WEBVTT - Trump's Conviction, Google Breakup & 'Bitcoin Jesus' 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:09.559 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.920 Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is opposing efforts to dismiss 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.919 President elect Donald Trump's hush money conviction, but he has 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:23.440 expressed openness to delaying sentencing until after Trump's second term. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.840 In a court filing today, the DA said Trump's forthcoming 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.400 presidency isn't grounds for dropping a case that was already tried, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.960 but quote, given the need to balance competing constitutional interests, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.280 consideration must be given to potentially freezing the case until 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.239 after he's out of office. Trump's lawyers are hoping to 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.320 toss out the case completely, telling the judge in a 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.000 letter that there are strong arguments for dismissal, including the 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.680 Supreme Court's July decision on presidential immunity in criminal cases. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.680 But Bragg said Trump's argument that he can't be prosecuted 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.240 as president elect has no bearing on the state's case 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.720 after a Manhattan jury unanimously found him guilty at a 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.160 time when he was not immune from criminal prosecution. The 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:14.240 President elect was convicted in May of falsifying business records 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.760 to cover up a scheme to influence the twenty sixteen election. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.280 Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric Larson, who's been 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:26.160 covering all these cases. Eric tell us about Alvin Bragg's 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:27.600 letter to the judge. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.040 So the judge overseeing the hush money case had asked 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.560 the prosecutor to let him know his recommendation for what 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.520 should happen next in the case given Trump's election victory. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.120 So the letter had a bit of a concession in 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.759 it by the district attorney, who said that given the 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.120 election outcome and the powers and responsibilities of the US presidency, 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.840 the DA would be open to discussing delaying the case 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.160 during Trump's term in office. But the prosecutor also signaled 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.240 further fighting here by saying that the DA would fight 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.840 any attempt by Trump to outright dismiss the case. And 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.240 Trump's side said in a letter earlier that they do 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.639 intend to seek a dismissal of the case, even though, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.480 of course, the jury has already delivered its verdict and 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.680 he's been found guilty on thirty four felony counts. Trump 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.560 is going to argue that, in light of his election victory, 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.600 the whole case and verdict should be passed out. So 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.040 the prosecutor is signaling sure, you can make that act, 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.520 but we're going to fight it, and in the meantime 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.679 the case will be delayed. So there's still quite a 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.320 bit of arguments going ahead here. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.880 Trump's lawyers wrote that the case had to be scrapped 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.800 to facilitate the orderly transition of executive power and in 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.240 the interests of justice. I mean, if he's not going 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.920 to be sentenced, it doesn't interfere with the transition of power. 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.880 And the jury rendered its verdict in the justice. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.160 System, well, it has been decided. But this, of course 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.360 is so unprecedented. There's really never been a case like 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.519 this before. I mean, it's strange enough or unusual enough 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.440 to have a former president found guilty of crime. But 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.960 the fact that he was convicted before the election, but 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.760 then was not sentenced before the election, it leaves open 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.399 this question. So the government clearly is saying, it said 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.640 in this letter that look, the jury has spoken, and 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.600 we have to respect the findings of this jury. But 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.840 let's talk about how this proceeds. So we can expect 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.600 to see some very novel arguments laid out in Trump's 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.080 filing whenever that does come. Beking dismissal of this verdict 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.600 but of course they're going to point to the powers 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.160 of the presidency and point to clashes between states and 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.680 the federal government and who should prevail. So again, nothing 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.440 has ever happened like this before, So we'll have to 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.880 wait and see what Trump's filing says. But the prosecutor 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.680 is definitely signaling a fight here. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.840 Yeah, I mean, it would be so unusual to just 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:49.040 set aside a jury verdict because the defendant has become president. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.440 What would be the legal basis for that, right? 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.240 I think some of the legal experts have actually said 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.160 that a judge really can't do that in the New 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.480 York law, that except under certain circumstances, and it's unclear 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.120 if this be one of those. But you know, other 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.560 experts have said that if things don't go the way 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.480 Trump wants in this court, they could also try again 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.440 to have the whole case transferred to federal court, where 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.320 it could be more quickly dismissed, potentially under these federal arguments. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.240 And Trump of course did try that in this case 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.400 a couple of times earlier in sales, but that was 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.920 before the election, so he's got new potential arguments here. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.560 This has not happened yet, but it is something experts 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.040 is that he could try to do in terms of 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:27.160 moving into federal court. 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.920 Is the sentencing date still scheduled? 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.760 Right, So the court is saying that as of now, 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.600 technically the November twenty sixth sentencing date, it's still on 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.160 the calendar, but it seems fairly clear that that's not 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:44.200 going to actually happen. The letter itself, but by the 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.080 district's attorney, proposes that Trump be given a deadline to 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.200 file his motion to dismiss and that the DA be 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.200 given a chance to respond. Of course, and the response 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.160 to date proposed that a DA was December ninth, So 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.360 the judge is probably going to look pretty strongly at 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.320 what the DA is proposing. This is the government's case here, 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.120 and so it doesn't seem like there's any chance of 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.040 that actually happening on November twenty sixth. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.159 And we should note, I mean it's been delayed the 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.920 sentencing at Trump's request, right. 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.800 Right, So we're at this moment where the judge is 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.560 going to have to decide whether or not he can 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.640 sentence a president elect, which would be unprecedented and you know, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.560 maybe not a great look for the United States government 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.839 going into a new administration. But the reason that we 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.200 are here at this moment is because Trump was able 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:38.040 to delay the sentencing a couple of times before the election, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.680 and a lot of the legal experts have predicted that 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.120 when the sensing, if it goes forward, that he would 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.680 get a lot less than the maximum four years under 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.159 the law, just for various reasons like he's a first 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.440 time offender and the crimes are non violence and that 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.360 sort of thing. So in theory, Trump could have been 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.279 sentenced months ago and even served his sentence or even 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.200 got no time dis probations, and it all could been 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.839 done before the election, but the judge was worried that 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.040 any kind of sentence could impact the outcome of the election. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.160 That was his reason for delaying it the last time. 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:13.799 And Trump has really succeeded with his strategy of delay 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:19.160 in all his cases. What's happening with the Justice Department's 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.240 cases against him? Have those been dropped yet? 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.000 Right? So? Special Counsel Jack Smith, who brought the two 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.479 federal cases against Trump, it seems like the writing is 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.159 on the wall that those cases are going to have 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.600 to go away. The US Justice Department officials said that 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.880 they had asked and received a court order delaying all 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:42.120 deadlines in the election interference case while they consider exactly 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.600 what to do next. And of course there is a 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:49.760 longstanding DOJ policy against prosecuting or indicting sitting presidents, so 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.400 the expectation is that those cases are going to go away. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.440 The classified documents case in federal court in Florida, of course, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.400 was dismissed by a Trump appointed judge earlier this year, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.760 but the Justice Department has appealed that, and so it's 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.560 likely that that appeal would be dropped and that other 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.400 case dismissed as well. So yet, to the extent that 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.640 Trump thinks on this election victory making his extensive legal 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.560 troubles go away, that largely is a success. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.360 The Georgia election interference case is also on hold. It's 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.280 kind of amazing that he and his lawyers were able 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.680 to just freeze two federal cases and two state cases. 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:33.600 It's sort of mind boggling. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.200 I mean, he has a lot of lawyers, they have 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.440 some creative strategies. And of course, all along here Trump 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.640 was campaigning for the presidency, which gave him additional ways 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:50.120 to delay the cases from the proceedings. And in Georgia, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.640 of course, they were able to. It wasn't even really 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.080 Trump's false. So to say that that case got delayed 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.880 so much, I mean the district attorney there, Fannie Willison 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.880 Fulton County. The reason that case is the latest because 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.840 she had an affair with another person on one of 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.920 our investigators on the case, and Trump had moved to 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.200 have her disqualified, and an appeals court is eventually going 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.240 to have to decide that before that case can move 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:16.160 forward anymore. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.360 And so what the district attorney is suggesting here is 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.600 basically put it on hold and will sentence him after 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.040 his presidency is over. 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.840 Is that the implication, Well DA in Manhattan didn't explicitly 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.880 stable sentence him after the presidency is over, but more 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.240 just to put the entire case on hold yet. The 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.000 sentence thing is the next thing to come up here, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.600 But there could be additional arguments that could be made 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.600 once the case restarts theoretically after his term in office, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.240 around immunity or things like that. So not specifically saying 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.720 schedule a sentencing after his term in office is over, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.360 but just putting the whole case on hold and revisit 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:55.800 it later. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.760 The lawyer who represented him in the hush money case. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.319 Is he one of the lawyers that Trump is appointing 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:02.560 to the Justice Department? 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.400 Right? I think Todd Blanche has been nominated for Deputy 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.520 Attorney general position, if I'm remembered correctly. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.160 Yeah, that's right, and Blanche was a former federal prosecutor. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.480 He's also nominating his other defense lawyer in this case, 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:23.320 Emil Bove as principal Associate Attorney General, and the lawyer 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.120 who represented him in the presidential immunity case at the 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.920 Supreme Court has been chosen as the Uslicitor General. So 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.120 Trump's lawyers are getting plump positions in the Justice Department. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.959 Thanks so much, Eric, that's Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric Larson. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.360 It would be a historic crackdown on one of the 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.320 world's biggest tech companies. That is, if a judge agrees 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.720 to the Justice Department's proposal to sell Google's Chrome browser 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.959 as a remedy for his decision that the tech giant 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.680 illegally monopolized the search market, Federal anti trust enforcers will 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.920 ask Judge Ahmitt Meta to order Google to sell off 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:06.280 Chrome because, as the world's most popular web browser, it 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.480 represents a key access point through which many people use 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.640 its search engine. That's according to Bloomberg sources, it would 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.240 mark the biggest forced breakup of a US company since 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.240 AT and T was dismantled in nineteen eighty four. Joining 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.959 me is Bloomberg Anti trust reporter Leean Nylan Lea tell 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.280 us what you learned. The Justice Department is going to 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.920 be asking for as a remedy, although Google might view 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.720 it as a punishment for Google's violation of the antitrust laws. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.000 So the big headline is, the Justice Department is going 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.360 to propose that Google be forced to sell off Chrome, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.200 It's web browser, if some of the other things that 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.000 it is proposing to sort of increase competition in the 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.839 market aren't successful. So the other big things that it 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.480 really wants to do is force Google to license the 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.640 data this is called click and query data that underlies 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.520 its search results, as well as syndicate the search results 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.719 themselves to other companies and AI startups. The syndication is 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.360 supposed to sort of help other companies other search engines 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.520 sort of get better a lot more quickly because they'll 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.040 be able to rely on the same results that Google 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.080 does in its search engine. And then this underlying data, 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.560 the click and query data, can sort of help them 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.560 beef up their own systems to sort of make them 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.080 as good as the one that Google has itself, because 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.920 one of the main allegations in the complaint and that 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.520 the judge found was true in his opinion, is that 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.720 Google's conduct has led to such a situation that the 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.439 other search engines don't have the same level of quality 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.079 because Google just has so much more traffic than them. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.320 So this is a way to sort of get them 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.800 a lot of the same high quality results so that 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.160 they can improve their own systems to be as good 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.200 as Google. The other really big interesting thing is they 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.960 want to make some proposals that would limit a couple 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.199 of the things that Google is doing on artificial intelligence. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.600 So right now, companies can opt out of having their 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:06.720 website scraped and that data used in building Googles llm's 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.360 large language models which underlie its AI products, but they're 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.840 not allowed to, for example, opt out of the so 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.680 called aioverviews that appear at the top of a search 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.920 results page. So sometimes when you Google something, instead of 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.840 showing you the ten blue links, it just gives you 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.000 sort of like a summary at the top, and it's 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.040 been taking that summary using AI and sort of just 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.520 putting it there at the top, and oftentimes website publishers 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.920 have complained people don't click through. They just see that 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.439 AI summary and then you know, they have their answer 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.960 and they're done. And website publishers say that this is 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:40.880 problematic for them because they've been losing a lot of 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.440 traffic and therefore, you know, the advertising dollars that are 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.840 associated with that. So they really don't like the AI 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.080 overhus But Google right now doesn't give anybody a way 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.640 to opt out of that. So the Justice Apparent wants 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.800 to make it so that website publishers have a lot 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.360 more options for how their data is used by Google, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.760 in particular in its AI products. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.240 So the Justice Department is saying, we want to have 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:08.400 the option of having Google cell Chrome if we decide 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.440 that these other things aren't working. I mean, is the 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.440 government saying that decision should be up to us. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.079 We're not sure. The filing is supposed to come tomorrow, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.680 so we will find out exactly how they are proposing 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.320 that would work. But yes, you seem to sort of 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.880 be trying to keep this option of like having the 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.360 big sword over Google's head to make sure that it 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.800 complies with some of the other things that it wants 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.960 in this injunction. This is all very dependent on the judge, though, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.640 you know, the judge I'm at Meta is going to 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.440 have a remedy hearing in April to sort of hear 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.920 from witnesses a little bit about these options, and then 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.400 he will issue a decision sometimes next year. He said 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.560 he will have it out by August twenty twenty five 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.160 with his final decision on how Google should change its behavior. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.679 A lot of people think that the judge is really 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.480 not going to go for the breakup or the vestuture 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.280 option that the Justice Department has you know, hinted and 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.040 that we reported that they're going to propose, just because 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.160 it is a little bit more of a sort of 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.240 radical option. You know, the government hasn't actually broken up 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.600 a company since the AT and T case in nineteen 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.400 eighty four, and so you know, even though it had 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.400 wanted to break up Microsoft, it ended up, you know, 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.920 accepting some lesser changes instead of a breakup. So a 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.160 lot of people really think that Meta is not going 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:22.920 to go for this, so that this may be a 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.720 little bit of like a position that the Justice Department 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.160 is taking to sort of fear meta a little bit 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.120 more towards the middle ground, which is the you know, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:32.320 data licensing portion. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.520 What's left of Google if you force it to sell 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:36.840 off at search engine. 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.480 Well, they're not proposing that it be forced to sell 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.080 off the search engine, only Chrome the web browser. Oh, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.760 it would still have the search engine, it would still 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.200 have Android, the mobile operating system. It just would no 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.800 longer have a browser. And the browser has been a 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.000 very important sort of They call it a search access point, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.560 a way in which people access Google Search because it 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.640 is you know, tied into the browser. It automatically goes 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.160 to Google if you type something in and that it 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.040 has also been a pretty important feature for Google in 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.840 terms of if you're using Chrome and you are signed 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.080 into a Google account, it keeps a lot of information 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.760 about where you have visited and you know what other 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.520 Google services you use, you know, your YouTube history, all 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.600 of that information, and that is some of the details 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.640 in data that Google used to help target ads towards you. 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.440 So if Google no longer has this browser, this sort 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.800 of gateway that people use and helps them collect you know, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.080 data and information about people, it would be an important 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.280 blow to the company because you know, they do rely 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.840 on Chrome quite a bit for some of their other services. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.240 Actually, I think I might be confusing the browser and 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:46.280 the search engine. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.600 As you know, we actually went over this. This is 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.440 an early question of the trial. What is the difference 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.720 between a browser and the search engine. So the browser 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.240 is the thing that you use to access the internet, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.080 you know, it is the program where it has up 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.080 at the top and you can type in, you know, 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.400 HTTP whatever. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:01.720 You know. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.360 The first one was Internet Explorer, but Chrome, which was 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.720 introduced by Google in two thousand and eight, was very 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.440 innovative at the time because when it could remember a 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.320 lot of the website, so you oftentimes you don't have 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.880 to like type out the entire website like you did 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.720 in the past, you know, www dot New York Times 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.560 dot com. If you just start typing it, it says, oh, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.080 you want to go to New York Times and then 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.680 be there. The other thing is you can actually just 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.720 type a query in the web browser bar and it 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.960 will automatically take you to Google as though you were 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.120 using that as a search engine. And that was like 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.080 a pretty you know, unique invention at the time, back 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.560 in two thousand and eight. And that's a reason why 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.520 a lot of people do use Chrome, you know, because 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.160 it is integrated with Google. It's integrated with a lot 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.160 of Google cell their products so that it remembers. For example, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.240 you know, if you have searched for a recent location 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.440 on Google Maps, it remembers that, and it can be like, oh, 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.840 are you trying to go to this Italian restaurant you 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.480 went to last week or two weeks ago. So Chrome 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.480 has integrated a lot of Google services, is pretty useful. Now. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.880 Google likes to say, you know, Chrome is our product. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.080 The software underlying Chrome is actually an open source product. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.679 Anyone can use it, and a lot of the other browsers, 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.679 including Impact of Microsoft's Edge, are built on that open 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.520 source that Google made from Chrome. So Edge is based 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.439 on this open source Chromium. The one that Amazon has 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.760 built for the Fire device is called Silk, is also 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.800 built on that. So you know, they say Chrome doesn't 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.199 have very much value without you know, a lot of 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.600 the other Google data underlying it. We'll see, we'll see. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.000 You know, there are some people who might be very 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.800 willing to pay for Chrome. Our analyst here at BI 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.120 suggested that it might be worth as much as twenty 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.879 million dollars because of the number of people who use 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.040 that browser every day something like three billion daily active users. 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.600 And so you know, if another company could take it 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.399 and integrate it with their own services, it could be 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.080 pretty powerful. For example, if open ai wanted to have 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.360 a browser and sort of integrate it with its new 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.800 sort of burgeoning AI and search though its that might 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:07.240 be in a really interesting combination. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.000 But as you point out in your story, some of 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.480 the companies that might want to buy it, like Amazon, 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.560 are facing their own antitrust scrutiny. I mean, will it 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.440 go from one monopolist to another, or should I say 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:20.959 one mega company to another. 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.639 Yeah, that's definitely true. I mean the very first company 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.120 that somebody mentioned might want to buy it with Microsoft, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.439 and I was like, well, there's no way they're going 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.520 to let Microsoft buy this browser. Like one, Microsoft has 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.879 the second most use browser, and you got Microsoft in trouble, 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.560 like back in the day, right was the Internet Explorer browser. 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.480 So I really don't think we're going to go back 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.920 down the road of like giving Microsoft control of the browser. 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:45.720 What do you think. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.480 Google will be willing to or will be suggesting as 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:49.919 a remedy? 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.080 Do you have any idea just will be judge meta? 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.280 Yeah, Google has said, you know, if the judge has 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.359 a problem with these contracts, what they could do is 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.280 just it's the contracts, but eliminate their exclusive nature. So 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.840 he said it was a problem that Google was paying 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.760 you know, Apple, for example, twenty billion dollars a year 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.159 to be the exclusive search default. Okay, maybe they're no 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.520 longer going to be paid to be the exclusive Maybe 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.640 they'll now just pay for whatever searches are sent by 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.280 Apple to Google, and then everybody else can pay because 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.359 other companies do pay to sort of appear on you know, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.960 when you open up a browser window in Safari, you 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.640 sometimes see you know, you can go to Microsoft thing, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.840 you can go to Yahoo, you can go to Wikipedia. 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.520 All those things those companies actually pay for that placement. 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.080 So maybe everybody just pays for whatever traffic is being 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:46.200 sent to them through the browser or you know, Apple users, 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.440 instead of having it be an exclusive devolve. The government, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.960 of course, isn't thrilled with just that change, because you know, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.040 their argument is Google has benefited from having these contracts 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.720 for so long. You can't just now say, you know, 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.639 go orhm to no more. You have to sort of 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.280 fix the market that has been sort of distorted by 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.960 Google's conduct having these illegal contracts for so long. So 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.199 Google is really going to be pushing to sort of 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.760 limit this as much as possible, maybe make it just 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.440 about the contracts, whereas the government is going to say, yeah, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.640 we need to change the contracts, but we need all 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:21.760 these other things as well. 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.720 And most people you spoke to thought that Judge Meta 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.479 wouldn't go as far as you said at and T 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.080 was the last time there was a government ordered breakup 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.640 of a company, that Judge Meta wouldn't go so far 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:35.399 as to order that. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.840 Yeah, a lot of people have said, you know, even 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.639 since his decision in August, that they really think that 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.960 he's not going to go for a breakup. I mean, 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.439