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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirelli, chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg Television and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, and there's never enough time on the show,

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Speaker 1: which is why I'm so glad that we have the

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Speaker 1: sound on extra, which you can download on a host

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Speaker 1: of our different platforms. Joining me for the hour on

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Speaker 1: the show is Emily Miller. She's a Republican strategist, former

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Speaker 1: communications director for the House Majority Whip and one of

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Speaker 1: the chief strategists for the Senator Ted Cruz's reelect campaign

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Speaker 1: in Texas, relocated to Texas, went missing from Washington for

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Speaker 1: a lot of good food down in Texas. And then

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Speaker 1: Josh Glper, he's co founder and partner of the public

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Speaker 1: relations firm Tried DMG and the law firm Davis, Goldberg

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Speaker 1: and Gallper, a Democratic strategist as well. All Right, what

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do is have a debate between

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Speaker 1: on abortion. I don't want to moderate a debate on abortion.

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Speaker 1: But I do want to understand is why we as

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Speaker 1: a country every now and then have these incredibly divisive, polarizing,

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Speaker 1: grueling debates over the abortion issue. And it has really

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Speaker 1: really resurfaced them in the past a couple of days

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Speaker 1: because of what's going on in Alabama as well as

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Speaker 1: other states. So why all of a sudden has this

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Speaker 1: just it's never gone away for those of us who

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Speaker 1: probably would refer to as the Christian right, um, evangelical Christians,

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Speaker 1: it's never gone away. The goal has always been to

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Speaker 1: make sure that every child has a chance to live

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Speaker 1: and doesn't get killed in the womb. And why this week,

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Speaker 1: why this week is suddenly everybody talking about it? Well,

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Speaker 1: my former boss, um Tom Delay, he's been leading this

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Speaker 1: heartbeat bill that you've seen go around and about these

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Speaker 1: states been the heart It's called the heartbeat bill, meaning

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Speaker 1: you can't have an abortion once a heartbeat is detected.

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Speaker 1: He tried to get it passed in the House just

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Speaker 1: last year. He's a lobbyist for this organization and he's

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Speaker 1: biled lobbying forms for this um. He they are going

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Speaker 1: to state to state. This organization has been going to

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Speaker 1: state to state to try to get this heartbeat bill

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Speaker 1: past on the state level because I can't get it

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Speaker 1: past on the federal level. Josh yeah. So here's the

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Speaker 1: thing I do. Your your pro choice. I am pro choice,

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Speaker 1: I am, and I have no doubt that those who

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Speaker 1: are pro life are deeply felt in their beliefs on it.

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Speaker 1: And that is why, for instance, Delay is pushing this

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Speaker 1: initiative UM and why we see these bills come up

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Speaker 1: in Georgia and Alabama. But the but the thing to

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Speaker 1: realize is that we've got a presidential election coming up

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Speaker 1: in UM. These sorts of bills helped to bring together

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Speaker 1: people who mayry not support the President UH in a turnout,

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Speaker 1: you know, for an election. So you're about increasing turnout

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Speaker 1: on social issues if you don't have other issues to

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Speaker 1: push at the national level. Coming back to social issues

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Speaker 1: is a very effective, important magnet to bring people together,

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Speaker 1: and that's how you get more people to come out

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Speaker 1: and vote for say President Trump and others in when

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Speaker 1: he's got really a very small, hardened base that he's

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Speaker 1: very having a very difficult time enlarging, especially when you

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Speaker 1: look at matchups against Biden and other top Democrats. Josh

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Speaker 1: is right that the President Bush and sorry present Bush

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Speaker 1: says my era UM President Trump UM wants is going

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Speaker 1: to need evangelical turnout and that's what put him over

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Speaker 1: the over the top four years ago, three years, three

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Speaker 1: years Yeah, but I just but he so he this

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Speaker 1: is helpful for the Publican party as a whole, because

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Speaker 1: it will increase turnout because everyone knows it's going to

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. One of these cases, and one of

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Speaker 1: these dates going to court will pick up when the

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Speaker 1: Conservatives on the Supreme Court know they have the vote

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Speaker 1: to overturn Brovy weight. And that's to be clear. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are Republican strategists, as you know, both of you know,

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Speaker 1: who would say, well, hey, wait a minute, you need

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Speaker 1: suburban districts, you need to have that more moderate Kevin

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Speaker 1: McCarthy came out and said that he thought that these

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Speaker 1: cases went too far, he of course, as the minority

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Speaker 1: leader in the House of Representatives. But this is what

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Speaker 1: I just find fascinating, and this is what I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: from to top level political strategists in both respective camps,

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Speaker 1: which is that this is about turnout. This is about

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Speaker 1: activating the base the activists in both of your respective parties.

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Speaker 1: But I think what is just really interesting is that

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Speaker 1: if you're a teenager, if you're someone who is not

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Speaker 1: as plugged in as we are to these issues, it's

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Speaker 1: fascinating to see how the political rhetoric impacts cultural rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: And this is where I want to go even deeper

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Speaker 1: with you behind the scenes because you am criss cross

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Speaker 1: Texas and Senator Cruizes campaign re elect campaign and you

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Speaker 1: won against Better or Rourke. What was the calculation Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, take us to a moment without you know,

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Speaker 1: going you know or going against confidentiality in terms of

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Speaker 1: private conversations with the Center. But it's a moment that

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Speaker 1: you really thought illustrated. Maybe we're on the campaign bus.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a moment that's coming to your mind.

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Speaker 1: Tell us describe this moment when you were with Senator

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Speaker 1: Cruz and he likes he likes a political fight. He

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Speaker 1: likes a political but where he watched something of a

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Speaker 1: Rourke and he thought, oh my gosh, I gotta get

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Speaker 1: out the political boxing gloves because this race is on. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll say then this is I'm not sayingthing he said

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Speaker 1: because it's what I said. We we drove around at

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Speaker 1: a pickup truck, um four of us all year, um,

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Speaker 1: A lot of fast food drive throughs and best By.

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Speaker 1: I'm such a fast food drink, Oh my gosh. And

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Speaker 1: the water Burgers that's where came from. He would never

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Speaker 1: go to McDonald's. Really, why Texas Company? Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love McDonald's. Anyway. Oh, I will tell you one thing,

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Speaker 1: a little story about him. When we were we did

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Speaker 1: go to McDonald's, got out of the truck. We're sick

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Speaker 1: of towards the end of the campaign, sick of sitting.

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Speaker 1: And we got McDonald's and we're standing in line and

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Speaker 1: he's standing in line with everybody else, and this man

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Speaker 1: who fund him turns behind him and he go is, hey,

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Speaker 1: aren't you the governor of Texas? And Ted, to his credit,

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Speaker 1: was like, well, no, I'm all right. So the moment

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Speaker 1: of you you're on the truck or whatever, and then

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Speaker 1: you've realized this is a close race. Well, I we

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Speaker 1: knew it was a close race. I mean, our internal

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Speaker 1: polls were showing us was a close race. We knew

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Speaker 1: this going in. We lost early voting. M I said,

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Speaker 1: I said, you know what's so frustrating Ted, is this

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Speaker 1: guy he's so bad. He's so he has no policies,

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Speaker 1: he has no accomplishments. He's just a bad politician. And

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Speaker 1: Ted turns around in the front seat. This is not

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Speaker 1: I mean, he'd say this himself speaking on school and no,

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Speaker 1: he's really good. He's really good. And I've talked. They

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Speaker 1: had talked privately, and he got out of it that

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Speaker 1: he goes he knows exactly what he's doing. Never underestimate him.

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Speaker 1: He knows exactly what he's doing. Wow. That decided cruise

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Speaker 1: and I have never ever seen. Wow. Uh, that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: That's what you guys were on. Yeah. I really sat

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Speaker 1: back in my seat and thought for a while because

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Speaker 1: it really through me because I I obviously it underestimated

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Speaker 1: him up to that point. So we need more of

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Speaker 1: that display of respect in our politics and for people

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Speaker 1: to say that none side conversations, but in public. And

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Speaker 1: I think that there are generational differences where we just

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Speaker 1: don't hear enough of that. Yeah. All right, so you've

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Speaker 1: worked for some some folks. He's coming to mind on

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Speaker 1: a moment. What were you thinking about when when she

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Speaker 1: was telling that story? Take us behind the scenes to

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Speaker 1: your career. Yeah, well, first of all, I wasn't sure

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Speaker 1: what to expect. But but that's that's a great moment.

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Speaker 1: But look, I think that I come from the Midwest

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Speaker 1: originally have worked for people who I think are mostly

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Speaker 1: centrist and believe in a time, you know here in

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Speaker 1: Washington where you could bring both ends of you know,

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Speaker 1: of the of the parties together work within the forty

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Speaker 1: yard lines, so to speak. That time is really passed

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Speaker 1: at this point. I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who think that moderates don't stand for anything, and

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Speaker 1: that that's a big problem. And I think one of

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Speaker 1: the symptoms of people's views of that for instances social media,

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Speaker 1: the media world that we live in, where everything is

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Speaker 1: so polarized. We're buffeted by messages all day long where

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Speaker 1: we're in our silo listening to the echo chamber of

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Speaker 1: people who are in our feed who probably think like

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Speaker 1: us or or you know, are looking what we say

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Speaker 1: and want to think like what we're saying is are

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Speaker 1: the thoughts that they want to adopt. And it's terrible

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Speaker 1: and I think it's really important to put down those

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Speaker 1: apps and times, just read the paper, read widely, and

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Speaker 1: make sure that you're getting messages from different people that

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Speaker 1: that are diverse, they're varied, and you can sort of

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Speaker 1: go from there and make your own decision instead of

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Speaker 1: taking in all of this incoming that turns into what

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Speaker 1: side are you want? All right, Josh and V. That

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Speaker 1: was good. Thanks for listening to the sound on extra

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Speaker 1: Emily Miller, Republican strategist, Josh Gouper, Democratic strategists to d

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Speaker 1: C insiders, I'm Kevin's really chief Washington, d C correspondent

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg TV. Thank you. Yeah, you've turned into one

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Speaker 1: care what you wished for. Thanks guys,