WEBVTT - The New York Football State of Mind 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.960 I'm Rett Lewis, and this is NFL in signed report. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.040 It's been a frustrating stretch of consistent losing for the 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.080 football franchises in the New York, New Jersey area, both 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:26.040 the Giants and Jets finishing with losing seasons once again, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.880 each a disappointing four and thirteen record this year. The 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.960 Jets playoff drought extends now to eleven seasons for the Giants, 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.200 five years without a postseason birth. And while the Jets 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.680 are building something with GM Joe Douglas and head coach 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.640 Robert Salo, the Giants are starting over for the third 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.159 time now since Tom Coughlin left the organization, g M 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.720 Dave Gentleman, retired head coach Joe Judge fire. But it 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.280 is a good news bad news sort of situation. You 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.000 now know the bad. Here's the bright side. Both teams 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.720 have a pair of top ten picks in this year's 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.080 draft to build with. So how they got here and 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.160 how they get it right moving forward are the questions 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.120 on today's podcast, as College Kim Jones, who expertly covers 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.840 both franchises for US, joins today. Okay, Kim, here we 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.800 are again with these New York Giants, and another blow 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.280 up of the football decision making machine with GM who 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.399 retired in Dave Gentleman, and just a couple of days later, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.040 the firing of head coach Joe Judge after two seasons, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.839 which has basically just been years of instability following Tom 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.200 Coughlin's departure from the New York Giants. How would you 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.440 describe how we found ourselves here once again with the Giants? 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.320 You ask it in a very good way, which doesn't 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.760 surprise me, rep but you ask it in a way 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.120 that like opens the door to almost everything, right, So 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.560 it opens the door for me to go back to 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.200 Pat Shermer's tenure and September of that year they were 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.320 going to play the Buffalo Bills. And I remember at 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.960 a press conference we you said, you know, in person 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.760 press conferences then, And I asked Pat Shermer what they 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.280 thought of Josh Allen. That was, of course, you know, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.560 um a time when when the Giants were still looking 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.920 for a quarterback, you know Eli you know, on on 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.160 the way out and everything else, and he said, we 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:22.320 thought he had a chance to be a starter. Well 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.800 that immediately became you know, billboard material and on every 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.919 message board in the Bills facility, and the Bills won 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.080 that game by a couple of touchdowns that September. But 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.359 the reason I bring that up, First of all, it's 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.440 topical with with the Bills and Josh Allen, right, But secondly, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.480 I think it shows that for a while now, the 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.639 New York Giants have needed some help when it comes 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.079 to talent evaluation, when it comes to roster building, when 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.840 it comes to being open minded about certain prospects, and listen, 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.239 you could argue we saw that again in this past 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.639 free agency. They signed Kenny Golladay seemingly um you know, betting, 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.799 you know, a bidding against only themselves, seventy million dollar contractors. 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.480 So he didn't score a touchdown this year, ratt, And 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.640 you know, they moved back. Dave had never moved back. 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.959 Someone in the room told me that Dave was bound 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.720 and determined to move back because Dave Gettleman never had 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.720 done that. He moved back where Shawn Slater was on 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.200 the board. Boy, that would have helped the offensive line scenario. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.839 But he moves back and he takes Cadarius Tony, who 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.760 also didn't score a touchdown during this his rookie season. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.280 So you know, when when you ask a question about 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.240 the Giants, now, Rett, it does go back to as 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.920 you noted, since Tom Coughlin, because it's been mistake after 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.520 mistake after mistake, and now they're in another GM search 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.880 that will be followed by a head coaching search, and 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.880 the GM will pick the head coach with of course 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.160 ownership's approval, but they've got a hope and maybe light 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.520 a candle rat that they finally get it right this time. Yeah, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:02.280 that's a great, great description of the frustration that has 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.320 certainly been mounting in New York. As we mentioned since 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.440 Tom Conflin's departure. Talent evaluation is obviously, you know, is 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.120 the biggest part. Picking the right head coach to develop 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.560 that talent is also a big part of that. UM. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.200 And when it comes to the man in charge of 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.279 the talent evaluation, UM, you know, we've gone. We've seen 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.400 you know, Jerry Reese has gone uh and now we 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.520 you know, we see Dave Dave Gettleman gone. It felt 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.960 like that was gonna happen one way or another. Is 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.320 that kind of why the Giants have moved so quickly, 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.919 so briskly with their GM interviews with the names that 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.080 they wanted and the interview I mean, the interviews were 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.800 coming in, you know, fast and furious. I know they're 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.680 they're virtual, so that kind of allowed some of that, right, right. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.479 The virtual nature of it allowed them to do multiple 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.160 interviews in a day, so they've been able to cycle 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.560 through those interviews fairly quickly, as you noted. Yeah, you know. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.400 I John Marraw was asked on the Zoom call he 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.320 did last week that I was on. Um, this was 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.760 not my question, but it was from another reporter about 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.040 why not let get Dave go sooner because then you 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.080 could have started on the interviews. Well, I thought it 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.440 was interesting. John Morris said, all of our candidates for 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.359 GM are currently working. Why did you let Dave Gentleman 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.680 retired instead of firing him later in the season to 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.320 get a head start on them. Well, it would not 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.400 necessarily have given me a head start. The only people 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.039 I would have been allowed to speak to would be 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.080 people who are on the street right now. And you know, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.200 quite frankly, my our top candidates are people that who 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:27.920 are all employed right now, So it really would not 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.480 have given us any advantage. And um, I didn't see 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.560 any any need to do that earlier than when he 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.520 announced his retirement, So it's not as if they could 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.880 have gotten ahead. So right there gave you a bit 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.400 of a tell that the New York Giants are trying 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.720 to look forward, are trying to perhaps find some new ideas, 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.599 you know, a certainly a new leader as GM, and 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.119 they're trying to be I think, open minded and looking 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.200 at the guys who truly have had success in the 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.640 really near future, because the Giants understand that when you 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.719 all has reached to the past, it certainly doesn't always 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.400 work out. I think that's a great point because obviously 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.600 Dave Gettleman had history in New York and you know, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.039 had built winners in his tenures as a GM in Carolina. Um, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:14.839 you know clearly, you know, going to the Super Bowl, 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.120 you know, a few years back. And does it feel 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.520 like this will be a departure from what has been 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.359 the norm for the Giants ownership group? Is that? Is 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.160 that what you've seen in some of the names that 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.719 have been interviewing for the GM position. Yes, because for 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.080 one thing, not one of them is an inside candidate. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.039 And could that be completely unfair to someone in that 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.680 facility who you know, has the makings of a great 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.960 GM probably, but you know that person, whoever he may be, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.039 UM has Dave geentleman, But thanks for that. This was 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.719 a disaster. It was an absolute disaster. Nineteen wins in 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.040 four years. Lots have told just those to the media 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.320 that panned out exactly the opposite way. UM, just again 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.120 reaching for for certain players, discounting other players for reasons 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.400 that are you know, anyone's gas? Um, it was just 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.919 a very much like by the seat of your pants 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.080 operation and read. While there's probably some charm in that, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.320 and sometimes those become storybooks that it doesn't work really 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:17.080 in today's NFL, when so many organizations are are miles 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.440 and miles ahead of of an operation that's doing it 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.920 sort of the old fashioned way. See today that the 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.880 Giants are conducting a second interview with Bill's assistant GM. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.400 Joe Shane seems to be a popular name out there. Um, 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.560 is is there a reason for that? Do do you 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.520 feel like the Giants are looking at the model? You know, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.080 even going back to your Pat Shermer comments about Josh 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.119 Allen seeing the success and the way they've built that franchise. Yeah, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.960 and listen, you know Josh Allen said the other day, Um, 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.800 you know it's all right in front of us here, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.080 and who knows how long we're all going to be 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.000 together again. I'm sitting there in the third fourth quarter, 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.000 and just like you know, Stable and Leslie, I know 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.560 that they've got some opportunities coming up here right now, 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.600 and um, thanks to be different. It's it's an opportunity 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.800 right in front of us right now. So, um, we're 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.640 gonna bet everybody going forward, guys pulling in one one direction, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.680 and we gotta put together a good a good game 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.520 plan and have a really good week of preparation and 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.600 go out there and try to expert again. You know, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.400 I think a lot of us thought that Brian day 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.000 Ball might get a head coaching job last year. It 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.440 didn't work out, in part because you know, the Bills 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.520 kind of sort of played too long, you know, for 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.360 for maybe some folks to wait this time around, I 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.320 have to think, you look at what Brian day Ball 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.840 has done, and you have to be wild by it. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.920 And if you can bring someone you know with him, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.280 or or he can bring someone with with him. In 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.720 the terms of Shane actually making it being the first 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.000 higher conceivably and then bringing day Ball along, I mean 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.959 I think that that is one two moves UH day 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.360 Ball in particular though, because we see what he does 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.840 every Sunday, right, So I think that that would be 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:57.280 a move very much applauded UH. And even if the 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.679 fans are a little cautious to buy in, I do 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.160 think they could buy into that kind of an arrangement. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.480 And that doesn't discount the other candidates. I think there's 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.160 some other really good candidates as well. And so as 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.520 we're talking about priorities here for the Giants with this 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.040 new GM, who then will hire this new head coach? 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.920 I imagine it will be some sort of collaborative decision 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.320 on what to do with two very high profile draft 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.480 picks of the Dave Gentleman era, of course, se Kuon 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.640 Barkley number two overall pick a couple of years ago 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.959 at running back, and then Daniel Jones following year number 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:31.200 six overall at quarterback. How do you feel those decisions 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.400 will come to be for this franchise. I think it's 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.200 a fascinating scenario right with both players for different reasons. 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.960 You know, um John Mara did make clear that the 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.120 GM and head coach will make those determinations on u 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.600 K's future immediate future with the Giants as well as 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.160 Daniel Jones is um will the will the new general 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.920 manager of full authority to hire whichever head coach he 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.040 wants without any stay from you and will you have 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.360 full authority to you whatever you want to Daniel Jones 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.959 without any to say for you. He he will lead 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.040 to the general that he will lead the search for 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.559 a head coach. But those decisions always are subject to 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.360 final approval by ownership. Um. You know in terms of 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.640 Daniel or say Kwan or anyone else you want to 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.360 ask me, that's going to be between the general manager 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.920 and the head coach. Listen With Daniel Jones, I think 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:26.400 it's actually more complicated. He's a player who can wow you. Um. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.120 He can also confound you time and time again between 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.520 the wows. Frankly, Um, he doesn't play every game of 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.960 every season. That is his history now at this point. Um, 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:37.440 you know you've got to be on the field to 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:42.679 make an impact. UM. And I do think with Daniel, Um, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.800 I've thought this since the beginning. Ret So I might 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:46.319 have said it to you in the past, or I 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.800 know I've said it in the past. You know, there's 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.520 a pocket presence awareness there that you know, I think 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.520 we've like really yet to see and it ended the 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.160 seen NFL folks about that, you know, And I know 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.160 fans like react when I say this, but they're truly 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.160 torn on whether you can learn that you know, to 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.439 some degree either have it or you don't. Now, can 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.080 you learn and get better at almost everything? Yes? And 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.640 I'd be hypocritical not to not to agree with that, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.160 because when I started, you know, in TV in particular, 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.640 all this horrendous. So and maybe there have been some 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:22.240 baby steps along the ways, I wonder, um, you know, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.280 so for Daniel, I think there's some fundamental questions there. Uh, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.200 certainly you would have to believe the quote unquote backup 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.319 quarterback for the Giants will have to be a competitor, right, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.080 someone who they say, you know, we're not handing this 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.960 job to anyone. And then take Kuan is on the 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.280 books for the fifth year option I think at seven 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.480 point two million, which is less than he made this 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.040 past season. That's our rookie contracts, you know, work that 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.559 and this one does. Um. I've said this since about 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.000 mid season, Rhett, I don't think we saw Sake Juan 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.920 healthy except for that New Orleans game. This year when 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.360 he had a great game and the next next week 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.960 he stepped on the foot of how Boys player Jordan 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:05.920 Lewis in an incredibly unlucky, you know, great deal, exact 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.720 thank you, and UM never has been the same. UM. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.240 And I say that with pretty much with authority that 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.719 I think next year he will come back much healthier 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.800 and much readier to you know, more equipped to help 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:24.560 carry this offense. UM, I would think a GM would 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.720 would stick with stake one for the year. Obviously, I 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.320 don't think there would be an extension forthcoming by any means, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:35.360 But to me, say, kwe probably makes makes sense. I 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.200 think Daniel mostly does too. But certainly you want other 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.439 players there for depth, particularly at the backup quarterback spot. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.239 How do we get here from a head coaching perspective, 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.240 because it sounded like, you know, like, while Joe Judge 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.440 has certainly had his missteps in his first two years, 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:54.720 they were, you know, somewhat surprisingly almost a playoff team 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:56.840 a year ago in his first year. Right as as 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.040 crazy as that sounded, with the record that they had, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.480 that was the state of the NFC East. UM and 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.240 then you know, gosh, there was just there didn't seem 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.000 to be all this momentum towards a change until you 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.240 know what these last few weeks, is that kind of 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.200 what you've been I mean the eleven minute address that 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.360 changed the Giants world, it was do you feel like 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:25.480 that had a big dent? Listen Joe Judge. In that 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.240 address for those maybe not as familiar with it, he 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.199 talked about how former players still reach out to him, saying, boy, 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.680 you know, coach, I wish I were still a Giant. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.440 I said, we got more players here who are free 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.600 agents next year, all right, who're in my office every 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.680 day begging to come back. I know that, Okay, I 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.640 know that players that we coach last year they still 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.240 call me twice a week talking about, you know, how 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:48.800 much they wish they were still here and they're getting 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.720 paid more somewhere else. That's only a couple of players, right, 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.040 because Joe Judge hasn't been a head coach for a 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.679 really long time. So if he was trying to out 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.959 Dalvin Tomlinson who signed with the Vikings and free agents 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.199 see or Kevin Zeitler who went to the Ravens, and 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.280 it's a really good offensive lineman by the way through 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.720 the Giants cut, I mean I'm not convinced those two 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.280 guys were reaching out to Joe Judge, by the way, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.080 but they're like two of the only ones who could 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.240 possibly have been on that list that Joe was so 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.079 proud of. You know, I had a lot of hope 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.960 for Joe. I like Joe, which doesn't really matter, um, 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:25.600 but uh here it wasn't meltdown scenario rat um, and 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:31.120 it was public, you know, and behind closed doors. You 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.720 know that that may have been something we never heard 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:35.960 of or we only heard you know, oh, you know, 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.680 their emotions are high at the Giants. He did it 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.600 to the media, you know, he would have been better 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.400 off saving it for inside and showing creation that way, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.520 and maybe he'd still be head coach of the Giants 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.480 right now. But um, you know, I also thought when 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.920 he took on the Washington football team saying, you know, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.480 our guys aren't punching each other. Well, two things about that. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.160 Number One, as Ron Rivera noted, you know, Washington had 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.760 a a really devastating stretch to end the season in 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.400 terms of the personal lives of some of their players, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.560 which was just obviously tragic. And you know, Ron Rivera 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.160 also like didn't really deserve to have to, you know, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.280 justify himself to a guy who in training camp the 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.160 New York Giants had that brawl, right of course, we 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.360 had a brawl where Daniel Jones was on the bottom 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.920 of a pile. Like football is an emotional game, whether 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.320 it's on the sidelines, whether it's brother to brother, as 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.520 players would tell you that you know they're brothers on 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.280 these teams, or or whether it's um, you know, an opponent. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.960 I mean, you know, emotions run high. So I do 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.280 think those eleven minutes are the reason that we are 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.280 talking at least about part of this. They were going 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.360 to have to wear a GM regardless, but I think 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.800 John Mara came to the conclusion that asking a new 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.360 GM for whom there will be a lot of high 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.440 hopes and a lot of power given, if you will, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.040 asking him to then take on this head coach was 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.040 just too much. It's a great way to put it. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.480 And then lastly, here just just from an ownership uh perspective, 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.120 with Steve tissue John Mara and the frustration and the 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.400 embarrassment that we've heard now what three times three separate 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.080 times since the I mean it's certainly been more times 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.400 than that, but you know, based on games and performance, 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.920 but just on the blowing up of a of a 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.480 head coach GM sort of situation. Again, UM, in your 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.120 time covering this team, like, is this is this rock bottom? 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.800 Has this? We are we here? Well? John Mara actually 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.120 answered that for us the other day when he said 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.760 this is the most embarrassed he's been. Hey, Joe, curious, 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.400 is this your lowest moment in your associated station with 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.520 the Giants? And is this is this embarrassed that you've 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:45.640 been about the franchise. Honestly, I would have to say, yes, yes, 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.960 it is. Um. I kept thinking during the season that 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.400 we had hit rock bottom and then each week had 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.720 got a little worse. So honestly, I'm not proud of 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.240 saying this, but if I'm gonna be honest, I would 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.080 have to say that into a yes. Now, obviously there's 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.359 a recentcy bias to that, truly, but I have to 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.920 believe nineteen wins in four years, UM in this NFL, 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.399 UM would would definitely rank Like. It's not like when 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.760 John said that, I said, I thought to myself, Oh, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.080 come on, John, let's talk about these other three things. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.080 You know, I kind of like, I think I probably 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.040 nodded because I think it's you know, it's understandable, and 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.359 it just never got better. And the one thing that 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.159 John said, John Marras said on that call was he 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.960 kept thinking like this is rock bottom, he said, and 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.320 then every week it got worse, meaning the performance on 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.119 the field, um, and obviously the way he felt about it, 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.720 and a couple of things briefly about that htt you know, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.560 Joe Judge wanted Mike Glennon to be his backup quarterback. 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.280 They had Colt McCoy last season. They beat Seattle with 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.600 Colt McCoy. It was Joe Judge who wanted Mike Glennon, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.480 the big armed Mike Glennon, to be the backup this year. 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.920 That's a decision he obviously paid for. In November, after 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.680 losing to the Bucks, he fired Jason Garrett, who, um, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.960 I think everyone agrees is a is a really good guy, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.119 uh and a nice guy and certainly has ties to 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.040 the Giants organization. It got no better, by the way 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:13.280 without Jason Garrett, literally no better exactly. And you know, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.119 I just think that when John looks at something, looked 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:20.359 at some of those things, he truly couldn't risk putting 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.760 up with it for even another year or you know, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.800 possibly part of a year, and then you really have 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.919 a disaster on your hands. So it's a fresh start 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.959 that I'm sure that they're hoping, uh, you know, reigns 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.800 a little bit of optimism in the Inn East Rutherford 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.879 and at the Giants facility. Fresh start I mean literally 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.919 starting from scratch, which of course is where the New 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.680 York Jets have been in the last year or two 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.959 as well. But it does feel like they are at 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.800 least trending in a more positive direction based on the 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.560 play of their number two overall pick, Zach Wilson at 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.879 quarterback a year ago, and now armed with a pair 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.760 of first round top ten picks themselves, the direction of 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:14.479 the Jets when we come back al right back here 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.080 on NFL Inside Report, are Kim Jones still here with 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.640 us as we shift from the Giants to the Jets. 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.040 Similarly disappointing, but for different reasons for this New York 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.360 Jets franchise. They're at the beginning of what seems like 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.160 a steady build, a steady climb for GM Joe Douglas 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.320 and now going into his second year's head coach and 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.479 Robert Salom how would you describe the progress that you 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.120 saw from this Jets team, particularly down the stretch where 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.520 it felt like there were some moments to build on. Kim, Yeah, 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.840 I think you just put that really well, Red, because 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:51.040 I the progress seemed slow, right, It seems slow, And 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.360 if you want to say slow and steady, I would 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.159 mostly agree with that if you go back to the 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.720 beginning of the season. But if you go to say, 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.480 I don't know, Thanksgiving ish one, I think that there 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.680 was more progress. And you saw Zack Wilson, you do 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.159 not throw an interception, and I believe five games his 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.160 last five games. So you look at that and you say, well, 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.320 the better judgment better neck up right, and probably better 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.840 neck down too, in terms of fundamentals and and choices 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.320 that he's making in the moment and that sort of thing. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.960 So you would certainly rather have that than the opposite. Right, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.320 kid comes out on fire and in September people are 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.680 saying he's Rookie of the Year, and then he continues 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.359 to faith faith faith. He did literally the opposite. I 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.960 think what people very concerned about him early on, hence 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.280 Mike White, you know, and that kind of thing, and 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.159 he battled a little bit of an injury and he 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.560 came back from that. But I think the quarterback in 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.119 particular gives them hope. And I also think for the Jets, listen, 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:52.879 they still have a lot of um salary cap money 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:57.359 at their disposal. They can start. Yes, we will certainly 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.280 hope that Karl Lawson, who was lost in that you 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.080 know training, can't practice in Green Bay with the torn achilles. 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.679 They will certainly hope he comes back and and the 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.560 big one And this might be a separate question, and 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:09.560 if it is, I'm all for it. You know, this 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.840