1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: With fewer than one hundred days until voters head to 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: the polls. If re elected, former President Donald Trump is 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 2: widely expected to appoint a so called Capitol Hill cabinet 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: full of Congress made. A potential shortlist includes Republican Senator 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: Bill Hagersey, who is being floated as a pick for 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary. The senator joins us right now, Senator, it's 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: great to catch up me, sir. We tried to do 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: this last week, so this is our second attempt. I 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: think this one's going to work. 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 3: Good to be back with you, Jonathan Lisa, thank you. 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: Let's start with foreign exchange, if we can, sir. We 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: caught up with the former president here at Bloomberg just 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: a number of weeks ago, and in Bloomberg Business Week 15 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: he told us that he believes we have a bit 16 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: of a currency problem in the United States for America. Senator, 17 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: I would love your perspective on that, whether you agree 18 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: with a former president on that issue, and what kind 19 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: of policy tools do you think the government has to 20 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: address it. 21 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 3: We have a number of problems with the economy. I 22 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 3: think the biggest one, however, and is related is inflation 23 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: is driving higher interest rates. Of course that has a 24 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: direct impact on our currency. But President Trump's policies will 25 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 3: have an immediate impact to bring inflation down because he's 26 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 3: going to end this administration's war on fossil fuels, bring 27 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: energy costs down, go back to a deregulatory construct as 28 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 3: he did in the prior administration, taking down regulatory and 29 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 3: compliance barriers. All of these will have a lowering impact 30 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 3: on cost here in America. It'll have a lower impact 31 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: on inflation. Those will be directly beneficiary and basically help 32 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 3: make the case then to bring reachs down and therefore 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: bring our currency into a different position. 34 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: Senator, there are two other proposals as well, which I'm 35 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 2: sure you're familiar with, much higher tariffs, a much tougher 36 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: stance on immigration. I'm not going to sit here and 37 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: say whether that's the right or wrong thing to do. 38 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: I just want to talk about outcomes and consequences. Deutsche Bank, 39 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: like others on Wall Street, Senators you know, have pointed 40 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: out the tariffs and their associated stronger implications for the 41 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: dollar are significantly more likely to be the dominant market 42 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: outcome than policies to pursue a week of dollar. Senator, 43 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: my question to you would be, why wouldn't higher tariff 44 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: and a toughest stance and immigration ultimately just lead to stagflation. 45 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 3: I'm fully aware of the concerns surrounding tariffs, but let 46 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 3: me make this point. The United States of America has 47 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: the lowest tariff barriers of any major economy in the world. 48 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 3: The converse of that statement is that our major trading 49 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: partners do not have the similar tarifsy have much higher tariffs. Therefore, 50 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: we have a real lack of reciprocity. That's not fair. 51 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 3: That's something that needs to be addressed. Many of these 52 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: issues date back all the way to World War Two, 53 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: but there's come a time and a place to step 54 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: up and address that. President Trump wants to see them addressed. 55 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: We want to see more reciprocal and fair trading terms. 56 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: The time has come to get that accomplished, Senator. 57 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: From a market perspective, people are struggling with these two 58 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: goals sort of national security fairness on one hand, and 59 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: on the other hand, the idea of the advantage of 60 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: a weaker currency for trade purposes, which takes prominence pre eminence. 61 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: Well, I think It's something that always has to be balanced, Lisa, 62 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: and I think you'll see any administration do their best 63 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: to do it. I think President Trump did an excellent 64 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: of that during his first administration. The playbook is laid 65 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: out there. We were strong, we were tough with China. 66 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: At the same time, we brought economic growth that was 67 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: twice the rate of any of the major economy at 68 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: the same time here in America. So we can do both. 69 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: We can walk and shoo them at the same time. 70 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: I think that's the challenge. The most important thing, though, 71 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: is that President Trump will come in and in these 72 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: reckless policies domestically that have created inflation that has caused 73 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 3: so many knock on effects. Again, back to energy independence, 74 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 3: we need to get there. Not only will it be 75 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,559 Speaker 3: important for lowering inflation here, but it'll be an important 76 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: geostrategic tool as we become much stronger allies who were 77 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 3: able to export our energy to places like Europe and Asia. 78 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: All right, let's go there. You've mentioned it a couple times, 79 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: this idea of war on fossil fuels, as well as 80 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: the idea of not really achieving the goal of energy 81 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: and dependence. We're pumping more oil in the United States. 82 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: We're producing more oil than ever before, more than thirteen 83 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: million barrels a day. This is something unseen before in 84 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: terms of production from any other nation. How can you 85 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: say that it's a war on fossil fuels time where 86 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: it is record production. 87 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 3: Lisia clearly is a war on fossil fuels. Because Joe 88 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 3: Biden came in and took federal lands off the map 89 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: immediately upon taking office. That's a quarter of our capacity 90 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: right there. What you're not saying is that there was 91 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: a trajectory that was much more rapid, much higher. We 92 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: took ourselves off of that growth trajectory and we flattened it. 93 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 3: We continued to produce, but demand is outstripping it. Think 94 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: about the demand for electricity here in America. If you 95 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: think about what we're going to need for artificial intelligence, 96 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 3: the electrification of the grid, We've got to get back 97 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: into the energy production business full blast. We have the 98 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: technology to do it. This administration has done everything they 99 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: can to slow that down. We need to get back 100 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: on a rapid growth path that'll put us on a 101 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 3: trajectory to be not only stronger here domestically in lower inflation, 102 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: but also stronger partners with our allies. 103 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 2: So senas right now, we're producing thirteen point three million 104 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 2: powers of crude every single day, As Lisa points it out, 105 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: that's a record, is more than anyone on the planet. 106 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: How much crude do you think America should be and 107 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: can be produce? 108 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: Sick We should be producing more than anybody else in 109 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: the world as we are. We need to produce more 110 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 3: LNG to become the strongest energy partner there is. You 111 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 3: think about pipeline capacity and the difficulty of getting permits 112 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 3: of this administration. You think about the difficulty beginning or 113 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: refinery started here in America. All of these log jams 114 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: and difficulties make it less possible for us, make it 115 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 3: more difficult for us to be the best possible ally 116 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: that we could. We need to expand it. We need 117 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: to realize that this is a true source of competitive 118 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: advantage for the United States of America. Let's exploit it. 119 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: Let's talk about who is an ally and who isn't 120 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: an ally. There's lots of conversations about what's going to 121 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: happen we trade policy and China. I think we've sort 122 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: of exhausted that conversation many times over the last few weeks, Senator, 123 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: I want to talk about Mexico. I want your view 124 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: on Mexico. We saw from Elon Musk of Tesla that 125 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: he's holding back investment decisions in the country because he 126 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: thinks there might be a change in the next year 127 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: that makes it difficult to produce automobiles over in Mexico. 128 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: We've heard similar thoughts from all the manufacturers elsewhere worldwide. 129 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: What is happening in Mexico and what kind of changes 130 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: would you like to see? 131 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: Well, in twenty twenty six, the USMCA is up for renegotiation, 132 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 3: and I think one of the greatest concerns is the 133 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: fact that Chinese ev makers are looking to end run 134 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 3: the USMC in run tariffs and use the USMCA and 135 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: Mexico market in particular as it means to get into 136 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: the US market, and they're using their subsidized product destroy 137 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: the US market. That's going to have to take a 138 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: very solid look. I think. Also with respect to Mexico itself, 139 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: we've seen some very concerning behavior there the prior administration 140 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: there n ra Amlow actually nationalizing American company's assets. We've 141 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: got to address that. I intend to speak with the 142 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 3: new administration there very soon about what we can do 143 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: to make certain we have much better and much stronger 144 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: relationship there with Mexico and fairer terms. 145 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: Senator. The last time we tried to talk, you were 146 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: at a bitcoin conference, and this was our cryptocurrency conference, 147 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: and that was where the former President Trump was speaking 148 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: and fundraising. And we've been asking this question on the show, 149 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: Why Bitcoin? Why now? Why crypto assets? What's sort of 150 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: the motivation to really embrace a network of crypto assets 151 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: and become the preeminent network on the plan And from 152 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: a Republican sort of stance, is this something that is 153 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: concrete and why? 154 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: At least I think this is something that has evolved 155 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 3: over time. I first began looking into crypto and the 156 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: previous administration in twenty eighteen. That was my first engagement. 157 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: I initially started at a point of skepticism, as I 158 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: think many of my colleagues do. But when I begin 159 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: to understand the underlying technology and realizing the potential for 160 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 3: dramatic productivity gains, what I thought to myself is we 161 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: need to make certain that it happens here in America. 162 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: The last thing we want is to see what happened 163 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: with the semiconductor industry where it got pushed off shore 164 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: and weakened us from a geopolitical standpoint, we need to 165 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: see this innovation happening here. I've been in many conversations 166 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: with President Trump. His thinking is likewise involved, and he's 167 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: embracing the fact that this has tremendous potential for America. 168 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: We want it to evolve here. We want to create 169 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: the ecosystem for it to thrive here, and the last 170 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: thing we need to do is push it off shore. However, 171 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: the current administration has done everything they can to attack 172 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: this industry, to push it offshore again, to use the SEC, 173 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: the CFTC, every tool at their disposal to come in 174 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 3: and attack this industry and refuse to provide it with 175 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: any time for regulatory framework. President Trump made the statement 176 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: at the Bitcoin conference that one of the first things 177 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: he'll do is change out the administration's leadership. Gerry Ginselari said, 178 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: will be fired. That brought people to their feet and applause. 179 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: He's going to end operation chokepoint that's been taking place 180 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 3: in the crypto industry here in America, and he's going 181 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: to try to create the environment here where the industry 182 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: can thrive and we'll see the next wave of innovation 183 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: happening right here in America. 184 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: Senator, we've got to dance around the issue about your future. 185 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 2: So this is how a frame mat. I've got twenty 186 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: seconds left on the clock. Your favorite city to live 187 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: in Nashville, Tokyo or Washington, DC? 188 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: Which one, No, it has to be Nashville, Tennessee. And 189 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: if you've been there at the Crypto conference, you've seen 190 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 3: the energy there. It is absolutely wonderful what's happening broadly 191 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: across my state. That's why so many people are moving there. 192 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: Senator, Thank you, sir. Senator Ville haggartsy there on the 193 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: latest with Crypto the economy,