Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let
Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you. But you
Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. So look, I ain't gonna
Speaker 1: hold you. I was not going to cover this because
Speaker 1: I feel like there's somebody needs to be discussed at
Speaker 1: the Domino table to cook out, you know, and I
Speaker 1: just don't want to feed the machine. But at some
Speaker 1: point we got to decide whose man is this? And
Speaker 1: somebody got come come get their boy yee. We got
Speaker 1: to decide, okay, when when did he cross the line? Y'all?
Speaker 1: And has he crossed the line? Because you know, the
Speaker 1: important nuance it this is how we've survived is collective,
Speaker 1: you know, slaves like the you know, we we needed
Speaker 1: each other to survive. So when somebody got out of line,
Speaker 1: we looked out for each other. You know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know this, but corn rows like the
Speaker 1: braids inside of people's hair were maps. You know, the
Speaker 1: Negro spirituals you you you sang songs. It's code for
Speaker 1: when it was time to go. Harriet Tubman when she
Speaker 1: got free, you know, she escaped herself and then decided
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back and get as many people as
Speaker 1: I can, Like this is, this is our story. We
Speaker 1: take care of each other. So that's why it's hard
Speaker 1: for us to just write people off to just cancer,
Speaker 1: especially if they're black. It's hard for us because it's like,
Speaker 1: we need to take care of each other. We can't
Speaker 1: let these white people like tell us what to do
Speaker 1: with our volts. But that being said, at some point
Speaker 1: we're like, all right, nigga, you are on your own.
Speaker 1: You have hurt us too much and I never so
Speaker 1: I didn't want to cover yeah, because I still don't
Speaker 1: know how I feel. There are some statements that he
Speaker 1: said are obviously inexcusable, but I just didn't want to
Speaker 1: be a part of that. I want to be a
Speaker 1: part of that conversation the Kanye stands and I'm done
Speaker 1: with East people. I just don't want to be a
Speaker 1: part of conversation. What Sophie hit me and the good
Speaker 1: folks that it could happen here. Hit and was like, yo, uh,
Speaker 1: we got to talk about this, and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I was on the fence. We need to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yo. Whose man's is this y'all? Somebody
Speaker 1: can get the boy. So it's a crossover with the
Speaker 1: Helmy Garrison Robert and it could happen here. Teams, Sharine
Speaker 1: and we discussed this stuff. So dropping into our feed
Speaker 1: and they feed it could happen here. For politics, that's rock.
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for Kanye's gnostic phase. That a good
Speaker 1: develop good as soon as it starts being let start
Speaker 1: talking about Sophia and I'm excited for when he runs
Speaker 1: for a president uh and then declares his opponent to
Speaker 1: be we We're on the same track there. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a good day. Welcome to It can happen here.
Speaker 1: In the podcast, when are we talking about Kanye West's
Speaker 1: inevitable war against the demi urge? Oh uh? We joined
Speaker 1: again by Shrine and prop So we just talked about
Speaker 1: kind of Kanye West history up towards his most recent
Speaker 1: White Lives Matter T shirts done and his anti Semitic
Speaker 1: posts on Instagram and Twitter dot com and my main
Speaker 1: interest in the aftermath of these statements is kind of
Speaker 1: mostly how right wing media reacted to what was going
Speaker 1: on in to one of their darling's kind of saying
Speaker 1: some questionable things, and what that might tell us about
Speaker 1: how they'll handle overt anti semitism and fascistic um kind
Speaker 1: of consumerism in the future. I'm going to do a
Speaker 1: quote from New Republic again about what happened in the
Speaker 1: direct aftermath of of Kanye West's post quote. Fox News
Speaker 1: meanwhile posted an article that West merely had been locked
Speaker 1: out of his account due to an unspecific violation of
Speaker 1: the company's policies. After spending such a fulesome number of
Speaker 1: hours providing him with a platform for his White Lives
Speaker 1: Matter stunt, The network a shewed coverage of his anti semitism,
Speaker 1: other than to point to it as the product of
Speaker 1: mental illness. The effort to sweep the second round of
Speaker 1: nasty bigotry under the rug after celebrating the initial outpouring
Speaker 1: is breathtakingly cynical, but not particularly surprising. The fact that
Speaker 1: West was at least for now d platformed from social
Speaker 1: media accounts that he was using to traffic hate speech
Speaker 1: is in itself catnip for far right figures and unquote
Speaker 1: so many a far right rifter has tried to turn
Speaker 1: this into a free speech issue. Um. However, Kanye associate
Speaker 1: and Fashion Week White Lives Matter buddy Candace Owens tried
Speaker 1: to deny the anti semitism all together. Within days of
Speaker 1: his Twitter rant. Canada, Owens on her Daily Wire podcast
Speaker 1: was defending Kanye, saying quote death Con three should be
Speaker 1: interpreted as a move to protect the Jewish people after all,
Speaker 1: because because because def con is a defensive military category,
Speaker 1: not an offensive military category. See, these are the words
Speaker 1: of a deeply un serious person. Exactly, I'll be in
Speaker 1: a very a very dangerous one, but deeply on serious.
Speaker 1: This is that's this is. It's those things. Okay, be conservative,
Speaker 1: I think, however you want. But it's that stuff that
Speaker 1: is so infuriating to me where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: you do not sit across the table from me, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, okay, just I just like
Speaker 1: break character once, you know, just just like no, what
Speaker 1: is you like, There's no way I can't take you.
Speaker 1: There's no way you believe that, There's no way. Canderth
Speaker 1: has been playing the long game for a while, and
Speaker 1: that kind of reach that that reaches a culmination towards
Speaker 1: the end of this episode, which we'll talk about um,
Speaker 1: but let's let's let's let's play the clip there, because
Speaker 1: she also does some pretty gross anti semitic kind of
Speaker 1: defensive stuff as well, talking about how you can't say
Speaker 1: the word Jewish without people getting upset. If you are
Speaker 1: an honest person, you did not think this tweet was
Speaker 1: anti semitic. You did not think that he wrote this
Speaker 1: tweek because he hates or wants to genocide Jewish people.
Speaker 1: This is not represent at the beginning of the Holocaust.
Speaker 1: That's if you're an honest person, you'll meet that. You'll
Speaker 1: admit that right. If you're an honest person, when you
Speaker 1: read this tweet, you had no idea what the hell
Speaker 1: he was talking about. I had I had no idea
Speaker 1: when I read this tweet what the hell he was
Speaker 1: talking about. The tweet inspired questions, not answers. First and foremost,
Speaker 1: what is death Con three? Did he mean deaf Con three,
Speaker 1: which would be a military defense position, not to an offense,
Speaker 1: for those of you that are offended, a military defense position.
Speaker 1: Is he tweeting this because he's reading the Newsweek headline
Speaker 1: calling him an anti Semitic. Is he angry because he
Speaker 1: can't believe that he's not free to talk about people
Speaker 1: in his life who happened to be Jewish right without
Speaker 1: being accused of anti Semitism. Is he's saying, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna shut up, and I'm gonna keep tweeting, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna keep calling these people out, referring to his friends
Speaker 1: that he feels slided by, as he talking about Jared
Speaker 1: Kushner and Josh Krishner. If you're a liar, you'll say,
Speaker 1: I know I was scared. Canis I actually thought that
Speaker 1: Kanye West was going to launch a military strike in Israel?
Speaker 1: Because that's the reaction, Like when I woke up and
Speaker 1: I looked at the headlines, of reaction was like Kanye
Speaker 1: West had gotten together a military strike and it was
Speaker 1: going to go forward in the morning time in Israel.
Speaker 1: That was That was the reaction that was met with
Speaker 1: this Sweek. Now, once again, I want to make this
Speaker 1: very clear. This is not a defensive tweet. This is
Speaker 1: an open question which never seems to happen anymore. It's
Speaker 1: like you cannot even say the war Jewish without people
Speaker 1: getting upsets in the same way that you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to say black anymore. So there is definitely a lot
Speaker 1: in that clip. Um. I guess first off, we can
Speaker 1: talk about talking about the tweet as simply asking questions
Speaker 1: about Jewish people. It's like you're just like directly doing
Speaker 1: the Jewish question, Like what you can't frame this just
Speaker 1: ask like you're just asking questions about Jewish people. Really,
Speaker 1: and then and then Owens tries to link this to
Speaker 1: like a Zionist position, implying that attacks on Jewish people
Speaker 1: and anti Semitism are only legitimate if they're they're in
Speaker 1: the form of a military act against the nation of Israel,
Speaker 1: which is not how anti Sumitism operates. That's like, that's
Speaker 1: just that's just that's just not what that is like
Speaker 1: that it's it's it's pretty gross again. Just it's it's
Speaker 1: the same daily wire racism denying stick by you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the same thing they do by saying
Speaker 1: racism doesn't exist anymore because they're not racist laws in America,
Speaker 1: which first of all isn't even true. But second of all,
Speaker 1: that's not what racism is like that that that even
Speaker 1: if there weren't racist laws. That doesn't mean there's no racism.
Speaker 1: Um man, she like the man. It's like like I'm
Speaker 1: trying to put my words together because there's a certain
Speaker 1: type of like sinisterness. Yeah, it's a type of yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about they're both deeply un serious. But it's also
Speaker 1: like explicitly complicit in the in the like the rise
Speaker 1: of far right Christian fascism, like it's it's it's so absurd,
Speaker 1: but in a very dark way like it's it's it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard Kanye this morning. This is what days this
Speaker 1: October October, a clip from Pierce Morgan no less, like
Speaker 1: trying to call him on his anti semitism and yeah,
Speaker 1: just like I know we're talking about Candice, but it's
Speaker 1: like it's in the same vein of like ain't no
Speaker 1: way you believe it is? Is in in that he
Speaker 1: was like, listen, I apologize. I was talking about my
Speaker 1: experience in the music industry, which is a verifiable fact
Speaker 1: ran by Jews, And I was like, you can bro
Speaker 1: you ain't no way, ain't no way, and just character
Speaker 1: like Alex Jones broke character before, like uh, what's tuck across?
Speaker 1: In both character Tuck across in in court was like
Speaker 1: this entertainment, don't take me serious, you know, just like
Speaker 1: let me have that moment where I'm like, Okay, at
Speaker 1: least be honest with what I'm dealing with here, Just
Speaker 1: break character one like this. Just give me that at
Speaker 1: least I know what I'm dealing with. No, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: saying this is an open question. You cannot say the
Speaker 1: word Jewish that people are getting upset, like you know
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and with the with the after the
Speaker 1: like death calm. Three tweets follow up implying that Jewish
Speaker 1: people emitted cancel culture, like Robert said, directly referenced that
Speaker 1: that's that is just directly ripped from like Nazi theory.
Speaker 1: Um like it's it's it's so blatant. Like even even
Speaker 1: Cannice Owens's boss Ben Shapiro had to acknowledge that Kanye's
Speaker 1: tweets were anti Semitic. He he made He made a
Speaker 1: tweet saying back from the Jewish Holiday now, which don't
Speaker 1: like Ben Shapiro, I know what you're doing. I know
Speaker 1: what you're calling it to the Jewish holiday. Fuck you
Speaker 1: back from the Jewish Holiday now. As usual, two things
Speaker 1: can be true at once. Kanye's moves towards pro life
Speaker 1: faith and family conservatism are encouraging his death. Com three
Speaker 1: posts and black Hebrew is Alite language are clearly anti
Speaker 1: Semitic and disturbing. It's like Ben Shapiro, like, the more
Speaker 1: this is, this is, this is this. This is basically
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro saying the more he agrees with me, the
Speaker 1: more he becomes a Nazi. But I'm sure this is
Speaker 1: just a coincidence, which which I did steal from. I
Speaker 1: did steal that from someone on Twitter. So well, thanks, um, well,
Speaker 1: thanks gonna be true. Look, look, both things, bothings gonna
Speaker 1: be Let's say that you all right, Um, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it. I'm gonna do a brief tangent on this
Speaker 1: guy named Jason Woodlock. So Woodlock is a sports journalist
Speaker 1: and podcaster who hosts the show Fearless Soldiers on Glenn
Speaker 1: Beck's Blaze Media, where he quote protects the realm of
Speaker 1: common sense and challenges the group think Mandy did by
Speaker 1: elites um and he has like over half a million
Speaker 1: followers on Twitter dot com. He made a series of
Speaker 1: not great statements that are still up and went extremely
Speaker 1: viral with a lot of likes. Um saying, quote Kanye
Speaker 1: West and Dave Chappelle, is there a pattern the industry
Speaker 1: wants both of them canceled. Black raffers and comedians are
Speaker 1: free to denigrate black people and white men a million
Speaker 1: different ways, but there's a line they better not cross,
Speaker 1: and everyone knows it. I wonder, I wonder what he's saying.
Speaker 1: I wonder what he's implying there. The conflation of this
Speaker 1: is actually also as person a member of the black community,
Speaker 1: car carrying that is that is frustrating in and that
Speaker 1: we do need to talk about, you know, among ourselves,
Speaker 1: like what is acceptable in terms of how we speak
Speaker 1: about our own women, how we speak about you know,
Speaker 1: our little brothers and sisters in the world. That is
Speaker 1: something that needs to be discussed. But you don't get
Speaker 1: to call it at you know. So Jason Jason is black,
Speaker 1: but he similarly works for a far right media company. UM,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you a phrase
Speaker 1: and you could use this later. Okay. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: Serene knows it too. It's all scan folk and kim folk.
Speaker 1: So just go ahead continue. And what he's talking about here,
Speaker 1: saying that there's there's there's a you're you're free to
Speaker 1: you know, talk about you know, bad things that black
Speaker 1: people and white people have done. The line that you
Speaker 1: better not cross. He's he's obviously talking about Jewish people. Um,
Speaker 1: someone some of someone asking him, hey, what's what is
Speaker 1: this line? And then Jason posted, you can't question black
Speaker 1: entertainers unhealthy relationship with non religious Jewish power brokers in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah uh he this this was obviously called
Speaker 1: out as being extremely anti Semitic, which then he replied,
Speaker 1: you think I have a problem with people who speak
Speaker 1: a Semitic language. Not true. I have a problem with
Speaker 1: the secular culture, particularly Hollywood's promotion of it and black
Speaker 1: celebrities embrace of it. I believe those celebs have an
Speaker 1: unhealthy partnership with non religious Jewish people. He chose which
Speaker 1: words that was a dance again, this is this is
Speaker 1: just exactly, you're just doing anti semitism like you can't,
Speaker 1: you can't like it's not about speaking a Semitic language,
Speaker 1: and you know that, like you know this, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're just doing a bit like here and here's what's crazy,
Speaker 1: Like you know, in in my early days, of like
Speaker 1: moving into more like activist kind of justice circles and
Speaker 1: and for real, like even in some of the like
Speaker 1: church spaces I was in because again I grew up
Speaker 1: in like a very different church tradition. And the rest
Speaker 1: of these foods is that the Jewish community was in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways upheld as an example for us
Speaker 1: in that like, look, they don't let nobody talk about nobody.
Speaker 1: They don't let they don't they don't let it ride.
Speaker 1: You're not allowed to talk to me. And they were like,
Speaker 1: we need to be like that. They're like the way
Speaker 1: that the way that like, look they come in they said,
Speaker 1: if their community, they they keep their money within their community,
Speaker 1: like their dollars circulated around that and when you look
Speaker 1: at like statistics, they were saying among the black community,
Speaker 1: it's like a dollar, you know, a dollar only circulates
Speaker 1: once through our community, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: like I don't have the numbers right, but they were saying,
Speaker 1: like within the Jewish community, that dollar goes around like
Speaker 1: fifty six seventy eight times because they support each other,
Speaker 1: you know. And they were like that's something that as
Speaker 1: black people, we need to start learning how to do,
Speaker 1: like yo, stop being crabs in the bucket, like support
Speaker 1: each other. You know what I'm saying, Man, learn from
Speaker 1: their community, you know, learn from the fact that like
Speaker 1: you know, they keep their narrative alive. They don't allow
Speaker 1: oppression to happen to them. They they stuck together. How
Speaker 1: they accrued wealth. You know what I'm saying. I don't
Speaker 1: know how healthy this understanding is, but I'm saying that's
Speaker 1: what we saw, Like look at how they accrued wealth,
Speaker 1: like learned from them, you know. So so when it
Speaker 1: when when you hear it coming out of a black
Speaker 1: entertainer's mouth, something anti, it just it grates even more
Speaker 1: because you just like, man, what like I think one
Speaker 1: of the acts of that, which we're actually gonna get
Speaker 1: to in a bit, is some of that kind of
Speaker 1: admiration can be a double edged sword though it is.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, Like, I don't know how healthy
Speaker 1: it is, Like that's what we were taught. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: like like like what you said about like there you
Speaker 1: know how a dollar circulates way more. You see Kanye
Speaker 1: later starting to use some of that rhetoric in terms
Speaker 1: of promoting Jewish people as like controllers of financial engineering,
Speaker 1: like you see that type of you see that bridge.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about that like in a sect. Also,
Speaker 1: quick piece of history about Jewish Jewish people in banking,
Speaker 1: which it's ill like they as a people got into that.
Speaker 1: They were basically they were forced to because they weren't
Speaker 1: allowed farm land, like you wasn't allowed to farm. So
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we gotta find a job somehow, Let's
Speaker 1: do banking. You imagine they're good at it, like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, like this is this part that's
Speaker 1: like really can't. I'm like, you know, why do you
Speaker 1: know why jazz exists? Segregation, naked racism, that's why blues,
Speaker 1: Why is there hip hop? Because sep sect like we
Speaker 1: did something with the trash you gave us, Like so
Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, anyway, segregation made that happen. I'm
Speaker 1: going to read a quote from Ya Rosenberg. Quote. Kane's
Speaker 1: tweets exemplify why anti Semitism is so hard to uproot.
Speaker 1: It's a self affirming conspiracy theory. The anti Semite claims
Speaker 1: that Jews control everything. Then if they're penalized for their bigotry,
Speaker 1: they point to that as proof heads they win, tails
Speaker 1: Jews lose Kanye posted his second tweet before the First
Speaker 1: World was taken down, perfectly demonstrating how the Jews control
Speaker 1: everything is a preemptive anti Semitic defense against consequences for
Speaker 1: expressing anti Semitism. It's a common misconception that anti Semitism
Speaker 1: is just a personal prejudice against Jewish people. It's not.
Speaker 1: It's also a conspiracy theory about how the entire world works,
Speaker 1: which is why it ropes in conspiracy theorists from all
Speaker 1: ideologies and all backgrounds. It creates this antagonizing catch twenty
Speaker 1: two for Jews when confronted with anti semitism. If we
Speaker 1: say nothing, the hatred spreads unchecked. If we say something
Speaker 1: and it results in any consequences for the anti Semite,
Speaker 1: the bigot just uses that as proof of their anti
Speaker 1: Semitic world view. So that's a good kind of one
Speaker 1: oh one explainer on how this kind of whole thing operates.
Speaker 1: You know, talking about Jewish power brokers in Hollywood and
Speaker 1: people called out on that, They're like, oh see, this
Speaker 1: is an example of them trying to silence the truth.
Speaker 1: And you know, all of this type of ship. Um.
Speaker 1: The one super interesting thing that has happened since all
Speaker 1: of these tweets and the aftermath and stuff has has
Speaker 1: has happened is that we got some leaked video from
Speaker 1: the Tucker Carlson and kan Gae video. So this is this, this,
Speaker 1: this is this is fascinating. Um So Vice Vice's motherboard
Speaker 1: obtained footage of Kanye making bigotings, statements about Jutish people,
Speaker 1: and bizarre clams about fake children, as well as describing
Speaker 1: visions of connecting of kinetic energy cities sent to him
Speaker 1: by God. And uh, we're not sure how Vice got
Speaker 1: these unaired clips, but we have them and they're extremely fascinating,
Speaker 1: both on for like what Kanye is doing and how
Speaker 1: he made these statements before his tweets. Um Also it's
Speaker 1: interesting on like what Tucker is doing, like your explicitly
Speaker 1: obfuscating direct anti Semitism but still allowing the dog whistles
Speaker 1: to be to be present. Um So, inside there interview
Speaker 1: that that did air, Carlson and Kanye together outlined some
Speaker 1: of Fox's favorite boogeyman from the Clintons, COVID restrictions, cancel culture,
Speaker 1: and liberal elites. But what Fox left on the cutting
Speaker 1: room floor is just as revealing. The Tucker Carlson Tonight's
Speaker 1: team decided to edit out a clip of Kanye saying
Speaker 1: that he's vaccinated against COVID nineteen, which is you know, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: In a segment talking about black genocide and planned parenthood,
Speaker 1: they edited out Kanye's statements about the lost twelve Tribes
Speaker 1: of Judah. Planned parenthood was made by Margaret Sanger, a
Speaker 1: known eugenics with the KKK two control the Jew population.
Speaker 1: When I say ju, I mean the twelve Lost Tribes
Speaker 1: of Judah, the Blood of Christ. Who the race the
Speaker 1: people known as the race black really are? This is
Speaker 1: who are people are the Blood of Christ? This as
Speaker 1: a Chris sh is my belief. So inside the television
Speaker 1: broadcast it has it has those parts about planned parenthood
Speaker 1: and the KKK, but then after he mentions the KKK,
Speaker 1: it cuts three seconds ahead, so it skips over all
Speaker 1: that stuff around Jews and the the lost twelve Tribes
Speaker 1: of Judah, which kind of get that that is that
Speaker 1: is some of the type of black Hebrew Israel stuff
Speaker 1: that Robert and prop were talking about in the previous episode.
Speaker 1: How they're they're one of the lost tribes who went south. Um,
Speaker 1: So that that is that, But it's interesting so like
Speaker 1: he's directly talking about that way before his tweets that
Speaker 1: Tucker just completely edited out now on the on the
Speaker 1: planned parenthood point. So Sanger was indeed a racist and
Speaker 1: you genicist um, a stance that the Planned Parenthood organization
Speaker 1: has since like obviously denounced um. But you know, claims
Speaker 1: about Planned Parenthood specifically operating to kill unborn black babies
Speaker 1: are just common rhetoric in the pro life like circles
Speaker 1: and conspiracy spaces. It's not that that part is not
Speaker 1: really true, but it's a very common talking point that
Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger point is is something that like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: even I like in my sort of you know, evolution
Speaker 1: of the way I think and feel and believe. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm the child of a black panther, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So like when you you you hear things
Speaker 1: about eugenics and Margaret Sanger in a connection a plan
Speaker 1: herod but and you're like, oh, well, yeah, no, that
Speaker 1: stuff is evil, you know what I mean? UM, And
Speaker 1: you know obviously I I'm a I'm assist gendered male,
Speaker 1: you know. So there there's definitely holes in the story
Speaker 1: of understanding the complications of what it means what abortion
Speaker 1: and reproductive rights mean because I just I didn't know,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, but as you you know, grow mature,
Speaker 1: travel for me, like the the biggest, the biggest change
Speaker 1: in my thinking has been travel and relationships and just
Speaker 1: you know what I used to say reading off the
Speaker 1: naughty List, you know, uh, and you start understanding those complications.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was like that that Margaret Sanger note
Speaker 1: is a note that's hit often, you know, and it
Speaker 1: becomes very difficult until you're like, so you till you
Speaker 1: until you in the situation, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and like you are like, look, this is this is
Speaker 1: this is affordable healthcare and it's right down the street,
Speaker 1: you know. And when you're in that situation, it's like again,
Speaker 1: like all the boogeyman's and all the stories and all
Speaker 1: the warnings, all of it falls apart, you know, once
Speaker 1: you actually see this stuff in practice. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: but that that Margaret Sanger, well, I was a that's
Speaker 1: a tough title swallow. And the Planned Parent Organization has
Speaker 1: spent a long time trying to amend for their for
Speaker 1: their like an initial inclination and some of the like
Speaker 1: you genicists starting points that that they had and making
Speaker 1: sure that they're not they're not you know, yeah, continuing
Speaker 1: in that oh yeah, and like and like actually addressing like, hey,
Speaker 1: is the locations of our clinics specifically geared towards like
Speaker 1: being in more targeted communities where it's like lower class
Speaker 1: and people of color as opposed to white, affluent communities,
Speaker 1: and they have they have taken steps to actually like
Speaker 1: make sure that they're planning of clinics and locations is
Speaker 1: not it's not oversaturated in Yeah, and that being said,
Speaker 1: I'm like a white communities, they got healthcare, So it's
Speaker 1: like there's a different story, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like, you go where it's needed. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: ain't got no healthcare over here. That's why they here,
Speaker 1: you know. I Mean, this isn't obviously, this isn't a
Speaker 1: planned parenthood stand video or podcast. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, of course they got their problems, like
Speaker 1: every other organization got their problems. But like the idea
Speaker 1: that there's this like sinister plot, you know, is clearly
Speaker 1: the rantings of someone who is not well. It does
Speaker 1: it's it is parenting, just conspiracy talking points. At this point,
Speaker 1: the way, the way he doesn't the way he's doing.
Speaker 1: And in one of the more blatantly anti semitic sections
Speaker 1: that were that was edited out, Kanye complains about Kwanza
Speaker 1: being taught to his kids in school and and says
Speaker 1: that he would prefer his kids learn Hanaka because it
Speaker 1: comes with financial engineering. Was biting my tongue on my
Speaker 1: political opinion because I thought it would be better for
Speaker 1: my children. And now you look up and my kids
Speaker 1: are going to a school that teaches black kids a
Speaker 1: complicated Kwanza. I prefer my kids new Hanaka and Kuanza.
Speaker 1: At least it will come with some financial engineering. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: what wait? I mean? This is? This is this type
Speaker 1: of thing like you should learn from the Jews because
Speaker 1: they're good at controlling money. Like yeah, it makes me
Speaker 1: feel like he purposely tweeted that stuff because it was
Speaker 1: cut out, like because like maybe ing his idea of
Speaker 1: being I mean, I think I think he tweeted that
Speaker 1: stuff out. He tweeted that he tweeted up on Twitter
Speaker 1: in response to him getting banned on Instagram, and the
Speaker 1: stuff on Instagram was directly against a rapper who was
Speaker 1: calling him out on his ship um I don't know
Speaker 1: if Kanye watched the Tucker Carlson interview. I don't know. UM.
Speaker 1: And then in one of the more bizarre things that
Speaker 1: he said, Kanye West talked about a so called fake
Speaker 1: child that had been planted in his home, including he
Speaker 1: went into explicit detail talking about the child's name and
Speaker 1: the parents name and this this video clip was not
Speaker 1: posted to protect the family's privacy. UM, but he went
Speaker 1: into great detail. And we have some we have some
Speaker 1: like transcripts saying, I actors, professional actors placed into my
Speaker 1: house to sexualize my kids. He he he referred to
Speaker 1: the so called son of an associate, seemingly implying that
Speaker 1: the child was fake, saying that we we we we
Speaker 1: did not believe that the person was her son because
Speaker 1: he was way smarter than her. UM. And he it's
Speaker 1: it's the This is like the most clear example of
Speaker 1: the ramblings of someone who like isn't okay, Like it's
Speaker 1: like like someone having a mental health episode like. Connie
Speaker 1: has spoken frequently about living with bipolar disorder and experiencing
Speaker 1: manic episodes. In twenty nineteen, he discussed how experiences these
Speaker 1: with David Letterman, saying, quote, when you're in the state,
Speaker 1: you're hyper parented about everything and everyone in my experience,
Speaker 1: other people have different experiences. You know, everyone is now
Speaker 1: an actor, Everything is now a conspiracy, uncut and this
Speaker 1: is what's happening. You're thinking everyone's an actor and everyone's conspiracy.
Speaker 1: You're really I mean, you can look at gang stocking,
Speaker 1: which is probably an expression of people having schizophrenic episodes,
Speaker 1: where people believe that like crowds of just random folks
Speaker 1: on the street are like part of an organized stalking
Speaker 1: thing or just there's these One kind of common thing
Speaker 1: that happens in psychotic episodes for some people is a
Speaker 1: belief that their loved ones, their spouse or whatever has
Speaker 1: been replaced by someone who looks exactly the sin. There's
Speaker 1: also certain kinds of like we call that damage. We
Speaker 1: call that Nathan Fielder syndrome. I was going to say that,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to drag it to this. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those This is I don't
Speaker 1: know how you actually would ever study this, but I
Speaker 1: think one of the major problems are our civilization has
Speaker 1: that might actually end us is the fact that every
Speaker 1: mental illness on the planet is vastly exacerbated by the
Speaker 1: person having a lot of money, which also happens to
Speaker 1: make it virtually impossible to treat because no one around
Speaker 1: you will admit that anything is wrong. And this again
Speaker 1: might someday, combined with the fact that we have an
Speaker 1: addiction on this planet to handing a single individual the
Speaker 1: keys to a nuclear stockpile, this might all end in
Speaker 1: really badly for everybody. And when you're one of those
Speaker 1: famous people in the world, you constantly feel like you're
Speaker 1: being gang stocked because you are like everyone watching you,
Speaker 1: like every like it's it's not humans weren't designed to
Speaker 1: reach that level of fame. That's not something that we'd
Speaker 1: like developed, Like, that's that's you shouldn't that should not
Speaker 1: be possible. Our brains are not equipped for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then I feel like it's like they get affirmed
Speaker 1: in that belief because a lot of people do rely
Speaker 1: on them and maybe they're mania to like make sure
Speaker 1: they get paid or make sure like their family they're
Speaker 1: being Yeah, you're being you know, Like I have a
Speaker 1: small list of like actual like a list like celebrity
Speaker 1: friends who have been you know who are like for
Speaker 1: real celebrities and are also like, yeah, my uh my
Speaker 1: last accountants stole two hundred thousand dollars from me, Like,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even know, you know, uh this person,
Speaker 1: you know, I had this person on tour with me,
Speaker 1: and you know they robbed this guy robbed the opener.
Speaker 1: Like just all these like stories to where you're like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the people you do have around you, So even if
Speaker 1: you didn't have mental health issues, you would get paranoid,
Speaker 1: you would still get paranoid. Yeah, it's example to get paranoid.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's I yeah, all of it's all
Speaker 1: of this is very obvious as a problem. But and
Speaker 1: what's unsettling to me. Sorry, I just want to say
Speaker 1: really quickly, one of the things that the fact that Kanye,
Speaker 1: as you you pointed out years earlier, very astutely talked
Speaker 1: about the things that happened to him when he is
Speaker 1: having an episode in a very lucid way, makes me wonder,
Speaker 1: and maybe this is a little conspiratorial where they're people
Speaker 1: listening who are like, well, shit, if we can just
Speaker 1: play into that stuff, we might be able to get
Speaker 1: him to we might be able to push him in
Speaker 1: whatever direction we want. Because there's definitely a whole unch
Speaker 1: of people. I mean, I can totally see Kenda someone's
Speaker 1: doing that because because she's she's been playing him like
Speaker 1: a fiddle for a long time. And that's a long time.
Speaker 1: That's gonna reach a tipping point at the end, at
Speaker 1: the end end end of this episode. And one could ask,
Speaker 1: how could you be so heartless? Oh? How could you
Speaker 1: be so It wasn't how could you be there? Evil?
Speaker 1: But also I didn't get along the same thread of
Speaker 1: a tortured artist thinking they have to be depressed, yes,
Speaker 1: make art. I think there's an element of that even
Speaker 1: for Kanye, like I don't think, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it was if he's medicated or not, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like he is. He has said that sometimes
Speaker 1: he goes authentication. Yeah, exactly, you know, and I and yeah,
Speaker 1: the tortured artist thing. I know some like New York
Speaker 1: Times bestsellers authors who are like, yes, I know I'm bipolar,
Speaker 1: and I know when I have to write this book,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get off these pills. I'm gonna write
Speaker 1: it in in two days, I'm gonna turn in. And
Speaker 1: I think that's that's made worse by people like tying
Speaker 1: like people in doing my research for this episode, a
Speaker 1: lot of people talk to West in person and like
Speaker 1: talk about like his genius, And I think this idea
Speaker 1: of his genius mixed in with his mental state can
Speaker 1: create a really volatile reaction someone's brain when they feel
Speaker 1: like certain altered states of consciousness are what makes you
Speaker 1: have your genius. And that's really the way people have
Speaker 1: talked about this to Conye in person. I think it's
Speaker 1: really unhealthy. Yeah. I would argue that telling a child
Speaker 1: they're a genius is abusive, and it's probably true for
Speaker 1: telling an adult. It's one of the worst things you
Speaker 1: can ever tell anybody. Don't don't, no one's a genius.
Speaker 1: Stop using that word. It's poison. You think your illness
Speaker 1: is your genius? Yeah, going back to this, like to
Speaker 1: these leaked unused Tucker Carlson videos, something like this in
Speaker 1: a better world would like completely tank Tucker forever, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: but none of that matter because in any other yeah,
Speaker 1: in any other universe, at that point you should be like, yo,
Speaker 1: we gotta stop the cameras man. No. Yeah, Like, this
Speaker 1: leak reveals unequivocally how Carlson uses this platform to sanitize
Speaker 1: anti Semitism and other conspiracy theories. For a general audience.
Speaker 1: Carlson cuts out just enough to claim plausible deniability. This
Speaker 1: will not impact him professionally at all. Um, he makes
Speaker 1: his he makes a living manipult people on Fox News. Um,
Speaker 1: this should tank him. It won't, But it does reveal
Speaker 1: how he works with extreme clarity. Having these behind the
Speaker 1: scenes glimpses and then also having having the added context
Speaker 1: of these cut segments also shines a light on some
Speaker 1: of the more dog whistle the aspects that did make
Speaker 1: it into the aired interview. Uh like this bit that
Speaker 1: started with that that that that started with Kanye talking
Speaker 1: about his grievances with Jared Kushner, you know, or he
Speaker 1: made these peace treaties? Where was that? You know? The
Speaker 1: facts on this right here. So I'm like, well, I
Speaker 1: think that was between Israe and some of the Arab nations.
Speaker 1: I just think it was to make money. I don't know,
Speaker 1: is that is that too heavy handed to put in
Speaker 1: this platform? No, that's that's your opinion. We're not in
Speaker 1: a censorship business, Okay, thank you. And I just think
Speaker 1: that that's what they're about is making money. I don't
Speaker 1: think that they have the ability to make anything on
Speaker 1: their own. I think they were born into money. So
Speaker 1: when Kanye said I don't think they have the ability
Speaker 1: to make anything on their own and talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: peace treatise with the intention to make money, Carlson knew
Speaker 1: that Kanye was just talking about like the Jews, like
Speaker 1: that's like he he knew that's what was going on,
Speaker 1: and decided to keep those dog whistly aspects. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to quote from a lad near ry.
Speaker 1: This provides uncontrovertible proof that Carlson knew Kanye was being
Speaker 1: anti Semitic during the interview. In other words, Tucker Carlson
Speaker 1: and his team purposely edited their footage to make Kanye's
Speaker 1: comments into a dog whistle instead of a foghorn. He
Speaker 1: purposely coded Kanye's anti semitism. Carlson knows how to spread
Speaker 1: anti semitism while avoid getting called out. He did it here.
Speaker 1: This itself should be a far bigger scandal than anything
Speaker 1: Kanye has said. Carlson knowingly spreaded this code anti semitism
Speaker 1: and knowingly kept the anti semitism that he knew he
Speaker 1: wouldn't get called out on, and knowingly cut the part
Speaker 1: that he knew would get him in trouble. Carlson has
Speaker 1: spent has spent years spreading anti Semitic conspiracy theories, from
Speaker 1: a full documentary about George Sorrow's destroying Western civilization to
Speaker 1: multiple uses of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory to anti
Speaker 1: Semitic guests talking about globalist elites ruling in d C.
Speaker 1: This is who Tucker Carlson is America's leading purveyor of
Speaker 1: mainstream anti Semitism. He also showed everybody the the ultra
Speaker 1: light being to the genitals. He did one thing and
Speaker 1: it was more based moments. That was pretty Uh that
Speaker 1: was a thing. I was like, all right, man, okay,
Speaker 1: you did genital tannin got it? Uh, But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: his that's his particular Like mutant power is saying something
Speaker 1: without saying something, and all of us know what you're saying,
Speaker 1: but you ain't say it. So when I go, what
Speaker 1: then did you just say? You could say? What? Are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Nothing? You know it? I mean he's
Speaker 1: got it. I mean he's he's the Picasso that like
Speaker 1: just and it's and it's so infuriating and speaking of
Speaker 1: kind of dog whistles and stuff, similar to Kanye has
Speaker 1: been about the Jews creating cancel culture by doing the
Speaker 1: whole I don't think they have the ability to make
Speaker 1: anything on their own statement, Kanye isn't playing another kind
Speaker 1: of classic anti anti Semitic trope that or that originates
Speaker 1: with Nazi propaganda, um that you know, Jews are incapable
Speaker 1: of physical labor or making things. This comes up a
Speaker 1: lot in the nineteen forty Nazi propaganda film The Eternal Jew,
Speaker 1: one of the most vile films ever made a quote
Speaker 1: from Mike Rothschild, So now, I I don't think Kanye
Speaker 1: Kandie is not seeing the Eternal Jew. All the the
Speaker 1: only people, most weird Nazi nerds who referenced the Eternal
Speaker 1: Jew haven't seen the Eternal Jew. Like But but the
Speaker 1: point is that you don't need to see it. These
Speaker 1: these these stereotypes are so ingrained to how many people
Speaker 1: see Jewish people that there's things that you can believe
Speaker 1: without the slightest consideration or like a deep thought. Well,
Speaker 1: and they were, you know, the The Eternal Jew was
Speaker 1: influential in anti Semitic propaganda, but a lot of what
Speaker 1: it was doing was kind of codifying, almost if you will,
Speaker 1: the most popular stereotypes and racialist attacks of the day.
Speaker 1: Like it It didn't invent stuff so much as it
Speaker 1: was like, all right, we're going to we're going to
Speaker 1: boil it all down in kind of the most iconic form. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's I was today years old. I had no idea
Speaker 1: what you some up. Uh, But but I can see
Speaker 1: how that concept has such source material because as somebody
Speaker 1: who you know, I have just anti Semitism is just
Speaker 1: has never been on the menu for me. Um. Some
Speaker 1: of the the tropes that come with that, in my mind,
Speaker 1: seems so bizarre from like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: What did that come from? What did you talk about?
Speaker 1: They did what? Now? You know? So like someone like
Speaker 1: so to know that, like, well there is source material,
Speaker 1: there's there's stuff that comes from it comes from this time.
Speaker 1: It was because it is because this was like an
Speaker 1: intentional thing that people have been pushing towards for hundreds
Speaker 1: of years, like this is it's it's yes, this didn't
Speaker 1: just happen, this is like people are trying to make
Speaker 1: this a reality, like it's it's it has been a
Speaker 1: propaganda project and a hate campaign that's been genocidal for
Speaker 1: hundreds of years. Yeah, because I'm like, okay, you know
Speaker 1: at sometimes Okay, I'm trying to say, what up? Let
Speaker 1: me try to figure out what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can track, Yeah, like the protocols, Like the protocols.
Speaker 1: I was like, until you understand those protocols, Like some
Speaker 1: of the anti Semitic thought and rhetoric is like, man,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Like what you know? Text
Speaker 1: like that don't just like pop into existence. Someone wrote
Speaker 1: that with a specific intent, with an intent for something.
Speaker 1: But what I'm the point I'm trying to get at
Speaker 1: is like there are some racist sentiments and tropes that
Speaker 1: I I'm following your logic as to why you're saying
Speaker 1: that about them, Like clearly it's a racist shrope. But
Speaker 1: black men are violent. And I'm like, well, okay, I mean,
Speaker 1: if all you know of us is gang violence, if
Speaker 1: that's all you've seen, and I'm following your logic, you've
Speaker 1: just never been exposing any other stuff. Now, once you
Speaker 1: get exposing and stuff, you still feel like that, it's
Speaker 1: like all right, you just you just trash, You just
Speaker 1: you just trash. But I'm like, I'm following, I'm following you.
Speaker 1: You know what i mean? You only know rap music Okay,
Speaker 1: that's all you know of us. Okay, then you think
Speaker 1: that this is what we are racist, because clearly most
Speaker 1: people are more than everybody's, more than the one thing
Speaker 1: you're trying to put them in, you know. But I'm
Speaker 1: following that it's just for me again, like I said,
Speaker 1: since like anti Semitism was never on the menu, like
Speaker 1: it was never just it just wasn't a part of
Speaker 1: my world. When you hear things like the Protocols of
Speaker 1: Zion and and some of this stuff, even even learning
Speaker 1: about the Holocaust, Like if you're a black person, you like,
Speaker 1: what's your deal? Like why what? What you what is
Speaker 1: so wrong with them? Like I don't understand why you
Speaker 1: don't like them so much? Like it it's just it's
Speaker 1: like I can't even follow your logic, you know, because
Speaker 1: it's not even personal hatred of all people, right, It's
Speaker 1: it's framed within this conspiratory thing. But like, no, I
Speaker 1: don't hate Jewish people. I'm just questioning the Jewish power
Speaker 1: brokers in Hollywood and I think that they have too
Speaker 1: much influence. Right, That's how it's framed, and that's how
Speaker 1: people that's how someone like Kandie might actually like I
Speaker 1: think I actually feel because it works in Hollywood, right,
Speaker 1: But but that but that is the only way you
Speaker 1: get there is because of decades of anti semitism like that,
Speaker 1: that's it's it's it's it's that. That's that's the kind
Speaker 1: of point I was trying. Not that, Yeah, j K Rowling,
Speaker 1: Banker Goblins, and it just like exists by itself exactly
Speaker 1: like none none of these things are made in a vacuum.
Speaker 1: They made thought of that. So you said it, oh ship,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, there's a start of David on the floor
Speaker 1: of the bank. I didn't even notice it. That don't
Speaker 1: point out its yeah one. I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: things people will point out that is true is that
Speaker 1: that was not a set. They were filming in an
Speaker 1: actual building and they chose to have that there, and
Speaker 1: and the building had a star of David in the
Speaker 1: Florida and they chose to film there. Yes, it seems
Speaker 1: like that would have been something people might have noticed, yeah,
Speaker 1: at least not even go over it, not even like
Speaker 1: yo yo maybe maybe listen, maybe we don't mean anything
Speaker 1: by it, but it could be seen as you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and just like just like none of these things that
Speaker 1: are in a vacuum and Kanye's own statements are not
Speaker 1: in a vacuum. After Kanye made these tweets, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: four Chan was quick to take it, was quick to
Speaker 1: eat up the Kanye pill. There Kanye Kanye threads took
Speaker 1: up of took up most of polls posts for for days.
Speaker 1: There's there's just there's screenshots of of poll just Kanye
Speaker 1: post after Kanye post, all of all of the trending
Speaker 1: ones are all about Kanye. Uh. Nick Frentz and his
Speaker 1: like grapper followers were celebrating the tweets and they see
Speaker 1: this as an opportunity took on a mainstream you know
Speaker 1: there their brand of horrible anti Semitic fascism um, and
Speaker 1: I hope people are prepared to take on you know,
Speaker 1: fake Kanye stand accounts that are going to pop up
Speaker 1: everywhere to defending is Ani Semitism, like you know, and
Speaker 1: defending and talking about anti Semitism from the point of
Speaker 1: quote unquote being a Kanye fan. It's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of Yeah, we've been a lot of fascist trolling is
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna come in the mask of Kanye West now.
Speaker 1: And we have been Yeah, we've I mean We've been
Speaker 1: enduring among black Twitter. We have been enduring Kanye stands
Speaker 1: for a while. You know what I'm saying that are
Speaker 1: just like, no, it's just a genius, y'all, don't understand.
Speaker 1: He's playing three D. We've been enduring this for a while.
Speaker 1: It's actually been very interesting in the sphere of the Internet.
Speaker 1: I existed of seeing people being like, uh, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I got nothing. Yeah. There has been a good amount
Speaker 1: of people that are finally tapped out, And I think, well,
Speaker 1: I think that what is that type of vacuum opens
Speaker 1: up face for bad actors to use the mask of
Speaker 1: Kanye to then just promote fascism under under this mask
Speaker 1: now like Trump, like magat sure, I mean like, And
Speaker 1: I think that this creates a more specific type of
Speaker 1: dog whistle think because megas obviously way more way more broad.
Speaker 1: I meant like me like Kanye's use of absolutely, I mean,
Speaker 1: we have you know. Nick Frentees posted the tweets and
Speaker 1: his in his telegrams saying no way, we are so back.
Speaker 1: Do you trust the plan? Baked Alaska? Do you trust
Speaker 1: Baked Alaska? Posted his telegram This is real, vindicated and
Speaker 1: one of my least favorite telegram channels Zoomer Waffen, which god,
Speaker 1: just god, it's called every every time I talked about
Speaker 1: zoomer waff I like I lose five years of life.
Speaker 1: So people again, because folks who are not terminally online
Speaker 1: or like, what are you guys talking about? Waffen means
Speaker 1: weapon in German. The reason that it is a thing
Speaker 1: the Nazis talk about is that the s S had
Speaker 1: like a bunch of different things the s S did,
Speaker 1: but one of the things they had was a unit
Speaker 1: that existed within kind of the traditional hierarchy called the
Speaker 1: Waffen s S, which means the weapons s S. They
Speaker 1: committed a shipload of war crimes. Ever since, Waffen has
Speaker 1: been a thing that you can kind of like stick
Speaker 1: to the end of the name of a group and
Speaker 1: you're signifying that you think the SS was based Adam.
Speaker 1: Waffen is kind of the most prominent terrorist group in
Speaker 1: the United States and other countries. That's been a big thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not like zoom like you get
Speaker 1: what they're saying, the zoom or Waffen, right, it's the
Speaker 1: thing anyway, That's that's what you need to know. I
Speaker 1: just I just I get so pissed because I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's fucking nerds, know that, dangerous fucking nerds. It sucks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate you, y, I'm just like you, just you God,
Speaker 1: if you weren't so dangerously violent, you know, just yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that. That is the recurring statement on this show
Speaker 1: is that if they weren't dangerous, they would be much
Speaker 1: more funny. Um so yeah, the Zoomerwafins posted the tweet
Speaker 1: and not not not all heroes wear capes somewhere easy
Speaker 1: gath merch and with its anyway. So, just two days
Speaker 1: after the ati semitic posts on his social media accounts
Speaker 1: which got him banned, Conye then attended the Nashville premier
Speaker 1: of Candice Owens Daily Wire documentary project The Greatest Lie
Speaker 1: Ever Sold George Floyd and the Rise of BLM. And
Speaker 1: just imagine being one of the most famous people on
Speaker 1: the planet and choosing to hang out with the Daily Wire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like like the like they like the word grooming obviously
Speaker 1: means nothing now, but like they groomed him into this ship,
Speaker 1: like the and groomed him into this nonsense. Kanye made
Speaker 1: a lot of choices here, and those choices were like
Speaker 1: very selfish and based in narcissism. And while he is sick,
Speaker 1: he's not a victim fundamentally, but he also is being
Speaker 1: taken advantage of, right, Like that's that's fair to say.
Speaker 1: That doesn't exculpate him from his guilt inness. But we're
Speaker 1: going Mr West another another Kanye reference, Wake up, Mr West,
Speaker 1: and like, like real quick, the the part that is
Speaker 1: so well, obviously it's all inferiorating. But I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: you're you're going out of your way to purposefully tear
Speaker 1: down black people when they suffering. You don't have to.
Speaker 1: You don't You could even say, like, hey, you know
Speaker 1: which is true, Like there are some in the organization
Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter as an organization, there's some problematic
Speaker 1: stuff that needs to be discussed and worked out, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and being like, Okay, well, let's
Speaker 1: get some oversight here. What are we doing here, Let's
Speaker 1: have some accountability? Why are you why are you inting
Speaker 1: Swart Floyd Man, Well, because this is this is this
Speaker 1: is Kenneth Owens like explicit grift exactly. That's what she
Speaker 1: she Her job is to conflate the Black Lives Matter
Speaker 1: nonprofit organization with the Black Lives Matter movement, and and
Speaker 1: and and use criticisms of the nonprofit organization to basically
Speaker 1: say that any form of advocacy by people of color
Speaker 1: in you know, using the Black Lives Matter movement banner
Speaker 1: is is discredited because of the issues with the formal
Speaker 1: nonprofit organization in Portland. I have never I've never seen
Speaker 1: a single thing related to the Black Lives Matter organization,
Speaker 1: not a single thing. I mean, I guess maybe the
Speaker 1: signs like are solved by them, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: But like, it's it's not it's not a president. We're
Speaker 1: talking about risings. It's not a fit. Like it's the
Speaker 1: the conflation of the of the nonprofit organization with the
Speaker 1: movement is the specific thing that canadas Once has focused
Speaker 1: on for the past five years of her career. That's
Speaker 1: that's what she makes money on, is exploiting this little thing.
Speaker 1: And it's the thing that Tucker has adopted and this
Speaker 1: is the thing that she is convinced. It's just so
Speaker 1: it's just so like what do you do, like, okay,
Speaker 1: so any anything, okay, talk about talk about globalism you okay,
Speaker 1: that's your little thing. That's your little thing. Okay, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't like that. You don't like the Democrats,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Brandon whatever. But it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: a man died and and that's and the cop was
Speaker 1: proven guilty and that that that's that's the most gross
Speaker 1: part because Kanye is embraced conpc theories now about the
Speaker 1: fine thing, right, Yeah, but his embraceive conspiracy theories is
Speaker 1: not just limited to anti is not just limited to
Speaker 1: anti Semitism. He now openly denies the proven facts of
Speaker 1: the events that led to the most recent international uprising
Speaker 1: in the Black Lives Matter movement. He jumped on board
Speaker 1: his pal kendas owens absurd quote unquote documentary that claims
Speaker 1: the sequence of events proven in court and witnessed by
Speaker 1: the world via self and footage, did not actually happen. Um.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm like, you're going out of your way now.
Speaker 1: It's like you you're you're on a path, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're purposefully going out of your way to hurt us.
Speaker 1: And that's the part that I'm like, what I said,
Speaker 1: I don't use the word cone often, but I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: why are you doing why are you doing this? Like
Speaker 1: you're you're well because we know why you're doing it.
Speaker 1: And it's just like Candice, come on, like Cape Cape
Speaker 1: for the Republicans, do what you gotta do if you
Speaker 1: honestly think the solutions for our community comes from the
Speaker 1: conservative world, Kape for him, do what you gott You
Speaker 1: don't have to go out of your way like this
Speaker 1: is you're going to like you're taking the scenic route
Speaker 1: to just like okay, yeah, it's they it's because I
Speaker 1: don't they don't actually believe that that's what the solutions.
Speaker 1: They're just they're just living a really wealthy, extravagant lifestyle. Canda,
Speaker 1: someone gets to travel with Kanye West to Paris Fashion Week,
Speaker 1: she gets to have a red Carb premier with Kanye West,
Speaker 1: Kid Rock and ray J. Like that's that's the life
Speaker 1: that she has been able to create by exploiting this thing.
Speaker 1: And of course she's going to do it because that's
Speaker 1: how you become a millionaire. Two kinds of people get
Speaker 1: successful on the right. One kind is fuck you got mine,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get what I can as quickly as I
Speaker 1: can uh, and the other is I want to create
Speaker 1: a Christian fascist ethno state. Um, Like those are the
Speaker 1: two kinds, and one feeds into the other and Canadas,
Speaker 1: Owens has decided, I'm fine with helping the other kind
Speaker 1: of prominent conservative accomplish their goals because it won't get
Speaker 1: too bad, you know, during my lifetime. I can make
Speaker 1: enough money. I'm one of the good ones. They're like,
Speaker 1: this is this is this is the same thing with
Speaker 1: someone like Blair White for you know, for um, for
Speaker 1: trans issues. There's there's there's a specific tokenized figures Dave
Speaker 1: Reuben with you know, with gay people, like if they
Speaker 1: align as one of the good ones and they think
Speaker 1: that things won't get bad enough in their lifetime and
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they'll just they'll just be able to profit. Yeah, yeah, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: just to make sure, is Dave Reuben the dude that
Speaker 1: was like, well, scientifically speaking, a mermaid couldn't be that dark. No,
Speaker 1: that's uh, that feels like a Ben Shapiro or crowder bit.
Speaker 1: I I don't remember specifically, Okay, I thought that the
Speaker 1: way it was hilarious, it was one of those clowns
Speaker 1: they yeah, well, scientifically speaking, they're all paid by the
Speaker 1: same dude, it doesn't matter. I feel need to get
Speaker 1: this joke off, So it's frusting that Kanye not only
Speaker 1: just attended the premiere, but it's now actually parenting the
Speaker 1: disinformation and the the talking points that Kenneth Owens used
Speaker 1: in her faux documentary. So just a few days after
Speaker 1: he went to the Red Carpet, he started spreading the
Speaker 1: disinformation on the police's murder of George Floyd on a podcast.
Speaker 1: I watched the George Floyd documentary that Candice has put up.
Speaker 1: One of the things that his two roommates said was,
Speaker 1: they want a tall guy like me, they want a
Speaker 1: talk guy like me. And the day when he died,
Speaker 1: he said a prayer for you know, eight minutes. He
Speaker 1: said a prayer for eight minutes. They hit him with
Speaker 1: the fence and all if you look, the guy's knee
Speaker 1: wasn't even on his neck like that. When he said Mama, mama,
Speaker 1: his is his girlfriend, they said, he's screamed for his mama.
Speaker 1: Mama was his girlfriend's in the documentary. So that's pretty bad. Um.
Speaker 1: And after after that he starts talking about other kind
Speaker 1: of random conspiracy theory stuff that inevitably leads him to
Speaker 1: making more comments about the Jews. Um. So here's that
Speaker 1: clip they blocked me out. The Jewish media block me out.
Speaker 1: This ship lit right, I'm lit right, I'm lit, I'm lit.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, JP Morgan, I put a
Speaker 1: hundred forty million dollars and the JP Morgan and they
Speaker 1: treated me like ship. So if JP Morgan Chase is
Speaker 1: treated me like that, how they treating the rest of you?
Speaker 1: And this chaunts That's what I'm saying. I am outraged
Speaker 1: by the time. People always they want to calm it
Speaker 1: down because no matter what, you didn't break no law.
Speaker 1: I didn't break a law anything, but this is it's
Speaker 1: like a social contract. Candice always has a word for
Speaker 1: him forgetting but it's basically like they told candas so
Speaker 1: and she couldn't hang out with me. For the Jewish people.
Speaker 1: What I'm doing is I'm me too in the Jewish culture.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, y'all gotta stand up and admit to what
Speaker 1: you've been doing. And y'all just got away with it
Speaker 1: for so long did y'alln't even realize what you're doing?
Speaker 1: And it's like I can't funk with me either because
Speaker 1: y'all behind that gate of fish, y'all soft, your hands
Speaker 1: got soft. You ain't out here getting beat up every
Speaker 1: day like me. You ain't out here getting called crazy
Speaker 1: every day like me. I'm not gonna play anymore of
Speaker 1: that podcast because honestly, this is where it starts getting
Speaker 1: into the territory where it's just kind of exploiting someone's
Speaker 1: mental health issues for entertainment, and it gets like, this
Speaker 1: is where it gets very disjointed. Connie starts talking about
Speaker 1: how the Louisvatan company killed one of his friends, Yeah,
Speaker 1: who actually died of cancer. Um, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: conspiracy that Connie has developed the past year. And he
Speaker 1: also talked about this for seven minutes UM in the
Speaker 1: unused Tucker Carlson segments, which I'm also not going to
Speaker 1: include because it's also for context, Like Virgil is like
Speaker 1: royalty among our community, like what he did being the
Speaker 1: versus Black, like head designer at Louis battan Um, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us think a lot of
Speaker 1: us I sound like Trump, a lot of people that
Speaker 1: are saying no, but there is an understanding that UM.
Speaker 1: Like in a lot of ways Kanye was jealous of him,
Speaker 1: Um in the in the way that he was able
Speaker 1: to succeed in Louis Batton and then now that he's gone,
Speaker 1: and clearly Kanye doesn't grieve well as we know yea
Speaker 1: and yeah, another segment of the Tucker leak includes the
Speaker 1: clip where Kanye is discussing visions from God on how
Speaker 1: to build free energy and fully kinetic energy communities and
Speaker 1: kinetic energy cities. So this combine, like this is where
Speaker 1: I'm not going to actually include an more clips of
Speaker 1: Kanye because it's just it's it's just the laughing at
Speaker 1: the person who's not doing okay bit and that's not cool.
Speaker 1: Now obviously, like mental illness is not cannot be used
Speaker 1: as an excuse for bigotry or anti semitism um. But
Speaker 1: exploding someone's suffering through like up a manic episode to
Speaker 1: score political points is also like immoral um. And we're
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of like false choices being presented towards
Speaker 1: mental illness and anti semitism, and the answer can actually
Speaker 1: be both. Um. You know, those struggling with mental illness
Speaker 1: do not kind of they don't originate these types of bigotry,
Speaker 1: right um. But in but when you're manic, you can
Speaker 1: latch onto things and reflect them. Um. And that's not
Speaker 1: saying it's okay, but that also it's we should not
Speaker 1: deny that, Like I have seen a lot of people
Speaker 1: saying like, mentally ill people don't say racist things, which
Speaker 1: are like, that's not true. Like if like, if you,
Speaker 1: if you've been around a lot of mentally ill people,
Speaker 1: they cannot they can it's it's it's. It's the same
Speaker 1: thing with people when people's brains are deteriorating on dementia.
Speaker 1: One of the last things they can say are curse words. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's, it's it's it's one of those weird like
Speaker 1: like vector points inside our brain. So yeah, you you
Speaker 1: actually can be be racist when you're not usually racist
Speaker 1: if you're experiencing a severe mental health episode, and that's
Speaker 1: not that's not excusing you for your behavior. But also
Speaker 1: we shouldn't create this false division, and we shouldn't like
Speaker 1: in some ways it's like you're like a gate keeping
Speaker 1: mental illness by saying no, no real mentally ill person
Speaker 1: could say these bad things, which actually in supportive people
Speaker 1: experiencing mental distress. Yeah, it's on that same lane as
Speaker 1: like the you know, the mass shooters and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: If you're just going to call it mental illness, then
Speaker 1: like you can obscate any response. But but but also
Speaker 1: refusing to acknowledge that mental health can play a fact
Speaker 1: are inside some mass shootings also misses the point exactly.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, you can play a very large factor, especially
Speaker 1: in the waves like Schizawave inspired shootings. Exactly. That's That's
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say. That that that conflation of
Speaker 1: something that really is real and really is important, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: you see that. I see that with like I've known
Speaker 1: people who have worked in like um, you know, like
Speaker 1: legit human trafficking, like not like the dog whistlee version,
Speaker 1: but like actual rescuing you know, traffic girls from the
Speaker 1: sex industry who were like pulled from a village you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying and put into a brothel. Like
Speaker 1: people that are like really out here, like actually doing
Speaker 1: the work, you know, where trafficking is a thing, you know.
Speaker 1: And then you conflated with these you know, conspiracies, and
Speaker 1: then like and of course a person who really works
Speaker 1: in this thing, you like, you finally feel like you
Speaker 1: getting some traction with people to actually care about the
Speaker 1: stuff you care about, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: now now it's like if you mentioned trafficking. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't. It's like, how do I It's like, no, serious,
Speaker 1: it's really a thing. Guy's really it is, you know.
Speaker 1: But trying to disentangle it from Yeah, that's what you're saying,
Speaker 1: is like to to to do a one or the
Speaker 1: other thing is missing the point of both situations. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because because obviously, like Kanye isn't someone who's dealing with
Speaker 1: like a temporary mental health episode where he's yelling slurs
Speaker 1: on the side of a sidewalk. Kanye is like an
Speaker 1: affulent man who's making calculated and financially driven choices. But
Speaker 1: that still doesn't mean that stuff like bipolar does not
Speaker 1: play a factor in the types of impulsive decision making
Speaker 1: he's making and the types of people that he surrounds
Speaker 1: himself with, which influences this pattern of behavior. Combined with
Speaker 1: like social media and combined with his celebrity status, christ
Speaker 1: the cycle of really healthy choices. Um Like when when
Speaker 1: you're talking about like fake children being planted in your home,
Speaker 1: that's like, yeah, that's not like it's that's that's not
Speaker 1: dismissing that as being no way related to mental illness.
Speaker 1: I think is kind of a misstep. Um. I mean
Speaker 1: it's It's one of the things that's tough about this
Speaker 1: is that it hits all of the areas that, like
Speaker 1: the primary places where conversation takes part socially are worst
Speaker 1: at dealing with. Because like, as we've said, mental illness
Speaker 1: is a major factor in this. It also does not
Speaker 1: exculpate him from bad behavior. It doesn't make what he's
Speaker 1: saying not racist. Um. But it's also tied into like
Speaker 1: this deep manipulation campaign that the right is because they've
Speaker 1: been looking for a guy like this forever. And you
Speaker 1: can see like that that's why Tucker and all these
Speaker 1: folks were so quickly to spin up when he wound
Speaker 1: up being like amenable to that, like and it's yeah,
Speaker 1: because he's he's very clearly being encouraged to keep doing
Speaker 1: these sort of things for like entertainment and cloud um.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the responses to this
Speaker 1: kind of show how stigmatized that more severe personality disorders
Speaker 1: are compared to stuff like anxiety or depression or a
Speaker 1: d H d UM. Because you also don't want to
Speaker 1: like villainize bipolar disorder instinct and stigmatize it further because
Speaker 1: a lot of people can live with bipolar disorder. I've
Speaker 1: known I've known people that live with with bipolar disorder
Speaker 1: who are not going on anti semitic rants like it's
Speaker 1: like it manifests different and lots of other people. So
Speaker 1: it's you should not use this as an example to
Speaker 1: stigmatize other people with this or say it's just this
Speaker 1: um it creates you have to talk about. You have
Speaker 1: to kind of think of with this in a multi
Speaker 1: in a multi fasted fashion where someone's not just good
Speaker 1: or not just bad. It's actually you have to get
Speaker 1: you know, less into like puritanical, you know, perfectly unblemished
Speaker 1: victims and you know evil e like like evil intention
Speaker 1: depress serves like it. It's it's more complicated than that.
Speaker 1: And the Internet is bad with bad bad of nuance
Speaker 1: one of the starns out The Internet sucks at Nuance.
Speaker 1: The closest off we're going to talk about how Kanye
Speaker 1: really has kind of been played by by people like
Speaker 1: Candace Owens because a little over a week after his
Speaker 1: banishment from the two big mainstream social media platforms this
Speaker 1: past Monday, Kandie announced that he has entered a deal
Speaker 1: to buy the failed far right social media platform Parlor.
Speaker 1: Parlor CEO George Farmer said that his wife, conservative influencer
Speaker 1: Candace Owens approached Kanye about a Parlor deal while attending
Speaker 1: his Paris Fashion Week show where the boat where the
Speaker 1: pair of them wore the black wore the White Lives
Speaker 1: Matter shirts. So Candace Owens has been playing Kanye this
Speaker 1: entire time and is and is convinced Kanye to buy
Speaker 1: her husband's failing business like she's just playing him, like
Speaker 1: like Parlor has currently only daily active users. Even gab
Speaker 1: get Her and Trump's and Trump's Truth Social have way
Speaker 1: more daily users than Parlor, and Kennis Owens has convinced
Speaker 1: has convinced to buy this platform. I'm sorry, did you
Speaker 1: say her husband owns Parlor? Yes, her husband is the
Speaker 1: CEO of Partner. Okay, And for an idea of how
Speaker 1: failed it is, the people I know who spend a
Speaker 1: lot of their time hanging out in far right spaces
Speaker 1: don't even get on Parlor anymore. Like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's not, it doesn't matter, it's yes, it's the CEO
Speaker 1: is Kennys Owens husband. I am climped. I didn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's an obvious grift. Right, yeah, I'm like, see, this
Speaker 1: is a bad one. She's a very smart she is,
Speaker 1: she's a successful grifter. She that is. I I can't
Speaker 1: believe it, Like she finally broke character. What I've been
Speaker 1: asking for these last to this, these these two hours,
Speaker 1: is give me a moment of clarity. You just gave
Speaker 1: it to me, right like, she, Oh, there it is.
Speaker 1: This is what I've been waiting for. Got it. I
Speaker 1: have I've one more page before we before we close out.
Speaker 1: So okay, okay, alright. I feel I don't know how.
Speaker 1: I can't explain this, the sense of relief. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's so weird to say that, but I feel
Speaker 1: so relieved that I'm like, no, it's it's. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's extremely telling and it confirms a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that we've been thinking about what's been going on
Speaker 1: between her and Kanye for the past like five years.
Speaker 1: Um So, Kanye has been hit with a with a
Speaker 1: two d and fifty million dollar lawsuit by the family
Speaker 1: of George Floyd. The lawsuit was filed by Roxy Washington
Speaker 1: on behalf of her and George Floyd's a daughter, Gina.
Speaker 1: In In a statement, Washington's lawyers confirmed that she's doing
Speaker 1: Kanye West and his business partners for defamation, harassment, misappropriation,
Speaker 1: and infliction of ootional distress UM, and the legal team
Speaker 1: is allegedly considering a number of other possible defendants in
Speaker 1: the case, including Candace Owen's. So it sucks that that's happening,
Speaker 1: but I like that, like that, that's just like retraumatizing
Speaker 1: to the entire family. Um that they're having to dredge
Speaker 1: up all this stuff to sue fucking Kanye West and
Speaker 1: Candace Owen's. That sucks, But I hope that they get
Speaker 1: all of their money. Like yeah, I like, I hope
Speaker 1: that they get to live forever on the money of
Speaker 1: Kanye West. Um, it's like, look, dude, like again, it's
Speaker 1: just that like that oh saying it's like, you ain't
Speaker 1: gotta like me, but just you you don't. You also
Speaker 1: don't have to be in my way, you know. So
Speaker 1: even when I look at somebody like a Candice or whatever,
Speaker 1: this like this sphere of of specifically persons of color
Speaker 1: in this right wing grivet, that I'm like, you don't, like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to help me, but you also don't
Speaker 1: have to hurt me, you know. And that's and that's
Speaker 1: the part to me again, I keep coming back to that.
Speaker 1: It's like you're going out of your way to hurt us,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's I'm like, I don't get it, man,
Speaker 1: Like you don't. You don't have to do. There is
Speaker 1: so much money. Here's the thing. And this is gonna
Speaker 1: sound terrible, but I mean it to be terrible. There
Speaker 1: is so much money to be made off white people.
Speaker 1: Like you can make so much money from them. We
Speaker 1: have a lot of it. We took it from everywhere else. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can make so much from them without destroying it,
Speaker 1: without tearing us down, you know. Just it's like get
Speaker 1: your money. Okay, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm now gonna read
Speaker 1: like my thesis on this, because again I did, I did,
Speaker 1: I did not. I initially did not want to cover this.
Speaker 1: I thought we probably shouldn't. I thought that it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of explitting the same media cycles that encourages this
Speaker 1: type of healthy behavior in the first place. But I
Speaker 1: have a thesis on this that I when I kind
Speaker 1: of go through and then get on them, we can
Speaker 1: and and and and this discussion. So in an online
Speaker 1: economy based on shock ad driven head discourse and data
Speaker 1: collecting online engagement. Kanye's outbursts are useful to be deployed
Speaker 1: as ready made ammunition for culture wars, even though what
Speaker 1: he said is so obviously beyond the pale quoting New Republic,
Speaker 1: West's celebrity, still existent despite years of controversy and alienation,
Speaker 1: is simply too valuable for the Right after decades of
Speaker 1: being denied the endorsement of of predominant celebrities, with the
Speaker 1: exception of like Clint Eastwood, um and and and someone
Speaker 1: like Donald Trump, and the Rights gritting their teeth through
Speaker 1: how celebrities don't really matter to them. The Right cherishes
Speaker 1: the affection it receives from controversial crossover figures such as
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and Kanye West, and doesn't want to lose
Speaker 1: them to disrepute, or at least wants to continue using
Speaker 1: them in spite of it. West's willingness to lend his
Speaker 1: imper mater to the pet cause is of people like
Speaker 1: Carlson and kind of Swan's makes him invaluable and un jettisonable.
Speaker 1: To pick up a quote from the from uh The
Speaker 1: Washington Post. Polling has repeatedly shown that white Republicans view
Speaker 1: themselves as targets of discrimination equivalent to non majority groups.
Speaker 1: Carlson and Trump, sharing in that sense, highlight anecdotes that
Speaker 1: reinforce that sense, and push back against the group that's
Speaker 1: most forcefully calling for the playing field to be leveled,
Speaker 1: the Left, the new elite. So Carlson sees Kanye wearing
Speaker 1: a shirt that explicitly casts whites as victims and understands
Speaker 1: the opportunity. Here's a member of the inner circle of
Speaker 1: the elite, a black man who's willing to elevate the
Speaker 1: idea that white lives are disadvantaged in an equivalent way
Speaker 1: to black lives. To validate the victimization and discomfort, Let's
Speaker 1: set up an interview unquote. So for Carlson's purposes, West
Speaker 1: did not have to be holly coherent. He can easily
Speaker 1: edit out the parts where he's ranked about the Jews,
Speaker 1: visions of kinetic energy cities, and fake children. Carlson was
Speaker 1: able to present to his viewers a famous black man
Speaker 1: who is being punished for holding views abhorred by the
Speaker 1: gate keeping cultural elites. In the podcast, West combined his
Speaker 1: anti semitism and anti black infantilization into slander that Jewish
Speaker 1: people have owned the black voice. But it's Kanye whose
Speaker 1: voice and platform is being used by far right grifters
Speaker 1: for profit by stoking white populist racism against both Jews
Speaker 1: and black people, and now to buy their failed social
Speaker 1: media apps. The conservative Christian right that has grown to
Speaker 1: use Kanye as a token won't be so quick to
Speaker 1: disown him for overtly conspiratorial or biggest statements. One of
Speaker 1: the lessons that the right has learned from Donald Trump
Speaker 1: is that there's no advantages to be gained from criticizing
Speaker 1: one zone as long as they're remaining loyal to the
Speaker 1: fundamental causes of the movement, especially when it comes to
Speaker 1: exploiting white grievance. West is then permitted to be as
Speaker 1: blatantly anti Semitic as he wants without fear of sanction.
Speaker 1: He is clearly bigoted and clearly suffering, but the right
Speaker 1: clearly considers him to be the most useful idiot, or
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the brave few people who's willing to
Speaker 1: say the things that others may think but don't yet
Speaker 1: dare utter. Some have argued that there's no point in
Speaker 1: searching for meaning in Kanye's almost decades long descent, that
Speaker 1: there's no deeper insight here, just the truth that that
Speaker 1: anti Semitism is noxious and we're a tragically long way
Speaker 1: from defeating it. But I think that misses the relatively
Speaker 1: clear trajectory that Kanye has been on since ultra life,
Speaker 1: being to this now Christian identity but black shit, and
Speaker 1: the very real danger and influence that a relatively small
Speaker 1: and unknown weirdos like Candice Owens can have on like
Speaker 1: countrywide politics. And finally, to paraphrase from the Columbia Journalism Review,
Speaker 1: Kanye West's statements are not of no consequence, but anyone
Speaker 1: who spends time thinking about them and talking about them
Speaker 1: needs to not be complicit in exacerbating those consequences, whether
Speaker 1: that be platforming bigotry or stigmatizing mental health issues. If
Speaker 1: the median and the press must cover Kanye, they should
Speaker 1: do so with context and with an eye towards accuracy, reality, history,
Speaker 1: and motivation. At minimum, coverage should isolate what's important to
Speaker 1: Kanye's and the story and describe it clearly for what
Speaker 1: it is, rather than mining him for controversy and then
Speaker 1: performing ignorance or agnosticism about the substance of what he's saying,
Speaker 1: sadly too much. Top Line coverage of Kanye's recent outbursts
Speaker 1: did the latter, with several mainstream outlets referring to the
Speaker 1: tweets and headlines as alleged anti Semitic posts, or wrote
Speaker 1: that the posts have been widely deemed to be anti
Speaker 1: Semitic language that clearly reveals more about the authors than
Speaker 1: its subject. So that that's kind of my thesis on
Speaker 1: why this is worth talking about and all of the
Speaker 1: moving aspects about what's going on here between Canadas, Owens, Tuck, Tucker, Carlson,
Speaker 1: and Kandye West. So, yeah, good work, let's all go
Speaker 1: be sad. Yeah, there's not really a solution here except
Speaker 1: besides celebrity. Like, I mean, you know, all of this
Speaker 1: has at its root the same problems, which is that
Speaker 1: when you allow money to equivalentate like social and political
Speaker 1: power or equal social and political power, and when you
Speaker 1: then hand certain individuals huge amounts of money, um, a
Speaker 1: lot of them will either be outright evil or out
Speaker 1: of their minds, or a combination of the two, and
Speaker 1: they can cause tremendous damage to society as a result
Speaker 1: of it. Um. So it's good, Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: there's two. You know, from from my perspective, there's the
Speaker 1: the metaphorical question of like, okay, is he disinvited to
Speaker 1: the barbecue? Like, which is a you know, get a
Speaker 1: metaphorical question, don't if you guys know what I mean
Speaker 1: when we say that, It was like can he come
Speaker 1: to the bar few? Yeah? So like yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, so the question we need to
Speaker 1: ask as a community, as the culture, like he so
Speaker 1: lovingly decides to mock um, but is that okay? So,
Speaker 1: as a community, what does it take for us to
Speaker 1: finally disavow somebody's statements and just be like, all right, brother,
Speaker 1: you're gone, you know, because right now it's up for debate.
Speaker 1: You know, there are people that like, you know, we
Speaker 1: checked out long time ago. You know, there are other
Speaker 1: people that are like still like, you know, we love
Speaker 1: the old Kanye and that genius is still in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this album slaps Okay, I know he problematic. I
Speaker 1: know he put the red hat on, but you know,
Speaker 1: the Sunday services were so dope, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: so you have that discussion continually happening. But I think
Speaker 1: that that's something asked for for our community. We need
Speaker 1: to learn how to We need to really discuss, you know,
Speaker 1: what does it take for us to like finally let
Speaker 1: somebody go. Like again, I I keep going back to
Speaker 1: our Kelly because I'm like, dog, we knew, we knew
Speaker 1: since Aliah that like this brother had problems, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think if if there's a way to
Speaker 1: not alienate him fully so that his only friend is
Speaker 1: Candace Owens, that would be great exactly. That's that's why
Speaker 1: it's up for debate. It's like you, I don't know
Speaker 1: how that process works. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: That's part of the part. That's part of the problem.
Speaker 1: It's like, but you know why we why it hasn't
Speaker 1: had why it doesn't happen so fast? Like I said, like,
Speaker 1: our defense is normally, our collective identity is the community.
Speaker 1: That's how we defend each other and protect each other
Speaker 1: from falling off the edge, either from the police or
Speaker 1: from yourself. It's like you bring them in and just
Speaker 1: be like, oh, baby, we need to have a talk,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, But at some point you're like all right,
Speaker 1: family done, you know. And that's what happened with R. Kelly.
Speaker 1: It was like, all right, dog, we tried you know, uh,
Speaker 1: we we tried you we can't do this no more,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. I think there's that, and I think
Speaker 1: there's also another question obviously, the the American evangelical, which
Speaker 1: you know, statistically speaking, still only represents nine to eleven
Speaker 1: percent of christian as a whole across the world. So
Speaker 1: you really like it's a this is a specific to
Speaker 1: us in America problem, And I just wonder that's another
Speaker 1: question to me, Like y'all like they always looking for
Speaker 1: whether it was Tim Tebow or you, always looking for champions,
Speaker 1: you know, and and this keeps happening to you, keeps
Speaker 1: happening to you, and y'all end up looking like assholes,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and just not like the
Speaker 1: faith you say you profess, Like when are y'all gonna
Speaker 1: stop looking for champions, Like when you're gonna stop looking
Speaker 1: for your and just be like, let's just do the
Speaker 1: ship our book says, you know, like for better or
Speaker 1: for worse? Like you know, I just think that these
Speaker 1: are again, these are interesting cultural questions. See, you don't
Speaker 1: need no celebrity, Like why y'all always think you need
Speaker 1: a celebrity because you just because again you're just trying
Speaker 1: to be cool while at the same time saying that
Speaker 1: you stand against the culture. It's like, well, well, funk,
Speaker 1: will you stand against the culture? Why are you always
Speaker 1: trying to have somebody from the culture to be a hero,
Speaker 1: you know, like well ship, Like, I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying like I think I do think that Again,
Speaker 1: I don't have no answers either, but I think that
Speaker 1: these are like questions that everybody that this fool affected
Speaker 1: y'all really need to ask yourself, Like you need to
Speaker 1: ask yourself, you know, like you said, like the mental
Speaker 1: health stuff, the problem of celebrity, which is a bigger problem.
Speaker 1: But to me, these are he he he made. He's
Speaker 1: making us inadvertently ask ourselves these big systemic questions that
Speaker 1: we still are afraid to reckon with. I feel like
Speaker 1: I think that's a good note to end. Well, everybody
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for all of us here man,
Speaker 1: thanks for having the several podcasts that this is uh.
Speaker 1: You can sten to hood politics by typing hood politics
Speaker 1: into whatever it is you used to look for things,
Speaker 1: and you can listen to it could happen here by
Speaker 1: typing it could happen here into whatever thing you type
Speaker 1: stuff into, go type stuff. Now bye, Oh God is dead.
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans. Welcome to the podcast where the first
Speaker 1: episode of Spooky Week past try to figure out who
Speaker 1: murdered God and come to the conclusion that it was
Speaker 1: almost certainly will weep, I'm pointing my finger at someone else. Actually, Robert,
Speaker 1: I'm fingering Bigfoot. And wow. Okay, now now, Daniel, Daniel,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need you to just cut that audio online
Speaker 1: out of the episode so that everyone on the team
Speaker 1: can play it as a drop whenever we need to.
Speaker 1: James admitting to fingering Bigfoot. Um, all right, that's gonna
Speaker 1: be an episode everybody of a good week. God bless you.
Speaker 1: This is it could happen here. This is Spooky Week, right,
Speaker 1: we're recording our first spooky crazed be to God. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, what do we what do we have for
Speaker 1: the ladies and not not the gentleman. This one's just
Speaker 1: for the ladies. I'm gonna say that right now, says
Speaker 1: hers and slurs. It's it's what we what we got today.
Speaker 1: What we got today, Robert Garrison, is some stories about
Speaker 1: cryptids and So I want to start in the autumn
Speaker 1: Garrison was not alive and Robert and now we're much younger,
Speaker 1: and I want to start in northern California where one
Speaker 1: night through Emen set out to execute a pretty routine
Speaker 1: We trade right and had drops the kindyself, get some money,
Speaker 1: come home. And it's not exactly a secret that at
Speaker 1: that time and in that place there was a lot
Speaker 1: of illegal girl operations and it's not exactly a secret. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: have you heard about this? Yeah? Yeah, I mean like
Speaker 1: it's number one once you hit about anywhere in like
Speaker 1: the coastal northern caliph Fornia, from like Santa Cruz on up. Uh,
Speaker 1: bigfoot is like a topic not even not even really
Speaker 1: of discussion. But there's just big foot ship all over
Speaker 1: the goddamn place. Um, from Arcada to like Grants Pass
Speaker 1: is probably the biggest density of bigfoot ship. But it's
Speaker 1: all throughout or again all throughout Washington. You get a
Speaker 1: decent amount in Idaho, I think too. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: people make a lot of money of big foot. It's
Speaker 1: even a Bigfoot highway up there. But yeah, I was
Speaker 1: listening to a dogship podcast recently. It's not very good.
Speaker 1: It's called wild thing. It's buy some former NPR reporter
Speaker 1: the Squatches podcast. Right, Yeah, she's doing like a Bigfoot thing.
Speaker 1: It's just not very good. Like there's bits in there
Speaker 1: where she'll like quote one guy who's like, there's a lot.
Speaker 1: There's so much evidence for bigfoot. If you type big
Speaker 1: foot into Google, there's like a eleven million results, and
Speaker 1: an actual scientist will be like, there's no evidence for bigfoot,
Speaker 1: and she just as like, what are we to think?
Speaker 1: Both sides? Both sides? Yeah, yeah, I did not find
Speaker 1: it very edifying. I was listening to it while I
Speaker 1: was alone on the mountain this weekend. There are two
Speaker 1: sides to bigfoot story, rob it. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: one of them is wrong. No, um, it's very fun.
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I also the parts of the West
Speaker 1: Coast that are Bigfoot country are also the parts of
Speaker 1: the West Coast that grow like more pot than anywhere
Speaker 1: else on planet Earth. Yeah. Yeah, which is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Because these two things may or may not. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think they do. Please continue, Yes, so huluated, I will
Speaker 1: use to loosely use the word documentary here. Yeah, loose
Speaker 1: is is good for this, So I again to use
Speaker 1: a few words loosely here. So according to David Holt,
Speaker 1: house journalist, which is again a word I'm using maybe loosely,
Speaker 1: But he does a pretty good job and he's fine
Speaker 1: hold house. So the interesting thing about him and what
Speaker 1: I do kind of like about him, is he's like
Speaker 1: he worked as a trimmer. Like so the pot industry,
Speaker 1: there's the people who move the marijuana around the country,
Speaker 1: including smuggle it into places where it's still fully illegal.
Speaker 1: There's the people who sell it, either illegally or at dispensaries. Um,
Speaker 1: there's the people who grow it. And then the largest
Speaker 1: by number chunk of the weed trade, or the trimmers.
Speaker 1: And those are the people every season, usually in the fall,
Speaker 1: come down for three or four months northern California's southern
Speaker 1: Oregon mostly and they take raw marijuana that's been like
Speaker 1: bucked and cut off of the plant and they trim
Speaker 1: it into the kind of buds that you buy. Um.
Speaker 1: And this guy was doing that back in the nineties,
Speaker 1: and he ran into these stories about a big foot
Speaker 1: murdering two or three Mexican guys. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think he actually has a really good job
Speaker 1: in this documentary. Yeah, I I actually didn't think it
Speaker 1: was was bad. No, No, I was ready for it
Speaker 1: to be bad, but I was quite impressed with So
Speaker 1: what happened is, Yeah, like Robert says said, there are
Speaker 1: these probably migrant probably undocumented workers right who come well
Speaker 1: a lot of them, there's a good chunk of them, probably,
Speaker 1: I don't know by my estimates. Maybe are like mostly
Speaker 1: white kids from various parts of the country. A lot
Speaker 1: of them are folks who are either kind of seasonally unhoused.
Speaker 1: Many of them like live in camp basically in places
Speaker 1: like Arcada a big chunk of the year, and then
Speaker 1: we'll live on farms while they trim Um. There are
Speaker 1: a decent chunk who are undocumented. A lot our mong um,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of are like first, like particularly older
Speaker 1: among people who like came here after Vietnam and started
Speaker 1: businesses and then like their kids and grandkids got into
Speaker 1: the pot trade. And we're like, well, my you know,
Speaker 1: grandma and my aunts retired and they like they living
Speaker 1: in the woods and are good at tremming, Like we
Speaker 1: can make a bunch of extra money this way. Um,
Speaker 1: it's all sorts up there. Yeah, it's kind of fascinating.
Speaker 1: So these three guys set out to do this deal,
Speaker 1: right that they're three of the people who fall into
Speaker 1: the undocumented labor category, and they never come back, and
Speaker 1: whole house is sitting in one of these farmhouses or
Speaker 1: in a trailer or something, when when a couple of
Speaker 1: guys come in and say, hey, those those dudes never
Speaker 1: came back and they've been killed. Right, they seem to
Speaker 1: have been sort of pretty brutally murdered, but the we
Speaker 1: that they were carrying was still there, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: like somebody shook them down and stole the weed. Right.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you, by the way, if it was a
Speaker 1: weed industry thing, you probably wouldn't because everyone's got a
Speaker 1: lot of fucking weed. I Mean, people do steal weed,
Speaker 1: but if you're out there doing a murder, it's probably
Speaker 1: because somebody's fucking with your business in a bigger way
Speaker 1: than whatever they happen to have on the fucking farm. Like,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if a pot murder would not
Speaker 1: result in whatever ship they had in their trailer actually
Speaker 1: getting jacked. Okay, right then, Yeah, because the weeds I
Speaker 1: think that everyone has so at the time, their deaths
Speaker 1: are largely, if not entirely factually attributed to Bigfoot. Right,
Speaker 1: it's put out there that these people were murdered by Bigfoot. Now,
Speaker 1: they are not the only people whose deaths have been
Speaker 1: blamed on Bigfoot. Earlier this year, July two, Seminole County
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office reported the murder of Mr. Jimmy Knighton, and
Speaker 1: the press release they said Larry Sanders has reported killing
Speaker 1: Mr Jimmy Knighton by the South Canadian River. Sanders and
Speaker 1: Knighton had been noodling in the river on July. Okay, now, yeah,
Speaker 1: so given to me, Robert, you're you're from this part
Speaker 1: of the World's when you stroke a catfish you don't stroke? Well, yes,
Speaker 1: basically it's when you use kind of your fingers as
Speaker 1: bait and you catch a catfish by the mouth. Right, Yes,
Speaker 1: we call it noodling. What a country, Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: James C. Robert to the kids these days, catch a
Speaker 1: catch a catch a catfish by the north being something
Speaker 1: very different. So does noodling, Yeah, or as the Mormons
Speaker 1: call it, soaking. Sure, there's a great story. This is
Speaker 1: off topic, but there was just an outbreak in South
Speaker 1: Lake City of armpit crabs because so many Mormon kids
Speaker 1: are having having armpit sex, and it's it's so funny. Really,
Speaker 1: it's not just wow, we're still doing this. We're still
Speaker 1: doing this, gere, We're gonna be doing this the rest
Speaker 1: of your natural life. Yeah, never getting past this ship.
Speaker 1: This is what the future halls feed decades of arm fucking.
Speaker 1: So Sanders, the knighting with they were old school noodling.
Speaker 1: They were They weren't online, of course. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: the best kind of noodling in my opinion, That's what
Speaker 1: I've heard. So they're at they're at the river. At
Speaker 1: some point, Mr Sanders becomes convinced that Knighton has summoned
Speaker 1: Bigfoot to kill him. Now, that's interesting. You don't hear
Speaker 1: that a lot. You don't because I didn't think Bigfoot
Speaker 1: was summonable. That wasn't on the table of things that
Speaker 1: I thought one could do to a Bigfoot. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've always thought Bigfoot was summonable, but not for murder.
Speaker 1: For sex, sure, Okay, yeah, that's why his armpits are
Speaker 1: so crabby. Well, that's what everyone says about Bigfoot, so
Speaker 1: you can identify him in a crowd. So at some
Speaker 1: point Sanders becomes convinced of Bigfoot is on his way
Speaker 1: and he's going to kill him, and so he unfortunately
Speaker 1: strangles his noodling partner to death. Well that's tragic. And
Speaker 1: then a link part were it's gonna leave it. We're
Speaker 1: it's gonna leave it. We're just gonna move straight on. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So yeah, it does sound rather tragic, It does sound
Speaker 1: rather sad. But he seems to have reported pretty openly
Speaker 1: that he believed that Bigfoot was on its way and
Speaker 1: if he didn't stop this ritual, that Bigfoot will kill him,
Speaker 1: and a lot of as it turns out, things that
Speaker 1: people can't really explain. Often the times when people are
Speaker 1: in human to other humans tend to be explained as
Speaker 1: the actions of monsters. Right, And I want to quote
Speaker 1: from the documentarian, the director Joshua Rope, who made that film.
Speaker 1: He says, the thing that people should be afraid of
Speaker 1: is not the boogeyman in the woods. It's our next
Speaker 1: door neighbors who will usually commit acts of violence that
Speaker 1: will then terrify, you know, everybody on the block or
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. Rope said that working in northern California
Speaker 1: was very scary. Did enter a sort of underworld, you know,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, and you know, we
Speaker 1: were really mindful to try and not overstay our welcome there.
Speaker 1: So I want to get into cryptids a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I want to get into some some of the
Speaker 1: more famous ones as well as a curse. I've got
Speaker 1: a curse here. Yeah. The curse is great because it's
Speaker 1: invented by the California Park Service. But I want to
Speaker 1: explain kind of the social functions that they sometimes serve
Speaker 1: as well as just having some fun talking about cryptids.
Speaker 1: So the one that I thought might serve as social function,
Speaker 1: and probably the most famous crypted aside from Bigfoot, is
Speaker 1: our friend the Chupacabra, right and yeah yeah. In English,
Speaker 1: that translate to goat soccer, which is okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're staying. We're staying on this bite. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're on themes a bit garrison. Its culture, yea, not
Speaker 1: a costume. I'll say this. I'm reading a great book
Speaker 1: right now about the god Soccer. No it's it's called
Speaker 1: The Last Emperor of Mexico, and it's about that Habsburg
Speaker 1: who tried to become the yeah yeah, and they hung
Speaker 1: his assid in like three weeks. It's very funny. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: good stuff. Huge respect to the people of Mexico. So
Speaker 1: actually know the chuber Caabra doesn't come from Mexico, comes
Speaker 1: from Puerto Rico. But I didn't know that. Actually, yes,
Speaker 1: we get a little bit about the tuber Carbra. The
Speaker 1: perhaps the best source for this, as far as I
Speaker 1: can find, is this guy Benjamin Redford, who has written
Speaker 1: a book about the Tupercabra, and he shows that nearly
Speaker 1: all of the eyewitness accounts can be traced back to
Speaker 1: this one, the first account, which was this woman called
Speaker 1: Madeline Tolentino in the ninet nineties in uh in Puerto
Speaker 1: rican Right. So it's also much more recent than I thought. Like,
Speaker 1: the tuber Cabra is twenty seven years old, it is
Speaker 1: said's it's younger earn me, which is quite remarkable given
Speaker 1: how much cultural impact has had. Yeah, I thought I
Speaker 1: thought it was much older. Yeah, be too. I thought
Speaker 1: it was just like an old tiny border legend. And
Speaker 1: you're what forty nine, James, that's correct. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: just making no, Yeah, I'm just I'm just kicking here
Speaker 1: for a couple more years before I can claim that
Speaker 1: sweet I Heeart Mediation, get that I a ARP, go
Speaker 1: to the be able to go to the fucking the
Speaker 1: sizzler and get five percent off. That's it, man. I've
Speaker 1: got to be issued in my nineteen eleven, which you
Speaker 1: get when you're sixty years old. You get a you
Speaker 1: get a nineteen eleven and you get a Loui's Gift card,
Speaker 1: and you get to evoke the Second World War whenever
Speaker 1: anyone is rude to you, even if you weren't in it,
Speaker 1: and you're you're allowed to drive your car into a
Speaker 1: farmer's market in the state of California up to twice.
Speaker 1: You have to try. After that, you have to move
Speaker 1: to Oregon. M M. That's right. So yeah, I'm until
Speaker 1: my retirement. They I want to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about this, this super coupla. So uh. They're fascinating because
Speaker 1: like with big Foot, right there are, as you have mentioned,
Speaker 1: eleven million Google results, but no actual bigfoots right now,
Speaker 1: no one's ever found a big foot. No one can
Speaker 1: present two biggs feet a big big feet? Is that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It takes an eye, right, so it's it's from the
Speaker 1: Italian big feet. That's ready, that's right? Yeah, Okay, so
Speaker 1: there are a big feete, but there are tuper carbters um.
Speaker 1: And the reason there are tuper covers is that what
Speaker 1: people are tuber carter right, the name goat sucker. And
Speaker 1: this this will shock you, Garrison, especially that the way
Speaker 1: that they are sucking goats is perhaps not the way
Speaker 1: you would expect. Interesting. Yeah, they're very innovative in this regard.
Speaker 1: What is happening is people are finding their goats, their chickens,
Speaker 1: their live stock, with their throat ripped out. Yeah yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so it is the way you most animals need throats, right,
Speaker 1: it's one of the parts that Yeah, they're not interchangeable,
Speaker 1: they're not. Yeah, they're really it's good to know. This
Speaker 1: is all really important information. Yeah, so throat free goats, cattle,
Speaker 1: cheap chickens tend not to survive very long. So a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of times people come out in
Speaker 1: the morning find their animals throatless and dead. Yeah you could.
Speaker 1: You could call it a deep throating. That's where they
Speaker 1: get it right deep in the throat. So they these
Speaker 1: animals are dead, and the people claim that they're drained
Speaker 1: of blood, which isn't quite true. Of course, there's there's
Speaker 1: only there's only two possible explanations, one obviously being vampires um,
Speaker 1: the other being this being this cript creature. Only possible
Speaker 1: things that could be that Supercabra is a vampire. It's okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's where the ven diagram overlaps. It's this
Speaker 1: kind of it's it's got goat like legs actually, but
Speaker 1: then it's bipedal, has kind of a human torso and
Speaker 1: a sort of lizard meats wolf face. It's okay, so
Speaker 1: we're we're virging in like Jersey devil vampire terror. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it prefers warmer climate. It doesn't like Jersey, and frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean me neither, yea who doesn't. Yeah, look, I
Speaker 1: don't go east to New Mexico, and I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone else should either. No, it doesn't. It doesn't care
Speaker 1: for Bruce Springsteen, and it doesn't want to live in
Speaker 1: New Jersey, so it stays out west. But it's been
Speaker 1: reported all over the world. Actually. Now, the a couple
Speaker 1: of interesting things about these supercabra is. One is that
Speaker 1: people have found them, especially in Texas. Right, are you
Speaker 1: familiar Robert with Texas blue dogs? No, okay, I go
Speaker 1: tell Robert something about Texas. So this lady, I don't
Speaker 1: have her name right down here, she was a Texas nutritionist.
Speaker 1: And but we do. By the way, I will say,
Speaker 1: when it cames to like cryptids people taught me about
Speaker 1: in Texas, it was the tuper cabra. Oh well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we mean we're basically Mexico like yeah, yeah, not Ted Cruz,
Speaker 1: who is the other famous Texas crypted Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: like Ted Cruz. This this tuper cabra had actually been
Speaker 1: to a farm and had been ripping out the throats
Speaker 1: of these animals, right, And this lady had a problem
Speaker 1: with with the animal's throats being ripped out. And then
Speaker 1: one day she finds the corps in which she presumes
Speaker 1: to be a chupercabra. It is hairless, it looks kind
Speaker 1: of like a dog that has pronounced glands on its bumps,
Speaker 1: on its back, I guess, and it has thick blue skin.
Speaker 1: So what why would you do, Robert, if you, if
Speaker 1: you were living in Texas you come across a dead
Speaker 1: chuper cabra, I mean, fry it up a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know. I hadn't even even some green chili. Throw
Speaker 1: that ship on there and just kind of haven't even
Speaker 1: make sense that one didn't even hit me. But yeah,
Speaker 1: having yeah, I know, there was a couple of taco
Speaker 1: spots we went to in Texas, which that might have
Speaker 1: been what was going on. Yeah, you just get whatever
Speaker 1: kind of me done man or meets meat. Yep. So
Speaker 1: that's not what this lady did. She was a nutrition
Speaker 1: its preaps, so she was a little little worried about
Speaker 1: the nutritional content. She had it stuffed and it's in
Speaker 1: her living room today. Okay, okay, it's just like a
Speaker 1: boy like what like, what what is it? Well, that's
Speaker 1: an interesting question, isn't it? Gary's It is an interesting question? Yes,
Speaker 1: what the what the blue dog seems to be? It
Speaker 1: is some kind of hybrid of a Mexican wolf and
Speaker 1: a coyote that has some kind of mange, which has
Speaker 1: made all its fair fall off. Nearly all of the
Speaker 1: Chooper cabras are are some sort of canine with mange,
Speaker 1: because mange makes it look like a fucking monster. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what like if you saw a giant sphinx cat,
Speaker 1: you would also think that's a cripta Yes, yeah, and
Speaker 1: especially if they've been ripping the throats. Are you animals, right,
Speaker 1: because these poor coyotes and feral dogs and search is
Speaker 1: uh so weakened by the main so they can't prey
Speaker 1: on wild animals, and so they tend to come Okay, right,
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to catch chickens if you can get
Speaker 1: into the coop, right, because they've got nowhere to go
Speaker 1: or to catch goats, and so unfortunately, what's happening is
Speaker 1: that these dogs, these various canids are getting Maine and
Speaker 1: they are unfortunately too weak to hunt, and so they're
Speaker 1: killing things like captive goats and chickens. And that is
Speaker 1: where the tupercabra miss comes from. Going back to the
Speaker 1: bipedal tupercabra though, it's very interesting. That sounds a little
Speaker 1: bit more fun. Yeah. So, in the year before the
Speaker 1: tuper Carbra was seen, there was a film made in
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and it was called Species Oh man, Yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately, the the original eyewitness reports which began the
Speaker 1: year after that film was released, Yeah, this I've heard.
Speaker 1: They all perfectly described the creature. It's got the spines
Speaker 1: on its back, Radford. Radford is a person doing right
Speaker 1: In the book, Radford said, the resemblance between the creature,
Speaker 1: which is called Sill in the film and the tuper
Speaker 1: cabra is really impressive. So yeah, the old quadrupedal tuper cabra,
Speaker 1: it's a dog with Maine. The bipedal tuper caabra seems
Speaker 1: to be exclude if Lee explained by this this movie
Speaker 1: and people's feelings about United States colonialism in Puerto Rico,
Speaker 1: specifically the number of defense facilities and labs in the
Speaker 1: un k Rainforest, and their feelings that maybe something like
Speaker 1: this ship could come out of one of these US labs,
Speaker 1: because if the US was developing a terrible creature that
Speaker 1: sucked the blood of people, it would absolutely do it
Speaker 1: in one of its colonial properties. Right, Yes, that entirely
Speaker 1: makes sense. So there's there's in a sense to you,
Speaker 1: per Carbre, according to Radford's theory, gives a physical manifestation
Speaker 1: of this feeling of disgust with the the United States.
Speaker 1: And I got a couple of other cryptids. I was
Speaker 1: going to talk very briefly about the Beast of Procter Valley,
Speaker 1: and then I want to talk about the curse of Body,
Speaker 1: which is a curse, not a cryptid. But first Robert
Speaker 1: do you know which what will not ambush your life
Speaker 1: stock and rip its throat out? Um, I mean like
Speaker 1: a like a good sheep dog wouldn't do that. That's right,
Speaker 1: and that's why this so it is presented by border collies. Wow,
Speaker 1: finally we finally got the big deal with the border collie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's as real complex. That's good. Yep. Just use promo
Speaker 1: code Robert Evans when you're buying your border collie. Tempt
Speaker 1: and off. Just walk up to a border collie and
Speaker 1: shout my name and it's face, try to grab its
Speaker 1: food away from it rapidly too. That's a good way
Speaker 1: to get their attention and see what happens. Refused to
Speaker 1: be herded. Yeah, so see if it likes that. All right,
Speaker 1: we're back. I hope you've all got your border collies
Speaker 1: because this this next, this next crypted is it's a
Speaker 1: little local one. Okay, So they're crypted a bit like
Speaker 1: the Tubercarbo all across the country. But the one that
Speaker 1: we have closest to San Diego is called the Proctor
Speaker 1: Valley Beast. And now to understand the Proctor Valley Beast,
Speaker 1: I think you've got to understand Proctor Valley. Proctor Valley
Speaker 1: is exactly the sort of dirt road that you go
Speaker 1: down when you're sixteen years old when you want to
Speaker 1: go somewhere with your date, pound a few beers and
Speaker 1: get away from your parents. Right, these kind of exist
Speaker 1: all over the country, all over the world probably, and
Speaker 1: there a little closer. They're close enough to know about,
Speaker 1: but far enough away to seem weird and distant. Right,
Speaker 1: And Proctor Valley is a gravel road and you can
Speaker 1: drive down at a regular cub. It's pretty washboarded. There's
Speaker 1: no lights, there's no street lights, nothing like that. Right,
Speaker 1: these days, your greatest danger when you're driving, riding a bike,
Speaker 1: or walking or driving down Propert Valley Road is the
Speaker 1: Board of Patrol absolutely hauling ass in one of their
Speaker 1: Ford Raptors, which they seem to have obtained. And I
Speaker 1: will never understand their love for the Ford Raptor. Yea,
Speaker 1: it is. I don't know how much those costs, but
Speaker 1: it is an obscene amount of money to spend on
Speaker 1: a pickup truck. Well, it's also like, look, if I'm
Speaker 1: going to be out in the in the middle of
Speaker 1: nowhere and trusting an off roading vehicle, my first pick
Speaker 1: is not going to be the Ford God damn rap.
Speaker 1: Well you've got to buy American robot. Yeah. But their
Speaker 1: border control of course, they're driving forwards, unbelievable. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: they always have a predator drone again, it can come
Speaker 1: rescue him. Yeah. Yeah, the border patrol and steroid abusers
Speaker 1: in my old neighborhood in West l A. Shaking hands
Speaker 1: over the Ford raptors. Yea, Ford raptors with illegal things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ford raptors. The car you can only drive if you
Speaker 1: have adult onset acne caused as a result of objective
Speaker 1: hormones into your fucking thigh every night. They's had a
Speaker 1: lot of them in l A. Coincidentally. Yeah, we already
Speaker 1: need one for you know, getting down Beverly Hills. But
Speaker 1: not the good hormones, like the ones you you steal
Speaker 1: from the horses blood. Yeah. Yeah, the hormones you take
Speaker 1: when you're wanting to be more matchup but maybe not quite,
Speaker 1: not quite achieving your gender insecurities. Okay, So legend has
Speaker 1: it that young couple headed off down Proctor Valley Road
Speaker 1: one night and their car broke down, so the young
Speaker 1: man gets out. This is a male female couple and
Speaker 1: he's going to fix the car, right, And he says
Speaker 1: to the lady in a very chivalrous way, that she
Speaker 1: should lock the doors so she's safe. Right. That's last
Speaker 1: she hears him. So she assumes he's gone off to
Speaker 1: get some help. And she nods off, and she's got
Speaker 1: the doors docks very safety knots off and she's a
Speaker 1: woken by a kind of scratching sound and the winds howling.
Speaker 1: Every time the wind blows is a little scratch on
Speaker 1: the roof. Scratch scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch scratch, right, wind noise.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the wind noise. And she
Speaker 1: starts shooting herself right. She's very scared now. Scratch scrat scratch, win, win, win,
Speaker 1: scratch scrat scratch. And she stays there till sunshine when
Speaker 1: she's son up. When she's woken up by the good
Speaker 1: people of the San Diego Sheriff's Department San Diego Sheriff's
Speaker 1: Department of shouting their pointing guns, said they're doing their thing.
Speaker 1: Why are they doing that? Because her boyfriend is hanging
Speaker 1: upside down, dismembered from the tree above her, and his
Speaker 1: nails are catching the top of the car. Every time
Speaker 1: the wind blows him right, he's been killed by the
Speaker 1: product valley beast. Now, the product Valley beast is is
Speaker 1: an animal of kind of nondescript shape and size. The
Speaker 1: in the seventy the local radio DJ organized a search
Speaker 1: for the Propta Valley beast. Right, people went out at night.
Speaker 1: Previously the prompt vality beast. Most of the stories it
Speaker 1: kind of looked like a kind of winged, bipedal half
Speaker 1: human gobbling creature. It changed it form in the nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies when people conducting it's just kind of a teen
Speaker 1: radio thing. In the nineteen seventies, right, people conducting this
Speaker 1: search reported finding a deranged cow. Okay, the cow was
Speaker 1: probably not directed. The cow was just sleeping. Yeah. I've
Speaker 1: known more cows than most people. I grew up on
Speaker 1: a cow farm. I've seen them behave in a variety
Speaker 1: of ways. I've never seen one appeared deranged. That's because
Speaker 1: they're moving very quickly. Sometimes they're scared, sometimes they're sick.
Speaker 1: Deranged as an interesting because cows don't really have enough
Speaker 1: going on up there to be deranged. Because you didn't
Speaker 1: grow up in the United Kingdom in a certain period
Speaker 1: of time, Robert, when our cows became mad. Well, but
Speaker 1: that's still I've I've seen cows that have mad how disease,
Speaker 1: and they're like, they're ill, but there I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not like yeah, yeah, that's getting the name of
Speaker 1: their eldest daughter and lest they lose their way home
Speaker 1: going on violent rampages. They're asking where their husband, who
Speaker 1: died twenty three years ago is when they wake up
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Anyway, senile cow they
Speaker 1: have to go to. They go and live on a
Speaker 1: farm when they got all the cats. Why you haven't
Speaker 1: seen him, Robert, I sure do. Like that young Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan that my cowboys. Yeah, yeah, they they get. They get. Oh,
Speaker 1: they forget things. They vote for Donald Trump, they do
Speaker 1: a fascism. That's what happens to cows is the only
Speaker 1: ways cows can die. Otherwise they live very happy and
Speaker 1: fulfilled lives in the countryside. So why why do we
Speaker 1: have this PRODUCTI Valley bes right, Why is there a
Speaker 1: mad cow that murdered a young man who was it
Speaker 1: was out late that with a young woman. No one,
Speaker 1: No one knows who this young man is, right, I
Speaker 1: did to trauma best to find reports of any murders
Speaker 1: in Proctor Valley. And of course it won't surprise you
Speaker 1: to learn that we have in fact discovered dead bodies
Speaker 1: in Proctor Valley, because unfortunately, Proptic Valley is just a
Speaker 1: few miles from the border, and and I've spent quite
Speaker 1: a lot of time out in that area, and that unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the people that we are finding then in Proctor Valley
Speaker 1: haven't been killed by deranged cow or a bipedal beast,
Speaker 1: but in fact by the elements rights people trying to
Speaker 1: cross the border and find a better life for themselves
Speaker 1: and not making it as far as the dirt road
Speaker 1: which leads to a small town, which leads to a
Speaker 1: big road, which leads to a big town that is
Speaker 1: close to there. And so what the Proctor Valley Beast
Speaker 1: is a myth that serves to tell kids to not
Speaker 1: drive down dirt roads late at night on their own right.
Speaker 1: It's two kids, fun your parents. Yeah, absolutely, fucking send it.
Speaker 1: Your mediata can handle it. Get off the road, do
Speaker 1: some drifting. What's the worst that could happen? Maybe if
Speaker 1: you're out there, take a gallon of water. Uh, And
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm not going to say that because there
Speaker 1: might be a crime. Yeah, we can cut that. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, a handgun with a single bullet in
Speaker 1: case you get stuck off road, a silver bullet and yeah,
Speaker 1: and a nail to hit it with. So the last,
Speaker 1: the last curse I want to get to you is
Speaker 1: the curse of Body State Historic Park. Do you know, Joe,
Speaker 1: what at is? Robert? No, When you said Body, I
Speaker 1: thought immediately about the movie Point Break. Okay, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it. Oh well that's okay, that Garrison you've seen it. No,
Speaker 1: point I'm sorry, I forgot this is the Point Break.
Speaker 1: This is an audio medium. Yeah, I can't shake my head. No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm not seen Point Break. You haven't seen Point Break?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. I watched the filmmaker's previous,
Speaker 1: far superior film that will not be named. This is
Speaker 1: that like one person will get who Well, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to watch Point Break. But there's a guy named
Speaker 1: Body on it and he is kind of a crypted
Speaker 1: interesting so there Body has a bit of a problem, right,
Speaker 1: Body is an abandon all those those banks. Anyway, this
Speaker 1: story does involve some robbing, Oh good, Yeah, but have
Speaker 1: a bit of theft on the podcast So what happened
Speaker 1: in Body is Body's got a problem, right. Body has
Speaker 1: a problem specifically with mail, because almost every week when
Speaker 1: the rangers from Body travel into town to get the mail,
Speaker 1: they have to collect half a dozen or so little
Speaker 1: packages containing little things like rocks, pizzas of wood, fragments
Speaker 1: of pottery, or coins. And all of those little packages
Speaker 1: have letters attached to them. And I'm going to read
Speaker 1: from some of those letters. Please find enclosed one weather
Speaker 1: beat an old shoe. The shoe was removed from Body
Speaker 1: during the months of August. My trail of misfortune is
Speaker 1: so long and depressing it can't be listed here. Another one.
Speaker 1: You can have these god forsaken rocks back. I've never
Speaker 1: had so much rotten luck in my life. Please forgive
Speaker 1: me for ever testing the curse of Body. Okay, so
Speaker 1: what we got here, what we got here is a curse, right,
Speaker 1: just a good old fashioned If you steal something from
Speaker 1: the town, the town will come back and hurt you. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so Body popped up in the late nineteenth century
Speaker 1: gold rush rights in between Mono Lake a Lake Tahoe.
Speaker 1: They it's named after a gold prospector. There was some
Speaker 1: gold found there in fact, at its height, Body hosted
Speaker 1: around ten thousand people, right, And for those ten thousand people,
Speaker 1: there were sixty saloons, which is a pretty good ratio.
Speaker 1: There's multiple documented gunfights on the main street and Body
Speaker 1: it seems like the stereotypical wild West town that after
Speaker 1: the gold rushers are over, it wasn't such a great
Speaker 1: place to live, so people abandoned it. And it's now
Speaker 1: managed by the California Park Service, right, And the California
Speaker 1: Park Service curates this ghost town in arrested decay so
Speaker 1: that people can come and see this little slice of history.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot we can learn from these, like
Speaker 1: these places that have been abandoned, right, we can learn
Speaker 1: a lot about the history of everyday life, like what
Speaker 1: things do people have in their kitchen? Why with this
Speaker 1: next to that? Why is there a knife here? Why
Speaker 1: is why the beer bottles kept here? There's a lot
Speaker 1: that historians can learn over time that they might not
Speaker 1: find initially. So it's important to keep these things in
Speaker 1: really pristine condition. Right. The problem that they had was
Speaker 1: once they opened the park, you could just walk around town. Right,
Speaker 1: It's not like a museum. There aren't a little ropes
Speaker 1: that there aren't plexiglass diviolence keeping you away from stuff,
Speaker 1: and people think that as an invitation to steal ship,
Speaker 1: and steal ship they did so. The park's ranger, who
Speaker 1: I cannot find the name of anywhere, but at some
Speaker 1: point a park ranger giving the walking tours around Body,
Speaker 1: started telling people about this legendary curse. And this curse,
Speaker 1: he said, made it so that anyone who took anything
Speaker 1: from Body would be pursued by bad luck for the
Speaker 1: rest of their life. Didn't really think anything of which,
Speaker 1: didn't want people to steal ship, right, And as a result,
Speaker 1: hundreds of people who had stolen things from Body started
Speaker 1: returning them in the mail. Right. They're blaming everything from cellulitis, cancer,
Speaker 1: failed relationships, so on the thing that they stole from body.
Speaker 1: That this would just be funny if it wasn't for
Speaker 1: the fact that every single one of these items has
Speaker 1: been stolen from a protected site. Right. The Park Service
Speaker 1: has now set itself up with this huge administrative burden,
Speaker 1: which is reporting a theft for every single shoe or
Speaker 1: piece of glass or button that's stolen from body. So
Speaker 1: it's taking up a huge in order amount of their time,
Speaker 1: and they no longer will speak. I've tried to reach out.
Speaker 1: I didn't get a response. I did. I did drop
Speaker 1: them a Facebook message on their page, trying to trying
Speaker 1: to talk to someone about this. But they no longer
Speaker 1: talk about the curse because it's created such a burden
Speaker 1: for them, filing police reports to all these buttons. This
Speaker 1: is the actual curse that they did themselves, Like this
Speaker 1: is this is how most curses actually work. That you
Speaker 1: just actually like the effect is what you turned the
Speaker 1: thing into and now you're forced to all the police
Speaker 1: reports and that's the actual effect of the curse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's wonderful. I think it's great that they
Speaker 1: made this this rod for their own bag. You know,
Speaker 1: you know what won't curse you with cancer or sell ulitis? Garrison,
Speaker 1: I cannot. I there's there's a lot of weird stuff
Speaker 1: that ever excellent mobile will give you cancer. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well the gold that we're about to plug, that's totally
Speaker 1: totally safe. You can huff that gold, you can melt
Speaker 1: it down, dip your hand in, get a gold plate
Speaker 1: at hand, totally fine, lick it, lick it, pop it.
Speaker 1: You know that's that to Garrison. Sure, shame was incredibly
Speaker 1: popular when I was a kid, it was like everywhere. Alright,
Speaker 1: we're back and having all received our little bags of
Speaker 1: gold for that plug we did. Yep, I have mine
Speaker 1: right here. I like to keep it with me in
Speaker 1: case the ship hits the fan. I'm buried. I've buried
Speaker 1: mine in the middle of the Organ desert. Smart, I've
Speaker 1: buried a couple of things in the middle of the
Speaker 1: Oregon desert, none of them gold. Well, that was a
Speaker 1: big sense on your definition of gold. Yeah, Bigfoot's arm pit,
Speaker 1: that's what you buried out in your definition of that
Speaker 1: guy started a barbershop in whatever. Continue Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't need to talk about that on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks do. We don't want any more Robert's felonies on
Speaker 1: on Maine, since only a felony if the police find
Speaker 1: the body. M that's true, But maybe you could put
Speaker 1: put some sh it out there about a curse related
Speaker 1: to the body. Yeah, sure, I give it some Maine
Speaker 1: ya and then stuff it. So why why do we
Speaker 1: have curses encrypted? Obviously partly because it's just sucking fun,
Speaker 1: and partly because some of our beliefs, right like if
Speaker 1: we if we look at Dirk him or what dirkhim
Speaker 1: thought religion worth religion is kind of an outgrowth of
Speaker 1: society that unites people based on a moral code. Right,
Speaker 1: and functionalists more broadly in sociology, believe that these beliefs
Speaker 1: serve and function in society. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of these things help us explain things that we can't
Speaker 1: otherwise explain, or give a more palatable explanation for things
Speaker 1: that we don't care to explain, right, or things and
Speaker 1: and like in nearly all of these cases, there are
Speaker 1: things that rip children away from their mothers. There's another
Speaker 1: Mexican like shape shifting, which that ripped children away from
Speaker 1: their mothers. Right. Unfortunately, there are things that ripped children
Speaker 1: away from their mothers, and your taxpayer dollars pay for them. Right,
Speaker 1: But it it works a little better to explain things
Speaker 1: that we don't that don't fit with our other systems
Speaker 1: of belief through Like if if we fundamentally believe right
Speaker 1: that that I know that that the world is good
Speaker 1: in capitalism is wonderful, and that gradually things will trickle
Speaker 1: down so that everyone gets richer of the rich get
Speaker 1: richer first, it can become very hard to explain the
Speaker 1: state of the world unless you're a member of the
Speaker 1: Conservative and Union As Party of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
Speaker 1: of course, and so instead we create these external things, right,
Speaker 1: these things that go bump in the night, So sometimes
Speaker 1: they can be a proxy for external forces, right. The
Speaker 1: tuper Cabra in a way kind of explains as we
Speaker 1: get closer to nature and nature pushes back on us
Speaker 1: a little bit, that why that happens, right, rather than
Speaker 1: just saying, oh, funk, we've given all these cooties Maine.
Speaker 1: How that? How on earth are we in a state
Speaker 1: where there's a blue dog walking around the The tuper
Speaker 1: Caabure also serves as a way to kind of personify
Speaker 1: for people in Puerto Rico, either consciously or unconsciously, that
Speaker 1: the terrible impact of the United States. It's only lives
Speaker 1: on there right, which it's not very hard to see,
Speaker 1: and even the Proctor Valley beast right that, so stay
Speaker 1: away from this dark road near the border late at night.
Speaker 1: There were reasons to stay away from there, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: there are there are also reasons to go there and
Speaker 1: try and help people who are genuinely suffering, and lots
Speaker 1: of people I know going go and leave water out
Speaker 1: there So these curses they kind of like credit scores, right,
Speaker 1: they're not real, but they can sometimes ruin your life. Um,
Speaker 1: and so sometimes it's just easier to pretend that it's
Speaker 1: magic doing that rather than this overarching global system which
Speaker 1: is not very nice. And that's kind of where I
Speaker 1: want to finish up. I guess is this. These are
Speaker 1: ways to explain things that we can't always explain, and
Speaker 1: that's that's sometimes okay because sometimes it can be hard
Speaker 1: to confront these things. You've got anything else you want
Speaker 1: to say about cryptids, Robert, I don't know. Um. I
Speaker 1: think if you're in an industry that's adjacent to illegal
Speaker 1: drugs and you murder someone in the woods, it's probably
Speaker 1: a good idea to blame it on Bigfoot. So that
Speaker 1: would be my advice for our listeners is to blame
Speaker 1: your crimes on bigfoot. M hm, I don't know. Do
Speaker 1: you guys believe in Bigfoot? Let's let's end by talking
Speaker 1: about that, like like actually like believe in the physical
Speaker 1: ape like thing that's been dustly undiscovered that rooms in
Speaker 1: say ape like Garrison primate. I think doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 1: ape like sure primate probably, and I do I do
Speaker 1: do not do not think that there's a physical one exists. Now.
Speaker 1: I think, like we've mentioned before, like the words you know,
Speaker 1: you can say like a curse isn't really but it
Speaker 1: can still have effects based on how we talk about
Speaker 1: it and how like we can kind of make it
Speaker 1: real by our own actions. And the same thing like
Speaker 1: I don't think Bigfoot of the primate exists, but as
Speaker 1: a cultural symbol that has him packet base. It is
Speaker 1: real in some way. Um, but it's not like not
Speaker 1: like except for I would say it is real in
Speaker 1: a physical way. Um. And uh, have you seen a
Speaker 1: big foot robber? Are you gonna just it's this way
Speaker 1: you drop in your big foot? I actually, I actually have.
Speaker 1: I've seen a couple. I've seen a couple of large
Speaker 1: animals out in the woods. You've seen weird in the woods.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm not comfortable calling it a bigfoot,
Speaker 1: but I am weird weird things in the woods certainly. Certainly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of weird things in the woods
Speaker 1: and all of them were bigfoot, as far as has
Speaker 1: anyone has ever been able to convince me. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you get right down to it, isn't
Speaker 1: that what Christmas is all about? Yes, half happy Halloween
Speaker 1: and happy Halloween everybody. Yeah. Oh oh no, there's that
Speaker 1: monster coming to kill me with his fentinel knife. Ah,
Speaker 1: it got me, what a bummer. Welcome to Welcome to
Speaker 1: Spooky Week when we're talking about all of the scariest
Speaker 1: things a podcast with foreshadowing, that is foreshadowing. That's right,
Speaker 1: twent Deputy Garrison Davis just fentanel by being near it
Speaker 1: on the seventeen knock as. Yep, it was very scary,
Speaker 1: very very very spooky. Yeah. Ah, it's good. It's good too.
Speaker 1: It's good to be It's good to be back with
Speaker 1: Spooky Week. All right, So this episode, I believe Chris
Speaker 1: has something very special prepared for us. Yes, so this
Speaker 1: is just an we are talking about one of the
Speaker 1: most immediately recognizable and enduring symbols of Halloween and one
Speaker 1: of the things that I've had to spend the most
Speaker 1: time cropping out of party invitations when I was sending
Speaker 1: them to kids. Oh no, we're talking talking other other
Speaker 1: iconic Yeah, well this is the one, like like specifically,
Speaker 1: I just spent a lot of time cropping this out
Speaker 1: of I fucking like party invitations people, because if like
Speaker 1: you're you're in you're in your like fucking shitty Christian suburb.
Speaker 1: And if you send a kid home with an invitation
Speaker 1: that has a that has a black cat on it, uh,
Speaker 1: their parents will pull them out of public school because
Speaker 1: of the like the rising threat of Satanism. Better to
Speaker 1: stick to the tried and true, you know, like put
Speaker 1: the Uni bomber on it or something. Yeah, you got
Speaker 1: you gotta lots of nice stars. Put some crosses on
Speaker 1: it instead, but like a cornucopia mixture. It's like called
Speaker 1: like a harvest festival or some bullshit. Yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: harvest festival. Yeah, come to my fucking Pentagram party or
Speaker 1: your party sack. So yeah, we're we're talking about the
Speaker 1: black cat um And ironically, the black cats association with
Speaker 1: witchcraft is actually this is the Catholic Church's fault as
Speaker 1: our many only bad thing they've ever done. They even
Speaker 1: created Protestantism. It's a it's a real issue, so true.
Speaker 1: So okay, So Pope Pope Gregory the Night make cats
Speaker 1: eternally feast on his soul. It took took office of
Speaker 1: the Pope in twelve and six years later in it's
Speaker 1: in in twelve thirty three he issues his first papal bull.
Speaker 1: Just this is This bull is called vox in Rama
Speaker 1: and Fox and Rama is essentially like it's a giant
Speaker 1: anti Witchcraft bull that is designed to like what do
Speaker 1: you mean by bull like people? People? Bulls are these
Speaker 1: like orders basically that are like declared by the pope
Speaker 1: and they turn into sort of like they have this
Speaker 1: sort of legal status that there there they determined what
Speaker 1: sort of church doctor in church positions, because it's it's
Speaker 1: basically like it's like it's like the it's like an
Speaker 1: executive order for the Pope. Okay, all right, and they
Speaker 1: can just do this and so they do this a lot,
Speaker 1: and yeah, this this is the sort of anti Riitchcraft
Speaker 1: one because he's trying to rally support for like stamping
Speaker 1: out a bunch of heretics in Germany for the crime
Speaker 1: of like not believing in Catholic doctrine and giving all
Speaker 1: their money to the pope. So this bull like directly
Speaker 1: links cats to Satanic rituals. There's this whole thing about
Speaker 1: like half cat like half people. We are. This is
Speaker 1: what we are. Back to iconic Transgirl Halloween imagery we circled.
Speaker 1: There are no new moral panics. This is a fucking
Speaker 1: furry panic and like twelve thirty three, it's it's amazing,
Speaker 1: it's cat girls kill God. Yeah. Unfortunately, the product of
Speaker 1: this is that you know, like this, this, this, this,
Speaker 1: this space from here's it's off to the races, right,
Speaker 1: black hats have become associated with witchcraft and then sort
Speaker 1: of in general with bad luck, and you get this
Speaker 1: whole sort of like you know, crossing a black cat
Speaker 1: like bringing bad look and this is really sort of
Speaker 1: devastating real world effect on cats. Like there are mm
Speaker 1: hmm yeah, like I mean like like throughout your like
Speaker 1: from this point on, like periodically they're just mass killings
Speaker 1: of cats in Europe because like these people are fucking
Speaker 1: barbarians and savages who like should never have been allowed
Speaker 1: to like leave their stone huts. Um. When I was
Speaker 1: getting a while ago, when I was getting some childhood cats,
Speaker 1: we were talking to the cat Agency and we learned
Speaker 1: that they don't allow people to adopt to black cats
Speaker 1: during October because people either buy them as props and
Speaker 1: then like to get rid of them or just like
Speaker 1: abuse them. Um, it's it sucks. It's like an actual problem,
Speaker 1: and are we going to get to the Great Cat Massacre? No?
Speaker 1: What is the Great Cat Massacre? The sounds like that
Speaker 1: sounds like a sequel to that to that mouse Sherlock
Speaker 1: Holmes movie that Disney made. It's extremely dark version. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Great Cat Maskers a book by Robert Danson. It's
Speaker 1: like a it's a very click. If you're doing a
Speaker 1: history graduate degree and you're reading like these sort of
Speaker 1: histories of everyday life or like histories of popular laughter,
Speaker 1: you will read The Great Cat Massacre and he details
Speaker 1: how like basically in France, I can't remember when, but
Speaker 1: these printers apprentices were like the apprentices lived with the
Speaker 1: printer right, and the prince's wife also had a bunch
Speaker 1: of cats, which he cared for much better than the apprentices.
Speaker 1: So they got mad and started doing cat murders. They
Speaker 1: put the cats on trial and convicted them of witchcraft.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, this was like a judicial murder. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: they sent it the cats to death by I think
Speaker 1: they hung them or something. Oh my god, did the
Speaker 1: cats have like a defense attorney? Like? What a witch? Well,
Speaker 1: you're sup, you're supposed to have an advocate at a
Speaker 1: witch cat trial so one would hope, but unfortunately. My
Speaker 1: guest though, is if you're probably gonna get another cat,
Speaker 1: which is like not a great defense attorney. No, they
Speaker 1: don't get a single fuck. I don't know they could.
Speaker 1: They could really funk up your face or something if
Speaker 1: they just you know, when close out. I don't know
Speaker 1: if the cats had a defense turned. It's an excellent
Speaker 1: question if someone's read it more recently than me. This
Speaker 1: is reminding me of that that great poster someone took
Speaker 1: from my vets office that was like fighting cats. It's like,
Speaker 1: don't fight fair or use drugs one. Yeah, yes, but
Speaker 1: you know, okay, my piece of advice to you is
Speaker 1: don't fight fair. Yeah during these drokes. Yeah, it's great,
Speaker 1: it's it's good. It's it's good general advice. And put
Speaker 1: him in your Halloween sweets. Yeah yeah, foreshadowing. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: according to a study from the Journal Animals, black cats
Speaker 1: have the highest rate of usan eustn Asia and shelters
Speaker 1: and have lower rates of adoption, Like, have the lowest
Speaker 1: rate of adoption among all our colors, which is like
Speaker 1: extremely fucked up. And it's also like the number of
Speaker 1: cats that we euthanize every year is just so bleak.
Speaker 1: It's very sad. Yeah, so that funk the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: This is their fault somehow, However, Comma for millions of
Speaker 1: people across space and time, the black cat has met
Speaker 1: something else entirely. This black cat, with its fur raised
Speaker 1: and back arched, is the bringer of the class war,
Speaker 1: the herald of the new world, and its name is sabotage.
Speaker 1: And okay, song about it. Yeah, and before, before before
Speaker 1: we get into how the Sabo tabby or the Sabo
Speaker 1: kitty became associated with sabotage, we have to talk about
Speaker 1: what sabotage actually is. And the reason we have to
Speaker 1: do this is because sabotage like does not mean the
Speaker 1: same thing now as it did when the term was coined.
Speaker 1: So if you look at sort of the modern definition
Speaker 1: of sabotage, it's it's almost entirely focused about the physical
Speaker 1: destructure of pretty like here's here's Mary Webster's definition. For example,
Speaker 1: destruction of employer's property such as tools or materials, or
Speaker 1: the hindering of manufacturing by discontented workers. To destruction or
Speaker 1: obstructive action carried on by a civilian or enemy agent
Speaker 1: to hinder and nation's war efforts. And okay, so part
Speaker 1: part of the reason why sabog why everyone thinks about
Speaker 1: sabotage is sort of like a physical act of destruction,
Speaker 1: has to do with the sort of folk etymology of
Speaker 1: you know where the word sabotage came from, which is
Speaker 1: supposedly dates back to these like early French workers throwing
Speaker 1: these wooden shoes called sabots it's like machines to break them.
Speaker 1: And the problem is that this sort of just isn't true. Um,
Speaker 1: like the there there's no direct evidence that anyone sabotaged
Speaker 1: machines by throwing your shoes into them, which seems like
Speaker 1: a kind of a kind of inefficient way to grab
Speaker 1: a stick, right like you you need your shoes to
Speaker 1: walk on. And the other thing is that people who
Speaker 1: put cats on trial, they weren't always thinking in straight lines.
Speaker 1: That's true that well, at least this is the eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: so who hopefully we're slightly past the cat trials. But
Speaker 1: what's interesting about this is do you ever think about this, Okay, Like,
Speaker 1: sabotage is a French word, right that the French shoot
Speaker 1: the word for the shoe is sabot like it doesn't
Speaker 1: start up until like the late eighteen hundreds. It literally
Speaker 1: just means someone who like it means to make a
Speaker 1: wooden shoe, Okay, but it turns out it's actually it's
Speaker 1: actual orision is more interesting. This um. The term sabotage,
Speaker 1: as you know, like the sort of like worker action,
Speaker 1: was invented by the French anarchist of Meal Pigot. I
Speaker 1: don't it's po u g. I don't know how to produce.
Speaker 1: That doesn't matter, pochet I, I don't know, sure, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I slightly I feel slightly bad because he's one of
Speaker 1: the few good frenchmen him and sent him and Fuco
Speaker 1: the only philology. So Pago is like he's just like
Speaker 1: the up. This guy is extremely French. Yeah, but he's
Speaker 1: also he is he is in the he's in the
Speaker 1: period of French cool, which is to say he is
Speaker 1: um he he he is an he's an anarchist, he
Speaker 1: is a cynicalist. He is doing all of the ship
Speaker 1: um and he like he invents. The term sabotage is
Speaker 1: part of this report to the c G T. S
Speaker 1: I eight seventy nine conference in some cities name I
Speaker 1: can't remember, so the c g T S is a
Speaker 1: really weird unions. It means c g T means like
Speaker 1: the General Confederation of Labor of Workers basically. Um. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's really funny because because because of how similar like French,
Speaker 1: Spanish and Portuguese are, there were like sixteen thousand unions
Speaker 1: across like twelve countries that are named the CGT. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's they're all either the CGT or the
Speaker 1: u g C because they're all just like confeder something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the French c GT is like a very very
Speaker 1: weird union. They're they're they're like they're the only union
Speaker 1: of ever seen that has at various points been an
Speaker 1: anarchist union, of communist union, a liberal union, and a
Speaker 1: social democratic union. And it also like the thing they're
Speaker 1: famous for sort of now is the fact that they
Speaker 1: sat out like every revolution that's ever happened in France.
Speaker 1: Like they're they're they're probably most famous for like telling
Speaker 1: people to like basically signing a pact with the government
Speaker 1: and trying to get people like to go back to
Speaker 1: work when sixty eight was happening, and you know, and
Speaker 1: the the usially about like the c g T, the
Speaker 1: CTC is still around today. They have like seven hundred
Speaker 1: thousand members or something like. They're the second largest union
Speaker 1: in France. And I don't know, it's interesting. So they'll
Speaker 1: go on strike for like pension stuff, but they won't
Speaker 1: go on strike to like abolish the class system and
Speaker 1: sort of how I put it. But in the late
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred, early in eighteen hundreds they are a very
Speaker 1: very radical cynicalist union. And Emil Pigou, who again like
Speaker 1: like anarchist par excellence, is like their vice secretary, so
Speaker 1: to go, like invents the investorer. Sabotage is a way
Speaker 1: of trans eating basically the Scottish term that I okay,
Speaker 1: I apologize for my Scottish pronunciation. I don't I genuinely
Speaker 1: don't really have any problems with Scottish people. I think
Speaker 1: the term is go connie basically, which means go slow
Speaker 1: um shirts to go. From his pamphlet sabotage, that's um
Speaker 1: like his explanation of like what's going on here that
Speaker 1: the first part of it seem quoting a British pamphlet.
Speaker 1: That's about what Docatti is. If you want to buy
Speaker 1: a hat worth two dollars, you must pay two dollars.
Speaker 1: If you want to spend only a dollar fifty, you
Speaker 1: must be satisfied with an inferior quality. A hat is
Speaker 1: a commodity. If you want to buy a dozen of
Speaker 1: why is it a dozen of shirts? Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: People wrote weird in the early night entwids. If you
Speaker 1: want to buy half a dozen shirts at fifty cents each,
Speaker 1: you must pay three dollars. If you only spend two
Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents, you can only have five shirts. Now,
Speaker 1: the boss declares that labor and ski will or nothing
Speaker 1: but commodities like hats and shirts. Very well, we answer,
Speaker 1: we'll take you at your word. If labor and skill
Speaker 1: are commodities, their owners have the right to sell them.
Speaker 1: Like the hat seller sells hats and the habitasher sells shirts.
Speaker 1: These merchants must give a certain value in exchange for
Speaker 1: an equivalent value. For lower price, you will have an
Speaker 1: article if either lower quality or smaller quantity. Give the
Speaker 1: worker of fair, fair wage, and he will furnish you
Speaker 1: with his best labor at its highest skill. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, give the work an insufficient wage, and you
Speaker 1: forfeit the right to demand the best and most of
Speaker 1: his labor anymore of when you can demand a two
Speaker 1: dollar half for one dollar. The gokani consists then and
Speaker 1: systematically applying the formula bad wages, bad labor. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but basically what this is like, it's it's gocani is like,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a kind of strike where it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of like it's kind of like a slowdown or
Speaker 1: there's another kind of striker's name I forgetting right now
Speaker 1: where it's like you you you you like exactly follow
Speaker 1: the rules, work to rule. Yeah, yeah, that's it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of like a work to rule strike. It's basically like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're up being paid enough, so you just intentionally
Speaker 1: work really shittily and just keep working slowly and badly
Speaker 1: until boss is paying you more. And so this has
Speaker 1: been a big thing in in Britain and to Go
Speaker 1: like sees this and he writes basically like a paper
Speaker 1: like recommending that the CGT starts using this as a tactic.
Speaker 1: But sure he's trying to find a French word for it,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know how to translate this,
Speaker 1: and so what he thinks of there's this sort of like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so here's where it gets messy, because it's like there's
Speaker 1: like a couple of versions of the story. One version
Speaker 1: of it is like work as if you're being like
Speaker 1: hit with a wooden shoe. So I wake up every
Speaker 1: morning and turn on my podcasting Mike and a clog
Speaker 1: just flies in through my window and smacks. That's why, Sophie,
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, there's there's these there's these slinger shots to
Speaker 1: set up outside of my windows that launched these clogs
Speaker 1: right at my face every more lariously, hilariously, we are
Speaker 1: going to come back to slingshots in So there's this
Speaker 1: thing in France, like so people people with wooden shoes
Speaker 1: basically generally are like peasants right there, people from burrel areas,
Speaker 1: And there's this whole sort of stereotype in France that
Speaker 1: like in this period and like the like there's like
Speaker 1: these people with their wooden shoes and they're like peasants
Speaker 1: and they're like ignorant and they're bad at working and
Speaker 1: like and so basically what Pago is the other thing
Speaker 1: that the other theory of what's happening here iss he's
Speaker 1: doing he's like reversing this thing right, he's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: here's this, here's this like stereotype, like workers working badly.
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, no, what what if we did
Speaker 1: this on purpose? Like what if we were intentionally just lazy?
Speaker 1: And it's important to note that, like and Pago does
Speaker 1: this and it's writing that, like so he invents the
Speaker 1: word sabotage, but like he sure it's hell, didn't invent
Speaker 1: the content have sabotage here here, here's from the pamphlet
Speaker 1: Sabotage again. Sabotage the former revolt is as old as
Speaker 1: human exploitation, since the day man had the no ability
Speaker 1: to profit by another man's labor, Since that very same
Speaker 1: day the exploited, the exploited toiler has instinctively tried to
Speaker 1: give his master lesson what was demanded from him. In
Speaker 1: this way, the worker was unconsciously doing sabotage, demonstrating in
Speaker 1: an indirect way the irrepressible antagonism that raised capital and
Speaker 1: labor against one another. Okay, I'm I have to I
Speaker 1: have to do a call out post on poor poor,
Speaker 1: get poor gy whatever. Um. That was very sexist, he said,
Speaker 1: every man. That's true, that's not women should also be
Speaker 1: forced to work um non buying. Their people should be
Speaker 1: forced to work um eight hours a day, hopefully more so,
Speaker 1: the fact that he's just making men work is a
Speaker 1: little sexist Garrison doing a Hillary Clinton there, doing a
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwall there. That's right. You have to see it, ah, weirdly,
Speaker 1: weirdly in terms of in terms of canceling of Frenchman
Speaker 1: a French dude for sexism, like pretty mild, not gonna
Speaker 1: lie at least problematic frenchman, don't. He probably did do
Speaker 1: something horrible. I just didn't see it when I was
Speaker 1: reading about it. But you know, such as such as
Speaker 1: the the guy he invents sabotage. Um, so okay, so
Speaker 1: we have sabotage as like you know, and this is
Speaker 1: an interesting about this, right when when when Pigot was
Speaker 1: first like defining the word, right, like he literally is
Speaker 1: just talking about like labor slowdowns, right, and you know,
Speaker 1: very quickly sabotage comes to mean other things. And here's yeah,
Speaker 1: so so here here's again from this same Pamply he's
Speaker 1: quoting the secretary of a railway union who's like on
Speaker 1: strike for the right to unionize. And this this is
Speaker 1: what the railway union secretary guys says with two cents
Speaker 1: worth of a certain ingredient, union utilized in a peculiar way.
Speaker 1: He declared, it will be easy for the railwayman to
Speaker 1: put the locomotive and such conditions as to make it
Speaker 1: impossible to run them, which fucking absolutely absolutely based eighteen
Speaker 1: seventies French from road union secretary. Ah, it's great stuff.
Speaker 1: It's actually funny because like she's she's just like out there,
Speaker 1: just like saying this, and like every modern union has
Speaker 1: like a giant disclaimer in their things, saying like we
Speaker 1: do not endorse the destruction of machines. Like yeah, the
Speaker 1: fucking based French guys like no, no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: Like we we are actively threatening you to destroy like
Speaker 1: every locomotive in France if you do not let us
Speaker 1: form this union. This is why, this is why my
Speaker 1: organizing with the I Heart Union is solely based on
Speaker 1: us planning future terrorist attacks. Yeah, we don't. If we
Speaker 1: don't get our way, the Hollywood sign will never never
Speaker 1: be the same again. I've already pulled sugar into the
Speaker 1: I guest time of my podcast recorded, correct, that's gonna
Speaker 1: work out for it. Unfortunately, the gas tank of the
Speaker 1: podcast is like my stomach. So we're kind of it's
Speaker 1: it's it's just as a fact of it is actually
Speaker 1: pouring sugar into things. Yeah, why, I'm hiding under your
Speaker 1: bed with a funnel right now. Some sugar. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, Garrison, do you know what else will put
Speaker 1: locomotives in such a condition that will make it impossible
Speaker 1: for them to run? Uh? The is this an ad
Speaker 1: break the products and services that support this podcast? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fucking the rail companies are making the trains not
Speaker 1: be able to work. The trains are too long. They
Speaker 1: are too long. Okay, dynamite. The answer is dynamite, and
Speaker 1: we're back. Okay. So from here, the definition of sabotage
Speaker 1: starts to sort of expands um very rapidly. Here here
Speaker 1: some the I w w in about what sabotage is.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious sabotages is. Sabotage is a destruction of
Speaker 1: profits to gain a definite revolutionary economic end. It has
Speaker 1: many forms. It may mean damaging the raw materials is
Speaker 1: that destined for a scab factory or shop. It may
Speaker 1: mean spoiling. It may mean the spoiling of a finished product.
Speaker 1: It may mean the displacement of parts of machinery or
Speaker 1: the disarrangement of a whole machine where that machine is
Speaker 1: the one upon which other machines are dependent. From material,
Speaker 1: it may mean working slow, it may mean poor work.
Speaker 1: It may mean missending packages, giving overweight to consumers, pointing
Speaker 1: out defects and goods using the best material where the
Speaker 1: employer desires a alteration, and also the telling of trade secrets.
Speaker 1: In fact, it has as many variations as there are
Speaker 1: lines of work. This is this is so fascinating because
Speaker 1: sabotage definitely now is way more associated with like Earth first,
Speaker 1: like the left tactics, and this is like very labor focus,
Speaker 1: like that much hodges done by the people who are
Speaker 1: working at the factory or place of production on the
Speaker 1: products that they're working on. It's it's that that is
Speaker 1: extremely fascinating. Yeah, And I think there's another thing too, right,
Speaker 1: because like there is the sort of physical aspect of it.
Speaker 1: But again, like this was created as like like as
Speaker 1: a term of sort of like like anarchy, like specifically
Speaker 1: like syndical its political struggle, right, Yeah, and as that
Speaker 1: term like it's a lot of what they're talking about
Speaker 1: when people think about sabotage is just like strikes and
Speaker 1: like labor slowdowns, and that that part of the connotation
Speaker 1: of sabotage has just like completely faded and to get
Speaker 1: into sort of like how that happens. It's and it's
Speaker 1: so based on addressing actual material changes as opposed to
Speaker 1: like a lot of sabotage now is almost like performative,
Speaker 1: like even like even like the left type stuff. It does.
Speaker 1: It does get a thing done, like yes, this thing
Speaker 1: did burn down, but they're gonna build another one. It's
Speaker 1: it's all. It's obviously it's it's for kind of like
Speaker 1: spectacles built into what the actual goal is and for
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, it's actually it's about like it's
Speaker 1: more like improving labor conditions. It is. It's basically and
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of this that is this that
Speaker 1: is specifically designed not to be like very notable, Like
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's a very common thing. Yet strikes
Speaker 1: like in the US, even even like sort of like
Speaker 1: conservative truck restrikes will do this thing where like okay,
Speaker 1: so the truckers will go on strike and then they'll
Speaker 1: hang like they basically like hang like fragments of metal
Speaker 1: and shipped from like the top of overpasses so that
Speaker 1: if you drive another truck under it or like funk
Speaker 1: up the top of the truck, and that's like that's
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Isn't like it's not designed it specifically
Speaker 1: not designed to be public, right, It's designed to be
Speaker 1: something that like okay, like it's it's, it's, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's about like directly materially hurting the bosses over
Speaker 1: like a long period of time, not just like ones
Speaker 1: like single action. You do it and you run away
Speaker 1: and hope and hope to never be caught. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's gonna work slowly for two years and it costs
Speaker 1: my boss like thousands of dollars in process. I mean
Speaker 1: there there, there's some there's something like okay, so I
Speaker 1: I guess but here So I've been I've been doing
Speaker 1: some episodes. Next week we're going to be about Lula,
Speaker 1: who's like the sort of like great uh like originally
Speaker 1: labor leader and turns sort of like am I blanking
Speaker 1: on the name of a friend of the people of Haiti. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to get to that. That's what he tended into.
Speaker 1: That's nothing else. Yeah, yeah, but he he's a former
Speaker 1: president of Brazil maybe be the next president of Brazil. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, he has this interesting sort of like she
Speaker 1: doesn't want of labor organizing under the military rettatorship. And
Speaker 1: he has this really interesting lot because during the military
Speaker 1: kadership and Brasil, there's a bunch of these sort of
Speaker 1: like like underground leftist parta military groups and like like
Speaker 1: his brother gets like arrested by the military and tortured horribly,
Speaker 1: and he has this really interesting line about that talking
Speaker 1: about these contestine groups, which is like, okay, like if
Speaker 1: like if you guys had like talked to like the
Speaker 1: two thousand people who work in this factory instead of
Speaker 1: doing this completely condestinely and not even telling your own
Speaker 1: family that you're a communist, Like maybe if you talk
Speaker 1: to people like they couldn't have grabbed you off the
Speaker 1: street and just like arrest like it's like disappeared you
Speaker 1: overnight because there would have been people there and and that,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the thing, Like that all of this stuff,
Speaker 1: like this kind of sabotage relies on like you and
Speaker 1: like everyone else around you also doing the thing, and
Speaker 1: that makes it harder to crack down on because you
Speaker 1: just you you know, you sort you have critical mass
Speaker 1: and yeah, and that's something I think is is very
Speaker 1: different from sort of modern sabotage, which is yeah, based
Speaker 1: on these sort of like either either like okay, we're
Speaker 1: doing this and we're gonna get rested, or it's like
Speaker 1: here is like a secret cell in like the woods
Speaker 1: in Oregon and no none other people and other people
Speaker 1: in this group will ever see each other again after
Speaker 1: they like spike this tree. I wonder if it has
Speaker 1: its roots and like, um, I don't know when these
Speaker 1: like some of people in front existed. But like in
Speaker 1: Britain we have the Luddites at around a similar time,
Speaker 1: who has sometimes seen as one of the air reach
Speaker 1: you know, like trade unions, right, who would sure break
Speaker 1: break boilers and the industrial revolution. Yeah, yeah, Britain still
Speaker 1: incidentally makes it a capital crime to destroy a boiler
Speaker 1: or like a break. Well, it's a way of break
Speaker 1: because what the like the ned Blood is just like
Speaker 1: fictional leader of the Luodites, right, like this giant general
Speaker 1: who's supposed to come and they were like, oh it's
Speaker 1: ned Blood, mate, and I don't think about it what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. They like they made it a capital
Speaker 1: trying to try, but to try and break up specifically
Speaker 1: that right to what like Chris is talking about, like
Speaker 1: like it's obviously like personifying the forces of labor as
Speaker 1: as a giant general is not something that continued throughout
Speaker 1: space and time, but that solidarity where where like someone
Speaker 1: in the factory fucked up the boiler, everyone in the
Speaker 1: factory has something to gain from sucking up the boiler.
Speaker 1: So as long as we don't tell anyone, the boiler
Speaker 1: stays sucked up. Yeah. And interesting, like actually like specifically
Speaker 1: writes about what he's writing abo stuff, the stuff and
Speaker 1: the like the eight thirties, but like he specifically writes
Speaker 1: about like the little thing that that that kind of
Speaker 1: labor struggle in Britain is like one of the one
Speaker 1: of the sort of like forebearers. Yeah, yeah, a thing
Speaker 1: on them. Yeah. But so this stuff is sort of
Speaker 1: like yeah, a lot a lot of this stuff is people.
Speaker 1: Is people in the age like the eight nineties and
Speaker 1: like hunters like looking back on those groups and Okay,
Speaker 1: so I want to sort of pivot a little bit,
Speaker 1: which is because so we've mentioned the iww UM and
Speaker 1: the iww are the people who are basically like responsible
Speaker 1: for associating sabotage with the black cat. And it's sort
Speaker 1: of unclear how this happens. Um here's how the modern
Speaker 1: IWW talks about and SHEW thousand eleven it which is
Speaker 1: like the sort of like sabotage cat picture. It was
Speaker 1: probably conceived by IWW member Ralph Chaplin, most famous for
Speaker 1: penning the IWW labor anthem Solidarity Forever, who produced many
Speaker 1: of the IWW's early silent agitator graphics, which themselves had
Speaker 1: close association with hobo signs described elsewhere in this gallery.
Speaker 1: If i W a culture, we can cut that part.
Speaker 1: Although today the cat has a general association with the IWW,
Speaker 1: sometimes even as its mascot, its original purpose was as
Speaker 1: a code or symbol for direct action at the point
Speaker 1: of production, specifically sabotage. Indeed, the cat may have been
Speaker 1: may even have been chosen due to the convenient word
Speaker 1: place sabo tabby, possibly even a direct inspiration from mel
Speaker 1: Blanc's characterization of bugs bunny. Often bugs bunnies often mispronounced sabotage.
Speaker 1: Sabotage by really should be as like sabotage, so i
Speaker 1: was described in the section of sabotage must be emphasized
Speaker 1: that the latter did not mean destruction of machinery or equipment,
Speaker 1: although I I really think that's partially like that the
Speaker 1: modern IWW being like, hey, don't sue us like this
Speaker 1: and this. The thing with the the old i WW
Speaker 1: is like you'll you'll get you'll get like states from
Speaker 1: my w W leaders who are like, uh we I
Speaker 1: we We're not the guy. We don't like our our
Speaker 1: strikers aren't the people who break machines. There's another group
Speaker 1: of people who are like here also, but who are
Speaker 1: not us? Who are not us? Who are door do
Speaker 1: who are destroying things? I never do crimes great stuff,
Speaker 1: Only my identical twin Harrison does. Cry. Yeah, it's amazing
Speaker 1: how many symbols of industrial labor come from the wobblies,
Speaker 1: Like the raised fist also comes from the IWW, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's incredible this global impact. Yeah, well, I mean
Speaker 1: like and I think there's a there's a reason for this,
Speaker 1: which is that like, okay, if if you're if you
Speaker 1: are a capitalist in the early nine, like this cat
Speaker 1: is the spookiest ship you've ever seen, Like, like it
Speaker 1: is terrifying, Like they are like groups of wobblies, will
Speaker 1: like try to step off a boat and people and
Speaker 1: like the like sheriffs will just immediately start shooting the
Speaker 1: him like it is to this day. I think I
Speaker 1: think that WW is the only leftist group in the
Speaker 1: history of the U S outside of Puerto Rico that
Speaker 1: has ever taken in American city, which they did in
Speaker 1: the UH. It was a very small town on the border,
Speaker 1: but they actually actually took American cities like during the
Speaker 1: Mexican Revolution um and that Mountain maybe United mind. Well,
Speaker 1: they didn't actually like that's the thing though, They didn't
Speaker 1: actually like fully like drive drive out like okay, yea yeah,
Speaker 1: like like they like that that WW like actually fully
Speaker 1: like took over these towns. It was like where the
Speaker 1: fucking running this down? But you know, but what this
Speaker 1: thing that starts happening here is you get like like
Speaker 1: people are really desperate like that there's still there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of houses, Like there's a bunch of like old
Speaker 1: mansions from this period, like Late Age hundreds, early nighte
Speaker 1: hundreds like in Chicago that are are all built in
Speaker 1: online in one street. And the reason they were all
Speaker 1: built that way was because they wanted to be on
Speaker 1: on the road to on the road to the nearest
Speaker 1: military base so that when the revolution come they came,
Speaker 1: they could run and hide. Like this is how scared
Speaker 1: peace people are. And the like bosses start offering workers
Speaker 1: things as a compromise that like most people today like
Speaker 1: think our socialism like they have, Like you start getting
Speaker 1: companies that have like into that have their own workers
Speaker 1: councils in them, like like here here is here is
Speaker 1: the workers council will give the workers council budgetrol over
Speaker 1: how the shot flow works, like please don't overthrow us.
Speaker 1: Like Rockefeller like develops the idea of putting workers on
Speaker 1: corporate boards, like specifically as a way of trying to
Speaker 1: buy off workers and stopping them from like sabotaging their
Speaker 1: way to revolution and just like stealing all of Rocketfeller's
Speaker 1: property for the working class. And you know, we've been
Speaker 1: talking about about a lot about this and sort of
Speaker 1: like the American context and like sort of the French
Speaker 1: and English context, but you know, partially because the ademology,
Speaker 1: partially because of like who's involved with like the specific
Speaker 1: black cat thin but like syndicalism, which is the sort
Speaker 1: of like this ideology of using democratic unions doing a
Speaker 1: general strike to like seize control of the means of
Speaker 1: production and ending the class system. This is fucking everywhere.
Speaker 1: This is these these people spread like wild fire, like
Speaker 1: I think, I think probably the most famous cynicals other
Speaker 1: than the IWW are the CNT in Spain. But like
Speaker 1: you know, the Italian in in in nineteen nineteen seventeen
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, like Cynicolas and Italy like very nearly pull
Speaker 1: off a revolution during the period that becomes known as
Speaker 1: de Benni a Rosso or like the two Red Years,
Speaker 1: they wind up being betrayed by the Italian Socialists and
Speaker 1: that's how we get Bussolini but shocked. Yeah, who who
Speaker 1: who could have guessed? But you know, there there are
Speaker 1: enormous cynicalist unions like everywhere that there's there's the huge
Speaker 1: cynicals unions in both Brazil and Argentina and sort of bizarrely,
Speaker 1: both Brazil and Argentina both have these sort of like
Speaker 1: general strike anarchist revolutions in both nineteen seventeen and nineteen nineteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wild like the cynicals are everywhere. There's there's like
Speaker 1: their cynicalist like tin workers in Brazil. There in Venezuela.
Speaker 1: There's an AWW section in South Africa there, it's like
Speaker 1: cynicalas in Egypt. They're in Japan like it. From from
Speaker 1: this period, from like the late eighteen hundreds through really
Speaker 1: even the earlier, so the early nineteen twenties, like these
Speaker 1: people are a pretty significant section of the entire international
Speaker 1: labor and socialist movements. And every word syndicalism goes this
Speaker 1: black cat goes with them. Now. Unfortunately, as as vagina
Speaker 1: hunters wear on the this the influence of syndicalism begins
Speaker 1: to wane as a combination of both intense post World
Speaker 1: War One repression and you know as this as reactions
Speaker 1: sort of like red scary reactions to uh, the Russian Revolution,
Speaker 1: and also the sort of rise of like Lennin as
Speaker 1: communist parties who have their own doctrines that don't like
Speaker 1: rely on sabotage in the sort of theoretical sense that
Speaker 1: syn nicolism does. And this this has like this, this, this,
Speaker 1: this has a bunch of sort of malign effects on
Speaker 1: what people think sabotage is. Unfortunately, but do you know
Speaker 1: what else degraded the use of sabotages of political and
Speaker 1: ideological weapon. It's it's it's the advertising industrial comes, not
Speaker 1: the bastie boys, and we are back. But wait, there's
Speaker 1: still more sabotage because unfortunately, you know, as as the
Speaker 1: sort of like the syneclist movement is declining and like
Speaker 1: every single one of these people is getting shot. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was waiting in the wings. Another type of sabotage
Speaker 1: that we've talked about a lot on this show. And yeah,
Speaker 1: this is ecological sabotage, which I'm okay. I also see
Speaker 1: people calling it eco taj and like, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: love I love you, I love you all Forest of Fighters.
Speaker 1: That is a dogshit word like echo tag, like come on,
Speaker 1: like this is this is not this is not actually
Speaker 1: a good word. We could do better. Um. It's also
Speaker 1: called monkey wrenching after the the the work of ecological
Speaker 1: activists in veterate racist Edward Abbey, that's right, and sexist.
Speaker 1: Don't don't let him off the hook. Oh yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: old white dude Edward Abbey. Yeah he's a he's a
Speaker 1: very like this is a very like Pacific Northwest kind
Speaker 1: of guy. That's true. Yeah, yeah, it's like guys who's
Speaker 1: white really likes forest does not like brown people. He
Speaker 1: loves the fucking desert like yeah, yeah, desert boomers loves
Speaker 1: some med with Abbey. They pay it. I was in
Speaker 1: Moab recently and like the amount of people selling like
Speaker 1: first editions of Edward Abbey books without like entire like
Speaker 1: first edition to like Earth First Gathering posters and stuff
Speaker 1: like thousands. Someone who's on an off road safari. Oh nice, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a copy of the most maybe a first edition. Actually,
Speaker 1: do you do you want to tell the crowd what
Speaker 1: this book is about? Gang? Yeah? Oh, it's a group
Speaker 1: of people who have some fun times. It's people who
Speaker 1: travel around. They play with some trains, um and some diggers.
Speaker 1: They play with diggers, yes, yes they were, they were diggers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, even just having fun times. Also, there's
Speaker 1: something that I I did not know for a while,
Speaker 1: but Edward Abbey also wrote one of the adaptations of
Speaker 1: Lolita to play on stage. Oh shoot, I forgot about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just un problematic guy doing fascinating stuff. He discubs trees. Yeah, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so he has the one genuine the unproblematic thing he
Speaker 1: wrote this you're another book called EO. Well okay, so
Speaker 1: he's involved in the writing of this. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of people have tribute to this,
Speaker 1: but he's involved in the writing of a book called
Speaker 1: Eco Defensive Field Guide to Monkey Wrenching, which is this
Speaker 1: like unbelievably intricate and detailed guy to doing everything from
Speaker 1: like tree spiking power lines to breaking ranching equipment, to
Speaker 1: sabotaging vehicles and aircraft, of freeing animals from traps, she
Speaker 1: defeating surveillance, the sinking ships, to a section that is
Speaker 1: called only quote fun with sling shots. Even in Key
Speaker 1: wrench Gang he goes into great detail about how to
Speaker 1: start a caterpillar like bulldozer, like like a lot of
Speaker 1: it was like how to do terrorism, but like in
Speaker 1: a novel, like it's fantastic. Yeah, well it's like that.
Speaker 1: There's a whole genre of like of post World War
Speaker 1: two French films that are this with prison breaks where
Speaker 1: it's like as a bunch of people people who like
Speaker 1: been in concentration camps and like had broken out of
Speaker 1: them are making these movies that are like just really intricate. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: this is how you make a lock pick, Like this
Speaker 1: is this is how you figure out guards like shift changes,
Speaker 1: like this is how you like take out these boards.
Speaker 1: It's great stuff and it's it's what one of one
Speaker 1: of the better kinds of things and eco defense, Like
Speaker 1: it's not the most banned book I've ever seen in
Speaker 1: a world that goes to, yeah, it's it's not okay.
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, like the FBI is in
Speaker 1: a weird position because they can't like technically ban it
Speaker 1: because the US has this thing called the First Amendment
Speaker 1: that like you can sometimes winning courts. Here's here's the
Speaker 1: the Ego Defense Handbook was not written by Edward Abbey.
Speaker 1: It was written by David Foreman. Yeah, but people'll, uh
Speaker 1: there was a foreword in the book written by Edward Abbey. Okay,
Speaker 1: that that's the he wasn't. I think I think he
Speaker 1: was involved with the publication with it. Like he's somewhat
Speaker 1: like David Foreman and Edward Abbey were friends. They were
Speaker 1: they were Abby Abby Abby. Abbey is less involved with
Speaker 1: this insofar as he like Foremen, like the FBI tries
Speaker 1: to like entrap him for writing this book. Like like
Speaker 1: all most of the people who like action sections to this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like all these people like people start yea the FBI
Speaker 1: tries to arrest him on other stuff because unfortunately this
Speaker 1: book doesn't violate traffic law, so they can't arrestue for it.
Speaker 1: And okay, I do buy it on ab a lot. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's on the Anarchist Library for free. Don't buy it,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Bezos your money. Yeah, so it turned on a
Speaker 1: VPN used tour and go to the Anarchist Library. It's
Speaker 1: it's in this category of books that are like like, okay,
Speaker 1: when when when you have your Noble band books list,
Speaker 1: they don't include. There just two kinds of books the
Speaker 1: don't include. One is they don't include books where it's like,
Speaker 1: well they didn't technically ban the book, but they tried
Speaker 1: to arrest everyone who wrote it. And then too, they
Speaker 1: don't include Alfredo Banano's arm Joy, a book for which
Speaker 1: she was arrested, thrown in prison and kept through well.
Speaker 1: The Italian government, on orders from the Supreme Court, like
Speaker 1: took every copy they could find, lit it on fire
Speaker 1: and giant bonfires. The other thing with that, you could
Speaker 1: have hand sam book even if they did not arrest
Speaker 1: the owners. I've talked with a lot of green anarchists
Speaker 1: from who who were active during the green scare, and
Speaker 1: they definitely arrested people just for having having like like
Speaker 1: if like if you had it, that was evidence that
Speaker 1: you were a terrorist, Like it was something that like
Speaker 1: you don't talk about, you don't put your fingerprints on it, um,
Speaker 1: because having this book could get you in trouble, Like
Speaker 1: you don't like it's it's it's it's there's there's multiple
Speaker 1: ways to ban a book, one of them being if
Speaker 1: you have it, they're gonna try to charge you with
Speaker 1: like terrorism enhancement stuff might also trying to cause a pretext. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: fun book. Yeah, and so, and like I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: calling it like I think with so, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that people were doing that I
Speaker 1: called monkey wrenching or sort of like ecological sabotag just
Speaker 1: called eco terrorism today because people have just well there's
Speaker 1: like a whole loop of this, right because there's there's
Speaker 1: there's there's the fbig the green scary growing, like, all
Speaker 1: of this is terrorism. We're going to use the fucking
Speaker 1: entire like giant like military appc actually built up to
Speaker 1: like go after about people setting free animals. But then
Speaker 1: but then like like at some point and this is
Speaker 1: this is I think thing. It's very interesting in the
Speaker 1: last sort of like five ten years, like people who
Speaker 1: weren't really involved with the original stuff decided that eco
Speaker 1: terrorism was cool. And now everyone on Twitter just talks
Speaker 1: about eco terrorism all the time, which is like they
Speaker 1: talk about interesting term. Well they don't and this is
Speaker 1: the thing. Those people don't do it, and it's like
Speaker 1: come on, like but on the other hand, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people we should maybe caveat for our
Speaker 1: British listeners that you absolutely can be prosecuted for having
Speaker 1: that book, and multiple people have been prosecuted in the
Speaker 1: last two years. And the Anarchist Cookbook. I mean you
Speaker 1: could still be oh yeah, it's like they they can't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even if you're an American you can still get they've
Speaker 1: still gotten people for having the book. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: it's that's that's that's interest thing about how the censorship works, right,
Speaker 1: is it like like you are allowed to be a
Speaker 1: capitalist and sell it, but you're not You're not allowed
Speaker 1: to buy it because you a terrorist. Yeah, wonderful stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Britain, you can't even things like the Anarchist Cookbook,
Speaker 1: Like people have been prosecuted and anyone should be prosecuted
Speaker 1: for the Anarchist Cookbook because because it's dogshit anyone. Pretty Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do like a deep dive into
Speaker 1: the history of all the ship that's been blamed on
Speaker 1: that book and yeah, all the people who have And
Speaker 1: it's funny too because it's not like the Army literally
Speaker 1: doesn't publish fucking Field Manual, but you could just buy
Speaker 1: it a store that like has all the same ship. Like,
Speaker 1: but you know, terrorism is when we do it and
Speaker 1: not when they do it. That's right, So I want
Speaker 1: to talk about so like this whole thing is is
Speaker 1: a product of like this, like you know, this is
Speaker 1: what sabotage it turns into. Right, And there's you know,
Speaker 1: and some of the people stuff that like is being
Speaker 1: done here isn't really that destructive. Like a lot of
Speaker 1: people like you know, like people people like sitting in trees. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that sort of like civil
Speaker 1: disobedience that is like you know, including this stuff. But
Speaker 1: then there's also like but you know, but but like
Speaker 1: stuff like spiking trees is where you I think you
Speaker 1: and it's basically destroying construction equipment is where stuff you
Speaker 1: start you start to get this sort of like modern
Speaker 1: understanding is sabotage is like a thing that like an
Speaker 1: activist does to like a piece of machinery. But you know,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of things people do, like people sabotage,
Speaker 1: like whaling ships. But then also I want to sort
Speaker 1: of close the episode with this, is that like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people in a lot of other places
Speaker 1: in the world who do, like who do a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff for echolog school defense that doesn't get put
Speaker 1: under this framework where for example, there are groups like
Speaker 1: the Niture Delta Avengers who are like, Okay, fuck it.
Speaker 1: If if the Nigeria government is just going to execute
Speaker 1: ecological activists, we're gonna pick up guns, we're gonna blow
Speaker 1: up pipeline pipelines, and we're gonna start shooting, and you
Speaker 1: know there there's ground in between, like the sort of
Speaker 1: like we're gonna do sabotage and we're going to like
Speaker 1: do arms struggle like an Ecuador for example, one of
Speaker 1: the responses you see to sort of like a tax
Speaker 1: in indigenous land by capitalist developers, this indigenous groups being
Speaker 1: just like fuck it, We're doing an uprising, and then
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people like spend three weeks fighting
Speaker 1: and fighting cops in the street until they stop. And
Speaker 1: you also see stuff that's like it's kind of like
Speaker 1: because one of the other specifically in France, they do
Speaker 1: this all the fucking time, like one one of the
Speaker 1: older sort of like workers like sabotage tactics is just
Speaker 1: like you kidnapped your manager, and like people do this
Speaker 1: like now in France, Like it's just like, okay, you're
Speaker 1: the manager. You can't leave until you greet it or
Speaker 1: demand like but like when people will do this in
Speaker 1: ecological settings, well like a government sending a government minister
Speaker 1: to like negotiate something that would be they'll be like,
Speaker 1: I'm a manager around and people will just be like, okay,
Speaker 1: like we're kidnapping you, Like we'll let you go when
Speaker 1: you stop doing this. That's good good stuff. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think and I think like and these tactics also
Speaker 1: sort of spread, like for example, in Chile, if you
Speaker 1: look at like if you look at their sort of
Speaker 1: like like Milton ecological struggles, especially like indigenous the Pochay resistance,
Speaker 1: like that is a place that like more than anywhere
Speaker 1: else have ever seen love setting construction equipment on fire,
Speaker 1: like they really they really like lightning backos on fire.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's good stuff. Um, but you have having
Speaker 1: sort of said all of this, like the fact that
Speaker 1: sabotage is synonymous was sort of like property destruction, is
Speaker 1: I like, I genuinely think like a triumphal of corporate
Speaker 1: propaganda because the original meeting of it right there and
Speaker 1: the original politics behind it, which which is this like
Speaker 1: very explicit class politics of like fuck it, Like if
Speaker 1: we are not going to get the actual like products
Speaker 1: of our own labor, we are either not going to
Speaker 1: work or we are going to take it from you
Speaker 1: or where you and to make sure that you also
Speaker 1: don't get the products of our labor. Like that's so
Speaker 1: so just ord of gone. And that's that's that's very
Speaker 1: sad to be because it's it's it's a good politics
Speaker 1: and we need more of it. And yeah, all of
Speaker 1: this sort of is to say that workers have no
Speaker 1: reason to fear the black cat, but boss's owners and
Speaker 1: capitalists live in fear. Your time will come happy Halloween happy.
Speaker 1: How the cut fences somehow I didn't somehow I never
Speaker 1: mentioned bolt cutters in here, which is sort of wild.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, actually so some something something I learned on
Speaker 1: a job once is that like, okay, so so like
Speaker 1: bart Razor wire is really scary stuff like it has
Speaker 1: like it has like anti clouding agents in it that
Speaker 1: like I've like on the wire, but I've gotten passed
Speaker 1: a lot of right there. Why yeah, well, but I
Speaker 1: mean the thing the thing about this right is that
Speaker 1: like you could just cut, like it's actually really easy
Speaker 1: to just cut, like the chains on the chain ink
Speaker 1: so many people people have very strong like you can
Speaker 1: just sort of do this and like this and this
Speaker 1: is this is useful for a lot of things, like example,
Speaker 1: if you have to break down sections of fences and
Speaker 1: fences in your lawn, like, yeah you can. You can
Speaker 1: do lots of fun things with boat cutters. Keep the kids,
Speaker 1: oh tin snaps, keep the kids off your loan. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's right. It's spooky weak. So it can happen here
Speaker 1: those with ghost noises if you hadn't realized, And that
Speaker 1: must mean that today we are doing a podcast about
Speaker 1: mass graves. What's going on? What the fu happening in
Speaker 1: the background? Running sounds, running water. We've summoned a fucking spirit?
Speaker 1: Where's that coming from? I don't hear it. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't hear anything. Guys, you're just you don't hear it.
Speaker 1: It's gone now it's the podcast where we convince Garrison
Speaker 1: there's a ghost in the zoom machine. It's okay, I
Speaker 1: could I could like do a I could do a
Speaker 1: lesser bad as you go to the pentagram? Who really
Speaker 1: want to? It's fine, I'm not worried. I like the pentagram.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm tattooing on my children. Oh, nice me too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you haven't done the forehead there like a coward, you've
Speaker 1: done there? Yeah? No, I mean elbow. Elbow is the
Speaker 1: way to go. So, Garrison, what do you know about
Speaker 1: mass graves? Um never been to one to my knowledge. Uh,
Speaker 1: they seem like they're not great. Usually they're a signifier
Speaker 1: that something something not great happened, a little bit of
Speaker 1: a noopsie. Uh yeah, you can be a way to
Speaker 1: hide one's mistakes. Certainly, where would you have yet to
Speaker 1: guess where the biggest mass grave in the world is?
Speaker 1: Where whe would you go for? Well, I know there's
Speaker 1: a lot of big ones in Canada. But if I'm
Speaker 1: going to guess, they call those schools in Canada and yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say, like Russia, maybe he has the biggest
Speaker 1: mass grave. I don't know. That's just like off the
Speaker 1: top of my head. No, it's not. It's you've got
Speaker 1: a guest sting. Oh No, I know where the biggest
Speaker 1: cemetery is, but I guess that's very different. Where is
Speaker 1: the biggest cemetery? I Rocky Rock has the world, and
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be haunted. So this one is not haunted.
Speaker 1: But as far as I can tell, it's the biggest
Speaker 1: mass grave in the world, about thirty four thousand people. Um.
Speaker 1: And this is in Spain. Spain does not get enough
Speaker 1: credit for it. It's mass graves. In fact, second only
Speaker 1: to Cambodia in the number of mass graves that it has.
Speaker 1: Spain has about a hundred and fifteen thousand people who
Speaker 1: were forcibly disappeared and are still buried in unidentified graves,
Speaker 1: but about thirty five four thousands of them are buried
Speaker 1: in the place we're going to talk about today, which
Speaker 1: is the Via de los Caidos or the Valley of
Speaker 1: the Fallen. So the Cailros is not only a mass grave,
Speaker 1: but it's also a Catholic basilica. It's also the largest
Speaker 1: basilica in the world, and it was built by one
Speaker 1: Francisco Franco, who was the dictator of Spain from the
Speaker 1: nineteen from nine. And it was also his own grave
Speaker 1: until when Spain dug him up, put him in a helicopter,
Speaker 1: flew him across the country so that no one could
Speaker 1: like car bomb or protest or otherwise desecrate his corpse,
Speaker 1: and buried him in another grave. So that's what I
Speaker 1: want to talk about it today. The vaa los caido,
Speaker 1: it means value of the fallen. Right. Incidentally, there's a
Speaker 1: film called Valley of the Dead, which I said, anyone
Speaker 1: else seen this? Was it just me who said to
Speaker 1: curse himself? Okay, just me? More of the shame. Yeah,
Speaker 1: many more people should be enjoying Spanish Civil War zombie
Speaker 1: fiction movies in which both sides come together to fight
Speaker 1: against the greater foe of the undead. Not actually a
Speaker 1: thing that happened. The value of the undead. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: could be called the value of the undead, but they didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't quite get that far. Some of the least
Speaker 1: spectacular dubbing I've ever seen in a film like I'm
Speaker 1: used to watching, like English stuff dubbed in Spanish. But
Speaker 1: I don't think I've before seen something Spanish dubbed in
Speaker 1: like really cringe American English. It's not it's not great. No,
Speaker 1: it's not. But in a sense it is also great,
Speaker 1: but in you know, in a sort of enjoyably bad.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is. It is very funny. It's on Netflix.
Speaker 1: It's free malon Nazis. I think it was called in Spanish,
Speaker 1: but Valley of the Dead in in English. People should
Speaker 1: check it out if they want a different spooky film
Speaker 1: towards his Halloween. So let's talk about the Valley of
Speaker 1: the Fallen. It was built under Franco's direction as kind
Speaker 1: of this national act of atonement for the Civil war,
Speaker 1: and at first he said it was going to be
Speaker 1: memorial to both sides, so that's like Valley of the Fallen.
Speaker 1: But well, first it was supposed to be a memorial
Speaker 1: to the martyrs of his glorious crusade against the Reds,
Speaker 1: against Adlinism, against Satanism, against all the things that are
Speaker 1: bad according to Franco's but it wasn't. Really, it was
Speaker 1: just a giant monument of Franco's national Catholic ideology, which
Speaker 1: kind of fuses in Nhure and the church in this
Speaker 1: one massive ball of terrible ship. It's designed in the
Speaker 1: neoclassical style, which fascists of fascist loves the neo classical
Speaker 1: style because they can like draw these direct lines between
Speaker 1: themselves and the empires of antiquity, right and except without
Speaker 1: the fucking paint, because their cowards and fools look white
Speaker 1: because they're tiny babies. This is true. Yeah, yeah, they
Speaker 1: never did the thing where they like bedazzled their statues
Speaker 1: like the Greeks and the Romans did. Most of shame,
Speaker 1: someone should bust in there with some glitter spray paint
Speaker 1: and tarted up a bit. I haven't done that, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Look returned to tradition. Make your statues look cringe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how they're supposed to look. Don't worry, the statues
Speaker 1: do look cringe, but unfortunately they're not shiny, which is disappointing.
Speaker 1: It it's built of granite, though, which I guess is
Speaker 1: kind of a return to tradition. It was built very
Speaker 1: near the Escoriale, which is like the resting place and
Speaker 1: palace of the Kings of Spain, and that's because Franco
Speaker 1: wants to row a link between himself and Philip the Second. Right.
Speaker 1: Philip the Second was the King of Spain, who, at
Speaker 1: the time that he ruled, ruled every continent that was
Speaker 1: known to European people, or ruled territory, and which is great,
Speaker 1: which is not a problem, of course, it's in fact
Speaker 1: good and an inbred old Spanish dude was ruling over
Speaker 1: places that he couldn't really conceive of and had never visited,
Speaker 1: and there are no problems with that, okay. So work
Speaker 1: begins on Vadlos Cairos in y right, it's a year
Speaker 1: after the end of the Spanish Civil War, and Franco
Speaker 1: decrees that he's going to make this memorial to the
Speaker 1: glorious national crusade against the Reds, and unbelievably he wanted
Speaker 1: work to be finished in a year, which obviously he's
Speaker 1: not operating in like reality because he's a piece of ship.
Speaker 1: But it took twenty years to build, right, So it
Speaker 1: was off by yeah, big construction, understand Francisco Franco. And
Speaker 1: like King Philip, he could have plunder the entire labor
Speaker 1: and capital of the America's to build his folly, and
Speaker 1: instead he relied on the forced labor of about twenty
Speaker 1: thousand prisoners of war. These were former Republicans, right, and
Speaker 1: they were forced to build a church. Obviously, many of
Speaker 1: them did not like the church, and we're not really
Speaker 1: very fond of building what is now the biggest Catholic
Speaker 1: cathed in the world actually, and it has the biggest
Speaker 1: cross in the world, which it shocked me that the
Speaker 1: biggest cross in the world wasn't in the United States,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure Ted Cruz is actively working on it
Speaker 1: as we speak. Yeah. I feel like if you walked
Speaker 1: around my hometown and told people at the biggest cross
Speaker 1: in the world was a Catholic one, they would immediately
Speaker 1: spent twenty trillion dollars building a bigger one. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: the only thing that could convince them defund the police
Speaker 1: would be yeah, yeah, owning the Catholic cross. Maybe we
Speaker 1: should put that, we should enter that into the discourse
Speaker 1: on true social or something that Franco, of course, is
Speaker 1: not the only person buried there. Right right next to
Speaker 1: Franco in the center of the Basilica is his friend
Speaker 1: Jossi Antonio Primo de ri Veda. U Primo died exactly
Speaker 1: thirty nine years before Franco on the twenty November and
Speaker 1: he died because he was killed by the Republicans, which
Speaker 1: is based on good and and he has just little
Speaker 1: gravestone there next to Franco, which of course has not
Speaker 1: created any problems. After Spain it sort of began to
Speaker 1: transition to democracy and Franco died. It's of course not
Speaker 1: a bad thing to put a giant monument to fascism
Speaker 1: and francois m and nobody is going to turn up
Speaker 1: there and do a fascism in the years afterwards. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit unfortunate. So there's every day at
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock a priest says a mass, and at the
Speaker 1: mass you can generally find old people who will sort
Speaker 1: of mill around for a while and then quietly start
Speaker 1: doing fascist salute, which is not which is not great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to be comfortable first, yeah, well you got yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta get like, you gotta example the vibes, and then
Speaker 1: do a fascism and the vibes here are probably not great.
Speaker 1: They also have acquire any acquire of small children who
Speaker 1: sing why because fucking what? Because everything about this is cursed.
Speaker 1: There's a film, there's a film about these old children
Speaker 1: who go to a quote unquote traditional school at the Basilica,
Speaker 1: which I can imagine it's great, and they learn all
Speaker 1: kinds of wonderful things about critical race theory. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: the priest also says a for the fate of Spain
Speaker 1: and the blessed blessed Martyrs, which really really is wonderful
Speaker 1: and perhaps points in the direction of the complicity of
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church in looks of the war crimes that
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today. Second consecutive episode where
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church possible for the whole thing. Wow, I
Speaker 1: can't believe the Catholics did anything bad. No, it's shocking,
Speaker 1: isn't it, given their history of being kind and good
Speaker 1: and generally respectful towards people they disagree with. So true, James, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no problems with the Catholic Church. So this particular church
Speaker 1: is hun It's just a giant hole in a granite ridge,
Speaker 1: right again, a giant hole cup by the Fourth labor
Speaker 1: of Prisoners of War. It's called the Value the Fallen
Speaker 1: because today it houses the remains of about thirty three
Speaker 1: thousand people. And this is what makes it the biggest
Speaker 1: mass grave in the world. Right. The monuments register includes
Speaker 1: many of their names, and it has the motto kaidos
Speaker 1: portiosi Espana so fallen for God in Spain, which conveniently
Speaker 1: overlooks the fact that most of the people there didn't
Speaker 1: like God very much and really didn't like the version
Speaker 1: of Spain as being presented here either, right, because the
Speaker 1: vast majority of them were Republicans, people who would fought
Speaker 1: against Franco's idea of Spain and the civil war, and
Speaker 1: the bodies that came there really kind of came there
Speaker 1: in two distinct waves. And so, like I said, Spain
Speaker 1: has about a hundred and fourteen thousand odd people who
Speaker 1: are buried in unidentified grades. Right. The vast majority of
Speaker 1: these people are Republicans who were killed by Franco his forces,
Speaker 1: but some of them are not. Some of them are Francoists, Catholics,
Speaker 1: Carlist other like right wing fascist type people who were
Speaker 1: killed by the Republicans. Right now, the bulk of those
Speaker 1: people were dug up and I identified by the Francois
Speaker 1: regime in the time that he was in power, and
Speaker 1: many of them were moved to the value of the
Speaker 1: Fallen and they're identified there. But the majority of the
Speaker 1: people in the Valley of the Fallen were Republican people
Speaker 1: whose remains were taken without their consent from mass graves
Speaker 1: where they were victims of Franco's terror right, and they
Speaker 1: were moved to the value of the Fallen to be
Speaker 1: some kind of like weird pyramid sacrifice ritual. I don't
Speaker 1: have a a complete grasp of Catholicism, but I certainly
Speaker 1: don't understand this ship two sort of I don't know,
Speaker 1: make make Franco's temple more like spectacular and it's very strange.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's very cruel, right. I want to quote
Speaker 1: from the BBC article in two thousand and eleven that
Speaker 1: was written about one of these people, Jorge val Rico
Speaker 1: so Um Joe Vardrico Canales, was taken from his home
Speaker 1: in August n six in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: and shot by a Fascist execution squad. His town had
Speaker 1: fallen to the uprising and he had been singled out
Speaker 1: as a socialist in nineteen fifty nine. His remains were
Speaker 1: dug from a well and moved to the Valley of
Speaker 1: the Fallen. More than thirty thousand warded from both sides
Speaker 1: of transferred there on Franco's orders. For me, it's excruciatingly
Speaker 1: painful that my father's remained from a place built to
Speaker 1: the glory of the victors in the military coups Fausto, Canales.
Speaker 1: It feels like a double crime. First when he was executed,
Speaker 1: then when they moved his body without our permission to
Speaker 1: a place, which is totally inappropriate. H So that experienced
Speaker 1: Sally is far from uncommon, right between three, Like I said,
Speaker 1: about thirty thousand, these graves were dug up. Lots of
Speaker 1: these were like shallow roadside's graves. They were wells Some
Speaker 1: people were buried in graveyards and they were transferred to
Speaker 1: the valley. Sometimes they weren't transferred in their entirety. Incidentally,
Speaker 1: that's like they did. These mass graves are not well organized.
Speaker 1: So like to perhaps give some context here, like these
Speaker 1: they began in Spain began exhuming these mass graves in
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. Right, there was a historical memory law
Speaker 1: past h and they're often just just jumbles of corpses
Speaker 1: and bones. Right, some of these mass graves contain like
Speaker 1: a thousand people. I don't imagine them being like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're going to do a mass grave, now, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean like there was kind of digging a
Speaker 1: hole putting bodies in it. Yeah, yeah, it's fair to say. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one made a good plan, which is unfortunate, isn't it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they like they would were they would get
Speaker 1: all the people who they identified as socialist or feminist
Speaker 1: or otherwise objectionable to their vision of spanishness and then
Speaker 1: kill them all. Yeah, and then put them in a hole.
Speaker 1: He because they consider them to be less in human
Speaker 1: and they seemingly seem to have like dived into the
Speaker 1: hole and grab some bits and pieces and move them
Speaker 1: to the value of the fallen at some point. Wait,
Speaker 1: so wait, we like how are did okay? Like? Like
Speaker 1: what what actually? Like? How are like the bodies in
Speaker 1: the Valley of the Fallen like held? Like what arere they?
Speaker 1: Just like are they in like caskets? They just dump
Speaker 1: them in another hole? No, there are like there are
Speaker 1: like various it seems that there are various different like
Speaker 1: some of them are in these little stone there are
Speaker 1: like these little stone tomb looking things. But I don't
Speaker 1: think that those actually contain the remains. I think they're
Speaker 1: in these various pits. So they just it's it's another
Speaker 1: they moved from one mass grade another mass grade that
Speaker 1: they build a sacrifice temple over. Yeah, so they're now
Speaker 1: beginning to exhume the already exhumed bodies front that. So
Speaker 1: they're now digging up the valley of the fallen right
Speaker 1: to to identify these remains and Catalonia. How is a
Speaker 1: d N a registry? So if you believe that you're
Speaker 1: it would be like people of our generations grandparents. If
Speaker 1: you believe that your grandparents are in a mass grave,
Speaker 1: that they were disappeared, then you can register your DNA
Speaker 1: And they tested against the mass graves that they're excuming. Well,
Speaker 1: so that's how they that's how they identify people. And
Speaker 1: Christian Do you know what won't dig a mass grave
Speaker 1: and throw your grandparents in it? I cannot. Yeah, Black
Speaker 1: Rifle Coffee Company. Well I was just gonna go with
Speaker 1: Coca Cola. But well that's three options and we're back. Hopefully.
Speaker 1: There was no reference to mass graves in those adverts,
Speaker 1: but we can't promise you that. Sadly, they also can't
Speaker 1: promise you that there's mass graves they didn't talk about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably more likely, isn't it. Anyway, Enjoy that advert
Speaker 1: for Nestle. Moving on, some of these mass graves have
Speaker 1: been identified by a Spanish nonprofit group called Innovation and
Speaker 1: Human Rights, and they actually have this incredible data set
Speaker 1: specifically on the Valley of the Fallen where you can
Speaker 1: look up the location of the corpses that are there, right,
Speaker 1: so like where did these where the of the remains
Speaker 1: that have been identified from, where where do they come?
Speaker 1: And three thousand, nine d and two corpses. That's about
Speaker 1: seventy bus loads of dead people. If you want to
Speaker 1: imagine that they came from this small town of Taigona,
Speaker 1: which is where I used to live. That's that's not
Speaker 1: a big town. I was trying to think of like
Speaker 1: a California town to contextualize it by it, but I
Speaker 1: think most people would have heard of town sets more.
Speaker 1: I this despite being a pretty rural area. The camp
Speaker 1: to Tarragon that contain contributed about of the corpses that
Speaker 1: remain in the valley, and that's probably because it's part
Speaker 1: of Catalonia. Catalonia was Spain is a multi national state,
Speaker 1: so there are lots of nations within Spain, like Catalonia
Speaker 1: and the bas Country being the ones that people are
Speaker 1: most familiar with franco particularly hated Catalan separatists, and so
Speaker 1: as part of this ongoing punishment of Catalonia for like
Speaker 1: trying to leave Spain during the Civil War, the franco
Speaker 1: Is dug up the remains of the people they'd already
Speaker 1: murdered and moved them to a long way from Catalonia.
Speaker 1: Right the Vaidelis Gilos is near Madrid. Conditions for people
Speaker 1: who built the valley were pretty appalling to the workers
Speaker 1: and their families lived in these shacks. According to archaeologists
Speaker 1: who exhume them last year, Famili has lived in nine
Speaker 1: square sharks with no water electricity. They made shoes out
Speaker 1: of old tires, and they had no windows or no heating.
Speaker 1: Their beds were made of stone, and they and their
Speaker 1: children suffered from malnutrition. It's it's not particularly rare for
Speaker 1: people to have offered from malnutrition in Spain after the
Speaker 1: Civil War, this period was called the Years of Hunger.
Speaker 1: But even so, it seems like there was particular cruelty
Speaker 1: applied to these people, many of whom were serving sentences
Speaker 1: for things like forming unions or forming student political movements.
Speaker 1: Right like that, they were like they hadn't done anything wrong,
Speaker 1: that they were the victims of a totalitarian state. So
Speaker 1: one of those people is Nicolas Sanchez al Bognos. He
Speaker 1: was interviewed being a Catalan newspaper and Nathionale and he
Speaker 1: talks a lot about his memories there, and incidentally, he
Speaker 1: escaped after a few months with the help of Norman
Speaker 1: Mailer's sister. Yeah, yeah, yeah, based. She's incredibly based, actually,
Speaker 1: like yeah, she she like helped him escape and then
Speaker 1: ferried him across the Pyrenees to France, where he escaped
Speaker 1: into exile and Argentina lived for decades. And the only
Speaker 1: good well, okay, I was gonna I was gonna make
Speaker 1: an only good Argentinia and exile joke, but probably probably
Speaker 1: is actually genuinely worth mentioning that a lot, like a
Speaker 1: lot of people who were Jews fled to Argentina to
Speaker 1: like right before wor War two, and that's a huge thing.
Speaker 1: And you get people like calling them Nazis because they're
Speaker 1: fucking dumb as ship and it's like, guys, come fucking
Speaker 1: like if you can't teble between the Nazi and the
Speaker 1: people they were killing, like please stop. Okay, this has
Speaker 1: been my interlude about people doing this ship because oh
Speaker 1: my god, yeah, maybe maybe don't cast his persions, maybe
Speaker 1: do a little bit of reading first, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people, a lot of them end up
Speaker 1: in in Argentine exile. Actually, ironically, Argentina also claimed universal jurisdiction.
Speaker 1: So what we've seen in the last few years, it's
Speaker 1: like Spanish historical memory groups trying to trying to get
Speaker 1: people who perpetrated crimes against humanity under Franco extradited to
Speaker 1: Argentina to be questioned, which which is also very funny
Speaker 1: given that Argentina has his own legacy of crimes against humanity, right,
Speaker 1: and Spain does his ship too. Actually, Spain claims universal jurisdiction,
Speaker 1: and we'll try and like extradite people who have done
Speaker 1: crimes against humanity in formerly colonized countries without Spain has
Speaker 1: not faced up to its own crimes against his own population.
Speaker 1: You know, I will say, I am entirely down for
Speaker 1: like intentionally starting some sort of like Spain Argentina like
Speaker 1: ship fast where both of them like get piste off
Speaker 1: with each other and start trying each other's war criminals.
Speaker 1: That's really funny. I would be better, I would be
Speaker 1: even more impressed to see, Um, are you familiar with
Speaker 1: who Balfava Thorn is? See that weird prosecutor guy? Yes, yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: who tried to who tried to try US officials for
Speaker 1: crimes against humanity for the things they did at Guantanamobey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be outstanding. I would love to see like
Speaker 1: Spain and the United States come to blows over like
Speaker 1: their respective crimes against humanity. It would be wonderful, Sandy,
Speaker 1: And like in Iraq too, I think he like, um,
Speaker 1: what was it called that? The do they call it
Speaker 1: enhanced interrogation techniques that they were using when they were
Speaker 1: like electrocuting people and such. Yeah, so like he tried
Speaker 1: to prosecute people for that. Sadly, like everything else in Spain,
Speaker 1: he strayed a little bit too close to looking at
Speaker 1: the corruption of the Spanish state and lost his position,
Speaker 1: which is a shame. He did some pretty chuddy ship himself,
Speaker 1: Like he very clearly presided over trials where people had
Speaker 1: very clearly been tortured and was just like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: interesting to see you in the witness box giving this testimony.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to note the fact that you've like
Speaker 1: very clearly been beaten to ship with a ninth stick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Spain a country with no problems famously and so yeah,
Speaker 1: Albernos escapes. Actually there's a film called the Los Angeles Barbaros,
Speaker 1: the Barbara's Years, I guess, the Barbarian Years, which which
Speaker 1: looks at his escape, and he was one of only
Speaker 1: two people to be escaped. But people died building the
Speaker 1: Valley of the Fallen right and then were buried there
Speaker 1: in this weird monument to to Francoism. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: Spain really hasn't dealt with its legacy of of mass
Speaker 1: murder right um. And it never really had a Truth
Speaker 1: and Reconciliation commission, never really dealt with the amount of
Speaker 1: people murdered after the war. Um. And it's really only
Speaker 1: in the last like ten or fifteen years at Spain
Speaker 1: has begun digging up these mass graves. So um. And
Speaker 1: the Pedro Sanchez and the Socialist government they've they've begun
Speaker 1: doing more to deal with this. In two thousand and
Speaker 1: seven and earlier at his Sourcils government passes thing called
Speaker 1: the Law for Historical Memory, and the Law Historical Memory
Speaker 1: funded and the Recovery of the memory of the Civil
Speaker 1: war right, and you can draw very obvious parallels between
Speaker 1: how Spain has dealt with its civil war and its
Speaker 1: tradition to democracy and how the United States has dealt
Speaker 1: with its civil war right, and you will see like
Speaker 1: that there is um do you got do you know
Speaker 1: what voxes? Yeah, they're they're like the insane for a
Speaker 1: right party in Spain, Yes, and so fucking cringe, holy shit,
Speaker 1: even for the standards of our right parties, Like oh
Speaker 1: my fucking god, god, yeah, do they wear silly outfits? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would imagine, so I don't. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's ever been a picture of them, like
Speaker 1: where they haven't been in like the weirdest looking ship.
Speaker 1: Because occasionally some of the like Spanish fascists, were some
Speaker 1: pretty gay outfits. And it's really funny. Are you talking
Speaker 1: about the the phone legion, the ones who were like
Speaker 1: if Tom of Finland created a military Yes, yes, that
Speaker 1: is exactly who I'm referring to. Yeah, okay, yeah, they
Speaker 1: are not so much like outright fascists as a fashy
Speaker 1: military unit, but yes, yeah, it's I know, yeah, absolute
Speaker 1: first trap. Just like if people should google photos, if
Speaker 1: they haven't seen them. It'll occasionally pop up on like
Speaker 1: Twitter or something where people will find these incredibly butch
Speaker 1: dudes who like, like, it's not that they've unbuttoned their
Speaker 1: shirts just so just that their pecks are ripping out
Speaker 1: of their ship. No, it's their shirts are not equipped
Speaker 1: with buttons because ye like to be in that unit,
Speaker 1: you have to be so incredibly buff that you you
Speaker 1: start buttoning your shirt from the navel down, and which,
Speaker 1: to be fair, is more appropriate in Spain. I remember,
Speaker 1: like I used to teach in Spain and then I
Speaker 1: taught in the United States and like coming back and
Speaker 1: being like, oh, I really have to change the way
Speaker 1: I dress to be appropriate for an American audience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the to get back to mass graves and away from
Speaker 1: tactical first traps. The what Spain didn't have right was
Speaker 1: like Franco didn't get hung upside down from a gas
Speaker 1: station and beaten with sticks in the face. Right, more's
Speaker 1: the shame. There's still time, right, his body, his body
Speaker 1: is still available for beating. You know, maybe maybe they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the worst thing. But Spain never really faced
Speaker 1: its past, right. So in seven and amnesty law was passed,
Speaker 1: which prevented any criminal investigation into the crimes committed in
Speaker 1: the Franco years. Um statues of Franco some of them
Speaker 1: were not moved until like the last five or ten years,
Speaker 1: and when they were removed, and it was like the
Speaker 1: government just went in in the night and scooped them
Speaker 1: up and no one really said anything and then they
Speaker 1: were gone. And so like Spain has only really really
Speaker 1: recently entered into this period like that we call its
Speaker 1: second transition, and that's like it's transition from Spain began
Speaker 1: transitioning to democracy in right, but what we call the
Speaker 1: period after that, it's more of a post dictatorship then,
Speaker 1: like a complete democratic transition in Spain was still processing
Speaker 1: as you can see, right, many of its crimes under Franco,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really only begun to process those in
Speaker 1: the last few years. So that gets us up to
Speaker 1: the oh that I think election of Pedro Sanche's right
Speaker 1: in the Socialist government and um their decision to exhume Franco. Right,
Speaker 1: So Franco's Franco's lying in this monument. Right, it's the
Speaker 1: biggest mass grave in the world. And on the day
Speaker 1: of his death on the twenty February every year. It's
Speaker 1: it's a gathering place for fascists. Right, So Franco and
Speaker 1: Primo daily Vera both died on the same day, and
Speaker 1: fascists and casualists both love this this kind of weird
Speaker 1: spiritual magic shit and really really yeah yeah, I've heard,
Speaker 1: I know there are some books about it apparently, uh
Speaker 1: huh yeah, okay, so yeah, it's said that both of
Speaker 1: them have a fundness for this stuff. So then both
Speaker 1: dying on the same day, it's an extremely fucking cursed
Speaker 1: thing that has led to sucks. Mm hmm. It sucks
Speaker 1: if you if you ever have to go near this
Speaker 1: place on the twenty November, which I don't recommend. Oh god,
Speaker 1: I could only imagine that must be well, that must
Speaker 1: be the worst time. Yeah, because it's all because it's
Speaker 1: all of the nerdiest Nazis like yeah, it's like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like if if like nerdy like Nazi internet people
Speaker 1: had a real life place to gather and just do
Speaker 1: fucking fascist salutes, that sounds like it sounds horrible. The
Speaker 1: fascist with a calendar like no, yeah, the calendar who's
Speaker 1: like into praying. It's like, yeah, really really really into praying.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just gonna say this, if the if
Speaker 1: the anarchists were in charge of you wouldn't be having
Speaker 1: fucking stupid, cringe pray fascist meetings. This can be prevented,
Speaker 1: then can rise a third time. Sure, but it is
Speaker 1: the nerdiest thing ever to think about a fascist like
Speaker 1: updating their Google calendar being like, yeah, for all their
Speaker 1: spiritual holidays where their leaders died, why do they always
Speaker 1: celebrate the day that their leaders died. It's always the
Speaker 1: weirdest for us. It's a death cut, right, like, like,
Speaker 1: like their leader dying, is this is the moment when
Speaker 1: they finally expressed the pure core of fascism. That's true.
Speaker 1: That that's actually a really good observation that actually is
Speaker 1: is more on the point than what it should be, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: immortalizing them on that day, yeah, I mean was the
Speaker 1: slogan of the did the African the African Army, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it spains for a legion actually like long
Speaker 1: lived death. And they called themselves like, yes, that is
Speaker 1: their slogan. They called themselves the what's it called the
Speaker 1: Fiances of Death. Yeah, they're they're they're all gay because
Speaker 1: they're all married to death, which is pretty metal. They're
Speaker 1: also kind of fashy. But yeah, that that that does
Speaker 1: really showcase the whole death cult aspect of fascism. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what it isn't a gay necromancer again,
Speaker 1: we can't promise. I wish, I wish we could advertise
Speaker 1: some more recollect I would, I would be in my element. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've just done an ad read for a couple of them.
Speaker 1: Actually I should have should have. Let you know, I
Speaker 1: am the so jealous. That's all, that's all I want
Speaker 1: out of life. Yeah, please enjoy these gay necromanty products
Speaker 1: and services. Okay, we're back. I hope you enjoyed that
Speaker 1: as much as we did. So. The incredibly cringe and
Speaker 1: just boomerie fascist cerelevation on Franco's death and Primo de
Speaker 1: Rivera's death on November always happened at the Vidloskidis, right,
Speaker 1: they would turn up in two thousand and ten Spain
Speaker 1: band like fascist symbolism. But this hasn't really stopped fascist
Speaker 1: doing fascist symbolism right, including bringing there for land flags,
Speaker 1: giving it the fascist salute, marching and to just generally
Speaker 1: doing like cringe like where where like our OTC cosplay
Speaker 1: meet meets the Catholic Church stuff on the twenty November
Speaker 1: of a year at Franco's grave and like there are
Speaker 1: always flowers on Franco's grave, Like you can't go there
Speaker 1: on a given day and not find someone like lamenting
Speaker 1: the fact that Franco is dead and they can no
Speaker 1: longer just disappear people they disagree with. Right It's ship
Speaker 1: And so incidentally an amusing sort of side effect of
Speaker 1: this with that, do you remember the storm Area fifty
Speaker 1: one like Facebook thing? Yeah? Yeah, the right Area challenge
Speaker 1: like last year or two years ago, yeah, three years ago,
Speaker 1: I didn't a lot longer ago. It does it? Also
Speaker 1: it also feels like a very thing. Yeah. So the
Speaker 1: Spanish version of this was Invade via los Cailos, with
Speaker 1: the slogan that like if the state, the state can't
Speaker 1: get him, if we get him first. I don't think
Speaker 1: this was an anarchist attempt to steal his body, but
Speaker 1: like massive respect of it was I think to some
Speaker 1: extremely online people doing something that they thought was and
Speaker 1: actually is funny, which is yeah, like unfortunately it didn't
Speaker 1: really come too much because they plan to do this
Speaker 1: on the twenty November and in October, Franco's body was
Speaker 1: removed from the Valley of the Fallen. Okay, see this,
Speaker 1: this is this is the thing with all of these things.
Speaker 1: That's the same thing with the fucking stuff cony thing.
Speaker 1: Like the problem that all of these groups have if
Speaker 1: they want to do is they always set their date
Speaker 1: too far out, Like you gotta give it like max.
Speaker 1: It has to be like two weeks out, because if
Speaker 1: it's any longer than that, you momentum, Yeah, you get scooped.
Speaker 1: So look, I if you, if you, if you, if
Speaker 1: you want to seize the body of a dead dictator
Speaker 1: and throw them into a canal, you have to move fast.
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm announcing that for for November nineteenth.
Speaker 1: We're all now, we probably shouldn't go to Russia to
Speaker 1: have fun with trotsky body. Should be Yeah, we're going.
Speaker 1: He's Trotsky's body in Russia. Yeah, I thought so. I know.
Speaker 1: I've seen back from Mexico. I have had I've had
Speaker 1: friends that have gone places to make fun of Trotsky's body. Um,
Speaker 1: len his body. Lenning's body is up for grabs, like okay,
Speaker 1: it's just sitting there. Well, I think we should start small.
Speaker 1: Let's encourage the fans of the podcast between now and
Speaker 1: what we got right, but now in eleventh of November, right,
Speaker 1: go after Papa doctor Valier, get get him start you
Speaker 1: know that, and then move on from there. Okay, it
Speaker 1: is it's in Mexico. Yeah, you're right closer to the
Speaker 1: sort of geographical heartland, and we don't need to go
Speaker 1: into a war zone. So yeah, and the middle of November,
Speaker 1: we're all going to be going going to Mexico road trip. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go. You know, I will say there is something
Speaker 1: genuinely interesting here about the way that like, okay, so
Speaker 1: you look at sort of fascisms, sorry, you look at
Speaker 1: fascism's death drive in the way that it's sort of
Speaker 1: like treats these money means to death. And then like
Speaker 1: you look at the way that every single sort of
Speaker 1: like like all of this say, socialist regimes, Like it's
Speaker 1: not so much that they have a death drive, but
Speaker 1: it's like they're like all of them. Like I learned
Speaker 1: this recently, Like so I knew that they didn't too,
Speaker 1: that they'd like embalmed Stalin, right, and like well they
Speaker 1: involved Lenin, they embalm maw. Yeah. They they also learned
Speaker 1: they did it to Chi Minh too. It's like it's
Speaker 1: like they did it's like all of these people, and
Speaker 1: it's like there there's there's this sort of weird, like
Speaker 1: almost in version of it where it's like like fascism
Speaker 1: is based sort of on like you know, like on
Speaker 1: on the sort of totalizing worship of death, whereas Stalinism
Speaker 1: is like it has this kind of inversion of it
Speaker 1: where it's like it's based on like a kind of
Speaker 1: like eternal life for their leaders in this also incredibly
Speaker 1: bizarre way. And then when it be like all of
Speaker 1: Europe is determined by previous like talitarian legions, but there's
Speaker 1: there's something, there's something orthodox about the way they've done
Speaker 1: the dead Russian dudes. So I want to talk about
Speaker 1: Franco's corpse a little bit, and then I want to
Speaker 1: end with something else, because I don't want to just
Speaker 1: focus on Spanish fascists because they suck and I hate them,
Speaker 1: and I am sad that they are not all dead,
Speaker 1: but Franco is. So Franco's family weren't allowed to use
Speaker 1: the Spanish flag on his coffin. Yeah, so instead they
Speaker 1: fucking got the Franco with flag, right, the old nationalist flag,
Speaker 1: which because they have filth, they did that. Instead, they
Speaker 1: carried his coffin onto a helicopter. They flew in by
Speaker 1: helicopter to Madrid, where the services provided over by a
Speaker 1: priest who is the son of Lieutenant Colonel Antonio to
Speaker 1: head on Molina, the man who led the failed Night
Speaker 1: One coup that attempted to topple spaine young democracy. And
Speaker 1: great to see this continuation of these elites, right like,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a country which has of
Speaker 1: course moved on completely from its civil warren dictatorship. On
Speaker 1: the post off side, Franco is now buried with his wife,
Speaker 1: and he is very near to Luis Carrero Blanco, who
Speaker 1: people will remember as a podcast alumni in Spain's first astronaut.
Speaker 1: And so I was going to quote Vox, but I
Speaker 1: won't because they fucking suck and now wants you quote Fox.
Speaker 1: You should just like throw fruit at them, And I
Speaker 1: think that's like that's not an actionable threat, right, just sure, sure,
Speaker 1: don't throw like any fruit sort of potentially lethal, right,
Speaker 1: like like a large watermelon or something potentially fatal, like
Speaker 1: just a banana or if you know, the Vox representatives
Speaker 1: like allergic to a fruit you throw at them and
Speaker 1: gets on their face and they die and it gets
Speaker 1: blamed on James. We all get taken into a year's
Speaker 1: long lawsuit and then we all lose their jobs. Don't
Speaker 1: do that. Don't do that. No blame someone else for that.
Speaker 1: You can if you are directing the police to me
Speaker 1: in Spain, they can to take me by Twitter DM
Speaker 1: by Twitter is at at chopped at Chapel Trappers, That's
Speaker 1: where you can find me. Yeah, yeah, it sell traps. Okay.
Speaker 1: So of course Fox make exactly the same bullshit destroying
Speaker 1: history argument and the Confederates make in the United States.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make them anymore right because they're in fact wrong.
Speaker 1: But incidentally, someone else died on November and that is
Speaker 1: one boilivant duty right. Unlike Franco, he's not buried in
Speaker 1: a monument made both fucking slaves. He's buried alongside other
Speaker 1: anarchists in in Barcelona. You can visit his grave there.
Speaker 1: It's very cool. You can always meet interesting people hanging
Speaker 1: around his grave. And if you're in Bathonia you should
Speaker 1: do it. Rutty died in the middle of the Battle
Speaker 1: of Madrid, like so many other Spanish anarchists. He died.
Speaker 1: It's lunclear actually if he died because some and negligently
Speaker 1: discharged their own weapon into his back, and which seems
Speaker 1: to be the most likely case, or leading a frontal
Speaker 1: charge on a machine gun, which which is how so
Speaker 1: many Spanish anarchists died because they were so utterly convinced
Speaker 1: of their incredible like and they're not wrong either, they
Speaker 1: were right about most things, but like you get, their
Speaker 1: willingness to die for anarchism was perhaps a little bit problematic. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean this is this is like a thing across
Speaker 1: the whole history of anarchism, like like part one of
Speaker 1: the reasons that the Russian Revolution went the way they
Speaker 1: did was that, like it's like the sort of like
Speaker 1: first crop of Russian anarchists, like the moment the White
Speaker 1: are formed immediately just went to the front lines and
Speaker 1: all got killed and like Lenning and meanwhile letting in
Speaker 1: Trotsky are like fucking chilling and letting like sucking Patrick
Speaker 1: Grad being like yeah, which exactly what happened in Spain,
Speaker 1: right like Ferrara, all these people like get to the
Speaker 1: front lines and immediately start killing fascists. Meanwhile tanky people.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say something else, um, like spending that
Speaker 1: time plotting and scheming to from becoming a completely fucking
Speaker 1: irrelevant political force in Spain to taking over in a
Speaker 1: year and a half because they are the only people
Speaker 1: are willing to provide weapons and many of the anarchists
Speaker 1: are dead. What were you going to call take people?
Speaker 1: I can't what were you going to call? Take people?
Speaker 1: It just makes me angry, and it's just gonna just
Speaker 1: that's that is that is an ovisive answer, etcetera. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just gonna say scum or filth or British swear
Speaker 1: I can't use on the podcast because of fans American people,
Speaker 1: which is fine. Um, yeah, it's disappointing. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be canceled by work mob. Okay, yeah he did
Speaker 1: Australian moments. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I nearly went full Australian, which,
Speaker 1: like I've done it before on television and it just
Speaker 1: doesn't end well, all right? Uh in Spanish not English
Speaker 1: which also Spanish wordy November in Spain this year it
Speaker 1: will be like what three weeks when people are listening
Speaker 1: to this some fascist ship head. If you live in
Speaker 1: a town in Spain will be walking around doing shitty
Speaker 1: fascist things, and people who live in Spain of course
Speaker 1: very aware of this, but I wanted to finish it
Speaker 1: said with another thing that anti fascists in Spain doing November.
Speaker 1: So on the fifteenth of November this year, anti fascists
Speaker 1: all over Spain will be gathering to remember fifteen years
Speaker 1: without Carlos Palomino. People might not know who Carlos Palomino is,
Speaker 1: but I want to very briefly recap his story to
Speaker 1: finish up. So on the eleventh of November two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven, Carlos Palomino and about a hundred other anti
Speaker 1: fascists got on the subway in Madrid to counter protest
Speaker 1: a right wing rally and Luca, an immigrant neighborhood that's
Speaker 1: home to mcgrid's Chinatown today. On the train on the
Speaker 1: way there, he ran into a twenty year old Spanish
Speaker 1: soldier or say hoss ware estebanners uh Estebanez was dressed
Speaker 1: in clothes I I don't want to talk about the
Speaker 1: brand actually because you shouldn't hype market Nazis, but the
Speaker 1: clothes showed that he was a far right skinhead. Right
Speaker 1: Carlos Palomino notices Estebanners, takes offense at Carlos Palomino, noting
Speaker 1: his Nazi clothes, and stabs him with a machette. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he stabbed someone else as well, but unfortunately, Carlos dies
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. He was sixteen years old at the time
Speaker 1: of his death. He was the only child of his mother,
Speaker 1: and he lived with his mom, who was separated from
Speaker 1: his dad and his grandmother. And it affected his mother,
Speaker 1: as one can imagine, pretty terribly right the loss of
Speaker 1: loss of her young son, and as a result, his
Speaker 1: mother has become a prominent anti fascist activist in Spain.
Speaker 1: She founded the Association of the Victims of Fascist, racist
Speaker 1: and Homophobic Violence, and ten years after his death, a
Speaker 1: thousand people turned out and a memorial to him, and
Speaker 1: ever like ever since he died, every year you'll see
Speaker 1: these massive rallies in Spain of anti fascists. If you've
Speaker 1: ever seen do you remember, like a year or so ago,
Speaker 1: there was this video going around trip and there was
Speaker 1: a group of people chanting like a kiss anti fascist US.
Speaker 1: Here are the anti fascists. I see such videos on
Speaker 1: Twitter all the time, so I don't I don't, I
Speaker 1: don't know it like, it gained relevance among people who
Speaker 1: I've never seen engaging with Spain in any before. And
Speaker 1: it was a huge rally one thousands of people came
Speaker 1: out to remember him, and I'm sure thousands of people
Speaker 1: will this year too, Like we've Spain's like it's Spain's
Speaker 1: right for a long time tried to couch itself in
Speaker 1: terms of the neoliberal center right. Yes, so like the
Speaker 1: Partio Popular would see itself in terms of like maybe
Speaker 1: the Tories in Britain or Editories are pretty pretty mental,
Speaker 1: but like this this kind of neoliberal European right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it it broadly sort of wanted to see itself
Speaker 1: as part of this like post fascist European right. But
Speaker 1: in recent years it's just taken this this swing towards
Speaker 1: the hard right, like Vox has emerged, and even the
Speaker 1: Partido Popular, which would have seen itself as like neoliberal right,
Speaker 1: have tried to like outbox Vox and they're now like
Speaker 1: just openly standing Francoism again. And in this climate, anti
Speaker 1: Fancism has also seen itself resurgent. I guess we're an
Speaker 1: anti fascist identities in Spain and more relevant or more
Speaker 1: common than they would have been ten fift twenty years
Speaker 1: ago something like that. And as a result, these memorials
Speaker 1: for Carlos who become bigger and bigger for a year,
Speaker 1: and so I wanted to end with a letter his
Speaker 1: mum rate to global anti fascist collectives in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eleven in our memor reason, all the anti fascist
Speaker 1: victims will always exist who are fighting for a world
Speaker 1: of equality, dignity, freedom and social rights were killed by
Speaker 1: the ideas of intolerance and fascism. The memory will exist
Speaker 1: for all those victims who, due to their different cultures,
Speaker 1: religions or sexual orientations, were murdered by the same murdering
Speaker 1: hands who hate those who are different. Now it's time
Speaker 1: to continue working against hate. That is the best tribute
Speaker 1: Weekend offer. Their struggles were not in vain. We will
Speaker 1: continue the path, although they are no longer with us
Speaker 1: in every action of anti fascist struggle. They're inside and
Speaker 1: in each and every one of our hearts, which I
Speaker 1: thought was really poignant. His mother is amazing. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: whole thing fucking breaks me. Like I was think this
Speaker 1: was a time when like I too, was being a
Speaker 1: teenage anti fascist in Spain, and this is someone who's
Speaker 1: like almost exactly my age and obviously isn't alive anymore.
Speaker 1: And yeah, i'd encourage people to read more about him.
Speaker 1: I normally share these events on social media when they happen.
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is extremely sad and continues to be
Speaker 1: extremely sad because Spain refuses to face up to its past,
Speaker 1: the dictatorship. You can look at where Franco's grave is,
Speaker 1: organized a protest and execute it within two weeks and
Speaker 1: toss him in the river if you want to be
Speaker 1: very proud of you. That is absolutely a legal thing
Speaker 1: to do. And I would be prosecuted in Spain, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it did. Any Spain has prosecuted everyone from sucking clowns
Speaker 1: to puppeteers. Now it's now, it's serious. When you start
Speaker 1: coming out of the clowns is when I I start
Speaker 1: getting personally consulted. We need to do our episode on
Speaker 1: clown Block soon, don't we? We do? I can put
Speaker 1: on I have clown block right behind me, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the British police will send someone undercover in
Speaker 1: your clown movement for five year is who will marry
Speaker 1: one of you? And let me let me be a
Speaker 1: silly gesture, leave me alone, Nope, not in Britain. It's
Speaker 1: a crime, all right. Uh, okay, that's been a podcast crimes. Okay,
Speaker 1: welllcome to the fine Spooky Week episode. Hi, look, this
Speaker 1: is this is it could happen here. This is our
Speaker 1: last Spooky Week episode for this year, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking about something extremely spooky and Halloween themed. Rainbow
Speaker 1: fentanyl the newest deadly threat hiding in your kids trigger
Speaker 1: treat basket, or so you would think if you are
Speaker 1: a frequent viewer of Fox News or really any local
Speaker 1: cable news channel, and that rainbow fentonnel in particular is
Speaker 1: troublesome because of its appearance. This is treacherous deception to
Speaker 1: market rainbow fensonel like candy. This is every parents worst nightmare,
Speaker 1: especially in the month of October as Halloween fast approaches.
Speaker 1: That was Fox five News, New York and d E
Speaker 1: a special agent Frank Tarantino, giving a press conference on
Speaker 1: the rainbow fentanyl scourge sweeping the nation. It's not hard
Speaker 1: to see how this narrative became the new protect the
Speaker 1: children pearl clutching panic. It's a natural extension of the
Speaker 1: police officer touches sentinel and spontaneously overdoses lie that local
Speaker 1: news across the country have been pushing for over a
Speaker 1: year now. More on this later, coupled with the old
Speaker 1: classic poisoned, drug laced, tampered Halloween candy myth that's captivated
Speaker 1: American parents for decades, whether it be razor blades, napples,
Speaker 1: needles and tutsie rules, meth in, gummy bears, cocaine candy corn,
Speaker 1: or th HC sour patch kids. If you've ever watched
Speaker 1: any local news during the month of October, clips like
Speaker 1: these should sound really familiar. Police in at least two
Speaker 1: Wisconsin towns are investigating reports of possible Halloween candy tampering
Speaker 1: breaking right now at ten concerns about possible tainted candy
Speaker 1: in Economy Walk tonight. Police tell us they've received reports
Speaker 1: of a suspicious person handing out tutsie rolls on Oakwood Avenue.
Speaker 1: Right now, police have no evidence that any candy has
Speaker 1: definitely been tampered with, the world's leading researcher on Halloween
Speaker 1: candy tampering, Joel Best, professor of sociology and criminal justice
Speaker 1: at the University of Delaware, has found little evidence to
Speaker 1: substantiate Halloween candy fears Joel Best has published multiple studies
Speaker 1: analyzing the legitimacy of Halloween candy tampering, including his research
Speaker 1: paper The Razor Blade in the Apple, The Social Construction
Speaker 1: of Urban Legends, and his sociology book Threatened Children, Rhetoric
Speaker 1: and Concern around Child Victims. I have followed press coverage
Speaker 1: of Halloween back to ninety eight, so more than sixty years,
Speaker 1: and I cannot find any evidence that any child has
Speaker 1: ever been killed or seriously injured by a contaminated treat
Speaker 1: picked up in the course of triggered treaty. So let's
Speaker 1: go back to kind of where all this started. The
Speaker 1: first report of Halloween treats being tampered with in North
Speaker 1: America was in nineteen fifty nine. That's how Leween, a
Speaker 1: California dentist named William Sheen, distributed four hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: laxative laced candies to children, thirty of whom fell ill.
Speaker 1: He was later charged with outrage of public decency and
Speaker 1: unlawful dispensing of drugs. This is kind of like the
Speaker 1: only incident that is that this has ever actually happened
Speaker 1: with was back in the late fifties. This is the
Speaker 1: only true one of someone like handing out actually laced
Speaker 1: candy to tons of kids. Now. To determine whether the
Speaker 1: current tempered Halloween candy myths hold any weight, Joel Best
Speaker 1: examined twenty five years of Halloween coverage from the New
Speaker 1: York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Chicago Tribune. In his research,
Speaker 1: he found that there's only been one confirmed death from
Speaker 1: a poisoned Halloween candy, and it wasn't from a nefarious
Speaker 1: stranger who wanted to harm trick or treaters. The fatal
Speaker 1: incident occurred in nineteen seventy four, after a Texas man
Speaker 1: named Ronald Clarke ob Iron poisoned his eight year old
Speaker 1: son with a cyanide laced pixie stick shortly after he
Speaker 1: took insurance claims out on his children. O'Brien had reportedly
Speaker 1: given poisoned pixie sticks to his daughter and three other
Speaker 1: neighborhood children, but the candy had not been consumed since then.
Speaker 1: Joel Best said that in some instances, kids tamper with
Speaker 1: their own candy to get attention, or a friend or
Speaker 1: a family member played a prank that went awry, or
Speaker 1: even a foreign object ended up inside candy during the
Speaker 1: manufacturing process. And that's the majority of these types of
Speaker 1: claims that you'll see on the local news. Now, Halloween
Speaker 1: can be a particularly dangerous holiday, but not due to
Speaker 1: tampered candy. The real notable danger comes from pedestrian deaths.
Speaker 1: I studied published last year in Gamma Pediatrics, analyzed data
Speaker 1: over a forty two year period in the United States
Speaker 1: and found a forty three percent higher risk of pedestrian
Speaker 1: deaths on Halloween night when compared to the week before
Speaker 1: and after. John Staple, lead author and clinical assistant professor
Speaker 1: of medicine and a scientist at University of British Columbia,
Speaker 1: said that quote, we found that particularly among kids age
Speaker 1: four to eight, the risk was tenfold higher on Halloween.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Halloween actually is pretty dangerous, but it's from
Speaker 1: a car, not from someone sneaking drugs into your kids candy.
Speaker 1: Last year, before the current Rainbow Centinel scare, the drug
Speaker 1: laced trick in your kids treat was weed laced candy
Speaker 1: and snacks, causing quote unquote THHC overdose among children. But
Speaker 1: shady marijuana push yours package them just for kids, and
Speaker 1: if stony patch kids are mixed in, it's hard to tell.
Speaker 1: And Unfortunately, the black market is making it easy for
Speaker 1: children to get these products. Ben Salem police confiscated what
Speaker 1: looks like normal candy during a traffic stop earlier this month.
Speaker 1: But these Sweethearts, they're medicated. These sour patch candies have
Speaker 1: a twist, and these Cheetos are anything but all of
Speaker 1: these items are laced with th HC. By laced with
Speaker 1: th HC, they mean the forty dollar Stoner Patch dummies
Speaker 1: are a manufactured weed candy sold in legal weed shops
Speaker 1: across the country. The fact that these novel t THC
Speaker 1: products are incredibly expensive and in packaging covered in we
Speaker 1: leaves doesn't seem to matter. Um, But yes, I'm sure
Speaker 1: the black market is super eager to give away tiny
Speaker 1: fifty dollar bags of weeded rito's. Two children dressed as
Speaker 1: the Avengers all right, now the details on a big
Speaker 1: warning for parents. Tonight police officers and Ben Salem confiscated
Speaker 1: these items during the traffic stop. It's candy laced with marijuana,
Speaker 1: and now police don't want these friendly looking snacks to
Speaker 1: get into the wrong hands. With Halloween coming up. I'm
Speaker 1: going to quote from Filter mag quote. Attorneys general across
Speaker 1: the country are participating in the annual tradition of urging
Speaker 1: parents to stand vigilant like free drugs disguised as candy.
Speaker 1: On October four, state a g s issued such claims,
Speaker 1: all using the same data and language which appears to
Speaker 1: have been generously pre written for them by the Department
Speaker 1: of Homeland Security Ohio, Illinois, Connecticut, and in New York
Speaker 1: and Arkansas. Earlier that month decried the dangers of youth
Speaker 1: THHC overdose, but without hinting at what those dangers might be,
Speaker 1: except for New York Attorney General Letitia James, who alone
Speaker 1: of the ages swung big, saying New York parents should
Speaker 1: be on the alert for deceptive cannabis products that look
Speaker 1: like standard snacks and candy but contain dangerously high concentrations
Speaker 1: of th HC. These products are especially dangerous for our children.
Speaker 1: We've seen an increase in accidental overdoses among children and nationwide,
Speaker 1: and it's vital that we do everything we can to
Speaker 1: protect our children and curb this crisis and prevent any
Speaker 1: future harm or even worse death. Now that's a stunning claim,
Speaker 1: even by weed disinformation standards. To date, there's been no
Speaker 1: confirmed evidence that THHC overdose has ever killed anybody adult
Speaker 1: or child. So with all of that drug laced Halloween history,
Speaker 1: onto the latest rainbow colored menace in your child's tricker
Speaker 1: retreat basket. That's Halloween approaches. Federal authorities are warning parents
Speaker 1: about the deadly consequences of fitnel pills, particularly about the
Speaker 1: rainbow variety that look like candy. The Drug Enforcement Agency
Speaker 1: first put out a statement on multicolored quote unquote rainbow
Speaker 1: fentanel near the end of August two, claiming during that
Speaker 1: month that the d e A and law enforcement partners
Speaker 1: seized brightly colored fentanel and fentanel pills in states. And
Speaker 1: this is how the presence of colored fentanyl was framed
Speaker 1: in the d e AS initial statement. Quote this trend
Speaker 1: appears to be a new method used by Mexican drug
Speaker 1: cartels to sell highly addictive and potentially deadly ventanyl made
Speaker 1: to look like candy to children unquote. Now, obviously, children
Speaker 1: aren't the biggest consumer base for these drugs, since they
Speaker 1: have no money, have very low tolerance, and are unlikely
Speaker 1: to be a repeat customer. But that hasn't stopped the
Speaker 1: d e A from continuously referring to these colored pills
Speaker 1: as quote unquote marketing to attract kids, as if there's
Speaker 1: rainbow fentanyl ads on Nickelodeon or something. It seems the
Speaker 1: only one marketing rainbow fentanyl is the d e A
Speaker 1: itself and now news channels across the country. This is
Speaker 1: from Good Morning America. Warning certainly one here that parents
Speaker 1: need to hear with Halloween coming up. It's about potential
Speaker 1: deadly fentyl pills that look like candy. Obviously, the d
Speaker 1: e A is an enforcement agency, not a harm reduction agency,
Speaker 1: and the way they've been talking about fentanyl the past
Speaker 1: few months has focused more on old War on Drugs
Speaker 1: style propaganda, with anti immigrant drug warriors pushing the fentanyl
Speaker 1: for kids and narrative. The d e AS messaging seems
Speaker 1: largely targeted to parents and more intended to cause panic
Speaker 1: than actually work to prevent overdoses, and it distracts from
Speaker 1: experts that say drug criminalization is what actually increases overdoses,
Speaker 1: not these quote unquote candy colored pills. Mariah Francis, a
Speaker 1: resource associate with the National Harm Reduction Coalition, says such
Speaker 1: rhetoric is quote an active byproduct of drug policies that
Speaker 1: prioritize criminalization and political agendas over active harm reduction unquote,
Speaker 1: as colored fentyl can actually serve as an indicator that
Speaker 1: these pills are not prescription drugs. The other war on
Speaker 1: drugs style scare tactic being used a lot recently has
Speaker 1: been promoting heavily publicized drug seizures and making highly exaggerated
Speaker 1: claims about what the busts mean to the illicit drug
Speaker 1: supply and public health. Michigan and Ohio, we seized approximately
Speaker 1: four million deadly doses. Special Agent in charge Orville Green
Speaker 1: says nationwide that number jumps to thirty six million deadly
Speaker 1: doses seized and just four months in there in pill
Speaker 1: and powder form, the source materials coming from China produced
Speaker 1: by drug cartels in Mexico, calling them quote unquote deadly doses,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, dude, if you quantify your seizure by an
Speaker 1: amount that could be potentially deadly, I suppose you could
Speaker 1: only measure in deadly quantities. I could do the same
Speaker 1: thing with with caffeine. I can go to the store
Speaker 1: and pick up like ten banging g drinks and be
Speaker 1: I just got a deadly dose of cafe. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: that's if you're measuring it in that way, Sure you
Speaker 1: can measure it as deadly doses. Plus in that clip
Speaker 1: from Fox to Detroit, you can see the anti China,
Speaker 1: anti Mexico angle that they're running with now. Obviously, places
Speaker 1: like Fox News has been eating the stuff up. Just
Speaker 1: during the first half of September. The network mentioned rainbow
Speaker 1: fentannel at least sixty six times on the air over
Speaker 1: the previous month, weaponizing the narrative to blame migrants at
Speaker 1: the border and China for the supposed threat that the
Speaker 1: drug poses to poor, innocent children. And many of people's
Speaker 1: most trusted news sources, which are local news outlets, have
Speaker 1: contributed to the d E a s panic by parroting
Speaker 1: the agency's statements as pure fact, pushing the claim that
Speaker 1: rainbow fentanyl is meant to attract kids just at face value,
Speaker 1: presented without any skepticism, without any fact checking or information
Speaker 1: from independent drug policy experts. Here is a headline from
Speaker 1: ABC twenty four in Tennessee quote rainbow fentanyl the colorful
Speaker 1: marketing tactic already in Memphis streets and this is from
Speaker 1: a TV channel and Raleigh, North Carolina DA warns of
Speaker 1: so called rainbow fentanyl putting children at risk, and headlines
Speaker 1: like that have been a diame a dozen the past month,
Speaker 1: never once bringing up that there's not a single piece
Speaker 1: of evidence that these pills are being peddled on the playground.
Speaker 1: This is exactly the kind of behavior from news organizations
Speaker 1: that leads to misinformation and panics, which distract from actual
Speaker 1: public health dangers and relatively simple things we can do
Speaker 1: to combat them. Fox News, many local news stations, and
Speaker 1: the d e A itself has now joined in the
Speaker 1: long standing annual tradition of Halloween candy based fearmongering by
Speaker 1: baselessly claiming that parents should be concerned about fentanyl appearing
Speaker 1: in their child Halloween candy. Federal agents with an urgent
Speaker 1: warning to parents about potentially deadly sentinel pills that look
Speaker 1: just like candy. Dubbed rainbow fentanyl, authorities are calling it
Speaker 1: a newly packaged poison as Halloween is around the corner.
Speaker 1: The idea that people are going to give away free
Speaker 1: drugs for Halloween, which just get wild concept. Um I
Speaker 1: wish I would, I would go trick or treating more
Speaker 1: if there was free drugs. But this idea has been
Speaker 1: boosted by elected leaders and non d e A government officials.
Speaker 1: Florida's Attorney General, Ashley Moody, did a whole press conference
Speaker 1: saying quote Halloween can be very scary, but nowhere near
Speaker 1: as scary as rainbow colored fentanyl that looks like candy
Speaker 1: and can be lethal in minute doses. Whether these drugs
Speaker 1: are being transported in candy boxes or mixed in with
Speaker 1: other common drugs and sold on suspecting users, the threat
Speaker 1: POE to the safety of kids and young adults is
Speaker 1: very real. Just one pill laced with fentinel can kill,
Speaker 1: so parents, please talk to your children about the dangers
Speaker 1: posed by this extremely lethal drug. Halloween could be scary,
Speaker 1: but that isn't anyway. Senator Rob Portman wrote quote, we
Speaker 1: must have all the boots on the ground to interdict
Speaker 1: deadly rainbow fentanyl as Halloween approaches, which he posted alongside
Speaker 1: a Fox News story about Fentinel disguised in candy packaging,
Speaker 1: which is simply a common tactic to smuggle drugs through borders,
Speaker 1: which is why such packaging is found so often in
Speaker 1: drug seizures. Now, nobody is planning to give away free
Speaker 1: skittle fentanyl. Too, Little Timmy when he comes knocking on
Speaker 1: doors and more quote unquote boots on the ground is
Speaker 1: exactly what law enforcement wanted when they started this lie.
Speaker 1: The d e A budget has gone up every year,
Speaker 1: and so have Fentinel over doses. But it's the won't
Speaker 1: somebody think of the children angle that's so irresistible to
Speaker 1: news media. It provides a huge rush to our cultures
Speaker 1: actual favorite drug, fear for our children. It's the same
Speaker 1: undercurrent that fuels attacks on drag queens and trans people.
Speaker 1: Fear for the kids. While a long piece and CNN
Speaker 1: explicitly said parents of young children should not overly panic,
Speaker 1: h w R A l piece cautioned that quote, we
Speaker 1: all know how easy it is for children to pass
Speaker 1: candy around to each other, as if like rainbow Fentanel
Speaker 1: is going to be shared around like Eminem's at a
Speaker 1: lunch breaker or something like And one of the more
Speaker 1: silly things that I found. People running the account for
Speaker 1: ABC seven Eyewitness News hid over one hundred replies pointing
Speaker 1: out the disinformation in their so called eyewitness news story.
Speaker 1: In their tweet that read quote hashtag breaking twelve thousand
Speaker 1: Fentinel pills seized in wrappers of Skittles whoppers, sweet tarts
Speaker 1: at l a X, sparking renewed Halloween warnings to parents.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they hid over one hundred applies to that
Speaker 1: tweet basically saying this is this is bullshit. You have
Speaker 1: no idea what you're talking about. This this story again,
Speaker 1: it conflates methods of drug trafficking with a longstanding myth
Speaker 1: of expensive drugs being hidden in cheap Halloween candy. And then,
Speaker 1: by far the most ridiculous thing that I found. It's
Speaker 1: just because it's kind of absurd and slightly funny. Laura
Speaker 1: Trump on Fox News did the most ridiculous Rainbow Fentinel
Speaker 1: segment that I could find, including spreading the blatant lie
Speaker 1: that police officers have indeed died by simply touching fentanyl. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you look at the police officers who when they just
Speaker 1: pat people down and they find it, if it touches
Speaker 1: their fingers, they literally go into shock and almost die
Speaker 1: from it. Something I think have died from it. The
Speaker 1: idea that you could have a kid anywhere in America
Speaker 1: if if one child dies from this on Halloween. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, we have to take action to stop
Speaker 1: this right now because parents are terrified and we have
Speaker 1: no answers, what are we supposed to do? They're gonna
Speaker 1: go trick or truth? So Democrats ruin Halloween to can
Speaker 1: they really do? So. What you wouldn't know by watching
Speaker 1: these types of news programs, whether they be Fox News
Speaker 1: or just regular cable news, is that the colors in
Speaker 1: these drugs have been added to pills for years. The
Speaker 1: real danger isn't that kids are being given fentanyl like candy.
Speaker 1: It's that fentanyl is being pressed into the shapes of
Speaker 1: other prescription drugs like oxy codone, and people will take
Speaker 1: a fentanyl pill thinking it's something else and then overdose.
Speaker 1: And throughout many of these news stories, they don't mention narcan,
Speaker 1: or if they do, they mentioned in the context as saying,
Speaker 1: like this school in l A Now carries narcan. That's
Speaker 1: how bad things are getting. They use the presence of
Speaker 1: an arcan as like a bad omen which mean no,
Speaker 1: people should just have narcan everywhere cause it's great. More
Speaker 1: on that later. But these colored pills provide such a
Speaker 1: compelling visual for anyone with a financial stake in continuing prohibition.
Speaker 1: In a way, the d A is right. Rainbow fentanyl
Speaker 1: is a marketing stunt, but one concocted by the d
Speaker 1: e A itself as a justification for its own existence,
Speaker 1: rather than drug sellers marketing their product to kids, using
Speaker 1: the escalating demonization of fentanyl to call for increased funding
Speaker 1: to law enforcement and border patrol, and the need to
Speaker 1: convince a public acclimating to the idea of fentanyl that actually,
Speaker 1: fentanyl is even scarier than what they once thought. Quoting
Speaker 1: filter Meg again quote, people sell drugs because they are
Speaker 1: economically motivated to do so. No one except the d
Speaker 1: e A and its allies is arguing that it's a
Speaker 1: good business strategy to kill off your adult buyers and
Speaker 1: give free samples to children previously untapped customer base because
Speaker 1: the fentanyl wasn't never pretty enough, and not because children
Speaker 1: do not have money. The emergence of different colors that
Speaker 1: pressed pills alongside the traditional blue fentinel pills won't lure
Speaker 1: in younger buyers. If anything, it will help keep newer
Speaker 1: buyers safe. Unquote, Brightly colored fake pills that are clearly
Speaker 1: fake are helpful for people being cut off of their
Speaker 1: prescription and turning to street drugs to remind them that
Speaker 1: what they're getting is not the oxy codon that they're
Speaker 1: used to, but something more podent, and for more on
Speaker 1: what fentinel actually is and to kind of get an
Speaker 1: expert opinion on these topics, I interviewed Ryan Marino, uh,
Speaker 1: the resident fentanyl expert who's sited and basically all of
Speaker 1: these news stories. So after the s ad break you
Speaker 1: will hear that interview. First, can you introduce yourself? So
Speaker 1: I'm Ryan Marino. I'm a medical toxicologist, emergency doc and
Speaker 1: addiction medicine specialists. So what exactly is fentanyl? What, what's
Speaker 1: the deal? What's what? What is what is the actual thing?
Speaker 1: Because people I know have heard a lot about it,
Speaker 1: but they may may be unaware, like what this type
Speaker 1: of opioid is, how it's different from other things, why
Speaker 1: it's around. Yeah, and I think most people here kind
Speaker 1: of one side of fentanyl. And so fentanyl is a
Speaker 1: synthetic opioid, So it's a lot like harro and morphine,
Speaker 1: oxycoda and all those other things. It acts the same way.
Speaker 1: The difference is that it is more potent and because
Speaker 1: it is fully synthetic, it can be made without the
Speaker 1: necessity for like large poppy fields whether all that stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's it's very easy to produce. It's used medically
Speaker 1: all the time. UM, it's like one of the most
Speaker 1: ubiquitously used medicines and very invaluable lot for its medical uses,
Speaker 1: but in the street because of a potency small amounts
Speaker 1: to make a huge difference in the dose that people get,
Speaker 1: and so fentanyl in street drugs has been the main
Speaker 1: driver behind what people call our opioid overdose epidemic UM
Speaker 1: and the kind of record breaking overdose deaths that we've
Speaker 1: had in recent years. I would like guess that one
Speaker 1: of the biggest reasons that people have heard about fentanyl
Speaker 1: is due to police officers and all of the stories
Speaker 1: from the past year of police officers spontaneously overdosing by
Speaker 1: either touching it, getting too close to it, breathing the
Speaker 1: same air that it's around. Can you overdose by touching fentanyl?
Speaker 1: You cannot, UM, So there is a hatch that's made
Speaker 1: for the medical fentyl, so it can absorb through your
Speaker 1: skin if you try really, really hard, but it's incredibly ineffective.
Speaker 1: Even with the best pharmaceutical technology that money could buy. UM,
Speaker 1: this is still very slow, very ineffective. Touching fentyl cannot
Speaker 1: cause an over dose and the way it exists on
Speaker 1: the street particularly, you're never going to encounter the form
Speaker 1: or quantity that you would need to cause an overdose.
Speaker 1: So these stories are nothing more than urban legends and misinformation.
Speaker 1: How why are people having these effects? Then? Right? Because
Speaker 1: there's videos of people like fainting and falling over and
Speaker 1: they're like this police officer needed to receive narcan and
Speaker 1: was rushed to the hospital. Like what what? What's actually
Speaker 1: happening there? Because people obviously look like they're experiencing something,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really match up with what fentinel is
Speaker 1: able to do. So it's a really interesting phenomenon. And
Speaker 1: if you look at any of these stories, any of
Speaker 1: these videos, you can very clearly see people having real symptoms.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to cast any doubt on that, but
Speaker 1: what's reported and what's shown is actually the opposite of
Speaker 1: what fentyl would do, And so people report feeling very anxious,
Speaker 1: breathing very rapidly, having their heart race, all of the
Speaker 1: things that fentyl would actually cause the opposite. And so
Speaker 1: I can only speculate on what's really happening there, but
Speaker 1: my guests would be that this is some sort of
Speaker 1: panic reaction related to the fact that people are hearing
Speaker 1: about this every day, hearing the vannel is killing hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of people, hearing that other people have just
Speaker 1: dropped down from being near it. UM. And there's also
Speaker 1: this related concept called the no cebo effect, which is
Speaker 1: kind of like the dark side of the placebo effect,
Speaker 1: if you will, UM. And so basically it's just that
Speaker 1: if you believe something so strongly, you can have very
Speaker 1: negative of real symptoms from it, and the way you
Speaker 1: would treat this would be with a placebo, which in
Speaker 1: these situations Narkian is a placebo. So the fact that
Speaker 1: Narkian works for some of them UM kind of suggests
Speaker 1: that there is some sort of placebo no cebo effect
Speaker 1: going on. I know that the ventil has become more
Speaker 1: common since the pandemics rough you, I would say probably
Speaker 1: starting in California is what most of most of it
Speaker 1: looks like in terms of like the whole like opioid
Speaker 1: epidemic thing, like why is this become such a big
Speaker 1: problem in the past like three years specifically, like with
Speaker 1: fentanyl getting into so much of the supply well, so
Speaker 1: fentyl started getting cut into heroin. UM particularly on the
Speaker 1: East coast like pretty early on, probably like ten or
Speaker 1: more years ago now, and took a while to make
Speaker 1: its way west. It seemed like California actually had different heroin,
Speaker 1: and particularly like black tar, heroin was more prevalent there,
Speaker 1: which can't be as easily replaced with a powder for
Speaker 1: anyone who's familiar with heroin. UM. But now, I mean,
Speaker 1: there is really no like other opioid supply, So things
Speaker 1: like heroin are almost impossible to come by just because
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist in the world. The like oxycodone, oxycont
Speaker 1: and all of these pills that people used to sell
Speaker 1: on the street also just don't exist because they're not
Speaker 1: being prescribed anymore. Some of them aren't even being manufactured anymore. UM.
Speaker 1: And so what's left is really when you take away
Speaker 1: the supply but you don't address the demand, is something's
Speaker 1: got to fill it. And Fentyl is there. Fentyl is
Speaker 1: really easy to make. Its relatively cheap um and simple
Speaker 1: to produce, and so you can press it into pills
Speaker 1: that look like oxycodone. You can mix it up into
Speaker 1: a powder that looks like heroin and gives people similar effects.
Speaker 1: But because it's so much more potent, which it's like
Speaker 1: fifty times more potent than heroin. Um So, I mean
Speaker 1: if you think just in terms of percentage wise, like
Speaker 1: a one or two percent difference could be double the
Speaker 1: dose when you compare it to something. Um So, that's
Speaker 1: where the trouble comes in. And then with the rainbow
Speaker 1: fentanyl angle, the DA has been talking about how fentanyl
Speaker 1: is this new thing to market two children. They sort
Speaker 1: of market a lot of being like this is like
Speaker 1: some advertising job done by big drug to to sell
Speaker 1: to sell two kids. Um Because first off, like why
Speaker 1: would these drugs be pressed into different colors, like with
Speaker 1: with with with the fentanyl pills being in you know,
Speaker 1: the multi colored collect Like what's the actual purpose of that. Well,
Speaker 1: so that's a great question. And I don't know what
Speaker 1: to make of whatever the d e A Is doing
Speaker 1: and why they make these announcements because there's there's no
Speaker 1: evidence behind it. Um They have provided no evidence and
Speaker 1: their own press releases going back years show multiple colors
Speaker 1: of ventational pressed pills. Um My best guests and in
Speaker 1: talking to like people use drugs, people who work in
Speaker 1: the same space across the country, is that pharmaceuticals come
Speaker 1: in different colors, and so these probably were mostly just
Speaker 1: to mimic things like oxycode on tabs. Also, I mean
Speaker 1: dealers like to add their own kind of like marked
Speaker 1: the things in terms of heroin will come with different
Speaker 1: like stamps on the bag, so probably something similar there.
Speaker 1: But also I mean people just tend to like things
Speaker 1: that are are colored more than like a grainy beige
Speaker 1: pill um. If it comes with like a pink or
Speaker 1: green on, it is going to be more desirable. But
Speaker 1: there's no evidence what so ever that this is intentionally
Speaker 1: marketed towards children. Children are not good clients for for
Speaker 1: drug dealers, and these are just things that adults want.
Speaker 1: American adults are the ones buying these drugs. I guess
Speaker 1: can you speak more on how the d e as
Speaker 1: rhetorics around this thing, especially it's been like escalating the
Speaker 1: past few months leading up to Halloween, right, there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of heavily publicized seizures saying like we seized
Speaker 1: enough sentinel to kill five hundred million people or something like.
Speaker 1: They're like they they frame it in this really like
Speaker 1: bombastic way, and then you're there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: talking about how it's it's being hidden in like candy
Speaker 1: boxes and they're going to be giving it out on
Speaker 1: Halloween to your kids, And like, what is the d
Speaker 1: A doing? Like what what's their incentive for talking about
Speaker 1: it in this way? And obviously and you I can't
Speaker 1: like ask you, like what what is the d A doing? Ryan?
Speaker 1: Why are they deal like this? But like from your perspective,
Speaker 1: like like this rhetoric doesn't seem very helpful in terms
Speaker 1: of actually preventing overdoses. It seems to be kind of
Speaker 1: just fear mundering um specifically with stuff like like like
Speaker 1: like like with the drugs being hidden inside candy boxes.
Speaker 1: There's reasons for why people might do that to smuggle them.
Speaker 1: But with all of the rhetoric that the DA has
Speaker 1: been been pushing, like, is it like actually dangerous the
Speaker 1: way that they've been talking about it in terms of
Speaker 1: like it's not it's not talking about harm, production, is
Speaker 1: not talking about ways to actually help. It's just like
Speaker 1: scaring parents, it seems. Yeah. I mean, I think the
Speaker 1: d e A is solely a law enforcement agency. There
Speaker 1: is no one there involved in the treatment of addiction
Speaker 1: in terms of like addiction science, chemistry. No one there
Speaker 1: who is like a performer drug user even Um. So
Speaker 1: their motives are always suspect to me. And I think
Speaker 1: with this rainbow fentanel press release they put it out,
Speaker 1: there was no evidence behind it, that none of it
Speaker 1: made any sense. Um. The term rainbow fentanyl wasn't even
Speaker 1: searchable before August two when the d A made this announcement,
Speaker 1: which is is kind of crazy to think about. Um.
Speaker 1: And then within six weeks of that announcement, US Congress
Speaker 1: has pledged to give them hundreds of millions more dollars
Speaker 1: to quote unquote fight rainbow fentan all, which is again
Speaker 1: a thing that does not exist. Um. And I mean
Speaker 1: looking back, the d e A budget has gone up
Speaker 1: year on year hundreds of percent since like the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: but even within the context of our opioid overdose crisis
Speaker 1: has gone up year on year for all of the
Speaker 1: past I don't know however many years you want to
Speaker 1: look at it. Their department size grows every year, uh,
Speaker 1: and overdose deaths go up every year. So whatever they're
Speaker 1: doing is obviously not working. Um. And like you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, they particularly ignore in distract from things like
Speaker 1: harm reduction, from real and space measures and kind of
Speaker 1: public health investments that we could be making. And when
Speaker 1: it comes to hundreds of millions of dollars extra being
Speaker 1: thrown at the d e A for Rainbow fentannel, and
Speaker 1: we think back to, what was it just like last
Speaker 1: winter when the current administration set aside I think thirty
Speaker 1: million dollars towards harm reduction being the first time the
Speaker 1: federal government has put aside dedicated money for harm reduction,
Speaker 1: and that created its own kind of like moral panic
Speaker 1: backlash as well. Um, but thirty million dollars was the
Speaker 1: first and only federal investment in harm reduction, and yet
Speaker 1: three million dollars can be drummed up at the drop
Speaker 1: of a hat for an invented crisis. So it does
Speaker 1: really kind of beg the question of, like, what are
Speaker 1: we doing here? And why are we continuing to do
Speaker 1: things that don't work? What do you wish people knew
Speaker 1: that would help them maybe combat some of the misinformation
Speaker 1: that gets peddled by like lots of like local TV
Speaker 1: stations are very quick to cover types of stories, very
Speaker 1: quick to cover the stories of like your local cop
Speaker 1: just almost died at the school by getting within five
Speaker 1: ft of a sentinel vaporizer or something like like what
Speaker 1: what do you wish people knew to help like combat
Speaker 1: this type of stuff. I mean, it seems like common
Speaker 1: sense is just not common when it comes to drug topics.
Speaker 1: If the police were saying that people were giving out
Speaker 1: guns for Halloween, if they were saying that they found
Speaker 1: uranium or plutonium in a car and four officers went down,
Speaker 1: that would require serious consideration and fact checking before it
Speaker 1: ever was reported on or accepted. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to this idea that someone
Speaker 1: was in a car with a bag of fentinyl and
Speaker 1: nobody in the car was affected, but the officers outside
Speaker 1: the car all went down, um like just basic kind
Speaker 1: of critical thinking or applying any lens of skepticism, I mean,
Speaker 1: makes all of these narratives fall apart. So that would
Speaker 1: be I mean, my biggest ask in people watching these stories.
Speaker 1: I feel like the onus of responsibility really should be
Speaker 1: on the ones who are reporting it, not to just
Speaker 1: necessarily take the words of law enforcement as authority on
Speaker 1: every subject, especially when they do not have the background
Speaker 1: to be authorities on how things like ventinyl work. Before
Speaker 1: we close out, I would like to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about narcan um like what it is, what it does,
Speaker 1: and where people can get it. So Narcan is amazing.
Speaker 1: I cannot say enough positive things about Narcan. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not like a religious person or anything, but if
Speaker 1: miracles were to exist, Narcan is literally a miracle, um
Speaker 1: and especially if anyone has ever seen it in action.
Speaker 1: But so, what it is for people who don't know,
Speaker 1: Narcan is the brand name nasal spray of nilock Zone,
Speaker 1: which is the antidote or the reversal agent for anyone
Speaker 1: experiencing an opioid overdose, including fentyl. And there are no
Speaker 1: opioids that Narcan does not work on. It isn't gonna
Speaker 1: reverse every situation, certainly, um. But it is a perfect antidote,
Speaker 1: so to speak, or as close to one as we
Speaker 1: have ever had, um And So I mean, if you
Speaker 1: are worried about someone experiencing an overdose, it's something that
Speaker 1: you can carry or have nearby, and anyone can give it.
Speaker 1: It was the nasal spray was actually designed with taxpayer dollars.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough um so that an untrained child could administer it,
Speaker 1: and so it's very easy to use. It's very easy
Speaker 1: to obtain for the most part, nowadays it's available and
Speaker 1: I think almost every state without a prescription, you can
Speaker 1: just go to your pharmacy and ask for it UM.
Speaker 1: If you can't get it from like your local health
Speaker 1: department or another harm reduction organization. But I have it
Speaker 1: in my car and every work bag I have UM,
Speaker 1: I take it with me when I travel. It's something
Speaker 1: that people can carry and really makes a big difference.
Speaker 1: And obviously you don't want to experience or come across
Speaker 1: someone having an overdose. But it's much better to have
Speaker 1: with you UM if you need it than to be
Speaker 1: unprepared and have to kind of deal with the consequences.
Speaker 1: And I think this far into this like opioid overdose
Speaker 1: crisis that the United States and now most of the
Speaker 1: world has been experiencing. Most people can probably think of
Speaker 1: someone who they know who they've lost to overdose or
Speaker 1: or similar situation UM, and you don't want to kind
Speaker 1: of be stuck regretting it later. Well, thank you so much. UM.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you on the internet? So I'm
Speaker 1: mostly just on Twitter at Ryan Marino, just my name
Speaker 1: on word all right, Well, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on to talk to us about the latest scourge
Speaker 1: hiding inside your kid's Halloween basket. Thanks so with that,
Speaker 1: that does it for us today here at it could
Speaker 1: happen here? Um, have fun, tricker treating. Um, if you
Speaker 1: have any drugs, good for you. I'm happy you got
Speaker 1: this for free. Watch out for cars. Uh those are
Speaker 1: actually day dress. And thanks thanks to everybody who attended
Speaker 1: the recent It could Happen here live stream. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming. I hope to get through more questions,
Speaker 1: but we went a little long because there were so
Speaker 1: many people. But I will I will answer two more
Speaker 1: questions here. Did you know that the latest My Little
Speaker 1: Pony movie has a literal xenophobobic fascist dictator as an antagonist? No,
Speaker 1: I did not know that, but it's not surprising based
Speaker 1: on what I know about the recent My Little Pony media.
Speaker 1: And then, um, what do you think is the most
Speaker 1: important thing somebody can have for a disaster or chaos preparedness?
Speaker 1: My personal answer to that would probably be friends, friends,
Speaker 1: really useful UM books on how to like make stuff
Speaker 1: and like how to like you know, basically survival books
Speaker 1: because you don't want to count on having the Internet.
Speaker 1: And then I don't know, like water, water filters, water
Speaker 1: purification tablets. Those would be those would be my picks.
Speaker 1: But I hope everyone has a happy, happy Halloween and
Speaker 1: that doesn't here for it Could Happen Here. Closing out
Speaker 1: our Lady just Spooky week. Hey, We'll be back Monday
Speaker 1: with more episodes every week from now until the heat
Speaker 1: death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a
Speaker 1: production of pool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.