1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hey, Vicky, I am looking for a good news show 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: to watch. What should I watch? Bad Sisters just finished 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: that It is awesome. I went to try and find it. 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: It's on Apple TV, Apple TV Plus, Apple TV Plus right, 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: everything has to P plus, which means you're gonna pay. 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: And I try to log in because I have Apple TV. 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: Apparently I thought I did, but I can't find my 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: log in and I had to reset my whole Apple password. 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Just watched this show, so I just kind of gave 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: up from Bloomberg News and I heart radio. It's the 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: big take. I'm West Cassova. Each weekday we dig into 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: one important story, and today I'm going to talk about 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: why TV is better than ever and yet it is 14 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: somehow more annoying than ever. Remember when everyone loved to 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: complain how there were a hundred and fifty channels on 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: TV and nothing good to watch. It's pretty hard to 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: say that. Now there are so many good shows being made, 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: and instead our new complaint is what a pain in 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the neck it can be to try to watch all 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: those great shows. They're spread across all these streaming services, 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: and most of them want a monthly payment for the 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: privilege watching them. The Big Take podcast team here in 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: the US actually wound up griping about this very thing 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: when we were brainstorming about this episode, so we decided, 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: what the heck, let's turn on the mics. I have 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Hulu because I got a beta version forever ago that 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: was supposed to be cheaper than getting cable TV, and 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm still paying that and now they have up the prices. 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: It went from maybe fifty bucks a month now it's 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: like eight five, so basically paying cable again. Yeah, I'm 31 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: watching HBO Max, but I will come clean. I am 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: on my parents plan, so thanks mon Paw. And my 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: dad's an i T security guys, so he's also texting 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: all of the passwords and three different chats so the 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: user name isn't matched with the past worry. So yeah, 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: well I'm pretty sure both my daughters are on my Netflix. 37 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: And now Netflix says they're gonna be cracking down on um, 38 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, sharing outside the house, so that me and 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: real soon. Yeah. And I have a case where I 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: used to share a Netflix password with somebody, a former roommate, 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: and at some point I just couldn't get into Netflix. 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: But I felt like too hesitant to be like, hey, 43 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: I've been bumming your Netflix for the last six to 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: eight years. Um, could I continue bumbing your Netflix from you? Okay? 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: What is your tale of woe when it comes to TV? Well, 46 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: my sorrow came when Quimby was kicked off. Y, you're 47 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: the person who watched Quimby. I was the one. I 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: had it. I loved it. My favorite movie for the 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: youngest Helm's Worth. He was in the Most Dangerous Game. 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: I don't know his first name, but he was in that. 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: That was the very first movie Quimby put on and 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: it was fantastic. It was in ten minutes segments and great. 53 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, after that, I was trying to get into 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: some other content. But it's just quite what you're watching 55 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: with services you have? Um, I have them all. I 56 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: have HBO, show Time, I have Hulu, Apple Plus, got 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: that his near Bill, have Paramount. But since Big Brother 58 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: is over, I'm gonna delete Paramount for a while and 59 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: wait till Big Brother comes back. I have a lot, 60 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: I do. I do. It's ridiculous. Okay, Michael, Yes, where 61 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: are you watching and where do you even know? Yeah, 62 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: it's got to be the House of the Dragon on HBO. 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: Max to the Dragon Okay, so you're rolling old school 64 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: with HBO. Yes, but it's a fight every single time 65 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: because as much as I love the Continent HBO Max, 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: it's my least favorite app. I think it's navigation makes 67 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: no sense and uh, I just feel like an app 68 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: that has that much money behind it um would be 69 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: easier to use. Okay, So how many people are subscribed 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: to services that you just don't ever use but you 71 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: just can't bring yourself to go through that, so we're 72 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: trying to cancel it. I have them build on different 73 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: devices with different things, So I have showed Time build 74 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: as part of my Hulu package and I have HBO. 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: So there's really no way unless you really want to 76 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: take half your Sunday to track what you're paying where 77 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: and how much. That's how they get you. I have 78 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: one or two that I subscribe to and share a 79 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: number of which I will not disclose, right because you 80 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: don't want the cable police coming actually or they, I 81 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: guess the streaming police. It would be called exactly exactly, 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: And when they become better experiences, maybe I will subscribe 83 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: to them all myself. Prime was the one nice thing. 84 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: Prime was nice because we had it anyway, because my 85 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: husband is an avid book collector. The TV is great, 86 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: but you still have to pay for movies on top 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: of it. So I watched You've Got Mail because you 88 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: know it's fall in New York, and what else are 89 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: you gonna do besides like pencils. I own up to it. 90 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: Rebecca is coming clean. I'm coming clean about parental accounts 91 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: and Meg Ryan. So I've already seen You've Got Mail, 92 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: god knows how many times, and I was like, what's 93 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: another Meg Ryan movie that I haven't And there's one 94 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: called French Kiss. I can't figure out where it is. 95 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: I finally find it on Amazon and I click it, 96 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: and I feel victorious for all about a half a 97 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: second because it's not available in my region. And I 98 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: don't even know what that means. Where is Blockbuster when 99 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: you need it? Can't you just rent it? And they 100 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: send a tea in the mail. I do not miss 101 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: those days standing in front of that wall of videotapes 102 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: and you can't find anything. I don't know. I thought 103 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: it smelled nice. It did have a nice smell. Yeah, 104 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: they had the popcorn up front. This little radio production 105 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: was brought to you by the US based producers of 106 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: The Big Take podcast, Empire Malbaro, Michael Fallero, Rebecca Chasson, 107 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: Sam Gebauer, Vicky Verglina. How did we get to this place? 108 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: When we come back, my colleague Felix Chillette is going 109 00:05:52,920 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: to answer that question. M I'm here with my colleague 110 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: Felix Charlette. He covers media for Bloomberg and he is 111 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: also the co author of the upcoming book It's Not TV. 112 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: The Spectacular, Rise, Revolution and Future of HBO. Let me 113 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: just ask you. You know, we all hated the cable companies, 114 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: and yet you could kind of find all the shows, 115 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: and now we have better shows than ever before. And 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: yet trying to remember where everything is is maddening, and 117 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: paying for all these services is maddening. I think that 118 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: we're now in this weird phase where there's actually nostalgia 119 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: coming for the cable bundle. Forever people were complaining, Oh, 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: I just wish we could just get all these channels 121 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: ala cart wouldn't that be great. Part of the reason 122 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to write a book about HBO was this 123 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: whole era of home entertainment for the past forty years, 124 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: the cable satellite era was coming to an end. How 125 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: do you make that transition to this new era of streaming. 126 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: For a long time it was basically Netflix just completely 127 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: was dominating the streaming space, right, And yeah, this proliferation 128 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: of services that's happened in the past two years in 129 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: some ways, like you said, it's amazing for consumers. There's 130 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: just so much incredible programming out there. But it also 131 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: is kind of confusing. Where do you watch this stuff? 132 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: You know, do you have the subscription, do you remember 133 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: your past code? But in your book you kind of 134 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: take us back to the beginning of how we got here, 135 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: like why and the seeds of it seemed to be 136 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: in HBO kind of realizing the future. But Netflix as 137 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: the new player looking at the big dominant HBO saying 138 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna overtake them. Yeah, there's such big rivals now. 139 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: It's fun to think back that for a while, HBO 140 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: and Netflix were really copathetic partners. Um. You know, in 141 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: the DVD era when Netflix was a service that you 142 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: went on the Internet and you you know, looked at 143 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: your queue and you browsed all these different options and 144 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: they would send you the DVDs by mail. Um, And 145 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: during that era, Netflix bought a ton of DVDs from 146 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: HBO because people wanted to watch the Sopranos, people wanted 147 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: to watch The Wire, people wanted to watch Six ft Under, 148 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: they wanted to binge them on DVD. They wanted to 149 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: get and they would get them through Netflix. And so 150 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: Netflix was a great customer for HBO. All the shows 151 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: you just named, they were all HBO. They were the 152 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: place to go outside the Hollywood system. We didn't have 153 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: all these independent content creators yet. It was kind of 154 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: HBO was the goliath. When you saw that that statu 155 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: y screen and you heard that signature intro sounded they 156 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: played that, You're like knew you were in for something good. Yeah. 157 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: And then there's this amazing transition where you know, uh, 158 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: Netflix decides, you know what, there's this new technology. We 159 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: can send programming right into people's homes via streaming. You 160 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: can click a button, your show will start playing. You 161 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: don't have to wait for the DVDs to come in 162 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the mail. And they launched a streaming service. And what 163 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: are they going to put on there? Well, one thing 164 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: they really wanted was for the streaming service was those 165 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: HBO shows because they saw it in the data from 166 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: the DVDs and HBO the executive said, you know what, 167 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: we're not interested in in letting you have our licensed 168 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: content for this new service. During that process us, it's 169 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: sort of started dawn on the folks at Netflix that, 170 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: you know what, it's really just a matter of time. 171 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: Somewhere in the future, we're all of these big studios 172 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: and big brands. They're all gonna decide, you know what, 173 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: we want our own streaming services. We want to go 174 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: directly to the customer. We're gonna clawback our stuff. And 175 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: it really dawned on Netflix executives that they were going 176 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: to have to start making their own original programming. They thought, well, 177 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, we'll have a couple of years before we're 178 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: going to have to start doing this. And really within 179 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: a couple of months, they saw this opportunity to license 180 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: a new show that was being shopped around called House 181 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: of Cards. And there's this great moment where basically Netflix 182 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: swoops in and makes this huge offer and it was 183 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: like more than anyone had ever offered for a show, 184 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: had ever paid for something that hadn't been seen before. 185 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: We're gonna guarantee two full seasons just they offered a 186 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars for these two seasons of House of 187 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: Cards UM and it actually ended up being a great 188 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: bet by Netflix. I mean, people were astounded at the time, 189 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: how could they offer that much? They're overpaying. It's such 190 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: a what are they doing? And so now you have 191 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: this new player on the scene and they have their 192 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: own kind of signature looking sound that's immediately recognizable. Yeah, 193 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: and you know, House of Cards ended up being a 194 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: very seminal show for Netflix because it really put them 195 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: on the map and established themselves as like, we're going 196 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: to be a player in original programming, in prestige drama, 197 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: the most expensive genre there is. And it was just 198 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: kind of a fascinating moment, and that was really the 199 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: start of this rivalry HBO Max, Netflix and what they 200 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: anticipated did happen just in the past couple of years. 201 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: Then you had the launch of Disney Plus, you had 202 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: the launch of HBO Max, you know how Paramount Plus, 203 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: you have Apple doing their own original streaming UM fall 204 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: of two thousand twenty two, I think is this incredible moment, 205 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: which I like to think of as kind of the 206 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: blockbuster moment in streaming entertainment because you have Amazon Prime 207 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: rolling out their Lord of the Rings series. You know, 208 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: they pay two d and fifty million dollars for the 209 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: rights to make a TV series and they're gonna end 210 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: up spending over a billion dollars on this by the 211 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: time they roll out four or five seasons. At the 212 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: same time, HBO Max has rolled out The House of 213 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: the Dragon, which is this hugely expensive series. Netflix has 214 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: UH The Sandman, which is also a big expensive sci 215 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: fi series. Disney Plus has She Hulk. So all these 216 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: really big expensive UH programming landing on these streaming services, 217 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: and at the same time, all of these services are 218 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: under enormous pressure to try and start cutting their losses. 219 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: What is like, what's the economics of this? Are they 220 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: actually making money off of these? Well, for a long time, 221 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: I think Netflix benefited from kind of the you know, 222 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: the dominant paradigm and tech investing, which was like Wall 223 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: Street love to invest in businesses that we're losing money 224 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: as long as they were gaining scale, just gain customers. 225 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: You can charge below market rates for the product, but 226 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: you have to eat up market share. We just want 227 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: to growth, growth, growth, growth, growth, And Netflix benefited from 228 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: that for a long time because they can always spend 229 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: and spend and spend and keep increasing how much they 230 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: were spending on things. And really this year is the 231 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: first time where all of a sudden, because of all 232 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: this new competition from these other streaming services, Netflix stopped. 233 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: They actually lost customers this year for the first time 234 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: and forever, and Wall Street is suddenly like, wait, if 235 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: it's not if you're not growing, if you're not gonna 236 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: have like huge growth, we're going to start looking at 237 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: your margins a little bit more. We're gonna start looking 238 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: at how much you're spending to feel. Like you mentioned 239 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: these companies trying to stem their losses. They're making really 240 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: expensive shows. Can they actually pay for them or is 241 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: it is the model that we just have to keep 242 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: paying subscriptions to each ones to try to support all 243 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: of this. I think that's there's a lot of pressure. 244 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: And right now a lot of that money that goes 245 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: into the streaming services to pay for these huge shows 246 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: is coming from those legacy cable channels. So you know, 247 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: Disney still has the Disney Channel, and even the less 248 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: and less people are watching those cable channels, that's where 249 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: the money is still coming from. But obviously that era 250 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: is dimming. They're going to need to figure out how 251 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: to pay for all this stuff. One is that the 252 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, your subscriptions for all these services are going 253 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: to go up, right, they're already going up. And they 254 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: think also at some point, we're just going to see 255 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: more consolidation. When you say consolidate, do you mean that 256 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: the bigger ones are gonna swallow their smaller ones, or 257 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: that they're going to reconstitute the cable bundle just as 258 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: a streaming bundle under one price, and then we just 259 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: have cable again without the cable. I think it will 260 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: be both. I mean, I think in the short term 261 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: you're already seeing bundling happening. You know, in order to 262 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: have enough customers, they need to have less services in 263 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: the marketplace. So it seems like what we're looking at 264 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: is a future where we get a lot of great shows. Um, 265 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: and maybe we're paying one price, but we're still not 266 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: all that happy about it. Yeah, And I also wonder 267 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I mean, the trend that we've 268 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: seen in the movie theaters for the past, you know, 269 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: twenty years, has been this move towards blockbuster movies. Right. 270 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: The Marvel Cinematic Universe is kind of the whatever everybody wants, 271 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: But As you know, movie theaters have moved more and 272 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: more towards blockbusters. There's been this simultaneous process where you know, 273 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: less independent films get made, middle range projects don't get 274 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: made as much, And I'm curious it'll be interesting to 275 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: see if a similar um dynamic plays out and streaming too. Felix, 276 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: it looks like one way that the services are trying 277 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: to capture more revenue is cracking down on password sharing. 278 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: We've seen that from Netflix and other services. Uh, Or 279 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: do you think that we're gonna start to see more 280 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: ways where they're going to try and squeeze more money 281 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: out of each subscription. Yeah. I think that for a 282 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: long time they were pretty lenient. They didn't really worry 283 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: too much about it. At this point, I think the 284 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: pressure is ramping up to really monetize every single person 285 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: that's using the service, and that does me and making 286 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: sure that if you're watching it, you're paying for it. 287 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: And simultaneously, the other way that Netflix is dealing with 288 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: all this is they've announced, you know, we're going to 289 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: launch a advertising on the service on the platform for 290 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: the first time. That will allow them to offer a 291 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: less expensive Netflix, you know, instead of paying fifteen dollars 292 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: a month. Let's say you'll pay seven dollars a month 293 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: and you'll see some ads. UM. And broadcast television which 294 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: was advertised and supported and commercial supported, they are always 295 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: limits on what you could do artistically on television because 296 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: advertisers would get nervous about you know, uh, violence, moral complexity, um, 297 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: you know, stories about addiction. They didn't want stories about prison. 298 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: There are all sorts of things you couldn't do on 299 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: broadcast television. If you moved it to format that was 300 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: advertising free, suddenly there was a lot more creative freedom, 301 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: and that led to this huge, um, you know, revolution 302 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: in the art of television that happened on HBO. UM. 303 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: And it'll be interesting now to see almost the reverse 304 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: process as uh service like Netflix that has also operated 305 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: in this ad free, commercial free environment for you know, 306 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: it's twenty five years of existence. Suddenly they're going to 307 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: have advertisements while they're also going to have sponsors looking 308 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: over their shoulders. And what that will do the programming 309 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: we'll have to see. Felix, thanks so much for being here, 310 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: and good luck with the book. Last, thank you so much. 311 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: When we come back, I talked to my colleague Luk 312 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: at Shaw, and he's gonna tell us what does all 313 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: means for which shows get made and which ones don't 314 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: the best time. The following movie is rated R. All right, 315 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm here with my colleague Lucas Shaw. Lucas covers the 316 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: entertainment business for Bloomberg, and one thing I kind of 317 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: want to ask you is somebody who really watches this 318 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: close up is have all these new streaming services had 319 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: a big effect on the kinds of shows that are 320 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: being produced. The biggest impact that they've had has been 321 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: on the volume of shows being made and on the 322 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: money going into every show. So you know, you had 323 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: a certain number of shows being made on broadcast, let's 324 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: call it a hundred fifty a year. Then cable comes in, 325 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: after the success of HBO layers on another hundred fifty. 326 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: We get the three hundred shows a year. The Netflix 327 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: comes in. Now we're at more than five hundred shows 328 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: just scripted being made every year. You add hundreds of 329 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: unscripted to say nothing of news or sports. It's a 330 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: good thing for a lot of creative people because it 331 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: just means that there's more buyers, more opportunities. But it 332 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: also means I think that less care tends to go 333 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: into every single show. Um. The The other upside if 334 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: you're a creative person, and to some extent if you're 335 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: you're someone at home, is that a lot of these 336 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: companies are spending more per episode, at least on the 337 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: biggest show, and so the quality of what you're seeing 338 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: on TV looks more and more like film than it 339 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: might have before. That must mean that the kind of 340 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: middle of the pack and the kind of lower end 341 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: of the tier really aren't getting much of an audience 342 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: at all. You have a lot of programs where you 343 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: you have to wonder who is watching them. I mean, look, 344 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: I cover the business of entertainment for a living. I 345 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: watch a fair amount of television, although I at least 346 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: hope I have other interests, and there will be so 347 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: many shows that come and go that I've never heard of. 348 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: So what happens to those shows? You know, a network TV, 349 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: the shows would get kind of canceled if they didn't 350 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: perform because there were only a few networks and those 351 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: slats were really really precious. Now that you have so 352 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: many of them, so many slots, so much time to fill, 353 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: do shows live on forever? So the good news if 354 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: you're a creator a fan of a show, is that 355 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: most streaming services will commit to a season, and if 356 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: there's big talent involved, they'll commit to two. Um and 357 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: so shows do last or the bad shows last a 358 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: little bit longer. The counter to that is that the 359 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: good shows don't last as longer, don't stay on forever. 360 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you look, you know, across the board on 361 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: TV and they'll be a Law and order show that's 362 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: on for twenty seasons, or Grey's Anatomy is now in 363 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: its eighteenth or nineteenth I forget which season. There's no 364 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: show like that that's last that long. And streaming now. 365 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: Some of that, of course, is because streaming is newer, 366 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: but but by and large Netflix will cancel its biggest 367 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: or end its biggest hits after five or six seasons. 368 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: I think Grace and Frankie this show with Jane Fond 369 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: and Lily Tomlin is the longest running Netflix original at 370 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: like seven or eight seasons. So it's the biggest change 371 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: from the old days, when you know it was it 372 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: was broadcast TV or kind of nothing else untill now, 373 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: in the way shows are kind of created and and 374 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: the marketplace for different kinds of shows the process has 375 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: traditionally been instill is at a lot of places that 376 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: you you sell a script or a series of scripts 377 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: for a show, and then you develop it, and then 378 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: you make the pilot that first episode, and then based 379 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: on that pilot, they decide if they want to continue, 380 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: and if they choose to continue, then they'll usually pick 381 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: it up for a season, and then they'll make that 382 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: season and then it will kind of continue or not. 383 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: Netflix has not historically believed in pilots, and a lot 384 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: of streaming services. Amazon is similar in this, where it 385 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: will just pick up a season and that sort of 386 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: gets back to what we were talking about before with 387 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: kind of even the bad shows will last a little 388 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: bit longer, and part of that is because they're not 389 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: they're choosing not to make a pilot up front because 390 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: that is seen as inefficient. One thing that we are 391 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: seeing is a lot more diversity in the kind of 392 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: shows that that are shown on TV. Yes and no. 393 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: You know, I think when you if you see an 394 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: increase in the volume being made, that does create more 395 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: opportunities and and as a result of various social movements 396 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: over the last few years, there's been greater efforts on 397 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: the part of all these companies to make shows written by, 398 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: created by, directed by starring both women and people of color. 399 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: So I think the numbers have generally moved in the 400 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: right direction. They're not where most folks would like to 401 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: see them, but they have uh, they have improved. The 402 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: one area that hasn't really changed all that much, as 403 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: the executive suites where almost all these companies are are 404 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: still run by white men. Kind Of a companion to 405 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: that that I would say is there has been this 406 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: globalization of media and entertainment um and so I'm in 407 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: the middle right now of watching a Korean drama now 408 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: part of that because I'm working on a story about 409 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: a Korean production company. But you've seen a surge in 410 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: viewership and interest in international television, most of which features 411 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: people who don't look like us. If you're someone with 412 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: an idea, it is still possible to kind of come 413 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: from the outside and assume, especially if you have an 414 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: agent or manager, and try to sell it to a studio, 415 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: try to sell it to a network. You'll see bidding 416 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: oars for you know, unattached projects, but by and large, 417 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: most writers or producers of any renown have an overall 418 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: deal at a studio, which gives that studio, whether it's 419 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: Sony or Warner Brothers or Disney or Netflix, the first 420 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 1: right to make whatever idea or project that they have. Oftentimes, 421 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: that person is also attached in some way to a 422 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: TV network or streaming service, in large part because most 423 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: of the TV studios are now owned by companies that 424 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: also have a network or service, and they're trying to 425 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: funnel all the best ideas from their studio to the service. 426 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: Disney is probably the ultimate example of this, where pretty 427 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: much anything you see on Disney Plus or Hulu has 428 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: come from one of Disney's TV studios. Lucas Felix had 429 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: also talked about this kind of blockbuster phenomenon starting to 430 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: take hold more and more in the streaming television roum too, 431 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: where they're really looking for a big, big hits. Um, 432 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: how is that affected, you know, just your sort of moderate, 433 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: normal television show that isn't a monster hit. Well, I 434 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: think there's there's some concern among the average writer, writer, director, writer, 435 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: producer that streaming is gonna resemble the movie business a 436 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: little bit more. There was um sort of an outpouring 437 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: of of creativity or a willingness to take risks on 438 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: projects because when Netflix or Amazon started, they were relatively unknown. 439 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: People didn't know what a show for them should look like, 440 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: and so they had to they had to take bigger 441 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: risks to get shows made that either meant financially, so 442 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: Netflix committing to you know, two season of House of 443 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: Cards on a hundred million dollars or betting on a 444 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: kind of a relatively unproven talent or an idea that 445 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: was you know, outside the box. And I think this 446 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: led to a lot of really great and interesting television 447 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: in the early phases of streaming that has continued since then. 448 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: What you're seeing now is a lot of these networks 449 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: get more and more conservative because part of it is 450 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: they're bigger, right, so they're trying to find the shows 451 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: that can appeal to as many different people as possible. 452 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: I think after Netflix had a big hit like Bridgetin 453 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: you know that, which was sort of like the type 454 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: of show that you would have seen on a broadcast 455 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: network instead of the type of show you've seen on 456 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: you'd see on HBO, it wanted more shows like that. 457 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: When it has a squid Game, which is, you know, 458 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: this unprecedented global hit, it wants more shows like that. 459 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: The tricky part, of course, is that the biggest hits 460 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: are always surprised. Nobody ever sees them coming, and so 461 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: you get conservative and try to plan for the big hit, 462 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: you might actually be likely to miss whatever that next 463 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: great show is because you're you're looking for something that 464 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: resembles something you had before instead of looking for something 465 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: that nobody's ever seen before. Are you optimistic about the 466 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: kinds of shows we're all going to get to watch? 467 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit torn. On the one hand, I 468 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: think there's been too much television made over the last 469 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: few years, and some of the quality filters have have 470 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: gone away, um, because you have creative executive these companies 471 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: who are overseeing too many different projects. And I do 472 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: think that some brilliance comes out of limiting yourself. And 473 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: so if we're entering an era of greater fiscal responsibility, 474 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: as weird as it sounds, that might be kind of good, um, 475 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: because it will force people to be more selective about 476 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: what they make. On the other hand, you know, it 477 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: does feel like a lot of these companies are going 478 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: to get safer and safer streaming will feel a little 479 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: bit more like broadcast. It will feel a little bit 480 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: less fun, but there's more money and energy going into 481 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: television than ever. For on a more optimistic note, there's 482 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: gonna be more and more emphasis on overseas territories, which 483 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: means you'll see more and more investment in storytelling from 484 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: other parts of the world, and that's, without question been 485 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts of kind of the streaming 486 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: revolution in Hollywood is that you now can watch shows 487 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: from Japan, South Korea, France, Brazil, Mexico with relative ease. Lukashaw, 488 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks Wess, 489 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take. 490 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. 491 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: For more shows from my Heart Radio, visit the I 492 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app podcast or wherever you listen. Read Today's 493 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: story and subscribe to our daily newsletter at Bloomberg dot 494 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: com slash Big Take, and we'd love to hear from you. 495 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: Email us with questions or comments to Big Take at 496 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. The super rising producer of The Big 497 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: Take is Vicky Bergalina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. 498 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: Our producer is Rebecca Shasson. Our associate producer is Sam Gobauer. 499 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: Raphael M. Seeley is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrin. 500 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: I'm West Cansova. Have a great weekend.