1
00:00:15,536 --> 00:00:21,276
Speaker 1: This is a gorgeous room.

2
00:00:21,576 --> 00:00:24,376
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. I do a lot of songwriting in here.

3
00:00:24,396 --> 00:00:30,906
Speaker 3: I also have a studio where I record, but I've

4
00:00:30,946 --> 00:00:35,366
Speaker 3: taken to writing here in this room. It first started

5
00:00:35,406 --> 00:00:40,536
Speaker 3: during the pandemic, and I was writing for a musical

6
00:00:40,556 --> 00:00:42,896
Speaker 3: called which is finally premiering.

7
00:00:42,976 --> 00:00:45,056
Speaker 2: The musical that's... Imitation of Life. Right.

8
00:00:45,576 --> 00:00:47,946
Speaker 3: So I first started writing songs in here for that.

9
00:00:48,506 --> 00:00:50,706
Speaker 3: And then I wrote my children's album here.

10
00:00:50,726 --> 00:00:50,796
Speaker 2: Wow.

11
00:00:51,806 --> 00:00:55,366
Speaker 3: And then I've been writing another musical. And almost all

12
00:00:55,426 --> 00:00:57,406
Speaker 3: that songwriting has been happening here in this room.

13
00:00:57,646 --> 00:00:57,946
Speaker 1: Wow.

14
00:00:58,066 --> 00:00:58,306
Speaker 2: Yeah.

15
00:00:58,706 --> 00:01:01,426
Speaker 1: Was this room set up like this prior to the pandemic?

16
00:01:01,506 --> 00:01:03,556
Speaker 3: This room was set up... Well, we moved here during

17
00:01:03,566 --> 00:01:05,396
Speaker 3: the pandemic. And this room was always going to be

18
00:01:05,456 --> 00:01:06,596
Speaker 3: like a piano bar.

19
00:01:07,016 --> 00:01:08,836
Speaker 2: So we have a bar. We have.

20
00:01:10,136 --> 00:01:16,416
Speaker 3: Behind the cameras... my awards here and everything. And this

21
00:01:16,456 --> 00:01:18,976
Speaker 3: was always set up to be this room and a vibe.

22
00:01:18,996 --> 00:01:22,296
Speaker 3: It's like my version of a musical man cave, I think.

23
00:01:24,176 --> 00:01:27,796
Speaker 3: You know, if you wanted some whiskey or listen to

24
00:01:27,816 --> 00:01:30,576
Speaker 3: some music, you come in here. We've got, you know,

25
00:01:30,636 --> 00:01:34,116
Speaker 3: a record player in the room, some nice speakers, and

26
00:01:34,296 --> 00:01:34,816
Speaker 3: it's a vibe.

27
00:01:35,076 --> 00:01:37,776
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. It really is. Do you feel

28
00:01:37,816 --> 00:01:39,256
Speaker 1: better writing outside of the studio?

29
00:01:39,946 --> 00:01:42,986
Speaker 3: When I'm writing by myself, I like to write here

30
00:01:43,666 --> 00:01:49,226
Speaker 3: because I like how convenient it is. But also, I

31
00:01:49,266 --> 00:01:52,906
Speaker 3: like that anytime inspiration strikes, I can just run back

32
00:01:52,966 --> 00:01:56,946
Speaker 3: in here. And I only record it on my voice

33
00:01:56,986 --> 00:01:59,286
Speaker 3: memos on my phone, so it's not any kind of

34
00:01:59,346 --> 00:02:00,606
Speaker 3: sophisticated recording.

35
00:02:01,066 --> 00:02:02,946
Speaker 2: But it gets the idea on.

36
00:02:04,486 --> 00:02:07,226
Speaker 3: Tape, and then we can figure out what to do

37
00:02:07,246 --> 00:02:07,746
Speaker 3: with it later.

38
00:02:08,156 --> 00:02:10,096
Speaker 2: And then I do the proper recording at my studio.

39
00:02:10,256 --> 00:02:14,476
Speaker 1: Yeah. The difference between writing so much writing happens with

40
00:02:14,536 --> 00:02:15,356
Speaker 1: other people.

41
00:02:15,436 --> 00:02:15,656
Speaker 2: Yeah.

42
00:02:15,776 --> 00:02:17,476
Speaker 1: You know, like, I don't know if that was exactly

43
00:02:17,496 --> 00:02:20,896
Speaker 1: the case around your first album, get lifted. It always

44
00:02:20,936 --> 00:02:21,496
Speaker 1: has been.

45
00:02:21,596 --> 00:02:25,596
Speaker 3: I've never made an album where I didn't co-write except

46
00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:29,896
Speaker 3: my children's album. So I wrote every original song on

47
00:02:29,926 --> 00:02:33,266
Speaker 3: my children's album, but every other album I've made, every,

48
00:02:34,326 --> 00:02:37,816
Speaker 3: every album has had lots of co-writing, uh, I've had

49
00:02:37,876 --> 00:02:41,556
Speaker 3: individual songs that I've written by myself completely, but there's

50
00:02:41,616 --> 00:02:45,116
Speaker 3: no album before that didn't include co-writing until I made

51
00:02:45,156 --> 00:02:45,956
Speaker 3: the Children's album.

52
00:02:46,416 --> 00:02:48,236
Speaker 1: But is it usually all in a room together?

53
00:02:49,456 --> 00:02:49,956
Speaker 2: Often.

54
00:02:50,056 --> 00:02:52,516
Speaker 3: So we didn't start using Zoom until the pandemic. But

55
00:02:52,596 --> 00:02:58,746
Speaker 3: now you will have Zoom writing sessions. So for my

56
00:02:58,846 --> 00:03:01,926
Speaker 3: Legend album, I had some Zoom writing sessions. For this

57
00:03:02,066 --> 00:03:05,486
Speaker 3: album with Pharrell Muse, I've had some Zoom writing sessions.

58
00:03:05,856 --> 00:03:08,956
Speaker 3: But before that, we were in a room together and

59
00:03:09,136 --> 00:03:13,416
Speaker 3: often it would be me and a producer. So the

60
00:03:13,436 --> 00:03:17,916
Speaker 3: producer is usually responsible for the instrumental, the beat, as

61
00:03:17,976 --> 00:03:20,496
Speaker 3: we call it in hip hop and R & B parlance.

62
00:03:20,996 --> 00:03:21,656
Speaker 2: And then.

63
00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:26,276
Speaker 3: Myself and maybe another writer would be responsible for the

64
00:03:26,316 --> 00:03:29,026
Speaker 3: top line. And so the top line is what we

65
00:03:29,056 --> 00:03:31,766
Speaker 3: call the melody, the thing that's sung by the singer.

66
00:03:32,526 --> 00:03:34,726
Speaker 3: So the melody and the lyric is the top line.

67
00:03:35,446 --> 00:03:38,926
Speaker 3: And so I'm often responsible for that. Sometimes we'll have

68
00:03:38,966 --> 00:03:42,366
Speaker 3: another top line writer join me. But usually there's a

69
00:03:42,406 --> 00:03:46,376
Speaker 3: producer making a beat or an instrumental and the top

70
00:03:46,416 --> 00:03:48,456
Speaker 3: line writers write what I sing.

71
00:03:48,736 --> 00:03:51,616
Speaker 1: And so you're sort of listening as as either two

72
00:03:51,656 --> 00:03:53,176
Speaker 1: beats or as the beats coming together.

73
00:03:53,216 --> 00:03:53,456
Speaker 2: Yes.

74
00:03:53,736 --> 00:03:54,576
Speaker 1: Thinking of ideas.

75
00:03:54,656 --> 00:03:58,296
Speaker 3: So sometimes producers will have kind of a library of

76
00:03:58,316 --> 00:04:00,876
Speaker 3: beats together. that they think are appropriate for you and

77
00:04:00,896 --> 00:04:03,456
Speaker 3: they'll play them for you. And then you'll say, Oh,

78
00:04:03,496 --> 00:04:06,276
Speaker 3: let's work with that one. That sounds good. Uh, and

79
00:04:06,616 --> 00:04:09,366
Speaker 3: doesn't mean the beat is stuck at that spot.

80
00:04:09,526 --> 00:04:10,386
Speaker 2: It may evolve.

81
00:04:10,446 --> 00:04:14,066
Speaker 3: We may add live instrumentation, um, and tweak it a bit,

82
00:04:14,466 --> 00:04:18,506
Speaker 3: move things around. Uh, but those are at least ideas

83
00:04:18,546 --> 00:04:21,386
Speaker 3: to get the thoughts started. And then we start to

84
00:04:21,426 --> 00:04:24,646
Speaker 3: write the top line to it. And usually they'll play

85
00:04:24,686 --> 00:04:27,836
Speaker 3: those beats. Uh, sometimes they'll make them in the room, like, uh,

86
00:04:28,146 --> 00:04:30,686
Speaker 3: When I was writing with Anderson. Paak, we made the

87
00:04:30,746 --> 00:04:31,946
Speaker 3: beat there in the room.

88
00:04:32,706 --> 00:04:35,306
Speaker 2: We were just jamming. I was on the keys. He

89
00:04:35,326 --> 00:04:36,346
Speaker 2: was on the drums.

90
00:04:37,126 --> 00:04:41,126
Speaker 3: And I think a couple other instrumentalists were in the room,

91
00:04:41,186 --> 00:04:43,826
Speaker 3: and we were just jamming. And we came up with

92
00:04:43,866 --> 00:04:46,846
Speaker 3: what we came up with in the room. Same thing

93
00:04:46,886 --> 00:04:48,486
Speaker 3: when I worked with the Free Nationals, who were.

94
00:04:48,406 --> 00:04:49,126
Speaker 2: Part of his crew.

95
00:04:50,306 --> 00:04:55,486
Speaker 3: But other times, the producers will have the beats already ready,

96
00:04:55,526 --> 00:04:57,346
Speaker 3: and you just listen to a bunch. and see what

97
00:04:57,406 --> 00:05:03,616
Speaker 3: inspires you. And I'll usually record a mumble track to

98
00:05:04,136 --> 00:05:07,236
Speaker 3: either my phone or I'll go in the booth or

99
00:05:07,256 --> 00:05:10,676
Speaker 3: we'll have a little handheld mic and I'll just mumble

100
00:05:10,716 --> 00:05:16,906
Speaker 3: a bunch of melodies over the instrumentals and see what

101
00:05:16,946 --> 00:05:20,006
Speaker 3: feels right. Sometimes I'll be like, oh, that melody really works.

102
00:05:20,346 --> 00:05:23,166
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll say, I like this aspect of that melody,

103
00:05:23,686 --> 00:05:26,726
Speaker 3: but I'll use this aspect of the other melody and

104
00:05:26,786 --> 00:05:29,206
Speaker 3: kind of piece the song together. And once I've figured

105
00:05:29,246 --> 00:05:31,116
Speaker 3: out what the form of the song will be, so

106
00:05:31,366 --> 00:05:36,456
Speaker 3: the melody, the structure, and sort of a little bit

107
00:05:36,496 --> 00:05:39,756
Speaker 3: of the concept, then I'll start to finish out the

108
00:05:39,796 --> 00:05:43,376
Speaker 3: lyric and flesh it out, flesh out the storytelling, and

109
00:05:43,696 --> 00:05:44,456
Speaker 3: complete the song.

110
00:05:44,896 --> 00:05:49,296
Speaker 1: It's amazing too, because it feels like, just thinking about

111
00:05:49,436 --> 00:05:50,996
Speaker 1: on the new album, a song like Pray For Ya,

112
00:05:51,076 --> 00:05:53,466
Speaker 1: which I can't get out of my head, to be honest.

113
00:05:53,486 --> 00:05:53,906
Speaker 2: Thank you.

114
00:05:54,726 --> 00:05:59,286
Speaker 1: That contrasting that with say, uh, there's a song you

115
00:05:59,306 --> 00:06:00,896
Speaker 1: did with, I can't remember the name now, but it was,

116
00:06:00,966 --> 00:06:04,066
Speaker 1: it was a song you did with, um, Sergio Mendez,

117
00:06:04,546 --> 00:06:07,216
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like both great songs, but one

118
00:06:07,356 --> 00:06:10,976
Speaker 1: far more sort of complex than the other. And it

119
00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:14,236
Speaker 1: sort of seems like you're able to write to something

120
00:06:14,296 --> 00:06:16,456
Speaker 1: really simple, like pray for you or something a little

121
00:06:16,476 --> 00:06:19,416
Speaker 1: more harmonically, maybe complex. Yeah.

122
00:06:19,476 --> 00:06:24,066
Speaker 3: Pray for you has an interesting, um, progeny because, um,

123
00:06:25,266 --> 00:06:26,406
Speaker 3: It started out.

124
00:06:28,646 --> 00:06:29,716
Speaker 2: In a session with Usher.

125
00:06:30,176 --> 00:06:34,916
Speaker 3: So if you listen to the background vocals, the, oh, hey,

126
00:06:35,376 --> 00:06:38,376
Speaker 3: that's Usher singing those from the original version.

127
00:06:38,076 --> 00:06:38,636
Speaker 2: Of the song.

128
00:06:39,356 --> 00:06:42,896
Speaker 3: And it had basically the same melody that I'm singing now,

129
00:06:43,196 --> 00:06:46,836
Speaker 3: but it had a different beat back then. And we

130
00:06:46,876 --> 00:06:49,316
Speaker 3: changed the lyric to make it feel like it fit

131
00:06:49,736 --> 00:06:51,996
Speaker 3: me and my point of view a little bit more.

132
00:06:53,056 --> 00:06:55,426
Speaker 2: But it started....

133
00:06:55,666 --> 00:06:59,036
Speaker 3: As kind of the bones of that song started in

134
00:06:59,066 --> 00:07:02,436
Speaker 3: an Usher session. And that's why you'll still hear some

135
00:07:02,476 --> 00:07:07,296
Speaker 3: of his backing vocals on it. And then the melody

136
00:07:07,336 --> 00:07:10,976
Speaker 3: was kind of already established in that session. And then

137
00:07:11,636 --> 00:07:15,916
Speaker 3: when we rewrote the lyric, we adhered to that melody still.

138
00:07:15,956 --> 00:07:18,016
Speaker 3: So I didn't really write any of the melodies, but

139
00:07:18,036 --> 00:07:19,516
Speaker 3: I wrote a lot of the lyrics in the new

140
00:07:19,556 --> 00:07:22,806
Speaker 3: version of the song. And that's what you hear in

141
00:07:22,826 --> 00:07:26,966
Speaker 3: the completed version is a lot of my lyrical ideas,

142
00:07:27,006 --> 00:07:30,106
Speaker 3: but a lot of Pharrell's melodic ideas that he wrote.

143
00:07:29,926 --> 00:07:31,046
Speaker 2: To a beat that he created.

144
00:07:31,346 --> 00:07:34,726
Speaker 1: And is that you playing on that? Or is that Pharrell?

145
00:07:34,766 --> 00:07:37,626
Speaker 3: It's me playing at the end of the song, the piano.

146
00:07:38,706 --> 00:07:42,066
Speaker 3: But a lot of the track isn't piano driven. It's,

147
00:07:42,886 --> 00:07:47,976
Speaker 3: you know, the 808 and the bass and some keyboards.

148
00:07:47,456 --> 00:07:50,116
Speaker 2: And things and some strings that I didn't play.

149
00:07:50,376 --> 00:07:50,536
Speaker 3: Yeah.

150
00:07:51,096 --> 00:07:58,356
Speaker 1: It's wild because you're such an adept sort of self-contained.

151
00:07:58,376 --> 00:08:00,156
Speaker 1: You don't need anyone else on the one hand. But

152
00:08:00,176 --> 00:08:02,796
Speaker 1: on the other hand, you are the sort of consummate collaborator.

153
00:08:02,896 --> 00:08:04,016
Speaker 2: Oh, I love collaborating.

154
00:08:04,036 --> 00:08:08,996
Speaker 3: And I think I can do a lot of the

155
00:08:09,196 --> 00:08:13,196
Speaker 3: heavy lifting when it comes to songwriting, playing piano, vocals, obviously.

156
00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:20,306
Speaker 2: But I love collaborating. I love seeing the result of.

157
00:08:20,956 --> 00:08:26,316
Speaker 3: two different energies and two different areas of expertise coming

158
00:08:26,336 --> 00:08:29,076
Speaker 3: in a room together and seeing what we do together,

159
00:08:30,766 --> 00:08:34,026
Speaker 3: it's exciting and interesting. And it gives you the chance

160
00:08:34,126 --> 00:08:38,526
Speaker 3: to renew yourself, I think, in ways that you wouldn't

161
00:08:38,546 --> 00:08:41,246
Speaker 3: always be able to do by yourself. I think having

162
00:08:41,786 --> 00:08:45,366
Speaker 3: new energy to react to and to bounce off of.

163
00:08:46,926 --> 00:08:48,006
Speaker 2: Helps you stay fresh.

164
00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:51,656
Speaker 1: And you have such a style. You have your own

165
00:08:51,936 --> 00:08:55,746
Speaker 1: style as a player. Pharrell also, I mean, I don't

166
00:08:55,766 --> 00:08:58,046
Speaker 1: think he's quite a piano player like you are. But

167
00:08:58,066 --> 00:08:59,746
Speaker 1: he has a style. He has a style, right?

168
00:08:59,786 --> 00:09:00,466
Speaker 2: He definitely has a style.

169
00:09:00,486 --> 00:09:04,786
Speaker 3: I mean, he's been producing massive records for like 30 years.

170
00:09:04,926 --> 00:09:08,306
Speaker 3: And I think people recognize his style when they hear it.

171
00:09:08,706 --> 00:09:10,666
Speaker 3: And that's what you want as a producer. You want

172
00:09:12,086 --> 00:09:15,426
Speaker 3: to have an identity as a producer. And he certainly

173
00:09:15,466 --> 00:09:15,826
Speaker 3: has one.

174
00:09:16,126 --> 00:09:19,566
Speaker 1: Was it interesting to work with someone like fro who

175
00:09:19,606 --> 00:09:23,546
Speaker 1: does have such a um signature almost melodic sort.

176
00:09:23,346 --> 00:09:26,846
Speaker 3: Of uh-huh well i think it's fun because like i

177
00:09:26,886 --> 00:09:29,096
Speaker 3: said i think it gives you gives me the chance

178
00:09:29,136 --> 00:09:31,496
Speaker 3: to do something new even though we'd worked together a

179
00:09:31,536 --> 00:09:34,316
Speaker 3: couple times before we never done anything this thorough and

180
00:09:34,356 --> 00:09:38,416
Speaker 3: deep as a collaboration and uh uh doing an entire

181
00:09:38,496 --> 00:09:41,246
Speaker 3: album with him allowed me to create something that felt

182
00:09:41,366 --> 00:09:43,926
Speaker 3: fresh and different from the rest of my repertoire um

183
00:09:44,026 --> 00:09:47,496
Speaker 3: but still enough connective tissue that it That it didn't

184
00:09:47,536 --> 00:09:51,946
Speaker 3: sound like foreign to my repertoire, but it still sounded

185
00:09:52,006 --> 00:09:56,166
Speaker 3: new and fresh and like a really urgent and necessary

186
00:09:56,286 --> 00:09:57,566
Speaker 3: addition to my repertoire.

187
00:09:57,706 --> 00:10:03,466
Speaker 1: Yeah. At first, was there any trepidation around, well, maybe

188
00:10:03,526 --> 00:10:06,086
Speaker 1: I can't mess with this exact melody.

189
00:10:05,826 --> 00:10:06,356
Speaker 2: That Pharrell did?

190
00:10:07,066 --> 00:10:10,066
Speaker 3: Some people on my label were like, you got to

191
00:10:10,086 --> 00:10:13,046
Speaker 3: be careful with Pharrell because it could sound so much

192
00:10:13,116 --> 00:10:18,536
Speaker 3: like Pharrell that it doesn't sound like you anymore. And

193
00:10:19,176 --> 00:10:22,076
Speaker 3: some people on my team were saying that, but I

194
00:10:22,836 --> 00:10:25,636
Speaker 3: wasn't worried about that. I think I just went in saying,

195
00:10:26,136 --> 00:10:28,366
Speaker 3: we're going to get in the room And we're going

196
00:10:28,386 --> 00:10:29,026
Speaker 3: to figure it out.

197
00:10:29,066 --> 00:10:31,406
Speaker 2: We're going to make it sound great.

198
00:10:32,986 --> 00:10:38,816
Speaker 3: We're like two really experienced, creative people who have a

199
00:10:38,856 --> 00:10:42,256
Speaker 3: track record of making really great music. And how could

200
00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,536
Speaker 3: it not be great? We're going to make something great together.

201
00:10:45,116 --> 00:10:47,976
Speaker 3: And I wasn't really worried about having too much of

202
00:10:48,016 --> 00:10:51,176
Speaker 3: his influence or whatever. I just figured I have so

203
00:10:51,196 --> 00:10:53,076
Speaker 3: much of a point of view that it was going

204
00:10:53,116 --> 00:10:56,106
Speaker 3: to get expressed musically in the album. And I think

205
00:10:56,126 --> 00:10:57,606
Speaker 3: when you listen to it, it sounds like the two

206
00:10:57,666 --> 00:11:01,986
Speaker 3: of us came together instead of one or the other

207
00:11:02,466 --> 00:11:03,546
Speaker 3: taking over creatively.

208
00:11:03,726 --> 00:11:07,366
Speaker 1: And you really feel that happened without too much consternation

209
00:11:07,706 --> 00:11:08,826
Speaker 1: or dialogue even.

210
00:11:08,866 --> 00:11:11,606
Speaker 3: And we had dialogue. We had, you know, like, does

211
00:11:11,626 --> 00:11:13,426
Speaker 3: this work for you? Does this work for you?

212
00:11:13,446 --> 00:11:14,246
Speaker 2: Blah, blah, blah.

213
00:11:14,306 --> 00:11:17,726
Speaker 3: And sometimes we would disagree about, you know, should this

214
00:11:17,786 --> 00:11:22,216
Speaker 3: instrument stay there or should we rewrite this lyric?

215
00:11:23,006 --> 00:11:24,996
Speaker 2: And we figured it out. And my goal was.

216
00:11:25,386 --> 00:11:28,026
Speaker 3: for every record is just let the music win it's

217
00:11:28,046 --> 00:11:31,986
Speaker 3: not about anybody's ego it's not about um it's.

218
00:11:31,976 --> 00:11:35,416
Speaker 2: No like pride in owning.

219
00:11:35,416 --> 00:11:38,096
Speaker 3: The best idea i just want the best idea to

220
00:11:38,156 --> 00:11:43,036
Speaker 3: win um and so um hopefully the evidence is in

221
00:11:43,076 --> 00:11:45,716
Speaker 3: the record that we let the best ideas win what.

222
00:11:45,616 --> 00:11:47,656
Speaker 1: Were some of those conversations i mean was there a

223
00:11:47,676 --> 00:11:52,156
Speaker 1: common denominator between those conversations where where if you're having

224
00:11:52,176 --> 00:11:55,046
Speaker 1: a conversation on a given song about maybe stripping back

225
00:11:55,086 --> 00:11:58,186
Speaker 1: an instrument or adding an instrument or something, was there,

226
00:11:58,386 --> 00:11:59,706
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like a mission statement

227
00:11:59,726 --> 00:12:01,266
Speaker 1: you could go back to and sort of say, well,

228
00:12:01,366 --> 00:12:04,906
Speaker 1: this idea is probably best because it serves what we're

229
00:12:04,946 --> 00:12:05,686
Speaker 1: trying to do?

230
00:12:05,806 --> 00:12:10,406
Speaker 3: Well, I think from the beginning, Pharrell came to me

231
00:12:10,446 --> 00:12:13,356
Speaker 3: with the concept for the album that it would sound

232
00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:19,996
Speaker 3: classic with beautiful orchestration and strings and horns and sound

233
00:12:20,036 --> 00:12:23,376
Speaker 3: like the classics but with 808 beats and like a

234
00:12:23,476 --> 00:12:25,476
Speaker 3: hip hop foundation underneath.

235
00:12:26,176 --> 00:12:29,256
Speaker 2: And I think the only times.

236
00:12:29,276 --> 00:12:36,306
Speaker 3: We really had choices and disagreements were around how much.

237
00:12:36,306 --> 00:12:39,526
Speaker 2: Of the classic side to keep versus.

238
00:12:39,226 --> 00:12:41,686
Speaker 3: Stripping it down a little bit more. So sometimes we

239
00:12:41,726 --> 00:12:46,726
Speaker 3: will have recorded a bunch of horns and we only

240
00:12:46,866 --> 00:12:50,906
Speaker 3: use like 20% of what we recorded on certain songs,

241
00:12:52,126 --> 00:12:56,206
Speaker 3: a bunch of orchestration, and cut it back in certain areas.

242
00:12:57,026 --> 00:13:00,266
Speaker 3: So I think a lot of times that's a lot

243
00:13:00,286 --> 00:13:05,016
Speaker 3: of what producing is, and a lot of what arranging is,

244
00:13:05,216 --> 00:13:07,896
Speaker 3: is not only knowing what to add, but knowing what

245
00:13:07,936 --> 00:13:12,136
Speaker 3: to take away. And so a lot of our conversations were, well,

246
00:13:12,196 --> 00:13:15,116
Speaker 3: does this need to be here? Should we take it

247
00:13:15,176 --> 00:13:17,796
Speaker 3: away and make it sound a little grittier and not

248
00:13:17,856 --> 00:13:23,846
Speaker 3: as pretty, maybe? But more effective because it's grittier and

249
00:13:24,786 --> 00:13:29,146
Speaker 3: in that balance between the hip-hop and the classic, maybe

250
00:13:29,186 --> 00:13:33,466
Speaker 3: hip-hop needs to win a little more sometimes. And so

251
00:13:33,646 --> 00:13:35,866
Speaker 3: these were some of the conversations we were having and

252
00:13:36,586 --> 00:13:38,686
Speaker 3: I'm so pleased with where we landed on every track.

253
00:13:38,726 --> 00:13:41,666
Speaker 2: I think we got the balance right on every track.

254
00:13:42,076 --> 00:13:43,336
Speaker 1: Where were you in the balance?

255
00:13:44,256 --> 00:13:48,376
Speaker 3: It could go either way. But Pharrell's a producer and

256
00:13:48,416 --> 00:13:51,466
Speaker 3: he made the beats so Um, he made the drums

257
00:13:51,586 --> 00:13:54,666
Speaker 3: and the 808s and the, uh, and a lot of

258
00:13:54,706 --> 00:14:00,116
Speaker 3: the kind of, uh, the, um, the foundation for a

259
00:14:00,116 --> 00:14:03,336
Speaker 3: lot of the tracks. And so sometimes he would, you know,

260
00:14:03,376 --> 00:14:06,236
Speaker 3: want us to not distract from that foundation with all

261
00:14:06,256 --> 00:14:09,676
Speaker 3: the pretty sounds. And, you know, eventually, you know, we

262
00:14:09,736 --> 00:14:11,616
Speaker 3: compromise on some of it. We kept some of the

263
00:14:11,636 --> 00:14:13,506
Speaker 3: things I wanted and took away some of the things

264
00:14:13,546 --> 00:14:15,546
Speaker 3: I wanted. And then we finally landed where we needed

265
00:14:15,586 --> 00:14:15,926
Speaker 3: to land.

266
00:14:16,476 --> 00:14:18,736
Speaker 1: I'll say a song like everything feels like to me,

267
00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:24,136
Speaker 1: after having listened a few times, everything started to symbolize the,

268
00:14:24,836 --> 00:14:27,456
Speaker 1: what I started to imagine was the negotiation that might've

269
00:14:27,476 --> 00:14:30,186
Speaker 1: happened on the album because it felt like, and maybe

270
00:14:30,226 --> 00:14:33,766
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but it's such a, it's one of the

271
00:14:33,826 --> 00:14:38,366
Speaker 1: songs that sounds like it could have produced differently, probably

272
00:14:38,386 --> 00:14:41,126
Speaker 1: been on any one of your projects. But then there's

273
00:14:41,146 --> 00:14:44,326
Speaker 1: this like, in this Basquiat kind of fashion, like these

274
00:14:44,346 --> 00:14:46,116
Speaker 1: 808s that will be.

275
00:14:45,746 --> 00:14:50,506
Speaker 3: Like, Well, I loved that song from the beginning because

276
00:14:51,026 --> 00:14:55,626
Speaker 3: it sounded different than just a straight ballad. I liked

277
00:14:55,646 --> 00:15:00,266
Speaker 3: the 808s kind of dirtying it up a bit and

278
00:15:00,326 --> 00:15:04,246
Speaker 3: not making it sound so pristine. I think that was

279
00:15:04,266 --> 00:15:12,096
Speaker 3: what attracted me to it from the beginning. All we

280
00:15:12,296 --> 00:15:14,636
Speaker 3: added on that song, and there was no really debate

281
00:15:14,676 --> 00:15:19,066
Speaker 3: about it, was adding the strings. Pharrell always envisioned that

282
00:15:19,106 --> 00:15:24,246
Speaker 3: song having an orchestral arrangement too. But I think what

283
00:15:24,326 --> 00:15:26,746
Speaker 3: sold me on the song from the beginning was that

284
00:15:26,826 --> 00:15:31,716
Speaker 3: juxtaposition between sounding like a typical John Legend ballad, but

285
00:15:31,816 --> 00:15:33,216
Speaker 3: having the 808s, it felt right.

286
00:15:33,236 --> 00:15:37,176
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really stark, the difference between the two approaches

287
00:15:37,276 --> 00:15:37,776
Speaker 1: on that song.

288
00:15:38,246 --> 00:15:40,426
Speaker 3: It's funny because when I played it for Terrace Martin,

289
00:15:40,506 --> 00:15:44,166
Speaker 3: who was involved in arranging all the horns on the album,

290
00:15:44,506 --> 00:15:47,106
Speaker 3: when I played it for him, he said, this sounds

291
00:15:47,266 --> 00:15:51,766
Speaker 3: like what the thesis was going into the album of

292
00:15:52,226 --> 00:15:55,246
Speaker 3: matching that classic with the 808s.

293
00:15:55,966 --> 00:15:58,026
Speaker 2: He said, this sounds like this is what you guys

294
00:15:58,066 --> 00:15:58,706
Speaker 2: were aiming for.

295
00:15:58,726 --> 00:16:03,686
Speaker 1: Amazing. So how much of that song was done before

296
00:16:03,766 --> 00:16:05,226
Speaker 1: you came to it?

297
00:16:05,746 --> 00:16:08,436
Speaker 3: I only rewrote a little bit of the lyric and

298
00:16:08,816 --> 00:16:12,036
Speaker 3: Pharrell wrote most of it. And this happened right after

299
00:16:12,056 --> 00:16:14,916
Speaker 3: the fires here. So you listen to the lyric. You know,

300
00:16:14,956 --> 00:16:16,856
Speaker 3: I live in Los Angeles, but he was living in

301
00:16:16,916 --> 00:16:20,496
Speaker 3: Paris and still is. But he was watching the news

302
00:16:20,596 --> 00:16:22,696
Speaker 3: and a lot of his friends live here in Los Angeles.

303
00:16:23,456 --> 00:16:25,796
Speaker 3: And he wrote a song where the first verse is

304
00:16:25,836 --> 00:16:27,196
Speaker 3: really talking.

305
00:16:26,986 --> 00:16:29,256
Speaker 2: About the mountains being on fire.

306
00:16:28,826 --> 00:16:33,046
Speaker 3: And losing one's home and but still having the love

307
00:16:33,086 --> 00:16:36,436
Speaker 3: of your life and and knowing how important that is

308
00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:37,856
Speaker 3: beyond any material things.

309
00:16:38,896 --> 00:16:40,276
Speaker 2: And so he wrote that idea.

310
00:16:40,796 --> 00:16:44,196
Speaker 3: And in some ways, I was hesitant to put it

311
00:16:44,296 --> 00:16:46,696
Speaker 3: out at that time, because he was like, man, we

312
00:16:46,716 --> 00:16:48,616
Speaker 3: should just put it out now, because it's so timely.

313
00:16:49,116 --> 00:16:51,696
Speaker 2: And I was like, you know, it feels so raw

314
00:16:51,836 --> 00:16:53,696
Speaker 2: in LA, like, because I live here.

315
00:16:53,716 --> 00:16:57,536
Speaker 3: And everything feels so raw, that I didn't want to

316
00:16:57,556 --> 00:17:00,116
Speaker 3: feel like we were exploiting the tragedy here.

317
00:17:01,296 --> 00:17:03,546
Speaker 2: But I figured if the song.

318
00:17:04,286 --> 00:17:07,026
Speaker 3: worked it should work at any time and and shouldn't

319
00:17:07,086 --> 00:17:10,976
Speaker 3: need to come out um right after the fires happen

320
00:17:11,596 --> 00:17:13,936
Speaker 3: um and i think the song still works and uh

321
00:17:14,316 --> 00:17:15,576
Speaker 3: it feels timeless.

322
00:17:15,456 --> 00:17:17,406
Speaker 1: Yeah it does because in the context of the album

323
00:17:17,886 --> 00:17:20,486
Speaker 1: now that you say that of course that could eat

324
00:17:20,546 --> 00:17:22,886
Speaker 1: very of course that's the genesis or you know i

325
00:17:22,986 --> 00:17:24,846
Speaker 1: can see how that could be the genesis but in

326
00:17:24,866 --> 00:17:28,796
Speaker 1: the context of the album it doesn't sound tied to

327
00:17:28,836 --> 00:17:30,406
Speaker 1: any particular current event.

328
00:17:30,556 --> 00:17:32,906
Speaker 3: I love that it feels timeless still, even though we

329
00:17:32,946 --> 00:17:35,186
Speaker 3: were writing it in a moment that it was inspired

330
00:17:35,246 --> 00:17:39,306
Speaker 3: directly by that moment. I had friends who lost their homes,

331
00:17:40,666 --> 00:17:44,966
Speaker 3: visited communities where their homes were lost, visited firemen who

332
00:17:45,006 --> 00:17:48,486
Speaker 3: were in the trenches. And so all that was so

333
00:17:48,566 --> 00:17:53,466
Speaker 3: raw to this whole community. And what I hoped was

334
00:17:53,506 --> 00:17:56,026
Speaker 3: that the song didn't need to be tied to that

335
00:17:56,066 --> 00:17:59,306
Speaker 3: time and that it could feel timeless and classic.

336
00:17:59,646 --> 00:18:00,926
Speaker 2: And I think we accomplished that.

337
00:18:01,126 --> 00:18:03,526
Speaker 1: Definitely did. Definitely did. So take me back to the

338
00:18:03,586 --> 00:18:08,826
Speaker 1: genesis of the whole thing. You mentioned it was Pharrell's idea.

339
00:18:08,846 --> 00:18:11,166
Speaker 1: And I should also say that the album has been

340
00:18:11,806 --> 00:18:15,146
Speaker 1: done for a while. So you've been living with it.

341
00:18:15,266 --> 00:18:17,746
Speaker 3: So most of the album has been done. We mixed

342
00:18:17,846 --> 00:18:22,856
Speaker 3: it back in the late spring. But the recording all

343
00:18:22,916 --> 00:18:24,096
Speaker 3: happened basically in 2025.

344
00:18:24,076 --> 00:18:24,616
Speaker 2: So very little of it.

345
00:18:26,436 --> 00:18:30,936
Speaker 3: Happened in 2026. And so we've been sitting on it

346
00:18:30,976 --> 00:18:32,996
Speaker 3: for a while. It feels like a secret, you know?

347
00:18:33,416 --> 00:18:35,276
Speaker 1: It's kind of cool. I mean, it's a luxury in

348
00:18:35,296 --> 00:18:36,296
Speaker 1: a way to have, you know.

349
00:18:36,396 --> 00:18:38,856
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we just wanted to get everything in order.

350
00:18:38,936 --> 00:18:43,126
Speaker 3: I changed management during that time. And I just wanted

351
00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:47,246
Speaker 3: to make sure that the machine that would be responsible

352
00:18:47,286 --> 00:18:52,426
Speaker 3: for marketing, it was a well-oiled machine and ready to execute.

353
00:18:53,186 --> 00:18:55,186
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to waste this music and not

354
00:18:55,246 --> 00:18:58,886
Speaker 3: have everything on the business side in order before we

355
00:18:58,906 --> 00:19:02,126
Speaker 3: did it. So we waited to get everything right before

356
00:19:02,506 --> 00:19:08,406
Speaker 3: we tried to release it. It started back in December 2024.

357
00:19:08,406 --> 00:19:14,306
Speaker 3: Pharrell called me. He calls me very early because he

358
00:19:14,346 --> 00:19:18,216
Speaker 3: lives in Paris and I live nine hours before him

359
00:19:18,356 --> 00:19:21,096
Speaker 3: earlier than him so you know when it's uh noon

360
00:19:21,136 --> 00:19:25,136
Speaker 3: his time it's 3 a.m here um and uh he

361
00:19:25,176 --> 00:19:28,196
Speaker 3: called me probably like 4 or 5 a.m la time

362
00:19:28,636 --> 00:19:30,496
Speaker 3: and i did not pick up but i i called

363
00:19:30,516 --> 00:19:34,866
Speaker 3: him back when i woke up and um he said

364
00:19:34,966 --> 00:19:38,106
Speaker 3: what are you working on man i i i'm so

365
00:19:38,166 --> 00:19:42,206
Speaker 3: inspired by your voice and he was really reacting to

366
00:19:42,246 --> 00:19:45,226
Speaker 3: what i had done on um uh birds don't sing

367
00:19:45,266 --> 00:19:48,576
Speaker 3: the song we did with clips and um That song

368
00:19:49,056 --> 00:19:52,886
Speaker 3: was the opening song on their comeback album. Um, and

369
00:19:53,206 --> 00:19:56,986
Speaker 3: it was really meaningful to clips themselves, but also to

370
00:19:57,026 --> 00:20:00,686
Speaker 3: Pharrell and, um, he was like man i'm just so

371
00:20:00,746 --> 00:20:02,166
Speaker 3: inspired by your voice i want to do a whole

372
00:20:02,266 --> 00:20:03,586
Speaker 3: album with you what are you doing what are you

373
00:20:03,606 --> 00:20:06,516
Speaker 3: working on when are you coming to paris uh can

374
00:20:06,536 --> 00:20:08,196
Speaker 3: you just come here and camp out and we make

375
00:20:08,236 --> 00:20:10,856
Speaker 3: an album together and i was like you know uh

376
00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:13,176
Speaker 3: i have a home i have four kids i can't

377
00:20:13,196 --> 00:20:17,006
Speaker 3: really like just live in paris um I don't know.

378
00:20:17,026 --> 00:20:21,156
Speaker 1: Wife and kids might not mind so much.

379
00:20:21,576 --> 00:20:23,276
Speaker 3: But I said, I will be coming out there in

380
00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:27,236
Speaker 3: January of 2025.

381
00:20:27,656 --> 00:20:28,336
Speaker 1: Only a month later.

382
00:20:28,356 --> 00:20:29,406
Speaker 2: Yeah, a month later.

383
00:20:29,996 --> 00:20:33,166
Speaker 3: And maybe we could spend a few days working together then,

384
00:20:33,206 --> 00:20:36,106
Speaker 3: and then we'll see how it goes and then decide

385
00:20:36,126 --> 00:20:38,086
Speaker 3: what we're going to do from there. So it started

386
00:20:38,126 --> 00:20:42,996
Speaker 3: with that. And then he sent me Daylight, so our

387
00:20:43,036 --> 00:20:46,666
Speaker 3: first single. He sent me a version of that that

388
00:20:46,866 --> 00:20:49,156
Speaker 3: I rewrote a little bit, but it was basically the

389
00:20:49,196 --> 00:20:52,456
Speaker 3: song that it is now when he sent it to me.

390
00:20:52,496 --> 00:20:53,916
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, wow, this is.

391
00:20:53,916 --> 00:20:56,936
Speaker 3: Like we're off to a good start before we even

392
00:20:56,976 --> 00:21:01,176
Speaker 3: started writing together. And I recorded a version of Daylight

393
00:21:01,536 --> 00:21:03,936
Speaker 3: here in L.A. And then I went to Paris and

394
00:21:03,976 --> 00:21:06,646
Speaker 3: we wrote a few new songs together. We wrote, I think,

395
00:21:06,786 --> 00:21:10,126
Speaker 3: Next Time during that session. We did Muse together during

396
00:21:10,166 --> 00:21:13,026
Speaker 3: that session and a couple other tracks that made the album.

397
00:21:13,466 --> 00:21:15,806
Speaker 2: And then I went back home.

398
00:21:16,386 --> 00:21:17,946
Speaker 3: Then I came back to Paris and we did some

399
00:21:17,986 --> 00:21:20,446
Speaker 3: more writing. We did some sessions via Zoom.

400
00:21:21,646 --> 00:21:22,646
Speaker 2: Me here in L.A.

401
00:21:22,826 --> 00:21:26,456
Speaker 3: At my studio and him there in Paris. Him being

402
00:21:26,496 --> 00:21:29,836
Speaker 3: in Paris means at the Louis Vuitton offices. They built

403
00:21:29,896 --> 00:21:33,316
Speaker 3: a studio there in the offices. So he's the creative

404
00:21:33,356 --> 00:21:37,796
Speaker 3: director for the men at Louis Vuitton. And you walk

405
00:21:37,816 --> 00:21:40,716
Speaker 3: through all the design team. They're all creating sketches and

406
00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:41,256
Speaker 3: all these things.

407
00:21:41,696 --> 00:21:43,476
Speaker 2: And then you go to the end of the.

408
00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:49,176
Speaker 3: Hall and there's this music studio where Pharrell creates.

409
00:21:49,316 --> 00:21:51,676
Speaker 2: And does he always work?

410
00:21:52,156 --> 00:21:54,256
Speaker 3: I think he's always going back and forth between being

411
00:21:54,276 --> 00:21:57,636
Speaker 3: a musician and being a fashion designer.

412
00:21:57,736 --> 00:22:03,336
Speaker 2: And what a creative space he's created. Beautiful view of

413
00:22:03,376 --> 00:22:05,336
Speaker 2: the Seine River in front of you.

414
00:22:06,356 --> 00:22:10,886
Speaker 3: And it's an inspiring place to make music or create anything,

415
00:22:10,946 --> 00:22:11,206
Speaker 3: I think.

416
00:22:11,556 --> 00:22:11,836
Speaker 4: Wild.

417
00:22:12,416 --> 00:22:14,616
Speaker 1: So had this been something you guys had even previewed

418
00:22:14,636 --> 00:22:16,956
Speaker 1: with each other before, talked about as a possibility?

419
00:22:16,976 --> 00:22:18,036
Speaker 2: Well, we had worked together before.

420
00:22:18,056 --> 00:22:21,726
Speaker 3: We wrote a song together called It's Over for my

421
00:22:21,736 --> 00:22:24,746
Speaker 3: Evolver album. And we wrote another song together during that

422
00:22:24,806 --> 00:22:28,546
Speaker 3: time called Aim High. I didn't use it on Evolver.

423
00:22:28,986 --> 00:22:32,426
Speaker 3: I ended up using it as a bonus track on

424
00:22:32,466 --> 00:22:36,066
Speaker 3: Love in the Future. And so we'd written together a

425
00:22:36,106 --> 00:22:39,526
Speaker 3: little bit before, but never spent a whole lot.

426
00:22:39,426 --> 00:22:40,186
Speaker 2: Of time together.

427
00:22:40,206 --> 00:22:42,876
Speaker 3: And we'd known each other for couple of decades, but

428
00:22:43,196 --> 00:22:45,676
Speaker 3: never really like dug in and, and, and worked on

429
00:22:45,696 --> 00:22:46,856
Speaker 3: a full project together.

430
00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:50,416
Speaker 2: And, uh, so this was a new thing to do.

431
00:22:51,076 --> 00:22:53,536
Speaker 3: Um, I had been signed to Kanye's production company for

432
00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:56,776
Speaker 3: most of the beginning of my career. So anytime I

433
00:22:56,816 --> 00:22:59,176
Speaker 3: was working deeply with one producer back then, it was

434
00:22:59,236 --> 00:23:03,016
Speaker 3: usually with Kanye. And then, uh, I'd worked with, um,

435
00:23:03,056 --> 00:23:07,526
Speaker 3: Blake Mills on darkness and light work with Sufjan Stevens on, um,

436
00:23:07,826 --> 00:23:11,686
Speaker 3: my children's album. I worked with, uh, Amir and the

437
00:23:11,766 --> 00:23:14,546
Speaker 3: roots for wake up. And so I'd done kind of

438
00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:19,876
Speaker 3: full albums with one producer before, um, but, um, never

439
00:23:19,916 --> 00:23:23,036
Speaker 3: with Pharrell. And, uh, it was exciting as an idea.

440
00:23:23,076 --> 00:23:27,996
Speaker 3: It felt like we could do something fresh and, and exciting, um, together. And,

441
00:23:28,196 --> 00:23:32,486
Speaker 3: and I was so into what he was doing with clips. And, uh,

442
00:23:32,586 --> 00:23:34,926
Speaker 3: I just felt like, uh, this was the right time

443
00:23:34,966 --> 00:23:35,906
Speaker 3: for us to do this together.

444
00:23:36,086 --> 00:23:38,366
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's what you're going, you mentioned your

445
00:23:38,386 --> 00:23:41,686
Speaker 1: collaborations with Kanye, um, And when I first was listening

446
00:23:41,706 --> 00:23:43,166
Speaker 1: to this record, I was like, wow, this really is

447
00:23:44,106 --> 00:23:49,426
Speaker 1: like a left turn or just a different sort of.

448
00:23:49,486 --> 00:23:50,446
Speaker 2: It sounds new, yeah.

449
00:23:50,586 --> 00:23:52,966
Speaker 1: But then I started listening to it more and I

450
00:23:52,986 --> 00:23:54,866
Speaker 1: started thinking just about all... And I started listening back

451
00:23:54,886 --> 00:23:57,456
Speaker 1: to all your other projects as well. In some ways,

452
00:23:57,796 --> 00:24:00,416
Speaker 1: it's like the inverse of your very first project where

453
00:24:00,456 --> 00:24:05,636
Speaker 1: that one felt like you are the sort of... artist

454
00:24:05,696 --> 00:24:07,876
Speaker 1: in the mold of like a r & b singer

455
00:24:07,916 --> 00:24:11,336
Speaker 1: songwriter um classic you know it's classic sort of r &

456
00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:14,336
Speaker 1: b that had this that had like you know that

457
00:24:14,376 --> 00:24:18,596
Speaker 1: was then produced to sound of the time you know and.

458
00:24:18,576 --> 00:24:21,616
Speaker 3: It was like and it was a both i think

459
00:24:21,716 --> 00:24:25,996
Speaker 3: both get lifted and this album have some similarities in

460
00:24:26,016 --> 00:24:29,726
Speaker 3: the sense that there's like hip-hop drums and a hip-hop

461
00:24:29,776 --> 00:24:36,296
Speaker 3: kind of uh foundation but uh soul songwriting and classic

462
00:24:36,336 --> 00:24:40,276
Speaker 3: songwriting that's meant to be timeless. I just think Kanye's

463
00:24:40,316 --> 00:24:42,816
Speaker 3: version of what hip-hop drums sound like is different.

464
00:24:42,496 --> 00:24:45,356
Speaker 2: From Pharrell's version. Pharrell's version is a.

465
00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:51,106
Speaker 3: Little more 808s and a little more electronic sounding, and

466
00:24:51,186 --> 00:24:54,326
Speaker 3: Kanye's were more like sample drum loops and things of

467
00:24:54,386 --> 00:24:58,966
Speaker 3: that nature back then. So I think there's some similarities,

468
00:24:58,986 --> 00:25:03,546
Speaker 3: but also Pharrell has such a sonic signature that you

469
00:25:03,566 --> 00:25:06,256
Speaker 3: can hear that And that's what makes it different from

470
00:25:06,296 --> 00:25:07,276
Speaker 3: any other producers.

471
00:25:07,536 --> 00:25:07,776
Speaker 2: Totally.

472
00:25:07,796 --> 00:25:09,886
Speaker 1: And because of that, the difference between them, it sounds

473
00:25:10,166 --> 00:25:14,166
Speaker 1: much more like these were songs, like current modern songs

474
00:25:14,286 --> 00:25:19,886
Speaker 1: where you're adding classic elements and Get Lifted felt almost

475
00:25:19,926 --> 00:25:21,666
Speaker 1: like the inverse of that, the opposite of that, which

476
00:25:21,686 --> 00:25:23,286
Speaker 1: was like, these are these classic songs and let's add

477
00:25:23,306 --> 00:25:25,266
Speaker 1: some hip hop, you know, and how much hip hop

478
00:25:25,286 --> 00:25:26,046
Speaker 1: can we add.

479
00:25:25,986 --> 00:25:27,606
Speaker 2: Or, you know. Yeah.

480
00:25:27,806 --> 00:25:31,946
Speaker 3: And either way, I think it's cool to work with

481
00:25:32,366 --> 00:25:35,626
Speaker 3: these kinds of producers that have that lean a different

482
00:25:35,646 --> 00:25:38,976
Speaker 3: way than I would lean personally because it pushes me

483
00:25:39,376 --> 00:25:44,856
Speaker 3: and it adds flavor to what I would do in

484
00:25:44,896 --> 00:25:45,496
Speaker 3: a way that.

485
00:25:45,456 --> 00:25:47,096
Speaker 2: I think makes the record better.

486
00:25:47,376 --> 00:25:52,136
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. So you said this record started with Daylight. Mm-hmm.

487
00:25:52,176 --> 00:25:53,556
Speaker 1: Do you remember how it came to you?

488
00:25:53,916 --> 00:25:56,406
Speaker 3: He sent me a demo of it. He sent me

489
00:25:56,446 --> 00:26:00,366
Speaker 3: a demo and it was in Sam Henshaw's voice. Sam

490
00:26:00,406 --> 00:26:04,076
Speaker 3: Henshaw is a singer and songwriter from the U.K., um,

491
00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:09,256
Speaker 3: Afro British guy. And, uh, he, um, sang a beautiful

492
00:26:09,316 --> 00:26:11,576
Speaker 3: version of it. So it already set the bar high.

493
00:26:11,616 --> 00:26:14,626
Speaker 3: I'm like, let me not fuck this up. Um, and

494
00:26:14,826 --> 00:26:18,486
Speaker 3: I changed a couple of lines, uh, particularly in the hook, um,

495
00:26:19,246 --> 00:26:20,846
Speaker 3: and a couple of lines in the verse.

496
00:26:21,586 --> 00:26:24,706
Speaker 2: And, uh, and then I sang it and, uh, it.

497
00:26:24,686 --> 00:26:28,296
Speaker 3: Felt really good. It felt, um, like it was already

498
00:26:28,336 --> 00:26:30,576
Speaker 3: like a single. I was like, man, this could be

499
00:26:30,776 --> 00:26:33,486
Speaker 3: out right now. And I'd be excited that this was

500
00:26:33,506 --> 00:26:36,586
Speaker 3: the first song of this project. And it ended up

501
00:26:36,626 --> 00:26:38,506
Speaker 3: being the first song for the project. But, you know,

502
00:26:38,906 --> 00:26:41,896
Speaker 3: like 18 months later. Did they send a chart over

503
00:26:41,956 --> 00:26:43,836
Speaker 3: or did you just sit down with it? Oh, no

504
00:26:43,916 --> 00:26:49,036
Speaker 3: one sends charts. I'm not not in our genre. I

505
00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:51,356
Speaker 3: don't know if other genres send charts, but we don't

506
00:26:51,376 --> 00:26:55,696
Speaker 3: send charts. Everything's really basically by ear and and you

507
00:26:55,736 --> 00:26:58,416
Speaker 3: hear it and they'll send like a lyric sheet over.

508
00:26:58,496 --> 00:26:59,036
Speaker 2: But that's it.

509
00:26:59,336 --> 00:27:04,716
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned earlier that a lot of the

510
00:27:04,736 --> 00:27:08,496
Speaker 1: songs are less piano forward than your other ones. Is

511
00:27:08,536 --> 00:27:10,996
Speaker 1: that one that you'll be able to tour and do

512
00:27:11,036 --> 00:27:12,156
Speaker 1: it in the same manner?

513
00:27:12,176 --> 00:27:12,416
Speaker 2: Oh, sure.

514
00:27:12,476 --> 00:27:15,076
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll tour with the full band for this album,

515
00:27:15,136 --> 00:27:18,726
Speaker 3: so we'll be able to represent the full arrangements on

516
00:27:18,736 --> 00:27:19,246
Speaker 3: the tracks.

517
00:27:19,726 --> 00:27:21,546
Speaker 1: Will you be playing with them, though? Did you have

518
00:27:21,566 --> 00:27:22,866
Speaker 1: to learn them? Oh, yeah.

519
00:27:22,926 --> 00:27:29,226
Speaker 2: I mean, that's part of the arrangement on the song.

520
00:27:37,386 --> 00:27:40,126
Speaker 3: So that'll be in the performance of the song and

521
00:27:40,166 --> 00:27:41,266
Speaker 3: it's on the record too.

522
00:27:43,086 --> 00:27:47,146
Speaker 2: And, you know, it'll be a full arrangement on tour.

523
00:27:47,826 --> 00:27:50,426
Speaker 3: And I play piano on just about every track, at

524
00:27:50,466 --> 00:27:52,106
Speaker 3: least a little bit of piano on every track.

525
00:27:52,846 --> 00:27:55,176
Speaker 1: Get Back to Bodies on the Floor is a great

526
00:27:55,216 --> 00:27:59,476
Speaker 1: stretch of the album. It's like really strong.

527
00:27:59,556 --> 00:28:03,336
Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets very, I think we wanted the whole

528
00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:07,656
Speaker 3: album to feel cinematic and particularly that part of the album.

529
00:28:08,816 --> 00:28:11,896
Speaker 3: When Pharrell pitched the idea of the album to me,

530
00:28:12,336 --> 00:28:13,976
Speaker 3: he was like, I want to make some Black James

531
00:28:14,056 --> 00:28:16,856
Speaker 3: Bond shit. And I feel like Get Back is like

532
00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:22,026
Speaker 3: the quintessential Black James Bond record. And then a lot

533
00:28:22,046 --> 00:28:25,446
Speaker 3: of the storytelling in the heart of the album that

534
00:28:25,486 --> 00:28:30,466
Speaker 3: starts with Get Back is that kind of intrigue and

535
00:28:30,486 --> 00:28:34,166
Speaker 3: the ups and downs of a relationship And it feels

536
00:28:34,186 --> 00:28:36,186
Speaker 3: like the stakes are high and there's a lot of

537
00:28:36,306 --> 00:28:39,876
Speaker 3: urgency and bodies on the floor kind of culminates that

538
00:28:39,916 --> 00:28:45,776
Speaker 3: with this war, uh, metaphor, um, uh, for a relationship. Uh,

539
00:28:45,936 --> 00:28:50,056
Speaker 3: and really I was watching, uh, mob land this, the

540
00:28:50,156 --> 00:28:53,226
Speaker 3: paramount plus show when I wrote the lyric for bodies

541
00:28:53,286 --> 00:28:56,846
Speaker 3: on the floor. And I was just envisioning like this

542
00:28:56,986 --> 00:29:03,726
Speaker 3: cycle of retribution and violence and, and, um, nobody really

543
00:29:03,806 --> 00:29:07,066
Speaker 3: winning because, uh, everybody gets harmed when it comes down

544
00:29:07,106 --> 00:29:11,286
Speaker 3: to that. And, uh, and then applying that to this

545
00:29:11,346 --> 00:29:13,996
Speaker 3: relationship that we're exploring in the whole.

546
00:29:13,976 --> 00:29:17,056
Speaker 2: Album, which is a, is it a toxic relationship?

547
00:29:17,576 --> 00:29:18,356
Speaker 4: Yeah.

548
00:29:18,856 --> 00:29:22,836
Speaker 3: You know, like, uh, get back is like her cheating

549
00:29:23,056 --> 00:29:25,936
Speaker 3: on another guy to be with you and then going

550
00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:30,616
Speaker 3: back to him. And then, uh, Under the Bridge is

551
00:29:30,696 --> 00:29:36,486
Speaker 3: about two people betraying each other and kind of one-upping

552
00:29:36,546 --> 00:29:43,006
Speaker 3: each other with revenge and asking for forgiveness. And then

553
00:29:43,026 --> 00:29:47,006
Speaker 3: Next Time is kind of exploring the possibility that in

554
00:29:47,066 --> 00:29:50,936
Speaker 3: another life you could get back together. and then bodies

555
00:29:50,996 --> 00:29:55,316
Speaker 3: on the floor is like fuck it we probably shouldn't

556
00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:59,436
Speaker 3: we probably shouldn't do this I'm tired of fighting but

557
00:29:59,456 --> 00:30:00,556
Speaker 3: then at the end of it it's.

558
00:30:00,516 --> 00:30:03,976
Speaker 2: Like all is fair in love and war what am.

559
00:30:03,936 --> 00:30:06,676
Speaker 3: I still jealous for I let you leave but I

560
00:30:06,716 --> 00:30:09,246
Speaker 3: can't let you go Is there someone else?

561
00:30:09,326 --> 00:30:10,166
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to know.

562
00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:13,696
Speaker 3: Can't see those hands on your body. Is it the

563
00:30:13,756 --> 00:30:16,536
Speaker 3: me or nobody? But is the good worth the bad?

564
00:30:16,596 --> 00:30:18,476
Speaker 3: Do I miss what we had so much that I need.

565
00:30:18,396 --> 00:30:22,566
Speaker 2: It right back? Late night call. Do you miss me

566
00:30:22,606 --> 00:30:22,966
Speaker 2: at all?

567
00:30:24,406 --> 00:30:24,746
Speaker 4: It's like.

568
00:30:26,366 --> 00:30:27,666
Speaker 2: You know, it's intriguing.

569
00:30:27,906 --> 00:30:29,406
Speaker 1: You might have to star in your musical. I was

570
00:30:29,466 --> 00:30:31,386
Speaker 1: going to say that. I don't know how far along

571
00:30:31,426 --> 00:30:33,846
Speaker 1: you are into that thing, but you might need to

572
00:30:33,946 --> 00:30:36,216
Speaker 1: be on top of that.

573
00:30:36,236 --> 00:30:38,376
Speaker 3: But yeah, I love the storytelling in it because it

574
00:30:38,636 --> 00:30:40,676
Speaker 3: feels like the stakes are high and there's a lot

575
00:30:40,696 --> 00:30:42,976
Speaker 3: of like urgency and.

576
00:30:44,036 --> 00:30:46,266
Speaker 2: I feel like it leaves the audience wondering what happens next.

577
00:30:46,746 --> 00:30:47,046
Speaker 3: Yeah.

578
00:30:47,126 --> 00:30:48,966
Speaker 1: And it's such a classic, like, I mean, you brought

579
00:30:49,006 --> 00:30:51,506
Speaker 1: up Usher before, like confessions as like a concept. I mean,

580
00:30:51,546 --> 00:30:53,186
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it holds up to this day.

581
00:30:53,206 --> 00:30:54,596
Speaker 1: You listen to that and you're just like, Oh my God.

582
00:30:54,606 --> 00:30:54,846
Speaker 4: Yeah.

583
00:30:54,866 --> 00:30:56,626
Speaker 2: I think people got wrapped up in the story.

584
00:30:56,646 --> 00:30:56,726
Speaker 3: Yeah.

585
00:30:56,926 --> 00:30:59,666
Speaker 1: Yeah. Although I guess, thankfully for you on, on, on

586
00:30:59,686 --> 00:31:01,706
Speaker 1: this one, it's, it's, uh, you were able to write

587
00:31:01,786 --> 00:31:04,466
Speaker 1: maybe more just from, uh, uh, I don't know if

588
00:31:04,506 --> 00:31:06,026
Speaker 1: it was probably not about someone else, but you were

589
00:31:06,046 --> 00:31:07,666
Speaker 1: able to write from a detached.

590
00:31:08,046 --> 00:31:08,376
Speaker 2: Yeah.

591
00:31:08,456 --> 00:31:11,566
Speaker 3: I feel like, Us doing it together and both of

592
00:31:11,646 --> 00:31:14,046
Speaker 3: us having a lot to do with the songwriting allowed

593
00:31:14,086 --> 00:31:14,706
Speaker 3: us to kind of.

594
00:31:16,286 --> 00:31:18,486
Speaker 2: Have a little bit of creative distance from it in

595
00:31:18,526 --> 00:31:18,846
Speaker 2: a way.

596
00:31:18,926 --> 00:31:20,806
Speaker 3: Like, I feel like we were kind of writing a

597
00:31:20,866 --> 00:31:24,086
Speaker 3: movie together and writing the soundtrack to the movie together.

598
00:31:24,676 --> 00:31:27,256
Speaker 3: And both of us are in, I'm not going to

599
00:31:27,296 --> 00:31:30,476
Speaker 3: speak for Pharrell, but what I assume are stable relationships.

600
00:31:31,396 --> 00:31:32,496
Speaker 2: We have four kids.

601
00:31:32,576 --> 00:31:35,096
Speaker 3: Each of us have four kids and, you know, we're family, man.

602
00:31:35,656 --> 00:31:39,606
Speaker 3: And my relationship with Chrissy has nowhere near the level

603
00:31:39,626 --> 00:31:43,706
Speaker 3: of ups and downs that this couple in our album has.

604
00:31:44,046 --> 00:31:50,246
Speaker 3: But we wanted to be creative and cinematic. And I

605
00:31:50,286 --> 00:31:52,726
Speaker 3: felt like the storytelling needed to feel cinematic, too.

606
00:31:53,126 --> 00:31:55,386
Speaker 1: Was that something you had to preview for your wife?

607
00:31:55,806 --> 00:31:58,706
Speaker 2: I told her, don't take this personally.

608
00:32:00,776 --> 00:32:02,416
Speaker 1: Listen, we wrote some songs. They're not about.

609
00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:03,876
Speaker 2: I was like, she'll know.

610
00:32:03,936 --> 00:32:06,116
Speaker 3: She knows it's not about us because it doesn't sound

611
00:32:06,156 --> 00:32:07,956
Speaker 3: like anything we're going through.

612
00:32:08,856 --> 00:32:09,896
Speaker 2: And so she knows that.

613
00:32:09,976 --> 00:32:13,246
Speaker 3: But it's interesting because obviously I've written songs about us

614
00:32:13,326 --> 00:32:16,326
Speaker 3: and our relationship. Very famously, all of me, I wrote

615
00:32:16,366 --> 00:32:18,666
Speaker 3: when we got engaged and we're about to get married.

616
00:32:19,386 --> 00:32:21,726
Speaker 2: And she has been my muse for a lot of

617
00:32:21,766 --> 00:32:22,266
Speaker 2: my career.

618
00:32:23,046 --> 00:32:26,006
Speaker 3: Um, but naming an album Muse and then it not

619
00:32:26,046 --> 00:32:27,486
Speaker 3: being about her is interesting.

620
00:32:28,326 --> 00:32:30,946
Speaker 1: It's interesting.

621
00:32:30,966 --> 00:32:35,726
Speaker 3: It's a choice, um, that, you know, I had to explain, but, uh, okay, well,

622
00:32:35,766 --> 00:32:38,866
Speaker 3: when did Muse, when did Muse enter the equation as

623
00:32:38,906 --> 00:32:40,266
Speaker 3: like a, cause that.

624
00:32:40,186 --> 00:32:44,186
Speaker 1: Sort of becomes the, the, the, the spine, I guess.

625
00:32:44,246 --> 00:32:47,546
Speaker 3: And we, we, we recorded the song before we knew

626
00:32:47,586 --> 00:32:48,746
Speaker 3: that that was the album title.

627
00:32:49,346 --> 00:32:51,106
Speaker 2: Um, we had some other ideas for the album.

628
00:32:50,926 --> 00:32:53,926
Speaker 3: Title, but, uh, Muse is what we settled on because

629
00:32:54,006 --> 00:32:57,026
Speaker 3: it did feel like we were following this story of

630
00:32:57,066 --> 00:33:02,626
Speaker 3: the artist and his muse throughout. And then we looked up,

631
00:33:02,726 --> 00:33:06,006
Speaker 3: you know, the history of the term muse. And, you know,

632
00:33:06,186 --> 00:33:12,046
Speaker 3: in Greek mythology, these nine goddesses who inspired everything, art, culture, science,

633
00:33:13,136 --> 00:33:15,416
Speaker 3: each of them were kind of responsible for a different

634
00:33:15,476 --> 00:33:20,496
Speaker 3: discipline in Greek mythology. And we just thought about, you know,

635
00:33:20,536 --> 00:33:24,436
Speaker 3: making this album in Paris with, you know, with fashion

636
00:33:24,476 --> 00:33:28,736
Speaker 3: design happening down the hall and looking out on, you know,

637
00:33:29,496 --> 00:33:31,976
Speaker 3: the beauty of this city with all this art and

638
00:33:32,036 --> 00:33:35,476
Speaker 3: architecture and all these amazing things. Muse just felt like

639
00:33:35,756 --> 00:33:38,176
Speaker 3: it captured the spirit and the energy of the album

640
00:33:38,196 --> 00:33:38,616
Speaker 3: really well.

641
00:33:39,096 --> 00:33:42,156
Speaker 2: And we opened the album with that track Muse.

642
00:33:42,496 --> 00:33:46,116
Speaker 3: And then we follow the artist and his muse throughout

643
00:33:46,176 --> 00:33:49,246
Speaker 3: the album. And I felt like that was the way

644
00:33:49,286 --> 00:33:52,826
Speaker 3: to capture what this album meant and the energy of

645
00:33:52,866 --> 00:33:53,286
Speaker 3: the album.

646
00:33:53,566 --> 00:33:56,646
Speaker 1: You then sequenced the tracks around that sort of.

647
00:33:57,146 --> 00:33:57,506
Speaker 2: We.

648
00:33:57,406 --> 00:34:01,226
Speaker 3: Sequenced the tracks before we decided the album was called Muse.

649
00:34:01,606 --> 00:34:04,726
Speaker 3: But it just all made sense. The sequencing made sense

650
00:34:05,806 --> 00:34:09,166
Speaker 3: with the storyline. And then the album title made sense

651
00:34:09,546 --> 00:34:09,946
Speaker 3: as well.

652
00:34:10,206 --> 00:34:13,346
Speaker 1: Yeah. You were talking about being in Paris and Pharrell's

653
00:34:13,436 --> 00:34:17,686
Speaker 1: studio in... The Louis Vuitton office and this design happening.

654
00:34:18,306 --> 00:34:21,976
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear about Pharrell being the creative director

655
00:34:21,996 --> 00:34:25,436
Speaker 1: of Louis Vuitton. But how is it actually like seeing that?

656
00:34:25,496 --> 00:34:27,576
Speaker 1: I mean, even for you, I imagine who, you know,

657
00:34:27,616 --> 00:34:31,026
Speaker 1: you've been a creative person most of your adult life.

658
00:34:31,376 --> 00:34:34,546
Speaker 1: But that has to be a pretty unique space to

659
00:34:34,786 --> 00:34:35,336
Speaker 1: create in.

660
00:34:35,366 --> 00:34:38,206
Speaker 2: Well, it's very cool. And, you know, it's not.

661
00:34:38,866 --> 00:34:41,376
Speaker 3: You know, it's not that foreign because, you know, Kanye

662
00:34:41,396 --> 00:34:44,956
Speaker 3: was always doing fashion when we were working together. Virgil

663
00:34:45,456 --> 00:34:48,936
Speaker 3: Abloh was in our orbit a lot. He designed my

664
00:34:49,256 --> 00:34:53,796
Speaker 3: album cover for Love in the Future. And so we'd

665
00:34:53,836 --> 00:34:55,296
Speaker 3: always had.

666
00:34:55,896 --> 00:34:59,046
Speaker 2: The fashion world around us while we were making music

667
00:34:59,206 --> 00:35:01,486
Speaker 2: over the years. But, you know, this is.

668
00:35:01,466 --> 00:35:07,006
Speaker 3: Pretty much the pinnacle of, you know, that collaboration, you know,

669
00:35:07,146 --> 00:35:09,836
Speaker 3: having someone working for one of the most important fashion

670
00:35:09,856 --> 00:35:13,766
Speaker 3: houses in the world. And making an album literally at

671
00:35:13,826 --> 00:35:17,166
Speaker 3: the same time in the same place is pretty special.

672
00:35:17,566 --> 00:35:18,726
Speaker 2: And so even.

673
00:35:18,646 --> 00:35:22,426
Speaker 3: Though I'd touched those worlds before, this was the deepest

674
00:35:22,506 --> 00:35:23,906
Speaker 3: immersion into that world.

675
00:35:24,166 --> 00:35:25,826
Speaker 1: It's like the height of both worlds.

676
00:35:26,226 --> 00:35:27,206
Speaker 2: Yeah.

677
00:35:27,346 --> 00:35:30,166
Speaker 3: And then top it off with the first time anyone

678
00:35:30,486 --> 00:35:34,846
Speaker 3: heard a song from the album, it was at the

679
00:35:34,906 --> 00:35:38,306
Speaker 3: fashion show for, for Louis Vuitton in January of 2026. Right,

680
00:35:38,346 --> 00:35:41,846
Speaker 3: to pray for you there. I'm at the show. All

681
00:35:41,886 --> 00:35:44,516
Speaker 3: these celebrities are there. All these fashion writers are there.

682
00:35:45,176 --> 00:35:48,336
Speaker 3: And I hear the orchestra warming up. And I hear

683
00:35:48,436 --> 00:35:50,876
Speaker 3: chords that I recognize. And I knew he was going

684
00:35:50,896 --> 00:35:52,396
Speaker 3: to play the song, but I didn't know what order

685
00:35:52,416 --> 00:35:53,956
Speaker 3: he was going to play it in. And the first

686
00:35:53,996 --> 00:35:57,476
Speaker 3: song played in the show was Pray For You. And

687
00:35:57,546 --> 00:35:59,676
Speaker 3: so that's like, this is.

688
00:36:01,256 --> 00:36:04,356
Speaker 3: All the reason you would do an album with Pharrell Williams,

689
00:36:04,436 --> 00:36:07,036
Speaker 3: creative director of Louis Vuitton Men. You're like, this is

690
00:36:07,096 --> 00:36:10,276
Speaker 3: why you want to do this, because you're making amazing music,

691
00:36:10,376 --> 00:36:12,756
Speaker 3: and then you get a chance to debut it.

692
00:36:12,736 --> 00:36:14,076
Speaker 2: In a way that no one else could.

693
00:36:14,396 --> 00:36:14,656
Speaker 1: Yeah.

694
00:36:15,016 --> 00:36:15,336
Speaker 2: Yeah.

695
00:36:15,476 --> 00:36:19,626
Speaker 1: I mean, the album cover, I imagine, had to be somewhat...

696
00:36:19,326 --> 00:36:21,626
Speaker 1: The album cover is beautiful. It had to be.

697
00:36:21,946 --> 00:36:25,046
Speaker 2: A lot of this was Pharrell's vision. He said he

698
00:36:25,086 --> 00:36:26,386
Speaker 2: had this vision.

699
00:36:26,046 --> 00:36:31,906
Speaker 3: Of me and a brigade of black men playing... orchestral

700
00:36:31,986 --> 00:36:36,706
Speaker 3: instruments behind me with me on an upright piano. Like

701
00:36:36,746 --> 00:36:40,886
Speaker 3: he told me that early in the project. And when

702
00:36:40,926 --> 00:36:45,046
Speaker 3: we shot the video for Fireflies, that's what we assembled

703
00:36:45,066 --> 00:36:50,536
Speaker 3: was this brigade of black men playing strings and horns

704
00:36:50,636 --> 00:36:56,056
Speaker 3: and then an 808 machine. And then we made that

705
00:36:56,096 --> 00:37:00,176
Speaker 3: the album cover as well. And it just represents the

706
00:37:00,256 --> 00:37:03,356
Speaker 3: vision that we had for the project from the beginning.

707
00:37:03,376 --> 00:37:06,076
Speaker 1: Wow. Is there something from the album that you could

708
00:37:06,836 --> 00:37:07,476
Speaker 1: play a little bit of?

709
00:37:08,056 --> 00:37:09,226
Speaker 2: Sure. What do you want to hear?

710
00:37:09,256 --> 00:37:10,146
Speaker 1: Oh, man.

711
00:37:10,526 --> 00:37:14,486
Speaker 3: We just made the video for Bodies on the Floor.

712
00:37:14,546 --> 00:37:14,866
Speaker 1: You did?

713
00:37:15,386 --> 00:37:22,806
Speaker 5: Heard the sound of the sirens Penetrating the silence Are

714
00:37:22,826 --> 00:37:24,256
Speaker 5: we doing this again?

715
00:37:25,176 --> 00:37:27,396
Speaker 2: Tell me this is not how it ends.

716
00:37:28,986 --> 00:37:34,436
Speaker 5: Broken glass on the counter, not another encounter.

717
00:37:35,756 --> 00:37:40,376
Speaker 2: We go round for round, pound for pound, over and

718
00:37:40,596 --> 00:37:42,256
Speaker 2: over and over.

719
00:37:45,316 --> 00:37:54,686
Speaker 4: After all we've lost, it only costs some things we just.

720
00:37:55,626 --> 00:37:57,326
Speaker 2: Can't afford to say.

721
00:37:59,546 --> 00:38:04,726
Speaker 6: I can't keep repeating, so I'm retreating.

722
00:38:06,256 --> 00:38:09,656
Speaker 2: I can't find a reason.

723
00:38:08,996 --> 00:38:13,156
Speaker 6: For me to stay. All this blood on the table

724
00:38:15,076 --> 00:38:20,236
Speaker 6: and bodies on the floor. It's a war, it's a

725
00:38:20,316 --> 00:38:25,376
Speaker 6: war that I don't want to fight no more. Only

726
00:38:25,456 --> 00:38:30,426
Speaker 6: heaven can save us. Stretch my hands to the Lord.

727
00:38:32,466 --> 00:38:35,146
Speaker 6: The choice is yours as a war that we don't

728
00:38:35,186 --> 00:38:40,686
Speaker 6: have to fight no more. They say all is fair

729
00:38:41,146 --> 00:38:45,166
Speaker 6: in love and war. But what am I still jealous for?

730
00:38:45,276 --> 00:38:49,996
Speaker 6: I let you leave, I can't let you go. There's

731
00:38:50,036 --> 00:38:53,016
Speaker 6: someone else I don't want to know. Can't see those

732
00:38:53,236 --> 00:38:59,306
Speaker 6: hands on your body. It's either me or nobody But

733
00:38:59,426 --> 00:39:01,066
Speaker 6: is the good worth the bad?

734
00:39:01,086 --> 00:39:02,826
Speaker 2: Do I miss what we had?

735
00:39:03,006 --> 00:39:06,026
Speaker 6: So much that I need it right back.

736
00:39:07,916 --> 00:39:09,396
Speaker 2: After all this.

737
00:39:09,236 --> 00:39:15,516
Speaker 6: Time Can't get you off my mind Maybe I drank

738
00:39:15,616 --> 00:39:22,746
Speaker 6: too much and I Just need you tonight Late night

739
00:39:22,786 --> 00:39:28,496
Speaker 6: call Do you miss me at all? We'll get back together,

740
00:39:28,606 --> 00:39:34,676
Speaker 6: no regrets Until the morning light When there's blood on

741
00:39:34,716 --> 00:39:35,616
Speaker 6: the table.

742
00:39:37,266 --> 00:39:39,046
Speaker 2: And bodies on the floor.

743
00:39:41,236 --> 00:39:42,596
Speaker 1: It's a war, it's.

744
00:39:42,496 --> 00:39:46,576
Speaker 6: A war That I don't want to fight no more Girl,

745
00:39:47,176 --> 00:39:51,786
Speaker 6: only heaven can save us Stretch my hands to the

746
00:39:51,866 --> 00:39:57,526
Speaker 6: Lord The choice is yours, it's a war we don't

747
00:39:57,566 --> 00:40:01,426
Speaker 6: have to fight no more sir we don't have to

748
00:40:01,506 --> 00:40:08,936
Speaker 6: fight no more we don't have to fight no more.

749
00:40:09,216 --> 00:40:11,556
Speaker 2: Choice is yours as a war and.

750
00:40:11,556 --> 00:40:19,826
Speaker 5: We don't have to fight no more oh man oh.

751
00:40:21,526 --> 00:40:24,256
Speaker 1: You know in your head, like theoretically, John Legend's talented.

752
00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:27,876
Speaker 1: You know, John Legend's talented. You see him, you're like, oh, like,

753
00:40:27,896 --> 00:40:28,956
Speaker 1: this motherfucker's talented.

754
00:40:30,036 --> 00:40:30,596
Speaker 2: Thank you.

755
00:40:31,976 --> 00:40:34,836
Speaker 1: Like, dang, man. Do you have to work on your voice?

756
00:40:35,876 --> 00:40:37,996
Speaker 3: I work on it all the time. I warm up.

757
00:40:38,456 --> 00:40:41,176
Speaker 3: I didn't warm up today, but if I have a show,

758
00:40:41,216 --> 00:40:47,226
Speaker 3: you know, I'm very conscientious of the physical toll that

759
00:40:47,326 --> 00:40:51,796
Speaker 3: touring takes on my voice, so I'm very careful i

760
00:40:51,816 --> 00:40:56,616
Speaker 3: don't drink on tour um lots of water and tea

761
00:40:56,716 --> 00:41:00,996
Speaker 3: and and uh warming up cooling down um you have

762
00:41:01,016 --> 00:41:04,736
Speaker 3: to treat yourself like an athlete like a high high

763
00:41:04,896 --> 00:41:10,576
Speaker 3: performance athlete um focus on your voice but um you're

764
00:41:11,036 --> 00:41:15,376
Speaker 3: relying on your body to perform every night uh or

765
00:41:15,666 --> 00:41:18,266
Speaker 3: four or five nights a week and so you have

766
00:41:18,286 --> 00:41:19,946
Speaker 3: to do the things to take care of it make

767
00:41:19,986 --> 00:41:21,876
Speaker 3: sure you You don't.

768
00:41:23,236 --> 00:41:24,396
Speaker 2: Jeopardize your moneymaker.

769
00:41:24,736 --> 00:41:27,656
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, framing it like an athlete

770
00:41:27,876 --> 00:41:29,896
Speaker 1: is probably the right way because, I mean, your voice

771
00:41:29,956 --> 00:41:30,356
Speaker 1: in person.

772
00:41:30,376 --> 00:41:33,266
Speaker 3: Honestly, I think of myself as an athlete all the time.

773
00:41:33,286 --> 00:41:36,286
Speaker 3: And when I'm a big sports fan, I'm not a

774
00:41:36,306 --> 00:41:37,326
Speaker 3: good athlete.

775
00:41:38,326 --> 00:41:38,746
Speaker 1: Good singer.

776
00:41:39,586 --> 00:41:44,866
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when my favorite players get injured, I'm immediately

777
00:41:45,436 --> 00:41:48,476
Speaker 3: empathizing and thinking about my voice and how I would feel.

778
00:41:48,496 --> 00:41:57,736
Speaker 2: Yeah. with the same parallel injury in my field, I'm already, my.

779
00:41:57,596 --> 00:42:01,916
Speaker 3: Brain goes exactly to that place and it's almost like

780
00:42:01,956 --> 00:42:05,816
Speaker 3: I feel their pain when it's their hamstring or their

781
00:42:05,876 --> 00:42:09,916
Speaker 3: knee or whatever it is, I connect it to the

782
00:42:09,956 --> 00:42:12,136
Speaker 3: way I feel when my voice isn't operating the way

783
00:42:12,156 --> 00:42:12,476
Speaker 3: it should.

784
00:42:12,656 --> 00:42:14,736
Speaker 1: Do you think, because you have both, you have the

785
00:42:14,776 --> 00:42:17,906
Speaker 1: ability to play as well as you sing, Basically, there's

786
00:42:18,046 --> 00:42:23,626
Speaker 1: probably about equal. Do they feel connected? Could you do

787
00:42:24,066 --> 00:42:26,246
Speaker 1: one without the other as well in your mind? Or

788
00:42:26,266 --> 00:42:27,586
Speaker 1: do you see yourself as both?

789
00:42:27,746 --> 00:42:30,366
Speaker 3: I think of myself more as a singer-songwriter than a pianist.

790
00:42:30,446 --> 00:42:34,926
Speaker 3: I think piano is a little bit below singer-songwriter for me.

791
00:42:35,906 --> 00:42:37,926
Speaker 3: And there are times when I'm on tour where I

792
00:42:37,946 --> 00:42:40,966
Speaker 3: let my band play and I just sing. And I

793
00:42:41,006 --> 00:42:44,706
Speaker 3: enjoy those times. And there are times when every song

794
00:42:44,726 --> 00:42:49,056
Speaker 3: doesn't need a piano part. And so I think of

795
00:42:49,076 --> 00:42:51,676
Speaker 3: myself a little bit more as a singer songwriter.

796
00:42:51,216 --> 00:42:52,406
Speaker 2: Than a pianist.

797
00:42:52,946 --> 00:42:55,566
Speaker 3: And I'm also around a lot of people who can

798
00:42:55,666 --> 00:42:58,146
Speaker 3: really play the piano, like with a higher level of

799
00:42:58,186 --> 00:43:00,926
Speaker 3: virtuosity than I can. But I do feel good about

800
00:43:00,966 --> 00:43:02,606
Speaker 3: my piano playing. I think I have a really good

801
00:43:02,716 --> 00:43:06,576
Speaker 3: feel and my style works really well for the songs

802
00:43:06,596 --> 00:43:07,156
Speaker 3: that I write.

803
00:43:07,976 --> 00:43:10,356
Speaker 2: But I know so many better pianists than I am.

804
00:43:10,476 --> 00:43:13,136
Speaker 1: I don't know if Elton John would sit here and

805
00:43:13,156 --> 00:43:15,716
Speaker 1: say that.

806
00:43:16,436 --> 00:43:20,566
Speaker 3: I feel like my percentile as a singer-songwriter is higher

807
00:43:20,586 --> 00:43:23,126
Speaker 3: than my percentile as a pianist.

808
00:43:23,386 --> 00:43:23,826
Speaker 2: I got you.

809
00:43:23,866 --> 00:43:26,626
Speaker 1: I got you. I got you. Do you work out

810
00:43:26,666 --> 00:43:27,246
Speaker 1: the piano still?

811
00:43:27,846 --> 00:43:30,706
Speaker 3: I play all the time just because I'm writing in

812
00:43:30,756 --> 00:43:33,756
Speaker 3: this room a lot and playing in that sense.

813
00:43:33,796 --> 00:43:36,926
Speaker 2: But I don't do a lot of, I guess... exercises

814
00:43:36,986 --> 00:43:37,786
Speaker 2: to practice.

815
00:43:38,986 --> 00:43:42,446
Speaker 3: But I'm always playing because I'm always using it as

816
00:43:42,546 --> 00:43:44,066
Speaker 3: a tool to write.

817
00:43:44,286 --> 00:43:47,226
Speaker 1: Has it ever happened where you hear something that intrigues you,

818
00:43:47,246 --> 00:43:49,586
Speaker 1: a song, where there's a piano line that intrigues you

819
00:43:49,606 --> 00:43:52,606
Speaker 1: and you think, I want to try to... And it's

820
00:43:52,686 --> 00:43:53,606
Speaker 1: caused you to stretch a bit?

821
00:43:54,506 --> 00:43:57,716
Speaker 3: I mean, anything Nina Simone does, I love the way

822
00:43:57,756 --> 00:44:01,436
Speaker 3: she plays. And I am not able to do it

823
00:44:01,536 --> 00:44:04,916
Speaker 3: like she does. She was a really classically trained pianist.

824
00:44:05,056 --> 00:44:07,556
Speaker 3: I had a little bit of classical training, but she

825
00:44:07,576 --> 00:44:09,916
Speaker 3: spent a lot more time doing it to the point

826
00:44:09,936 --> 00:44:13,416
Speaker 3: where she was auditioning to get into Curtis and other

827
00:44:13,456 --> 00:44:21,686
Speaker 3: music conservatories. And she was going as a pianist. She

828
00:44:21,726 --> 00:44:24,586
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to be a vocalist at the time. And

829
00:44:24,646 --> 00:44:28,126
Speaker 3: she was really focused on being a pianist. Whereas with me,

830
00:44:28,566 --> 00:44:31,646
Speaker 3: I think piano was never my first priority and I

831
00:44:31,686 --> 00:44:36,096
Speaker 3: was never training to be at that level of playing piano.

832
00:44:36,136 --> 00:44:40,596
Speaker 3: I just wanted to be comfortable accompanying myself as a singer-songwriter.

833
00:44:40,736 --> 00:44:43,776
Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard you approximate Nina's playing, though.

834
00:44:43,836 --> 00:44:46,456
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've tried, but I know that I can't do

835
00:44:46,516 --> 00:44:48,976
Speaker 3: exactly what she did. I'm sure if I spend a

836
00:44:48,996 --> 00:44:50,516
Speaker 3: lot of time working on it, but I just have

837
00:44:50,536 --> 00:44:54,976
Speaker 3: never prioritized that aspect of my skill as a performer

838
00:44:55,336 --> 00:44:57,066
Speaker 3: enough to get as good as she got at it.

839
00:44:57,596 --> 00:44:59,456
Speaker 1: Do you, so some of the guys you're around that

840
00:44:59,476 --> 00:45:01,316
Speaker 1: you say are, you know, guys and gals, you say

841
00:45:01,336 --> 00:45:02,266
Speaker 1: you've been around that maybe.

842
00:45:02,366 --> 00:45:06,146
Speaker 3: Like my musical director, Eugene Man Man Roberts, he's like

843
00:45:06,686 --> 00:45:11,606
Speaker 3: virtuosic pianist and can play anything, can solo, he can

844
00:45:11,626 --> 00:45:16,176
Speaker 3: play jazz, soul, hip hop, reggae, whatever. He's incredible. And,

845
00:45:16,716 --> 00:45:19,336
Speaker 3: you know, he can do a lot on the keys

846
00:45:19,376 --> 00:45:20,076
Speaker 3: that I can't do.

847
00:45:20,316 --> 00:45:20,536
Speaker 2: Wow.

848
00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:20,796
Speaker 4: Yeah.

849
00:45:21,226 --> 00:45:24,026
Speaker 1: What about a guy like Stevie Wonder, who might also

850
00:45:24,066 --> 00:45:27,256
Speaker 1: be in the vein? I mean, maybe more on the

851
00:45:27,376 --> 00:45:31,796
Speaker 1: verge of... More singer-songwriter than necessarily. But you've played... Actually,

852
00:45:31,816 --> 00:45:34,256
Speaker 1: I've seen you play with Stevie. How is Stevie as

853
00:45:34,296 --> 00:45:34,556
Speaker 1: a player?

854
00:45:34,576 --> 00:45:36,996
Speaker 3: What I love about Stevie as a player was he

855
00:45:37,036 --> 00:45:41,316
Speaker 3: was really introducing a lot of chord structures and progressions

856
00:45:41,356 --> 00:45:46,966
Speaker 3: that were signature to his style to soul music. And

857
00:45:47,026 --> 00:45:50,496
Speaker 3: so he was so innovative, I think, as a keyboard player,

858
00:45:50,526 --> 00:45:51,816
Speaker 3: and he was not just playing piano.

859
00:45:52,036 --> 00:45:54,576
Speaker 2: Often he was playing electric, kind of.

860
00:45:54,596 --> 00:45:58,636
Speaker 3: Early electric keyboards like the Rhodes and the Wurlitzer and

861
00:45:58,676 --> 00:46:03,556
Speaker 3: those synthesizers in their early iterations. So he was doing

862
00:46:03,576 --> 00:46:06,416
Speaker 3: a lot of innovation, and the chords he was composing

863
00:46:07,516 --> 00:46:10,516
Speaker 3: were so interesting and different for soul music to the

864
00:46:10,556 --> 00:46:12,396
Speaker 3: point where when you hear them, you're like, oh, those

865
00:46:12,456 --> 00:46:17,146
Speaker 3: are Stevie chords. I heard Robert Glasper talking about it,

866
00:46:17,246 --> 00:46:22,666
Speaker 3: and he was talking about how Stevie has a specific

867
00:46:22,726 --> 00:46:25,146
Speaker 3: singing style that is so signature to him. He has

868
00:46:25,166 --> 00:46:29,566
Speaker 3: a specific songwriting style, specific way of playing that's so

869
00:46:29,606 --> 00:46:33,686
Speaker 3: specific to him. And that's why he's such a genius

870
00:46:33,746 --> 00:46:38,776
Speaker 3: and so impactful as an artist because he innovated and

871
00:46:38,876 --> 00:46:42,716
Speaker 3: created a signature in multiple areas of making music that

872
00:46:42,836 --> 00:46:46,996
Speaker 3: all of us are still looking at as the quintessential

873
00:46:47,096 --> 00:46:50,246
Speaker 3: soul music that that can be made by a male

874
00:46:50,386 --> 00:46:54,436
Speaker 3: R & B or whatever singer. He is the blueprint.

875
00:46:54,976 --> 00:46:55,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

876
00:46:55,956 --> 00:46:58,026
Speaker 1: And you know what? To add to what Robert said too,

877
00:46:58,036 --> 00:46:59,436
Speaker 1: it's like you listen to Stevie, he also has a

878
00:46:59,556 --> 00:47:03,456
Speaker 1: very unique to him sense of rhythm too.

879
00:47:04,076 --> 00:47:06,346
Speaker 2: And by the way, Robert mentioned he played the drums

880
00:47:06,386 --> 00:47:07,426
Speaker 2: on a lot of those tracks too.

881
00:47:07,546 --> 00:47:10,326
Speaker 1: Yeah, and his drum playing is phenomenal, but it doesn't

882
00:47:10,386 --> 00:47:13,026
Speaker 1: sound like any other drummer. Yeah, it's like he was so.

883
00:47:13,746 --> 00:47:17,066
Speaker 3: himself and so influential because a lot of people came

884
00:47:17,126 --> 00:47:19,326
Speaker 3: after him that tried to sound like him, but nobody

885
00:47:19,346 --> 00:47:20,246
Speaker 3: sounded like him before him.

886
00:47:20,486 --> 00:47:20,686
Speaker 2: Yeah.

887
00:47:20,866 --> 00:47:22,436
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that too, listening to this record,

888
00:47:22,456 --> 00:47:24,416
Speaker 1: because Pharrell is similar in that way. Pharrell has a

889
00:47:24,516 --> 00:47:28,496
Speaker 1: really unique sense of rhythm. It's unique to him.

890
00:47:28,616 --> 00:47:29,176
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

891
00:47:29,276 --> 00:47:33,516
Speaker 3: And similar to Stevie in the sense that when you

892
00:47:33,556 --> 00:47:36,376
Speaker 3: hear a Pharrell record, you know it's him. And if

893
00:47:36,396 --> 00:47:38,626
Speaker 3: you hear someone that sounds like him, you know they're

894
00:47:38,646 --> 00:47:39,586
Speaker 3: trying to sound like him.

895
00:47:39,646 --> 00:47:40,386
Speaker 1: Yeah.

896
00:47:40,646 --> 00:47:43,476
Speaker 3: And... I think it's great for a producer to have

897
00:47:43,516 --> 00:47:49,296
Speaker 3: that kind of identity as a creator that they.

898
00:47:49,196 --> 00:47:51,396
Speaker 2: Have a signature. It doesn't mean everything sounds the same.

899
00:47:51,876 --> 00:47:54,866
Speaker 3: It just means that they have a real identity and

900
00:47:54,886 --> 00:47:56,706
Speaker 3: a point of view as a producer.

901
00:47:57,106 --> 00:47:58,486
Speaker 1: In your view, do you feel like you have a

902
00:47:58,506 --> 00:47:59,606
Speaker 1: signature or something that.

903
00:47:59,926 --> 00:48:03,286
Speaker 3: I think people, when they hear my compositions, they hear

904
00:48:03,426 --> 00:48:04,986
Speaker 3: my voice in those compositions.

905
00:48:05,206 --> 00:48:05,406
Speaker 1: Yeah.

906
00:48:05,986 --> 00:48:08,886
Speaker 3: Like when I'm writing for Broadway, other people are singing

907
00:48:08,926 --> 00:48:11,526
Speaker 3: my songs and But my friend.

908
00:48:11,286 --> 00:48:14,326
Speaker 2: Who has collaborated with me over the years.

909
00:48:14,006 --> 00:48:16,366
Speaker 3: And produced some of my records, he went to one

910
00:48:16,386 --> 00:48:19,276
Speaker 3: of our workshops presentations. He was like, oh, I hear

911
00:48:19,296 --> 00:48:23,936
Speaker 3: your songwriting voice all over this project. I hear the

912
00:48:23,976 --> 00:48:27,216
Speaker 3: John Legend-isms throughout. And I think that's because I do

913
00:48:27,236 --> 00:48:31,316
Speaker 3: have a signature style as a singer and a songwriter.

914
00:48:31,836 --> 00:48:35,166
Speaker 3: And you can hear those characteristics even when someone else

915
00:48:35,226 --> 00:48:35,776
Speaker 3: is singing it.

916
00:48:36,026 --> 00:48:38,186
Speaker 1: And even when you're writing, because writing for Broadway is

917
00:48:38,886 --> 00:48:41,126
Speaker 1: probably very different i imagine but i.

918
00:48:40,906 --> 00:48:42,876
Speaker 3: But i didn't want it to sound like i was

919
00:48:42,956 --> 00:48:45,376
Speaker 3: trying to write for broadway like i wanted it just

920
00:48:45,396 --> 00:48:49,836
Speaker 3: to sound like great music um and uh and write

921
00:48:49,876 --> 00:48:52,206
Speaker 3: from my own point of view as a musician and

922
00:48:52,226 --> 00:48:56,626
Speaker 3: so you'll hear connective tissue between the the songs i've

923
00:48:56,646 --> 00:48:59,086
Speaker 3: written for pop music and and what i wrote for

924
00:48:59,126 --> 00:49:01,856
Speaker 3: theater and uh You'll hear that. You'll hear a lot

925
00:49:01,876 --> 00:49:04,976
Speaker 3: of my signature as a, as a, as a songwriter, uh,

926
00:49:05,856 --> 00:49:08,646
Speaker 3: as a, you know, as a stylist.

927
00:49:08,796 --> 00:49:14,886
Speaker 1: Yeah. Tell me about writing a musical. I mean, I

928
00:49:15,226 --> 00:49:18,086
Speaker 1: knew of one, Imitation of Life, which is, like you mentioned,

929
00:49:18,106 --> 00:49:19,846
Speaker 1: you wrote early on in the pandemic and it's, it's,

930
00:49:19,966 --> 00:49:20,886
Speaker 1: it's coming soon.

931
00:49:20,906 --> 00:49:23,966
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's about to hit the theater on November 21st,

932
00:49:24,606 --> 00:49:28,146
Speaker 3: at The Shed. It'll be off-Broadway and then hopefully eventually on-Broadway.

933
00:49:29,006 --> 00:49:32,646
Speaker 3: And then we're writing another show called Boom For Real,

934
00:49:33,126 --> 00:49:37,976
Speaker 3: which is about the life of Jean-Michel Basquiat and his legacy.

935
00:49:38,376 --> 00:49:43,716
Speaker 3: A major character is also his father who took over

936
00:49:44,336 --> 00:49:50,046
Speaker 3: his legacy when he passed away. And his father's efforts

937
00:49:50,146 --> 00:49:55,176
Speaker 3: to reconcile with taking over his legacy but not really

938
00:49:55,436 --> 00:49:56,716
Speaker 3: being heavily involved in.

939
00:49:56,696 --> 00:50:01,336
Speaker 2: His career when he was alive. It's an interesting show.

940
00:50:01,756 --> 00:50:06,916
Speaker 3: I'm writing it with Marcus Gardley and I'm really excited

941
00:50:06,956 --> 00:50:09,826
Speaker 3: for that too. The music is different because Imitation of

942
00:50:09,866 --> 00:50:12,426
Speaker 3: Life is based in the 20s and 30s and then

943
00:50:12,746 --> 00:50:14,626
Speaker 3: the music for this is based in the time when

944
00:50:15,486 --> 00:50:19,016
Speaker 3: Jean-Michel was alive so the 60s, 70s and 80s.

945
00:50:19,476 --> 00:50:23,096
Speaker 1: Wow. And so do you cover that sort of territory

946
00:50:23,116 --> 00:50:24,956
Speaker 1: in terms of the sound?

947
00:50:25,276 --> 00:50:29,176
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll hear music, I think, that will feel like

948
00:50:29,276 --> 00:50:32,736
Speaker 3: it's from all those different eras and times. So we made,

949
00:50:33,476 --> 00:50:37,466
Speaker 3: I would call it kind of 80s soulful pop for it.

950
00:50:38,616 --> 00:50:45,296
Speaker 3: We've made 70s influence stuff. And then we've made some

951
00:50:45,316 --> 00:50:47,516
Speaker 3: that are a little bit more kind of classic Broadway.

952
00:50:47,536 --> 00:50:48,136
Speaker 2: Yeah.

953
00:50:48,836 --> 00:50:50,816
Speaker 1: So how did both of these come to you? What

954
00:50:50,876 --> 00:50:51,376
Speaker 1: was the.

955
00:50:51,796 --> 00:50:56,616
Speaker 3: Both through different paths. So Imitation of Life came... It

956
00:50:56,656 --> 00:51:03,186
Speaker 3: started with our original director, Liesl Tommy. And she had

957
00:51:03,206 --> 00:51:07,506
Speaker 3: a general meeting with Universal's theater department. And Imitation of

958
00:51:07,606 --> 00:51:11,476
Speaker 3: Life is an intellectual property that Universal owns because they

959
00:51:11,496 --> 00:51:15,616
Speaker 3: made the two films. And it was all based on

960
00:51:15,656 --> 00:51:18,486
Speaker 3: a book by a woman named Fanny Hurst. this book

961
00:51:18,526 --> 00:51:21,956
Speaker 3: was very popular and the films were very popular. My parents' generation,

962
00:51:22,296 --> 00:51:24,756
Speaker 3: they all have seen at least one of the films.

963
00:51:25,616 --> 00:51:30,036
Speaker 3: They were both Oscar nominated. And so these were kind

964
00:51:30,076 --> 00:51:34,096
Speaker 3: of classic films that had pretty huge cultural impact in

965
00:51:34,136 --> 00:51:37,606
Speaker 3: their day. And Liesl met with Universal and was like,

966
00:51:37,836 --> 00:51:40,906
Speaker 3: I always had this vision of making Imitation of Life

967
00:51:40,966 --> 00:51:44,126
Speaker 3: into a musical and writing it more from a black

968
00:51:44,166 --> 00:51:47,396
Speaker 3: perspective where we center the black woman in the story.

969
00:51:47,546 --> 00:51:50,936
Speaker 3: There's a black woman and a white woman who collaborate

970
00:51:50,956 --> 00:51:54,196
Speaker 3: on a business together. The black woman is kind of

971
00:51:54,236 --> 00:51:58,356
Speaker 3: like a version of an Aunt Jemima type character who's

972
00:51:58,616 --> 00:52:03,056
Speaker 3: a genius in the kitchen. And the white woman goes

973
00:52:03,096 --> 00:52:05,756
Speaker 3: into business with her to sell her genius.

974
00:52:05,776 --> 00:52:08,056
Speaker 2: In the kitchen to the world, package it up and

975
00:52:08,096 --> 00:52:08,426
Speaker 2: sell it.

976
00:52:09,696 --> 00:52:13,216
Speaker 3: And in the films and in the book, the focus

977
00:52:13,256 --> 00:52:16,096
Speaker 3: is more centered on the white woman, but we decided

978
00:52:16,356 --> 00:52:19,236
Speaker 3: to make it more focused on Delilah, the black woman

979
00:52:19,256 --> 00:52:19,876
Speaker 3: in the story.

980
00:52:20,416 --> 00:52:22,236
Speaker 2: And Liesl, when.

981
00:52:22,136 --> 00:52:25,096
Speaker 3: She pitched the idea to Universal, we hadn't even met

982
00:52:25,176 --> 00:52:27,416
Speaker 3: or talked about it yet, but she was like, and

983
00:52:27,456 --> 00:52:30,166
Speaker 3: I really want John Legend to write the music and

984
00:52:30,256 --> 00:52:34,546
Speaker 3: Lynn Nottage to write the book. And we were her

985
00:52:34,586 --> 00:52:37,186
Speaker 3: first choices and she got both of us to do it.

986
00:52:38,026 --> 00:52:40,346
Speaker 3: And she had worked, I think, with Lynn before, but

987
00:52:40,566 --> 00:52:43,306
Speaker 3: we'd never worked together or met before. But she reached

988
00:52:43,346 --> 00:52:45,906
Speaker 3: out to my team and just pitched the idea. Would

989
00:52:45,966 --> 00:52:49,066
Speaker 3: John ever want to write for Broadway? Would he be

990
00:52:49,106 --> 00:52:52,476
Speaker 3: interested in this particular intellectual property? And I read the

991
00:52:52,526 --> 00:52:55,396
Speaker 3: book and watched one of the films. And I was like,

992
00:52:55,436 --> 00:52:56,716
Speaker 3: I could see myself writing this.

993
00:52:56,796 --> 00:52:59,216
Speaker 2: And it was during the pandemic. So we had a

994
00:52:59,236 --> 00:53:03,056
Speaker 2: lot of free time. Challenge. We weren't touring.

995
00:53:04,276 --> 00:53:08,806
Speaker 3: And, you know, I had time to, like, dig into it.

996
00:53:08,886 --> 00:53:12,406
Speaker 3: And so we started meeting on zoom. Um, they're both

997
00:53:12,446 --> 00:53:15,226
Speaker 3: based in New York, Liesl and Lynn, and I was

998
00:53:15,276 --> 00:53:18,016
Speaker 3: based here in this room. So I would, uh, would

999
00:53:18,136 --> 00:53:19,856
Speaker 3: be doing a lot of zooms from this room and

1000
00:53:19,876 --> 00:53:22,356
Speaker 3: then doing a lot of the writing here. And that,

1001
00:53:22,456 --> 00:53:25,596
Speaker 3: that was the first project I really wrote in this room. Um,

1002
00:53:25,976 --> 00:53:28,256
Speaker 3: cause we had just moved into this place, uh, in

1003
00:53:28,316 --> 00:53:32,596
Speaker 3: May of 2021. And, um, and so I started writing

1004
00:53:32,636 --> 00:53:35,626
Speaker 3: the songs right here in this room and, and, uh,

1005
00:53:36,376 --> 00:53:40,116
Speaker 3: And I was enjoying it. It was fun to write

1006
00:53:40,196 --> 00:53:44,776
Speaker 3: in a different genre and for a different medium. And,

1007
00:53:46,196 --> 00:53:48,806
Speaker 3: and it was fun collaborating with two people who had

1008
00:53:49,286 --> 00:53:53,146
Speaker 3: a lot of experience in the theater world. So they

1009
00:53:53,166 --> 00:53:57,846
Speaker 3: kind of mentored me and, and helped me apply my

1010
00:53:58,346 --> 00:54:03,156
Speaker 3: understanding of songwriting to a different medium. And, and then

1011
00:54:03,316 --> 00:54:06,916
Speaker 3: we started doing workshops and, And workshops are interesting because

1012
00:54:07,316 --> 00:54:12,156
Speaker 3: there's really no other, you know, experience I've had.

1013
00:54:12,016 --> 00:54:15,416
Speaker 2: With that level of iteration on a project.

1014
00:54:15,896 --> 00:54:18,276
Speaker 3: When you do workshops, it starts with a table read

1015
00:54:18,316 --> 00:54:20,656
Speaker 3: and you're teaching the song. So you're starting to hear

1016
00:54:20,916 --> 00:54:25,326
Speaker 3: how those sound in the actor's voices. And then you

1017
00:54:25,346 --> 00:54:28,746
Speaker 3: start to see it when the choreographer is introduced to

1018
00:54:28,766 --> 00:54:34,556
Speaker 3: the equation and you're seeing, you know, how the song

1019
00:54:34,656 --> 00:54:38,116
Speaker 3: plays out in the staging and everything. And every time

1020
00:54:38,176 --> 00:54:41,496
Speaker 3: you see a new manifestation of it, you're like, Oh,

1021
00:54:41,516 --> 00:54:42,256
Speaker 3: I got to change that.

1022
00:54:42,336 --> 00:54:44,376
Speaker 2: Oh, I got to fix that. Oh, this is not working.

1023
00:54:44,736 --> 00:54:50,106
Speaker 3: And so the iteration process is constant. You're always rewriting, uh,

1024
00:54:50,166 --> 00:54:55,086
Speaker 3: you're removing songs, uh, adding new songs. We rewritten the

1025
00:54:55,306 --> 00:54:58,106
Speaker 3: opening song as Lynn told me we would. She told me,

1026
00:54:58,126 --> 00:54:59,706
Speaker 3: she was like, the hardest thing is going to be

1027
00:54:59,746 --> 00:55:01,866
Speaker 3: getting the opening song, right? You're going to rewrite it

1028
00:55:01,906 --> 00:55:04,566
Speaker 3: multiple times. I promise you. And she was absolutely right.

1029
00:55:04,746 --> 00:55:07,006
Speaker 1: It probably sounds different, though, on the front end of things.

1030
00:55:07,026 --> 00:55:09,316
Speaker 1: Probably when you're in the process, like, wait, are you

1031
00:55:09,356 --> 00:55:10,476
Speaker 1: kidding me?

1032
00:55:10,696 --> 00:55:10,996
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1033
00:55:11,136 --> 00:55:14,856
Speaker 3: And so you just keep working on it and seeing

1034
00:55:14,976 --> 00:55:18,636
Speaker 3: it and hearing it in all the voices of the

1035
00:55:18,756 --> 00:55:21,096
Speaker 3: actors and seeing them dance with it and do all

1036
00:55:21,116 --> 00:55:23,096
Speaker 3: the things you have to do on stage with it.

1037
00:55:23,586 --> 00:55:27,886
Speaker 2: And it keeps changing. But I feel like I've learned

1038
00:55:28,186 --> 00:55:30,186
Speaker 2: and grown so much during this process.

1039
00:55:30,676 --> 00:55:33,116
Speaker 3: And I feel like I've started a whole new career

1040
00:55:33,416 --> 00:55:34,656
Speaker 3: that I want to do more of.

1041
00:55:34,856 --> 00:55:37,036
Speaker 1: You have, because you're doing another one pretty quickly.

1042
00:55:37,156 --> 00:55:40,576
Speaker 3: And that's why when the Basquiat musical came to us,

1043
00:55:40,596 --> 00:55:42,006
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I want to do some more.

1044
00:55:43,226 --> 00:55:48,066
Speaker 3: And the idea of doing something with the blessing of

1045
00:55:48,646 --> 00:55:51,826
Speaker 3: Jean-Michel's sisters, who are in charge of his legacy now,

1046
00:55:53,126 --> 00:55:57,646
Speaker 3: was exciting. Obviously, he's such an iconic figure in culture

1047
00:55:58,226 --> 00:55:58,726
Speaker 3: and art.

1048
00:55:59,426 --> 00:55:59,546
Speaker 2: And.

1049
00:56:01,066 --> 00:56:05,106
Speaker 3: I looked at it as this amazing opportunity and challenge

1050
00:56:05,546 --> 00:56:07,846
Speaker 3: to try to capture his life in music. Yeah.

1051
00:56:08,366 --> 00:56:11,186
Speaker 1: He's such a, um, I mean, he's obviously so iconic

1052
00:56:11,206 --> 00:56:13,906
Speaker 1: and his work is so well known, but obviously you're

1053
00:56:13,926 --> 00:56:15,966
Speaker 1: getting into the story in a different way. Did you, was,

1054
00:56:16,026 --> 00:56:17,646
Speaker 1: did you learn new things about him?

1055
00:56:17,666 --> 00:56:19,146
Speaker 2: I'm learning all kinds of new things about him.

1056
00:56:19,206 --> 00:56:23,446
Speaker 3: I never studied him, uh, in depth until I, uh,

1057
00:56:24,026 --> 00:56:26,506
Speaker 3: until I had the opportunity to do this. And our

1058
00:56:26,566 --> 00:56:29,616
Speaker 3: book writer, Marcus Gardley, like, He, you know, it's his

1059
00:56:29,716 --> 00:56:32,516
Speaker 3: role to study his story and to craft the story

1060
00:56:32,676 --> 00:56:36,856
Speaker 3: of the show. And then it's my role to follow

1061
00:56:36,896 --> 00:56:40,056
Speaker 3: his lead, follow his story and create songs for each

1062
00:56:40,516 --> 00:56:46,166
Speaker 3: scene that help advance the story. You want to make

1063
00:56:46,206 --> 00:56:49,086
Speaker 3: it feel like it works for the time period in

1064
00:56:49,126 --> 00:56:52,066
Speaker 3: which the show is based. But also you want to

1065
00:56:52,106 --> 00:56:54,866
Speaker 3: be influenced by the music he was listening to. He

1066
00:56:54,986 --> 00:56:58,236
Speaker 3: made music, too, during this time. So I listened to,

1067
00:56:58,276 --> 00:57:02,176
Speaker 3: you know, his sisters made kind of like a soundtrack

1068
00:57:02,636 --> 00:57:04,756
Speaker 3: for King Pleasure.

1069
00:57:04,796 --> 00:57:05,276
Speaker 2: Which was.

1070
00:57:06,796 --> 00:57:10,286
Speaker 3: An exhibit, an exhibition that they did honoring his memory.

1071
00:57:10,846 --> 00:57:13,346
Speaker 3: And so I listened to the soundtrack they made for

1072
00:57:13,386 --> 00:57:18,466
Speaker 3: that exhibition and just tried to study up and then

1073
00:57:18,586 --> 00:57:21,386
Speaker 3: just tried to respond to the storytelling that Marcus was

1074
00:57:21,426 --> 00:57:25,016
Speaker 3: doing with songs that helped advance that story.

1075
00:57:25,276 --> 00:57:28,156
Speaker 1: Wow. Is there... maybe from imitation of life, like a

1076
00:57:28,416 --> 00:57:30,296
Speaker 1: song you could, you could play.

1077
00:57:30,956 --> 00:57:31,616
Speaker 2: Oh, mine.

1078
00:57:32,336 --> 00:57:35,956
Speaker 3: Um, Saturday night in Harlem is my favorite song. Um,

1079
00:57:36,476 --> 00:57:38,116
Speaker 3: when this happens in the show, it's in the second

1080
00:57:38,276 --> 00:57:42,256
Speaker 3: act and Delilah, our main character is dating a guy

1081
00:57:42,296 --> 00:57:50,706
Speaker 3: named Elroy and he's, you know, handsome and romantic with her. And, and, uh, and, uh,

1082
00:57:50,866 --> 00:57:54,126
Speaker 3: he loves being a black man in Harlem. And, um,

1083
00:57:55,526 --> 00:58:01,756
Speaker 3: Delilah's daughter's name is Piola and she's mixed and she's

1084
00:58:02,066 --> 00:58:05,756
Speaker 3: light-skinned enough that she can pass for white. And anybody

1085
00:58:05,776 --> 00:58:07,776
Speaker 3: who's watched the film know that that's a big part

1086
00:58:07,816 --> 00:58:10,716
Speaker 3: of the story is that Delilah has this daughter who

1087
00:58:10,736 --> 00:58:13,436
Speaker 3: could pass for white and chooses to do so during

1088
00:58:13,496 --> 00:58:15,696
Speaker 3: a time when that was very transgressive. But it was

1089
00:58:15,736 --> 00:58:18,956
Speaker 3: also done a significant amount by folks who.

1090
00:58:18,876 --> 00:58:20,476
Speaker 2: Had the ability to do so.

1091
00:58:21,416 --> 00:58:25,226
Speaker 3: But he's selling her on the idea that Being black

1092
00:58:25,286 --> 00:58:28,346
Speaker 3: is the thing to be, and being in Harlem, he'll

1093
00:58:28,386 --> 00:58:32,416
Speaker 3: take that over anything. And I'm singing this one because

1094
00:58:32,496 --> 00:58:34,036
Speaker 3: it's one of the few songs that's in a male

1095
00:58:34,076 --> 00:58:38,476
Speaker 3: voice because most of the lead characters in the show

1096
00:58:38,616 --> 00:58:42,876
Speaker 3: are women. And so I'm going to sing Saturday Night

1097
00:58:42,896 --> 00:58:44,956
Speaker 3: in Harlem, one of my favorite songs from the show.

1098
00:58:47,006 --> 00:58:51,966
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of faces I've been a lot

1099
00:58:52,006 --> 00:58:53,066
Speaker 2: of places.

1100
00:58:54,186 --> 00:59:02,736
Speaker 5: But none of them are quite like mine. Let them

1101
00:59:02,856 --> 00:59:10,896
Speaker 5: stroll Park Avenue. Sip martinis, taste fondue. That's not my

1102
00:59:11,176 --> 00:59:20,496
Speaker 5: idea of a good time. Give me chitlins, collard greens

1103
00:59:20,796 --> 00:59:26,536
Speaker 5: Delilah's fried chicken and black-eyed peas Moonshine whiskey and a

1104
00:59:26,536 --> 00:59:28,156
Speaker 5: cheap bottle of.

1105
00:59:28,156 --> 00:59:36,716
Speaker 4: Wine That fine line is not for me Keep your

1106
00:59:36,796 --> 00:59:42,016
Speaker 4: high society We can strut down Linux And I'll be

1107
00:59:42,096 --> 00:59:46,956
Speaker 4: satisfied Oh, I'm.

1108
00:59:47,416 --> 00:59:52,456
Speaker 6: Uptown In my zone Round one, two, five I feel

1109
00:59:52,636 --> 00:59:59,206
Speaker 6: right at home I'll take a Saturday night in Harlem Anytime.

1110
01:00:01,186 --> 01:00:01,866
Speaker 2: I'll take a.

1111
01:00:01,846 --> 01:00:09,096
Speaker 6: Saturday night in Harlem Oh, man.

1112
01:00:09,116 --> 01:00:13,576
Speaker 1: Oh, I got to go see that thing. That's phenomenal, man.

1113
01:00:14,776 --> 01:00:18,676
Speaker 1: How fun to write from that perspective, just like doing

1114
01:00:18,716 --> 01:00:21,716
Speaker 1: that like Fats Waller kind of bluesy stuff. And then,

1115
01:00:22,376 --> 01:00:24,516
Speaker 1: you know, just what a cool, and to write from

1116
01:00:24,556 --> 01:00:27,716
Speaker 1: a character, the perspective of a character named Ellery in Harlem.

1117
01:00:27,776 --> 01:00:29,836
Speaker 1: That's just a lot you could go with that.

1118
01:00:29,856 --> 01:00:32,216
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love, and I love writing for women too,

1119
01:00:32,376 --> 01:00:34,756
Speaker 3: and writing from a woman's point of view, because It's

1120
01:00:34,776 --> 01:00:38,756
Speaker 3: just different and it allows me to go places in

1121
01:00:39,236 --> 01:00:41,096
Speaker 3: vocal range that I wouldn't be able to do for

1122
01:00:41,136 --> 01:00:45,736
Speaker 3: myself and perspective that I wouldn't do for myself. And

1123
01:00:45,756 --> 01:00:48,946
Speaker 3: so it's just interesting and cool to write for different

1124
01:00:48,986 --> 01:00:49,946
Speaker 3: characters in the show.

1125
01:00:50,266 --> 01:00:52,846
Speaker 1: Is it strange that because, you know, usually you sit

1126
01:00:52,886 --> 01:00:56,426
Speaker 1: down and come up with songs for an album and

1127
01:00:56,466 --> 01:00:59,006
Speaker 1: those sort of live on. As a part of you. Like,

1128
01:00:59,046 --> 01:01:02,606
Speaker 1: if you go on tour, they're your songs now. They're

1129
01:01:02,646 --> 01:01:05,056
Speaker 1: not really going to go on tour if John Legend's

1130
01:01:05,136 --> 01:01:05,536
Speaker 1: on tour.

1131
01:01:05,556 --> 01:01:07,396
Speaker 2: Well, my songs get covered a lot, too.

1132
01:01:07,756 --> 01:01:08,016
Speaker 1: Sure.

1133
01:01:08,776 --> 01:01:10,296
Speaker 2: And I love hearing covers.

1134
01:01:10,336 --> 01:01:13,136
Speaker 3: Like, I heard Benson Boone doing All of Me on

1135
01:01:13,176 --> 01:01:18,566
Speaker 3: his last tour, and it was so beautiful. And on Instagram,

1136
01:01:18,586 --> 01:01:21,246
Speaker 3: I'll just get people sending me their covers all the time.

1137
01:01:21,686 --> 01:01:22,686
Speaker 2: And I love that, too.

1138
01:01:22,726 --> 01:01:23,126
Speaker 1: But, yeah.

1139
01:01:23,686 --> 01:01:26,406
Speaker 3: It's different writing for your own career, for your own repertoire,

1140
01:01:26,506 --> 01:01:29,226
Speaker 3: writing with the intent that you're going to be the

1141
01:01:29,286 --> 01:01:32,736
Speaker 3: one singing it, versus writing for a character, for a

1142
01:01:32,836 --> 01:01:36,796
Speaker 3: show that's going to exist beyond your own solo career.

1143
01:01:37,496 --> 01:01:39,836
Speaker 1: Hopefully 100 years.

1144
01:01:39,856 --> 01:01:42,796
Speaker 2: Some shows go on forever. There's revivals. There's all that.

1145
01:01:43,096 --> 01:01:46,696
Speaker 2: And so these songs can live forever. And it's different.

1146
01:01:47,716 --> 01:01:51,766
Speaker 3: It's an exciting new branch of my career to have

1147
01:01:51,786 --> 01:01:54,476
Speaker 3: these songs out there in the world performed by these

1148
01:01:54,536 --> 01:01:55,526
Speaker 3: amazing actors.

1149
01:01:55,956 --> 01:01:58,866
Speaker 2: And the talent on Broadway is really special.

1150
01:01:58,526 --> 01:02:01,486
Speaker 3: Because, you know, they're not only really good at singing

1151
01:02:01,506 --> 01:02:05,506
Speaker 3: these songs, but they're actors, they're dancers. You know, they

1152
01:02:05,546 --> 01:02:07,846
Speaker 3: talk about the term triple threat, like these folks are

1153
01:02:07,866 --> 01:02:08,426
Speaker 3: triple threats.

1154
01:02:08,686 --> 01:02:09,536
Speaker 2: They can do all of it.

1155
01:02:10,186 --> 01:02:14,046
Speaker 3: And it's so impressive and exciting to put my songs

1156
01:02:14,086 --> 01:02:14,726
Speaker 3: in their voices.

1157
01:02:14,906 --> 01:02:19,006
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Um, when you're talking about Delilah's Daughter 2,

1158
01:02:19,006 --> 01:02:21,706
Speaker 1: it reminded me, I forgot that you did, uh, you

1159
01:02:21,726 --> 01:02:24,746
Speaker 1: helped produce, or you, you distributed, produced, you can tell

1160
01:02:24,766 --> 01:02:27,086
Speaker 1: me what you did on it, that, uh, great Kamau

1161
01:02:27,226 --> 01:02:28,696
Speaker 1: Bell documentary. Yeah.

1162
01:02:29,036 --> 01:02:29,236
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1163
01:02:29,316 --> 01:02:33,376
Speaker 3: A thousand percent me, uh, which was about, um, what

1164
01:02:33,416 --> 01:02:37,416
Speaker 3: it means to be biracial or multiracial, um, in America.

1165
01:02:38,116 --> 01:02:41,156
Speaker 2: And, uh, my kids, you know, are black and Asian.

1166
01:02:41,176 --> 01:02:47,676
Speaker 3: And, um, I think especially in 2026, it's just a

1167
01:02:47,756 --> 01:02:50,416
Speaker 3: modern part of reality that there are so many people

1168
01:02:50,796 --> 01:02:56,406
Speaker 3: who identify as biracial or multiracial. And I thought Kamau

1169
01:02:57,646 --> 01:02:59,926
Speaker 3: went about the storytelling in such a cool way because

1170
01:03:00,386 --> 01:03:04,266
Speaker 3: he talked about his own daughters and his own family

1171
01:03:04,466 --> 01:03:07,226
Speaker 3: and talked about, you know, a lot of other kids

1172
01:03:07,326 --> 01:03:09,236
Speaker 3: and families around the.

1173
01:03:09,126 --> 01:03:11,496
Speaker 2: San Francisco Bay Area where he lived.

1174
01:03:12,176 --> 01:03:15,796
Speaker 3: And I thought the story had so much heart and

1175
01:03:16,916 --> 01:03:19,296
Speaker 3: so much connection to the way people are living these days.

1176
01:03:19,716 --> 01:03:21,116
Speaker 3: And we were proud to help produce that.

1177
01:03:21,456 --> 01:03:23,726
Speaker 1: It was great, man. My kids are black and Mexican.

1178
01:03:23,736 --> 01:03:25,236
Speaker 1: So we showed it to them.

1179
01:03:25,296 --> 01:03:25,626
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1180
01:03:25,756 --> 01:03:28,326
Speaker 1: You know. As a parent, you think it's, I mean,

1181
01:03:28,366 --> 01:03:30,886
Speaker 1: I think it seemed at that time to really resonate.

1182
01:03:30,946 --> 01:03:31,326
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1183
01:03:31,546 --> 01:03:32,766
Speaker 1: You hope it kind of sticks with them.

1184
01:03:32,866 --> 01:03:33,126
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1185
01:03:33,286 --> 01:03:35,986
Speaker 1: But I'm sure it will in some way. It was cool, man.

1186
01:03:36,186 --> 01:03:37,226
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1187
01:03:38,066 --> 01:03:40,736
Speaker 1: You're doing a lot. So thanks for taking the time.

1188
01:03:40,756 --> 01:03:42,016
Speaker 2: I'm so happy we got to do this.

1189
01:03:42,036 --> 01:03:43,296
Speaker 1: I don't know how you have the time to do

1190
01:03:43,356 --> 01:03:46,596
Speaker 1: anything else but work. This is work, I guess. But

1191
01:03:46,616 --> 01:03:47,076
Speaker 1: thank you, man.

1192
01:03:47,116 --> 01:03:47,696
Speaker 2: I appreciate you.

1193
01:04:05,016 --> 01:04:07,996
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

1194
01:04:08,076 --> 01:04:11,236
Speaker 1: and ad-free listening for $ 4. 99 a month. Look for Pushkin

1195
01:04:11,256 --> 01:04:14,686
Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcast Subscriptions. And if you like this show,

1196
01:04:14,806 --> 01:04:16,666
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

1197
01:04:16,706 --> 01:04:20,206
Speaker 1: podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.