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Speaker 1: I'm very pleased to have with me today Minnesota's third

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Speaker 1: District Congressman Dean Phillips. Welcome, Congressman.

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Speaker 2: Good to be with you, Steve, as.

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Speaker 1: We're doing this. Two things I'd like you to react

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Speaker 1: to that are just popping now. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you are like me. I am never surprised, but I

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Speaker 1: am constantly astonished when I read whatever it is i'm

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Speaker 1: reading in the morning. And so there's this quote by

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy analyzing the situation playing out in the House

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Speaker 1: of Representatives and he basically says, I can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's just people here who just want to

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Speaker 1: burn the place down. And I absorbed that, ponder it

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Speaker 1: for a second. And I've known him for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I've known him since he was in the California legislature.

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Speaker 1: So my reaction to that as well, Oh no shit, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: you know better late than never. Eureka. What's your reaction

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Speaker 1: to that? Are you are you astonished? Did that came

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Speaker 1: out of his mouth?

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Speaker 2: Well? I have to say, Steve, that, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't wish his job right now on my worst enemy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is it's an almost unwinnable, irretractable circumstance

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Speaker 2: in which he finds himself. But to your question, no, well, yeah, astonished,

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Speaker 2: but not surprised. And you know, I look back at

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Speaker 2: Speaker Pelosi's tenure and the way that she kind of

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Speaker 2: laid down the law with those who might disrupt her

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Speaker 2: agenda early, I think made somewhat clear her position. Got

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Speaker 2: the rest of the the caucus in my side, the

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Speaker 2: conference of course, on the Joe Peda to understand the

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Speaker 2: game plan, and she was awfully effective. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to agree with her pop policy or approach, but in

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Speaker 2: terms of leadership, frankly one of the best I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: McCarthy's in a very different circumstances. But I do think

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Speaker 2: it's fair to say that without establishing a trust, be

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Speaker 2: the game plan and whose side you're really on early,

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Speaker 2: you've got ambiguity, and we're seeing that right now. And

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Speaker 2: not only is the detriment to the GOP, which I think,

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Speaker 2: like you, I want to see a principled conservative party

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Speaker 2: in America. We don't have that right now. And I

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Speaker 2: think he missed an opportunity, sadly to establish his leadership

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Speaker 2: and now finds himself both sacrificing his party, but more importantly,

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Speaker 2: the country.

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Speaker 1: The second thing is that as we're doing this, the

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Speaker 1: chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from my home

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Speaker 1: state of New Jersey has been indicted on multiple counts

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Speaker 1: of corruption, basic bribery, and all of these things. But

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Speaker 1: within the indictment is that he is doing favors for

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Speaker 1: cash from the chairmanship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

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Speaker 1: for the government of Egypt. Your reaction, I'm appalled.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Steve, how can you look at any of

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Speaker 2: this evidence, see the report, see the indictment and not

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Speaker 2: be appalled. And I say time and time again, I

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Speaker 2: don't give a hoot about your politics. I do care

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Speaker 2: about your principles, and I don't care if it's a

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Speaker 2: Democrat or Republican. I think it's appalling. You know, he's

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Speaker 2: got every right to remain innocent until proven guilty. This

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Speaker 2: is round two for him. What I've seen in this

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Speaker 2: indictment is disgusting. I personally think he should resign. I

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Speaker 2: would expect if this was reversed and it was a Democrat.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure my colleagues on the other side would expect that.

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Speaker 2: And as someone who's served on the House Ethics Committee

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Speaker 2: for two terms Steve and found it disappointing how poorly

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Speaker 2: resourced and poorly effective we were. How the lack of

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Speaker 2: effectiveness is really disappointing. And I don't think we have

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Speaker 2: internal mechanisms to hold people accountable. I think George Soros, George,

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Speaker 2: why can I? I always say, George Soros, he's in

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Speaker 2: the news too often. Santos, George Santos.

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Speaker 1: You're not alone. You're not alone, and makes those two up.

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Speaker 1: I wonder why time and writing. You know, they obviously

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with one another, but.

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Speaker 2: I some would have us believe they do, which is

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Speaker 2: the more interesting conversation, maybe for later. But George Santos,

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Speaker 2: he should have resigned, you know, the Speaker should have

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Speaker 2: encouraged that, because if we're going to restore faith in government,

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Speaker 2: which I know is a shared interest of yours and

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Speaker 2: mind and most people in America, it starts with holding

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Speaker 2: people accountable. And yes, he's going to step down from

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Speaker 2: the Foreign Relations Committee as chairman because that's a Senate rule,

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Speaker 2: But my goodness, I think it's time to resign and

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Speaker 2: turn that seat over to somebody more principal.

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Speaker 1: In January of nineteen sixty and I wrote about this today.

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Speaker 1: John Kennedy gives speech and it's about the presidency in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, and he offers a philosophical frame on it.

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Speaker 1: And in the end he tells a story about Abraham Lincoln,

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Speaker 1: and he says that the Lincoln model is as much

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Speaker 1: to his liking. And he tells the story of Lincoln

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Speaker 1: signing the Emancipation Proclamation and Lincoln says to those around

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Speaker 1: him as he's signing it that if he is remembered

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Speaker 1: for anything, it will be this, and he wants them

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Speaker 1: to know that his whole heart is in it, and

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Speaker 1: that if his hand trembled, people will say that he hesitated

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Speaker 1: as he signed this, which I think is a rupture

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Speaker 1: in history, a profound moment of importance in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And Kennedy concludes this speech by saying, but his hand

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Speaker 1: did not waiver, for he was the president of the

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Speaker 1: United States. We have an election where three quarters of

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Speaker 1: the country is saying, don't want it. Now. We have

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Speaker 1: a politics where the media, such as it is, and

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Speaker 1: I'm being overly broad and describing it, but tells the

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Speaker 1: American people the country is hopelessly divided and evenly divided. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. I'll give you three examples. One is

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Speaker 1: immig to his guns, and the third is what they

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Speaker 1: want as a choice in the election. Now you have

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Speaker 1: two political parties that the American people are told never

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Speaker 1: agree with each other on anything. Yet they seem to

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Speaker 1: be an agreement that you're gonna get what you get

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Speaker 1: and like what you get. My question is, how do

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Speaker 1: you think that works out? Not from a partisan perspective,

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Speaker 1: but from a sociological perspective. As someone I know who

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Speaker 1: is an acute observer of the American character.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I reflect back on President Washington's farewell address.

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Speaker 2: I know you know it well and probably many watching

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Speaker 2: right now, and he shared with this new nation that

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Speaker 2: his grave concerns were factions which were political parties, which

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Speaker 2: course did not exist when he was president, and regionalism, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, we've got an urban rural divide in

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Speaker 2: this country that is dangerous, and also foreign interference. And

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Speaker 2: look at all three two hundred and some years later,

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Speaker 2: all at the forefront, and frankly are duopoly. Our political

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Speaker 2: industrial complex, as I call it, is to me antithetical

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Speaker 2: to the pure representational democracy that I think our founders

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Speaker 2: really intended they were mortified about political parties. I don't

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Speaker 2: think they ever envisioned there would be a duopoly like

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Speaker 2: we have now. And to your point, it seems that

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Speaker 2: the powers that be on both sides of the aisle

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Speaker 2: agree on one thing and one thing only, and that

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Speaker 2: is perpetuating the status quo. I think regularly Steve about

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Speaker 2: whether or not it's time for competition. I've argued publicly

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Speaker 2: I think the Democratic bench should rise right now and

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Speaker 2: provide competition in a primary. It's healthy, provides better product

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Speaker 2: at better value. It doesn't matter if it's people or

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Speaker 2: a consumer product. That's the truth. I also think both

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Speaker 2: parties could use a little bit of competition right now.

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Speaker 2: We have this dynamic that you know, well, there's magnetism

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Speaker 2: to the corners, and only a third party that could

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Speaker 2: triangulate power to some degree, could push us to the middle.

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Speaker 2: And as a member of the problem solvers Caucus in Congress,

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Speaker 2: I think that's a good example thirty two Democrats, thirty

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Speaker 2: two Republicans that serve somewhat as that magnet for the middle.

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Speaker 2: We don't operate like a party. I wish we did

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Speaker 2: more often, but that's I think what a the country needs.

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Speaker 2: That's what I think the country is begging for. And

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Speaker 2: I believe only recently, in the first time in modern history,

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Speaker 2: have those who consider themselves independent been more numerous than

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Speaker 2: those who identify as Democrats and Republicans. That does not

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Speaker 2: mean that they will vote for an independent candidate immediately

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Speaker 2: for president, but it surely means that they're disgusted with

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Speaker 2: the system. And frankly understand why.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scarborough said something on Morning Joe a week or

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Speaker 1: so back that is very true. Now, there was a

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Speaker 1: behavior amongst Republicans that I watched from the green room,

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Speaker 1: that I watched from the television sets during my decade

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Speaker 1: as an analyst at MSNBC, and it was people saying

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Speaker 1: one thing off camera and the complete opposite on camera,

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Speaker 1: and then watching that metastasize over the seven year basis

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Speaker 1: into an unbending, unyielding cult of personality where you are required,

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Speaker 1: if you're a member of such culti personality, to submit

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Speaker 1: what is true right, your own intellectual agency and sovereignty. Right,

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Speaker 1: you know, goes through the prism of well, the leader

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Speaker 1: will tell you what it's true. What Joe Scarborough says,

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Speaker 1: it's not a single Democrat, which is true. Who comes

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Speaker 1: on air, ever, not one who after praising Biden is

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Speaker 1: the greatest president since FDR doesn't as soon as that

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Speaker 1: camera goes off say I'm really worried. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he can win. What what do you say about that?

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Speaker 1: And do you get the cynicism that that injects into

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Speaker 1: the system.

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Speaker 2: Damn right, five years ago, before I was serving in Congress,

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Speaker 2: I was one of those cynics. I was becoming appalled

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Speaker 2: at what I sense was exactly what is occurring. By

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Speaker 2: the way, Joe can only say that because he has

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Speaker 2: not had me on his show yet, I think I'm

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Speaker 2: the only Democrat that has said the quiet part out

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Speaker 2: loud with you can imagine. Not only is there no reward,

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Speaker 2: it's a damn good way to end a career in politics,

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Speaker 2: particularly with our two party system, but I feel compelled

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Speaker 2: to speak the truth because the reason I did this

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Speaker 2: in the first place, I was tired of watching the

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Speaker 2: same thing you're just describing. It's not unique to one

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Speaker 2: party or the other. It's a disease. It's a disease

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Speaker 2: authenticity of truth. And frankly, for we Democrats, I think

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Speaker 2: it's even more important. I think the bar should be

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Speaker 2: a little bit higher for us because we're emerging as

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Speaker 2: the party of truth, one of the only party of

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Speaker 2: truth right now in the country. And that's why I

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Speaker 2: think on questions like Senator Menendez, on questions like not

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Speaker 2: what do you think of Joe Biden? I think Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden's a wonderful, compassionate, decent, competent man. I think his

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Speaker 2: administration did a fine job of being the bridge that

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Speaker 2: he promised. That's a different question. What you think of

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Speaker 2: the president, you think of his policy, then what do

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Speaker 2: you think about the future. I just look at the numbers,

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Speaker 2: just like you do, Steve, and it's so clear, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know how Americans can comport their representatives who

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Speaker 2: see the same numbers, live in their same communities, hear

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Speaker 2: the same conversations, and yet are unwilling to simply say

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Speaker 2: it when there's a light on and a camera lens

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Speaker 2: open and look at If you can't do it, then,

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Speaker 2: of course, if you're an American citizen, you think they're

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Speaker 2: probably not telling the truth about anything. And that is

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Speaker 2: part of this crisis that I think we're facing in

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Speaker 2: our country, and we need leaders on both sides of

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Speaker 2: the aisle to emerge who are willing to say the truth.

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Speaker 2: We also need a political reward for it. That's the

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Speaker 2: problem right now, Steve. Why would people pursue something that

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Speaker 2: would end their careers or tarnish their legacies. You look

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Speaker 2: at Liz Cheney, who just for pursuing principle, not only

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Speaker 2: was removed from GOP leadership where she was number three,

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Speaker 2: probably would have been Speaker of the House one day,

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Speaker 2: but essentially remove from the entire because of one thing,

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Speaker 2: not because she wasn't conservative enough. She was the most

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Speaker 2: conservative member of the House of Representatives according to the

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Speaker 2: Heritage Foundation. She pursued principle, and look at what happened.

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Speaker 2: So you can imagine why do any of my colleagues

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Speaker 2: look at that and say, WHOA, I'm going to try

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Speaker 2: to do the same thing. You know. By the way,

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Speaker 2: there's a wonderful book about Hubert Humphrey out right now

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Speaker 2: that tells the same remarkable story of a young Minneapolis

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Speaker 2: mayor who was counseled to not get in front of

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Speaker 2: his party in nineteen forty eight in Philadelphia and exclaim

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Speaker 2: that it was time for them to get out of

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Speaker 2: the shadow of States Rights into the bright light of

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Speaker 2: human rights. He was counseled that if he took those

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Speaker 2: ten minutes and made that case, that his career was over.

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Speaker 2: And when you think of that trembling hand, he trembled

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Speaker 2: a lot before he issued that speech, but it actually

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Speaker 2: created his entire career. There would be no Hubert Humphrey

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Speaker 2: who became senator and vice president and almost president if

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Speaker 2: he didn't show that courage to speak the truth to

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Speaker 2: a party that was not ready to hear it. You know,

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Speaker 2: the absence of that kind of courage politics right now

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Speaker 2: is dangerous, and I think something that we should all

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Speaker 2: be speaking about. I see the potential in many of

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Speaker 2: my colleagues, but I also see the fear, and that

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Speaker 2: is part of what I call the entertainment problem, and

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Speaker 2: people are holding people accountable, frankly, for what they want

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Speaker 2: to hear, not what they need to hear.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about fear for a second. What percentage of

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Speaker 1: your colleagues do you assess as being fearful to be

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Speaker 1: in a crowd in a situation where politics is the venue.

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Speaker 2: I would argue a majority. It's hard. It's hard when

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Speaker 2: we have a system that attacks you for being honest,

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Speaker 2: that catches you misstating one word that can be career ending.

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Speaker 2: That's something that we have to reckon with as a culture.

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Speaker 2: I understand why people would be fearful. Look at I

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Speaker 2: ran against a guy in twenty eighteen, Eric Paulson, who

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Speaker 2: was notorious for being a good guy, a decent guy,

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Speaker 2: a relatively moderate guy, but who did not want to

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Speaker 2: show up in front of people. He was part of

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Speaker 2: GOP leadership. I think he was conscientious of wanting to

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Speaker 2: say the truth, but knowing that in those forms it

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Speaker 2: would be too complicated. I use that as my mechanism

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Speaker 2: to win election. I did an ad that featured Bigfoot

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Speaker 2: of all people to try to find Eric Pulson. So

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Speaker 2: I understand, and I think it is part of the problem.

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Speaker 2: By the way, a lot of my colleagues are scared

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Speaker 2: for their safety right now. Increasingly, my Republican colleagues are

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Speaker 2: more fearful of angry Trumpers than they are of Democrats.

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Speaker 2: I know friends that have retired from Congress, good conservative

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Speaker 2: members of Congress who've retired rather than subject their family

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Speaker 2: to the threats and to the fear. Many of my

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Speaker 2: Democratic colleagues, of course, facing the same. They're fearful of

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Speaker 2: having to be shamed for telling the truth. They're also

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Speaker 2: fearful for their safety, and they're human beings. And if

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Speaker 2: there's anything if there's no other lesson I've learned in

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Speaker 2: Congress so far, is that every one of us, whether

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Speaker 2: it's the President to House leadership, Senate leadership, every one

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Speaker 2: of us is a human being, and we're fallible. We

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Speaker 2: have good days, we have bad days, and we have fears,

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Speaker 2: and I think we should provide a little bit more

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Speaker 2: space and place for humanity on both sides of the eye.

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Speaker 1: I know Liz Cheney extremely well, been friends with her

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Speaker 1: for a long time, worked for her father in the

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Speaker 1: White House. In part ran a campaign for John McCain

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Speaker 1: against against Mitt Romney, who's a pretty buttoned up guy.

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Speaker 1: Both Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney lost it at the

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Speaker 1: People the Day correctly held responsible for inciting this man

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Speaker 1: this on on January sixth. That you're there, and so

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Speaker 1: you are probably a better person than I am, A

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Speaker 1: and B being from Minnesota and Minnesota, ay, so I'm

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Speaker 1: from New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: No such thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how I could conceivably restrain

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Speaker 1: myself if I was a member of Congress from commenting

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Speaker 1: in a way that may not make my kids proud.

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Speaker 1: Right if I hear a Republican member worrying about the

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Speaker 1: safety of their personage in the district from the chaos

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Speaker 1: that they've let loose, And I'm just wondering, when you

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Speaker 1: are around these people in close proximity, against what I

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Speaker 1: know is the fierceness of your convictions, the depth of

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Speaker 1: your patriotism, how do you keep the contempt from boiling over?

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Speaker 1: How do you even function?

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Speaker 2: Not easily? Constitution not easily, And it's a daily struggle,

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Speaker 2: I think for many of us, there's no question. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I was in the House chamber on January sixth, trapped

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Speaker 2: with about twenty colleagues in the gallery. Most of those

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Speaker 2: on the floor escaped. We faced about fifteen to twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes where we really did think Steve that it was

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Speaker 2: the end. Didn't know at that time that they weren't

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Speaker 2: all armed and pursuing us, distinctly assumed they were. And

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Speaker 2: my colleagues in tears, making calls and texting home to

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Speaker 2: say goodbye. It was a horrifying experience for fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: Anybody who's been through trauma of any kind, I have

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Speaker 2: empathy for particularly those who believe that their lives are

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Speaker 2: coming to close. And when we got out of the

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Speaker 2: chamber and escaped to a safe place, I was with

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Speaker 2: Liz Cheney and a bunch of Republicans and Democrats when

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Speaker 2: Trump came on TV and Liz Cheney pointed to the

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Speaker 2: TV and said, he's responsible. It's time we hold him

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Speaker 2: to account and Steve. There were accolades, there were applause.

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Speaker 2: There was unanimity in a way that I literally have

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Speaker 2: not experienced in Congress since and never had before, where

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Speaker 2: we just simply felt aligned. And it was a beautiful,

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Speaker 2: memorable moment. And I looked now to what happened to her,

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Speaker 2: to Adam Kinsinger, to others, the ten that voted to

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Speaker 2: impeach him where he was surely guilty. I think nine

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Speaker 2: of them are gone now nine few of them on

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Speaker 2: their own accord. More of them we removed by primaries.

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Speaker 2: And that alone makes it harder, not just the lack

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Speaker 2: of principle sometimes that I have to confront, but to

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Speaker 2: know that the people that had the courage weren't supported,

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Speaker 2: weren't protected, weren't defended, That to me is more heartbreaking,

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Speaker 2: more dangerous, and more consequential than just about anything. And

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Speaker 2: now with all that said, Steve, you know, we can't

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Speaker 2: choose our family, we can't choose our coworkers. And you know,

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Speaker 2: damn I'm elected to do a job. If I don't

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Speaker 2: meet people in the middle, if I don't find the

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Speaker 2: humanity and everybody, it makes it impossible. And that's my job.

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Speaker 2: On foreign affairs too, I've got to sit with world

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Speaker 2: leaders and representatives of governments that are not good people,

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Speaker 2: that don't treat their people with respect, some of them

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Speaker 2: even kill them. It's not comfortable, it's not easy, and

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Speaker 2: it's incompatible and congruent with my principles. But in democracy,

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Speaker 2: we got to do a job. And I find every

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Speaker 2: day the courage to do that. And I got to

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Speaker 2: tell you the problem. Solvers Caucus is a remarkable table

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Speaker 2: at which we don't just sit together, we open our

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Speaker 2: hearts together. And after January sixth, we had challenges. We

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Speaker 2: had to sit down as a family. We have Democrats

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Speaker 2: and Republicans, share our perspective, be forthright and honest, and

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Speaker 2: that's what you do. And if you do that, at

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Speaker 2: least you can find some common ground, you can grant

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Speaker 2: some forgiveness. It doesn't always make it easy, but at

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Speaker 2: least it provides some space for humanity. There are some

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Speaker 2: on the other side of the aisle that I cannot stand,

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Speaker 2: that I detest, that I think are dangerous to our

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Speaker 2: country and frankly the world. But the overwhelming majority of

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Speaker 2: my GOP colleagues, despite my disappointment in them, I have

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Speaker 2: a responsibility and I'm going to pursue it. But damn

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Speaker 2: it's hard. Sometimes it's hard sometimes.

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Speaker 1: What's the demarcation line, right, what's the disappointment line? Right?

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Speaker 1: I'll give you somebody you know that I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll put I'll put in my disappointment category is Lamar Alexander,

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Speaker 1: somebody that I worked for, very decent human being, but

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Speaker 1: did not rise to the level of his potential really

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Speaker 1: in a career of public service, right, you know. So

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Speaker 1: he's the youngest governor in Tennessee history in nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 1: but really, right, you know, we Lamar Alexander's starring role,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, was that he passed up. Was this

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Speaker 1: vacant moment in twenty sixteen to twenty twenty where you know,

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Speaker 1: we have a combination of people who get the taste

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Speaker 1: of sedition on their tongue and like it. And people

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Speaker 1: who become wallflowers as the extremism, you know, rises all

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Speaker 1: around them, and a very very few, you know, who

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Speaker 1: become lions in the in the in the moment in

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Speaker 1: defense of all of this stuff. And I guess what

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Speaker 1: percentage of these people, for you are on that disappointment

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Speaker 1: side of the line versus the threat side of the line?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what what is the threat? Is it twenty

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Speaker 1: five thirty percent of them? What's the what's the how

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Speaker 1: do you? How do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: In my estimation, see, there are probably a dozen House

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Speaker 2: members that I think are incompetent and dangerous, sometimes by ignorance,

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Speaker 2: sometimes by intention. But I would say that makes you know,

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Speaker 2: ninety some percent in the category of somewhat disappointed. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, look like friends and family and people

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Speaker 2: we care deeply about, we can be disappointed in them

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Speaker 2: for a whole host reasons, but doesn't mean it has

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Speaker 2: to end the relationship. Doesn't mean that you condemn them forever.

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Speaker 2: But that's that's probably the right ratio in the Senate.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's got to be the same. What startles

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Speaker 2: me and shot me is it's sometimes the best educated,

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Speaker 2: the most pedigreed, people who are the most disappointing, and

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Speaker 2: frankly who are the most threatening because they're using those

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Speaker 2: platforms that experience in remarkably savvy, intentional and I think,

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Speaker 2: very dangerous ways. And I think they know who they are,

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Speaker 2: and you know who they are. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, it's also leadership. You know, Kevin McCarthy

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Speaker 2: came to the floor and essentially held Trump accountable, only

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Speaker 2: to go to Marrow Lagos soon thereafter and kiss the ring.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's sad and that's dangerous. And I just

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Speaker 2: to your point, there are a lack of lions and

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Speaker 2: we need them. We need them now. I also have

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Speaker 2: to say this, though, you know, when you face these

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Speaker 2: moments of if I speak the truth and I know

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Speaker 2: that's removal or losing an election, you have a choice

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Speaker 2: to make. Is it better to still be at the table?

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Speaker 2: I think about I think of about doctor Burke's I

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Speaker 2: think about Anthony Fauci. I think about others who served

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Speaker 2: in the last administration at that table, people who probably

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Speaker 2: knew it was not in their best interest professionally, personally,

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Speaker 2: or otherwise reputationally to sit on that cabinet to sit

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Speaker 2: in that administration. I think some actually chose to do

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Speaker 2: so for the right reasons, and history probably won't recognize that.

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Speaker 2: So I do understand why sometimes you have to plug

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Speaker 2: the nose or bite the tongue and do the things

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Speaker 2: that are sometimes uncomfortable. But the pervasiveness of this and

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Speaker 2: the fact that it frankly could have been prevented if

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Speaker 2: and this is I guess this should be the basis

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Speaker 2: of this whole conversation. There would be no Trumpism if

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Speaker 2: Americans felt heard, if they felt appreciated, if they felt

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Speaker 2: their issues were being addressed, and if they felt they

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Speaker 2: had access. And every damn one of my colleagues, because

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Speaker 2: of the system, not their fault, because of the system,

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Speaker 2: has to spend ten thousand hours per week collectively raising money.

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Speaker 2: And from whom do you raise money? People that have it?

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Speaker 2: So is it surprising that the overwhelming majority of people

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Speaker 2: throughout this country, really good people of all kinds of politics,

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Speaker 2: are disappointed and disgusted, And then they see news about

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Speaker 2: Santos and about Menendez and corruption and bribery and a

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Speaker 2: lack of principle. I understand why they think the whole

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Speaker 2: place is broken. And as someone who's trying to restore

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Speaker 2: that faith and sees it so clearly, you know, there

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Speaker 2: are some foundational things we could change, we should have changed.

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Speaker 2: And I hold frankly past administrations, past members of Congress,

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Speaker 2: past leaders in Congress as accountable because I feel they

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Speaker 2: weren't doing their fundamental jobs of listening and representing people

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Speaker 2: who are really, really angry right now. And I don't

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Speaker 2: want to dismiss that anger of trump Ism. Many Trumpers

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Speaker 2: voted for Barack Obama for goodness sakes, they may have

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00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: voted for Bernie Sanders had he been the nominee. They

431
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: want somebody to burn the place down. And I'm not

432
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: surprised at some of my colleagues buy into that very

433
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 2: They're doing it right now, Steve. They're burning the place

434
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: down because that's the culture of this movement right now.

435
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 2: It's a culture of anger. So yes, I'm disappointed now.

436
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: I'm probably even more disappointed in past leaders who were

437
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: in their suits on national TV every night in Washington,

438
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: DC and didn't spend enough downtime at home, listening, learning

439
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: and representing. And that, to me is the foundational foundational

440
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: reason that we're facing this quagmire in which we find ourselves.

441
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: One hundred years ago, nineteen twenty three, Warren Harding as

442
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: a heart attack in San Francisco. When he dies, he's

443
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: literally he's the most popular president the country's ever had

444
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: at the at the moment of his death, with the

445
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: possible exception of George Washington. It's the Roaring twenties, right

446
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Did the French call it the and fall the crazy years?

447
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: That is not the case in Germany. Nineteen twenties are

448
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: angry years. And I think, and I've called this decade

449
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: the angry twenties. Are we living in why more America?

450
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: I sure, seck hope not. But I think the analogy

451
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: is a very important one to make because that anger

452
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 2: is I think the same the scapegoating of a people,

453
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: in this case anti semitism, racism. The fact that that's rising,

454
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: I think is congruent with what we saw in that

455
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: era in Germany. We saw a country that felt disenfranchised, unappreciated, unheard,

456
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: kind of shamed and the other. And I think that's

457
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: how a lot of Americans feel right now, and I

458
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 2: do not want to shame them. That's a natural human feeling.

459
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: And we elected officials have a responsibility to listen to

460
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: them to prevent what happened in Germany. Never have we

461
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: ever seen country, a democratic nation move from relative principle

462
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: into authoritarianism and to dictatorship of such whores that were

463
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich. So if we don't

464
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: look at that, if we're not students of history and

465
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: recognize that, we still have time. But if we don't

466
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: do something, that anger is only going to metastasize. It

467
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: won't be unique to one party or the other, and

468
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: it will spread geographically and otherwise. And I'm concerned. I

469
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: don't want to say I'm concerned about what Germany became

470
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties and what they did to the world,

471
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: but sure I'm concerned about our democracy, about our integrity,

472
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: about our unity, about the very things that George Washington

473
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: warned us about. So I wish we would be mindful

474
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: of that. And I do believe. And this is the

475
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: good news, Steve. It's untold, it's underappreciated, unrecognized. But most

476
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: member of Congress, despite their policy differences, despite disappointments sometimes

477
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: and the unwillingness to be principled, overwhelmingly decent people. Most

478
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: of the country will not know who they are because

479
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: we only reward the troublemakers, the bombastic, the dividers. But

480
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: I do want people to know whether it's the sixty

481
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: four at the problem solvers table, whether it's the overwhelming

482
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: majority of people from around the country. I do think

483
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: we all want the same things. I think we have

484
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: a reward system that's perverse, and I think we have

485
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: too many people too focused on winning the next election

486
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: and not focused enough on really listening to people. Democrats

487
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: have to get out into rural America and really intentionally listen.

488
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: Republicans have to spend a little bit of time in

489
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: suburban and urban America and understand what we face in

490
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: suburban urban America and recognize that we have shared problems

491
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: that require shared solutions, and we have a shared obligation

492
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: to prevent God forbid, another civil war, to prevent the

493
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: erosion of national integrity and unity. It's not rocket science,

494
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: it's pretty darn human and we have time, but we

495
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: got to get to it. And I'm grateful that I

496
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: do have some colleagues and I think I can count

497
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: on on both sides to bring us there.

498
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk about generational change in this country.

499
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: How do you think about it?

500
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: Well, I'm fifty four years old, and I'm about three

501
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: years younger than the median age in the United States House.

502
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a youngin I think that number is

503
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: sixty five years old in the Senate, and you know

504
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not ageist. Genera Generational change is one thing,

505
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: but what I really care about is generational diversity because

506
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: back to our founders, the People's House in particular is

507
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: supposed to be as representational of the United States of

508
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: America as humanly possible, and we're not. And not only that, Steve,

509
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: we are not populated with people with the competencies that

510
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: we need to address some really important issues today, many

511
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: of them based on high tech, hard to understand concepts

512
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: that require either engineers, coders and people in generations that

513
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: have much better holistic understanding of these challenges. Artificial intelligence, fintech,

514
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: a climate change. There are some issues that really require

515
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: younger people in perspective. So I'm not saying we should

516
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: have a Congress that's all twenty eight and thirty two

517
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: years old. But I'm saying is that we have too

518
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: many people who make a long career out of something

519
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: that should be short term, should be service oriented and

520
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: not a lifelong profession. And when you're here thirty forty years,

521
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: I think that does two things. Prevents a younger generation

522
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: and the best and brightest of Americans from even finding

523
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: space in place to participate, and it generates complacency because

524
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: we're human. And that's why I do favor I know

525
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: I'm an outlier as a Democrat, but I favor term

526
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: limits because I think that would help. And then, lastly,

527
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: most importantly, Steve, I see how my colleagues vote, interact,

528
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: position themselves, and communicate when their career or their tenures

529
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: coming to an end, and that independence. John McCain was

530
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: a perfect example of that perfect example. I think when

531
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: he gave the thumbs down to the ACA repeal, when

532
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: he knew his career was coming to an end, he

533
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: did something bold, courageous. Would he have done so if

534
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: he was going to serve another six years, I don't know,

535
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: but I see behavior like that from so many who

536
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: are liberated when they know that they don't have to

537
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: stand for reelection. And I think we should develop a

538
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: culture and invest in that kind of culture. I think the

539
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: only way to do so is by limiting terms, you

540
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: don't have at least a third of the United States

541
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: Congress that would be free to do what's best for

542
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: the country, not what's best for their careers.

543
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: I never would have underestimated John's capacity to figure out

544
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: how to give a middle finger on the floor. That

545
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: was very well that was very well earned, and it will, Yes,

546
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: it will be remembered for a long time. I want

547
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: to just do you ever look at the generational change

548
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: issue through the lens of it being a moral proposition?

549
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. It hasn't been asked

550
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 2: in that way before, but I do believe so, Yes,

551
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: it should be looked at through that lens. It should

552
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: be looked at through the lens of representation, by the way,

553
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: I think it should be looked at, first and foremost

554
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: through the lens of participation. You know, the generations that

555
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: we most need to engage, the most need to be

556
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: inspired to serve the public are the very generations we're

557
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: talking about. And like anything else, if you don't have

558
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: an interest, exposure, ambition at early stages of your life,

559
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: it's harder to capture public servants well into their careers.

560
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: So I think it's a moral imperative that we engage

561
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: young people, we invest in civic education, which has been

562
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 2: diminished and disappointingly so I think now for many generations.

563
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: I'm working on a lot of plans right now, Steve.

564
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: Relative to national service propositions, how do we not just

565
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: inspire military service, but Peace Corps, AmeriCorps. How do we,

566
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 2: if not mandate, because I think that would be hard,

567
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: how do we encourage and inspire reward young people who

568
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: wish to take a year before they enter the workforce

569
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: and serve our nation in some way, shape or form.

570
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: That is also a moral imperative. I look to countries

571
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: that are doing that right now. They are more cohesive,

572
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: they're more connected, they're more unified, and they're more patriotic.

573
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: And I think that is another obligation of ours. And

574
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: you know, I think the youngest member of the House

575
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: right now is Maxwell Frost. I think he's in his

576
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: late twenties, and you know, it'll take him some time

577
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: to get up to total speed. He's a remarkably talented

578
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: young man at that age. I sure could have served

579
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: in Congress when I was in my late twenties. But

580
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: I think just from a purely representational perspective, we have

581
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: to have more young people in Congress to make their cases,

582
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: to do the listening, to introduce and inject into Congress

583
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: some twenty first century thinking, and frankly, socially, I have

584
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: to say, I think the social design of Congress's flawed.

585
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: The organizational design is shirley flawed, and the physical design

586
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 2: of Congress is flawed. The social design would be improved

587
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: with a younger generation, at least enough of the younger

588
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: generation being participants, and we need it and we should

589
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 2: open those doors. And lastly, when you have to raise

590
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: ten fifteen, twenty million dollars to run for the United

591
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: States Congress and do it every two years, if you

592
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: don't think that's too big of a barrier to entry

593
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: to even the best and brightest middle aged folks, let

594
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: alone young people, how in the world, how in the

595
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: world can they approach something like that? So I think

596
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: we've got to really take a good hard look at

597
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: how we finance campaigns, the barriers to entry, and both parties,

598
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 2: by the way, we need young conservatives, we need young progressives,

599
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: and we should be talking more about that because if

600
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: we don't, we're going to be turning over the keys

601
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: to the very people who inspired me to get in

602
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: this business in the first place.

603
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: Last night, the President was out a fundraiser and there's

604
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: a pool report from the fundraiser that's written by Alex

605
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: Thompson at Axios, and the pool report details the president's remarks.

606
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: The President gets up and he tells the story about

607
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: what induced him to run for president, which is the

608
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: Charleston massacre, and says a few more words, and then

609
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: he almost verbatim, tells that story again in front of

610
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: a crowded, crowded room. There's the incident where he walks

611
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: off the set. There is the reality of the shortened

612
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: steps on Air Force One. There is a constancy of

613
00:38:52,640 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: befuddlements that are real and then apart from it and

614
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: no doubt unfair but reality. A billion dollar propaganda effort

615
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: has had its impact. It's scored. They've run up to score.

616
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: You have a you have a huge percentage of the

617
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: country that says he's unable to run, shouldn't run, doesn't

618
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: want him to run. And the results Right now, seven

619
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: years on from when Trump came down the escalator, despite

620
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: all the damage, is looking out, looking out at a

621
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: race where Trump is ahead and so I like to think,

622
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: I I like to think I know what I'm talking

623
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: about in the presidential race. I believe James Carvell knows

624
00:39:54,719 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: what he's talking about, and he said right now, the

625
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: reality is is that President Biden would be an underdog

626
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: in this in this race. So I just I want

627
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: to I just want to put a period on that

628
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: for a second. I was a moderate New Jersey Republican.

629
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: I could have been a Clinton Democrat. I was a

630
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: child of the eighties, and so my first election I

631
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: voted for George Herbert Walker Bush right, and I wasn't alone.

632
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: At the University of Delaware, overwhelming majority of nineteen eighty

633
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: eight of eighteen year old voted for the Republican candidate.

634
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: Though that may be right somewhat unthinkable in recent eras

635
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: that party right, the party that Horace Greeley, as it

636
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: was found, this will be the greatest party of freedom

637
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: that's ever been, the party of James Garfield in Teddy Rosevel.

638
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: It's gone, right, it has it's gone. It's it's something

639
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: that's been taken from me, right and something that as

640
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: a life experienced, almost every person I ever worked with

641
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: in politics abdicated the principles that I thought we shared.

642
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: Right to a person, what does the Democratic Party mean

643
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: to you? What should it stand for? Talk about your

644
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: feelings for the party. To me, I loved the Republican Party,

645
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: but it was insignificant to me. Against the country and

646
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 1: the country's interests, it was meaningless to me. John Kennedy

647
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: talked about this, what's the purpose of a party if

648
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: it's not to advance a great national interest? So for me,

649
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: when it detached from that, it died, died in my heart.

650
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: But what does the Democratic Party mean to you? What

651
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: does this stand for? How does it attach itself to you? Emotionally?

652
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: Let me back up to my very beginnings, which is

653
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: losing my father, Captain Ardie Pepper in the Vietnam War.

654
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: I was six months old. He took an ROTC scholarship

655
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: because he couldn't afford college. His father died when he

656
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: was a little boy. My grandma Ruth worked at a

657
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: department store to try to make ends meet, and he

658
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: was sent to Vietnam as a captain in the army

659
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: and died in the helicopter crash and played coup just

660
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 2: when I was six months old. My mom was widowed

661
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: twenty four. We lived with my great grandparents for about

662
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: two and a half years in Saint Paul, and that's

663
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 2: how my life began. I was adopted then into a

664
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: remarkable family by an amazing father, Eddie Phillips, who raised me.

665
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: And I was raised in a family that told me

666
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: a lot about anti Semitism in Minneapolis, which was a

667
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: hotbed of races in anti Semitism in the mid century.

668
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: And they were passionate, devoted supporters of Hubert Humphrey. And

669
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: I listened to their stories how this young mayor came

670
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: into the city and set up a human rights commission,

671
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: stood up for the people that were voiceless, powerless, and

672
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: they told me stories of of course, World War two

673
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: and the Holocaust, and how it was President Roosevelt that ultimately,

674
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: although of course late, came to the rescue. And in

675
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty Steve I was eleven years old. I went

676
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 2: to school one morning and who shows up to speak

677
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: at our assembly but John Anderson, who I didn't know

678
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 2: at the time. All I knew he was running for president,

679
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: and he spoke to us, and I remember two things.

680
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: He talked about the need for independence in our politics.

681
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: Of course, he was a Republican from Illinois running as

682
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: an independent, and he talked about money in politics that day,

683
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: none of which meant a lot to me at the time.

684
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: I went to dinner that night in Minneapolis with my

685
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: grandparents and my great grandparents. My parents. My grandmother was

686
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: the advice columnist Dear Abbey, and I remember telling her

687
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: that evening at dinner that this man who's going to

688
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 2: win the presidency came to speak to us, and she

689
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: reminded me that if he was speaking to a bunch

690
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: of eleven year olds, he probably wasn't going to win,

691
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: which she was right. But she stopped and she said,

692
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: are you a Democrat or Republican? And I was said, Grandma,

693
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: I'm eleven. I don't even know what they are. And

694
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 2: she said, you're a Democrat. And she explained to me why,

695
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 2: using Humphrey and using standing up for the underdog, fighting

696
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: for people's rights and equality, and at that time it

697
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: was both persuasive. It was almost like a religion in

698
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: my family. And that's why I became a Democrat. And

699
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: then the more I discovered, the more I read about Humphrey,

700
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: the more I learned about the roots, the more that

701
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: I discovered that Hubert Humphrey converted the Democratic Party for

702
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: one that was horrifically racist. When I saw that a

703
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: single man's active courage in his early thirties could literally

704
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: change a party, literally in a ten minute speech, change

705
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party really inspired me, and of course grew

706
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: up celebrating Kennedy and the like, despite coming from a

707
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: business family, one that really recognized that you can be

708
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: pro business and pro labor. They're not mutually exclusive, they're

709
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: mutually mandatory. So that's kind of my I share that

710
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: in the context of that's my upbringing, and I believe

711
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: that both parties, I think it's fair to say, particularly

712
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, has lost its way. I think the

713
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: Democratic Party still embodies many of those values. I don't

714
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: think they're expressed in policies and approaches in the way

715
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: that I think we could and should. I don't think

716
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: we accommodate perspectives and issues and people who have a

717
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 2: lot to share. And I think it's time for both

718
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: parties to assess that. And that's why I do argue

719
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: that competition is good. Competition might be the only thing

720
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: that forced both parties to have a little bit of

721
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: a reckoning. I'm a proud Democrat. I come from a

722
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: state in which we're the only state that has the

723
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: Democratic Farmer Labor Party. Farmers and labors not usually voting

724
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: Democratic anymore, but that it's this nature of still trying

725
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: to look out for people who are struggling, to really

726
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: give them voice, to listen intently, and I still believe

727
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: in that really deeply. I also believe in a lot

728
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: of conservative principles, which is why I think many feel

729
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: homeless right now. You know, you can be socially compassionate

730
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: and fiscally responsible and wonder where's my home? And I'd

731
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: like to inject some of those conservative principles into the

732
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: Democratic Party. When I say conservative principles about our defense,

733
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: our foreign policy, our fiscal responsibility, how we create a budget,

734
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: how we spend, how we hold people accountable, I'd like

735
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 2: to see the Republican Party embrace a little bit more

736
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: of the compassion and the decency that I think is

737
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: necessary for both parties to use as their foundation. So

738
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: I'll close with this. You know, I work on democratic messaging.

739
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: I said that the leader Ship Table on the DPCC,

740
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: the Democratic Policy and Communications Committee are charges to message

741
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 2: and distribute our perspectives, and I'll confess that when people

742
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: ask what is a Republican, it's pretty easy to say,

743
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: you know, small government, low taxes, strong, national defense, states rights.

744
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: Can name a few words for a Democrat if you

745
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: ask them the same question, you know it could be

746
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: paragraphs to describe what it means. And as a branding guy, Steve,

747
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: until a brand is easy to recognize, easy to understand,

748
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: both visually and in articulation, it's hard to build it,

749
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: and it's hard to share it, and it's hard to succeed.

750
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: And that's why I think that's why actually Democrats aren't

751
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: doing better electorally right now than we are even when

752
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: facing somebody like Donald Trump. So that's a long winded

753
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: answer to a really even longer question, but those are

754
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 2: my that's my take.

755
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: I have my final question coming up, but I want

756
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: to share a story with you. I did not know

757
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: that your father was a military officer who had been

758
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: killed in action. Have you been to Vietnam?

759
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: Steve? In fact, I'm glad you asked, because I went

760
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 2: for the first time this year and I got to

761
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: visit the very site in which he took his last breath,

762
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: and sounds kind of strange to say, but I really

763
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: got to take my first breath at this age, and

764
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: it was an extraordinary experience, not just to visit the

765
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 2: place where my dad died, but I have to say,

766
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: to experience the hospitality, the forgiveness, the friendship of the

767
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 2: Vietnamese people, the very people, huh. Extraordinary, extraordinary and something

768
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: that I wish more Americans could experience a culture of

769
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: forgiveness and decency and friendship and hospitality. That changed me,

770
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: changed my perspective on our foreign policy, changed my perspective

771
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: on humanity. Inspired me to ensure that young boys and

772
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: girls who've lost their moms and dads in Iraq, Afghanistan

773
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: someday can also go back to their countries and perhaps

774
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: experience the same feeling that I felt, which is that

775
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: reconciliation is always possible. And frankly, if the Vietnamese can

776
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: forgive us, Democrats and Republicans can also forgive one another

777
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: and move to the future. And I think that that

778
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: had a profound effect on me.

779
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: The story I was going to tell you is this,

780
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: So John McCain not widely known, but John was the

781
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: chaplain for the POWs Wow and the POWs as you know,

782
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: were horrendously tortured, and then two of them, John McCain

783
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: and Pete Peterson, who becomes the ambassador, the first American

784
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: ambassador to Vietnam, along with Senator carry play a leading

785
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: role with Bill Clinton Warriors a president who did not

786
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: earth in leading to a reconciliation between the two countries,

787
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: and so reconciliation at a core level was an important

788
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: theme over and over again in John's John's life, and

789
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: he had a relationship with Mojudall, the famous Democratic presidential candidate,

790
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: multiple times. And as Mojudall of Arizona in his later

791
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: years was laying dying, John McCain of the opposite party

792
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: would go to it was either I think it was

793
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: Walter Reid and would read to him at his at

794
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: his at his bedside. And John loved to tell Mojudall

795
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: stories and one of his favorite was from New Hampshire

796
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: and it was the story of Moudall walking into a

797
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: barbership and Mo Judah walks into this barber shop and

798
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: he says to the barber in the three customers high,

799
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: I'm Mo Ju'dall and I'm running for president. And the

800
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: barber looks at him and says, yeah, because we were

801
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: just laughing about that before he walked in. I think

802
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: if you went to the state of New Hampshire and

803
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: you said, I'm Dean Phillips and I'm running for president.

804
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: I'm seeking to become the Democratic nominee, there would be

805
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people screaming in Washington and a lot

806
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: of people cheering in other parts of the country. Are

807
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: you thinking about it? And if you're not, why not

808
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: given everything that you said today.

809
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am thinking about it. I haven't ruled it out.

810
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: I think it's a steep slope, you know that. I

811
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: think there are people who are more approximate, better prepared

812
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 2: to campaign with national organization, national name recognition, which I

813
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: do not possess. But I do feel strongly and I

814
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: have a conviction that it's important for democracy to have choices,

815
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 2: to have competition, particularly in light of what I'm reading,

816
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: the polling, the data, and what I'm sensing in my

817
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: own intuition. And I'm concerned. I'm concerned that there is

818
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: no alternative. I'm concerned that something could happen between now

819
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: and next November that would make the Democratic Convention in

820
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 2: Chicago an unmitigated disaster, and for a party that is

821
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: acting as the adults in the room, thank goodness. I'm

822
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: concerned that we are not as it relates to our

823
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: electoral strategy, so I'm considering it. I do still think

824
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: there's some time for somebody to enter. I'm still encouraging

825
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: others who I think are better prepared right now to

826
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 2: run a great campaign. But I have thought about it,

827
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: and I recognize there'd be laughter, there'd be taste, there

828
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: would be discussed amongst many. But I also have that

829
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: sense that the country is begging for alternatives. Whether that's me,

830
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: whether it's somebody else, time will tell. But I think

831
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: it's important that somebody recognize that this is the time.

832
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: Don't wait till twenty twenty eight, my goodness, serve your

833
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: country now when we need you. That's my message. And

834
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: I love campaigning, I love people. I love listening. Boy.

835
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: If I became president at some point, Steve, I'd have

836
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,959
Speaker 2: a bipartisan cabinet. I would host dinners at the White

837
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 2: House every month with randomly selected Americans from all around

838
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: the country, of all politics and backgrounds, to just listen

839
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: to them. Not just host state dinners in tuxedos, but

840
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: to host Americans in their White House, to not just

841
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: talk bipartisanship, but to engage in a bipartisan basis. There

842
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: are so many ways to ensure that everybody's invited, to

843
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 2: ensure that representation began with listening, and to steer this

844
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,280
Speaker 2: country in a much different path. Now, whether that message

845
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: would resonate with Democrats is another question. I surely believe

846
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 2: would resonate with just about every American outside of the

847
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: hardcore Dems and Republicans. But these are things on my mind,

848
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, I have to

849
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 2: say this. You know, Joe Biden always says, don't compare

850
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: me to the almighty, compared me to the alternative. You know,

851
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: if it is Joe Biden against Donald Trump, my goodness,

852
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: and it's a no brainer. I'll do everything. I'll do

853
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: everything I can, everything I can to ensure that he

854
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: stands the best chance to be reelected. There is no

855
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 2: question the alternative is horrifying. But that's also why in

856
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: I head to head matchup, Nicki Haley outperforms Biden beyond

857
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: the margin of error, because it demonstrates that most of

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00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 2: the country is also tired of Donald Trump. By the way,

859
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: they're only three or four years apart in age. Trump

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00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: is dangerous to the country. The thing that Biden is

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00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: suffering from, unfortunately right now, is something he can't change.

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00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 2: And there's some wisdom in him that is quite remarkable

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00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 2: and that I honor. But I also know what the

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00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 2: country is asking for. And how can you ignore the

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00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 2: numbers you see in a country that prides itself on

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00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: representational democracy. That's how I see it. So we'll see.

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00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 2: I think it's unlikely, but not impossible.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Dean Phillips, the gentleman from the third District of Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time.

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00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, keep the faith.

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00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,640
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