WEBVTT - Doin’ Science in the National Radio Quiet Zone 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.480 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.480 Chuck and Jerry's here too, and really quiet You're on 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.840 stuff you should know because we're doing an episode on 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:26.040 the National Radio Quiet Zone. We're not a radio show, 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.200 we're a podcast, but we feel in solidarity that we 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:30.360 should be quiet. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.519 To that's right. And we're not talking about Palm Springs 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.320 with their oppressive band on outdoor music. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:38.120 Oh, I hadn't heard about that. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.160 Yeah, you can't play music outside like by your pool. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:43.240 Huh at all? 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:45.120 Supposedly at all? 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.360 Well, I guess it probably just depends on your neighbor. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.640 I think they're pretty strict about it. I mean, I've 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.760 never been to Palm Springs and stayed there. We should 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.960 ask our friend who lives there. Yeah, because maybe full 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:59.680 time residents have a little more leeway. But you know, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:01.440 they do it because people. They don't want people just 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.680 going and renting houses and just blowing out the neighborhood 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:04.200 every weekend. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.560 No, this is in Fire Island, guys. No, that we're 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.920 not talking about Palm Springs, though, I guess is the 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:11.120 upshot of that, right. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.360 No, we're talking about the opposite of Palm Springs, which 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.360 is Appalachia. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:19.160 West Virginia. Yeah, is kind of the opposite of Palm Springs, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.160 if there is such a thing. I think even if 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.120 you folded the United States map in half, they would 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.880 be pretty close to one another. They would smear one another. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.559 Someone's going to do that. Yeah, they're going to fold 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:32.920 a map up and send us a correction. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.360 Yeah, they'll be like Josh's way off. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.360 Well, you know where they might fold a map up 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.000 is in the National Radio Quiet Zone because they still 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:40.720 use those things. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.959 It's a great place to fold a map because yeah, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.959 like you said, that's what you need to get around 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.360 in a lot of cases. Let's just cut to the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.720 chase here, Chuck. The National Radio Quiet Zone does not 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.160 mean you can't play your music like that. They're saying 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.880 that this is an area where radio emissions of any 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.640 are heavily regulated, frowned upon, you might even say. And 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.680 the whole reason they're doing this is to protect the 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:14.240 delicate telescopes radio telescopes, Houston radioed astronomy at a specific 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.120 place called Green Bank, West Virginia. They've established a whole 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.519 zone around it that's meant to block out or keep 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:26.360 out radio transmissions so that the astronomers can go about 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:27.440 their business happily. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.559 That's right. And to be clear, when you say radio transmissions, 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.240 you're not talking about Casey Casem's American Top forty, right, 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.680 because we don't have a time machine and we're not 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:38.960 going to exhuom Casey Casem. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.520 They still play those likes on some radio stations on 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.080 Saturday or Sunday. It's a great way to pass some 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:47.120 time if you're driving. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.359 I've stumbled upon those and it is a nice time 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.360 capsule for sure. But you're talking about radio waves, and 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.920 we're gonna explain kind of about what radio astronomy is 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.040 and all that. In fact, we can go ahead and 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.640 do that right now, because in nineteen thirty two there 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.280 was an engineer at Bell Lab's named Karl Janski who 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.640 noticed some static interfering with some communications going across the pond, 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.520 as they say, got together with an astronomer over coffee 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.079 and they said, you know what, I don't think this 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.320 is interference coming from here on Earth. I think it's 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.000 coming from out in the Milky Way galaxy. And this 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.680 was a big deal in nineteen thirty two, They were like, 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:30.360 there are literal celestial bodies emitting radioaves out there, and 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.680 we need to start studying these and measuring these, and 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.480 we're going to call it radio astronomy. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.600 Yeah, all of a sudden, we didn't just have visible 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.840 telescopes anymore. We had radio telescopes, which are very similar. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.600 I mean, they both are just measuring different parts of 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:52.120 the electromagnetic spectrum. That's basically it. But the really amazing 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.640 thing about what some of these radio telescopes can do, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.800 just to give you an idea of how sensitive they are, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:04.560 they measure the incoming radio waves that are so weak. 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.480 They measure them in micro jant skis, which is a point. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.000 What a micro jant Ski point? 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:14.080 Is it named after Carl? 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.760 It is named I hope so because that would be 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:22.159 one heck of a coincidence. Yeah, it's point. It's zero 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.920 point thirty two zeros. Wow, this is the watts, by 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.680 the way, So the electrical energy is so weak, it'so 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.120 point thirty two zeros of a single watt, right, and 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.040 I've seen it compared to a snowflake hitting the ground 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.680 carries a lot more energy than that. So that's how 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.440 faint some of these radio signals are, and that's how 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:50.599 sensitive these enormous radio telescopes are, which is why the 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.640 idea of having a quiet zone around a telescope is 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.200 so vital. Because there's so much noise in modern life. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.680 It's just gotten worse and worse and wors. You can 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:07.560 find radio interference and everything from bulldozers to power lines, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.760 Wi Fi routers, Christmas lights, spark plugs, and cars produce 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.920 a lot of radio interference. It's everywhere, which means then 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.159 that if you want to create a quiet zone, you 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.479 have to somehow regulate all this stuff to kind of 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.640 keep it away from the radio telescopes, which has proven 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.200 difficult over the years for the National Radio Quiet Zone. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.800 You mentioned the less than a Why do they have names? 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.000 I know there's like megawatts and killowatts and all that stuff, gigawatts. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.080 Do they have names for things less than a w 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.400 or is micro janski? 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.800 Is a janski is like point twenty six zeros of 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:45.880 one single watt? 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.440 Well, I just meant a sort of a regular interval 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:49.960 like a something watt like a reggie watch. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.760 Oh, I'm sure there's like a milliwat. I know there is. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.680 I've heard that word before. I know I was at 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.320 a mixer of some sort and someone used that word. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:00.680 Okay, I got you. You miss my joke. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.640 Oh well I need to hear it. I gotten. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.960 No, I'm going I'm gonna let you hear it in 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.200 QA when you listen to it. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.880 So great, I have a future humiliation ahead of No. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:13.640 No, no no. It was very quick and it was 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.240 a pretty lame set up by me because it was 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.720 all just for that dumb joke. So you have it, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.080 when hester I to look forward to. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:20.280 I can't wait to hear it. 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.160 Something that you've said though a few times that we 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.600 want to again just sort of hammer home. You've said, 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.520 like a lot of noise and you might hear like 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.159 silence and things like that. Again, it has nothing to 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.120 do with sound. We're just talking about radio waves, which 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.919 are you know, they cast a kind of light like 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.719 a radio light, but it's not something that the human 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.400 eye can see. So again, not actual sound is what 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:45.119 we're talking about. 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.039 No, nor actual visible light radio light. Right, So like 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.120 what I was saying, it's like radio light pollution is 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.280 absolutely everywhere, and yet they're trying to keep it as 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.040 quiet as possible. In the national radio Quiet it used 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.760 to be a lot easier when they started this whole thing, 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.880 you said, Karl Jansky made that massive monumental discovery in 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.440 nineteen thirty two. By nineteen fifty four, the National Science 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:18.480 Foundation started exploring, like how to just take radio astronomy 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.560 to the next level, which is I guess you would 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.600 say the second level because it was still so new. 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:28.640 They created the Advisory Panel on Radio Astronomy, and part 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.760 of what they were discussing was how to create a 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.960 quiet zone and where you would make one of those things. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.960 Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine if they had were 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.520 tasked with this today, it'd probably be nearly impossible. They'd 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.440 have to use imminent domain just to kick people out. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:45.800 But nineteen fifty four, like you said, it was a 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.360 little bit easier. So for a couple of years they 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.760 got together over coffee about where they could put this thing. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.640 It needed minimal radio noise, obviously, like we talked about, 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.640 probably a pretty limited population. By the way, thanks for 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.240 Anna for this when she did a great job on this. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:02.640 Yeah, she really did. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.560 Surrounded by mountains because mountains provide a natural barria for 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.360 those radio signals, and probably not near a city, but 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.880 not too far from Washington, d C. Where things would 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.239 likely be headquartered. So they finally looked around. They settled 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:24.360 on the Appalachian Mountains between Virginia and West Virginia. That 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.760 is part one of solving the problem. Part two was 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.080 getting funding. Luckily, President Eisenhower was kind of into this, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.800 so in nineteen fifty six he asked Congress back when 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.920 that was a thing, for seven million dollars to fund 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:42.120 a radio astronomy center, and Congress said, yeah, let's do it. 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.640 Yeah, everybody was really jazzed about this new radio astronomy stuff. Right. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.479 West Virginia was very flattered, and they the state legislature 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.240 passed the West Virginia Radio Astronomy Zone. So the first 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.959 thing that was created was the National Radio Quiet Zone 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.000 and that was actually created before the National Radio Quiet Zone. 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.000 Yeah, they kind of laid the groundwork, I feel like. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.640 Yeah, they laid a ten mile diameter groundwork around wherever 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.560 this telescope was going to be built. They said, wherever 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.800 you put it, there's going to be ten miles around 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.360 it where you can't use radio stuff, right, Yeah. And 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.080 then the FCC said we're going to do one better. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.880 We're going to put another blanket layer much larger layer 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.079 called the National Radio Quiet Zone on top of the 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.679 West Virginia Radio Astronomy Zone to kind of make this 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.200 huge buffer, right, to make it even harder for radio 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.640 signals to mess with the radio telescopes in the West 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.400 Virginia Radio Astronomy Zone. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:48.320 That's right. So that smaller n RQZ, the National Radio 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.920 Quiet Zone had from the jump, had some looser restrictions 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:59.800 than the even much smaller WVRAZ. It covered a much 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.040 larger area, about thirteen thousand square miles. But think of 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:09.760 it this way. It's really a rectangle, the NRQZ thirteen 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.400 thousand square miles across the Virginia and West Virginia and 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.320 a little bit of Maryland, the southernmost tip on that 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:21.079 western panhandle, just a tip. It's very mountainous. It's got 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.320 parts of the Allegheny, parts of the Blue Ridge Mountains, 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.480 but mainly the Appalachian Mountains. And within that thirteen thousand 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:34.000 square mile rectangle, you've got that West Virginia the wv RIZ. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.040 In the center of that, you've got a two mile 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.400 zone that surrounds Green Bank, West Virginia. And every time 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.480 you go into a smaller circle within that rectangle. It 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.280 gets more and more restrictive as for what kind of 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.199 radio noise that you can have, because in the middle 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.760 of that zone you've got the Green Bank Observatory and 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.800 they have even more restrictions right there in the center. 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.960 Yeah, at the Green Bank observd to you can't even 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.839 think about using any kind of radio creating device because 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.520 that would create radio waves. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:08.880 If you think about Wi Fi there that you're fired. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.360 Yeah, you fired. If you're lucky, they'll really work you 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.440 over there. They've got a gang of goons that enforced 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.480 this with the iron fist. So we talked about how 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.600 all of this. The quiet zone itself was established. Simultaneously, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.040 they're working on creating the actual observatory that's going to 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.839 be in the middle of this quiet zone, and initially 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.840 it was called the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in that 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.440 town of Green Bank, which is in the center of 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.839 the West Virginia Radio Astronomy Zone that was established in 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.440 nineteen fifty six, and they started building telescopes, one bigger 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.120 than the other. They started with the toattele eighty five 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.680 foot back and then the three hundred foot telescope. They 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.719 go one hundred and forty foot telescope, which are very 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:59.640 boring names, but originally, as you might imagine, everybody is 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:04.880 sociated with the National Radio Astronomy Observatory lived in this 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.160 ultra quiet zone around the observatory, and they ran into 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.400 some early problems where the employees are like, we can't 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:12.840 live here. 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.319 Sorry right, yeah, I mean they said, you know, the 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.880 medical care and access to great healthcare is an awesome 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.120 the schools here aren't great for my kids, and so 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.400 they relocated the admin headquarters to the University of Virginia 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.600 and Charlottesville. The researchers remained there on site in eighty eight, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.520 and I think that was in nineteen sixty five when 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.000 they built most of this stuff, those big tall towers. 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.640 In eighty eight, the three hundred foot telescope collapsed. The 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.480 one hundred and forty foot said ha ha, But then 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.360 it was replaced by the Robert C. Bird Green Bank 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.480 Telescope in two thousand and one, which still stands today 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.960 and not only stands, but it's like it is the 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.160 largest fully steerable radio telescope in the world with get this, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.880 a two point three acre dish and almost five hundred 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.840 feet four hundred and eighty five feet, which is twenty 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.360 one and sixteen big macs. 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:08.960 Is it? 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:10.559 That's all for you, my friend? 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.360 Thank you buddy. Wow, that was a delightful little line yap. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.120 What alan yap? We've talked about this before. Oh remind 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.480 me a lane yap is just like a little something extra, Okay, 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.440 and I find it incredibly obnoxious to use. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.560 Well, I think it's great and it sure beats the 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:30.800 heck out of a cherry on top. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.520 Alright, let's come out with something else. 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:36.320 The lineyap on top. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.480 Okay, there you go. There's one other thing that the 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.640 Green Bank telescope, the one that's currently in use, can 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.600 boast you ready for this? Yes, it has the world's 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:52.280 largest ball bearing. Oh wow, the ball bearing inside of 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.440 this thing that this massive telescope steers on. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.120 I can't wait. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.280 Seventeen and a half feet in diameter, wow, which means 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.679 it's as big a as a male adult giraffe is tall. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.240 That's the best I could come up. I know it's awful, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.880 it's clumsy, but I could not come up with anything else. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.960 Hey, Alexa, what's seventeen feet tall? 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.600 I asked Duck Dunco instead. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.440 Okay, and I'm sorry for everyone who's Alexi? Just triggered Alexa? 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.760 Alexa, Alexa play one direction? 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:33.920 Oh boy, that's good. 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.160 You want to take a break while everybody's trying to 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:38.080 turn off one direction? 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.240 Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be right back. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:07.720 You came along and it was like, yeah, well we. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.800 Were work pals, all right. So within that thirteen thousand 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.680 square mile rectangle, the National Radio Quite Zone, you cannot 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.880 and this is where the restrictions begin, and we're gonna 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.320 get more granular. You can't have any fixed or permanent 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:28.480 transmitters installed unless you get approval from the NRQZ and 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:29.280 the FCC. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:38.760 What's the NTIA, the National Telecommunications and Information Agency, Very obscure, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.920 but they supposedly are replacing FEMA as the new World 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.760 orders jack boot troops. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.320 Okay, good to know. So you can't build any big, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.320 permanent things there. So that means just within that big 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:58.040 thirteen thousand square mile rectangle, just somebody living there doesn't 0:15:58.080 --> 0:15:59.920 have to worry too much. That means that no company 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.320 can come in and build something really. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.520 Big, right, That's really what we're looking at here. If 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.440 you're in the actual thirteen thousand square mile thing, you 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.920 don't have to really worry about a cell phone. The 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.240 thing is that also means since there's no cell phone 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.760 towers that are allowed there, your cell phone's going to 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.720 be useless in a lot of places. I think that's 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.720 fair enough to expect anyway, because Pocahontas County, which is 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.200 where a lot of the main part, which is definitely 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.800 where Green Bank is, I think three quarters of it 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.440 is national and state protected wilderness. So you're not going 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.720 to expect to get a cell phone signal there anyway. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.400 And if you're passing through this area, you're probably going 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.960 to the quiet zone on purpose, so you can expect this. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.000 It's really just an issue if you actually live or 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.440 work in this area, or you're a company trying to 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.600 set up new infrastructure. That's really who's being affected by this. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.720 Yeah, for sure if you read and I had heard 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.600 of this before at some point, like I saw some 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.320 news reporter read an article that portray it as like, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.760 you know, it's like going back in time basically, And 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.639 we'll get to the ways that it is sort of 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.240 like that, but it's not entirely like that. They've never 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.400 entirely banned any kind of radio transmission. It's just really 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.359 regulated like they have certain radio broadcasts because they have 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.199 to have those emergency transmissions that we talked about in 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.240 Communications in the Am Radio episode. Those have always been there. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.560 You can have TV. It is restricted, but they permit 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.600 like cable TV and even satellite TV, which kind of 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.440 surprises me. Yeah, and Wi Fi was not available for 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.200 a long long time until I think just last year. 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.160 But they could have wired internet with the Ethernet cable right. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.440 If it was wired, no problem, But the Wi Fi 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.040 was going to produce a lot of problems because you're 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:57.080 I mean, that's a your routers, a radio transmitter. So yeah, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.040 Apparently a lot of people, as we'll see, are like, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.520 well whatever, I'm still going to have Wi Fi, including 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:09.040 Green Bank Observatory employees who live there. But it's still 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.400 it's a big problem because if you live in that region, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.560 it still affects you in all sorts of ways. Like 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.600 an It gives the example of if your car breaks down, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.639 you don't just call somebody on the cell phone be 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.600 like I need a toe, Sure you're walking unless somebody 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.960 friendly drives by who you know and trust. They probably 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.159 had dinner at their house and will give you a 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.840 ride to somewhere. People use payphones. As we'll see, you 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.200 can definitely feel disconnected just from not having cell service, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.280 let alone from Wi Fi. But that said, I think 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.199 we'll talk a little more about it later. But the 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.440 people who work for Green Bank Observatory try to work 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.920 with the community because although technically it's law that they 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.320 can regulate this and punish people who violate these rules, don't. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.760 They are trying to keep a happy relationship with the 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.400 community and figure out compromises that work for everybody. That's 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:09.280 kind of that's what they try to do. I think 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:10.840 if you talk to some of the people who live 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:16.040 around there or elected officials around there, they might not 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.199 necessarily agree with you, But that seems to be at 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.639 least the mission of the Green Bank Observatory. 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.840 Yeah, and again that's specifically the Green Bank, which is 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.480 the most restrictive area where you're not gonna have any 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.359 cell service and like I said, until very recently, no 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.159 Wi Fi at all. There like no Bluetooth devices, no 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.560 RC cars and trucks for the kids and playful adults, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.520 no microwaves. But like you said, I think you hinted 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.879 at it a lot of people or some people, because 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.159 there's not a lot of people there period, but some 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.639 people move there for that reason. They want a simpler lifestyle, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.879 they want less technology. And we'll talk a little bit 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.520 more about, you know, kind of some of the people 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.960 that attracts because it can get very interesting, other peop 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.199 people can get annoyed. Most people there probably just you know, 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.480 that's where they've always lived and so that's just the deal. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.480 It's a way of life. I think in twenty sixteen 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:14.000 that was an Italian graduate student named Jeffrero Carlini who 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.560 traveled there to study like the people and were like, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.960 you know, what's it like for the people that live there? 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.760 And he found and this is a very small scale study. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.679 It wasn't like the most robust scientific thing, but I 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.720 think just walking around and studying and talking to people, 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:30.919 he found that people seem to have lower anxiety there. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.600 But it's different. You know, they use maps, they use 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.640 payphones still, just. 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:45.240 The idea of not having access to like social media, 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.919 and yeah, a lot just a lot of like modern 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.520 life or having a cell phone, like being able to 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.560 be contacted all the time. I can't help but think 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.679 that yes, you as a group would have less anxiety 0:20:59.119 --> 0:20:59.480 on the. 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.000 Whole, especially teens. I think it was Australia. Didn't they 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:04.760 just pass a loss thing you couldn't be on social 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:06.879 media until you were a certain. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:07.920 Age I think sixteen. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.480 Hats off to you guys, because yeah, that's how it 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:16.560 should be. Teens there do have things like iPhones, they 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.840 can't use them for textra calls. So there was one 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.840 team that said, it's basically a clock and a calculator, 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.639 so imagine imagine calculator. Watches are very much in style. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:31.360 Still, yeah, those cassio ones, Yeah, those are awesome. The 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.639 thing is is this is all I mean as of 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.840 last year I think, meaning twenty twenty five, but also 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.520 some changes really started to take place, I think in 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.399 the summer of twenty twenty four, like certain kinds of 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:49.040 Wi Fi is now allowed, and things are now changing. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.959 I mean once you add widespread internet access, like the 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.159 world's going to change or this area is going to 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:01.520 change overnight. Basically the better writing imagine going right, Imagine 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.360 going from nineteen ninety seven to twenty twenty five in 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.600 this in the span of a day after installing a 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:11.960 Wi Fi router in your house. 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.720 Well, I mean that's one thing. Anna mentions sort of 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:16.879 at the end of her research was like there was 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.879 a while there where the Gulf was really big, like 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.479 when you know, for the longest time, it was like, well, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.280 things aren't that much different, sure, but then once the 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.639 Internet came along and then they weren't getting things like 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.120 Wi Fi and Bluetooth, Like the golf got pretty wide 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.000 there for a while. But like we said, it attracts 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:38.120 a lot of interesting folks. There are certainly some some 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.080 conspiracy theorists that go there on purpose. The National Alliance 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.840 Headquarters for the Neo Nazis has been in Poconnas County 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.760 for a long time. Obviously you're gonna get some hippies, 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.080