1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet 2 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: Your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: I'm taking a little bit of a respite as we 4 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: prepare to barrel into the Democratic Convention at the end 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: of this month, but as always, I'm leaving you with 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: some juicy episodes to dig into. Coming up. On today's episode, 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: I interview my friend and friend of the show, Jennifer Tobb, 8 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: who is, as you know, a law professor. She is 9 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: the host of Morning with Jen on the Mary Trump Network. 10 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: She is also the host of Legal Nerds on the 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: Mary Trump Network and is just a mind that I 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: love to tap into. And on today's episode, we discuss 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: the momentum that is the vice president's campaign. At the 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: moment of this recording, we do not yet know who 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: the vice presidential pick is, but we are talking about 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: all of the people powered calls and organizing that it's 17 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: happening at the grassroots level that are bringing in millions 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: and millions of dollars for the campaign. And Jen joined 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: two of the calls and gives us some insight into 20 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: what is being said, how people are feeling. But her 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: and I for the first time in a very long time, 22 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: talk about this little thing called hope, this little thing 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: called excitement and faith that we are feeling in this 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: very moment, and hopefully by the time that y'all are 25 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: listening to this, that feeling is continuing to roll in. 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: So coming up next my conversation with the incomparable Gentile Friends. 27 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: Whenever I get to chat with our friend friend of 28 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: the show, gent Tobb, I am always always so delighted 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: and grateful. You know her. She's a law professor. She's 30 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: the author of Big Dirty Money and Other People's Houses. 31 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 1: She is also the host of Morning with Jim on 32 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: Mary Trump's new network, Mary Trump Media. She's also a 33 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: nerd Avenger, which I am so happy to say that 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: I am also a nerd adventurer and the host of 35 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: Legal Nerds. I mean, you're giving me a run for 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: my money. I was supposed to be the one with 37 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: the most podcasts and shows and now you have seventeen. 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to cut back, but you know, it's 39 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 2: like potato. 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: Chips, just keep eating them, just keep getting shows. So, Jen, 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: since the last time we spoke, dare I say we 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: are in a better place as Democrats. Dare I say 43 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: that we may be feeling a bit more hopeful than 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: the place we were several weeks ago when we spoke. 45 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: Let's start off. You tell me how you were feeling 46 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: since the seismic shift in our election cycle, with Joe 47 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: Biden making the courageous and brave decision I think, to 48 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: step aside and his vice president Kamala Harris taking the reins. 49 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: It has been, you know, just a short period of time. 50 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: Days. 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: Yes, at the time of this recording, it's been eight days. 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: How are you feeling. 53 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: I tend to traffic in metaphors when words don't suffice 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: to describe something as seismic as we're going through, and 55 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: so it reminds me of the Hollywood film classic The 56 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz when Dorothy exits the world, you know, 57 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: the black and white world in Kansas and steps into technicolor. 58 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: I mean, this is emotionally feels like an awakening. Of course, 59 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: you know, you were and I were going to support 60 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: whoever was at the top of the Democratic ticket, and 61 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: I was someone who would say, no, it's not lesser 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: of two evils. Joe Biden's had an incredible record, and 63 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: that's true, but I also know how people operate in 64 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: the world who aren't in the Amtrak don't live in 65 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: the Amtrak corridor. And now that I'm back in Michigan, 66 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: I get that people live their lives and not everybody 67 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: is fully focused on things. And the drama of Biden 68 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: stepping down and endorsing Kamala Harris the energy and expertise 69 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: that she brings into the conversation, and it's sort of 70 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: like the opposite of PTSD. It's PTJD post wait, PJTD 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: post joy, I do, can't do it whatever. It's the 72 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: reminder of joy we all feel like two thousand and eight, 73 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: and more so because it feels like maybe if we 74 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: can actually do this, we're still moving forward. And Donald 75 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: Trump was that last gasp, and not the authoritarian movement that's, 76 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: you know, the right wing, white supremacist authoritarian movement that 77 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: is kind of sweeping the globe, like maybe we are 78 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: going to be like France. Maybe we are going to 79 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: be like the UK that's rejecting Brexit now and so 80 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: on and is now moving left. But we don't know. 81 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: So most of me is filled with joy and hope 82 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: while also knowing that the stakes have not changed. And 83 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: knowing that we have a dangerous, lawless, rapist, fraudster who 84 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 2: has before instigated insurrection using the violence of mobs, does 85 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: not want to lose, So I don't know when we 86 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: get to exhale. So you know, it's like I feel 87 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: filled with joy and at the same time, my stomach 88 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: is still in knots. 89 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I feel the same way, and 90 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: you put good imagery to it, because you know, I 91 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: tell my listeners all the time that I walk around 92 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: with a mustard seed of hope, right, and that what 93 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: has happened over this last several days is that that 94 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: seed has multiplied one hundred times over in a way 95 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: that I never thought would happen. I have been talking 96 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: on WOKF and other shows about just how devastated this 97 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: country will be if Donald Trump takes the reins again 98 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: and never lets go. And what we just saw recently 99 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: with his interview with what's her name ingram over at 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: Fox is even when spoonfed the right thing to say, 101 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: did you really mean Donald Trump to tell Christians that 102 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: if they vote in this election, they'll never have to 103 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: vote again? Is that I don't think that that's what 104 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: you meant, But that's what you know the lefties are saying. 105 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: And when spoon fed, Donald Trump spit it out and said, nah, 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: that's what I meant. They don't ever have to vote again. 107 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: Everything will be fixed and it'll be good and they 108 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: can just go back to their lives. And so it's 109 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: hard to find joy when there is so much on 110 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the line. But somehow Vice President Harris's juxtaposition of the 111 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: healthscape that Project twenty twenty five and Donald Trump want 112 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: to create and her idea of freedom, her actual video 113 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Beyonce soundtrack of Freedom attached to it just presents like 114 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: air at a time when I think that we were gasping. 115 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,559 Speaker 2: I mean that is true. I mean I was thinking 116 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: of the visual, but you are also talking about the 117 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: physical right and it feels it feels not just like 118 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: being able to breathe, because I'm someone with asthma and 119 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: so I know what you mean, but it also feels 120 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: like the weight you know that metaphor the weight lifted 121 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: off of us. And the other thing I have to say, 122 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: no matter what happens, what I have seen in the 123 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: last eight days from Joeteika Edie, someone who was who 124 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: should be better known, who wasn't as well known in 125 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: the mainstream press, who is organized and started a group 126 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: called a Win with Black Women. How she just jumped 127 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: right in Sunday night organized a zoom call, which it 128 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: basically cut the path. You know, it just created this 129 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: momentum the same way that we I was talking about 130 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: today on Morning Jen. You know, it's this way that 131 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: I know everyone says, you know, social media and Twitter 132 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 2: isn't the real world. But in a way, this is 133 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: like the first kind of meme YouTube, Twitter kind of 134 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: fundraising campaign effort like shed you know, because people know 135 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: each other, because she probably knows Shannon Watts from her 136 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: organizing work with Mons Demand. A lot of trust has 137 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: been built up across communities over the COVID era. Over 138 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: people have learned to trust people they don't know, and 139 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: so pretty easy to reach out to Shannon or for 140 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: Shannon to reach out to her and say, like, how 141 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: do we do this? How do we build on what 142 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 2: you've done and acknowledge what you've done? And then you 143 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: see all these other groups doing this and it is 144 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: really important. And yes, you know, we're not solely the 145 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: identities the various intersexual identities that we each have, but 146 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: sometimes that's how we are cut up demographically for voting purposes, 147 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: and the reality is it is true when we look 148 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: at who actually if we want to elect Kamala Harris, 149 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: where we have to bring up the numbers voters have 150 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: to turn out, but we also have to convert people 151 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: from blindly voting for Republican Canada because they believe these 152 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 2: false stories. And you know, I think that organizing. You know, 153 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: I've been on a lot of the calls. I even 154 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: last night was on the white Dudes for Harris call 155 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: because my sort of way of moving about the world 156 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: is sort of like a white male more so than 157 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: a white and that's hard to It's not my gender identity, 158 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: but it's just I don't always fully identify with the 159 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: same struggles that white women go through. Like I'm not 160 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: one of the you know how people in the call 161 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: were saying, and if you listened in on it, like, hey, 162 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: we white women are sometimes you know, staying silent because 163 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: it's easier, and I'm like, well, that's not me, you 164 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: know what I mean? So if anything, I'm the sort 165 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: of like the interrupting male who doesn't let someone get 166 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: in a word in edgewise or or whatever it is. 167 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: So for me, it was nice to be on both 168 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: calls right because I think I have, you know, white 169 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: female privilege, which is very different than white male privilege. 170 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: And I also think that voting wise, I vote more 171 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: like women who are going to be more likely to 172 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: support Harris than I would like like a man. But 173 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: at the same time, the energy very different energy from 174 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: the calls. Loved them both for different reasons. Anyway, I 175 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: just I don't know how I got down this path, 176 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: but I feel like, well, I guess what I'm saying 177 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: is to hear white men, to see black men say 178 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: we're support Harris, to see men people identify as male 179 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: to say this woman we want as our candidate, and 180 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: to put their time and their money behind this. I mean, 181 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: that is something in my lifetime I'm not sure I 182 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: expected to see, and it feels so f and good. 183 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: I want to, you know, remind folks that joeteika Edia, 184 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: as you said, launched these efforts, these calls that have 185 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: been popping up every single day, multiple a day, happening 186 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: with different identity groups, starting with black women, moving to 187 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: black men that was led by Roland Martin and Bacari Sellers, 188 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: moving to white women answer the call with Shannon Watts, 189 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: and then down the line Southeast Asian women, Latino men, 190 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: white dudes. All of those things have been happening. The 191 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: queer call has happened, a disability call has happened. And 192 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: to your point, Jen, when you say, you know, we 193 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: are the intersection of so many different identities. But I 194 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: think that the power in identifying in a way that 195 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: polsters identifies what do the white women think, what do 196 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: the rural people think? Right? They pull out these characteristics 197 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: and then they wrap stereotypes around them, and I almost 198 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: think that these calls help us reclaim pieces of those 199 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: identities that have been flattened in our political discourse and 200 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: really put some weight and energy and death, which is 201 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: needed because voters are not one dimensional, right, So talk 202 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: to us Because I have interviewed Shannon has been on 203 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: this show throughout the years, and I've always enjoyed our 204 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: conversations and think very highly of her, and so I 205 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: knew that if there was going to be anyone that 206 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: was going to pick up the baton that Joeteika was holding, 207 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: it would be Shannon. Talk to us about some of 208 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: the things that were talked about that you learned on 209 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: that white women answer the call. 210 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I think that I maybe I'll talk 211 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: about three different things. I mean, the first thing was 212 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: immediately recognizing that Joe Teika did the first call, right, 213 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: because we've seen other things like the Me too movement. 214 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I mean, you know, we've seen movements started 215 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: by black women be co opted by white women. Whether 216 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: intentionally or unintentionally doesn't even matter. We've seen so much 217 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: of that. So you know, it started out with the designation, 218 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: the recognition. And I think also what I noticed, I'm 219 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 2: just trying to remember how to choose my the things. 220 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 2: What I what I noticed is, gosh, it was so 221 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: great to hear just different people say it. And I'm 222 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: thinking it was Glennon Doyle who said it, but that hey, 223 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: are we doing this? Are we calling ourself white women? 224 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: Like? 225 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: That's something. You know, there's a generation, a couple of 226 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: generations above us, maybe you know, the older baby Boomers 227 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: or the silent generation, where white people were trained to 228 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: pretend they were colored blind because to designate, first of all, 229 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 2: not even to see whiteness as a race right or 230 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: as a category, but also not to really talk about race, 231 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: because if you did, then you were trying to harken 232 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: back to hierarchies that you pretend don't exist anymore. Right, 233 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: So everyone on this call was so beyond that, like, 234 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: we get why we're together. The call was open to everybody, 235 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: but we I think that everyone who spoke spoke from 236 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: a place of saying I guess the subtext was, this 237 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: isn't the same feminism that used to be. Like it 238 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: really felt like, how do we you know? I remember 239 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: taking women's studies classes years ago and feeling like, wow, 240 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: the women's movement has always been fractured, you know whether 241 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: it was and I don't. There's so many waves of 242 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: women's movements. But thinking of like you know, the Betty 243 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: for Dan kind of saying when her whole book of like, 244 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: you know, women should be able work. It's like some 245 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: women have. 246 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: Been a right, have been forced to work. 247 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: They're forced to work, and they're working in your home 248 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 2: and they don't get to take care of their own kids. 249 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: And what is women's work? Just like what is a 250 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: black dot? But this stuff is really super complicated. But 251 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: everyone I felt like on this call had been there, 252 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: done that, and we're so glad to be together to say, hey, 253 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: let's recognize that we're not all in the same place. 254 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: Let's recognize that, you know, white women have access to 255 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: other white women, to white men to actually have these 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: hard conversations. I love Glennon Doyle saying something which may 257 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: have upset some people, but it made me so flip 258 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: and happy. She said, you know what, guys, don't go 259 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: write some postcards. I know postcards supposedly change votes. Great, 260 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: but what she was saying is, instead of going out 261 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: and sending a postcard to some person in a different 262 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: swing state you don't know, do the harder work of 263 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: getting on the phone or being face to face to 264 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: one relative or one friend that you know is planning 265 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: to vote for Donald Trump. If you can change that 266 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 2: one person, you've changed the world. And there were at 267 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: one point because they were actually trying to zoom people 268 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: and not just putting them on the YouTube. And you know, 269 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: there were over one hundred and fifty thousand people on 270 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: that call. If all of us just converted one person 271 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: in a swing state, we've done. And so again, I 272 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: don't want to belittle people who write postcards because that's 273 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: how you want to do it, But do the hard 274 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: work of telling people why we need to support Kamala Harris, 275 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: and it felt like that. It also felt like and 276 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: there were some people in this I did not resonate 277 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: for me, but I think it resonated for others. And 278 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: it was Glennon whod said this sort of like that. Well, 279 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: maybe I don't know, it's not true. I think it 280 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: does resonate in some way that we are so acculturated 281 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: and we are raised. And I don't know if this 282 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: is true for people who aren't white, but for women 283 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: to not have anyone be unhappy with you and so 284 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: you don't being liked, being considered polite, not being confrontational 285 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 2: is the way that people get by. Again, you know, me, 286 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: that doesn't really fully fit me, but again I have 287 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: to recognize that's where most white women actually exist. Yeah, right, 288 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: in being a white Jewish woman, maybe that's different, right, 289 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 2: Maybe we're more in your face. I don't know, but 290 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: I heard it and I and it makes me understand 291 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: better how to deal with other white women. And maybe 292 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: I shouldn't come on so strong. Like when I deal 293 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: with men generally in my life, it's sometimes easier to 294 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,479 Speaker 2: deal with them because you can just be in their 295 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: face and just say shit, Like maybe I feel that 296 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: way about about you two. But I have noticed to 297 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: cunder Green Vine like one of those old old women's 298 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 2: studies classes where no one wants to interrupt everyone ever 299 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: and saying I'm sorry. And the call felt a little 300 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: bit like that, But at the same time it felt 301 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: incredible because we raised on that call and afterward like 302 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 2: eight million dollars. Oh the other thing I got called out, 303 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: not directly, but indirectly. I was like, trying to donate 304 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: right link isn't working, and so we're all like texting 305 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: people or saying on you know, like I did a 306 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: mess at DM too while she's trying to run the 307 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: flip and call to Shannon saying, you know, we can't 308 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 2: donate because of course I don't want it to fail 309 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: because people. 310 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: Don't doing it right. 311 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're like, you know what, guys, everything doesn't 312 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: have to work out. Stop, you know, don't cry about 313 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: the fact you know there's no manager to call. Just 314 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: wait and donate, you know what I mean. And so 315 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: that felt okay, I don't know, I mean, I felt overall, 316 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: it felt good Again. Doing the hard work is harder 317 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: for me. It's easy for me to go on Twitter 318 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: and mouth off or go on my show and say something. 319 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 2: Having the conversation with a person I can think of 320 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 2: that I need to have this conversation with in a 321 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 2: swing state to get her to vote for Harris. That's, 322 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: you know. 323 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: Because that's putting something on the line. Do you know 324 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Like, that's having a stake, that is 325 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: a personal stake in this election and in these conversations, 326 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: And I think that too often. The reason why I 327 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: was like, yes, Joe Taika, Yes, like you're leading the 328 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: way and all of these people are recognizing and uplifting 329 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: you because I feel like lessons have been learned since 330 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, lessons have been learned since twenty sixteen, and people, 331 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: particularly white women, who gained in numbers for Donald Trump 332 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, which was like, what 333 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: the fuck? How does that happen? And so I feel 334 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: like there was some deep personal responsibility, but also some 335 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: really I'm hopeful that this is the beginning of deeper excavation. Yes, 336 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: it felt that way of just how misogyny and patriarchy 337 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: are so deeply intertwined and in bed with white supremacy right, 338 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: and that these things are not siloed things, and so 339 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: it is about an ideology that has been fed since 340 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: birth on how to act, how to show up, how 341 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: to not take up too much space, how to you know, 342 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: align with your man, how. 343 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: To trust men to make the decisions. Yeah, I mean what, 344 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 2: it's really hard, Like our minds are even co opted 345 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: in such a way that even lying lying is like 346 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: like in other words, women could can go into the 347 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 2: voting booth and vote for Kamala Harris and if their 348 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: husband asks, they can say, oh, yeah, I voted for Trump, 349 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: but they we wouldn't as a white woman, to do 350 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: that would be tantamount to setting fire to your house, 351 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 2: Like we are acculturated that we don't even You're supposed 352 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: to be a good girl, right and you can't taking 353 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: that step, you know, is hard. And I think I 354 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: think in my conversations and maybe other white women might 355 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: do this is say to someone I know, like I 356 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: know a lot of people who will not vote for Trump, 357 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: but they say, well, I'm not going to vote for 358 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: Biden or I'm not going to vote for Harris. And 359 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: what I want to say is to these folks, especially 360 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: to other white women, is would you do this for me? 361 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 2: Would you do this for my daughters? Would you do 362 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 2: this because I'm terrified about where things are going? Would 363 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: you trust me because I was right before. I told 364 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: you before that they were going to put these justices 365 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: on that overturn row versus weight, and you told me no, 366 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: you thought they would. Those justices were telling the truth, 367 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: and they did. Could you trust me this time around? Like, 368 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 2: how do we crey to people? How are you going 369 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: to feel the day after? If I'm right this time 370 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: and he starts literally rounding up millions of people and 371 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 2: putting them in camps, there's no going back there. So 372 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 2: take a chance for me, you know. And I'm trying 373 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 2: to figure out those conversations to have with people. 374 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you know, one, it's just 375 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: so important because we're taught from a very young age 376 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: to be polite, don't talk about politics at the dinner table, 377 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: don't talk about religion. And I'm just like, and these 378 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: are two fundamental things that make up who we are, 379 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: that make up our character, right, whether or not you 380 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: subscribe to a religion or not, whether or not you 381 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: have a political affiliation, but there is something and if 382 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: we learned how to have hard conversations with each other. 383 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: Then a Trump would have never existed in the first place, 384 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: because we would have been able to talk about this 385 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. And so last thoughts to you, Jen, 386 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: which is you've said at the top, this feels like 387 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight but different. Do you think that 388 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: in the next ninety some odd days that we have 389 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: the ability to do the impossible again? That this isn't 390 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: just a flash in the pan because we're just excited 391 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: in this week, but that something really does feel different. 392 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,959 Speaker 2: Yes, And there's two things that are critical. One is, 393 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: don't let anyone take away from us the they're weird 394 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: and creepy message that resonates so much for people you say, oh, 395 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: asoritarian or fascist. Most people I know, you know, not that. 396 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 2: People who listen not you, and I they get you know, 397 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: you say to somebody, it's really weird, it's really creepy 398 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: that they want to monitor people's periods, that you know 399 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: that every woman's eyes are going to pop open on that, 400 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 2: that they don't even think there should be an exception 401 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 2: for rap or incests because carrying your rapist baby to term, 402 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: that's a mere inconvenience. When you say this, it blows 403 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: people away, and so I know, more intellectual people are 404 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: worried that we shouldn't say words like creepy or weird, 405 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: that we should be able to give a twenty point 406 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 2: policy treatise. It's that's not how how it works. People 407 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: don't want to you know, the whole way I want 408 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: to have a beer with him, I don't want to 409 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: be in an elevator with him. Is also a way 410 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: to get someone not to fucking come for somebody, come on, 411 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: I know yep, okay one and two my older you know, 412 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 2: I don't name someone, but I have young people in 413 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: my wife and they you know they're age is because 414 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: they're young, But it's more like, why are these old 415 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 2: people who older than my grandparents running the country. And 416 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: so I don't really care who Harris chooses. We've talked 417 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: about that before. You know, I was leaning toward Tim Walls, 418 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: but a lot of people like Josh Shapiro because he 419 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: seems like a young go getter. I don't know about 420 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: the whole you know, stuff about Gaza and how that's 421 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: going to counterbalance with the young voters. But you've got 422 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: to be thinking about those flipping young voters because they're 423 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 2: excited right now, they're interested with what's going on with Harris. 424 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 2: There's a new Harris here instead of calling her a cop. 425 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: I think people are kind of understanding her record a 426 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: lot better because they not smearing her with some things. 427 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: And also, I mean, I could go on and on 428 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: of a why I love her and why she's so 429 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: much better than Trump, But we're talking about coalition. We 430 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: are a coalition, So I don't know. I think creepy 431 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: and weird will win the election, and I will go 432 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: to my grave on that point. 433 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: All right, Well, Jen, we will have you back a 434 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: number of times as we count down the less than 435 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: one hundred days until the election, and you know, let's 436 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: continue the excitement and more importantly, let's continue the conversation. 437 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: Always appreciate you, my friend. That is it for me today, 438 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: dear friends, on Woke a f as always, Power to 439 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: the people and to all the people. Power, get woke 440 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.