WEBVTT - Steve Pagliuca Talks PE Stakes, Global Sports

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio.

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<v Speaker 2>News as turn to this one. The NFL ushering in

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<v Speaker 2>a new era, voting to allow private equity firms to

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<v Speaker 2>buy stakes of up to ten percent in its franchises.

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<v Speaker 2>The move is expected to attract billions in fresh capital,

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<v Speaker 2>boosting the valuations of teams that had already been surging

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<v Speaker 2>to new highs. Joining us now the co owner of

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<v Speaker 2>the Boston Celtics and Atalanta Football Club, a good friend

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<v Speaker 2>of ours in this program, Steve Paluka. Steve, welcome back

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<v Speaker 2>to the program, Sir. I want to talk about what

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<v Speaker 2>exists now in world sports and what until this moment

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't existed for the NFL. Steve, can you walk us

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<v Speaker 2>through the opportunity here for private equity and the difference

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<v Speaker 2>between just the traditional view of taking a controlling stake

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<v Speaker 2>in a company and the operating business and starting to

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<v Speaker 2>influence the decisions that it makes. What all we boud

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<v Speaker 2>to see take place in the NFL.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's a great question, John. The people are confused

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit.

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<v Speaker 4>In that the private equity model applied to the NFL

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<v Speaker 4>applied to the NBA is very different. It is more

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<v Speaker 4>I would call it an investment fund policy rather than

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<v Speaker 4>private equity policy. Classic private equity firms go in and

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<v Speaker 4>buy companies and then try to grow them and grow

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<v Speaker 4>the revenues and earnings and globalize them. That's not the

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<v Speaker 4>case with sports investments. Sports investments will be done by

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<v Speaker 4>specialized funds like Arcto's Dial Party in existence today, and

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<v Speaker 4>they take limited partnership stakes and they're limited to ten

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<v Speaker 4>percent in the CENTFL deal, I think thirty percent in

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<v Speaker 4>aggregate in the NBA deal, And those would be passive

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<v Speaker 4>stakes really made to open up the market for folks

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<v Speaker 4>that want to invest in sports properties, and they've created

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<v Speaker 4>an asset class. So it's a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 4>misnomer to say it's private equity buying in it's a

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<v Speaker 4>passive limited partnership position so that more people can have

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<v Speaker 4>access enough capital into the booming sports business.

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<v Speaker 2>By improving that equidity for some of these companies, states

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<v Speaker 2>does necessarily increase the valuation. How do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 4>It doesn't necessarily increase the evaluation, but given the values.

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<v Speaker 4>For example, the average NBA team probably twenty years ago

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<v Speaker 4>sold for plus or miles three hundred million. Now it's

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<v Speaker 4>three and a half billion or so the amount of

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<v Speaker 4>capital involved to buy an NBA team was large, so

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<v Speaker 4>it would be helpful in terms of having filling that

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<v Speaker 4>capital gap which used to be filled by wealthy individuals,

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<v Speaker 4>but those numbers are huge at this.

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<v Speaker 1>Point, Steve, what do you think about unlocking value in

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<v Speaker 1>some of these names in terms of where these companies are,

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<v Speaker 1>where these sports teams can be seen. And I'm wondering

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<v Speaker 1>as some of the cable news versus streaming channel kind

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<v Speaker 1>of arrangements are negotiated, do you think that a greater

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<v Speaker 1>degree of pe and involvement or just outside investment involvement

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<v Speaker 1>is going to expedite that shift just simply to the

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<v Speaker 1>higher bidder, not necessarily to some of the classic cable channels.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the leagues really do a great job of

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<v Speaker 4>Adam Silver and we don't have had a great experience

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<v Speaker 4>in the media. And the NBA contract is up to

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<v Speaker 4>like two point six times for the last time. The

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<v Speaker 4>NFL contract also up dramatically. What really is the upside

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<v Speaker 4>is sports have become globalized. Now. When we purchased the

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<v Speaker 4>Celtics in two thousand and two, there was no streaming,

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<v Speaker 4>There was no capability for kind of massive live global distribution,

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<v Speaker 4>and that's changed with streaming, and now we used to

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<v Speaker 4>count fans in the tens of thousands, you can count

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<v Speaker 4>fans and one hundreds of billions and even billions for

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<v Speaker 4>many of the big soccer clubs, the global sports like

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<v Speaker 4>basketball and football. So I think what we're seeing is

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<v Speaker 4>a long term trend of globalization of sports. And it's

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<v Speaker 4>one of the few programs that aggregate eyeballs and that's

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<v Speaker 4>very valuable to the new media players and the old

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<v Speaker 4>media players, and that's why you're seeing such increases in

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<v Speaker 4>the rights.

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<v Speaker 1>I like the uan global well. I know that you

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<v Speaker 1>go global and you have gun global in particular in Italy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know that John is very jealous and talks

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<v Speaker 1>about it all the time, and I think that we

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<v Speaker 1>all really want your life. I do think, Stee, if

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<v Speaker 1>there's this question of whether you like international sports, European

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<v Speaker 1>soccer still as really the mainstay. I see John kind

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<v Speaker 1>of sighing with this frustration as I call it soccer

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<v Speaker 1>rather than football. But I'm just wondering whether you want

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<v Speaker 1>to stay with that kind of theme or whether you

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<v Speaker 1>want to head back and invest more in the US

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<v Speaker 1>after the Celtics investment, as well as others.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think everything is situational.

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<v Speaker 4>Investing is all about the price you pay and the

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<v Speaker 4>trajectory you think the business can go on. And so

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<v Speaker 4>at Wanta, we thought that was a fantastic franchise. We

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<v Speaker 4>have a great partner, the Pacassi family, and so far

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<v Speaker 4>that's worked out. There's a lot of luck involved, but

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<v Speaker 4>we'll be very lucky to win the European Championship. So

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<v Speaker 4>it's really a situational you meet to look at clubs.

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<v Speaker 4>We look at clubs all over the world in football,

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<v Speaker 4>other sports, and it's all about where you see the

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<v Speaker 4>projective going and with the appreciate being to get there.

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<v Speaker 2>Is Well, Steve, let's talk about the trajectory and we

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<v Speaker 2>can compare and contrast global sports with what's happened in

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<v Speaker 2>the NFL. I was looking at the Nielsen ratings ranking

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<v Speaker 2>the one hundred most watched programs in twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Ninety three percent of them ninety three percent of them

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<v Speaker 2>NFL games, which Steve is absolutely phenomenally. I have just

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<v Speaker 2>dominated the highest rating TV shows in this country now

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<v Speaker 2>for the last couple of years. Can you say the

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<v Speaker 2>same thing about global sports when we talk about European football, Steve,

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<v Speaker 2>have we hit a plateau when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 2>valuation of TV rights? Do you see any way of

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<v Speaker 2>unlock in more value.

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<v Speaker 4>I think for Joe, we talked five years ago and

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<v Speaker 4>ten years ago we thought we've reached plateaus, but we

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<v Speaker 4>haven't reached plateaus. And again, the reach is growing because

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<v Speaker 4>of streaming and multiple channel capabilities, and they've gotten more

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<v Speaker 4>sophisticated about how to buy the packages up. So I

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<v Speaker 4>don't think we've seen seen a plateau because it's so

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<v Speaker 4>valuable to read these audiences. And the NFL has done

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<v Speaker 4>a fantastic job. They have a league that has parody,

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<v Speaker 4>they have games that are important every week. The NBA

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<v Speaker 4>has done a fantastic job with growing viewership and growing

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<v Speaker 4>access to the game, And so I don't think we've

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think we've seen the end of that yet.

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<v Speaker 4>Because the global the worldwide Internet companies, the facebooks and

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<v Speaker 4>the Amazons and the old media, they need this programming.

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<v Speaker 3>And they need those eyeballs. And as you pointed out,

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<v Speaker 3>that's incredible.

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<v Speaker 4>In the USA, ninety three out of one hundred programs

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<v Speaker 4>were sports related NFL related.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you say the same thing about European football.

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<v Speaker 3>I think European football is continuing.

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<v Speaker 4>They continue to change the format of the Champions League,

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<v Speaker 4>UEFA Syria, make the broadcast schedules better. So I think

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<v Speaker 4>right now we're a little bit of a lull meteorites

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<v Speaker 4>in European football, basically because the streaming wars just ended

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<v Speaker 4>or didn't end, or it really ended six months ago,

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<v Speaker 4>a year ago, when people realize that there's too many

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<v Speaker 4>streaming channels, too many options, and so everybody's cut back

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<v Speaker 4>on programming. So's we've had these cycles. There's a kind

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<v Speaker 4>of a momentary wall where there's bundling and unbundling, and

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<v Speaker 4>right now things are less robust. But I think it

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<v Speaker 4>will come back when there's mergers and acquisitions and you

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<v Speaker 4>come back to four or five global players who were

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<v Speaker 4>competing for these forced properties.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's finish on acquisitions and your interest your name

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<v Speaker 2>was associated with Chelsea Football Club a few years back, Steve,

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<v Speaker 2>I just wonder whether you still have that interest in

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<v Speaker 2>acquiring another club in European football.

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<v Speaker 4>We were looking at different clubs in European football and

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<v Speaker 4>we think it's it's continued to grow. It's a great opportunity.

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<v Speaker 4>There's lots of things you can do to improve the

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<v Speaker 4>product and stand the reach, as I said, and so yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>you think it's very interesting here, Steve.

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<v Speaker 2>Could you share with US cities, places, countries just a

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<v Speaker 2>better idea of the clubs you have looked at?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think there are right now.

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<v Speaker 4>Meteorites are down in France and so there's some interesting

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<v Speaker 4>clubs in France that need capital and to grow and

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<v Speaker 4>come back and fresh market it will come back. There

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<v Speaker 4>are some ission opportunities to play, as you've seen in.

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<v Speaker 3>The UK, to move teams from the one division to another.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think France, UK and even some things that same.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you in any active conversations right now, Steve? I

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<v Speaker 2>imagine if you while you can't reveal the details of them,

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<v Speaker 2>but are you in any right now?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we're talking to several clubs right now and you

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<v Speaker 4>don't know if they think.

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<v Speaker 3>Come to fruition. But we can't talk about who those are.

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<v Speaker 4>But but there's there's several clubs that we're talking to

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<v Speaker 4>as we speak.

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<v Speaker 2>What's this space, Stave, It's going to see as always

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<v Speaker 2>when that news comes. Looking forward to catching up with you,

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<v Speaker 2>Steve Paliuca that the Boston Celtics co owner on some

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<v Speaker 2>of the shifting rules, stay side with the UNFL and

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<v Speaker 2>the opportunities elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to see a day in his life.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say, Vizic is that how many games

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<v Speaker 1>does he go to? Is it every night? You know what?

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<v Speaker 1>He cheers for them all? Would he ever buy two

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<v Speaker 1>teams in the same sport? And what would that be

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<v Speaker 1>if they ever went against each other?

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<v Speaker 2>Football? Apparently?

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<v Speaker 1>People exactly how does that work? I mean do you

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<v Speaker 1>basically root for both of them?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you just avoid?

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<v Speaker 1>Do not have a favorite child?

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<v Speaker 2>Lots of questions, amazing, just amicing. Nuff love stay