1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and two, 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: which is airing in mid June of twenty twenty one. Today, 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: Sarah is going to be interviewing doctor Joan Dunlop, who's 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: had a sort of non linear career path, going through 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: different parts of medical training at different points that we're 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: looking forward to hearing about how she has made her 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: life work, So stay tuned for that. So Sarah recently 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: got back when we were recording this. She got back 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: from a few days off which had not happened in 19 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: a great long time. You had some revelations about that, Yes, 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: I had several revelations about that. It's funny. I mean, 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: we did have winter break kind of off in twenty twenty, 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean we weren't even that sick, but 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: we were sick enough, and it was very stressful because 24 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: we all had COVID and we're anyway, so that didn't 25 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: really count. That would have been like our first time 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: off and a great deal of time. There was a 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: policy in place at work during most of the pandemic 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: where we had to take one day of PTO every 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: pay period, which I guess kind of kind of but 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: it was like so in you know, it was once 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: every other week, and it was so easy for work 32 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: to end up crowding into that day anyway, that it 33 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: just felt like, oh, I'm like I'm using it all 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: and I'm not like getting any the relaxation out of it. 35 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: But now we're in another era and that policy is 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, it was for a reason, but it's it's 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: no longer in place because we're very busy clinically when 38 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: we're at work. And I finally scheduled some time and 39 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: it was it was really amazing. It was only three 40 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: days off of work too. It was over Memorial well four, 41 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: I guess because Monday counted as well, so it was 42 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: over Memorial Day weekend. Josh and I we did three 43 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: days without the kids, so our nanny stayed from Wednesday 44 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: to Friday, and it was so relaxing. I think it 45 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: was just enough time to really feel, I don't know, 46 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: like we had left and like we could just breathe 47 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: a little bit. I think one night wouldn't have quite 48 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: cut it. And then we got back and then we 49 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: had the three days off with the kids, which just 50 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: felt so spacious, Like when you have a three day 51 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: weekend and you don't have to spend the second day 52 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: of that weekend like preparing for the week. Not that 53 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Laura Condone's doing that in general, but sometimes there are 54 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,119 Speaker 1: just things that have to be done. It just was great. 55 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: And we actually met up with a family on that 56 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: Sunday and had like a big brunch together, and it 57 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: just felt so relaxing. And when I did go back 58 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: to work on the Tuesday, I was like, I love work. 59 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: Work is so fun. I'm so efficient. Yeah, you am 60 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: meeting Yeah a lot of patients. Like everything just felt 61 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: so much easier than it had the week prior. Every 62 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: text I had been getting, like the week before we 63 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: left I was like, oh, like, but then I realized, like, no, no, no, 64 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: it's not that everyone was so annoying. It was that 65 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: I was finding everything annoying because I just really needed 66 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: a break. So PSA, if you're able to take a 67 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: break and it's been a while, do it, and you 68 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: have to put it on the calendar. Like, nobody is 69 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: going to schedule your vacation for you. I mean, maybe 70 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: they will if you're really really lucky and maybe like 71 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: a CEO and anyway, but probably not. And as Laura 72 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: has pointed out, like September might look great, Oh it's 73 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: wide open, I can schedule it later, but if you 74 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: don't schedule it now, it won't be wide open by 75 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: the time you get there. So you actually have to 76 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: like proactively look at your calendar and decide when you 77 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: want to make this happen, and make it happen on 78 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: a regular basis. And at least I feel like I 79 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: had to relearn that and it's very worth it. Yeah, yeah, 80 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: I could use a break. I should be proactive. I mean, 81 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: we have vacations scheduled with the kids, but they aren't 82 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: going to be relaxing and I know that, and so 83 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: I think what I need is some time away from 84 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: the kids where I am not planning to work coming 85 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: because obviously every workday I'm not with the kids during 86 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: the workday. But yeah, that would be great. Are you 87 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: still breastfeeding? I am, but that's neither here nor there, 88 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: because I have taken a few I've traveled with the 89 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: big kids over the course of the past few months, 90 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: and so I know that I can do that and 91 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: either just express or pump or whatever. You know, he's 92 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: not drinking that much anymore. It's almost eighteen months now, 93 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: so you know, it's just a little toddler, although he's 94 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: getting more aggressively into it now that I'm like trying 95 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: to wean him, as I will say, dear, but no, 96 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: I would like to go away, or not even go away, 97 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: be home without them, you know. I just it's getting 98 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: a little bit. I've got some of that feeling like 99 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: I think you were talking about that everything is irritating 100 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: and I'm getting annoyed by everything. So probably I should 101 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: take that advice and get some time off. But got 102 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: to figure out how that's going to happen. If at 103 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: any point you do feel ready to wean, I will say, 104 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: so it was August of twenty nineteen, I purposefully I 105 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: went away with my college girlfriends. We went to Toronto 106 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: for like three days. It was wonderful. I didn't pomp 107 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: on purpose. I knew that would probably kind of like 108 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: finally make my supply go down. I think I got 109 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: home and I nursed like one more time, but then 110 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: like in subsequent times, it had dropped it and she 111 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, I got it that, like the 112 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: milk is not there. She was old enough she was 113 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: like asking for it with words. Yeah, but she got it. 114 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: I was kind of like, you know, I think it's 115 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: I think it's gone. And that was actually kind of 116 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: like a nice like ending, and it was. It was 117 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: very nice. I bet you just need some uninterrupted sleep. 118 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: Well there's that too, I would like, and I get 119 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: that some nights. I mean, Michael and I trade off going, 120 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: you know, go sleep in the guest room, right, and 121 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: then he will be on with Henry and because Henry 122 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: sleeps in the master bedroom closet until we move. But no, 123 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, even just like an I think a day, 124 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: like a weekend day where I didn't have responsibilities for 125 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: anyone would be would be helpful so we'll see. I 126 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: think you can make it happen, all right, Well we'll try. 127 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's hear what Joan Dunlop has to say. 128 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome here doctor Joan Dunlop, 129 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: who is at Hopkins. And we had multiple requests for 130 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: people who had a little bit unusual career trajectories or 131 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: some time out of work, and we thought she would 132 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: be perfect to have this discussion. Joan, can you go 133 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: ahead and introduce yourself? Yeah, thanks for having me, Sarah. 134 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: My name is Joan Dummop. I'm a pediatric allergist at 135 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins. That's what I do for work. But the 136 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: other parts of who I am, I'm mom to three 137 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: kids aged thirteen, twelve, and eight, and I'm married to 138 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: a pastor, which is probably unusual for the listenership of 139 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: this podcast. He's an associate pastor at a Southern Baptist 140 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: church here in Washington, d C. Wow, that is unusual. 141 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: What a cool combination. I love that. Well, I am 142 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: not going to talk much. I want you to tell 143 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: our listeners the story of your somewhat unusual career trajectory 144 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: through medicine, and I guess I will give the background 145 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: that for most people, you kind of go to med school. 146 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: A lot of times you're fresh out of college, so you're, 147 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: you know what, twenty two years old when you start 148 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: med school. Then you start your fellowship but around twenty six, 149 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: and maybe you're done with your residency at twenty six 150 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: and then maybe you're done with that at twenty nine 151 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: thirty and maybe do a fellowship and then you're all done. 152 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: That's kind of like typical, but some may notice that 153 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: that does interfere directly with the most common and healthy 154 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: child bearing years. Absolutely, and so there may be other paths. 155 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: So I will let you go ahead and talk about 156 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: how it was for you and quite different. Yeah, great, 157 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: thanks Sarah. So, as Sarah mentioned, medicine, academic medicine in particular, 158 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: is usually kind of a it's presented as a really 159 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: linear path. And one of the reasons I told Sarah 160 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: and Laura that was interested in coming on the podcast 161 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: was because I'm really a big proponent of people making 162 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: their own path and doing what works best for them 163 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: and for their family. So I did the pretty typical 164 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: thing as Sarah described, and went to college and then 165 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: went on to medical school. In medical school. I actually 166 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: started hopping off the path a little bit. I dip 167 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: my toe in the water. I took a year off 168 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: in the middle of medical school. I got married in 169 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: the middle of my third year of medical school and 170 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: took a year off to just try to see if 171 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: continuing in medicine was going to work for my husband 172 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: and I and our relationship and our career trajectories and 173 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: what we wanted to do with our lives. The short 174 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: story from that was we decided, yes, absolutely, we're going 175 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: to finish medical school. And then I was a pediatric 176 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: resident here at Johns Hopkins. I started in two thousand 177 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: and four. And that's also presented often as a straight 178 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: shot career path. So you need to do your residency 179 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: and then you need to decide right away what you 180 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: want to do with the rest of your life. Do 181 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: you want to specialize, do you want to be a generalist? 182 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: And as Sarah mentioned, you know, you really finish residency 183 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: around twenty nine, which is kind of prime child bearing years. 184 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: And I decided that I was going to hop off. 185 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: And that was a huge, like just a watershed moment 186 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: in my life of deciding that even though I could 187 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: go on I was going to prioritize having children, and 188 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: so I was going to take a job out of 189 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: residency that would allow me to flex up or flex 190 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: down for the needs of my family. So I took 191 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: a job at a Children's National Medical Center, which is 192 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: a hospital here in DC, working their emergency department, and 193 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: I worked part time. I flexed it up, I flexed 194 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: it down. That year had my first child, and then 195 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: a couple years later had my second, and then my 196 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: second son had significant medical needs. So Sarah and I 197 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: could get all nerdy about it, but we'll try to 198 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: keep it non medical. And his future just wasn't totally sure. 199 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: We just didn't know what was going to be next 200 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: for him. So I made the decision. Basically, he had 201 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: a lot of therapies and appointments and I wanted to 202 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: be there for those. So I made the decision to 203 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: pull way back with my work schedule, and then eventually 204 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: actually decided that I needed to step out altogether. That 205 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult. I think a lot of us put 206 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: a lot of our identity in what we do for work, 207 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: and I think as doctors were guilty of being extra identified, 208 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: closely identified with our work, and so it was a 209 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: huge deal for me to decide that it wasn't the 210 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: right time for my family for me to be in 211 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: the workforce. So I left completely. And in this I 212 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: just see, I mean, God just totally opened a door 213 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: for me because it was so kind. So I was 214 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: home completely. My son had a bunch of surgeries, had 215 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of you know, lots of weekly or bi 216 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: weekly therapy, and then Children's decided to open a satellite 217 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: emergency department. We're a poor neighborhood here in DC, which 218 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: is awesome because that was a neighborhood that really wasn't 219 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: getting high quality care. But now they had to staff 220 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: two emergency departments twenty four to seven, and they were 221 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: hiring a lot of new staff. But at some point 222 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: they said, you know, we really want staff. We know 223 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: staff were already have confidence in who we trust, and 224 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: so they reached out to me and said, hey, you 225 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: know what we really need someone we would really like, 226 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: basically you to come back. And I said, well, I've 227 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: got you know, you know, I left because my son's 228 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: medical needs. And they said, well, we'll take whatever hours 229 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: you can give us. What can you give us? And 230 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: I just decided to ask big. So I just said 231 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: I could do a weekday daytime shift, which, as Sarah knows, 232 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: is like hot commodity, right if you're working, if you're 233 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: staffing in unit twenty four to seven, to ask for 234 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: a oh, and I want it the same weekday every 235 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: week for babysitter, and that is like impossible to get 236 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: when you're so junior. And they said, sure, do you 237 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: want Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday? Fantastic? So then I ended 238 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: up working that Thursday day shift gig basically for many years. 239 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: So I did that for several years until I so 240 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: my second son did much better, started in a regular school. 241 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: We had a daughter, our third child around that time, 242 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: and so when all the kids were starting were back 243 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: in I should back up. All the kids were either 244 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: in school or getting ready to start school, and my 245 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: husband and I were looking ahead, Okay, now we have 246 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: a little bit more bandwidth. I've been doing this very 247 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: part time job for at that point, I had been 248 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: out of residency for like six or seven years, which is, 249 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, unusual. Typically your path is set by them, 250 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: and I said, I would like to go back and 251 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: do more. What can I do? What should I do? 252 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: What do I want? To do, and so there were 253 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: a lot of options out there. You know, with my 254 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: it's not like I was uneducated. So with my pediatric certification, 255 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: I certainly could go join the general pediatrics practice. I 256 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: could continue working in the emergency department. But the part 257 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: of the story I didn't tell was in the interim, 258 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: both of my boys, my older boys, had been diagnosed 259 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,119 Speaker 1: with food allergies, and I realized that as a pediatrician, 260 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: I actually had not gotten a ton of education in 261 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: food allergies. When I was a resident, I wasn't exposed 262 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: a lot. It's very much an outpatient kind of disease, 263 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: and so we didn't see a ton of it as residents, 264 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: and I didn't have any personal interest. And long story short, 265 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of things worked together. I had been working 266 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: with an asthma initiative based in our emergency department, so 267 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: that's also in the allergy field. And I said, you 268 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: know what, I am constantly reading about food allergy for 269 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: my children. I think I can do this. I think 270 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: I would like to contribute to figuring out why we 271 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: have food allergies and why there's more of them, and 272 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: to work on therapies. So with that motivation, in mind, 273 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: I applied for pediatric fellowship training. So at this point 274 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: people are getting an application, it's a woman who's seven 275 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: or eight years out of residency, so older than the 276 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: typical candidate and an atypical sort of career path. I 277 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: had stayed in so I, you know, other than those 278 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: six months when my second son had a lot of 279 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: medical needs, I had always done something. So I can't 280 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: say that I left completely for an extended length of time, 281 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: but I did really scale down. So I was really 282 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: thankful Hopkins. You know, I was a resident there, so 283 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: they basically were like, we're happy to take a risk 284 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: of you. So I came back to fellowship training. How 285 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: old is my goodness, It's terrible, but I don't know. Anyway, 286 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: I turned forty as a fellow, so I think as 287 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: the first year fellow, and my kids were all in school, 288 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: and yeah, I got a master's in epidemiology while I 289 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: was a fellow as well. It's a three year fellowship, 290 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: and then stayed on the faculty. So that's kind of 291 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: how I got to where I am now, and that's 292 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: where I am today. So I work full time at 293 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: Hopkins as a Pediatric Allergy faculty member. And I teach 294 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: fellows and medical students and residents, and I see patients, 295 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: and I do a lot of research. That is I mean, 296 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: I think for those outside of medicine, it might be 297 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: hard to appreciate how unusual that is and also how 298 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: easy you made it sound, whereas I have a feeling 299 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: in the moment there was probably a lot of self 300 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: doubt or I mean maybe not, but like it's just 301 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: such a different path. We do have to take a 302 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: very quick break, and then I absolutely want to hear 303 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: more about what was going through your head during that time. Okay, 304 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: we are back, and so it sounds like you were 305 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: completely out for about a year, about four months something, 306 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: about six months okay, and then you went back in 307 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: and that was only once a week for many years. 308 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: And then that personal experience is funny. If your childhood 309 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: had diabetes, you'd probably be an endo like me, and 310 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: you'd be doing something else. Yeah. That is a huge 311 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: part of what I think has really made it work, 312 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: which is that my expertise at home and my expertise 313 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: at work are in the same field. So everything I 314 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: do at home influences what I do. So it's not 315 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: like nine years and I didn't do anything related to allergy. 316 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Nine years I was raising children who had food allergy 317 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: and keeping them alive and understanding, you know, what are 318 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: the difficult things about taking care of them, And so 319 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: absolutely I think that was really an amazing thing. I mean, 320 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: of course I wish my kids didn't have food allergies, 321 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: but you know, if they do it, I'm glad I 322 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: can be part of finding a solution. And when you 323 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: chose to kind of take that step back and get 324 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: the subspecialty training and put yourself in with peers who 325 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: were probably you know, up to a decade younger than 326 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: you were, how did you process that? And I'm also curious, 327 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, just from a logistics standpoint, you've got like 328 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: multiple kids and you're going back into training, but you 329 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: only have a fellow salary. How did I buy out? 330 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: Great great questions. So, first of all, about the age gap, 331 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: I think I was a little nervous about that, But 332 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: in the end, I think if you love to learn, 333 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: the opportunity to be a learner is so fine, so 334 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: that you know, it wasn't a huge deal. It was 335 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: lovely to basically be paid to learn, which is incredible. 336 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: The other thing that really I think was helpful is 337 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: in terms of the kids. I did wait for a 338 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: good time when my children were already in school, so 339 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: it was it was the right time for our family. 340 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: They were all actually planned it, I mean as much 341 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: as a person can plan. But all of the kids 342 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: were going to be in the same school building, like 343 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: all in the elementary school that we had already been 344 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: going to for several years during the whole duration of 345 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: my fellowship, so I knew the people at the school, 346 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: My children were familiar with the school. There was going 347 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: to be one drop off and one pick up, you know, 348 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean, to make multiple things work. It just wouldn't 349 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: have worked. And the other thing you had mentioned about 350 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: working a salary difference, I mean there is a huge 351 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: salary difference. A fellow does not make a huge salary, 352 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: as you know. However, I remember I had only been 353 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: working one day week, so I wasn't needing a ton 354 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: of wildcare. And yeah, so that made a fellow salary 355 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: not a huge deal, got it. You weren't paying for 356 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: like three daycares or something exactly exactly. Yeah, my kids 357 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: go to public school and that was a huge help. 358 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. Were you able to moon Did you 359 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: moonlight in the ear during your fellowship or was that 360 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: out of thing? So tempted I you know, they were like, oh, 361 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: come any time, do a shift, it'll be great. And 362 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: my husband was like, remember, you know, like you're doing 363 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: this huge thing, You're filling up all your time, don't 364 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: you don't need to add on? So thankfully financial I 365 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: didn't need to. You know, it certainly is an option, 366 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: but also I think I did take on a big thing, 367 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: but knowing my limits, I think it's also been really good. 368 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: So what advice would you have? And I'm sure at 369 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: Hopkins you probably do. I hope you get to speak 370 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: to the residents about, you know, thinking outside the box 371 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: of what is I'm going to like ask all of 372 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: mine to listen to that so they to talk to 373 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: your residence. I'm like, I love talking to you know again, 374 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: and I love promoting alternative pathways. And I would say, 375 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, one of the most important things is that 376 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: making decisions about our work and our family life are 377 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: not value neutral. Our values completely come into play when 378 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: we make those choices, and sometimes peele make it seem 379 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: value neutral in that either they say, oh, you can 380 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: do everything if you're just a little bit more organized 381 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: or a little bit more together, you know, and that's 382 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: not true. You need to decide what matters to you. 383 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: For me, my Christian faith is really important for identifying 384 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: my values, and so that hugely drives you know, what 385 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: I value, how I want to spend my time, and 386 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: then you know, make your decisions from a place of 387 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: your own values, not just Hey, everyone around me is 388 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: seeming to everyone's going to this next. You know, you 389 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: really should pull up and ask, like, really, do I 390 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: really want to go to that next? I mean, you know, 391 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: medical training is really designed originally for men, right, So 392 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: hence the timeline. It made total sense. You could you 393 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: could have a family, and it's not wrong, but it 394 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: doesn't fit. It didn't fit my timeline and what my 395 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: family needed, and so I made some choices. It's a 396 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: little bit risky, and it thankfully worked out for me. 397 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: So I'm here to say it worked out for me. 398 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: But you know, even if it didn't work out for me, 399 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad that I followed my values along the way, 400 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: because every the path matters, not just the destination. So 401 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, my training was really important, My fellowship time 402 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: was really important. It wasn't just a means to an end. 403 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: It also was an important time in and of itself, 404 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: relationships with co workers, taking care of patients. And so 405 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: if you can view it as all part of one 406 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: journey where you want to go, then it's a lot 407 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: easier to kind of march to your own drummer. But 408 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, again, it's hard to do. I mean, I 409 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: think there's more of us who need to say, hey, 410 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: there's other options available, go, you know, look around, think 411 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: about what works for you, and make your own choices. 412 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly agree, and I think I got goosebumps when 413 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: you're minded one journey because it is I mean, there 414 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: is this temptation, whether you're in medical training or legal 415 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: training or some sort of stepping stone, to be like, 416 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: well I'm just getting past this part, but like that 417 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: is your life. There's no one year that's like more 418 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, sacred than another. They are all important and 419 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: to some extent, yes, there are may be years that 420 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: are more difficult or balanced one way or the other, 421 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: but you do have to step back and think about 422 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: what your values are, because if it's year after year 423 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: after year of not living according to what they are, 424 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: you don't get to do it again. Yeah, and I think, 425 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean you probably know this to your kids are 426 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: still real small. Your kids shift in what they need, 427 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, well, when they're really little. It's like every 428 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: three months. Now that my kids are older, I would 429 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: say like once a year, but I actually take time 430 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: to go through what my priorities are, how I'm spending 431 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: my time in this particular year, whether I think I 432 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: need to re adjust, like maybe one kid needs more time. 433 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you know, I'm realizing this kidneys lest time, and 434 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: this year is my year for really focusing on getting 435 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: a certification or you know, a particular educational goal. And 436 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: so having those big planning sessions keeps me as well 437 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: from just doing the thing that I feel like everyone 438 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: around me is doing. I think you need to delve 439 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: in a little bit more to those planning sessions you 440 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: said to planning. Yes, I know. I actually have a 441 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: series of questions that I go through for myself where 442 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: I think about how I'm prioritizing my time. And it's 443 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: driven a lot again by my Christian faith, So like, 444 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: how am I prioritizing my spiritual growth? How am I 445 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: doing in loving people around me? How am I doing 446 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: in loving my family and I go through and the 447 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: recognition is you can't do all of the things at 448 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: any one time, Like when you have a small baby, 449 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: you might not be prioritizing your physical health because you 450 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: know you're getting up at night. You're not going to 451 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: get up at four in the morning, and like while 452 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: some people will, but I will not go for a 453 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: big run. And so it's okay to say, hey, I'm 454 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: very consciously in this season of life going to dial 455 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: way back on one thing because I see that I'm 456 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: dialed way up on another. And that is a huge 457 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: help because it's not just not just thinking about, oh, 458 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: I'm not doing this or that, but thinking about, okay, 459 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: where am I spending my time and is that the 460 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: best place to spend my time right now? Given who 461 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: my kids are, who my husband is, you know what 462 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: my personal interests are, what our situation is. And it's 463 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: so good to stop and look at that, because otherwise 464 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: you either end up on one side, which is trying 465 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: to do everything and feeling like you're failing all over 466 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: the place, or just doing what's right in front of 467 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: you because it's there, and then not realizing that you're 468 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: kind of missing the best way to spend your time. 469 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: And I think you're so right what you pointed out. 470 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: When you are like consciously neglecting an area, it feels 471 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: very different than when you're like, well I should, but 472 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: I can't, but I kind of want It's I think 473 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: that's really really important, and it's kind of aligned with 474 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: how Laura talks about like not making your to do 475 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: list too long, Like if you put ten things on there, 476 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: it is going to set you up to have a 477 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: bad day. But if you put three things on there 478 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: and actually do them, you will feel success. Do you 479 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: actually block out time in your schedule to have these sessions? Yea? 480 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: How do you remember to do it? Yeah? So when 481 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: the kids were younger, I did it probably quarterly and 482 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: I would just go to a coffee shop for morning. 483 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: And like my husband knows, like the kids are you know, 484 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: the kids are his. As I've gotten older, I do 485 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: it about like I mentioned, once or twice a year 486 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: or so. I'll try to do it if we're on vacation, 487 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: or just take a morning every now and then, I 488 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: just take like a day away and that's fantastic and 489 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: super fun, and I'll do that. I love that. Well, 490 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: tell our listeners a little bit, how you make the 491 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: pieces fit together? Right now, Like, what is a week 492 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: in your life? I don't want to see a day 493 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: because I'm sure you're like have very clinical days and 494 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: very researchy days and yeah, varies well, and this year 495 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: with COVID, I think we can all agree that every 496 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: I would say, well, first of all, every day, every 497 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: week has been different, which could they could too just 498 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: be the same, Like I'm kind of worn out of 499 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: all the shape. But the other thing I would say 500 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: is this year has been unsustainable, and I'm totally glad 501 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: to say that. I mean, I think it's a help 502 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: to people to hear that. You know, if we had 503 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: had the foresight to know that our children would be 504 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: learning from home and have weird restrictions on their activities 505 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: and social friendships, I probably wouldn't have signed on to 506 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: be a full time, you know, medical school faculty member. 507 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to remember that this, you know, this 508 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: year has been a lot of falling apart. So one 509 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: of the main ways that I think I've made things 510 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: work is by really forming a village around myself, so 511 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: that includes, you know, a real strong network of friends, neighbors, 512 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: stay at home moms. My parents have been incredibly helpful. 513 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: I actually, when I started this path, I actually reached 514 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 1: out to my parents first, and I said, listen, if 515 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to do this allergy thing, I'm not going 516 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: to be able to do it alone. I'm going to 517 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: need a lot of help. And I don't want you 518 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: guys to feel like you have to help me if 519 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: you don't think this is a good idea. You know, 520 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: I really wanted. I was really solicity their feedback, and 521 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: they were super enthusiastic, and in fact, they were just 522 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: here last month and did because my older boys, who 523 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: are in middle school, have the worst possible hybrid learning 524 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: schedule known to man. I would just like to say, 525 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: it's half day in person and a half day virtual 526 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: four days a week, and you're supposed to get to 527 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: a from yeahs, and we live in DC. We go 528 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: to a city. It's a city wide school, so they 529 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: get kids from all over the city, so it's not 530 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: close to us. So my wonderful parents came and my 531 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: dad really just served as chauffeur. He just drove the 532 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: boys around and I was so thankful for that. So 533 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: the village is a huge part of how I make 534 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: it work. Synergy is another thing which we talked about. 535 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: So my work influences my home. My home life influences 536 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: my work. When I go to the grocery store and 537 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: I read food labels because my kids have food allergies. 538 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: I once took a I was on call and I 539 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: took a phone call while I was walking to the 540 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: parking garage. It was a mom who said our kid 541 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: had gotten a cookie at daycare and he was having 542 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: and sort of reaction. And I said, oh, well, what 543 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: kind of cookie. She's like, it's a nil awayfers. I said, okay, 544 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: well those contain egg, you know, and like that's one 545 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: of his allergens. You know. I know that because I 546 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: can't buy nil away fers for my egg allergic kids. 547 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: So there's a ton of synergy, which is fantastic. And 548 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: then I think picking the right time is huge. So 549 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: they're like, as we alluded to, there's some phases of 550 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: life where it's just really difficult. Like I can't imagine 551 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: if I was the mom of young children, like newborns 552 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: that aren't sleeping, and I was trying to use my 553 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: brain cells to generate research thoughts. I just don't think 554 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: that I can get tasks done when I'm tired, but 555 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: I can't like think creatively and be really original. And 556 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: so you know, I really feel like I got the 557 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: right time with my family and that doesn't work for everyone, 558 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: but I was really fortunate. And yeah, you just you 559 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: end up also with a lot of efficiencies. I'm sure 560 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: we all have, like the small hacks that that we 561 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: work out. Can you think of one I'm putting on 562 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: the spot, you think of one to share, like, okay, 563 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: the top of your head. Okay, so one a product 564 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: thing might like is I'm a huge fan of the 565 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: Dagni Dover tots. Is they have like a kajillion pockets 566 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: for things like your laptop and really like and a 567 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: key leash because I don't have time to look for 568 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: my keys and I'm going to lose my keys all 569 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: the time. And my kids know I lose my phone 570 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: constantly and they're they're always helping you find it. And 571 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: then the final thing is actually I think to think 572 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: of some remember the advantages that you bring from coming 573 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: from an alternative path. Sometimes I think people are like, oh, 574 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: I've been out of the workforce, you know, embarrassed. I'm 575 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: like kind of skulking back in, like, no, you are 576 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: a mom. You know how to work in an office situation, 577 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: you know how to handle conflict, you know how to 578 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: organize things and make quick decisions. I mean, those are 579 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: those are skills that are so valuable, certainly in academic medicine, 580 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: but really anywhere else. I mean, you know, the levelheadedness 581 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: of a mom of like, Okay, someone had a huge 582 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: spill of their juice all over there. We're going to 583 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: drive safely, and then we're going to like prioritize what 584 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: we're going to clean that up, Like you know that 585 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: just kind of like you're not going to freak out, 586 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: You're not going to scream. We're going to think about 587 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: what needs to be done and make a plan. And 588 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: that kind of attitude is so valuable in any workplace. 589 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: You know, if you know how to get along and 590 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: get things done, I think that's incredibly valuable. So know 591 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: that you bring that because that's an incredible gift that 592 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: you can bring to the workplace. That's so funny. I'm 593 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: just thinking about how like my most chaotic call day 594 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: is still like much calmer than like one solo parenting weekend. 595 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: Like totally my husband used to laugh at me because 596 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: when the kids were really little and I worked in 597 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: the pediatric er he said, it's a picture of how 598 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: stressful parenting small children is. That you are going to 599 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: an urban emergency department to continue working with children, because 600 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: that's like your RESTful day boxing day in the emergency. 601 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 1: You know, at least those emergencies are there's staff, but 602 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: no one's calling me mommy. That's amazing. Well, you have 603 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: listened to best of both worlds. You know. We like 604 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: to get our love of the week from our guests, 605 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be unoriginal because I'm kind of like 606 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: looking at what's on my desk right now and I 607 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: don't feel like I've given Okay, this is going to 608 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: be a dual level of the week. Oh. First of all, 609 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: these are Tombo play color dot pens, and I don't 610 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: like the dot part at all. Actually it's very smudgy 611 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: and I can never make the dot straight, so that 612 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: part's not a love. But they have a fine tip 613 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: on the other end that is like my new favorite 614 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: fine tip pen. Like they're super i don't know, like precise, 615 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: and I like them better than I'm like a big 616 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: pen nerd as you know, yeah, I like them better 617 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: than the Stetlar fineliners. I like better than the flares. 618 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: And this is a dual love of the week because 619 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: I order them from a small online shop called Honeypress 620 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: Dot NC, which is based near my sister actually in 621 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina, and they sell Japanese and Korean basically all 622 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: different Asian stationary products and with kind of like a 623 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: little bit of a Southern she's a little Southern vibe going. 624 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: So this is North Carolina and it's just a great 625 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: online shop. So you should check it out. But you 626 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: should order these pens if you like fine things. But 627 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if someone can master the Doctor's I 628 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: feel like the dot would be get for those bullet journalers. Yeah, 629 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: I mean I do that kind of planning, but I can't. 630 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: I just I don't have the skill. I like, can't 631 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: get a tea like even And then it also has 632 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: a lot of bleed. I'm very picky. Yeah, it's cool, 633 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: that's all right, Okay, my level of the week. I've 634 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: been actually planning for this because I know you always ask, 635 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: So my level of the week are these books called 636 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: one hundred one Things to Do on a Rainy Day. 637 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: There's also one called one hundred and one Things to 638 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: Do Outside, and the author is Don Isaac I Saac. 639 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: My daughter, my eight year old daughter found them early 640 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: during COVID because she was reading the Ramona books and 641 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: Esus is always reading some book called two hundred and 642 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: two Things to Do, and so she said, mommy's got 643 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: a real book. So I don't know, but let's look. 644 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: So we found this book at the library and we 645 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: loved it so much, and it's been such a great 646 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: thing during COVID. My daughter will flip through on her 647 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: own and get ideas, and then we've done a bunch 648 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: of the activities and she's excited to do a bunch 649 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: more this summer. Well, that's sounds so perfect for my 650 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: nine year old that I am going to immediately after 651 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: this go to my library old website, preserve it. Absolutely 652 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: have fun doing it. I will, well, this has been 653 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: such a pleasure, one of my favorite interviews, honestly, so 654 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,479 Speaker 1: I really am going to suggest my residence took it out. 655 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: Although I don't know that they know I have a podcast, 656 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: but that's okay. I guess they'll know now. So thank 657 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: you so much. We're all doing this. It was wonderful, 658 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: and tell our listeners where they can find you, if 659 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: there are any avenues you know what you really can't, 660 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: I mean, other unless you read the academic allergy literature, 661 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: in which case you know I publish under JH. Some 662 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: of them do. Or you can find my husband because 663 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: he's a pastor and he's written some books. Actually he's 664 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: Jamie Dunlop and he's written a book about church budgets 665 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: and church community. So awesome. Well, thank you so much, 666 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you. Well, 667 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: that was great, Thanks for that interview, Sarah. So instead 668 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: of doing a normal question answer today, we wanted to 669 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: actually share a follow up from somebody who had sent 670 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: in a question to us previously. This listener had asked 671 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: for a work from home arrangement back in the Stone 672 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: Ages of work from home, which was twenty nineteen, and 673 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: had been told no, oh no, that will never work 674 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: for us. Our organization can't possibly work remotely. Fast forward, 675 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: of course, and twenty twenty, her organization, like every other 676 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: one of this sort, did have to go remote. They 677 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: did not fall apart. It turned out that they could 678 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: work remotely anyway. She wrote back, do you want to 679 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: share what she wrote to us. Yeah, and this is 680 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: all nice and anonymous. We don't have company names, so 681 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read it pretty much. And by the way, 682 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: when you send us feedback about our you know our responses. 683 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: It is so much fun. So if we ever answer 684 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: your question, please let us know if the you know 685 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: our advice worked or not or anything like that. All right, 686 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: so she writes, Hi, Laurence Sarah, I was thinking about 687 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: our email exchange from twenty nineteen and I wanted to 688 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: give you an update. You asked answer my question about 689 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: an employer who was restrictive on work from home on 690 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: your podcast back then. Obviously, with COVID, the work from 691 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: home world has changed. From March twenty twenty to April 692 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the same employer didn't about face and 693 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: I was full time work from home. When they go 694 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: back to the office, hybrid work from home will be 695 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: available with two days from home three days in the office. 696 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: But I learned that I love working from home so 697 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: much that I found another job in my industry and 698 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 1: a huge career upgrade at that. As of last month, 699 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: I took a full time remote position as a consultant 700 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: with headquarters a several hours from home. This person will 701 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: go to headquarters one necessary a few times a year, 702 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: but otherwise we'll be in her home office. The new 703 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: job also came with wait for it, a thirty percent 704 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: pay increase. It's her own version of the best of 705 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: both worlds. She writes, the world is changing and all 706 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: the better for working moms. Thank you both for the 707 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: content you produce. It's a lifeline for moms like me. 708 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: Oh yay, it made us so happy. That made us 709 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: very happy. And I love follow ups like this. And 710 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: I also want to say that hello, original company, like 711 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: you could have probably kept her if you let her 712 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: work from home full time and gave her a raise, 713 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: But you know, since that didn't happen, I'm glad that 714 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: she found another organization that was willing to make the 715 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: appropriate steps to lure her over there and give her 716 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: the job she wanted at a pay rate that was 717 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: good for her. So congrats to our listener. And I 718 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: also just want to call attention to this because often 719 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: we think about jobs in terms of trade offs, like, oh, 720 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: if I want flexibility, I'm going to have to give 721 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: up X, Like I won't be able to find a 722 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: job that I love, is flexible and pays a lot, 723 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: like I'll have to give up one of those things, 724 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: like okay, maybe. But the thing is, careers and jobs 725 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: aren't like money, where every dollar is exactly the same 726 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: as every other dollar, Like there's there's a certain efficiency 727 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: in markets that there isn't in the job market because 728 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: people aren't like that, right, So when you are looking 729 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: for a job, you found one that was available around 730 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: where you were, you know at the time, you were 731 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,479 Speaker 1: looking with an organization that you knew about. Now, any 732 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: of those things is limiting it in a way that 733 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: if you had all the information available, wouldn't have been 734 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: the case. And so what that means is that most 735 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: people have not absolutely optimized in terms of their jobs. 736 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: So in more simple terms, like, if you don't like 737 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: your current job, it is always possible that you will 738 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: like a better paying one better like it's not a 739 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: figure to have to trade off one of those things necessarily. 740 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: So make sure that you aren't just settling because you 741 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: assume you will have to trade off. Cast a broader net, 742 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: keep looking network a lot. The odds are good that 743 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: you haven't optimized on one dimension, which means that it's possible. 744 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: You'll be able to go up on multiple dimensions with 745 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: your next move. Love that wonderful advice. All right, well, 746 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: this has been best of both worlds. Sarah interviewed doctor 747 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: Joan Dunlap about her career. We will be back next 748 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together. 749 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 750 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 751 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 752 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 753 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 754 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: life work together.