1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Cashual Friday, and

3
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 1: welcome to our behind the scenes minis. I'm Holly Fry.

4
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy T. Wilson. Tracy. The first thing we talked

5
00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 1: about this week was the Anglos Anzobar War. Here is

6
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 1: a true confession. I did not realize prior to working

7
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: on this, how much overlap there was between Arabic and

8
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 1: uh Zanzibari and in fact African culture further south than

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: I would have thought, like, I didn't realize that. I mean,

10
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: there are still think pieces being written today about how

11
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: Zanzibar's culture continues to be infused, you know, with the

12
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: cultural um kind of migration that happened with the Omani occupation.

13
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: And so it's just one of those things that in

14
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: my head, I think I had kind of partitioned off,

15
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 1: like the Arabian Peninsula and then Africa as two separate things,

16
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 1: and I really didn't think about how much they obviously

17
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: would have crossed over and commingled. And in fact, you know,

18
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,320
Speaker 1: in many cases because of of these occupations, families formed

19
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 1: that we were inclusive people from both of those cultures,

20
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: and then you know, went on to shift the makeup

21
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: of the people's that lived there. Yeah. I was completely

22
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: ignorant to all that. So yeah, this is the more

23
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 1: you know moment in my life. What led you to

24
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: picking this particular episode? Um, I really really like looking

25
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 1: a little bit more deeply at things that are often

26
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 1: reported in those I talked about it in the episode,

27
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 1: like this appears on a list of like nutty moments

28
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 1: in his brain, and it's like that was people's lives.

29
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: And I bet they didn't think it was nutty or hysterical,

30
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There was a lot going

31
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,559
Speaker 1: on there that we tend when we do things like that,

32
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: like make lists like that to gloss over, and it

33
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,239
Speaker 1: gets easy to forget how important these moments are to

34
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: actual humans, you know, in the contemporary setting. Yeah. Yeah,

35
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: I look at those lists sometimes when I'm having when

36
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,959
Speaker 1: I'm struggling to pick an idea, sometimes I'll go find

37
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,480
Speaker 1: some like cookie incidents in history list, um and see

38
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 1: if there's something there that resonates, because like, sometimes those

39
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,240
Speaker 1: lists to have interesting topics I might not have stumbled

40
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 1: across myself, but at the same time, they are very

41
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 1: glossed over. Yeah, I mean That's the thing, right, is

42
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 1: that that there are often very interesting events that get

43
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,920
Speaker 1: included on those lists, but they're not really treated with

44
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: a lot of depth, which is kind of just the

45
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,200
Speaker 1: nature of the beast. I'm not trying to dog any

46
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: site that does those or it's just you can't really

47
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,959
Speaker 1: convey the nuance. And like in the case of of this,

48
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 1: you see that it would a couple of hundred years

49
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 1: of like lead up and this battle over slave trade

50
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 1: and cultures trying to manipulate one another in different ways

51
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: that lead to that moment that seems sort of silly

52
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 1: if you only look at it outside of context, when

53
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,400
Speaker 1: you realize like there were you know, familial issues among

54
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: the Ommani rulers and the Sultan's lineage which was not

55
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 1: necessarily inherited the way we would think of in in

56
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: the case of like a European royal house. And so

57
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 1: that's why there were these contests for power at times

58
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: in that side, as well as you know, the British

59
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 1: trying to manipulate who was going into power. It's just

60
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: a much a much more um detailed and I don't

61
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: want to say nuanced again, but there are a lot

62
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 1: of moving parts there that don't really get accommodated in

63
00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 1: aalistical Yeah. Well, and there's also the aspect that you

64
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: brought up that I had not really thought about the

65
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 1: British efforts to end the slave trade being rooted in

66
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 1: an attempt to destabilize everything. Like, on its surface, that

67
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 1: seems like a noble thing to be like, we're gonna

68
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: we want to end your involvement in the slave trade,

69
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: but having as an underlying motivator of that being like,

70
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: because your culture will fall apart financially, Yeah, we can

71
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: get a better foothold here if we force you to

72
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 1: do this. Yeah, it would have been way more noble

73
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 1: if they were like, hey, we really need to abolish

74
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: the slave trade. We understand your economy is largely based

75
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: around it. Here's how we could shift. They don't ever

76
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 1: introduce any of that. It's just no, no. And now

77
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 1: also you will have to pay taxes as a protectorate. Uh.

78
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,160
Speaker 1: It starts to pretty quickly look like, oh, this may

79
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: have been noble for some of the people involved that

80
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 1: we're pushing for this abolition, but ultimately it was also

81
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,039
Speaker 1: a power grab. Yeah. That it's like the opposite of

82
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:06,359
Speaker 1: what we talked about with Paul Cuffey attempting to establish

83
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 1: like other industries in places that had just been destroyed

84
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,839
Speaker 1: by the slave trade, to try to transfer people to

85
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 1: a different economic Yeah, there was none of that going on.

86
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 1: The other thing that's sort of heartbreaking when I look

87
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: at this, because you and I both, when we're looking

88
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,360
Speaker 1: at at a conflict like that, are in a at

89
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:37,159
Speaker 1: some sort of power struggle where multiple countries or states

90
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 1: are kind of all jockeying to have power over one

91
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,359
Speaker 1: particular place. We try to look at all of the

92
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 1: people's involved perspectives. But the trick with this one is

93
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 1: that there are certainly a lot of of history on

94
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: this written from the British perspective, and we have those

95
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,760
Speaker 1: treaties that that Britain and Germany and France participated in

96
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 1: as well as oman Um, and we the journals of

97
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 1: for example, like Basil Cave are often referenced to describe

98
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,280
Speaker 1: what went on, and then there are Arabic scholars who

99
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 1: will talk about the history from that perspective. But what

100
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 1: really really really gets lost is the perspective of the

101
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,279
Speaker 1: people's that were descendants of the Bantu people's that went

102
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 1: to Zanzibar. Settled it permanently. We don't really have a

103
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: whole lot of information on what they thought of essentially

104
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:40,479
Speaker 1: being set aside as like a figureheady unimportant, you know,

105
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 1: fairly powerless. Oh yes, yes, you still have your kings

106
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: and queens, but they can't actually do anything. They were

107
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 1: still respected culturally, but they didn't really have much power. Uh,

108
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: and so we lose that whole part of this piece

109
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: of history because they kind of just got bulldozed. Sorry

110
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,919
Speaker 1: to be a bummer. Well, uh, the other episode we

111
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 1: did this week, uh, less of a bummer, I think

112
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 1: because it was the All American Girls professional baseball team, UM,

113
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 1: which means we can talk about a league of their own. Yeah,

114
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 1: so we referenced Brittany Delacrta's UM article on the hidden

115
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 1: Queer history of a League of their Own, which is

116
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,680
Speaker 1: very worthwhile reading a lot of research, a lot of

117
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: it with player obituaries, because a lot of the players

118
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 1: are no longer living. Um. A lot of the players

119
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: who are still living, a lot of them didn't want

120
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: to talk to her on record because like the a

121
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: lot of folks that are like grew up in the

122
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 1: forties and fifties are not really out today or are

123
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: not as visibly out as a lot of people are today.

124
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 1: So like, there were a lot of not a lot

125
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,679
Speaker 1: of people that wanted to talk to her on record.

126
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 1: People did speak fondly about the movie, including like women

127
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 1: who are out as lesbians today, who like think of

128
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 1: a League of their own very only as a film.

129
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 1: And one of the points that was made was like

130
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 1: the league existed in the time that it existed, in

131
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 1: a league of their own existed, like that was made

132
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 1: is a filter as a feature film, um, Like, so

133
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 1: that existed in the time that it was and so

134
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 1: it makes sense, um that there's not like a lesbian

135
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: presence in the movie. And as I was reading the article,

136
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: I was like, wasn't there though, because I always interpreted

137
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 1: little Sister Kit as like the lesbian kids sister and

138
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: so I went and rewatched a League of their Own

139
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: while I was like working my way all through this,

140
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 1: and I realized I just mentally edited out, uh, the

141
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 1: entire before and after framework of the story, which is

142
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,439
Speaker 1: like involves her being married to a man and having

143
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,839
Speaker 1: a lot of children, um and grandchildren. And I think

144
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 1: the problem was that um, I saw even though it

145
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 1: came out before I saw a league of their own

146
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 1: after having seen Tank Girl. So I think my perception

147
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: my crush on Marie Patty. I mean she's darling, I

148
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 1: get it. Uh oh, I love her in that movie.

149
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,679
Speaker 1: Um yeah, legither And is very popular at our house.

150
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: I haven't watched it in a while, but Brian does

151
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: quote it a lot. The one thing I also love

152
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 1: that's an offshoot of it is seeing people at pop

153
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 1: culture conventions like Dragon Connor comic cons in Rockford peaches uniforms,

154
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,679
Speaker 1: which is the keyest stuff you could ever see on

155
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,240
Speaker 1: the planet. It's adorable. Um. There's also a reboot of

156
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: that coming to one of the streaming services I don't

157
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 1: remember which. I also wanted to take a minute talk about. Um.

158
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 1: Like we've we mentioned in the show that today it

159
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:54,280
Speaker 1: is still a stereotype about women in sports being lesbians,

160
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 1: and of course that is a stereotype, but also there

161
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 1: are lesbians Like in my lifetime. We have gone from

162
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,719
Speaker 1: Billy Jeane King being outed against her will in one

163
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: and it being an enormous scandal and her losing contracts

164
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,319
Speaker 1: and like she was later into her career at that point,

165
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 1: but still it was like damaging to her career. Hugely

166
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 1: in my lifetime. We have gone from that to Megan

167
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: Rappino doing a cameo on the L word generation cue.

168
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:36,320
Speaker 1: That is such a colossal evolution of women in sports,

169
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 1: women athletes, uh, the perceptions of women in athletes, and

170
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 1: specifically the perception of like lesbians as athletes, which I

171
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: find really moving and profound. It is, I mean, I

172
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: I it's one of those things where it's like, we

173
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,559
Speaker 1: still have so far to go in so many ways,

174
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 1: but when you point that out, it's it is. It's

175
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 1: very moving. It's like we're making progress. I know it's

176
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: not as much progress as we need, but it's good.

177
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 1: I feel compelled to also mention that I cried in

178
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: the weirdest point imaginable in this episode and had to stop.

179
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: This is embarrassing, but I don't think it would surprise

180
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: really anybody that knows me, which is that I had

181
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: a very hard time talking about a league of their

182
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: own because I had to mention Penny Marshall, who I love,

183
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 1: and so we weep to think about her not being

184
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: with us. I'm doing it now, and then I think

185
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,520
Speaker 1: about Carrie Fisher because they were best friends, and then

186
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:37,839
Speaker 1: I m having just rewatched that movie literally a week ago.

187
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 1: I my personal opinion is I feel like it really

188
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 1: holds up. I very much enjoyed watching it. At that

189
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: point it was on Showtime. But when I tried to

190
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,600
Speaker 1: find it again on the Showtime app, my, you know,

191
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 1: Roku was asking me if I wanted to rent it,

192
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, but but it was just on Showtime,

193
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,559
Speaker 1: so they or may not be on Showtime right now anyway. Uh.

194
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 1: That is mostly behind the scenes about a league of

195
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: their own. Anyway, I had a good time researching that episode.

196
00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad that after just a lot of trying to

197
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: figure out what I was going to talk about on

198
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 1: the show next, that I eventually arrived at that one

199
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 1: because it was a lot of fun to research. Yeah,

200
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 1: it kind of gave us a weird one two punch

201
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 1: of the week a little bit. Yeah, there's a lot

202
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 1: of discussion of conflict over slavery. Here is actually some

203
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,080
Speaker 1: pretty fun baseball talk with some sexism involved, sexism and

204
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 1: segregation and homophobia, but still fun sports story. Yeah. Uh

205
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, we'll we'll see you again in a couple

206
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,440
Speaker 1: of days. I mean, I guess tomorrow we'll be here

207
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 1: for a Saturday Classic and then Monday at another episode. Anyway,

208
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: if you'd like to send us an email for a

209
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 1: history podcast that I heart radio dot com and we like, you,

210
00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show Stuff You Missed in History Class

211
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

212
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

213
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.