pro Am League.
Speaker 1: Before we before we end up doing that, We're gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna all of a show. Please, if you haven't already, rate,
Speaker 1: review and subscribe to this league uncut wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. And as I said, Sunday night or Monday
Speaker 1: night at the latest, we will have a new pod
Speaker 1: recorded for you. Maybe we should wait till Monday night
Speaker 1: so we can see James Harden's first game as a
Speaker 1: Clipper and really break that down. That decision TBD, but
Speaker 1: enjoy this one. Stick with us, stay with us, and
Speaker 1: we will be back with you very very soon. And
Speaker 1: that'll do it for us. See you next time. This
Speaker 1: league uncut is and iHeartRadio production Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 1: I didn't