1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:01,360 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 2: Simon was talking about, you know, the era we grew 3 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 2: up in, and he just he looked at me and 4 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: he said, we never knew what to make of you, 5 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: and that kind of, you know, sort of summed us up. 6 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: We weren't really influenced by a scene as such, because 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: there was none, so we were kind of outlies. No 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: one really knew where we fit in and or died 9 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: we to be honest. 10 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Taking a Walk podcast 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: hosted by Buzz Night. Today, Buzz is thrilled to be 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: joined by two legendary musicians, Roland Orzebelle and Kurt Smith 13 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: from the iconic band Tears for Fears. These two childhood 14 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: friends from Bath, England have been making music together for 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: over forty years, crafting some of the most memorable songs 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: of the eighties. From their early days in the new 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: wave scene to their massive global success with hits like 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: Everybody Wants to Rule the World and Shout, Tears for 19 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: Fears has left an indelible mark on pop music. After 20 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: a period apart in the nineteen nineties, Roland and Kurt 21 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: reunited in two thousand and have continued to create music together, 22 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: including the Tipping Point released in twenty twenty two, and 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: they have two new projects to discuss, their new album, 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: Songs for a Nervous Planet and their concert film called 25 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: Tears for Fears Live a Tipping Point Film. Here's buzz 26 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: night with Tears for Fears on Taking a Walk. 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: Well, Roland and Kurt, thanks for being on the Taking 28 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: a Walk podcast. It's really an honor to talk to 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 3: you big fans for a long time. Thank you so much, 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 3: and congratulations. You got some great things going on. Songs 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: for a Nervous Planet, which is fantastic, four new tracks 32 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: which we'll talk about, and Tears for Fears Live a 33 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: Tipping Point film as well, So congrats on that. What's 34 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: become of you guys, You've become so ambitious. 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 4: We always were. I agree, I'm teasing. It's a blessing 36 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 4: and a curse. And I think that you know, the 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 4: ambition we showed when we were kids, when we were young, 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 4: hampered us in the way that we couldn't match our 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 4: idols in any way. So all the records we listened to, 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 4: we were too inexperienced and too young to be able 41 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 4: to copy that stuff. But in the meantime, in the 42 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 4: process we came up with something individually individual, so should 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 4: I say, And that initially was that it is for 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 4: fierce sound. 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 3: You've had so many there's so many influences that are 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: part of the sound. What role did the Beatles play 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: in that influence? They had to have played some. 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: Raw, I would say early on, not that much. I mean, 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't really until later. No, I think our earliest influences. 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we started myself and Roland. When 51 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: we first started playing, it's like a heavy metal band, 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: you know, so we were listening to Blois, to Cult 53 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: and Black Sabbath and people like that. Then we became 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: a sort of power pop band that was into the 55 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: sort of mod scene. When the Specialism of Madness came along, 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: and then when we kind of got tired of that band. 57 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: It was a time when their recordings were starting to 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: get a lot deeper. You know, technology was coming along, 59 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: so the first drum machine came along, Synthesizers were far 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: more common, and we were listening to people like Talking 61 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: Heads and Peter Gabriel and David Bowie and and I 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: think those were bigger influences on us when we started. 63 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: I think it was in retrospect that we went back 64 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: to the Beatles because we were just just that little 65 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: bit too young when in their heyday. 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 4: I will I will say this though. I remember when 67 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 4: I was a teenager and we had a but the 68 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 4: first band we had, and I remember trying to learn 69 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: a Blue Oyster Cull song on the guitar, and our 70 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 4: mutual friend Paul Noble used to bombard me with like 71 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 4: albums from you know, Uriah Heap and Budgy and things 72 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 4: like that. But he also had a vinyl copy of 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 4: Sergeant Pepper's and to be honest with you, I just 74 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 4: thought it was way superior than the rest of the 75 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 4: stuff we were listening to. So although it didn't influence 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: me at the time, it definitely stayed with me. 77 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: I actually remember playing in my bedroom the vinyl white album. 78 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 4: Wow, Yeah there you go. 79 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: So, I mean, I remember listening to them, but I 80 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: don't think they were that big an influence on what 81 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: we did. May have been subconscious, but certainly not the time. 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: I don't think that. Now. 83 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: Roland, when you first met Kurk, did you think he 84 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: was a bit of a ruffian? 85 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 4: I did. Again, got to go back to our mutual 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 4: friend Paul Noble and I was actually living outside of 87 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 4: Bath at the time, in a town called Kansham, and 88 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 4: I stay with Paul Noble sometimes and one morning he said, 89 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 4: let's well, let's go across and meet my other friend 90 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 4: who lives in the Snowhill Flats in Bath. So it's 91 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 4: a council blocks, but they're made out of bath stone, 92 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: so they well, they still look like cancel blocks, but 93 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 4: they're a little they're a little bit prettier. And so 94 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 4: we went up the stairs and knocked on the door 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 4: of the flat and eventually Kirk came to the door, 96 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 4: but he wasn't allowed out because he pushed someone down 97 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 4: the stairs. Now this sounds very violent. It may have 98 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 4: been a small mis demeanor. We don't know. But I 99 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 4: at the time was, you know, a very good student, 100 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 4: and I was very concerned about getting good results and 101 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 4: hanging out with the right people. And I honestly thought 102 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 4: that this guy was a Worfian. 103 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: Kert, How do you feel thinking about that now? 104 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't really think about 105 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 2: it that much. I gotta say, to be honest, all 106 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: those things for me when I was dead age and 107 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: I used to get in trouble a lot was just 108 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: attention seeking, you know, and then music came along and 109 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: replaced it as a way to get attention. And then 110 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: of course, you know, you can zoom on a bunch 111 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: of years and be careful what you wish for too 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 2: much attention, Yeah, and then you go, oh, I've got 113 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: to disappear in there. So I think it was, you know, 114 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: I mean, the trouble I got in wasn't exactly major. 115 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: I mean I used to get in fights, yes, and 116 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: steal things, but all for attention because I was I 117 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: actually before I met Roland earlier. In yes, I probably 118 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: stopped by how I met Round. I also was always 119 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: like kind of top of my class at school, certainly 120 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: all the way through junior school in the beginning of 121 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: senior school. But I didn't get me the attention I wanted, 122 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: even though I was being really good. So then I 123 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: went the other way and decided to be as bad 124 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: as I could to see if that got me the attention. 125 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: And it actually did get me attention, just not particularly 126 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: the right kind of attention. 127 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: You mentioned Urya Heap earlier, and you ya, Heap I 128 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: think is just celebrated there. 129 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 4: I don't know. 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: Fifty fourth year as a band, Mick Bach is still 131 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: out and about and I understand they're bigger than ever 132 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: in certain parts of Europe. I think Australia they're They're 133 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: pretty massive. When you look back at a band like 134 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: that and their legacy and the fact that they're still 135 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: out cranking, what do you guys think of that? 136 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 4: Well, there's hope for us yet, you know. I mean, well, 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: I don't know what it's like to be a member 138 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 4: of your ayah heap. We can only guess. But I 139 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 4: will say this that I find it a lot more 140 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 4: comfortable being an older musician than I did when I 141 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 4: started as a young with The Snapper. I think that 142 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 4: for both of us, the experience we've had, the lives 143 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 4: that we have lived, make it far easier for us 144 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 4: to talk about what we're doing and what we're up to, 145 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 4: what we're feeling. And I think again, a little bit 146 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 4: of the problem we had when we began was we 147 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 4: had a theory about how to live, but we didn't 148 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 4: have the experience to back it up. 149 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 2: I mean, we had the concept of a plane, We 150 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: had the concept. 151 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 3: And now, yeah, you guys can finish each other's sentences, 152 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: which is pretty amazing. Did you stay in close touch 153 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: during those what seventeen years that you were apart as 154 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: a band. 155 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, well we weren't apart. I mean, this is the 156 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 4: Missnoma or you know, the misunderstanding. We never stopped playing 157 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 4: live to begin with. I mean we were a little 158 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 4: bit disappointed, well to say the least, with the success 159 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 4: of Everybody Loves a Happy Ending. But roughly at the 160 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 4: same time the song mad World was covered by Michael 161 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 4: Andrews and Gary Jules and went to number one in England. 162 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 4: So on one hand again it was this you know, 163 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: huge split between our past music and what we were trying 164 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 4: to do in the present. Our past music we were 165 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 4: becoming more and more legendary, and we found that out 166 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 4: we were playing live. We always played live. I kept 167 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 4: the house in la We would come across for the summer. 168 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 4: I'd say to Kurt, why don't we go and play 169 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 4: a few shows up on the West coast, only about 170 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 4: eight and it was all for fun, and it was 171 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 4: also for a little bit of pocket money. Meanwhile, we 172 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: started to get a reputation for playing live, and we 173 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 4: started to play festivals as well, and that you have 174 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 4: a mixed range of ages, and we also found that 175 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 4: a lot of the audience knew the earlier stuff. So 176 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 4: it was a very very different experience for us. And 177 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 4: we were although we were kind of didn't look like 178 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 4: we were doing anything, we were actually gaining momentum. There 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: was a form, there was some kind of ground swell 180 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 4: going on that was slowly propelling us during those times. 181 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: And when you look at the meaning of some of 182 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 3: the songs when you first created the songs, when you 183 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: first came out as a band, and you think of 184 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: the meaning of those songs and how it impacts people, Now, 185 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: how does that strike you that maybe, you know, when 186 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: you just you know, everyone wants to rule the world 187 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 3: as an example, you know, is in today's world feels 188 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: more impactful than ever, How does that make you, guys feel? 189 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: And do you agree? 190 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's definitely true. I mean, you know, 191 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: the more things change, the more they stay the same. 192 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: There's definitely a truth to that. So I think that 193 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: if you, you know, talk about the kind of well, 194 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: oh you have the kind of subject matter that we have, 195 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: it tends to transcend eras and a case in point, 196 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: as Ronan was mentioned, we do festivals and we played 197 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: a festival called bonn a roue, and they're primarily sort 198 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: of eighteen to probably mid twenty, mid to late twenties. 199 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: That's that's the audience. That's the audience range. There really 200 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 2: are not that many older people there, and so we 201 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: weren't expecting that much, you know, because we were sort 202 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: of the elder statesmen that were playing on the bill, 203 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: and I was looking at the audience while we were playing, 204 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: and pretty much most of the front sort of ten 205 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: rows were singing every lyric but every lyric to songs 206 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: from the Hurting, which was not big in America. I mean, 207 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't a big hit in America. It was sort 208 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: of well received in New York and LA and maybe 209 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: Boston because of certain radio stations, but not certainly not 210 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: in Middle America. And then you realize they relate to 211 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: that album because they are the age we were when 212 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 2: we made that album. So those feelings are eternal, I 213 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 2: mean in the sense that each generation goes through them. 214 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 2: They go through their teen years, they go through their 215 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: early twenties trying to discover themselves, they go through their 216 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: hyper political era where they think that they know more 217 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: than everyone else, and so these songs still resonate with 218 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: all those age groups. 219 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: I absolutely love that. I love what you've done with 220 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: this album, the hybrid nature with awesome live performance, which 221 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: feels to me that it's all live, that nothing's been 222 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: touched up to my ears. And then you've got the 223 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 3: four new tracks. Can you talk about the new tracks 224 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 3: and the creation and that collaboration and has anything in 225 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: your guys process changed with that collaboration for those new songs. 226 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: Well, we had. First of all, we had a lot 227 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 4: of songs that could have been on the tipping point, 228 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 4: so there was a backlog. It would have been very 229 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 4: easy to make another album. The problem with that would 230 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 4: have been, well, what's the narrative and are people ready 231 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 4: for another Fears album? Because you know, there was a 232 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 4: seventeen year gap for us before the tipping point, and 233 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 4: I actually think that that's one of the reasons why 234 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 4: it got so much attention. But we we wanted to 235 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 4: put out a live album. Inevitably, the record company wanted 236 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 4: an extra track, two extra tracks. Possibly. What we didn't 237 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 4: want to do was promote a live album and only 238 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 4: talk about the past. We were also on a roll 239 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: following the tipping point. We were so confident about our 240 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 4: ability in the studio to come up with new stuff, 241 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 4: making sound good, make the production beautiful, and so when 242 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 4: it came it was actually right at the beginning of 243 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 4: this year we were going to record maybe one or 244 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: two songs, but getting together with Kurt and Charton in 245 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 4: Charlton's studio where we recorded the Tipping Point and everybody 246 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: loved to have the ending. The tunes started coming quickly 247 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 4: and we'd come in one and it wasn't quite right. 248 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 4: We'd come in the next day and we'd have different 249 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 4: bits and it was all very, very easy. And the 250 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 4: other thing that had changed radically was the Tipping Point. 251 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 4: There is a very sad album. It was done through 252 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 4: quite a tragic time and also done with an extremely 253 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 4: difficult process for Kerk and me. Whereas the extra tracks, 254 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 4: the four extra tracks for songs sort of Nervous Planet 255 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 4: were a joy to record. They're not tragic. I've been 256 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 4: married now for yet again for more than four years, 257 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: and a couple of those songs are they love you know, 258 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 4: there's songs about my wife now, so it's a very 259 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: very different atmosphere. 260 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're beautiful songs. And then say goodbye to mom 261 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: and Dad. 262 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 4: I mean, what. 263 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: A Touching, you know, beautiful beautiful song and Astronaut as well, 264 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: and Emily said, and just really wonderful music. How when 265 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: you are performing those songs now live, how how are 266 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: they being received? 267 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: Well, we've just done We've only played them three times live. Now, 268 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: we've just done three shows in Vegas, so it's hard 269 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: to tell. Having said that, they were received incredibly well 270 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: for those three shows, and pretty much most of the 271 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: audience knew them. But my guess is, you know, because 272 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: we're doing three shows in Vegas, these are hardcore fans. 273 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: I mean they're flying in from places all over the 274 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 2: world to come see us play because it's the only 275 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: shows were playing this year, so they knew all the 276 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: new songs. And but you know, you have a feeling 277 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: when you go play them live how they fit in 278 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: and how well they're gonna be received, because you get 279 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: to the point where you realize that if you think 280 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: they fit in well, you think they're good, that's going 281 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: to translate to an audience. I think that we've got 282 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: at the stage of our careers now where we have 283 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 2: far more confidence in the knowledge that if we think 284 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: something's good, our audience is going to think it's good. 285 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 2: You know, we know our audience, I believe, and. 286 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: I do want to highlight you've got twenty twenty five 287 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: dates that'll be out there in Vegas at the Fontom Blue. 288 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 4: Yes, I love saying that Funtom Blue. 289 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they just say Quantum Blue. 290 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 4: Well, let's say Vansom Blue. I do you know it 291 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 4: depends that that's only room service. I'm talking about that. 292 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: So I want to talk about Malcolm Gladwell and what 293 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 3: he means to you, to you chaps obviously, because The 294 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 3: Tipping Point is, you know, an incredibly important book, and 295 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: Outliers as well. And let's go back to Outliers for 296 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 3: a second, because I think I believe you guys are 297 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: an example of Outliers. You've played I'm sure God knows 298 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 3: more than ten thousand hours together, and that represents how 299 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: your sound is so amazing, you know these days. But 300 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: can you talk about what Malcolm's work means and do 301 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 3: you guys know him? 302 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 4: To be honest with you, we both read a lot 303 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: of books, but those are two we have not read it. 304 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 4: I was aware many moons ago of the title The 305 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: Tipping Point, but I think you know I used it 306 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 4: sort of personally for me and it was a tipping 307 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 4: point for me, and it was a turning point, and 308 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 4: it was also a huge turning point for Kurt and 309 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 4: I when we made that album. 310 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the tipping point had two 311 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 2: different meanings to the extent that, you know, it had 312 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 2: one meaning for the song, and it had one meaning 313 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: for an album title, which had a far greater and 314 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: a bigger, a bigger, deeper meaning. As to your point 315 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: about outliers, yeah, I mean, I think that interestingly. You know, 316 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: obviously you read a lot about outliers when you go 317 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: through a political season, you know, because you get all 318 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: these sort of polls of everything in the outliers are 319 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: the ones that kind of are just a little strange, 320 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 2: and we don't quite know if that means anything or 321 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything. And I think and I think that 322 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: pretty much sums us up. You know, we're kind of 323 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: somewhere on the outside, you know. And it was interesting 324 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: that I and I mentioned this to Roland recently and 325 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: I'd gone out to dinner in La My wife used 326 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 2: to work for John Taylor from Duran, Duran's ex, John 327 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 2: Taylor's wife, and we went out to dinner with John, 328 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 2: his wife and Simon Lebon, and Simon was talking about, 329 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: you know, the era we grew up in, and he 330 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 2: just he looked at me and he said, we never 331 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: knew what to make of you. You and that kind 332 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: of you know, sort of summed us up really because 333 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: we were we weren't in the scene. We weren't from Manchester, London, Birmingham, 334 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: any major scene. We were from this little town Bath 335 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 2: That's where we kind of grew where I was born, 336 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: where we grew up, where we started playing music. We 337 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: weren't really influenced by a scene as such, because there 338 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: was none, so we were kind of outlies. No one 339 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: really knew where we fit in, and nor did we 340 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: to be honest. But I think that's in the long 341 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: run a good thing because we tend to transcend those 342 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 2: trends that tend to you know, be cyclical or move on, 343 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 2: you know, they move on to something new. We've just 344 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 2: to managed to continue this sort of even level of 345 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: success throughout the years. That has enabled us to keep 346 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: playing and keep recording also and also helped us retain 347 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: a private life, which is incredibly important. You know, Wh're 348 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: not people that walk down the street and get ready, 349 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: is that much We're just not and we've never been 350 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: those people. 351 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a 352 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taken a Walk Podcast. 353 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: How difficult, though, was it being so young when success 354 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: first came into your lives? 355 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, very very difficult. Well it was, yeah, it was, 356 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: But to be honest with you, our first album, The Hurting, 357 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 4: was difficult. It shouldn't have been, but for some reason 358 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: it was. I mean when we went in to record, well, 359 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 4: first of all, we had a fake start with The Hurting. 360 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 4: We tried to record it with a producer called Mike Howlett, 361 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 4: who was famous for producing orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark 362 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 4: and other synthesizer duo from the time, and we had 363 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 4: our own way of doing things. We were actually using 364 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: a lot of live drums, which was not de rigueur 365 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 4: at all because you had the success of Human League 366 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 4: and the Dare and Dare with them with the lind 367 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 4: drum machine. So Mike tried to actually make us sound 368 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 4: a bit more like that, and that didn't go very 369 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 4: down very well with myself and Kurt. So the next 370 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 4: person we used was a producer called Chris Hughes, and 371 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 4: we had a meeting with him, and it all went 372 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 4: very very well, and we ended up in a recording 373 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 4: studio to record a song called Mad World, and it 374 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 4: was just great fun. And Chris's production technique was additive, 375 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 4: so he didn't change anything other than he would use 376 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 4: a part and he would take a simple part and 377 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 4: put it on piano. He would take another simple part 378 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 4: and put it on brass, you know. So it was 379 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 4: all a wonderful experience for Kurt and me. That's why 380 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: we went in to the studio with him to record 381 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 4: The Hurting. But the problem with that is that I 382 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 4: don't know whether it was us or whether it was 383 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 4: the producer and engineer, but we just started to analyze 384 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 4: virtually every aspect of that album, the high hatted part, 385 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: the simple part. We would all four of us have 386 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 4: a cute discuss things for hours. 387 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: There was far far more talking and arguing than there 388 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: was doing exactly. 389 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 4: So what happened with that, I mean, you know, they 390 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 4: were tough times that we were working late. Well, we 391 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 4: were working at some point all the way through the 392 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 4: night that was at Air Studios, and we would see 393 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: Paul McCartney walk in fresh as a daisy at about 394 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 4: nine o'clock in the morning. It already got his kids up, 395 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 4: done the school run, got on the train, and it 396 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: was just so by the time, by the time we 397 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 4: were on top of the pops and we had a 398 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 4: top five hit with Mad World, we were just kind 399 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 4: of a little bit sick of it all, you know, 400 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 4: that's the problem. And so the difficulty was really in 401 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: the studio, and the difficulty came from us being inexperienced, 402 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 4: and it wasn't until our mid to late twenties when 403 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 4: we took over. We took the reins and said, okay, 404 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 4: that's enough, we are now going to produce these albums, 405 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 4: which resulted in the Seat of Love. 406 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think you know, during the hurting 407 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: it was necessarily anyone's fault. It was just the situation 408 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: we were dealing with Chris and Ross, who were both 409 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: Chris especially quite intellectual, and we were budding intellects at 410 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 2: that point in time, and we're very sure of ourselves. 411 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 2: So the arguments were really there were pissing matches, that's 412 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: all they were. It was just, you know, who could 413 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: outwit someone else or you know, prove their point more 414 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: than someone else. And it was all about the argument 415 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: and the discussion than the actual recording, and we'd have 416 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: to have all of that sort of sorted out before 417 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 2: someone won. And it was a question of winning, and 418 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: it was basically myself and Roland versus Chris and Ross 419 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 2: and then the record company Dave Baits and our guy 420 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: would come in and blow everything up and so then 421 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: we'd have to sort of, you know, start all over again. 422 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: It was just a very difficult time emotionally, so uh, 423 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: you know, especially to put people. You know, if I 424 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: look back at it now and if I look, you know, 425 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: and my kids are older than now than we were, 426 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: then Rowland's the same, oh much older, yeah, much old, 427 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,239 Speaker 2: you know, and my kids, you know, I'm again thinking, well, 428 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 2: they're not particularly mature yet, you know. I mean, they 429 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 2: they're fantastic and wonderful, but they still got a lot 430 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: to learn. And I'm like, but we and we were 431 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 2: put in that situation, like you know, from my eldest 432 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: four years five years younger than my artist is now. 433 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: So it's you know, if I could think of how 434 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: my children would have dealt with that at the age 435 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: of twenty, I have no idea it probably would have. 436 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: There were needed a lot of therapy for that one. 437 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 3: You were probably too impacted by the mighty Python argument 438 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 3: clinic bit. You just felt like you had to do 439 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: your own version of it, you. 440 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: Know, it felt like that on certain days. 441 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you mentioned Mad World. I just recently discovered 442 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 3: this version by an artist named Sierra Hall. I don't 443 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 3: know if you've caught that version, but she's about thirty 444 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: four years old. She specializes as a sort of a 445 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 3: genre bending mandolin player. But it's such a beautiful version. 446 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: If you haven't heard it, definitely check it out. But 447 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 3: what are some of your favorite other versions of people 448 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 3: who have covered that song or any of your songs? 449 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 4: Well, Kurt will will answer you know that question, but 450 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 4: I will say, you know, the beautiful thing about Mad 451 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 4: World and the way that Michael Andern's and Gary Jeels 452 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 4: recorded it has allowed a lot of singers to record 453 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 4: it in that vein and it's just I mean, the 454 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 4: most crazy artists that you would never imagine in a 455 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 4: million years are going to do that song. Someone like that. 456 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 4: You probably didn't know of that Susan Boyle. She won 457 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 4: one of those X Factor contests. I remember it got 458 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 4: near the near the top in Britain and she was 459 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 4: singing semi classically and she's wonderful, and so she recorded 460 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 4: Mad World and I love that version, absolutely love that version. 461 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 4: Another surprise is a a young, really young artist called 462 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 4: Lily Allen who is the daughter of comedian Keep their Hand, 463 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 4: and she's she's got a little bit of a Kockney accent, 464 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 4: just a little bit, and she sings that so beautifully. 465 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, as far as recordings go, 466 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 2: certainly the Michael Andrews Gary Jeeles version is of Mad 467 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: World is so production wise far more in line with 468 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: the lyrical content. And the same goes for Lord's version 469 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: that she did for The Hunger Games of Everybody Wants 470 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: through all the World. So it's always interesting for us, 471 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: you know, for us is when people change them and 472 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: make them either a production wise more interesting or be 473 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: more in line with the actual lyrical content that we 474 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: find kind of more moving, I guess, you know. And 475 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: there have been I mean, there was one. I mean, 476 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: the guy from twenty one Pilot did it, but just 477 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: as an online thing covered Mad World, which was interesting. 478 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: You know. There's been a lot of artists have done 479 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 2: our songs over the years. Yeah, and then you get 480 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: into the samples as well, and people you know sampling 481 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 2: your music and from you know, The Weekend and Kanye 482 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: and Drake that have all sampled. Interestingly, all parts of 483 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: The Hurting. The first album wasn't that big? 484 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 3: Can you take us inside? What the creation of songs 485 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: from the Big Chair was like? What was that experience like? 486 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 4: Well that that there was a direct link the journey, 487 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 4: uninterrupted journey from finishing The Hurting to recording songs from 488 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 4: the Big Chair. There was no real break, maybe a month, 489 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 4: and it was Dave Bates, as Kurt mentioned, our A 490 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 4: and R man was very keen to follow up Our 491 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 4: success is that simple. Our success was his success. So 492 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 4: we'd had three top five singles from The Hurting, and 493 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 4: so at the time we were also trying to be 494 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 4: incredibly arty. We were going in with all kinds of 495 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 4: new keyboards and technologies and trying to mimic some of 496 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 4: the music that we loved. That ended up in this 497 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 4: sort of bizarre concoction of a song called the Way 498 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 4: You Are, And instead of that being a B side, 499 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 4: which maybe it should have been, that became the next 500 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 4: single because it was like, get out there, guys, put 501 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 4: out material, keep doing it. And at that point Kurt 502 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 4: and I, well, there was a success of it, really, 503 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 4: I mean, it didn't even break the top twenty, and 504 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 4: we'd had three top five hits before then. So it 505 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 4: was a question of like, well, are we doing something wrong. 506 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 1: You know? 507 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 4: And so we went directly from the Way You Are 508 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 4: into Mother's Talk. We tried a different producer and we 509 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 4: made Mother's Talk in a sense very similar to the 510 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 4: Way You Are. That didn't work either. Lo and behold 511 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 4: dat Bates said all right, let's get Chris used in again. 512 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 4: We're going to we're going to try a different way 513 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 4: of recording, and that's what happened. So this is by 514 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 4: this time, we're working in a recording studio in someone's 515 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 4: house in Bath called the house was called Forwards, So 516 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: we were all working in there, and this was really 517 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 4: Chris's first time, his first foray into Forwards, which is 518 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 4: where we would go on to record songs from the 519 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 4: Big Chair. And so what what Chris did was he 520 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 4: started putting guitars on it because there weren't any. He 521 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 4: started cutting up the arrangement so it was a little 522 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 4: bit shorter, and he started to heavy it up a 523 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 4: little bit, and I I mean, we went along with it, 524 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 4: but I was a little bit shocked by this sudden 525 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 4: lurch towards rock and roll, you know, and away from 526 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 4: the purity of electronica. That's what we were doing. Following that, 527 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 4: there was a month. I was given a month off, 528 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 4: so okay, go and go and write some more songs 529 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 4: for this album. We had some songs lying around again, 530 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 4: like a song like head over Heels, which we didn't 531 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 4: know what to do with rt people that we were, 532 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 4: and I came up with the initial rendition of Shout, 533 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 4: the initial rendition of Everybody Wants to Rule the World, 534 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 4: and a song which sounded like Robert Wyatt, the beautiful 535 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 4: sad voice, cockney voice of this ex drummer of Soft 536 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 4: Machine who had fallen out of a window on that 537 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 4: LSD and could no longer walk, and that kind of stuff. 538 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 4: Very sad. So it was Kurt and I had to 539 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 4: make a video for Mother's Talk. He left Chris Hugh's 540 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 4: producer and our keyboard player Ian Stanley with the song Shock. 541 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 4: We did the video and when we came in to 542 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 4: hear what they'd done, we were shocked. We were absolutely shocked. 543 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 4: I mean, Chris had heavy totally heavied up the drum part. 544 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 4: He'd added the bass drum and snare drum from the 545 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 4: samples of When the Levee Breaks by John Bonham. Ian 546 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 4: had added on top of the bass, very very simple song. 547 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 4: These flutes fell like flute sounds, and it was not 548 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 4: like the Hurting. It didn't have that fragility. It was bombastic. 549 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 4: It was in your face, and I was thinking, well, 550 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 4: it sounds brilliant. That can we get away with it? 551 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 4: Because at that point in time, it was like it 552 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 4: was obvious what to do. It needed heavy rock guitars, 553 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 4: it needed a guitar solo, and it was like we 554 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 4: felt guilty. We felt guilty for abandoning in that sort 555 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 4: of fragility that we had that was shown on the Hurting. 556 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 4: So that's how it started. 557 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 2: We felt a little dirty. But during the process, I mean, 558 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 2: the interesting thing we look back now, Well, suddenly, if 559 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 2: I look back now and listen to the Hurting, I think, 560 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 2: as far as a recording goes, it doesn't stand up 561 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 2: as well. And I say that purely because of just 562 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 2: it seems like a very small and insular record, which 563 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: it was kind of intended to be. I guess, So 564 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 2: you know, I maybe I just don't relate to it 565 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 2: as much now as obviously I did then. But what 566 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: this allowed us to do once we accepted, you know, 567 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 2: the things that Chris was suggesting and maybe Ian was 568 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 2: suggesting and you know we ended up playing the parts, 569 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: was take the shackles off to a certain degree, was 570 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: to just basically, you know, why not put heavy metal 571 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 2: guitar on? Why not have a guitar? So why not 572 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 2: make the drums huge? You don't have to sit back 573 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 2: and be so meek and mild mannered. You can go 574 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 2: out there and just be as bombastic as you want 575 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 2: and you know, be a rock band. And it took 576 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: us a little while to accept that, but once we did, 577 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 2: there's a certain freedom in that, you know, and that freedom, 578 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: to a great accident, is continued on till today, where 579 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: now we really don't kind of worry that much about 580 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 2: what we're doing, you know, because anything kind of goes musically, 581 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 2: anything should go. So if we haven't done something before 582 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: but are doing it, you know on this track, we 583 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: don't have that same you know, can we do that? 584 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: It's like, yes, you can do anything you want. 585 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 3: So where will twenty twenty five take you? Beyond obviously 586 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 3: playing the Vegas shows. What's in the future. 587 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 4: Well, I'm sure we will continue to play live because 588 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 4: it's such fun and our show now, I mean when 589 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 4: we played in Vegas, we were playing to a two 590 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 4: hour show for the first time in our life. Oh 591 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 4: my god. You know, it doesn't really compare to McCartney 592 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 4: or Bruce Springsteen, but you know, two hours for tears 593 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 4: for pears. We need to sit down afterwards, and it 594 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 4: didn't feel like it because it's also smooth, it's beautifully 595 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 4: the new songs are, you know, tucked in with the 596 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 4: old songs. It's great and even the Tipping Point has 597 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 4: now become a classic. So we'll continue to do that. 598 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 4: But and I also continue to look at songwriting and 599 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 4: see where we're going with that. I mean, obviously we're 600 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 4: getting older. I still think that there's an album in 601 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 4: us that is probably a little bit more experimental because 602 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 4: we don't have to prove anything anymore. We can do 603 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 4: that live and we've already done it with the Tipping Point. 604 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 4: But I would like to see us venture into music 605 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 4: that we've never touched before for the first time. 606 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 2: No, and we're I think we're on the same page 607 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 2: with that, you know, it's and that's just kind of 608 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 2: you know, which which to a certain degree sums us up. 609 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,479 Speaker 2: You know, that's us sort of being bored now with that, 610 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 2: you know, it's we've done that. What's what can now 611 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: inspire me to really like get excited again? Like, doing 612 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 2: the same thing again is not going to excite us. 613 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 4: We won't do it as well, We won't do it well. 614 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: It won't mean as much, you know, because it was 615 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: of the time, and it won't get us excited, you know. 616 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: And and I think that, you know, the one thing 617 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 2: we've we've always done is unless we're excited about doing 618 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 2: something and feel passionate about it, we don't do it. Uh, 619 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 2: And I think that's just the way we are, which 620 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 2: again is you know, you're looking at that outlier comparison again. 621 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 2: You know, we don't go and record music just for 622 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 2: the sake of recording music. It's got to mean something 623 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: to us. And whether that means you know, lyrically, and 624 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 2: it normally has to be a combination of both, but 625 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: lyrically thematically and or production, you know, the way an 626 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 2: album sounds, what you're using to make these songs into 627 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 2: a recording. So yeah, you know, it'll take a while 628 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 2: for us, probably searching and fumbling around in the dark. 629 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 2: But but I feel that if the desire is there, 630 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 2: we have the talent to be able to do it. 631 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 3: You guys, I'm just so appreciative that you took the 632 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,479 Speaker 3: time to be on Taking a Walk. Thank you so much, 633 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 3: Kurtin Roland, very much, thank you. 634 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: Thanks thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking 635 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your 636 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. 637 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 638 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.