1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, this is the Meat Eater Podcast. We're recording 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: out of Bozeman, Montana. Sunny, beautiful, very dry right now 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bos and Montana. I'm joined by Long tong ANEI frequent guests, 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: the Lavian Lover, maker of Hunt Eat t shirts. UM, 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: if you haven't bought one the Honest T shirts, go 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: do it now. It's the only thing he gets out 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: of this. Also by uh Land Tawny of back Country 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers, which is a group I have a 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: conservation organization that I have admired the work of over 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: the last few years because I find that they're their 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: mission aligns well with with my uh take on conservation 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: issues and my take on hunting and fishing in public lands. 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: And along with a handful other conservation groups that I 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: like a lot. There you know one that I m 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: M try to be supportive of and encourage. You'll be 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: supportive of um Land. Like we have a long time 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: of talk right now, but I want you to in 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: super quick way. They got two questions for you kids, 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: that which one I want you to do first? First, 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: giving your hunting and fishing background, sure quickly don't two two? 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: UM explain b h A the mission of b h A. 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: You can dovetail two into one or you can just 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: do one then two. I'll do one and two, but 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: making my elevator speech on number two, so it's quick, okay. 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: So fifth generation Montana grew up hunting fishing, so that 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: that's back like seventies, eight seventies. First family members born 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: in Stevensville, Montana eighteen seventy two, so that was they 28 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: were incorporated as a town for their like in eighteen 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: seventy two, and my first family member was born there. 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: You know what, your coster died, uh eighteen seventy What 31 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: June eighteen seventy six. Okay, yeah, that's wild man. So 32 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: we have a family cabin that's down the East Fork 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: of the Bitter down there. It's been in the family 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: for a hundred years. It's awesome. But so I grew 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: up on the East Fork fishing like Sam fly hatch there, 36 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: um Sam fly hatch on the Bighole River. Very lucky. 37 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: We spent a week down there. My father, uh knew 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: some folks outside of Yellowstone Park on the Cinembar basin, 39 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: and so he used to hunt elk down there, and 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: I would I know, yeah, like Cindambar Mountain and stuff 41 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: and uh and so I would that later became like 42 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff some National Forest and something 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: belongs to Cut, right, Yeah, Cut bought some of that, 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: I mean that, and now Cut has transferred that over 45 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: to the Elk Foundation. Was then transferred over to the 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: National Forest so we can all hunt it now, Church 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: Universal Triumphant. It was a cult of sorts. Yeah, it 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: was like an apocalyptic colt based around what was her name, 49 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: like Mary Profit or something like that. And then her 50 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: husband got busted running guns from Idaho to Montana. They 51 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: had big, huge, uh silos full of all sorts of 52 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: stuff for Armageddon. They were like a post apocalyptic outfit. 53 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: But down there, I mean I grew up hunting behind 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: my dad where he'd be hiking up these steephills in 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: the snow, and literally I had to take, you know, 56 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: steps in his footsteps where I would not make it 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: because that was so small. And then my other favorite 58 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: thing I think growing up was duck hunting. And so 59 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: we had a place south of Missoula in the bed 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: Route Valley tell her wild left reff uge that my 61 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: dad helped set aside, and I put conservation he's been 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: on and when it got cold, that place was just 63 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: having for ducks. I mean they would you know, the 64 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: river freezes over and the only thing open the spring creeks, 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: and so you just have ducks piling in there. And 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: I remember as a kid, we'd show up and you know, 67 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: the whole there'd be a thunderous kind of awakening of 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: the marsh. They'd take off and then they come back 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: in fives and sixes and tents. And just watching my 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: dad work and the dog work was amazing. And he 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: let me bring my baby gun along and I think 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: I'd have a chance, but never would happen. So it's 73 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: been instilled to me at a young age. And then, uh, 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, growing up, I think, uh I probably got 75 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: away from hunting a little bit in high school just 76 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: because things got crazy. I was playing soccer in the fall, 77 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: and uh I was chasing girls. And then you know, 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: now song keepers, no keepers threw them all back. Um, 79 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: my wife's gonna love that, and uh, you know, and 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: but now, I mean, I think, you know, my late 81 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: like mid twenties, late twenties really started getting into hunting 82 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: fishing a lot more. And that's where you know, I 83 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: my father passed away when I was twenty and so 84 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: I was out in Seattle actually going to Seattle University, 85 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: and I came home and after my dad passed away, 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: and it was like this awakening again, you know, like 87 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: the outdoors and like figuring out that's what I wanted 88 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: to do in conservation and so um that hunting kind 89 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: of brought me there. And then my dad was the 90 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: the lawyer for the Elk Foundation when the first started 91 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: in the eighty five up in Troy, helped bring them 92 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: to Missoula. Was their lawyer until he passed away in 93 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: nine and then he was involved in conservation easements and 94 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: so that's definitely with the Elk Foundation, but also with 95 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: real quick explain conservation ease. I feel like a lot 96 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: of people they hear that, but they don't really know 97 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: what that means. Yeah, so it's on private land. Uh. 98 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: Private land owner decides that they want to protect the 99 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: resources on their on their private land, whether that's uh, 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, the ranching culture or just the kind of 101 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: wildlife habitat. So they work with a lawyer to draw 102 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: up what the covenants for that property can be, and 103 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: they could do it in perpetuity. So like my grandfather 104 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: that lives just outside of Missoula. He has about twenty 105 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: acres and they put a conservation eastment on there to 106 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: where he can't build any more houses on that land 107 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: and it can't be subdivided. And so no matter what, 108 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: when he you know, he's in his mid nineties right now, 109 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: when he passes away, and whoever that's passed on to 110 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: or sold to, that conservation easement goes along with him. 111 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: But they incentivize that with some tax credits. Yep. So 112 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: it's not I mean, it's not just one sided. I 113 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing though, I mean, the tax benefits 114 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: are great, but that's not what makes the deal. I 115 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: think what makes the deal for people is that, you know, 116 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: they we all see development happen all over this country, 117 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: and I think it breaks people's hearts over and over 118 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: and over again. And that ability to be able to 119 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: pass that on and know what's gonna be there far 120 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: into the future, I think it's what really sells that. 121 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Man, if you've got a place you're 122 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: in love with, you just hate to think of it 123 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: just getting trash later on in life. And I think 124 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, again, we've probably all seen places you know 125 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: that we used to hunt or used to recreate on 126 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: that are now subdivided, and you know you're never gonna 127 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: get that back. So what I like about those things is, uh, 128 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: you hear so much from opponents of conservation that anytime 129 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: you set land aside, it's like, oh yeah, it's like 130 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: the government cramming it down. You throw It's like ahead, 131 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: tell to these dudes, man, right their own private property. Yeah, 132 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's a private property, right, you know. I 133 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: mean they have the right to do that, and nobody 134 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: should tell him not to. So you know, well you 135 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: mentioned bitter. Like the way the ducks come in there. 136 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: We used to end at the end of duck season's 137 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: like December and January, when that rivers would start to freeze. 138 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: We'd float it in canoes and just sometimes I mean 139 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: it'd be like ridiculous. But you get those mornings where 140 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: uh was super cold, and so you get so much 141 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: steam coming off the river. You know, the air is 142 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: so much colder than the river, and like you pull 143 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: up on him because steam like it was so thick, 144 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, and all of a a sudden you realize that 145 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: you're sort of in the midst of it, like a 146 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: bunch of cann of the geese heads that some gravel 147 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: bar man. I just love doing it, but I know 148 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: that I don't tell her. That's still I mean, it's 149 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: still called tell her Wild. My dad helps set that 150 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: aside with Auto Teller and they put together about a 151 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: thousand acres there in the Better Root. It's pinched up 152 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: a couple of other big landowners and so it's a 153 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: it's a very special place. Yeah, alright, so haunting vision background. 154 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: You've been in mountain of your life all my life. 155 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 1: I went to Seattle for a year and a half 156 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: and uh, great town. But it's gonna be hard to 157 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: take him out of the state. So give me how 158 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: you got into like like telling what b h A is. 159 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: So b h A. Uh. We're a national organization and 160 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: we started around the campfire eleven years ago in Oregon. 161 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: Basically some people got together and said there wasn't an 162 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: organization focused on public policy around public lands and so 163 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: where the sports and voice for a wild public lands, 164 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: waters and wildlife. And what that means that it's kind 165 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: of separates us from everybody else is we're strictly advocacy 166 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: and strictly advocacy on public lands. We there's kind of 167 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: five buckets that we look at, and it's access and 168 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: opportunity is the first one, and so there's a lot 169 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: of different things that come into that, Like the sail 170 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: of public lands kind of falls under that piece. Trying 171 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: to get access to public lands that are isolated as 172 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: another one you're talking about there, you're talking about land 173 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: lock chunks of public land exactly. That's the thing that Yeah, 174 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: I want to talk about all this stuff, but explain 175 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: that real quick. So can I just real right correct 176 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong? Sure, there are big chunks of 177 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: publicly owned land. BLM, I don't think any national force. 178 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Is there any national force, some national force where all 179 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: the land around it's privately help and there's no easement 180 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: to it, right uh Um, it's open, should be, it's 181 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: available to the public. If you came in on a helicopter, 182 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: you can go in there, but there is no way 183 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: to get to it. So it's like we the people 184 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: own land that we don't have a way to get to. 185 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: That's the fact though. Private land is what it is. 186 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: And I think so that you describe that kind of 187 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: the don't in effect what you just did. But then 188 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: there's also a ton of land in Montown that's checkerboarded. 189 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: So you have you know BLM private BLM, and it's 190 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: all a checkerboard. And there's a big question of whether 191 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: you can cross corner hop corner crossing right and so 192 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, supposedly our shoulders when we cross that corner 193 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: are violating airspace and so we're trespassing. Now, if you 194 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: talk to some wardens, they're not going to mess with you, 195 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: but you talk to some private land hunters and they will, 196 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, go after you for trespass. So we've we've 197 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: always not corner hopped. It's that's a yeah. So corner 198 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: hop will be like let's let's say you're looking at 199 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: are looking at a map and you're looking at sections. Okay, 200 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: so I mean it doesn't always fall that cleanly, but 201 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: you have two corner sections, or you have two squares 202 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: of land, and they and they brought up only on 203 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: the corners. Now, if you have a GPS unit or 204 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: if the lands fence, then you can see the defence lines. 205 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: You can theoretically have one ft in the corner of 206 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: a section and then step over and place your other 207 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: foot in the corner of the other section. And be like, 208 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: I never stepped on private land. Correct, I corner hopped. 209 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: The argument is in some people's eyes that you did, 210 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: like your body passed your body even though your feet 211 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: never touched, your body passed through this person's space. So 212 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: there's an ongoing debate about whether you're corner hop or not. 213 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff that we hunt kind of 214 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: like one of our hunting strategies in checkerboarded areas, which 215 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: when we're saying as even that you have mixed land ownership, 216 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: is to use maps to find areas of public land 217 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: that have very convoluted paths into them, where maybe you're 218 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: walking and you're walking on quarter sections and half sections, 219 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: a little weird strips of land and maybe caught into 220 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: a state chunk to get to chunks of land that 221 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: are not easily accessible by other mugs. Oftentimes you'll see 222 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: these big chunks of land that no mugs can get 223 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: too because there's no way into it. And so you're 224 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: talking about finding ways, whether it's cash or whatever incentives 225 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: to open those up or making the case that those 226 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: should be accessible to the public. Yeah, I think the 227 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: first thing is is willing seller willing buyer, right, I 228 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: mean nobody wants to force anybody into anything, and so 229 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, using the land of Water Conservation Fund, using 230 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: easements or even fee title, you know, to get access 231 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: to a certain area. I think when we look at 232 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: corner crossing, that's one that I don't know if there's 233 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: incentives out there. You know, we had the stream access 234 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: law and the and the bridge access that got added 235 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: to that, which was definitely a help for landowners and 236 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: for like the users, and maybe we can figure something 237 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: like that out for corner crossing that would be beneficial 238 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: to both. But that's a that's a much tougher, tougher 239 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: thing when you think about it, just because of the 240 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: amounts of areas that are checkerboarded in this state. Yeah, 241 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: and you got guys and and like you've got guys 242 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: who are like, sure, it's public, but why would I 243 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: want to, like I can just treat it like my 244 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: own little private area. Why would I want to let 245 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: you go on the land that I sort of claim 246 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: as my own, even though I don't pay ship for 247 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: taxes on it. You know, I feel like when you 248 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: say checkerboard two, it just sounds it's like a usual 249 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: loosely but in Montana, especially because I hunted in Colorado 250 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: for a dozen years and there are spots that you could, 251 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, you apply that term as well. But in Montana, 252 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: literally you can open up pages of the gazetteer and 253 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: look at it and it looks exactly like a check 254 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: it's yeah. And so my question, did you know, like 255 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: the history or the or like the genesis, how that 256 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: came to be where it was just so perfectly checkerboard 257 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: between private and public. A lot of that I think 258 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: was was back to like the railroads. That's when the 259 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: roads came in there, they gave them so much property 260 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: and like to actually put the railroad through Montana, they said, 261 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: here's you know, here's an incentive for you, and so 262 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna get some of this private land and then 263 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a public land. You know, so you 264 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: get a certain amount. And I don't know the exact 265 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: details of that, but I'm pretty sure that it was 266 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: because of the railroad and in some areas they just 267 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: went literally like public private public, All right. So that's 268 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: the that's bucket number one. That's h Bucket number one 269 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: is access access an opportunity. The second one would be 270 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: back country conservation and so that's like at a national level, 271 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: making sure that we have public policy that protects back 272 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: country areas. So when you think about like role this areas, um, 273 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: trying to protect those places um with with law UM. 274 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: When you think about that's like where we work on 275 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: this national legislation, like the Land and Water Conservation Fund, 276 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: like just protecting and promoting like I guess, back country 277 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: at a federal level, which is a big, huge bucket, 278 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: which I could talk about a lot of things that 279 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: we're doing there, but then it goes into like the 280 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: third bucket would be kind of place based back country conservation. 281 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: So if you think about, you know, uh in Colorado, 282 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: be like Brown's Canyon, Montana, the Rocky Mountain Front, Idaho 283 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: Clearwater Basin Collaborative that we're working on the Clearwater Basin there, 284 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: And so that's more like places based stuff. And so 285 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: you look at a watershed, let's say, and I'll take 286 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: the clear water in Idaho. We worked with a TV users, loggers, 287 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: county commissioners, other conservation organizations and said, here's this huge landscape. 288 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: How can we get a path forward that maybe not 289 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: be perfect for everybody, but it's a path forward for everyone. 290 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: And so in that circumstance, we've come up with a 291 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: tentative agreement that has five hundred thousand acres in new wilderness, 292 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: two hundred miles of wild and scenic river, two miles 293 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: of the longest continuous a TV route in the west, 294 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: and then increased timber harvest in the front country. Again, 295 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: is that perfect for everybody? Probably not, But does it 296 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: gives certainty and a path forward? Yes? And so this 297 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: has been, you know, a ten year process. We've been 298 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: engaged from the very beginning. And now that's kind of 299 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: moving to the Senator creepo and they're probably is going 300 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: to be legislation is introduced, actually codify that and and 301 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: so that's that kind of place space, like really boots 302 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: on the ground kind of you know, this is why 303 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: we want to do it here. So I would be 304 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: that third bucket. How many places would you say you're 305 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: looking at in in in the sense that it's like 306 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: been identified, that's on your radar for the place based stuff, 307 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: um and dozens or is it? So this last I 308 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: mean it was dozens and then this last fall the 309 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: Defense spending bill had a public lands package on it. 310 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: We're about six of the places that we were working 311 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: on actually got put into that bill and passed, and 312 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: so I'd say it's cut in half now when we're 313 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: about six seven. But we're always I think there's a 314 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: place like we're looking at the boundary waters right now, 315 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: there's a proposed mine, soulified mine, and the boundary waters 316 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: right now, which would you know obviously potentially have huge impacts. 317 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: What do they want to go after? So well, you 318 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: know what the hell is so fed it's like it's 319 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: like it's it's a certain kind of mineral and exactly 320 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: what it's used for. But it's like, um, it's it's 321 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty aggressive mining. I guess what they would do. 322 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: And you know they talk about how that the clean 323 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: water would not be affective, but um, I don't think 324 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: there's a mine that you look at, even modern mining 325 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't affect clean water. And so um that's the 326 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: bounty water is a place that we're looking at trying 327 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: to protect, right and and our members have identified because 328 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: that's a place where they still have that back country experience. 329 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of protections in place of body 330 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: waters here there is, but this will be on the 331 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: outside of it, and so the potentially could actually affect it. Um, 332 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: so i'd say, you know, a dozen to seven or 333 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: half a dozen to a seven or eight. But um, 334 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: you know we're always looking at areas and and not 335 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: necessarily does that have to be protected by wilderness, you know, 336 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: I think there's other ways of protection. Like the Rocky 337 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: Mountain Front right now. Um, they got protected. You know 338 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: that that had different kind of protections that kept it 339 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: the way it is. And I think what we're trying 340 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: to protect and promote through these place based campaigns is 341 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: that experience and that salted the challenge and kind of 342 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: just that that type of hunting. You know that that 343 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: you could do anywhere, Um, if you protect those places 344 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: and that and I want to say anywhere. I mean 345 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: I was just in the east and you know they're 346 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: back und He looks way different than what we have 347 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: here in Montana. In Alaska looks way different than what 348 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: we have here in Montana. But what that binding kind 349 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: of factor is that saltitude and the challenge of the hunt, 350 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: right and if you can protect and promote those places, 351 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: that's what we're trying to do. So I wish that 352 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: the kind of I know, we still got buckets four 353 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: and five to go. But I wish that the the 354 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: sort of land consciousness and the land ethic that fishermen 355 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: and hunters have in the West, sort of a spatial 356 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: awareness about their areas. I wish that that thinking was 357 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: a little more contagious and spread to some areas in 358 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: the East, because I think there there's this idea, like 359 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: where I grew up in Michigan, there's this idea that 360 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: sort of like the vestiges of wilderness that we have 361 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: left and the Upper Great Lakes like you don't really count. 362 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: You sort of think of him as they're just there 363 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: by accident. They're just there because no one's gotten around 364 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: to doing something to them yet. Do you know what 365 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean? And people know? I just feel like, like 366 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: when I say people, I'm generalizing. But growing up, there's 367 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: no you never it was just not part of hunting 368 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: and fishing culture to talk about, Man, we love this place. 369 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: What is the story up here? Like? What is going on? 370 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: What exactly is protecting this place? Do we have we 371 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: taken a look at what measures we have? Could it 372 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: get even better? Could we look at some areas that 373 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: that are just neglected right now and sort of bring 374 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: them into this wilderness area and extend this out. It's 375 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 1: like you never hear those conversations, but I'm sure they 376 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: happened to some degree. But it's not like here, It's 377 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: not like in the Rocky Mountains. But it's got to 378 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: be the just the amount of public land available, because 379 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: when I grew up hunting, I didn't even step foot 380 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: on public land until I moved to Colorado. I grew 381 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: up in Michigan. Did you hunt and trap al lot 382 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: on the public well? Because I grew up right on 383 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: the north and the man Stee you know Maneste National Force, 384 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: which you know it's a national force. But at the 385 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: same time, it was like just essentially no enforcement about 386 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: um a t V use, no enforcement about access. It 387 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: was just like free for all stuff, you know. And 388 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 1: it just seems that there's a much I don't know. 389 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: It just seems like that people have a much stronger 390 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: sense of ownership of like public ownership, where you look 391 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: at public lands as being not just like something you 392 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: don't really understand, but you look at public lands and 393 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: being like, no, it belongs to me, man, it belongs 394 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: to us, and we have the right and the obligation 395 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: too as the public monitor what's going on on these lands. 396 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: And I feel like in areas where I grew up 397 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: around the east of like that that's that that awareness 398 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: wasn't there yet. So it is good to hear that 399 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: backhunt under his angers. And I'm sure you're aware of 400 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: this seems like a very Western outfit. M hm. You know, 401 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: it's born out of the West. It's a young group. 402 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: It's like it's run out of the West. But I'm 403 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: glad to hear that, like to apply that, to apply 404 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: your thinking to the boundary waters, and I would hold 405 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: a whole lot of other places in the eastern US. Yeah. 406 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: So we have a chapter in Minnesota, and that's why 407 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, we're able to kind of focus there. We 408 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: have a chapter now in New York and in Pennsylvania, 409 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: and then a chapter of that covers the six New 410 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: England states. We still want to start one in northern 411 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: Michigan and the up. We're having a lot of talk 412 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: about that, and I would say Steve that we've grown 413 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: so fast in the last couple of years. We're trying 414 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: to keep up right now. And so I mean, I 415 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: think where there's opportunities and where people and we can 416 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: gather together, like a place like Michigan, I think we 417 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: can you know, start another chapter there, but I will 418 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: tell you that we're trying to hold onto that horse 419 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: right now and keep them on the track. Yeah. I mean, 420 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: it's which is a great problem to have, right because 421 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: if we get too big too fast, which is you know, 422 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: kind of good problem to have, but then you can't 423 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: manage that, right. But literally, just coming back from Vermont 424 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: last week where I met with those three kind of 425 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: Eastern chapters, I mean we're having these exact conversations. And 426 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: one of the things, you know, if you look at 427 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: that map which your honest just talked about, is that 428 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, the West has way more public land than 429 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: the East, but there is still these bastions of public 430 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: land in the East that need that kind of stewardship, 431 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: I think is what you're talking about, um, And and 432 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: not only need that stewardship, but there's are also opportunities 433 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: within like private land trust let's say, you know that 434 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: that have large bodies of property out in the East 435 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: that don't necessarily allow hunting, and so trying to work 436 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: with them to open up places, you know where it's 437 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: all walking hunting. So they still have that challenge and 438 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: kind of the experience that we're all looking for. But 439 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: opens up this that's private land, that's that becomes more 440 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: public access to it. So um, but I think, you know, 441 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, I think that it's 442 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: inherent here in the West, and it's partly because we 443 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: we still have public land, you know. That's that's and 444 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: somebody tries to take that away, and that's where people 445 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: get really fired up. Um yeah, moving out here, you 446 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: get educated on public land real quick. I feel like 447 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: it's a big it's a big part of life. But 448 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: I think that it's also I don't think it's just 449 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: simply a matter of there being more public land out here, 450 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. And then another thing that that similars 451 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: where up we have like big navigable rivers, okay, in 452 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: huge navigable lakes. The minute you get on those lakes 453 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: and rivers, you're on public land. It doesn't matter who 454 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: owns the banks, okay, so you can be on there 455 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: and cruise around. Um. I think that developing the mind 456 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: frame of thinking of those things, like thinking of lakes, 457 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: thinking of rivers as being public land. You know, it's 458 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: just like I mean, I'm not saying something concrete here. 459 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: I just feel that, um, I just encourage people that 460 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: hunting fish in the east, and you might be listening 461 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: to this podcast in the east where I'm from. Two 462 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: kind of like listen to the way you're talking about 463 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: taking care of hunting and fishing land and realize that 464 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: this isn't just the Western discussion, right, you know, Like 465 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: the same way we might talk about a mountain range here, 466 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: you can be talking about your river at home. I mean, 467 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: like these same sort of ideas, the same sort of 468 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: sense of ownership, the same sort of like watching your 469 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: own back and seeing what has happened to the places 470 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: you care about, you know, and what more can you 471 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: do to help the place you care about, and not 472 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: just have this attitude that when it goes to ship, 473 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: that was just how the how stuff happens, how it goes, 474 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's about a new place. You know. 475 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: The reason that we have what we have here in 476 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: the West is because people have been stepping up for 477 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: like a hundred and fifty years and trying to make 478 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: sure that we have that continuing. And I think you 479 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: know that's that can be said for a print kind 480 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: of conservation in general. But I think that there's there's 481 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: definitely that feeling from folks in the East, but they 482 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 1: feel like they've I think lost a lot of that. 483 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: But I think you bring up rivers and stream access 484 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: is such a convoluted thing and it's so different from 485 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: state to state, but it is a place where you 486 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: can go and uh and experience that kind of you know, 487 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: that that challenge and that solitude that only like a 488 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: rivers can do. You have a ringer that sounds like 489 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: a mallard. Before we get to uh, buckets four or five, 490 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: we'll take a quick break and'll be right back alright, 491 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: so Land, give me just a recap. Now, make sure 492 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: I'm paying attention. Bucket number one, Access and the opportunity. 493 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: Bucket number two general, how do you how do you describe? 494 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: I know Bucket number three is like specific place based, 495 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: so I didn't describe too as much, but it's like 496 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: backcountry conservation. So I would put like the clear water 497 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: or the clean water acting ok at that right, So 498 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: it's like these big, huge things that happen out in 499 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: d C that that are broadly applied exactly. Bucket number four, 500 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: buck number spots for Steve. Bucket number four Bucket number 501 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: four would be uh illegal h v us. And so 502 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: I drove my truck here. You know, I think everybody drives, 503 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, somewhere sometime. But it's about that illegal use. 504 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: I think that that gets our hackles up. And you 505 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: know it's it's about l security, it's about um, you know, 506 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: your security. It's about sediment and streams when illegal stuff happens. Yeah, 507 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: and it's screw. It's like here now, I want to 508 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: clear I'm not speaking for b h A. Okay, when 509 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: I say what I'm gonna say, like I'm not. This 510 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: is not Landni talking. This is Steve Ronell talking, who's 511 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: not paid by b h A. I don't speak for 512 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: b h A. All right, it's just me talking. The 513 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: four wheelers stuff is out of control in the illegal 514 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: use thing in my mind, and this argument that we're 515 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: gonna run out of places to drive vehicles strikes me 516 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: as being absurd. There are so many places the ride vehicles, 517 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: and there are places that legally ride vehicles that I 518 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: don't understand why any law abiding citizen gets irritated, any 519 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: law abiding oh B user, which I would account myself 520 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: as one of, Okay, why they get irritated when they 521 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: hear about curtailing illegal four wheeler use. It's not attack 522 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: on your quad runner. It's an attack on doing illegal 523 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: ship right. It's like poaching, right, And it's like if 524 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: I say we shouldn't poach, why would a dude who 525 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: likes to hunt but doesn't poach get pissed? But the 526 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: it seems like four wheeler folks, and again, man, I 527 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: use them, but seems like four wheeler folks get like 528 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: mad when they hear that someone wants to start enforcing 529 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: illegal use, like it's an attack on quads. I don't 530 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: think that busting poachers is an attack on hunting. I 531 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: think it's helping hunting. Now Lantoni will speak about actual stuff, 532 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: all right. That was not That was not Lantoni talking. 533 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: That was not. But I mean I think we all 534 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: shared some the same sentiment, right, I mean, I think, 535 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: I mean one of the reasons why illegal a TV 536 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: us is a hot topic is because we've all been 537 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: behind the gate two hours hiking it's been dark, and 538 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: that a TV comes. You hear that murmur, and all 539 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden there's an a TV coming up right 540 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: up the trail that you just were dude, I approach them. Yeah, 541 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: there's the area we hunt turkeys, and man, I go 542 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: up to him. You know, university. I don't care how 543 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: many signs that there are saying it. I don't care 544 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: how many signs they drove over, right, So I didn't 545 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: realize always it's like, dude, I know, you know, man. 546 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: And so one of the turns that we're trying to 547 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: get out there is we have a reward. So you know, 548 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: the penalties for illegal a TV us aren't that high. 549 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's joke. It's a lot of times 550 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: to slap on the wrist, right most guys will gladly 551 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: pay double of fine to you know, be able to 552 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: drive their a TV and part of doing business right 553 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: like there. And so I think, you know, we're working 554 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: trying to state legislature, state legislature UM to try to 555 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: increase those fines or but one of the things that 556 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: we're doing is providing a reward right now, So if 557 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: you get if you see somebody that's doing something illegal 558 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: when your turkey hunting, and you get like a license 559 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: plate or you get like some kind of identification, able 560 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: to turn that into the local. But yeah, it's hard 561 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: to get that, try to get that stuff. Oh yeah, no, 562 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: it's and it's and and and that's another one that's 563 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: kind of interesting is that the um that it's fought 564 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: is identical identification that you can actually see right when 565 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: you when you see a boat, you know, out on 566 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: the lake, they have that identification like to stick around 567 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: it and you can see that from a long way. 568 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: It's color coded, so you can tell if it's out 569 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: the data that exactly. And so why can't you do 570 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: that for a t V S and so? And I 571 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: don't get it, Like I mean, I would be a 572 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: good conversation to have with you know, a TV users 573 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: on why they won't support, like you know, identification UM. 574 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: But if you actually do UM some investigating, like you know, 575 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: and are able to take some pictures or whatever and 576 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: turn that person in, we'll give you a five award. 577 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: We've given out four this year, so not a lot, 578 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: but we get a lot of play and we put 579 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: sometimes we put that in the regulation books just so 580 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: people are aware of it. And so I think that's 581 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: a deterrent. And then another thing that we're doing is 582 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: when we do see a t V S park that 583 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: the trailhead which is great, right, I mean that they 584 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: use that just like I took my truck. We'll give 585 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: them like a little thing that says thank you, and 586 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: then i'll beer opener can opener that has a B 587 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: H A signature on it. So it's like we're trying, 588 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, what we're doing kind of both right, Like 589 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: we're we're I guess I would say three legged stool. 590 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out better ways for enforcement in 591 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: places where they probably shouldn't be. And then we're trying 592 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: to have something to trent with that reward. And again, 593 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: I think that's more a public outreach than it is 594 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: actual on the ground. And that third piece is like 595 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: thinking people for doing the right thing. And um, you know, 596 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,239 Speaker 1: I mean I think that it's not an issue that's 597 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: gonna go away. It's probably gonna get worse. And um, 598 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: I would love to see industry step up even more 599 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: and talk about this responsible use. I think you do 600 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: see it. Um, it's pretty prevalent. But what is different 601 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: is everybody talks about doing the right thing, but then 602 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: they don't want to address people doing the wrong thing. 603 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: So when people are doing the wrong thing, we're not 604 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: increasing fines Like if you had your a TV taken 605 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: away from you in the woods, and it was like 606 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: your third offense, let's say, by being behind the gate. 607 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: That's pretty like that's that's not your slap on the 608 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: wrist anymore. That's that's a that's a big thing. And 609 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: so I think I found a guy who's three times 610 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: been bosted with an illegal ELK. Yeah, something's gonna be 611 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: in jail. Yeah. So I mean, I think that's about 612 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: increasing fines. And I think a lot of times, you know, 613 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: gets to a judge and he's like, seriously, this is 614 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: taking my time, Like you know, I'm just gonna give him. 615 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: But I think awareness needs to be creative. That's partly 616 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do. That's our fourth bucket. The 617 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: fifth one is kind of harder to fund. I think 618 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: it's different probably for all three of us in this room, 619 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: and that's fair chase hunting. And I've heard it described 620 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: that we all kind of we all have different perspectives 621 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: on fair chase, but we all know something when we 622 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: see it that isn't right. And so one thing that 623 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: we've jumped on is drones. And so when you know, 624 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: drones started becoming more prevalent, not just for military, but 625 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: for civilian use. Uh. There started to be problems up 626 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: in Alaska, Colorado, Montana where folks were using drones to 627 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: track animals and then go kill them. And and so 628 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: we decided to get out in front of that early. 629 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: And so, UM, we started working with state fish and 630 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: game agencies or state legislatures to ban these for hunting 631 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: and scouting. And we've gotten We've done it in eight 632 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: states now states. Um. So we've got Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Oregon, 633 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: Vermont New Hampshire, Alaska, which is seven um. And then 634 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: I think we're working on it in Arizona right now. 635 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: And I'm sure if it's done yet. I love because 636 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: it's like yeah, yea, yeah, yeah, I love it. No 637 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: states like Alaska, Montana like like great hunt states but 638 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: with a very conservative minded populace. Who um, I just 639 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: can see that that's not good business, right. The drones 640 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: aren't good business, you know for the hunting world. Takes 641 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: away of the experience of the hunt because so often, 642 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: and this is something I want to talk about with 643 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: you a little bit. UM. It might be uncomfortable for 644 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: you to talk about, but it's so often enemies of 645 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: conservation often try to paint um conservation measures as being 646 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: sort of like these veiled left wing conspiracies, do you 647 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: know what I mean that we're like talking about hunting, 648 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: but what we're really talking about is like stealing your freedom, 649 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, or like governments shoving it down your throat, right, 650 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, because it's just the way they're 651 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: afraid of it, and they want to beat it. Right. 652 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: They don't want to have like not that they hate 653 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: clean water and clean air and good land, but just 654 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: that they don't want anything to stand in the way 655 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: of them doing pursuing their own personal gains. You know. 656 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: It's so when you see something like the drones thing 657 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: come up, it's been encouraging to see the way states 658 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: that on areas outside of conservation are very conservative states 659 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,239 Speaker 1: realizing that this like seeing that for what it is. 660 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: It's not like this unwelcome intrusion of government, but just saying, 661 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: you know what, that's just not for us. It's not 662 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 1: good business. It is not good for the business of hunting. 663 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, so you have drones now, 664 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: but I mean that's why hunters stepped up a hundred 665 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: years ago when there was market killing on I mean 666 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: like this is nothing new. Hunters have continued to step up, 667 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: and so I think that, yeah, it's like self there's 668 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: like a there's a concept bit of self policing. Yeah, 669 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: and that piece that you talked about how it's like 670 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: kind of this veiled attempted by you know, the government, 671 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: or there's green radicals like shut things down, Like that's 672 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: just a tactic that's been used again for a hundred years. 673 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: And so it's it's I think, you know, there's these 674 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: hunter conservationists which are why we have what we have today, 675 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: and and they're they're still going to be the same 676 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: arguments that happened around Roosevelt's time, but they're just new now. 677 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: I mean, drones is obviously a new thing. Um, But 678 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: I've been I've been real pleased with our chapter is 679 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: jumping on that this issue because they've they've done it. 680 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: I think you know another one we're looking at right now, 681 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: which is high fence hunting, and you know, I mean, 682 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: I know how you feel about that. You know, we 683 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: took care of that in Montana by making it illegal 684 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: to charge for hunts. You know, they I think there's 685 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: still two that are left. They're actually raising them for meat. Yeah, 686 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: that was that passed by what se keep keep Elk 687 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: wild and free vote for I And I mean what 688 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: a great campaign it was. It was like overwhelming. Oh yeah, 689 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: and I think and so that's like you know, you 690 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: talk about, you know, these honey numbers that are going down, 691 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, as far as the populace, but this is 692 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: an area where everybody understands that that's not hunting. And 693 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: you know that's a it's a long discussion about about 694 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: high fences and but that's probably fair chase. Thing I'm 695 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: telling you about is that that's one of our buckets 696 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: that we look at, but it's really hard to the find. Yeah, 697 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: let me let me. I want to speak to that 698 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: for me because it is complicated and this is the 699 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: one bucket you have where it doesn't make me nervous, 700 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: but it's to me, it's not as clear cut. It's 701 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: some other issue. And and and I'll just share the story 702 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: that I've told many times. I was one time in 703 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: South Carolina hunting with a friend of mine who has 704 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: a blind, a deer blind that they called the condo. Okay, 705 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: he purchased some timber company land thick scrubby ground and 706 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: put in these long four hundred yard five hundred yard 707 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: long food plots that radiate out from the condo like 708 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: the spokes of a wheel. The condo is at the hub. Okay, 709 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: it's a big blind with rolling chairs, heaters, fridge sliding windows, 710 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: lead sleds and they sit in the condo hunting deer 711 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: and they got the yardage is marked out in each 712 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: of the food pots. I'm up there hunt with them, 713 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: and I'm telling him about how I'm gonna go out 714 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: to Arizona to hunt dry ground lions with UH, a 715 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: lion hunter. And there's two kind of mountain lion hunting. 716 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: There's lion hunt in the snow where the snow the 717 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: tracks of snow indicate the size of the cat, what 718 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: direction the cat was going, and usually how long ago 719 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: the cat came through. There's dry ground lion hunting where 720 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna find a track, there's a chance of 721 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: dogs and go in the wrong direction, and it's a 722 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: very difficult type of hunting. I'm explaining to my body 723 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: in the condo about what I'm going out to do. 724 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: He turns his UH swivel chair to me and says, now, 725 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: what is the challenge? And shooting a lion out of 726 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: a tree. Right. It's like your perspective on fair chase 727 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: is heavily influenced by what the guys in your area do. 728 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: You got guys in the South have been running deer 729 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: with dogs for hundreds of years. It's a traditional use, right, 730 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: just traditional hunting use. In the North, you talk about 731 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: a guy sees a dog chasing deer, the dog gets shot. 732 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: If you went and try to put a law in 733 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,919 Speaker 1: in Michigan saying you could hunt deer dogs, it would 734 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: be universally despised. Okay. So there's a tremendous regionality to 735 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: these issues. So when people talk about fair chase, I 736 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: think we all like the idea of it, you know, 737 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: but it gets really difficult to start telling people what 738 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: is what and to have us all agree on certain principles. 739 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: So even though I give it lip service, when it 740 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: comes down to it, it gets to be very difficult. 741 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: Like we used to, like when I was a kid, 742 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: we'd like to cut a big hole in the ice 743 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: of spearfish to the ice. You know, someone not familiar 744 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: with that, it's gonna look at that practice and be like, 745 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm like, you sit there and when 746 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: the fish comes down, you jab with a spear. Traditional use. 747 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: You know. I keep harping on this idea of traditional 748 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: use because I think that one key to sorting this 749 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: out is what are traditional socially acceptable practices? You know, Um, 750 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if you spent much time, but I 751 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: spend time hunting in Texas. It's a very different situation 752 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: that they're dealing with in Texas. You know, it just 753 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: gets hard now. I want to say that and then 754 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: let you continue out. But it's like that's one thing 755 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: that I hear and I always get a little bit 756 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: like wow. Because when they were just trying to ban 757 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: hunting bears with dogs in Maine, what's your shot down? 758 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: How are they selling it? It's not ethical town of 759 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: bears and dogs? Main that was the terminology they were using. 760 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: A friend of mine recently sent me a paper where 761 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: this guy is pushing this idea. Let's just stop. Let's 762 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: just change the terminology and talk about not fair chase 763 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: or athletes were talking about fair take, you know, because 764 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: the thing we get into and again I want to 765 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: clear by this is not Landown any talking. This is 766 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: me and I'm talking with land I don't represent b 767 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: h A But the thing we get into is, um, 768 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: the more we open up stuff and the more technology 769 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: comes in to increase efficacy on the part of hunters. 770 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, like you can use drones, 771 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: you have a rifle that's capable of shooting a mile. Um, 772 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff comes up. Hunter efficacy grows up. 773 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: It becomes easier to hunt. Two things are gonna happen 774 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: that you're improving the pump without improving the well. Okay, 775 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: you gotta bucket of water. You gotta you got water, 776 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 1: and you gotta pump. You're making the pump pump faster, 777 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: but the tank of water don't get bigger. When that happens. 778 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: As efficacy increases through technology or through other practices, you're 779 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: gonna do two things shortened seasons or reduced number of 780 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: tags generally because we're talking about shooting the same killing 781 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: the same amount of stuff. Right. Um, all this stuff 782 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: plays into this conversation we're having about drones or any 783 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: number of technologies or any number of fair chase issues. 784 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: With all that said, me like teeing that up continue 785 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: the conversation, but I wanted to like demonstrate the complexity 786 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: what we're talking about Yeah, So I think I've heard 787 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: a fair chase describe. One way, which I think is 788 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: helpful to think about, is that fair chase, Like it 789 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter to the animal, right, Like the animal 790 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: can be shot at five yards with a recurve or 791 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: at a mile with a smart rifle. Right, I mean 792 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: that animal is still dead. He doesn't really equally plausible 793 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: in either case, yes, which is a good example, right, Um, 794 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: But what I like when we start thinking about that 795 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: fair is it fair to the hunt in the hunter? Right? 796 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: And so I think you know, you're getting to that 797 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 1: piece like where things become easy, which I think is technology. 798 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,959 Speaker 1: And maybe that's just the way that's the world works 799 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: as you try to do things easier and faster. But 800 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: are you cheating yourself out of that hunt? Right? And 801 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: like what the hunt is? And I think that's the 802 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: way for me to think about it. And so when 803 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: you think about drones in particular, like there's nothing about 804 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: fair chase and like and that being a hunt besides 805 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: maybe being very skillful at flying, you're droning up in 806 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: the air and finding those animals, being like shrewd and 807 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: technologically savvy, being good at megan money right, right, so 808 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: you have a bunch of them, you know, and and 809 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,479 Speaker 1: and so I like, I think it would be hard 810 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: for for anybody to defend drones for hunting. And and 811 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 1: that's why I think we've we've been able to, you know, 812 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: have the success we have at this state level. Yeah, 813 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: that's like a clear that's a clear case. And it's 814 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: a clear case large because it's new. It's something new, 815 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: it's something new that we're looking at, like is this 816 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: the director we want to take this. It's define herbal 817 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: it's new, it hasn't caught on yet. It's the perfect 818 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: thing for people to sort of get a grip on 819 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: it because it doesn't get into traditional practice. Yeah. And 820 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: another example of that was was the one attacks where 821 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: they were allowing you to shoot animals through the Internet 822 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: from your desk, from your desk, you know, eat very 823 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: easily shot down. One that's not that's very different is 824 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: like the radio use. You know, it's like say Alaska 825 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: to Montana or no, I guess Montana you can't either 826 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: Alaska you can't, but you can. Yeah, like in in Alaska, 827 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: you cannot use two way communications of any sort to 828 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: assist in a hunt. To which to mean to use 829 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: it to communicate, like the whereabouts a game to get 830 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: someone in on an animal in Arizona, that's become this 831 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: is a bold statement. That's become like they the day 832 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: factor way to hunt, multiple guys with radios talking people 833 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: in the game. I remember Montana banned two a communications 834 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: during a hunt at all, and then the next year 835 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: adjusted it to be this, you use it up to 836 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: open it up, that you could use it for safety 837 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: and stuff, and just couldn't use to assist game, which 838 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: seems like a very fair way to handle. I think 839 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 1: it's a little bit. I think it's overreaching just to 840 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: come in and say like you can't have to like 841 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 1: I can't be out hunting my kid. I can't hand 842 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: my kid a radio to tell me if he's got 843 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: a major problem he's dealing with. There's different than me 844 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: talk walking my kid up into an animal so he 845 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: can kill just over that next ridge. And I got 846 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: good friends, man like well meaning dudes, conservation minded guys 847 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: who who in Arizona what they do all they do 848 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: is warter people into stuff on radios, you know, So 849 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: I think, I mean partly what we're trying to do 850 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: here is creates this conversation that we're having right now. 851 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: What is fair chase to you? And I try to 852 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: like define that, And again, I think it's probably different 853 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: for all three of us in this room. I think 854 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: it's probably very similar, but probably different. We got down 855 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: talking to it. Yeah, when you get down, when you 856 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,800 Speaker 1: get down to the when you get down to the 857 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: nuts and bolts, um And I think the best way 858 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: to discuss it is to discuss it the way we're doing. 859 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: We're like, let's sit down, talk about radios, let's sit down, 860 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: talk about Jones, listen on talk offenses. Yeah, it's important 861 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: to remember that it's okay to have the discussion. You know, 862 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: so often I feel like now we're getting chastise for 863 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,879 Speaker 1: even like having the conversation. It's like, look, man, we're 864 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,439 Speaker 1: just talking about it. No, you know, nobody's getting mad. 865 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: Like it's okay to talk. There's two ways of looking 866 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: at it, um is or not. Two ways look at it. 867 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: Two ways I hear it discussed. One is that any 868 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: amount of like in the hunting world, any amount of 869 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: internal policing, er internal talking, is tantamount to playing into 870 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 1: the hands of the anti Yeah, we're all in this together. 871 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: And like we're on this boat together, And I said 872 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: another podcast, I'm like, yeah, we're on this boat together, 873 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,800 Speaker 1: So don't be chopping holes through the bottom of the boat. Dude, 874 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna sink the boat. So lowest common denominator, is 875 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: that what we really want? Yeah? So it's like there's that, 876 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm and I'm sensitive to that. And 877 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: the thing that bothers me by a lot of these 878 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: issues is it becomes a matter of terminology hunting and suthing. 879 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: I care a great deal about I've written about it. 880 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: I've dedicated my life to it. It's it's like outside 881 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: of family matters, it's like the thing that matters to 882 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: me right. Um, what I've been bothered by is when 883 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: people take the terminology and take the rights of hunting 884 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: and apply them to things that I clearly are not. 885 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: I point out this case reason, like, my brother has 886 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: some irrigated pasture. He keeps lamas for hunting. He likes 887 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: to use lamas hunting out in the mountains, but he 888 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: has a bunch of irrigated pasture. He's out of town 889 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: a lot in order to encourage his friends to come 890 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: over and check on his lamas. When he's out of town. 891 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: He lets his friends run lambs, run sheep on his pasture. 892 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 1: They come out to check on their lambs, they check 893 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: on the llamas. It's this great deal. And so he's 894 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: got any given time, I don't know, a dozen lamps. 895 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: He gave me a lamb recently, I you know, and 896 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 1: I don't get a way to catch the lamb. We 897 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: go out and just shot the lamb. Okay, inside of fence. 898 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 1: Was that an unethical thing to go and shoot livestock 899 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: inside of a fence? No? No, we're harvesting livestock. We 900 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 1: ate the lamb. It's like, that's it's farming, farming, ranch, 901 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: whatevery wanna call it? Do I then apply the terminology 902 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: of hunting to that and somehow try to drape that 903 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: activity is hunting. It's like, that's nothing to do with hunting. 904 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: You know. I didn't then go get dressed up in 905 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: the camouflage suit and take a bunch of gripping grins 906 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: with the lamb and act like something happened that didn't happen. 907 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,479 Speaker 1: We're shooting hot livestock. So what bugs me a little 908 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: bit is like people act like they oh that you 909 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: think it's It's like we're not talking about athics when 910 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: we're talking about shooting stuff, shooting livestock inside fences. But 911 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: why do they insist on dressing it up with something 912 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: that it is not When guys do opt to go 913 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: like kill you know, wildlife inside fences, why are they 914 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,800 Speaker 1: so uncomfortable with what they're doing that they're like hiding 915 00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: the fence all the time. If that's what you do, 916 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 1: I think you take your picture up against the big 917 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 1: damn fence, you know. That's uh, Like why I don't 918 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: understand why they don't own it? Right, Yeah, it's like, 919 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: if you like doing it, do it, dude. But again 920 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: and again, I've watched shows where they're hunting on high 921 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 1: wire and they're so embarrassed about the high wire. So 922 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: it's like, if you're so embarrassed about the high wire, 923 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: don't do it inside the high wire? Were you shamed of? 924 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: But I think it so like it gets down to 925 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: that that they want to do it the easiest, fastest way, 926 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: and then they'll tell the story about something else, right, 927 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: Like the guy who buys the sixteen thousand dollar tag 928 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,879 Speaker 1: goes and kills his big bull in Idaho, goes back 929 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: to wherever he came from puts that bull on the wall. 930 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: He does not tell that story that he shot him 931 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: behind the fence. He tells some other story and and so, 932 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: but he wants to be part of that hunting culture 933 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: that you know, I shot this big ball, and that's 934 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: why he does it that way because it's the quickest 935 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: and easiest way to Yeah, like he admires the culture 936 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 1: and he wants the acceptance. But just like, isn't comfortable. Yeah, 937 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: it's and I don't even know where. I don't know 938 00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: like what we're talking about. I don't know how it 939 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: every sends in the legislation and stuff. But it's just 940 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: something I see and it's something that I ponder all 941 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: the time. And maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't have 942 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: the opportunity to have the experiences that you and I do, 943 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 1: like on public land, where that there is that challenge, right, Like, 944 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: maybe he gets hooked up with somebody that's like, hey, 945 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: let's go hunt the West, and this is that's the 946 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: only thing he's exposed to and that's the only thing 947 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,760 Speaker 1: he knows. And so I think that that's part of 948 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: a conversation like this, and probably like what we're trying 949 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: to do is No, there's this other thing out there 950 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 1: that you can still tap into the way hunting has 951 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: been for eons on public land if you want to 952 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: do that, And I think there's an appetite for that. 953 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons, you know, why back 954 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,560 Speaker 1: country Hunters and Anglers is resonating so much is that 955 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: people aren't looking for the cheapest, easiest way anymore. It's 956 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: like it's about that journey that gets you there, So 957 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 1: that challenge and that adventure, like that's more of the 958 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 1: story than you know, that animal on the wall. You know. 959 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: I want to I want to point out real quickly too, 960 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: when we're talking about um fencing up servants, it's a 961 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: much bigger issue. Again, this is not the Steve talking. 962 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: We're talking about fencive service is a much bigger issue 963 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: because I might say, deer and elk running game farms. 964 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about like, oh, is ethical not to 965 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:10,280 Speaker 1: kill his anvileside game farms. You have tremendous disease transmission 966 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: issues going on with these and proven cases where you 967 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 1: have communicable diseases that are within domestic herds, within cage 968 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: herds that are living in very close proximity to one 969 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: another have been exposed all manner things, either escaping or 970 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,800 Speaker 1: transmitting the disease to deer and elk that can't help themselves, 971 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,319 Speaker 1: but to come up and stick their nose through that 972 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: fence and rub noses with the tame with the domestic ones. 973 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: It's not just an issue of like, it's not a 974 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: morality play. It's an issue of do we value our 975 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: wild deer and elk? And is a guy's right to 976 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: make a few bucks selling deer and elk greater than 977 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,479 Speaker 1: our right to have disease free hurts? Disease free hurts. 978 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: And that's also genetics, right. I mean, it's not about 979 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 1: kind of if those animals are gonna get out. It's 980 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,799 Speaker 1: like when you know, and I remember cases of a 981 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: guy in uh In, Idaho, Rex Rambo, who had a 982 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: big game farm and big winner. A couple of fences 983 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,839 Speaker 1: go down. He's got Roosevelt elk now mixing with Rocky 984 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 1: Mountain elk like right there, like during the rut, and 985 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: and and and the fishing game comes in and tries 986 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 1: to shoot them from helicopters. He's hazing them back into 987 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: the woods and so that they can't be shot. I 988 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,879 Speaker 1: mean it's just this ridiculous thing that that yes they're 989 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,800 Speaker 1: shooting them there, which we've talked about, Yes there's that 990 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: disease factor, but then there's also this this huge thing 991 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,279 Speaker 1: about passing on those genes, you know, and mixing kind 992 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: of herds, which is a travesty to me. Yeah, it's 993 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: the same issue, and we all agree on certain concepts here, 994 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: like if I live on a stream, we've basically agreed 995 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: that I can't go and and plow a few thousand 996 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: pounds of manure into the stream of my property because 997 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,760 Speaker 1: it's always my property. No, because that water flows downhill, Dude, 998 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna mess up the agricultural landscape and the fisheries 999 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: and stuff on the next guy down the lines land. 1000 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: We've all agreed on that basic premise resources. Yeah, like 1001 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: I can't have a bunch of holes in my gas 1002 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: tank underground next to your drinking water, because you're gonna 1003 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: be really pissed when you get get groundwater contamination you're 1004 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,120 Speaker 1: drinking water. And so to look at the fence issue, 1005 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 1: it's bigger than just like what somebody's doing on their 1006 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,760 Speaker 1: own private land, because again and again hast been proven 1007 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: that it's not that way that it's like we're talking 1008 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,760 Speaker 1: about diseases and other stuff, and it's just like people 1009 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: have to wake up to the complexity of stuff and 1010 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 1: realize that it's not just this constant battle of like 1011 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: you're my right to do this and you're right to 1012 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: do that. You know, it's so much bigger, like what 1013 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 1: you do on private land affects public land, and what 1014 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: you do with animals that are privately held effects publicly 1015 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,960 Speaker 1: held animals. It's a it's a I feel like it's 1016 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 1: a pretty clear cut issue, but it's obviously very uh 1017 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: convoluted and um and there's and part of that is 1018 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,799 Speaker 1: because there's money at stake. Um. There's a lot of 1019 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: money being made, whether that's with the shooting or with 1020 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: with you know, just for the meat, um and and 1021 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: breeding stock, I guess, And so I see it. I 1022 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,680 Speaker 1: think it's something that uh that I think will evolve 1023 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: out of To be honest, I think that the public 1024 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: awareness on the disease factor in particular, but also this 1025 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of the ethics of it. I mean, people don't 1026 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: accept that and when they when when people find out 1027 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: about it, they want to figure out how to do 1028 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,600 Speaker 1: something about it. And so I think this will be 1029 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,320 Speaker 1: something that we won't be talking about in the twenty 1030 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: five years. I was just at um you Quality Dear 1031 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:33,040 Speaker 1: Management Association. There's a offshoot a q d M A 1032 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,400 Speaker 1: and and if you haven't heard of q dm A, 1033 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: like q d M A is the is largely to 1034 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 1: the bank for um A movement. Now you know among 1035 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:49,600 Speaker 1: private landholders almost the larger than that. They've been very influential, 1036 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 1: instrumental among private landowners to strive towards managing white tail deer, 1037 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,279 Speaker 1: toward having for lack of their term, what we'll call 1038 00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,879 Speaker 1: like more natural population dynamic mix some white tail deer. 1039 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: If you live in an area where you see twenty 1040 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 1: that where you got twenty dolls for every buck, that's 1041 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,919 Speaker 1: a manifestation of like shitty deer management of shooting all 1042 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,879 Speaker 1: but every buck to walks in front of you kill 1043 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,800 Speaker 1: you're not killing. Does you wind up having zero bucks 1044 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 1: that are three and a half years old the oldest 1045 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,360 Speaker 1: of boxing gets two and a half and you get shot, 1046 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,919 Speaker 1: and it'd be like guys not wanting to shoot doughs, 1047 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: shooting every buck to walks in front and sort of 1048 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,600 Speaker 1: the changing culture we've been experienced in the last decade 1049 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: or longer of being more open to the harvest dos 1050 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: trying to allow some bucks to reach like a natural 1051 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 1: reproductive age like that's come out of q d m A. 1052 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,960 Speaker 1: They speak larger too. They've spoken larger to private landowners 1053 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,759 Speaker 1: because private landowners have more say in the harvest races 1054 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 1: that are going on on their land. And offshoot of 1055 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: that is the National Deer Alliance, which is a bunch 1056 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: of biologists and land managers coming to go to look 1057 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: at deer issues. And I heard, and I don't think 1058 00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm wrong on this that they're pushing for. They keep 1059 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,160 Speaker 1: pushing for a ban on moving servants across state lines, 1060 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,680 Speaker 1: not with an eye towards cramming it down the private 1061 00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: man's throat, but for an eye of preventing diseases, which 1062 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean from just inadvertently moving diseases from one end 1063 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,879 Speaker 1: of the country to the other. Chronic wasting disease, which 1064 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,320 Speaker 1: is all over now, is not a thing of this land. 1065 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: It was brought here and it wasn't from deer swimming 1066 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: the ocean. I mean, that's that's obviously a policy. I 1067 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,280 Speaker 1: think that makes a ton of sense for the protection 1068 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: of our wild herds, and so you would think that 1069 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,120 Speaker 1: that would be something that even um, you know, some 1070 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,799 Speaker 1: of these private dear owners would think of them as 1071 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 1: a positive thing. I saw an interview with a guy 1072 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,200 Speaker 1: who's credited kind of largely credit with having spawned the 1073 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: dear white tailed deer breeding thing. I think this guy 1074 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, he really was. He was a dude that 1075 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: loved dear, guy that loved dear and um eventually had one. 1076 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: And it's funny about like what's funny about the deer 1077 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,760 Speaker 1: farming and deer raising industry and and how much money 1078 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,760 Speaker 1: is there and selling like genetic lines and bucks seaming 1079 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 1: and stuff is are there? Anybody brings us up? But 1080 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,399 Speaker 1: if you trace it all the way back, it had 1081 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: to have begun with a crime, because you can't just 1082 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,399 Speaker 1: go catch a deer and have it for yourself. With 1083 00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,759 Speaker 1: our model of conservation, deer are like public property. So 1084 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 1: I always wonder like it's almost I'm not saying it's 1085 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,759 Speaker 1: like it's the Statue of Limitations way run out, but 1086 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,600 Speaker 1: it always like it always strikes me as me and 1087 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: something that began with the wrong r. Some guys like 1088 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,880 Speaker 1: wait till deer right. You know, some guy went out 1089 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: and said you know what, I'm just gonna make that 1090 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:52,080 Speaker 1: mine and then from there innocently enough, you know, it's perpetuated. 1091 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,759 Speaker 1: We've got into this thing where deer have become like 1092 00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 1: for some people, it's not good enough that we have 1093 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,759 Speaker 1: have deer as like a national as wildlife. It's like 1094 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,239 Speaker 1: they gotta turn it into something. And it's driven by 1095 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,240 Speaker 1: many factors. And one of the biggest thing is driven 1096 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,959 Speaker 1: by is the desire to shoot a gigantic buck, right, 1097 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: um and what and you what these guys care about 1098 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: is just shooting a giant buck. They don't care if 1099 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:27,319 Speaker 1: it's been drugged or what you know. And uh, it's 1100 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,640 Speaker 1: just sad when you think about that. At at what 1101 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: cost that's gonna come to our wildlife? But do you 1102 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,920 Speaker 1: think and I feel like that's been a trend until 1103 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,920 Speaker 1: like the last like five ten years. Yeah, I think 1104 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,200 Speaker 1: it's reaches apex. And now it's like people are like, 1105 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,719 Speaker 1: that's that's not okay. So I think we're kind of 1106 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,080 Speaker 1: ruling back. And that's why I say I think like 1107 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: in twenty five years, we're probably not gonna be having 1108 00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,120 Speaker 1: this conversation. I hope, I hope you're right, because I 1109 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: was at as like one of those big conventions recently. 1110 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,960 Speaker 1: I won't name the one. I mean you probably guess. 1111 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 1: And I kind of thought that like that stuff had 1112 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,000 Speaker 1: faded out just because I wasn't seeing it. But I 1113 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,600 Speaker 1: went to this convention and you walked down the aisles 1114 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 1: and rows and there were many, you know, in the 1115 00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,800 Speaker 1: dozens of boots that were, you know, these farms selling 1116 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 1: and you look up at these heads that they have 1117 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,200 Speaker 1: mounted and you just like, well, they're just I don't 1118 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,760 Speaker 1: know what they're selling. They're selling them the box or whatever. 1119 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: But you look at these bucks and you've never even 1120 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,480 Speaker 1: seen anything like this. You know, I don't even know 1121 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,640 Speaker 1: this stuff existed. And now here here there was twenty 1122 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,640 Speaker 1: boots at this show, like selling this opportunity at you know, 1123 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,440 Speaker 1: one of these heads, and they're just like, you know whatever, 1124 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 1: it's like an upside down stump, you know, going on 1125 00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,439 Speaker 1: top of his deer's head. And yeah, but I think 1126 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 1: that's there that we are, like I mean when you 1127 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,640 Speaker 1: when you brought up like TV and like they're trying 1128 00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 1: to keep like that stuff out of the shots. You know, 1129 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,080 Speaker 1: for a while they didn't really care. Yeah, I mean 1130 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,960 Speaker 1: you'd see you see fences and I mean, same thing 1131 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: with like cordon feeders and stuff like you'd see them 1132 00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,800 Speaker 1: in the shot, and I feel like they're not doing 1133 00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: that as much anymore. And it's because about that experience 1134 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: of the hunt, and um like people like that the 1135 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,000 Speaker 1: cheapens that hunt, I mean in a lot of people's eyes. 1136 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:07,920 Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, we'll see I mean, 1137 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 1: we're probably always gonna be those guys that want that 1138 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 1: big rack and they don't care. And I've seen videos 1139 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,520 Speaker 1: of deer that are drugs that fall over and they 1140 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:15,760 Speaker 1: have to prop them up with sticks. Then a guy 1141 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,640 Speaker 1: shoots whatever with them. You know, it's ridiculous. So they're 1142 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,760 Speaker 1: always going to be those kind of people. But I 1143 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,480 Speaker 1: feel like we're turning away from him, hopefully, I hope so. 1144 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,160 Speaker 1: And I just hope for it. Saying like if that's 1145 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, if that's what you get off on, great man, 1146 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,240 Speaker 1: But I don't want those practice. I shouldn't say great 1147 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,640 Speaker 1: if that's what you get off on, and you want 1148 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,400 Speaker 1: to do it in a way that's not it doesn't 1149 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,960 Speaker 1: have catastrophic implications to wildlife health in the US, okay, 1150 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,800 Speaker 1: but you better find a way to guarantee that those 1151 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 1: practices aren't like lighting sticks of dynamite underneath public wildlife. Yeah, 1152 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a guarantee. Oh no, all right, 1153 00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:01,320 Speaker 1: let's change the subject. I hate the harp the negatives. 1154 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: What before we started, need to start to let's say 1155 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,600 Speaker 1: a quick break land. When you look at the future 1156 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:14,120 Speaker 1: of conservation, the future of public lands, tell me um 1157 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,840 Speaker 1: a handful of things, handful of trends that you think 1158 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:24,280 Speaker 1: are detrimental two hunters and fishermen, Some things that are 1159 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:25,800 Speaker 1: going on right now that that we really need to 1160 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,720 Speaker 1: be as hunters and fisherman, that we should really be 1161 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 1: watching out for two in order to protect our rights 1162 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,200 Speaker 1: and to like, uh, what are some of the things 1163 00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 1: that you're most optimistic about that you see right now, 1164 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,360 Speaker 1: that that that are happening, that they're good and that 1165 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,160 Speaker 1: we can hopefully keep continuing to be good. Yeah. I 1166 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: think the biggest threat that I see right now, and 1167 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,600 Speaker 1: this is nothing new, but it seems to resurface every 1168 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,480 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years, and that's the sail of public lands. 1169 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: And you know that it's it's it's been guised in 1170 00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,040 Speaker 1: the transfer of public lands to the States, but really 1171 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,600 Speaker 1: the sale of as where it ultimately ends up and 1172 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,040 Speaker 1: that to me that we can talk about all these 1173 01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: other issues. And I mean we've talked about already today. 1174 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,760 Speaker 1: What makes part of the West so special is all 1175 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,440 Speaker 1: the public lands we have, and like some of those 1176 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,600 Speaker 1: last bastions of public lands in the East, you get 1177 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: rid of those public lands, which are in my mind, 1178 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,960 Speaker 1: the cornerstone of our hunting heritage here in the United States, 1179 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,120 Speaker 1: which makes us different than every everybody else. And you 1180 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,760 Speaker 1: get rid of that, and we can have all sorts 1181 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,080 Speaker 1: of conversations that we were just having that don't matter 1182 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,480 Speaker 1: anymore because it's just that's not that's not the unique 1183 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of American experience that we've had. And and so 1184 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, right now or in the middle of of 1185 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,160 Speaker 1: of we have two presidential candidates that are calling for 1186 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: the sale of public lands. Um Senator Cruise from Texas 1187 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,600 Speaker 1: and uh Ran Paul just this last week was in 1188 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Nevada talking about it. And it's not just like dude, 1189 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,000 Speaker 1: like just dude, urban dudes, man, they don't get it, 1190 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,560 Speaker 1: like just I think just like like kind of like 1191 01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: city slickers that just have no comprehension of the kind 1192 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:04,040 Speaker 1: of stuff they have no comprehension of is from Texas. 1193 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,760 Speaker 1: How much public land is in Texas, you know, And 1194 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,400 Speaker 1: so I mean and when I say, you know, so 1195 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,880 Speaker 1: it's becoming more mainstream, you know, I mean it's uh, 1196 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,720 Speaker 1: this is not something that's on the fringes um. You know, 1197 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,280 Speaker 1: we've had a big movement here in the West that 1198 01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,040 Speaker 1: I think we've done a really good job beating back 1199 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,200 Speaker 1: at the state level, even though at the state level 1200 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,760 Speaker 1: there's no binding authority that they have at a state level, 1201 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,760 Speaker 1: it's more about just kind of creating some momentum for 1202 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,960 Speaker 1: a federal action. But you know, when you had the 1203 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:32,920 Speaker 1: this is getting into the weeds. But there was an 1204 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,680 Speaker 1: amendment this last spring that Murkowski from Alaska brought forward 1205 01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,960 Speaker 1: that would create a fund to help facilitate the transfer 1206 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,920 Speaker 1: and sale of public lands. Now, she said it was 1207 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,800 Speaker 1: for a small piece of in Alaska, but it was 1208 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,200 Speaker 1: broadly written, so it was anywhere. Fifty one senators voted 1209 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,280 Speaker 1: for that. Now, this isn't like those are. That's fifty 1210 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,120 Speaker 1: one senators. That's a that's a big deal. And so 1211 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,840 Speaker 1: to me, a lot of people have said, oh, this 1212 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,000 Speaker 1: is just kind of this noise that happens and it'll 1213 01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: go away. Well, to me, that's not just noise. When 1214 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,400 Speaker 1: you have fifty cents for it and you have to 1215 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,440 Speaker 1: presidential candidates one, it's a little bit more mainstream than 1216 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,320 Speaker 1: the other. Um. But I was talking about this is 1217 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,240 Speaker 1: my brother and he was like, I just like he 1218 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,760 Speaker 1: was trying to he's a b h A member, but 1219 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,400 Speaker 1: he was like, I just I try to understand the 1220 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: mindset of people who want to ditch public lands. He said, 1221 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,640 Speaker 1: is it that they like drive and look at a 1222 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,200 Speaker 1: mountain and they're like, man, I just wish I couldn't 1223 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,240 Speaker 1: go up into that mountain. I just wish it was 1224 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,760 Speaker 1: owned by a billionaire, Like it can't Like he was 1225 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: being facetious. That can't be what they think. But what 1226 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,800 Speaker 1: is it that it's not being sold in that way? 1227 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,400 Speaker 1: But what is it? Like? What is it? Dude? What 1228 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,800 Speaker 1: do they really feel? I know, I feel like I 1229 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,680 Speaker 1: know what they're actually talking about. Like what I'm always 1230 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,360 Speaker 1: interested in is what are the secret private conversations they have. 1231 01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,920 Speaker 1: I feel that I know what the secret private conversation is. 1232 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,720 Speaker 1: But what is really being said in the outward way 1233 01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:03,400 Speaker 1: about why it's beneficial to ditch public lands? So I 1234 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,960 Speaker 1: think the private ones are like, you know, the money 1235 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,919 Speaker 1: that's being made there right by they're not being rank 1236 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,760 Speaker 1: and filent calling for us it's like rich people. So 1237 01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,360 Speaker 1: that's the first one. It's a hatred of government. But yeah, 1238 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,760 Speaker 1: so it's what's not me it's like a um our 1239 01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:22,080 Speaker 1: public lands aren't being managed and in their eyes, like 1240 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,840 Speaker 1: in a correct way, and so they have frustration aggressively 1241 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,240 Speaker 1: for profit way. And so they have frustration. And so 1242 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,640 Speaker 1: whether that's you know, trying to take more trees, they're 1243 01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,480 Speaker 1: trying to do more mining, whatever that is, I think 1244 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,480 Speaker 1: that's that's that piece that people are frustrated with. Now, 1245 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,680 Speaker 1: what they don't necessarily understand is that federal lands are 1246 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,080 Speaker 1: managed for all of us, and that means multiple use 1247 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,520 Speaker 1: and so that means a TV users, that means hunters, 1248 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,360 Speaker 1: that means anglers, that means birdwatchers, that means miners, that 1249 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: means loggers, that means grazers. And so is that complicated, 1250 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,880 Speaker 1: very complicated um and how to all make that work? 1251 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,800 Speaker 1: And we talked about the clear Water Basin before, and 1252 01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,000 Speaker 1: that's that's the reason that has come up, is because 1253 01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,720 Speaker 1: federal manage mint wasn't working for that area and they've 1254 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:03,960 Speaker 1: tried to do something else. Right, So I think we 1255 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,440 Speaker 1: can agree the public land management um, it could be improved, 1256 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:10,880 Speaker 1: but at the same time it's as a pretty good 1257 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,160 Speaker 1: system where everybody has a voice at the table when 1258 01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:14,960 Speaker 1: it comes to the state that's managed for one thing, 1259 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,400 Speaker 1: and that's for profit. And so like in I mean 1260 01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: Colorado is a great example. State lands and Colorado that 1261 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,280 Speaker 1: are open to hunting. The fishing game in Colorado has 1262 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,120 Speaker 1: to lease those from the state to open those up 1263 01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 1: to hunters. That's ridiculous, Like that's all like that should 1264 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 1: be their land. It's not least you can't even sleep 1265 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: on it, you can't camp on it. And like in Montana, 1266 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,640 Speaker 1: like you can think what you can camp two days 1267 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 1: on on on state land, you can't fourteen on national 1268 01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,240 Speaker 1: forth without moving right, and so but that's all because 1269 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,280 Speaker 1: of money, I mean, and that those lands are there 1270 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,160 Speaker 1: to generate money. And so I think that's a big 1271 01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,360 Speaker 1: one um. And then you know, if if we have 1272 01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,000 Speaker 1: unfettered kind of development, like what kind of habitat and 1273 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,480 Speaker 1: opportunity do you have on that land after that? And 1274 01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,520 Speaker 1: and so this is again being bred out of frustration 1275 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,840 Speaker 1: and part of who is bringing this forward are also 1276 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:00,920 Speaker 1: the people that are cutting Budge it's for the force service, 1277 01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,960 Speaker 1: and so you know the forces for service has to 1278 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 1: do less or more with less. Right, they have less 1279 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:10,560 Speaker 1: money to keep roads open, like a lot of roads 1280 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,720 Speaker 1: that are closed or because they're not being maintained. That's 1281 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,720 Speaker 1: because they haven't got the budget up at the federal level. 1282 01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,560 Speaker 1: That isn't because you know, some environment group came in 1283 01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,160 Speaker 1: and said, no, you can't you know, hunt in this 1284 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,000 Speaker 1: body where we're gonna shut down this road or whatever. 1285 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,720 Speaker 1: It's because of like budgets have been coughing, because colverts 1286 01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,320 Speaker 1: get washed out and sty that becomes a liability. It's 1287 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: hard to maintain those roles in those kind of places. 1288 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 1: You're talking dirt roads and heavily roaded areas, and so 1289 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: you shut them down. Yeah, there's a lot of confusion 1290 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,960 Speaker 1: at times about what exactly got gated up for lots 1291 01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,080 Speaker 1: of just like simply liability. It's not safe to have. 1292 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,360 Speaker 1: From their perspective, they can't people driving around on roads 1293 01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,120 Speaker 1: that like effectively don't exist. So I think I mean 1294 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,000 Speaker 1: that it's it's it's a little bit of frustration with 1295 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,240 Speaker 1: public the management of our public lands. That's where it's 1296 01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,360 Speaker 1: coming from and that's how it's being sold to the public. Um, 1297 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,760 Speaker 1: but ultimately what's where what's at stake is really money 1298 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,720 Speaker 1: and in the big money that's behind kind of these efforts. 1299 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,040 Speaker 1: Is that oil and gas and kind of extraction industry. 1300 01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,240 Speaker 1: And is there a total smoking gun. They're like, you know, no, 1301 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,840 Speaker 1: but I'm not. You know, we're not that it's pretty 1302 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,840 Speaker 1: easy to figure out, um that this is much more 1303 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,760 Speaker 1: organized as this time, and like the American Lands Council 1304 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: or American Legislative Exchange Council based out of Utah. I 1305 01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,960 Speaker 1: mean that funding comes from large industry and um, you know, 1306 01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,440 Speaker 1: and so it's not that hard to make that that stuff. 1307 01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,280 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah. And they've gone after you, guys, they're 1308 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,680 Speaker 1: going after you personally. They've gone after a lot of 1309 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,240 Speaker 1: people in the conservation world as being like, uh, these 1310 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,560 Speaker 1: sort of secret slide the green decoy, the green decoy, 1311 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,560 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, it was funny. But the 1312 01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,120 Speaker 1: first time I heard about that, I was coming home 1313 01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,000 Speaker 1: from actually a Bozeman there was a hunt film tour 1314 01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,800 Speaker 1: here in Bozeman that we had worked. I was coming 1315 01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,000 Speaker 1: back from Missoula. Snow was just dumping. I had both 1316 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,400 Speaker 1: hands on the wheel and on my on my phone 1317 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,760 Speaker 1: comes up this phone call from Louisiana. I did a 1318 01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,040 Speaker 1: lot of work down Louisiana for a while, like I 1319 01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,400 Speaker 1: don't know if I really want to talk to him. 1320 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:00,800 Speaker 1: I was like, God, I but I love this guy, 1321 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,280 Speaker 1: and I but answer. He's like, dude, I have you've 1322 01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,520 Speaker 1: seen the green decoys? And I'm like, no, tell me 1323 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,640 Speaker 1: about him? Like are these like they have all flocked 1324 01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,760 Speaker 1: heads and they flocked bodies, Like what are they? I 1325 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:12,880 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, you haven't seen. And that was the 1326 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,200 Speaker 1: first time I found out about it. And at first 1327 01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,240 Speaker 1: I would say, um that that bothered me that somebody 1328 01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,120 Speaker 1: was coming after organization to me personally about it. But 1329 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:22,640 Speaker 1: the way I looked at it in that way I 1330 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,400 Speaker 1: look at it now basically saying like, oh, those guys 1331 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,040 Speaker 1: don't like to hunt fish. They're fake. They're fake. They're 1332 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:29,680 Speaker 1: guys who act like they like a hunt. And I 1333 01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,760 Speaker 1: remember thinking at the same time, they'll be like, dude, 1334 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:37,200 Speaker 1: I would love to take a random sample of b 1335 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:41,200 Speaker 1: h A members and take a random sample of whoever 1336 01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,200 Speaker 1: these guys regard to be real hunters and real conservations 1337 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,000 Speaker 1: and it match them up. Tote to tote a hunting contest. Dude, 1338 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,520 Speaker 1: it's like it would be it would be hilarious. It 1339 01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,760 Speaker 1: was just it was so outlandis to me because I bet, 1340 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,200 Speaker 1: like I've know a lot of b h A member 1341 01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:57,919 Speaker 1: has been the b h A funks to be like, oh, 1342 01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,640 Speaker 1: you're saying those guys don't actually like the those guys 1343 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,320 Speaker 1: like the hunt. There's morningbody. I know it's a it's 1344 01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,280 Speaker 1: a it's a way of life, not a pastime, right, 1345 01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,680 Speaker 1: And I got what I love thinking about is like, 1346 01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,320 Speaker 1: so it's just the firm is that's actually behind that 1347 01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,000 Speaker 1: as Berman and associates, it's out in d C. It's 1348 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,000 Speaker 1: a PR firm. They've been called dr Evil by sixty minutes. 1349 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,360 Speaker 1: New York Times at a big expose on him last 1350 01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,840 Speaker 1: year when Richard Berman got caught in an oil executive 1351 01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:24,240 Speaker 1: meeting and talking about how he's gonna use all these 1352 01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 1: dirty tactics to to fight folks and um an executive 1353 01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,240 Speaker 1: push record on his phone because he didn't like, you know, 1354 01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:32,280 Speaker 1: he was talking about you can either win or you 1355 01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:35,240 Speaker 1: can either lose of being prettier, he can win being dirty, 1356 01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,680 Speaker 1: and like that's when he pushed record. Didn't like it, 1357 01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:38,920 Speaker 1: and so then you get out The New York Times 1358 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,080 Speaker 1: New York Times blew it up. And so there's actually 1359 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,160 Speaker 1: a Will Coggan who works underneath him, um, and he's 1360 01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:50,040 Speaker 1: just as white pasty lobbyists inside DC that I'm guessing 1361 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,200 Speaker 1: has never set foot on public land. But I definitely 1362 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:54,920 Speaker 1: know that my daughter, who's six years old, has had 1363 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,519 Speaker 1: more blood on her hands and he had a will 1364 01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,679 Speaker 1: and so to call that fake and I think, you know, again, 1365 01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,040 Speaker 1: the reason they're calling us out is because we we 1366 01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 1: we look at this land and want to perpetuate these 1367 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,280 Speaker 1: opportunities and conservation is a big piece of that. Am 1368 01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,400 Speaker 1: I saying, Are we saying no more oil and gas 1369 01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,040 Speaker 1: development ever? No? Like we're talking about in responsible fashion, right, 1370 01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,320 Speaker 1: and we have a long track record of doing that. 1371 01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:18,640 Speaker 1: But I think the reason that green Decoys thing has 1372 01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,479 Speaker 1: come out is because of the success we're having talking 1373 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,360 Speaker 1: to people. And so that's where first I was frustrated 1374 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,479 Speaker 1: and worried about kind of what that meant for us, 1375 01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,760 Speaker 1: And since then, uh, it's it's more like a badge 1376 01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,720 Speaker 1: of honor, right, Like the reason they're coming after us 1377 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,360 Speaker 1: because we're being effective, and like they're like the other day, 1378 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:39,120 Speaker 1: we like your voice is loud, I would tell you 1379 01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,360 Speaker 1: I had a dozen people when I came out, I 1380 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,400 Speaker 1: had a dozen people fans of Meat Eater show right 1381 01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,360 Speaker 1: or on Twitter or whatever, come on and say like, 1382 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,479 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I don't know if I 1383 01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,040 Speaker 1: can keep supporting you because you guys support b h 1384 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,599 Speaker 1: A and it's always gonna link to this green decoys thing. Right. 1385 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,800 Speaker 1: Everyone in my rote too, And I said, I invite 1386 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:03,320 Speaker 1: you to do two things. Well, look into who made that, okay? 1387 01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,760 Speaker 1: And two go to PH's website or called b h A. 1388 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:13,000 Speaker 1: And then you tell me one policy issue that they 1389 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:14,960 Speaker 1: have that you don't agree with. Like I don't want 1390 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,840 Speaker 1: to talk about who there did what when, but look 1391 01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:23,000 Speaker 1: at as an organization. You find one thing that you 1392 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: want to come and tell me it's bad policy for 1393 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,040 Speaker 1: hunters and fishermen, and then let me know what one 1394 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:29,720 Speaker 1: you think. I never heard back from a single one 1395 01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:33,559 Speaker 1: of those guys. And I think because saying look, it's 1396 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 1: not like a mysterious group. No, it's a nonprofit. No, no, 1397 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,559 Speaker 1: we I mean all our where we get our money 1398 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,960 Speaker 1: is all up online, like you know, all the policies 1399 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,160 Speaker 1: that we have us up online. I mean again, I'm 1400 01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,200 Speaker 1: I think um that there there's some shadows there and 1401 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,559 Speaker 1: these organizations that's an organization of like two that's out 1402 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,200 Speaker 1: in d C, like the Environmental Policy Alliance or whatever 1403 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,519 Speaker 1: they're called now, um and so, and they don't disclose 1404 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,080 Speaker 1: where their money comes from. And it's just just like 1405 01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,680 Speaker 1: some of the things that they're causing us a ridiculous 1406 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,439 Speaker 1: and um when I look at it again, I mean 1407 01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,679 Speaker 1: we've gotten you know this, we'll come up on a blog, 1408 01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:08,200 Speaker 1: right and and and partly what I think they're trying 1409 01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:09,840 Speaker 1: to do is trying to waste our time a little bit, right, 1410 01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:11,280 Speaker 1: like should they get out and so then we have 1411 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,599 Speaker 1: to deal with it. We'll come up on a blog. 1412 01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,400 Speaker 1: And what's been great is that we don't really interact 1413 01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,720 Speaker 1: with that. There's other people either members or people that 1414 01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,800 Speaker 1: that look into it. So then that conversation happens. We 1415 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,680 Speaker 1: get members out of that. We've gotten life members out 1416 01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:25,360 Speaker 1: of that, which is a great thing. Like no press 1417 01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,920 Speaker 1: is bad press, right, And I think what it fuels 1418 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,760 Speaker 1: that fuels the people that already kind of want to 1419 01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,080 Speaker 1: think that way, like this conspiracy that oh you know, 1420 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,920 Speaker 1: like these guys are you know, acting on behalf of 1421 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,639 Speaker 1: this anti hunting green decoy or what you know, green 1422 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,920 Speaker 1: kind of whatever, and so that fuels their fire for 1423 01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,400 Speaker 1: the people in the middle that investigated a little bit 1424 01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,200 Speaker 1: or or asked to investigate, and they look at it, 1425 01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,240 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, these guys are like kind of share 1426 01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:49,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the same values. I don't gonna become 1427 01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:51,800 Speaker 1: a member. And then on the other side, you know, 1428 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,599 Speaker 1: they did it. They did that video of me right 1429 01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:56,080 Speaker 1: before the Shot show this year, and they sent it 1430 01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,240 Speaker 1: out to all my corporate partners, and so I get 1431 01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: to the shot Show and um, you know, a little 1432 01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: bit nervous about how this is gonna you know, how 1433 01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:07,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna react to this. And two like an organize 1434 01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,439 Speaker 1: a corporation that we worked with, they were like, we 1435 01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,240 Speaker 1: saw it. We think it's hilarious that they're actually doing it. 1436 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,920 Speaker 1: You must be kicking you know, major ass. And then 1437 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,439 Speaker 1: three like we want to double down with you and 1438 01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,200 Speaker 1: do more with So it's like, you know, to me, 1439 01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,720 Speaker 1: like it's backfiring. And you know, I mean, we just 1440 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,680 Speaker 1: had something pop up around the Clean Water Act. The 1441 01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,000 Speaker 1: Administration comes out clarify some rules on the waters of 1442 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:30,360 Speaker 1: the US to protect for headwaters, for headwater and isolated wetlands. 1443 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,880 Speaker 1: We come out with Trial Limited and TRCP and say 1444 01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:35,559 Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. And then they come out 1445 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 1: right after that and say, hey, by the way, these 1446 01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,880 Speaker 1: guys out your friends. I'm like, okay, So the prairie 1447 01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:41,880 Speaker 1: potholes in North Dakota where they're making all the ducks, 1448 01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to protect that, like that's the duck factory. 1449 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,479 Speaker 1: Like that's the duck factory. And then here's you know, 1450 01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:49,559 Speaker 1: something that's gonna help protect those lands. Like tell me 1451 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:51,840 Speaker 1: how that's anti hunting and it's not. And then you know, 1452 01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,160 Speaker 1: it gets down to clean water, like everybody drinks clean water. 1453 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,120 Speaker 1: I don't carrecter, you shoot ducks or not, but those 1454 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, marshans are important to all of us. And 1455 01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:01,120 Speaker 1: so like it's it's comical a little that their tactics, 1456 01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,200 Speaker 1: but it is something and it comes out of this 1457 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,880 Speaker 1: this effort that um and that I believe you know, 1458 01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:08,920 Speaker 1: on this public lands effort for sure, and that they're 1459 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,280 Speaker 1: trying to they're trying to snake oil sell this thing, 1460 01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,519 Speaker 1: and they're using tactics to try to cut down people 1461 01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,040 Speaker 1: that are trying to make sure that we keep in 1462 01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,160 Speaker 1: public hands. What's funny is now we've all like it's 1463 01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:23,639 Speaker 1: funny like Theodore Roosevelt. Okay, it has been deified, right, 1464 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,599 Speaker 1: I mean he's everybody's angel, right. He's one of those 1465 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:32,000 Speaker 1: guys that everyone from all persuasions wants to align themselves with. 1466 01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,559 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt. We just agreed that he was a great guy. 1467 01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,840 Speaker 1: I would love to go I don't know why I 1468 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:41,760 Speaker 1: haven't done this, but to go find the rhetoric that 1469 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,000 Speaker 1: was used to attack Theodore Roosevelt when he was trying 1470 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,960 Speaker 1: to create a public lands system, national force system, to 1471 01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:52,400 Speaker 1: use the rhetoric that was used to attack him on 1472 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,240 Speaker 1: doing something that we now universally agree as one of 1473 01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:01,840 Speaker 1: the greatest achievements of American politics. They were saying the 1474 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:07,559 Speaker 1: same stuff then. I mean it was senators Western senators 1475 01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:10,200 Speaker 1: from Idaho and Montana that ultimately made it so he 1476 01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:12,920 Speaker 1: couldn't declare national force anymore when he did the when 1477 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,840 Speaker 1: he did the Midnight Force and so. And the reason 1478 01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:18,640 Speaker 1: they did it is because they were kind of the 1479 01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,360 Speaker 1: timber bearings at the time and they didn't think that 1480 01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:22,840 Speaker 1: they were gonna be able to, you know, take as 1481 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:25,800 Speaker 1: much timber that they wanted off of those national forests. 1482 01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,719 Speaker 1: So have they been able to continue to to log 1483 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,040 Speaker 1: on those forests. Yes, um, and and so I think 1484 01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,519 Speaker 1: you're righting in the rhetoric. It just changes, you know, 1485 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,280 Speaker 1: I'm in the sage brush rebellion. Then you had Congressman 1486 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,400 Speaker 1: Pombo in two thousand five that wanted to sell off 1487 01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,840 Speaker 1: public lands, palth. The national debt like it seems to 1488 01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,080 Speaker 1: come up every ten or fifteen years, and the language 1489 01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,679 Speaker 1: never changed, just different players. And at this point, Um, 1490 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,479 Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's been more organized and more 1491 01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,800 Speaker 1: funded this this school around. And and I think that's 1492 01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,360 Speaker 1: partly because people are frustrated with the government in general, right, 1493 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the federal government is just no matter what 1494 01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,240 Speaker 1: you talk about. But when you talk about public hands 1495 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,080 Speaker 1: and staying in public hands like that still is like 1496 01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,720 Speaker 1: a seventy people want that to stay. But there's this 1497 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,280 Speaker 1: frustration with the public or with the federal government. I 1498 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,720 Speaker 1: think they're capitalizing on that. Well. The one thing I 1499 01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,720 Speaker 1: don't really understand why people have such a hard time 1500 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,200 Speaker 1: grasping is I don't think that all of our public 1501 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:25,840 Speaker 1: lands should need to answer for themselves at all times 1502 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:31,679 Speaker 1: in an economic way, like anyone who sort of manages 1503 01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,320 Speaker 1: their own money, manages their properties, manages things at times 1504 01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:40,960 Speaker 1: you just you hang onto things for the future. You know, 1505 01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,320 Speaker 1: if you look now at some of the great treasures 1506 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,160 Speaker 1: that we've created, public land treasures, we create, some of 1507 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,880 Speaker 1: the great things we've said aside, we hold many more 1508 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:57,280 Speaker 1: of those in our pocket right now that if they're preserved, 1509 01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,120 Speaker 1: will be as valued by future generations and will be 1510 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:06,400 Speaker 1: as valuable. As the relative nature of landscapes change. We 1511 01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:11,200 Speaker 1: will continue to develop more, create more, build more roads, 1512 01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,960 Speaker 1: straight more habitat. As we do that, we are just 1513 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,760 Speaker 1: going to increase the value of the lands that we 1514 01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,200 Speaker 1: haven't done. They will become like many more yet also 1515 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:27,240 Speaker 1: national park type things, you know, as the contrast and 1516 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:32,799 Speaker 1: creatures increases between wilderness and civilization. And when people now 1517 01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:35,439 Speaker 1: sit down and well meeting people and people a support 1518 01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:38,400 Speaker 1: sit down, they're always trying to demonstrate the economic footprint 1519 01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:43,160 Speaker 1: of hunting and fishing, justifying it through the economic footprint. 1520 01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:48,360 Speaker 1: I wonder, I'm like, sure, let's use that. Let's use 1521 01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:57,480 Speaker 1: that that justification about our humongous economic input from license purchases, travel, hiring, outfitters, 1522 01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:59,160 Speaker 1: all these kinds of all the money we generate and 1523 01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,240 Speaker 1: jobs we're creating, revenue we generate, why not talk about that. 1524 01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,800 Speaker 1: What makes me learly about it is to be like, oh, 1525 01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: so it's only justifiable if I can prove it in 1526 01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,240 Speaker 1: present day it's it's value in present day dollars. Like 1527 01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:14,000 Speaker 1: I need to justify hunting or justify my right to 1528 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,719 Speaker 1: have clean water and air through the economics. I can't 1529 01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:23,120 Speaker 1: just justify it through something that's bigger and more valuable, 1530 01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,000 Speaker 1: like more spiritual in nature than just trying to tell 1531 01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,160 Speaker 1: you in dollars what hunting and fishing is worth. You know, 1532 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:31,880 Speaker 1: I don't need to justify the existence of my three 1533 01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,959 Speaker 1: children and based on how much revenue they're creating for me, right, 1534 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,880 Speaker 1: you can just bet that. No, It's like it's beyond money. 1535 01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,360 Speaker 1: They're precious. It's like they're the things that I care 1536 01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:43,720 Speaker 1: about most. No one says, yeah, well show me how 1537 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,080 Speaker 1: they're making money. No, in fact, they're costing me tons 1538 01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:48,840 Speaker 1: of money. Does that make me love them less than? 1539 01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:51,519 Speaker 1: In a weird way, it makes me love more? Do you? 1540 01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:53,800 Speaker 1: I mean, like, why can't we talk about public lands 1541 01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,320 Speaker 1: in that way, you know, instead of having to sort 1542 01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:59,320 Speaker 1: of justify their existence based out like how many jobs 1543 01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:02,000 Speaker 1: that it creates? All the Leopold when he wrote San 1544 01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,439 Speaker 1: Colony Almanac. He has this line there where he talks 1545 01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,800 Speaker 1: about Leopolds like the father of one of the many 1546 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,840 Speaker 1: fathers of modern conservation. He talks about we've become like 1547 01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:15,679 Speaker 1: economic hypochondriacs, where we're so worried about our financial health 1548 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:19,880 Speaker 1: that we're incapable of being healthy. You know, I don't 1549 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,400 Speaker 1: see that it's that bad to have some things that 1550 01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,960 Speaker 1: maybe cost us a little money or don't generate a 1551 01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,679 Speaker 1: lot of money, because we're holding them in perpetuity with 1552 01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,200 Speaker 1: the good faith, as demonstrated through many other landscape projects, 1553 01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:37,000 Speaker 1: that they will continue to be of tremendous incalculable value 1554 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:41,519 Speaker 1: in the future. That's national forest lands, state forests, but 1555 01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,080 Speaker 1: uniquely makes US America, right, Like, I mean, we're so 1556 01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,400 Speaker 1: different because of what you're describing, and I I mean, 1557 01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,840 Speaker 1: I think the economic argument comes up, and it's I 1558 01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:53,640 Speaker 1: think it's an important one because it's uh, it's it 1559 01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,120 Speaker 1: resonates out in Washington, d C. Where a lot of 1560 01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:57,880 Speaker 1: these policies are made. And when you think about the 1561 01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, adding the outdoor recreation industry into that piece, 1562 01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,960 Speaker 1: when you're talking to billion dollars, that's that's a big number. 1563 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,880 Speaker 1: That's sustainable and so for some folks that don't get 1564 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,400 Speaker 1: the intrinsic values that you're talking about, the only thing 1565 01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:12,040 Speaker 1: that they can think about his dollars and cents. You 1566 01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:13,680 Speaker 1: have to do it, But I just like it. May 1567 01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:15,800 Speaker 1: you have to do it. I support to him. At 1568 01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:17,920 Speaker 1: the same time, it makes me a little uneasy something. 1569 01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,080 Speaker 1: So what are we exactly are we saying? Did I 1570 01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,479 Speaker 1: have to look at I like to fish catfish? You know? 1571 01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,080 Speaker 1: Do I have to like look at a catfish and 1572 01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,040 Speaker 1: be like, what have you done for the economy today? 1573 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,280 Speaker 1: You know, I just don't know that I need to 1574 01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,920 Speaker 1: hold I don't need the catfish needs to support that 1575 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,720 Speaker 1: that burdens on his shoulders around his dorsal fin man. 1576 01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,479 Speaker 1: But I think when you do talk about it in 1577 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,719 Speaker 1: that kind of that that value set that you're talking about, 1578 01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:44,439 Speaker 1: like people get that piece. I mean that that whole 1579 01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,880 Speaker 1: ken Burns piece you know about national parks, Like people 1580 01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:49,880 Speaker 1: are proud of that we have national parks and it's 1581 01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:51,960 Speaker 1: that uniquely American thing, And so we need to talk 1582 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,000 Speaker 1: about it more in the way that you just talked 1583 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,360 Speaker 1: about it, um, because I think it resonates and and 1584 01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, and if I'm if I think about you know, 1585 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:02,840 Speaker 1: the survival of these public lands. That's a big piece 1586 01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,920 Speaker 1: of it. All right, how long? How long we were 1587 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:16,439 Speaker 1: talking to land? Concluding thoughts? Concluding thoughts? Um, I think 1588 01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,320 Speaker 1: that oh, it would be nice if you want to 1589 01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:21,080 Speaker 1: before you conclude thought, or you can use it as 1590 01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:26,519 Speaker 1: you're concluding thought. But the prior questions to this was, yeah, 1591 01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,120 Speaker 1: what what's what's like? Yeah, what's what's got you excited? Right? 1592 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,080 Speaker 1: So my glass is always half full, right, you know? 1593 01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:33,360 Speaker 1: And I think that's the way I grew up. And 1594 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,200 Speaker 1: if there's always opportunities and and so I think when 1595 01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,840 Speaker 1: you look at you know, hunting fishing numbers that just 1596 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:40,799 Speaker 1: went up, and the reasons they went up is because 1597 01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:46,040 Speaker 1: people um hunting fish more and when the economy is down, 1598 01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:47,720 Speaker 1: so those numbers went up. But then you have this 1599 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,200 Speaker 1: new kind of like foodie kind of movement that's helped 1600 01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,800 Speaker 1: drive that. And then women and hunting, and I feel 1601 01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:56,800 Speaker 1: like we've been a group of I'm forty years old now, 1602 01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:58,840 Speaker 1: so maybe I am one of these old white men, right, 1603 01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,599 Speaker 1: but hunting has been and yeah I'm one, so I've 1604 01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,400 Speaker 1: been one for two years. Yeah. Yet all right, we'll 1605 01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:08,200 Speaker 1: look forward to it like, um, he's a young white man. 1606 01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,479 Speaker 1: But it's been like this old white man kind of sport, 1607 01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,520 Speaker 1: right and and it's and and now you see uh 1608 01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:16,679 Speaker 1: people getting into it, you know, through the foody movement 1609 01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,120 Speaker 1: or more and more women. That's women talking to women 1610 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,080 Speaker 1: rather than guys going, hey, you should come out and 1611 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, hunt with me and do it that once 1612 01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:25,200 Speaker 1: and then call yourself a hunter. Like it's real, Like 1613 01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:27,080 Speaker 1: these are real women that are going out and wanting 1614 01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,000 Speaker 1: to do this as a lifestyle and and and so 1615 01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:34,360 Speaker 1: that to me, um, it gives me hope that that 1616 01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,160 Speaker 1: that hunting continues to stay in a mainstream kind of way, 1617 01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,720 Speaker 1: and that conservation kind of fabric that's been woven through 1618 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:42,000 Speaker 1: the last hundred and fifty years has been driven by hunters. 1619 01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,679 Speaker 1: Helps carry that into the future. And you know, I'm 1620 01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,320 Speaker 1: also I mentioned the outdoor industry a little bit ago. 1621 01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,479 Speaker 1: I feel like they're starting to realize, um that not 1622 01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,920 Speaker 1: only that they are a huge economic driver, but they 1623 01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:55,800 Speaker 1: have a huge steak in our public lands, and that 1624 01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,800 Speaker 1: they need more of a voice and and so how 1625 01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:00,920 Speaker 1: they do that, there's any different ways for them to 1626 01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,760 Speaker 1: do that. Part of its financially, but I feel like 1627 01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,479 Speaker 1: those groups, those new groups of like foodies and women 1628 01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:09,680 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, kayakers and mountain bikers that 1629 01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,600 Speaker 1: aren't just just just using the outdoors but actually are 1630 01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:18,760 Speaker 1: gonna give back. That gives me, uh, I think, um, 1631 01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:20,360 Speaker 1: it gives me hope for the future and hope for 1632 01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:22,479 Speaker 1: like my kids, right like, and that they're they're gonna 1633 01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,360 Speaker 1: have a place to defend, right and that I feel 1634 01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:28,360 Speaker 1: like you and I are here right now and we're 1635 01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,559 Speaker 1: you know, defending the legacy that was handed off to us. 1636 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:32,880 Speaker 1: But it's for this short amount of time, and then 1637 01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:34,360 Speaker 1: our job is to pass it on to the next 1638 01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:36,559 Speaker 1: generation to help fight for that, right Like, Like, that's 1639 01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:38,720 Speaker 1: all we're doing, is we're passing that on so they 1640 01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,400 Speaker 1: have something to fight for, because they will have to 1641 01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,800 Speaker 1: fight for it, but we have to we have to 1642 01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,280 Speaker 1: make sure that one it's there for them and one 1643 01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,639 Speaker 1: that they have something inside of them that actually makes 1644 01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,599 Speaker 1: them want to do that. And you know, I know, 1645 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:52,519 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you're doing this with your 1646 01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,000 Speaker 1: kids and I'm doing it with behind. Is that they're 1647 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,000 Speaker 1: getting engaged in the outdoors from the very beginning. It's 1648 01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,479 Speaker 1: just something that they're gonna be a part of. But 1649 01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, hopefully that they're the next leaders and that 1650 01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,320 Speaker 1: they're they're creating more opportunities for other people, and for me, 1651 01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:05,880 Speaker 1: I think that we're going there. Um. The threats are dire, 1652 01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:09,000 Speaker 1: but they've always been dire. It's just our time right 1653 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:10,479 Speaker 1: now to do our part to make sure that we 1654 01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,479 Speaker 1: pass it along to the next generation. And um, you know, 1655 01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,960 Speaker 1: with things like new technology like this podcast, I mean, 1656 01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,840 Speaker 1: you're reaching more people that way, right, and you're reaching 1657 01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,479 Speaker 1: hopefully different audiences than just that old pipe man. And 1658 01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,160 Speaker 1: nothing against the old white man. I'm one of them now, uh, 1659 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,479 Speaker 1: and they have a lot to contribute to conservation, into 1660 01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:30,280 Speaker 1: this kind of hunting and fishing legacy. Um. But if 1661 01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,960 Speaker 1: we are just so looking inward, we're not, that's not 1662 01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:36,000 Speaker 1: going to perpetuate into the future. And then you lose 1663 01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:39,479 Speaker 1: this thing that you just talked about that is uniquely American, 1664 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,559 Speaker 1: which are these public lands that have these values that 1665 01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,679 Speaker 1: are hard to describe, but we all know it because 1666 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,360 Speaker 1: it makes us, you know, it makes us feel proud 1667 01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:49,680 Speaker 1: of who we are. I'm not nervous about exposure, man, 1668 01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:54,320 Speaker 1: I know that like the way to get people to 1669 01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,320 Speaker 1: want to fight for what they have is showing what 1670 01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,640 Speaker 1: they have. You know, I've traveled a lot to you know, 1671 01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,200 Speaker 1: a lot of different countries, and you're getting a lot 1672 01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:07,760 Speaker 1: of areas where the disconnect between people and their landscape 1673 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,720 Speaker 1: just becomes so severe because they're so shut out by 1674 01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, difficulty and travel economic considerations where when they're 1675 01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:19,639 Speaker 1: talking about that mountain range off of the distance or 1676 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,760 Speaker 1: that marsh offer distance, it just has no they just 1677 01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,640 Speaker 1: never picture how it might possibly relate to their own 1678 01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,000 Speaker 1: well being. You know. I think that, Yeah, you've got 1679 01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,560 Speaker 1: to show people what they have. If we continue to 1680 01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:33,360 Speaker 1: do that, you know, then we got a bright future. 1681 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,960 Speaker 1: If not, it's gonna look way different. And I don't 1682 01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:42,800 Speaker 1: want to think about that one. Yeah, any concluding thoughts, Um, 1683 01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,000 Speaker 1: I'm guilty of I'm gonna throw myself under the bus 1684 01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:47,439 Speaker 1: here because I'm one of those guys like just pays 1685 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,320 Speaker 1: my for the thirty five bucks annually. I get my 1686 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:52,479 Speaker 1: journal and get my sticker, put on my analogy and 1687 01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:55,000 Speaker 1: bottle put on my truck. But I need I feel 1688 01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,439 Speaker 1: like everybody should do a little bit more. I need 1689 01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:57,519 Speaker 1: to do a little bit more. I'm gonna talk to 1690 01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:59,360 Speaker 1: land when we're done here and see how I can 1691 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,679 Speaker 1: actually put my boots on the ground. But it feel 1692 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,200 Speaker 1: like a little bit of a call to action, like 1693 01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:04,920 Speaker 1: everybody should do just a little bit more than just 1694 01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:07,240 Speaker 1: paying a thirty five bucks. And maybe you could speak 1695 01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:09,200 Speaker 1: to that, just you know, in a couple of sentences 1696 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,920 Speaker 1: of just like what's it show? But the chapter meeting 1697 01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:13,439 Speaker 1: is that we're just yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, 1698 01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,320 Speaker 1: we have chapters all over this country. There's seventeen chapters 1699 01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:18,519 Speaker 1: UM that are mostly based in the West, but I've 1700 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,599 Speaker 1: talked about the ones in the East, and so it's 1701 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,599 Speaker 1: getting engage with those chapters. And you know, I mean 1702 01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:25,200 Speaker 1: there's all ways to engage, you know, whether that's helping 1703 01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:28,120 Speaker 1: us with fundraising events and membership events all the way 1704 01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,120 Speaker 1: to showing up at your UH at the District Rangers 1705 01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,240 Speaker 1: office and talking to him about, you know, a TV 1706 01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,080 Speaker 1: abuse in a certain area and how can we help 1707 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,280 Speaker 1: curtail that UM, And so there's different ways to get engaged. 1708 01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,559 Speaker 1: And I would say that the only reason I've already 1709 01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:42,880 Speaker 1: said that the only reason we have what we have 1710 01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:44,840 Speaker 1: today is because people have stepped up. And I think, 1711 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, paying the twenty five dollars um you know 1712 01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:49,680 Speaker 1: for a membership a year, that's a great way to 1713 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,000 Speaker 1: step up. That's just the first piece. And that next 1714 01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,519 Speaker 1: piece is that you know the people. People that step up, 1715 01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:56,960 Speaker 1: UM make a difference, right, and you still get that 1716 01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:01,000 Speaker 1: Cambert A CP for joining Lifetime, you can you can 1717 01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,599 Speaker 1: get the A that's a sweet deal a CP if 1718 01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:08,639 Speaker 1: you become a life membership and you get that that CP, 1719 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,439 Speaker 1: which is like gone, so it doesn't make any sense. 1720 01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:13,360 Speaker 1: You guys are able to do that. Well, we have 1721 01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:15,720 Speaker 1: a good relationship with Kimber And then it's a it's 1722 01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:17,840 Speaker 1: also what you know that we create awareness for b 1723 01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:20,680 Speaker 1: h A and we gave away seventy six guns last year. 1724 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,760 Speaker 1: Right from that between the micro carry that three A D, 1725 01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,160 Speaker 1: then the A C P and then the Mountain of 1726 01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:30,040 Speaker 1: Scent and that Mountain of Scent is just like unbelievable. 1727 01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,519 Speaker 1: If I had some money, I'd buy that right now. 1728 01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:34,720 Speaker 1: But no, no, I think it's it's stepping up, right. 1729 01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:37,559 Speaker 1: I mean you're asking about it, and I think that, Um, 1730 01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:40,040 Speaker 1: if you're complaining and you're not doing anything, and stop complaining, 1731 01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,919 Speaker 1: like you gotta do something, and and it's about that's 1732 01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:44,920 Speaker 1: that's the way America has been built. That's the way 1733 01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,479 Speaker 1: we're building an organization, and it's you know, those who 1734 01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,800 Speaker 1: step up actually get things done. Yeah, I think it 1735 01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:53,920 Speaker 1: would have matter. It's like, look at what is the thing, Like, 1736 01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:55,839 Speaker 1: what are the things you care about most of life? 1737 01:26:56,920 --> 01:27:00,160 Speaker 1: You know, I take all kinds of measures to make 1738 01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:05,200 Speaker 1: sure that that you know, family right is taken care 1739 01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,679 Speaker 1: of in a multi generational sense, Like I care about that, Okay, 1740 01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:10,559 Speaker 1: I'm willing to make sure the dike is taken care of. 1741 01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:12,800 Speaker 1: I care about my vegetable garden. I look to make 1742 01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:14,960 Speaker 1: sure my vegetable guards take care of. It's like I 1743 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:16,720 Speaker 1: care about hunting fishing. You need to look and make 1744 01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,160 Speaker 1: sure you're hunting fishing is taken care of. It's just 1745 01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,320 Speaker 1: not gonna happen on its own, dude, it just don't. 1746 01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,000 Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen on its own. And also I 1747 01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,559 Speaker 1: think people think it's daunting, right, like oh I just 1748 01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:28,360 Speaker 1: my voice doesn't count, or like I just don't know 1749 01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:30,280 Speaker 1: how to do things. We can help you do that. 1750 01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,760 Speaker 1: And you know, again like showing up to that meeting, um, 1751 01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:36,599 Speaker 1: you know, and with your district ranger, like he's hearing 1752 01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,280 Speaker 1: from all sorts of different people, but that woman. We 1753 01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:40,720 Speaker 1: had some people working on the bitter Root travel plan, right, 1754 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:44,400 Speaker 1: and like our local chapter was working on that their 1755 01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,000 Speaker 1: voice and talking about LX security versus a voice that's 1756 01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,240 Speaker 1: saying open up all roads and unfettered like a TV 1757 01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:52,559 Speaker 1: access everywhere. Those two voices then come together where they 1758 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:54,720 Speaker 1: make a decision without that voice over here, we don't 1759 01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:56,760 Speaker 1: make it back in the middle, right, And so it's 1760 01:27:56,800 --> 01:28:00,040 Speaker 1: like your voice does count. And uh, and so I 1761 01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:02,439 Speaker 1: mean we'll talk more about how you can get engaged. 1762 01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:04,920 Speaker 1: But you know, we're we're young, and we're growing, and 1763 01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,760 Speaker 1: we've we've built this organization on word of mouth, and 1764 01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,160 Speaker 1: we're starting to get more opportunities like this to do 1765 01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:13,599 Speaker 1: bigger word of mouth, right, and uh, but we're resonating. 1766 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,000 Speaker 1: We're resonating for a reason, and that's because people see 1767 01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:18,280 Speaker 1: us focusing on public land, which is this asset that 1768 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:21,200 Speaker 1: we all have. It everybody has. Was that your compudent thought, 1769 01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of like mine. It's kind 1770 01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:28,240 Speaker 1: of like computing thought. A lot of times I get like, 1771 01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,240 Speaker 1: we get a lot we feel a lot of emails 1772 01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:34,280 Speaker 1: of people who say, like, man, I you know, my 1773 01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,160 Speaker 1: dad didn't grow up hunting. You know, I was never 1774 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:39,920 Speaker 1: brought up around it. I really want to start hunting, 1775 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:44,080 Speaker 1: but it's like so daunting, Like I don't know anybody 1776 01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:50,080 Speaker 1: that hunts. I tell them often. I'd like, I shouldn't 1777 01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,000 Speaker 1: even be telling you this land. I'll say, you know 1778 01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:56,479 Speaker 1: what you ought to do, really joined a group, Like 1779 01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,840 Speaker 1: join a group like b h and start going there 1780 01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:03,240 Speaker 1: and pitch in because you're gonna wind it being hooked 1781 01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:09,200 Speaker 1: up with the most hunting and fishingist guys around, you know, 1782 01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,080 Speaker 1: because like I've met many b h A members and 1783 01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:15,640 Speaker 1: they are like guys that live the life. Go to 1784 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:19,439 Speaker 1: those places and become like a teammate there and pitch 1785 01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:24,240 Speaker 1: in there and do it that way and just worm 1786 01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,280 Speaker 1: your way in to like a hunting and fishing culture 1787 01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:33,920 Speaker 1: in order to start like untapping the vast wealth of 1788 01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:38,920 Speaker 1: knowledge that your members have about accessible hunting and fishing 1789 01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,720 Speaker 1: that anyone with a with a pair of boots can 1790 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,160 Speaker 1: get involved in. Hopefully you want that kind of member. 1791 01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,559 Speaker 1: We totally want that, and we do. We do. I mean, 1792 01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:50,479 Speaker 1: and I like, we do have a series called back 1793 01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,080 Speaker 1: Country College, and in that college, in that like online 1794 01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:56,600 Speaker 1: kind of video series, like we teach skills and I 1795 01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,439 Speaker 1: don't know how many comments come in there that I have. 1796 01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,120 Speaker 1: I've never been hunting, but this like actually making me 1797 01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,160 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, that I could have some skills. 1798 01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,639 Speaker 1: Now we're doing all the skills and does that take 1799 01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,320 Speaker 1: place of anything that happened on the ground now? But 1800 01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,200 Speaker 1: I think having people that come into hunting later sometimes 1801 01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:15,120 Speaker 1: or even more passionate about it and like appreciative of 1802 01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,120 Speaker 1: what it actually is because they didn't grow up like 1803 01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:18,519 Speaker 1: you and I did. Like we're just kind of a 1804 01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:20,639 Speaker 1: way of life, right, But when they come in, it's 1805 01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,559 Speaker 1: like new and a lot of times they're in their 1806 01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:24,280 Speaker 1: late twenties early thirties, they have a little bit of 1807 01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,559 Speaker 1: means and um and they can dive right into it 1808 01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:29,920 Speaker 1: and and to them they see the rewards that we 1809 01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:33,080 Speaker 1: do all the time, but it's so new to them, 1810 01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:34,760 Speaker 1: it's so exciting to them, and so they get you know, 1811 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,760 Speaker 1: they're almost even more passionate. And so I think, you know, 1812 01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:39,400 Speaker 1: please continue to do that. I mean, anytime you're gonna, 1813 01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, help us, like push membership, please do that. 1814 01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,240 Speaker 1: I used to shovel, manure and throw hay bales and 1815 01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:47,320 Speaker 1: exchange for hunting permission. Yeah, I didn't even know what 1816 01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:49,320 Speaker 1: else do with my My dad would farm me my 1817 01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,800 Speaker 1: brothers will have to shovel, manure and throw hay bales 1818 01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,800 Speaker 1: for hunt for his hunt permissions the reason to have kids. Right, 1819 01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,280 Speaker 1: So now I'm like, yeah, man, tie into like if 1820 01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,840 Speaker 1: you look at the what, look at the mission of 1821 01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:05,040 Speaker 1: the organization, tie into the organization, hang out and like 1822 01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,800 Speaker 1: it's just inevitable because like good people get involved in 1823 01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,720 Speaker 1: conversation or its conservation, good people get involved. People who 1824 01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,599 Speaker 1: care about the future, who care about other people, right, 1825 01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:17,479 Speaker 1: who want the world to be better than they left it. 1826 01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,080 Speaker 1: Those are the people who are involved in these organizations. 1827 01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,120 Speaker 1: That's also the kind of person that's gonna take you 1828 01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:27,439 Speaker 1: under their wing and show you some things when they 1829 01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,120 Speaker 1: realize that you're aligned in the same way. I don't 1830 01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:32,280 Speaker 1: think you need to become like an expert hunter and 1831 01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,920 Speaker 1: fisherman in order to be involved in conservation. And I'll 1832 01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:37,000 Speaker 1: tell you what. We have this semantic thing in the 1833 01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,439 Speaker 1: u S where we got like environmentalism and conservation, and 1834 01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,360 Speaker 1: it's like, in some ways we view these two things 1835 01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:47,240 Speaker 1: as being different. I think that if we're gonna take 1836 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,759 Speaker 1: like sort of the garden variety acceptance of of environmentalism 1837 01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:55,360 Speaker 1: being somehow like preservation and conservation being sort of like 1838 01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,920 Speaker 1: this idea of environmental protection open to the idea of 1839 01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:03,080 Speaker 1: us extracting we new doble resources of fishing game. The 1840 01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,680 Speaker 1: conservation movement in this country right now, this is a 1841 01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,200 Speaker 1: bowl statement, but the conservation movement this country right now 1842 01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:11,560 Speaker 1: is far more effective and far more powerful than the 1843 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:16,360 Speaker 1: environmental movement because they reach across the aisles. I mean, 1844 01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,479 Speaker 1: I think the conservation is doing more on the ground 1845 01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:22,000 Speaker 1: stuff than than the often that might build that that 1846 01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,320 Speaker 1: might use these like semantical terms. I think if you 1847 01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:27,000 Speaker 1: want to be a powerful player in supporting the kind 1848 01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:28,960 Speaker 1: of things you care about, I would look at the 1849 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:33,720 Speaker 1: conservation movement, and you can start conservation without knowing shit 1850 01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:37,479 Speaker 1: about hunting, fishing, agreed. The one thing I would say 1851 01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:39,280 Speaker 1: there is one of the reasons why the conservation is 1852 01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,920 Speaker 1: being so successful as because as there's that like far 1853 01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:44,400 Speaker 1: right flank over here, and there's that far left flank 1854 01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:47,280 Speaker 1: with environmental over here, right, and so there's that opportunity 1855 01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:49,320 Speaker 1: to try to make that space in the middle, and 1856 01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:52,719 Speaker 1: which you know, I've had conversations with my mom, who 1857 01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:54,880 Speaker 1: has been involved in this kind of stuff for a 1858 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,720 Speaker 1: long time about this exact thing, is that if that 1859 01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:02,200 Speaker 1: if that right flank of just unfettered extraction wasn't there, 1860 01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:04,479 Speaker 1: and that left lank of this kind of like leave 1861 01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,240 Speaker 1: it all alone, don't ever touch it again, don't fish it, 1862 01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,040 Speaker 1: don't where we don't even look at it? And where 1863 01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:10,200 Speaker 1: are we gonna be in the middle? Like what if 1864 01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:11,840 Speaker 1: you like, what if that middle was you know, farther 1865 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:13,280 Speaker 1: over the right, what if that middle was farther over 1866 01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:15,320 Speaker 1: the left, right? Like it's there? Is that middle for 1867 01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:17,360 Speaker 1: a reason? And so do they play a role? I 1868 01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,440 Speaker 1: think so? But it's where stuff getting done. It's conservation, 1869 01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,040 Speaker 1: all right. That was my concluding thought. Thanks for listening in. 1870 01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:30,880 Speaker 1: Give a good look. Um, don't just take my word 1871 01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:34,040 Speaker 1: for it, man, it's a be it. You're a registered 1872 01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:38,680 Speaker 1: nonprofit by law of registered nonprofit needs to be transparent. 1873 01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:45,960 Speaker 1: Go look at what b a j Is doing and 1874 01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,640 Speaker 1: then come tell me if you got a problem with it, 1875 01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:52,760 Speaker 1: and I will explain how you're wrong. Um, thanks for 1876 01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:59,760 Speaker 1: tuning in. Lands great to be here. Alright, guys, think 1877 01:33:59,760 --> 01:33:59,960 Speaker 1: any