WEBVTT - India's Cockroach Protests; Netanyahu's Challenger 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:10.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:15.920 This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini and Lisa Matteo. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.560 Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:20.959 the show. 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.479 You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.800 the podcast, but also make sure to join us live 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.000 every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at seven am Eastern. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.760 We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:37.600 bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.120 lifestyle and culture. 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.200 We'll get back to that rising youth unemployment in India 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.760 which is sparked. Student led cockroach movement just managed to 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.360 houst a cabinet minister while presenting a growing challenge to 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:49.599 Prime Minister in rand Remotium. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.760 The protests highlight the extent to which India's economic rise 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.280 is failing to include young unemployed graduates, with many feeling 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.160 their lives and futures are being ignored by the governing party. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.400 Joining us now is Bloomberg News Senior reporter Dan Strength. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:03.920 Dan, the most interesting. 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.920 Thing to me is the catalyst for all of this 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.920 seems to have been a set of leaked test answers, 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.840 Can you please explain why that mattered and how that 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:13.479 got us here? 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.480 Sure? Sure, yeah, that's absolutely right. So what was the 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.360 catalyst in all of this was it was actually a 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:26.200 series of leaked what's known in India as exam papers. Essentially, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.600 it's the early leak of the actual test itself that 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.840 was circulating among some students and essentially forced the government 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.840 to invalidate a huge number of the one of the 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.920 most competitive tests in India, which is the test to 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.240 get into medical school. Now this affects hundreds of thousands 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.120 of students, if not more. It's a highly sought after 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.560 sort of pathway for high achievers in India, widely seen 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.760 as kind of a way out of poverty, and it 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.800 is really it really at the time shook the confidence 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.680 in the nation's education system, which for a long time 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:05.800 has been having trouble really funneling it's many young educated 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:07.440 students into well paying jobs. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:08.440 So all of this has. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.760 Kind of culminated come to a head in the last 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.760 couple of months in the form of this movement that 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.920 we have seen that has taken to the streets and 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.720 as you said, has really shaken the politics of India 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.400 and forced this rare retreat by the government in the 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:25.240 form of the resignation of the Education Minister, and you know, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.920 calls for this group to kind of carry on it's mandate, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.360 to keep pushing and keep calling for reform. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.079 We were chatting about the name of the group and 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.679 for us as the Yorker as cockroaches have one connotation, 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.799 I gather there's a satirical connotation there in India. Explain 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:42.520 that if you would. This is the c JP versus 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.440 the BJP, which is the ruling party, which is helm 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.799 by Nerandromodi. Explain the joke, if you would, and maybe 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.000 tell us just a bit about how cohesive this group 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:50.800 of young people is. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.160 Yeah, so it is a satirical movement. It started as 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.200 a sort of a joke among some young people. Uh, 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.280 you know, it's a play. It is a play on 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.280 the ruling party, the b JP. What they're calling themselves 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.360 is the CJP, the cockroach jaunt the party. And it 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.280 essentially stemmed from what was kind of an offhand remark 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.519 some months back by the Chief Justice of the Supreme 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.320 Court of India sort of dismissively referring to unemployed young 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.760 people as kind of cockroaches of society with with with 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:23.920 nothing better to do but sort of uh, you know, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.119 disrupt things and cause trouble. Now, this did not go well. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.560 This did not go down well among some young people, 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.520 and and they started sort of joking on it online 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.760 on Twitter. Uh, a sort of riff began to circulate, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.960 and and this this joke essentially metamorphized into what became 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.200 what is what they're calling themselves a political party. It's 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.920 still not officially that it's it's a movement of sorts, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.560 but it's it's this, it's this movement around this sense 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.880 of aggrievement, this sense of disenfranchisement among young people, that 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.880 the system is sort of not working for them, that 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.080 the education system now working for them, that the economy 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:03.680 is now working for them, that they're not getting the 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.360 jobs that they need, and that the establishment, the political 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.600 class in India isn't listening to them, and worse is 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:14.360 mocking them and sort of uh, dismissing them as as cockroaches. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.200 So they've sort of taken on this mantle and and 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.400 and and of kind of sort of wearing it proudly. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.960 And you really see, you know, in the form of 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.080 some of those videos you just showed some of those 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.200 videos you just showed, you know, embracing this this this 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.440 sort of cockroach mantle and taking it forward. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.880 Just one secrecy and Dan wins the show thus far. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.520 We're talking about the cockroach movement. He has the kofa 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.240 s metamorphosis reference there to the way this group has developed. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.080 You're in the lead, Dan, You're leader, the leader for it. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.080 That's far all right, That was entirely that was an 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:45.800 entirely unintended. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.440 Incidental I'm sure as you mentioned it. 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.160 It does sound great, totally derailed by trade of thought. 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.559 But I did want to talk about who was going 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.320 to these protests. I've been listening to some reports on 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.279 them throughout the weeks, and it seems like it's not 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.360 just kids anymore. As there was some crackdowns on these protests, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.960 I heard of parents and aunties and uncles like showing 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.919 up to try to show support because, as you mentioned, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.560 these tests are really important, but they're kind of the 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.280 whole family has stake in them, especially if you're from 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.320 a not well off family. Those test results are seen 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.200 as a way to break generations of a cycle of 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.719 poverty and the amount of pressure that has put on 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.200 these young people and then to then allow kind of 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.320 these malfeasance or these leaked test results. People were just 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.000 really really upset about it. Who's going to these protests 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.400 and are they specific about what they want? 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.480 So it did start off as a sort of a 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.560 very much a student led protest. The founder of the 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.880 movement was a student actually studying in the US at 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.520 the time of Indian descent, was studying at Boston University. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.440 You since come back to help lead the movement here, 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.679 but it was very much a sort of a movement 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.200 that started at the grassroots level from students. It has 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.640 since grown much more widely. I mean, you do see 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.000 sort of just young people across society joining in the protests, 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.560 and as you said, many of their family members have 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:06.080 also been coming out because you're absolutely right. For many families, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.680 you know, many of these students who were taking the tests, 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.000 who are hoping to go on to these higher education 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.520 programs that have come under threat, were the first people 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.320 in their families to do this. I mean, this is 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.480 you know, India remains, you know, a low income country 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.400 that puts a lot of priority on education and on 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.440 the opportunities that education can afford. You're seeing a lot 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.159 of pathways close off for many young Indians. For example, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.960 many who used to go to the US for education 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.000 or for employment on H one B visas. That was 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.960 a major pathway for many Indians. Now that's being closed off. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:41.920 So all of these things are kind of coming together, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.479 and you do see many more people kind of joining 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.520 the protests. One big tipping point I think has been 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.480 what the way the government initially responded to these protests, 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.520 which was was actually quite a quite a tough crackdown 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.719 in the form of police coming out into the streets 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.760 using batons on some of the protesters, using tear gas, 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:07.120 allegations of pellet guns as well being used, and a 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.120 lot of these images and videos of this sort of 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.080 of this response by the police have circulated widely on 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.480 social media and really has helped it inflame the movement 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.600 and actually spread a lot of sympathy I think for 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.440 many of these protesters, which is which is around the 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.400 time that you started to really see the movement take off. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.240 So it has seen quite a sort of widespread sympathy. Uh, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.720 and it's and it's growing, and it really it does 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:33.960 show no signs of slowing down. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:35.400 Yeah, great to speak with you. Thank you very much 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.120 for the update. Dan Strump showing us for New Delhi here. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.120 Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:56.920 after this, Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin at Yahoo is one 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.400 of several world leaders who made the pilgrimage to Washington, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.840 d C. This to attend the memorial service for the 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.440 late Senator Lindsey Graham. And while he was in DC 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.960 Netanyah who had a meeting with the President. It was 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.800 productive according to the White House, and excellent according to 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:11.480 the Prime Minister. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.080 All Right, that being said, Israel's elections are less than 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.720 two months away, and then Yao is facing a formidable 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.480 challenger from his former military advisor, Gottie Eisenkott. We caught 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.679 out with David Remnick, the editor of The New Yorker, 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.440 who just published a new profile of BB's challenger. 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.520 David, thanks for being here, and I want to start 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.120 with some recent polling here from Channel twelve in Israel. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.080 A question to voters was who's the best candidate for 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.480 Israel's Prime minister? Fifty nine percent said not Netanyahoo. And 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.960 it makes me wonder how vulnerable is the prime minister 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:43.480 right now? As he looks forward to this election. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.200 I want to mark it down right here. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.760 He is vulnerable, but I would never count bb netanyah 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.720 who out. You have to remember this country has moved 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.280 steadily to the right in the last generation. Younger voters 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.000 are even more conservative than their elders, and since October seventh, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.959 the country has moved to the right. So even though 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:08.480 there's a lot of ANTIBB sentiment for reasons we can discuss. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.080 And even though Gotti Eisenkob, the subject of the piece 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.920 that I in New Yorker, is now seemingly in the lead, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.240 is three months left in the race, and a lot 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:18.760 can happen. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.400 But can you explain how that doesn't translate to the 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.720 polls when people go to vote. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.760 Well, I don't know. It's like long marriages. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:28.079 I think. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.640 I think the country has grown sick of reports of 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.000 his corruption. There are a lot of people who blame 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.560 him for the national security collapse on October seventh. There 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.000 are a lot of people who are angry about the 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.520 deals he cuts with the ultra orthodox so that they 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.199 don't have to go to the army or not get 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.120 arrested for dodging the draft. There's a multiplicity of reasons. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.719 You know, pick your poison. Most of the reasons are 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.760 not the reasons that people here dislike. And I should 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.800 add and I should also say it's very important to 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.600 know I think tragically that the business of two states 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.200 and Palestinian rights is not exactly in the center of 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:08.880 the campaign. 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.520 Let's talk about Gottie Eisencott, whom you profile in the piece. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.120 He's somebody who knows Natyahu very well. He was in 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.600 the IDF for four decades and the knnessa after that. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.959 You describe him as the anti BB. Tell us a 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:23.760 bit about his platform and how it contrasts with what 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:24.760 we see from the Prime minister. 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:26.120 Again, I don't. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.920 Want to mistake eisen Kott for some you know, a 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.440 man of the left. For example, this is somebody who 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.719 is the chief of the General Staff under Nettagna, who 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.200 that's the top military position. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.040 It's like being the head of the Joint Chiefs. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.280 But I think that there's a very personal attached to 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:48.520 Eisencott that israelis no longer have in the main with Nettagne, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:53.480 who he's seen as more honest, more sincere, and I 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.840 think that they reflect they see something in him that 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.959 they see in themselves a certain brokenness, a certain damage, 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.920 exemplified by the fact that Eisincott lost his own son 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:05.280 and two. 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.520 Nephews soon thereafter in the war. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.880 So there is a certain kind of heart that he 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.599 projects that Netta, who certainly does not a lot of Israelis, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:22.800 really resented Netta Yahoo for his seeming indifference to the 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:27.199 hostages and the hostage families during during the war, and. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.280 That caused a lot of anger. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:35.720 His antipathy, not his antipathy, but seeming indifference to them. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:36.079 That surprised me. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.120 I remember I was talking to a couple hostage families 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.280 who are very conservative and very on the right side politically, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.280 and we're just absolutely furious at NATANIELO and saying this 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:45.280 would be his downfall. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.920 But to your earlier point, so how so far it 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:48.680 hasn't been. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.720 Do you think Eisencott because he's not exactly dichotomist? Is 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.880 he a good choice because he's not completely on the 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.599 other side of things? But as you said, it's you 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.120 would never count beb out completely. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:01.280 Let me be clear about this. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.080 Israel is in no way going to elect someone from 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.959 the left as we understand it here. Israel, much as 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.199 you might want them to. Is not going to elect 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.160 someone in this election cycle or anytime soon who makes 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.599 it a priority to talk about the rights of the Palestinians, 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.400 the future of a potential Palestinian state. That is just 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.880 not the agenda. Even Yayrglanos, the head of the Democratic Party, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.360 when he talks about two states, he talks about it 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.120 in the distant future, whatever that may be. 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:36.679 Now. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.920 They were also, i should say, because it's rarely mentioned 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.880 in Israel, a fifth of this country, twenty percent of 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.280 the country are Palestinian citizens of Israel Arabs. 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:48.240 They also get a vote. 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.280 But in this coalition arrangement and the current political mood 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.360 of Israel, it is an unsayable thing to say that 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:01.000 you could you'll make a coalition with those voters, which 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.040 complicates matters even more. Netta Yaho is going to and 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.439 is already attacking Eisenkott for being too friendly to Arabs 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.840 or willing to make a government with the Arab of parties. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.280 This campaign is going to get lower and lower and 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.679 dirtier and dirtier. Nah who speaks the Trumpian language of 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.160 the deep state, and he refers to us meeting the 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.280 press as enemies of the people. There's a real interplay 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.280 between Trump and Natanyahu, a real influence back and forth 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.040 between the two of them, even though their relationship lately 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:39.640 has suffered. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.320 I want to talk about that in just a minute, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:43.880 but first I wonder if you could draw that contest. 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.400 We talked about the kind of ideological or political contrast, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.560 but between these two so much as there is one, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:50.920 how about in terms of political polish And you're kind 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.439 of getting at that a moment to go. So when 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.640 you were on the campaign trail with him, listening to 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.560 him speak, how different does he present from a Benjamin 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:58.160 at Yahoo. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:04.120 It's not Eisenkott is anything but a polished campaigner. He 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.760 is not an exciting orator. He comes across and you'll 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.600 forgive the iiddishism as a kind of Menshi guy, But 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.360 this is also an army general and the author of 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:21.880 the Dahia doctrine, which is a rather brutal military doctrine 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.280 of destroying civilian infrastructure as a way to flush out 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.080 terrorists who hide within it, whether it's in Lebanon or 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:34.160 later in Gaza. But his personal bearing on the stump, 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.360 his imagery in the Israeli imagination is quite different than 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:40.960 Ettenio was, You're absolutely. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.119 Right when it comes to the Trump a BB relationship 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:45.239 that David was referencing. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.400 It's certainly gone through its ups and downs. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.360 But previously when campaigning, you know, there were posters of 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.160 the two of them put up across Israel, and he 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.600 was really leading into this relationship. I'm wondering, coming off 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.800 of Iran, if that's something he should be doing. Was 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.000 Iran seen as it's a liability for BB strategically and 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.120 where does that leave his relationship going into the election. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.840 You make a crucial point, a crucial point, and here's 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.160 the crux of the difference. It's not personality. The crux 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.280 of the difference is that for Netsagne, who it's in 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:18.000 his greatest political interest for the war to keep going. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.960 For Trump, he can't get out of this war soon enough, 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.640 even though he seemingly does not know how to, because 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.200 he's in up to his neck Trumps politically, who's facing 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.560 the midterms. He is seeing gas prices soar, he's seeing 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.800 two thirds of the American people or seventy percent of 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.520 the American people against this war, seeing it as a 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.040 strategic disaster, and they don't know why the hell were 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.000 in in the first place, whereas the Israelis have been 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.280 sold a bill of goods, believe it or not, since 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:52.000 since Netagne, who came on the political scene decades ago, Netannell, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.360 who has been trying to sell American presidents and going 0:15:54.360 --> 0:16:01.920 to war with Iran since the nineties, and since George W. Bush, Obama, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:03.960 any number of presidents, and. 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.080 Trump was the first to say yes. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.880 But now Trump finds himself looking to get out as 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.840 quickly as possible, and deeply resentful of Nataniell, who he loved, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.240 Nataya who when he was a winner, and not so 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.320 much when things have gone south. 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.760 Day before you got this job, you were at the post. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.400 You covered Russian and I think we want to spend 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.320 a couple of minutes talking about that. I mean, there's 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.360 been a lot of conversation among experts about the position 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.200 that Vladimir Putin is in right now. And we see 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.680 the gains that Ukraine has made here in recent months, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.720 really pushing into Russian territory, and there's this sense that 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:38.960 if Putin doesn't have his back to the wall, maybe 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.720 it's getting closer to that. How do you think about 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.080 his grip on power and the potential consequences of that 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.400 him being forced in a position where there is more 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.680 vulnerability than we've seen in the last couple of years. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.040 Let me say what most reporters are unwilling to say 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:54.760 when faced with a television camera. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:55.800 I don't know. 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.480 In other words, there's so as opposed to the Israeli 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.360 political culture, to some extent, the American political culture, which 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:09.520 is relatively relatively transparent and reportable, the ability to report 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.040 inside the Kremlin and understand what might happen tomorrow in 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.879 terms of opposition and so on and so forth is 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.639 relatively obscure. It's a little bit like the old days 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:25.560 of you know, in communist times, pre Gorbachev. However, I 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:31.960 will say that a combination of strategic foolishness, the change 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.280 in military technology, and the sheer will of the Ukrainian 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.960 people has seen after all this time, You're absolutely right, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.760 or reversal of fortune. And it is deeply embarrassing to 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.880 Vladimir Putin that the Ukrainians are able to send drones 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.439 into Russian territory and take out things like, you know, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.960 manufacturing depots or energy sites or what have you. This 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.000 is deeply embarrassed, and this is you know, the asymmetric 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.679 kind of war that we've been hearing all about. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.800 The losses on the Russian side are enormous, enormous. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.600 No American president would be able to withstand that politically. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.320 But because Putin is a dictator and there's no feedback 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.600 loop politically, he remains in power. But if you're asking me, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.359 can he be overthrown tomorrow? The answer, quite honestly, is 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.240 I have no idea, and neither do you. And if 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.440 somebody is telling you different in the press because they 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.320 have an inside source or something, they're guessing, they're guessing. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.560 Fair enough, but quickly before I let you go. 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.439 I mean, if this is not sustainable for him and 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.600 he's left with two choices, that's capitulate slash negotiate, come 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.359 to the table, figure something out, or with his backup 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.919 against Well, David was saying, do something extreme. Which of 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.399 those directions do you think he goes? 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:49.440 Well? 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.520 I don't think he wants to be in this situation, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.440 but the humiliation of withdrawal to him would be extraordinary. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.879 He staked his entire political biography and being on the 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:06.080 idiotic and brutal war, absolutely staked upon it. And it 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.639 would not surprise me that what might bring an end 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.880 to it is mortality. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:13.720 Mortality. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.119 Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:34.920 Right after this, FIFA President Johnny and Fantino has abandoned 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.640 a controversial plan to create a commercial entity that would 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.159 have opened the door to outside investors for the World 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:46.320 Cup after facing intense opposition from key regional football bodies 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.240 and top clubs. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.120 In a statement posted by FIFA to ex Infantino said quote, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.160 having listened carefully to all the views, it's become clear 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.800 that the project has created divisions of a nature that, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.399 regardless of the level of support, are no longer in 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.800 the interest of the objective set out out in the 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.440 first place. Joonie Studs, Bloomberg Senior sports supporter Randa Williams Randall, 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.119 great to see you, and let me just start about 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.800 start with kind of how far Johnny Infantino has fallen here. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.199 He was all over the country, all over the hemisphere 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:13.440 during the World Cup. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:14.920 I we just do a story on you, like more 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:16.680 jet miles than almost anybody. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.800 Else, cruising around in that Gulf stream up for reelection 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.840 in March, enjoying quite a bit of support. Let's just 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:24.760 start with the genesis of this idea, Where did it 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.040 come from? On the heels of a fifteen billion dollar 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:28.560 World Cup? Why did you feel like this was the 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.200 moment to kind of push forward this planet's falling apart? 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.720 Well, Bloomberg previously reported that this was in progress way 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.480 before the World Cup started, And so I imagine that 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.280 Johnny and Thankina knew that this World Cup was going 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.120 to be the most successful yet in large part because 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.840 the US, Canada and Mexico has stadiums set up unlike 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.000 any other country in the world. And so he's looking 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.560 at it and saying, Okay, we're going to make more 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.600 money than we've ever made. But why don't we make 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.360 even more money than that? I have this private deal 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.520 set up. It's good for everybody. And then you a 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.000 finda cast would have stomped on that. And now he 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:03.520