WEBVTT - Ep. 022 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.560 Hey, everyone, this is the Meat Eater Podcast. We're recording 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:09.039 out of Bozeman, Montana. Sunny, beautiful, very dry right now 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:15.120 bos and Montana. I'm joined by Long tong ANEI frequent guests, 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:20.160 the Lavian Lover, maker of Hunt Eat t shirts. UM, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:21.919 if you haven't bought one the Honest T shirts, go 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.920 do it now. It's the only thing he gets out 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:30.120 of this. Also by uh Land Tawny of back Country 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.479 Hunters and Anglers, which is a group I have a 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:40.840 conservation organization that I have admired the work of over 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.560 the last few years because I find that they're their 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:52.120 mission aligns well with with my uh take on conservation 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.960 issues and my take on hunting and fishing in public lands. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.960 And along with a handful other conservation groups that I 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.160 like a lot. There you know one that I m 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.240 M try to be supportive of and encourage. You'll be 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:09.080 supportive of um Land. Like we have a long time 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:10.960 of talk right now, but I want you to in 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.480 super quick way. They got two questions for you kids, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.040 that which one I want you to do first? First, 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:25.000 giving your hunting and fishing background, sure quickly don't two two? 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:30.040 UM explain b h A the mission of b h A. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.440 You can dovetail two into one or you can just 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.360 do one then two. I'll do one and two, but 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.640 making my elevator speech on number two, so it's quick, okay. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.080 So fifth generation Montana grew up hunting fishing, so that 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:49.240 that's back like seventies, eight seventies. First family members born 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.520 in Stevensville, Montana eighteen seventy two, so that was they 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.200 were incorporated as a town for their like in eighteen 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.080 seventy two, and my first family member was born there. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.520 You know what, your coster died, uh eighteen seventy What 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:08.120 June eighteen seventy six. Okay, yeah, that's wild man. So 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:09.919 we have a family cabin that's down the East Fork 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.800 of the Bitter down there. It's been in the family 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.399 for a hundred years. It's awesome. But so I grew 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.679 up on the East Fork fishing like Sam fly hatch there, 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.880 um Sam fly hatch on the Bighole River. Very lucky. 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.200 We spent a week down there. My father, uh knew 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.959 some folks outside of Yellowstone Park on the Cinembar basin, 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:28.640 and so he used to hunt elk down there, and 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.480 I would I know, yeah, like Cindambar Mountain and stuff 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.600 and uh and so I would that later became like 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.960 a lot of that stuff some National Forest and something 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.400 belongs to Cut, right, Yeah, Cut bought some of that, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.440 I mean that, and now Cut has transferred that over 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.079 to the Elk Foundation. Was then transferred over to the 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.440 National Forest so we can all hunt it now, Church 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.480 Universal Triumphant. It was a cult of sorts. Yeah, it 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.160 was like an apocalyptic colt based around what was her name, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.400 like Mary Profit or something like that. And then her 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.240 husband got busted running guns from Idaho to Montana. They 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.560 had big, huge, uh silos full of all sorts of 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.240 stuff for Armageddon. They were like a post apocalyptic outfit. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.560 But down there, I mean I grew up hunting behind 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.560 my dad where he'd be hiking up these steephills in 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.360 the snow, and literally I had to take, you know, 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.400 steps in his footsteps where I would not make it 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.799 because that was so small. And then my other favorite 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.400 thing I think growing up was duck hunting. And so 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.480 we had a place south of Missoula in the bed 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.880 Route Valley tell her wild left reff uge that my 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.480 dad helped set aside, and I put conservation he's been 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.240 on and when it got cold, that place was just 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.960 having for ducks. I mean they would you know, the 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.200 river freezes over and the only thing open the spring creeks, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:37.960 and so you just have ducks piling in there. And 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.200 I remember as a kid, we'd show up and you know, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.640 the whole there'd be a thunderous kind of awakening of 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.720 the marsh. They'd take off and then they come back 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.480 in fives and sixes and tents. And just watching my 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.960 dad work and the dog work was amazing. And he 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.120 let me bring my baby gun along and I think 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.240 I'd have a chance, but never would happen. So it's 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.320 been instilled to me at a young age. And then, uh, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.920 you know, growing up, I think, uh I probably got 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.920 away from hunting a little bit in high school just 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.520 because things got crazy. I was playing soccer in the fall, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.080 and uh I was chasing girls. And then you know, 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:15.800 now song keepers, no keepers threw them all back. Um, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.680 my wife's gonna love that, and uh, you know, and 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.200 but now, I mean, I think, you know, my late 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.839 like mid twenties, late twenties really started getting into hunting 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.400 fishing a lot more. And that's where you know, I 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.599 my father passed away when I was twenty and so 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.360 I was out in Seattle actually going to Seattle University, 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.800 and I came home and after my dad passed away, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.000 and it was like this awakening again, you know, like 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.080 the outdoors and like figuring out that's what I wanted 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.240 to do in conservation and so um that hunting kind 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.760 of brought me there. And then my dad was the 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.600 the lawyer for the Elk Foundation when the first started 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.600 in the eighty five up in Troy, helped bring them 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:50.760 to Missoula. Was their lawyer until he passed away in 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.720 nine and then he was involved in conservation easements and 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.080 so that's definitely with the Elk Foundation, but also with 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.680 real quick explain conservation ease. I feel like a lot 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.040 of people they hear that, but they don't really know 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.680 what that means. Yeah, so it's on private land. Uh. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.039 Private land owner decides that they want to protect the 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.920 resources on their on their private land, whether that's uh, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:11.840 you know, the ranching culture or just the kind of 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.479 wildlife habitat. So they work with a lawyer to draw 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.279 up what the covenants for that property can be, and 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.000 they could do it in perpetuity. So like my grandfather 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.480 that lives just outside of Missoula. He has about twenty 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.320 acres and they put a conservation eastment on there to 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.560 where he can't build any more houses on that land 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.240 and it can't be subdivided. And so no matter what, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.120 when he you know, he's in his mid nineties right now, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.720 when he passes away, and whoever that's passed on to 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:41.040 or sold to, that conservation easement goes along with him. 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.480 But they incentivize that with some tax credits. Yep. So 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.240 it's not I mean, it's not just one sided. I 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.560 think the biggest thing though, I mean, the tax benefits 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.000 are great, but that's not what makes the deal. I 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.400 think what makes the deal for people is that, you know, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.520 they we all see development happen all over this country, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.680 and I think it breaks people's hearts over and over 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.159 and over again. And that ability to be able to 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.120 pass that on and know what's gonna be there far 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:04.920 into the future, I think it's what really sells that. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:06.920 Oh for sure. Man, if you've got a place you're 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.440 in love with, you just hate to think of it 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.720 just getting trash later on in life. And I think 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.800 you know, again, we've probably all seen places you know 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:14.880 that we used to hunt or used to recreate on 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.360 that are now subdivided, and you know you're never gonna 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.880 get that back. So what I like about those things is, uh, 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.560 you hear so much from opponents of conservation that anytime 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.560 you set land aside, it's like, oh yeah, it's like 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.719 the government cramming it down. You throw It's like ahead, 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.880 tell to these dudes, man, right their own private property. Yeah, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.520 I mean it's a private property, right, you know. I 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.279 mean they have the right to do that, and nobody 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.880 should tell him not to. So you know, well you 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.240 mentioned bitter. Like the way the ducks come in there. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.760 We used to end at the end of duck season's 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.719 like December and January, when that rivers would start to freeze. 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.479 We'd float it in canoes and just sometimes I mean 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.719 it'd be like ridiculous. But you get those mornings where 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.520 uh was super cold, and so you get so much 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.479 steam coming off the river. You know, the air is 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.479 so much colder than the river, and like you pull 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.760 up on him because steam like it was so thick, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.520 you know, and all of a a sudden you realize that 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.200 you're sort of in the midst of it, like a 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.200 bunch of cann of the geese heads that some gravel 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.040 bar man. I just love doing it, but I know 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:24.680 that I don't tell her. That's still I mean, it's 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.040 still called tell her Wild. My dad helps set that 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.520 aside with Auto Teller and they put together about a 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.720 thousand acres there in the Better Root. It's pinched up 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.240 a couple of other big landowners and so it's a 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:40.000 it's a very special place. Yeah, alright, so haunting vision background. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.560 You've been in mountain of your life all my life. 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.239 I went to Seattle for a year and a half 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.040 and uh, great town. But it's gonna be hard to 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.720 take him out of the state. So give me how 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.920 you got into like like telling what b h A is. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.880 So b h A. Uh. We're a national organization and 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.080 we started around the campfire eleven years ago in Oregon. 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.640 Basically some people got together and said there wasn't an 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.560 organization focused on public policy around public lands and so 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.760 where the sports and voice for a wild public lands, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.320 waters and wildlife. And what that means that it's kind 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.880 of separates us from everybody else is we're strictly advocacy 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.880 and strictly advocacy on public lands. We there's kind of 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.480 five buckets that we look at, and it's access and 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.920 opportunity is the first one, and so there's a lot 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:24.760 of different things that come into that, Like the sail 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.480 of public lands kind of falls under that piece. Trying 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.840 to get access to public lands that are isolated as 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.840 another one you're talking about there, you're talking about land 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.560 lock chunks of public land exactly. That's the thing that Yeah, 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.120 I want to talk about all this stuff, but explain 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.520 that real quick. So can I just real right correct 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:46.920 me if I'm wrong? Sure, there are big chunks of 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.559 publicly owned land. BLM, I don't think any national force. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.520 Is there any national force, some national force where all 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.880 the land around it's privately help and there's no easement 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.280 to it, right uh Um, it's open, should be, it's 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.199 available to the public. If you came in on a helicopter, 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.120 you can go in there, but there is no way 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:07.920 to get to it. So it's like we the people 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.839 own land that we don't have a way to get to. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.440 That's the fact though. Private land is what it is. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.079 And I think so that you describe that kind of 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.120 the don't in effect what you just did. But then 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.320 there's also a ton of land in Montown that's checkerboarded. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.880 So you have you know BLM private BLM, and it's 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.120 all a checkerboard. And there's a big question of whether 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.400 you can cross corner hop corner crossing right and so 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.680 you know, supposedly our shoulders when we cross that corner 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.560 are violating airspace and so we're trespassing. Now, if you 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.720 talk to some wardens, they're not going to mess with you, 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.400 but you talk to some private land hunters and they will, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.480 you know, go after you for trespass. So we've we've 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:47.040 always not corner hopped. It's that's a yeah. So corner 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:48.719 hop will be like let's let's say you're looking at 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.920 are looking at a map and you're looking at sections. Okay, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.240 so I mean it doesn't always fall that cleanly, but 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.760 you have two corner sections, or you have two squares 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.280 of land, and they and they brought up only on 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.200 the corners. Now, if you have a GPS unit or 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.520 if the lands fence, then you can see the defence lines. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:14.800 You can theoretically have one ft in the corner of 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.480 a section and then step over and place your other 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.360 foot in the corner of the other section. And be like, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:26.360 I never stepped on private land. Correct, I corner hopped. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.280 The argument is in some people's eyes that you did, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.760 like your body passed your body even though your feet 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.160 never touched, your body passed through this person's space. So 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.400 there's an ongoing debate about whether you're corner hop or not. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.199 A lot of the stuff that we hunt kind of 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:48.080 like one of our hunting strategies in checkerboarded areas, which 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.400 when we're saying as even that you have mixed land ownership, 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.079 is to use maps to find areas of public land 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.280 that have very convoluted paths into them, where maybe you're 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.640 walking and you're walking on quarter sections and half sections, 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.120 a little weird strips of land and maybe caught into 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.440 a state chunk to get to chunks of land that 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:13.440 are not easily accessible by other mugs. Oftentimes you'll see 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.319 these big chunks of land that no mugs can get 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.440 too because there's no way into it. And so you're 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:23.920 talking about finding ways, whether it's cash or whatever incentives 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.920 to open those up or making the case that those 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.120 should be accessible to the public. Yeah, I think the 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.839 first thing is is willing seller willing buyer, right, I 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.520 mean nobody wants to force anybody into anything, and so 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.800 you know, using the land of Water Conservation Fund, using 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.480 easements or even fee title, you know, to get access 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.320 to a certain area. I think when we look at 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.440 corner crossing, that's one that I don't know if there's 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.720 incentives out there. You know, we had the stream access 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.760 law and the and the bridge access that got added 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.600 to that, which was definitely a help for landowners and 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.360 for like the users, and maybe we can figure something 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.560 like that out for corner crossing that would be beneficial 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.360 to both. But that's a that's a much tougher, tougher 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.360 thing when you think about it, just because of the 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.040 amounts of areas that are checkerboarded in this state. Yeah, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.480 and you got guys and and like you've got guys 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.080 who are like, sure, it's public, but why would I 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:14.760 want to, like I can just treat it like my 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.520 own little private area. Why would I want to let 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.120 you go on the land that I sort of claim 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:22.640 as my own, even though I don't pay ship for 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.880 taxes on it. You know, I feel like when you 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.000 say checkerboard two, it just sounds it's like a usual 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.040 loosely but in Montana, especially because I hunted in Colorado 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.240 for a dozen years and there are spots that you could, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.480 you know, you apply that term as well. But in Montana, 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.720 literally you can open up pages of the gazetteer and 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.839 look at it and it looks exactly like a check 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.560 it's yeah. And so my question, did you know, like 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.280 the history or the or like the genesis, how that 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.920 came to be where it was just so perfectly checkerboard 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.160 between private and public. A lot of that I think 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.840 was was back to like the railroads. That's when the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.080 roads came in there, they gave them so much property 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.680 and like to actually put the railroad through Montana, they said, 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.720 here's you know, here's an incentive for you, and so 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.200 you're gonna get some of this private land and then 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:11.720 we're gonna have a public land. You know, so you 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.559 get a certain amount. And I don't know the exact 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.520 details of that, but I'm pretty sure that it was 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.520 because of the railroad and in some areas they just 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:23.120 went literally like public private public, All right. So that's 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.920 the that's bucket number one. That's h Bucket number one 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.920 is access access an opportunity. The second one would be 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.040 back country conservation and so that's like at a national level, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.160 making sure that we have public policy that protects back 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.920 country areas. So when you think about like role this areas, um, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.440 trying to protect those places um with with law UM. 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.839 When you think about that's like where we work on 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.199 this national legislation, like the Land and Water Conservation Fund, 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.840 like just protecting and promoting like I guess, back country 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.720 at a federal level, which is a big, huge bucket, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.240 which I could talk about a lot of things that 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.320 we're doing there, but then it goes into like the 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.439 third bucket would be kind of place based back country conservation. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.199 So if you think about, you know, uh in Colorado, 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.800 be like Brown's Canyon, Montana, the Rocky Mountain Front, Idaho 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.080 Clearwater Basin Collaborative that we're working on the Clearwater Basin there, 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.200 And so that's more like places based stuff. And so 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.800 you look at a watershed, let's say, and I'll take 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:18.920 the clear water in Idaho. We worked with a TV users, loggers, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:23.200 county commissioners, other conservation organizations and said, here's this huge landscape. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.440 How can we get a path forward that maybe not 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.760 be perfect for everybody, but it's a path forward for everyone. 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.360 And so in that circumstance, we've come up with a 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.520 tentative agreement that has five hundred thousand acres in new wilderness, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.480 two hundred miles of wild and scenic river, two miles 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.560 of the longest continuous a TV route in the west, 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.000 and then increased timber harvest in the front country. Again, 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.520 is that perfect for everybody? Probably not, But does it 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.280 gives certainty and a path forward? Yes? And so this 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.200 has been, you know, a ten year process. We've been 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.960 engaged from the very beginning. And now that's kind of 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.240 moving to the Senator creepo and they're probably is going 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.520 to be legislation is introduced, actually codify that and and 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.600 so that's that kind of place space, like really boots 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.320 on the ground kind of you know, this is why 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.240 we want to do it here. So I would be 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.120 that third bucket. How many places would you say you're 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.720 looking at in in in the sense that it's like 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.600 been identified, that's on your radar for the place based stuff, 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.800 um and dozens or is it? So this last I 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.120 mean it was dozens and then this last fall the 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.960 Defense spending bill had a public lands package on it. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.000 We're about six of the places that we were working 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.120 on actually got put into that bill and passed, and 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.040 so I'd say it's cut in half now when we're 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.560 about six seven. But we're always I think there's a 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.520 place like we're looking at the boundary waters right now, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.840 there's a proposed mine, soulified mine, and the boundary waters 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.240 right now, which would you know obviously potentially have huge impacts. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.440 What do they want to go after? So well, you 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.400 know what the hell is so fed it's like it's 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.760 like it's it's a certain kind of mineral and exactly 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.840 what it's used for. But it's like, um, it's it's 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.760 it's pretty aggressive mining. I guess what they would do. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.400 And you know they talk about how that the clean 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.560 water would not be affective, but um, I don't think 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.800 there's a mine that you look at, even modern mining 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.760 that doesn't affect clean water. And so um that's the 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.760 bounty water is a place that we're looking at trying 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.680 to protect, right and and our members have identified because 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.560 that's a place where they still have that back country experience. 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.440 But there's a lot of protections in place of body 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.120 waters here there is, but this will be on the 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.360 outside of it, and so the potentially could actually affect it. Um, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.280 so i'd say, you know, a dozen to seven or 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.600 half a dozen to a seven or eight. But um, 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.520 you know we're always looking at areas and and not 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.840 necessarily does that have to be protected by wilderness, you know, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.040 I think there's other ways of protection. Like the Rocky 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.720 Mountain Front right now. Um, they got protected. You know 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.160 that that had different kind of protections that kept it 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.960 the way it is. And I think what we're trying 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.560 to protect and promote through these place based campaigns is 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.440 that experience and that salted the challenge and kind of 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.680 just that that type of hunting. You know that that 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.600 you could do anywhere, Um, if you protect those places 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.080 and that and I want to say anywhere. I mean 0:16:58.080 --> 0:16:59.600 I was just in the east and you know they're 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.560 back und He looks way different than what we have 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.560 here in Montana. In Alaska looks way different than what 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.680 we have here in Montana. But what that binding kind 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.000 of factor is that saltitude and the challenge of the hunt, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.080 right and if you can protect and promote those places, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.399 that's what we're trying to do. So I wish that 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.360 the kind of I know, we still got buckets four 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.600 and five to go. But I wish that the the 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:26.040 sort of land consciousness and the land ethic that fishermen 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.000 and hunters have in the West, sort of a spatial 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.960 awareness about their areas. I wish that that thinking was 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:41.679 a little more contagious and spread to some areas in 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.600 the East, because I think there there's this idea, like 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.240 where I grew up in Michigan, there's this idea that 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.600 sort of like the vestiges of wilderness that we have 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:57.680 left and the Upper Great Lakes like you don't really count. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.720 You sort of think of him as they're just there 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.960 by accident. They're just there because no one's gotten around 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.320 to doing something to them yet. Do you know what 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.480 I mean? And people know? I just feel like, like 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.920 when I say people, I'm generalizing. But growing up, there's 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.040 no you never it was just not part of hunting 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:17.679 and fishing culture to talk about, Man, we love this place. 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.040 What is the story up here? Like? What is going on? 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.000 What exactly is protecting this place? Do we have we 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.720 taken a look at what measures we have? Could it 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.000 get even better? Could we look at some areas that 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.040 that are just neglected right now and sort of bring 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.600 them into this wilderness area and extend this out. It's 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.479 like you never hear those conversations, but I'm sure they 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.040 happened to some degree. But it's not like here, It's 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.200 not like in the Rocky Mountains. But it's got to 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.160 be the just the amount of public land available, because 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.640 when I grew up hunting, I didn't even step foot 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.920 on public land until I moved to Colorado. I grew 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.040 up in Michigan. Did you hunt and trap al lot 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.399 on the public well? Because I grew up right on 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.000 the north and the man Stee you know Maneste National Force, 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.359 which you know it's a national force. But at the 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:13.080 same time, it was like just essentially no enforcement about 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.679 um a t V use, no enforcement about access. It 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.280 was just like free for all stuff, you know. And 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.239 it just seems that there's a much I don't know. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.399 It just seems like that people have a much stronger 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:33.000 sense of ownership of like public ownership, where you look 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:34.960 at public lands as being not just like something you 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:36.760 don't really understand, but you look at public lands and 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.679 being like, no, it belongs to me, man, it belongs 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.320 to us, and we have the right and the obligation 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.639 too as the public monitor what's going on on these lands. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.800 And I feel like in areas where I grew up 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.880 around the east of like that that's that that awareness 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.440 wasn't there yet. So it is good to hear that 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.480 backhunt under his angers. And I'm sure you're aware of 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.159 this seems like a very Western outfit. M hm. You know, 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.439