1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Hi, today, we are talking about plastic surgery. This is 2 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: a hot and controversial topic. Are people lying? Are they 3 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: telling the truth? Has she had it? Has she not? 4 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: How much work has she done? Going back to this 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: picture that I posted a couple of weeks ago, that 6 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: was you know, this is me, you know, this is 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: me and glasses. This is me just you know when 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: I wake up. And it was liberating and people were 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: showing their hair frizzy and crazy and it was I 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: felt really good about it. And a lot of people 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: were saying, oh, what about all the plastic surgery, And 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: of course, you know you've had all this stuff done 13 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: and you've had a nose job. I have not had 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: a nose job. I have had plastic surgery on my 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: breast twice. Once was when I was in my I 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: think early thirties and still dating and single, and I 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: had large but sort of saggy boobs and I didn't 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: want to have a scar, so I inserted implants because 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: they told me that it would be like having a lift. 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: In fact, it was just larger saggy boobies. So I 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: was really uncomfortable with that. And then shortly thereafter I 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: had the implants taken out and just had a lift. 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: So I'm counting that is like one. I'm counting that 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: as one breast adjustment composed of two surgeries. So those 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: are the two surgeries that I have had. And I 26 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: and the truth is when I get upset about people 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: with all the filtering and all the fake lives and 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: and pretending everything is perfect and then they contour their waist, etcetera, 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: I just feel that that's not truthful, and it makes 30 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: people feel bad about themselves, like a some of like 31 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: a Jane Fonda, or when we knew that Tom Moore 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: got the work, not that she said it, or even 33 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: when Sonia from my show got a face left like 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: we're happy for her. She said it, she said it. 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: We don't. If you look good in your fucking fifty 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: five or sixty and you look young, it's not because 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: you you ate placentas or because you drank water or 38 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: used ponds. You know, skincare or Ramona for you know, 39 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: she's gonna she's like death becomes or she's gonna be 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: Nine's gonna be in the goddamn box saying Gil it's 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: just Remona skincare. It's like the check is up. So 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking people should be more honest, because that's 43 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: really empowering me, to empowering to other women. I was 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: talking to someone recently who's very well known and attractive 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: and similar to similar aged me, and they said to me, 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: if you haven't thought about doing anything, I haven't talked 47 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: about doing anything, You're behind, You're late. I thought, what, 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: Because I said to them, who's gonna tell me? Like 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: if someone gonna come up to me and knock on 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: my door and like Hi, I just want to mention 51 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: you need to like work on your neck because it's 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: gonna be a problem, or your eyes are sallow or 53 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. And and everybody he has had something 54 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: different done like people all the housewives have had that 55 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: that string thing they put I guess, a series of 56 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: strings under your face and then like a marionette, it's 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: supposed to pull it up and then Dr Sobel says 58 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: that that's bullshit. A lot of the housewives I had 59 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: mini lifts, which means they've done individual like ola carte 60 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: menu tweaks, like someone has an eye thing or neck 61 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: thing or whatever. But just know that everyone's doing it, 62 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: and so that's gonna feel sucky. If you don't have 63 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: a lot of money, and like it's an unfit, that's 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: an unfair thing that people that are wealthier can do 65 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: that ship. And that's why I think there's a lot 66 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: of that anger on social media and what white people 67 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: are coming out to me saying, yeah, what about all 68 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: this all this plastic surgery. But I think if I 69 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: was honest about it, and I was like, I listen, 70 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: I've worked hard and I wanted to do this because 71 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: of this, you know, and maybe people will save up. 72 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: And I guess in non cosmopolitan New York overpriced cities, 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: their payment plans and lesser expensive options. But I just 74 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: sort of want to talk about it because I feel 75 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: like it's a taboo thing. And I went to see 76 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: a doctor the other day because my friend told me 77 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: that I should, and it was an edging paitian. I 78 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: actually went with Dorinda, who Drinda shops this ship all 79 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: the time. She hasn't done anything, by the way. She 80 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: hasn't because she just is not a person that jumps like. 81 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: She needs to do things really slowly. She doesn't break 82 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: up with someone instantly. It needs to take her five years. 83 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: On the opposite, I make a decision, I go. So 84 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: when this person said to me, if you're turning fifteen, 85 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: you haven't even thought about this, and you don'n't understand this, 86 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: then you're behind the eight ball, and I said, oh 87 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: my god. So I went to meet this doctor with 88 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Dorinda just to like here. I just wanted someone to 89 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: say to me, like, you have bad you know, eyeballs, 90 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: you your ears, or you know, too short. I just 91 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: wanted to like know objectively. He said to me that 92 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: there's a little area like which is true because of 93 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: my grinding or something. There's a little area and that's 94 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: like a little concave and my and my uh next 95 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: to my chin, like below my my cheeks and next 96 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: to my chin. And it made sense because he said, 97 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: your skin the elasticity of younger person, that your skin 98 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 1: is like up more and that when we get older 99 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: it starts to just slowly like droop down. So that's 100 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: why some women get those like extra skin by their 101 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: their their jawline and chin. It's like a sagged It's 102 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: it's literally just gravity. I know we all knew this, 103 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: but it was just nice to hear and explain it 104 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: to me. But he said, I have hollow eyes that 105 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: may just be that I'm fucked or there may be 106 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: something to do about it. But then Dorinda was the 107 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: opposite of hollow eyes. She's like she's got extra and 108 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: I've got like like a like a between the brow 109 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,559 Speaker 1: bone and the actual eyelid, which I have good lids, 110 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: by the way, that there's like an area in there, 111 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: which is why. And they said it can look really dark, 112 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: which is interesting because when I put if I put on, 113 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: if any makeup person ever puts dark in the crease, 114 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: which is what people usually do, it looks bad on me. 115 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: And I did not realize why. And the most important 116 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: thing he said is you wanna not come from behind 117 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: in this thing, Like you don't want to be hit 118 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: fifty five or sixty and have to do so much more, 119 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: because then it's such a drastic change. You know how 120 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: people look like you've taken one of those president masks 121 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: and just pulled and stretched it over their face. And 122 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: he showed pictures of like fifty year old women, even 123 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: a forty nine year old woman that had done little 124 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: things and it's made a different So then when you're older, 125 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: you don't have to do you do like a little more. 126 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: You never have that drastic thing. So anyway, I'm thinking 127 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: about doing it, and more importantly, I'm going to be 128 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: honest about it. You know, I'm gonna wear a T shirt. 129 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to get set plastic surgery, and on the 130 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: back it's gonna say I just got plastic surgery, because 131 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: who gives a fuck? Am I pretending to be twenty four? 132 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: I am what I am. So if I post a 133 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: picture with no makeup, I might say hashtag this is 134 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: me with two parentheses that say with a little bit 135 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: of tweak. So that's my rant today about plastic surgery. 136 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: What do you guys think? Is it okay to lie? 137 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: Is there an age that's too young to have work done? Uh? 138 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: And do you get annoyed if people are pretending that 139 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: that's really them and they've had plastic surgery? So you're 140 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: sitting here buying creams thinking you're going to look that 141 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: youthful when it's a bag of bullshit and these people 142 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: have had work done and pretending it's products. I guess 143 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: you know what I think. I think that's absolute bullshit. 144 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy is a writer, producer, director. I love him. 145 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: He is opinionated, confident, has depth and texture and emotionality. 146 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: He's interesting. We are definitely friends. I am so thrilled 147 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: that he is joining me for a real conversation that 148 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: actually brings me to tears. Ryan Murphy has been responsible 149 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: for some massive hits, including Glee, American Horror Story, and 150 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: recently Ratchet on Netflix. You're going to love every minute 151 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: of this. O. Hi. Hi, Bethany. Well, we know each 152 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: other fairly well, but I have never really noticed until 153 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: right now how sexy or voices I sound a little 154 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: Kathleen Turner in the mid afternoon with my Yeah, well, 155 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: it's like a hundred degrees here and there's a lot 156 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: of smoke and allergies in the air, so I think 157 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: my voice is being affected. Well, it's very thank you 158 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: for noticing. So I really not until today when I 159 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's game day, did I really think 160 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: about all that you've done and how incredible of a 161 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: contribution you've made to the world and in particular to 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry. That's funny you were saying that because 163 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: I was upstairs thinking about my career, you know, because 164 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: you want to be on top of your game when 165 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: you talk to Bethany, and I realized, like, I don't 166 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: ever think of any of that. I never think of 167 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: what I've done. I'm always moving forward. I don't believe 168 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: in st alga. You know, it's really really really hard 169 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: for me to stop and celebrate anything. But like, for example, 170 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: the weekend, you know, Sarah Paulson and I have had 171 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: this really big satisfying hit with our new show Ratchet. 172 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: So I said, you know what, no, I'm going to 173 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: force myself to celebrate this and to take a moment 174 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: with Sarah And we both got tested for COVID, and 175 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: Holly Taylor got tested and my husband got says. We 176 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: had everybody get tested and we had a very small, 177 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: intimate dinner party where we just talked about being in 178 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: the moment, how do you feel and what does it 179 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: feel like to have done something that feels great? So 180 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: that was a new experience for me. Well that's just 181 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: and I think you should leaning into that more. I 182 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: do get that because you're still just you, living in 183 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: your own body. And you know, later I want to 184 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: get into with you why you do what you do, 185 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: what really actually drives you, And because I understand that 186 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: people always ask stupid questions like what's next or what's 187 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: the big goal in your life? And some people just 188 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: like to just to go to the next step. It's 189 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: just sort of what they do, are on the path, 190 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: and they're just putting one foot in front of the other. 191 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: So I guess, no, maybe now I'll get to that 192 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: now ahead of myself. Why do you do whatever you do, 193 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing now, whatever you're doing yesterday or tomorrow. 194 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: Why I have a really personal answer to that question, 195 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: which is that um and I don't really talk about 196 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: it a lot because it's very emotional for me. So 197 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: I hope I don't have a moment with you, but 198 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: maybe I will. But you know, when I was growing up, 199 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: when I came of age sexually, it was one and 200 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: it was right when AIDS began. So I went through 201 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: as a gay man the entire AIDS crisis in the 202 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: eighties and into the nineties, you know, from eighty one 203 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: until nineties six, when the cocktail came about, and every 204 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: day of my life I thought, Okay, well this is it. 205 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not gonna make it. I you know, at 206 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: a very young age, was attending many many funerals. A 207 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: lot of this I put into this television show I 208 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: did called Gleegue. You know, that's a o ut any 209 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: thing in that show. So I always felt that I 210 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: was on borrow toe in like I always felt that 211 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: there was an expiration stamp on my ass. And I've 212 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: been to many shrinks to talk about it, and it's 213 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: almost like I'm still I have that fear that it's 214 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: all going to be taken away the next day. So 215 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: it's very ingrained with my work ethic, where I'm like, 216 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: I get an opportunity to create. You know, I had many, many, 217 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: many years of nose until I got a yes. And 218 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: once I got that yes, I just kept going back 219 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: for the yes. And if they're going to keep saying yes, 220 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep doing it. So I felt kind 221 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: of haunted and driven in my ambitions. And I had 222 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: so many friends who were more talented than me, who 223 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: were smarter than me, who died and did not get 224 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: an opportunity. So I kind of do it in tribute, 225 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: I guess to to sort of. You know, I do 226 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: tell a lot of gay stories, but my dream was 227 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: always to tell them and make them fit into a 228 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: mainstream box, not a niche box. And I think that 229 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: I've six ustfully been able to do that. My jam 230 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: now was like, Okay, I'm at a certain age where 231 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: the thing that I'm the most interested in doing is 232 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: helping you know, people who were young, who are in 233 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: their late twenties and thirties, who think they don't have 234 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: a way into the system, just like I had no 235 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: way into the system, you know, like it was hard 236 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: for me. So all of that is kind of in 237 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: the water. That's a long answer to your question, but 238 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: I really feel like that's true about my life. Well, 239 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's relatable to different people in different circumstances. 240 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: And it's funny because my daughter and I during the pandemic, 241 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: that's when we started watching Glee. I had never watched it, 242 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: and it's the only musical show that I've ever I 243 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: don't always like musicals. I don't love people expressing themselves 244 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: through through songs. This show, if anybody was listening, like 245 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: to watch it over again. It's just so groundbreaking in 246 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: every way in every category musically, sexually. You know, just 247 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: anybody who ever gets bullied in high school, or just 248 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: who goes to high school, just I can't believe what 249 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: like a contribution and accomplishment that is. But most of 250 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: what you do, I mean, it has some sort of 251 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: socially conscious aspect to it, is that what do you 252 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: are you driven like? Because everybody I'm driven by money 253 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: in some ways and by you know, as you know, 254 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: relief work in some ways. So what percentage are you 255 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: driven by doing something that's socially conscious or is it 256 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: just something that's just what you know? Or is it 257 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: also can this be successful and be worldwide because I 258 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: also want to make money. I mean, no shame in 259 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: anyone's game. I just actually want to know, like how 260 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: your process is and how you decide which projects to 261 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: do because you now can do anything you want. That 262 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: was a big, loaded question, but if you could answer 263 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: any of it, I honestly feel that the driving thing 264 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: about in my life is a little bit of a 265 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: i'll show you thing, I guess, but it's the goal 266 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: of my life. The goal of my career has always 267 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: been to put something out into the world that I 268 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: was desperate to get as a young person but could 269 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: not find. So when I was growing up, I knew 270 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: I was from the moment I walked, you know, and 271 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: I never saw gay people ever. You know. The only 272 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: person I ever saw who I guess was like me 273 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: was Paul Lynde on the Hollywood Squares maybe, And I 274 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: was very close to my grandmother and once in a 275 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: while we'd be watching like McMillan and Wife with Rock 276 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: Hudson and she would say, well, you know he's he's 277 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: a big old proof and I would say, what really, Like, 278 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: what do you mean? She would she would call that 279 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: from I guess the National Inquirer, something which she loved. 280 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: But my goal was like, okay, when I got some power, 281 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: Even when I first started, my goal was to take 282 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: the marginalized people who were the sidekicks and the butt 283 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: of the jokes and make them the leads. That's always 284 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: what I tried to do is and that also goes 285 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: for women over forty. It's not just about gay people. 286 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: It's the people who have expiration, you know, are told 287 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: you reach a certain age and you're done. That's always 288 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: been my drive in with every project. That's what I've 289 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: sought to do was take the marginalized and make them 290 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the heroes of their own stories. So that even from 291 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: my very first thing that I sold, which is a 292 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: show called Popular, they canceled it after two years because 293 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: I would have massive fights with them where they would 294 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: say things, well, you can't have a gay character unless 295 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: they get cancer. And you can't have a cheerleader character 296 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: where a fur cope, because that's too gay. And I 297 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: would go to meetings with this executive who's no longer 298 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: with us, who would imitate my voice and make fun 299 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: of me and basically called me a big old fag 300 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: in the script meetings, and I was young, and I 301 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: just had to take it in. I just something locked 302 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: into me that just was like, Okay, I want other 303 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: people to not feel this way. And the other thing 304 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: that I've always known and you talk about Glee, you know, 305 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: I had some great executives on that show, but for 306 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: the most part, that was a Fox show that was 307 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: a Rupert Murdoch network. You know, it was conservative as 308 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: you could get. There were a couple of champions, but 309 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: everybody kept saying, nobody's gonna watch this, and I kept saying, 310 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: they will watch it because they're so starved for somebody 311 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: or something that looks like them that shares their interests. 312 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: If you look at that network, it was all like 313 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: procedurals and cops shows and supernatural you know, X file shows, 314 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, if you do a show about 315 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: young people who are interested in things that I was 316 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: interested in. I think there's an audience for that. And 317 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: I believe in that this idea of the more specific 318 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: you make something, the more universal it can become. And 319 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: that's always been the thing that has driven me and 320 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, and tried to change the system in the 321 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: way that I could. What I find is interesting if 322 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: I compare you, or think about any TV producer I 323 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: can think about from back in the day, from David Milch, 324 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: or from J. J. Abrams, or any person that I 325 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: can just off the top of my head think of. 326 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: People stick within their own lane. And I don't know 327 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: that I can think of another television producer or movie 328 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: producer or any producer that really runs the gamut of 329 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: genres I mean rhyme, sci fi, horror, Hollywood glamour, musical, 330 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: high school teams or you know what I mean, you 331 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: really murder Like that's what's amazing that you have a 332 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: courage to go into a totally new thing, because usually 333 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: people also pigeonhole you into Oh we want you for that, 334 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: but you know that's not what you really do. Well. 335 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: I was very aware of that from the very beginning, 336 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, like I was aware that I was going 337 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: to be, you know, seen as sort of a gay 338 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: creator or a gay artist and somebody who only was 339 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: interested in writing for gay people. That was apparent from 340 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: my very beginning of my career, right, So I just 341 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: like to challenge myself, and I think, if you're always 342 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: in the same lane, things get a little dingy and 343 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: you kind of got to shake it up. Exactly did 344 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: you think when you were a kid, or when you 345 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: were growing up, or even in your twenties and thirties, 346 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: did you you had what it took to be successful? 347 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Like some people walk around and feel like they have 348 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: that special thing. May not happen and they don't know 349 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: until the end of the race, but did you feel 350 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: that you had that special thing? You know? I did 351 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: know that I had that special thing, And I'll tell 352 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: you why. Because I was very close with my grandmother 353 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: and she kind of raised me because my I had 354 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: a working mother and then working father, and my grandmother 355 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: kind of realized my sexual orientation early before anyone else did. 356 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: And while my father and other people in my family 357 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: were trying to push me away from that, she was 358 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: in private moments bringing me back to that saying, you know, 359 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: here's a coloring book. Here's a Barbie, Let's go see 360 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: a Barber strice in movie. Let's go see a Dracula movie. 361 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: Let's because you're very interested in big, emotional theatrical things. 362 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: And when I was around eleven o'clock, we were driving 363 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: home from like the Steak and Shake or something, and 364 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: she said, you know, I know that you feel bad 365 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: that you're not like your brother or your cousins, but 366 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: you know that's because you're special, and you have to 367 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: remember that you were made special. So that landed with me. 368 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: So I then became twelve thirteen. You know, I would 369 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: never say I'm special out loud, but I sort of 370 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: just realized, well, it's okay to not be like other people, 371 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: so I would, um, I remember so distinctly, like you know, 372 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: everybody else was aroaring like eyes odds and and you know, 373 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: the preppy handbook stuff. And I went out and I 374 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: bought banana yellow platform boots from a vintage store so 375 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: that I could look like David Bowie, you know, like I. 376 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: So I leaned into that because a woman said it's 377 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: okay to be that. That's going to be the hardest 378 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: thing from you, but everything great in your life will 379 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: spring from that and we you and I came from 380 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: a generation where, you know, parents didn't say I love 381 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: you so much, and they didn't shower children with praise 382 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: or philosophies. But I had that. And the other thing 383 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: I also had in spades was I just always had 384 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: a natural anger. I always was someone who was very 385 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: upset with injustice and very upset about things like that. 386 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: So that kind of fueled me too. And when you 387 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: make those two things meet when you're an adult, Um, 388 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: there was that. You know. When I started working in Hollywood, 389 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: I was in a writer's group with seven people and they're, 390 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: like I said, they were all really talented and special 391 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: and I'm the only one who stayed with it. And 392 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: that's because I was the only one who who wasn't 393 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: devastated when I got to know. And I would always 394 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: say to everybody, and I say this, young people, it 395 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: only takes one yes to change your life. And you 396 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: have to lean into the moment that yes is coming, 397 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: the yes is on its way. And I've always believed 398 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: that even moments of really dark despair, and I guess 399 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: that's a form of narcissism that's kind of kept me 400 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: boyd in the bobbing sees. But I believe in that. 401 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: I think it's fuel. I think you and I are 402 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: so simione, and I didn't realize until today that we're 403 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: both scorpios. I'm on November four, and that's not a 404 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: surprise to me. I don't know if everybody believes in astrology. 405 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I do. But Scorpios are 406 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: very intense people. The secure thing about me that I 407 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: will share with you is I'm a triple scorpio, which 408 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: is really intense. Yeah, that's an intense must be amazing 409 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: in bed. That's a very sexual song. I believe, I 410 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: really do believe that's some of the fortune teller, whoever 411 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: the people are who read it read my signs. She 412 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: gasped and she said, oh my god. And I said, 413 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: what's wrong? And she goes, you're a triple scorpio and 414 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: I said, oh, what does that mean? And she said 415 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: you have the capacity for great good or great evil. 416 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: And that has always stayed with me. And I can 417 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: feel myself bouncing between the two. You know, how do 418 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: you take no? That's very interesting because you know it's 419 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: in my contract that no is not an option, right, 420 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: So I have created a world where you know, I 421 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: can kind of create what I want to create, you know, 422 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: within budgetary restraints, I can green light many of my 423 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: own things, if not all of them. And that was 424 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: really exciting for like two weeks, and then I was like, well, 425 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: what the hell, like I do I want to go 426 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: through the life with nobody's saying you shouldn't do that, 427 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why X. And so I decided 428 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not I'm not going to be 429 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: that guy because you've seen many careers implode. And I 430 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: have surrounded myself with people who tell me the hard 431 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: truth and we have dialogues, and that was important to me. 432 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: And the other thing I wanted to do is surround 433 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: myself with a lot of younger people because I feel 434 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: like in success um you know, I call myself now 435 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: the leftover generation. Like there you can feel the young 436 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: people coming up and you can feel the people who 437 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: are retired, and you're in the middle of that two 438 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: groups and how do you survive? And the thing in 439 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: business that a lot of people don't survive is because 440 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: they don't listen to young people and get an infusion 441 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: of youth. And so I have, um, built a company 442 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: where everybody freely argues with me. Now, sometimes that will 443 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: be intimidating, and there are things where I'm like, no, 444 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: I have a gut instinct about this, and my gut 445 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: instinct is or usually you know, pretty right. But if 446 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: it comes back repeatedly, if more than two people say 447 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: the same thing, I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about 448 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: it and shake it down. And I was surprised that 449 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: I did that because I thought my whole life what 450 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: I fought for was green light power, and then when 451 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: I got it, I was kind of not interested. And 452 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: I haven't even used it once at Netflix, for example, 453 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: almost going on three years, because I don't want to 454 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: make something that the company doesn't believe in. Because if 455 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: you push it through the system and they don't believe 456 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: in it, guess what, They're not going to market it 457 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: for you. They're not going to publicize it for you. 458 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: They're not going to put their heart and soul into it. 459 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: And that's what you need for products to click. The 460 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: reason Ratchet became a worldwide phenomenon was because every person 461 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: who worked on it, from the marketing to the publicity 462 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: to the colorist, was like, I like this, I love this. 463 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: I want to watch this. And I've done a couple 464 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: of things where I was like, what do you think 465 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you know, it was fun. And 466 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: then those are always the things that don't work. And 467 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: I have many things in development, but I will only 468 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: make something if I feel there's a collective yes exclamation point. 469 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: And what you want is people to be excited about 470 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: your product as you are, and if they're not, move 471 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: on to the next thing because there's always something else 472 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: coming down the pipe that maybe everybody will be excited about. 473 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: So that's what I do with my business. It's a 474 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: great thing to say because I will be in the 475 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: middle of being emphatic about something I'm saying and say 476 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: I disagree with myself, like because somebody else will say 477 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: something else that you know I said, like forget it. 478 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Actually I'm going in the opposite direction. It happens all 479 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: the time. I do like to ask different people because 480 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: sometimes you're in the weeds and you can't see it, 481 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: and you know what. The takeaway here for me is 482 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: know what you know and know what you don't know. 483 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like a recipe you put a cup ingredients 484 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: from a bunch of different things in it and then 485 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: you're like, okay, this is this is the answer, and 486 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: then it really does come to you. So that's a 487 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: great way to create. That's a great way to create. 488 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: So you're married, and I want to know, how does 489 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: someone deal with you? How does someone relate relate with you? 490 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: It's it must be challenging. I wrote a book called 491 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: that stock a Relationships so you don't have to It's 492 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: hard to be great at business and relationship. So how 493 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: do you navigate that? You know, it was hard for me. 494 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't settle down and get married until 495 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: I was in my late forties. I had I got 496 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: married and had my first kid when I was forty six, 497 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: So you know, I kissed a lot of frogs and 498 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: and the thing that I would struggle with was I 499 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: would always be dating people who we're also interested in 500 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: being in the spotlight. So and I had many relationsships 501 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: break up, like I would sell a script and then 502 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: they would be mad at me because it amplified what 503 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: they weren't getting in their life that they wanted. And 504 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: I kept going back back to the well and I'm like, Okay, well, 505 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: I don't want to date somebody in the business I 506 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: don't want to date somebody who does what I do, 507 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: and and I felt that I kept doing that, and 508 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: finally I went through a really bad A bad was 509 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: a stretch, you know. I went from a really bad 510 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: dude to a confused bisexual. And you know me, I'm 511 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: very ambitious, so I'm like, well, I can change you, 512 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, I can do this, and of course you can't. 513 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: So I was like, you know, what, funk it? I 514 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: just I love my friends, I love my life, I 515 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: love my career. Um, I'm just gonna be by myself. 516 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't care anymore. I don't want to navigate somebody 517 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: else's problem with me, like and I could never figure 518 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: it out. And even in high school I had trouble 519 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: with it, you know, because I do think in the world, 520 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: particularly now in the social media age, every time your 521 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: success is broadcast, somebody feels small from it, and you 522 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: have to realize that it's not about you. It's not 523 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: it's about them, It's not about you, and that's a 524 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: very hard lesson. So finally I was friends with the 525 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: guy for ten years that I loved, named David Miller, 526 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: and he knew me, Like I said, in the worst moments, 527 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: of my life. He was a friend for a really 528 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: long time before I was successful. And I went to 529 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: him and I said, hey, I'm not going to date anymore. 530 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm done dating, and you you're kind of done dating too, 531 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: So why don't we just have a kid together and 532 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: be friends and like raise a family because we both 533 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: want a family, but we don't want romance. And he 534 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: was like, are you fucking kidding? I don't want that. No, 535 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: and he left the table and was outraged that I 536 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: would even suggest it. I was like, well, okay, well, 537 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: because he liked to obviously we had always kind of 538 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: flirted around, but we never wanted to go there. And 539 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: then ten years later, I was doing the Glee tour 540 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: at Radio City and he was dating some twink and 541 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: he called me up and he said, my twenty two 542 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: year old love interest is interested in a ticket to 543 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: the Glee show. Can you get me one for him? 544 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my God, of course, So here 545 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: we go. So he showed up with you know, the kid, 546 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: and I was backstage. You know, I just finished, yeah, 547 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, when I was wearing a Jill Sounder black 548 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: leather jacket that I could fit into because I had 549 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: just returned from India with Julia Roberts, and I had 550 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: lost all this weight. I was chain smoking and and something. 551 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: So I looked particularly I was. I was flushed with something, 552 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, success. And then he saw me and I 553 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: saw him and I was like wow. And then he said, 554 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: I think we should go out on a date, and 555 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: I was like okay, So we did, and then we 556 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: went out on the date. And then we were married 557 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: a year later, and then we had Logan six months later. 558 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: And the thing that works in our relationship is, I 559 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: call it like a highway, is we're both headed to 560 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: the same destination, but we're in our lane. And when 561 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: we want to sort of merge into each other's lane, 562 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, we do. But but he's he's very good 563 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: with me. He also is interesting because he demands that, 564 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, our family life, our home life, all the 565 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: decisions are equal. So you know, we've gone through therapy 566 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: about it, and I've had to realize that you're not 567 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: the boss in that house. Yeah, which is also a 568 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: very good exercise to have as a human being, because 569 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: if you're just like yes, yes, yes, yes, you're you're 570 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: you're calcifying, it's over right. Your partner uh yeah, and 571 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: I so it's good for me. And we have children 572 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: and we raised them together and we don't always agree, 573 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: but um, the first you work at you work at it. 574 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: We work at it. And it's the first relationship I 575 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: ever had where I felt somebody was supportive of me 576 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: and not jealous. And that makes a difference, and that 577 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: was hard. The thing about it is the people that 578 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: I have on here, in particular. You are so outrageously 579 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: busy and so powerful and important and as I said, exceptional, 580 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: and an hour for you, I know, is a lifetime. 581 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: And I feel like we've been talking for ten minutes. 582 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I I can't tell you how much I 583 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: love it, how appreciative I really am. And just to 584 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: tell everyone that I was being honored at a Creative Coalition, 585 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: which is an important um like a charity in Hollywood, 586 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: but that I was said. My publicist said to me, 587 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: see if somebody wants does anybody that you'd want to 588 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: introduce you? Everybody is so busy in Hollywood. It was 589 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Emmy's weekend and I just threw a hail Mary passed 590 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: and said, Ryan Murphy, I mean I never imagined that 591 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: you would say yes, and then you take the time 592 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: out of your day and come to this long luncheon 593 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: and introduced me, and it was just it was so 594 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: it made me feel like I was had arrived in 595 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: with somebody. But it made me so grateful because you 596 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: took the time and just said yes. So thank you 597 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: for just now, for then, and for being you, and 598 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: for your contribution to entertainment and to young people who 599 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: struggle and in every arena. And I think you should 600 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: take a moment to think about how amazing you are 601 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: in the contribution, because I took a lot of moments 602 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: today think about that about you. Well, thank you. While 603 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: I have a rule in my company, I tell my 604 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: assistant anything about Bethany is always a yes, immediate yes. 605 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why, because you know, when I was, 606 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, starting, and I was working, and you know, 607 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: you and I kind of started around the same time 608 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: to get some success. But I was always so inspired 609 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: by you and how I always felt like we were 610 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: literally in the same track, like we were starting, we 611 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: were told no, and then we'd get a little success 612 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: and then become a thing and it would grow, and 613 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: I always I just always thought you'd handled it with 614 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: so much grace and humor, and you were inspirational and 615 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: you say things that make me um, I think, and 616 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: I think that you're important in the world. That I've 617 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: always loved who you are and what you were presented 618 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: my first cry on the podcast. You know you you 619 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: meant something to me in a way that I don't 620 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: think I've ever expressed to you. When I would watch 621 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: you and I would see your struggle even something like 622 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: when you were going through your divorce or your business struggles, 623 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: or people would tell you know, and you know, I 624 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: remember there was an episode where you were in a 625 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: grocery store and you were trying to pedal your wares 626 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: and you were getting a lot of action and it 627 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: was upsetting to you. And I felt the exact same 628 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: way that day when I watched you and then you 629 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: brush yourself off off and I'm like, you know what, 630 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: I can too. So I thank you for all of 631 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: the secret moments of inspiration that you've given me that 632 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: you don't even know. Oh my God. Likewise, thank you 633 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: so much. Ryan. Wow. I mean this Ryan Murphy interview 634 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: was I just said today, it's going to be unbelievable. 635 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: It's gonna be one of the best ones we do 636 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: I had a feeling. I've read about him, and I 637 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: had so many natural curiosities about his journey, and he 638 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: just he just was amazing and so warm and so um, 639 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: so vulnerable and revealing. And you can understand now why 640 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: his shows have been what they've been and why they've 641 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: been so successful because you can just now understand that 642 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: he really is in all of them, which is such 643 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. And it's a beautiful thing for people 644 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: who are building a brand because you need you are breath, 645 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: your blood, your soul, your body has to be in 646 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're doing. And he could not 647 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: be a better there, could not be a better example 648 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: of that than Ryan. But then, I mean, it's the 649 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: first time I got Terry. But when he said about me, 650 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: I did not have any idea that Ryan Murphy was. 651 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: They gave out my trajectory. You know, we're all just 652 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: fight for alive, trying to trying to get somewhere and 653 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: be somebody, and I'm loving it. I guess I can't 654 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: say enough. Please rate, review, and subscribe all of those. 655 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: It helps me and it keeps us doing This. Just 656 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: Be is hosted and executive produced by me Bethany Frankel 657 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: be Real Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is 658 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: Samantha Allison and our producer is Caroline Hamilton's Corey Preventre 659 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: is our consulting producer, would be Ever Faithful. Sarah Katanac 660 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 1: as our assistant producer. Our development Executive is Nain tar Roy. 661 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: Just Be is a production of Endeavor Content and Spoke Media. 662 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Sam Bear And To catch 663 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram and 664 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: Just Be with bec