Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent
Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an
Speaker 1: extraordinary show for everybody today. We're largely going to be
Speaker 1: focusing with the conflict of Israel and Iran our involvement.
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of guests here in the show.
Speaker 3: So what do we have today?
Speaker 2: Go Yeah, We're going to look at this from every angle.
Speaker 2: We're going to break down for you the very latest.
Speaker 2: There was some significant strikes inside of Israel yesterday. We'll
Speaker 2: show you some of that damage and what we can
Speaker 2: say about where we are with regard to the conflict.
Speaker 2: Very late latest in terms of statements from Trump. We're
Speaker 2: also going to have Dave Smith join us for a
Speaker 2: couple of blocks to talk about the possibility that this
Speaker 2: is not just about Iran's nuclear program, that this is
Speaker 2: in out and out regime change program. You've got a
Speaker 2: number of members of Congress, Republican members of Congress calling
Speaker 2: for precisely fat We're also going to look at the
Speaker 2: likelihood or potential that the US, which is already supporting
Speaker 2: Israel in attacking Iran, is going to get even more
Speaker 2: directly involved. So we'll try to evaluate exactly where we
Speaker 2: are with that. With Dave Smith, We're also going to
Speaker 2: be very fortunate to be joined by Dan Caldwell. Now,
Speaker 2: Dan was previously at the Pentagon under Pete Hegseth. He
Speaker 2: was pushed down under extraordinary circumstances, but he is a
Speaker 2: true insider, you know, would have a lot of insight
Speaker 2: into the conversations that were happening behind the scenes about
Speaker 2: negotiations with Iran. I want to talk to him about
Speaker 2: you know, we now have reporting that at least some
Speaker 2: of that diplomacy was effectively a ruse. How long has
Speaker 2: that been a ruse? Were they serious? About it at all,
Speaker 2: So there's a lot we want to get to. I
Speaker 2: also want to ask him about some of that internal
Speaker 2: termoi oil as much as he can tell us, while
Speaker 2: you know, he's got legal limits of what exactly he
Speaker 2: can say, but extraordinary to get to speak with him,
Speaker 2: and we're looking forward to that. We're going to take
Speaker 2: a look at some of the MAGA infighting and reaction
Speaker 2: and also have a great clip from Tim Dillan a
Speaker 2: little bit of levity.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, here, yeah, levity.
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the important things about pop
Speaker 1: culture in the year two thousand and three is that,
Speaker 1: by and large, you know, save for like the punk community,
Speaker 1: most of the American media was on the side, including
Speaker 1: pop culture, of the US War in Iraq, and it
Speaker 1: took several years for it to turn against that. So
Speaker 1: as we are on the brink of possibly our own interval,
Speaker 1: I mean we're already you know, intervening in some respects,
Speaker 1: but full on offensive interact involvement, it's important to check
Speaker 1: in with pop culture taste makers and others and get
Speaker 1: a lay of the land in this new media environment.
Speaker 1: Be like, okay, like who people are listening to, how
Speaker 1: do they feel about it? Because that's vitally important, especially
Speaker 1: because Tim, by his own admission, was an Iraq war supporter.
Speaker 1: Although I think you wes, I didn't realize, he said.
Speaker 1: I think he is like high on percocet and selling
Speaker 1: cars or something at the time. But yeah, that's Kyle's story.
Speaker 2: The two of them, Kim bond over that he was
Speaker 2: anti Iraq wars, but the high on perkset and the car.
Speaker 1: Dealership, so before we it might have been mortgages. I
Speaker 1: forget exactly before we get to that. Thank you everybody.
Speaker 1: I know that during conflict with a lot of influx,
Speaker 1: which is deeply appreciate it. So many, you know, thousands
Speaker 1: of you signed up at Breakingpoints dot com for our
Speaker 1: monthly free trial. That free trial is over. You can
Speaker 1: still join to support our show. It's what enabled you know,
Speaker 1: all of our weekend coverage and more. Team has been
Speaker 1: working literally around the clock ever since the outbreak of conflict.
Speaker 1: I anticipate that will probably be the case now for
Speaker 1: some weeks, months, years, unfortunately. So let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: update everybody on what has happened in the last seventy
Speaker 1: two hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one quick update before we jump in. One other
Speaker 2: small piece of good news. They found the suspect in
Speaker 2: Minnesota killing an attack of killing of one lawmaker attack
Speaker 2: on another lawmaker. After a multi day manhunt, they were
Speaker 2: able to apprehend him pretty close to his home. Residents
Speaker 2: saw him on a trail camera and so they were
Speaker 2: able to send in drones and locate him and apprehend him.
Speaker 2: So a little bit of good news before we jump
Speaker 2: into the war here.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: That being said, let's go ahead and put some of
Speaker 2: these images up on the screen. This is some of
Speaker 2: the fallout from attacks lobby at Israel from Iran. So
Speaker 2: these are images from inside of Israel.
Speaker 4: You can see some direct strikes here.
Speaker 2: Obviously they have iron dome and dome and other ways
Speaker 2: of intercepting some of the missile barrage, but quite a
Speaker 2: number we're able still to get through. You know, we're
Speaker 2: somewhat limited in being able to assess specifically the damage
Speaker 2: within Israel. They try to keep under wraps some of
Speaker 2: the extent of the damage. Will give you an example
Speaker 2: of that in just a moment. But while the hits
Speaker 2: inflicted on Iran appear to be much more significant, Israel
Speaker 2: has taken damage. Let's go ahead and put the next
Speaker 2: images up on the screen. These are coming from Iran specifically,
Speaker 2: a number of these are from Tehran. Over the past
Speaker 2: several days, as this war has been ongoing, Israel of
Speaker 2: course launching an aggressive, illegal, unprovoked series of strikes on
Speaker 2: Iran to kick off this war with the support of
Speaker 2: the US. Here you can see an apartment building that
Speaker 2: was targeted. We know that there were a number of
Speaker 2: assassinations both of military political leaders in Iran as well
Speaker 2: as some nuclear scientists, and you can see, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the catastrophic damage that we have quite a
Speaker 2: number of civilians who've been killed in Iran. At this point,
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and go to the next piece. As
Speaker 2: I said, the damage in Iran appears to be much
Speaker 2: more significant, both in terms of the death toll and
Speaker 2: the you know, the the damage they've been.
Speaker 4: Able to exact.
Speaker 2: However, there have been some significant strikes within Israel. Let's
Speaker 2: go ahead and take a look at Trey Ynks, the
Speaker 2: Fox News reporter, has been doing a great job on
Speaker 2: the ground there trying to cover exactly what is unfolding.
Speaker 2: Talking about one of the early strikes that hit the
Speaker 2: equivalent of Israel's Pentagon, and you'll see that there's a
Speaker 2: quick intervention from Israeli there on the scene to try
Speaker 2: to block this information from getting out.
Speaker 4: Let's take a look at that.
Speaker 5: The Iranians have responded with three waves of ballistic missiles.
Speaker 5: This is Israel's version of the Pentagon, the Kuria, and
Speaker 5: the building on this compound was.
Speaker 4: Just hit back go back base.
Speaker 5: You can understand here it's very tense at this specific
Speaker 5: location because the Iranians are now targeting the defense establishment
Speaker 5: of Israel. And so I'm gonna have my caravan pan
Speaker 5: up here to this building just across the street from Securio.
Speaker 2: And so so clearly Simon I'm not too happy about
Speaker 2: him recording there. And he's taken a lot of heat
Speaker 2: online just for being a journalist, and.
Speaker 1: They've hated him for years now, especially since October seventh,
Speaker 1: because he had the audacity to humanize some people in
Speaker 1: Gaza and speak out for Palacindi journalists. Now as usual,
Speaker 1: all he was doing was his job. When you're a
Speaker 1: wartime correspondent, what do you do? You go where we're
Speaker 1: ballistic missile falls and then you report it. But unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the Israeli government and many of its apperatics on social
Speaker 1: media have been attacking him, saying that he is providing
Speaker 1: battle damage assessments, and there has been an intense censorship
Speaker 1: regime inside of Israel for the location of those strikes.
Speaker 1: It's extraordinary just to see these images Tel Aviv, and
Speaker 1: I mean basically all of Israel has never received this
Speaker 1: level of Bob Barden from a foreign actor. I mean,
Speaker 1: even in the breakout of the sixty seven or the
Speaker 1: seventy three wars like that was obviously a very high
Speaker 1: level of conflict, but this is not something that they
Speaker 1: were seeing in the individual streets of Tel Aviv. I mean,
Speaker 1: for example, for the Pentagon their version to be hit,
Speaker 1: which is literally in a downtown civilian area, that's extraordinary
Speaker 1: to watch. You're also watching something what I think dispelled
Speaker 1: a lot of the myths around Iron Dome or David
Speaker 1: Sling or any of these other programs that they have.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, we have seen missiles rain down now
Speaker 1: on Israel multiple times. You know, I can't even keep
Speaker 1: counting the number of barrages. And this is with the
Speaker 1: massive assistance of the United States military. I've tried to
Speaker 1: highlight here that if it weren't for us, they would
Speaker 1: be getting it even way more on the Chin, and
Speaker 1: I'm still uncertain as to whether they actually underestimated Iran's capability.
Speaker 1: The propaganda machine from Israel is that they've achieved total
Speaker 1: dominance over Iranian skies. This seems to largely be true.
Speaker 1: They seem to have targeted in some pretty extraordinary both
Speaker 1: assassination operations with building drone facilities inside of Iran to
Speaker 1: target their ballistic missile stocks. And look, it's only been
Speaker 1: a couple of days, so it's very possible that Iran
Speaker 1: could exhaust all of its stocks very soon than Israel
Speaker 1: would achieve like total dominance. But you know, they have
Speaker 1: been able to punch back, I think in a way
Speaker 1: that we have literally never seen before on the streets
Speaker 1: of Israel, and that's expanding the war. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: put a four police up on the screen. This just
Speaker 1: shows some of the locations of all of these strikes,
Speaker 1: so you can see on the Israeli front, you know,
Speaker 1: you both have attacks on the natan's main nuclear Richmond
Speaker 1: facility that was attacked on Friday. You've seen huge attacks
Speaker 1: all across of Tehran, both targeted assassination strikes. That's what
Speaker 1: a lot of those apartment building ones were from what
Speaker 1: we can tell, is hitting the penthouse suites of a
Speaker 1: lot of the top IRGC officials. Famously, they also hit
Speaker 1: a bunker where there were all of these IRGC top
Speaker 1: intelligence officials and commanders that were there. Many of those
Speaker 1: deaths have been confirmed by the Iranian authorities. The Tabriz
Speaker 1: nuclear facility has also been hit as of Friday, and
Speaker 1: I believe there have been strikes in the Foidoh facility
Speaker 1: as well. Another thing that everybody needs to keep in
Speaker 1: mind here the battle damage assessments and the battle damage
Speaker 1: denials by the Iranians and the Israelis. Neither are two believed.
Speaker 1: We have no actual really idea about the facilities that
Speaker 1: have been hit in their capabilities. We have a little
Speaker 1: bit in terms of what the IAEA has been able
Speaker 1: to report to us, but of course, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't have the same view that the Iranians and or
Speaker 1: the Israelis would have. So I really want to caution
Speaker 1: everyone because initially, in the opening hours of the war
Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, this is total Israeli victory,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you see Tel Aviv.
Speaker 1: You have tel Aviv's civilians literally hiding in a bunker
Speaker 1: watching downtown Tel Aviv taking strikes. I mean, can people
Speaker 1: imagine I live only a few miles from the Pentagon.
Speaker 1: If the area in between my house and there is
Speaker 1: taking ballistic missiles to the street, sure not that many
Speaker 1: people are dying. Cars are getting blown up, people's houses,
Speaker 1: They're getting dug out of the rubble. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is insanity if you are living in Israel. Ye.
Speaker 4: And I mean where we are right now, is this
Speaker 4: a few miles literally?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean right here as well. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we're probably going to the US capital. So similarly, as
Speaker 1: we've seen multiple Israeli strikes on the top echelons of
Speaker 1: the government. And that's the final myth that I would
Speaker 1: like to dispel, is that while yes, there have been
Speaker 1: strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities, a huge portion of Israeli
Speaker 1: kinetic activity has been targeted at the top echelons of
Speaker 1: the Iranian regime, at the IRGC command center, but also
Speaker 1: many of the political leaders, including the top negotiator who
Speaker 1: was negotiating with the United States on some sort of
Speaker 1: Iranian deal. And we're going to talk with Dave about
Speaker 1: how regime change is the real goal of this war,
Speaker 1: which is something that we see consistently now in Israeli messaging,
Speaker 1: in Israeli action. But these are just the opening strikes,
Speaker 1: and we really can begin to get a site of
Speaker 1: where we are going. This is going to be a
Speaker 1: long campaign. By the Israeli's own admission, they have said
Speaker 1: that this is going to take weeks, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of their operation, they're claiming that they expected to
Speaker 1: take actually much more damage than this. Again, I'm not
Speaker 1: quite sure if I believe them in terms of the
Speaker 1: casualty count. We were trying to reconcile it this morning, Crystal,
Speaker 1: but we're not one hundred percent sure exactly where things
Speaker 1: are right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this is the latest numbers for the New York Times.
Speaker 2: Best we know this more. They say Israeli strikes have
Speaker 2: killed at least two hundred and twenty four people in Iran.
Speaker 2: According to the iranians are predominantly civilians. The number I
Speaker 2: saw was ninety percent civilians injured more than fourteen hundred people.
Speaker 4: In Israel.
Speaker 2: At least twenty four people identified as civilians have been
Speaker 2: killed in retaliatory barrages, with roughly six hundred injured. So
Speaker 2: you see much higher death toll being taken on the
Speaker 2: Iranian side. But to Sagar's point, you know, the images
Speaker 2: of destruction in central Israel, in Tel Aviv are extraordinary,
Speaker 2: And did the Israelis expect the Iranians to be able
Speaker 2: to exact this sort of price? I have no idea,
Speaker 2: but I mean, we do know that Natan yahoo and
Speaker 2: the successive Israeli governments have been willing to sacrifice their
Speaker 2: own citizens behalf of whatever larger or self interested goal
Speaker 2: that they are pursuing. So it is entirely possible that
Speaker 2: they did expect Iran to be able to respond.
Speaker 4: You know, this goes back to you guys.
Speaker 2: Will recall we covered it extensively here, the Iranian provocations previously,
Speaker 2: including an assassination directly on uh Iranian soil, and the
Speaker 2: Iranian retaliation, which by all accounts was telegraphed to the US.
Speaker 2: We assisted in defending Israel because we that's what we do,
Speaker 2: we always do, and they you know, there was some
Speaker 2: minimal damage that was exacted during that those retaliatory strikes,
Speaker 2: and so I don't know if there was an assessment
Speaker 2: made of basically like, oh, well, this is all they've got,
Speaker 2: But our analysis at the time was very much that
Speaker 2: this was a sort of you know, a demonstration, almost performative,
Speaker 2: because they didn't want to spark a broader conflict or
Speaker 2: a wider conflict. I mean strategically that may have been
Speaker 2: an error. Iran has taken a number of blows, especially
Speaker 2: not only in that exchange, but also you know, with
Speaker 2: the the destruction of Hezbola, then you know, intense attacks
Speaker 2: on has and some of their other proxies. That has
Speaker 2: been a blow to Iran. And now Israel talks about
Speaker 2: this octopus strategy. Now they're quote unquote going after the head.
Speaker 2: What I've been reading is that the Israelis are under
Speaker 2: no illusion that they alone without the US getting directly involved.
Speaker 2: And again I really want to be clear, we are
Speaker 2: already involved, have been involved. We're involved in the sutterfuge campaign,
Speaker 2: the deception to enable this entire attack. It is our
Speaker 2: missiles that are being sent here. We are providing extensive
Speaker 2: defense and we'll talk more about that. But the question now,
Speaker 2: so the question isn't are we involved. We're involved, right,
Speaker 2: we are involved. The Iranian cs is being involved. Everybody
Speaker 2: sees US as being involved. Trump acknowledges that were involved,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Question now is do we become even more
Speaker 2: directly involved. The Israeli seem to know they can't number one,
Speaker 2: destroy the nuclear program within our direct involvement. I do
Speaker 2: think the nuclear program, I mean this is a bit
Speaker 2: of like a cover. It's a bit of an excuse,
Speaker 2: a protextual excuse for effectuating what.
Speaker 4: They really want, which is regime change.
Speaker 2: And make no doubt about it when you look at
Speaker 2: the targets of these strikes and the way that they
Speaker 2: are going about this today. Now they're going more aggressively
Speaker 2: after the overall energy infrastructure, the oil and gas infrastructure,
Speaker 2: so attempting to cripple the entire economy. They've taken out
Speaker 2: significant political and military leadership. This is driving at regime change,
Speaker 2: and I think they have an understanding there too that
Speaker 2: that also will not occur without getting the US fully
Speaker 2: fully involved. And so no secret to anyone who watches
Speaker 2: this show or has their eyes open and are paying
Speaker 2: attention that that is exactly what BB NAT Yahoo ultimately wants.
Speaker 2: Here to the point of the fact that we've got
Speaker 2: more energy infrastructure being hit at this point, we've got
Speaker 2: another Tree Yanks report about where we are and what
Speaker 2: the Israelis are planning as best we know to do next.
Speaker 5: What we are seeing today Israel has never faced in
Speaker 5: Israeli officials tell us they are fighting for their survival.
Speaker 5: You raise an important point. This is a shared gas field.
Speaker 5: It's the largest field in the world, and on the
Speaker 5: Iranian side. It starts near to the city of bandar
Speaker 5: Abas in the south, but it goes over and the
Speaker 5: Qataris and the Americans are invested in the other side
Speaker 5: of the gas field.
Speaker 1: And I spoke with.
Speaker 5: A source who described the Israelis strike against that as
Speaker 5: a dangerous escalation because there is concern that if ultimately
Speaker 5: that gas field is targeted and the Iranians start to
Speaker 5: respond in the region, that American interests and assets could
Speaker 5: be hit or affected, and it could lead to an
Speaker 5: increase in energy prices. It could lead to American forces
Speaker 5: or embassies in the region coming under attack. And so
Speaker 5: there are certainly officials in this part of the world
Speaker 5: that are concerned about the location of these strikes. But
Speaker 5: the bottom line here is that the Israelis understand the
Speaker 5: next step up on the escalation ladder for them is
Speaker 5: going after the energy infrastructure in Iran.
Speaker 2: And we're already seeing some of that energy infrastructure targeted
Speaker 2: oil bribe and checked this morning, but oil prices are
Speaker 2: already shooting out. Prepare for that to be another story.
Speaker 2: That's important to take it. Pay a lot, take a
Speaker 2: look at Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: Right, you can. You can blame Donald Trump and bb
Speaker 1: net and Yahoo for that one whenever you're paying more
Speaker 1: at the gas pump. Already just this morning from the
Speaker 1: Israeli Ministry of Defense, this is breaking as of this morning. Quote,
Speaker 1: the residents of Tehran will pay the price and soon
Speaker 1: because the arrogant dictator from Tehran has become a cowardly
Speaker 1: murderer who fires targetedge shots at the civilian home front
Speaker 1: in Israel to deter the idea from continuing the attack
Speaker 1: that is collapsing its capabilities. I will say, look, I
Speaker 1: don't celebrate the attacks on any civilians. I have friends
Speaker 1: who live in Tel Aviv in Israel I literally am
Speaker 1: I'm so worried about them. But it's a little, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a little on the nose to be talking about
Speaker 1: civilian attacks and civilian infrastructure hits from the head of
Speaker 1: the Israeli military. However, look, what we do know, as
Speaker 1: you said, is that the damage on Iran. I don't
Speaker 1: want anyone to take away from this at Israel has
Speaker 1: taken more damage. No, they've taken more damage than most
Speaker 1: people expected for a massively militarized Western nation with the
Speaker 1: full support of the Western Empire. But you know, Iran
Speaker 1: has been taking an absolute beating here. They have hundreds
Speaker 1: of civilians and or military leaders that have been killed.
Speaker 1: Of course it's always difficult to know which, but you
Speaker 1: know the idea that, especially with their air defense, as
Speaker 1: to where it is right now, they're trying and they
Speaker 1: have some capability, but they have not you know, the
Speaker 1: Israelis are claiming total air superiority. If they want to
Speaker 1: start leveling massive you know, neighborhoods in Tehran, it's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: and it will, unfortunately very happen, likely very quickly. Last thing, also,
Speaker 1: just to show everybody the level of penetration the Israelis
Speaker 1: have inside of Tehran, can we go ahead and play
Speaker 1: a eight please and show people this. This is flagged
Speaker 1: by friend of our show, Trita Parsi. Do you actually
Speaker 1: have car bombs that were being set off around downtown Tehran?
Speaker 1: Treta Parsi says, this is quote literally the definition of terrorism.
Speaker 1: A lot of it are targeted assassinations. There's been stories
Speaker 1: of this probably for the last decade or so, right
Speaker 1: of his real Iranian nuclear scientists getting into their car
Speaker 1: only for it to explode. But the level of penetration,
Speaker 1: obviously that Mosad had in the IRGC is unbelievable. I mean,
Speaker 1: at just from a fear like craft perspective, They're able
Speaker 1: to build a drone facility and all in there, and
Speaker 1: this was a lot of this was being pumped out
Speaker 1: into the sphere in the immediate times of the war.
Speaker 1: But that's part of why I found the strikes on
Speaker 1: Tel Aviv so amazing just to the eye, because the
Speaker 1: way they had been talking, it was like, oh, they
Speaker 1: wiped out their entire ballistic missile capability, and then I
Speaker 1: don't know, hours later, downtown tel Aviv Pentagon is taking
Speaker 1: a hit by a ballistic missile. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: think that's absolutely crazy. They continue these really strikes on
Speaker 1: a lot of Iranian capability to defend itself with these
Speaker 1: ballistic missiles. Will continue to see. Iran still has quite
Speaker 1: a bit stockpile, a couple thousand. I was just last
Speaker 1: flag year in terms of the United States, the US
Speaker 1: THAD batteries, these missile defense batteries have been pounding Iranian
Speaker 1: missiles just so everybody knows we can. We produced here
Speaker 1: in the United States about twelve to fifteen a year.
Speaker 1: That's about how long it takes.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, not unlimited supply.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's actually the opposite. Y, it's the ultimate limited supply.
Speaker 1: So hope some shit doesn't happen somewhere else. That's actually
Speaker 1: pretty important to the United States. But we'll talk about
Speaker 1: that in a little bit later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, Iran is a giant country, the
Speaker 2: population of Israel, and this is an existential fight. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any I don't think they have
Speaker 2: any illusions about the goals here being complete regime change,
Speaker 2: turning them into you know, a failed state a La
Speaker 2: Syria or you know, or Libya or one of the
Speaker 2: other you know places where we had our foreign adventures
Speaker 2: in the Middle East before. And it just seems like
Speaker 2: we ever freaking learn, Like we never learn. I see
Speaker 2: the same level of triumphalism of like this is going
Speaker 2: to be so easy. Yep, you might as well put
Speaker 2: up the freaking mission accomplished banner like the the I
Speaker 2: am getting so many flashbacks to the run up and
Speaker 2: the build up to the Iraq War. And one of
Speaker 2: the crazy things to me here is that they didn't
Speaker 2: even like, really do a full sale propaganda pitch before
Speaker 2: just going all in and expecting, you know, expecting us,
Speaker 2: the American people to be down for another forever war
Speaker 2: against a country that has vastly more size and capabilities
Speaker 2: than Iraq ever did. So, you know, that's that's where
Speaker 2: we are. And I think there's a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of uncertainty about where things go. So next,
Speaker 2: Trump of course, has been all over the map in
Speaker 2: terms of what he has been saying. Actually, let's go
Speaker 2: ahead real quick before we bring Dave Smith and go
Speaker 2: back to A six, and we can put some of
Speaker 2: the Trump comments up on the screen, because I think
Speaker 2: this is important. You know, First, he was very triumphant
Speaker 2: like triumphalists, saying, two months ago I gave Iran a
Speaker 2: sixty day ultimatum to make a deal. They should have
Speaker 2: done it. Today is day sixty one. I told them
Speaker 2: what to do. They just couldn't get there. Now they
Speaker 2: have perhaps a second chance. Another commentary, he was saying that,
Speaker 2: you know, the people, he was bragging about the fact
Speaker 2: that the people they were negotiating with are now dead,
Speaker 2: so taking absolute credit being delighted by the outcome year
Speaker 2: and making it quite clear how involved we were in
Speaker 2: the strikes. And then we have other comments from him
Speaker 2: as well as put the next one up on the screen.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 2: Now he's saying Iran and Israel should make a deal
Speaker 2: and will make a deal, just like I got Indian
Speaker 2: Pakistan to make. I mean, if you think that is
Speaker 2: going to be easy, you're an absolute fool. At this point,
Speaker 2: let's put the next one up on the screen. You
Speaker 2: have him saying, now the US had nothing to do
Speaker 2: with the attack on Iran tonight, like you already said, oh,
Speaker 2: this was day sixty one and that's why this was happening.
Speaker 2: Now you already celebrated it, and now you want to
Speaker 2: pretend like you had nothing to do with it. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and the next take a look at
Speaker 2: the next thing.
Speaker 4: He had a call with President Putin.
Speaker 2: He said, he called this morning to very nicely wish
Speaker 2: me a happy birthday and more importantly talk about Iran.
Speaker 2: We talked at length. Much less time was spent talking
Speaker 2: about Russia Ukraine. That'll be for next week. He's doing
Speaker 2: the planned prisoner swaps. The call lasted an hour. He feels,
Speaker 2: as I do, this war in Israel and Iran should end,
Speaker 2: to which I explained his war should also and Sager
Speaker 2: before we get to to Dave Smith. I mean, it
Speaker 2: looks like there are two possible outcomes here. One is
Speaker 2: Trump forces this to stop, which of course he has
Speaker 2: the capability to. Hey, we're not going to protect you.
Speaker 2: You're going to have to actually bear the consequences Israel if.
Speaker 1: You're at I know, not only that, and we're not
Speaker 1: going to sell you the munition We're not going to see.
Speaker 1: By Trump's own admission, there are bombs, as he bragged
Speaker 1: about in his truth social posts, just so everybody knows exactly.
Speaker 1: They don't make any bad missile defense system in Israel.
Speaker 1: How's your David Sling working out for you? If it
Speaker 1: weren't for the full force of the US Empire, Tel
Speaker 1: Aviv would be freaking rocked way more than it is
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: So he either makes this end or we're getting pulled in.
Speaker 2: I mean, those are the those are the two directions
Speaker 2: that we could go in. So With that being said,
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and bring in Dave Smith to get
Speaker 2: his reaction to the latest.
Speaker 1: We're very excited now to be joined by friend of
Speaker 1: the show, Dave Smith. We're going to be talking about
Speaker 1: the fallout here from the US involvement in the war
Speaker 1: between Israel and Iran. But most importantly we want to
Speaker 1: get to the actual goal here of the Israeli military campaign.
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu really giving the game away yesterday
Speaker 1: in an interview with Fox News where he calls for
Speaker 1: regime change with Iran. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 3: So is regime change part of the effort here?
Speaker 6: Could certainly be the result because the Iran regime is
Speaker 6: very weak. I think it's basically left with two things.
Speaker 6: It's plans to have atomic bombs and ballistic missiles. That's
Speaker 6: basically what Iran has. They certainly don't have the peap
Speaker 6: eighty percent of the people will throw these theological thugs out.
Speaker 6: I mean they murder them, they oppress them for forty
Speaker 6: six years. They've yearned for freedom. I mean they shoot
Speaker 6: women because their hair is uncovered, they shoot students. They
Speaker 6: just suck the oxygen from this brave and gifted people,
Speaker 6: the Iranian people.
Speaker 7: I want to talk about the nuclear threat and I
Speaker 7: want to talk about President Trump. You just said Iron
Speaker 7: tried to assassinate President Trump twice. Do you have intel
Speaker 7: that the assassination attempts on President Trump were directly from Iran.
Speaker 6: Through proxies, Yes, through their intel. Yes, they want to
Speaker 6: kill and look, he's enemy number one. He's a decisive leader.
Speaker 6: He never took the path that others took to try
Speaker 6: to bargain with them in a way that is weak,
Speaker 6: giving them, giving them basically a pathway to a rich uranium,
Speaker 6: which means a pathway to the bomb, patting it with
Speaker 6: billions and billions of dollars. He took up his fake
Speaker 6: agreement and basically tore it up. He killed the cast
Speaker 6: suler money. He said, made it very clear, including now
Speaker 6: you cannot have a nuclear weapon, which means you cannot
Speaker 6: en which he's been very forceful. So for them, he's
Speaker 6: he's enemy number one. Yeah, look there who tried to
Speaker 6: kill me. But I'm his junior partner. You understand that
Speaker 6: President Trump is a great threat to Ron's plans to
Speaker 6: weaponize nuclear weapons and use them.
Speaker 7: When did you tell President Trump you were going to
Speaker 7: launch these strikes.
Speaker 6: Look, I've been in contents, in constant contact with President Trump.
Speaker 6: We've known each other for many years, and obviously we
Speaker 6: informed our American friends and President Trump, our great friend,
Speaker 6: ahead of time. Did he knew about it, of course.
Speaker 7: I mean there were reports that President Trump kind of
Speaker 7: helped you achieve your strategic surprise by publica or urging
Speaker 7: you not to attack when he already knew you had
Speaker 7: decided to do it. So you were closely coordinating with
Speaker 7: the US throughout this process.
Speaker 6: Look, we're fully coordinated. But understand that America under President
Speaker 6: Trump will make President Trump will make the decisions that
Speaker 6: are best for America. And that's the way it is.
Speaker 6: He understands that I, as the Prime Minister of Israel,
Speaker 6: the one and only Jewish state, must make the decisions
Speaker 6: that are important for the survival of my country, and
Speaker 6: he will do what is best for America. That is
Speaker 6: a relationship of mutual respect and mutual confidence.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much going on there, Dave. There
Speaker 1: is regime change. There is the flattery and the lies
Speaker 1: potentially about this some so called Iranian plot to assassinate Trump.
Speaker 1: And then finally there there is the you know, really
Speaker 1: buttering it up, but calling Trump to join him in
Speaker 1: this war on regime, just broadly, we want to give
Speaker 1: you the floor both to react to that and to
Speaker 1: the entire situation here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know, it's just you.
Speaker 8: You're allowed to throw as many lies at the wall
Speaker 8: as you want to when you're selling a war, so
Speaker 8: that you know there's there's a lot there to kind
Speaker 8: of unpack.
Speaker 3: Number one, I would just say, first of the accusation.
Speaker 8: That Iran was trying to assassinate Donald Trump just doesn't
Speaker 8: meet the most basic of smell tests. I like, so
Speaker 8: you're telling me that the Iranian regime essentially declared war
Speaker 8: on the United States of America, already tried to murder
Speaker 8: the sitting president, and yet his response was to try
Speaker 8: to negotiate with them for a couple months until finally
Speaker 8: we had Israel attack. Though, does that make sense to anybody?
Speaker 8: They tried to murder Donald Trump and then he entered
Speaker 8: negotiations with the Come on, it's too ridiculous, and you know,
Speaker 8: you could go back. You know, the thing about Saddam
Speaker 8: Hussein that a lot of people kind of forget in
Speaker 8: history is that it is true that at one point
Speaker 8: Saddam Hussein did have what you could call weapons of
Speaker 8: mass destruction. He used chemical weapons in his nineteen eighty
Speaker 8: through nineteen eighty six war with Iran and was supported
Speaker 8: by the United States.
Speaker 3: Of America while he did it.
Speaker 8: He then got rid of those weapons programs and the
Speaker 8: neo cons and Benjamin Netanyahu himself you can read in
Speaker 8: his writing in the nineties when he was telling us
Speaker 8: that Iran was a few years away from a nuclear weapon,
Speaker 8: all the way back then, but he was also saying
Speaker 8: that they wanted to overthrow Saddam Hussein for other reasons
Speaker 8: for their Clean Break strategy. You could read about this
Speaker 8: in the Project for a New American Century in the
Speaker 8: Clean Break Memo written by Richard Pearl and David Wormsar.
Speaker 8: They talked about this over and over and over again,
Speaker 8: and then after nine to eleven they said, the issue
Speaker 8: here is weapons of mass destruction, but that was they
Speaker 8: always wanted the regime change, and so it's the same
Speaker 8: thing again. The goal here has been regime change in Iran.
Speaker 8: He's been open about this, he even admitted it a
Speaker 8: little bit there.
Speaker 3: But let's just.
Speaker 8: Take them Look, let's just really assess the situation where
Speaker 8: we are right now, Let's take them by their own logic.
Speaker 8: If as all the Hawks are bragging right now or
Speaker 8: saying that essentially Israel was already at war with Iran
Speaker 8: because Iran attacked first on October seventh, they are proxies
Speaker 8: attacked And.
Speaker 3: What does that mean? You know?
Speaker 8: It's like when they say Iran is the number one
Speaker 8: sponsor of terror? Do they ever have to back that
Speaker 8: up with data? Do they ever? Like have you ever
Speaker 8: heard one warhawk who makes the claim that Iran is
Speaker 8: the number one sponsor of terror?
Speaker 3: Ever?
Speaker 8: Like, show you look, this is how much terrorists have
Speaker 8: gotten support from Saudi and this is how much more
Speaker 8: they've gotten from Iran. No, they never even feel the
Speaker 8: need to make this argument. Compare how much money the
Speaker 8: US has given to terrorist organizations, or Israel has given
Speaker 8: to terrorist organizations, or Israel has facilitated other countries given like,
Speaker 8: there's no objective standard here. But if essentially the standard
Speaker 8: is because Iran has given Hamas some weapons in the past,
Speaker 8: therefore they're a proxy and therefore when they attack Israel
Speaker 8: on October seventh, Iran has attacked Israel, Well, then what
Speaker 8: is Israel attacking Iran other than the US proxy attacking Iran, right,
Speaker 8: if that's not I mean, and come.
Speaker 4: On and look, this is proxy state.
Speaker 1: Yeah, same with Ukraine and Russia. It's the sameanization.
Speaker 8: So if you're but this one is so much more
Speaker 8: devastating because it's not just that we give Israel the
Speaker 8: weapons and the money and the intelligence.
Speaker 3: But at the very least.
Speaker 8: Here, I mean, we had people, We had evacuation orders
Speaker 8: twenty four to forty eight hours before the attack came.
Speaker 8: Donald Trump is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Speaker 8: Netanyahu here is clearly saying that Donald Trump knew this
Speaker 8: attack was coming. So imagine, imagine they had that on
Speaker 8: around with October seventh. They don't have anything close to that.
Speaker 8: So make no mistake about it. We are at war
Speaker 8: with Around right now. The United States of America is
Speaker 8: Donald Trump has betrayed MAGA, betrayed America.
Speaker 3: First.
Speaker 8: He has made the most disastrous decision to lead America
Speaker 8: into another war. Now, if they want to say that,
Speaker 8: look there is an argument here. I suppose that perhaps
Speaker 8: Around is a better candidate for a regime change than
Speaker 8: Iraq or Libya was. This is the argument they're going
Speaker 8: to make. It seems a much more compelling argument that
Speaker 8: we're staring at yet another disaster. And as you were
Speaker 8: pointing out, Crystal, you know, I heard a little bit
Speaker 8: of your segment as I was waiting here, as you
Speaker 8: were pointing out, which I think is really the most
Speaker 8: important point is that this is the celebrating. It's just
Speaker 8: like unbelievable. It's twenty four hours into it. They're all
Speaker 8: celebrating how easy this was.
Speaker 3: Look. I remember I was a little kid at the time,
Speaker 3: but I.
Speaker 8: Do vividly remember the celebrations after the Gulf War in
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety one, and they were like, look how easy
Speaker 8: that was, and we didn't take any losses. We went
Speaker 8: on to be bogged down in that country for thirty
Speaker 8: years following that war. We all remember the mission accomplishment.
Speaker 8: We all remember Hillary Clinton saying we came, we saw
Speaker 8: he's dead. A few years later, when she was running
Speaker 8: for president, she wouldn't dare bring up Libya because it
Speaker 8: was so obviously a colossal failure. So the people celebrating
Speaker 8: this right now are just they've lost their minds.
Speaker 3: And people get swept up in war.
Speaker 2: Fever, the flashbacks, the WMD talk, the like celebratory mission accomplished,
Speaker 2: vibe the you know in that clip with Boebe. And
Speaker 2: I've heard so many others say this, they they're yearning
Speaker 2: for freedom. I mean, it's just like it makes me
Speaker 2: feel well, like as everybody just erased their memories of
Speaker 2: what happened here.
Speaker 4: It's utterly insane to me.
Speaker 2: And to your point about our involvement, let's put this
Speaker 2: next piece up on the screen. We now know that
Speaker 2: at least the re sent discussions about you know, diplomatic negotiations,
Speaker 2: and hey, we're going forward with these talks. This weekend
Speaker 2: was a ruse to provide cover and the element of
Speaker 2: surprise for the Israelis. So now you have this report.
Speaker 2: A US official confirmed to me over the weekend Israel
Speaker 2: had an operational window to assassinate around Supreme Leader comedy,
Speaker 2: but President Trump made it clear he is against such
Speaker 2: a move. This was first reported by Steve Holland there
Speaker 2: is no reason for anyone US, the Iranians, anyone to
Speaker 2: believe these reports.
Speaker 4: I mean, it does give me also remind.
Speaker 2: Me of you know, during the Biden Oh, they're very
Speaker 2: upset with na Yahoo leaking to always Barock Revie.
Speaker 4: They're very upset with him, etcetera. Etcetera.
Speaker 2: Why would anyone ever believe a word that comes from
Speaker 2: Trump or Steve Wikoff or anyone else associated with this
Speaker 2: administration after they've gloated about the fact that they were
Speaker 2: using diplomatic negotiations as a tool to effectuate to help
Speaker 2: kick off this war. I mean, I'm stems, I'm curious
Speaker 2: your thoughts about this, Dave. I've seen this analysis that
Speaker 2: Trump was persuayted this might be, that this might be true,
Speaker 2: was persuaded by Beebe that he would have a better
Speaker 2: hand going into negotiations with Iran if he let Israel
Speaker 2: start this war and participated, as we've indicated, in starting
Speaker 2: this war. That is the most that is the most idiotic,
Speaker 2: insane possible analysis I can imagine. I guess it's possible
Speaker 2: that he really is that absolutely idiotic. But you know,
Speaker 2: what do you make of that? Is that really what
Speaker 2: happened here? And what do you make of this report
Speaker 2: that supposedly, oh, he was the cooler head and said
Speaker 2: you can't you can't take out the supreme leader.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'd say Trump might be that idiotic.
Speaker 8: And you know he he has again we're kind of
Speaker 8: speculating here, but he has bragged in the past several
Speaker 8: times about how he's so smart for keeping these hawks
Speaker 8: around because then that puts all these pressure on people
Speaker 8: to come to the negotiating.
Speaker 4: Table that he had John Bolton, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: His example was John Bolton, who killed the deal with
Speaker 8: North Korea. Like that was his example of it being
Speaker 8: like such a stunning success or something like that. It's
Speaker 8: it reminds me of like when people brag about the
Speaker 8: Abraham Accords and what a success they were, and you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 8: they worked out so great. They led to this, Like
Speaker 8: how I don't even understand how you could You know,
Speaker 8: it would be one thing if peace swept the Middle
Speaker 8: East after the Abraham Accords and you go, oh, okay,
Speaker 8: maybe they played a role. But it's been a nightmare
Speaker 8: all across, the worst fighting that we've had there in
Speaker 8: twenty years and so since our last disastrous invasions. But so,
Speaker 8: you know, look, I mean there, it seems to me
Speaker 8: like there's a there's a couple possibilities here.
Speaker 3: None of them are good.
Speaker 8: One of the possibility is that which I think is
Speaker 8: plausibly the case that Israel betrayed Donald Trump and and
Speaker 8: then this is just his best way to deal with it, Like, essentially,
Speaker 8: Donald Trump was trying to negotiate and then Israel just
Speaker 8: went ahead and launched the attack anyway, and then as
Speaker 8: a response to that, Donald Trump would rather look strong
Speaker 8: and go no, no, no.
Speaker 3: I was in on it. It was our play all along.
Speaker 8: Or the other possibility, which I think is more likely,
Speaker 8: is that he was never negotiating in good faith and
Speaker 8: it was a distraction and Donald Trump was in on it.
Speaker 8: Either way, were at the same place, you know. Either way,
Speaker 8: even if Donald Trump was betrayed by the Israelis and
Speaker 8: then just took their side in public, which has happened
Speaker 8: with different presidencies over the years. It's certainly happened with
Speaker 8: Bill Clinton after Camp David, So.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's the case.
Speaker 8: But then either way, then you're just so weak and
Speaker 8: pathetic that even after the Israel Israelis betray you, you'll
Speaker 8: still come out and catch their back and support them
Speaker 8: in this war. Well that's just as bad from the
Speaker 8: Iranian perspective and from any reasonable person's perspective.
Speaker 3: So, you know, we don't know.
Speaker 8: We'll probably find out more about this over time, but
Speaker 8: either way, in effect, it's the same thing, you know,
Speaker 8: like and then we're left in the position where you're
Speaker 8: supposed to sit here and justify a sneak, a sneak
Speaker 8: aggressive preemptive attack, like somehow you're supposed to feel like
Speaker 8: you're the good guys in an absolute war of choice
Speaker 8: against a country that does not have nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3: Let's get real here.
Speaker 8: The only country in the Middle East who secretly has
Speaker 8: nuclear weapons is Israel. Iran is a member of the
Speaker 8: Non Proliferation Treaty. Israel is not, and they have nuclear
Speaker 8: weapons is an unbelievabation.
Speaker 2: Attacking six, like six of their neighbors as we speak,
Speaker 2: and are not part of the non Proliferation jack Yet
Speaker 2: we actually have cool with that.
Speaker 1: We have a non compliant nuclear member of the NPT
Speaker 1: actually attacking a member of the NPT who is far
Speaker 1: more incompliance which said international treaty. Hey, whatever, what do
Speaker 1: I know? Right? You know what's even crazier to me, Dave,
Speaker 1: is just like the lead up to the war in Iraq,
Speaker 1: we already have our Auchmentoaloby. I actually can't believe it,
Speaker 1: but or our nineteen fifty three Operation Ajax. Let's go
Speaker 1: and put B four please up on the screen. We
Speaker 1: actually have members of the Israeli government who are tweeting
Speaker 1: out pictures of the sun of the Shah of Iran,
Speaker 1: you know, basically insinuating that they are going to re
Speaker 1: implement the monarchy on the people of Iran. It's like
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three all over again. And or just like this,
Speaker 1: you know, fascination with these Western figures who've lived here
Speaker 1: what for their entire lives. Almost at this point we're like, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: these guys, because we're buddies and they agree with us,
Speaker 1: the people of Iran will totally take to that, and
Speaker 1: we're going to implement this new regime. They're not even
Speaker 1: being subtle about it. Like I said, there's are literally
Speaker 1: members of the Israeli government who are teasing basically the
Speaker 1: restoration of the monarchy in Iran by force. It's it's
Speaker 1: like two thousand and three all over again, where we
Speaker 1: have this buddy buddy here, like you said, with the
Speaker 1: neo cons in Washington, and then this theory that we
Speaker 1: can just go in blow out the regime and then
Speaker 1: we're going to implement this new style of government. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is as naked as it gets in my opinion
Speaker 1: on all of this, and I just I want you
Speaker 1: to just go through, perhaps because you're so well read
Speaker 1: on the history of these, you know, these attempts by
Speaker 1: the United States and others to install these types of figures,
Speaker 1: and it never ever works out. Whenn't we ever back
Speaker 1: the right horse in the Middle Ages?
Speaker 8: Yeah, And of course, look, installing the Shaw to begin
Speaker 8: with in nineteen fifty three is a huge part of
Speaker 8: the reason why we have the current government in Aroan
Speaker 8: that we have, which is a horrible, repressive government that
Speaker 8: does not give their people liberty. And we should all
Speaker 8: you know, oppose that. But the thing is that war
Speaker 8: is so much worse. You know, it's like Saddam Hussein
Speaker 8: was a brutal, oppressive dictator also, but the worst thing
Speaker 8: that ever happened to the people of Iraq was George W.
Speaker 8: Bush invading the country. And you know, the only examples
Speaker 8: that people look to, which are you know, rather remarkable
Speaker 8: examples of regime change are Germany and Japan and how
Speaker 8: they were brought back into the you know, liberal international
Speaker 8: order after World War Two. But what was required in
Speaker 8: order to get to that point was was a clear
Speaker 8: war on the civilian population with you know, millions of casualties,
Speaker 8: and that like if your if your argument is we
Speaker 8: should bring that to Iran, that don't tell me one
Speaker 8: word about how you care about how the people of
Speaker 8: Iran are being oppressed, because that's a far worse, you know,
Speaker 8: level of oppression. And so you know, this is again,
Speaker 8: as you guys have touched on, this is always how
Speaker 8: they talk at the beginning of these wars. It's always
Speaker 8: that democracy will sweep the region and that the people
Speaker 8: will greet us as liberators. It'll be easy, paid for
Speaker 8: an oil, all all this stuff. But you know you're
Speaker 8: going to sit here and tell me about how Washington
Speaker 8: d C. Or Tel Aviv can you know, reorchestrate another
Speaker 8: society can reconstruct it from the ground and choose its leaderships.
Speaker 8: I mean, just think about the hubris involved in that.
Speaker 8: As the late great Harry Brown used to point out
Speaker 8: when he was talking about the war on drugs in
Speaker 8: the United States of America, the US federal government can't
Speaker 8: even keep drugs out of federal prisons.
Speaker 3: Washington d C.
Speaker 8: Can't even solve the violent crime problem in Washington, d C.
Speaker 8: But you're telling me we're going to install the new
Speaker 8: leader for the Iranians and the people will comply because
Speaker 8: what because the regime is so weak and the people
Speaker 8: want liberty so much. This regime has ruled since nineteen
Speaker 8: seventy nine, with the most powerful governments in the world
Speaker 8: opposing them, working on their unousting them the entire time,
Speaker 8: and they've still stayed in power. So you could tell
Speaker 8: me a nice story. It's easy to write down a
Speaker 8: nice story. Oh yeah, I say, we intervene and then
Speaker 8: we put the Shaw's sun back in and then everything
Speaker 8: works out. Fine, Okay, let's see that happen. And you
Speaker 8: know the other thing that I'll add And I don't know,
Speaker 8: I mean, maybe things have changed to some degree. I
Speaker 8: certainly Israel was able to pull off that drone attack,
Speaker 8: which I don't think they would have been able to
Speaker 8: pull off in years past. But it was in two
Speaker 8: thousand and seven that the Pentagon told George W. Bush
Speaker 8: that we cannot go to war with a rand because
Speaker 8: we do not have escalation dominance against them, essentially meaning
Speaker 8: that they can hit all of our bases and embassies
Speaker 8: in the region and we are very vulnerable to them.
Speaker 3: And we've already.
Speaker 8: Seen demonstrated since the Israeli attack that the Iranian the
Speaker 8: missiles that they send last year toward Israel. As many
Speaker 8: of US guests, that wasn't really their best. They were
Speaker 8: intentionally making an attack that wouldn't really hurt anybody, that
Speaker 8: wouldn't really lead to a war, which Iran has done
Speaker 8: over and over again. But now we've pushed them to
Speaker 8: the point where they probably don't feel that they have
Speaker 8: the option not to respond. And Donald Trump telling him
Speaker 8: to come back to the negotiating table now as a joke.
Speaker 8: I mean, what an impotent leader to be sitting there
Speaker 8: talking about coming back to the negotiating table. It's like
Speaker 8: sitting after Pearl Harbor and telling FDR, now's the time
Speaker 8: to go negotiate with the Japanese. Negotiations are over now.
Speaker 8: The time for negotiations was before this. And so yeah,
Speaker 8: Donald Trump looks and man, I supported him this last year.
Speaker 8: I apologized for doing so. It was a bad calculation.
Speaker 8: At the time, it seemed like the right one. But
Speaker 8: he should be impeached and removed for this one, and
Speaker 8: not on some like not on some ridiculous Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 8: Of course, the Congress will never do it because they're
Speaker 8: all a bunch of you know, corrupt tacks.
Speaker 1: This is the one thing they support.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Donald Trump should be impeached and removed for this.
Speaker 3: All of his supporters should turn on him.
Speaker 8: It's the absolute betrayal of everything that he ran and
Speaker 8: campaigned on and everything that he stood for. And I
Speaker 8: will say, despite the fact that you know, Donald Trump
Speaker 8: supporters have been labeled like a cult following, and that
Speaker 8: certainly is true for a percentage of his supporters, he
Speaker 8: is going to lose.
Speaker 3: His coalition over this. I know.
Speaker 8: I don't just speak for myself when I say there
Speaker 8: are a lot of us who simply will not go
Speaker 8: along with this.
Speaker 3: So it's just a devastating mistake. By the way. On
Speaker 3: top of that, he's.
Speaker 8: Also going to lose the deportation fight because of this,
Speaker 8: because right now he needed all the political capital he
Speaker 8: could have.
Speaker 3: To turn that.
Speaker 8: You know, you got a majority support for deportations, but
Speaker 8: the minority is very mobilized and they're out and they're
Speaker 8: protesting all around the country. He needed all of his
Speaker 8: political capital for that move. So here's what we got.
Speaker 8: The neo cons win more war abroad at you know,
Speaker 8: bomb the world and invite the world. No matter who
Speaker 8: you vote for, you always get John McCain.
Speaker 1: It is funny. You know, some of the small artists,
Speaker 1: evangelicals I know, say that the war in Iraq is
Speaker 1: actually what killed them. And they're like, we were winning,
Speaker 1: we were on top and oh four, you know, we
Speaker 1: were you know, defensive Marriage Act and all this. But
Speaker 1: it was Bush actually who killed our agenda and any
Speaker 1: ability you know, to do that, and then we lost
Speaker 1: obviously the two thousand and eight election. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I necessarily agree with it, but people who if you
Speaker 1: do care about some of the domestic stuff, let's say
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump did run on Well, you know you've
Speaker 1: got your answer as to the easiest way to destroy it.
Speaker 8: Go ahead, well say, look through all of American history, right,
Speaker 8: This is why it's so crazy for conservatives to not
Speaker 8: be anti war. When did they lose the culture the
Speaker 8: big time? When did they have the hippie sexual revolution?
Speaker 8: Is during the Vietnam War. And when did we see
Speaker 8: the rise in wokeism and progressive control of all these institutions.
Speaker 8: You think it was a coincidence that it was the
Speaker 8: administration after George W.
Speaker 3: Bush. When you launch an immoral war of.
Speaker 8: Aggression, you lose the moral high ground, period, so you
Speaker 8: can't lecture your society about but heard some of these
Speaker 8: right wing warhawks are going to lecture us about the
Speaker 8: about being pro life, about abortion being murder.
Speaker 3: Get out of here.
Speaker 8: And this is why the evangelicals lost their seat at
Speaker 8: the table for a generation, because they went all in
Speaker 8: on murdering a million people in Iraq for no reason.
Speaker 8: And so you know this was it was John Quincy
Speaker 8: Adams who said, if we go around the world looking
Speaker 8: for monsters to destroy, we will become the dicatrius of
Speaker 8: the world, but we will lose our own soul.
Speaker 1: Well said one of our mess rights. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Dave, you may feel that way, but
Speaker 2: Bill Ackman feels very different.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's this important point that put B.
Speaker 2: Seven up on the screen, which is that I think
Speaker 2: you're right. There was a part of his coalition, including
Speaker 2: yourself and others, who thought Trump would be more you know,
Speaker 2: more of a peace candidate and more anti war than
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris as the alternative. But there was another part
Speaker 2: of the coalition that looks like this, that is all
Speaker 2: you know, thinks that we have not gone nearly far
Speaker 2: enough in terms of fighting a direct hot regime change
Speaker 2: war against Iran. And so You've got Bill Lackman here
Speaker 2: saying Prade was great, our military is incredible. Now Israel
Speaker 2: needs are helped to destroy Iran's nuclear threat to the world.
Speaker 4: They say that.
Speaker 2: He says, Israel's military and air force have sufficiently degraded
Speaker 2: Iran's defenses such that this is now the lowest risk,
Speaker 2: highest probability moment to take out Iran's nuclear capability, grave
Speaker 2: threat to us all. We should not let this great
Speaker 2: opportunity Dave pass us by. But Israel does not have
Speaker 2: the equipment and armaments to complete the job we do,
Speaker 2: and it does not require boots on the ground. That
Speaker 2: war Israel has been fighting has been on behalf of
Speaker 2: all of us. Let's help them finish the job. This
Speaker 2: is a powerful voice in the Republican Coalition, It's a
Speaker 2: powerful voice within the administration, it's a powerful voice nationally
Speaker 2: in terms of achieving the policy ends and goals that
Speaker 2: they want.
Speaker 8: You know, it's like, we're never going to get the
Speaker 8: mass deportations, but can we at least deport all of
Speaker 8: these warhawks to announce Ealdadorian prisident?
Speaker 3: Could we just They really just did not. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's testing my.
Speaker 4: Life Israel horseshoe between you and me.
Speaker 8: Day Well, it's really it's testing my my belief in
Speaker 8: libertarianism because I just when I hear this, it's like
Speaker 8: these people do not have a right to speak. You
Speaker 8: shouldn't have a right to open your mouth the nerve,
Speaker 8: you know, It's like they could just say these things
Speaker 8: that are so objectively untrue, Like look, if you want
Speaker 8: to say, hey, look, I think this war in Iran
Speaker 8: isn't going to be a disaster like all the other
Speaker 8: ones were. And I think we're finally right, even though
Speaker 8: we've been wrong nine times in a row, I think
Speaker 8: we're right about this one. Like, fine, make your argument,
Speaker 8: but to say this is the lowest risk, like that,
Speaker 8: this is the lowes This is by far the highest
Speaker 8: risk of any of the terror wars. Objectively, that's not
Speaker 8: like an opinion, that's just it might end up working out,
Speaker 8: but the downside is the riskiest by far. That is,
Speaker 8: any military expert would back that up, who's not lying
Speaker 8: through their teeth would back that up. Anybody sit down
Speaker 8: and argue with me about potentially what Saddam Hussein could
Speaker 8: have done to us after we invaded, or potentially what
Speaker 8: Goadafi could have done to us verse what the Mullas
Speaker 8: can do to us. I'm sorry the risk is at
Speaker 8: the highest here. I hope that doesn't come true. I
Speaker 8: recognize we're already at war with this country. I know
Speaker 8: it won't look good for me, but I hope it
Speaker 8: does go well. I hope, I hope it's not the
Speaker 8: disaster that it looks like it's going to be. But
Speaker 8: don't sit here and tell me that this is the
Speaker 8: least risky one. This is by far the riskiest of
Speaker 8: all the terror wars. You know, maybe maybe the you know,
Speaker 8: proxy war with Russia was riskier than this, but compared
Speaker 8: to Libya or Syria, or Somalia, or Afghanistan or Iraq,
Speaker 8: no comparison.
Speaker 3: This one is by far the risk is.
Speaker 1: There's a good transition here to US involvement. Let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and put this up there on the screen. We
Speaker 1: have our friend Scott Horton. He is reporting here, you know,
Speaker 1: does echo some of your own comments, and he says
Speaker 1: sources the US will enter Israel's war with Iran, calling
Speaker 1: the White House and tell them that you do not
Speaker 1: want any part of this disastrous war. This is from
Speaker 1: sources to Scott Horton. You know, obviously Scott a very
Speaker 1: very smart guy. He does, of course some people in
Speaker 1: the administration in a sense, though you know, it's really
Speaker 1: only a question of offensive capability or not. We already know,
Speaker 1: you know, the extent to which the United States has
Speaker 1: been involved now with defending Israel. We can put the
Speaker 1: next one, guys up C two please. You could see
Speaker 1: Trump is obviously leaving that possibility open. He says, quote,
Speaker 1: it's possible the US could get involved, he means offensive leads,
Speaker 1: keeping the door there all signs do kind of point,
Speaker 1: you know in that direction. I at this point, Dave,
Speaker 1: I don't even yet know what a quote off ramp
Speaker 1: could look like, save for Trump flying to Tehran himself.
Speaker 1: If you're the Iranians, why would you meet with Steve
Speaker 1: Witkoff again, why would you, you know, have any credit
Speaker 1: credibility at this point for a US negotiator, And by
Speaker 1: the way, you don't even have a negotiator's send because
Speaker 1: Israel killed him. So can we just talk here about
Speaker 1: the extent here of US involvement, of the defensive capability,
Speaker 1: and also of how much worse things can go, because
Speaker 1: as you said, of course we're already involved in this war.
Speaker 1: We're effectively, you know, a primary actor. But you know,
Speaker 1: there's a big difference still, as we just talked about
Speaker 1: with Bill Ackman. There's B two bombers. That's like level one.
Speaker 1: Then there's US boots on our raids, you know, boots
Speaker 1: on the ground, and I think that's like level three.
Speaker 1: And then we have a prolonged occupation after the inevitable
Speaker 1: civil war and all that falls out, the strait CI
Speaker 1: war moves the risk and all of here to US forces.
Speaker 1: So the floor is yours.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I mean the what the military was telling
Speaker 8: George W. Bush back in two thousand and seven that
Speaker 8: we wouldn't have escalation dominance, Like the idea of that
Speaker 8: is that we can't control their next move. And so
Speaker 8: you could sit here and say, like, let's say, right,
Speaker 8: like Axios was already reporting the other day that Israel
Speaker 8: is asking us to join in, because you know, they
Speaker 8: always talk a big game about how they can do
Speaker 8: it themselves, so they actually can't do anything themselves. They
Speaker 8: can't even exist by themselves. That's why they always have
Speaker 8: to say, doesn't Israel have a right to exist? Meaning
Speaker 8: you got to help us exist? So they need they
Speaker 8: need these bunker busters that they don't have that they
Speaker 8: need from them. But look, even if the idea is
Speaker 8: that they're trying to sell us on, we can do
Speaker 8: this even as an air war, like even if America
Speaker 8: does get involved. But the problem is, and this is
Speaker 8: where the escalation dominance thing comes in. He goes, okay,
Speaker 8: But then what happens when Iran hits one of our
Speaker 8: bases or one of our embassies and kills a couple
Speaker 8: hundred Americans? What's Donald Trump gonna do as a result
Speaker 8: to that? And if you just game the thing out, yeah,
Speaker 8: it's very likely ends in invasion. And then as you
Speaker 8: just like alluded to, and then once you do that,
Speaker 8: once you invade and.
Speaker 3: Overthrow the regime, well, what are we gonna do? Now?
Speaker 8: Are we just gonna let We're just gonna risk that
Speaker 8: the streets of Harmouse fall into whoever's hands. They do,
Speaker 8: of course not, then we're back to nation building. And
Speaker 8: this is how it happens every single time. And you know,
Speaker 8: it's it's unbelievable, like even you know, it's even the
Speaker 8: war Hawks when they look back at the other wars,
Speaker 8: they'll they'll be like, yeah, well, we got dragged in
Speaker 8: and then we got but there is also a reason
Speaker 8: why we got dragged in. Like that's how it happens.
Speaker 8: Once you break it, you're in a different position now,
Speaker 8: aren't you. And you know, you could see like an
Speaker 8: example like in Libya where we didn't go in there
Speaker 8: in nation build you know which I I'm not saying
Speaker 8: it would have gone any better, but it was a
Speaker 8: complete disaster too. And so you know this, it's just
Speaker 8: we're playing with we're playing with fire here, we're playing
Speaker 8: with the destruction of the region. We're playing with the
Speaker 8: destruction of the United States of America. I mean, who
Speaker 8: really thinks we're at a point let's just say, hypothetically
Speaker 8: that this would turn into another Iraq or Afghanistan. How
Speaker 8: many people think we can survive another one of those,
Speaker 8: like you think it's just a give it. Look at
Speaker 8: our country right now. Our country was in a much
Speaker 8: stronger position in two thousand and three when we first
Speaker 8: invaded Iraq, or in two thousand and one when we
Speaker 8: first invaded Afghanistan than we are today. We didn't have
Speaker 8: the crushing debt that we have today. We didn't have
Speaker 8: the cultural and racial and political divides that.
Speaker 3: We have today.
Speaker 8: You know, we're in a much different situation, and we're
Speaker 8: risking that for nothing, just to get Benjamin Netanyahuo's seventh
Speaker 8: regime change that he wants so that Israel can get
Speaker 8: away with mistreating the Palestinians forever. That's the reason. Come
Speaker 8: telling you, there's no other reason. They don't have nuclear weapons.
Speaker 8: They weren't a threat to the United States of America.
Speaker 8: They were coming to the negotiating table over and over
Speaker 8: and over again. They went out of their way to
Speaker 8: not want war again. I'm not saying the Iranians are
Speaker 8: a great regime.
Speaker 3: They're not.
Speaker 8: They mistreat their own people, they mistreat their women particularly,
Speaker 8: But like, Okay, we didn't need to go to war
Speaker 8: with them. And if we're gonna just start going to
Speaker 8: war with every regime around the world who mistreats its
Speaker 8: own people, well, I mean, we could start with the
Speaker 8: US and Israel if we wanted to do that, but
Speaker 8: or we could go to war with every regime in
Speaker 8: the country and in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's just madness.
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly what puts the six up on the screen, guys,
Speaker 2: Because I thought this was a pretty good analysis from
Speaker 2: Haretz and gets to some of what you're saying here.
Speaker 2: It's the headline here from Amir Tibone, who we've had
Speaker 2: on the show, who's very thoughtful guy says, now, who's
Speaker 2: counting on Trump to finish what Israel started in Iran?
Speaker 2: Israel doesn't necessarily have the firepower to take out each
Speaker 2: and every element of Tehran's nuclear program unless Iran attacks
Speaker 2: American targets. The next phase of the war is largely
Speaker 2: in Donald Trump's hands. And here's how this logic goes. Okay, Israel,
Speaker 2: with our full backing, picks this fight. Now they say, well,
Speaker 2: we can't actually do everything we needed to do without you,
Speaker 2: so we need you involved here. And oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: the Iranians aren't going to come back to the negotiating table,
Speaker 2: so you know, you've got to get involved because the
Speaker 2: negotiations are dead and there's no other alternative. Okay, Now
Speaker 2: we're you know, helping the Israeli strike the Iranian nuclear sites.
Speaker 2: And by the way, let's be clear, it's not like
Speaker 2: all their targets.
Speaker 4: Have been nuclear related.
Speaker 2: This the targets have been had some nuclear related elements,
Speaker 2: nuclear scientists, et cetera. But this has been aimed at
Speaker 2: regime change. So let's say you get your wish and
Speaker 2: you destabilize the country. Let's say they take out the
Speaker 2: Supreme leader as they are projecting that they want to do.
Speaker 2: Now you're facing a potential failed state, and you're going
Speaker 2: to just let that, you know, let that unfold. And
Speaker 2: like you said, the consequences with oil prices and the
Speaker 2: straits of our moves, consequences with how many millions of
Speaker 2: refugees would flood out of Iran, you know, to countries
Speaker 2: all around the world.
Speaker 4: You're just gonna let that unfold.
Speaker 2: But Israel isn't capable of handling that situation themselves, so
Speaker 2: again you would need your big brother, the US. And
Speaker 2: so that's how you get pulled in, step by step
Speaker 2: by step, where it's you know, at every step of
Speaker 2: the way, you create a mess that's impossible for Israel
Speaker 2: to manage themselves, that does directly then impact US interests
Speaker 2: and drags us in further and further and further. Now
Speaker 2: that that diplomatic solution has been destroying us completely off
Speaker 2: the table, especially with the fact that the Trump administration
Speaker 2: is bragging about lying not only by the way to
Speaker 2: the Iranians, but to the American people about their intent
Speaker 2: to solve this through peaceful and diplomatic means.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, the thing to me that's really
Speaker 8: wild as I try to like zoom out and look
Speaker 8: at this in the big picture, is that you know,
Speaker 8: like for anybody really paying attention, you'd know how much
Speaker 8: the war in Iraq was about Israel. Yeah, this is
Speaker 8: just a fact. Like it's just it is the case.
Speaker 8: And you could look at like all of the neo
Speaker 8: conservatives and all of the Lakudniks in their own words,
Speaker 8: would admit that for years before the war in Iraq
Speaker 8: that like, this is why we want to overthrow Sadam
Speaker 8: Hussein because we think it's in Israel's interest. But back
Speaker 8: in two thousand and two, in two thousand and three,
Speaker 8: when they were building up the when they were beating
Speaker 8: the war drums and building the propaganda for it, they
Speaker 8: still had a very controlled, you know media environment in
Speaker 8: the old legacy corporate media. And so what the American
Speaker 8: people were told was that Saddam Hussein was in on
Speaker 8: nine to eleven and he has weapons of mass destruction.
Speaker 8: And look, in a post nine to eleven world, we
Speaker 8: just can't let that be you can't have an Arab
Speaker 8: leader with nukes who's friends with Osama ben Laden because
Speaker 8: he could give it to them and they could New
Speaker 8: Kansas And Okay, we all know looking back at that
Speaker 8: that that was all, you know, a mountain of lies.
Speaker 8: But at least you could see where that was like
Speaker 8: propaganda that could maybe get some soccer mom in Kansas.
Speaker 3: To go, all right, I guess I support the war.
Speaker 8: Now this is really the only one where it's just
Speaker 8: there is no propaganda around it. It's just I mean
Speaker 8: there is, but like it's nakedly, this is we're fighting
Speaker 8: a war for Israel here. And it's amazing that, you know,
Speaker 8: for all of the people who hyperventilate about the rise
Speaker 8: of anti Semitism and how awful it is that Jewish
Speaker 8: students feel unsafe at some college in America. I mean,
Speaker 8: like you, what do you think this is going to
Speaker 8: do to this country? Like, what do you think is
Speaker 8: going to happen with anti Semitism?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 8: You see that going up or down when we nakedly
Speaker 8: enter an aggressive war of choice on behalf of this
Speaker 8: country that's already gotten us into six that's already had
Speaker 8: Like how many are we expected to enter to We've
Speaker 8: given them tens of billions of dollars, all of our intelligence,
Speaker 8: all of our weapons. We allow them to do whatever
Speaker 8: they want to their poor neighbors.
Speaker 3: We want.
Speaker 8: We literally watch on our phones as their neighbors babies scream,
Speaker 8: as they're crushed under buildings, dying the most gruesome deaths,
Speaker 8: and yet now we're required to enter another war for them.
Speaker 8: It's just I mean, it's such an outrage and man,
Speaker 8: it just seems so incredibly shortsighted and this it's just
Speaker 8: gonna lead to nothing good.
Speaker 1: Nope, it is certainly not. But as usual, we always
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Dave a voice for many who feel voiceless
Speaker 1: at an a crazy moment.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, Dave, appreciate you, know you being principled and
Speaker 2: your character is not easy to be like, hey, I
Speaker 2: was just wrong about this, so you know, really huge
Speaker 2: respect for that and always always great to talk to
Speaker 2: you and get your insights.
Speaker 1: Good to see you man now.
Speaker 3: Thanks guys. Always great to talk to you, guys. Appreciate
Speaker 3: you having me