Speaker 1: Welcome to Go Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio Hi and Ali
Speaker 1: Wentworth And you're listening to Go Ask Alli. Where this
Speaker 1: part of the season, I'm asking how do you grow
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship with yourself with a spouse, sibling, hell
Speaker 1: even your bartender. In this episode, I'm talking about how
Speaker 1: to grow relationship with our mortality. My guest is my
Speaker 1: friend Annabelle Gerwich, who has an incredible new book out,
Speaker 1: You're Leaving When Adventures in Downward Mobility Now. After writing
Speaker 1: this book, annabel went to get a COVID test, which
Speaker 1: led to a diagnosis of stage four lung cancer. She
Speaker 1: has much to say about how she views her life now.
Speaker 1: Annabelle is a New York Times bestselling author. She has
Speaker 1: published a number of books including I See You Made
Speaker 1: An Effort and Wherever You Go, There You Are stories
Speaker 1: about my family you might relate to. She's an activist
Speaker 1: and actress. She is most recognizable as one of the
Speaker 1: original hosts from the previous TBS hit show Dinner in
Speaker 1: a Movie. Her other acting credits include Seinfeld, Dexter, Daddy Daycare,
Speaker 1: and Melvin Goes to Dinner. Finally, She is a co
Speaker 1: host of the podcast Tiny Victories. I've always loved Annabelle's writing,
Speaker 1: especially her candor and her ability to find the funding
Speaker 1: and even the most serious life altering scenarios. Just don't
Speaker 1: expect her to run a marathon. Please enjoy my very
Speaker 1: candid conversation with Annabelle Garwich. Let me just start with
Speaker 1: this three day podcast because it's people should drink a
Speaker 1: lot of coffee because this won't end. But so, you're
Speaker 1: divorced and empty nester and a creative person in a pandemic.
Speaker 1: You also recently found out that you have staged for
Speaker 1: lung cancer, which that's a biggie. Yeah, that's bigger than divorced.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Yeah. The beginning of this new book of
Speaker 1: mine that you're leaving when, which you helped inspire, But
Speaker 1: the first line of the book was meant as a satire.
Speaker 1: It was the worst of times. It was the worst
Speaker 1: of times. That might have been a mistake to write that,
Speaker 1: because the thing about the the diagnosis that I got
Speaker 1: during COVID was that I don't have symptoms, I don't
Speaker 1: feel badly. I just have this terrible, life threatening disease
Speaker 1: that I didn't know about which was like when people say, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow,
Speaker 1: like the bus hit you know, but it's a very
Speaker 1: slow moving bus. And it's just something I have to
Speaker 1: live with now. So you know, in this season, I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with growing relationships and with you, I think it's
Speaker 1: about growing a relationship with your mortality, because your whole
Speaker 1: book deals with different versions of that of as as
Speaker 1: I like to say, the back nine of our lives.
Speaker 1: And so I think we're going to start with the
Speaker 1: stage four lung cancer because we did and because it
Speaker 1: is almost unfathomable to most people. So you had a
Speaker 1: consistent cough, am I right? Yeah? But I mean like
Speaker 1: it was Ali. It was like, I mean, you, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking and you're not going to hear me
Speaker 1: cough because it's not like I'm coughing all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just assumed it was acid reflux. And
Speaker 1: Ezra my my college graduate class of COVID kid, they
Speaker 1: are a non binary person. Now, I think this is
Speaker 1: something that I wrote about in the book about adjusting
Speaker 1: when your kid changes gender identification. Just one more adaptation
Speaker 1: of of this back nine life. And you know, we
Speaker 1: Ezra had come home from college and we had quarantined
Speaker 1: and we were just getting a COVID test. And the
Speaker 1: really crazy thing is that we went to Okay, now
Speaker 1: I'm gonna oh, now you're going to call through the
Speaker 1: whole fucking podcast of the whole fucking thing. H we
Speaker 1: went through. We we went to Dodger Stadium, our local
Speaker 1: like city testing thing. The line was too long. Then
Speaker 1: we we were going to go to my g P,
Speaker 1: but they weren't doing testing. So the chances of this
Speaker 1: even happening, of getting this diagnosis were so slim because
Speaker 1: we just ended up at this urgent care where this
Speaker 1: doctor talked me into getting an X ray and just
Speaker 1: based on the fact that when they before you have
Speaker 1: the COVID test, they say do you have any symptoms?
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I have a little cough, but
Speaker 1: who doesn't you know? And I thought he was you
Speaker 1: know when you're at a makeup counter and they give
Speaker 1: you the upsell what you really need is the expensive
Speaker 1: moisturizer and then they don't stop. So I thought it
Speaker 1: was an upsell, and so I agreed to this X
Speaker 1: ray just to like, Okay, let's get out of here.
Speaker 1: He was just not quitting, you know. I mean we're
Speaker 1: at a mini mall next to a trader Joe's. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is I don't I never thought that those people
Speaker 1: were actually doctors, like in those urgent cares. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, well, it's l a. They were probably actors too. Well.
Speaker 1: Once we went to an urgent care on Halloween for
Speaker 1: my kid to like cut their finger, and the doctor
Speaker 1: I'm saying that with like air quotes, had a like
Speaker 1: a hatchet, like you know, like like a costume with
Speaker 1: a hatchet stuck in his head. I mean that's what
Speaker 1: I think of urgent care doctors, right. So I mean, anyway,
Speaker 1: so get the sex ray. He says, oh, you're fine,
Speaker 1: and we go on our way. My car breaks down
Speaker 1: on the freeway and then we're in like a zombie
Speaker 1: apocalypse movie because Triple A is not coming, and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: I guess Triple A doesn't come during a pandemic. We're
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. The phone rings and
Speaker 1: it's the doctor from the urgent care saying I've made
Speaker 1: a mistake. You actually have a mass on your lung
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, And on the side of a freeway with
Speaker 1: a broken down car and what, well, it depends on
Speaker 1: the freeway. What freeway was it? Okay, we're on the
Speaker 1: the Foothill Freeway, which is in like it's like we're
Speaker 1: on this part where there's nothing. There's just a nothingness there.
Speaker 1: So I felt like I was in one of those like, um,
Speaker 1: not like a Tarantino movie, like you're something bad's going
Speaker 1: to happen at the side of that road. So well
Speaker 1: usually it does, by the way, Yes, and luckily that
Speaker 1: didn't happen, But no, you just were told you had
Speaker 1: a mass on your lungs. Just that. But you know,
Speaker 1: then I went through these months of like, maybe it's
Speaker 1: a walking pneumonia or something called valley fever, And then
Speaker 1: I was convinced and the doctor that I was with
Speaker 1: at the time, because we hadn't done a biopsy in
Speaker 1: these other further tests, we thought it was maybe that
Speaker 1: I was using this facial toner that has castor oil
Speaker 1: in it, which can store in your lungs. And I
Speaker 1: was like, wouldn't that be just like me, my vanity
Speaker 1: has given me an infection. We thought I had an
Speaker 1: infection in my But who came up with that ridiculous
Speaker 1: aypothesis me, no, but no, but he had said to me,
Speaker 1: have you been eating castor oil? And I'm like no.
Speaker 1: But then I happened to look at this facial miss
Speaker 1: and I saw it had castor oil in it. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is this is the thought of a desperate person.
Speaker 1: I understand, you're literally clinging, clinging to the vines of life, right,
Speaker 1: And so then you know, three months into it, I
Speaker 1: get this diagnosis, after this biopsy and all this, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's a life changing thing. And I you know, again,
Speaker 1: maybe not a good idea in the book. I have
Speaker 1: this line and something I've always said, like, oh please,
Speaker 1: don't tell me that cancer is a gift or the
Speaker 1: universe is doing something for me. But I have taken
Speaker 1: this opportunity to ask myself, you know, Okay, how long
Speaker 1: am I going to live? So how am I going
Speaker 1: to live? How? How am I going to have a
Speaker 1: happier life? I mean, just why not? This is just
Speaker 1: the way it is. I am alone at home with
Speaker 1: cancer and kittens. It's sort of like the worst nightmare
Speaker 1: of like Spinster Heaven, you know, And I've embraced it.
Speaker 1: I'm like Spinster strong. Yeah, yeah, good, well by the
Speaker 1: way your next book should be called Cancer and Kittens
Speaker 1: because it's it's dark, but then there's something cute while
Speaker 1: kittens are magic. Everybody knows that. Yes, Okay, so what
Speaker 1: was the first thing that went through your head? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, it was like the worst of the
Speaker 1: worst case of like that phone call was on a
Speaker 1: speaker phone in front of Ezra. Right. I never would
Speaker 1: have you know, you just want to protect your kid,
Speaker 1: and I would have wanted to find a way, but
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, just right out there, so that
Speaker 1: wasn't a possibility. And then I was, of course just
Speaker 1: in this sort of emotional free fall, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I was I'm really lucky my sister came out. And
Speaker 1: my sister has never seen a problem. She didn't have
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet for like, she's a mission driven person and
Speaker 1: this is just the kind of mission you know, she
Speaker 1: could step into. Because I was just I was a wreck.
Speaker 1: I was just going from like course yeah zero to panic.
Speaker 1: Meals were falling by that. I just could barely function,
Speaker 1: you know. So of course I have to say when
Speaker 1: she told me she was coming out, she's said the
Speaker 1: three scariest words someone in your family can say to
Speaker 1: you you're adopted one way ticket. She had gotten a
Speaker 1: one way ticket to come visit that has layers of
Speaker 1: well crazy meaning to us. That really scared me because
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, fuck, this this is serious, Like she's
Speaker 1: just coming out for possibly forever. But she was like
Speaker 1: a Mary Poppins of like my sister's, like a sainted person.
Speaker 1: She was getting up at five am, starting running her
Speaker 1: business and then cooking for us, and she just gave
Speaker 1: this layer, you know, of stability to the household, and
Speaker 1: you know, it was life saving and it was hard
Speaker 1: for me. And then other friends started helping to of
Speaker 1: just calling me, going for a walk with me and
Speaker 1: just you know, um, this is really tells you something
Speaker 1: about me, Like I don't like to cook, but so
Speaker 1: I don't borrow a cup of sugar from my neighbors.
Speaker 1: But my neighbors were doing things like leaving a glass
Speaker 1: of wine for me in the shrubbery in front of
Speaker 1: my house. My doctor said I could have a glass
Speaker 1: of wine, and you were like like on lockdown here.
Speaker 1: So I would text my neighbor Barbara and say, hey,
Speaker 1: what what do you have open tonight? And she would
Speaker 1: like not the bottle. I think they were worried about
Speaker 1: me A glass and actual just glass of wine sitting
Speaker 1: in the shrubbery. I mean, that's amazing, But it was
Speaker 1: hard for me to actually accept help, Like I don't
Speaker 1: I don't like to be that person. I want to
Speaker 1: be the person to rush in and make things more chaotic,
Speaker 1: was as it sometimes it happens. But didn't it feel good?
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't you feel love and and warmth and
Speaker 1: not so alone? Not at first? Not at first. At first,
Speaker 1: I just felt just felt like a failure. And if
Speaker 1: I could say to anyone any advice, just yet accept it,
Speaker 1: just say thank you. You know. I just felt so embarrassed,
Speaker 1: like I had failed that I needed help. And also
Speaker 1: people say things to you in order to help you,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to hear them. More people don't know
Speaker 1: what to say, so that becomes a thing, you know,
Speaker 1: And you know, in the New York Times, I wrote
Speaker 1: about my friend who was just kept wanting me to
Speaker 1: make juice and got me this juicer and its like
Speaker 1: the loveliest thing. But like I just didn't want one
Speaker 1: more thing to have to do, you know. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to be someone's cancer warrior. I have a
Speaker 1: very very good friend who I held her hand during
Speaker 1: a very scary cancer scare in her stomach, and she's
Speaker 1: a survivor, but she was bombarded with all that advice
Speaker 1: to It was like every day somebody said something out
Speaker 1: of some aspirational calendar that you didn't know what to
Speaker 1: do with, or you know, people would send her a
Speaker 1: kite and be like fly high, you know, just all
Speaker 1: this crap. And I said to her, what is it,
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, what do you miss? What do you want?
Speaker 1: Because she didn't want to tune a cast role and
Speaker 1: she didn't want me, you know, crying at her feet
Speaker 1: telling her buck Choy is supposed to you know, none
Speaker 1: of it. It's hard, you know, it's hard because you
Speaker 1: feel like people are meaning so well, and uh, you
Speaker 1: don't want to not except that. Once I got over that.
Speaker 1: But there was a point where, um my sister, I
Speaker 1: think it was two months in and it was kind
Speaker 1: of near the time where we decided I was okay
Speaker 1: for her to go back to New York. And this
Speaker 1: was maybe a sign. She said, Okay, tonight, I'm making
Speaker 1: turkey and zucchini loaf. And I went, I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I am so sorry. I am so sorry.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would love that. And she's like,
Speaker 1: what I said, listen, I have cancer. Do I really
Speaker 1: have to have turkey and zucchini loaf? Because that sounds
Speaker 1: like a punishment. Can't we just order in sushi? Like
Speaker 1: I just want sushi? She was like, well, of course,
Speaker 1: but it's so hard to say what you need. And
Speaker 1: you know, actually, one of the things that is, you know,
Speaker 1: a strategy of coping with this is I have become
Speaker 1: a little bit better at saying no, great, you know,
Speaker 1: yes of like things that work for me, things that
Speaker 1: don't work for me, How I want to spend my time,
Speaker 1: how I don't want to spend my time. I think
Speaker 1: that's really hard for women. I think that's really hard,
Speaker 1: nearly impossible, and I struggle with it every day. I
Speaker 1: say yes to everything. I just want to say that
Speaker 1: yesterday I drove my child's roommates cat to the vet.
Speaker 1: So as I say this, I am not saying I've
Speaker 1: got this day completely full of ship, full of ship.
Speaker 1: But you love animals, let's put it in that category. Well,
Speaker 1: I also I love my kid. So was there anything
Speaker 1: anybody said that actually helped following your diagnosis? I did
Speaker 1: get some great advice about the cancer thing and things
Speaker 1: that people say to you from Caitlin Flanagin, who writes
Speaker 1: for the Atlantic. So, Caitlin has had stage four breast
Speaker 1: cancer for like seventeen years. It's you know, she's an
Speaker 1: amazing person that she has continued to live her life
Speaker 1: and she's a mom of two. Anyway, she I called
Speaker 1: her near the very beginning because people were telling me
Speaker 1: I had to eat raw foods, I had to eat
Speaker 1: this rare vegetable. I should go see a psychic surgeon.
Speaker 1: I you know, there was one very close friend of
Speaker 1: mine set to me before I got the diagnosis. You know,
Speaker 1: you know your body better than anyone else. Do you
Speaker 1: think you have cancer? Are you really like I do? What? So? Wow?
Speaker 1: Well people, but and she said it out of love,
Speaker 1: of course, a total love. So Caitlin said to me,
Speaker 1: she said, Annabelle, you don't have to eat raw food,
Speaker 1: you don't have to juice, you don't have to think
Speaker 1: positive thoughts, you don't have to sacrifice a virgin in
Speaker 1: a volcano. Go to your doctor's appointments and take the
Speaker 1: fucking pills. Just do what they say. And it's just
Speaker 1: like freed me to say I'm gonna do this in
Speaker 1: a way that you know works for me. I do
Speaker 1: feel like a sense of humor is if saving grace,
Speaker 1: because it did kick in for me, this sort of
Speaker 1: shifting of the mind thing where I used to say, like, gosh,
Speaker 1: you know, if I ever get cancer, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be the person who you know, she had cancer
Speaker 1: and she ran a marathon. Like I want to be
Speaker 1: the person who has cancer and doesn't run a marathon.
Speaker 1: Like I just like, do I have to work that hard? No,
Speaker 1: it's the best excuse not to run a marathon, you know.
Speaker 1: But there's this funny thing about we we reward a
Speaker 1: certain kind of behavior that we think is laudable. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not great to run a marathon.
Speaker 1: Really it's fantastic. But there's like, you know, you can
Speaker 1: see and everyone sent me. There's like Ted Ted talks
Speaker 1: and I got I got a thousand links to them.
Speaker 1: I had cancer, I ran a marathon, and everyone collapse.
Speaker 1: If I ever do the talk, I will do the
Speaker 1: I had cancer and I tried to live a normal
Speaker 1: life every day and I'm sort of a joke I'm
Speaker 1: going to not run. But it's proved to be the
Speaker 1: thing that I feel has been the most important thing
Speaker 1: to me. And it's one of these coping mechanisms of
Speaker 1: how do I get through this cancer, how do I
Speaker 1: get through this COVID Which has been something that I've
Speaker 1: never really liked in my life, which is to really
Speaker 1: invest in my quality of daily living. I'm much more
Speaker 1: of a person like I. I get excited about a destination.
Speaker 1: I love doing a book tour, I love, you know,
Speaker 1: performing and doing just but like I have to try
Speaker 1: to make every day work on my daily living, like
Speaker 1: the daily strategies of living, making that be valuable because
Speaker 1: that's where we're at in COVID. All these things that
Speaker 1: I realized, I've learned exactly how much of a social
Speaker 1: person I really am. In fact, in the book I
Speaker 1: write about this that right at the time that COVID hit,
Speaker 1: I was really feeling good about the way I designed
Speaker 1: my life post marriage. I have a shared writing office
Speaker 1: so I can have water cooler conversations. I was doing
Speaker 1: these open houses where I'd invite writers to come to
Speaker 1: my house. I'd say that my house is open from
Speaker 1: seven to ten. There's tea and snacks if you want it,
Speaker 1: and it's a quiet room and we just pick a
Speaker 1: spot and write, and which is so lovely. I loved
Speaker 1: that idea, you know what. It was like this great
Speaker 1: way to get myself to work. And it's just one
Speaker 1: of my community things. I volunteer at the high school.
Speaker 1: And then of course they all fell away, you know
Speaker 1: in COVID. So then I started this writer's writing alone
Speaker 1: together community like I had in my living room on zoom.
Speaker 1: And this is a really nutty thing, but you know,
Speaker 1: every day there'd be like, uh, someone from Florida, someone
Speaker 1: from Chicago, and friends were telling friends and people on
Speaker 1: social media. There was just one thing you're supposed to
Speaker 1: just be writing and it really helped. But it was funny.
Speaker 1: There was one person I don't know who she is,
Speaker 1: I've never met her. She would write and then fold
Speaker 1: laundry and I didn't have the heart to say ron zoom. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just started to think of it like it was comforting.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, look it's Dagas the lawn dress
Speaker 1: in my on my zoom screen, Like this was one
Speaker 1: of my little adaptations. Well isn't it funny how we
Speaker 1: all find our little things. There's a lot more to
Speaker 1: come after the short break and we're back with more.
Speaker 1: Go ask Alley. There must be things that you've sort
Speaker 1: of consciously tried to work on to help you get through.
Speaker 1: One of the things I've had to really think about
Speaker 1: during this time is becoming more flexible. Like I'm a
Speaker 1: person who really likes routine, and I like that because
Speaker 1: without it, I just kind of just fall apart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I liked being and this was I don't know
Speaker 1: if you feel this way, Ali, but being an act
Speaker 1: tris worked for me in those years of that career.
Speaker 1: I actually loved having people tell me where to go
Speaker 1: and what to do and what to say. There was
Speaker 1: a part of me that just found that so relaxing. Wow,
Speaker 1: I was the opposite. I was. I was the girl
Speaker 1: who was and maybe that was the writer of me
Speaker 1: that was saying, you know, what would be a funnierline,
Speaker 1: You know, it would be better if I popped out
Speaker 1: from behind the desk and then a little bit of like,
Speaker 1: don't tell me what to do? You sound like my mother.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just a layer of issues, you know what.
Speaker 1: Comedy writers and directors don't always enjoy someone who tells
Speaker 1: them how their line is going to be. Funnier. That's
Speaker 1: not what they'll tell you. One thing, my husband, George Stephanopolis,
Speaker 1: is you know, a brilliant man, not known for his comedy.
Speaker 1: And very early in our marriage, I said, this is
Speaker 1: what you're never allowed to say to me, you know
Speaker 1: what would be funnier. So I will never say to you,
Speaker 1: do you know what would be a more interesting question?
Speaker 1: For bid laden? Like I'll never say kind of that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff? Do you like stay in your land? Yes?
Speaker 1: And it was very helpful in our marriage that one
Speaker 1: thing to not say, yeah, that's just not happening. But
Speaker 1: you know, I started to say something about flexibility and
Speaker 1: and and and being a rigid person who likes to
Speaker 1: stick to a schedule. That has been something it's been
Speaker 1: really interesting to note during this time. Like normally I,
Speaker 1: in normal world, I do like to have a very
Speaker 1: specific schedule. I have found that this COVID isolation, stay
Speaker 1: at home thing has required me to be more flexible
Speaker 1: and to say like, oh, you know, things stopped working,
Speaker 1: like there's different stages of the pandemic. Like you know,
Speaker 1: everyone was like sour dough bread, I'm gonna bake sat
Speaker 1: I did not get into that, but you know, most
Speaker 1: people did did your garden? Did you make a vegetable garden?
Speaker 1: I didn't make a vegetable garden, because that would have
Speaker 1: been useful. What I did do was I got and
Speaker 1: everyone on my block was doing this. It was like
Speaker 1: it swept through. We all started making rock gardens. So
Speaker 1: I was this is gonna sound a little nuts. I
Speaker 1: was going to these like dumpsters in front of people's houses,
Speaker 1: getting in, salvaging broken concrete and then mixing them with
Speaker 1: rocks in the front yard. As it was like, Mom,
Speaker 1: it's like you're you're in a prison quarry. Because I
Speaker 1: would just like work on this for hours a day,
Speaker 1: and I just want to say, in retrospect now that
Speaker 1: I see it, I'm not sure I have improved the
Speaker 1: value of my home. That might appeal to somebody. I'm not.
Speaker 1: You don't know sure about you don't know it's an aesthetic. Well,
Speaker 1: and then I just couldn't stand to see another rock,
Speaker 1: like do you know? And then I have this daily
Speaker 1: writer zoom, and I was working like ten hours a day,
Speaker 1: and I was feeling really productive. And then I hit
Speaker 1: a point where and I'm at this point now where
Speaker 1: working all day was just depressing me. And so my
Speaker 1: new phase of the pandemic that I'm in is I
Speaker 1: have to have more playtime. And I really mean like playtimes.
Speaker 1: So two of my long time friends I don't want
Speaker 1: to say oldest because we're already old enough. We are
Speaker 1: taking ukulele lessons on Zoom. They're in New York. Why ukulele? Okay,
Speaker 1: we wanted to do something. One of my friends suggest
Speaker 1: that we do the accordion. I'm like, that's hard and expensive,
Speaker 1: Like accordions are really expensive and it's really hard. So
Speaker 1: all three of us like, what can we do? What
Speaker 1: do we all have? And we all have kids, so
Speaker 1: we all have a ukulele because somehow or another, children
Speaker 1: just end up with ukuleles and reporters. I feel like
Speaker 1: we have orders, right, So we are okay, we all
Speaker 1: have yukes. We meet once a week on Zoom, and
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about it is we suck. We're
Speaker 1: never forming a band. By the way, I assumed that, Okay,
Speaker 1: I to say anything. I assumed you sucked until you
Speaker 1: told me otherwise. At first, we were like we were
Speaker 1: just kind of got a little intoxicated, like we're going
Speaker 1: to have like a band, We're going to get a band.
Speaker 1: We're three Jews and and three Yukes and we're gonna
Speaker 1: go out and we're gonna tour. And we were like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna learn R E M songs. That was our first.
Speaker 1: We're working on You Are My Sunshine and Twinkle Twinkle
Speaker 1: It's and that'll take like five years to prob like
Speaker 1: it's And you know, one of my friends is that
Speaker 1: Jessica heck Too, actually a brilliant actress. She she might
Speaker 1: be a little worse than me on this on the Yuk.
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to say ay thing you
Speaker 1: take pride and saying that publicly. Yes, well, because she's
Speaker 1: so accomplished as a performer, and I let's spring her
Speaker 1: down a notch. I guess. We just laugh. We laugh,
Speaker 1: and we're like the whole world stops. We're playing the youth.
Speaker 1: We're together and that you know, because of this diagnosis,
Speaker 1: it's really important to catch up with friends, and that's
Speaker 1: been a really important thing. There's a sometimes I get
Speaker 1: overwhelmed with emotion of like just um, like gratitude of
Speaker 1: like oh my god, I love you. We've had all
Speaker 1: these memories. I can get very even just talking about it,
Speaker 1: like sentimental because you get this kind of diagnosis and
Speaker 1: you feel like time is even more precious, right. So, Um,
Speaker 1: the thing about the youth class is we're all together,
Speaker 1: but we're not talking about our lives. We're not talking
Speaker 1: about even just like rehashing the day or things that
Speaker 1: are going on. We're just focused on an activity together.
Speaker 1: And this focus is relaxing and it's really fun and
Speaker 1: it and it doesn't tread into the territory that has
Speaker 1: an emotional content to it, So it's just joyful. What
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing from you is that, Yeah, what's working
Speaker 1: for you right now is to actually do things that
Speaker 1: have distraction so that you can actually enjoy life a
Speaker 1: little bit and not be in the muck and mire
Speaker 1: of of cancer. Yeah, pockets of time that are distinct
Speaker 1: from the oh, the issues of the day. And in
Speaker 1: some sense, you know, that's that's what's called a liminal space. Right.
Speaker 1: And also there are things I can do with people, um,
Speaker 1: kinds of engagement that I just really need that. Can
Speaker 1: I ask you? You are divorced. You seemed, based on
Speaker 1: your book to have a pretty amicable breakup. Has that
Speaker 1: changed your relationship with your acts when you got the
Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis. I wanna just say in the You're Leaving
Speaker 1: When book, it's it's not a divorce book, not at all,
Speaker 1: And that's very not at all. Yeah, it's a post,
Speaker 1: it's a post, definitely, it's life. And I did that
Speaker 1: specifically because first of all, we're not actually divorced yet.
Speaker 1: Oh we have been, you know. And the issue was
Speaker 1: health insurance. We are still working out are things and
Speaker 1: like so many people in this country, it was the
Speaker 1: health insurance, uh that has been keeping us together. But
Speaker 1: we are we are making this division now. You know.
Speaker 1: It's fun in a pandemic go to mediation divorce on
Speaker 1: a zoom. It's it's a little nuts. But I didn't
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to write about that. I feel
Speaker 1: like I need to wait a certain amount of time now.
Speaker 1: I wrote about the cancer diagnosis during COVID in the
Speaker 1: New York Times because I wanted to do two things.
Speaker 1: I wanted to encourage anyone that had any kind of
Speaker 1: symptoms to not think of putting off going to the doctor,
Speaker 1: which was very smart. And I wanted to also bring
Speaker 1: attention to this chronic illness cost in America because there
Speaker 1: are going to be long haulers and other people like me.
Speaker 1: They've been dealing with these kind of things for a
Speaker 1: long time, this issue of how do you afford that?
Speaker 1: In America, this is the largest source of bankruptcy is
Speaker 1: medical bills. So I wrote that, but I don't usually
Speaker 1: write about things for a few years. I want to
Speaker 1: process them. And because I'm not actually divorced, and I
Speaker 1: just that's actually too emotional for me to write about.
Speaker 1: And and it is in some sense. I mean, it
Speaker 1: has been as amicable as it can be, but it's hard.
Speaker 1: Two decades of marriage. It's really hard. And not just
Speaker 1: as you say, as you say in your book, you're
Speaker 1: like the show is over. We closed the show, right,
Speaker 1: and you know, when this diagnosis came, my X would
Speaker 1: would like to be supportive of me. And the interesting
Speaker 1: thing I've found is I've had to sort of draw
Speaker 1: a line in the sand. Though I don't feel like
Speaker 1: it's good for me to be asking too much, really
Speaker 1: asking much at all, because that's my past life and
Speaker 1: that's not going to be healthy for me. Like, just
Speaker 1: that takes a lot of strength. My friend, well, I
Speaker 1: just can't. I just can't do it. Are you online
Speaker 1: dating at all? Right? Now? That's funny you should mention
Speaker 1: that I know, but I went to the online Jewish
Speaker 1: virtual speed dating event that's called the Mats of Ball,
Speaker 1: And I know there's two kinds of mats of balls.
Speaker 1: There's sinkers and floaters. This was definitely a sinker. But
Speaker 1: you're open to it. You're open to it, right, you know?
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not really interested in online dating, so
Speaker 1: it's not really for me. But are you open to
Speaker 1: pleasure post cancer diagnosis? Can you go there? Can you
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, I'm going to take out
Speaker 1: the vibrator, I enjoy a little fun today? Or are
Speaker 1: you like no, yeah, yeah I I And I wrote
Speaker 1: about this because I just felt like and not enough
Speaker 1: people were talking about the search for lou Are you
Speaker 1: going to vaginal atrophies? Yes, you are, By the way,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. And I I
Speaker 1: will publicly say that my vagina is still okay and
Speaker 1: intact and and getting good use good for you. But
Speaker 1: I have friends that complain about pain and dryness and
Speaker 1: and so when you talk about the Mona Lisa procedure,
Speaker 1: it is something that my gynecologist has tried to push
Speaker 1: me on the way every time I get my moulds checked.
Speaker 1: They want me to get jubiterm and I'm like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, but you right, so wonderfully visual about issues
Speaker 1: with the vagina. But this one procedure, which I think
Speaker 1: is supposed to plump it up. So tell me, tell
Speaker 1: me about is your vagina awake now, Annabelle, it's right now.
Speaker 1: I really don't know how it's doing. I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about cancer. But before then, I did do this Mona
Speaker 1: Lisa thing, and I'm just gonna trying to find the
Speaker 1: right lube at a certain age. That's something I've never
Speaker 1: seen in a movie, Like you know, I just love
Speaker 1: I mean, I love seeing films with women at a
Speaker 1: certain age having sex. But every time I see these movies,
Speaker 1: I'm like, where is the moment where they're like, she's
Speaker 1: got like an arsenal like I have. Now it's like
Speaker 1: I'm preparing for the end of the world loopocalypse. I've
Speaker 1: got a stash of lubes, but it wasn't actually working.
Speaker 1: So I did sign up for this Mona Lisa thing.
Speaker 1: And by the way, wouldn't it be great in an
Speaker 1: unmarried woman if Jill Clayburg pulled out a bottle of
Speaker 1: coconut oil. Yes, yes, we need to normalize it. Let's
Speaker 1: do it. We're yeah, we're gonna We're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do well. But part of the thing I,
Speaker 1: you know, write about is this like, oh, everybody knows
Speaker 1: se alis. You've seen those bathtubs on posters. There's commercials
Speaker 1: for a rectile dysfunction, which, by the way, again like, okay,
Speaker 1: a rectile dysfunction. It's the butt of jokes Viagra who
Speaker 1: came up with the term vaginal atrophy? Like what kind
Speaker 1: of punishment is that? It sounds like, you know, my
Speaker 1: vagina has fallen and it can't get up. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like it's not it's just well worse. Your vagina
Speaker 1: is dead. Is it died? Yes, yes, and it's it's horrible.
Speaker 1: They could have called it vaginal dysfunction. Would have been better.
Speaker 1: Then I'll take. And again, no one had know what
Speaker 1: I knew, had talked to me about this, and so
Speaker 1: I go, I sign up with my doctor for this.
Speaker 1: And in the fertility area there's orchids and couches and families.
Speaker 1: I was like they were having picnics. It's like this
Speaker 1: happy scene of like beautiful light streaming in and they
Speaker 1: I check in for the Mona Lisa, and they send
Speaker 1: me to this darkened room with high wingback chairs and
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, black and white photographs of like sand
Speaker 1: dunes where the dead vaginas go. And then of course
Speaker 1: they call it the Mona Lisa, which is just a
Speaker 1: terrible appropriation of great arts. As if Mona Lisa the
Speaker 1: only thing she could be sort of smiling about is
Speaker 1: that her vagina is working. A again, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: all an outrage. It's just talking about it makes me
Speaker 1: so angry. And then it was a little uncomfortable, but
Speaker 1: you know what, it did work. It did work. It
Speaker 1: did work. Are you getting kicked back for this? No? No,
Speaker 1: I am not. I should. I should Again, it's expensive
Speaker 1: and again it's like it's one of those things that's
Speaker 1: so unfair, which is that viagra and sais they have
Speaker 1: codes so they can be covered by your insurance. Is
Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa covered? Do I even have to ask that?
Speaker 1: Of course not. It costs so much more for women.
Speaker 1: But it did actually plump it up. And I mean
Speaker 1: that's the problem is the vaginal walls get thinner as
Speaker 1: you get older, and if you have sex regularly, then
Speaker 1: it maintains its tone or it's like working out, you know,
Speaker 1: or isn't it like driving an Alfa Romeo, Like if
Speaker 1: you leave it in the garage for too long, it
Speaker 1: won't start up. But if you drive it a lot, right,
Speaker 1: very you know, it requires attention, right, so maintenance, maintenance.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so but it actually worked. And so your
Speaker 1: your vagina is alive, now alive, and well it's alive,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's yes, yes, it has been resuscitated. Good.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break. Welcome back with more go
Speaker 1: ask Alley. Well, I'm always happy to know that your
Speaker 1: vagina is intact. But how is your care been? I
Speaker 1: mean what it's what has it been like dealing with
Speaker 1: doctors and needing serious care? You know? Uh yeah. One
Speaker 1: of the you know, odd things about and the kind
Speaker 1: of amazing things about where science is at is um
Speaker 1: there's the the medication that I'm taking for the most
Speaker 1: part don't have side effects that you can see, and
Speaker 1: so like I have my hair. There's a little bit
Speaker 1: of hair loss, but I have my hair, and I
Speaker 1: have energy. There's some just some odd things about like
Speaker 1: some like little rashes or sometimes a little bit of nausea,
Speaker 1: but it's really amazing. But there have been moments when
Speaker 1: I've found myself saying, well, I'm I'm sorry I don't
Speaker 1: look sick enough for you. It's I mean, Jesus, people
Speaker 1: have an expectation of how a person with cancer or
Speaker 1: a disease looks. There's saying and I'm going to get
Speaker 1: it wrong about like you don't know what path someone
Speaker 1: has been walking, you know, And that's sort of a
Speaker 1: call to empathy, right because when you when you see
Speaker 1: a stranger, where you see someone having a hard time,
Speaker 1: you don't actually know the circumstances of their life. And
Speaker 1: this is what a person living with a chronic disease
Speaker 1: can look like. And that's me So people's appearances really
Speaker 1: belie what they're going through. And it's also one of
Speaker 1: those things of like during COVID people look like they're healthy,
Speaker 1: but we don't know and you know, like you can
Speaker 1: be asymptomatic. It's it's not a bad thing to remember
Speaker 1: on a on a on a level of health that
Speaker 1: we don't know what people are going through as also
Speaker 1: just you know, emotionally, we don't know what people are
Speaker 1: going through. It's going to say mental health too. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I've taken that to heart, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: writing about really serious issues, and I take those issues seriously,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I feel like it has been a
Speaker 1: saving grace for me, and I want to share those
Speaker 1: other people that you know, a sense of humor can
Speaker 1: even sustain you. So, like, how how you use your humor?
Speaker 1: Like this, you want to hear how I chose my oncologist. Uh,
Speaker 1: here's what I did. The first doctor was, on the
Speaker 1: face of it, like a very compassionate person, like a
Speaker 1: very kind face with kind eyes. And what he said
Speaker 1: to me was the exact same diagnosis as the second
Speaker 1: doctor and the same protocol, but the way he said it,
Speaker 1: he said, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry what you have.
Speaker 1: We're going to do the best we can for you
Speaker 1: for as long as we can. There's no cure for this.
Speaker 1: We're just going to do the best we can. And
Speaker 1: my sister was there because you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: she makes a spreadsheet. She had gone through my medical records,
Speaker 1: and she said, my sister is behind in her mammogram
Speaker 1: at her call on oscar piece. Should should she be
Speaker 1: catching up that right now? And that doctor said, I
Speaker 1: don't think we have to worry about that now, oh
Speaker 1: my And I'm like, oh my god. And I know
Speaker 1: he meant that in a kind way, like why put
Speaker 1: her through that? Like what he was saying was we
Speaker 1: know the cancer that's going to kill her, and she
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god. But he was very kind
Speaker 1: about it. So I thought, you know, everyone suggested me
Speaker 1: I get a second opinion, and I said, well, why
Speaker 1: should I do that, because this is generally known what
Speaker 1: I've got and what the you know, situation is. But
Speaker 1: people suggested it. So I went to see this doctor
Speaker 1: that I heard had the bedside manner of, as someone
Speaker 1: put it, an open grave. What this doctor said to
Speaker 1: me was, first of all, he gave me the history
Speaker 1: of lung cancer like I was writing a science paper
Speaker 1: about it. I immediately like, oh, a project. I love
Speaker 1: a project, and take notes. I'm a I'm a writer.
Speaker 1: And yes, there is no cure for this right now.
Speaker 1: Same information, very cut and dried. And then my sister says, well,
Speaker 1: my sister is behind in her maverigram nicolinoscopy. What do
Speaker 1: you think? And he thought, took a pause, and he said, well,
Speaker 1: I want your sister. I'm sitting right there by the way.
Speaker 1: I want your sister to be one of my patients,
Speaker 1: who is you know, who gets cured of this, so
Speaker 1: that she could have the possibility of one day getting
Speaker 1: breast cancer. I thought, you know what, that's my guy.
Speaker 1: I want the guy who wants me to live long
Speaker 1: enough to maybe get breast cancer. Yeah. I just thought, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean and like I thought, this is
Speaker 1: this is you know, this is pretty funny amidst the
Speaker 1: horrible nous of this. And that's when I know my
Speaker 1: brain is working. That's when I know that, like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know that's a coping mechanism for me. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that was that was how I picked that. Yeah, Annabelle,
Speaker 1: I want to we've we've been going since December on
Speaker 1: this podcast. I do, but I do want to end
Speaker 1: on something that I'm sort of obsessed with from your book,
Speaker 1: which is you you became obsessed with this fluffy poof
Speaker 1: that you saw in the window of a furniture store
Speaker 1: well by the way, which has led to you basically,
Speaker 1: what are you lying around naked on like white shag rugs?
Speaker 1: And so take us through this journey that gives you
Speaker 1: so much pleasure that has ended with you becoming Linus
Speaker 1: from Peanuts. Yes, I have a blank ee. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a lie. I have a lot of blank ease
Speaker 1: now and I fucking love my blank ease And if that,
Speaker 1: if I'm lioness, that's that's what I need. And I
Speaker 1: recommend it. I highly recommend a blankie. You don't need
Speaker 1: to get your chart done, just get a blanket. It's
Speaker 1: so comforting. I have a blanket, and George has a blanket,
Speaker 1: and we're not allowed to share blankets, but that blankets
Speaker 1: pulled up over me the majority of the day and
Speaker 1: it's it's so helpful. So the thing was I, you know,
Speaker 1: I writing in that chapter about growing up in the
Speaker 1: cow gone generation, that cow gone take me away, like
Speaker 1: the idea that we were sold that there's something in
Speaker 1: that case the bath that will change everything, right, I've
Speaker 1: always tried to resist that. And then I step found
Speaker 1: myself standing in front of a rochebou Bois showroom and
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's that very expensive furniture retailer. And
Speaker 1: there's this like iridescent poof and it was like the
Speaker 1: color of a marshmallow, but it was glowing, and I
Speaker 1: just got obsessed with the idea that that poof could
Speaker 1: change my life. If I had that poof, I could
Speaker 1: sort of rest my head on it and everything would
Speaker 1: be could I just got obsessed. I was visiting it
Speaker 1: in that store like a like a petting zoo. I
Speaker 1: would go and touch it, But meanwhile it was just
Speaker 1: like thousands of dollars, And so I went down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole of going online and ordering lesser, cheap versions
Speaker 1: of that of like fluffy pillows. I just decided I
Speaker 1: needed softness. I called this like a softness spree, and
Speaker 1: I ended up with enough fluffy pillows and soft fuzzy blankets.
Speaker 1: It's like there's a herd of alpaca raising in my
Speaker 1: living room. The irony is is that during COVID it
Speaker 1: has been so comforting, like I need my blankie. I
Speaker 1: get it now. Why Lioness was dragging that like we
Speaker 1: need comfort like and you know what if that's what
Speaker 1: it takes, And then you know, when I got this diagnosis,
Speaker 1: I wrote it in New York Times that what I
Speaker 1: wanted more than a juicer was a fleecy bathrobe. I
Speaker 1: have quite a few now. Fleecy bathrobe started arriving at
Speaker 1: my door. And you know what, It's not a cure
Speaker 1: for lung cancer, but it really helps. Actually, it really helps.
Speaker 1: I believe it. All right, So are you telling me
Speaker 1: not to send you a fleece bathrobe? No, sending up
Speaker 1: too many Okay, I just want to make I want
Speaker 1: to make it clear as we sit here, I'm wearing
Speaker 1: hard pants. I'm actually in hard pants. I'm wearing clothes.
Speaker 1: I do not wear the bathrobe all day because I could,
Speaker 1: and that would that would be the end, you know.
Speaker 1: But I really think one of the things I hope
Speaker 1: people take from this book is kindness and is accepting
Speaker 1: the kindness of strangers. I always thought that was the
Speaker 1: worst thing, you know. I read Tennessee Williams blanched terrible
Speaker 1: fear of my life to accept the kindness of strangers.
Speaker 1: But not only you know, being kind to other people.
Speaker 1: But I mean I can be very unkind to myself
Speaker 1: and the way that I speak to myself. I can
Speaker 1: be very hard and punishing to myself. And kindness to
Speaker 1: the self. I think it's really important at this moment
Speaker 1: to lower your expectations of yourself just and and if
Speaker 1: if you need a blank ee, get it blanky get
Speaker 1: to Yeah, Annabelle Growich, I love you so much. I
Speaker 1: really thank you for taking this time. Your book is
Speaker 1: unbelievably fantastic. I'm going to buy a thousand on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Everybody should read it. It is but but you really,
Speaker 1: you really walk the line of important issues. But you
Speaker 1: do it with comedy, which is, you know, incredibly hard,
Speaker 1: and but you do it so well. You are a
Speaker 1: master of it. So thank you. Oh it really means
Speaker 1: so much, really, does you know? Maybe it's because I'm
Speaker 1: fifty and change that I think about mortality so much,
Speaker 1: But it is the thing that keeps me up at night.
Speaker 1: I really do lie in bed and I think I
Speaker 1: don't have that much time left? How how am I
Speaker 1: going to spend it? What am I going to do?
Speaker 1: How how do I live the best version of my life?
Speaker 1: And reading Annabelle's book and speaking to her, it does
Speaker 1: make you think you could be going along in your life.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're just binge watching Hulu all day and you
Speaker 1: get a serious diagnosis, or you find out that your
Speaker 1: life is being cut shorter than you expected and you
Speaker 1: can't help it. Rack your brain and go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: have I done everything I wanted to do? Have I
Speaker 1: loved everybody I wanted to love to have. I said
Speaker 1: everything I wanted to say. So, you know, as much
Speaker 1: as you've read this on every feel good calendar or
Speaker 1: heard it from Oprah, you kind of do have to
Speaker 1: live your best life every day because you never know
Speaker 1: when you're going to get that diagnosis or you'll be
Speaker 1: faced by that taxi that's going too fast. Um and
Speaker 1: now that I'm so depressed, I suggest everybody go have
Speaker 1: a big glass of red wine. Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to Go Ask Ali next week and go ask Ali.
Speaker 1: I talked to meditation teacher, author, radio and podcast host
Speaker 1: Bob Roth who tries to talk me into calming my brain. Well,
Speaker 1: good luck to that, Bob. Be sure to subscribe, rate
Speaker 1: and review the podcast and follow me on social media
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Ali e Wentworth and on Instagram the Real
Speaker 1: Ali Wentworth And if you have questions or guests you'd
Speaker 1: like to hear from, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Call or texted me at three to three four six
Speaker 1: three five six or email me Go Ask Gali podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Go Ask Gali is a production
Speaker 1: of Shonda Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I
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