WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 041021 ft. Dianne Post 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.920 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:03.800 rams is Jah. 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:04.560 They call me q. 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:09.320 Ward, but it's an abbreviation of my actual name, but 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.440 I'll get into that later. How you doing, Rams, I'm 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.040 good man, had a good week man, having yourself fantastic. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.160 We got esteemed company today. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:21.200 Yes, indeed we are joined on this show by the 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.119 one and only Diane Post. How you doing. 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.080 I'm doing good? But there are actually four Dyane Posts 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:28.880 in the Phoenix area. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:30.800 You know. Something tells me that you would know the 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.360 exact number, and so I'm the only lawyer though we 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:37.320 have the special one. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:38.959 You have the special one exactly. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.159 Indeed we do. And of course we're going to talk 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:49.320 about not just the voter suppression initiatives that are being 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.880 drawn up, voted on, and so forth. We're also going 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:55.920 to talk about a number of other things that are 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.800 beinging brought to vote in the city. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.600 In the state, in the state and the city too. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:04.160 Actually we can talk about that. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.959 Yeah, absolutely, But before we go too far past it, 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.280 I want people to know really who you are. So 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.479 let's give everyone a little bit of background about who's 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:15.759 joining us today on Civicsider. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.160 Well, I'm an attorney. I've been an attorney since nineteen 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:24.560 eighty before you parents were probably born. And I did 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.800 eighteen years here in Phoenix representing battered women and molested children, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.160 and so I did a lot of that and that 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.720 can really burn you right out. From there, I went 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.000 to doing international human rights law and I worked for ABA, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:42.360 the State Department Germany, a various variety of different groups, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:49.400 and I lived in six different countries Hungary, Russia twice 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.880 in Hungary, Cambodia, Kenya, Algeria, and then I worked in 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.960 fourteen others, so all over the former Soviet Union, and 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.600 then some other Africa countries that I worked in as well. 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.000 So that was all on human rights, primarily related to 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.120 violence against women and children, not solely, but primarily. And 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.920 then I also did the in Hungary, I worked with 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.560 the European Roman Rights Center. Do you know who Roma are? 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.320 They might you might call them gypsies, yes, but the 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.079 proper name is Roma. And so I represented them and 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.639 eventually brought a case against the United Nations. It's an 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:33.000 m versus unmik because of they placed the Roma refugees 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.239 from the War of the Balkans on lead poison land, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.920 which they knew was lead poison, and they said it 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.200 was for seven months and it was ten years before 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.520 we got them off of there, So that took out 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.840 a whole generation. I mean, it really destroys the children. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:53.920 And the same things happening where Flint, Chicago, Lesbos, Greece, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.240 Peru in a mining company, top mining town. So this 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:00.760 is still going on. And I won the case in 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.239 twenty sixteen. I started in twenty six so ten years 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.800 to win that case. Finally won the case in twenty sixteen. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.040 M and the United Nations has not paid one dime, 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.959 not one dime. So we're still fighting that, trying to 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.680 get the actual compensation for the people who were injured, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:19.720 and also an apology that they were told by the 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.560 court give them an apology. They won't even do that. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:25.799 They won't do that. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.560 So yeah, one of the other things that I did 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.360 when I was there was the Aroma very much look 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:38.040 at the African American black struggle as a model for them. 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.480 They really view the struggles that have gone on here 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.560 is what they've gone through, and I saw it, and 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.880 I'm old enough to have been in Chicago in nineteen 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:52.680 sixty three doing marches, and so they are living and 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.880 treated the way that African Americans were treated one hundred 0:03:55.960 --> 0:04:01.640 years ago. Oh third, wow, third women or second their 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.920 third And so they had me bring over the nobles. Oh, 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.560 it's very interesting. They had me bring over noble because 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.800 they wanted to bring the black police officers over to 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.240 talk to them about how they could respond appropriately to 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.000 the hostility the violence from the police in Europe against them. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:27.120 So they are the most discriminated against group in Europe. Absolutely. Well, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.200 we're doing a panel the end of May on this 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.760 and we're going to have the people from Peru, Greece, 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.640 the US. We also have the lawyer who did the 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.839 suit in Haiti. Remember when the UN came and everybody 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.680 got cholera from the UN soldiers that they brought over 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.520 from I forgot where somewhere, Yeah, And so they they 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.920 didn't even get as far as I did, but they 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:50.640 did sue the UN and again they didn't get fart. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.960 So part of the whole thing is holding institutions accountable, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.080 holding institutions accountable. 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:02.800 And that's something that I've gathered from your action alerts, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.960 the email that I get. So for those that don't know, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:12.039 Diane Post is very involved with the legal goings on 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.600 in the city and the state, and she has an 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:22.040 email list where she keeps folks like me, I mean, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.479 as informed as as we can be. And all we 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.040 need to do is just kind of peruse what's what's 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.080 up for vote. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.760 And most important to you that you want to take 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:32.880 time to respond on. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.280 Exactly exactly, And so we're going to talk about how 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.320 people can plug into that a little bit later on 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.880 in the show, because we want to talk about what's 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.440 on the floor as well. But this is who's joining 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.240 us today. So again, as Q mentioned, an esteemed guest, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:52.320 someone that is very much an ally and very much 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.360 obviously someone who's willing to get in the trenches and 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.400 and make some stuff happen. So thank you again for 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.880 joining us today. It's it's really an honor to to 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.200 even be able to stay with you. So so yeah, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.040 there's that. But there was something that happened this week 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.160 that Q and I decided that we wanted to talk about. 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:17.080 So we'll start there. And for those of you who 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.520 have the TMZ app on your phone, for those of you, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.560 you're I hear you, Q, I hear you signing, OK, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:30.320 but you know you might not really understand or you 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.719 might not be able to guess how how I'm going 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.520 to deal with this. But anyway, for those who have 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.279 the TMZ app, you might have seen. For those that 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.919 don't or don't really pay attention to TMZ, there was 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:48.120 an an uh AN officer last week. He was in 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.080 I want to say it was South Carolina, pulled over 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.960 a twenty year old with no headlights on on his car, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.320 and you pulled him out of the car at gunpoint 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.279 and it's all red ordered. There's a video of it. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.760 And the officer, of course, was very firm with the 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:09.000 young man and obviously, if there's a gun pointed at you, 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:10.560 you know you're gonna fear for your life. And that's 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.120 what the young man ended up saying. His mother, Uh, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.440 if I remember correctly, she was able to watch the 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:21.520 whole thing as it unfolded, and uh, you know, I 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.880 have been pulled out of a car at gunpoint by 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.920 the police before, and you know, and Q and I 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:29.680 we talk about these sorts of things all the time, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.600 and so I wanted to go through this on the 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.520 show so that we can really look at it. And 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.080 I'm gonna I'm gonna look at it from the side 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:45.240 of the officer, because if I'm honest, you know, that's 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.240 kind of a step in the right direction the way 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.200 the officer handled it. So first off, I want to 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.960 hear your thoughts on on a Q talk to me. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.640 Ram just pointed out that I there was an audible sigh. 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.600 And when we first sat down and had our first 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.960 conversation about what we thought this platform could and would 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.920 provide to people, we were very, very aware and very 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.520 I don't want to say self conscious, but we were. 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.960 We never wanted it to become an echo chamber, and 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.520 we never wanted to look at each other and say, man, 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:28.240 are we talking about this again? Yeah, just to not 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.720 exhaust our listeners, you know what I mean, to not 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.800 wear on them, and to have this content that's so 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.040 heavy that it's exhausting to say and exhausting to listen to. 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:46.200 The audible side was more about us having another one 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:52.120 of these situations to talk about. Sure this one did 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.080 not play out the way many have. And I think 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.360 we're both kind of you know that SI is more 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.480 relief at that point, and you and I are I 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.920 don't know if the term survivor is proper, but you 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.320 and I, but you and I together are survivors of 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:18.760 a hostile interaction with law enforcement. So you know, these 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.439 situations for those of you who have not had the 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:27.640 pleasure of going through them, resonate differently. When you have. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.240 It's from a it's more more of a first person account, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.360 and you're kind of reading, watching and hoping when I 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.360 get to the end of this, I hope that this 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.840 young man, or this family, or this young woman that 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.440 they get to go home to their families, and we 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.880 can be upset about things not going the way that 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.760 they should have, but relieved that they didn't go the 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:52.760 way that they could have. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:53.760 Exactly. 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.320 So, I'm going to pass the ball back to Ramses. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.800 But when I forwarded the mess to you, it was 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.960 more of it was more to see how it would 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.000 bounce off of you, right, because we see so many 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.520 of these cases, we see so many examples of things 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.200 that go horribly wrong. There was some nuance to this 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.360 when I thought that you would appreciate it, and I 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:17.559 thought our audience would as well. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:24.800 So let's provide the nuance. In this instance, there had 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.040 just been a shooting, like I believe a house in 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.640 South Carolina. There was a shooting at a house, and 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:40.040 so the police were already looking for someone who might 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.200 have been moving suspiciously, or might have been trying to 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:49.280 be conceal themselves or whatever. So from the officer's perspective, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.080 if you see a car with no headlights, that's probably 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:59.320 something worth investigating. That's fair. In my opinion, that's fair. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.520 And when you when you see the interaction, you recognize 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:10.600 that the officer is again firm, but doesn't really lose 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:16.160 you know it, you know, hear me out, It doesn't 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.640 really lose it as illustrated by the fact that the 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:25.680 kids still alive, and you know that we've been having 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.160 these conversations and we have to be fair. We have 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.880 to understand that. Okay, if they say it's a tough 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.160 job to be a police officer, and I've never been 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.320 a police officer, that's something that I can allow. I 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.680 can we can admit that to the to the record. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.240 That can be a part of this conversation. It's a 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.040 tough job. It might be scary when you're responding to 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.160 a shooting at a house, you know, and you see 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.240 a car with no headlights, because if that's the right person, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:55.920 there might be a gun in that car, and I 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.480 might need to move with a degree of caution. That's fair, 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:01.840 and you know it far be it from me to 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.440 make the case for the police, but I will be 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:13.760 fair and I expect the same right. But you know, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.320 when you first get these messages, and when I first 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.600 got the message sent to my phone, it's very alarming. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.600 And as Q mentioned, this is something that and as 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.559 I mentioned, this is something that I've lived through myself 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.679 in brief, and I believe I shared this story once 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.840 before on the show. But in brief, I was nineteen 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.080 years old. I was still in school. I was on 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.679 my way to class, and I had my cousin in 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:40.520 the car with me, and my cousin had just moved 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.160 to Arizona from California. He was having an asthma attack. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.959 The climate is different here. He could not breathe. I'm 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.640 only saying this because it's relevant to the story. My 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.280 cousin is six foot six and extra dark skin. I 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.679 think if Shaq and jay Z had a baby, that 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.880 would be my cousin. He's not the sort of person 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:05.240 that you know, are going to whatever comes to mind. 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.640 You know, if, especially if you're afraid of black skin. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.520 This is what happened to to my cousin and I. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.920 So I went to the bank. I was driving a 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.160 bright yellow Dodge Knee. I remember this is around the 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.160 time of Fast and Furious. So I got almost two 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.959 hundred dollars Maco paint jobs, put some eighteen's on my car, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.480 and I was the man nineteen right, but a bright 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.160 yellow Dodge Knee. It's a very visible car. Went to 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.360 the bank, pulled out money from the ATM. This is 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.360 days before cash app and all that sort of stuff. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.200 I was gonna buy my cousin in and haler so 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.199 he could breathe while I went to class. As soon 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:39.959 as I left the bank parking lot, please get behind 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:50.880 me out of nowhere. And because I'm me and conscious, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:52.679 I don't like the police behind me. I know that 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.440 that can lead to bad things. So I immediately turned 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.440 down a neighborhood street to let this officer go on 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.840 his way because I hadn't been on the road long 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.600 enough for him to get behind me. Because I hadn't 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.720 done any there was no moving for me to have 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.960 a moving violation. Turn down the next street I find, 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.600 and the officer follows me. But when I'm looking out 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.199 the rear view, but now I see a second car 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.560 behind him. So I'm like, oh, oh, they are on 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.679 to me. And then they turn on the lights, pull 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.880 me over, and you know, I know the drill at 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.960 this point in my life, so you know, they're on 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.240 the horn and they're telling me what to do. Stick 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.800 your you, throw your keys out the window, stick your 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.960 hands out the window with your left hand, open the door, 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:34.840 push the door away from you, keep your hands up, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.680 you know, step out of the car, walk back to 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.160 the sound of my voice, and I'll never forget it. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.440 If you make any sudden movements, we will kill you. Now. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.000 We will shoot you, not we will wound. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:45.200 You or whatever. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.400 And it's it's the most terrifying thing that you could 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:53.880 ever hear. I don't hide my emotions on this show. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.920 I don't think that I'm a weak person. And if 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:00.800 I feel something, I I feel it all the way 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.840 through and through. That was one moment in my life 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.040 when I did not cry. I was too afraid to cry. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.040 I never I'm from Compton, California. I never thought I 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.040 was going to die until that moment. It was the 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.800 wildest thing. I was like, They're going to kill me. 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.120 What did I do? What's wrong? And of course you 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.480 know it's for their protection, but it's so weird because 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.960 there's supposed to protect us, I know, right, anyway, let 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:26.440 me let me, let me get the story off, because 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:27.480 I do want to hear I want to hear both 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:32.240 of your reactions if I can, So you know, I'm 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.480 walking back. And then they asked me to lift my 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.120 shirt up. So I remember I'm facing away from the 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.040 officers are all behind me. I reached down, I lift 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.120 up my shirt. I didn't make any set of movements, 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.240 and so you could see my waist and that I 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.520 didn't have any weapons on my waist or whatever. I 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.520 think that's kind of the point of that. And then 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.840 they asked me to rotate slowly. And when I rotated, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.240 remember I said there was two police cars. Well now 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.840 there's like eight, and they all have guns like shot 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.760 and handguns, and they're behind doors and this whole thing right, 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.160 And now it's like you know that feeling when the 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.680 blood goes from away from your face and your everything 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.680 is cold and your heart is beating like so hard 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.760 on your chest and and it feels like your heart 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.640 is moving you and everything you think is like I'm 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:24.960 doing the wrong thing. I'm doing the wrong and it 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.200 you panic. And this is why I know what panic 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.840 looks like, because I was there, and your brain says 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.240 run your Your instincts say hide behind the car. You 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.560 know there's wet there. They can they're gonna take this 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.680 is it. And people say your life lashes before your eyes. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.520 That is so absolutely true. And it goes like that, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.720 and it's black and white, and and I remember this feeling. 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.400 That's all I got to do. That's all the life 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.360 I got to live. There was there was more what 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.920 what what happens tomorrow? It's a it's a it's a bear. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.080 I felt so defeated looking at those weapons pointed at me. 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:08.520 I was going to school, man, So you know, I'm terrified, 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:14.040 And somehow I mechanically managed to still cooperate. You know, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.840 it was kind of like out of body. It was 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.480 like I was controlling my own body with a remote control, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.120 like a remote control car. And I didn't quite understand 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.080 the control. So I'm like watching myself, just try my 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.520 best to cooperate with these orders from this officer. Anyway, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.440 I get back back far enough. I'm looking away now. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.960 My heart's beating, you know, I'm backing toward the officers 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:37.560 they get me and they put me in handcuffs, and 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.120 I remember they were so mean they could like cut 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.640 my arms up and I was bleeding. I remember when 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.720 I went to class, my teacher, doctor Westerberg, she wanted 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.240 to make a report because my hands were all cut 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.119 up and they like grabbed my arms with the with 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:50.040 the handcuffs. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:50.280 Right. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.080 But I remember I told you about my cousin six ' six, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.640 dark skin. They asked him to get out of the car. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.480 Now he can't breathe still can't breathe. We had we 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.600 had just left the bank to get the money, so. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.920 He can't believe he can't breathe before before. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.280 Already having a medical issue, and we're going to go 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.160 to like the drug store or a pharmacy to get 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.560 a hitler. So they pull him, they get him out 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.320 of the car, same thing. They're just talking to him 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.639 and I when when I stood when he stood up 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:21.960 from the car, I was like, oh my god, cause 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:27.760 he stands so tall, you know, and beautiful man, you know, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.760 beautiful to look at, but intimidating if you're taught that 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.919 that's what a criminal looks like, or that's what a 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.080 gang banger looks. My cousin has never been in a gang. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:40.240 He plays basketball. He's the funniest person you would ever meet. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.159 Means no, he's a huge teddy bear. But you know, 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.359 if you're looking at him and you're trained to see 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.719 them him as the enemy, and that's exactly they were 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.760 treating him. And I'm like, you guys, don't get it. 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.640 He's not Why are you so mad? You know? And 0:18:52.720 --> 0:19:02.320 he kind of kind of succumbed to those instincts a 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.719 little bit more than I did. He wasn't as composed, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.119 and he's kind of big and awkward, you know. So 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.000 when they're telling him to pick up his pants, his shirt, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:11.720 his shirt is a lot bigger than mine, you know, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.480 and he's you know, he's he's been down and got 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.040 you know, and he's trung. And when he moves, it's 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.080 there's a grand movements, these la this large figure moving around. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.960 And so I saw it play out, and I saw 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.359 how much more threatening he could have looked to them all. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.600 But he couldn't breathe he's trying to cooperate and he's 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:37.160 awkward already, and so they were so mean to him, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.280 and I was. I I just remember being helpless, like, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.560 oh my God, they're going to kill my cousin, you know, 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.480 and uh, you know, I love him. He's older than me, 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.119 and he's he's always loved me. And I'm just watching 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.520 it happen, and again that feeling of being defeated, like 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.520 there's you just have to watch the rest of this 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.960 play out. So not to be too dramatic, they bring 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:03.280 him back to the car, a different car, and then 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.480 they go through my car and then they take out 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.200 my backpack and they throw my homework on the ground, 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.240 and then they went through my back seat and you know, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.040 remember this is all fast and furious times. So I 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:15.960 have like speakers in my car and I have like, 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:19.399 I don't know whatever else was in there, and it 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.199 wasn't the cleanest car, but you know, it was my car, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.359 and they I just remember they took my homework and 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.200 they emptied out my backpack on the on the street 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.000 and it wasn't even the sidewalkers in the street, and 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.919 they were just looking for whatever. And I had twenty 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.560 dollars and they asked me where did I get the 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.280 twenty dollars from? And I said, that's why I went 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.119 to the bank. And I was like I was going 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.840 to buy an inhaler for my cousin because he just 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.399 came here from California. He doesn't have any money, he 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.399 doesn't have a job, and he needs to He can't breathe. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.119 He couldn't breathe all night. That's why we're up so early. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:58.200 And finally they said that, okay, well you fit the 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.600 description of suspicious characters or suspicious persons or something, and 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:07.600 you can go. And I remember asking, well, can I 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.720 have can somebody give me a note or somebody can 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:13.800 have your name or something, because my teacher's gonna be 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.600 mad because I'm gonna be late for school and I 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.840 still have to go help my cousin, you know. And 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:21.480 I remember that gave me the name and all that 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.560 sort of stuff. Anyway, when school lived it, lived through it, 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.640 it was fine. But I want to maintain I lived 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.720 in Compden, California in the eighties, never had a gun 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.320 pulled on me. The only time my life I ever 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:33.600 had a gun pulled on is by the police. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:34.080 Isn't that weird? 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.400 They're supposed to help. But this is not a beat 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:42.359 up on the police a story as much as it 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:49.680 is to illustrate how interactions often tend to go in 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:54.240 at least my personal experience, and then of course that 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.560 fits the larger narrative and how we understand the way 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:02.520 that police tend to interact with black, particularly young black folks. 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.240 But the reason why there's some parallels to this story 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:11.560 here the one we saw in TMZ, is because they're 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.720 very similar circumstances. The officers are doing their job. In 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.160 the instance with me, they were looking for someone who 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.359 had just robbed the bank, which I thought was very unfair. 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.320 Remember I was driving a bright yellow Dodge Neon, which 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.240 I don't think is the type of getaway car that 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.720