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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Rob Sheell tonight, Nick Reiner's

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer jumps ship. Good evening, i'mans he Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle.

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Speaker 1: They didn't deserve this as bad enough that their throats

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Speaker 1: were split in their sleep.

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Speaker 2: The official cod is multiple sharp force injuries aka likely

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Speaker 2: that the knife will split their throat.

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Speaker 3: They ruled it the manner as homside and multiple sharp

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Speaker 3: force injuries.

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Speaker 4: And this is something that is driven by rage.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, just as everyone is assembled in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom for Nick Reiner to be arraigned in the

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Speaker 1: double murders of his father, Rob Reiner and mother Michelle

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Speaker 1: Singer Reiner, Alan Jackson, high profile lawyer that has represented

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Speaker 1: the likes of Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Karen Reid Waltz,

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Speaker 1: is in and jumps ship leaves. Why did mister Green

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Speaker 1: not show up? Listen?

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Speaker 5: As you know, my name is Alan Jackson. This morning

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Speaker 5: I had to withdraw as Nick.

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Speaker 6: Riders counsel.

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Speaker 7: Circumstances beyond our control.

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Speaker 8: The more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing Alan Jackson speaking claiming I had

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Speaker 1: to withdraw. I had to, like, had a gun to

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Speaker 1: his back, circumstances beyond our control and more importantly, circumstances

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Speaker 1: beyond nick as in Nick Reiner's control. I wonder what

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Speaker 1: that could be. Possibly the siblings refused, using to pay

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Speaker 1: for the defense of the man they believe killed their

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Speaker 1: father and mother. Joining me in All Star Pale. But

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Speaker 1: first straight out to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Stories investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: standing by at the courthouse. Alexis, really he didn't know

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Speaker 1: before this morning that he was not going to go

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Speaker 1: forward defending Nick Reiner. It just dawned on him as

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Speaker 1: he stepped up to the podium. That's total bs. He

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Speaker 1: knew ahead of time. But what this does is allowed

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Speaker 1: more time before a not guilty or guilty plea or

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Speaker 1: m GBR I not guilty by reason of his sanity.

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Speaker 1: This is just the defense attorney's best friend, delay, delay,

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Speaker 1: and delay tell me everything.

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Speaker 2: So his Alan Jackson appeared in court today and he

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Speaker 2: asked the judge. He said, I would like to be

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Speaker 2: removed as counsel of record for this case. And he said, quote,

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Speaker 2: I have no choice but to ask for this, and

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Speaker 2: so that was how it started in the court, and

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Speaker 2: the judge agreed. She said, okay, you can be removed

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Speaker 2: as the counsel of record again outside he then said

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Speaker 2: it was beyond his control, and it was beyond Nick's control.

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Speaker 2: I court, specifically, I had no choice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, alexis Arraschak. You're telling me what was said in court.

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Speaker 1: But isn't it true that Jackson met with the judge

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors and most likely explained why he was

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Speaker 1: jumping ship.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but the attorneys all entered court. All of the

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Speaker 2: attorneys went back into chambers with the judge for about

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, and then they came back into court. They

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Speaker 2: spoke with Nick again. He was in the court. He

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Speaker 2: was seated in the inmates cage. He was wearing a

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Speaker 2: brown jail uniform and a white T shirt underneath, and

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Speaker 2: it appeared that his hands were handcuffed in front of him.

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Speaker 2: They spoke with him through the glass and then they

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Speaker 2: asked the judgement, so, yes, they had spoken about it.

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Speaker 1: He.

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Speaker 2: In fact, Nick at one point stood up in the

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Speaker 2: cage and he looked around the court and they called

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Speaker 2: for a woman to come over.

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Speaker 9: This woman is Kim Freed.

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Speaker 2: She's a public defender and she is one of the

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Speaker 2: two public defenders that have been assigned to his case.

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Speaker 1: Okay, alexis you cut out on me just for one moment?

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Speaker 1: Did you say that? Reiner? Nick Reiner looked around the

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Speaker 1: courtroom and saw who.

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Speaker 2: He appeared to look across the courtroom to his new

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Speaker 2: public defender. This woman then stood. He stood up, He looked,

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Speaker 2: He looked over his judge.

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Speaker 1: I need to let that soak in what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: So this guy that everyone is saying is incompetent doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on. He's insane. He knew to scan

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Speaker 1: the whole courtroom and look over and oh, there she is.

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Speaker 1: There's my new lawyer. The other one quit. Okay, tell

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Speaker 1: me what else you observe, because everything you're telling me

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Speaker 1: is giving me new information. So Reiner scans the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: He spots Kimberley Green and he recognizes her. Tell me

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened.

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Speaker 2: So he's talking with his three attorneys again. He is

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Speaker 2: still in the the cage. He never comes out of

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Speaker 2: the cage into the official courtroom. He is there, he

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Speaker 2: is talking. They are all speaking with each other. They're talking,

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Speaker 2: and then he stands up. He's very tall. He's actually

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Speaker 2: probably when he's standing taller than all of his attorneys.

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Speaker 2: He looks across the courtroom and then they say, Kim,

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Speaker 2: come here, and this woman goes over. We learned subsequently

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Speaker 2: that that is Kim Green and she is the public

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Speaker 2: defender assigned to this case. So he looked around and

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Speaker 2: looked for her.

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Speaker 1: Guys, I want to go quickly to Chris Melcher joining

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Speaker 1: us celebrity lawyer partner at wellser Melcher and Yoda deep

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Speaker 1: experience in complex family law litigation as well as criminal law. Melcher,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I can think of

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Speaker 1: a few reasons that a lawyer would jump ship right

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Speaker 1: there at the time of the arrayment. Of course he

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Speaker 1: knew ahead of time, but he waited for this poignant

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Speaker 1: and dramatic moment to abandon the case, to walk off

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Speaker 1: the case. One a conflict of interest, for instance, somem

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Speaker 1: you mel No, you cannot represent one guy charged with

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Speaker 1: murder and a co defendant charged with the same murder

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Speaker 1: because you may want to blame each other. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you might cook up as a defense, but

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Speaker 1: you cannot. No man, can serve two masters period, so

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Speaker 1: conflict of interest. There's no conflict of interest here ethics.

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Speaker 1: Really he represented Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, he's not leaving a

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Speaker 1: case because he has an ethical concern. So let's see

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Speaker 1: what's left. Not getting paid? Mister Green didn't show up

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Speaker 1: to change. Can you think of any other reason, Melcher?

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Speaker 10: I think that's it because the other ground for permissive

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Speaker 10: withdraw and Alan needed permission of the quart or as

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Speaker 10: client to get out. He can't just quit, would be

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Speaker 10: the client made it unreasonably difficult to provide representation. I

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Speaker 10: really doubt that.

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Speaker 9: That said, this is.

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Speaker 10: The most high profile criminal case out there, and Alan

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Speaker 10: attached himself to it quick. I don't think he would

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Speaker 10: want to leave that other than not getting paid. And

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Speaker 10: this was a question that I had at the beginning,

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Speaker 10: is who is funding this very expensive defense? And also

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Speaker 10: who allowed access to Alan Jackson and his team? Almost

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Speaker 10: immediately after the forensic team for the police left, Alan

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Speaker 10: Jackson has got access to that house.

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Speaker 9: Who allowed that access?

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Speaker 10: And so it seemed like somebody in the family or

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Speaker 10: maybe a trustee was providing funding and access to the home.

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Speaker 10: And then maybe there's a change of heart or really

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Speaker 10: coming to their senses, like why are we helping this

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Speaker 10: guy who just killed our parents?

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Speaker 1: Guys, in the last hours, Alan Jackson, high profile attorney

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Speaker 1: who has handled many, many notorious cases, has left Nick Reiner.

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Speaker 1: I would say high and dry. But obviously Reiner knew

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Speaker 1: in court who was his new attorney. She's very, very experienced.

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Speaker 1: Kimberly Green from the Public Defender's office, he knew already

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Speaker 1: who his lawyer was. His new lawyer, So I imagine this

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Speaker 1: all went down before court, possibly yesterday last night, because

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Speaker 1: there seemed to be no surprise on his part at all.

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel. But I want you

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Speaker 1: to hear what Alan Jackson just said in recent days.

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Speaker 8: There are very very complex and serious issues that are

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Speaker 8: associated with this case. Therese need to be thoroughly but

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Speaker 8: very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed.

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Speaker 8: This was a continuance of arrangement. Nothing happened today substantively.

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Speaker 8: We'll be back for an arrangement in the same department

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Speaker 8: on the seventh of January and we'll see you then.

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Speaker 1: How you that from our friends at Fox News. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's dissect what we're just hearing there are very very complex,

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Speaker 1: serious issues associated with this case. In other words, how

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Speaker 1: am I getting paid? Okay, those need to be thoroughly

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Speaker 1: but very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at

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Speaker 1: and analyzed. That came from the Department of Redundancy. Redundancy

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Speaker 1: department very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at

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Speaker 1: and analyzed. In other words, I'm going to have to

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Speaker 1: investigate his checking account to see if there's a daddy's

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Speaker 1: trust fund in there. Anywhere, there was a continuous of

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Speaker 1: the arrayment. Nothing happened substantively. All we're doing is waiting

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Speaker 1: for my check to come through. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: he was saying right there. Back to you, looks as

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Speaker 1: Terreschuk joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter at the courthouse.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody seem surprised at all? No?

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Speaker 2: And in fact, the judge asked Nick the only time

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Speaker 2: he spoken for it, She said, mister Rider, do you

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Speaker 2: agree to this? And he says, yeah, I agree to that.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what he said. It was a specific word,

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Speaker 2: so he knew it happened. It was agreed upon, and

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Speaker 2: in fact, Kimberly Green said outside of court after the hearing,

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Speaker 2: she said this was discussed last night, so they all

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Speaker 2: were coming into this knowing this this morning, and Nick

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Speaker 2: said he agreed.

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Speaker 9: He said, yeah, I agree to that.

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Speaker 1: Take a listener more of what Jackson had to say.

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Speaker 8: Well, we've learned, and you could take this to the bank,

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Speaker 8: he said, pursuing to the laws of this state. Pursuing

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Speaker 8: to the law in California, Nick Reiner is not guilty.

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Speaker 5: Of learner.

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Speaker 11: Print that.

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Speaker 5: Print that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, he's very wily. He's a good lawyer.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you can't blame a private attorney for

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Speaker 1: not taking a case. It's going to include thousands of

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Speaker 1: hours of his or her own work, plus their legal

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Speaker 1: team and their investigators. And they're experts. If they're not

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Speaker 1: going to get paid. But frankly, speaking to you, Melcher,

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Speaker 1: public defenders to get a bad rap. But they are

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Speaker 1: some of, if not the most experienced trial lawyers in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse. They don't get to say no to a

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Speaker 1: case they don't like. You don't want to represent a

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Speaker 1: child molester. Sorry, it's your case, now get on. You

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Speaker 1: can't get out of it. As a public defender, that's

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Speaker 1: your job to represent people that have no representation. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like Hiner's getting a bad deal. Green is

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Speaker 1: a good lawyer, a great lawyer. We don't expect private

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Speaker 1: lawyers to work for free the public. You and I

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Speaker 1: pay public defenders. Somebody like Jackson, Riner's got to pay him.

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Speaker 1: Don't expect him to work for free. Agree, absolutely.

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Speaker 10: And you know, Los Angeles, the Criminal Courts Building has

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Speaker 10: some of the most experienced public defenders out there. And

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Speaker 10: these are people who have dedicated their lives. They're very passionate.

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Speaker 10: Like you say, they get paid very little, they don't

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Speaker 10: get to choose their clients, and they're handling really horrific

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Speaker 10: cases and have substantial experience. So he can be well served.

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Speaker 10: He's not going to get Nick's not going to get

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Speaker 10: the polish of Alan Jackson, but he'll get good defense.

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Speaker 8: Now.

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Speaker 10: Maybe some money opens up later on somehow, Maybe there's

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Speaker 10: a probate court action that's involved in trying to open

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Speaker 10: up some trust funds. Maybe then there's some attorney that

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Speaker 10: goes there. Maybe there's a private attorney who wants it

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Speaker 10: simply for the sake of publicity, and.

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Speaker 9: That could happen too.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Alan Jackson has that a lot of

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Speaker 1: other lawyers don't have Melcher And I witnessed this up

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Speaker 1: close when I was a co anchor co host with

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Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane, when you both start a court TV on

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Speaker 1: the same show, Cochran and Grace, and of course everything

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Speaker 1: that came out of his mouth was a lie for

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Speaker 1: his clients. Of course Simpson did it. Of course everybody

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Speaker 1: he represented did it. When you see Johnny Cochran walk

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Speaker 1: in and I, oh, yeah, they did it. They did it,

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Speaker 1: okay in somehow they paid for Cochrane. But he had

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Speaker 1: what I called then the it factor. He had it.

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Speaker 1: You know those people they walk in the courtroom and

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Speaker 1: no matter what's happening, everybody turns around and looks at them.

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Speaker 1: It's you can't learn it in law school. Nobody can

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Speaker 1: teach it to you. You have it or you don't.

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Speaker 1: It's a presence. It's a star quality. It's a showboat quality.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's

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Speaker 1: an IT factor. That's the only way I know how

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Speaker 1: to describe it. It's not necessarily a charisma, because some

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Speaker 1: people that have it are real a holes, but they've

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Speaker 1: got it. But he has that. He has that just

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Speaker 1: like Cochrane had it. Do you agree or disagree with that?

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Speaker 1: That's the thing money can't buy.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, Nancy and Alan Jackson does have that presence and

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Speaker 10: he is a show boat, but he also has something

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Speaker 10: to back it up with and highly experienced as a prosecutor.

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Speaker 10: And it isn't short involvement in this case. I mean

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Speaker 10: he went to the house with investigators to look at

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Speaker 10: the scene and I'm sure work this thing up very well.

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Speaker 10: So yeah, he is going to deliver, but it comes

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Speaker 10: at a great cost and it just seems like maybe

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Speaker 10: Nick couldn't find that money.

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Speaker 1: So Sidney Sunder joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter along

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Speaker 1: with Lexus Treschuk at the courthouse. Sidney, what do we

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Speaker 1: know about the new lawyer, Kimberly Green from the Public

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Speaker 1: Defender's Office.

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Speaker 3: Well, Miss Green is one of two public defenders assigned

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Speaker 3: to this case, and she's been with the LA Public

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Speaker 3: Defense Office since two thousand and seven. She graduated from

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Speaker 3: Loyola Los Angeles with her law degree, and that's about

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Speaker 3: all we know at the moment.

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Speaker 1: I know this. She's had a very heavy caseload and

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Speaker 1: has tried a lot of cases. Well, there's another side

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Speaker 1: to take into account and that is the prosecution. This

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Speaker 1: is what they had to say in the last hours.

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Speaker 6: Well schedules account age with me is Habibailian.

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Speaker 3: He is the.

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Speaker 6: Assistant Head Deputy of Major Crimes. He will be prosecuting

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Speaker 6: this case. I'm here to make three points and then

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Speaker 6: I will.

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Speaker 5: Not be taking questions afterwards. In our criminal justice system,

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Speaker 5: never defend.

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Speaker 6: Is entitled to a lawyer who will zealously represent their

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Speaker 6: interests and do so effect TOOTU is Nick Reiner. Whether

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Speaker 6: it's Ellen Jackson, someone from the Public Attender's Office, or

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Speaker 6: any lawyer, He's entitled to that lawyer, and we'll make

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Speaker 6: sure he gets that lawyer. Second point, in the process

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Speaker 6: of dealing with that lawyer, we will make sure the

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Speaker 6: DA's office will make sure that that lawyer is provided

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Speaker 6: with full discovery of all the facts that pertains this

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Speaker 6: particular situation. Whether it's interviewers, whether it's any type of video,

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Speaker 6: whether it's any type of extra reports. We'll make sure

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Speaker 6: that down Blare gets the facts necessary to effectively represent

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Speaker 6: their client in a court of law.

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Speaker 5: And third onot we are fully confident.

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Speaker 6: That age you're you'll convict Nick Winer beyond the reasonable

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Speaker 6: doubt of the brutal murders of his parents, Matt Winer

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Speaker 6: and Michelle Singer Win and do so unanimously, thank you

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Speaker 6: very much.

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Speaker 5: And death though.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing Nathan Hakman, the elected district attorney,

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Speaker 1: and you heard the press immediately peppering him with questions

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Speaker 1: about the death penalty. Now, there are several ways that

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Speaker 1: the defense can go here. They can claim mental incompetency,

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Speaker 1: which does not mean insanity at the time of the

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Speaker 1: double murders. Mental incompetency, and I've handled many of them,

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Speaker 1: is when the defense lawyer says he is too incompetent

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Speaker 1: to aid me in his defense. He just can't help me. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: the defendant would have to be hospitalized and hopefully rehabilitated

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Speaker 1: through counseling, through therapy, through medication until they were able

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Speaker 1: to aid their lawyer in their own defense. That's middle incompetency.

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Speaker 1: There is not guilty by reason of insanity, which means

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Speaker 1: rein or would have been insane at the time of

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Speaker 1: the murders. The old McNaughton test is the general rule

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Speaker 1: of insanity in our country, which means did you know

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Speaker 1: right or wrong at the time of the incident, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get into it with our panel whether

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Speaker 1: he did or did not know right from wrong at

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Speaker 1: the time his parents were stabbed. I say, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: knew it was wrong. So you've got melancompetency which can

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Speaker 1: buy you some time. You've got n gbri I not

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Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, you've got plea guilty that's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen, and you've got not guilty. Those

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Speaker 1: are the choices. Those are the only choices at this juncture.

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Speaker 1: Straight back out to Alexis Tereschuk joining us from the courthouse,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like, as you mentioned earlier, nobody was surprised

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Speaker 1: this was in the works. It bought them what forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours before the next court appearance. I'd like you

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Speaker 1: to describe Nick Reiner's demeanor in the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: So he was very calm, He looked very aware, alert.

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Speaker 2: He was speaking with his attorneys repeatedly there with three

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Speaker 2: of them. They would talk to him. He was looking

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Speaker 2: around the courtroom. When they weren't speaking, he was looking

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Speaker 2: out into the gallery. He was looking at everybody and

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Speaker 2: that he could see in the court. He was not crying,

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Speaker 2: he was not upset. His face looked very clear. His

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Speaker 2: head was completely shaved, and he seemed to engage with

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Speaker 2: his attorneys, and then when the judge asked him to.

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Speaker 9: Speak, he said, yeah, I agree to that. He was

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Speaker 9: very clear.

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Speaker 2: In understanding what going on as far as answering her questions.

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Speaker 2: And then again he stood up at.

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Speaker 9: Once plexus to look over his lawyers.

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Speaker 1: Yes, were any other family members there? The siblings? Were

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Speaker 1: they there?

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Speaker 2: No, there were no Rhiner family members in the court.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Yeah, you know what that

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Speaker 1: tells me a lot. Straight back out to Chris Melcher,

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Speaker 1: he's veteran trial lawyer. You know what I mean. If

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Speaker 1: the siblings, if Ryner's siblings were lining up beside him,

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Speaker 1: they would have been in court today. We know it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to admit to it,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that they were not there tells me. A,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to help him out of this. They're

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Speaker 1: not getting his rear end out of a sling, and

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Speaker 1: b these youre aren't going to pay for his defense.

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Speaker 1: And that is why Alan Jackson is off the case.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, And that's a common sense reaction. You would think

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Speaker 10: that family member's siblings that they're not going to support

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Speaker 10: for the person that allegedly murdered their parents. But I

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Speaker 10: do go back to the access that Alan Jackson got

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Speaker 10: to the home, and it was maybe like on a

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Speaker 10: Tuesday or something after the crime, right after the LAPD

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Speaker 10: forensics left. He walks in and I think it might

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Speaker 10: have been a Reiner assistant that opens the gate. So

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Speaker 10: who allowed that? There was no court order for it

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Speaker 10: that the defense could have received. It was pre arranged.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, it was also the home of Nick Reiner.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't Reiner give consent for him to come into the home?

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Speaker 1: His home too? He lived there, I.

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Speaker 10: Mean, I suppose as an occupant. But then the other

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Speaker 10: people could have just said no, we're not We're just

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Speaker 10: not letting you in, and and it would be then

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Speaker 10: in a sibil matter, the police aren't gonna intervene with that.

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Speaker 10: You'd have to get a court order.

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Speaker 1: What other people? Nobody else lived there. The other siblings

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Speaker 1: lived elsewhere at Rome across the street, but there was

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Speaker 1: no one to say, hey, we live here and you

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Speaker 1: can't come in. He lived there, He wasn't just an occupant.

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Speaker 1: That was his home along with his parents. He could

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Speaker 1: have been oh, I'm so glad you said that, Melcher.

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Speaker 1: That tells me it's very likely he was in his

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Speaker 1: right mind to allow Alan Jackson consent to come into

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Speaker 1: the home, to hire Jackson, and to give him access

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Speaker 1: to the home. He was actually making an investigative decision.

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Speaker 1: He could have allowed that consent.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it's really remarkable how he got in there. And

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Speaker 10: then back to I mean the Sunday evening before he

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Speaker 10: got arrested, he goes into the convenience store, he buys gatorade,

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Speaker 10: So obviously you knew the difference between right and wrong.

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Speaker 10: He knew he couldn't just come and take that gatorade

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Speaker 10: and walk out, but that he knew how to pay

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Speaker 10: for it.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing that video that Melter's talking about from our

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Speaker 1: friends at CBS. Joining me right now, Special guest Heather Michaels.

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Speaker 1: She is not just an investigator, reporter, a producer. She's

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Speaker 1: a social justice advocate. But she is a neighbor and

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Speaker 1: a dear friend of the Reiner family. Are you surprised

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Speaker 1: that Romey and her brothers did not show up to

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Speaker 1: court today, Heather.

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Speaker 7: I am not surprised at all, not one bit. Their

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Speaker 7: parents were brutally murdered. This is their brother, but he's

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Speaker 7: essentially estranged, and this is something that took everybody by storm,

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Speaker 7: entirely devastating. I am not surprised. I was waiting for this.

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Speaker 7: I was shocked at Alan Jackson jumped onto this, but

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Speaker 7: quite frankly, this is an opportunity for him, and I

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Speaker 7: think he pushed his way in. And I'm just going

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Speaker 7: to be frank about this. He didn't have the authority

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Speaker 7: from the family or longtime family friends, the very close

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Speaker 7: friends that have been like family. This was not an

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Speaker 7: authorized Chess move forward or Nick. So I am not

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Speaker 7: surprised about today at all. I was waiting for the

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Speaker 7: next shoot of all. As you know, my.

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Speaker 5: Name is Alan Jackson. This morning I had to withdraw

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Speaker 5: as Mick Lmer's counsel. Circumstances beyond power control, the more.

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Speaker 8: Importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control.

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Speaker 1: There was blood in the bathtub, there was blood all

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Speaker 1: over the bathroom.

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Speaker 9: There was blood on the bedsheets.

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Speaker 1: What do we know? So much more evidence to sift through,

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Speaker 1: and the martyrs of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner.

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Speaker 12: LAPD responded to a residence the residents of Rob and

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Speaker 12: Michelle Reiner located in West Los Angeles. At that location,

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Speaker 12: they found two deceased adults, some male and a female.

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Speaker 12: Through the night, working with the coroner's office, they were

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Speaker 12: able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner.

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Speaker 13: Unable to get in touch with their parents. All day Sunday,

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Speaker 13: Rummy Reinder decides to make a house visit. Around three

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Speaker 13: point thirty. Rummy lets herself into their Brentwood home and

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Speaker 13: discovers a horrifying scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed and

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Speaker 13: their throats slit. Rummy dials nine one one in a panic,

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Speaker 13: but EMTs can do nothing, and that.

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Speaker 1: Earlier sound from law enforcements from our friends at Fox

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Speaker 1: eleven joining me in all star panels, straight back out

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Speaker 1: to Alexis Terestchuk joining us at the courthouse. I heard

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Speaker 1: you describe what Nick Reiner was wearing. Normally I don't

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Speaker 1: care about fashion, but in this particular case, I find

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Speaker 1: it extremely probative. He was not wearing a suicide smock.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 9: That is correct.

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Speaker 2: It was just appeared to be a white T shirt

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Speaker 2: and a round uniform. Interesting the other inmates who had

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Speaker 2: been in there prior to his case being heard, were

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Speaker 2: in blue, he was in brown, so there was that

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Speaker 2: difference between them. And again his head was completely shaved

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Speaker 2: and his face looked clear. He didn't have any markings

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Speaker 2: or anything from what I could see. And he was

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Speaker 2: again looking around the court, chatting with his attorneys. And

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Speaker 2: then after Jackson was recused by the judge, Kimberly Green

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Speaker 2: came over to him in the court and she stood

436
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: outside the INMA cage and they were again speaking to

437
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: each other. We couldn't see what she was saying, but

438
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: they were speaking to each other. And then the judge

439
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: asked him again, is this what you agree to? And

440
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: he says, yeah, I agree to that.

441
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm going out on a loom. Here. Sidney Sumner, Crime

442
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: storys investigative reporter also joining us. Sidney I imagined that

443
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: the other inmates were in GP general population while Reiner

444
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: of Suicide Watch is still under high observation and the

445
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: uniforms may very well be different. So the wardens, the employee,

446
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: yes at the jail at the CI Correctional Institute, can

447
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: look at a suspect, a defendant and note, hey, he's

448
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: wearing tan. He's not supposed to be in GP. Getting

449
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: back to high observation. You know my school uniforms. The

450
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: kindergarteners wear the little red dress, and then they wear

451
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: the plaid smock, and then they go to middle school

452
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: and they wear the cute little kaki skirt. The teachers

453
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: just look at them and they know where they're supposed

454
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: to be. I bet that's why his uniform, his jail,

455
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: his inmate uniform was different than the others.

456
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. So he doesn't have to wear that

457
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: anti self harm smock anymore, but he isn't specific specific

458
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: clothing for that high observation housing unit where he's currently

459
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 3: being held, and reports say that even if he is

460
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 3: released from this high observation unit, he will still be

461
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: very closely monitored and still kept in solitary.

462
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 13: Ran Ripier's in courts an anti self harmed smock. After

463
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 13: his arrest on two charges of murder to finally inter

464
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 13: a plee.

465
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 14: Reiner moved off suicide watch at the Twin Towers Correctional Facility.

466
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 14: No longer to wear a padded smock, now allowed a

467
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 14: yellow shirt with blue uniform pants. Reiner still held alone

468
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 14: in high observation housing until a judge orders him to

469
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 14: move elsewhere. Even if Reiner is released from h OH,

470
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 14: he will be closely monitored and have a cell to himself.

471
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us high profile

472
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst in that jurisdiction LA, author of deal Breakers. You

473
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: can see her now on peacock and you can find

474
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: her at Doctorbethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, explain to me

475
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: what it means when someone is off suicide watch but

476
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: they are in high observation.

477
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 11: It means that they're in an extraordinarily fragile state, right,

478
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 11: that there's a risk that they could try to harm

479
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 11: themselves or somebody else, but they're not such an acute

480
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 11: risk at that point. It could also be that they've

481
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 11: stabilized him on metaations or that signs of suicidality like

482
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 11: disruption and sleep appetite concentration, being labile, being dysregulated, that

483
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 11: that has all gone away, and he's kind of resumed

484
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 11: normal function at this point.

485
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: So normal function, but yet not in GP, not in

486
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: general population.

487
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 11: Right, normal function, Nancy, This Nick Reiner is extraordinarily bright,

488
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 11: oriented towards reality, inventive. He was really good at getting

489
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 11: himself taken care of and whatever way he needed. I

490
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 11: used to listen to him on the Dope Podcast, it's

491
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 11: a podcast about drug addiction. He would call in, and

492
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 11: when he was in rehab in Maine, he calls into

493
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 11: the Dope Podcast and he tells them he wants to

494
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 11: go home and live with his parents, So he's going

495
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,239
Speaker 11: to get get sober for a couple of weeks just

496
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 11: so they'll discharge him so he can go back to

497
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 11: his parents' house to use. And that was discussed on

498
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 11: the podcast. He was right to do that. He's bright enough,

499
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 11: Nancy to aid in his own defense, to have known

500
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 11: that if he was on serious substances, it could get

501
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 11: to this point with the people around him. And I

502
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 11: cannot blame his siblings for not wanting him out of jail.

503
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 11: They probably feel that they're at risk too of harm.

504
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 11: Why have a homicidal person who refuses to get sober,

505
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 11: who's gone toe eighteen rehabs in seventeen years. Why inflict

506
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 11: that person out on society? That would be wrong for

507
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 11: them to assist in his defense, I really think, and

508
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 11: they understand that well.

509
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: And also who's left them the siblings, Yes, they do

510
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: not want him out from behind bars. You were speaking

511
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: of the dopey podcast he would call in on listen.

512
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 15: I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it

513
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 15: was coke and something else, and I was up for

514
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 15: days on end, and I started punching out different things

515
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 15: in my guest.

516
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 6: Outs, like a frame, like what like a stuff in

517
00:29:59,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 6: I think I.

518
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 15: Still started with the TV, and then I went over

519
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 15: to the lamp, and then progressively I just everything in

520
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 15: the guest house got wrecked.

521
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 1: So I want to follow up on this Sydney Sumner

522
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: joining us Sydney. He is in the Twin Tower CI

523
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: Correctional Institute. Isn't that the same CI that housed Sam Haskell?

524
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: I guess the fourth or the fifth? Oh gosh, there

525
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: he is. Didn't they house Haskell?

526
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely that is the same facility, and that's where Halskell

527
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: took his own life.

528
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: Speaking of another Hollywood nepo, baby, let's take a little

529
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: listen to Sam Haskell.

530
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 16: Correction I'm not so much interested in like whole body health,

531
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 16: Like this is not CBD is not about wellness for me.

532
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get retarded peace.

533
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 16: One hundred GEO shouts.

534
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 17: Out to the waiter at the restaurant, above Norstroms for

535
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 17: just like completely burning the sh out of my filet like,

536
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 17: what kind of a monster are you? Homie?

537
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: Shout out to the waiter that totally ruined my sixty

538
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: dollars steak I had at lunch. Really, that's from Tragic

539
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Streets on TikTok. Another NEPO baby ends up in Twin Towers.

540
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall, the shock must be drastic to

541
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: go from living in your dad's multimillion dollar mansion, the poolhouse,

542
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: raiding the sub zero whenever you felt like it, having

543
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: both parents at your whim to bail you out of

544
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: everything you have ever done, to pay for you court Blanche,

545
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: and now you're in observation high observation at Twin Towers.

546
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 11: See I what which is where he's Nancy is where

547
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 11: he should be? I mean, it's one of the biggest

548
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 11: psychiatric facilities on the West Coast because they have so

549
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 11: many psych admissions there in tandem with crimes. You know,

550
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 11: Rob and Michelle were very loving, psychologically healthy, growth promoting

551
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 11: parents who did anything for their son Nick, and he

552
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 11: abused that and he did what addicts do to families.

553
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 11: They can take really normal, lovely delightful parents and just

554
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 11: turn them into accommodators. They wrap the parents around their

555
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 11: little finger. He's not going to be able to wrap

556
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 11: the public defender, or the prosecutor, or the jail guards,

557
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 11: or the psychiatrist in the facility. He's not going to

558
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 11: be able to wrap any of them around his finger.

559
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 11: And I think that's where the shock is really going

560
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 11: to lie. His protective layer is now gone as well

561
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 11: as it should be. He does not need anybody protecting

562
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 11: him at this point.

563
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 5: How many times have you been in and out of reha.

564
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 15: I'll be honest, it's been like seventeen or eighteen times.

565
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 5: I saw it when I was like almost about the

566
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 5: term fifteen. THERE'TI like nineteen.

567
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 15: From fifteen to nineteen, and yeah, it's like been thirty

568
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 15: four years.

569
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: From the pledge and the turn.

570
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 11: There was a pretty big argument between Rob Michelle and

571
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 11: their son Nick. But Nick has had a very long

572
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 11: and troubled history with drugs.

573
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: Nick Reiner is an abuser. He's a drug addict. For

574
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, an abrupt u turn

575
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: goes down in the courtroom today in what should have

576
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: been Nick Reiner's formal arrangement. His high profile lawyer Alan

577
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: Jackson jumps ship and says circumstances out of his control

578
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: and out of Nick Reiner's control have forced him off

579
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: the case. In other words, the siblings are not paying

580
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: for Jackson. Straight back out to Alexis Tereschuk joining us

581
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: at the courthouse, Alexis for those just joining us, what happened?

582
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: So Alan Jackson, Nick Rener's attorney appeared in the court

583
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: today with Nick and he asked the judge to remove

584
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: him as counsel of record. He said he had no

585
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: choice but to ask for this request, and the judge

586
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: granted it and said you are no longer his attorney.

587
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: He is now represented by a public defender. And Nick

588
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: was asked in court do you agree with this? And

589
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, I agree with that. So there was

590
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 2: a deal that was made, and the public defender actually

591
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: said Nick was aware of this last night. So this

592
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: morning they went in and they told the judge. First

593
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: they were behind closed doors and chambers, and then they

594
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: came out and said that this was what was happening.

595
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: Alexis rustic. I don't understand why you say it like that.

596
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: A public defender. Those are some of the best trial

597
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: lawyers in the courthouse. Just because they don't get paid

598
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: when Alan Jackson or Chris Melcher gets paid to represent somebody,

599
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: does not mean they are not excellent, tactical and strategic

600
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: lawyers at trial. And you know another thing, Wait, well,

601
00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: what go ahead?

602
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, Kimberly Green went to

603
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 2: one of the best law schools in Los Angeles. Loyle

604
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: is known as one of the top law schools in

605
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, and she has been practicing for almost twenty

606
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: years as a public defender.

607
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: You know, and in cases like this, just in case

608
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: there's going to be a DP, you have to be

609
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: DP qualified. You can't just waltz in having never sat

610
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: a second seat at least on x number of trials

611
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Alexis Terreschuk is joining

612
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: us at the courthouse. But as it relates to public defenders,

613
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: it does shouldn't lead a bad taste in your mouth.

614
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: They are veteran trial lawyers, okay. And all of this

615
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: business about being forced off the case, He forced himself

616
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: off the case. Nobody asked him to leave the case.

617
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: He did not have an ethical violation, He did not

618
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: have a conflict of interest that we know of, So

619
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: there you go. He just wasn't going to get paid now. Earlier,

620
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: we were hearing doctor Bethany Marshall describing what it means

621
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: to be on high observation within the Twin Towers. It

622
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: means you're off suicide watch, but they're still keeping a

623
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: close eye on you. In the last year, Sam Haskell

624
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: a huge NEPO baby. His dad was the Hollywood agent

625
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: to the stars. The dad represented Dolly Parton, Whoopee Goldberg.

626
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: Just off the top of my head. I can't remember

627
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: all of them, but a list celebri I mean, look,

628
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: if he represented Dolly Parton, you know he's got to

629
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: be in the big league. And this is his son.

630
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: Let's see him again. I believe he had posted one

631
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: video of himself like on a seesaw, going up and

632
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: down and up and down while he lived off his

633
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: wife and his daddy's paycheck. Hey, let's take a listen

634
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: to him.

635
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 16: I went to a tech conference real quick, you guys

636
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 16: by mistake, and the number one thing they talked about

637
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 16: was consistency, Like, be consistent. Now, I'm consistently never going

638
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 16: to stop.

639
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 4: Drinking, talking on AirPods, just talking randomly with like nobody

640
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 4: in the other end. It just feels important, order multiple drinks,

641
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 4: and I'll just be like, oh, yeah, they're on their way.

642
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: If you see me typing really fast, like looking really

643
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 4: productive on my laptop, just like typing typing, chances are

644
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 4: I'm just typing random letters and numbers.

645
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: From tragic streets on TikTok, living off of his father

646
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: making his wife may work her tail off to pay

647
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: the house payment while he's out whining about the steak

648
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: he got? Where where did he get the steak? Whining?

649
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, long story short. Regardless of what you

650
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: think about the life he chose to live, his unproductive life,

651
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: he committed suicide in twin Towers. Do I have to

652
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: say the name Jeffrey Epstein, who had actually been on

653
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: suicide Watch? Have you looked at the videos of the jail,

654
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,479
Speaker 1: I mean they can't tell who got into his cell,

655
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: who didn't get into his cell? Is still hotly contested.

656
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: Did he commit suicide or was he murdered? Many many

657
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: renowned medical examiners and death investigators insist he did not

658
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: commit suicide based on the markings on his neck. But

659
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: that said, it was under the watch of two guards

660
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: that he died and they knew nothing about it. So

661
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: what do you know, Alexis Tereschuk about the safeguards on

662
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: this guy, Nick Reiner.

663
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 2: Well, while he's been removed from suicide watch, that doesn't

664
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: mean that he's not under constant surveillance.

665
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 9: In fact, they took special progressions.

666
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: He wasn't brought into the courtroom with the three other

667
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: defendants that were there today. He was by himself. There

668
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: was the sheriff's deputy standing right next to him the

669
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: whole time. He is definitely still under very high surveillance

670
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: because the district attorney doesn't want something else terrible to happen,

671
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: and certainly nobody wants this.

672
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 9: To happen to him.

673
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 17: Shouts out to the waiter at the restaurant above Norstrums

674
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 17: for just like completely burning the out of my filet

675
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 17: like what kind of a monster are you, homie?

676
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 7: And he struggled with.

677
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

678
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 7: He struggled with mental health issues most of his life.

679
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 7: He struggled with a lot, and there were times when

680
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 7: some things that he said were just a little odd.

681
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 7: It's just unthinkable, it's unfathable. These are two parents that

682
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 7: were absolutely fantastic. We're loving, compassionate.

683
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: A major turn of events in the courtroom today, high

684
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: profile lawyer Alan Jackson jumps a ship and leaves the

685
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: defense of Nick Reiner, charged in the double murders of

686
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: his father, Rob Reiner, an icon and his beloved wife

687
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: Michelle Singer Reiner. Joining me now, special guest doctor Thomas Coin.

688
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: He is the Chief Medical Examiner, District two Medical Examiner's Office,

689
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: State of Florida. He is a forensic pathologist, he's a toxicologist,

690
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: he's a neuropathologist. And it goes on, doctor Coin, thank

691
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: you for being with us tonight. Question to you, you

692
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: now know the cod cause of death different from mod

693
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: manner of death. The cause of death I find very

694
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: interesting and it suggests to me that there was either

695
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: a frenzy attack or the Whiners fought back. There were

696
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: multiple stab wounds, not just the slitting of the throats

697
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: of the two victims in their sleep, but multiple stab wounds.

698
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: If the jugular was not slit first, Doctor Coin, did

699
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: they suffer? Did they know what was happening to them?

700
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 18: Well, unfortunately, they probably did stab wounds or in size wounds,

701
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 18: even to our neck. Because you know, within our neck

702
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 18: we have both our jugular vein and we had the

703
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 18: carotid artery, and if you sever either one of those,

704
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 18: you're going to bleed a lot.

705
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 7: And you're going to bleed very fast.

706
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 18: But it can still take several minutes for you to

707
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 18: become incapacitated or lose consciousness, especially if it's the vein

708
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 18: that's struck, because bleeding will be slower, but you are

709
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 18: still conscious through that process. Unless you know, the knife

710
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 18: goes into the actual brain itself consciousness will still be,

711
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 18: you know, present. So I would imagine that unfortunately, during

712
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 18: this attack, they were conscious and aware of what was

713
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 18: happening to them.

714
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: Doctor Thomas Coin, I know that it's SOP standard opera

715
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: procedure for you to conduct autopsy after autopsy after autopsy

716
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: in the thousands, but do you have to steal yourself?

717
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: For instance, if you were doing the autopsy of Rob

718
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: and Michelle Reiner, do you allow yourself when you're looking

719
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: at that body to think, dear Lord, I hope they

720
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: didn't suffer, And then you look at the wounds and

721
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: you realize there may have been a struggle. So they

722
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: did suffer. They did know what was happening to them,

723
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: you know, in the Brian Coburger case, here's a great example.

724
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: We were first told basically that the four beautiful University

725
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 1: Ido students just went to sleep and then they were

726
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: in heaven just like that. Nothing happened in between. That's

727
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: a lie. They fought for their lives. They struggled. One

728
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: victim was stabbed over thirty times in the face, and

729
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: you have to accept that, grapple with it, and no,

730
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: oh that they suffered, And I just wonder, how do

731
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: you do that day in day out.

732
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 18: You have to get really good at tucking those emotions inside.

733
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 18: I had a stab worn multiple stab one case about

734
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 18: a week ago, and I think if I thought about

735
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 18: that person as being someone's father or someone's son, I

736
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 18: wouldn't be able to do my job. I have to

737
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 18: tuck those emotions down deep, be scientific about how I

738
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 18: approach the case, try to answer all questions I can

739
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 18: for law enforcement, and then afterwards, Uh, if but an

740
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 18: emotion comes through my brain, I try to suppress it

741
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 18: as best as I can, because if I entertained those emotions,

742
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 18: I wouldn't be able to do my job. But it

743
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 18: is very hard.

744
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: Well, you're right, doctor, con. I remember distinctly being in

745
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: the courtroom and just getting through it and stealing myself,

746
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: not allowing myself to think about what the victims went through.

747
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: And then when I would leave the courthouse, there were

748
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: times I'd actually have to pull over off the side

749
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: of the road and just to stop and think about

750
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: what I had just learned from usually the medical examiner

751
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: on the stand. I want to return to a very

752
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: special guest joining us, Heather Michaels. She's just not only

753
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: an active as a producer or reporter, she was a

754
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: very dear friend of the Rhiners, still a friend of

755
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: the children, their neighbor. How do you come to the

756
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: grips with the fact that the Rhiners they just just

757
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: get their throat slip, which bad enough, but that could

758
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: have happened just like that, there were multiple stab wounds.

759
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: As they lie in their bed, they fought they knew

760
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: what was happening to them.

761
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 7: Heather, I struggle with that. It's so painful to imagine

762
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 7: that Rob and Michelle were aware of this happening as

763
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 7: it was happening. I've held back a lot in how

764
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 7: I express my, you know, my feelings of truly of

765
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 7: how things unfolded, but it comes across like a rage.

766
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 7: I mean, this was a brutal murder. And I'm not

767
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 7: going to sugarcoat anything because the rhyin Or family, Rob

768
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 7: and Michelle were such special individuals and the children, all

769
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 7: of them, and I know I could calling them children,

770
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 7: they're adults, adults, every one of them is amazing. I

771
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 7: am very angry, you know what a lot of the

772
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 7: things I've seen in recent days, and that I also

773
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 7: know that I haven't expressed here. It's just it's hard

774
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 7: to come to grips with this. It's an unbelievably disturbing

775
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 7: tragedy and it's becoming a circus at the same time

776
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 7: with some of the games that are being played with

777
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 7: with Alan Jackson even today. I'm not surprised, as I mentioned,

778
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 7: but this is going to unravel even further with the

779
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 7: optics and the circus and the way things this is covered.

780
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 7: I just want to get back to one more thing

781
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 7: I want to say is again, Robin Michelle were so

782
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 7: dearly loved by everybody, by the industry, by his dear family,

783
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 7: friend's lifelong friends. You know his father, You know that

784
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 7: legacy of producers and actors in the industry and his

785
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 7: neighbors as elderly neighbors. They were just really special people.

786
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 7: And I just don't want, you know, to forget that

787
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 7: this is a tragedy and just what beautiful souls they

788
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 7: were and they did everything they could with Nick. This

789
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 7: is a very difficult situation when somebody has mental health

790
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 7: challenges and struggles with schizophrenia, which is what I had

791
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 7: mentioned to you when we did the other program. He's

792
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 7: aware of his actions, so and I'm going to put

793
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 7: that out there.

794
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: You know, Heather, you stated that you are concerned that

795
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 1: this will quote turn into a circus. I can promise you,

796
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: Heather Michaels, there will not be one night that we

797
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: cover this investigation that we do not make it about

798
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: the victims, Rob and Michelle and their family left behind.

799
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: The big banner today is all about Nick Reiner and

800
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: Alan Jackson, But for me, it's about Rob Reiner and

801
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: Michelle Singer Reiner that were brutally slashed dead in their

802
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: own beds, according to prosecutors, by a sun that they

803
00:47:54,600 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: had spoon fed every privilege possible throughout his life. If

804
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything about this case

805
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: before daring or after the incident. LAPD is constructing a

806
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: case along with the District Attorney. Please call crime stoppers

807
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven Repeat

808
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. Now

809
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: we remember an American hero, Trooper Tara Gooding, Washington State Patrol,

810
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: just twenty nine, killed in a line of duty, leaving

811
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: behind her young husband, American hero Trooper Tara Gooting. Thank

812
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 1: you to our guests, but especially to you for being

813
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: with us tonight and every night. Nancy Grace signing off,

814
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night, God willing, And until then,

815
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: good night friend,