WEBVTT - The Highs and Lows of Being a Bitcoin Maximalist 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.440 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News, 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.160 and this is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily Bloomberg. I heard podcast. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:25.560 It's Thursday August. Some of the biggest and brashest figures 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.840 in crypto have faced staggering losses in the current downturn. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.800 Multiple crypto companies have filed for bankruptcy, and more than 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.120 one high flying crypto ceo has found themselves out of 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.080 a job. Case in point Michael Sailor, the co founder 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.760 and former CEO of a software services firm called micro Strategy. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.839 But software isn't what made micro Strategy a household name 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.199 among bitcoin believers. Instead, it was Sailor's decision to use 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.360 the company's balance sheet to bet big on bitcoin all 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.080 the way back in that really catapulted them into the 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.680 headlines for a while. As bitcoin prices rallied, that two 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.600 million dollar bet looked like a genius move. But as 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.880 prices fell, micro Strategy found itself facing significant losses. What 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.800 does this all mean for micro Strategy and for Michael Sailor? 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.119 For more? I'm joined by Bloomberg Senior editor Dave Litka. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:20.560 I believe he was on the back of the New 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.400 York Post as this man lost six billion dollars of 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.560 one day, and by Bloomberg accounting specialist Tom Kuntilliano, they 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.919 bought four billion dollars worth of a big climb between 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:41.000 here and there to discuss exactly what happened. Well, it 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.520 is a benefit of a place like Bloomberg where we 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.720 can have, you know, two people with highly specialist and 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.440 very different expertise to sort of combine into an episode 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.840 about one of the most colorful people in a very 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.880 colorful universe of crypto folks. And that is none other 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:03.440 than Michael Sailor, until recently, the CEO of a little 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.080 company or not a little company called micro Strategy, And Dave, 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.480 I would just like you to start from a place 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.160 of it may well be that our listeners are very 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.520 a way of Sailor. They're very aware of, you know, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.080 what a big proponent of bitcoin he was, but they 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.639 don't know anything about who he was before that big 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.120 bitcoin bet. Where did Michael Sailor come from? Sure? Great question. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.040 Um Sailor has been a colorful character for a very 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.359 long time, both on a local and uh in the 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.639 business world sense on it. He's very a self made 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:37.079 an amazing story. Was an Air Force sergeant's son ended 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.200 up getting a scholarship to M I T. Graduated from 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.160 there when in the industry, had some success there as 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:49.320 a early software consultant and developer, broke off with some 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.560 of his M I T buddies formed this business software 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.720 company and took off from there and was worth billions 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.640 by the time he was in his thirties. And this 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.919 was at heights of the first dot com boom? Is 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.079 that correct exactly? He rode that wave company was doing 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.520 great going into that did an I P O in 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:12.400 nine and again it was worth about seven billion at 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.639 his peak. Unfortunately, they ran into a counting issue about 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.040 two thousand the slot crashed. I believe he was on 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.120 the back of the New York Post as this man 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.200 lost six billion dollars of one day and they ended 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.959 up settling. And uh, he actually settled into obscurity for 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.560 a little while. Least the company did after that. Somehow. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.480 It's always an accounting issue. And so Tom, I'm gonna, 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.280 I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn to you. So Michael Sailor, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:47.240 colorful character, you know, has experience in software sales and services, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.840 has experiences of creative accounting and turns up new company, 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.640 co founder of something that's also a software services company. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.920 It's called micro Strategy. Sure, great, all typical. What was 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.000 a typical about micro Strategy as of a couple of 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.400 years ago. I think what was a typical about micro 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.880 Strategy was they, as Dave mentioned, they were sort of noon. 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.040 I mean, I was in Northern Virginia at the time 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.000 of the tech bubble. They were known as the company 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.040 that went to the Sun and then came back and 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.599 fell back. And it was until two years ago, unless 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.600 you really were paying attention to markets, that the name 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.360 really popped up again. Um, and it popped up again 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.360 in the context of bitcoin, and literally two years and 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.279 a week ago, bitcoin finally appeared on an earnings release 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.400 and became a separate strategy from from just being a 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.200 software intelligence company. And as of when that happened, were 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.000 they the first company to have bitcoin appear in a 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.000 balance sheet as far as you're aware, right around the 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.200 same time you had Tesla and and Square were also 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.400 the two companies publicly traded companies that made it part 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.880 of their their treasury um as well too, and that 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.560 they weren't crypto companies. In and of themselves, but they 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.279 were engaging in crypto. So they were engaging in crypto. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.400 But it seemed like micro Strategy, despite having as other 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:05.320 actual business and software services, really became known for its 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.280 bitcoin bets. Yeah. I mean two years ago they were 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.159 a billion dollar company. Within six months of getting into crypto, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.119 they seared twelve cks there were there over twelve billion 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.160 for a little while, um, and nothing had really changed 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.320 too much about the software business, but their their position 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.920 and bitcoin has only gotten bigger since then. And Dave, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.279 this is for you. It sounds like they were perceived 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.440 as like a bet on the direction of bitcoin, or 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.880 at least the potential direction of bitcoin. Their stock was Yes, 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.520 they basically became an investment play on or investment fund 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.760 to bet on bitcoin without actually buying bitcoin. Sailor again 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.760 rose the prominence mostly through social media for a lot 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.800 of crazy sayings and doubts about what bitcoin and how 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.040 would change the world, and people bought it, and for 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.600 a while it looked like he was right right. I 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.880 mean there if you look at sort of bitcoin charts 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.560 and a micro Strategy charts, it was like they were 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.000 the same chart for a minute there. But the problem 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.240 with that correlation is then bitcoin prices started going in 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.440 the other direction. That was not so helpful for them. 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.800 And Tom, what happens when you have bitcoin on your 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.280 balance sheet and the price of bitcoin suddenly starts going down. Yeah, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.640 the accounting for for bitcoin is a little little crazy 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.679 in that it's it's really the accounting for acquisitions, for 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.080 for buying another company that that we're using right now 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.560 for bitcoin. So hang on a minute. You're telling me, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:32.279 there's no like specialist this is how you account for crypto. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:33.919 It's like, this is how we account for other stuff, 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.400 and we're gonna apply that to crypto exactly. It's being 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.800 considered now by the governing body by fazz BE that 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.479 they will possibly come up with a tailored accounting for it. 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.839 But right now, long and short of it is, if 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.120 the value of crypto falls below what what micro strategy 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.280 bought it for, they have to write it down. They 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.920 have to write down the value of the asset, and 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.080 and it goes only in one direction. It doesn't come 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.960 back if if crypto should rebound, they don't get the 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.240 benefit of that, at least on their balance sheet. So, Tom, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.280 what I'm hearing from you is even if bitcoin were 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.680 to go, you know, as they say, to the moon again, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.320 micro Strategy would still have what looks like a hole 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.080 on their balance sheet. Yeah. From a financial statement perspective, 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.200 I mean they're number one. They're they're writing down bitcoin 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.560 pretty much every quarter since they've owned so their earnings 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.200 have been horrendous as a result, even though Bitcoin at 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.920 times has been a very profitable bet for them. And 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.800 then in terms of what you're talking about, the the 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.320 actual bitcoin itself on the balance sheet, all it does 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.600 is disappear every time they have to write it down. So, um, 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.000 they've written down more than half of the roughly four 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.560 billion dollars a bitcoin that they've bought since since they 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:43.120 began this for a and just so because sometimes accounting 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.040 and the real world seemed very far apart. When we 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.280 talk about writing down an asset. It doesn't mean that 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.080 they've gotten rid of it. It just means that they're 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.840 no longer considering it for accounting purposes. Yeah. Yeah, The 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.360 accounting on that is that it's considered impaired, meaning that 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.160 the value should never come back. But obviously, in the 0:07:58.160 --> 0:07:59.920 case of bitcoin, it it can come back in a 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.480 moment's notice, So it doesn't really match the reality. Thankfully, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.600 micro strategy does provide a lot of information, so investors 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.720 are able to figure out where they're where they truly 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.680 are positioned on a day by day basis. So from 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.080 what I'm hearing from you, they made a bet on 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.760 a bitcoin significantly benefited, you know, going from a billion 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.240 dollar company to a twelve billion dollar company just on 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.840 the strength of a two and fifty million dollar bets 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.520 on bitcoin. And now they're being I suppose punished is 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.960 too strong a word, but you know they're they're perceived. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:34.920 If you're just looking at the numbers in a very 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.760 specific way, how big do you think is the gap 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.360 between where they're valued at right now and what you 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.400 would consider or what maybe like accountants would consider it 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.880 to be a fair value for the company. Look at 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.680 the numbers, Like I said, they were about a billion 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.679 dollar company before getting into crypto, and given that's just 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.360 the value of the stock is just north of three billion, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.199 they bought four billion dollars worth of bitcoin between y're 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:04.040 in there. Uh that bitcoin is down as of today, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.160 it's down a billion dollars, right It's worth three billion 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.839 dollars right now. Um, so it's sort of spotsle on. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.360 In other words, yeah, yeah, I mean, look, you can 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.440 take the other the other flip side of the coin 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.720 is it's already up half a billion dollars since the 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.360 last quarter. Um, So it really depends on what the 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.199 what the measurements are that you want to use up next. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.720 You'll hear more from Bloomberg senior editor Dave Litka and 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.640 from our accounting specialist Tom Contuliano all about Michael Sailor 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:41.520 and micro Strategy. Micro Strategy is changing up its leadership. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.400 Michael Sailor, who co founded the company in nine nine, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.880 is giving up his CEO title, saying he will increase 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.440 his advocacy efforts for holding bitcoin. Michael, great to have 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:52.280 you with us, So talk to us about what drove 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.480 this decision to move on from that CEO spot. Is 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.360 it the end of the bitcoin era for micro Strategy? No, No, 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.400 it's the the getting of the bitcoin error. In kind 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.559 of a blockbuster announcements as part of their last earnings, 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.640 they said that he would no longer be the CEO 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.319 of the company. Dave, what went down there? Well, they 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:16.520 announced that he would now serve as executive chairman, and 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.760 that triggered a lot of speculation. Okay, was he pushed 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.240 because the bait went bad on it? It's still a 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.360 question that's unanswered. But he does the way they the 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.280 common shares of the company are structured, he does still 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.200 control the vast majority of the voting rights, so he's 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.240 still his own boss on it. Um, but you would 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.600 assume there has to be some pressure when you take 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.880 a billion dollar quarterly loss and you look at the 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:48.520 core business and sales are falling, right, So he's once 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:50.680 again in a position where he is a person who 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.880 looked like he lost a ton of money in a 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.000 very short amount of time. Sure, I would be surprised 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.120 if there's many folks who have lost more than a 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.959 billion dollars toy. I've been working with Fong on CEO 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.240 succession for about four years now, and it's always been 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.560 part of the plan. We finally got to the point 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.000 where we had Andrew our new cfol on board and 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.800 we could actually make the change in Pong told CEO. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.800 So I think that the markets responding to the fact 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.960 that now instead of two executives Sailor and Fong Lee, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.720 we have three executives, and um, it allows me to 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.800 do what I like to do. Which is bitcoin advocacy, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.440 Bitcoin Acquisition. I'll continue to provide oversight for Bitcoin Acquisition. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.960 Is the chair of the Investments Committee of the board. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.040 I'll stay as a chair of the board. So he's 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.600 still the controlling sharehold of the company. He's still the 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:47.120 executive chair of the board. What do we think is 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.560 kind of a meaningful next step from a business perspective 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.280 for micro Strategy, Tom, Like, do you think they're going 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.640 to go back to focusing on software? Is there a 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.640 universe in which the attempt to you know, I've off 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.920 the bitcoin owning section of the business, Like, what are 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.480 some of the kinds of strategies that you've seen in 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.760 the past with folks attempting to deal I mean, suppose 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.160 there's no really an exact comparable, but you know where 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.400 they're trying to isolate something that is no longer core 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.360 or perceived as core. Yeah, but you could also take 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.520 the opposite view that micro Strategy stock is almost tripled 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.720 since they got into bitcoin. Um, you could sit there 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.960 as a chairman CEO of the new CEO and say 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.520 this is this is wonderful. People a Bloomberg are talking 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.200 about it. They're reading about a company that otherwise maybe 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.719 they hadn't and investors who got in in August of 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.920 two thousand and twenty that made an awful lot of money, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.800 including including the chairman. So I think he's been pretty 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.360 consistent that they're in it to win it. And if 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.640 you're on the micro Strategy bus at this point, you 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.280 know that you're you're staying with bitcoin. So the question 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.040 is how how do you get more of it? Perhaps UM? 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.959 Does that software business generate enough money that they can 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.440 continue to buy based on the cash that throws off? 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.640 Or is there some other way they've been creative and 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.080 how they've they've made some bitcoin acquisitions to date, is 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.960 there some other way that they haven't examined that that 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.440 they can get a little bit more in the coffers? Well, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.120 let's go back to the two other companies that you 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.280 mentioned as having disclosed bitcoin on their balance sheets around 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.360 the same time as micro Strategy, Right, so Tesla which 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:23.880 has been exiting it's bitcoin position, UM and Square now 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.960 known as block, which just from the name is like 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.880 really doubling down on their own crypto strategy. You know 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.720 they're investing in UM technology related to crypto mining, for example, 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.160 But have you seen kind of an uptick across the board, Like, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.719 are there many more than three companies now that are 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:47.120 disclosing these kinds of holdings. I have not, And you know, Tesla. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.160 Anything with Tesla obviously generates a lot of headlines. Um. There. One, 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.719 their initial one point five billion dollar acquisition of a 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.760 bitcoin is a lot of money to the three of us. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.480 But two, Tesla's business is it's a little bit of 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.520 an afterthought. Um And like you said, they have sort 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:03.880 of moved out of it. So I think there is 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.480 a question whether public companies are going to follow this 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.319 this this strategy that these three companies have embodied at 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.200 some point in the last couple of years. David, I 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.000 want to go back to something just about like Sailor himself. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:24.000 You know, he is still personally fabulously wealthy as a 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.040 as an individual, and it doesn't seem like recent events 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.560 have dented his faith in in bitcoin specifically, or the 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.440 perception that you know, many in the crypto and the 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.720 bitcoin community have that this is a person who really 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:44.080 knows what he's talking about. Are there other people, you know, 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:49.440 just in this kind of universe of like Sailor and Novograts, 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.200 Are there other people who you're observing trying to lead 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.280 their companies in kind of crypto friendly directions that we 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.400 know we should be having a follow up conversation with 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.240 Tom about like six to twelve months. Well, the crash 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.520 changed a lot of things, so he had a lot 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.360 of people who were kind of flirting with the idea, 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.960 and as Tom mentioned that, those those two companies and 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.600 maybe a handful of crypto minors that type of thing. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.720 But now with the collapse of the price, they're struggling 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.600 to just keep their head above water and stay in business. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.920 So the tone has really changed for everybody except for Sailor, 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.200 who hasn't deviated at all from his line. When Musk 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:37.120 sold the shares for tesla Um last quarter, he bit responses, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.480 you left with what I get after I sell this, 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:44.920 you're left with of bitcoin, and he hasn't deviated at all. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.400 So essentially, just to go back to Tom's earlier point, 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.240 even though this current quarter and perhaps the quartes have 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.840 come might look a little bit challenging from an accounting perspective, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.120 as far as Sailor is concerned, the fundamental bet was 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.760 the right one for micro strategy. Yeah, I mean, it 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.880 depends what you're looking at right, they've made roughly two 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.440 dozen purchases of bitcoin and what all but two or 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.640 three of them are underwater. Um, the overall bet itself 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.400 is is underwater by a billion dollars. So, um, it's 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.400 a question of time. Um, you know, maybe crypto goes 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.160 back up, maybe bitcoin goes back up, and suddenly that 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.240 looks like a great long term bet. So we're waiting 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.840 on on when that happens, I guess. And just to 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.200 kind of follow up on that point with the time made, 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.240 the Sailor himself has been quoted and and but believe 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.720 it even an interview with U with us that um, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.680 he had a tough choice to make. He knew his 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.440 company wasn't growing at the pace it should be, and 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.360 it was either do something different or die on it. 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.400 And he chose something different. Yeah, and that is that's 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.720 what CEO do. Write. Those are those a decisions they 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.360 try to make. We were very unfortunately not able to 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.480 get Sailor himself for this episode. His folks let us 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.680 know that he was traveling at the time that we 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.000 were recording it. But Michael Saylor, if you're listening to 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.920 this and you want to come on and and give 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.000 us your perspective on this story. We would happily have 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.440 you on the Crypto podcast. Well, thank you both for 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.040 being here. I really appreciate you taking the time in 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.959 the podcast. Tom, Dave a pleasure to have you. Thank you, Stacy. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.840 You can find more of their reporting on the Bloomberg 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.399 Terminal on Bloomberg dot com, or follow Dave Litka on Twitter. 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.119 He's at d l I E D T k A. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.560 As always, it was another busy week on the Crypto beats. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.359 Join me tomorrow as I call on two of Bloomberg's 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.960 senior editors for Crypto to break down what happened this week, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.440 what we're thinking about, and a little bit about what 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:58.359 we're reading. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.399 Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.760 Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.440 or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.480 questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.640 dot net or find us on Twitter. We're at Crypto. 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.280 The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky ver Galina. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.640 Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:28.359 Farouk and Sharon Barrero. Associate producer is Thy Butler gesta 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.960 wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrin. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.600 I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.