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Speaker 1: Welcome to All Ball and Doug Gottlieb. You can check

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Speaker 1: out The Doug Gottlieb Show every day three to six

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Speaker 1: Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio and of course on

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Speaker 1: your I Heart Radio app. You can listen to us

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Speaker 1: on Serious and XM channel two oh three, I believe

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Speaker 1: is the XM channel. UM, follow me on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show. There you go. Now we we're done with

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Speaker 1: the pleasant trees. Two topics I want to get to

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Speaker 1: here in All Ball. The first is transferring and the

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Speaker 1: mess that's made of college basketball. Listen, I fully understand

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Speaker 1: and respect that. Um, there's a sense from fans that

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Speaker 1: college basketball is just kind of a way station to

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Speaker 1: get to the NBA, and on some levels it is. Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie to you and sit here and

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Speaker 1: tell you when I came out of high school, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think ultimately I'd have a shot to play in

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Speaker 1: the NBA the league. I just want to get the league,

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Speaker 1: want to get the league. The reality of it is

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Speaker 1: the numbers, UM bear out to where it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to get to the league. Now, it's not necessarily difficult

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Speaker 1: to play professional basketball to make a living. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's difficult, but it's not like impossible. But to make

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Speaker 1: it in the NBA, it's next to impossible in terms

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Speaker 1: of the numbers, right, three fifty some odd Division one schools,

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Speaker 1: almost all of which offer a scholarship or even the

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Speaker 1: IVY League now offers financial assistance completely covering things up

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Speaker 1: to what grand a year if your parents make up

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Speaker 1: to seventy five grand a year. So um, let's say

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Speaker 1: there's three forty five schools that offer even three fifty

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Speaker 1: that offer, you know, thirteen scholarships a piece. Meanwhile, there's

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Speaker 1: four fifty NBA jobs total total, and even if you

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Speaker 1: expand that when you're talking about the G League and whatever. Look,

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Speaker 1: there's as we're talking, one percent of the college basketball players,

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Speaker 1: right one one, that's what we're talking about. So um,

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Speaker 1: those numbers are it adds up to being really really hard.

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Speaker 1: It's just hard. Thirty first round draft picks, five of

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Speaker 1: which usually come from overseas, guys are fighting over twenty

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Speaker 1: five locked in jobs, and even those jobs don't have

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Speaker 1: great long term security. So I know that there's this Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, college basketball players, they're just crushing it for

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Speaker 1: their schools. The college basketball programs don't make that much

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Speaker 1: money for their schools. They just don't. Their TV deals don't.

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Speaker 1: The the n c A tournament does um and they

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Speaker 1: are that money gets redistributed to n c A schools,

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Speaker 1: and of course they spread that out not just to

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Speaker 1: basketball but to all other sports. But the reality of

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Speaker 1: it is college basketball programs generally don't make a ton

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Speaker 1: of money for their schools. Are they keeping their head

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Speaker 1: above water? Yes? Are they're making money? Sure, most of

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Speaker 1: them are, especially the good ones really really are, But

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Speaker 1: it pales the comparison to football. And the the interesting

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Speaker 1: part about it is you actually get to know the

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Speaker 1: basketball players more than you get to know the football players. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: ask yourself right now, how many college basketball faces and

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Speaker 1: names do you know? Now? Do the same thing for

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Speaker 1: college football? And yet college football makes a ton more money,

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Speaker 1: not just because the stadiums, but the the value of

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Speaker 1: having those games on TV, because the ratings are exponentially higher.

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Speaker 1: But whether it's football or it's basketball, anybody in the

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Speaker 1: sport knows this, knows this, and they may not say

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Speaker 1: it in front of a microphone, but they'll say it

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Speaker 1: to everybody off Mike. Which is the transferring thing is

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Speaker 1: a problem. It's a huge problem, and we can we

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Speaker 1: can say, well, you know, coaches shouldn't hold players hostage.

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Speaker 1: Most coaches don't hold you hostage. They may want you

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Speaker 1: to grow and mature and have an ultimate plan in

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Speaker 1: place for you to win your your job. But if

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Speaker 1: you're not as good as they would have thought, they

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Speaker 1: probably don't want you to hang around. They're not holding

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Speaker 1: you hostage. On the other hand, no one has any patience,

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Speaker 1: any patients at all towards sitting and waiting. Now full disclosure, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is just me being honest. I wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: a school where I was going to sit. I just

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Speaker 1: I wasn't. I remember my Montgomery called me from Stanford,

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Speaker 1: and um, his basic spiel was like, look, this is

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Speaker 1: the best school on earth. We got great players, we

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Speaker 1: got great guys. We're gonna win. We're complaining the NSCA

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Speaker 1: de tournament. You're gonna back up Brevin Knight for two years,

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Speaker 1: and then you would be your job to start for

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Speaker 1: two years. You could play with Brevin Knights some, but

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Speaker 1: you're mostly going to be a backup. You know, you'll

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Speaker 1: play ten to twenty minutes, maybe sometimes over twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: in a game and then when he's gone, you'll play

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Speaker 1: over thirty thirty minutes and be our starting point guard.

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Speaker 1: I just I wasn't into it, and so I said thanks,

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Speaker 1: but no thanks. They moved on. They signed art lye

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Speaker 1: artly ends up leading to them to a Final four.

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Speaker 1: This true story. Why did I go to you know what,

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Speaker 1: why'd I go to to Notre Dame Because they had

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Speaker 1: add more white there and I was told like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're better than that or white. You're going to start

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Speaker 1: your freshman year. We're gonna be first year in the

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Speaker 1: Big East. And it took me four games and ultimately

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Speaker 1: I became the starting point guard Notre Dame. And even

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Speaker 1: then I was frustrated. Right I was the first date.

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Speaker 1: I had to wait four games. Um, in hindsight, I

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Speaker 1: probably didn't earn it in practice. Now, part of it

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Speaker 1: was how we practiced. Part of it was my lack

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Speaker 1: of experience in playing what I would call real basketball.

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Speaker 1: But so I understand the lack of patients that scholar

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Speaker 1: athletes have. When they signed in college. They signed thinking

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Speaker 1: they're going to go and be stars. And some of it,

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Speaker 1: some of it is the sale that's made by the coaches.

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Speaker 1: Some of it is some of some of the some

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Speaker 1: of them are promises that are not kept, but some

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Speaker 1: of it also is the hey, man, it's going to

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Speaker 1: work in the end. You know it's going to work

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Speaker 1: out for you in the end. You're just gonna have

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Speaker 1: to trust the process a little bit. The crazy thing

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Speaker 1: about how we've gone in college sports as we went

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Speaker 1: from being so overwhelming league pro university in our rules,

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Speaker 1: so now it's the exact opposite. Now we're ridiculously pro

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Speaker 1: athlete ridiculously. The guys that benefit most from the current

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Speaker 1: transfer rules are guys that transfer out before the end

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Speaker 1: of their first year. Right, you go to a place

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Speaker 1: and you stay for eight nine games, and then you're like,

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Speaker 1: I'm out this saying what I signed up for. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes you do coaches a favor, but oftentimes they sit

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Speaker 1: there and go like, this is we can't go on

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Speaker 1: the waiver wire and pick a guy up. If we

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Speaker 1: pick up a transfer, you know, nine games and he

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Speaker 1: has the city year. If you say you're coming for

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Speaker 1: a year, you're coming for a year. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to guarantee us you're gonna stay for the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life and stay on campus for fifteen years and

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Speaker 1: get a doctorate. But if you stay, you're coming for

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Speaker 1: a year. Guys that leave after the first semester, after

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Speaker 1: the first year, they benefit the most because now they

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Speaker 1: can go to a second school, red shirt, improve play,

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Speaker 1: graduate and transferred to a third school. And it's just

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Speaker 1: And the thing about transferring is this and this. No

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Speaker 1: one will tell you this except for me and people

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Speaker 1: being real. Once you leave a school kind of done there.

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Speaker 1: You just are like I have great friends for my

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Speaker 1: time and notre Dame. Frand McCaffrey recruited me. Um, he

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Speaker 1: is a dear, dear friend. If he needed anything, I

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Speaker 1: would go there if I needed anything. And I called

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Speaker 1: on him and you know, I interviewed for college coaching job.

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Speaker 1: The guy who gave me the who gave me just

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Speaker 1: talk to me for hours on end with Frank McCaffrey

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Speaker 1: because he totally knows me, I mean, recruited me every

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Speaker 1: day when I was in Southern California. Knows me as

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Speaker 1: a human being, knows me in terms of my my

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Speaker 1: what my basketball vision is. Knew my father so well,

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Speaker 1: m Ryan Hoover, who was my two guard, Pat Garritty,

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Speaker 1: who is our starting power for Like those guys are

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Speaker 1: Antony wish she was in my freshman recruiting class. These

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Speaker 1: guys are near, very dear to my heart friends. And

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Speaker 1: yet and then some of it is I got in

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Speaker 1: trouble and Notre Dame, and that's why I had to leave.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of it is when you leave, you're

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Speaker 1: kind of done there. And and I think that's the

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Speaker 1: interesting part that no one says about these grad transfers.

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Speaker 1: You have guys that go to a place for you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame Matt Mooney, right, he has a nice

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Speaker 1: career in South Dakota, he graduates, he transfers, he goes

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Speaker 1: to Texas Tech. Now I get the chance to play

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Speaker 1: for Chris Beard. But you're not really a Texas Tech guy,

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Speaker 1: and you're not really a South Dakota guy anymore. But

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Speaker 1: it also makes it so it's it's incredibly hard to watch. Look,

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Speaker 1: I've covered this sport for fifteen This is my sixteenth

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Speaker 1: season of doing anything covering college basketball. Sixteen years. It

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Speaker 1: is ridiculously difficult to go Okay, wait, um, he played here,

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Speaker 1: then played here, then played like I'm still It takes

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Speaker 1: it takes me, as a broadcaster, about a month prepare

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Speaker 1: for the season and then even once the season starts

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Speaker 1: to still Oh yeah, Brandon Clark, he was at San

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Speaker 1: Jose State, I remember, but that sucks for Prelu when

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Speaker 1: he got the job and he lost Brandon Clark and

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Speaker 1: now he's a star at at Gonzaga, right like it

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Speaker 1: takes a while for me to remember where guys are

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Speaker 1: you know who else? It takes a while fans. It

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Speaker 1: makes it harder to coach, but more importantly makes it

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Speaker 1: harder to root for. And among the things that hurt

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Speaker 1: the college basketball regular season, because that's one of the

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Speaker 1: arguments that excuses made for college football not having a

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Speaker 1: playoff is, Hey, we don't want our college see we

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Speaker 1: don't want our season to be like college basketball season. Well,

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Speaker 1: is it fair that there are too many games on TV? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is it fair that you can finish below five hundred

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Speaker 1: in your conference? And fair to say that finishing below

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Speaker 1: five hundred in your conference, um doesn't signify having a

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Speaker 1: great year. You shouldn't play in the n c A Tournament.

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Speaker 1: But teams consistently have yes, And that obviously helps the

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Speaker 1: football argument of hey, we want our seasons and our

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Speaker 1: our conference play the matter. That's that's fair, But one

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Speaker 1: of the missing parts of it. Is. The thing about

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Speaker 1: college basketball that's been different from NBA basketball is um

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Speaker 1: is how close the students and the fans can get

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Speaker 1: to the floor, like you feel like you're all kind

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Speaker 1: of part of the thing, right. In addition to the

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Speaker 1: guys are tied to their universities, and we do this.

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Speaker 1: We we do it on on two or three different levels.

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Speaker 1: Right when a when a player transfers out, we want

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Speaker 1: to fans and some media members want to make it

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Speaker 1: so that guys can play right away. We do these

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Speaker 1: things that actually encourages player movement and encourages players to

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Speaker 1: leave or to go pro. That that that actually make

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Speaker 1: it so that players respond in a way in which

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Speaker 1: makes it more likely that they're gonna go pro or

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Speaker 1: they're gonna transfer out. Perry Ellen stays four years in Kansas,

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Speaker 1: and look, some of it was his hairline. But we

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Speaker 1: make fun of it and say he's been there forever, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm as guilty of it as anybody. We

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Speaker 1: did it with Grayson Allen. How long has Grayson Allen

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Speaker 1: been there? Oh, he's been you know. And it's not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing to stay in school for four years.

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Speaker 1: It's just not um Additionally, you know when guys don't

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Speaker 1: go pro after their first year, we act like there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong with them, you know, like how, somehow there's

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Speaker 1: something off there. Carson Edwards is a perfect example of

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Speaker 1: why you don't go pro and everybody thinks you should

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Speaker 1: go pro. He had a great year last year. Now

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Speaker 1: everything they do at Perdue is for him, and he's

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Speaker 1: developed enough where he can accept that role and he's

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Speaker 1: gonna average over twenty a game and the Big ten

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Speaker 1: might well be Big ten player that you'll definitely be

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Speaker 1: first team All Big Ten. But because the draft pool

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Speaker 1: is slimmer this year than it was last year, a

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Speaker 1: guy who's really an off the guard, off the bench

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Speaker 1: guard you can come in and score, might sneak into

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Speaker 1: the first round this year. But we make it out like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you somehow weren't good enough, you're somehow not worthy,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't leave as a one and done, well,

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Speaker 1: you're never really going to be an NBA player. That's

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Speaker 1: just not true. That's not true. You know that this

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Speaker 1: idea of guys that are pros look Brent Forbes made

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Speaker 1: himself into approach. If we pointed out he transferred up

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Speaker 1: a level right, But Brent Forbes has made himself into

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Speaker 1: a starting NBA two guard. That's a pretty amazing story.

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Speaker 1: I just we have gotten to this point where we're

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Speaker 1: so pro player, so pro player, you should have to

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Speaker 1: sit out. We mean, let me just state this really quickly.

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Speaker 1: If you transfer and you have a sick mom or

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Speaker 1: sick dad, or sick grandparents, or you're just like super

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Speaker 1: homesick and you want to make something up, if you

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Speaker 1: really really really need to get close to home because

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Speaker 1: of an un foreseen illness or death in the family,

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Speaker 1: well guess what, you should probably be taking time away

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Speaker 1: from basketball to handle that too. There has to be

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Speaker 1: some sort of logical buy out of a scholarship. It's

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Speaker 1: a contract, the first one you sign, and we are

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Speaker 1: not preparing basketball players for real life, and fans have

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Speaker 1: no no view of how it actually mirrors real life. No,

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Speaker 1: they're not like regular students, you know, regular students. It

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Speaker 1: is because, first of all, when a college athlete transfers

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Speaker 1: into a school, admission is not difficult. When a student does,

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Speaker 1: sometimes admission can be difficult. We make them pay all

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Speaker 1: their bills, but we don't hold them to any sort

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Speaker 1: of level accountability with a contract. That they signed. And

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Speaker 1: he might say, well, college coaches they leave, they have buyouts.

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Speaker 1: That's there. That's what they have to do in order

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Speaker 1: to get out of their contract. And oh yeah, by

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Speaker 1: the way, they got to move their entire family. They

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Speaker 1: gotta figure out their staff. There's a bunch of moving

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Speaker 1: parts there. And do I think that when when a

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Speaker 1: coach leaves, a player should be allowed to leave. I'm

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Speaker 1: fine with that. But the idea that a player can

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Speaker 1: leave out of his scholarship, especially at midyear or even

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Speaker 1: at the end of the year, and one play right

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Speaker 1: away because he says he has a family member sick

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Speaker 1: or two he gets the benefit of transferring early instead

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Speaker 1: of seeing the process through. So seeing the process through,

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Speaker 1: when he benefits early, you can transfer again. But all

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Speaker 1: of it gives us this with the exception of the

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Speaker 1: Duke threesome and maybe even three throw Trey Jones in.

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Speaker 1: There is the Duke forsome an amazing class. If it

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Speaker 1: wasn't for Zion Williamson, who's a YouTube sensation and as J.

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Speaker 1: Billis called him a phenomenon, he really is a phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: How much would you really care pay attention in early

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Speaker 1: season college basketball compared to how you used to, because you,

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Speaker 1: in addition to not knowing the incoming freshman, you don't

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Speaker 1: actually know many of the returning players because so many

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Speaker 1: of transferred and they're wearing new uniforms, and there's people

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Speaker 1: who this is the secret to college athletics that you're

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Speaker 1: only going to hear here on all balls, all this

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Speaker 1: only place you're gonna hear. Pick the team that you follow.

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Speaker 1: You follow them. You're a fan of that, that team

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Speaker 1: who goes to those games, who watches those games on TV,

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Speaker 1: By and large, people from that area, grew up in

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Speaker 1: that area, or alums of that school, and sometimes alums

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Speaker 1: of said conference school, or of the same of the opponent.

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Speaker 1: If you grew up in the area, you're a lum

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Speaker 1: of the area. You're a fan of that, You've always

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Speaker 1: been a fan of the team. That's who watches. Look

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Speaker 1: at every season ticket base, it's all the same. The

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Speaker 1: people who go to those games go there because it's

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Speaker 1: their school. Now there may be more of them when

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Speaker 1: they're winning more, and obviously having better players helps you

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Speaker 1: win more. But this idea that the players name and

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Speaker 1: likeness matter is kind of laughable. What what does matter

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Speaker 1: is the player's name in lightness being tied consistently to

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Speaker 1: the same university because when they transfer out, we just

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Speaker 1: it's it's like a where's waldough trying to find these guys,

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Speaker 1: And as the guy who's done it for sixteen years,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you it's increasingly difficult because you've got

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Speaker 1: a thousand guys on Jeff Goodman's you know, transfer list,

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Speaker 1: and it grows every year and it makes the sport worse.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm only trying to help save the sport. I'm

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Speaker 1: only trying to help you. Tell you the college basketball

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Speaker 1: is awesome, you know. I'd love to talk about Creighton

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Speaker 1: and the transformation in Greg McDermott's coaching style from getting

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Speaker 1: trying to get blood out of a rock when he

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Speaker 1: ran a million sets in Northern Iowa to now where

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Speaker 1: they played fun five four or five out basketball. I

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Speaker 1: know they lost the to Gonzaga, but that was a

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Speaker 1: fun bat. It was a great watch on a Saturday

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Speaker 1: afternoon last last week. But it's hard to get the

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Speaker 1: mainstream fan to buy in because they don't know the players.

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Speaker 1: The good ones, the gre talents aren't there long enough,

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Speaker 1: and the transfers make it so that even the rank

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Speaker 1: and file guys. We don't know who they are, where

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Speaker 1: they came from. There's no consistency of names being associated

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Speaker 1: with the university, and so there's no ability to create

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Speaker 1: any sort of fan base for a for a player,

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Speaker 1: for a team. It hasn't been established by having wins.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say is this, I think

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Speaker 1: that what college basketball does is a grosser name image

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Speaker 1: and likeness. It does, and the NBA should actually push

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Speaker 1: for guys to stay in school more because when they do,

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Speaker 1: they have a built in fan base when they get

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Speaker 1: to the NBA, and that that travels with Let's welcome

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Speaker 1: in Jeff Goodman from Stadium Sports, who called his first

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Speaker 1: game ever with me san Diego, San Diego State. So

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Speaker 1: in addition to being a Bostonian in southern California during

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Speaker 1: a rainstorm, you got a chance to call a game.

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Speaker 1: How to feel it was good? It was good? It

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Speaker 1: was it was actually you know, you made it fairly because, uh,

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Speaker 1: because the talk. We've known each other a long time.

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Speaker 1: I think we feel comfortable ripping on each other if

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Speaker 1: we need to. We really didn't do much of it.

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Speaker 1: We just had fallen and and told it like it is.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what we have always had in common, right,

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Speaker 1: like tell it like it is, and some people hate

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Speaker 1: us for it, some people love us for it. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was fun. Other than again, the weather in San

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Speaker 1: Diego was brutal and even driving up to l A,

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Speaker 1: I got a triple head or um, your night, it

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Speaker 1: was pretty bad. So people do not know how to

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Speaker 1: drive in the rain at all around. I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody actually knows how to driving the rain anywhere like that.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the biggest like, oh, they don't know

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Speaker 1: what I'm of course, the driving the rain in southern

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Speaker 1: California never rains, but it's not like there's anywhere where

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Speaker 1: when it rains three inches in a day, you know

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Speaker 1: how to how to drive. Let's get to some basketball topics.

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Speaker 1: Verning carry ends up signing with or committing to Duke right,

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Speaker 1: and we're seeing these big three could go one to

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Speaker 1: three in the draft. Uh, I want to get to

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Speaker 1: your big board in a second, go to Duke. Why

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Speaker 1: does it feel like, whether it's real reality or perception,

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Speaker 1: why does it feel like the pendulum the swung where

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Speaker 1: Duke is now the landing spot for the top kids.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you three letters, U s A USA basketball.

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Speaker 1: That change did for k He could say what he

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Speaker 1: wants that it didn't, but what it did is it

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Speaker 1: took him from where he was number two to now

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Speaker 1: he's clearly number one over Caliperry. Caliperry was the guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, everybody knew it. Calcarry was a hell

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Speaker 1: of a recruiter at Memphis. Then he goes to Kentucky

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Speaker 1: and it's like the elite recruiter at the elite spot.

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Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna beat him. He showed that for years. But

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Speaker 1: USA basketball, you know, they both have. But he's been

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Speaker 1: doing USA basketball, ye, Jeff, he's been doing us A

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Speaker 1: basketball for over a decade. Only now has the pendulum

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Speaker 1: swung right. He had carry Irving going back, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: six seven years ago. But like in this one and

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Speaker 1: done era, it does feel like something's changed. It's like

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Speaker 1: has caltick people off. There's something about Duke's success and

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Speaker 1: did like what there has to be something more than

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Speaker 1: just hey, you know, look he's coaching. He's not even

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Speaker 1: coaching tm USA anymore. Like that's the crazy part. No,

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Speaker 1: But but he has been. And what I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: is like the you know, the help he's gotten from

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Speaker 1: the people at USA Basketball has certainly aided his cause. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, yes, all those like all those

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Speaker 1: here's the way it works, Okay, all those junior national

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Speaker 1: teams whatever, Like you know, any coach who you know,

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Speaker 1: Kansas guy's course, Bill Self, you know, took his team

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Speaker 1: to the World University Games. Um. And so even if

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Speaker 1: it's not the big national team, it's the other national teams.

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Speaker 1: You get to try out for workout for practice against

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Speaker 1: the big boys or whatever. Like. There are promises and

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Speaker 1: hints made during recruitment, but it just it is. It

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Speaker 1: is fascinating. All right. Your big board just came out

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Speaker 1: at Stadium Sports. Who's the guy who's gonna most surprise

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00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: people that's on your big board? I think it's two.

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00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: It's probably Kobe White. I think I haven't at like nineteen,

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Speaker 1: somewhere around that twenty range. And Jackson Hayes, who's mid

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Speaker 1: twenties freshman of Texas who most people don't even know

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Speaker 1: who the hell he is. I mean, big athletic average

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Speaker 1: like five minutes a game, is a junior in high school.

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Speaker 1: And uh Dad is a tight ends coach of the

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Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs. UM since and I bangled. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry and uh, those are the two that I

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Speaker 1: think would probably have moved up the most for me

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Speaker 1: from start. I had neither one of them in the

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Speaker 1: first round. I've never heard of Jackson Hayes before, you know,

399
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Speaker 1: three weeks ago. Um, I would agree with you. I

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00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 1: went and saw him in Vegas and I was, I was.

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00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: I was blown away by by Jackson Hayes. You're going

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Speaker 1: to see the triple header tonight. I'll bet you doing

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00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: halftime for one of the games. It's kind of a

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00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: weird deal where the St. Mayors the Mexico game, I

405
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: don't even know, like that on ESPN Plus. Then we

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Speaker 1: have kind of the middle game, um, and then the nightcap,

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Speaker 1: which is Nevada and USC. Yeah, we have us, we

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Speaker 1: have the USC game, us C t C U. UM.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you about Nevada. You're byron to them

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Speaker 1: getting to the Final four, Like I'll say that they

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Speaker 1: have a chance. I mean, if you're telling me, like

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Speaker 1: gunning in my head, am I picking Nevada to go

413
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Speaker 1: to the Final four, I'm gonna say no. But anybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, these days, anybody has a chance. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, Loyola went last year. Uh there, to me,

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Speaker 1: there's like three or four teams that are at a

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Speaker 1: different level right now when you're when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: choose the top four teams to go to the final four.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got obviously Gonzaga. They don't even a

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Speaker 1: chilly back you obviously because of their talent. Uh. To me,

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Speaker 1: you have to have Kansas, especially when Dope gets back.

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Speaker 1: I talked to Bill Selfia today. He doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: it could be a hundred percential after the new year.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't even need him that much, to be honest, you

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Speaker 1: get throw Dietrich Lasson at the five and be just

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Speaker 1: five and maybe the Suser comes back, we don't know

427
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: yet with him, and then the fourth one of me

428
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: is Virginia, and I think then there's a gap, a

429
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: significant gap after that to the Tennessee's, the nevad Is

430
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: the next year, whoever you want to put in there.

431
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: Why do you hate the ten so much? It stinks

432
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: it's so bad this year, Like I've never figured out,

433
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: like VCU did just beat Texas. I want to point

434
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: that out. The VCU did did just beat Texas. I

435
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: think I think the tournament team this Texas the tournament

436
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: team here absolutely absolutely, come on, absolutely absolutely, They're not

437
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: absolutely a tournament team. There will be a fringe tournament

438
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: team most likely. I don't know what happened when they

439
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: came home from Vegas. They look so good against Carolina,

440
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: they have a big lead to get is Chigan State.

441
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: Then they lose to Radford and VCU at home, Like

442
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: what the hell is that? What I'm telling you though,

443
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: like today today, if they'd probably be in, they beat Arkansas,

444
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: they beat North Carolina, they're gonna get in, and they're

445
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: gonna win you know, half their games in the Big Twelve,

446
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: they're gonna get Like you got the top half. They

447
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: gotta finish in the top half of the Big twelve.

448
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: That's not a given. I don't even think you have

449
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: necessarily had to finish top half. But yes, okay, it's fine.

450
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't think the Big twelve is is there outside

451
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: of Kansas? You know, like how good is Baylor? How

452
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: good is West Virginia? How good is Oklahoma State? A

453
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: team I thought would be better. They just lost to Tulsa,

454
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: They've lost to Charlotte, they lost to Minnesota. So um anyway, uh,

455
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: but we were talking about we get to Texas, like

456
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: I get, Look, here's what's happened. What happened the A ten,

457
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: Same thing that happened to the Missouri Valley. You know,

458
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: you lose your top teams and then you go and

459
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: get you know, low majors to be in a high

460
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: mid major league and it's gonna take a while to adjust.

461
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: And the league is is down. But look, I think

462
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: I think St. Louis is pretty good. Davidson's not bad.

463
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean they were embarrassing obviously against Perdue, but they've

464
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: been good otherwise. And DC is not terrible. The bottom

465
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: of the league is really bad. I don't know what

466
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: happened to George Mason, obviously, the bottom's falling out of

467
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: George Washington and and LaSalle is a complete rebuild. Listen,

468
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: the bottom line, though, is okay, your your your top

469
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: teams have to be really good, right your your top

470
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: programs in the league. And Dayton has not been great

471
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: and VC has not been great. It's like it's like

472
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: the pack, Well, why is the Pack twelve stink this year?

473
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: Because you see in Arizona aren't that good? Period? Look,

474
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: I think U c L as talented. I think they

475
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: don't have a point guard, maybe don't have great leadership.

476
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, Jalen Hands is not really a point guard. Um,

477
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: But that the gamble was the key there. Tiger Campbell,

478
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: good and hurt was the key for u c l A.

479
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: That might end up costing Steve Ballford his job. It's very,

480
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: very possible. And I think Arizona is kind of surprising, right, like,

481
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, by the way, it's pretty good coach. Remember

482
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: they did just go to Yukon and get a win.

483
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: I mean they lost to Gonzaga and Auburn, two teams

484
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: that could very well in their league. They beat Iowa State,

485
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: who played well out there. And I know Iowa State

486
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: still without Wigginton, but I mean Arizona. But I'd agree

487
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: with you that that's what happens when the top teams

488
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: are down. The perception of the league of the league

489
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: is down, all right. Last thing before we let you go, um,

490
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: your National Player of the Year as of now it's

491
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: only a month in the season, is who I'm going.

492
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 1: I know you're going t Tinkle. Well, no, I just

493
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: look here, here's my thing with Trace Tinkle. I'll talk

494
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: about it. No, No, it's just he's a tremendous player

495
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: who does three things really well. He scores, he rebounds,

496
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: and he passes for a kid who's six ft eight

497
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: and they're a good team and a great team. But

498
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: we do this thing in college basketball. We cover like

499
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: ten teams and then we pick our player of the

500
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 1: year from those ten teams. That's it, that's what we do, right, Like,

501
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: Trey Young got a bunch of attention last year for

502
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: leading the corner country and scoring assist. His team sucked,

503
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: but because the stats were so obscene, we compelled to

504
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: put him on every list, right whereas there are guys

505
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: that actually had better years that might not have had

506
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: those same stats. No, let listen. I love think I do.

507
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: I think he's a terrific player. I would give it

508
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: to Ruy right now, the best player on the best team.

509
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: And I know some people arguing that the best player

510
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: in his own team, but I would say he is.

511
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: He's the best player in his own team. He's turned

512
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: into an alpha dog, and we saw that with the

513
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: game winner against Washington, and that was always a big question.

514
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: I talked to him before the year and he even

515
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: said that he's like in our culture in Japan, that's

516
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: not how we're taught to be and and Mark has

517
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: been on him about that. You've got to be that guy.

518
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: You gotta try to take over games. We need you

519
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: to do that. And if he can be that, I

520
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: think all the other dudes they're gonna have until he

521
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: comes back. We know Zach Norville loves the big moment,

522
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: right he's beerless. Perkins likes it. I don't really want

523
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: him taking it, but but he he has the cajnans

524
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: to take it. And then like Corey Kissber, it's pretty

525
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: damn good Brandon Clark. I will know if Brandon Clark

526
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: can really shoot it, but I don't think it matters now.

527
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: They're they're tremendous team in a in a day and

528
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: age in which nobody has depth and few have depth

529
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: with experience. They have both and they're well coached. Um.

530
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: It's why I don't have any problem with people. It's

531
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: not just that they beat Duke, it's that they beat Duke,

532
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: and like Duke, I think they're both going to get better.

533
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: They haven't topped out yet one because they hadn't had

534
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: Killy and Tilly in too, because you know, Brendan Clark

535
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: still learning to play at this level after playing at

536
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: San Jose stayed previously. All Right, dude, listen, I completely

537
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: completely agree that their question is who does take the

538
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: big shot? Although you go back to the other night

539
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: against Washington and really took and made the big shot,

540
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: although he's wide open, which was kind of surprising. Nonetheless,

541
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: enjoy Southern California. We can follow, follow you on Twitter,

542
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: watch your stuff on stadium. Right, and another game together? Yeah,

543
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: o O do you some buddy on March January three, Marshall,

544
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: little John Elmore action there. So that'll be fun. And

545
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna prep because I gotta be prepared to in

546
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: the game with you. It'll be fun. Thanks for joining us.

547
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: Letter Alright, a couple lot of things here on All Ball. No,

548
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: the Lakers are not gonna sign Carmelo Anthony. I've told

549
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: you guys before. I've said on this podcast other podcasts.

550
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: Or chemistry is outstanding. So just think of this as

551
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: dumb and dumber. Right, what are you thinking of? One

552
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: in a million? So he's saying there's a chance. Okay, fine,

553
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: I actually think you could play in Golden State, like

554
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: in a Maurice space Mo Buckets role. Come off the bench,

555
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: Chuck a couple of you, he need hit some you

556
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: stay in. I actually think they could use that kind

557
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: of offense. I do um. I will also say this,

558
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: like we've gotten to this place where we feel the

559
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: need as media members to defame Kevin Durant, right, because

560
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: he thinks he's doing the world of service by calling

561
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: out the sycophants of the world that follow Lebron James

562
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: or the fans who honestly, like, here's the thing with

563
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: with k D. In many ways, he's right. He's saying

564
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: things that you're not supposed to say and maybe you

565
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: can't even say. But telling fans who are unruly and

566
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: say ridiculous things to athletes like you sat next to

567
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: these people for they don't belong in the arena, Like

568
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: that's not the whole point of coming there. And there's

569
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: a way to hecko and be funny, and there's a

570
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: way to just be mean and cruel, and I think

571
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of what he's what he's getting, Like, you're

572
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: you're an adult, don't m f me when I'm a player, right,

573
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: I am a human being, even if we don't want

574
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: them to act like human beings. But it's funny where

575
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: we've gotten with with k D. Right, here's the guy

576
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: averaging thirty points a game. Think about this. Has anybody

577
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: looked he's averaging thirty a game. He's shooting from the

578
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: field thirty four from three, which is a little bit

579
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: down um, and he's shooting from the free throw line,

580
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: averaging eight rebounds and six and a half assists, and

581
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: to block the game. And I've I've seen people say, oh, yeah,

582
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, k D, he's just nothing good. I'm like, what,

583
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: excuse me? He's amazing. It's amazing. So what you what

584
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: you have to do? And this is the I encourage

585
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: all my broadcasting friends will listen to this, and you

586
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: should do this if you're just a civilian. But this

587
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: is the challenge in my world. What I've always done

588
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: is that there's basketball coaches, basketball players that I don't like,

589
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: guys that I do like. Can you evaluate fairly even

590
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: if you don't like somebody, or even if you do

591
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: like somebody? And I think many media members they can't.

592
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: It's not just that their homers, it's that if they

593
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: feel like they're being called out by a guy, like

594
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: they're gonna be I've had beefs with Roy Williams before

595
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: I respect Roy Williams. I think he's done an amazing

596
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: job throughout his career. There are times in which, up

597
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: until recently, kind of always played the same way, and

598
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: I didn't allow I don't love some of the in

599
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: game substitutions, but I also haven't one the one eight

600
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: hundred games of his games. But like you know, these

601
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: are like, I don't allow any sort of pettiness, any

602
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: sort of beaf over you know, the rumor that he

603
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: might shut it down a couple of years ago when

604
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: his knees were bad and his best friend died and

605
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: he took offense to it. Like, I don't allow that

606
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: to affect my evaluation of Roy Williams as a coach,

607
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: either all time or his team this year. But most

608
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: people can't. They can't disassociate themselves from the real world

609
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: of feelings. I guess I don't have enough feelings. Kevin

610
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: Rans amazing, amazing, and the fact that people aren't pointing

611
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: out just how incredible a year he's having only proves

612
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: his point. Of the sycophants in the NBA covering Lebron,

613
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: but for Lebron and the Lakers, the chemistry is obscene.

614
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: I'd be embarrassed. If I was the Phoenix Sons at

615
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: throwing out eighteen points combined in their last two first quarters,

616
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: I just just start trading guys to Siberia. Man, But

617
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: I guess you become basketball side berea suspend. Dudes, they

618
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: don't want to guard, they don't want to play. Figure

619
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: out a way to get guys compete hard in that

620
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: because that it's amazing. They drafted Josh Jackson, they signed

621
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Tyson Chandler, they drafted Mikail Bridges. All guys seen his chemistry.

622
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: Guys in their chemistry has not gotten better, It's gotten worse, worse.

623
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: They're awful, awful. All right, we're gonna have We have

624
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: a couple of amazing pods. Wind up. Eric Musselman is

625
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: gonna join us next week. Rusty LaRue is set to

626
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: join us telling tell you about his journey. Rush of

627
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: the Room. Might be the greatest athlete in the history

628
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: of Wake Forest. I know Tim Duncan played at Wake Forest.

629
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: We'll get his story. He's told me he's gonna join

630
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: me in a pod. I've got a bunch of people

631
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: that have been texting me, Hey, dude, I want to

632
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: do a pod. Cool we'll do it. We'll pump some

633
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: more out. I hope you enjoyed it. Listen to the

634
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: radio show three to six Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio,

635
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: also available on Serious It's on next time two oh three,

636
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: UM and anyway and uh it's three to six Eastern

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Speaker 1: Time or twelve to three Pacific. Follow me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Gottleib Show, or on Facebook follow the Doug Gottlieb Show.

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Speaker 1: This is All b