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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Argentina's new president is

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Speaker 1: taking radical steps to get the country out of a crisis.

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Speaker 1: Annual inflation is around two hundred and seventy five percent.

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Speaker 1: That some of the highest inflation in the world. And

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Speaker 1: to put that in perspective, a coffee you paid five

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Speaker 1: dollars for in January would cost almost twenty dollars one

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Speaker 1: year later. The effects of this kind of high inflation

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Speaker 1: are devastating. People's life savings go up in smoke, rent soares,

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Speaker 1: and so do food prices. Argentina's economy has been spiraling.

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Speaker 1: It was in the midst of this crisis that Javiermulay

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Speaker 1: was elected president last year. Melay is a staunch libertarian,

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Speaker 1: and his campaign promised drastic reforms would turn the country around.

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Speaker 1: He called for burning down the country's central bank, and

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Speaker 1: Malay wielded a chainsaw to illustrate how he was going

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Speaker 1: to cut through government spending. He also dressed up as

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Speaker 1: general and cap that's short for a narco capitalist. Malay

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Speaker 1: wore spandex and a mask, waived a trident and sang

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Speaker 1: about fiscal policy. But there's another side to Malay. He

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Speaker 1: was an economist by profession, widely published, and about one

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Speaker 1: hundred days into his term, Melay has softened some of

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Speaker 1: his positions a bit.

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Speaker 2: You know he is. I think the word eccentric would

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Speaker 2: be an extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: This week, John Micklethwade, Bloomberg's editor in chief, sat down

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Speaker 1: with Argentina's president to talk about the radical reforms he's

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Speaker 1: made so far. Today on the show Argentina and Javier

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Speaker 1: Malay's plans to shock that country's economy. I'm David Gura,

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Speaker 1: and this is the big take from Bloomberg News. Javier

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Speaker 1: Mile became the President of Argentina just over one hundred

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Speaker 1: days ago. He made headlines with his extreme politics and

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Speaker 1: his flair for political theater after Bloomberg editor in chief

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Speaker 1: John Micklethwaite interviewed him. This week in Buenos Aires, I

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Speaker 1: caught up with John and I asked him to describe

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Speaker 1: the challenges Argentina faces today.

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Speaker 2: I think the easiest way to explain Argentina to pretty

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Speaker 2: much everybody outside Argentina is you take everybody else's problem

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Speaker 2: and you multiply it by about ten. So in Argentina,

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Speaker 2: it's a great success to reduce inflation to thirteen percent

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Speaker 2: per month, when most other people would worry if you

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Speaker 2: had one percent inflation per month. You look at the

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Speaker 2: numbers in terms of what is happening as this rather

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Speaker 2: amazing figure begins to enact as reforms. You see consumer

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Speaker 2: spending diving by twenty five percent in a month, pensions

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Speaker 2: thirty percent below what they were last year, fifty seven

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Speaker 2: percent of people living in poverty, salaries down fifty percent

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Speaker 2: over x amount of years. You could go on and on,

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Speaker 2: and you look at the amount of fuss that happens

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Speaker 2: in other countries when things change by two or three percent,

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Speaker 2: and the way we write about those, And then you

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Speaker 2: come to Argentina.

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Speaker 1: His path to the presidency was paved with promises. He

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Speaker 1: said he was going to put in place thousands of reforms.

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Speaker 1: How happy does have your malay seem with the progress

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Speaker 1: that he's made so far?

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Speaker 2: I think the answer is a mixture between bravado mixed

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Speaker 2: with bits of realism.

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Speaker 3: So face with this.

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Speaker 4: Scenario, scenario unprecedented fiscal adjustments in the history of humanity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the Bravado is, yes, the most incredible thing

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Speaker 2: in the history of humanity. It's almost kind of trumpion

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Speaker 2: in its sense of Hubris, But it is, as I

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Speaker 2: pointed out, by most people's standards, it is a fairly extraordinary,

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Speaker 2: subtainly the most extraordinary economic experiment going on in the

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Speaker 2: world at the moment. What's happened to him is that

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Speaker 2: he's come in with all these ideas hired by Milton

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Speaker 2: Friedman and people like that. He is furious with the

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Speaker 2: central Bank for printing money, and so he once he

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Speaker 2: came in saying that he wanted to get rid of

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Speaker 2: the Central Bank, and he wanted to get rid of

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Speaker 2: the peso and replace it with the dollar, so that,

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Speaker 2: in other words, the currency would be taken out of

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Speaker 2: the hands of the criminals, as he sees it, and

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Speaker 2: given to somebody he trusts slightly more.

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Speaker 1: John, you asked him about his plans to demolish the

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Speaker 1: central bank, and I was struck by his rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: Wills they make it a crime, I guess humanity?

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Speaker 1: And if he didn't hold back in the way that

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Speaker 1: he talked about economic policy makers, he threatened prison time

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Speaker 1: for a policymaker who would print pasos in the future.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of just the way that he

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Speaker 1: talked about the central bank in the interview?

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Speaker 2: Firstly, it's extraordinary. That thing about inflation is really important.

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Speaker 2: If you talk to people in the street in in Argentina,

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Speaker 2: some of them adore Mela. A lot of other ones

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Speaker 2: just say, look, I voted for him because I just

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Speaker 2: I know the other lotter useless. But the one number

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Speaker 2: that they really all look at is inflation, because that

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Speaker 2: has been ruining their lives for years. So if he

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Speaker 2: can begin to bring that down, then that gives him

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Speaker 2: a bit of credibility with them.

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Speaker 1: The inflation situation in Argentina is so dire, and money

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Speaker 1: loses its value so fast that the moment people get paid,

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Speaker 1: they raise to black market money changers to convert their

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Speaker 1: Argentine pesos to US dollars. Kevin Simoucci is a reporter

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Speaker 1: in our Buenos Aires bureau.

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Speaker 3: So we're here in the streets of Buenos Aires. It's

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Speaker 3: a normal Thursday afternoon during lunch hour, interspersed throughout the streets.

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Speaker 3: Throughout the small size streets, there are several individual money

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Speaker 3: exchange and come your cameo.

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Speaker 4: Here on.

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Speaker 3: Night, and this is basically a way for every day

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Speaker 3: Argentines to have access to the dollar.

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Speaker 1: After the break, we'll hear from someone who voted for

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Speaker 1: Hobvier Milay, hoping the radical reformist would make life better

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Speaker 1: for him and his young family. And we'll hear from

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Speaker 1: lay on his timetable for change. High inflation has made

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Speaker 1: life brutal in Argentina. It's put millions of Argentines out

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Speaker 1: of work, and right now more than half the population

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Speaker 1: lives below the poverty line. One of them is Samir

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Speaker 1: Santa Cruz, a twenty two year old who lives in

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Speaker 1: Buenos Aires.

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Speaker 2: Buen Ataires, Membresendo so is Sameir Santa Gruz bo and Nacandina,

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Speaker 2: Buenos Aires God.

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Speaker 1: Santa Cruz worked as an upholsterer, but when he and

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Speaker 1: his partner had a baby daughter, they moved in with

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Speaker 1: his parents to save money. He's now found a new gig,

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Speaker 1: delivering food by bike. Money is tight and skyrocketing prices

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Speaker 1: have only made things harder. To make sure his daughter

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Speaker 1: has everything she needs, Santa Cruz and his partner started

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Speaker 1: skipping meals, tiding themselves over with mate tea. Don't say

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Speaker 1: breakfast is mate, Lunch is mate, A snack is mate.

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Speaker 1: He and his partner eat only one meal per day.

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Speaker 1: Santa Cruz says it's hard to eat so little, especially

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Speaker 1: when he's riding his bike for hours every day. It's heavy,

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Speaker 1: he says, but the sacrifice is worth it because it

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Speaker 1: gives his daughter three meals a day, and she is

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Speaker 1: the most important. Santa Cruz and his partner want a

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Speaker 1: better life for their daughter. They don't want her to

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Speaker 1: go through the same hardships and insecurity that.

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Speaker 2: Denis.

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Speaker 1: That's why they both voted for Maulay. Santa Cruz hopes

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Speaker 1: the future will unfold like Melais says it will, and

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Speaker 1: that Argentina will be a great country again, one of

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Speaker 1: the best Basincina. This is a country full of people

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Speaker 1: struggling like Samir Santa Cruz, which makes Javier Malay's job

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Speaker 1: very daunting. It's something Bloomberg editor in chief John Micklethwaite

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Speaker 1: asked the president about how much patience do Argentines have.

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Speaker 2: I've just looked at the statistics. They're quite frightening. The

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Speaker 2: average salary in Argentina is at lowest level since two

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Speaker 2: thousand and three. Fifty seven percent of Argentine's live in poverty.

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Speaker 2: Consumer spending dropped twenty three percent in February so far.

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Speaker 2: The interesting thing is your support has stayed high at

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Speaker 2: fifty percent. But do you accept that there is a

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Speaker 2: time limit on how much pain Argentines can keep can

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Speaker 2: take to take these reforms? All right?

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Speaker 4: The first thing is the way we see it. There

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Speaker 4: has been a cultural change in Argentina and most Argentines

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Speaker 4: have understood that the solution is not populism. Losarios today

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Speaker 4: a miserable not through our own is due to twenty

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Speaker 4: years of populism.

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Speaker 1: Mickelthwaite says, Mile has maintained a lot of popular support,

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Speaker 1: and one way he's done that is by drawing a

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Speaker 1: stark contrast between him and his predecessors and the policies

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Speaker 1: they implemented.

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Speaker 2: I think everyone knows that that. You know, the reason

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Speaker 2: why Argentina is in the pickle that it is is

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Speaker 2: not because of him. You know that there are so

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Speaker 2: many things to fix, and if you can just hang

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Speaker 2: onto that idea of endlessly saying, look, I've been defeated

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Speaker 2: by what he calls the cast the blob. I suppose

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Speaker 2: someone else will call it the The establishment is fighting me.

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Speaker 2: They're stopping me to being able to do these things.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm the person who's getting rid of free

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Speaker 2: croissants in the state. I'm the person who's giving away

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Speaker 2: my salary. I'm the person who's doing all these things

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Speaker 2: they never did. Then if he can get to the

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Speaker 2: mid term elections, which in next year, and he can

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Speaker 2: do well, then then he can begin to push through

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Speaker 2: even bigger reforms.

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Speaker 1: It's bound to be a difficult path right now. President

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Speaker 1: Malay may have a lot of popular support, but he

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Speaker 1: has far less political support. Congress blocked Malay's so called

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Speaker 1: Omnibus bill, which was full of even more reforms. In

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Speaker 1: his interview with John, President Malay said he's hoping the

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Speaker 1: political landscape will change.

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Speaker 4: Reforms that I can't push through today are will pushed

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Speaker 4: through after.

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Speaker 2: So really the biggest reforms could come after you at

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Speaker 2: a majority in the midterms.

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Speaker 1: Except the Mulay, the former academic economist, is learning about

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Speaker 1: the challenges of governing.

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Speaker 2: John says, So it's a mixture between talking very tough

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Speaker 2: and actually being pragmatic. And if you want a very

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Speaker 2: sort of easy example of that, it would be China.

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Speaker 1: On the campaign trail, Mulai took a hard line against

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Speaker 1: communist countries. As a candidate. He told Bloomberg that he

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Speaker 1: would not promote relations with any communist countries, including China.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things he's discovered when he's in

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Speaker 2: power is actually, not only did the Chinese I'm quite

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Speaker 2: a lot of money into the Argentine economy. There's also

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Speaker 2: an eighteen billion dollar swap line current, which effectively is

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Speaker 2: a big portion of Argentine's reserves. So for all the Bravura,

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Speaker 2: you know, they hold part of the Argentine economy in

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Speaker 2: their hands, and that means he has to compro a bit.

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Speaker 1: Argentina's political and economic problems are very entrenched, and John

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Speaker 1: knows this well. The interviewed one of Mela's predecessors, Carlos

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Speaker 1: Menem in the nineteen nineties, at a time when the

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Speaker 1: country was also battling high inflation. I wonder, being back,

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Speaker 1: sort of what you've noticed about what's changed and what

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Speaker 1: hasn't about the place? What stood out to you on

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Speaker 1: this return vision.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that stands out about Argentina is

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Speaker 2: the gradual accumulation of problem, the kind of full storms

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Speaker 2: it really is. You know that there is no other

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Speaker 2: country in the world that you can say has fallen

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Speaker 2: as far down the ladder over the past one hundred years.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's you should always remember this. In Argentina

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Speaker 2: was the I think the fourth richest country in the

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Speaker 2: world one hundred years ago. It was a place where

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Speaker 2: if you were an immigrant or you wanted to emigrate

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Speaker 2: from the old world to the new, you would seriously

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Speaker 2: have looked and tried to work out whether Argentina or

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Speaker 2: California was a better bet. And many, many people chose

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Speaker 2: Argentina because it is one of the world's most fertile places.

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Speaker 2: If you have anything to do with agriculture, this is

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Speaker 2: an amazing place. It has many, many, many advantages, right

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Speaker 2: the way down to the world's best soccer team. There

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Speaker 2: are still elements of a middle class life in Argentina

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Speaker 2: which are fantastically attractive to people. This is still a

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Speaker 2: place which many people here see themselves as kind of

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Speaker 2: the European part of Latin America. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: very difficult think of any other country which has had

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Speaker 2: that long and almost semi perpetual element of always choosing

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Speaker 2: the wrong person. And there have been bits. Carlos Menhim

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Speaker 2: was a very obvious example. Menim came in and he

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Speaker 2: sort of, as I remember, he reduced inflation from even

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Speaker 2: larger numbers. That what Mille is now facing. But gradually

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Speaker 2: things began to go wrong again then, and there were

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Speaker 2: elements of corruption, there were elements of outside forces coming

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Speaker 2: to bear and all those sort of things. But this

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Speaker 2: element whereby Argentina has sort of tried everything except sort

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Speaker 2: of confronting some real issues to do with productivity and

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Speaker 2: all those sort of things, and those are now coming back.

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Speaker 2: So yes, when you walk around here there is still

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Speaker 2: amazing things of charm. It feels like the same place

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Speaker 2: only slightly older, and it has not economically has not

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Speaker 2: got better, So that that I think is the kind

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Speaker 2: of that's the reason why Millet is so interesting. It's

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Speaker 2: partly because of what he's trying to do, the extremness,

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Speaker 2: the extraordinaries of with that, but it's also partly there

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Speaker 2: is this amazing country of enormous charm potential with some

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Speaker 2: very highly educated people that should be a kind of

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Speaker 2: load star in this region. And this is, you know,

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Speaker 2: more than even before. It feels a bit like a

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Speaker 2: last chance.

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Speaker 1: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gera.

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Speaker 1: This episode was produced by David Fox. It was edited

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Speaker 1: by Stacy Vanick Smith and Danielle Balby. It was mixed

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