WEBVTT - Do fission reactors occur naturally? 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.720 Hey, or hey, where do you get all your energy from? 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.000 What do you mean? Well, you know you do this podcast, 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.000 we write books, you run a TV show, you survive 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.919 as a parent. What powers all of that activity? Fear? Maybe? Now, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.680 mostly it's just it is that it really just been 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.040 in this. There's no other secret sauce you think I 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.080 have like an arc reactor in my chest like Iron Man. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.519 It does seem like a superhuman level of activity. Sometimes 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:38.479 should be a Marvel character like Nanimate procrasta man Now, 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.919 I like Vnanim. I'll contact Marvel. I'll tell him it's 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.239 very appealing, all right, I hope they don't slip up. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.240 Hi I am or am a cartoonists and the creator 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.800 of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.039 and a professor at u C Irvine where we have 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.440 a working nuclear reactor. Oh my goodness. Is this out 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.440 of your garage or like in your office or do 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.319 you have an actual lab? No, under the chemistry building 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.360 there is a functioning nuclear reactor which you can go 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.480 and visit and like glows blue and everything. Is that 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.800 a good idea to put it under? Like a campus 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.000 full of thousands of kids? Well, I don't know, but 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.759 we weren't going to put it under the physics building. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.039 That's why it ended up under the chemistry building. Oh, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.240 I see, the chemistry people are more expendable. I didn't 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:37.960 say that. I'm just happy to not have it in 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.720 my building. They're just danser and can absorb all of 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.360 the you know, particles that come out. But it's pretty 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.040 cool to visit and to like imagine all those crazy 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.040 particle things happening right down in there. But anyways, welcome 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.600 to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.320 production of I Heart Radio in which we do get 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.080 right down in there. We talk about all of the crazy, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:01.000 amazing things that are really happening out there in the universe. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.720 This chaotic buzz of insanity which is reality, is the 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.160 subject of the podcast and the thing that we try 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.680 to explain, and we shy away from none of it, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.880 from the tiniest little things to the hugest, vastest mysteries 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.600 of the deepest cosmos. We attack all of it and 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.240 explain all of it to you. That's right, because the 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.800 universe sort of doesn't sleep. There's always something going on 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.000 in the universe, making energy exploding and crashing into each other. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.920 And it's amazing to think about the idea that we 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.119 could one day understand all of it. That is a 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.600 crazy idea I've never heard before, that the universe might 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.360 even sleep, you know, like imagine if like all of 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.240 physics went to bed at night and just like stopped 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:46.000 happening to a nap, cosmic nap, like the universe take 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.079 a break for a minute. Let us catch up. We're 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.240 still figuring things out. I mean, that's what's going on 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.280 inside of black holes. It's just you know where the 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.560 universe goes to take a nap. Oh yeah, it's just 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.720 like a Google where they have nap pods. This is 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.200 where like particles can go to take a break. Finally, 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.400 like these folk, time has been going for billions of 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.639 years without stopping. Who take a load off? You think 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.679 the universe needs a vacation or something. You think the 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.360 universe is tired. It seems to be pretty active and 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.560 picking up on energy with its expansion. That's true. The 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.919 universe does seem relentless, and so there's a lot going 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.240 on in the universe, and sometimes we wonder how does 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:21.880 all this energy go out into the universe? That's right, 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.360 because all the stuff around us contains an incredible amount 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.400 of energy. All the matter around you are these tiny 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.519 little systems bound together with incredibly strong forces, which, if 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.560 manipulated in just the right way, can release them in 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.880 incredible bursts of energy. Yeah, and somehow, throughout the years, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:41.960 humans have figured out how to sort of take advantage 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.000 of this idea of releasing the energy that stored inside 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.280 of the bonds of the things that make up the universe, 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.640 and sometimes for good reasons, and sometimes for not so 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.040 great reasons. That's right. And you can see around you 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.880 in the night sky, for example, fusion reactions happening that 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.760 last millions and billions of years. At the heart of stars, 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.440 of course, is a kind of a nuclear reactor. Down 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.120 here on Earth. We don't see that as often, thankfully, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.800 but we've been able to sort of engineer similar stuff 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.040 happening so we can take advantage of it and empower 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.640 our air conditioners. Yeah, anytime that you hear a pop 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.200 out in your daily life, it's probably some sort of 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.120 chemical bond breaking up and releasing energy out into the world. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.480 Does that happen to you a lot? You just like 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.280 turn around and hear something pop. Isn't that what happens 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.320 every time you hear a car running? I have an 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.560 electric car now, so it's totally silent. Oh interesting. Now 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.320 you can sneak up on people. That's exactly why I 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.120 got it. I can sneak up on them and like 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.200 steal a look of their ice cream code or something. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.960 Oh my god, that is a little disturbing. You're like 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.440 the ice cream bandit, the electric ice cream bandit. I've 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.599 never actually done that, but now every time I'm gonna 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.480 get in my car, I'm going to think about maybe 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.839 doing that. But yeah, it's sort of an interesting idea 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.559 to think about the humans sort of harnessing this power 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.080 of this ability to kind of really the energy inside 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.880 of everyday matter, right. I guess we started it with fire. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.200 Fire maybe was the first sort of maybe you know, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.400 chemical energy causing reaction that we came up with. Yeah. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.760 I think about it as if matter is like a 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.680 bunch of tiny little springs bound together, and if you 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.719 find just the right way to release those springs, you 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.200 can capture all that energy and use it for something else. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.560 And exactly, fire is just that there are chemical bonds 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.599 stored within the carbon and the other elements within wood, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.240 for example, and heat will release them in this chain reaction. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.640 That's the magic, where some energy is released and then 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.599 it causes the neighbors to release their energy, which causes 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.240 the neighbors to release their energy. And that's the magic, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.240 because you don't want to release the energy of just 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.159 like one atom. Yeah, and so we figured out fire, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.000 and then eventually humans invented I guess it explosives and 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.080 gasoline and engines and and so we're pretty good, it 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.640 seems at kind of releasing that energy, at least the 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.600 chemical kind. Yeah, we are. And all these things so 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.040 far also happened in nature, right, Like fire is started 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.960 by lightning, and most of the chemical chain reactions that 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.360 humans have taken advantage of you can also see happening 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.159 in nature. Yeah, and eventually we were able to harness 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.119 the energy inside of atoms, right, I mean, we've figured 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:17.200 out fusion and fission for both reactors and bombs, that's right. 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:18.880 And I actually grew up in the town where the 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.880 bombs were invented, in Los Almos. So this, like capturing 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:24.880 the power at the heart of an atom, is sort 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.920 of essential theme to my childhood. There's a certain glow 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.560 about new Daniel. No, that's all the plutonium aid as 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.920 a child. I see that's different. All right, Well, um, yeah, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.680 we made fusion and fission bombs. And as you were saying, Daniel, 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.799 fusion happens a lot in nature. It happens naturally every 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.040 time there's a sun, and every time you look out 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.520 into the night sky, each one of those stars is 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.440 a fusion reactors. There's basically an ongoing fusion bomb at 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.520 each one of those pinpoints in the sky. That's right. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.600 It's awesome because it's a fusion bomb into continuous explosion 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.159 that's also held in place by gravity. So it's like 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.240 a stable reaction, which you know we've discovered is not 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.520 that easy to engineer, but the universe has done it. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.880 It's amazing to me that stars exist and that they 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.080 last for so long. Yeah, definitely, this night sky would 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.560 be a lot less prettier without fusion and stars in it. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.480 I mean, what would Van Go have painted in Starry Night, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.480 the Blackie Blackie Nights? Yeah? Yeah, So the stars are fusion, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.560 and so we know that happens out in nature a lot. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.920 But the fission is different than fusion, right, it's sort 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.680 of the opposite of fusion, that's right. Fusion is when 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:33.120 you squeeze together light nuclei to make heavier ones, like 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.800 squeeze hydrogen together to make helium. But fission is when 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.360 you start with something which is already big and heavy, 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.800 like uranium or plutonium, and your crack it into smaller nuclei, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.040 which also releases energy. Right, And so fission is the 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.360 one that I think maybe most people associate with nuclear 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.880 power right here on Earth, that that humans have been 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.400 able to engineer. Right. I think most nuclear power plants 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.800 and the nuclear bombs that we've made, and the people 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:01.960 were about our fission, right, that's right. All of the 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.360 nuclear power plants are fission. We're working on fusion plants, 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.320 but nobody's really made that work yet. Our nuclear weapons, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.040 and initially we're fission because it's simpler and easier to 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.080 get to work, but then more recently they are fusion 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.400 powered because there's much more destructive. Actually, some of our 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.880 nuclear weapons are fission bombs that are used just to 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.640 trigger a fusion reaction. So they're like fission and fusion. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.960 It's a fusion of fission and it's insane. It's like, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.960 how do you light a fusion bomb. You need a 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.680 fission bomb just to get it going, just give it 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.240 a little extra fuss. But yeah, I guess there's sort 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.000 of this weird thing that you know, we can't quite 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.439 make fusion power happen here on Earth, but it hadn't 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.199 happening all over the universe. And but then we can 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.520 make fission bombs and fission reactors here on Earth. We've 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.320 gone pretty good at engineering those, but maybe don't quite 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.400 see them out there in the universe as much. Yeah, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.040 fission reactors take really special conditions which you don't find 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.520 out there in the universe. And it makes me wonder 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.880 like our humans the only ones who are doing this 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.240 are these react actions only happening in our laboratories. And 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.040 so to be on the podcast, we'll be asking the 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:14.200 question can a fission reactor happen naturally? And Daniel, this 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.560 isn't one of those episodes where we actually like tell 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.000 people how to make afficient bomb or something dangerous out there. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.360 It's not another one of those episodes, is it. No, 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:29.160 this is not in the Supervillain how to series. Check 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.400 out our YouTube series on how to become a super 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.120 Villain using physics, So check out our lessons on our website. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.320 First adopt a white cat, second by a volcano. Shave 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.400 your head? What you got to shave your head? I'm out, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.280 nothing's worth that. Let's be honest. We're almost at the 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.480 battling stage anyway. Not me, I'm and I still have 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.360 a vibrant head of hair, not a single gray It's 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:55.360 all that plutonium. It's all that plutonium exactly. Yeah. But anyways, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.040 so I guess the question is, like, can we know 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.079 that a fusion reactor happens naturally nature? It's on every 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:02.840 at the center of every star. But the question is 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.880 does a fission reactor happen naturally in the universe? Like, 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.360 can you have a fission star even out there in space? Yeah, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.720 we actually did a whole episode about can you have 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.400 stars that are run by fishing? That was a listener question, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.079 which is super awesome, and we decided it might be possible, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.640 but it was very unlikely to arrange the circumstances necessary. 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.400 And what we'll discover in today's episode is that fission 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.200 is delicate and you have to have just the right 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.720 conditions arranged in just the right way at just the 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.400 right time to make it happen, or you need clever 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.040 human engineers. Well, it seems kind of weird to me, right, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.440 because it seems generally that it's easier to break things 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.440 than it is to put them back together. So it's 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.240 kind of weird to think that fission is sort of 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.079 like rarer or harder to achieve. Yeah, that's true. All 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.200 though the products that you need for fission, the heavy stuff, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.440 are generally more rare than the products you need for fusion, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.439 which is the light stuff. Like, remember, the universe still 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.760 mostly hydrogen. We've been working at it for fourteen billion 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.440 years and still most of the stuff in the universe 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.439 is just what it started as, which is hydrogen. All right, Well, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.680 as usual, we were wondering how many people out there 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.560 have thought about this question and knew whether nuclear fission 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.280 reactors can happen in nature. So Daniel went out there 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.280 into the Internet to ask people this question. So thank 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.480 you denizens of the Internet for answering these questions. And 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.040 if you are a denizen of the Internet and have 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.120 not yet answered our questions, we want to hear your voice, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.320 especially if you have a super awesome, unusual, weird voice 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.679 that people would like to listen to. But even if 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.600 you don't and you like answering random questions, shoot us 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.640 a note to questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.720 Here's what people had to say. I don't think nuclear 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.000 fission can occur naturally because you always hear about how 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.800 lighter elements, for like fuse to form heavier elements, and 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.000 that's how all the heavier elements in the universe have 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.120 been formed. But you never hear anything about the opposite 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:59.400 reverse and like there's no splitting, there's no creation of 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.280 more sort of hydrogen that you hear of. My initial 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.800 response was, yes, nuclear fission occurs in nature naturally, and 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.160 it was just a trick from nature that we've copied. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.160 But on the other hand, I don't see nuclear bombs 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.680 spontaneously going off in nature underground all the time, so 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.400 maybe not. But I can also imagine that in high 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:28.440 energy occurrences like a Supernovy or other I energy occurrences, 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:37.360 stuff gets bombarded with neutrons and adams split. So I 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.320 still have to go with yes, but I'm not totally certain. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.920 I would like to think so, but I think most 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.240 nuclear fission that I know about is something man made, 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:53.360 so maybe well, since we full split atoms in duicular, reactors. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.560 Um it sounds like gonna be a bit scary if 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.600 it happened anywhere on Earth naturally. Yes, I believe it can. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.160 I think there's an example of it having happened to 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:11.440 something billion years ago in continental Africa somewhere. I don't 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.560 know of any other examples, but I believe it can 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:19.080 happen naturally. Quite sure that the strong forces which I'm 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.760 pretty sure keeps those nuclear together, some electrom and egg 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.719 forces keeping it together, that they would take a lot 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.280 to oppose that. So I'm thinking maybe in some sort 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:34.839 of extreme gravity situation. But but still I still think 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.520 it's nuclear too small and the strong forces too strong 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.960 too to have some sort of nuclear fission occur naturally. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.960 I think it's naturally. I don't know how to explain it, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.400 and I don't know how. I do not know if 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:52.880 nuclear fission occurs naturally, but I assume it does because 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.720 the vast quantities of different elements the universe has so 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:05.120 sure what's happened before in the universe all right on 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.280 the whole, it seems like most people thought that yes, 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.760 the answer was yes, that you can have fission out 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.360 there in nature happened naturally. Yeah, And I think this 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.080 is motivated by the general feeling that like, wow, it's 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.719 a big universe, and everything you imagine might happen is 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.960 probably out there happening somewhere. They've heard our podcast so 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.120 much that now they just assume that anything that sounds 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.200 crazy is happening somewhere, at least in one spot in 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.200 this infinite universe. And it's a good motivation, you know. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.280 After physicists take advantage of that all the time. They 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.400 can't like do experiments like what happens when two neutron 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.360 stars collide. You can't build a neutron star collider. So 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.120 you just look out in the universe and say, hey, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.040 let's watch and see if we spotted happening, and then 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.040 we can do our experiment effectively. Yeah, so I guess them, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.600 why do you Why do we even need to hire you, Daniel? 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.320 Somebody's got to eat the plutonium man. Yeah, somebody's gonna 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.760 make the banana jokes. All right. So let's talk about 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.080 this question of whether or not nuclear fish in reactors 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.000 can happen naturally out there in the universe. And so, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.840 first of all, I guess let's step through it in 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.160 more detail. What is nuclear fission. So fission is when 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:15.480 you break up heavy nuclei into smaller atoms. So everything 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.040 above iron, everything that's heavier than iron, that has more 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.040 protons in the nucleus than iron, if you're cracking in half, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.720 then you release energy and you make two smaller nuclei, right, 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:29.960 Because I guess all matter, all the stuff we're made 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.240 out of, is made out of atoms, and an atom 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.200 is in nucleus with electrons flying around it, and so 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.240 the only difference between like uranium and carbon is just 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.440 how much stuff is in the nucleus, right, which is 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.760 just protons and neutrons exactly. And the thing that defines 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.600 an element is the number of protons in itsel If 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.520 you add a proton, you change the charge because protons 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.280 are charged, and then you need another electron, and that 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.560 changes the fundamental chemical reactions that it can be involved in. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.080 Is that changes sort of the identity of it. And 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.800 you can add neutrons if you like. New strons are neutrals, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.880 so they don't take change to charge and don't require 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.680 another electron, but it does give you another isotope. And 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.720 as you add protons and neutrons, things get heavy, and 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.440 there are some arrangements that are stable, they can hang 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.560 out basically forever. But there are lots of these arrangements 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.440 which are not stable, which will eventually just sort of 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.960 break up on their own. We had a whole fun 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.200 podcast about really heavy elements and which ones are stable 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.200 and which ones are not stable, which you can check 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.480 out if you're interested in the nuclear physics of it. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.040 So I guess that you're saying the identity of atoms 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.040 has all everything to do with the protons in it. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.760 So like hydrogen just has one proton in the middle, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:40.040 but uranium has like two five protons, typically hundreds of 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.120 protons in the nucleus. Uranium has ninety two protons in it, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.560 but it occurs in nature in a couple of different isotopes. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.160 Uranium two thirty five or two thirty five refers to 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.920 the number of protons and neutrons together, So if you 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.920 do some quick math, you can discover uranium two thirty 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.840 five has nine two protons and a hundred and forty 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:06.080 three neutrons stuffed into it. And it's also uranium two 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.119 thirty eight, which comes with three more neutrons, and so 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.720 most of the uranium out there is you two thirty eight, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.760 which is much more stable. You two thirty five is 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.040 more rare and much more useful actually for fission, right, right, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.120 And but you know they're not as good as you two. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.520 I think they've been working on it for a lot 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.239 longer though, still waiting to have that breakthrough album. There 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.399 are a lot more heavy metal. Maybe there are no 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.159 hit wonder now I'm just kidding, I think. I think 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.000 what you're saying is that, you know, uranium has ninety 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.600 two protons and i'm a whole bunch of neutrons, and 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.399 it's sort of like legos, right, Like you can just 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.160 add these building blocks and you get different atoms, which 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.199 means at some point you could potentially break them apart 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.160 to get two of the lighter elements, right, yeah, exactly, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.159 You break up that nucleus, and then you share those protons, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.840 those n protons between the products, and so you get 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.919 things made out of smaller numbers of protons. Yeah, And 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.679 so that's a fission action. That's nuclear fission, that's right. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.680 And nuclear fission mostly we do it with uranium two 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.880 thirty five and sometimes with plutonium two thirty nine, where 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.240 again the number is the total number of protons and 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.080 neutrons together, and so in most nuclear reactors that generate power, 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.720 you have either uranium two thirty five or plutonium two 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.600 thirty nine, all right, And so somehow breaking up the 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.560 inside of an atom, the nucleus of an atom into 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.920 smaller elements, somehow that crew releases a whole bunch of energy, right, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.440 which is kind of weird to think about if you 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.439 think about it, right, like, why would breaking something release energy? Yeah, Well, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.280 because there's energy stored in there. You know, you can 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.399 imagine if you like mechanical analogies, you can imagine like 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.440 that they're stored in there with a bunch of springs 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.879 that are really tautly wound together, and when you break it, 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.600 what happens is that the springs release and they shoot 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.000 the parts out, and there's parts are now moving really 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.720 really fast. So the energy that was stored in that 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.239 spring has now been transformed into the motion of the 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.680 particles that are flying out. And that's essentially it's happening here, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.439 except instead of having like literal springs, you have gluons, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.640 the carriers of the strong force that are tying these 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.439 things together. There's a lot of energy in those bonds, 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.600 and when you break it up, that energy is released 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.040 and the particles come out moving really quickly. I guess 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.640 maybe it might help if we maybe talked a little 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.480 bit about what's actually going on. Like if I break 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.560 a banana and two or if I break my cell 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.320 phone or something like, I don't get a lot of 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.439 energy getting released, right, Like, things are breaking and bonds 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.560 are breaking, but there's not a lot of like where 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.760 does that energy come from? Actually, yeah, well, if you 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.679 do break a banana and half or you break your 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.280 cell phone and half, you are breaking bonds. Those are 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.359 chemical bonds, right, Those are bonds between atoms, and the 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.880 atoms are not changing. You might be taking a molecule 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.480 and breaking into its atoms, or you might be just 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.840 sort of like cracking a crystal a long you know, 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.679 a part of its lattice, and so their bonds between 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.000 molecules that are being released. But you don't notice any 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.680 energy being released there because the energy is really really small. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.520 But when you break a nucleus in half, then the 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.879 energy released is huge and the and it's much bigger. 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.440 It's because the strong forces involved in the strong force 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.679 as well, it's really strong and so it has a 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.760 lot of energy stored inside these atoms. It's much stronger 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.840 than the electromagnetic force, which is one that's holding your 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.280 banana or your cell phone together. I guess it's kind 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.119 of like you say that, like there's a spring holding 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.359 these these nuclear particles together, and so suddenly if you 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.240 like detach those springs, they're gonna spring out, right, all 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.640 that sort of stretched energy has to go somewhere. Yeah, 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.160 it's sort of like a jack in the box, right, 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:29.920 and you open the top and boom, everything pops out. 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:31.640 Or it's like you know, one of those cans full 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.879 of snakes, so you open it up and like bang, 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.160 everything flies out. And and that's exactly what happens here. 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.399 You crack open the nucleus it was held together sort 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.120 of delicately. You crack it open and everything flies out 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:44.600 with a bunch of energy. But it's sort of like 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.640 a reverse jack in the box, right, because the springs 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.240 are pulling stuff together, not sort of being compressed and 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.119 wanting to explode. Yeah, exactly here in this case, the 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.720 bonds are holding them together, so they're sort of trapped 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.439 in a bound state where the bonds you know, have 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.280