WEBVTT - A Little Thing Called Hope 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.080 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:19.120 Your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.760 I'm taking a little bit of a respite as we 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.799 prepare to barrel into the Democratic Convention at the end 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.960 of this month, but as always, I'm leaving you with 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:35.000 some juicy episodes to dig into. Coming up. On today's episode, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.800 I interview my friend and friend of the show, Jennifer Tobb, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.280 who is, as you know, a law professor. She is 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.199 the host of Morning with Jen on the Mary Trump Network. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.640 She is also the host of Legal Nerds on the 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.920 Mary Trump Network and is just a mind that I 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:59.040 love to tap into. And on today's episode, we discuss 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:04.240 the momentum that is the vice president's campaign. At the 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.600 moment of this recording, we do not yet know who 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.520 the vice presidential pick is, but we are talking about 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.200 all of the people powered calls and organizing that it's 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.800 happening at the grassroots level that are bringing in millions 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.600 and millions of dollars for the campaign. And Jen joined 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.080 two of the calls and gives us some insight into 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.920 what is being said, how people are feeling. But her 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.600 and I for the first time in a very long time, 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.080 talk about this little thing called hope, this little thing 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.640 called excitement and faith that we are feeling in this 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.240 very moment, and hopefully by the time that y'all are 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.960 listening to this, that feeling is continuing to roll in. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:55.080 So coming up next my conversation with the incomparable Gentile Friends. 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.920 Whenever I get to chat with our friend friend of 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.920 the show, gent Tobb, I am always always so delighted 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.280 and grateful. You know her. She's a law professor. She's 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.600 the author of Big Dirty Money and Other People's Houses. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.839 She is also the host of Morning with Jim on 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.160 Mary Trump's new network, Mary Trump Media. She's also a 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.920 nerd Avenger, which I am so happy to say that 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:23.919 I am also a nerd adventurer and the host of 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.480 Legal Nerds. I mean, you're giving me a run for 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.320 my money. I was supposed to be the one with 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.560 the most podcasts and shows and now you have seventeen. 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.639 Yeah, I'm trying to cut back, but you know, it's 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:35.639 like potato. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:40.640 Chips, just keep eating them, just keep getting shows. So, Jen, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.600 since the last time we spoke, dare I say we 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.919 are in a better place as Democrats. Dare I say 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.840 that we may be feeling a bit more hopeful than 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.600 the place we were several weeks ago when we spoke. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.720 Let's start off. You tell me how you were feeling 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.400 since the seismic shift in our election cycle, with Joe 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.040 Biden making the courageous and brave decision I think, to 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:15.760 step aside and his vice president Kamala Harris taking the reins. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.440 It has been, you know, just a short period of time. 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:19.960 Days. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.560 Yes, at the time of this recording, it's been eight days. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:24.920 How are you feeling. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.920 I tend to traffic in metaphors when words don't suffice 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.440 to describe something as seismic as we're going through, and 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.400 so it reminds me of the Hollywood film classic The 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:43.040 Wizard of Oz when Dorothy exits the world, you know, 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:47.320 the black and white world in Kansas and steps into technicolor. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:53.520 I mean, this is emotionally feels like an awakening. Of course, 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.720 you know, you were and I were going to support 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.880 whoever was at the top of the Democratic ticket, and 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.400 I was someone who would say, no, it's not lesser 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.960 of two evils. Joe Biden's had an incredible record, and 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.080 that's true, but I also know how people operate in 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.440 the world who aren't in the Amtrak don't live in 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.920 the Amtrak corridor. And now that I'm back in Michigan, 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.440 I get that people live their lives and not everybody 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.839 is fully focused on things. And the drama of Biden 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:28.520 stepping down and endorsing Kamala Harris the energy and expertise 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:34.640 that she brings into the conversation, and it's sort of 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:41.040 like the opposite of PTSD. It's PTJD post wait, PJTD 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.800 post joy, I do, can't do it whatever. It's the 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.440 reminder of joy we all feel like two thousand and eight, 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:53.120 and more so because it feels like maybe if we 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.719 can actually do this, we're still moving forward. And Donald 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:03.360 Trump was that last gasp, and not the authoritarian movement that's, 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.279 you know, the right wing, white supremacist authoritarian movement that 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.080 is kind of sweeping the globe, like maybe we are 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.800 going to be like France. Maybe we are going to 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.440 be like the UK that's rejecting Brexit now and so 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.440 on and is now moving left. But we don't know. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.839 So most of me is filled with joy and hope 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.240 while also knowing that the stakes have not changed. And 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:34.240 knowing that we have a dangerous, lawless, rapist, fraudster who 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:39.920 has before instigated insurrection using the violence of mobs, does 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.719 not want to lose, So I don't know when we 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.279 get to exhale. So you know, it's like I feel 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.320 filled with joy and at the same time, my stomach 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:52.080 is still in knots. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.760 Yeah, I think that I feel the same way, and 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.159 you put good imagery to it, because you know, I 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.000 tell my listeners all the time that I walk around 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.280 with a mustard seed of hope, right, and that what 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.880 has happened over this last several days is that that 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.000 seed has multiplied one hundred times over in a way 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.280 that I never thought would happen. I have been talking 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:25.880 on WOKF and other shows about just how devastated this 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:30.520 country will be if Donald Trump takes the reins again 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.839 and never lets go. And what we just saw recently 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.520 with his interview with what's her name ingram over at 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.160 Fox is even when spoonfed the right thing to say, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.440 did you really mean Donald Trump to tell Christians that 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.760 if they vote in this election, they'll never have to 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.800 vote again? Is that I don't think that that's what 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.799 you meant, But that's what you know the lefties are saying. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:59.120 And when spoon fed, Donald Trump spit it out and said, nah, 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.520 that's what I meant. They don't ever have to vote again. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.520 Everything will be fixed and it'll be good and they 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.760 can just go back to their lives. And so it's 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.720 hard to find joy when there is so much on 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:18.000 the line. But somehow Vice President Harris's juxtaposition of the 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.720 healthscape that Project twenty twenty five and Donald Trump want 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.000 to create and her idea of freedom, her actual video 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:31.560 Beyonce soundtrack of Freedom attached to it just presents like 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.040 air at a time when I think that we were gasping. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.559 I mean that is true. I mean I was thinking 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:42.600 of the visual, but you are also talking about the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.080 physical right and it feels it feels not just like 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.680 being able to breathe, because I'm someone with asthma and 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.400 so I know what you mean, but it also feels 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.360 like the weight you know that metaphor the weight lifted 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.520 off of us. And the other thing I have to say, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.680 no matter what happens, what I have seen in the 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:09.040 last eight days from Joeteika Edie, someone who was who 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.720 should be better known, who wasn't as well known in 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.640 the mainstream press, who is organized and started a group 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.800 called a Win with Black Women. How she just jumped 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:24.160 right in Sunday night organized a zoom call, which it 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.920 basically cut the path. You know, it just created this 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.640 momentum the same way that we I was talking about 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.880 today on Morning Jen. You know, it's this way that 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.440 I know everyone says, you know, social media and Twitter 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.200 isn't the real world. But in a way, this is 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:43.160 like the first kind of meme YouTube, Twitter kind of 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.480 fundraising campaign effort like shed you know, because people know 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.240 each other, because she probably knows Shannon Watts from her 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.120 organizing work with Mons Demand. A lot of trust has 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.200 been built up across communities over the COVID era. Over 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.680 people have learned to trust people they don't know, and 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.360 so pretty easy to reach out to Shannon or for 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.920 Shannon to reach out to her and say, like, how 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.080 do we do this? How do we build on what 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.839 you've done and acknowledge what you've done? And then you 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.640 see all these other groups doing this and it is 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:18.440 really important. And yes, you know, we're not solely the 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.760 identities the various intersexual identities that we each have, but 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.080 sometimes that's how we are cut up demographically for voting purposes, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.640 and the reality is it is true when we look 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.000 at who actually if we want to elect Kamala Harris, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.640 where we have to bring up the numbers voters have 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.760 to turn out, but we also have to convert people 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.200 from blindly voting for Republican Canada because they believe these 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.960 false stories. And you know, I think that organizing. You know, 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.360 I've been on a lot of the calls. I even 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.720 last night was on the white Dudes for Harris call 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.880 because my sort of way of moving about the world 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.520 is sort of like a white male more so than 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.040 a white and that's hard to It's not my gender identity, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.440 but it's just I don't always fully identify with the 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.400 same struggles that white women go through. Like I'm not 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.600 one of the you know how people in the call 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.640 were saying, and if you listened in on it, like, hey, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.120 we white women are sometimes you know, staying silent because 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.720 it's easier, and I'm like, well, that's not me, you 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.640 know what I mean? So if anything, I'm the sort 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.520 of like the interrupting male who doesn't let someone get 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.760 in a word in edgewise or or whatever it is. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.160 So for me, it was nice to be on both 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.160 calls right because I think I have, you know, white 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.520 female privilege, which is very different than white male privilege. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.040 And I also think that voting wise, I vote more 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:39.839 like women who are going to be more likely to 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.240 support Harris than I would like like a man. But 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.200 at the same time, the energy very different energy from 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.240 the calls. Loved them both for different reasons. Anyway, I 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.000 just I don't know how I got down this path, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:54.480 but I feel like, well, I guess what I'm saying 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:59.120 is to hear white men, to see black men say 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.880 we're support Harris, to see men people identify as male 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.080 to say this woman we want as our candidate, and 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.559 to put their time and their money behind this. I mean, 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.640 that is something in my lifetime I'm not sure I 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.880 expected to see, and it feels so f and good. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.960 I want to, you know, remind folks that joeteika Edia, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.840 as you said, launched these efforts, these calls that have 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.040 been popping up every single day, multiple a day, happening 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.960 with different identity groups, starting with black women, moving to 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.160 black men that was led by Roland Martin and Bacari Sellers, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.640 moving to white women answer the call with Shannon Watts, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.640 and then down the line Southeast Asian women, Latino men, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.080 white dudes. All of those things have been happening. The 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.600 queer call has happened, a disability call has happened. And 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.040 to your point, Jen, when you say, you know, we 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.000 are the intersection of so many different identities. But I 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.320 think that the power in identifying in a way that 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.680 polsters identifies what do the white women think, what do 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.559 the rural people think? Right? They pull out these characteristics 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.720 and then they wrap stereotypes around them, and I almost 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:20.200 think that these calls help us reclaim pieces of those 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.520 identities that have been flattened in our political discourse and 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.600 really put some weight and energy and death, which is 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.720 needed because voters are not one dimensional, right, So talk 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.400 to us Because I have interviewed Shannon has been on 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.240 this show throughout the years, and I've always enjoyed our 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.760 conversations and think very highly of her, and so I 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.880 knew that if there was going to be anyone that 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:49.120 was going to pick up the baton that Joeteika was holding, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.760 it would be Shannon. Talk to us about some of 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.840 the things that were talked about that you learned on 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.040 that white women answer the call. 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.120 Yeah, I think, I think that I maybe I'll talk 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.080 about three different things. I mean, the first thing was 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.640 immediately recognizing that Joe Teika did the first call, right, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.000 because we've seen other things like the Me too movement. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.040 Oh yes, I mean, you know, we've seen movements started 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.199 by black women be co opted by white women. Whether 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.320 intentionally or unintentionally doesn't even matter. We've seen so much 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.240 of that. So you know, it started out with the designation, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:34.520 the recognition. And I think also what I noticed, I'm 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.400 just trying to remember how to choose my the things. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:42.320 What I what I noticed is, gosh, it was so 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.080 great to hear just different people say it. And I'm 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.080 thinking it was Glennon Doyle who said it, but that hey, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.280 are we doing this? Are we calling ourself white women? 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:50.000 Like? 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.640 That's something. You know, there's a generation, a couple of 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.920 generations above us, maybe you know, the older baby Boomers 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.400 or the silent generation, where white people were trained to 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.400 pretend they were colored blind because to designate, first of all, 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.240 not even to see whiteness as a race right or 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.600 as a category, but also not to really talk about race, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:18.120 because if you did, then you were trying to harken 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.000 back to hierarchies that you pretend don't exist anymore. Right, 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.400 So everyone on this call was so beyond that, like, 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.600 we get why we're together. The call was open to everybody, 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.560 but we I think that everyone who spoke spoke from 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.640 a place of saying I guess the subtext was, this 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.200 isn't the same feminism that used to be. Like it 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.160 really felt like, how do we you know? I remember 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.800 taking women's studies classes years ago and feeling like, wow, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.440 the women's movement has always been fractured, you know whether 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.480 it was and I don't. There's so many waves of 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.400 women's movements. But thinking of like you know, the Betty 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.480 for Dan kind of saying when her whole book of like, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.520 you know, women should be able work. It's like some 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:02.280 women have. 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.360 Been a right, have been forced to work. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.240 They're forced to work, and they're working in your home 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:09.920 and they don't get to take care of their own kids. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.760 And what is women's work? Just like what is a 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.800 black dot? But this stuff is really super complicated. But 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.320 everyone I felt like on this call had been there, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.240 done that, and we're so glad to be together to say, hey, 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.080 let's recognize that we're not all in the same place. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.120 Let's recognize that, you know, white women have access to 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.840 other white women, to white men to actually have these 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.560 hard conversations. I love Glennon Doyle saying something which may 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.360 have upset some people, but it made me so flip 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.080 and happy. She said, you know what, guys, don't go 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.960 write some postcards. I know postcards supposedly change votes. Great, 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.200 but what she was saying is, instead of going out 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.000 and sending a postcard to some person in a different 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.600 swing state you don't know, do the harder work of 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.480 getting on the phone or being face to face to 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.200 one relative or one friend that you know is planning 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:00.800 to vote for Donald Trump. If you can change that 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.720 one person, you've changed the world. And there were at 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.680 one point because they were actually trying to zoom people 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.640 and not just putting them on the YouTube. And you know, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.880 there were over one hundred and fifty thousand people on 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.960 that call. If all of us just converted one person 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.120 in a swing state, we've done. And so again, I 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.120 don't want to belittle people who write postcards because that's 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.160 how you want to do it, But do the hard 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:28.440 work of telling people why we need to support Kamala Harris, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.800 and it felt like that. It also felt like and 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.400 there were some people in this I did not resonate 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.360 for me, but I think it resonated for others. And 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.880 it was Glennon whod said this sort of like that. Well, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.480 maybe I don't know, it's not true. I think it 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.920 does resonate in some way that we are so acculturated 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.800 and we are raised. And I don't know if this 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.760 is true for people who aren't white, but for women 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.760 to not have anyone be unhappy with you and so 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:59.440 you don't being liked, being considered polite, not being confrontational 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.120 is the way that people get by. Again, you know, me, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.399 that doesn't really fully fit me, but again I have 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:13.560 to recognize that's where most white women actually exist. Yeah, right, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.200 in being a white Jewish woman, maybe that's different, right, 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.480 Maybe we're more in your face. I don't know, but 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.560 I heard it and I and it makes me understand 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.920 better how to deal with other white women. And maybe 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.200 I shouldn't come on so strong. Like when I deal 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.040 with men generally in my life, it's sometimes easier to 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:34.479 deal with them because you can just be in their 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.000 face and just say shit, Like maybe I feel that 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.040 way about about you two. But I have noticed to 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.520 cunder Green Vine like one of those old old women's 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.399 studies classes where no one wants to interrupt everyone ever 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.440 and saying I'm sorry. And the call felt a little 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.560 bit like that, But at the same time it felt 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.800 incredible because we raised on that call and afterward like 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.160 eight million dollars. Oh the other thing I got called out, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.399 not directly, but indirectly. I was like, trying to donate 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.360 right link isn't working, and so we're all like texting 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.040 people or saying on you know, like I did a 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.520 mess at DM too while she's trying to run the 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.080 flip and call to Shannon saying, you know, we can't 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.119 donate because of course I don't want it to fail 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:13.840 because people. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:14.399 Don't doing it right. 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.440 Yeah, but they're like, you know what, guys, everything doesn't 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.520 have to work out. Stop, you know, don't cry about 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.639 the fact you know there's no manager to call. Just 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.560 wait and donate, you know what I mean. And so 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.040 that felt okay, I don't know, I mean, I felt overall, 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.800 it felt good Again. Doing the hard work is harder 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.560 for me. It's easy for me to go on Twitter 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.280 and mouth off or go on my show and say something. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.239 Having the conversation with a person I can think of 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.879 that I need to have this conversation with in a 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.320 swing state to get her to vote for Harris. That's, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:47.080 you know. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.680 Because that's putting something on the line. Do you know 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.200 what I'm saying? Like, that's having a stake, that is 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:58.120 a personal stake in this election and in these conversations, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.080 And I think that too often. The reason why I 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.679 was like, yes, Joe Taika, Yes, like you're leading the 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.480 way and all of these people are recognizing and uplifting 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.560 you because I feel like lessons have been learned since 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.399 twenty twenty, lessons have been learned since twenty sixteen, and people, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:20.480 particularly white women, who gained in numbers for Donald Trump 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.680 from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, which was like, what 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.159 the fuck? How does that happen? And so I feel 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:32.720 like there was some deep personal responsibility, but also some 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:38.399 really I'm hopeful that this is the beginning of deeper excavation. Yes, 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.600 it felt that way of just how misogyny and patriarchy 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:47.920 are so deeply intertwined and in bed with white supremacy right, 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.159 and that these things are not siloed things, and so 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:57.320 it is about an ideology that has been fed since 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.119 birth on how to act, how to show up, how 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.080 to not take up too much space, how to you know, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.399 align with your man, how. 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.320 To trust men to make the decisions. Yeah, I mean what, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.240 it's really hard, Like our minds are even co opted 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.800 in such a way that even lying lying is like 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.960 like in other words, women could can go into the 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.679 voting booth and vote for Kamala Harris and if their 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.240 husband asks, they can say, oh, yeah, I voted for Trump, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.800 but they we wouldn't as a white woman, to do 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.840 that would be tantamount to setting fire to your house, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.959 Like we are acculturated that we don't even You're supposed 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.480 to be a good girl, right and you can't taking 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.240 that step, you know, is hard. And I think I 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.640 think in my conversations and maybe other white women might 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.480 do this is say to someone I know, like I 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.200 know a lot of people who will not vote for Trump, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:47.800 but they say, well, I'm not going to vote for 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:49.520 Biden or I'm not going to vote for Harris. And 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.120 what I want to say is to these folks, especially 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.800 to other white women, is would you do this for me? 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.439 Would you do this for my daughters? Would you do 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.680 this because I'm terrified about where things are going? Would 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.520 you trust me because I was right before. I told 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.520 you before that they were going to put these justices 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.720 on that overturn row versus weight, and you told me no, 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.200 you thought they would. Those justices were telling the truth, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.440 and they did. Could you trust me this time around? Like, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.679 how do we crey to people? How are you going 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.840 to feel the day after? If I'm right this time 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.960 and he starts literally rounding up millions of people and 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.480 putting them in camps, there's no going back there. So 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.200 take a chance for me, you know. And I'm trying 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.119 to figure out those conversations to have with people. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.480 I mean, I think that you know, one, it's just 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.800 so important because we're taught from a very young age 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.080 to be polite, don't talk about politics at the dinner table, 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.120 don't talk about religion. And I'm just like, and these 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.480 are two fundamental things that make up who we are, 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.399 that make up our character, right, whether or not you 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.840 subscribe to a religion or not, whether or not you 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.280 have a political affiliation, but there is something and if 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.120 we learned how to have hard conversations with each other. 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.679 Then a Trump would have never existed in the first place, 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.600 because we would have been able to talk about this 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.680 in twenty fifteen. And so last thoughts to you, Jen, 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.520 which is you've said at the top, this feels like 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.960 two thousand and eight but different. Do you think that 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.520 in the next ninety some odd days that we have 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:32.720 the ability to do the impossible again? That this isn't 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:37.080 just a flash in the pan because we're just excited 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:41.040 in this week, but that something really does feel different. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.959 Yes, And there's two things that are critical. One is, 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.000 don't let anyone take away from us the they're weird 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:53.760 and creepy message that resonates so much for people you say, oh, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:59.240 asoritarian or fascist. Most people I know, you know, not that. 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.720 People who listen not you, and I they get you know, 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.679 you say to somebody, it's really weird, it's really creepy 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:11.320 that they want to monitor people's periods, that you know 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.920 that every woman's eyes are going to pop open on that, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:16.679 that they don't even think there should be an exception 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:21.119