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Speaker 1: When you look at food TV today, I think having

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Speaker 1: a background in gymnastics may be useful, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: being able to run around and overcome all kinds of

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Speaker 1: physical challenges cook in a very short timeline seems to

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Speaker 1: be a very helpful skill.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to off the Cup, my anti anxiety antidote. As

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Speaker 2: many of you know, I am a fan of reality television,

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Speaker 2: not all reality television, but certainly anything that's on Bravo.

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Speaker 2: Well before The Real Housewives, we were watching things like

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Speaker 2: Survivor and Big Brother, and for a brief period, every

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Speaker 2: Sunday night, my friend Lisa and I would watch The Restaurant.

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Speaker 2: We lived in New York City and here was this

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Speaker 2: new reality show about opening and running a restaurant in

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Speaker 2: Flat Iron. We were Food Network junkies as well, so

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Speaker 2: we were very aware of its star. When the restaurant

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Speaker 2: at twenty seconds Street finally opened, I am not ashamed

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Speaker 2: to say she and I went several times. You could

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Speaker 2: call us stalkers, in hopes of catching a glimpse of

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Speaker 2: him or his mother, who didn't care did not care

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Speaker 2: either one either one. We never did. But I'm thrilled

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Speaker 2: to have him on the podcast today. All these years later,

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Speaker 2: Roco de Spirito welcomed to off the cup.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, And none of that is true,

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Speaker 3: is it?

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Speaker 2: That's all one hundred percent wow.

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Speaker 3: And you never called me or my mom.

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Speaker 2: Now I think we might have seen your mom in

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Speaker 2: the back. But it became our mission and it was

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Speaker 2: so fun because it was such It was such an era.

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Speaker 2: It was post nine to eleven, which had really rattled us,

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Speaker 2: and boy did we need this escape. And I know

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Speaker 2: that chapter of your career wasn't like without its issues,

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Speaker 2: but for us it was everything. It was this combination

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Speaker 2: of everything we were into at the time, restaurants and

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Speaker 2: reality and you know New York. I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: really a moment.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for reminding me.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely a great time. Nine to love It

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Speaker 1: informed that decision quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: Oh tell me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I remember being so serious about the restaurant business,

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Speaker 1: and then nine to eleven happened and we barely were

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Speaker 1: able to scrape up everything and put the restaurant back

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Speaker 1: together after many, many months, and I remember this offer

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Speaker 1: coming along and thinking, you know, I think the world

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Speaker 1: almost ended a few months ago. Why not just see

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Speaker 1: what this is like for a change. You know, I'd

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Speaker 1: been a very serious chef for so many years, for

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Speaker 1: so many years working under the great chefs of New York.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you were aware, if you

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Speaker 1: were a fan of Food Network, you might have gotten

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Speaker 1: a glimpse. But back then, working for you know, the Danielle's,

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Speaker 1: all of the Danielle's and the Blais and the David's

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Speaker 1: and the John George's was you know, basically like going

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Speaker 1: to military training camps. I bet you had to really

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Speaker 1: be very serious. You had to be very sharp, you

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Speaker 1: had to operate on very little sleep.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I remember that time and going to restaurants, which is

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Speaker 2: my all time favorite thing to do. It was at

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Speaker 2: such a heyday in the in the like two thousands,

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Speaker 2: because for me, like I wasn't clubbing. I wanted a

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Speaker 2: table at Balthazar or Tao or Budacon or Sushisemba or

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Speaker 2: lore Fish Bar, like these were the places you had

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Speaker 2: to go at that time, and it's all that mattered

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Speaker 2: to me. We were restaurant hopping because that was what

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Speaker 2: you did. And it was such an era. And I

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Speaker 2: was at four Seasons and I went to Danielle was.

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Speaker 1: Fun and so entertaining, and there was always so many

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Speaker 1: people out. Do you remember you could go to Balthazar

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Speaker 1: at two three in the morning and order a three level.

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Speaker 3: Plateau of seafood. Oh I didn't. How fun is that?

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Speaker 2: It was so fun? And you're right, after nine to eleven,

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Speaker 2: we were all really traumatized. If you lived in the city.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just that day, it was everything after. It

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Speaker 2: felt you know, getting on the subway, getting in an

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Speaker 2: air going to an airport, you know, crossing a bridge

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Speaker 2: from Manhattan. You know, everything was so fraught and it

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Speaker 2: felt like danger was around every corner. And for us,

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Speaker 2: going out to a restaurant was actually an act of

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Speaker 2: defiance and community and sort of reclaiming our town. And

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Speaker 2: you were a big part of that, all you know,

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Speaker 2: those restaurants and that that chapter that that was a

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Speaker 2: big part of that of that moment.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to think we were part of the healing process.

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Speaker 1: We all definitely you know, swept the ashes aside and

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Speaker 1: literally and metaphorically and put together our teams and you know,

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Speaker 1: for the people who lost people, you know, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: rebuilt their teams and getting open again was very, very important,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there was a flood of people coming in,

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Speaker 1: you know, every night to look for a little community

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Speaker 1: and a little humanity and a little love, and you know,

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Speaker 1: in the service and the other diners.

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Speaker 3: And I think you're right, that was a heyday for

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Speaker 3: New York.

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Speaker 1: And in terms of the restaurant community, the people that

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Speaker 1: worked in that community back then very serious and also

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Speaker 1: you know, very fun. When I say serious, you have

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Speaker 1: to remember, this is one of the most fun business

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Speaker 1: there is, you know, and I'm sure you understand that,

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Speaker 1: and that's probably why you love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. We have a lot of fun. We

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Speaker 3: eat well, we drink, you know, we're out late.

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Speaker 1: So when I say serious, I'm talking about the daytime work,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you're prepping. And I think it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, largely due to the institutions like the ones

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Speaker 1: that all the Danielle's run. And you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about when I say that, right, there was a

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Speaker 1: time where there were three Danielle's running, you know, the

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Speaker 1: entire Fine Doty establishment in New York. And I give

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Speaker 1: them a lot of credit for getting people out and back,

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Speaker 1: you know, back into the swing of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, shows like sex and the city

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Speaker 2: also played a huge role in that and putting those

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Speaker 2: restaurants on camera, sure, and making you know, driving people

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Speaker 2: back to them. But before nine to eleven, but especially

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Speaker 2: after nine to eleven of became everyone's job to revitalize

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Speaker 2: the city.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, it was great. That's when Giuliani was

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Speaker 3: a great mayor. Remember there was a moment.

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Speaker 2: Where when he was a normal guy, like when he

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Speaker 2: was like.

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Speaker 3: So, I'm not sure if he was ever a normal guy,

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Speaker 3: but maybe he was.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we were all fooled because he's a fucking weirdo now,

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Speaker 2: and you know he was. He was great in that moment.

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Speaker 3: For sure. For sure we needed that.

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Speaker 2: But I can't even I can't even reconcile that Rudy

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Speaker 2: and this Rudy. But yeah, you had you had Union

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Speaker 2: Pacific at the time, already before Rocos. On twenty second,

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Speaker 2: how much of opening Rocos was about opening a restaurant?

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Speaker 2: How much was it about doing a television show? Like

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Speaker 2: what you know, how was this presented to you or

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Speaker 2: how did you think about it?

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Speaker 3: Easy, easy answer.

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Speaker 1: Rocos was a restaurant way before it was television show. Conceptually, Uh,

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Speaker 1: television show came came squarely after the concept of Rocos

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Speaker 1: was put together, I'd been hoping to you know, you

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Speaker 1: know what happened in my mid to late thirties, I

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Speaker 1: sort of was able to shed my ethnic self loathing

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Speaker 1: and realized that my Italian you know, parents and grandparents

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Speaker 1: and aunts and uncles who still couldn't speak English, were

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Speaker 1: really the best best thing in my life, and their

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Speaker 1: lifestyles were something to absolutely emulate and re engage with.

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Speaker 3: And I thought one of the you know.

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Speaker 1: As a chef does, one of the best ways to

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Speaker 1: do and to honor that is to open a restaurant,

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Speaker 1: you know, with that celebrates that lifestyle and that food.

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Speaker 1: And that was the concept that it was, and it

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Speaker 1: was in the works for many, many years, you know,

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Speaker 1: probably five to eight years, and then at the end

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Speaker 1: of that path, at the end of the process of

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Speaker 1: finding a partner, Ben Silverman came along and you know,

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Speaker 1: suggested this show, and it helped accelerate and close the

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Speaker 1: loop on all the deals that were you know, in

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Speaker 1: the works to get that restaurant open. So in many

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Speaker 1: ways it really helped concretize the concept and getting get

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Speaker 1: the restaurant open. But I wanted to do that for

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Speaker 1: a long time, I'd been pretty self conscious about how

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Speaker 1: serious Union Pacific was and how expensive it was, and

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Speaker 1: I guess I felt I had a little bandwidth. Never

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Speaker 1: make that mistake. By the way, no one ever has

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Speaker 1: more bandwidth. There is no bandwidth to be had anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I thought I had a little bandwidth. I you know,

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Speaker 1: looking back, I had an incredibly talented group of people

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Speaker 1: that were working with me. Any one of those people

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Speaker 1: could now run an empire of restaurants, and so with

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Speaker 1: that blessing, I figured, you know, we could do we

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Speaker 1: could do more. And there were a couple of chefs

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Speaker 1: working with me who wanted to do more but didn't

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Speaker 1: want to do something as serious, and everybody loves Italian food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and my mom wanted to work. She wanted to

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Speaker 3: get get into the restaurants. She was so crazy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why she would wanted to do more,

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Speaker 1: but she loved coming to work every day. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: for all those reasons, Rocos happened, and the show is

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Speaker 1: like just a almost after the fact kind of Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's throw this on top of everything and see what happens.

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Speaker 2: So, at some point in your early career, did someone

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Speaker 2: say to you like, you're young, telegenic, you're cute, like

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Speaker 2: you should be on television. You should not just be

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen.

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Speaker 3: No one's ever said that to me, but thank you

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Speaker 3: for saying that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just wondering how it happened.

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Speaker 1: It happened, I was, I was right, No, I you know,

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Speaker 1: the television television stuff happened very organically.

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Speaker 3: Back then.

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Speaker 1: Food Network was a very serious place. Also, they were

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Speaker 1: celebrating the culinary art.

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Speaker 3: Right, can remember when.

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Speaker 1: Bravo was a serious channel, yep, And that we were

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Speaker 1: celebrating the arts and culture and Food Network I think

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Speaker 1: aspired to be like that too, And so they tapped

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Speaker 1: a lot of serious chefs in New York to go

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Speaker 1: do real demos and real cooking, and I would appear

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Speaker 1: as a guest on a bunch of shows quite often,

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Speaker 1: and little by little it turned into, you know, more

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Speaker 1: work on the network and more appearances on other people's

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Speaker 1: shows and occasionally in my own show. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I always thought it was because I was such a

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Speaker 1: good chef. So I please, please don't change my mind

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 3: I won't.

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Speaker 2: I won't. Yeah, I'm sure, like everything else, it's a

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Speaker 2: combination of things because there's a you know, not everyone

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Speaker 2: who's good at something in real life is good at

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Speaker 2: it on television. Not everyone who's you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: there's a lot that goes into you know, I make television.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a lot that goes into it, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And you were what someone would call the full package.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure. And that's not to take away from your

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Speaker 2: cooking skills, but you know, we have to be honest

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Speaker 2: about how this all happens. You need to also be

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Speaker 2: able to talk on television and compel people to watch,

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Speaker 2: and you you had all of that. And as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of like really popping TV chefs then,

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Speaker 2: and we've had some of them on the podcast. Was anyone, though,

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Speaker 2: I can't remember, was anyone doing reality the way you

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Speaker 2: were doing it with the restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Well, certainly Mark Burnett was. He was producing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the two biggest realities goes out there at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yep. But certainly there were no restaurants.

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Speaker 2: That's what I mean. There no other chef was like

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Speaker 2: opening a restaurant on camera, sharing you know, it's staff

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Speaker 2: on camera.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I think I think maybe Gordon was doing something called

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Speaker 1: boiling Foyt. I can't remember that was before or after,

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Speaker 1: but it was sort of a reality kind of take

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Speaker 1: on running a restaurant. I don't remember it was opening

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Speaker 1: a restaurant or not, but no, I think that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty original idea by Mark Burnett, and you know,

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Speaker 1: first of its kind, it was. It turned into what

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Speaker 1: everybody seemed to have learned, including NBCs, is that without

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Speaker 1: a format, it can, you know, it can get a

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Speaker 1: little unmanageable.

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Speaker 3: So it turned into Top Chef.

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Speaker 1: Is far as I understand the story that Top Chef

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Speaker 1: is the result of understanding wow, TV can play on

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Speaker 1: network television, but I think we need a form, pat

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Speaker 1: So it isn't you know, shooting eighty to one and

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Speaker 1: spending gazillions. I can only imagine what they spent back then,

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Speaker 1: because your cameras were expensive back then, remember when cameras

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Speaker 1: were right right, You may not remember, you might, I do,

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Speaker 1: I'll be too young for that, but cameras were very

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Speaker 1: expensive back then, and people holding cameras were very expensive.

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Speaker 1: Now it all seems so inexpensive and easy to do now,

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Speaker 1: right well, and it's.

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Speaker 2: The least of our concerns right now in TV. But

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Speaker 2: you're right, because the food the Food Network's so different

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Speaker 2: now and it's it's like mostly competition shows, which are

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Speaker 2: super fun and I watch them, but like the cooking

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Speaker 2: shows are are few and far between, and I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of chefs complain like there's nowhere to just

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Speaker 2: go and watch really good yeah cooking and some of

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Speaker 2: the food destination shows, which I were like, were some

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Speaker 2: of my favorite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think all the food shows have gone

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Speaker 1: from eighty percent you know, cra in culinary arts, twenty

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Speaker 1: percent personality to the flip you know, to eighty percent

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Speaker 1: personalities riven in twenty percent culinary arts and cuisine.

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Speaker 2: Is that a good thing? Is it a bad thing?

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Speaker 2: Where do you put that?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I know it seems to be what

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Speaker 3: people want.

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Speaker 1: I guess people are watching that what I am noticing

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Speaker 1: those If you look at what's happening in social media,

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Speaker 1: you know, YouTube, long form, short form, ig TikTok, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of serious chefs on those channels, yeah, cooking

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Speaker 1: real foods. So I'm I'm so confused, and I really

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Speaker 1: don't have the data you might because you're in the

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Speaker 1: business every day.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what ultimately works.

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Speaker 1: I see the numbers of views on social media, and

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Speaker 1: I know some of those views are much higher than

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Speaker 1: what you know network television is getting.

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Speaker 3: So who knows? Who knows? Do you know?

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Speaker 2: No, we're your boss?

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Speaker 3: Does that CNN tell you this stuff there? No?

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Speaker 2: I mean no, We're all trying to figure this exact

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Speaker 2: thing out, like how are we competing with social media

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Speaker 2: and and streamers and everyone's cord cutting? And then layered

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Speaker 2: on top for us is the political aspect? Do we

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Speaker 2: navigate all of that? So no, everyone's trying to figure

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Speaker 2: this out, and it's a crazy time.

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Speaker 3: Can I go back and touch on something that you

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Speaker 3: said earlier?

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Speaker 1: Please, sorry to interrupt. You mentioned ability to speak on TV.

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Speaker 1: So there was a whole generation of us that had

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Speaker 1: no ability to speak on TV or even go out

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Speaker 1: into a dining room and say LO to a customer.

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Speaker 1: And so for that generation, there was this media training duo,

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Speaker 1: a husband and her wife team that were assigned to

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Speaker 1: each of us, and we all had to go through

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Speaker 1: this like pretty rigorous training considering you know how long

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Speaker 1: it took to get comfortable in front of a camera

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Speaker 1: back then. Now, I feel like you were just raised

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Speaker 1: in an environment where you're always on camera. So there

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Speaker 1: is no more that there's no more being uncomfortable from

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Speaker 1: the camera because everyone's always on camera, right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: there's lou Ekis and his wife media trained every chef

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Speaker 1: that you know that you think we're good on TV.

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Speaker 3: They all started out pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: On TV, and him and a wonderful woman named Nancy Banks,

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Speaker 1: who still teaches acting in LA helped a lot of

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Speaker 1: chefs get comfortable. It really was an interesting process back then.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so I just thought it was funny because

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Speaker 1: you think that's amazing from your perspective, was a natural talent,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't at all.

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Speaker 2: So it was cultivated and developed. I mean, if we

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Speaker 2: have that in my business, I've media trained politicians and okay,

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Speaker 2: some people media train the media to be better on camera.

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Speaker 2: We have that too, But that's wild. I had no

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Speaker 2: idea that that existed. What was media training? What did

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Speaker 2: it consist of?

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Speaker 1: They would wow, so many different things, but most of

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Speaker 1: it was just, you know, putting you on film and

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Speaker 1: forcing you to watch it, which you know is complete torture.

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Speaker 1: I know, are you one of those people that can't

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Speaker 1: watch yourself on it?

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Speaker 2: I hate it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, me too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I never watched anything I'm in and they would

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Speaker 1: force you to do that, and they would just give

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Speaker 1: you notes and you know, get you to be more comfortable.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of mock interviews.

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Speaker 1: Back then, Katie work was the host of The Today Show,

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Speaker 1: and Nancy would set up a room with you know,

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Speaker 1: Al and Katie and everyone and the three cameras, you know,

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Speaker 1: so that it was a replica basically the Today Show set,

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Speaker 1: and she would play Katie and you know, and I'd

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Speaker 1: have to do a demo and they'd record the whole

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Speaker 1: thing and then we'd analyze it all.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't it sound awful?

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Speaker 2: I mean, because it's not my business, it sounds really fine.

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Speaker 2: But I would I get, Oh yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's do it. Let's do it together one day.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's do a mock Let's do a mock Today

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Speaker 1: Show interview and then be forced to watch it on

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Speaker 1: a big screen.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank you.

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Speaker 3: Sounds so much fun, like the best.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk more about your career, but I

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Speaker 2: always also like to ask what kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 2: Talk about who you are as little Roco?

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, uh, pretty energy, very curious. I started cooking

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Speaker 1: very young, so part of my little kid. You know,

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Speaker 1: Era was cooking and always loved cooking very much. You know,

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Speaker 1: absolutely captivated me and you know, stole my heart at

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Speaker 1: a young age, about eleven, I would say. So a

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Speaker 1: big part of being kidd and growing up was being

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Speaker 1: being a chef, but very attached.

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Speaker 3: To family, very attached to family. I was the kind

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Speaker 3: of kid that went to Rosary society meetings with my

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Speaker 3: mom and.

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Speaker 1: Said the whole entire rosary. Can you imagine ask it

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Speaker 1: to do that?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: Does anyone even know what a rosary is anymore? I

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Speaker 1: don't think so, but yeah, I think it's about sixty

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Speaker 1: Hail Mary's. So we'd stand there and hold a rosary

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Speaker 1: and every time you said a Hail Mary, you'd move

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Speaker 1: the bead one step over.

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Speaker 3: And you know I would do that with my mom. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I went to Catholic school and I'm Italian.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, good, good, okay God.

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Speaker 1: So you understand I was an altar boy, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: very sort of pious acting Catholic school kid, but also

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Speaker 1: very curious and grow in a high energy in a

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Speaker 1: Jamaica Queen's environment, which is you know, inner city as

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Speaker 1: it gets and so lots of hyjiinks as well.

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Speaker 2: So you knew early and you went to college for hospitality, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I knew really early.

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Speaker 1: I went to both cooking school and then management school

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Speaker 1: for hospitality. So I went to the CIA and then

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Speaker 1: Boston University.

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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, would you tell an aspiring chef today,

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Speaker 2: go to college, go to culinary school, or just start

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Speaker 2: in a restaurant. What would you say?

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Speaker 3: Watch YouTube? Watch from YouTube. Yeah, you can learn everything

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Speaker 3: that I begged people to teach me on YouTube. Now,

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Speaker 3: there was I did a cooking competition on NBC not

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Speaker 3: too long ago, and my competitor was a fourteen year

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Speaker 3: old kid and he was making ice cream in a

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Speaker 3: kitchen aid with dry ice and you know, and like

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Speaker 3: employing eighteen different molecular strategies that you would have had

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Speaker 3: to you know, live in Spain for six years and

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Speaker 3: begged for an Adrea to teach you, you know, these

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Speaker 3: these skills. Yeah, back then.

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Speaker 1: I'm not that long ago, not that long, only twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five years ago. So you can learn everything you

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Speaker 1: need to learn on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: And then of course you need to go work in

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Speaker 3: a restaurant and get some practical skills. I don't I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure that you need to go to culinary school anymore,

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Speaker 3: although I.

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Speaker 1: Think it's a great thing to do, and it was

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Speaker 1: great for me. And it's a lot of education compressed

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Speaker 1: in a very small amount of time. So that's also good,

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Speaker 1: especially for chefs who want to really get out there

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Speaker 1: and cook. But you know, get a degree in finance,

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Speaker 1: get into pe, make a fortune, and then go learn

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Speaker 1: how to cook, and retire, i'd say, or some order.

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Speaker 3: That's probably the best way to do this career at

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good advice. Right, So you're I think you're like

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Speaker 2: thirty one when you open your first restaurant. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Sounds about right? Yeah, Well, how much.

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Speaker 2: Didn't you know when you open your first restaurant? How much?

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Speaker 2: Looking back now, how much didn't you know?

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Speaker 1: I feel like, since you're in television, you probably relate

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Speaker 1: to this. But we wake up, chefs wake up every

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Speaker 1: day feeling like we don't know anything. So the restaurant

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Speaker 1: business is, you know, it's that it's that friend, that

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Speaker 1: person you're in love with that you're chasing your whole life,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out what is gonna what's

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Speaker 1: what's it going to take today? This week to get

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Speaker 1: them to pay attention to me. It's, you know, a

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Speaker 1: complicated business that's super dynamic, always changing. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know a lot then. I don't feel like

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Speaker 1: I know a lot today. You know, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is instinct and guesswork, and we enjoy

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Speaker 1: that obviously, you know, not.

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Speaker 3: Uh it not being entirely data.

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Speaker 1: Driven is kind of fun sometimes because for a creative

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Speaker 1: that's fun. We use a lot more data today than

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Speaker 1: we ever have. We have, you know, all kinds of

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Speaker 1: information broken down to very granular levels now on apps

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Speaker 1: on our phone, something we didn't have then when I

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Speaker 1: opened my first restaurant. So we get to make a

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Speaker 1: lot more informed decisions. We get to see people canceling

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Speaker 1: their reservation when they cancel it in real time now, right,

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Speaker 1: we couldn't do back then. This is one of those

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Speaker 1: businesses where and again I think it's a lot like

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Speaker 1: television where you just never really know enough. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there's no way to ever know f there's just no

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Speaker 1: way to master this well.

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Speaker 2: And it's changing so quickly, whether it's the technology or

441
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: the medium or the interactive experience, like it's always changing.

442
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I totally get what you're saying. You're

443
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 2: always just trying to keep up and future proof and

444
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: predict the next thing totally exactly.

445
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: And the chefs who have you know, quote unquote mastered

446
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: it have always if you look at all of them,

447
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,479
Speaker 1: like I'll mention one of the Daniells again, him and

448
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 1: so many like him, have been smart enough to find

449
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: a partner very early on, you know, very early in

450
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: their career that they have been with for twenty thirty years,

451
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: that have supported them thick and thin, through recessions and

452
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: nine to eleven's and everything else, realizing that over time

453
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: this will be a very fruitful endeavor, this will be

454
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 1: you know, a profitable experience, but it won't be today,

455
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: it won't be next week, you know, necessarily. And those

456
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: those other chefs who I think have you know, huge

457
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: restaurant empires now that seem very comfortable, and there's in

458
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 1: their settings, in their spaces and Danielle's you know, really

459
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: good example. Nobu obviously another great example, uh with a

460
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, very famous partner who who discovered and stuck

461
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: by him all these years. So the one thing I've

462
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 1: learned is that you know, enduring partnership is always a

463
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: good way to go.

464
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: I've asked ming Sivas the Bear do you watch? Does

465
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: it actually capture opening and running a restaurant in the

466
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: big city?

467
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, I think it does quite a bit.

468
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think The Bear is a really good portrayal

469
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: of how things work in a restaurant. I think the characters, uh,

470
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: in many cases are very similar to real life chef characters.

471
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, the angst and the psychological stuff and uh,

472
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: the you know, desperation for excellence and the self doubt,

473
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, all that is pretty pretty spot on. Also,

474
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: the the extreme humanity and pure love and joy that

475
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: exists in their hearts is is spot on too. And

476
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: that certainly that the difficulty of you know, opening and

477
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: running places is captured pretty well. There almost is never

478
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: a situation where you open cans of tomatoes and find money,

479
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: though in real life that would be, you know, something

480
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: that would be pretty wonderful. It would have to be

481
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: a couple of million dollars now, but you know, uh

482
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: Ki Krmi did well with the what was it.

483
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: Two hundred grand? One hundred grand?

484
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.

485
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 1: But I like that there's you know, fictionalized versions of

486
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 1: what we do now, not just the reality stuff and

487
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: not just the competition team, because I think it's a

488
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: very rich world with rich characters and you know, yes,

489
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: lots of emotional content. It's it's it's it's perfect for

490
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: dramatized advertising.

491
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your favorite, what's like the best movie about food?

492
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: Oh, It's a Big Night, that's my favorite. Big Night. Yeah.

493
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't it Isn't it just perfect?

494
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: It is perfection. I saw it with my mom when

495
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: I was like fifteen, at like a little movie theater

496
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: in Boston, and I was like, oh my god, this

497
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: is so good.

498
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, think about it. I mean they're two very passionate people.

499
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: They're immigrants there. You know, the restaurant is going to

500
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: be their salvation, right, They're they're hoping for this guy

501
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: to come in and make them, you know, important and relevant.

502
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 3: They love to cook, they love to serve. I mean,

503
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: it's just beautiful.

504
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: It's perfect, such a perfect little snapshot of what things

505
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: are like in our world.

506
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: It's so good and in a very similar and yet

507
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: disimilar way Stick Pizza, which is not really a food movie,

508
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: but still that sort of beside story of waiting for

509
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: the restaurant critic to come in and make this little

510
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: mom and pop pizza shot famous. Like it was such

511
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: a nice nostalgic, you know, way of showing that I

512
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: love those, I can really relate to those.

513
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: I pitched one, a mockumentary of the food world to

514
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: the waiting for Guffvin people, Yes years ago.

515
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 3: Don't you think it's time for something like that? Yes? Yeah,

516
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't that be great? Waiting for How have they not

517
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 3: done that?

518
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: Right? They did dog shows?

519
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: I know you've done everything, folks.

520
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 2: Singing, oh my gosh, and so what happened? Where'd that go?

521
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: Nowhere?

522
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: I just you know nowhere, Like you know how it is.

523
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: You got to keep pushing. I stopped pushing that.

524
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: I do have to, I do how it is. I

525
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: was pushing a mockumentary about the news for a while too,

526
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: and you know, I'll circle back around to it at

527
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 2: some point, but you got to give it some space.

528
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, you got to speak to David

529
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: what's his name? You gotta you got to meet him somewhere.

530
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: Who's David what's his name?

531
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: The guy who produced and directed all those spinals happed

532
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: all the way through.

533
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: To I only know like Christopher Guest is christ is

534
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 2: that who? Yeah, that is number Rock.

535
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: Oh.

536
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: I would call him, but I gotta find Christopher guests

537
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 3: now him down and talk to him.

538
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: We both do, We both do. We have two projects

539
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: for him, you know, speaking about TV and I. I

540
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: come from experience with this. There is a downside to

541
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: putting your real self on TV. What kinds of things

542
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: did you experience that you know you could have lived.

543
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: Without people noticing that I've gotten fat recently? Not a

544
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: great not one of those downside moments. Uh, yeah, let's

545
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: see what else? Every time I post a video, someone

546
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: has to remind me, Like, I'm pretty aware of that.

547
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: You know, I feel bad enough as it is. It's crazy, right, people.

548
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: Just pointing out every little, every little imperfection about your

549
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: life and your appearance and your hair and your teeth.

550
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: Oh, totally. Yeah, it's not fun. That is not fun.

551
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: It comes with it, but it's not fun.

552
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

553
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: There was, uh a couple of times where you know,

554
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: fiction and reality crossed each other's paths and created some

555
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: trouble for me that would have been totally avoidable had

556
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: I had not been on television.

557
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: You know, where one one path and.

558
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: The other they fed each other and fiction became reality

559
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: and you know that kind of thing. Those moments are

560
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: a little are interesting. The thing about reality TV and

561
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: restaurants is people can come in, you know, to your

562
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: space while you're there working. So there's that additional.

563
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: Layer of right, you know, invasion, just the word invasion, Yeah,

564
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: that's the word. That's one of the words. Yeah, scarcity

565
00:27:59,320 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: of privacy.

566
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because people, whether you're anti v or not,

567
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: you become a well known chef. People can come into

568
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: your restaurant, right, which you want. But of course sure

569
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: there are some folks you would not want, and you

570
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: don't get to say who comes in and who doesn't.

571
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: You know, you don't always know. Yeah, I would imagine

572
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: that could feel a little scary sometimes.

573
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's especially when there's you know, eighteen

574
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: camera crews shooting everything and turning into you know, the

575
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: next episode. But I do want to say that and

576
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: people know that, you know, it's mostly upside. It's it's

577
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: incredibly better than I imagine as a kid, when I was

578
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: a kid imagining being chef, I really could never have

579
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: been envisioned any of this happening, and I'm thrilled that

580
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: it happens. So yeah, there's a little little bit of,

581
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, some price to pay for losing privacy, but

582
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, if it's okay in the end, it's very,

583
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: very worth it.

584
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: The fact that we get people to appreciate what we.

585
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: Do on a level that we do, it's just incredible,

586
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: Really is incredible, and I don't think anybody should lose sight

587
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: of that, especially those of us who remember what it

588
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: was like when we were still in the dark ages,

589
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, when we were in the back and no

590
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: one knew who we were and we toiled away in anonymity. Anonymity, yes,

591
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: for decades. It's definitely a lot better than that.

592
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: Do you think about having to stay relevant and whether

593
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: that's on TV or just in food, do you feel

594
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: like that's something you have to keep constantly doing? Stay relevant?

595
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: You know?

596
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: I feel that way in my business. I have to,

597
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, not only keep on top of the news

598
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: and have something to say about it, but I have

599
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: to keep presenting my reason for being here, you know.

600
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if you you guys as celebrity chefs,

601
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: feel that way too.

602
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: I think we probably don't. I probably don't think about

603
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: it enough. I probably should think about it more. I

604
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: keep believing that this food and good food and creating

605
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: good stuff, whether it's in your restaurant or outside of

606
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 1: your restaurant, is a form of relevance. But when you

607
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: look at food TV today, I think having a background

608
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: in gymnastics may be useful, so, you know, being able

609
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: to run around and overcome all kinds of physical challenges

610
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: cook in a very short timeline seems to be a

611
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: very helpful skill. So maybe I should have put a

612
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: little more time into that kind of ninja competition stuff

613
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: as a kid courses. Yeah, yeah, I probably should have

614
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: done the ABC Ninja show next, right, and then I

615
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: could have brought it all together and made like One Us, Yeah,

616
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: a big, beautiful competition reality show. But I don't think

617
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: about it enough. I'm gonna just say I don't think

618
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: about it enough. I think I need to think about

619
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: it more. And clearly, the types of people who are

620
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: becoming chefs have changed, and so there probably is a

621
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: new type of, you know, ideal chef personality that I'm

622
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: sure we will all be replaced with soon.

623
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeesh, bleak. But I totally relate, and we talk a

624
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: lot on this show about career arcs because at a

625
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: certain age, you're no longer at the beginning of your career.

626
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: Maybe you're not even in the middle of your career,

627
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: and that can be hard to navigate psychologically and emotionally,

628
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: and so we talk about that. We talk about mental

629
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: health a lot on the show. I'm wondering what you

630
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: would say, What stage of your career are you in

631
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: right now?

632
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: I am approaching the memoir stage of my career. I think,

633
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: love it.

634
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in the extended version of my career. But

635
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: here's the thing about chefs and why we're different. We

636
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: cook till the day we die. We never stop cooking.

637
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: Our career and our work are basically the same thing.

638
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: So we don't have our work that we do every

639
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: day and then think of our career is the separature.

640
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: You know. It's like I wake up and I cook eggs,

641
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: and that's my.

642
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: Career and my work and my job and my love

643
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: and my joy.

644
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's all wrapped up in one wonderful thing.

645
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: And it would be really weird if I got up

646
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: and no one was paying me, but I got up

647
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: and just like did the news in my bedroom, Like

648
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: that'd be weird. You're right, that's a different. You get

649
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: to do yours as long as you want.

650
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: I think that would be fun.

651
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, the chefs are different, right because we get

652
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: to do what we love every day, and if we're lucky,

653
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: we get paid for it. And I really hope that

654
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: the newer chefs feel that joy from cooking too, because

655
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: there are many times where you know, the career part

656
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 1: of it or the media part of it are not

657
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: going to be a you know, not going to be there,

658
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: and you have to love the work and the craft

659
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: itself has to deliver a lot of joy to your

660
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: body every day. And I still get Goose Holmes cooking. Still,

661
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: I still feel tremendous joy when I make something that

662
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: comes out well. And when I call my farmer friend

663
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: Hank and he picks tomatoes from me, it's a pinnacle

664
00:32:59,400 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: life moment.

665
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

666
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: So the career part is an interesting conversation, but it's

667
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: not something.

668
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: I'm dwelling on or worry about, you know.

669
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: I want to just keep cooking and whether that brings

670
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: me benefits in the new type of chef career that

671
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: exists now that didn't exist when I was a kid,

672
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: when chefs were not in the media and didn't write

673
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: books and didn't have, you know, six hundred projects working

674
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, and didn't have restaurants in Saudi

675
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: Arabia and Japan, you know, when my life was simpler.

676
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: So I can always go back to that very simple

677
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: chef life and be very happy.

678
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure if that answers your question. But

679
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: you know, obviously I'm in.

680
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: The later stages of my career, and whenever I worry

681
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: about it and I think about what that means, I

682
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: find immediate and deep comfort with the fact that I

683
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: can just do what I love to do, and that.

684
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: Is my career. So I love that.

685
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: That's a very cool place to be, you know, a

686
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: very poor part of what's different about chefs.

687
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: Well, I love that, and I haven't thought of it

688
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: like that. I you know, I had an actor on

689
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, and I, you know, asked

690
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 2: a similar question. He said, you know, I'm sixty five

691
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm just getting started, like I'm

692
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: just getting good at this, and he'd been doing it

693
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: for yeah, forty years, So you just never know. And I,

694
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: you know, it brings up a lot of it can

695
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: bring up a lot of feelings. Uh sure, Yeah, you know, disorientation.

696
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: And I talk about this with my therapist, just like

697
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure your actor friend did.

698
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: It's definitely a topic.

699
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: But I think if you're lucky enough to have the

700
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: craft embedded into your career. Yeah, you know, this actor

701
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: friend of yours can go do you know? One man

702
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 1: shows in Broadway and off Broadway, and.

703
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: That's what he's say.

704
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: You can stand up in front of a craft and

705
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: deliver I'm hoolou and feel pretty good about his career.

706
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's exactly what he said. He loves doing

707
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: it so much. The accolades, the money, the fan like,

708
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: that's so secondary and I completely understand that.

709
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: And I do understand what your friend is saying because

710
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: acting and cooking are similar in that you need many,

711
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: many years of experience to truly truly understand what you're doing. Yeah,

712
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: there are days, you know, very recently where I feel

713
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: like I could finally say, wow, I've really learned a lot.

714
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: I can look at almost any ingredient and know what

715
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: to do. And you know that's after thirty years of cooking.

716
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: So you mentioned therapy. I talk about therapy all the

717
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: time too, because it's been.

718
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 3: Big fan, big fan, Oh, me too, there's a therapy

719
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: more me or you. Let's guess.

720
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: I mean I live for therapy. Therapy saved my life. Yes,

721
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 2: it's still saving my life every week.

722
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's the best thing ever can we do?

723
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: If I've been a rant on therapy?

724
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, go, So that's the best part of therapy.

725
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: Well, the fact that there is a person who is

726
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: trained to listen, understand help that doesn't have a personal agenda,

727
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: that is enmeshed with your life.

728
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 3: Think about that.

729
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: There is no one in your life you're not your mom,

730
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: not your dad, not your significant other, your best friend

731
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: that won't have a personal agenda because of how their

732
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: lives intertwined with their lives. So you'll never get objective, fully,

733
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: you know, properly objective feedback. Even a therapist has a

734
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: little bit of an agenda and they're human and they can't,

735
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: you know, help but to not be one hundred percent

736
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: objective all the time. But you know, your friend, your mom,

737
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: and your dad are always going to be subjective, and

738
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: you need objective advice. You need people in your life

739
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: who are trained, first of all, you know, smart of course,

740
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: who have experienced, who understand, who have seen a lot

741
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: of people go through what you go through. Those are

742
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: the people who were really qualified to help you get

743
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: through these situations, and there's still stigma. What's up with

744
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 1: the stigma, guys? I mean the therapists in second grade.

745
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: I shed the stigma like in the seventies, and you know,

746
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: figured out that it wasn't worth worrying about. You know,

747
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was in therapy until I went

748
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: to college.

749
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: What'd you think you were doing?

750
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: I thought I was going to playgroup. Nice.

751
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: I thought it was playgroup, yeah, because because it started

752
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: out with a bunch of kids playing in a room

753
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: separate from the classroom, and then eventually it was just

754
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: me playing in a room separate from the classroom. And

755
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: then eventually there was no playing, it was just talking.

756
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize that, you know, had gone from

757
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: basically a kid's playgroup to you know, real proper therapy

758
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: until I went to college and they said, are you

759
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: in therapy? And I said no, And they said, well,

760
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: we're looking at your records and it says you've been

761
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: a therapy since nineteen seventy something.

762
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 3: It was like, oh, that's what that was. Okay, Yeah,

763
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: so I guess I've been a therapy anyway.

764
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: I really enjoy I look forward to talking to my therapists.

765
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,959
Speaker 1: And if you're a person out there who's thinking maybe

766
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: a therapist can help me, absolutely they can help you,

767
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, And it takes time to find the right person.

768
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: You go through a few people.

769
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: And that's okay, and that's okay, and you can take

770
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: breaks and you can you can do it five days

771
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: a week if you want, once a month, once a

772
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 1: year anyway.

773
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I appreciate.

774
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: My endorsement for therapy. The profession is over. No.

775
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because it's important to me my mantra

776
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: as always, when you talk about mental health, it makes

777
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: it easier to talk about mental health. And that's the

778
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: whole point that, you know, to end the stigma and

779
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: the silence and make it a nat thing to start

780
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: sentences with. Well, my therapist was saying, right like, that's

781
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: what I want. I just want to normalize it to

782
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: the point where it yet we don't even have to

783
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: talk about mental health as its own category. It's just

784
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: you're talking about the shit you're going through in very real,

785
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: practical ways because we're all going through something. I don't

786
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: know anyone who's not going through something and so you know,

787
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: either you're dealing with it, working on it, getting help,

788
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, doing the things, or you're ignoring it. And

789
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: we all know how that's going to end when you

790
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: ignore it.

791
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it really works.

792
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: You know, there's training that occurs in therapy that helps

793
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: you recognize patterns, impulse, you know, just things that you

794
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: don't realize you're doing that you can train yourself to

795
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: stop doing. There are things that you need to be

796
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: doing more of that you can train yourself to be

797
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: doing more of.

798
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: Yep.

799
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: It is very effective, is very effective. So my first

800
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: form of therapy was cooking because you know, cooking really

801
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: captures your entire attention. You have to be ultra focused

802
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: and so less opportunity to get into the trouble. And

803
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: then then of course proper therapy with real PhDs you know,

804
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: took over and end helped a lot.

805
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: It's a real thing. I know in some people's mind,

806
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: especially people of a generation, they think it's like huy

807
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: and fake and made up. No, it's a real thing.

808
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: It's a science. And you will be amazed at when,

809
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: like when you say something, they'll be like, I know

810
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: what that is. That's a thing, and let me explain

811
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: where that's coming from, and all the things will click

812
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 2: and you'll be I mean, you just feel so much

813
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 2: less alone when something has a name and then a

814
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: reason behind you to diagnosed, and here's how to get

815
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: out of doing that. It's so great that such a relief.

816
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

817
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: Before we get to a lightning round, I've got one

818
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 2: more question.

819
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: Oh there's a lightning round.

820
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: No one told me about the lightning round, Derek, there's

821
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: a lightning round. There was no lightning round mentioned in

822
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: my emails, Lauren.

823
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: Sorry, we spring it on you. We spring it on you. No,

824
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: it's easy and fun. But before I just have one

825
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: more question about the Hantons. What's going on in the Hamptons.

826
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: I am hearing about these market wars, these like high

827
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 2: and grocery store wars that are like taking over the Hamptons.

828
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 2: Is that what is happening right now?

829
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, they're you know, the Sagaponic General Store is

830
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: totally taking over the Hamptons.

831
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: I don't think anything is happening in the Hampton is.

832
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: Most people are asleep out here. There's nothing happening out here.

833
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: It's a very sleepy part of the world. There's a

834
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: little bit of nightlife. There's a few restaurants, and you know,

835
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: most of the time people are home lounging, lounging in

836
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: a chair, you know, trying to get some a little

837
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: sun tam. But there are you know, high end general

838
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: stores and you know stores that sell gems and jellies

839
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: and farm stands, and they've become you know, super high end,

840
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: and I think those that's it. That's it, that's all

841
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: that's happening. There's nothing, there's no nothing more than that.

842
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: I am running a pop up out here though, called

843
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: pop Up by Rocco. So yes, if if this happens

844
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: to make it to air or whatever you call it

845
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 1: in this podcast world these days, I don't know anym

846
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: or before the podcast is over, I'd love for people to.

847
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: Come come on in. When can they come in in Southampton?

848
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 3: Where in Southampton? I make really good food. I'm on

849
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: the line cooking every night. It's great. I love it.

850
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: But when can they come in? How long is the

851
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: pop up?

852
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: Oh? Oh, it's don until Labor Day?

853
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: Perfect? Perfect? Everybody?

854
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: Well are you coming in and bring Derek and Lauren?

855
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: I will come in.

856
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: That would be good. Do you get out here. I do.

857
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 3: I do.

858
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: I have friends in East Hampton, so I'm out there.

859
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: Great.

860
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, So on the way to east, make a pit

861
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: stop in South Set around six o'clock.

862
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, perfect, maybe I'll finally get to see you.

863
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, would be great, would be great.

864
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the lightning round.

865
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: Lightning rounds frighten me. They always have, but go ahead.

866
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: People say that, I don't know why. This is the

867
00:41:54,120 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: easiest part of the podcast. Okay, Manhattan or New England

868
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: clam chowder?

869
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: Obviously New England clam chowder for all the right reasons.

870
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 3: It's a lot better correct answer.

871
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: What's the best way to make and eat a lobster roll?

872
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 3: I think?

873
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: I think I'm not from Maine, so lobsteroll is in

874
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: my backyard, but I think it's all butter and it's

875
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: lobster claws only. Is the way to do it with

876
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: a split top? Butnt I think that's the way.

877
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: I'm As a New Englander, I will sanction this answer, right, Okay?

878
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: Great?

879
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? Are you allowed to put grated cheese on pasta

880
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: with shellfish?

881
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: You're that's a terrible question.

882
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: You know you're not, But it's sometimes I know that

883
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: you know you're not, But sometimes it tastes good.

884
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: Don't tell you sometimes you must. Don't tell anyone I

885
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: said it tastes good sometimes.

886
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way when I'm having lights,

887
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: but it's not allowed pasta and clams like sometimes I

888
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: want a.

889
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: Little, a little at the end of the day.

890
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: Parmagen reggiano is you know, msg and salt and a

891
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: little bit of dairy flavor.

892
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: And that works on seafood, you know, So.

893
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: It really does, especially like a diavolo where it's spicy

894
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: that the cheese can cool it down.

895
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 3: I think spicy needs palm for sure. For sure, I.

896
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: Would say in general it works against the seafood. But

897
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: there are exceptions, and you know, one of them is

898
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: a dish I make with saffron and shrimp that should

899
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: technically not need parm but is so much better with palm.

900
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: So I'll make it for you if you come out here,

901
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: we'll do it all.

902
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: Ok Uh.

903
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: French or Italian?

904
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 3: Wow?

905
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's a tough one because they're both great.

906
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: And why is this Spanish added to those?

907
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: Okay?

908
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: Because France, Spain and Italy I think are in this

909
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: eternal competition for who's the greatest makes the greatest food,

910
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: lives the greatest lifestyle. And it's a tough one because

911
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: they're all really good. They all have tremendous food culture.

912
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say that's a three way tie.

913
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: I like the addition of Spain because you're right.

914
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: Just think Harmoni, Baric Go and like just that alone

915
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 3: and they olive.

916
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: I went to c Comroca, Oh my god, and Girona

917
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: so incredible, incredible life changing.

918
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 3: Too much, right, it's too much, right, I know it's

919
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 3: too much. But the line.

920
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: Little mollusks urchin and then they bring out all the

921
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: little candies at the Oh my god, it's just too much.

922
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: And how about those people, they're pretty sexy.

923
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 2: I gotta say, incredible, incredible people. Yeah, what's the thing

924
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: you never.

925
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: Eat almost never eat fast food, never eat fast food?

926
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it's a good one. What's the thing we

927
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: should all be eating more.

928
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: Of tomatoes right now? Is should be eating tomatoes like crazy.

929
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: They are like God's handiwork at this moment, and they're

930
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: just perfect, and they they spark everything in your brain

931
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: and body and.

932
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: Make you feel everything. They're wonderful.

933
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: Love that a while Ago I wrote along a piece

934
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: about Rhode Island Kalamari and the there's a thing called

935
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: the Klamari index, which was a unit of measurement in

936
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: the New York Times that would sort of measure how

937
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: quickly a food item became suddenly ubiquitous. So, you know,

938
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: they had the Calamari index for like pesto and quinwa.

939
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: What is the item right now that would have the

940
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 2: highest Klamari Index rating?

941
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 3: Oh? Good question. Is it maybe ramen everywhere popping up everywhere?

942
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, in Western restaurants and Eastern restaurants, ramen everything.

943
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: That's a great answer. That's a great answer, And you're

944
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: so right. It's because it's it's everywhere, and people are

945
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: making it like high end, they're making it street food.

946
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're turning it into other dishes. They're re engineering

947
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 3: dishes to include ramen.

948
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: Many people are just focused on actual original ramen, which

949
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: is great too.

950
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty ubiquitous.

951
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: I would says that the very what's is it a

952
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: ten on the culinary in this or what's the index

953
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: from one to one hundred?

954
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 3: Ye to I think okay, so it's it's a nine.

955
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great answer. This is the final question.

956
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 2: It's really important to me. When is iced coffee season.

957
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 3: Okay, so.

958
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: One thing I learned from my Italian relatives is the

959
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 1: appreciation of coffee. And there's a coffee for every moment,

960
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,919
Speaker 1: every hour of the day, every day part. And there's

961
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: something called a sheikirato, which is espresso and ice shaken

962
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: until it's foamy. And it seems to me like there

963
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: is no bad time for that. But the best time

964
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: for that is an after end of afternoon sunny period. Yes,

965
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: where you've like made it to the end of the

966
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: day and you're tired and a little sweaty and you

967
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 1: need a refreshment, and that is around three o'clock in Italy.

968
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: I love that the espresso shekirato.

969
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 2: I love that it's so good to help you get

970
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: through your latini.

971
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit like the precursors to the fastage.

972
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 3: I love that.

973
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: Would I be ridiculed for ordering decaf coffee in Italy?

974
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: I don't think they'd have it. I don't think. Yes,

975
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: probably would be some ridicule.

976
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 2: Yep, I assumed as much.

977
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: Well, I really I've never heard of it, and I'm

978
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: sure it's there somewhere, but.

979
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 2: No, I suspect this is true. I grew up. I've

980
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: been drinking dunkin Donuts coffee since I was a child.

981
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: And oh, so you really are from New England.

982
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: I am, and I'm Italian, and so like, coffee is

983
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: a very big part of who I am.

984
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 3: Copp is Italian.

985
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 2: No I just being being Italian. Coffee is a big

986
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: part of who I am. And all the coffee you know,

987
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 2: history and the regimens, the routines and when you drink

988
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: this one and when you drink that one, like it's

989
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: I get it. But recently, I think because of perry menopause,

990
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: I had to switch to decaf. I'm very ashamed of it.

991
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: It's something I don't talk about a lot. I haven't.

992
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not completely okay with it personally, But

993
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: this is where I am. And so I've been wondering

994
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: if when I travel overseas to places like Italy, if

995
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 2: I were your own calf, would I be deported?

996
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: Definitely not deported. You know those Italians they're too lazy

997
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: to take a seriously.

998
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: But you might have to ask. In a few different places,

999
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: you might have to bring your own. It might be

1000
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: one of those situations where you need to bring your.

1001
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: Own coffee to Italy. Oh my god, Okay, I think

1002
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 2: I'll suffer through the caffeine when I go back to

1003
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 2: Italy rather than that.

1004
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: It Is it one of those situations where when you

1005
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: have it in Italy it's better, or because I've I've

1006
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: found that with many things that people complain about, dairy allergies,

1007
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: gluten analogies, they always sell, but when I'm in Italy

1008
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: it's never a problem. I don't know what the difference

1009
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: is and is it one of those situations it yet I.

1010
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: Haven't tested it because this is just in the past

1011
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: I'd say six months, So I will test it when

1012
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: I go back because of travel quite a bit, and

1013
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that's the case. I'm hoping that when I'm there,

1014
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: like you know, I don't get hungover when I'm overseas

1015
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: right as much, I think, because it's like mineral.

1016
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: Walking glut and you can eat dairy.

1017
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna also guess that one espresso in Italy contains

1018
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: about a twentieth of the amount of caffeine than a

1019
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: full Duncan does, probably a full cup of Duncan, because

1020
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: those are those are big.

1021
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: They are there an American size. Yeah, yes, well, rock

1022
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: O DeSpirito. This was so fun and I learned so

1023
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: much and it was just great to talk to you.

1024
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: And I will see you out in the Hamptons, I.

1025
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: Hope, so I really do, please come, seriously, it would

1026
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 3: be great. It would be great.

1027
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: Next week on Off the Cup, I sit down and

1028
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: talk to Sheena she author of My Good Side. I

1029
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: am so thankful that I've had the platform of reality

1030
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 2: TV to share my personal story, because that's not something

1031
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 2: you get with acting. Off the Cup is a production

1032
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network.

1033
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: If you want more, check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics,

1034
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup,

1035
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 2: I am your host, Se Cup. Editing and sound design

1036
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup,

1037
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you

1038
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:22,479
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.