Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobble Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: Truly a treat to have my guest today, Bick Jones, producer, songwriter,
Speaker 1: Mr Foreigner Mick So glad to have you. Hey, good
Speaker 1: to be here, Bob. Okay, how did you end up
Speaker 1: producing Van Halen? Did I do that? Yes? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: unforgettable by the way, But really I believe it was
Speaker 1: sort of put together by John Kalodner. Of course you've
Speaker 1: been familiar with him, of course, of course, but Kladner
Speaker 1: at the time was working a Geffen. Oh that Sammy
Speaker 1: Hagar was with Jeff. Yeah, so I go a long
Speaker 1: way back with Sammy to the days when he was
Speaker 1: in a bank called Montrose of course, Ronnie Montrose. And
Speaker 1: how did you know him then? Because I we toured
Speaker 1: with him. I was in a band called Spooky Tooth
Speaker 1: of course. Uh. And I came to the States basically
Speaker 1: around seventy three, seventy four. I've been before, but to
Speaker 1: to settle down here right way. And I remember on
Speaker 1: the drive up to the studio he said, Mike, he said,
Speaker 1: you and I have been through some pretty wild times,
Speaker 1: you know, they said, but not like this. He said
Speaker 1: to get ready, and that was his kind of warning
Speaker 1: that I was about to enter into this different kind
Speaker 1: of world. It was it as different as he built it. Um,
Speaker 1: not really, but you know, I've had I've had quite
Speaker 1: a lot of experience in the in studios, you know,
Speaker 1: so I was kind of ready for anything. And it
Speaker 1: was just I mean, they they had their their repertoire
Speaker 1: down the songs really, so when you went in there,
Speaker 1: they had all the songs. Um. Yeah, there were a
Speaker 1: couple of a couple of like dream dreams, and I
Speaker 1: worked very intensely with Sammy on that. Vocal performances are
Speaker 1: my sort of specialty. I can get seemed to be
Speaker 1: able to get the best out of people and okay,
Speaker 1: a couple of things. So was it a clotner? Of
Speaker 1: course Sammy was on Geffen, whose literal idea was to
Speaker 1: get you involved. Um. Well, I think Sammy was something
Speaker 1: to do with it. Um. I can't recall having an
Speaker 1: explanation for it, but it was I think, Um, he
Speaker 1: felt that I was a good choice as far as
Speaker 1: you know, um, the vocal performances on the songs, and
Speaker 1: he I believed in me, I guess as as Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I guess Ted Templeman had done the David Lee Roth records.
Speaker 1: This was the first record with Sammy Hagar, so it
Speaker 1: was a whole new thing. So what was it like?
Speaker 1: How much input did they let you have? Um? Pretty much,
Speaker 1: I could say what I wanted. I wasn't restricted or
Speaker 1: intimidated by anything. Um, it was for me. It was
Speaker 1: branching out the first kind of major project I've done
Speaker 1: outside of a foreigner, you know. And there was you know,
Speaker 1: they had just gone through the departure of David Lee Roth,
Speaker 1: so there was an air about it that said, we're
Speaker 1: going to show him kind of thing, you know, and
Speaker 1: and I picked up on that. Uh. And I've I've
Speaker 1: met David before, you know, and always got on quite
Speaker 1: well with him. But uh, Sammy had to fill We'll
Speaker 1: not fill those shoes. But it had to be you know,
Speaker 1: pretty rock into you know, to do that first album
Speaker 1: with him, and I settled in pretty quickly. Again. Um,
Speaker 1: there was an engineer, Don Landy, who had done most
Speaker 1: of their hed, done all the engineering with Ted Templement
Speaker 1: and so I was I realized what I a little
Speaker 1: bit about what I was, what I was getting into,
Speaker 1: you know, And there was a little animosity there because
Speaker 1: they hadn't they were breaking away from Ted, and I
Speaker 1: believe Don Landy was sort of assumed that he was
Speaker 1: going to take over the mantel. So that was a
Speaker 1: tricky little period. But ah, as the project went on,
Speaker 1: I think we started to develop a respect for each
Speaker 1: other and we ended up being the best of friends.
Speaker 1: Wonderful engineer. I was so happy to work with him.
Speaker 1: You know, he did some classic stuff and he knew
Speaker 1: what he was doing, and you know, it was very
Speaker 1: much an analog type album in the studio up at Eddie's,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was it was I'd say, I heard
Speaker 1: about their father. I don't want to go too much
Speaker 1: into the family roots, and he came up to the
Speaker 1: studio one day and the brothers were kind of fooling
Speaker 1: around and it turned into a bit more than that,
Speaker 1: and their father was kind of geeing them on to
Speaker 1: kind of fetified with each other and kind of like
Speaker 1: cheering them on and say get him and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Really yeah, I mean he seemed to
Speaker 1: be a perfectly nice guy, you know, I know he
Speaker 1: was apparently a good musician too. You know, my favorite
Speaker 1: song on that album and you may not have stories
Speaker 1: about every song is best of both worlds with the dynamics.
Speaker 1: Can he tell us anything about that? Um well? Actually,
Speaker 1: one of my main thing areas I thought could be
Speaker 1: improved upon was the drum sound, which I had to
Speaker 1: be careful because I didn't want to change it right,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to get a better sound that would
Speaker 1: kind of a nucleus for the others to the playoff.
Speaker 1: Slightly different approach, you know, I you know, not to
Speaker 1: concentrate on the on the drums, but they are the
Speaker 1: foundation of everything, and I felt that I could bring
Speaker 1: something a little bit extra in that department. And but
Speaker 1: working with Alex, it was it was an experience. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a fun, crazy guy really, and I hear he's
Speaker 1: doing well these days, you know. You know, I know Eddie,
Speaker 1: I don't know Alex, but I know that Alex is
Speaker 1: really more of the business guy. I hear he's doing
Speaker 1: pretty well, but I I don't encounter him. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: were you talking about making the drums differently or having
Speaker 1: him played differently, No, not play differently, more more of
Speaker 1: sound wise, you know, And was he amenable to that
Speaker 1: or was he like, hey, don't mess with me. Um Well,
Speaker 1: he didn't hear it, you know, completed until the album
Speaker 1: was almost complete and the mixing was that was really
Speaker 1: the moment of truth and he said what he said,
Speaker 1: drum sounded great, man, Okay, thanks okay, And uh, what's
Speaker 1: your favorite foreigner song? Mm hmm, Well it sounds corny,
Speaker 1: but it feels like the first time was the one
Speaker 1: that started it out. You know. It was the first
Speaker 1: song I wrote for for for a band which I
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about, and I when I kind of
Speaker 1: put the band together, I still didn't know what we
Speaker 1: were gonna do. Were we gonna do it as you
Speaker 1: know where We're gonna form a band that was respectable
Speaker 1: and good and could maybe sell a few, you know, records,
Speaker 1: And so that was very uh that that I was
Speaker 1: listening to an album that Lou had done with a
Speaker 1: bank called Black Sheep back then, and I was listening
Speaker 1: to the little demo I Don't Have feels like the
Speaker 1: first time, and I suddenly heard the band. The instrumental
Speaker 1: track was through you know, channeling him somehow, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: he might be the voice that I'm looking for. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he wasn't in the band when you've written the song,
Speaker 1: no well, all I remember is I remember hearing that
Speaker 1: song on the red This is you know, people talk
Speaker 1: about certain things, one about hearing a record in a radio,
Speaker 1: record record in a record store and then buying I
Speaker 1: had that happened once with Genesis, Wind and Wathering in
Speaker 1: terms of hearing a song on the radio and literally
Speaker 1: driving to the record store buying the album because I
Speaker 1: had to hear it over the mead. It only happened
Speaker 1: with me once, and it was feels like the first time,
Speaker 1: the first one. I mean I remember where I bought it.
Speaker 1: I'm music honesty and will sure, but it's now a uh,
Speaker 1: you know, workout equipment store. But I literally was up
Speaker 1: on the wall. I had to buy it. And at
Speaker 1: that point the only people we knew were, you know,
Speaker 1: the people who ended up not being in the band
Speaker 1: after a period of time, so it was all new.
Speaker 1: But the sound of that record, I had a good
Speaker 1: stereo at that particular time, you could crank it up
Speaker 1: on the j b LS. You know, I was just unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I mean this type of did you know it would
Speaker 1: explode like that? Well? I had an experience. Um I
Speaker 1: was doing an interview with Scott Muni and um, he said,
Speaker 1: I'm driving over the tribe of Bridge and I hear
Speaker 1: this song a man, he said, that's music to roll
Speaker 1: the window down and floor it. And and there was
Speaker 1: a there's a big hit on the Tom Toms in
Speaker 1: the beginning, and it takes the signal at a radio
Speaker 1: station and it disappears for five seconds ten seconds. But
Speaker 1: you know, it sounded good, sounded great, and just that
Speaker 1: moment with Scott, you know, was like, wow, this must
Speaker 1: have could this be something? You know? And up till
Speaker 1: then I figured we try and put a band together
Speaker 1: that wasn't comprised of of journeymen, you know. It was
Speaker 1: three young Americans, pretty green, and then of course Ian
Speaker 1: McDonald and Denniss Eliot who did have experience, you know,
Speaker 1: and and then Lou and then we were off to
Speaker 1: the races. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're
Speaker 1: from where in the UK? I was born in the
Speaker 1: West Country. Are you familiar with Let's put this way,
Speaker 1: I'm familiar, probably a little bit more than most Americans,
Speaker 1: but that is not much an Americans. We only focus
Speaker 1: on America, so give us some reference points. It's in
Speaker 1: the West Country, the kind of the toe down there
Speaker 1: right underneath Wales. Yeah, so what what would what town
Speaker 1: was this? Uh? Where I where I was born was Glastonbury,
Speaker 1: Glastonbury where they at the festival. And then where were
Speaker 1: you raised? I was raised in moved several times and
Speaker 1: I was raised basically in South London sorry, which is
Speaker 1: a a county kind of about ten miles from the
Speaker 1: center of London. Um. I later found out that Eric
Speaker 1: Clapton came from town five miles away from me, which
Speaker 1: I didn't know about at the time. I had a band.
Speaker 1: I had a little band. But what we did do
Speaker 1: was open for the stones a few times. It was
Speaker 1: a place called the Wooden Bridge. It was a pub,
Speaker 1: I mean, but the stones before they were the Stones okay,
Speaker 1: the wooden Bridge. And that was in Surrey. In Surry, Okay,
Speaker 1: what was that? Did you say, oh, this biond has
Speaker 1: got a future and to say, oh, they're never going
Speaker 1: to make it. Well, the band that I had was
Speaker 1: it was kind of a bluesy band with a bit
Speaker 1: of R and B. It was called hog Snort Rupert.
Speaker 1: I didn't come over that name, but good musicians and
Speaker 1: you know, gradually started to feel that hopefully I wasn't
Speaker 1: just going to do a regular job. You know, I
Speaker 1: was how were the stones that night? Those two nights
Speaker 1: they were They were sensational. Long John Bouldry was was
Speaker 1: in the on the bill. Really, yeah, that's quite a bill. Okay.
Speaker 1: So you grow up, let's you know. And how many
Speaker 1: kids in the family? Now there are seven? Now the
Speaker 1: kids in your family in English? Just my brother? Does
Speaker 1: your brother older or younger? Younger? And where's he today?
Speaker 1: He is in New York. He lives actually he lives
Speaker 1: in Miami. Okay. And you became a musician. What did
Speaker 1: he do? Um? He he was a great guitar player,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what it was. I couldn't quite
Speaker 1: get him out of his shell. He was. He loved music,
Speaker 1: you know, he had a great taste in music. Used
Speaker 1: to turn me onto things that I hadn't heard. And
Speaker 1: very very cool guy working with me on the road
Speaker 1: quite a lot. And so I up until the age
Speaker 1: of eleven, I was an only child. Oh he's eleven
Speaker 1: years younger. So what'd your father do for a living?
Speaker 1: He was a what he'd call now a but not
Speaker 1: public relations um. A guy that would interview people for
Speaker 1: jobs HR, human relations, human resource and what did he
Speaker 1: do that for what kind of company? The company that's
Speaker 1: supplied England during the wars with food and beverage, anything
Speaker 1: to do with that area. So it was renowned for
Speaker 1: its tea. It was the worst teas worth tea in England.
Speaker 1: What was the brand name, Oh gosh, back then it
Speaker 1: may have been PG chips or something. It was home brewed,
Speaker 1: I think really, and it was my you know, just undrinkable.
Speaker 1: So you're we're sort of a middle class family, I
Speaker 1: would say, sort of yeah, okay, and you grow up.
Speaker 1: Parents have a lot of involvement in your life where
Speaker 1: you're running around the streets doing whatever. Um. Yeah, to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, Uh, I lived in this little hamlet,
Speaker 1: you know, five miles from Glastonbury, so it was really
Speaker 1: steeped in history where you know, I lived in a
Speaker 1: little village that was you know, years old, and it
Speaker 1: was it was pretty desolate. It was you know, on Sunday,
Speaker 1: I was in the choir so we did that and
Speaker 1: then um, the rest of the day. It's kind of
Speaker 1: foggy for me what I used to do. But um,
Speaker 1: there will be nobody in the streets and I'd be
Speaker 1: walking around and saying when am I going to get
Speaker 1: out of here? And I used to go and see
Speaker 1: my more of you know, my family. They lived in Hampshire,
Speaker 1: which is down south too, and we used to have
Speaker 1: all our celebrations Christmas and everything down there with the
Speaker 1: big family. And I used to I used to get
Speaker 1: so down and we had to get in that car
Speaker 1: and drive back to you know, this little place in
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. And did your parents play music
Speaker 1: in the home. My father was a pianist and he
Speaker 1: he loved he loved jazz, right. He was a huge
Speaker 1: Errol Garner fan, so he used to hear a lot
Speaker 1: of that in the in the house. Um. Otherwise, Um,
Speaker 1: they were, they were very musical. They were music fans.
Speaker 1: But Dad had a secret inkling that he wanted to
Speaker 1: sort of try, and he had a friend who was
Speaker 1: a professional musician. Um, and I think he he would
Speaker 1: have taken that shot, you know, if it was just him.
Speaker 1: But he'd just come back from the war and there
Speaker 1: was a lot to do to get a life back
Speaker 1: together at that point. What did he do during the war,
Speaker 1: same thing, but he was then he joined the Marines,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like the American Marines a bit
Speaker 1: tough guys. Yeah, usually they're out there getting killed easily frontline.
Speaker 1: Did he see action? Yeah. Do you think that affected
Speaker 1: his life thereafter PTSD that kind of stuff, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so, I think. Um. I mean he was well
Speaker 1: respected within our family. He was the best educated. Um.
Speaker 1: He wanted them to give us a life that was
Speaker 1: comfortable and wanted me to have, you know, a a
Speaker 1: good education. So he was he was a wise man,
Speaker 1: you know. So he said he was educated. He went
Speaker 1: to what you would call university. Um. Yeah, he he
Speaker 1: went to university and in a city called Portsmouth. And
Speaker 1: how about yourself? No, I skipped that. So what did
Speaker 1: he say, the wise man who wanted to provide a
Speaker 1: better life for his family. Well, he and my mother
Speaker 1: sat me down one night. They'd seen a couple of
Speaker 1: gigs I've done with this band. They said, Michael, we
Speaker 1: have to Michael. They called, uh, we have to have
Speaker 1: a little chat. You know. We know you love this
Speaker 1: music and the rock was just coming in, you know
Speaker 1: and everything, but we don't feel it's a career that
Speaker 1: has very much lifespan to it. And I thought, oh god, no,
Speaker 1: they don't believe that I can do it. And I
Speaker 1: started to believe. I don't know what, but it I
Speaker 1: took a serious hit too, you know, feeling that they
Speaker 1: didn't believe in me. But that all changed later. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when did you start playing a musical instrument when
Speaker 1: I was the first time was probably when I was
Speaker 1: about six or seven. My grandparents had a piano um
Speaker 1: which I used to play every time I went to
Speaker 1: see them, and I just learned what I My father
Speaker 1: started me off on anchors away that military background and
Speaker 1: the holes of Montezuma right right, because you know I
Speaker 1: had I had an EP that was in second grade
Speaker 1: that had all four of the military anthem so I
Speaker 1: know those pretty well. Yeah, that's funny, um. And I
Speaker 1: just you know, I found my way around the piano
Speaker 1: a bit, all on the black keys, and that made
Speaker 1: that made it easier for me. But I remember, and
Speaker 1: I carried on on those black keys all the way
Speaker 1: through my my piano career. And I remember when I
Speaker 1: was working with Billy Billy Joel, he said, how the
Speaker 1: hell do you play cold as ice in those positions
Speaker 1: on the black keys? I said, I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: just the way I started started, and it stuck, you know,
Speaker 1: what was it like working with Billy Um great. I mean,
Speaker 1: have a tremendous respect for him. He's consummate musician. He's
Speaker 1: um very creative. You know, we got on very I
Speaker 1: had a few little confrontrations with him. From were the
Speaker 1: confrontations about um, just a couple of songs um what
Speaker 1: became aim We Didn't Start the Fire started out as
Speaker 1: a song called Joe Lene, and I thought, just a minute,
Speaker 1: I know that song and it was a similar kind
Speaker 1: of feel on it, and I felt it. I had
Speaker 1: to tell Billy, you know, said I'm scared that this
Speaker 1: is going to be controversial and you know, plagiaristic. And
Speaker 1: he looked at me and walked out of the room.
Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, he's ordered that all
Speaker 1: the time Life magazine is from nineteen when he was born,
Speaker 1: which was must have been He's a few years younger
Speaker 1: than me, I think. And he sat down, set himself
Speaker 1: in a room, and came out basically three days later
Speaker 1: with all the lyrics too. We Didn't Start the Fire,
Speaker 1: which is a chronological order, in chronological order of you know,
Speaker 1: the events, major events that happened in the world, And
Speaker 1: did you think that was going to be a monster hit?
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be different. He wanted
Speaker 1: to rock rock up a bit, you know, he wanted
Speaker 1: to let loose a bit, and that was one of
Speaker 1: the reasons I think he wanted to work with me,
Speaker 1: and also the fact that I was a songwriter too.
Speaker 1: He respected what I had done, and again I had
Speaker 1: to go into a situation where Phil Ramon had done
Speaker 1: all his You know, I knew Phil, So how did
Speaker 1: what was Billy's decision not to use Phil? Um It
Speaker 1: wasn't really anything to do with me. It was just
Speaker 1: a choice. We we met up in a Itsunian restaurant,
Speaker 1: just like the song, and we hit it off of me.
Speaker 1: We'd we'd seen each other around. You know, I kind
Speaker 1: of knew him a little bit, but um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: I I got a few um outside musicians to come in.
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to break the it's not formula
Speaker 1: but the style, just as I said to, you know,
Speaker 1: to make it a bit rock rockier. Okay, let's go
Speaker 1: back to growing up. So you play on the black keys,
Speaker 1: and when do you you ever have any piano lessons?
Speaker 1: And when do you pick up the guitar or is
Speaker 1: there another instrument in between? Uku lele Uku Lately now
Speaker 1: ukul lately, Okay, we're I realized radio was different then
Speaker 1: because you have the BBC and there was a limited
Speaker 1: amount of stuff, But it wasn't you know skiffle was
Speaker 1: big then, was it? Were you always into the popular music? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I am. I played a little skiffle band for a while.
Speaker 1: Lonnie Donegan songs it was it was actually they were
Speaker 1: big here too, Does your chewing gum lose its flavor?
Speaker 1: And wonderful hits they had. So how did you learn
Speaker 1: how to play the ukulele? My dad taught me. Taught
Speaker 1: me three chords and that was it. Immediately he taught
Speaker 1: me to play. I remember one of them was Anti sweet,
Speaker 1: just walking down the street and it got me and
Speaker 1: I learned those chords and I played them over and
Speaker 1: over again. I discovered about how the instrument worked, you know,
Speaker 1: and that was actually a very important move he made
Speaker 1: to give me that and to give me a couple
Speaker 1: of lessons, and that was the first time I felt
Speaker 1: music really, especially like Buddy Holly Ah, who was my idol.
Speaker 1: Completely like a lot of English guitar players. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've interviewed, he was, you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: like I'd seen a light, you know, there the awakening
Speaker 1: of it. And I went from there to to playing
Speaker 1: in a couple of local bands. As I said, you
Speaker 1: play the ukulele. You were playing ukulele in those people.
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, like a Spanish guitar. Okay. So you
Speaker 1: have the ukulele. What's the next guitar you get? It
Speaker 1: was a believe it's called a Hofner Senator. Okay. And
Speaker 1: you know, I had had a a friend at school
Speaker 1: who was a great guitar player. He played with Georgie Fame,
Speaker 1: and he kind of took me under his wing a
Speaker 1: bit and gave me a few pointers and lessons and stuff.
Speaker 1: And he played with Buddy not with Buddy Holly, well
Speaker 1: he did, actually, but he played with Jerry Lewis, h
Speaker 1: Eddie Cochrane legends. And he used to take me up
Speaker 1: to London when a tour was starting so I could
Speaker 1: hang out by the bus and see all my idols
Speaker 1: getting on the bus. Hey, listen, that's a thrill when
Speaker 1: you're that age. Oh man, it's a killer. Okay. So
Speaker 1: you had you had the Hofner and then you say
Speaker 1: you're playing Spanish guitar in bands? You know, acoustic guitar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at that point it was more rhythm stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: because you can't really I you can't really play for
Speaker 1: me right on an acoustic It's difficult. But um, so
Speaker 1: where were we? Okay, so you're playing in uh, you're
Speaker 1: playing you're in high school or whatever the equivalent what
Speaker 1: they're calling that in England. You start in the bands
Speaker 1: with Spanish guitar. When did you get an electrical um?
Speaker 1: Once I had formed a little nucleus of a band,
Speaker 1: which was pretty pretty cool little band actually, and I
Speaker 1: got a burns which looked a little bit like a
Speaker 1: les Paul. Wasn't anywhere near right as good as a spoil,
Speaker 1: but it looked good and it was cut away, and
Speaker 1: so I the first few months I I I played
Speaker 1: with that, and eventually my father bought me a s
Speaker 1: G les Paul s G and that was the beginning
Speaker 1: of hey, this is this is a ship. You know,
Speaker 1: I had the treasure it. My father was playing credit
Speaker 1: for it, you know, on credit um. And then with
Speaker 1: that guitar another year it started off for me and
Speaker 1: I joined a band, a professional band whose name was
Speaker 1: Nero and the Gladiators. I don't know whether you're any
Speaker 1: I don't think I can remember that one. They made
Speaker 1: a name. They were like, um, they made a name
Speaker 1: by taking classical pieces like in the Whole of the
Speaker 1: Mountain King and playing them instrumentally, and they had like
Speaker 1: two number top five hits. Really what year was that?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it's got to be sixty, probably even earlier.
Speaker 1: They had already been a band for a while, so
Speaker 1: early sixties. And what did you have for an amplifier? UM?
Speaker 1: I I was advised and I met a guy called
Speaker 1: Peppe in London who used to convert amps and customize them,
Speaker 1: and I got I got one of those. Uh somehow
Speaker 1: it did a deal and I ended up with that.
Speaker 1: Later in my career, I I ended up blending Steve
Speaker 1: Cropper that amp when they were doing the Stacks Motown
Speaker 1: Review and Paris, and I was like, wow, Steve Coffee
Speaker 1: right exactly. He was one of my early idols too.
Speaker 1: And but yeah, and then I bought UM. I've moved
Speaker 1: on from that guitar and eventually bought There was a
Speaker 1: quite a well known session guitar player in England called
Speaker 1: Big Big Jim Sullivan. He used to play on a
Speaker 1: lot of BOT records, and and that was his guitar.
Speaker 1: Later I got it stolen, but so it was literally
Speaker 1: his guitar, the same style. Oh really, what kind of
Speaker 1: guitar was it? It was a Gibson Stereo. And how
Speaker 1: did you get it? Um? I bought it in a
Speaker 1: store in London. Okay, let's go back to school. Are
Speaker 1: you a popular guy or you're the loner? What kind
Speaker 1: of person were you growing up? I think, well, I
Speaker 1: have to say I was pretty popular guy. I got
Speaker 1: chosen kind of to represent them, the weaker, you know,
Speaker 1: side of my class my year when it came to
Speaker 1: fights or put acting them and stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: I took a few hits on that that I wasn't well.
Speaker 1: My grandfather was a boxer, but um yeah, I was
Speaker 1: called upon from time to time just to warm people
Speaker 1: to stay away. Okay, so you play with Nero and
Speaker 1: the glady Eaters and what's the step after that? Um?
Speaker 1: I was with the band for about three months and
Speaker 1: gigging with them, wearing Roman right, No, Nero bore the toga? Oh?
Speaker 1: Is that what it was? What are the gladi Eaters
Speaker 1: were centurion skirts. We had chicks coming up to the
Speaker 1: front of the stage. I remember, you know, all looked
Speaker 1: trying to look under our skirts, and I kind of
Speaker 1: felt kind of weird when I got myself into here.
Speaker 1: And but we we were approached to play about a
Speaker 1: month tour in France and backing a a very well
Speaker 1: known rock singer who we went by the name of
Speaker 1: Dick Rivers from one of the Elvis movies. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of French artists chose American names. You know,
Speaker 1: it's weird. And we set off for France, and before
Speaker 1: I knew it, we were touring around France. I loved
Speaker 1: it because I that front French was my best subject
Speaker 1: at school, and my French teacher would reward his pupils
Speaker 1: by merit if they if they had done well in
Speaker 1: the class, he would give them copies of a magazine
Speaker 1: called Perry Match, probably familiar. And so you're in France
Speaker 1: backing up these people with Deary and the Gladiators. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but then you end up being in France for a
Speaker 1: long time. How does that it come to be? I
Speaker 1: was in France for a long time. I was in
Speaker 1: France for about seven years. Okay. So meanwhile, you know,
Speaker 1: across the channel rock music is going insane. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about being in France? Um, it was a
Speaker 1: chance ready to kind of grow up, cut my teeth,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of thing. Playing in the band wasn't bad.
Speaker 1: That was supporting her. We had a few of her
Speaker 1: musicians in the band. Um, and that's where I started
Speaker 1: to get to experience in the studio. Um. I h
Speaker 1: but I'm just trying to recall. It's a long time ago, Bob. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: But you ended up working with Johnny Holliday and writing songs.
Speaker 1: How did that all come to be? Um? I had
Speaker 1: a partner, his name was Tommy Brown, who had been
Speaker 1: the drummer with the Dick Rivers part of it, and
Speaker 1: we just somehow started writing together and in French. In French,
Speaker 1: well not in French, there was always a translator, yeah,
Speaker 1: which was very weird too. Every every hit in America
Speaker 1: or England got covered lyrically, and you know, the French
Speaker 1: translator would make like more money than the original writers
Speaker 1: and the song although he had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: it except right the French rics. But yeah, I with
Speaker 1: Johnny we started to he kind of I had been
Speaker 1: with playing with his wife. What was the wife's name,
Speaker 1: Sylvie Batan, and she was the star over there of
Speaker 1: the yea Yea. They called it the yea Yea period.
Speaker 1: It was time of there were riots in France and
Speaker 1: stuff like yuh. And that was that was the introduction
Speaker 1: to his wife, who saw me playing a part in
Speaker 1: a movie that she was in. She was singing songs
Speaker 1: in it and I was playing and her brother, who
Speaker 1: was the bandleader, came over to me and said, would
Speaker 1: you like to come down and work out with Sylvie
Speaker 1: and some songs? And of course I accepted it. It
Speaker 1: was because I was like broke, I didn't have anything
Speaker 1: I was. I used to spend my afternoons at pinball
Speaker 1: in the cafe, you know, and make a Coca cola
Speaker 1: last for a couple of hours. And so I jumped
Speaker 1: at the opportunity and cut a long story short. I
Speaker 1: started to work with Johnny and he also was part
Speaker 1: of that group that would sing American rock songs in French. Um.
Speaker 1: He was a really exciting front, you know, lead singer.
Speaker 1: Was he already Johnny Holiday sort of speak at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was kind of like joining Presley for for France
Speaker 1: used to blow me away, you know. His his stage
Speaker 1: act was sensational, you know, he was a real rocker
Speaker 1: at heart. He swear black, leather and and and a
Speaker 1: very powerful voice, not not what we would call a
Speaker 1: voice that would appeal so much in America. Why well,
Speaker 1: he had a um, a little deformation in what do
Speaker 1: they call it in his mouth the palette, I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: something to do with the palette. And unfortunately it was
Speaker 1: the rs that were difficult for him to pronounce. He'd
Speaker 1: seeing it, you know, we were and of course walk
Speaker 1: and wall it was a very important term. So he
Speaker 1: had trouble with that um. But he he worked very
Speaker 1: hard at it, and we started to write Tommy and
Speaker 1: I started to write for him. Decided to then that
Speaker 1: went into producing his his albums, and before I knew it,
Speaker 1: we'd we'd had about five or six top ten records.
Speaker 1: And you know, that was like the first time I
Speaker 1: had seen money, That's the obvious question. And he kind
Speaker 1: of took me under his wing as like a younger brother.
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, it was you know, you could could
Speaker 1: say his lifestyle was James Dean and and Presley, you know,
Speaker 1: so it was kind of like living that little subworld
Speaker 1: under that. And how did you come back to the UK? Well,
Speaker 1: I figured um. I was doing quite well, and I
Speaker 1: remember I was playing golf in a country house in
Speaker 1: Normandy where I had ended up renting a house, which
Speaker 1: was like unbelievable, and I was starting to get come
Speaker 1: a little comfortable financially, and suddenly I felt came over
Speaker 1: and sort of felt weird it. What am I doing?
Speaker 1: You know, one of my I'm here and I'm getting
Speaker 1: quite successful, but I'm not really I'm going to go
Speaker 1: very far off, you know, with this, and I want
Speaker 1: to you know, really get into a band and and
Speaker 1: pursue you know, music that I wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: so I you know that part of that was the
Speaker 1: writing and everything, and I thought, I can't do this anymore,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got to make my way back to
Speaker 1: England and start over. And basically that's what I did.
Speaker 1: I I was playing in Paris and that night it
Speaker 1: was a kind of a bar where musicians used to go,
Speaker 1: called the Rock and Roll Circus, and I was introduced
Speaker 1: to Gary Wright and to Jimmy Miller, who was a
Speaker 1: producer at the time. Did the Stones, did Traffic legendary guy,
Speaker 1: But he did the Stones, He did Traffic jen legendary guy.
Speaker 1: Oh he He was like kind of sort of an
Speaker 1: idol for me. UM and he had worked closely with Gary.
Speaker 1: They were actually school friends, and somehow through that introduction
Speaker 1: we all got on really well, and Gary asked me
Speaker 1: to get in touch with him, and before I knew it,
Speaker 1: I was playing with Gary Wright in a band at
Speaker 1: that time called Wonder Wheel, which was sort of gary
Speaker 1: solo project. Um the and then I joined Spooky Tooth
Speaker 1: and that was that became quite an important part of
Speaker 1: my They were a pretty soulful band. They were progressive,
Speaker 1: but soulful, and they had a groove, you know, they had.
Speaker 1: It was a pretty big prestigious move to be chosen
Speaker 1: to be in that band, and so it was. It
Speaker 1: was a good experience for a couple of years. And
Speaker 1: then UM some relationships within the band had not been
Speaker 1: healed from when they broke up the first time, and
Speaker 1: gradually it's sort of disintegrated and I was left high
Speaker 1: and dry in New York, Um basically relying on money
Speaker 1: that I was getting still from France. What did everybody
Speaker 1: see in France? Like Johnny Holiday when you left? Um,
Speaker 1: he was pretty upset. In fact, a few months ago,
Speaker 1: I before he passed. Yeah, I had dinner with him
Speaker 1: and I kind of asked him. I said, do you
Speaker 1: forgive me? And he said, well, I said I didn't
Speaker 1: at the time, but I feel like that. I was
Speaker 1: pretty upset, but I believe you made the right move. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's so many great guitars come out of the UK.
Speaker 1: How good guitars were you in that era? Um? I
Speaker 1: was a little different, you know. I I had developed
Speaker 1: a little bit of a style. UM. I wouldn't rate myself,
Speaker 1: as you know, any kind of particularly gifted guitar player.
Speaker 1: I played like a combination of rhythm and read. That
Speaker 1: was good. I had a good rhythm, but as far
Speaker 1: as um you know, being a prodigy or anything like that,
Speaker 1: had to leave that to Eddie. Tried to teach me
Speaker 1: how to tap? Will you ever get it? Kind of
Speaker 1: we ended up like just you know, laughing and fooling around.
Speaker 1: It was funny. Okay, so you're high, the beat, spooky
Speaker 1: tooth breaks up, You're high and dry. In New York
Speaker 1: that was and then um I can't remember how it started,
Speaker 1: but I was being managed by Bud Braeger. Okay, I
Speaker 1: do Bud. How did you hook up with Bud? Basically? Um?
Speaker 1: He Bud was a partner with Gary Kerry first also
Speaker 1: passed away. Yeah yeah, unfortunately, and they had both together
Speaker 1: managed Mountain and they broke up and somehow Gary ended
Speaker 1: up with Phoenix Popularity, and I mean Bud filled it
Speaker 1: up with Phelix representing him and then Bud represented them Leslie,
Speaker 1: which was a kind of a bizarre sort of way
Speaker 1: to end it. Leslie was much friendier, more friendly with Felix,
Speaker 1: and he didn't really know how to handle Leslie. Okay,
Speaker 1: just so I know, wait I thought, because Bud said
Speaker 1: Felix was his best friend when they broke up, kurf first,
Speaker 1: and uh that Felix went with kur first, okay, and
Speaker 1: Leslie went with Bud. And how did you end up
Speaker 1: with Bud? Um? I joined the Leslie westband. Ah, so
Speaker 1: who was in the band at the same time, just
Speaker 1: really Quirky Lang and the bass player I can't remember
Speaker 1: his name, Quirky Lang with all the iterations. Okay, So
Speaker 1: then how do you then? Okay, so you joined after
Speaker 1: New York, you end up being in the Mountain Band,
Speaker 1: and then what's next for you? Well, we we did
Speaker 1: an album which wasn't wasn't a bad album, chob was
Speaker 1: that it was called the Leslie Westbound. Some decent songs
Speaker 1: I wrote or co wrote most of them, and that
Speaker 1: was another stepping stone, a bit um and working with
Speaker 1: Leslie wants to He's great guitar player. I still admire
Speaker 1: him a lot, and so I picked up a few
Speaker 1: little things from him. I always, you know, I'm I
Speaker 1: am a I like learning. I never feel that I
Speaker 1: know it all, you know, I feel that try and
Speaker 1: stay humble about it anything. But life became unmanageable with
Speaker 1: Leslie at that time, unfortunately, and he was m just
Speaker 1: impossible to heal. Whether he was I don't really want
Speaker 1: to go into what he was doing, but not good.
Speaker 1: And all that started to break down. And one day
Speaker 1: we were stuck somewhere in Florida, and what Lessardy would
Speaker 1: do would be to take the money from the promoter
Speaker 1: and leave us kind of high and dry, and then
Speaker 1: he would steer a guitar from the opening act, jump
Speaker 1: on a plane and go down to Manny's and sell
Speaker 1: it all to support is Trugs. And it became a nightmare.
Speaker 1: And I told I confronted Bud one day and I said,
Speaker 1: what kind of fucking manager do you think you are
Speaker 1: what we've got to do something for for for Leslie,
Speaker 1: you know, he's so um. Bud was kind of a
Speaker 1: bit miffed at that, and I said, look, if you
Speaker 1: you want to be a manager and prove yourself, because
Speaker 1: I don't think you have yet, I'll bet you I
Speaker 1: can put something together within a year with with your help,
Speaker 1: you know, financially helped out. And it became a competition
Speaker 1: as to who could be the most successful, will achieve
Speaker 1: their dream as it were. It was kind of bizarre
Speaker 1: in a way, but it was the motivation. And he said,
Speaker 1: you'd better start writing some songs then, you know, And
Speaker 1: suddenly I'm on the spot and started writing songs and uh,
Speaker 1: basically from there, uh, the song started to come. And
Speaker 1: that's where it all kind of took place, the formation
Speaker 1: of the band. Felix had had a studio up in
Speaker 1: Bud's offices on Broadway, and he had a studio in
Speaker 1: there that he used to record um bands, up and
Speaker 1: coming bands, or you know, just as a rehearsal space.
Speaker 1: And I kind of took that over and Bud was
Speaker 1: next door and so every half an hour he bob
Speaker 1: his head and yeah, it's a funny relationship. But he
Speaker 1: Without him, I don't think I would have had the
Speaker 1: motivation and you know, the moment of well, you have
Speaker 1: to brood yourself here. And so that little pact we
Speaker 1: made became the backbone of our relationship, and the combination
Speaker 1: of his experience and mine somehow seemed to gel and
Speaker 1: we exchanged you know, um stories, and we'd would be
Speaker 1: in the office until ten at night, you know, just
Speaker 1: coming and trying to come up with things that would
Speaker 1: make this thing a special And so he kind of
Speaker 1: how to talk with his wife because we needed money
Speaker 1: to put this together, and he kind of talked her
Speaker 1: into giving us an initial sum of money, which was
Speaker 1: about somewhere like eighty grand at the time, to pay
Speaker 1: all the musicians. You know, it wasn't a great big budget,
Speaker 1: but and everything happened in that little room. So you
Speaker 1: cut the first album in that little rooms, Okay, cut
Speaker 1: the demos, so essentially everything from the first album pretty much.
Speaker 1: We um. When Lou came down and became integrated into
Speaker 1: the picture, I knew that he was a writer too,
Speaker 1: and I invited him to participate in the writing too,
Speaker 1: and that started our sort of writing relationship and how
Speaker 1: did you the rest of the band come together? Um?
Speaker 1: Through m kind of word of mouth Um, Ian McDonald
Speaker 1: I knew already. I had met Dennis Eady at the
Speaker 1: drummer um when I worked a little bit with Ian Hunter,
Speaker 1: and to me, he was perfect fit. And then we
Speaker 1: had a local guy from New York. He had been
Speaker 1: in a sort of an e LP type band and
Speaker 1: he was a really good keyboard player and he also
Speaker 1: was a writer. He later contributed to a few songs.
Speaker 1: Um ah. But that next period, you know, was we
Speaker 1: we made the demo. We uh, I had I had
Speaker 1: no you know, I had an interesting circle of friends.
Speaker 1: I was friendly with Jerry Moss from Yes, we had
Speaker 1: an interesting circle of friends. You knew Jerry Moss. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that whole sort of stable Jerry Moss and the A
Speaker 1: and M Records crew and the left handed trumpet player.
Speaker 1: So people used to you don't know, Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: had a great thing going at A and M and
Speaker 1: that there was a really artist friendly, warm kind of feeling.
Speaker 1: You know, you've felt like you were sort of special.
Speaker 1: And that's who I sent the first demo too. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: Jerry had just left it for the Mediterranean on vacation.
Speaker 1: And he never got the package. He told me later
Speaker 1: and he said, I really said, I kicked myself. I
Speaker 1: would love to have done this with you, and I
Speaker 1: would likewise of like to do it with him. Um,
Speaker 1: so that was one down Clive Davis. I wanted, for
Speaker 1: some reason to test myself because I knew he was
Speaker 1: like a song man and I really kind of wanted
Speaker 1: his um impression of it. And he said, well, he said,
Speaker 1: the only way I can tell you is if you
Speaker 1: come up here with their acoustic guitar and play me
Speaker 1: some of those songs, I'll give you my opinion. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't hear back from now did you sing the songs?
Speaker 1: Did losing the songs? No, we didn't. We didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just I was a little bit miffed that
Speaker 1: we had to do that. It got my ego a bit,
Speaker 1: But later I became you know, I've become very friendly
Speaker 1: with Clive over the years and I learned quite a
Speaker 1: bit from him. Um. Then we I had always Atlantic
Speaker 1: Records had always been my dream label, you know, right
Speaker 1: from the first time I heard Ray Charles all that period,
Speaker 1: you know, M R and B and H. So we
Speaker 1: sent there was a guy called a and R guy
Speaker 1: called Jim Delahan at Atlantic who got the the demo
Speaker 1: tape and kind of threw it in the bin without
Speaker 1: listening to it. And then John Colodno got hold of
Speaker 1: it somehow and he went bananas. He just he had
Speaker 1: just been appointed ahead of publicity, I think, nothing to
Speaker 1: do with, you know, being a music buff as he was,
Speaker 1: and he kind of took it and ran with it
Speaker 1: and just motivated the whole company. He'd be on their
Speaker 1: ass all the time, you know about champion championing our calls,
Speaker 1: and he piste a lot of people off me. It
Speaker 1: worked and we developed a great relationship eventually with Atlantic,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was a great meeting. Armored became
Speaker 1: friendly with him, and it was my dream, you know.
Speaker 1: I remember as a kid, I went to a party
Speaker 1: on a weekend. I must have been about fourteen or fifteen,
Speaker 1: and one of those parties where you tell your parents
Speaker 1: you're gonna three rounded to friends and you're off to
Speaker 1: London and hitch hiking and lost it. So you're talking
Speaker 1: about this party hearing the Atlantic records and I was
Speaker 1: over by the record player and I saw this black
Speaker 1: and red it was playing. What I say, Ray Charles
Speaker 1: and I saw this um spinning around on the record
Speaker 1: player and saw those colors, and I saw and then
Speaker 1: I listened to what was coming out, and I thought, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's fucking amazing, and what a what a great company,
Speaker 1: you know, what a great roster. You know. By that time,
Speaker 1: they had Zeppelin and The Stones, um, both bands who
Speaker 1: we have eventually ended up setting more than Ah. That
Speaker 1: was another crazy I mean, that was crazy times. The
Speaker 1: I had worked with Jimmy, you know, in London on sessions,
Speaker 1: sessions with Johnny Halliday, John Paul Jones, I'd work with
Speaker 1: and and of course that history of that pub and
Speaker 1: sorry opening for Stones, and and suddenly I'm here with
Speaker 1: it's you know, massive figures and rock, you know, and
Speaker 1: then it kind of became a little surreal at that point.
Speaker 1: I remember he ran Rolling Stone Records and Earl I
Speaker 1: become friendly with through the label kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: he challenged us because our double Vision album came out
Speaker 1: at the same time as some girls, and so we
Speaker 1: had this thing where every Friday or whenever, you know,
Speaker 1: the charts came out. Um, he had come over the
Speaker 1: studio and I either admit that we'd sold more than
Speaker 1: stones or not, and then we'd have to sort of
Speaker 1: but you're accounting that you're not counting this or you know.
Speaker 1: And by was in forwards and we ended up surpassing
Speaker 1: the Stones, you know, and that was mind boggling to me,
Speaker 1: you know, And although we had some statue already, it
Speaker 1: was still mind blowing, you know. Okay. So and in
Speaker 1: that year, by the way, um Foreigner and Rolling Stones,
Speaker 1: it was being talked about that we should unite and
Speaker 1: form our own label. That's how much we're Bud was
Speaker 1: approached by Rupert Lonstein, who you I'm sure you know,
Speaker 1: and he approached Bud and said, we'd like to talk
Speaker 1: about possibly forming a label with you guys, and what
Speaker 1: because we had sold more between us than the whole label,
Speaker 1: right signed. That's that's so just a little aside. I'd
Speaker 1: like to mention that sometimes it didn't happen. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think we we were riding high. Ah,
Speaker 1: Rupid Loinstein had a bit of a reputation too, And
Speaker 1: what was he The reputation was he was a great
Speaker 1: business guy for the Stones. But if you're weren't the Stones,
Speaker 1: what was his reputation? He's dead too, Yeah, not not
Speaker 1: too sparkling. Okay, let's go back to the getting Colodter
Speaker 1: flipped for it. So how long did it take for
Speaker 1: Foreigner to get signed? Um? Probably about three months? And
Speaker 1: was it already called Foreigner at that point? Um? The
Speaker 1: first name I we had thought of was Trigger, um,
Speaker 1: and then I realized that Trigger was Roy Rogers Horse
Speaker 1: and suddenly I felt Rodgers. There's another Rodgers who's pretty
Speaker 1: damn good singer, you know, and Paul Rodgers of course,
Speaker 1: so I just decided I couldn't go there. And I
Speaker 1: can't remember many other names. Actually, tell you the truth,
Speaker 1: it was hell finding a name. So when you found
Speaker 1: when you just when you come up with Foreigner, did
Speaker 1: you say, oh, this is it? Or do you said,
Speaker 1: wait for a while, so, well, I can't come up
Speaker 1: with something better, so therefore it's Foreigner pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the important thing with the albums, you know, and the
Speaker 1: recording you know. But Bud told me, you know, face
Speaker 1: to face, that he cut the Scottie Brothers in for
Speaker 1: a point for the complete career. He did, right. They
Speaker 1: were a legendary promotion people. And he was saying that
Speaker 1: certainly helped in the success of Foreigner, that that was
Speaker 1: his major contribution. And you agree that was a good move. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you make the first album and then somewhere along
Speaker 1: the line the band changes. It's you and Lou, but
Speaker 1: everybody else changed. What happened there? Um, are you talking
Speaker 1: about pre the Forum? Yeah? Yeah, I mean McDonald's no
Speaker 1: longer in the band. Well, we were kind of doing
Speaker 1: a growing up in public in a way, and Lew
Speaker 1: and I were sort of the nucleus of the band
Speaker 1: as it were, and I felt that we had to
Speaker 1: consolidate and really create what would be the sound of
Speaker 1: the band and I and I had counted Onto to
Speaker 1: be a man of all kinds of instruments, and it
Speaker 1: didn't sort of pan out that way. And Al Greenwood
Speaker 1: it was a great player. And you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: often regretted about, you know, why we did that, because
Speaker 1: it was, I guess part of my desire to to
Speaker 1: shape the sound, make it live for a long time,
Speaker 1: and create something that would be with acted, you know,
Speaker 1: and I needed to hone in on it. And so
Speaker 1: I was a bit of a taskmaster at that point.
Speaker 1: And how did Rick Wills end up being in the band?
Speaker 1: Rick I had known from Paris when he was playing
Speaker 1: in a club in Paris with with Dave Gilmore and
Speaker 1: they were on subsistence levels, you know, playing in a
Speaker 1: club in Saint Germains. And I used to go by
Speaker 1: and give him a little money. That's what I've just
Speaker 1: been joining. I took him out for breakfast a lot.
Speaker 1: You know. I looked back on it, and I I
Speaker 1: have regrets. I wish we could have kept the band
Speaker 1: intact as it were. It was really a terrible emotional break. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, these guys have been part of that first
Speaker 1: dream thing and then and then they weren't, you know,
Speaker 1: and then um, you know I finally decided to do
Speaker 1: that album and eventually produce it with Mutt Lange. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: So how did you decide this is the fourth album
Speaker 1: obviously four or four? How did you decide to make
Speaker 1: the switch and get Mudd involved? To get who get
Speaker 1: Mutt involved? Um? Well, Mutt had already applied for the job, uh,
Speaker 1: and we won't be able to work it out with him.
Speaker 1: So we did an album head Games with Roy Roy
Speaker 1: Thomas Baker Well, Roy Baker Thomas, Where's he today? Was
Speaker 1: that a good or bad experience? It was kind into good?
Speaker 1: It was it was. It was an attempt to go
Speaker 1: a bit more raw, a bit more street kind of thing. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't really know whether it ended up that way,
Speaker 1: but I it's a very powerful stage number. And you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I decided on Matt because he came over to my
Speaker 1: place and I wanted to hear every single idea I had,
Speaker 1: which normally was like a logo area. You know. It
Speaker 1: was very while I was timid, I guess, and he
Speaker 1: he wouldn't leave until he basically literally heard everything, even
Speaker 1: like a ten second clip, and he picked out like
Speaker 1: the intro on urgent ding ding ding dinging. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what was that? Was just just a piece line around.
Speaker 1: It was almost sounded to me like the shadows. And
Speaker 1: so we we we had it was a little sticky
Speaker 1: at the beginning. We both realized that we were both
Speaker 1: highly opinionated and we're used to, you know, getting what
Speaker 1: we wanted sort of thing. And but over time, over
Speaker 1: the first few months, we had a few runnins, you know,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly like it did with Tom with Don
Speaker 1: Landy and ended up having a quite a healthy aspect
Speaker 1: for each other. How long did it take to make
Speaker 1: for or four nine months? Maybe? A bit more pretty expensive,
Speaker 1: although you were a big seller, yes, and what did
Speaker 1: but contribute? Um? Well, he was Matt was actually more
Speaker 1: coming from more of a pop area. You know. It's um.
Speaker 1: He was as you probably know, he was like a
Speaker 1: session singer in South Africa. Yeah, they used to make
Speaker 1: all the records. They would cover the hits in England.
Speaker 1: That's really hold his chops um. And you know he
Speaker 1: he knew his stuff. He'd been been around, he knew
Speaker 1: his self. Plus I am actually what was that band
Speaker 1: he first been? City Boy? City Boy. That's when that's
Speaker 1: the first time he caught my ear. And you know,
Speaker 1: I knew that he was pretty determined. He was in
Speaker 1: good shape. You know, he'd had a couple of years
Speaker 1: where he had had a couple of shaky years, but
Speaker 1: had come back from that and it was really you know,
Speaker 1: on it. Okay, So how did Junior walk around up
Speaker 1: being on Urgent? Um. We were in the studio and
Speaker 1: I was just playing some of the tracks back and
Speaker 1: I had it was a very early version of Urgent
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there reading the Village Voice and suddenly
Speaker 1: I see bloone Star Cafe, Junior Walker and the old
Speaker 1: Stars and I'm listening to the track, which was pretty funky,
Speaker 1: and I put two and two together and went down
Speaker 1: to catch him live. And he had no idea who
Speaker 1: but his son I knew who we were, you know,
Speaker 1: and he said, Dad, these guys at the top of
Speaker 1: it charts, they're really great, you know. And he said, well,
Speaker 1: all I know is someone want to wake a record here,
Speaker 1: you know. And up to that point, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: he had never overdubbed anything on any albums or records
Speaker 1: he made. It was all one take. We ended up
Speaker 1: doing ten takes. And we were working with Tom Dalby
Speaker 1: Thomas Dolby at the time, and he was an interesting character,
Speaker 1: had some pretty radical since ideas, you know. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to just use a stock kind of since. So
Speaker 1: I you know, we we contacted him. He was in Paris,
Speaker 1: playing on subway, just singing with who knew him then nobody?
Speaker 1: Glad you find him. I can't remember. I think we
Speaker 1: we looked into who who he was, you know, Mud
Speaker 1: had heard about him, so you had Thomas Dolby in yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh Junior Walker. So we went out for what
Speaker 1: we would do, and we go out for dinner and
Speaker 1: leave Tom in the studio with an engineer and just
Speaker 1: have him just put the tracks down and then sift
Speaker 1: through them and you know, come up with slightly different approaches.
Speaker 1: And Junior started warming up, you know, and we did
Speaker 1: a take and it was nothing like Junior Walker used
Speaker 1: to play right at all. It was soft and mellow.
Speaker 1: So this is my new style. And Matt said, well,
Speaker 1: he said, we don't really want the new style. We
Speaker 1: want we want the real you you know, we want
Speaker 1: the stuff, you know, we want the shotgun. Yes, and
Speaker 1: he said, oh, you mean all that old ship. Yes, oh,
Speaker 1: the old ship. And so he he was she as
Speaker 1: I mentioned, he hadn't done before. We overdubbed him and
Speaker 1: took a bit of getting used to for him. But
Speaker 1: we gave him about twelve tracks. We came back and
Speaker 1: sifted through them, edited them, and I think it took
Speaker 1: two days to really put the final thing together. And
Speaker 1: I and I checked it out with a few Sacks
Speaker 1: players I knew, you know, to see if they spotted
Speaker 1: anything not kosher, you know, But it passed the committee
Speaker 1: and I think it's probably one of the one of
Speaker 1: the best sacks solos on a rock record. I agree there.
Speaker 1: I think most people agree now. Thomas Dolby came up
Speaker 1: with the synth sounds for Waiting for a Girl Like You. Yes,
Speaker 1: partly him and partly Ah Well, our keyboard player at
Speaker 1: the time of Mayo, who used to work with Frampton
Speaker 1: that's right and Larry Fast synergy synergy. Um, he played
Speaker 1: the chords. Who did that? Donna? Okay? Yeah, okay, So
Speaker 1: four and or four comes out? Did you have any
Speaker 1: idea it was going to be as big as it was?
Speaker 1: I had an inkling when we started to when it
Speaker 1: started to come come into shape. Um, I had a feeling.
Speaker 1: I put so much into it. I put everything I
Speaker 1: had into it. It was it was an important album.
Speaker 1: It was to sort of confirm that we weren't just
Speaker 1: you know, we hadn't just made three albums and that
Speaker 1: was the end of everything. He even though it did
Speaker 1: come close to the end of okay, so why did
Speaker 1: you never work with but again we that didn't happen immediately.
Speaker 1: That that kind of happened on at a later date
Speaker 1: as far as I remember. But the reason was that
Speaker 1: we weren't happy about our touring situation. And but it
Speaker 1: was later it was well, it did not do Waiting
Speaker 1: for I want to know what love is? No, I
Speaker 1: didn't think so, so how did I I don't want
Speaker 1: to know what love is? Comes together? I was in London.
Speaker 1: I had an apartment in London and I was living
Speaker 1: there with my fiance at the time, and I was
Speaker 1: working in my little music room mad I had just
Speaker 1: bought a simple synth, so I was writing on that
Speaker 1: and guitar, and suddenly this line comes into my head
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, I want to know what love is.
Speaker 1: That's that's weird, that's too. I must have heard that
Speaker 1: before somewhere and eventually realized that I hadn't heard that before.
Speaker 1: So um it was before Christmas and we released it
Speaker 1: in Atlantic. Just desperately wanted to release it, and so
Speaker 1: we did, and it was sort of a blessing and
Speaker 1: a curse in a way. The ramifications of what happened
Speaker 1: after that with my relationship with Lou tell us the
Speaker 1: story tell us how it was a blessing in Chris
Speaker 1: obviously huge hit and why did it mess up your
Speaker 1: relationship with little Um. Well, the fact was that we
Speaker 1: had the last, the second hit on the previous album
Speaker 1: and was waiting for gol like so there were two
Speaker 1: consecutive ballads, and Glue took a little exception to it.
Speaker 1: He felt that we were becoming softer, and in a way,
Speaker 1: I guess the fact that those two ballads, but which
Speaker 1: were huge hits, a kind of could have given the
Speaker 1: impression that we were going a bit soft. I didn't
Speaker 1: think we were. I thought it was just passage of time,
Speaker 1: and and so I was kind of taken by surprise
Speaker 1: by that. But then it developed into kind of into
Speaker 1: a rift, which unfortunately started to the band started started
Speaker 1: to self destruct. Um. I also think Lou probably felt
Speaker 1: he wanted to do his own and he wanted to
Speaker 1: do an album that he thought I believed that would
Speaker 1: show me what he wanted to do. And I heard
Speaker 1: the album and it sounded very familiar to me, and
Speaker 1: I got a little upset about that because, you know,
Speaker 1: Lou was the voice of the band and I was
Speaker 1: just so you know, I was a musician, and even
Speaker 1: though I was sort of the leader of the band,
Speaker 1: I had I recalled, you know, the amount of times
Speaker 1: when the lead singers had left bands and the disaster
Speaker 1: it had been, you know, and what it had done
Speaker 1: to the band, basically destroyed the band and using whatever
Speaker 1: knowledge I had. I I tried to keep him in
Speaker 1: the band, but I realized after a while that he
Speaker 1: had made pretty solid sort of commitment to do this.
Speaker 1: And it was a sad time, you know, because the
Speaker 1: song had meant so much to so many people, and
Speaker 1: even today it still does. And I'll never quite good
Speaker 1: over that, I don't think, because it's never quite settled.
Speaker 1: Whether it has for him, I don't know, okay, but
Speaker 1: you do these Foreigner then and Now shows where he
Speaker 1: is on the bill. So if it's never quite settled,
Speaker 1: how did this come back together? Um? It was on
Speaker 1: the night of the Rock and Phone, I mean not
Speaker 1: the Songwriters Hall of Fame and Lou and I were
Speaker 1: being inducted that night and things had mellowed out a bit.
Speaker 1: I have to say. It wasn't I confrontation or anything
Speaker 1: like that. We we did pretty well together, right right.
Speaker 1: Did you have any contact with them, Yeah, because they
Speaker 1: wanted us to play songs becus him and I, I
Speaker 1: mean have a prior to that. After he left the band,
Speaker 1: he did his solo records for the next fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 1: Did you ever connect with them? Yeah? Okay, so you
Speaker 1: were somewhat friendly. Yeah, it wasn't it. It was yeah,
Speaker 1: that stuff at all, you know, under the bridge, and
Speaker 1: so there we were. We had to performed together. And
Speaker 1: sometime in that day and in the preparation for the show,
Speaker 1: it dawned on me, you know, what we had achieved together,
Speaker 1: and I think it He got that too, and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, we did pretty good, pretty fucking good. And
Speaker 1: you know, I'll never regret what we've done together, and
Speaker 1: it will always be the most important thing in my
Speaker 1: life and the gratitude I have for it from whatever
Speaker 1: it took. You know, we we did it. We we
Speaker 1: made it. So is your anger more that he left
Speaker 1: or more that you didn't have a chance to make
Speaker 1: more hit foreigner albums? Well, it was more disappointment than anger. Um.
Speaker 1: I tried to We did some auditions for other singers, UM,
Speaker 1: which I sort of got a bit excited about and
Speaker 1: then realized that maybe it wasn't a great Um. We
Speaker 1: did some recording the what was that album? Inside Information,
Speaker 1: and but that was very much Lue coming in daily
Speaker 1: and doing his bit and leaving not really part of
Speaker 1: that creative process. But um, yeah, I kind of started
Speaker 1: to lose hard a bit towards the end of the nineties.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that we were getting gradually getting pushed
Speaker 1: out a bit band of you know, classic rock band
Speaker 1: grunge was coming in the hair bands, stuff that I
Speaker 1: didn't really really relate, but gradually I picked up on that,
Speaker 1: and that funny enough, that was the time when Bud
Speaker 1: and I split. And why did you too split? Because
Speaker 1: one day, I think it was in Spokane, Washington, we
Speaker 1: were playing in a bar and the bar was sort
Speaker 1: of at the junction of two roads coming in night,
Speaker 1: and so there was traffic on both sides of stage
Speaker 1: and the shitty little stage where we couldn't really even
Speaker 1: set up. I thought, WHOA, what's happening here? You know,
Speaker 1: is just we down to this playing little shacks. And
Speaker 1: actually what was happening was the whole business was changing.
Speaker 1: You know, we um and we were categorized as less
Speaker 1: than a classic rock band, you know, um whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: the market was bad, and you know, I didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do, and then um, oh the bad thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of blamed him for it, blamed blamed him,
Speaker 1: thinking that it was his fault. We were playing in
Speaker 1: these ship holes and he said, well, you don't understand
Speaker 1: these you know, it's not like it used to be.
Speaker 1: And um, I said no, but it's got to be
Speaker 1: better than that. And so actually Jason Bonham came up,
Speaker 1: but he called me along with Phil Carson you probably know,
Speaker 1: I guess and said, Mickey said, there's people out there.
Speaker 1: They're just dying to hear your music sounding like it
Speaker 1: should sound, you know. And gradually I I sort of
Speaker 1: confidence started to grow and we put this Foreigner Mark
Speaker 1: two together and from then on it was a slog
Speaker 1: to get us back to some kind of prestige, you know,
Speaker 1: some kind of prestigious position. And um, we've the band,
Speaker 1: this band in its current form, it's been around now
Speaker 1: for pretty much twelve years. So we're no longer. We've
Speaker 1: fought the fight and we've we're no one right now.
Speaker 1: But you don't do every gig right, When do you
Speaker 1: decide to work? When I'm in good health and good shape.
Speaker 1: How how is your health? It's it's pretty good. I
Speaker 1: can't complain feeling great right now, just not anything unusual ealthwise.
Speaker 1: Several years ago, I did have some heart surgery, but
Speaker 1: that's all fine, okay. One of my favorite songs is
Speaker 1: from the movie Still Crazy, which I love the flame
Speaker 1: still burns. Yeah, what is the story there? Well, it's
Speaker 1: a it's um, it's really about a. Did you see
Speaker 1: the movie? Oh yeah, see the movie multiple times. I'd
Speaker 1: love it. But how did it come together that you
Speaker 1: wrote the songs for the movie. Well, I had known
Speaker 1: Brian Gibson, the director, and I also knew here le
Speaker 1: Freny and Dick and his partner Dick. And I got
Speaker 1: a call from Brian saying I haven't seen him since
Speaker 1: we he did the video for I Want to Know
Speaker 1: What Love Us? And he said yeah, great. Um, he said,
Speaker 1: I have a little problem I've got I'm finishing this
Speaker 1: um movie I'm directing, and the songs aren't working. And
Speaker 1: I said, okay, what's the time frame here? And he said, well,
Speaker 1: he said, if you could come up with eight songs
Speaker 1: in week, that would be good. Yeah. I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: really would be But we managed to cut it down
Speaker 1: to about six. I think I wrote, well, yeah, I
Speaker 1: keep going. Um, I mean the film once I started
Speaker 1: to see the rushes and it was hilarious, you know,
Speaker 1: and I love that movie. We've we've done some versions
Speaker 1: of frames steel better, I know, but I will Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what I because I know you released a version
Speaker 1: which I've listened to. Because in America anyway, this movie
Speaker 1: soundtrack never came out, so in the Napster era, I
Speaker 1: had to download those, okay, and I prefer the version
Speaker 1: from the movie to the foreigner version. So who is
Speaker 1: singing on that one? And did you produce it? The
Speaker 1: one from the movie. Um, it's a guy called Jimmy
Speaker 1: Nail who was in the movie. So he's singing, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And then who produced thing that went to a number
Speaker 1: one in England? Oh? Really? Yeah? And who produced it? Um?
Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was. So you weren't involved,
Speaker 1: not in the mixing, but in the recording. You were
Speaker 1: well in in I was working at songs same time
Speaker 1: as we were, you know, basically trying to fit with
Speaker 1: the lyrics right right, right right, because you had such
Speaker 1: little time. Okay. Now, your step son is usually successful
Speaker 1: in music. How did that come together? Do you learn
Speaker 1: anything from you? Yes? Of course he Actually he credits
Speaker 1: me quite a lot, which I'm you know, very this
Speaker 1: is Mark Ronson we're talking. Yeah, yeah, Well, he's always
Speaker 1: been a huge music buff and you know, in the
Speaker 1: early hip hop days he was he was you know,
Speaker 1: completely taken with it, and then he started spinning and
Speaker 1: then he went into I'm trying to think of the evolution. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had a rock band, so his tastes were in
Speaker 1: a way similar to mine, and everything everything's got something
Speaker 1: about it. And he's just worked very hard. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a workaholic, which worries me a bit sometimes. But
Speaker 1: you know, he's a great kid, great guy, brother, and
Speaker 1: he's just a really special presidency has about him. And
Speaker 1: he's a sincere obviously very talented and well did you
Speaker 1: give him tips either growing up or when he went professional. Well,
Speaker 1: he used to come to you know, I had a
Speaker 1: studio in the house, so he'd hang out there quite
Speaker 1: a bit. Um he came to sessions. Ah, just picked
Speaker 1: it up that way, I think really And but he
Speaker 1: was complete music buff and you know that soul period
Speaker 1: in the early late early seventies, that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: and the Philly sound. And he's a student. I think
Speaker 1: The Band is one of his favorite bands. Which band
Speaker 1: is the band? The Band? Yes, as I said, Eric
Speaker 1: Clapton wanted to join them. Whenever there's a new movie
Speaker 1: coming out and Robbie Robertson has a new album. But okay,
Speaker 1: you divorced his mother and then years later got remarried.
Speaker 1: What's up with that? What's up? Indeed? Well, I think
Speaker 1: we had we had never fallen out of love. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it was I have to take a responsibility
Speaker 1: for some of it, definitely. Um, I was a little
Speaker 1: out of control. I had a bit of a drinking problem. Um,
Speaker 1: but I you know, I I've been working on that
Speaker 1: for a long time. Do you drink it all? Now?
Speaker 1: Have you fallen off the wagon since stopped or consistently?
Speaker 1: What got you to stop? I just think I realized
Speaker 1: I was hurting myself, not just myself, but my kids,
Speaker 1: my wife, everybody family. I was that's a different guy,
Speaker 1: you know this other person that really how long did
Speaker 1: that go off for? How long were you a different guy? Well?
Speaker 1: I realized I started drinking, you know, when I was six,
Speaker 1: of course, right in England beer horrible beer. But then um,
Speaker 1: when I went to France, I became you know, evity
Speaker 1: into wine, you know, rich food. Um, but it was
Speaker 1: alcohol pretty much. And m you know, I look back
Speaker 1: on it, and I do have to. I've got a
Speaker 1: lot of gratitude for everybody that kind of stuck in
Speaker 1: there and stuck by me and have helped me. And
Speaker 1: I've got a relationship, a very good relationship with my children,
Speaker 1: and they were at times scared of me and those
Speaker 1: kind of things. You know, you think I've made them scared?
Speaker 1: How the hell did I do that? You know? And
Speaker 1: I've done some soul searching and and try and remember
Speaker 1: that whenever I do, I can't have a glass of wine.
Speaker 1: Even so, how did you stop? I went to rehab?
Speaker 1: But who convinced you to go to rehab? Finally, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it was Eric Clapton really
Speaker 1: invited me down to cross Roads. Yeah, did he know
Speaker 1: that you had a drinking problem where people had told you?
Speaker 1: People had told him? And so you go to rehab?
Speaker 1: How long do you go? For? Month? Month? And when
Speaker 1: you come out? Because I stopped drinking myself. This was
Speaker 1: before it was cool to not drink at a bar,
Speaker 1: and although I didn't slip, it was very hard for
Speaker 1: a while not drinking. Like your world life is built
Speaker 1: around it. So it is. It's a complete readjustment. Okay,
Speaker 1: just going back one chapter because I discussed this with Bud.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite? I want to know what love is
Speaker 1: you're waiting for a girl like you. Um boy, that's
Speaker 1: a tricky one. Um M. When you for a girl
Speaker 1: like you had a very emotional pool on me. It
Speaker 1: was I don't know what it was, but it was
Speaker 1: a song that I wrote with Luke we basically written
Speaker 1: in five minutes. I was playing chords I never played
Speaker 1: before what I was doing, but somehow it worked, you know,
Speaker 1: and it became such an emotional, emotionally charged song for me.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even at one point, I couldn't even be
Speaker 1: in the control room without losing it. And it had
Speaker 1: a mysterious power. Well that's my favorite too, But was
Speaker 1: but was more into uh, I want to know what
Speaker 1: love is? But I used to argue with them, you know,
Speaker 1: I had by other reasons in that want to know
Speaker 1: what love is a haunting and I don't know more
Speaker 1: of a rock field. I mean, I love first of all,
Speaker 1: came out first, so I knew it so and an event.
Speaker 1: It's been great having you here, Mick. Thanks for telling
Speaker 1: us the whole story, okay, and I think you remember
Speaker 1: quite a lot. So until next time, it's Bob Left
Speaker 1: says