1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Oh, tonight's classic episode bit Esoteric. We've talked about Solomon 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: in the past, right, the commander of jen and Spirits, 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: a guy known to practitioners of magic throughout the world. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: But what is the key of Solomon? 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: This one? 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 3: Isn't it about the rings? There's some real D and 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 3: D stuff going on in this story where you can 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: you can get an accessory that's probably a random drop 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: on like a level forty I don't know, creature, and 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 3: then you can command demons. 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's nuts because Solomon is such a tremendous 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: historical and religious figure, and you know, out of this 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: panoply of characters in religions from this part of the world, 14 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: he stands apart as sort of a prospero, a high magician. 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: And I don't know. I gotta be honest with you, guys, 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: I still don't fully understand the key of Solomon. 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 4: Wow, why don't we make an episode about it? 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 2: And then in the past. 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 4: That's some witchy stuff right there. 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: Let's jump into the groom WAW. 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 24 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 4: Welcome back to the show. My name is Noel as 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 4: a spirit conduit for Matt, who usually starts the show 26 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: but is away on adventures. 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: And will return shortly. They call me Ben. We are 28 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: joined with our super producer, Paul the Necroman decond Most importantly, 29 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: you are here, You are you, and that makes this 30 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. 31 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 4: You know, Ben, I thought the necronomicon was real until 32 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: you told me otherwise last time we had that conversation. 33 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: Right, this is going to be an episode that those 34 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: of you who enjoyed our grimwa episode will find particularly fascinating. 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned the Necronomicon at the top 36 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: of the show, Nol, because for everyone listening, if you're 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: a fan of horror movies, you're intimately familiar with that 38 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: old trope of the Cursed Book and Lovecraft's Necronomicon. Howard, 39 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: Philip Lovecraft, he made this book. It's a perfect example 40 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: of what we're talking about, because for years and years 41 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: and years after he admittedly wrote it in a work 42 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: of fiction, as a work of fiction mentioned in other 43 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: fictional stories, people liked it enough that they just started 44 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: saying let's all agree that it's real. 45 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think my thing is it just 46 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 4: as becomes such a stand in for like cursed books. 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 4: Like you said, I almost thought it was more of 48 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 4: a word than a specific volume, like calling something a 49 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 4: necronomicon or a grimoire, you know, right, that was what 50 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 4: my brand did. 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: Like how nowadays instead of saying search the Internet, we 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: just say Google, regardless of which search, or xerox for copy. 53 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: That's an interesting comparison not. The Necronomicon may be the 54 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: most widely known fictional book of magic in the Western world, 55 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: but there are other ones too, you know. On a 56 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: lighter note, there's the spell Book in Disney's hocus Pocus, 57 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: which I recently rewatched and stand by it is an 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: enjoyable movie, if not a film. Today, these books are 59 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: almost universally thought of as little more than clever bits 60 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: of fiction, maybe an extra detail added to flesh out 61 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: a fictional world. But as we explored in the previous 62 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: video and audio episodes on Grimwaws, these books were real things. 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: They were physical, tangible books in the real world. They 64 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: were often mistakenly or purposefully misattributed to other authors. There 65 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: are multiple counterfeit versions, and numerous books took the same 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: name or something very much like it to increase their 67 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: occult street cred. But the books themselves were real, and 68 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: in many many cases, various people throughout the centuries would 69 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: read these books and attempt the experiments or rituals outlined 70 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: in those tones. Today's episode is about one of the 71 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: most famous grimoiws in existence, the book or slash books 72 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: known as the Key of Solomon. We're going to delve 73 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: into the fact and fiction surrounding this book with one 74 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: other huge question that we'll get to near the end. 75 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: What is this supposed to do and does it actually work? 76 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: So here are the facts. 77 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 4: The Key of Solomon is kind of is this sort 78 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 4: of an umbrella term that is assigned to several different books. 79 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 4: And there's a legend that says the book was originally 80 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 4: created by the biblical King Solomon of mining mining fame. 81 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 4: He had a mine, King Solomon's mind. 82 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: Right, he had a seal, he made a temple. Yeah, 83 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: according to you'll hear it being phrased as something mentioned 84 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: in just Judeo Christian beliefs, but mentioned of King Solomon 85 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: also occurs in Holy Books of the Bahai and also 86 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: in the Qur'an. According to these legends, these stories, the 87 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: man known as King Solomon was the son of the 88 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: famous Goliath slaying David, who went on Solomon did went 89 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: on to become the ruler of israel An approximately nine 90 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: sixty seven BCE, and he was ruling this enormous kingdom 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: that extended from the Euphrates in the north to Egypt 92 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: in the south. And in the religious text he is 93 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: presented as one of the wisest men in the history 94 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of civilization. He's kind of and this is not a 95 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: one to one comparison religious scholars in the audience, he's 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: kind of a Tony Stark. He's a genius inventor. He's 97 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: a ladies man. 98 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 4: He's super rich. 99 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: He's super rich exactly. 100 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 4: And potentially practices the dark arts. 101 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: And God appeared to him in a dream during the 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: early days of his reign, and he said, Solomon, you 103 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: can have whatever you desire because you act, you know 104 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: how to worship me, and you're honoring me in the 105 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: ways and the methods that your father David instructed you to. 106 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: And when we say this guy's clever, we're drawing on 107 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: numerous anecdotes, and the most famous one which I think 108 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: everybody has heard, whether or not you are religious, and 109 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: whether or not you're that familiar with Western religion, you've 110 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: probably heard the story of the baby right where he 111 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: is a judge and these two women come to his 112 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: court and they have a baby, and both both of 113 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: these people say that is my child. 114 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 4: I misspoke as well. Solomon is not known for practicing 115 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 4: any dark arts, but there are things that he codified 116 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: and committed to text that were used as sort of 117 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 4: a lexicon by others that practiced said dark arts. Is 118 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 4: that accurate, you know? 119 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: And I think the term dark art too, is something 120 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: that undergoes an evolution. That's a very good point, because 121 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: according to a legend, he was practicing some stuff, but 122 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: later it would be called dark arts right by church authorities. 123 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 4: Okay, then all right, so I was too too far 124 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 4: spot on. 125 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: But back to these back to these women. These are 126 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: the days before DNA testing, obviously, so they say this 127 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: is my kid. This lady's Lyne, and the other lady 128 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: says no, this person's line, this is truly my child. 129 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: And Solomon's solution was to really double down on this. 130 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: He said, Okay, you've both convinced me in your own way, 131 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: tell you what, Just cut the baby in half, be 132 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: done with it. And then one woman was prepared to 133 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: accept the decision, but the other one begged King Solomon, please, 134 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: it is my child, but give it to this other woman. 135 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't want the baby to die. 136 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: Classic trope and sci Fi. When you have clones, you know, 137 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 4: and to see which one, or like the evil double 138 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: or whatever, to see which one's the real one, sort of, 139 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 4: I don't know. 140 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: Was sci Fi draws a lot from religion, that's true, 141 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: earlier religion, so of course we know how. We know 142 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: how Solomon acted next once he saw one lady giving 143 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: up the baby to spare its life. 144 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess what I'm getting at with like that. 145 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: If there's an evil twin, you can usually tell in 146 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 4: sci Fi who's the real one, because the real one 147 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 4: will take a bullet for his lady love or something, 148 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 4: while the evil one will, you know, behave more less 149 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: chivalrously right. 150 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: Right, And in the case of Solomon, he says, okay, well, 151 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: you have proven to me that you are the true mothers, 152 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: so that's obviously your child. Again. According to legend, people 153 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,239 Speaker 1: from surrounding nations came to hear Solomon's wisdom. He composed 154 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: three thousand proverbs, one thousand and five songs. He wrote 155 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: the Song of Songs, the Book of Proverbs, and other 156 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: religious works. In the Jewish tradition, he is thought to 157 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: be the builder of the First Temple in Jerusalem and 158 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: the last ruler of the Kingdom of Israel before it 159 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: was divided into the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom 160 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: of Judah. And in the tradition concerning the Key of Solomon, 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: or also in the Lesser Key of Solomon, which well, 162 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: we'll have to mention because it's fascinating, the king used 163 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: his powers, including a special seal and his magic ring, 164 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: to summon and bind spirits, and it was these spirits 165 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: that were his workforce for the First Temple. So going 166 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: back to dark arts, you know, centuries later, summoning spirits 167 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: and spirits of the dead to. 168 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: Literally do your dirty work, right, or at least, you know, 169 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 4: the work that you don't feel like doing because masonry breaking. Yeah. 170 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: So this these are the claims about this individual, and 171 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: we can get into those a little bit later. We 172 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: want to set that up and bracket it. But now 173 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: we've got to talk about what's actually in this book, 174 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: because the key of Solomon is, as you said, nol 175 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: an umbrella term for multiple different translations for multiple I 176 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know, differing interpretations of the text. The book itself 177 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: is composed of an introduction and then like two smaller books, 178 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: and the introduction is a story about how the book 179 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: allegedly came to be. 180 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 4: So in the introduction to the book, readers get a 181 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 4: story about the creation of said text. Solomon writes the 182 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: book for his son Rio Boham and tells his son 183 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 4: to hide the book in a sepulchrp upon Solomon's dead. 184 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 4: What's a sepulcher man? That's like a kind of like 185 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 4: a It's like a mausoleum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 186 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: It's like a too small room usually built a stone 187 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: or cut into rock, where you put a dead. 188 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 4: Body, okay, or a book, or a dead body with 189 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 4: a book. It's about us. It could be clutching it. 190 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: So what happens next? 191 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 4: Well next, and by next I mean years and years later. 192 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 4: Babylonian philosophers find the text while they're repairing Solomon's tomb. 193 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 4: Solomon himself his tomb. No One can understand the text, 194 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 4: so they pray to God for understanding, and so lo 195 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 4: and behold, an angel appears and grants one of the 196 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 4: philosophers the ability to read the text, after he swears 197 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 4: that he will keep it safe and hidden from the 198 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 4: unworthy and the wicked. This is obviously, of course, this 199 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 4: is legend, has it? 200 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: Yes, legend has it? As this story goes, yeah, this 201 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: legend says that the philosopher accepts the bargain and learns 202 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: these ancient secrets, and then to keep his word to 203 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: these divine forces, this philosopher places a spell on the book, 204 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: or what they call conjuration, making it so that even 205 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: if you manage to read it, if you are unworthy, unpious, 206 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: you're unwise, you don't obey God, or you don't fear God, 207 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: you can do every single ritual in here to the 208 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: letter and it just won't work, which is very clever. 209 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 4: Isn't interesting too? How the term philosopher used to mean 210 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 4: much more of a almost wizardly type, like I think 211 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 4: even one of the Harry Potter books. In the British 212 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 4: printing it's called the Philosopher's Stone, and then the US 213 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 4: it's called the sorcerer's stone, so they're kind of like 214 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 4: a one to one. 215 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: Thing and the philosopher's stone being alchemical exactly. 216 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, but now we think of philosophers, we just think 217 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 4: of high minded academics that you know. 218 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, and either way could be either way could apply 219 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: because it just means lover of wisdom, that's true. But 220 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. A lot of times people who were 221 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: practicing what we would think of as very esoteric rituals 222 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: and belief systems were considered philosophers, right, So this is 223 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: the intro And one thing that's incredibly clever about this 224 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: introduction is that it already bakes in a defense mechanism 225 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: for people who say the book is fake or it 226 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: doesn't work. It puts the blame for a lack of 227 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: success in these rituals, not on the book itself, not 228 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: on the nature of magic, but on the audience, the reader, 229 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: the practitioner. If you didn't make to turn invisible, then 230 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: it's not because that's impossible. It's because you were unworthy, 231 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: or you're unwise, or you didn't fear God, which will 232 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: come into play later. But let's get into the actual 233 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: substance of the book. The text itself the Key of Solomon. 234 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 4: Should we take a little quickie break first. 235 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: Though, fantastic idea, let's do it. We have returned. As 236 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: we said earlier, the book is divided into two sections. 237 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: In book one, you'll learn an astonishing amount of conjurations, curses, 238 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: invocations meant to summon and bind spirits. Now we mentioned 239 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: spirits before, let's outline let's clarify this a little bit. 240 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: Spirits in this sense could be the ghost of dead 241 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: human beings or other worldly creatures like angels or demons. 242 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: And in many cases a lot of anthropologists will tell 243 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: you these and they're correct. Many of these things presented 244 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: as demons are built off of earlier what we would 245 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: call pagan myths or pagan gods, like the god of 246 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: lightning Baal who became Bael. And this is very apparent 247 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: in some books that which we'll get to in a moment, 248 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: and some books that came after the Key of Solomon 249 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: that actually named these demons. The first book, in addition 250 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: to these descriptions, contained spells which are called operations or experiments. 251 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 4: Very mathematical sounding and they kill right right. 252 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: So the idea is one series of operations or experiments 253 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: can turn the practitioner invisible their spells to make people 254 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: like you or fall in love with you, to help 255 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: you find stolen or lost items. So there's some practical 256 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: stuff in there, and that's just the first book. 257 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 4: In book two he gets into detailing a lot of 258 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 4: purification rituals that a practitioner of philosophy must undertake, things 259 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 4: like the kinds of clothing they're supposed to wear. The 260 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 4: spell caster or operator, you know, that was the earliest 261 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 4: version of that job, an operator, and it was also 262 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 4: called an exorcist in different translations. So, like you say, Ben, 263 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 4: the translation can make a lot of difference in the 264 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 4: way we look at that particular activity or you know, role, 265 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 4: and it's different. You know, how they should go about 266 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 4: constructing the various tools that they need to do the rituals, 267 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 4: and what kinds of animals should be sacrificed, along with 268 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 4: exactly how to go about sacrificing them. 269 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: With one example here from chapter fourteen of that book. 270 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: It's on the chapter fourteen is of the pen ink 271 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: and Colors. Just to show you how weird this gets, 272 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: or how it's may seem weird to us now, how 273 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: specific it gets all things employed for writing, et cetera 274 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: in this art should be prepared in the following manner. 275 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to do a voice. Thou shalt take a 276 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: male ghostlin from which thou shalt pluck the third feather 277 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: of the right twing, and didn't pluck it it. Thou 278 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: shalt say abermei habli lai sami ta athabasiever I don't 279 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: I banish from this pen all deceit and arraw, so 280 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: that it may be a virtue and efficacy to write 281 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: all that tide desaye a been I. 282 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 4: Deny is Hebrew? How deny is like a prayer? Believe? 283 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, these are names in vacations. 284 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 4: I just remember it from choir from when I was 285 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 4: a kid. It's a very beautiful. Yes, I'm sorry. It's 286 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 4: the Hebrew name for God's That's what that is. But ben, 287 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 4: I'm sorry. The third feather on the right wing? How 288 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 4: do off one determine the third feather? There are a 289 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 4: lot of feathers on a wing. 290 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, right? Do you count from the outside in or 291 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: the inside out. 292 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 4: It's sort of like your grandma's recipes. You know, it's 293 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 4: like a pinch or it doesn't even give you, like 294 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 4: actual measurements. It's a basic ratio, you know, so maybe 295 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 4: the third it doesn't matter, just so if you count, 296 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 4: you know, you use the honor system for plucking feathers. 297 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: So the important part here too, And it has further 298 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: instructions for what to do after plucking that quill, and 299 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: how to make it into a pen, what to do 300 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: with the ink. And one thing that's incredibly important about 301 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: this is that each of these physical acts are accompanied 302 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: by this incantation that one must recity. To simply pluck 303 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: a feather from anywhere on the gosling is going to 304 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: completely sink the entire experiment. So everything you do has 305 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: to be attached to these pronunciations. 306 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 4: I cannot get over the idea of these as experiments. 307 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 4: It totally goes hand in hand with the kind of 308 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 4: scientific nature of like alchemy and all of that, and 309 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 4: how it all is just kind of like trial and 310 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 4: error type stuff. I really like that. 311 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: And there's and just like modern day experiments, there's intense ritualization. 312 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: There's an effort to account for all the variables and 313 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: reduce possible intervening variables, right, which is strange because you know, 314 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: now safe to say most modern day scientists would not 315 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: take kindly to being compared to sorcerers or wizards. 316 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 4: Now I think that Saki and the in the mouth, it's. 317 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: Science, sock you. Yeah, yeah, But there's there's an interesting 318 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: parallel here. And while this is all fascinating, it's safe 319 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: to say that almost anyone could sit down and make 320 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: something like this up from whole cloth. We could. We 321 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: could say, okay, if you want to if you want 322 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: to summon rainfall, then here's what you do. And if 323 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: we're making it up, it doesn't matter really to us. 324 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: If it works. We say, you find a you find 325 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: a stray cat, you make it wear this special headdress 326 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: that you made out of grass while you're saying these words, 327 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: and then. 328 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 4: Boom, you're making this up. 329 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: Yeah right, And the question is this any different or 330 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: is this just an older example? How real quote unquote 331 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: real is the actual key of Solomon. Here's where it 332 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: gets crazy, and this is strange. There are actually several 333 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy moments. 334 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 4: Here you're going to say it all every time. No, 335 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: I think just once, wonder cup. I'm sort of an umbrella. 336 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy. 337 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: True, it's like a key of Solomon. Kind of thing. 338 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: So first, in virtually every translation, this book appears to 339 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: be what we call pseudo epigrapha, so meaning falsely attributed 340 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: to a legendary author. 341 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: Oh a book like that? Wait what so okay? Go on. 342 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: So, for instance, this happened a lot in early Western 343 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: religious developments. Three hundred, four hundred, seven hundred years after 344 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: something occurred, or after someone was alive, an enterprising scholar 345 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: would write a book and say, you know, this is 346 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: the book that this guy wrote. I know you've seen 347 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: a lot of imitations, but except no imitations, this is 348 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: the real book of you know, this disciple or this person, 349 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: right from the Torah or something. And experts estimate that 350 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: the earliest versions of something like the Key of Solomon 351 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: weren't actually written until somewhere between the fourteenth or fifteenth century. 352 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: We have a quote from a researcher named Arthur Edward 353 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: Waite that says essentially that there's no ground for attributing 354 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: the Key of Solomon in its present form a higher 355 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: antiquity than the fourteenth or fifteenth century. A lot of 356 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: people latch onto that present form thing and say, well, 357 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: maybe this version we understand isn't true, but maybe those 358 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: Babylonian philosophers really did find some tattered scrolls by a skeleton, 359 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: and those scrolls just decayed over time, and people just 360 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: kept recopying the. 361 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 4: Story you're talking about, like in the clutches of Solomon's 362 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 4: Dead Hands. 363 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: Right, they're saying in the separate supulch. 364 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 4: Sorry, man, I'm having a I'm having a bit of 365 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 4: a day, Ben. Yeah. Yeah, I can't pronounce words. 366 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: I can't pronounce words. You know, I'll never forget one 367 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: time in elementary school, I gotta I gotta b because 368 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: I did a report on Carl Jung swinging a miss. 369 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,959 Speaker 1: I just didn't have many people to speak with. 370 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 4: You know what's been in our business, And by that 371 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 4: I mean the business that is pod. 372 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: Uh. 373 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 4: You're gonna, you're gonna You're gonna have a few pronunciation 374 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 4: misses every now and then. It's just gonna happen. 375 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you have to wonder what would happen if 376 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: we were practitioners of magic? 377 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 4: Oh what if mispronouncing a word totally yielded a an 378 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 4: undesirable or cataclysmic results? 379 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: And furthermore, just while we're on this subject, the act 380 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: of making a podcast is in many ways similar there's 381 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: a ritual, right that we undergo as individuals, that we 382 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: undergo as a group when we're recording that you undergo 383 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: as you listen, right, And there's something that we're all 384 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: doing together in a way. We're making this strange working together. 385 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 4: It is strange. And also the ritualism of it all 386 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 4: is why I get so thrown every time Matt's not here. 387 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 4: We both get so thrown and we look at each 388 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 4: other because we don't know how to start. 389 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. And when we say it's true, 390 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: we mean it is not just true for us right now, 391 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: but it is true for all time. You can go 392 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: back to the very beginning of our show and you 393 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: can hear those moments that we have just described. Those 394 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: moments have something called historocity. Historocity is something that comes 395 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: up in the Search for or the Key of Solomon 396 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: as well. Historosity is just the fun to say word 397 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: that describes the historical authenticity of a given person, place, event, 398 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: or thing. 399 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 4: I love this word. 400 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a great one because when okay, so, 401 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,959 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen those specials on the History Channel 402 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: or National Geographic or something wherein they have a documentarian saying, 403 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: all right, now we're journeying to this mountain in Turkey 404 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: to search for the real Noah's arc. Of course, their 405 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: questing for historosity. They want to prove the legends. One 406 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: example of this that we return to time and time 407 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: again would be the search for the ancient city of Troy, 408 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: which was for a long time after was lost, it 409 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: was believed to be a myth until someone found it. 410 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks like we were talking about finding Genghis 411 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 4: Khans burials, side anything, Thelocity of Atlanta's whatever, and it's 412 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 4: all kind of myth and hubbub until you actually do 413 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 4: discover something like that. Is that historoicity there? 414 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, So multiple scholars even today as we 415 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: record this, they've examined the works describing King Solomon, and 416 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: they've attempted to square these texts with existing physical evidence 417 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: or secular contemporary writing, so non religious community based, and 418 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: the debate over this stuff continues today. There are some 419 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: scholars like this professor Israel Finkelstein, who argue that the 420 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: story surrounding the rule of King Solomon are not factually accurate, 421 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: and he and people who agree with him, do not 422 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: believe the Biblical descriptions of anything should be taken literally. 423 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 4: Wait, so like you they're saying, like Solomon was like 424 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 4: a character, kind of like a made up cartoon. 425 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: They're not quite going that far. Often they're saying that 426 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff attributed to him doesn't count 427 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: because there are people who believe they've found the tomb 428 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: of the king of Israel. Right, And you're absolutely correct 429 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: though in that there are other scholars who totally say 430 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: there's a guy named Philip Davis who says Solomon himself 431 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: is totally invented, just made up character, maybe a literary 432 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: device to explain the story of Israel at the time, 433 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: or various other political circumstances. And then there are still 434 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: other scholars who are completely on the other side, like 435 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: William Deaver who believed that the biblical stories of Solomon 436 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: and his kingdom are more or less trustworthy. So even 437 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: now in twenty eighteen, we have three camps of people. 438 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: We have a group of people saying yes, totally absolutely, 439 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: mostly true, for a group of people saying, well, something 440 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: was true but it got exaggerated. And then we have 441 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: a group of people who are saying bunk, flim flam, malarkey, 442 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: and Hui, all of them, all of them. Yeah, So 443 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: the search for physical evidence that would be the real 444 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: smoking gun, right. The search for physical evidence continues, and 445 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: in the Middle East today, various people argue that they 446 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 1: have found physical evidence of things described in religious works. 447 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: And then there's another camp of people who argue that 448 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: these ruins are being purposely conflated with other ancient stories 449 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: for one reason or another. And one of the big 450 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: accusations is that these reasons are politically motivated to give 451 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: one group or another in the modern day a more 452 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: quote unquote legitimate claim to land. I see, there's another 453 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: piece of physical evidence, several pieces that we haven't really 454 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: talked about, but we should at least mention. Let's get 455 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: to them. After a word from our sponsor, we're back. 456 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: The thing about this physical evidence is that we are 457 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: still producing new physical evidence, new cultural iterations ultimately derived 458 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: from the Key of Solomon in the modern day. You know, 459 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: we mentioned there are other books that came later, like 460 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: the Testament of Solomon or the Lesser Key of Solomon. 461 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,239 Speaker 1: That's the one with the seventy two demons and their 462 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: properties named. You know, that's where we can see the 463 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: trace of these pagan gods. Those works are still inspiring 464 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: works in the modern day. 465 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, like I think we've talked about maybe we have 466 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 4: it on this show. But the movie Hereditary, which I 467 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 4: think you and I'm both enjoyed, enjoy is maybe a 468 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 4: weird way of putting it. It's a quite unpleasant film. 469 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. 470 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, well those are your people, man, all right, No, no, no, 471 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 4: but yes, it's a very expertly done kind of psychological 472 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 4: horror show with family drama kind of at its heart. 473 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 4: But this is slight spoilers, slight. 474 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: Spoilers, barely abandoned all hope of not being spoiled. Ye 475 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: who listen here? 476 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 4: Yes, but we're not going to do major as well. 477 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 4: It was just the inclusion which if you had your 478 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 4: p's and q's of demonology down, you would have noticed 479 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 4: very early on in the movie that there's a certain 480 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 4: symbol that shows up that is the symbol of one 481 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 4: of the gods or not demons. Rather in this this 482 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 4: lesser key of Solomon called Peymon, and Peymon was one 483 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 4: of the kind of dukes of Hell I believe, or 484 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 4: like one of Satan's you know, what, a prince of Hell. 485 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 4: How would you call him. 486 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a often described as a great king, but 487 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: he's obedient to Lucifer, so he's not in charge charge, 488 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: but he commands many other, many other. 489 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 4: Spirits, that's right. And he's depicted as having sort of 490 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 4: effeminine features, writing upon a camel, and he commands the 491 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 4: ability to control people and summon other demons, and also 492 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 4: is a big fan of the arts. 493 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: As it turns out, and you'll see folks like the 494 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: occultist Carol Poke Runyan, who will come up later, Carol 495 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: Poke Runyan who suggests that this name ultimately derives from 496 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: a pre existing pagan god. And he says this because 497 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: some of those manuscripts depict Payment as a woman writing 498 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: a camel. And this goes back to the overall claim 499 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: that the Lesser Key of Solomon and the Key of 500 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: Solomon themselves are actually rooted in pre existing Mesopotamian mythology. 501 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: So again we see the cultural evolution here and it 502 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: continues today. That's the thing. History is not so distant 503 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: as people would have you believe. The story Hereditary again, 504 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: we'll end the spoilers after this. The story of Hereditary 505 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: does some excellent research into the foundations of what is 506 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: perceived as a demon today and once was not necessarily 507 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: associated with anything inherently bad, you know, and it's it's fester. 508 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: We have to wonder where the evolution is going to go. 509 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: But we said, there's another thing we've run into. What 510 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: the Key of Solomon? One of the big questions we're 511 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: talking about in this episode. Does it actually work? Meaning 512 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: is there some sort of operation or experiment that you, 513 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: fellow listeners, Paul and Nola and I could do that 514 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: would create a reproducible, predictable outcome. Multiple people maintain that 515 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: this is the case that experiments or operations outlined in 516 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: the book actually do work, just perhaps not the way 517 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: you might assume if you're thinking about magic as the 518 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: sort of thing we see in horror movies. According to 519 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: this guy we mentioned earlier, pok Runyan, who's an author, 520 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: a cultural anthropologist, and we have to say, to be fair, 521 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: a complete magic practitioner himself, he is actually doing this stuff. 522 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: According to him, the Key of Solomon is more an 523 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: example of Western shamanism, and these operations, experiments, and rituals 524 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: explained in the text are actually early forms of psychological 525 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: psychological experiments, therapy, even. 526 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 4: Really, Yeah, that would never have occurred to me. So 527 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 4: it's almost more along the lines of kind of like 528 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 4: the mystics we talked about on our other show, Ridiculous History, 529 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 4: and the hermits of the Ridge of the Cave of Kelpius, 530 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 4: or the cults. It's like a doomsday cult that was 531 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 4: headed by a philosopher slash astronomer who practice some of 532 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 4: these kind of end times philosophies, but did seem to 533 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 4: be kind of rallying around ritual and this idea of 534 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 4: these sort of mystic arts. 535 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's an excellent point because in that episode 536 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: we mentioned that in the modern age, or what appears 537 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: to be modern for us, we often have this harsh 538 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: and bright divide between what we see as the realm 539 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: of the esoteric and the mystic, and the realm of 540 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: the ration and the scientific. But the truth of the 541 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: matter is, for most of human civilization, those two things 542 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: were not considered mutually exclusive. I believe we use the 543 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: example of Isaac Newton, who did some profoundly groundbreaking scientific 544 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: work but also believed in alchemy, you know. And this 545 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: the presence of mysticism in early philosophy, or the presence 546 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: of these ritualistic beliefs does not mean that everything was 547 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: automatically wrong. And if we look at it from an 548 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: anthropological perspective, maybe they were making some psychological breakthrough similar 549 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: to that episode we had about the inherent mysticism in 550 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: the bicameral mind theory. Right, you're hearing a voice. 551 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 4: That's right, yeah, and that voice is driving your human train. 552 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 1: And the voice is you the voices Surprise, surprise, that's 553 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: going to be such a shyamal on twist. You know, 554 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: I almost wish. 555 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 4: But Ben, who are you? 556 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 5: Right? 557 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 4: Who are we? What are we? That's what we're here 558 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 4: to discuss. 559 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: That's that's what we're getting towards. 560 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 561 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: So from an anthropological perspective, then does this sort of 562 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: thing work or do operations in here work? According to Runyon, 563 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: it's a exploration of the underlying cognitive structure of the 564 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: human mind, which sort of functions in terms of symbol 565 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: before it functions in terms of language. I think we 566 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: may have mentioned on an earlier episode, but the Kekule 567 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: problem with Cormack McCarthy who wrote he wrote this article 568 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: Nautilus about the relationship between language and the original function 569 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: of the human mind and the inspiration. 570 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 4: For this is. 571 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: The common or not infrequent occurrence where some scientists or 572 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: some great thinker is attempting to figure out a problem 573 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: and they rack their brains and they picture a gigantic 574 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: chalkboard and they just go crazy and throw everything everywhere, 575 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: and then they fall asleep and they get the answer 576 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: in a dream. But it's never in words, it's in 577 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: a symbol. 578 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 4: Interesting. 579 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: So the reason this is important is because with that 580 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: emphasis on symbols, with that emphasis on these visual aspects, 581 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: these emotional states, over what we call language, Runyan traces 582 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: a narrative starting from ancient mystery religions all the way 583 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: to more modern theorists like Carl Jung who believed in 584 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: the concept of the great unconsciousness and archetypes. And this 585 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: means to run you in that the magic is working 586 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: because there's the inducement of trances and the use of 587 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: ritual that takes the mind to strange and new or 588 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: perhaps old and strange places. So several of the acts described, 589 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: or the operations rather are in his mind actually means 590 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: of self discovery and self hypnosis. But these symbols are important, 591 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 1: and that's before we I think we may be doing 592 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: a disservice if we don't talk a little more about 593 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: those symbols, because no, you pointed out in early on 594 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: in Hereditary demonologist in the crowd notice that symbol, right. 595 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, a friend of ours actually who is 596 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 4: a local practitioner of witchcraft or Weakanism. And also, I believe, 597 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 4: as in the Atlanta chapter of the Church of Satan, 598 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 4: Hale recognize it right off the bat and knew exactly 599 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 4: where the movie was going. So good on him. But Ben, 600 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 4: I maybe being a dummy, but I would like a 601 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 4: little more clarification as to what separates the lesser key 602 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,399 Speaker 4: from the you know, just the regular key, and why 603 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 4: is it lesser? 604 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:10,760 Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, So part of it comes from the textual history. 605 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: We mentioned that there were many, many different books that 606 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: were either translations of something pre existing, or they were 607 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: snatched from other grimwaws, or they were just slapped with 608 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: the title of something that would be familiar to the audience, 609 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: to the crowd. So the Lesser Key of Solomon Is 610 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: is based on another book, or a couple of different books, 611 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: one by a guy named Johann Weier Johann Wire called 612 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: De Prestigious Damonim and it seems like the Lesser Key 613 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: of Solomon was pulled from this other book, not so 614 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: much from the Key of Solomon itself. So the big 615 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: question is, and it does have a lot of the 616 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: same ideas, the big question is if it just got 617 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: that title because somebody decided to name it that it's 618 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: there's no known author for the book, and it appears 619 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: like it was pulled from several different sources, including Buyer. 620 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: It was compiled in the mid seventeenth century, mostly from 621 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: things that were a couple of centuries older, so it 622 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: kind of came after it, which is probably why it 623 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: was called the Lesser Key. I see, not inferior quality, 624 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: just Rea. 625 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 4: So and again, like from from the top of the show, 626 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 4: we said this idea of the Key of Solomon was 627 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 4: an umbrella term for several different translations, And yeah, I 628 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 4: can see that that makes sense. 629 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: So we're encountering we're encountering a couple of things that 630 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: we're encountering possibilities of literary hoaxes, which I don't know 631 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: if we should be too comfortable with, because the idea 632 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: that it would be a literary hoax implies that the 633 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: authors may have been cynical and may not have believed 634 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: what they were writing, and I don't think that was 635 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: always the case at all. We're also encountering the possibility 636 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: of deep psychological experimentation in ancient days. 637 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, now that's fascinating to me, the idea that 638 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 4: some of this sort of ritualism and mysticism was kind 639 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 4: of early forms of psychological healing or control or I'm 640 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 4: not like almost like you'd see at a revival of 641 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 4: some kind, you know. 642 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, yes, and a good point, because what we 643 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: do know is that whether or not this text was 644 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: based on some earlier texts before the fourteenth or fifteenth centuries, 645 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: or whether it was just made up in the fourteenth 646 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: or fifteenth centuries based on non written or orally transmitted traditions, 647 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that people who practice 648 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: this stuff now may feel like they are practicing something 649 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: that is psychologically impactful to them. Right, So is magic 650 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: like beauty something in the eye and mind of the ballholder? 651 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: We're of course not saying. I mean, I don't know 652 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: about you know, I've never done some ritual to try 653 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: to appear invisible and. 654 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 4: Never even warn Camo or anything. No, no, even Scott never, never. 655 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: The best way to be visible in a place is 656 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: not to go there. 657 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 4: That's also true. You've definitely done that before. 658 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: I have done that. I'm notorious at the office for that. 659 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: But we're not knocking this at all because at heart, 660 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 1: whether you feel this is fascinating folklore, whether you feel 661 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: this is a belief system that calls to you, or 662 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: whether you feel this is just something fascinating to learn about, 663 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: the truth is there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing 664 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,720 Speaker 1: wrong with practicing a belief system of your own choice, 665 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: so long as and this is the most important part, 666 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: so long as you are not hurting anyone. And back 667 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: in the day, we had received a number of letters 668 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: and notes from your fellow listeners who had said that 669 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: they had had strange, inexplicable experiences with everything from Ouija 670 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: board to incantations or something that they had found online 671 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: or in a library, or even just staring into a mirror, 672 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: which is an intensely meditative act. And by the way, 673 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,800 Speaker 1: it's one of the acts that or it's one of 674 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: the rituals that Poke Runyan himself practices. You can find 675 00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: him online. He's got a very particular way of speaking. 676 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: I think we've played some a little bit off air. 677 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think so. 678 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: It's very much a storyteller. But if you have had 679 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: those sorts of inexplicable experiences, or if you have attempted 680 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: to operate one of the experiments mentioned in the Key 681 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,439 Speaker 1: of Solomon or its many translations, please do right to us. 682 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,400 Speaker 1: We would like to hear your story. We would like 683 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: And that's whether or not you think something strange happened, 684 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: or whether you thought it was all a waste of time. 685 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: We don't, by the way, we don't think that automatically 686 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: means you are unworthy, unbiased. 687 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 4: Or don't fear God, unpious, unpious. I first, I think 688 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 4: you said unbiased, unbiased. That's different. 689 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: That is different. That's a great point either way. You 690 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,359 Speaker 1: can you can find us on Instagram, you can find 691 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,800 Speaker 1: us on Twitter. You can find us on Facebook, especially 692 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: our community page. Here's where it gets crazy. Where you 693 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: can you can see Nol and Matten myself popping up 694 00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: in digital person. 695 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 4: You can invoke us. Yeah, we even have little avatars 696 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 4: that we use. That's not true, but we can get them. 697 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: We can get them, we can make them. We have 698 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: the rituals and we have the ability to successfully enact. 699 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 4: Those operations mainly you mean admin privileges. 700 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, mainly, that's what they call them now exactly. 701 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 4: So the times have changed. 702 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: The times have changed, but wizardry in some form or 703 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: another continues. We would like to hear your experiences with 704 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: it as always. Thank you so much for checking out 705 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: the episode, and thank you to Paul who we did 706 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: not run that nickname past no so we might get 707 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: it at the end of this. But Noel, what do 708 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: people do if if they don't want to find us 709 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter, If you don't want to find us on Instagram, 710 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: if you say I would, I know? You have a 711 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: phone number one A three three std wytk. That's usually 712 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: Matt's part two. 713 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 4: I see what you're doing here. You're trying to invoke 714 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 4: a bit of ritual. 715 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: You're spot on, Noel. 716 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 2: Yes, and that's the end of this classic episode. If 717 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 2: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you 718 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 2: can get into contact with us in a number of 719 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 2: different ways. One of the best is to give us 720 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three stdwytk. 721 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, you can send 722 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email. 723 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,720 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 724 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know. 725 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 2: Is a production of iHeartRadio. 726 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 727 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.