Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with i Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
Speaker 1: the honor of representing the United States in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
Speaker 1: look forward to this for a while, you know it
Speaker 1: to be in this position now here we don't represent
Speaker 1: our country minutes, especially special Lebron James. We look for
Speaker 1: an opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being
Speaker 1: the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team
Speaker 1: is as it is right. We're the rest team in
Speaker 1: the world. We're the best team in the world. And
Speaker 1: we put Basketball America basketball wheat which is at the top.
Speaker 1: All Hello, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, all the
Speaker 1: ships that see. Welcome to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team,
Speaker 1: Episode six, which we're calling for reasons that will become clear.
Speaker 1: Redeemed Team b K Before Kobe, I'm Jack McCallum. You've
Speaker 1: already heard about the magnificent organizational job done by Jerry Colangelo,
Speaker 1: the Godfather. You can hear that Godfather music cued in
Speaker 1: by our wonderful technical person Mark Francis. The magnificent job
Speaker 1: that Jerry did in putting the team together, in the
Speaker 1: choice of Mike Shooski to coach this team. But this
Speaker 1: episode centers on the year two thousand six, when the
Speaker 1: team finally gets together, shows a lot of cohesi and
Speaker 1: a teamwork, and promptly takes a nose dive in the
Speaker 1: two thousand six World Championships in Japan. We'll be talking
Speaker 1: about that, but I want to begin with an off
Speaker 1: the court moment that occurred in two thousand six during
Speaker 1: the NBA playoffs and before the Redeemed team got together
Speaker 1: for its first practice. I've been doing this journalism thing
Speaker 1: for half a century now. There's countless games I remember,
Speaker 1: but there's also some great off the field, or in
Speaker 1: this case, off the court memories. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: about one because it ties in so nicely to the
Speaker 1: story of the O eight Redeemed team. But first I
Speaker 1: want to introduce my co host j A A. Dandhee
Speaker 1: and wonder do you have any of those moments? J
Speaker 1: A One of those like wonderful off the court moments
Speaker 1: that occurred around two thousand six. Well, yeah, very far
Speaker 1: from the court and very far from the NBA. In
Speaker 1: two thousand six, actually skipped out midway through the NBA
Speaker 1: playoffs to go over to Germany to cover the World Cup,
Speaker 1: the FIFA World Cup. I got a chance to go
Speaker 1: to Dirk Nobiski's home town in Wurtzburg. Actually watched the
Speaker 1: six game of the finals from a bar that they
Speaker 1: kept open all night because at the time difference uh
Speaker 1: and saw the heat finish off the Mavericks. A lot
Speaker 1: of the locals were saying nine nine every time Dirk
Speaker 1: would miss, so I was over there. So I actually
Speaker 1: kind of missed out on the OH six playoffs. It's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a blur for me. But I
Speaker 1: had a great time. I went to the Offbra house
Speaker 1: in Munich. I got to see the Olympic Stadium where
Speaker 1: Jesse Owens's name is still embedded all these decades after
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty six Olympics. But those are my memories
Speaker 1: from two thousand and six. It's weird. It's one of
Speaker 1: the few times that I wasn't actually at the NBA Finals. Well,
Speaker 1: mine comes from two thousand and six at around that
Speaker 1: same time. While you were drinking beer with all the Germans.
Speaker 1: I was actually at a dinner after the first round
Speaker 1: of the playoffs. I was working on a book about
Speaker 1: the uh the Phoenix Suns. They had just beaten the
Speaker 1: Lakers an amazing seven game series. I guess every series
Speaker 1: of Kobe's in has a way of being amazing. But
Speaker 1: they went to dinner at this great pizza place in Phoenix,
Speaker 1: and at the dinner was Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather. We
Speaker 1: don't have to cue the music, but Mike Sawski and
Speaker 1: Mike D'Antoni. And it was the first time Colangelo had
Speaker 1: gathered the Redeemed team coaches together to talk about what
Speaker 1: was going to happen later that summer when they finally practiced.
Speaker 1: What I remember Jay was the excitement of these guys.
Speaker 1: Uh Showsky just couldn't stop talking about d'antoni's offense, and
Speaker 1: he would say, so, you run the wings all the
Speaker 1: way to the corner right, and then D'Antoni would talk
Speaker 1: about spacing, and then Colangelo would talk about some of
Speaker 1: the players that he had already lined up and how
Speaker 1: excited they were to see Lebron and d Wade and
Speaker 1: they weren't going to see Kobe. You're gonna tell us why.
Speaker 1: And then uh D'Antoni would talk about international ball because
Speaker 1: he had been over in Italy for twenty years. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the pizza, which is world class by the way, Chris
Speaker 1: Bianco's pizza is recognized all around the country. The pizzas
Speaker 1: flying back and forth, and I'm the only one eating
Speaker 1: because these guys are just talking basketball. And what struck
Speaker 1: me and that was the seeds of the Redeemed team,
Speaker 1: that kind of enthusiasm. Here's these guys with like a
Speaker 1: collective a hundred and twenty years of experience, and they
Speaker 1: were just really, you know, anxious to get going. And
Speaker 1: the other weird thing was you think about these timelines,
Speaker 1: What a weird process this is to get an Olympic
Speaker 1: basketball team together. Jay Colangelo was named in April of
Speaker 1: two thousand five to be the new head of USA basketball.
Speaker 1: He finally selects Showsky in October of two thousand five,
Speaker 1: and you know, right at the beginning of that season,
Speaker 1: but the players they're not even gonna get together until
Speaker 1: July of two thousand six. You know, it's like asking
Speaker 1: somebody to the prom in April of one year. And
Speaker 1: then we're not gonna go until June of the following year.
Speaker 1: A lot can go wrong, so what do The thing
Speaker 1: you have to remember was how many players are involved
Speaker 1: in this kind of program. You can't just say here's
Speaker 1: the twelve guys we want because you never know what
Speaker 1: injuries other circumstances are gonna take. So all these different
Speaker 1: people are floating in and out of the Olympic program.
Speaker 1: Chauncey Billips, Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen, Joe Johnson, Brad Miller,
Speaker 1: and even agent zero Gilbert arenas Um. Now you have,
Speaker 1: you know the guys you want, Lebron and d Wade,
Speaker 1: and you certainly wanted Kobe, but for various reasons, Jay
Speaker 1: Kobe was not around for the two thousand and six
Speaker 1: team for the initial practices. What was going on with him? Well,
Speaker 1: Kobe coming off what was his high scoring season of
Speaker 1: his career average thirty five points per game that year,
Speaker 1: but his knee wasn't quite right, so he goes to
Speaker 1: get some of the scar tissue taken out of his knee.
Speaker 1: He felt like he didn't have full range of motion
Speaker 1: and so he couldn't participate with anything. The team USA
Speaker 1: did that year was recovering from the knee surgery. You
Speaker 1: couldn't even participate when Nike had a promotional event featuring
Speaker 1: FC Barcelona and Ronald Dino was there and and all
Speaker 1: the FC Barcelona players, and they wanted Kobe to kick
Speaker 1: around the soccer ball and play with them, and he
Speaker 1: couldn't even do that. And uh actually talked to him
Speaker 1: that day and he sort of gave me the update
Speaker 1: and how he's doing and what he thought about all
Speaker 1: these rivalries that were brewing up. Remember, Shack had won
Speaker 1: the championship that year in Miami's first post Kobe championship,
Speaker 1: and that infamous video, that rap that he made about Kobe. Uh,
Speaker 1: So I got Kobe's thoughts on that and about Dwayne Wade.
Speaker 1: But what was amazing was how quickly there was a
Speaker 1: sense of normalcy for him playing with Phil Jackson. And
Speaker 1: as we went into deep detail how things ended between
Speaker 1: Kobe and Phil in two thousand four. At that time,
Speaker 1: it seemed impossible to imagine that they could ever reunite.
Speaker 1: Phil had gone to management and asked for Kobe to
Speaker 1: be traded earlier in that season. Kobe really didn't put
Speaker 1: up a finger his instance, when Jerry bust. The Lakers
Speaker 1: owner said that he wanted to get rid of Phil Jackson.
Speaker 1: At the end of the season, they famously split up,
Speaker 1: and then Rudy tom Jonovitch has brought in to coach
Speaker 1: the Lakers. He lasts about a half a season when,
Speaker 1: citing health reasons, he he steps down, turns the team
Speaker 1: over to assistant coach Frank Hamblin, who had been a
Speaker 1: long time assistant for Phil Jackson. And somehow the notion
Speaker 1: of Phil Jackson coming back to coach the team. A
Speaker 1: few people brought it up and it doesn't get shot down.
Speaker 1: And when it first started circulating after Rudy tom Jonovich
Speaker 1: has gone Tim Brown, who was a Laker former Laker
Speaker 1: beat right at the l a times he emailed Phil
Speaker 1: Jackson and it turns out Phil was hanging out in Australia.
Speaker 1: Shout out to our producer Mark Francis from Australia. He's
Speaker 1: hanging out with Luke Longley, the Australian center who played
Speaker 1: for him in Chicago. And he responds in the email
Speaker 1: says asked whether he's gonna return, and Phil says, I'm
Speaker 1: mulling that over my mind. Luke and I are going
Speaker 1: for a swim this PM in the Indian Ocean. Thanks
Speaker 1: for the up to eight, Phil. So that's an ultimate
Speaker 1: film meeting right there, the only guy, the only guy
Speaker 1: ever to be swimming in the Indian Ocean with his
Speaker 1: backup center while while the fate of the Lakers, you know,
Speaker 1: the storied Lakers, is hanging in the air. A month later,
Speaker 1: Jerry Bust, the owner, meets with the media and it's
Speaker 1: clear that the door is wide open for Phil to return,
Speaker 1: and that it looks like it's going to be on
Speaker 1: the terms that Phil would want, which was about ten
Speaker 1: million dollars a year, and uh, but specifically doesn't say it,
Speaker 1: but you had the math and you connect the dots
Speaker 1: and it's clear where this is leading. And then Jack
Speaker 1: I'm driving home on Lincoln Boulevard after leaving the Laker
Speaker 1: practice facility, and I look at my rear view mirror
Speaker 1: and there's Phil Jackson behind me in his dark blue Porscha,
Speaker 1: and I think, oh my god, I'm gonna follow him
Speaker 1: wherever he goes. I'm gonna follow him, pull out and
Speaker 1: get the scoop. This is gonna be the most talked
Speaker 1: about story in the NBA. Once I talked to Phil
Speaker 1: Jackson about coming back to the Lakers, and then he
Speaker 1: gave me the slip. He somehow he was behind me
Speaker 1: and he turned as I was going through the intersection,
Speaker 1: and I tried to go circle back and try to
Speaker 1: see if I could catch up with them, and I
Speaker 1: lost him, but he was back for good. Soon enough,
Speaker 1: they announced that he was gonna come back and coach
Speaker 1: the Lakers, and improbably he and Kobe were reunited. Kobe
Speaker 1: signed off on it and went on to have again
Speaker 1: the high scoring season of his career, including the fabled
Speaker 1: eighty one point games. So this was Kobe as we've
Speaker 1: never seen him before, and Donald did realize he could
Speaker 1: co exist with Phil Jackson. I think he also saw
Speaker 1: that Phil Jackson's triangle offense was better suited for him.
Speaker 1: Rudy tom Jonovic had Kobe in the middle of the
Speaker 1: court and the help defenders could come from either side.
Speaker 1: Under the triangle, Kobe was off on the wing and
Speaker 1: he had the whole side cleared off, so it was
Speaker 1: harder for the double team to come. And Kobe flourished
Speaker 1: obviously had the best season of his career, but it
Speaker 1: became evident that he was only going to sign off
Speaker 1: on this if certain conditions were met. And Phil Jackson
Speaker 1: told us about the meeting that he had in the
Speaker 1: in the terms that were set for him to come
Speaker 1: back and coach the Lakers with Kobe Bryant. The Lakers
Speaker 1: made a novature and uh, you know, there are other
Speaker 1: teams in the market New York, Sacramento, Cleveland, some other
Speaker 1: teams that were, you know, kind of knocking at the
Speaker 1: door and of interest. But I always said, I have
Speaker 1: talked to Kobe first before I, you know, even think
Speaker 1: about coming back. So we talked and I just said,
Speaker 1: you know, what's the deal are you? Are you willing
Speaker 1: to come back and play, uh and team up together
Speaker 1: with me? And it's kind of an adventure. And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: but let's just keep everything between us. I know you
Speaker 1: a lot of times use the press to talk and
Speaker 1: use motivation by using the press to send a message
Speaker 1: to players. Let's just keep it between us. And uh,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I can do that. So we came
Speaker 1: back and literally formed a very strong bond. I was
Speaker 1: giving him about leadership and uh, there's something I talked
Speaker 1: to him about previously, um as as he grew up
Speaker 1: through the game about his leadership and about being a
Speaker 1: guy that you know, would be able to eat last
Speaker 1: and let his uh his teammates go to the banquet
Speaker 1: table first, so to speak. And you know he was
Speaker 1: picking up on that idea. But it was always it
Speaker 1: was always difficult for Kobe to put others in in
Speaker 1: in front of himself, and we had to have a
Speaker 1: number of talks during the course of those next two years,
Speaker 1: but you know, it ended up we were usually sitting
Speaker 1: on the plane across from each other and spending time
Speaker 1: talking about the connection or the team or what was
Speaker 1: needed to do to be the best we could be.
Speaker 1: And uh, I really honored that and Jackie did hold
Speaker 1: to that. So right before it turned out to be
Speaker 1: the last game, Phil Jackson coach in the playoffs, I'd
Speaker 1: noticed that he never bad mouth Kobe in the press,
Speaker 1: which was very unusual for Bill. And I said, did
Speaker 1: you have a deal with Kobe that you wouldn't talk
Speaker 1: about him in the media, And he admitted, yeah, he did,
Speaker 1: and uh he held to that he didn't talk bad
Speaker 1: about Kobe publicly. That whole second run that they had together.
Speaker 1: That Kobe in that oh five oh six season was
Speaker 1: just crazy. It was Kobe unleashed. Yeah, he was on
Speaker 1: another planet. And I went out to l A to
Speaker 1: do a story on, uh, the scoring race, because it
Speaker 1: really wasn't a race. We knew Kobe was gonna win,
Speaker 1: but Iverson was coming into town, and the idea of
Speaker 1: the story was this kind of two guys that just
Speaker 1: score the freaking ball and we don't care, you know.
Speaker 1: So I talked to Kobe about it and Kobe is
Speaker 1: kind of smirking at me, you know, the Kobe smirk. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is a race now, huh is that what it is? Well,
Speaker 1: he gets in there on Friday night, goes for forty
Speaker 1: eight against Iverson the next night, he's playing against the Clippers,
Speaker 1: and he's got uh ten points at halftime, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I got this story done. You know, I'm staying at
Speaker 1: a hotel. They closed down the restaurant early. I got
Speaker 1: this story done. I can sneak out of here. You know,
Speaker 1: Kobe's just mailing this one in. As I go out
Speaker 1: and start to go out the door of the Stable Center,
Speaker 1: Kobe starts going nuts. He gets forty in the second
Speaker 1: half and ends up with fifty. I come back into
Speaker 1: the uh the Stable Center, and someone who shall remain nameless,
Speaker 1: although it's Rick Buker. Buker tells Kobe later, hey, you
Speaker 1: know Jack left, you know, before you before you finished,
Speaker 1: and Kobe was just heats so enjoyed this moment. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was smirking about, oh yeah, oh this is a race,
Speaker 1: so I'm really not thinking about that. And then he
Speaker 1: gets out and goes for forty eight and fifty into
Speaker 1: uh in consecutive nights. I mean, he was just he
Speaker 1: was just a machine. But Mike Saski didn't have him
Speaker 1: in the summer of Oath six. And one of the
Speaker 1: guys that, uh, he's really counting on, you know, obviously
Speaker 1: is Lebron. We're gonna talk about him. But one of
Speaker 1: the other guys you mentioned before, and that is d Wade,
Speaker 1: the guy Flashes he was known then, or the guy
Speaker 1: Mike Shaski calls a calm rocket man. He just came
Speaker 1: in and exploded offensively and defensively. He was remarkable, really
Speaker 1: on that team. You're listening to Kobe, Lebron and the
Speaker 1: redeem Team will be back in a minute, So talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about Wade that season, Jay and the
Speaker 1: conversations we've had off zoom I admitted he caught me
Speaker 1: a little by surprise with that memorable two thousand three draft.
Speaker 1: I guess I saw him as a little bit position
Speaker 1: lists because although his size translated obviously to a guard,
Speaker 1: it didn't seem like he was a shooter at all.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't picture Dwayne having this knockdown jump
Speaker 1: shot like most shooting guards would have. But you were
Speaker 1: a little bit higher on his game when he came
Speaker 1: into the league. Yeah. I love the fact that he
Speaker 1: had taken Marquette to the Final Four. And I put
Speaker 1: a big premium on college success and what you do
Speaker 1: in an somebody's tournament. I know a lot of talent
Speaker 1: evaluators and general managers in the NBA, their their work
Speaker 1: has done a lot of times. At the time they
Speaker 1: get to March, they're not gonna be swayed by a
Speaker 1: few games here there. But to me, if you can
Speaker 1: succeed under that pressure and under uh that situation where
Speaker 1: all the lights and attention are on you the best
Speaker 1: that there is at your level, that means something to me.
Speaker 1: And most great players in the NBA had great success
Speaker 1: in the n C Double A tournament, at least up
Speaker 1: until the high school or the one and done era
Speaker 1: of the last twenty or so years, and Wade was
Speaker 1: one of those guys who we maybe hadn't heard of
Speaker 1: him much before the tournament, but we certainly heard of
Speaker 1: him after the tournament. And then within a couple of
Speaker 1: years in the NBA, after Michael Jordan's advocated that the
Speaker 1: title of best shooting guard the best perimeter player, and
Speaker 1: it was still a big man dominated shack and and uh,
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were the focal points of
Speaker 1: the league, I'd say, but there was a battle for
Speaker 1: the best perimeter player, and Wade had definitely inserted himself
Speaker 1: in that conversation. During the two thousand five playoffs, I
Speaker 1: went down and actually talked to Eddie Eddie Jones, who
Speaker 1: was on the on Miami at that point, but it
Speaker 1: played with Kobe since Kobe's rookie year in l A
Speaker 1: and I asked him to compare the two and he
Speaker 1: started squirming and he said he really couldn't pick between
Speaker 1: the two of them. And then in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: of course, Wade wins the NBA Finals and his the
Speaker 1: Finals MVP, and he's, uh, you know, he's he's up
Speaker 1: there it's a legit conversation that we're having, So that's
Speaker 1: sort of the backdrop as we get into that. Wade
Speaker 1: had a stat where only he and Larry Bird we're
Speaker 1: the only player is to put up. I think the
Speaker 1: thresholds are like average twenty five points, eight rebound, seven assists,
Speaker 1: and shoot better than and not one but two series
Speaker 1: in the same postseason, and some of the other guys
Speaker 1: who have done it in a single series, we're like
Speaker 1: Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan's. So Wade's
Speaker 1: in that all time company with the way he's playing,
Speaker 1: and he's certainly in the conversation for best perimeter player
Speaker 1: with Kobe at that moment. He almost created In the
Speaker 1: two thousand six finals j which I covered, he almost
Speaker 1: created this new position. It was like not shooting guard,
Speaker 1: he was like slashing guard. They got they were down
Speaker 1: two oh to the Mavericks. Game three, Wade gets forty
Speaker 1: two points. Game four he gets forty three. Game six,
Speaker 1: close out he gets thirty six. And the amazing thing
Speaker 1: was the number of free throws he shot twenty five
Speaker 1: in that game five, the exact total shot by the Mavericks.
Speaker 1: You can imagine what Mark Cuban was like after that.
Speaker 1: Then next game, the closeout game, he shoots twenty one
Speaker 1: free throws, which was only two fewer than the MAVs,
Speaker 1: who you know, kind of depend a little bit on Dirk's.
Speaker 1: It was explicable, but Mark Cuban was just going insane.
Speaker 1: But oh my god, but I have I've honestly rarely
Speaker 1: seen maybe a couple of Jordan's. I've rarely seen a
Speaker 1: championship series where you could say one guy really did it.
Speaker 1: Shack was on that team, but he was smart enough
Speaker 1: by then. If Dwayne has gone to the basket, get
Speaker 1: the hell out of the lane because he's going to
Speaker 1: get it there or he's going to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: or he's going to get fouled. And and that was
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade around this time. Now you know he's coming
Speaker 1: in also. But there's also Lebron there, and Lebron's coming
Speaker 1: off a monster season like thirty one point seven rebounds,
Speaker 1: six and a half assist. He's going to be a leader.
Speaker 1: And while establishing exact team chemistry isn't possible since Kobe
Speaker 1: isn't there. It's kind of like planning a dinner party
Speaker 1: when you don't have the entree uh there yet to
Speaker 1: bring in some food network. Uh, you know, action to it.
Speaker 1: You can at least start to form. Lebron was always
Speaker 1: a team guy. You know, Look, Lebron is going to
Speaker 1: come in and uh and be a team guy. And
Speaker 1: and that that forged. They started to forge a very
Speaker 1: tight team. We're gonna talk in the next episode about
Speaker 1: how that potentially could have changed when Kobe came in.
Speaker 1: But Craig Miller, who has been the USA Basketball's head
Speaker 1: of public relations since before the Dream Team, he reflected
Speaker 1: on how really tight that team seemed to be. The
Speaker 1: redeem Team seemed to be right from the beginning. I
Speaker 1: think that in all my Olympic experiences from two thousand
Speaker 1: and sixteen, it would rival the ninety two Dream Team.
Speaker 1: And and they're very different because the ninety two Dream
Speaker 1: Team didn't have a lot of guys that knew each
Speaker 1: other really well, and they became close. But then the
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight team, you know, d Wade, Lebron,
Speaker 1: Chris Paul Carmelo, Anthony, Chris Bosh, they were already friends. Um,
Speaker 1: and there's others. I'm probably missing a few that I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking of, but the bonding of that team just
Speaker 1: from the start, and part of it again was, you know,
Speaker 1: they practiced together in two thousand and six. For the
Speaker 1: most part, you had the same court group. Two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven. You had eight of the players that would
Speaker 1: go on to the Olympics were on the two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven team, So you had a really really tight
Speaker 1: team that liked each other. And you know, sometimes teams
Speaker 1: jaeled differently. There's other teams that I remember that we're
Speaker 1: very successful, but they didn't have maybe the chemistry. So Jay,
Speaker 1: everybody's happy with or without Kobe. We're all together. It's
Speaker 1: on to Japan, to the World Championship, where we're going
Speaker 1: to kick ass. But well not so fast. We're going
Speaker 1: to get to the game in a in it. But
Speaker 1: there's something gone on around the league around this time, Jay,
Speaker 1: and that is the adoption of the dress code before
Speaker 1: the oh five oh six season, and it plugs in
Speaker 1: to something that happened at these World Championships in Japan.
Speaker 1: I was around the Suns at that time, and I
Speaker 1: remember Mike D'Antoni making a joke about Steve Nash, and
Speaker 1: his joke about Steve was Steve is gonna be in
Speaker 1: violation even when he's under compliance, meaning that Steve's geen
Speaker 1: and T shirt kind of punk rock look, you know,
Speaker 1: really should be against the spirit of the dress code.
Speaker 1: But I don't think the dress code was put in
Speaker 1: for people like Steve Nash. It definitely wasn't aimed at
Speaker 1: the Steve Nashes of the league. It was more about
Speaker 1: the Allen Iverson's and trying to curtail the impact of
Speaker 1: the Allen Iverson and what he represented, which was really
Speaker 1: the hip hop influence and the hip hop generation taking
Speaker 1: over the n b A. And it really was about
Speaker 1: the NBA's i'd say, their last efforts to appeal to
Speaker 1: the the white baby boomer generation and that element of
Speaker 1: the fan base, and and the corporate sponsors of the
Speaker 1: league who were uncomfortable to hip hop element. And and
Speaker 1: you mentioned that it comes into play in the in
Speaker 1: the oh six uh international competition. But also like this
Speaker 1: entire redeemed team and this entire podcast has some roots
Speaker 1: in two thousand four and that two thousand four Olympic team,
Speaker 1: and reportedly there is a dinner. The Washington Post wrote
Speaker 1: about this. In two thousand four, the Serbian national team
Speaker 1: invited TEAMOSA to a dinner and serving players all show
Speaker 1: up and they're wearing these matching sport coats. And the
Speaker 1: Americans roll in and they've got baggy jeans and sweats
Speaker 1: and loose clothing, clothes hanging all off of them. And
Speaker 1: word got back to David Stern, the NBA commissioner in
Speaker 1: New York, and he was not happy at all. And
Speaker 1: this has been building, This sense has been building for
Speaker 1: a while that we need to do something about the
Speaker 1: image of our players and how they're presented. Because we're
Speaker 1: long past the era of Michael Jordan's and Scottie Pippen
Speaker 1: showing up to games and immaculately tailored suits. Guys are
Speaker 1: dressing the way their generation is dressing now, uh, the
Speaker 1: way the hip hop generation is dressing. And the league
Speaker 1: thought it was a bad look, so they put in
Speaker 1: the dress code formalized things a little bit. Of course,
Speaker 1: there's there's all this backlash because of of the racial
Speaker 1: undertones to this story, but I was actually okay with it.
Speaker 1: I called John Thompson, the Georgetown coach who used to
Speaker 1: make Alan Irison wear a coat and tied two games
Speaker 1: and whenever that team traveled. When Iverson was at Georgetown,
Speaker 1: and John's message that he thought the players would learn
Speaker 1: is that, look, somebody's always in charge, and it ain't
Speaker 1: always you, and so sometimes you gotta get in line
Speaker 1: and do what the boss tells you to. And for me,
Speaker 1: it was about not the players and the image that
Speaker 1: they project, but the impact they could have on young
Speaker 1: young African Americans who were going to be entering the
Speaker 1: job market and didn't have the luxury of dressing however
Speaker 1: they wanted if they wanted to be employed. But as
Speaker 1: I recalled, Jay, you were a suit. You were aware
Speaker 1: of suit to the game guy, right as I recall,
Speaker 1: definitely I would wear suits. And that was sort of
Speaker 1: a black sportswriter thing, going back to my early days
Speaker 1: and seeing the way that Michael Wilbon dressed or or
Speaker 1: the black sportswriters that covered the New York Knicks. They
Speaker 1: were always well dressed, and so that's what I adopted.
Speaker 1: But also from my early internships, I've been told, hey,
Speaker 1: where a tie. If you're a young black male trying
Speaker 1: to get into this business, you need to look the part.
Speaker 1: Where a tie? And so even though the players fought
Speaker 1: back about it, and yes, there were racial undertones to this,
Speaker 1: and it was about trying to satisfy one aspect of
Speaker 1: the fan base that they were probably in the process
Speaker 1: of losing anyway. Uh. But to me, the unintended edging
Speaker 1: cation that was John Thompson's freeze, the unintended education, UH,
Speaker 1: could benefit young people who are watching this and would say,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is the way you stress when
Speaker 1: you're going to work. Because for the young people that
Speaker 1: weren't gonna make it to the NBA, that was the
Speaker 1: way they had to dress if they wanted to get
Speaker 1: a job and be employed in corporate America. Meanwhile, I
Speaker 1: remember an All Star weekend where I was at the
Speaker 1: NBA party and I had on a sport coat, but
Speaker 1: underneath I had on a T shirt, which I thought
Speaker 1: was like appropriate dress T shirt, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: one of those class a silk T shirt. Maybe, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you know. I thought I was rocking it
Speaker 1: pretty well. I swear this is true that I took
Speaker 1: one of my friends to it, and he still brings
Speaker 1: it up to this day. I'm walking through the party
Speaker 1: and from across the room Stern goes David Stern goes McCallum.
Speaker 1: Nice T shirt. But I thought I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just thought I was kind of a uh. I just
Speaker 1: thought I was kind of a happening guy. But but anyway,
Speaker 1: this whole collision of dress code and the new generation
Speaker 1: led to a bit of a showdown during the World
Speaker 1: Championships in Japan when old school Jerry Colangelo, who I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what, j Jerry is never caught. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure I've ever seen Jerry without at least a sport
Speaker 1: code on, you know, never mind, uh usually even has
Speaker 1: a tie. And this caused uh an interesting collision. Here's
Speaker 1: coll Angelo talking about it. The Godfather I had one rule,
Speaker 1: no headphones on your head in in uh in public,
Speaker 1: and no scrapped you know, the strapped undershirts, none of that.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to look appropriate when you're out
Speaker 1: in public. So we're in support of Japan and that
Speaker 1: was the site of the preliminary ground and I'm there
Speaker 1: with the coaching staff and here Dwade, Wade, Carmelo and
Speaker 1: Lebron with headphones and there the strap hundred shirts that
Speaker 1: we didn't want. And so I was pretty upset about
Speaker 1: that because that was the direct slap in the face.
Speaker 1: So later that night, back at the hotel. We had
Speaker 1: we had a meeting and you know, the three players,
Speaker 1: coach k and myself. You know, that was that was
Speaker 1: that was an insult. That shows a lack of respect.
Speaker 1: Because as soon as they walked into the building with
Speaker 1: the headphones on and dressed the way they were, a
Speaker 1: couple hundred media turned around, and you know it's going
Speaker 1: to be all over the world. And that's not what
Speaker 1: I wanted. You know, I was trying to stay away
Speaker 1: from that kind of thing. So at the meeting, um,
Speaker 1: you know they're they're saying to me, know your relaxed, cool,
Speaker 1: you know, we're you know, it's not a big deal. No,
Speaker 1: I said, no, it is a big deal. When I
Speaker 1: say we're gonna have one rule and that's the rule,
Speaker 1: and some people choose to break it. You don't think
Speaker 1: that's a big thing. I said, it's a big thing.
Speaker 1: I said. Now, let me ask you a question, Dwayne,
Speaker 1: do you want me to to to do put some
Speaker 1: rules in like you have done in Miami under pat Riley.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, you didn't want that. And Carmelo
Speaker 1: had the same kind of response, and I said, and
Speaker 1: then Lebron in Cleveland, come on, give me a break.
Speaker 1: So we have a rule. It's not asking too much,
Speaker 1: and you guys let me done. Everybody apologized. That was
Speaker 1: the end of it. I never had another problem. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team. We'll be
Speaker 1: back in a minute. Team USA did have a problem
Speaker 1: on the court in the semifinals of the tournament when
Speaker 1: they were playing Greece, and Greece played a fantastic game.
Speaker 1: The US was mediocre at best team says fourteen and
Speaker 1: thirty four free toes. They made only nine of the
Speaker 1: three point shots, whereas Grease made shots over the last
Speaker 1: three periods. At one point, the lead was up to fourteen,
Speaker 1: US got it down to five. Greece come down, hits
Speaker 1: a three pointer and that was basically it. And they
Speaker 1: just they killed the US, particularly in the third quarter.
Speaker 1: They kept running the pick and roll and the US
Speaker 1: just looked helpless defensively against it. They ran it over
Speaker 1: and over again. And here's Chris Boss describing that helpless feeling.
Speaker 1: It was so embarrassing losing to Greece, and hats off
Speaker 1: to them. They played a great game. They ran one
Speaker 1: play to close out the game. And as a player
Speaker 1: sometimes you get into this situation to where it's like,
Speaker 1: where is it's tenor and where are they coming from?
Speaker 1: We gotta stop the bleeding, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And we were just behind and everything that we did.
Speaker 1: You can't be in between going you know, oh I'm
Speaker 1: gonna trap, but I'm up, but I'm back. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to make a decision. And after getting used
Speaker 1: to seeing a lot of picking rolls, I said, you know,
Speaker 1: let me be I remember Coach k says until me
Speaker 1: one time. He probably doesn't even remember, but he was,
Speaker 1: You're on the screen and roll you armed was so long, man. Oh,
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, that's how I'm gonna play. So because
Speaker 1: of that game, the US change its defensive strategy and
Speaker 1: Bosch as We're Gonna see became increasingly important. But in retrospect,
Speaker 1: though as depressing as the loss was, maybe it was crucial.
Speaker 1: As Mike D'Antoni says, that was a big deal. And uh,
Speaker 1: but we knew that it was gonna be hard. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, every game wasn't like it's not like you're
Speaker 1: just gonna win by fourteen. When you play a forty
Speaker 1: minute game with the three point line that close, Um,
Speaker 1: that's what makes it exciting. Anything can happen, you know,
Speaker 1: forty eight minute game and you you know, got a
Speaker 1: longer three. Uh, it's a little bit the talent really
Speaker 1: at the end of the game kind of comes out
Speaker 1: and the best team, best talented team wins. But when
Speaker 1: you were you know, spread like that, and uh, some
Speaker 1: team could get hot, and uh that's what Greece did
Speaker 1: to us. You know, we probably underestimated how they just
Speaker 1: carved us up with a pick and roll. And that
Speaker 1: was one thing that we had to sob in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Um, but it was a little bit
Speaker 1: of a wake up call. So it might be cliche,
Speaker 1: but it was a wake up call and it was
Speaker 1: a memorable moment. And if you look around in it,
Speaker 1: there's images of Carmelo, Anthony and Lebron James walking off
Speaker 1: the court dejected lee while you see the Greeks gathered
Speaker 1: in a circle happily celebrating, uh their victory, while the
Speaker 1: Americans slink off in defeat. And then Carmela actually stuck
Speaker 1: around a little bit longer and just kind of biting
Speaker 1: his lip and looking around in the stands, and he
Speaker 1: shared with us his memories of what that moment was
Speaker 1: like for him, I'm standing on the court after the game.
Speaker 1: Lebron is like, we're both standing on the court, and
Speaker 1: I just remember like looking up and looking at the
Speaker 1: stands and just seeing the crowd going crazy and things
Speaker 1: being thrown on the corner. Just it was it wasn't
Speaker 1: even a check to gold medal game. So but we
Speaker 1: were the gold medal were the gold medal game for them.
Speaker 1: So I really stand on the court and I looked
Speaker 1: we we looked at each other, man Braun. It was
Speaker 1: just like, yo, we gotta be back right. We are
Speaker 1: never and we never want to feel that have this
Speaker 1: feeling ever again. And the Godfather remembered too. And so
Speaker 1: we lose the game, but it kind of made us
Speaker 1: more committed, if if there's such a way to be
Speaker 1: more committed coaches, chefs. He came off the floor, met
Speaker 1: me eyeball to eyeball and said, I'm sorry. I apologized, Hey,
Speaker 1: start your fault, but you know what we're this is
Speaker 1: going to make us even more committed to what needs
Speaker 1: to be done. I refused to look at the replay
Speaker 1: of that game. I just did. A year later, in
Speaker 1: oh seven, I'm on a plane going to China, in
Speaker 1: terms of preparation for OH eight, and Sean Ford had
Speaker 1: a copy of the game and he knew I hadn't
Speaker 1: watched it. He says, do you want to watch it?
Speaker 1: I said, no, I don't want to watch it. I
Speaker 1: remember everything. I don't need to watch it. It's a
Speaker 1: long fight. So eventually I watched it, and I was
Speaker 1: just as upset after watching it as I was when
Speaker 1: it happened originally. But it made a point and we
Speaker 1: were all refocused, recommitted, and I think it helped us tremendously.
Speaker 1: And Mike Schefsky had a couple takeaways from this loss.
Speaker 1: The first was a lesson in international etiquette. Let's say
Speaker 1: a protocol. And Jack, I don't know if you've experienced this,
Speaker 1: but for example, college basketball coaches if they're playing a
Speaker 1: nonconference opponent or if they're playing an incidable tournament, and
Speaker 1: I think we see this sometimes in international basketball as well.
Speaker 1: But what they'll do is, because they don't want to
Speaker 1: confuse their players when they're going through the scouting reports
Speaker 1: or watching film, they'll just refer to the opposing players
Speaker 1: by numbers because they don't need to clutter the minds
Speaker 1: of their players and having them thinking who's who and
Speaker 1: trying to learn all these different names, many in foreign languages.
Speaker 1: So rather than confuse them, they'll just use the number
Speaker 1: and say number twenty two likes to shoot from the
Speaker 1: left corner, or you know, switch when we've got thirteen
Speaker 1: and fifteen on the pick and roll, so they'll just
Speaker 1: go over like that. And Sawski was following that that
Speaker 1: typical behavior, and so after the loss to Greece, when
Speaker 1: he's meeting with the media in the press conference, he's
Speaker 1: just referring to the players by their numbers, and the
Speaker 1: international media in particular, they don't operate that way, and
Speaker 1: they found it incredibly disrespectful for the United States coach
Speaker 1: to not actually use the names of the Greek players
Speaker 1: who just beating his teams. So Showski kind of got
Speaker 1: beaten up over that. So he learned his lesson and
Speaker 1: going forward, when whenever team you say it was an
Speaker 1: international competition, he made sure that he used the names
Speaker 1: of players when he was talking about the other team.
Speaker 1: But the more important takeaway for him was learning and
Speaker 1: being reminded that the team and the players felt this way,
Speaker 1: that they would win together or lose together. And the
Speaker 1: best part for coach k was that this was not
Speaker 1: something that he had to instill. He saw them take
Speaker 1: ownership of that himself. So that was one of the
Speaker 1: things that he took away from that two thousand six
Speaker 1: loss and took us losing in two thousand six to learn.
Speaker 1: And but I'll tell you one thing from that. I
Speaker 1: can remember after we lost to Greece, sitting at the
Speaker 1: press table and their coach and a player and I'm
Speaker 1: with Carmelo, and they asked them losing player first, and
Speaker 1: Carmelo set the tone for what proved to be one
Speaker 1: of our foundation blocks for the redeemed team, and that
Speaker 1: was collective responsibility. He gave credit to the Greek team,
Speaker 1: no excuses, and for the next few months there was
Speaker 1: never any finger pointing by anybody. And I can remember
Speaker 1: getting together to qualifying two thousand and seven, and I
Speaker 1: told them how proud I was of him about collective responsibility,
Speaker 1: and I said, one of our goals should be, now,
Speaker 1: let's be collective responsible for winning. In other words, we
Speaker 1: went and we lose together. That's collective responsibility. Let's just
Speaker 1: win together and be collectively responsible. Okay, the game is over.
Speaker 1: Two thousand six, summer has ended, on a bummer, but
Speaker 1: a big change is about to come, Jake. Can you
Speaker 1: hear it? Can you hear the noise? Can you hear
Speaker 1: somebody coming? And they're sitting in the fields? Man, this
Speaker 1: is real. You know, Uhhobe is playing. Kobe is here.
Speaker 1: You know it's and you know you have to even
Speaker 1: though you play against them. He has an aura. So
Speaker 1: when you know he walked in the room, you're you know,
Speaker 1: everything stops. I'm Jack McCallum, I'm j Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team and remember Season
Speaker 1: one of the Dream Team Tapes, which talks about the
Speaker 1: Dream Team in Barcelona, is still available on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your favorite podcast.
Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. This season is written and hosted
Speaker 1: by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dandee, Executive producer
Speaker 1: Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast and Sean's
Speaker 1: High toned for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director is
Speaker 1: John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overseteghen Editing,
Speaker 1: mixing and sound designed by Mark Francez. Verna Fields is
Speaker 1: our technical producer, and our director of Marketing and business
Speaker 1: Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts