1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: It's that time. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: Time, time, time, luck and load. The Michael Verie Show 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: is on the air. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: After September twelfth, I received a number of calls from folks, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: emails from folks people had to be talking to, and 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: they would say, I didn't realize what turning point was, 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: or I just knew the name Charlie Kirk, but I 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: didn't know that much about what he was doing. And 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: then to a person they said, but I've gone back 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: and looked at the YouTube videos and this man is 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: doing something amazing. It's incredible what he was doing. And 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: then they talk about, you know, being hopeful that this 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: will launch this organization even bigger, which is of course 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: what Charlie would have wanted. And I have referred to 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: him as he said that he wanted to be remembered 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: as an evangelist, and that is such a powerful not 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: a political organizer, an evangelist. He was a political organizer, 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: he was a cultural force, but he was an evangelist 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: and that's the most important thing. And as I've said, 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: he was an evangelist on par with Billy Graham, and 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: I mean that we have another evangelist with us today. 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: It's our honor to welcome to the program for the 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: first time, Turning Point Pastor Lucas Miles, Welcome, good stir. 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me on new book. 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: Pagan Threat, Confronting America's Godless Uprising. I always ask what 26 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: to say. I always start interviews like this, discussions like 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: this with the first the same question, what do you 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: hope to accomplish with this? 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope to bring awareness to I think an 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: imminent danger in this nation that's already really among us, 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: and it is what I would call this pagan threat. 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: Honor to serve Charlie Kirk for the last eighteen months 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: that or to you, Yeah, you know, kind of introduce 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: this concept talking about him, and I've been the senior 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: director of TPOSA faith overseeing the faith arm of Terry 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: Point USA underneath his leadership, and it's you know, I 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: have more result now than ever, obviously through the lens 38 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: of grief, but we know what the mission is, and 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: Charlie understood this threat. I believe ultimately it's this threat 40 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: that took his life, and that is an intentional esurping 41 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: of Christian values and the dominant Christian worldview in this 42 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: nation to replace and supplant it with a post Christian 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: and pagan ideology for a very intentional purpose, in order 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: to have Marxism embraced. Marxism cannot coexist in a Christian society. 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: They're antithetical to one another. But if you can supplant 46 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: and deconstruct that Christian worldview and replace it with a 47 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: marx or with a pagan worldview, and demoralize the American people, 48 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: now you have a shot of getting Marxism accepted. And 49 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: so we're seeing a very intentional, bought and paid for 50 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: revival among a you know, those who to a false 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: ideology to try to counteract I believe what God's doing 52 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: in this nation. 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: So obviously we we have this conversation in the shadow 54 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: of the Mamdani election. How does that affect a book 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: that you would have completed before it was clear he 56 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: was going to win. 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, Mondani was. I think a 58 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: perfect example of this is that we have this intersection 59 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: of several things at once. We have this intersection of specifically, 60 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: you know, Islamicists and a Marxist and these two things 61 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: don't really you know, work together. Muslims and Marxists don't 62 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: have the same playbook. But we're seeing with this Marxist 63 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: overlay a. You know, it's sort of the the enemy 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: of my enemy is my friend, and they're finding ways 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: to work together and to even co identify together to 66 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: gain momentum. When you understand that the engine that's driving 67 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: so much on the left is what is known as 68 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: the Hegelian dialectic, and basically what Hagel put out there 69 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: was the German philosopher that you have in order to 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: move forward in history and gain progress, that you have 71 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: to have conflict, and that conflict is driven by what 72 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: he called the thesis of the day, basically the dominant 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: worldview colliding with the antithesis, and that you intentionally introduce 74 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: the antithesis for the purpose of creating that conflict in chaos, 75 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: because on the other side of that will be a 76 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: melding and that will be this synthesis that comes out 77 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: on the other side. So if we do this very quickly, 78 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: you have capitalism, a free market at one time was 79 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: the thesis of America, and you put against that the opposite, 80 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: the antithesis, which is socialism, and what do you get 81 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: On the other side, You get democratic socialism, and so 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: that becomes kind of this new thing that has the 83 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: language of the free market, but it is still being 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: driven by the radicalism of the socialist agenda. We've seen 85 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: the same thing happen with Mandani where it is you know, uh, 86 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: democratic socialism has become kind of the norm in a 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: place like New York City. That's what the average person 88 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: on the street holds to. Now what's the opposite of that. 89 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: The opposite of that is the islamis estate that is 90 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: a total you know, totalitarian religious zelotant movement that is 91 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: completely antithetical to this socialist, you know position. But you 92 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 2: put those two things together, and now you have a 93 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: candidate on the other side that's electable because he's a 94 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 2: democratic socialist Muslim, and so he has the form and 95 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: the language of a democratic socialist, but the agenda of 96 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: an Islamicist. And now he's in position to be able 97 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: to be mayor of New York City and drive that 98 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: that radicalism further into kind of the ethos, you know, 99 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: of that of that city. 100 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: Charnie Kirk wrote the intro to the book, how does 101 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: it you know what goes through your mind when you 102 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: look at the book and you see his name as 103 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: the forward author of the forward you. 104 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: Know, this is it's difficult, you know, I mean, I 105 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: the book came out the week after Charlie was martyred. 106 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: That was pre scheduled. You know, it had been pushed 107 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: actually several times. It was originally going to come out 108 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: in the summer, and there were delays with publishing and 109 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: everything else that happened all the time, and it got 110 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: pushed until September. And you know, just knowing first off 111 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: that Charlie understood the threat and he understood what was 112 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: at stake every single day, and yet he was still 113 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: willing to place himself in positions to be able to 114 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: influence the younger generation, even at the risk of threat 115 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: of life and personal peril. And you know he did 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: this day after day, sometimes three and four events a day. 117 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: I mean, Charlie worked harder than anybody that I'd ever seen. 118 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: And he was the most integrity filled person. What he 119 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: said from you know, the microphone is what he lived 120 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: in his real life, and it's how he led, you know, 121 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: as a boss and leader and a visionary and and 122 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: I'm I'm honored. It's it's it's kind of forever entwined 123 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: us in many ways. But there's there's nobody else. I'd 124 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: rather have part of this book than him. It's obviously 125 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: helped fuel a lot of the success of the book 126 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: is even his involvement with it at that time, and 127 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: it's it's a I can't help, but just you know, 128 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: see that what the enemy intends for evil, God, God, 129 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: you know, looks for ways to bring good on the 130 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: other side of that. And certainly this revival and this 131 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: movement and the awareness that's happening, you know, it gives 132 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: me more hope for this nation and for the Gospel. 133 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: Knowing that people are waking up and I think, you know, 134 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: recognizing their need for a savior and the importance of 135 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: the Cross. 136 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: You use the word revival, and as a good Southern 137 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: Baptist to grow up on the revival circuit, that's what 138 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: I have described it as. I don't remember a revival 139 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: in my lifetime on this scale, and I related all 140 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: to what happened in the Good Work of USA. Our 141 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: conversation with Pastor Lucas Miles about his book Pagan Threat 142 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: Confronting America's Godless Uprising Stay tuned. 143 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: Michael. 144 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: Pastor Lucas Miles is our guest, has written a book 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: called conronting America's Godless Uprising. Pagan threat confronting America's Godless Uprising, 146 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: the forward by his friend and tp USA founder Charlie Kirk. 147 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: Of course we lost September tenth, Lucas, talk to me 148 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: for a moment. I know we want to talk about 149 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: the book, but talk to me about how things have 150 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: changed for Turning Point USA after Charlie's I say assassination, 151 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: you say martyrdom. I'm very comfortable with that term as well. 152 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: Talk to me about how that has changed for the organization. 153 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there's been a relis Feld support that 154 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: has just en circle us here at Turning Point that 155 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: has really helped fuel the work that Charlie started and 156 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: the work that we continue to do. We are so 157 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: grateful for the prayers, the letters, the you know, our 158 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: donors are just you knows on the ground out there 159 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: saying how can I help. I mean, there have been 160 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: countless vigils around the country honoring Charlie. In the days 161 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: and weeks that followed his death. There have been, you know, 162 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: just a just a massive influx of pastors and churches 163 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: that want to get on board. We had just to 164 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 2: give you an idea about four thousand churches on September 165 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: tenth that were already part of TPUSA Faith. We have 166 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: since gone to eight thousand churches. We have doubled in 167 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: sixty days what it took us several years to be 168 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: able to build. And so we are growing at an 169 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 2: exponential rate right now. And we have a deep bench. 170 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: You know, Charlie, nobody, nobody is going to be Charlie Kirk. 171 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: There's nobody that can fill his shoes. There's nobody that 172 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 2: can be exactly who he was, and he fulfilled I believe, 173 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: a divine purpose in his generation. He did what he 174 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: was called to do. His life was snuffed out early 175 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: because of an evil you know, violent you know, agenda 176 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: and force and individual that you know took it upon 177 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: himself to try to silence Charlie. And and it's it's demonic. 178 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: But I will say that that, you know, Charlie gather 179 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: around himself a very a very deep bench of people 180 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: who are like minded that that that had the same 181 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: result that he had, the same heart that he had. 182 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: And we are bound together, you know, to to see 183 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: his mission continue. And I always say to Charlie, you know, 184 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: Charlie knew how to build and find gladiators. And that's 185 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: really when you look at CPUSA and TPSA faith. The 186 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: individuals here are a lot of them are very young. 187 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: I'm I'm you know, I'm probably I'm at forty six. 188 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: I'm on the top end of the scale here over 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: at Turning Point, you know, but it is our staff. 190 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: Even though they're young, they are so dedicated, so strong, 191 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: theres so much grit and they just don't stop. And 192 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: this is the spirit that's always been here at Turning Point. 193 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: It's the spirit that's going to continue. I think it's 194 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: even stronger now than it's ever been before. And so 195 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: you know, certainly we're we're serving through the lens of 196 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: grief right now, and and that's not just going to 197 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: go away. But we're in great hands. Are c Suites 198 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: and amazing Erica now has been you know, Charlie's who 199 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: has been named as a CEO. I spent a little 200 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: bit time with her this week in some meetings, and 201 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: she is she's just amazing. It's obvious that God's hands 202 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: on her. She is just resilient, She's dedicated to this mission. 203 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 2: She's you know, just blocking out the noise and we're 204 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: just getting to work doing, you know, this job of 205 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 2: not only you know, creating the most conservative generation, but 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: from my department's standpoint, in the Faith department, the most 207 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: Christian generation. And we're not going to stop till we 208 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: accomplished that. 209 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: I do believe that. And what's fascinating, and I've said 210 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: this many times, and obviously Donald Trump recognized it. Charlie 211 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Kirk was not only saving souls and teaching about the 212 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: fundamentals of American virtue, but he was doing that to 213 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: an audience that typically we've not been successful at reaching. 214 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: And that's what made this so incredibly special. Lucas, I 215 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: will get back to the book, but tell me how 216 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: you got involved with all of this, and I would 217 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: I would be interested in your testimony. 218 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. I've I've been pastoring the same church 219 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: for going on twenty one years now in just outside 220 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: of South ben Indiana, near the University of Notre Dame, 221 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: and that's born and raised that area, had moved away 222 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: for a while, started preaching at seventeen, planted the church 223 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: at twenty four, and I'm still doing that today in 224 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: my mid forties. And I had been brought into the 225 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: ecosystem of turning Point USA and TPUSA Faith. I think 226 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: that one of the staff here had gotten a hold 227 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: of one of my previous books called The Christian Left 228 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: that came out kind of around COVID, exposing a lot 229 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: of the infiltration of progressive thought within the church and 230 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: kind of calling out some of the early iterations of 231 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: woke pastors and things. And they brought me into a 232 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: couple of pastor summits where I spoke at for TPUSA 233 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: Faith and had the opportunity to kind of slowly build 234 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 2: a relationship with Charlie. I first met him in twenty 235 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: twenty and you know, by twenty twenty three had a 236 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: pretty good rapport that had developed with him, had been 237 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: on his show a couple of times, had done an 238 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: event with him that he brought me in where he 239 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: interviewed me for about an hour plus in front of 240 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: a big audience, and on my book Woke Jesus, and 241 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: was just always so open handed and generous, and although 242 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: we were doing somewhat similar things on the faith side, 243 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: there was there was never a spirit of competition. He 244 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: was just always like, you're like minded, let's let's empower you, 245 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: Let's let's get you out there, let's and he just 246 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 2: helped use really the platform that he had built and 247 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: to amplify the work that I was doing. It was 248 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: it was very remarkable and uncommon, even in the Christian 249 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 2: space for somebody to be that generous. He had shared 250 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 2: with me privately a little over a year and a 251 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: half ago that that they were, you know, working on 252 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: some things in the faith departments, and he really had 253 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: a vision for the need for a pastoral figure kind 254 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: of the helm of TPUSA faith to lead the staff 255 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: on a day to day basis and really kind of 256 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: have one foot in operations and one foot in the 257 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: pastoral doctrinal oversight, you know, of where we were going. 258 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 2: And the previous to this had been a lot of 259 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: operational you know direction kind of boots on the ground, 260 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 2: but less so on the pastoral you know role, And 261 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: so he kind of created this new position. And he 262 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: told me that they were, you know, beginning to search, 263 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 2: and I had shared with him, I said, you know, 264 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: very happy and where I was totally not thinking about 265 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: anywhere on my bingo card of having working for Charlie 266 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: Kirk on there, I just said, hey, if you help that, 267 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: ain't somebody let me know, I'll fly out here on 268 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: my own dime, make sure you find the right fit, 269 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: and kind of share with them a couple of thoughts 270 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: I had on what they needed to look for, and 271 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: he said, I might take you up on that. And 272 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: about three weeks after he called said, hey, I found somebody. 273 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: It's you. When can you start? And and so I 274 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: was completely caught me off guard, but I knew as 275 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: soon as the words came out Charlie's mouth that it 276 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: was a god It was a God ordained moment. And 277 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: my whole experience with Charlie felt like that. It's just 278 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: always every moment felt special, every moment felt unique. There 279 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: was just something on his life, and he had just 280 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: seemed to have no wasted time, no idle moments, and 281 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: and just you know, lived his life so efficiently in 282 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: doing what God had called him to do, from how 283 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: he learned to how he you know, shared with others, 284 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: to how he spent time with his family, like he 285 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: was just so intentional. And it taught me a lot. 286 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: Even though I'm you know, I had fifteen years on him, 287 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: I learned I learned a tremendous amount from him just 288 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: watching him and being around him. And so I've been 289 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: honored to be on the team now for about eighteen 290 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: months overseeing our faith operations, and we're excited about what 291 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: comes next. 292 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: And just did keep it his way with he's going, 293 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: You've got the Michael Berrys Show. I don't want to 294 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: be one of those people, but often I fall into 295 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: the trap of it where I invite an author on 296 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: to talk about a book which is their project that work. 297 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: You work on a book for so long and then 298 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: you birth it out into the world, and you want 299 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: to be taken. He want to spread and you want 300 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: to share it, and especially a book on faith, a 301 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: book on Christianity, a book on the threat to America, 302 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: this one in particular, Pagan Threat Confronting America's Godless Uprising 303 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: by Pastor Lucas Miles of TPUSA, the forward by Charlie Kirk. 304 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: But in so doing, sometimes if that person has an 305 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: interesting background or everything that's going on with TPUSA, it's 306 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: easy to get distracted. I am fascinated by what's in 307 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: this book, So let's talk about that. Pastor Lucas Miles. 308 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Pagan Threat. Why do you use the word pagan threat 309 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: as opposed to there are some alternatives that come to mind, 310 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that if you would. 311 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, first off, thanks for having me on and giving 312 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: me this opportunity to talk about it, and also an 313 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: opportunity to talk about Charlie. Both things are important at once. 314 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: And you know, it's it's an author by with you 315 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: when you when you look at where we're as a society. 316 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: This word pagan doesn't get used very much anymore, sort 317 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: of an old esoteric word. You know. You might think 318 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: of Zeus or Odin or you know the Greek you know, 319 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: pantheon of gods, and to some agree that is what 320 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: I'm writing about, but I think it's more than that, 321 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: So I'm using pagan. It's sort of a broad blanket term. 322 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons I wanted to nod to 323 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: that word as a as a general descriptor of this 324 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: post Christian you know, uh revival that's taking place is 325 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: that this is very similar to what the early Church 326 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 2: went through in pagan Rome as the Gospel was first 327 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: taking route. There's not been a time in history since 328 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: the days in Rome where Christianity has been vilified to 329 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: the extent that it is today in our current society. 330 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 2: Back in early Rome, in the first several centuries, we 331 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 2: had people like Justin Martyr to stand up to give 332 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: an offense of the Christian faith because there were accusations 333 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: the Church was facing that, you know, that Christians were 334 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: cannibalistic because they consumed the body and blood of Jesus, 335 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 2: or that they were ancestual because they would call their 336 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 2: spouses their brother or sister in christ. They were referred 337 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: to as being bad for the economy because so many 338 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 2: of those who were in the business of making idols 339 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: and making you know, peddling sacrifices that could be given 340 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: at various pagan temples were going out of business because 341 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 2: so many people were coming to Jesus, and so it 342 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: was the Christian's fault. The economy was failing. So Christians 343 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 2: were vilified. Now, even if you go back thirty years, 344 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: you know, in our history, Christians weren't referred to in 345 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: that way. They were referred to as holier than now 346 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: goody two shoes, maybe self righteous, but they weren't referred 347 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: to as being bigoted, they weren't referred to as being racist. 348 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: They weren't referred to, you know, in these terms of 349 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: being you know, misogynistic. But now Christians all of a sudden, 350 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: the vernacular has changed and Christians are being vilified in 351 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 2: ways in which we've not seen since early Rome. This 352 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 2: is this post Christian pagan world that we are now 353 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: in where we have to once again develop a new 354 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: apology for the Gospel. And by apology, I'm using that 355 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: in the Greek sense of the word, not an apology 356 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: like I'm sorry, but a defense, a robust defense and 357 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: polemic for the faith, that we can demonstrate the necessity 358 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: for the Christian Gospel and the you know, the validity 359 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 2: of the Christian Gospel and the historicity of the Christian 360 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: Gospel in this era and age of skepticism and doubt. 361 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: You know that I think we are facing, especially this 362 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: post COVID generation. 363 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: Pastor Lucas smiles TPUSA Pagan threat confronting America's godless uprising. 364 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: You mentioned a moment ago about the church partnerships. I 365 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: forget the exact language you use. How does a church 366 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: that's interested get involved, What are the resources? What does 367 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: that look like? I think there's gonna be a lot 368 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: of people very interested in that. 369 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have a website tpusafaith dot com where 370 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: you can go to find out more. We've recently launched 371 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: a map locator, so if somebody's listening who's not a pastor, 372 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: but they were looking for a church near them, they 373 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: can go to our map. We are opting. All of 374 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: our churches have to opt into this, so it's a 375 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: kind of a slow process of getting all eight thousand 376 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: churches on the map. We're up to about five hundred 377 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: or so right now. We just rolled this out a 378 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: few days ago, and so that numbers can be growing 379 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 2: very rapidly as our team processes through the information. But 380 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 2: that map will continue to be present and where you 381 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: can go and check yours at code and look around 382 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: the United States to see if there any churches near 383 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: you that are working with Turning Point. So there's no cost. 384 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: Everything we do for the church is free of charge. 385 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: We offer free courses and curriculum. We just finished a 386 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: course called First Truths that's become our most viewed course 387 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: that we've ever launched, which is myself and doctor Jeff 388 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: Myers from Summit Ministries talking true kind of really the 389 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: primary Christian doctrines, things we might see and say, the 390 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: apostles Creed that help us understand and define what is 391 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: Christian and what is not and how do these primary 392 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: Christian beliefs help us think about sort of the cultural 393 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: hot button topics around us. So, for instance, when you 394 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 2: know that God is creator, that helps you to be 395 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: able to have a biblical view of marriage, sexuality, as 396 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: well as the sanctity of life because we see him 397 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: as the origin, you know, for those things, and he's 398 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: the one who's defined them as the genesis of them, 399 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: and so you know, this helps us as we process 400 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: through these primary doctrines. We also have regional managers across 401 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: the country, so if churches are looking to connect with us, 402 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: they can reach out through our website, fill out an 403 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: interest form, one of our team will get a hold 404 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 2: of them, will come out, we'll meet with you, we'll 405 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: talk about all the resources we have available, again free 406 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: of charge. We're not pushing churches to you know, we're 407 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: driven by you know, our generous donors that are really 408 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: allowing this program to be available for the church, and 409 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: so we try not to put any sort of burden 410 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: on the pastors themselves or the church themselves as they 411 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: as they navigate through this. And we're just asking in 412 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 2: response that churches would commit to standing with us in 413 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: uniting around primary doctrine and to resist vocism in their 414 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: American and then they're a local pulpit. We want to 415 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 2: see wocism eradicated from the American church. H That's that's 416 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: one of you know, several goals that we have. 417 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: T p U s a Faith dot Com is the website. 418 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: T p U s a Faith dot Com. Pastor Lucas 419 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: Miles is our guest. The book is Pagan Threat when 420 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: you talk about wocism in the church. I have long 421 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 1: lamented that the that the invasion by the left, the 422 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: incredible success they have had is that rather than compete 423 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: with the church the educational institution, they have instead infiltrated 424 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: and destroyed them from within. And that's far more powerful 425 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: in this trojan horse sort of way. What are signs 426 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: to someone who says, you know, gone to this church, 427 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: I grew up in this church, but I'm feeling uncomfortable. 428 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: What are some signs of a woke church that you 429 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: see as red flags? 430 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? First off, I think it's important to remember that 431 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 2: Satan's not a builder. You know, God is a builder, 432 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: and so Satan is only a hijacker. He's coming in 433 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 2: to try to steal, kill and destroy and he's only 434 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: doing that and things that are you know, existing, He's 435 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: not going to create his own thing. He's going to 436 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: try to infiltrate the existing frameworks and organizations and you know, entities, 437 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: including the church, to use that as a vehicle for 438 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: destruction in some capacity. And so if you're looking for 439 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: kind of like asking a question, is as my church 440 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 2: woke or not? First off, it should be obvious by now, 441 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 2: after COVID, after George Floyd, after the rise of BLM, 442 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 2: after you know, uh in doc trans and doctrination in schools, 443 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: and after the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, if you couldn't 444 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: see where your pastor stands and they had a resounding 445 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: silence over all of these issues, you know, even the 446 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: overturning of Row, if you didn't have a standing ovation 447 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: at your church, if they didn't address it, if they 448 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 2: didn't make mention of it, they're either super detached and 449 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: they and probably you know, incapable of actually offering you 450 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: sound wisdom on the state of affairs in the world 451 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: today and how to use scripture to be able to 452 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 2: navigate the world around us, or they are actually not 453 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: in line with a biblical worldview because and that's why 454 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: they're not addressing and or you know, standing strong during 455 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 2: these seasons. And so you know, there have been multiple 456 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 2: tests for pastors over the last you know, several years, 457 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: and most pastors, I think have come short on that 458 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 2: and been left wanting. And so I think that, you know, 459 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 2: we're looking for a church that preaches the full Council, 460 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: the Word of God, that's able to help people think biblically. 461 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: What I say is in the in the boardroom, in 462 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: the bedroom at the lent bo you're listening to. 463 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Pastor Lucas Miles's our guest. Tpusafaith 464 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: dot com is their website. He is with the faith 465 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: wing of the Turning Point USA organization. The forward to 466 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: the book written by Charlie Kirk, and there's a line 467 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: I want to quote, but I want to ask you 468 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: about it. Charlie Kirk writes, a fearless warrior for Christ, 469 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: Lucas is a man built to stand for the truth 470 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: in a time of great apostasy. Don't just read pagan threat, 471 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: Internalize what it has to say, then share its message 472 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: with your Christian friends before they are seduced by paganism themselves. 473 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: We have a faith in a country to save. He 474 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: uses the line share its message with your Christian friends 475 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: before they are seduced by paganism themselves. I spoke at 476 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: Linked yesterday on the show about the seduction of particularly 477 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: young people, but many times poor people by socialism throughout history. 478 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: That's why it takes hold. It's very seductive. Do you 479 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: see as the seductive powers of paganism, uh, to to 480 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: to a person feeling this temptation. 481 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it actually sort of a spiritual halfway house. 482 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 2: It gives you the ability to feel like you're still spark, 483 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: you're still part of some sort of religious framework, while 484 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: having kind of just choose your own adventure, uh, you know, uh, 485 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 2: kind of create your own morals, create your own pathways. 486 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: On the other side of that, without any sort of rigidity. 487 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: And so, you know, Christianity, it's not that it's it's 488 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: you know, Christ freed us from you know, uh uh 489 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: he lived fully, perfectly the law in order to free 490 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: us from you know, the law of sin and death. 491 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: And and you know, Christianity, although we are in a 492 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 2: relationship that is rooted in God's grace and freedom and 493 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 2: liberty in Christ, there's a rigidity to it in that 494 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: it is well defined. It's a well defined moral structure 495 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 2: that Paganism does not share with it. And so, for instance, 496 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: Christianity has very clear boundaries about marriage, sexuality, about about 497 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: things like you know, what is righteous, what is unrighteous, 498 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 2: about honesty and the truth, and how to treat one another. 499 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: Paganism doesn't have this, although Pagans might try to invent 500 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 2: some sort of code or process for that many have tried. 501 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: It has the flexibility without these defining you know, in 502 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: out the defining text of the Word of God, to 503 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: sort of be whatever you want it to be. You 504 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: can create your own path and so you can. 505 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: Be an LGBT, you know, a witch who believes in 506 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 3: you know, shamanism, and you can kind of just pick 507 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 3: and choose what you want to create this hybrid, much 508 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: like a you know, a buffet, you know at a restaurant, 509 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 3: to just get a little bit of everything and just 510 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 3: shape it in a way that works for you. 511 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 2: Christianity isn't like that. It requires dying to yourself and 512 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 2: you know, bowing, you know, your need to the King 513 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: of Kings or the Lord of lords, submitting to him 514 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: as lord over your life. He is the arbiter of 515 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: truth over our life, not ourselves. It's not a self deification. 516 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: So paganism is attractive because there is this false sense 517 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: of self empowerment, of really self deification, that I get 518 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: to decide what gender I am, I get to decide 519 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: when does life start in the womb, I get to 520 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 2: decide who lives and who dies. And these are sort 521 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: of the values that we're seeing especially in this not 522 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 2: just only paganism, but in this what I would call 523 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 2: a critical paganism, Paganism plus Marxism that is becoming kind 524 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: of this dominant force, you know, that is driving I 525 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: think much of the younger generation forward. 526 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think you're right that that is 527 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: a philosophy that is that is being grabbed onto or 528 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: whatever want ideology. But I think there is also in 529 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: TPUs A has been a major part of this. There 530 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: is also a revival, including among young folks. I spoke 531 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: at a high school group recently that they were forming 532 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 1: at Stratford High School, which is which is here in Houston, 533 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: and some some parents were trying to keep them from forming, 534 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: which really is just odd. It's just a student organization. 535 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: You can have whatever you want. But I spoke there, 536 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: and I'm in a studio all day. I live more 537 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: of the rush limball lifestyle. I'm sure you are out 538 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: and about, and I know Charlie was out and about 539 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,239 Speaker 1: every day. I don't get out and about the way 540 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: I used to, but I did for that and the 541 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: energy I felt from these young people, it was just 542 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to bottle it. It was beautiful, it was wonderful, 543 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: fresh faced optimism and values. It was really just inspiring. 544 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: And I see now why Charlie did it. But I 545 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: also see rivaling what you were talking about, the young 546 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: people and this paganism and socialism. I also see revival 547 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: amongst young people, a separate set of young people, and 548 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: that's inspiring. That's exciting to me. 549 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the two things can be true at once. 550 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: And certainly, you know nobody anticipated this, is that the 551 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: martyr of Charlie Kirk sparked this Christian revival that is 552 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: pushing back against I think this attempt to bring America 553 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: to this post Christian place, and it's turning back the 554 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: clock on that a little bit. It's not that it's 555 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: no longer an issue. It's certainly still a threat, but 556 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: we have this you know, this temporary right spot right 557 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: now that's creating a lot of you know, hope and opportunity. 558 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, it's important to recognize 559 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: that we can't spark revival as humans, but only God 560 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: can do that, but we can steward it. And so 561 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do is work with our churches 562 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 2: and pastors across you know, tposa faith on really how 563 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: to steward you know, the moment that we're in so 564 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: we can see this be effective. There are lots of 565 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: harts and minds to change. You know, we work with 566 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 2: about eight thousand churches, but there's over three hundred and 567 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: fifty to four hundred thousand churches in this nation. So 568 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: even though we have a large group of pastors we 569 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: work with, it's still only a fraction of the pastors 570 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: in this country. And many of these pastors are still 571 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 2: pastors that either are afraid to work with us, they're 572 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 2: afraid to speak out on these topics, or they're pastors 573 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: that aren't up. They've you know, rejected biblical ideas. They're 574 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: now flying you know, BLM and Pride flags above the cross, 575 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: and they have really become traitors I think to the faith, 576 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: you know, in that sense, and so you know, there's 577 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: still a lot of work to do. I'm optimistic God 578 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: wins in the end. It doesn't mean the church in 579 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: America always thrives. We've seen the church in Europe where 580 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: it's faltered, and we have buildings that now act as 581 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 2: these you know, once meccas of you know, Christian spirituality 582 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: that are now becoming you know, in many times they're 583 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,239 Speaker 2: being bought out by Muslims and becoming kind of new 584 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: meccas for the Islamic faith, you know, in these beautiful 585 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: old cathedrals that have been lying dormant for some time. 586 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: And so you know this, this could be America's future 587 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: if we don't stand strong and and and you know, 588 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: continue this, this this fight for the faith, to defend 589 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 2: it in the face of these pagan ideologies. 590 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: I will close with a question for you, Pastor Lucas Miles, 591 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: and that is a very personal question. Is there an 592 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: aha moment you came to in your life that you 593 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: found that your ministry, your your walk, your marriage, your health, 594 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: that was something that changed. Maybe it was more sleep, 595 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: maybe it was more water, Maybe it was prayer in 596 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: the morning, maybe it was a walk. Is there some 597 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: aspect of your life personally that you would share that 598 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: may help someone else? 599 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 2: You know, I would say, just, you know, honestly, even 600 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: going back just more maybe more recently, the assassination and 601 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: murder and martyrdom of Charlie I think was aha moment 602 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: for a lot of people. And what it did for me, 603 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: among other things, was it reminded me that life is 604 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 2: a vapor. As much as we worry about our health 605 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 2: and our sleep and you know, our nutrition, and those 606 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: are good things to think about, certainly, but as much 607 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 2: as we worry about those things, those are things that 608 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: are not going to last for eternity. What is going 609 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: to last for eternity is the impact that you make 610 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: on a person's heart with the Gospel. And it's easy 611 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: to get so focused on the things of this world 612 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: that we lose sight of what really matters and what 613 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: has lasting power. And I think that Charlie's a reminder 614 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: for us of a life well lived and a life 615 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 2: focused on what matters. And so it's just, you know, 616 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: I said, I've said many times that I'm a different 617 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: person after September tenth. I think a lot of us 618 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: here at turning point are and I want to just 619 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: focus more on really what it means to die to 620 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: myself and to live for Christ and to do the 621 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: work necessary today. Not to try to earn salvation, we 622 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: can never do that, but to try to help others, 623 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: you know, find their hope in Jesus Christ, and help 624 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 2: a strong church be perpetuating in this world, to be 625 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: that city on the hill, you know, for others to 626 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: be able to come to know the faith. 627 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: His book is Pagan Threat, Confronting America's Godless Uprising Pastor 628 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: Lucas Miles forward by Charlie Kirk. He is with tp 629 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: USA Faiths dot com.